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  • File : 1315858187.jpg-(39 KB, 658x438, JasonBarnhart6.jpg)
    39 KB Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:09 No.16273905  
    This is my setting Idea:

    For some reason unknown, every person or earth was reduced in size to roughly 4 inches tall. Strenght and food needs are obviously properly reduced. The civilization as we know simply cease to exist, since going from the sofa to the front door is now a long walk, opening it is almost impossible and all of our tools are rendered useless. Without maintance, water supply, energy and everything else with time, stop working. The number of people that died from starvation, eaten by bigger animals and things like that is simply to big to calculate. But humanity survives, and this setting takes place five generations later. Since when reduced people maintain their memories, most of modern concepts and ideas lived on, such as political organization, gear systems, the knowledge of electricity etc. But some of this knowledge is only partial, some is lost or distorted as we have no acess to things we had for certain.

    Now there are the "wilders", people who live in colonies on no urban areas, usually on holes near trees, or even on houses on its branches. They hunt insects, rodents (big game) and birds (hunter's true challenge) to eat, and also organized parties to find food, materials and in some cases, a more suitable spot for the tribe. Some wilders live deep on what used to be rural areas, and a few made farmhouse into cities.
    And there is the "Urbies" or "Citians", a variety of cultures that manage to survive on the now ruins of urbans areas, dealing with big threats like catsplosion (yes it can happen on cities), crumbling ruins and lack of natural resources. But they have the advantage of a easy acess to artifacts from the Giant Age. A nail, when heated and forged, can become a sword. A scissor blade or razor can be adapted into weapons, and plastic is just a excelent material.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:17 No.16273997
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    There are mixed tech levels. Some of the urbies managed to build working battery powered cars, sometimes using toy cars as base, and sometimes starting from scratch. Traveling out in the open is risky, raptor birds often prey on the tiny humans, as also cats and some dogs. There are few animals that still have reason to fear us and in many ways we became a easy pray. Working on groups, acting smart and keeping our head low is or only shot at surviving. Raw strenght can save you in a struggle agaisnt a nasty mouse, but won't do much agaisnt a sneaky, huge hungry cat. Or a rampaging pitbull. There is trade between comunities that are not far apart and even wraiths of political organizations, like king's or senate on the non-nomad societies.

    I need more ideias to make this work. System suggestions and setting ideas. What you think /tg/?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:29 No.16274152
    guns are now make shift artillery,

    Spears are loved.

    Humans would have a great power to weight ratio but would have to eat a lot to compensate to also having greater surface area and no hair. so we'd have to eat more but we could actually handle ourselves fairly well as we'd be rather tough for our size.

    large creatures would have to be fended off as a group. think medival pike and shot style armies fending off cats.

    with a hand gun on some wheels or on a car acting as heavy artillery.

    giant robots at this size actually become feasible (well small robots but they'd be giant to the people.)

    scavenging for tech, gun powder, food and metals would probably be key, and imported luxuries would falter,

    gas would actually be plentiful and you'd need less to get further, remote control planes could be jury rigged so that a pilot could fly it. eventually being able to reconnect city centers.

    i can imagine houses now acting as fortresses, most are abandondened but people have flocked to certain ones to live in.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:29 No.16274154
    I'm on board with this idea simply because I've always loved the idea of making little gadgets and weapons from household materials. Kind of like the movie "Nine" (with the little burlap guys) where they've got swords made from scissors and little lightbulb staffs.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:31 No.16274176
    Pikmin comes to mind.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:33 No.16274198
    Good, good..
    Now make this into a game!
    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)16:34 No.16274213
    Agree with you. interesting you mention firearms as artillery. One of my ideias was a revolver being operated by a trained crew. Two guys to carry and cock the bullets on the drum, a spotter that seeks targets and aims, and a shooter, who pulls the rope attach to the trigger. The loading team, after realoading, pulls the gun pin down for easir trigger fire.
    Yes, this is one of the reason. Urbies would have from the gun artillery mentioned above to catapults made using spoons and rat-traps.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:35 No.16274219
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    Sounds like The Borrowers OP, sans the Biggies of course.
    Read it/watch it.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:37 No.16274241
    Neat thought.

    If this were a published game, the cover should have a ruler printed along the edge, for size reference.

    >Could my character use something like a steak knife as a weapon?
    >Let's see, you're about 4 inches tall.. and this knife is way too big for you to properly get your arms around.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:37 No.16274247
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    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)16:39 No.16274268
    Also, this is my idea for adventuring on this setting:
    Players would be humans from different backgrounds, and the system would have to give a nice role to skills, since they are JUST as important as fighting in this world. Le' say the players are Urbies from a Junkyard converted into a huge metropolis inside a city. And they have to go to the cities outskirts to trade some plastic, for example, for seeds and food with the Wilders. They mostly travel by night to avoid raptor birds, and have to overcome HUGE obstacles such as the sidewalk step, a crack on the street or a building that crumbled on the path and raider mounting rats.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:39 No.16274270
    Whenever I hear stories like this, I keep imagining a large group of these tiny people banding together and transforming a car into a massive "Landship."
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:40 No.16274288
    with side holes for the revolver artillery so it can fight other landship?
    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)16:42 No.16274303
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    We can try to make this into a system, or a setting to a system. If the system is lethal, crude, skill-focused and cover fighting things you can literally climb on and build a house.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:45 No.16274362
    - those red-rider wagons from our childhood.
    They are now roving battlefortresses, pulled by teams of small animals. With a mini-city built inside of doll houses.
    - childrens toys converted into useful vehicles. Engineers dropping tiny combustion engines from RC vehicles into roughly machined GI-Joe vehicles for transport.
    - Viable battle mechs carrying .22 repeating firearms
    - RC planes refitted to carry people
    - keep in mind that one can of tuna fish could feed a colony for a week.
    - another cool thing is that all our knowledge would be preserved on computers. We'd still be able to use a computer or any digital device, they would just be these massive monoliths of knowledge that colonies of humans would have to fight to protect, or capture.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:48 No.16274410
    If this existed I would play a character who had a bird mount. Probably a bluejay. That said, the setting seems a little bland. Yeah, you're tiny, but I can't think of what I would do if I where gming this. Maybe evolve on why everyone got tiny in the first place, and how. Maybe introduce other mixups to throw in. The real issue is that there's no inherent drama. I'm now wondering what industries would become impossible when you're that small. I'm pretty sure you could still build a computer at some tiny computer building factory
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:49 No.16274427
    Let's do this! If its class-based, I can suggest a few:
    Fisher (wich is like a whaler, killing fishes twice his size with spears. Also sailing knowledge)
    Protector (Wilders version of a soldier. Melee strenght)
    Hunter (A mix between ranger and barbarian)
    Scavenger ( a Urbie favored class that has some engineering)
    Scout (a ranger-rogue, urban or wild)
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:49 No.16274434
    This would be crazy! Imagine how terrifying bugs and critters would be?

