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    2.47 MB The '34 Putsch Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)20:55 No.16627032  
    1914: National Security League forms.
    1915: Preparedness Movement begins. American Defense Society forms. The Second Klan forms, largely based on the film "The Birth of a Nation".
    1917: The American Protective League forms. The United States entry into the Great War. The Justice Department deputizes the APL and other vigilante groups (including the Klan) to assist in strikebreaking and the arrest of leftists, pacifists, and other suspected subversives. Anti-war IWW union activist Joe Hill lynched in Montana.
    1918: The Great War ends. American Legion forms, begins vigilante activities against leftists and trade unionists.
    1919: The Seattle General Strike. April Anarchist Bombings. Centralia Massacre. The Red Summer and Chicago Race Riots. The Coal Strike. The Red Scare, Palmer Raids begin.
    1920: Palmer Raids end.
    1929: Black Thursday and the Stock Market Crash, signifying the beginning of the Great Depression.The Workers Unity League forms in Canada.
    1930: Benito Mussolini speaks at the American Legion conference. The Great Dustbowl begins.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)20:55 No.16627045
    1932: Bonus Army Massacre. Roosevelt/Garner defeat incumbents Hoover/Curtis in the Presidential election. Bonus Army Corps forms. Canada begins Unemployment Relief Camps in the West, and the Workers Unity League begins to organize within them.
    1933: The New Deal. Corporal Warren Grimm elected National Commander of the American Legion. The Phalanx forms. The Liberty League forms. Congress divides into New Deal and National (anti-New-Deal) Coalitions. Mass unionization of industrial workers. End of the gold standard and establishment of fiat currency. The Socialist Party and the ACLU agree to a Popular Front alliance with the Communists in light of the rise of fascism in the United States. The Workers' Ex-Servicemen's League spreads among the working class.
    1934: The May Strikes. The July 4th Coup. Formation of the Toledo, Minneapolis, and Chicago Communes. West Coast Strikes turn into a Revolution. Declaration of the Continuity Government of the United States. Declaration of the American National Government.
    1935: FDR dies in Nationalist custody and the Presidency is officially transferred to Douglas MacArthur in the Nationalist camp. The Nationalists cut off Northeast and Central Loyalists. The Loyalists make their drive to the Gulf Coast. Loyalist President Cordell Hull is assassinated, Secretary of State Henry Morgenthau Jr. assumes office.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:03 No.16627130
    The Second American Civil War, as of late 1935 -
    The American National Government/American National Army (President Douglas MacArthur)
    The Continuity Government of the United States/United Army of the Republic (President Henry Morgenthau Jr.)

    The Philippines Revolt -
    Governor-General Frank Murphy's Loyalists and the Philippine Army versus the Nationalist-declared US garrisons.

    The Hispaniola War: The Dominican Republic vs. Haiti

    The Second Christero War: The Calles Administration vs. The Mexican National Party vs. The Christeros; cause of war: assassination of President Cardenas, seizure of the presidency by former President Calles
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:05 No.16627143
    Enlistee pool: Regulars, Reserves, National Guard, State Guard, Irregulars, State or Local Militia, Paramilitaries
    Officer pool: Regs, Reserves, NGuard, SGuard, Vets, Civilian Military Trainees, Militia Officers

    United Army of the Republic: The Fourth, Fifth, and Seventh Armies (composed of Regs, Reserves, NGuard). New Deal Coalition controlled State Guards, State Militia, and Local Militias. American Workers Union Local Militia. Popular Front Paramilitary units. British regulars (The Democratic Guards), no infantry. French regulars (The Garde Republicaine), no infantry. American War Volunteers (Trained foreign volunteer infantry). International Brigades (Trained foreign volunteer infantry), in Comintern or Socialist-and-Labour International flavors.

    The American National Army: The First, Second, Third, and Sixth Armies (composed of Regs, Reserves, NGuard). State Guards that declared Nationalist. State Militia supporting Nationalist Governors before the consolidation under military-governors. Conservative Coalition controlled Local Militia. Liberty League controlled Local Militia. Christian Front, KKK, and Silver Legion locals. The American Legion Paramilitary. The National Police Paramilitary. The Eagle Korps (German regulars, no infantry), Corps of Volunteer Troops (Italian trained volunteer infantry), and the White Division (trained foreign infantry volunteers).

    The Red Guard:
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:05 No.16627151
    The Loyalist Movement -
    The New Deal Coalition: Pro-New-Deal Democratic and Republican officeholders and city machines, liberal third parties like the Progressives, Farmer-Labor, and Share Our Wealth. Community groups like the Catholic League, Negro Communities League, and Jewish Defense League. The increasingly defunct American Federation of Labor.
    The American Workers Union: The industrial unions, led by John L. Lewis of the United Mine Workers in Central and Sidney Hillman of the Amalgamated Clothing Workers in the Northeast. The Toledo (American Workers Party), Minneapolis (Communist League of America, Trotskyists), and Chicago (IWW) Communes. Workers Councils of non-union workers, unemployed, farmers, sailors, students, and academics organized during the May Strikes and beyond.
    The Popular Front: Anti-fascist coalition of the Socialist (Norman Thomas), Communist (Earl Browder), and libertarian left (Roger Nash, ACLU) parties/movements; with combined organizations like the National Negro Congress and American Students Union. Tied to the Popular Front movement worldwide and supported by the International Democracy League, a PF support organization that channels support from the Socialist-and-Labour International and the Communist international among others.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:06 No.16627157
    The National Movement -
    The Conservative Coalition: The political coalition of Anti-New-Deal Democrats and Republicans in Congress and other political offices.
    The Liberty League: Anti-New-Deal organization formed by former Democratic National Committee chairman (also a board member of GM and DuPont), Irenee DuPont, and 223 others - mostly leading industrialists.
    The Legion/Phalanx: National Commander Warren Grimm's Legion. The Phalanx, the fascist brotherhood for military officers formed by George S. Patton.
    Other Fascist Groups: The KKK (leaders unknown), Christian Front (Father Charles Coughlin and Gerald L.K. Smith), and Silver Legion (William Dudley Pelley).

    The Westcoast Soviets -
    >> CGUS Federal Gov (Indianapolis) Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:08 No.16627180
    President: Henry Morgenthau Jr. (FDR's Secretary of the Treasury, Hull's Secretary of State)
    Secretary of State: Eleanor Roosevelt
    Secretary of War: George Dern
    Secretary of the Treasury and the U.S. Bank: James Warburg (Banker, member of FDR's Brains Trust)
    Attorney General: Harlan F. Stone (member of the Three Musketeers pro-New-Deal Supreme Court justices)
    Postmaster General: James Farley (the de facto National Committee chair of the New Deal Coalition)
    Secretary of the Navy: Joe Kennedy Sr. (transferred from the State department due to his experience in the shipyard industry)
    Secretary of the Interior: Harold L. Ickes
    Secretary of the Agriculture: Henry A. Wallace
    Secretary of Commerce: Adolf A. Berle (Sociologist, member of FDR's Brains Trust)
    Secretary of Labor: Frances Perkins
    Chairman of the National Loyalist Council: Samuel Dickstein (Head of the House Unamerican Activities Committee and anti-fascist well before the coup)
    Director of the Public Service Corps: Harry Hopkins (Trusted friend and advisor of FDR and leading relief worker)
    Director of the Office of Resettlement and Reconstruction: Rexford Tugwell (Agricultural economist and member of FDR's Brains Trust)
    Director of the Office of Intelligence: Herbert Yardley (head of Signals intelligence during the Great War who was ostracized for trying to found an intelligence agency)
    Other Notables: Lee Pressman in Agriculture, the Hiss brothers in State
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:09 No.16627187
    Regional Governments
    New England: Governor-General Herbert Lehman (capital: Boston)
    Central: Governor-General Henry Horner (capital: Springfield, Illinois)
    Gulf: Governor-General Huey Long (capital: New Orleans)
    Sierra: Governor-General Henry Blood (capital: Salt Lake City)
    Alaska: Governor-General John Weir Troy (capital: Juneau)
    Puerto Rico: Governor-General Theodore Roosevelt Jr. (capital: San Juan)
    New York City: Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia
    Panama Canal Zone: Governor Julian Larcomb Schley (capital: Balboa)

    The United Army of the Republic
    Chiefs of Staff
    Chief of Staff: General Peyton C. March
    Chief of the Army: General Adna R. Chaffee Jr.
    Chief of the Navy: Admiral William Standley
    Chief of the Air Corps: Oscar M. Westover
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:10 No.16627199
    Main Commands
    The Fourth Army (hq: Boston) (co: )
    The Fifth Army (hq: Columbus) (co: )
    The Seventh Army (hq: Memphis) (co: ) (a new command)
    The NYC Detachment (hq: Fort Jay on Governor's Island) (co: Lt. Gen. Omar Bradley )
    The Sierra Detachment (hq: Salt Lake City) (co: )
    The Alaska Detachment (hq: Juneau) (co: )
    The Puerto Rico Detachment (hq: San Juan) (co: )
    The Panama Detachment (hq: Canal Zone) (co: Admiral Frank B. Upham)

    The Atlantic Group (hq: Boston) (co: Admiral Richard Leigh)
    The Gulf Group (hq: New Orleans) (co: Admiral Montgomery M. Taylor)
    The Panama Group (hq: Canal Zone) (co: Admiral Frank B. Upham)

    The Air Corps (hq: Patterson Field, Ohio) (co: General Frank Maxwell Andrews)
    The Service Forces (hq: Indianapolis) (co: Brehon B. Somervell)
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:12 No.16627208
    Subordinate Commands
    - Lt. Gen. Smedley Butler and elements of the 5th Army in Cleveland, putting pressure on Detroit and defending Pittsburgh.
    - Lt. Gen. Dwight Eisenhower diplomatically handling the coordination of elements of the 5th Army with the Minneapolis Communards.
    - Lt. Gen. George C. Marshall and elements of the 5th Army in St.Louis, defending the vulnerable Western flank of the Central Region.
    - Lt. Gen. Walter Krueger and elements of the 7th Army in New Orleans attempting to keep the Nationalists out of Houston.
    - Lt. Gen. Alex Vandegrift and elements of the 7th Army in Tallahassee overseeing the liberation of Florida.
    - 16th Pursuit Group, Air Corps at Albrook Field in the Canal Zone
    - 6th Group (Observation), Air Corps at France Field in the Canal Zone
    - 9th Observation Group, Air Corps at Mitchel Field on Long Island
    - 1st Auxillary Group, Air Corps at Patterson Field, Ohio; a new command
    - Air Corps Materiel Command, at Patterson Field, Ohio
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:13 No.16627222
    The New Deal Coalition
    Pro-New-Deal Democratic and Republican officeholders and party organizations, city political machines, liberal groups, academia, relief and social workers, religious and ethnic minorities (including groups such as the Catholic League and the Jewish Defense League), and the American Federation of Labor (increasingly irrelevant due to their hardline anti-commnist stance and official condemnation of the general strike); as well as progressive third parties (Progressive, Share Our Wealth, Farmer-Labor) and Congressman Dickstein's Loyalty Council and related anti-fa movement.