    To scale up to our comparison is (say im 6ft) a x18 increase!

    There'd be slugs as big as your leg, and ants as big as your face!

    I've just measured my ovan and grill pan, and thought it'd make an excellent base for a foundry for 4" high people!
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:54 No.16274490
    holy fucking shit.

    Imagine you're leading your small group of say . . . 50 survivors. You've got some doctors, maybe an engineer or two, but mostly blue collar types.
    Roaming through a house, you have to fight off the house cat who is now starving since nobody feeds it. You have to compete with cockroaches that are now the size of Great Danes for food.
    But you march on in search of the holy grail. You've come to this house, with it's children's toys in the front yard, looking for one thing:
    That kids stash of motherfucking LEGO's.

    Lego has everything. Tiny electric motors. Pneumatic systems. Raw materials that don't have to be forged or shaped, just stamped into position. You could build a car, with it's own motor, and drive your whole colony around looking for batteries (which are now as massively important as oil in mad max). You could build ANYTHING without needing to re-invent the machinery wheel.
    It's the motherload of treasures, for sure. But you still have to get across the great living-room wastes, the backed up bathroom bogs, the naked hallway of the terror cat, and finally you'll have to figure out some way to unlock the door to the child's bedroom. And god help you if the legos are in a sealed box with a heavy lid.
    But hey, maybe the kitchen has some canned goods that will feed your colony for a whole year! And maybe that cat didn't stick around when the food ran out, right?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:55 No.16274498
    "The USS Toyota"
    It has mounted shotguns sticking out holes the sides a la pirate ship. The trunk is open and serves as a garden.

    Steering would be difficult without either an electric motor or other complex means. 5 mph is probably the fastest it would go.

    I'm thinking this thing would be stationary most of the time, only moving to "migrate" down out of the mountains or something.

    Also, think about the massive weight of things when you're 4 inches tall; it would need a small crane to tip a moderate-sized bucket. And the effect of wind and rain; light hail could easily kill a man out in the open, and heavy rain would be a good beatdown.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:55 No.16274503
    I ran a homebrew fantasy rodent campaign back in highschool very similar to this, with the cause of the change being some archmage council casting an epic variant on Baleful Polymorph. I don't remember exact details, but the added classes were something like this;
    Scavenger; Builds equipment out of metal bits, anything they can find.
    (forgot the name); Druid-like class. Gains abilities through a symbiotic relationship with some form of pest in their stomach (a tapeworm was the default). They regained spells by eating food.

    I don't remember much about the campaign. The enemy had multiple necromancers at it's disposal, who animated human skeletons and controlled them ike mechs from within the skull.
    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)16:57 No.16274526
    The setting is open, but surviving and doing quests in this type of world would be much harder. And there is plenty of role for adventure, being rafting down a river as an explorer, scouting ruined buildings for artifacts from before, precious things like need, nails, knifes, charcoal and pretty much everything else. You can always include a rival Colony on the sam territory fighting over resources. The trheat of starving, the giant animals, the misterious dangerous. I don't see lack of potential here. I think it sound so cool that you can make things in such a huge scale. And also you can focus this game n not only improving your character, but also improving your colony.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)16:58 No.16274532
    OP, this idea makes me happy.

    Legos could be used to make small dwellings. Nothing sturdy or substantial, but something akin to real life wood huts.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:01 No.16274585
    Knowledge wouldn't be so much "lost" as "we know exactly where it is, it's just *getting to it*." Recoveriy would be a massive undertaking to retrieve books and technical manuals the size of houses.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:02 No.16274588

    For your size, Legos would be pretty damn sturdy I'd say. They'd be closer to cinder blocks than wood as far as building materials were concerned, and a damn sight lighter.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:02 No.16274594
    I think a new system would be amazing.

    This just calls for unique rules and situations that aren't usually presented in other systems.
    >> 008 09/12/11(Mon)17:02 No.16274596
    Let's not leave out papercrafts. A paper airplane is now a viable parachute/hangglider, a paper tent is the easiest to set up or transport since it only needs to be folded.

    There's also the issue of texture. Something smooth to big people would be like sandpaper to the tiny. Walking across street pavement would be akin to a nightmare wasteland. Hot, rocks everywhere, pits and covered in toxins.

    There are other issues such as some bacteria no longer being small enough to effect people, or being large enough to be life threatening when it was once minor.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:02 No.16274598
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    I thought I had a picture of a mouse riding a beetle somewhere.. but have a packrat instead.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:04 No.16274621
    Something to consider: Flight would be ridiculously simple and approachable. Leaves could be turned into serviceable wings. Humans in general would be much more resilient to falling damage as our terminal velocity would be such that a strong wind would blow us away.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:04 No.16274628

    Raider types would love to have some of those legos that pry other legos apart.

    Here's a thought:
    A group of raiders on a roof or somewhere else high up with a magnifying glass on a sunny day. Imagine the terror they could cause.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:06 No.16274643
    This needs to be the latest example of /tg/ getting shit done.

    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:07 No.16274655
    The focal point on a magnifying glass is usually within a foot or two, so that wouldn't really be viable.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:07 No.16274659
    I wonder how large countries could get in this universe, I could see an empire that makes use of highways through converted battle cars, taking taxes and tribute from outlying towns back to the main city.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:08 No.16274665
    Tinyhammer! Suddenly collecting those Empire Halberdiers pays off when you can jam that sharpened plastic into something for real.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:08 No.16274668
    Just imagine how horrifying it would be to enter an old, abandoned shed. Spiders the size of dogs would be hanging from the roof and hiding under holes that are now big enough to see into. Beetles would be like tortoises, only frighteningly fast. Earwigs would be as big as cats, and able to rip an arm or head off.

    And, of course, spiderweb would be like iron chains covered in epoxy.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:08 No.16274672
    I suppose, but it would still be a dangerous thing to have. What used to be a small fire in a patch of grass could now be a devastating wild fire.
    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)17:09 No.16274679
    Ok, system time. Let's decide how it will work. Universal points like gurps? Class stats like most rpgs?

    I'm favorable to classes on this, but maybe them can be less restrictive, working like a template?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:09 No.16274690
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    >mfw I realize this is basically furn gully with no faerie wings
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:10 No.16274695
    Imagine what an already large creature would be like in this system, a bear for example.

    It might be pretty harmless to something as small as humans, but it would be awe inspiring.

    Actually, a bear would basically be the scale of Godzilla in this setting, AWESOME!
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:10 No.16274702
    I would just make it a gurps setting imo. You need gurps so you can meticulously calculate how a tiny propeller would work.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:11 No.16274712
    9v Electric Motor in a RC car?

    war-buggy ahoy...
    A model shop would be an armoury.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:12 No.16274717
    If a bear is godzilla what is an elephant?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:13 No.16274731
    Well, this would suck.
    cats, foxes, birds, small dogs, spiders, hornets, large rats, ants, scorpions, everything is now gunning for you.

    I mean really, what the fuck are you going to do about a goddamned hawk? Only go out at night? Motherfucking Owls!
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:13 No.16274733
    The great moving continents
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:13 No.16274739
    Super Sayan Godzilla, of course.
    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)17:13 No.16274740
    >> 008 09/12/11(Mon)17:13 No.16274746
    Something told to bad children to scare them.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:14 No.16274757
    Human could retain some of their previous strength, so they are more like mini-Conans than just mini nerd-people.

    But imagine huge Human city vs ant colony battles. What if by the same strange thing, Ants developed sentience?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:15 No.16274764
    >Go to a fortress city in a police station, they warn about a dragon near the under sea
    >its a crocodile that has escaped from the zoo living near the sewers
    >Epic quest time
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:15 No.16274766
    Dear god, that would be horrifying.
    Also, some bears might be a danger still.
    Not directly, but they would still probably step on a random person or five every once in a while.

    Something like Basic Roleplaying would be good for skills: a list of skills rated 01-100% base don the characters knowledge of that skill.

    Classes should be different than the usual Fighter, Thief, Healer, etc. cliches.

    Maybe something like
    -Tinkerer (a 4 in. tall Macguyver basically)
    -Hunter (excels in hunting and fighting insects, rodents, etc.)
    -Delver (basic explorer class that excels in navigating the gigantic landscape)

    Any other ideas?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:16 No.16274772
    I've always been keen on World of Darkness's approach to character creation. ## amount of points for attributes, ## points for skills, ## points for special abilities/talents, and everything else is derived from those stats.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:20 No.16274814
    >a 4 in. tall Macguyver

    That is amazing.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:20 No.16274817
    I'm imagining a full sized pickup truck traveling down a highway at 5, maybe 10 miles an hour.

    It has shotguns mounted to serve as artillery and places to lower smaller toy cars to the ground.

    It's purpose is to collect tribute from the outer territories of an empire, it has a crane on the back to load useful devices into the trunk, which is probably covered by a tarp.

    The truck is designed to be as intimidating as possible in order to prevent rebellions.

    I wonder if gas might be a problem though, it does go bad after a few years and I don't imagine there would be more oil being pumped, but maybe that's the entire reason the empire is so powerful, they have a functioning oil pump.
    >> Scotguy !!Ht/oMGOvLa3 09/12/11(Mon)17:21 No.16274826
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    >not sturdy

    fuck it's like a wonder material, modular, easily repairable, almost indestuctable, waterproof, relativly insular, light, and as someone said, if you have the right blocks you can make anything

    also remember tat lego makes boats that float, they just need some balast, imagine goign on an adventure down the sewer on the USS lego made from loads of leggo boats built together, fending of 'giant' rats with your .22 artillery cannon
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:22 No.16274844
    I would not go in any boats in this setting, the smaller a boat, the easier it is to capsize

    Maybe they could make a motorboat the equivalent of a oil tanker, but any smaller craft would be taken out by the first big wave.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:23 No.16274863
    A cleared out house could easily serve as a mid-size city.
    >> 008 09/12/11(Mon)17:24 No.16274881
    Even a calm day on the sea would be rough for small people.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:25 No.16274891
    classes are terrible. What the fuck class does macguyver fall into?
    The problem is that there's no magic. So I don't care how fucking mini-conan you are, a Fox is going to kill you no matter what. And if a Fox can't, then a large dog will. And if a large dog can't, fucking bears. See where this is going? There's no magical bull's strength to give a man the ability to kill a dragon.

    So being stuck as a "fighter" class would suck balls. You'd be handy when other tiny human raiders showed up, but other than that you'd be pointless. 99% of the natural animals out there are so big it doesn't matter how handy with a pointy stick you are.
    I like point buy for stats and skills, while being able to increase skills both during level up and with use like morrowind or something. Perhaps rather than getting generic experience points, you would get bonuses to specific skills by using them for ingenious ends. Or something. I am not a clever man.
    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)17:25 No.16274892
    Hum...Maybe we can do it like this:

    4 major physical and 4 major mental atributes, rated from 1 - to 100, using % roll like >>16274766 suggested. Them, you have skills, that are bonuses to that atribute test, classes add bonus to the class skills, complications and advantages would be extra dice rolled along with the % roll, d10's more likely, determine the result. Something like this. What you say?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:25 No.16274896
    to 4 inch humans the largest ants would still be half our size, and the average ant would be like a small dog. at 4 inches tall a human would be more the size of a mouse than anything.

    but yeah no traveling during the day unless you either can 1. escape, 2. defend yourself , 3 arn't a threat (nomad human farmers using cows as mobile transport, food and safety, with howdaw houses)

    how about a town built in a car, with the controls wired up to a remote control, a flat bed truck can become an aircraft carrier for a squadron of model airplanes.

    even small caliber weapons can fuck up a bird too if we can manufacture them. smaller hands means miniturization is easier.

    Cities in shopping centers lit up with christmas lights, and town watch who are clad in plastic lunch tray armor and close hangar pikes and box cutter swords.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:27 No.16274909
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    >After a lengthy expedition we have finally reached the top of the stairs. We were initially skeptical, but now all we can do is hope that the ramblings of this home's owner were true.

    >To our great fortune, the door was still open, but the room was a mess.. But we could see it, there, stashed in the corner, a colossal container, overflowing with the glorious treasure we sought.. Lego bricks. Thousands of them.

    >If we could retrieve this payload, we would have enough to house the whole clan and build reliable fortifications... But first, we had to cross a jungle of dirty clothes and old toys. I pray that no mice have set up nests here...
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:27 No.16274912
    Maybe something like professions then, something to determine your starting skills but not limit you to set role like a fighter.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:27 No.16274914
    thought of something else, any automotive work would be insanely hard to pull off

    There would probably only one place capable of fixing vehicles in existence, and changing a tire would be almost impossible.

    If one of these mobile fortresses had a breakdown it would be stuck there until (probably the only) tow truck came...