    The American Workers Union
    The Industrial Unions
    The mine, mill, smelting, oil, clothing, and typist unions that left the AFL over the May Strikes; the locals involved in the May Strikes defecting from their conservative union leadership such as the teamsters and the longshoremen; and the agricultural, auto, steel, rubber, electrical, radio, and machine workers who had been organizing since the change in labor laws in '33. Joined after the Coup by normally conservative craft unions that refused to follow the AFL party line under Matthew Woll and cooperate with the Nationalists, such as the rail brotherhoods. President John L. Lewis, from the United Mine Workers, runs the Industrials in the Central and Gulf Regions; Vice President Sidney Hillman, from the Amalgamated Clothing Workers, is the chief officer in the Northeast.

    The Popular Front
    The anti-fascist coalition that formed in late '33/early '34.
    - The Socialist Party, under Chairman Norman Thomas
    - The Communist Party, under General Secretary Earl Browder
    - The ACLU, under Chairman Roger Nash, including many other anarchist and libertarian left groups
    - Popular Front groups such as the National Negro Congress, the American Students Union, and others.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:13 No.16627223
    But what's the appeal? Silly BS political excuse to get an inter-war world war 1.5 in America?
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:13 No.16627230
    Am I the only one who thinks this would be an incredibly cool Hearts of Iron mod?
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:14 No.16627231
    The Worker Councils
    The syndicates formed in the initial struggle following the Coup by the trade unionists and Popular Front organizers with the groups they were already organizing during the May Strikes: the non-unionized workers, the farmers, the unemployed, sailors, students and academics.

    The Communes
    - Toledo: The city-wide industrial occupation during the May Strikes, began by the factory unions and the American Workers Party with the organization of the unemployed, turned into this following the Coup.
    - Minneapolis: The city-wide industrial occupation during the May Strikes, began by the teamsters and the Communist League of America with the organization of the farmers, turned into this following the Coup.
    - Chicago: This was formed following the Coup when many previously conservative unions staged strikes to harry the Nationalists, with the rail brotherhoods refusing to transport Nationalist men and materiel and beginning a general strike and city-wide occupation in Chicago.

    Foreign Support
    British, French, and other loans and materiel support. British and French military volunteers (air, armor, artillery; no infantry); the Democratic Guards and Garde Republicain, respectively.

    Aid raised from individuals, corporations, and small nations by the American War Relief organization, also called the British Relief in the United States. The American War Volunteers, a private organization formed by retired military officers and adventurers from European nations, raising Volunteer infantry units.

    The International Democracy League, a unified Popular Front umbrella organization for anti-fascist foreign aid. IDL military volunteers; the International Brigades, in Second International (funded and raised by respectable labour, socialist, and social democratic parties and trade unions internally) and Comintern (funded by the Soviet Union, raised from various communist parties, and supported by Red Aid) varieties.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:15 No.16627250
    Why not? It's more fun than the 30,000 "BUT WHAT IF THE SOUTH WON!" alt-histories. Let's you play around with Spanish Civil War like intrigue and brutality and romance. 30s wargaming?

    It's cool if it's not your bag, but I find it pretty neat.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:17 No.16627262

    I recommend, with additional victorious CP in WWI goodness, Kaiserreich mod for HoI2. It has a US Civil War where you can kill syndicalists as MacArthur's coup government or vice versa with Jack Reed; or play as Huey Long's quasi-fascists.

    This is different, but - while their ACW scenario is a little weak - the mod as a whole is dynamite stuff. I would more suggest playing the Commune of France, Union of Britain, Germany, France in exile in Africa, or Britain in exile in Canada though.

    Also, there is a British 30's civil war wargame background/uniform/equipment list (no wargame rules, basically) thing called A Very British Civil War, where King Edward VIII doesn't abdicate, Mosley is his PM, and the English countryside is a clusterfuck of Tories, Fascists, Yorkists (want Prince George), Anglicans, Socialist, Commies, etc.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:18 No.16627279
    The American National Government

    The Commander-in-Chief
    Secretary of General Affairs (1934), Vice President (1934), President and Supreme Commander (1935): Douglas MacArthur (Former Chief of Staff, New Deal opponent, infamous for his handling of the Bonus Army Massacre incident in '32; allied with the conspirators during the May Strikes and was instrumental in the July 4th coup-detat and the organization of the National Army).

    The Presidential Advisory Board -

    Minister of Domestic Affairs: Betrand Snell (Leader of the Republicans in the House of Representatives and leading New Deal opponent.)

    Minister of Foreign Affairs: J.P. Morgan Jr. (Heir to the Morgan corporate empire and one of the world's most powerful bankers, the man who helped push the U.S. into the Great War to aid British industrial interests and who is one of the biggest lenders to Germany and Europe as a whole. In actual history he secured favorable loans for fascist Italy during this period.)

    Minister of Armaments: Alfred P. Sloane (President of General Motors, pioneer of industrial techniques such as planned obsolescence, and a founding Liberty Leaguer.)

    Minister of Security: J. Edgar Hoover (Young director of the FBI and leading Nationalist in the former Justice Department.)

    Minister of Research: Irenee du Pont (Heir to the DuPont corporation, world leaders in materials science. One of the 25 founding national executives of the anti-New-Deal American Liberty League in '33.)
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:19 No.16627286
    Minister of Resources: J. Howard Pew (President of Sun Oil and founding Liberty Leaguer).

    Minister of Public Information: Robert R. McCormick (Conservative newspaper mogul, exiled Chicagoan, and now minister of propaganda).

    Director of the National Recovery Administration: Henry Ford (Aged but still going strong, hardline on anti-trade-unionism and anti-communism, but also pragmatic on matters of economic management; the ideal choice for keeping the National economy running smoothly.)

    Congressional Advisors
    - Josaiah Bailey (North Carolina Democrat, arch-conservative)
    - Arthur H. Vandenberg (Michigan Republican, leading light of the next generation of conservatives)
    - William McAdoo (Famous Democratic senator from California, who was the choice of conservatives for the Democratic nomination in '28 and to defeat FDR in '32. Ally of the Klan.)
    - Harry F. Byrd (Virginia aristocrat, newspaperman, Democratic senator, and KKK-ally.)

    Chairman of the Board of Governors: Theodore Bilbo (Former Governor of Missippi made Nationalist Governor in-exile; also the leading proponent of the KKK in the Nationalist camp.)
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:20 No.16627296
    National Commander of the American Legion: Warren Grimm (Corporal in the Great War, helped push the Legion to fascism by 1930 and was elected despite his low former rank on a national socialist platform in 1933. One of the architects of the coup along with Patton's Phalanx and the Liberty League, he cemented his power base by leading the march on Washington that gave MacArthur the opportunity to raise his troops only to then turn them on the capital. Considered a useful idiot back in '34, someone the industrialists and Rotary Club type reactionaries after MacArthur's heart could buy off, his growing power - with his aging Legion veterans acting as officers for ever-growing ranks of young blackshirt recruits - troubles even the Supreme Commander.)

    Other Notables -

    Hal Roach (Public Information): Founding Liberty Leauger, former Hollywood film producer, now president of the National Motion Pictures Association making propaganda films.

    Howard Hughes (Armaments and Public Information): Flamboyant West Coast industrialist, president of Hughes Tool Co., Hughes Aircraft, and RKO motion pictures.

    Wallace Carothers (Research): Leading industrial chemist, inventor of neoprene and polyester, formerly at DuPont corporation.

    Edsel Ford (Governor of Michigan): President of Ford Motors, his father's company.

    William Randolph Hearst (Public Information): Newspaper mogul who helped start the Spanish-American war, helped FDR to get elected only to turn on him over his handling of the Strikes.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:21 No.16627312
    Matthew Woll (Industrial Association): AFL vice president who supported pro-Fascist groups in their efforts against domestic and international communism. Currently a member of the Nationalist government approved Industrial Association, a fascist style vertically integrated union consisting of employers and their employees.

    The Christian Front: National Socialist organization led by Father Charles Coughlin and Gerald L.K. Smith. Too Catholic for the also anti-semitic Klan allies in Congress to use them to get a jump up into the government, and too populist for the corporate pro-fascists to be comfortable with having too close.

    The Silver Legion: Fanatically anti-semitic national socialist paramilitary led by spiritualist William Dudley Pelley. Also called the Silver Shirts.

    The Friends of the New Germany: The Nazi Party affiliate in the United States, led by German immigrant Fritz Kuhn.

    Charles Lindbergh: Aviation hero, pro-Fascist. Currently in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs as well as a frequently used figure in Public Information propaganda, and national leader of the All-American Youth, the Nationalist youth league.

    The American Protective League, National Security League, and American Defense Society: Great War era vigilante organizations that have been providing manpower and intelligence for the Justice Department on trade unionists and radicals ever since. National socialist in a traditionalist, war preparedness oriented way amicable to the array of traditionalist forces that be but still full of Great War era hate for the Germans; and thus more trouble than they worth having any more power than their current deputized state for
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:23 No.16627328
    The National Army

    The General Staff -

    Chief of Staff: Douglas MacArthur

    Aide to the Chief: Colonel Robert Serling Clark (Heir to the Singer fortune and Liberty Leaguer, former Army lieutenant, member of the Phalanx fascist officers' organization.)

    Chief of the Army: General John L. Hines (A retired Chief of Staff of the Army.)

    Chief of the Navy: Admiral David F. Sellers (Commander of the U.S. Fleet before the coup.)