    I'm liking this more and more, cars as a navy almost.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:27 No.16274921
    I also really like the roll and keep system of L5R.
    Putting points into skills could give bonus dice to your pool.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:30 No.16274940
    there'd still be tasers.

    magic is magic for a reason.

    we still have intellect scavenging and technical know how.

    we could have sticks with two electrodes powered by a taser, what's a fox going to do against a fucking taser.

    Man kind fought mammoths off with spears, and you think we NEED MAGIC?

    HA. we just need better spears.

    this is more about scavenging and crafting than magic and fighting.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:31 No.16274947
    A class system is not appopriate for this sort of thing. Backgrounds which give you certain aptitudes might be though. And to all of you whining about EVERYTHING CAN KILL YOU, where is your sense of adventure? Of course it is dangerous, that's the point.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:31 No.16274951
    >After setting up a camp for the night, we have made a horrifying discovery: the child that once lived in this room had a pair of pet hamsters that seem to have reproduced. We can count at least 10 of the beasts,and we had already lost two men climbing the stairs. But we must bring back the blocks, they are critical to our settlement.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:32 No.16274957
    OP, your original post is flawed. /tg/ has had this idea at least 3 times since I've been here, with 2 very notable threads archived quite highly. You ought to read through those before making some of these assumptions.

    >Strenght and food needs are obviously properly reduced.
    Food needs reduced? No. Total food consumed per person daily would be reduced, but being that small we'd burn our ready supply of calories incredibly faster, and would need to eat many more times a day--food would become /far/ more of a daily concern (not to mention that getting it would suddenly be something everyone would need to learn how to do immediately).
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:32 No.16274963
    There is a GURPS alternate earth with exactly this description. It was in one of the older books I believe but it was only mentioned sort of in passing.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:32 No.16274968
    So is this a Pikmin game?

    That'd be pretty fuckin sweet.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:34 No.16274984
    a mobile fortress full of hundreds of little people with pulleys and ropes could probably fix a tire, though the labor to try and remove the spare, the jack, set it all up and do it all, my god the fortress would have to make camp for a week at least.

    but yeah, god forbid they have to replace a part.

    then again we make oil tankers and air craft carriers and we do just fine with them. we'd make do with it.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:34 No.16274995
    Bad end in this situation is the team is never seen again, made food to the herd of hamsters..

    Good end is the team tames the hamsters and rides them home, dragging socks full of bricks with them.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:34 No.16274997
    If you're 4 inches tall, you'd be able to fall from much much farther heights. And you could fly much easier.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:35 No.16275004
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    >this setting
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:35 No.16275008
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:36 No.16275017
    Skills are broken up into three groups: Mental, Combat, Physical.

    Mental would cover things such as mechanics (maintaining and creating)

    Combat would include any and all combat skills (melee, artillery, ranged, hand to hand, etc)

    Physical would be things like climb, dodge, swim, etc.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:36 No.16275018
    Holy shit, this entire thread is basically people seeing a situation and drawing false conclusions about what would result.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:36 No.16275019
    >its been done before.
    doesn't mean it can't be done again.

    i mean look at all the D&D threads. this is a good idea i've often thought of it so its nice to put some ideas out.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:37 No.16275025
    Ulric CatSlayer
    A renowed fighter that saved the city of Green Meadow 1332 from the terrible menace of two stray cats. Along with his squire, Sir Ulric was able to stick a long spear made with a colorful pointy stick through one of the beast's ribcage onto into lungs and heart, disabling it so the brave knight could finish it with his greatsword made with a parts of a old knife. the other cat was slain when sir Ulric manage to climb on it and stab its neck several time from behind. The beast fell on its back crushing sir Ulric to death. But his legend lived on.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:37 No.16275026
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:38 No.16275031
    OP, are you me?

    I have been thinking of making a system based on this idea for the past three weeks.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:38 No.16275045
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    I'll just leave this here
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:39 No.16275046
    I find the idea of moving car fortress a lot less interesting than scavengers, not to mention less plausible.

    I'm now imagining people building suspended homes amongst the wire jumbles that form behind every well outfitted entertainment center.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:40 No.16275056
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:40 No.16275057
    What is the currency?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:40 No.16275061
    >holy shit this thread is just people thinking with their imaginations, but its not what i'm thinking so its obviously wrong.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:40 No.16275062
    Not only did he save our fair settlement, but the meat from the two beast fed us for nearly a month!

    Every year we hold a celebration in his honor, feasting on a freshly killed cat that our bravest hunters set out to bring down.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:41 No.16275069
    Actually, it's been threads like this mostly, people thinking it's sunshine+rainbows+LEGOs. Drawing retarded conclusions. Occasionally someone comes along and puts actual legit contributions in, thinking things through and realizing what an apocalyptic nightmare this would be.

    Nobody ever finds or makes a decent system to run it, but at least the first few threads had decent ideas. This one has been pretty derp.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:41 No.16275072
    To put it another way, I'm pretty sure in semblance of realism in the biology department goes away as soon as we have tiny humans who operate the same way as regular humans (same brain structure/capacity, etc). Why worry about it?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:42 No.16275079
    >mice aren't using an under carriage, the gun isn't steady.
    > handle is down when it'd be easier to aim without a hand if the center of gravity is lower, meaning brace the barel down and leave the handle up.
    >not trying to jury rig the gun so that its easier to fire than using the trigger
    >thinking that men would be as stupid as those mice
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:42 No.16275080
    4 inches isn't that small, and keep in mind, this is after five generations, civilizations would form.

    There would still be scavengers, of course.

    Roads don't go everywhere, and many would be unusable, there would be large numbers of people living as scavengers, but not everybody.

    It would definitely be possible for those living in a city like, say, Washington DC to make a drivable car after five generations.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:43 No.16275084
    There was a Polish post-communist movie that has suitable scenary(it was about dwarfs living in communist system, bordering normal people)-they used tools from normal sized things

    The title is Kingsajz

    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:43 No.16275085
    It would be just like the adventures of the Mini Ashes!
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:43 No.16275088
    You get to big thumbs up from me OP.
    Sounds cool as hell.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:43 No.16275091
    I can imagine a group of people somehow climbing into a child's tree house to create a tree top fortress.

    Maybe the tree house is in a tree next to an apple tree, providing easy access to food. The settlers could also set traps for birds to supply meat. And wood would be easy to come by, obviously.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:44 No.16275095
    I think some allowances have to be made for the fact that being reduced by more than ten times in size is going to leave 4 inch tall humans as ill equipped for a competitive environment as dodos. Even if our 4 inch tall humans had laser eyes and iron skin it still wouldn't counter our ridiculously ineffective body form.

    So it's best to just ignore it. Otherwise everybody would drop dead, as you would need to eat for over 100% of your lifespan to keep alive (for example).
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:45 No.16275109
    4 inches tall... that's 10cm
    At that height, average person would weigh about 13 grams, but be able to lift almost 200.
    Given the way muscles work.... you'd be a lot smaller, but you'd also be a lot stronger for your size. If you were 18 times shorter, you'd be roughly 18 times stronger for your size.
    It would be possible to jump about one meter up into the air, possibly even more.
    Falling injuries would be almost unheard of, impact velocities would be 1/18th of what they are now. You could jump off the roof of a skyscraper (a real one, like the Empire State Building) and survive (probably get blown a good distance away by air currents though).
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:45 No.16275114
    Yep, it's called "suspension of disbelief"

    I'm thinking something more skill-based than combat-focused. Using skills to do stuff.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:46 No.16275119
    >waah, not grim dark enough waah

    there's different variations to all settings.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:46 No.16275120
    Of course it's retardly dangerous. Just ignore the people going LEGOS AND CAR FORTRESS FLEETS and there's a lot of legit ideas here.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:47 No.16275129
    I think that tool usage would be pretty powerful still, but mice and rats would be a HUGE problem.

    I don't think that humans would die out, but any towns would have to be ridiculously well defended, probably on the second or higher story of a building and completely fortified, even covered on top.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:48 No.16275135
    Again, that's being lazy with your setting crafting. That's like saying "hey magic exists... so there's no racism and greedy people don't exist." One thing does not lead to another, and players can forgive an initial handwaving if it meshes with the rest of the setting and follows logical conclusions. Do too many things that don't add up and you'll jar players' suspense of disbelief.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:48 No.16275139
    >play mouse guard
    >remove mice
    >add humans

    Crunch is done.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:49 No.16275144
    So, no class. only running points. The skills could be divided in three groups as >>16275017
    An you can have three 'points pools' to be divided between those skills, like WoD. Let's say, 35, 20 and 15. Also the same for atributes.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:50 No.16275159
    The only two big problems we'd have are our surface area to volume ratio, and that our limbs are probably too long.

    However, have you considered that effectively, turning that small would proportionally make us bounce around like Spiderman?
    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)17:52 No.16275187
    forgot to tripfag there. Lets decide what atributes will be.2 or 3 atributes groups? and how many atributes per group?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:53 No.16275191
    yeah static electricity and our hands the way they are would actually make it easy for us to climb up surfaces.

    have some dental floss so you can tie shit to you and you can climb anything.

    and as i said before, spears and fire were an advantage to our ancestors against lions and mammoths, they will be an advantage to us now.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:55 No.16275211
    >>I think that tool usage would be pretty powerful still, but mice and rats would be a HUGE problem.

    Oh it would, but not because of the fools proclaiming that plastic swords would be effective (derrrrrp).

    You know how people would deal with rats, cats, and other large dangerous creatures? Poison. Most stores and a lot of homes have rat poison inside. You won't find a better weapon. While supplies lasted, fire (easy with a match) and gasoline would work wonders. Traps of a more mechanical nature would also get the job done.

    Not someone using a bobby pin to try and poke a cat's eye out.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:55 No.16275213
    Even after 5 generations, the world is still going to be a pretty harsh place. It would take multiple generations for any community at all to be established. Forming any type of agriculture is going to be ludicrously difficult at this size. Consider the size of the plants, the intense labor involved in harvesting, etc. So if there are self sufficient communities they likely can't be older than a generation. And even those will face constant danger from insects and the like.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:57 No.16275233
    At that size, good luck making and using spears that would reliably puncture and injure an animal. A cat would rip you to shreds before you could pull it off.

    Dumping a can of gasoline onto it from above and then igniting it? Would work. Lacing its food with poison? Would work. Tricking it into pawing a rat-trap (assuming you could get it set) would work. Spears? Fat chance.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)17:58 No.16275241
    Oh yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of guns eventually though, it wouldn't be that hard to make gunpowder, but the rest might be more difficult.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:00 No.16275260
    Yeah, now that you mention it, Agriculture would be hard.
    Soybeans might be pretty easy to grow, maybe some small species of potatoes, but working the fields without dieing would be the hard part.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:00 No.16275263
    Consider that most people live in cities and know jack shit about farming. There's a ton of knowledge that just isn't in mainstream books but is passed down in families, little things that make the difference.

    Also consider that after a few days, the power surge from power plants that are left unmanned is going to cause most of these cities to have HUGE fires. Numerous locations and no response, not to mention if it gets into the gas lines? Death, everywhere. It would be horrible, living in that first generation.

    >See, I don't just complain.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:01 No.16275270
    Forging, machining and the like would probably be quite difficult, but it's nothing that several hundred pre-incident human sized puppets controlled by many humans can't solve.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:03 No.16275302
    or you could just make a smaller gun on a tiny forge if you are trying to kill mice and birds
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:03 No.16275306
    Can you recite the ingredients for gunpowder offhand and the proper ratios? Do you know how to distill the requisite 3 materials?

    Gunpowder would be more for explosions anyways. Modern guns would be hard to aim unless you made them a dedicated crew-served chassis (still hard to move then). And that's just pistols. Longarms? Forget about it, short of a siege weapon--transporting it would be too difficult.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:04 No.16275311
    Just a thought,

    but what if whatever shrank all of humanity had no effect on a small percentage of the severely mentally retarded or those suffering schizophrenia.

    You'd sort of have lone unpredictable giants I'd imagine
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:05 No.16275321
    You're talking out of your ass.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:06 No.16275323
    Naturally you'd have to have some sort of lethal trap to take down a massive animal. Weapons (actual weapons,
    not plastic swords) might still be useful against vermin though.

    Also, while I would prefer to approach the setting from the PoV of a dangerous post-apocalyptic setting (with a tone somewhat reminiscent of Server Crash, really) there is nothing mandating that we adhere entirely to the realm of realism so long as we do not excessively abuse the suspension of disbelief.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:07 No.16275342
    No, but I don't have to, only one person who lives through the initial chaos does, and I think the odds are pretty good that somewhere, somebody will figure it out.

    No, not every civilization would have it, but it could happen.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:08 No.16275351
    Anyone ever watch the show "Life After People"? because that's coming to mind.