    Chief of the Air Corps: General Benjamin Foulois (Formerly a Major General and commander of the U.S. Army Air Corps.)
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:25 No.16627358
    Main Commands
    Supreme Command of the National Forces: Field Marshal MacArthur

    The First Army (hq: Atlanta) (co: officially General Hugh Drum, in reality Field Marshal MacArthur)
    The Second Army (hq: Atlanta) (co: General Charles P. Summerall)
    The Third Army (hq: Phoenix) (co: General Malin Craig)
    The Sixth Army (hq: Denver) (co: General George S. Patton)
    The Michigan Garrison (hq: Detroit) (co: )
    The Hawaii Garrison (hq: Honolulu) (co: Admiral Joseph M. Reeves)
    The Caribbean Garrison (hq: Havana) (co: Col. Fulgencio Baptista)

    The U.S. Fleet (hq: Norfolk) (co: Admiral Luke McNamee)
    Battle Force (hq: Honolulu) (co: Admiral Joseph M. Reeves)

    The Air Corps (hq: Fort Bliss, Texas) (co: General Henry Arnold)

    Subordinate Commands
    - 3rd Group (Attack), Air Corps at Fort Bliss Texas
    - 5th Group (Composite), Air Corps at Luke Field, Hawaii
    - 1st Group (Pursuit), Air Corps Selfridge Field, Michigan
    - 2cd Group (Bombardment), Air Corps at Kelly Field, Texas
    - 7th Group (Observation), Air Corps at Langley Field, Virginia
    - 18th Pursuit Group, Air Corps at Wheeler Field, Hawaii
    - 12th Observation Group, Air Corps at Brooks Field, San Antonio
    - 8th Pursuit Group, Air Corps at Langley Field, Virginia
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:26 No.16627367
    National Territory

    Military Districts
    1st District (Military Governor: Field Marshal MacArthur) (capital: D.C.)
    2cd District (Military Governor: General Summerall) (capital: Atlanta)
    3rd District (Military Governor: General Craig) (capital: Phoenix)
    4th District (Military Governor: General Patton) (capital: Denver)
    5th District (Governor-General: Edsel Ford) (capital: Detroit)
    6th District (Governor-General: Admiral Reeves) (capital: Honolulu)
    7th District (President: Fulgencio Baptista) (capital: Havana)

    Foreign Support
    German, Italian, and international corporate (such as Rio Tinto) loans and materiel support, provided through the Paladin shell corporation and the Anti-Komintern international organization primarily. German military volunteers, the Eagle Korps; and Italian military volunteers, the Corps of Volunteer Troops.

    The White Division, formed by volunteer infantry from France (the Joan of Arc battalion raised by the ultra-nationalist Croix de Feu party), Britain (British Union of Fascist blackshirts), Greece, Belgium, and other nations.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:43 No.16627512
    I've neglected the history of the Westcoast, haven't developed in my notes yet how it went from the Strikes to a revolution following the coup. I have a general idea - in real life the Westcoast Longshore Strikes did cause a general strike city-wide throughout San Fran, and shut down the ports throughout the West Coast of the U.S. It was pretty damn major, some people wanted FDR to take the battleship he was riding on from Hawaii and go guns blazing into Frisco harbor.

    So the coast-wide port occupations could be coast-wide city occupations, but the California State Guard do have machine gun trucks and almost used them in real life. I'm thinking of speeding up Upton Sinclair (Socialist who ran for California governor) 's EPIC (End Poverty in California) Democrats-backed run for governor to '32; not very realistic but it helps set a leashed rather than devastating response to the strikers turning into revolutionaries when the Coup occurs.

    You should really read the history of the 34 Westcoast Strike: when things got really bad in July, the police and the American Legion staged anonymous vigilante raids on the Worker's Forum, the hall of the communist maritime workers union (ironically not the ones staging the strikes), and the Worker's Servicemen's Association - which I didn't know existed, but is cool detail, a red veterans group as opposed to my fictional merely democratic/anti-fascist Bonus Army Corps veterans group that forms after our world's Bonus Army March turns into a Massacre when things go horribly wrong as they are being routed.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:50 No.16627568
         File1318643450.gif-(30 KB, 443x600, AmericanLegion.gif)
    30 KB
    In general, reading the history of the Justice Dep.'s use of vigilante groups and of anti-sedition laws during the Great War - and reading up on the Palmer Raids - really helps me see a 1930's civil war as being something that was waiting to happen, building up, that isn't arbitrary.

    In real life the Depression turned the fascist leaning American Legion, who originally saw themselves in a fascist style light as being an anti-classism radical centrist movement trying to abolish class struggle through unity and synarchy (as shown in this political cartoon) into - in many cases - liberal Democrats. The same guys who acted out vigilante attacks on the Wobblies and others in the 1920's became members of Unemployed Leagues and enrolled in Relief programs.

    But what if they didn't?

    In fact, perhaps the most central historical alteration in this setting is that Warren Grimm, a guy who died in the 1919 Centralia Massacre in Washington State in real life, survives. He survives a Wobblie bullet in the gut while he and his Legion brothers were attempting to break in and beat them and chase them out of town.

    Corporal Grimm (no parallels here at all *whistles*) survives, and becomes the fiery voice of fascism in Legion politics. In real life the Legion was still asking for Mussolini to come give a speech to their convention as late as 1930, in this world that happens. Fascism becomes more popular as the 30's roll on, not less.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:54 No.16627593
    What the heck was 1930s tech like?
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:57 No.16627619
         File1318643874.png-(108 KB, 359x302, 1307654059734.png)
    108 KB
    God, I love this project so much. I'm ashamed there's nothing I can do to help.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)21:59 No.16627628
    I also have always been fascinated by the reasons why American fascism didn't unify, which is why it would need a strong voice in the military and the support of the normal reactionary establishment ("Rotarians", as typical reactionary type dictator American scenarios are sometimes called; specifically i read a review of Lewis Sinclair's "It Can't Happen Here" that insists that dictator Buzz Winthrop is not a fascist, but just an old-style Rotarian, in reference to the conservative establishment group in towns across America, the old boys club, the Rotary Club).

    The KKK hated Catholics too much to team up with non-KKK anti-semites like Father Coughlin's Christian Front (a Catholic priest, the KKK would be incensed). But both did have national socialist characteristics - being ruthlessly anti-left while at the same time decrying corporations, the KKK in a Southern anti-Northern-corporate-Republicans populism and Coughlin in a warped message of social justice. Nazi groups like the Silver Legion seem to have been less anti-Catholic than the KKK, with Gerald L.K. Smith working with Coughlin even while he was courting the support of Wiliam Dudley Pelley's Silver Legion - the most Nazi-like organization in the U.S.

    There was also the German National Socialist party's wing in the U.S. - they became the German American Bund later on, but by 34 they were still the Friends of the New Germany. The Bund held a frightening rally in Madison Square Garden in the late 30's that was filled with people; their rally for "True Americanism".
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:01 No.16627659
    So how is this gaming related? Looks like Anti-american wish fulfillment alternate history writefaggotry to me.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:02 No.16627663

    Then you had pro-corporate amateur fascists like the Liberty League and the Business Plotters; men like Serling who wanted to stage a coup against FDR to make the nation safe for business once more. An interesting note on this phenomenon is that big business was perfectly willing to accept Depression response measures like the actually pretty fascistic National Recovery Adminstration, a bad idea that FDR later revoked in favor of a more decentralized approach, they just wanted to run it themselves. They actually liked price-fixing as it helped them grow monopolies and not be punished for inefficiency, while choking out small business.

    So we can see how even the ordinary conservatives in a Nationalist government could take on fascistic/right-populist aspects, just as the German cartels did when the Nazis took power.


    The first frozen packaged foods (veggies). Radios. An ossified Great War style military in the United States divided hopelessly into tiny garrisons throughout multi-state regions (so a single division could be spread throughout multiple states, with some garrisons being as small as a battalion or less and only assembled/organized/active on paper).

    Companies still selling "radiation remedies" that killed a bunch of people.

    Penicilin not yet invented, it will be soon though.

    Cars are classy, there are automatic handguns and sub-machine guns more advanced than a Tommy Gun, but Tommies are most common.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:02 No.16627664
    Supposedly it'd be a setting idea or potential wargame.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:05 No.16627692

    "The kitchens of the 1930s were often brightly colored with cheerful accessories and a more modern layout. Built-in cabinetry and countertops replaced the freestanding tables and Hoosiers of the 1920s. Smaller homes required efficient, space saving storage ideas some of which are collected here.

    We've concentrated our efforts on collecting images and information that focused on the middle class. The majority of homeowners read magazines like The American Home, Better Homes & Gardens, Ladies Home Journal, and Woman's Home Companion. The upper end of the population read magazines like Home & Garden and House Beautiful.

    Almost everyone felt the effects of the Depression. Magazines cut back on the use of color; most advertisers that were extravagant with color illustrations during the 1920s appeared only in black and white or reduced their frequency.

    Kitchens that appeared in color provide some hint of what home owners were inspired by. Companies that appeared consistently included Sealex and Armstrong linoleum and it's from those sources that some of the most colorful and interesting images are found."
    - http://www.antiquehomestyle.com/inside/kitchen/1930s/index.htm

    Also, DuPont has invented nylon and other synthetic fabrics by this point, so I imagine they were the hot new thing in the 30's.
    >> Technology advancements of the 30's, from Wikipedia Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:07 No.16627703
    On March 8, 1930, the first frozen foods of Clarence Birdseye were sold in Ringfield, Massachusetts, United States.
    Ub Iwerks produced the first Color Sound Cartoon in 1930, a Flip the Frog cartoon entitled: "Fiddlesticks";
    In 1930, Warner Brothers released the first All-Talking All-Color wide-screen movie, Song of the Flame; in 1930 alone, Warner Brothers released ten All-Color All-Talking feature movies in Technicolor and scores of shorts and features with color sequences;
    Air mail service across the Atlantic Ocean began;
    Radar was invented, known as RDF (Radio Direction Finding), such as in British Patent GB593017 by Robert Watson-Watt in 1938;
    In 1933, the 3M company marketed Scotch Tape;
    In 1931, RCA Victor introduced the first long-playing phonograph record.
    In 1935, the British London and North Eastern Railway introduced the A4 Pacific, designed by Nigel Gresley. Just three years later, one of these, No. 4468 Mallard, would become the fastest steam locomotive in the world.
    In 1936, Kodachrome is invented, being the first color film made by Eastman Kodak.
    In 1936, The first regular high-definition (then defined as at least 200 lines) television service from the BBC, based at Alexandra Palace in London, officially begins broadcasting.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:08 No.16627713

    Nuclear fission discovered by Otto Hahn, Lise Meitner and Fritz Strassman in 1939.
    The Volkswagen Beetle, one of the best selling automobiles ever produced, had its roots in Nazi Germany in the late 1930s. Created by Ferdinand Porsche and his chief designer Erwin Komenda. The car would prove to be successful, and is still in production today.
    First intercontinental commercial airline flights.
    The chocolate chip cookie was accidentally developed by Ruth Graves Wakefield in 1930 which was very popular.
    The Frying Pan was the first electric lap steel guitar ever produced.
    Edwin Armstrong invented wide-band frequency modulation radio in 1933.
    The Bass guitar was invented by Paul Tutmarc of Seattle, Washington in 1936.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:12 No.16627751

    Oh, angry right wing guy, you reminded me - by this time the Communist Party had, ever since Browder got in charge in the 32 on Stalin's wish (shitcanning former gensecretary William Z. Foster, author of "Towards a Soviet America"), they had been building up a underground network of spies and NKVD assassins. There are, as mentioned before, communist spies in the Loyalist government.

    So there is plenty of moral ambiguity of Stalinist infiltration into the forces of democracy/the legitimate government.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:16 No.16627784

    Sure you can. Comments, suggestions, or questions. There's stuff I haven't developed, and stuff I've forgotten to post, so please ask if there is something that could use being cleared up.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:20 No.16627816
    You could make this more than an empty setting. This is pretty pointless. There's nothing for making a game here. Nowhere for characters to fit in, no defined arms & tactics to stage a wargame.
    >> Army Types Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:27 No.16627879
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    Loyalists -

    The UAR rank and file, assembled from pre-coup Regulars, Reserves, National Guard (all of whom were part of the preexisting divisions making up the standing armies); with replacements and filler from State Guard units and new units raised, trained, and armed by the army - especially once battle lines solidified in '35, giving both sides time to train new regulars from conscripts and enlistees.

    New Deal Coalition militias - these include non-absorbed State Guard units, state militia raised by Coalition political officers (be it Northern Republicans, liberal Democrats, or third parties such as the dominant Farmer-Labor in Minnesota), local militia formed by Coalition groups: city political machines, community groups like the Catholic League/Negro Communities League/Jewish Defense League, liberal groups and relief agencies (at one point New Deal social workers started handing out rifles at the Relief offices).

    American Workers Union militias, formed by the industrial unions or the workers councils they organized among non-union working class allies. These were poorly armed, except in the Communes were arsenals were seized in notable amounts, until Morgenthau got into office and - unlike the more conservative Hull - armed them.

    Popular Front militia - also formed from AWU fodder, but armed and trained with foreign guns, supplies, and advisors by the Popular Front parties. The guns and supplies are funneled through the International Democracy League, a Popular Front organization in which various anti-fascist groups raise aid - from the Socialist and Labour international, which is raising funds and arms for pro-democracy Socialist Party controlled militia; to the Comintern funneling superior amounts of Soviet weapons and trainers to form CPUSA militia.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:29 No.16627898
    >Nowhere for characters to fit in
    You have factions, you have clear goals for them, you have a good idea of how the factions work. What more could you ask for to run a good spy RPG?
    >> Army Types Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:40 No.16628028
    Nationalists -

    The American National Army, composed from the same pool of standing troops as the UAR. Their officers are just as likely as not to be Phalanx members, bearing the armband and flags designed by the romantic warrior and nationalist philosopher General Patton. Mac doesn't tolerate that in the First Army, however.

    Due to the centralized government system of the Military Districts, Nationalist state militia are integrated into the army; unlike their UAR counterparts, however, they are far more proud of their state affiliation and more likely to bear state flags and their old unit names.

    Local Nationalist militia range from private forces of Conservative Coalition politicians or Liberty League industrialists to local militants formed by community groups like the Elks, Rotary Club, Lions, etc.

    The Klu Klux Klan are active in organizing local militia throughout Nationalist America, not just in the South (the Second Klan spread successfully all over the country in the 20's); and maintain a guerrilla resistance in the Loyalist occupied deep south. They receive arms and support from allies in the Nationalist government.

    The American Legion is, whether MacArthur and the Business Plotters like it or not, a integral appendage of the National Government - with Grimm sitting in on the Presidential Advisory Board. The began recruiting young men to serve as rank and file among Great War vet officers in 1930, a practice that paid off when the fighting began.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:44 No.16628079

    Christian Frontists are mostly disorganized, inspired by Coughlin's radio broadcasts. They are better classified as local militia than as a organized paramilitary on a large-scale.

    The Silver Legion are an organized paramilitary, but by virtue of being concentrated in New England rather than being spread out. They are lousy fighters, and are given hopelessly old weapons by the government; as they have little pull with the Nationalist officials.

    The National Police under Hoover, however, lavish support among old-school anti-foreigner vigilante groups; who all wear the NatPol armbands (they ran out of tin for badges): the National Security League, the American Protective League, the American Defense Society, and others. They have networks of spies - so watch out. They even maintain the schoolboy spies of the Great War era, who if you are feeling really Nazish could constitute a Hitler Jugend type unit in a Nationalist force.


    The signature plot, in my opinion, is the impending Siege of New York by Nationalists. It is cut off, a Loyalist enclave. The fighters there are doomed, and they know it. There is a frenzy there, with UAR soldiers and AWU workers militia rubbing shoulders.

    People have also previously expressed interest in Eagle Korps (my idea was that Americans are signing up to serve as infantry under the German artillery and tank corps) and in the WestCoast commies.

    Also, Harry Haywood leading a clandestined unsanctioned by the CGUS Communist battalion of resistance fighters to organize African Americans in the South on both sides of the border (the Loy/Nat border) in the South. And KKK guerrillas coming out of the woodwork in sabotage runs and assassinations in the Loyalist South.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:57 No.16628222
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    Finally, a setting where technocrats can matter!
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)22:58 No.16628227
    A note on the West Coast:

    The West Coast is lousy with Communist party members who are former Wobblies. This gives the Westcoast Soviets a...unique character, to say the least - the juxtaposition of totalitarian socialism with anarcho-syndicalism.

    The Westcoast Strikes began not with the Communist's maritime union, but with ordinary trade unionists being inspired to rebel against their conservative national leadership and strike to turn the docks in San Francisco and other West Coast ports into unionized workplaces.

    "The Limey", Harry Bridges, was such a Wobblie-turned-Commie sitting in on the Albion Hall group, the various longshoremen leadership who planned and organized the strike.

    The Westcoast Soviets, in this timeline, have the support of the striking relief camp work gangs in Canada - who were in real life organized by the Communist Party's Workers Unity League and Arthur "Slim" Evans.

    In reality, these striking relief camp dwellers were part of a riot in Vancouver and attempted a On-to-Ottawa Trek that was stopped by the Canadian army at Regina.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)23:00 No.16628258

    While Technocratic intelligentsia where stuck at the university in New York, the political movement was exclusively in California: one could say Howard Scott was giving a speech in July, and got stuck there...and well, now he's on a Westcoast Soviet committee alongside some SAG guild actor named Reagan and Upton Sinclair's political campaigner and youthful activist, Robert Heinlein (who has always wanted to fight in a resistance).

    The West Coast is filled with fun historical figures to throw into the revolutionary mix.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)23:06 No.16628327
    The story behind the Communes are the May Strikes: there was a Teamster Strike in Minneapolis that shut down all road transport of commercial cargo in the upper midwest, coordinated with the farmers to make sure they could still move their produce straight to the stores and cut out the distributor middlemen; and organized by the American Trotskyist movement, the Communist League of America. The strike became an occupation became a commune when the Coup was staged and everyone got riled up.

    Same thing with the factory workers in Toledo, only with the unemployed instead of farmers and socialists - the American Workers Party - rather than flying Trots.

    And then Chicago...the normally conservative rail brotherhoods, AFL types, refused to transport Nationalist men and materiel - and Chicago ended up a madhouse of trade unionists, radicals, moderates, and just trade unionists - trade unionists everywhere - until the vestigial IWW stepped up to suggest some surprisingly practical organizational methods.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)23:23 No.16628483
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    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)23:25 No.16628504
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    I am serious about my suggestion that you all check out A Very British Civil War: Anglican priest generals! British humor, but with guns! Scottish Republic fighting Scottish Order of Loyalists fascists. BUF Legion units and palace guards in those big furry hats and ceremonial uniforms fighting plucky trade unionists.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)23:28 No.16628538
    Well nice to see Mayor La Guardia finally making an appearance. I pushed hard for him in earlier threads, along with a few other characters who I forget (Tesla? Probably, he always shows up bigtime in alt-history.)

    But it looks more like you are assembling a table of organization and equipment than putting together a game setting. It's good to know who's in charge of the Panama Canal Zone, but what do the PCs do?
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)23:32 No.16628570
    Huh, Maelstrom has it. Nothing on /rs/ though.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)23:42 No.16628658

    I've posted sections on that sort of thing before, but it is always generalized and chatty. I've given some specific examples and I can talk in generalities about the role of freelancers and roving patrols in a civil war setting, but the only thing that would really matter would be concrete sample campaign ideas, like they have in Transhuman Space. Like eight one-paragraph suggestions for what could constitute a party and what they could be doing. Campaign Frames.

    But to be fair, the Autistic Approach to Game Design is making this setting more detailed than most I've created.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)23:55 No.16628785

    Not hassling you, you are absolutely right. While some details are not in place, they're not really ones i feel I need to list out: Loyalist overgenerals don't really matter who they are, the important loyalist officers are the lt.generals.

    So now I know what I need to work on are Campaign Frames and da Westcoast Sovietskis.
    >> Anonymous 10/14/11(Fri)23:58 No.16628818
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    I think that unit-wise the war should rely more on gang wars and WWI Eastern Front/Russian Civil War more than anything (which I guess is Spain for most). Geographically Russian variant is a better fit than Spain, for.
    So, based on the similar tech, there are still trenches all over the place, but war is more mobile than WWI but less instant than blitzkrieg, and much more decentralized than both. Tank production in the States is still clumsy and experimental and requiring comparatively more infrastructure than the militias can afford, so gun trucks (commies might even call theirs "tachankas") become extremely prominent. Railroads are absolutely crucial, trains are the new navy. If you play with the concept right, cavalry gets revived at some point.
    That's what I see, anyway. Sorry if any of this has been said before, it's getting hard to keep up with you guys. Keep up the rad work.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:02 No.16628855
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    1592 - Yamoto (formerly Jipang or Japon) invades Korea in what will go down in history as the Imjin War. In the six years following the outbreak of the hostilities the Korean army, of which Admiral Yi Sun-sin was arguably its most prominent commander and tactician, skillfully manages to bring the war back to the attacker's home on its own hook. At the daybreak of December 16, 1598, after a two months long siege, the town of Osaka is levelled by an unreported amount of batteries consisting of bombards mounted on cast-iron hwachas, thus marking the end of the conflict and ushering in the cession of southernmost Yamoto to Korea as its first overseas toehold.

    1810 - After almost two centuries of weak but persistent border clashes with rogue peasant armies following the rout of Manchuria in 1636, Korea formally occupies Inner Manchuria and annexes it. In order not to upset the brittle policy of appeasement between the two countries, Qing representative Yishan accedes to sign the Treaty of Aigun on May 28, 1811.

    1835 - A massive earthquake followed by a tsunami shakes the territory of Sanriku, northern Yamoto, claiming tens of thousands of lives. With its native populace having been sorely tried by a spate of natural disasters spanning two years and months of unrelieved famine, widespread upheaval gives rise to a belligerent lower-class front spearheaded by Oshio Heihachiro, bent on toppling the despotism of the corrupt Tokugawa shoguns. Before long the situation rages out of control, forcing Tokugawa Ienari to beseech the naval intervention of Korean ironclads moored in Shikoku in exchange of permanent military settlements in the northern isles.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:03 No.16628862
    1853 - In the light of the abrupt shift of powers in East Asia, Commodore Matthew Perry sails to the Korean peninsula seeking to open viable commercial routes between Americas and the Far East by trying to loosen the two centuries old isolationist policy with Western powers of the Korean Empire. After lengthy talks Perry is the first foreigner to be admitted, as a representative of USA, in the court of emperor Gojong. There, he discusses his proposals in the so-called Convention of Hanseong, arguing the opening of the ports of Pusan and Nampo to unresticted United States trade. Perry departs shortly afterwards mistakenly believing an agreement between the two sides had been reached, unaware that the emperor had in fact stopped short of delivering official endorsement to the treaty as per his advisors' suggestion. A more equitable arrangement would be signed exclusively with France only 10 years later, on heels of the defeat of Admiral Roze.