    You don't really realize just how little time it takes for wild roaming animals and plants and shit to reclaim the world.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:08 No.16275356
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    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)18:09 No.16275362
    Gunpowder weapons done in a proper size are impossible, the projectile would be too light to carry any energy. So forget about it. We either go full melee, or using crossbow/ballistae. And using the complex engines like cars and computer its a demi-impossible or just plain good old nope depeding on the case. Industry would cease, no factories would work, no gas production, oil extraction or mining would survive. Even the automated machines would fail without energy or without maintence still in the first or second generations. We need to focus on using more handy resources. How to craft tool and harvest food and wood? How to build houses? Lego won't be avaible in the quantity needed.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:09 No.16275365
    uhh when i was picturing hunting a cat it was more with thick iron spears, and it was a group either in formation so that all spears were together and in such away so that the formation was like porcupine, or that the people were all stabbing from all directions and swarming the beast.

    also i saw hand guns and rifles as mobile artillery like cannons.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:10 No.16275374
    The problem would be getting temperatures high enough, which requires economies of scale in equipment.
    1. Find a library
    2. ???
    3. Profit
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:10 No.16275375
    >5 generations, the world is still going to be a pretty harsh place
    The first five DAYS would be harsh and see a lot of deaths, but after five MONTHS, most societies would adapt and after five YEARS we'd be done retooling our factories to produce proper sized goods. After five generations there will be manned expeditions to Mars and Jupiter's moons.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:10 No.16275379
    Yep. That's why I have such a pessimistic outlook on what would happen.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:11 No.16275384
    But you would still want one so that you aren't completely helpless. You would still die most likely, but you would have a better chance with a spear than with your bare hands.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:13 No.16275408
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    fatanstic motherfuckin planet
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:13 No.16275409
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:14 No.16275420

    > After five generations there will be manned expeditions to Mars and Jupiter's moons.

    lol no, smaller size = higher metabolic rate = considerably shorter lifespan

    People will be less inclined than ever to travel this kind of distance
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:15 No.16275432
    I agree. The tiny people aren't going to be trying to live in homes ten times bigger than they should be and whatnot, they'll be adapting technolgy to suit themselves, not the other way round. It won't be fun and games, but the moment the human population has the power, any animal which can potentially be a nuisance would have been hunted to extinction.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:16 No.16275438
    I would murder babies to play a Fantastic Planet campaign.

    GO OMS!
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:16 No.16275439
    >Monster Hunter Meet Pikmin: The RPG

    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:16 No.16275450
    If we were back on our feet to 1800 levels of prosperity and technology in 100 generations, that would be a great success.

    >1. Find a library
    Sure, when food is a /massive/ priority and cities have burned down from the power surge. Shit, even finding the right book section without a computer would be far too much time looking. Then you've got to experiment to get it right. You don't see "how to make gunpowder from scratch, including distilling base materials" as a book in your normal library. You're lucky to get a mention of the ingredients in even a lot of related books.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:17 No.16275463
    >Hello there, don't mind me I'm just ruining a good setting idea.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:18 No.16275469
    Or you could run faster without one, and not waste time crafting it when you could be doing more important things.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:18 No.16275471
    think people don't realize how big 4 inchs is
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:19 No.16275480
    At 4'' tall you could use a .22 pistol like a bazooka.
    .22 is plenty powerful to kill any mouse, rat, cat, etc...

    And there are even smaller caliber weapons that still pack a lot of punch and could be used by 4'' tall people.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:19 No.16275486
    >>Hello, he's bringing up a good point. Don't run it 60 generations after the fact, do it like 2-7.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:20 No.16275496
    So I'm guessing no one is interested in actually making the system work?
    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)18:21 No.16275509
    apparently not
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:22 No.16275516
    I am. I am brainstorming right now, working in Open Office.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:22 No.16275518
    First thread is always pointless arguing. The betas need to work out amongst each other which of them is king beta. It will work itself out.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:22 No.16275520
    You could make a zip gun perhaps (still difficult to use at that size), but a full pistol is going to be too much to tote around.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:23 No.16275529
    Actually, while rainbows and happiness are most assuredly not what you'd find, our sheer ingenuity would allow for survival easily. Plus, you're not considering how likely animals would be to attack us. Is a mouse going to attack you? No. A hampster? Fuck no. A rat? Probably. A cat? Most likely.

    So. Cat, wat do? Bows+arrows and needle swords. Seriously, a needle is strong, and if you fashioned a good grip by weaving thread through the eye, you've got yourself a suitable weapon. A .22 or a shotgun? lolno. Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to aim? Best bet is to use the raw shells and design your own gun. A zipgun made with a radio antenna, slip a .22 cartridge in, use some sory of backing to keepm it stationary, and you have kinda a turret. The kick will most likely kill the operator though. Stupid idea is stupid.

    As for the legos, however... prime building material. Boats? No. Cars? Fuck yes. Remember Mindstorms? I can easily see 3-4 people building something with mindstorms, using the little touch sensors to steer it. It'd take work, and engineering (it can be hard to stick pieces together if you can exert so little force), but you could build something tracked or wheeled with no major issues. Just keep a bunch of spare AA batteries.

    If I wasn't in college, I'd put together an example. But trust me, something like legos is your best bet for long-range transport. And by long-range, I don't mean 'city to city'.

    Flying? Not gonna happen.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:23 No.16275537
    Why should the 6th iteration of this idea break with tradition?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:24 No.16275539

    This is bullshit of the highest caliber. In the first day you will see the complete loss of electrical infrastructure and the death of everyone on an airplane or train, and the death of significant number of people driving cars. Many people will simply be unable to access food. Consider population densities and potential mortality rates, then consider how difficult it will be for people to find each other. Then tell me society will be back on its feet in five fucking months.
    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)18:24 No.16275544
    I can try to host a /tg/ quest on this setting to see if it has potential to go far, adventure wise. But in my mind is a very cool variatio of Dorf Fortress already
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:24 No.16275551
    How about using D20 modern and the post apocaliptical suplement?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:25 No.16275554
    >Is a mouse going to attack you? No. A hampster? Fuck no
    I think you mean: Yes and yes.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:25 No.16275555
    Right now I have three skill groups

    Mental Skills:

    Movement Skills:

    Combat Skills:

    Any ideas on the blanks?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:26 No.16275565
    >>Just keep a bunch of spare AA batteries.
    So it'd last you a month, TOPS. You can't go buy more, or even restore the ones you have unless you have someone who knows the proper science.

    >Needle vs cat claws
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:28 No.16275577
    What exactly are we using skill categories for?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:29 No.16275582
    Actually OP I've got one almost ready to run for this very idea with a skill system (based it off of FATE, mostly), 6 different statted characters to choose from, statted creatures, and a lot of thought put into it.

    I'll show you all the final skill system when I run it, but I don't want to spoil it yet :/
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:29 No.16275583
    But a needle sword would be useful. You could at least TRY to attack a cat or defend yourself.