    1897 - The First Russo-Korean breaks out. In the wake of the Boxer Rebellion the Korean army, not regarded by the decadent Qing Dynasty as a foreign invader unlike its Western allies, occupies Outer Manchuria with the aim of flushing out and fight any future potential destabilizing cadre. Taking Korean presence as a hindrance to Russia's own interests on the zone, Tsar Michael II wages war on the Korean Empire but the army stationed there, weakened by previous clashes with Boxers, is unable to stymie the thrust of the Korean Army and is soon overwhelmed. The Treaty of Portsmouth, signed on September 5, 1898, would cede the entirety of Manchuria as well as rioting Sakhalin to Korea.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:03 No.16628864

    Along with rail, the Mississippi and its many tributaries are the lifeblood of transportation. Shit, you could make a whole wargame about brown water naval conflict.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:03 No.16628867
    1900 - Recent Korean victory over the Russian invasor causes Meiji Restoration to come about. Meiji, nominal emperor of Yamoto, acquiesces in allowing Korea to become the sole deputy for both internal and foreign affairs of his nation by signing the Eulsa Treaty, thus turning to all intents and purposes Yamoto into a Korean protectorate. Formal annexation wouldn't occur until 5 years later.

    1923 - The Great Kanto Earthquake strikes central Yamoto, causing unprecedented death and destruction. Widespread fires ravage Edo, sprawling beyond control mainly due to obsolete and unmaintained infrastructures as the former imperial family is reported missing.

    1925 - For the second time in history the Korean Empire is forced to take up arms against Russia. After six months of unabated border skirmishes the Korean Empire, previously neutral during the Great War, decrees the full mobilization of its army against breakaway White Russian rebels helmed by Roman Ungern von Sternberg, spread thin at the outskirts of the former Russian Empire. The subsequent victory over them would secure Korean rule over Yakutia and Kamchatka. Civil unrest erupts across the Bering Strait as Russian Alaska is being shut out of mainland Russia. USA occupies the territory as a precautionary measure.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:04 No.16628875
    1935 - Maritime Provinces become part of the Korean Empire thanks to a landslide victory of 91% favorable votes in the popular plebiscite. Alaska is officially declared an organized territory of USA as of May 11.

    1942 - Still suffering from the combined effects of dust bowl storms and the ensuing worldwide stock market crash and staggering unemployment rate upsurge, depression-stricken USA sees no other choice to overcome the crisis but to devise a surprise strike on the Korean Empire, the "Thoroughfare of East Asia", in hopes it would cut its hegemony down to size as part of a desperate bid to forcibly open the country to one-sided economic agreements with North America. President Charles Lindbergh sanctions the preemptive attack on the Korean fleet docked at Guam on December 5, which would be carried out just two days later. World War Two begins.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:04 No.16628881

    This has me hot and bothered, but you missed the Alternate History thread. This is the 34 Putsch.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:10 No.16628931
    Any naval wargame fans here want to get a-brewing? Or at least guide to the better wargames to homebrew?
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:14 No.16628960
    Fear and Loathing in the Big Apple: A district of Brooklyn, one of those where the Alderman has been replaced by a Block Council, must enforce curfew, help their people survive a long winter with rationing, keep watch for Nat saboteurs from behind the trenches, and most of all prepare the Block for the impossible - resistance against the impending siege, a siege no one but MacArthur knows when will take place. The Block Council can be comprised of residents, trade unionists, political organizers from the Coalition or Popular Front, soldiers in the NYC Detachment, minor city officials, or municipal militia men and women. Preventing Block Wars between the 35th Firemen, the Negro League Defense Force, and the Catholic League rifles out of the Irish quarter is a challenge in of itself.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:18 No.16629000
    No problem Anon.

    I think you also need to add in the foreign response. Last thread I remember we were toying with the idea of ACW II taking the place of the Spanish Civil War as a place where "volunteer" units from various European powers tested out their WW II doctrine. Probably not Japan though. They'd have even more free reign to stomp over China and giving them a West Coast hook-up would take away from the Sovietski feel and be contra-historical. The Nisei were no friends to Nippon. You could still do an Executive Order 9066 deal though with Japanese Americans forced to prove their rejection of imperialism and devotion to brotherhood.

    Don't refrain from tapping /tg's/ historical hivemind, but I think you've got enough background. Time to dial it in.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:19 No.16629016
    Charge of the Right Brigade: National calvary, given a suicidal assignment by their Phalanx garrison commander for refusing to put on the black armband, are sent into Death Valley on anti-Red patrol duties. Can they survive the desert, and once they begin to be picked off one by one by desert bandits and guerrillas, their own fears and doubts? Will they pull together, or die alone - unmourned and unburied?
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:22 No.16629037

    This is the problem with my table style posting: you skip over things. I've mentioned the foreign volunteers. Broadly speaking they follow the Spanish formula - major countries don't send infantry, they don't want to get embroiled into a real war over this, not yet.

    If you look up thread you'll find my pathetically named British Democratic Guards and the French Garde Republicaine, plus the spiffier German Eagle Korps.

    Then there are the volunteer infantry, who are only sent by pseudo-countries like Italy and by private volunteer organizations like the American War Volunteers and international Brigades.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)00:45 No.16629202
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    Sorry, missed those.

    Ain't no party like a necktie party because a necktie party don't stop... until the legs stop twitching. - July 4, 1934. Topeka, Kansas. The city came together in shock and horror, united as one by the awful news coming out of DC. They met and mingled in wide-eyed worry about the future. Then they went home and listened to the radio.

    But different radio stations. That's when the trouble began. Started with rallies and vandalism and that quickly escalated to the killings. The mayor and police are divided and helpless and the city is now at war. Not along geographic, but along class and political lines. Kansas is bleeding once more. You can either make sure your enemies contribute their share, or listen to the fools yammering on about how what happens in DC don't mean a damn thing. Nah, kill the enemy. Those peaceniks are probably on the other side.

    (Picked Topeka for the Bleeding Kansas reference, feel free to sub for a more logically divided city.)
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)02:16 No.16629854

    This is an awesome resource, with period information, slang, and more.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)10:11 No.16631948
    lol mods


    Warhams sucks
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)10:15 No.16631957
    PENIS in your ass OP!
    >> Example Playstyles Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)15:30 No.16634031
    Muckitymucks: The PC's are a group of officials and functionaries of some kind, be they Loyalist, Nationalist, Red, criminal, or other. A government detail might have a military officer, a bureaucrat or company man, a minor politico or reporter, a driver or pilot, and a secretary or bodyguard.

    Hired Guns: The PC's are mercenaries, assassins, smugglers and transporters, the local muscle for hire, investigators, freelance troublemakers, or other types of hired help.

    Continental Ops: A dedicated team of true patriots or true believers in the cause; be they C-Gov marshals or the black hats of the National Police, spies infiltrating the Klan or commandos on a raid behind enemy lines.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)15:31 No.16634037

    Palookas: The street level game of small figures in a city, town, or fleeing the front lines. Can be the most varied, with a trade unionist true believer taking secret orders from the communist underground rubbing shoulders a made man in the mafia, mingling with an alderman or minor political machine boss and a garrisoned soldier. To go from the streets down to the gutters, this can be a game of two-bit hoodlums trying to get made, molls selling secrets from their politico boyfriends or clients, okies and other fresh wheat in from the country looking for work, and hobos or students dodging the draft.

    Doughboys: A squad of soldiers, sailors, aviators or an elite unit or ragtag assembly of all of the above. This is the playstyle where a team of PC's, one of whom is technically in charge, take missions from up the chain of command and fight the good fight.

    Free Corps: The militia game, like Doughboys but with far less supervision and support. This is for resistance fighters, the town guard, the neighborhood defense force, a spirited militia column that roves the countryside along the front, and street fights in the suburbs of contested cities.

    Mixed: Why not all of the above? A PC muckitymuck could be escorted by a detail of soldiers led by a officer PC, or hired hand player characters. A soldier, a militiaman, a federal agent, and a private detective or pillar of the community could be tracking down a lead or organizing the war effort.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)15:51 No.16634203
    I find it remarkable that this thread is not archived and I cannot find any of this on 1d4chan.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)15:56 No.16634250

    There is an archived Second American Civil War thread with earlier stuff of this on suptg. But you are character about 1d4chan. .
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)16:08 No.16634363
    I feel like I should recommend Blitzkrieg Commander as a wargame for this.

    It's a WW2 game that works in 2 to 20mm (unit bases) scale, already covers the spanish civil war, is a simple and solid system, and is not hard to come up with units for (it has a thing in it for that purpose too).

    It'd certainly cover larger battles, ones that actually are battles rather than gang wars. It's one of those games where technically the level of abstraction is each unit represents a platoon, but everyone sees 1 tank as 1 tank anyway and it still works. It's based on Warmaster with some major alterations for 20th Century combat.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)19:23 No.16636034

    Your not the first person who has suggested using those representational minis scales for small unit games.

    The guy working on his own unicorn of alt history wargaming, Winter of Discontent (a british civil war in 1979/1980) has considered, for sake of wanting as much terrain for cities and stuff as possible, moving to a smaller scale even though his stuff is mostly about streetfighting not tank columns charging each other.

    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)20:54 No.16636829
    I have a sickness: trying to come up with specific playstyles/example campaign frames and so forth I've wound up researching and cataloging the levels of local government in the United States - trying to create a hierarchical list of administrative levels.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)23:50 No.16638472
    The central members of a neighborhood volunteer squad in the Metropolitan Militia of New York City, singled out by the borough commander for special duties. Friends and rivals in the boroughs include MetMil sections from the Catholic League, the Negro Communities League, the Jewish Defenders, the American Workers unionists, and the rival Popular Front unionists and their political militants. Dealing with the New Deal Coalition political machine's strangle on city politics and the impromptu block councils formed by a populace kicked into gear by the war is just part of the job if you want to get things done in the Big Apple. This is a squad-based game where missions are more open-ended and there is generally less shooting.

    The leading figures in a Nationalist town's Liberty Committee; such as the mayor or town council, the sheriff and his deputies, the chapter commander of the American Legion, or a local bigwig of industry or old money like a Rotarian, Elk, Freemason, Lion, Kiwanis, or Civitas club representative. Balancing broad powers granted to local elites by the National Recovery Administration to shut down the businesses of dissidents and rivals with arbitrary mandates such as curfews and army script imposed by the region's Military-Governor is part of being a boss in National America. This is a game of intrigue as well as a strategy, directing even a small part of a war effort and having the authority and responsibility to root out spies, guerrillas, and saboteurs provides an opportunity for the players to display ingenuity while attempting to stab each other in the back to gain more prominence for themselves in the National hierarchy.
    >> Anonymous 10/15/11(Sat)23:52 No.16638490
    This is still a pointless project.
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)00:03 No.16638596
    "He sure is butt-pained about this thread!"

    "Yup, even took the time to sage. You know, maybe we should quit it. After all, would he have taken the time to post if his opinion wasn't important?"

    "Good point. OK, show's over, people. Back to /d/."
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)02:14 No.16639878
    I think I might just fall back on something i had been doing, being more specific about the "current" in late 35/early 36 in various parts; with things like the siege of Pittsburgh serving as a substitute for me being competent at some other sort of framing device for "what to do in this game".
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)03:07 No.16640292
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    you could make this a total war style game, just keep the graphics simple and ask game companies for help on publishing, ex. valve.
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)12:29 No.16643492
    I'm ashamed at the lack of progress i made pulling a late-nighter. I'll try to get my brain working today.
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)14:07 No.16644403
    The Loyalist defense of Pittsburgh
    Nationalist defense of Jacksonville
    Bleeding Kansas, under Governor Charles Murray who hates everyone - "coons, corporations, and carpetbaggers" (a historical quote of his)
    The Nationalist brown water attack downriver upon St.Louis
    The Red evacuation of San Diego in the face of General Craig's Nationals
    The Siege of NYC - and the air battle between the Loyalist and Nationalist air corps
    The Michigan Line, a massive network of trenches and wire
    The Loyalist front command deploying from Minneapolis, having to deal with the delicate situation of the Trotskyist Minneapolis Communards while awaiting Patton's plunge into the Loyalist heartland.
    KKK guerrilla campaign in the Loyalist gulf region ever since it was taken from the Nats in 35
    "Bombingham" - Birmingham is the farthest Nationalist holding in the South, and there are those who would rather the city burn than fall to the Loyalists
    The Caribbean Theater - German Uboats in Cuba, British warships in Jamaica, the Hatians and Dominicans fighting on HIspanola, the Puerto Ricans revolting against Governor Roosevelt Jr.
    The Pacific Theater: The only thing standing between the massive Nationalist pacific fleet in Hawaii and the West Coast is the Soviet Far East Fleet. How disturbing is that? But the Nats are dividing their forces, attempting to take the Panama Canal as daring fleet actions take place with the Loyalist ships and air corps there.
    The Philippine revolt between the Loyalist governor and the Philippine army and the Nationalist U.S. garrisons; the US fleet in the Philippines having moved to become the new Gulf Group of the Loyalists, while the British Royal Navy and other Commonwealth ships guard the islands now from the Japanese.
    Tensions between the Toledo Communards and the UAR in Columbus, between the Sierra Detachment and the Mormon Danite vigilantes.
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)16:24 No.16645605
    From the various approaches I've been trying
    here >>16644403

    here >>16638472

    here >>16634031

    and stuff like this: >>16629016

    which do you guys think works better to provide accessibility to the setting?
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)18:56 No.16646951
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    These pulp wargame minis are pretty inspiring for 30's gaming.
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)19:16 No.16647206
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    Assault police! The U.S. doesn't exactly have the equivalent of gendarmes or the Guardia Civil, but lots of cops were probably Great War vets and/or National Guardsmen.
    >> pinkmawile !!BfgNt0j+IPD 10/16/11(Sun)19:36 No.16647363

    You could also play as political opportunists or revolutionaries looking to make their own faction.
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)21:15 No.16648404

    Indeed. For instance I can't NOT include Charles Murray's Oklahoma in this.

    Murray was elected on a platform of blaming the Depression and Dustbowl on "Coons, Corporations, and Carpetbaggers". He kind of constitutes his own ideology.
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)23:27 No.16649720
    - Albion Hall (San Francisco, the Commonwealth Assembly)
    - Alameda County Central Labor Council (Oakland Assembly)
    - Central Labor Council of Portland (Portland Assembly)
    - Washington Labor Council (Seattle Assembly)

    - Harry Bridges; Australian, Wobbly turned CP member, dockworker, Albion Hall Assemblyman
    - Elizabeth Gurley Flynn; the "Rebel Girl", a Wobbly and Portland Assemblyman
    - Robert Oppenheimer; physicist and Berkeley professor, a Commonwealth Deputy for Research and Development
    - Howard Scott; a former cement pourer, New Yorker giving a speech on technocracy to a SF crowd when the Revolution broke out, a Commonwealth Deputy for Industry and Armaments
    - Robert Hale Merriman; University of California professor and ROTC adviser, leftist, Revolutionary Guard Captain
    - Herman Bottcher; German cabinet maker, immigrant student at SF State College, RevGuard Major
    - Other RG officers: Hollywood screenwriter Alvah Bessie, noted surgeon Leo Eloesser, Oregonian Robert G. Thompson, Washingtonian student Harry Wayland Randall; and the former aide to slain Governor Sinclair, Robert Heinlein
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)23:31 No.16649755
    That winning combination of Tea Party racism and OWS stupidity. I like it.
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)23:33 No.16649793
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    If it's the 1930s, and things look grim in the city, there is only Batmarine.
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)23:55 No.16650029
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    Can The Bat stopthe foul Black Legion vigilantes before they burn down the Polish Quarter?!
    >> Anonymous 10/16/11(Sun)23:56 No.16650038
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    >> Anonymous 10/17/11(Mon)00:21 No.16650287
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    Adjacent to and allied with the Westcoast Commonwealth, the Canadian Cooperative Commonwealth stretches from Vancouver to Regina, with Arthur "Slim" Evans as President.

    But no worries, faithful Canadian, the mounties are striking back against the Red scum who turn the relief camps of the West into breeding grounds for bolshevikism!
    >> Anonymous 10/17/11(Mon)02:52 No.16651481
    C-Gov, Northeast Region:
    Boston is the headquarters of the Atlantic Group of the United Navy of the Republic, and the largest Loyalist harbor on the Eastern Seaboard.
    New England's too-young, too-old, and too-female are always participating in patriotic and community-minded activities, be it work or shore patrol and home guard exercises, out of constant fear of a Nationalist naval invasion.
    Every able-bodied man of fighting age, the Fourth Army's amassed forces, is on the border with the Nationalist held portions of New York state; from major troop concentrations, running air battles, and trenches on the Connecticut border to patrols and air reconnaissance in the Adirondack mountains.
    British advisers at Fourth Army HQ in Boston, British diplomats at the new Region government center jokingly called Boston Commons, constant cross-border traffic with New Brunswick, fishers from all over the Canadian Maritimes encroaching on U.S. fisheries because everyone is too afraid to make a stink with the Canadian government as it provides so much assistance (and most importantly, neither Canada or the Northeast Region want to upset the British embassy over anything unnecessarily).

    I should probably do these sorts of things for every area, for the cities and specific fronts and so forth in more contested areas like the Central Region, and then incorporate it with the tables of raw data like governors and headquarters to have Setting section of a gamebook style paragraphs providing the details in a non-chatty but not in bulleted list either fashion.

    I just hope I'm not too lazy or burned out with trying to find an approach that works.
    >> Anonymous 10/17/11(Mon)10:17 No.16654149
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    >> Anonymous 10/17/11(Mon)15:26 No.16656606
    By order of President MacArthur, this thread is to be bumped and all captured Rooseveltists are to be lined up and shot.
    >> Outdated early "How to Play" type material Anonymous 10/17/11(Mon)18:39 No.16658089
    Roleplaying in a Civil War:

    With the Pershing Declaration ("The US Army does not fight its own") the regular forces, the small - cut in the 1920's and poorly divided into Army Corps Regions - husk of the US armed forces, have ceased major operations against each other - focusing on garrison and anti-partisan details - which in fact means engaging the Interior Forces of Loyalist Warchiefs (if Nationalist) or Nationalist state guard and militias rolled under the command of one of MacArthur's imperious generals and staff officers (if Loyalist); not to mention independent Warlord Armies - I mean Interior Commands (as in "I'm just here to protect the US from foreign invaders" being the legitimizing excuse), Communists, bandits, and foreign powers.

    Who are all fighting each other as well.

    In every State within the Union there are competing Loyalist and Nationalist governments fighting for control and for the hearts and minds of the people. A rebel movement can be as small as a county committee or a town council; or it can stretch across states led by a mighty WarChief.

    While both governments in theory are directing the war effort from nation-wide federal planning, in reality their federal authority is stretched to decentralized commanders - commanders who either must act imperiously and requisition supplies and levy their own taxes in a region, or must deal with non-federal local committees formed by those sympathetic to their cause, which is a hassle in of itself.
    >> Anonymous 10/17/11(Mon)18:40 No.16658094

    This creates a geopolitical situation similar to the Warlord Period in China at this time, with areas under autocratic generals or military governors levying extreme taxes to fund their operations in lieu of reliable support from the central government they are answering to, if any.

    The nation is fragmented and at war, with borders constantly changing. It is a golden opportunity for smugglers, bandits, mercenaries, adventurers, and meddling foreign powers.

    And, all of these find it easier to hire on the ground - even the people who had just been shooting them - rather than continually resupply fresh blood.

    Which is fine dandy for PC types.
    >> Anonymous 10/17/11(Mon)21:01 No.16659271
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    >> Anonymous 10/17/11(Mon)21:13 No.16659385
    Death to all fascists and their subhuman helpers.
    >> Anonymous 10/17/11(Mon)23:06 No.16660524
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    The Klammando Red Scorpions might have something to say about that.
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)00:54 No.16661444
    Even just phrasing a list of the belligerents is difficult, as for instance Germany and Britain aren't at war with each other or officially at war with the American side they oppose.

    And just how is the British Empire run anyway? Who would be the highest British armed forces and British politico dealing with events in Canada? In the Pacific?

    Trying to frame the Caribbean and Central American theaters in a way that keeps it oriented along the American civil war, but I need to be able ton include information about Japanese pressure on the Philippines, causing interplay with the British and the US civil conflict going on in those islands.
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)01:34 No.16661787
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    Blech, I just hope this thread survives till tomorrow so I can redeem myself for my craven laziness
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)02:40 No.16662304
    These Empress Minis Spanish Civil War figs paint up pretty nice. These guys just as well be a West Coast Syndicates artillery crew trying to not blow themselves up.
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)02:42 No.16662318
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    > captcha: structures, ardeep

    Yes, yes they are.
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)12:29 No.16665398
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)12:51 No.16665471

    Canada is fully autonomous country by this point - the Statute of Westminster made in 1931 confirmed the independence of all of the Dominions.
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)13:52 No.16665664

    Balfour Declaration and Commonwealth too, right?

    That's part of why I changed the west coast reds back to syndicates rather than a commonwealth.

    Also, it is crazy to picture the U.S. empire, not the Cold War era informal one that people claim or deny based on political affiliation, but the genuine empire: Philippines, Puerto Rico, Guam, Virgin Islands, American Samoa. Not to mention back in this period Cuba was basically an American satellite.