    The way you are talking, you sound like no one should even attempt to defend themselves in this situation.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:29 No.16275584
    Sorry, I meant a real library, not your local pieces of crap filled with baby's first encyclopedia.

    1)Find ammo stash
    2)Take out propellant
    3) Have enough gunpowder to last generations
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:29 No.16275585
    What system are you using? Does a system even need to be made? Nothing is really changing other than sizes.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:31 No.16275602
    Hah. You're a fucking idiot.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:31 No.16275603
    This setting just feels like it needs its own system. By all means, use an existing one.

    If OP is okay with it, I want to try and make a system.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:32 No.16275621
    Totally got it scaled for a 2" person, down to jump distances, weight reasonably carried, speed... yeah. But the skills are simplified to make it mostly about stuff you'd use instead of random stuff or 3.5's/GURPS too many skills.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:34 No.16275644

    Also, those aren't the same person.
    I know, I am one of them.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:34 No.16275647
    >Better access to guns
    You've never been in a rural area, have you?
    Cool idea, though. Like Mouseguard/Redwall without anthros and with more technology.
    Reading the rest of the thread now.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:35 No.16275654

    Because a passive herbivore half your size is going to always attack on sight.

    See, I live on a farm, so I actually know what I'm talking about. Mice are timid, even around critters their own size. You don't know funny until a mouse and a vole come around a corner, bump into each other, and sprint the fuck out of there like they had run into a cat.

    A month? Not even. Depends on how far you go. Impractical for long-range travel, best solution for early-gen transport.

    Also, I'm guessing you haven't seen a cat try to kill something that shows agression. It's pretty funny. As a rule, if they don't run off, they just ignore it. They're hunters, and they expect prey to be scared, not to come at them and prick them in the paw. Sure, this would lead to some fatalities, especially with vengeful or agressive cats, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Not as much as hawks and owls.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:36 No.16275657
    >Sorry, I meant a real library, not your local pieces of crap filled with baby's first encyclopedia.
    That assumes you:
    1. Live in a big city
    2. Don't watch it all burn down, or get quickly overrun with vermin
    3. Can get there without dying (you're in unknown and likely hostile areas while getting there/back, and even inside).

    >1)Find ammo stash
    >2)Take out propellant
    >3) Have enough gunpowder to last generations
    Not how gunpowder works for forming useful explosions, try again. Or you know, learn a bit about it before you talk.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:38 No.16275670
    Everyone thinks cats and rats are the only thing to watch out for.
    >Big Toads
    >Predatory birds
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:38 No.16275671
    Mental Skills:

    Movement Skills:

    Combat Skills:
    -Grab (both to grabbing stuff and grabbing AT stuff, like cart fur)
    -Strike Melee
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:39 No.16275681

    You guys are absolutely the worst type of people. This is obviously meant as a light hearted fun focused setting, and you come in here and try to shit it up by say "YEAH BUT WHAT YOU LIKE IS WRONG"

    If you don't like the idea or its not grimdarkdarkgrimsuperserious enough for you. Then go somewhere else.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:40 No.16275683
    I'm assuming you're the same guy as the library/guns guy. Shut up. You're a fucking idiot, and you're being a complete asshole. Out with you.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:41 No.16275690
    Nice additions.
    Should we keep the skills limited to 4 or 5 per group? I like that idea since it keeps it simple and less cluttered.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:41 No.16275691
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    >The kick will most likely kill the operator though. Stupid idea is stupid.
    The recoil will not kill anyone as long as the zipgun isn't designed by a compete retard. Knock on their ass? Maybe. Kill? Hell no. People are shooting huge rifle-shaped cannons and don't die. Most of them don't even bruise their shoulder.

    >hurr, 10cm tall people cannot do ANYTHING, not even press a button, activate emergency brake, or open a bag of pretzels
    Are your parents related to each other?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:41 No.16275693
    The one for, or against the idea? Because he's not the only one saying it's a dumb idea. (I'm one of them.)
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:42 No.16275698
    Guys, for comparison, your average Coke can is just shy of 5 inches tall.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:42 No.16275701
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:43 No.16275707
    What about also having Ranged and Block in the Combat section?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:43 No.16275710
    Yeah, and improvised weapons those are NOT.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:43 No.16275713
    I think you're missing a bit about how farming will work in the grim darkness of the tiniest millenium.

    Let's start with corn. It's a massive staple crop. It's also fucking tall. You're going to have to climb up it, somehow sever the ear, probably by hacking at it for a few hours, then haul it around.

    Large scale planting? Don't even think about it. Your only hope is to find some fertilizer and soil, and plant seeds. Lots of them. If the bugs don't eat the fruit (you may have to actively guard it), and the plant doesn't die of disease, you *might* be able to harvest food in such large quantities that you'll need a massive, dedicated preservation crew to get enough to last through winter.

    Foraging for food is much more practical - there are tons of common edible plants out there. Want some sugar? Fell a stalk of clover and get a nectar buzz. There's plenty out there that you shouldn't even need to farm, if you're not in the city.

    Also, pesticides. That anti-tick lawn turf you spread? You're dead now. Sucks to be you.

    Tamed animals might be good. Mice, being timid and docile as a rule. Heck, there's a lot of small passive animals out there you can use, if you can tame them.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:43 No.16275716
    Actually I would say these guys are the cancer:
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:44 No.16275720
    >I block the cat paw!
    >Don't... don't even bother rolling. You die.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:44 No.16275722
    yeah but this isn't after people, there are still a fuck load of people, they're just tinier.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:45 No.16275727

    Yeah, the carrion scavenger and the herbivore have suddenly developed a taste for a meal that fights back who is made of meat?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:45 No.16275730
    Yeah, but I'm guessing that's because they're all replying to posts you made.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:45 No.16275732
    But unable to maintain a house like they could before. No power, no running water, no sewage processing...

    That last part would lead to a lot of disease in any new settlements.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:47 No.16275739
    Actually not... I'm the RL farmer.

    >all me

    And you're the fucking idiot if you think a mouse is going to attack a 4-inch human.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:48 No.16275753
    If we are four inches tall and the average step is 8 inches and there are typically around 30 steps in a house staircase, a stair climb isn't gonna be much more than a BIG hill climb. Certainly not an epic adventure.

    It's only around 60 times the height of our 4 inch selves.