    I mean, I've never visited the American empire. Not even Puerto Rico. I'm starting to get tempted to go on a Grand Tour (though that was supposed to be of foreign nations in Europe, not of one's own nation's imperial possessions - what did Brits used to call a tour of the empire? Nevermind) from Puerto Rico to American Samoa and everything in-between.
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)15:25 No.16666623

    >>(though that was supposed to be of foreign nations in Europe, not of one's own nation's imperial possessions - what did Brits used to call a tour of the empire? Nevermind)

    I don't believe that there were any "imperial tourists" in any organised sense - the Empire was so widely dispersed, diverse in environment and full of so many individual polities that that it'd be a tall order (Britain only ever controlled part of the Indian subcontinent - hell, modern India is more imperialistic than the Raj ever was). However, the word "posh" comes from Anglo-Indians - it's an acronym for "Port Out, Starboard Home": the more well-heeled passengers on the boat being able to take the choicer shaded cabins on the boats to and from India.
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)15:33 No.16666695
    The Second American Civil War
    Date: July 4th, 1934 - Ongoing (currently January 1936)
    Location: Continental United States, Mexico, Territory of Alaska, Territory of Hawaii, Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Commonwealth of the Philippines, U.S. Virgin Islands, Republic of Cuba, American Samoa, Guam, Panama
    Belligerents -
    Continuity Government of the United States (CG-US)
    American Workers Union
    Popular Front
    Supported by -
    Foreign Volunteers
    Great Britain

    American National Government (ANG)
    American Legion
    Christian Front
    Supported by -
    Foreign Volunteers

    West Coast Syndicates
    Supported by: The Soviet Union
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)15:34 No.16666704

    Related Conflicts -
    Hispaniola War, Second Christero War (Mexico), Trek Revolt (Canada), Japanese involvement with the Colombian government (likely to threaten the Panama Canal) and running guns to anti-American rebels in the Philippines
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)17:52 No.16667977
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    The A Very British Civil War community's stuff continues to be an inspiration.
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)19:11 No.16668722
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    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)20:25 No.16669535
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    The general idea I've had for the "current state of events" since much earlier incarnations of 34P is...
    - Impending Nationalist siege of NYC
    - The National forces of General Craig ( a detachment? ) and Lt. General Walter Krueger fighting in Texas, on the frontline on the map between Loyal Houston and National San Antonio.
    - The Loyalists in the Central and Gulf unable to send forces North to break through a corridor to New England again, due to not knowing when and where General Patton is going to strike from the plains/rockies of his district into the agricultural and industrial bedrock of the Loyalist Central Region, or attempt to cut them off from their vital resupply point on the Gulf Coast.
    - Lt. General Smedley Butler doing the best he can with the troops he has to fight off National probing actions looking to move on Pittsburgh and use it to advance deeper into the Central Region
    - Loyalists sieging the National enclave in Michigan, from whence Henry Ford's son is able to raid - especially the Toledo commune.
    - Lt. General Eisenhower handling the delicate task of coordinating with the Minneapolis Commune to protect the North Central flank from Patton's possible invasion
    - The Syndicalists still hammering down National and other anti-communist guerrillas on the West Coast and bolstering up their forces following the embarassment of having to evacuate San Diego from Malin Craig's forces.
    - The isolated Sierra department of the Loyalists, dealing with the Mormon church's growing influence and with the prospect of preventing an advance against far numerically superior National troops from down where a tiny spot called Vegas is.
    - Naval battles as the mighty National fleet in the Pacific from Hawaii could launch a full naval invasion of the Westcoast, with only a little less than indifferent about letting Nats kill commies Britain blockading and the Soviet Far East fleet actively fighting.
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)20:30 No.16669599
    - The Nats in the Pacific splitting their forces, fighting the sizable Loyalist splinter of that fleet over currently Loyalist held Panama Canal. With more airpower than the out of date Pacific fleet, Panama is defended for now - but for how long? Especially if Nationalist or Anti-Komintern agents in Columbia provoke an invasion of Panama.
    - The fight between Vandegrift (Loy) and Summerall (Nat) over the Florida Corridor
    - profit ???
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)20:39 No.16669668
    With the French and British very powerful in the Caribbean with the large Royal Navy and lots of possessions, from Guinea to Bermuda, the Gulf Group of the Loyalists are able to secure steady resupply navally for the Gulf and Central Regions.

    However - these supplies could be threatened from the Mississippi, forcing overland transport via trains (which Klansmen in the South are already pretty good at sabotaging), making the Bloody Old Muddy a naval theater in of itself, and by the Nationalists.

    The U.S. Fleet in the Altantic that split into National and Loyal sections was small, the main bulk of US navy forces in the Pacific - now in National Hawaii and Loyal Panama respectively. But the Nats got a far better end of the stick than the Loys in terms of the Atlantic Scouting fleet and they aren't without foreign naval support of their own - with Cuba as a National aligned island in the Caribbean, legally German and Italian ships and planes are able to dock and resupply there, which means a clusterfuck of piracy and privateering in the Caribbean and some protection against the idea of a massed Royal Navy assault on the Nationalist East Coast - if the British escalated to that level, they couldn't be sure it wouldn't end up a full blown war with the Anti-Komintern, already escalated before they can shut down European waters to an island hopping campaign in the Caribbean.

    So the Loyalists European allies, navally speaking, concentrate on a mighty supply line through the Gulf Coast, and on preventing naval landings in New England, but are unable/unwilling to invest/risk in a naval strike on the East Coast. The fact is losing a British ship to the small National fleet off of the Atlantic could force a war on the streets of London and in the House of Commons, a war with American rebels that Britain doesn't want, as it will only accelerate a war in Europe.
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)21:01 No.16669857
    I love this setting the more dead americans the less crap we (the rest of the world) need tot take
    >> Anonymous 10/18/11(Tue)22:28 No.16670424
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    Yeah, but pro-Fascist National America or pro-Soviet West Coast could cause some problems to Briteuropeans and other furriners.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)00:02 No.16671029
    A guy has been blogging the adventures of his group's roleplaying campaign in the wargame setting 1938: A Very British Civil War mentioned earlier on this thread: http://alfiesantics.wordpress.com/

    They chronicle the exploits of the Amalgamated Liverpool Free Intelligence Service as they go where liver-birds dare in their daring operations against King Edward and PM Mosley's Royalist forces.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)01:10 No.16671463
    The West Coast Revolution: How did the Syndicates take over California, Oregon, and Washington?

    The answer to this question lies in the politics of California and in the nature of the interwar U.S. Army in the West.

    1. California Unter Allies
    The West Coast Waterfront Strike, which paralyzed all of the english-speaking ports of any significance on the West Coast, from San Diego to Vancouver, began in San Francisco. There, the leaders of the International Longshore Association - under the influence of former communist Maritime Service Union members like Harry Bridges, many of them former Wobblies like Bridges, organized the strike from unofficial offices at a venue named Albion Hall. Having joined the ILA en masse the previous year, when FDR's new labor laws made unionization of the entire industry possible, the short-timers and ex-radical unionists naturally conflicted with the conservative AFL leadership of the ILA nationally. From Albion Hall, they made plans with ILA members in the other ports to shut down the docks and demand close-shop unionism and union hiring halls throughout the coast; in effect preparing to set up their own industry-wide union independent from the obsolete collaborationists in the ILA leadership.

    With the ports cordoned off by picketers and sympathetic protests by leftist groups, the Albion Hall group in San Francisco quickly gained ground by "moving inland", getting sympathetic teamsters and warehouse workers to strike further down the supply chain attempting to break through the port picketers. The formation of the city-wide Shipping Syndicate in San Francisco was the last straw for the Industrial Association, the business owner's organization, and their allies in the upper echelons of the SF Police Department. They would make their big move…after Fourth of July weekend.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)01:11 No.16671475

    But why did the police do no more than prevent workers from assaulting attempts to break through the pickets, rather than routing the picketers - even when they set up barricades to stop the armored cars being driven by young shipping company managers?

    The answer to that lies in the 1932 Gubernatorial Election in California, which resulted in the election of socialist Upton Sinclair on the Democratic ticket. Sinclair's pro-union influence prevented harsh action by the police and had the State Guard busy duplicating the impartial actions of the SFPD, preventing bloodshed - mostly caused by the owners and their strikebreakers - in rural California as the migrant farmers organized a mass strike, a strike Sinclair himself had helped inspire with a speech.

    This situation set up San Francisco for the events that followed. Following the unexpected and sensational news of the Independence Day Coup, the reactionary establishment of San Francisco mobilized on Thursday the 5th. The police and strikebreakers, thinly disguised, raided trade unionist venues from the MWU headquarters to the Workers Forum. They made their mistake, however, attacking the Workers Ex-Servicemen's Association headquarters; where unionists had been arming ever since hearing of the coup in Washington. This led to running battles in the streets between the police and gangs associated with the workers throughout the day, while a shocked populace milled about on the streets, still unbelieving of the coup, and getting into fistfights over differing opinions on the matter. The whole powder keg was lit when the police raiding the ILA soup kitchen had a patrol car mobbed by unionists, homeless, and sympathetic passerby's; and responded by firing a Thompson machine gun into the crowd.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)01:13 No.16671483
    The result was a riot, as the dazed and confusing San Franciscans littering the streets had their sympathies tipped over against the police and the Industrial Association. But what made this a moment for the Syndicate and not for the loyalist movement did not occur until the following day, when a massive Syndicate funeral procession for the dead victims - union and otherwise - was attacked by Industrial Association vigilantes. The assault upon wives, mothers, and children drove all of San Francisco - and as the word spread, Seattle and Washington as well, mad with radical fervor.

    The final nail in the coffin separating the radicalized coast, turning upon the limited police forces and local elites, from the fanatically anti-communist rural communities was the assassination of Governor Sinclair by a member of the Sheriff's Department of Sacramento. The Revolution began in earnest on the coast, with the National Guard units in those cities overwhelmingly declaring for the revolutionaries. Meanwhile the reactionary State Guard, long a tool of establishment force, were far inland, where they had turned upon the Okie "soviets" Sinclair had had them protecting.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)01:13 No.16671488
    2. Dad's Army

    But what about the Regular Army and the Reserves? Surely they would have tipped the balance in the favor of the rural National Guard as the State Guard fought an army of migrants. This leads us to the next point, the state of the inter-war army. The army being in such a state that, according to the Army Corps Areas scheme, every full division of the standing army in the West was to be completely assembled from National Guard units across state lines; with only the lightest leavening of regulars and the Reservists not organized into any combat command.

    This left the rural Guards, facing guerrillas in their core territories already due to the Migrant Strike, with an advancing Revolutionary Guard from the well provisioned and well organized coastline. Being organized into a combat command however, the senior National Guard officer of the three West Coast states took command. Rather than face off against a similarly sized force of identical training and weaponry, they were called to assemble - as according to the existing plans on paper - with the forces in the Southwest, where they formed core cadre in the National Third Army and had much in the way of initial success against the Loyalists until their massive defeat in the successful Loyalist campaign for the Gulf Coast in spring of '35; where most of their officers were demoted, transferred, or shot and replaced by more steady hands by General Craig.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)03:04 No.16672179
    Unorganized Militia
    Ordinary citizens with civilian weapons who occasionally muster and perform field exercises under self-selected officers. C-Gov town guard (or neighborhood patrols in cities) might well coexist in the same Successionist locality as AWU union or council volunteers, as might ANG and American Legion volunteers coexist in the same Nationalist areas.

    Organized Militia
    Irregular fighting forces, with civilian and/or military weapons. Local volunteers armed and given cursory training by a government or other group with arms and experienced personnel qualify as this. Merely organized local militia such as this on the lower end, on the higher end there are the C-Gov Municipal Defense Forces in the cities and the Workers Battalions formed by AWU committees from all the union locals/worker councils in a large city or a county. On the Nationalist side, higher end organized militia include ANG Auxiliaries and proper Legion units (made up of actual Legion paramilitary members, rather than sympathizers such as have been encouraged by the AL to form unorganized militia during the war), ranging from a Legion Centuria of a single chapter to a full Legion Cohort. On both sides, State Militia qualify usually as middle or high tier.

    Experienced fighters and officers among the militia at the start of the fighting included ROTC, CMTrainees, Veterans, and cadets.

    State Guard from before the coup have hardened into the combat equivalent of Regulars, as have National Guard; while Reserves and Regulars, both lacking major combat experience before the war, have reached similar levels in terms of the enlistees through their recent combat experiences, but the difference in starting quality for the commissioned officers was quite evident and that gap still exists.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)03:53 No.16672571
    Besides unorganized militia and Irregular combat forces unwilling to leave their home turf, security forces include the police (and the ANG's powerful National Police, not to mention C-Gov's less muscular Flying Squads), Military Police (and the armed support personnel of the militaries, such as transport pilots and convoy guards away from the front; including some women's auxiliary pilots and other support corps members), and paramilitary equivalents of MP's (such as Legion Provosts, male Great War vets who didn't cut it as NCO and officer materiel for young recruits like most members did). There are other, more specific rear guard and other military security forces, as well as more specific civil authorities, but many of these have been rolled up into others - with experienced Shore Patrol becoming frontline units and various armed federal officers being rolled into the National Police (or Federal Agents, as the less menacing CG-US equivalent are called).
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)04:13 No.16672651

    so much to read.

    But so good.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)10:31 No.16674373

    Yeah I know. I'm just afraid that each time i try to get to more points more concisely through a narrative section or paragraphs that I just end up using unnecessary verbiage to get a point better displayed in list form across.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)12:26 No.16675267
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    There are a lot of nice 30's minis out there.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)12:37 No.16675353
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    And suddenly, in 1938...

    "Ladies and gentlemen, we interrupt this program to bring you a special announcement.

    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)15:52 No.16676671
    Some thoughts on training, experience, and war progression:

    Training and Experience Levels For Enlistees and NCO's -

    Experienced Troops
    Reserves and National Guard
    State Guard and Irregulars
    Unorganized Militia

    1934's Regular, Reserve, and National Guard enlistees and NCO's are now Experienced Troops
    1934 (and Spring of 35) State Guard and Irregulars are now Regulars
    1934 (and Spring of 35) Unorganized Militia are now Irregulars

    Training and Experience Levels For CO's -

    Experienced Officers
    Regular Officers
    Reserve and National Guard Officers
    State Guard Officers
    Irregular "Officers"
    Unorganized Militia "Officers"

    1934's Experienced Officers have risen in rank
    1934's unproven officers from the Regulars are now Experienced Officers and risen in rank
    1934's Reserve and National Guard officers are now Regular Officers
    1934's State Guard Officers are now Regular Officers (despite fresh SG being inferior to fresh Reserves/NGuard)
    1934's Irregular Officers are now Guard/Reserve Officers
    1934's Unorganized Officers are now Proven Irregular Officers
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)18:25 No.16677003
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    The German staff officers of the Eagle Korps recruit Americans to serve as their rank and file infantry, allowing Uncle Adolph to test out new artillery, aircraft, and armor without committing too many Deutschlanders.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)19:34 No.16677269
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    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)20:42 No.16677727
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    Those bumps during the freeze didn't bump it, so one more pic and I'll try to have additional content rather than a pointless bump next time.

    Some more A Very British Civil War stuff.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)21:18 No.16678124
    Who released these? Can I get a list of some decent 30s miniature companies? So far I've been going through Brigade Games catalogue, these look similar. This is for a game of Strange aeons coming up.
    >> Anonymous 10/19/11(Wed)21:43 No.16678431
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    Those look like figs from the Spanish Civil War Line of Empress Miniatures:


    But for pulp adventurers, gangsters, civilians, and the like you really can't beat:

    who are the source of those purple hooded cultists and red robed gas mask 1930's Adeptus Mechanicus looking fuggers I posted earlier.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/11(Thu)00:20 No.16680209
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    Working on militia forces some more
    >> Anonymous 10/20/11(Thu)02:24 No.16681235
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    Having hammered down that paramilitary groups like the Legion often have civilian militias supporting them, it has made me want to define more specific paramilitary combatants in the overall war - as local militias aligned with a certain cause are becoming their own related/subordinate phenomena.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/11(Thu)11:50 No.16684581
    Falcon bamp.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/11(Thu)16:07 No.16686949
    The idea, in a clusterfuck of a civil war like this, of there being prominent paramilitary forces that act as national or regional wide combat commands then leads to questions; like can a guerrilla group technically a militia have a militia inspired by them? That is, a pro-Them militia of poorly armed/trained civilians on a local level.

    And the answer is of course, just as local town guards/partisans assist the government or army they support.

    I've been inspired and confused by the actual Spanish Civil War, where the relation between the Popular Front government organizing the Popular Army (or the Popular Guard before that) and say the socialist UGT trade unions, a component of the Socialist Party who are the largest component of the Popular Front coalition, being counted as a separate belligerent, with UGT militia when the government armed the proletarian on the streets in order to hamper the initial Nationalist garrison risings.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/11(Thu)16:11 No.16686985
    Similarly, I've been examining a Very British Civil war, which has - for example - in a war that mostly takes place between supporters of Edward on one side and anti-Edward forces on another side:

    Labour/Socialists - Workers Defense Corps
    ILP/Anarchists and Trotskyists - Workers Army
    CPG and International Brigades/Commies - People's Assault Columns

    Or the BUF party has the BUF Legion, pro-BUF civilian militia, a BUF intelligence arm, etc.

    And within the BUF fold are also the lesser fascist groups - with say the National Socialist League having their leaders hold a rank within the BUF and get their supplies and orders from such. Whereas others, even in the same ideological umbrella, in this case fascism, are decentralized and basically local militias - even when they are well trained/well armed irregular fighting forces - without a national or even region-wide combat command; such as the English Array, whose neo-feudalism lends themselves towards locally grown grass-roots counter-revolutionary militia.

    And that's not even mentioning the relation between the Anglican League and the socialists, or the Anglican League and other pro-prince albert forces, like the Yorkist Front and the Albertines who are technically separate as one has hints of Yorkish regionalism/separatism and is a preexisting army that declared for Albert; while the other are Albert's personal guards/militia/supporters I guess.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/11(Thu)20:32 No.16689522
    The time period is ideal for the social conflict involved, by 38 the New Deal was fait accompli, but that's also when the Old Right really began forming - when the Conservative Manifesto and Taft in the US Senate and all that started bubbling up, and they didn't really get going until the post-war 40's.

    Still I was able to accelerate Senator Bailey's writing of the Conservative manifesto or at least bank on his politics; but with the Republican leader in the Senate a pro-New-Dealer, the anti-New-Deal political forces were a lot more bipartisan than I had initially expected, which is pretty good as it lowers the derp factor in terms of modern POV and it becoming an argument or shitstorm.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/11(Thu)23:55 No.16691415
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    >> Anonymous 10/21/11(Fri)02:09 No.16692575
    Some National movement organizations, that could plausibly have unorganized militia at the least or highly organized paramilitary combat forces if they are among the more important, I've been struggling with:

    The Old Guard -
    The Conservative Coalition
    The American Liberty League
    The National Democrats ("Bourbons")
    The Anglo-Saxon Compact
    The Klu Klux Klan
    The Southern Agrarians

    The Front of the National Offensive -
    The American Legion
    The Phalanx
    The Christian Front
    The Silver Legion
    The National Security League (also American Defense Society and American Protective League)
    >> Anonymous 10/21/11(Fri)09:49 No.16695330
    Municipal Defense Forces: These organized local successionist militias are usually formed around interlocking groups and logistical supply chains existing during the New Deal between the political machine, relief organizations, and community groups. As such they tend to have spirited and uniquely identified sections from the various components; such as a Catholic League section next to a Negro Communities League section next to the Fire Brigade volunteers next to New Deal Coalition political volunteers.

    Liberty Committees: These local nationalist organizations are often the basis around which organized local militia are formed. The Committees themselves are made up of community elites and reactionary philanthropic organizations such as the Elks, Lions, Kiwanis, Rotary Clubs, Civitas, and Chambers of Commerce; along with more unique elements such as the local big shot (often the industrialist who owns the town's main source of employment) and other crusaders against trade unionism such as the local religious leader and small business owners whose existence depends on the approval of the local big shot or community elders.
    >> Anonymous 10/21/11(Fri)10:06 No.16695416
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    By 1936 Canada controlled the vast majority of North America. All that remained of the US and Mexico were two relatively small, well guarded enclaves.

    Although the rest of the world was, by this point, rather appalled at the brutal Canadian takeover, the Canadian political and social reforms and the promise of a new and better life living the "Canadian Dream" drew in millions of immigrants, resulting in an exploding population base. China, the most populous nation on Earth, and in the process of industrializing, was losing more people to emigration (mostly to Canada) than they were gaining via births.

    The total population of Canada at this point in time was 363.43 million people and gaining, while China edged ahead at 414.34 million and dropping.

    European powers, Great Britain in particular, attempted to fight multiple wars of containment, in order to stop the Canadian threat, but their efforts were mostly fruitless in the face of Canada's massive industrial power and population base.

    Canada entered the 20th century not just as a great power, but as THE great power. Expanding influence and control over South America, and totally controlling North America. Truly an unstoppable juggernaut.
    >> Anonymous 10/21/11(Fri)12:27 No.16696490
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    Die Canadian scum!
    >> Anonymous 10/21/11(Fri)17:46 No.16699019
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    Found some more amusing VBCW stuff. Some people have made some cosplay stuff, including this Liverpool Free State cap representing the large celtic socialist component of their armed forces; the altered Tam O'Shanter cap being what the creator calls a Tam O'Stalin

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