    Whereas the average mountain is around 22,000 times the height of a human.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:48 No.16275755
    lol, yeah there is that.
    I was thinking Block would be more for fighting raiders of other minis.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:49 No.16275758
    Hey, farmboy, why don't you use your brain and consider that people would do something different from the norm because they're in a different situation? Stop going hurr hurr I'm better than all these stupid urbies.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:49 No.16275762
    Samefag detected. GTFO cancer.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:50 No.16275769
    >hurr, 10cm tall people cannot do ANYTHING, not even press a button, activate emergency brake, or open a bag of pretzels
    Worthless insults aside, no. There's a shitton of stuff a 4 inch person can't do. Maybe they can press an emergency brake (it'll be hard), but they sure can't do it when they first shrink and have no goddamn idea what's going on. Not before they crash, anyways. Sure they can probably open a bag of pretzels, but can they get to the bag? Humans tend not to store things in the reach of pests, which humanity now is.

    None of what you said has any bearing on what I said. Are your parents hurr durr not gonna bother.

    I think 3-5 generations is about the right time frame. Time enough for people to have found their bearing and established small communities, but still an immensely dangerous world. Communities will be few and relatively far away. Life would be nothing like what it is to us now - it would be, make no mistake, post apocalyptic. But that's what makes it interesting.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:51 No.16275777

    The hill is a gentle incline where stairs are straight vertical surfaces, if you're lucky. Still, probably not a lot of effort needed. Getting to the roof now, that'll be an adventure.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:51 No.16275783
    Hey dumbass. I know this shit. You don't. That makes me, in this field, better than you. Live with it.

    Also, since when is foraging, rudimentary farming, and a harvest operation the norm? I've mostly seen speculation on hunting, haven't seen anything about domesticated mice.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:52 No.16275790
    Here is a good question:

    What would people use a currency? Would there even be currency or would it all be trading?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:52 No.16275793
    Not him, but you will do something different from the norm. You'll die.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:52 No.16275794

    Make a ladder form match sticks.


    After five generations, I imagine that there will already be a system of ladders set up. Maybe even a Lego cart system. That'd be fucking awesome.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:53 No.16275800
         File1315868027.png-(282 KB, 500x375, 0735b62a77e82bee707ead210c3932(...).png)
    282 KB

    Pic for visual comparison.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:54 No.16275804
    Imagine trying to work a vending machine...
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:54 No.16275806

    Hey RL Farmer guy, what about windowboxes and kitchenboxes for growing stuff? I mean you'd basically only be able to grow berries and herbs and tomatoes but it would be able to feed a small community.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:54 No.16275808
    currency requires stable government and banking.
    Barter will probably be the economy for a very long time.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:54 No.16275812
    (That will be the norm then.)
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:54 No.16275814
    There would probably be ladders in settlements, but what about the house across the street or down the block? That would be where the adventure is, where the danger lies.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:54 No.16275815
    I don't think a car crash at 70kmph is going to kill 4 inch human. It's the same principle as how kicking a mouse across the street isn't going to kill it but a human flying across the street probably would.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:55 No.16275816

    This is probably something that could be solved with ladders, too. Or homemade explosives.

    I am also thinking of solid fuel rockets and parachutes for insanely fun transportation.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:56 No.16275829
    >tallest mountain on earth: 8km heigh, mount everest
    >Medium humar: 1,8 meters
    >1,8 m x 22.000 = 39,6km.

    you wrong dude
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:56 No.16275830
    Note the fact that our metabolism is now in OH FUCK mode.
    Small mass:surface area ratio, no fur = lots of heat loss => Relativity huge calorie requirement
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:56 No.16275835
    >A group of adventurers enter a house that, unbeknownst to them, houses a cockroach colony.

    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:57 No.16275840

    35 mph collision from you onto the safety glass because you have no seatbelt stopping you? You'd break a few bones, minimum. Worst case is you go splat or you hook onto the steering wheel and break your back or neck.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:57 No.16275841
    Bartering seems more likely. Currency doesn't have value unless everyone agrees it has value, and that's unlikely unless it's backed up by something. Given the lack of real governments I doubt there'd be any sort of real currency.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:57 No.16275842
    We've covered that already.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:57 No.16275845
    clothes dickward- doll house clothes
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:58 No.16275855

    Spiders would be so much worse
    Or BEES.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:58 No.16275856
    Stairs wouldn't be a problem, even with vertical surfaces. Just jump. At four inches, we're all super basketball players.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:59 No.16275859
    Fun Tip: Your terminal velocity is now too low to result in injury. You can fall out of an airplane and walk away from the landing.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:59 No.16275863

    So what you're saying is that in the Grim Darkness of the Tiniest Future, only Greeks are suited to survive the darkness?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)18:59 No.16275865
    I'll just leave this here. I believe it is relevant. Especially the increase in proportionate strength. It all depends on how science or magic you want this thing, maybe you can make a compromise between the two. http://fathom.lib.uchicago.edu/2/21701757/
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:00 No.16275868
    I had a cool idea for a system, OP.

    All that class bullshit? Ditch it. At the start, you have no proficiencies, and have to journey to a distant "megacity" to gain skills from the people there, but there's a different town for each skill(i.e. a town full of medics, a town full of builders with crazy architectural shit, and such.)
    It would also be cool if you made this into a downloadable torrent file, with printable text docs and char sheets. Think about it, op.
    >> Northern Farmboi 09/12/11(Mon)19:02 No.16275875
    If you can get it down, it'd work ok. But you won't have nearly the same yield you would from plants that are put straight into the soil. We have seven foot tomato plants right now that yield pounds of fruit. You'd get maybe a 3 foot plant from a window box and a fifth as much fruit.

    If you needed to plant, the windowbox isn't useless though. The potting soil is excellent for starting plants. Putting a seed in hard-packed soil = failure. Mounding up a few inches of potting soil THEN putting your seed in = viable plant. Fertilizer is also good - in fact, in such a society, you'd most likely have people foraging for animal feces just to fertilize plants. Assuming you're not in a farm supply store. If you're in one of those, you've taken the first step towards a new empire, because you will always have food.

    Major farming issues: Keeping the area clear enough to grow. Grass chokes out plants, fast. In this case, a bunch of window planters or pots might be really really good. You'll be totally unable to plow or till soil, and you'll need to be very careful to not let weeds grow in the area to be farmed.

    Considering that no matter what, in time bare ground will become meadow, window planters or plant boxes (any kind of raised bed, really) may actually be your best shot at long-term survivability based on farming alone.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:04 No.16275892
    Themed towns seems a little of since the distance between towns is now a year travel where it used to be three hours drive
    >> Northern Farmboi 09/12/11(Mon)19:04 No.16275899
    >cockroaches attack 4-inch high animals
    The psychological barrier would be the biggest problem, not the bugs themselves, who will just ignore you.

    I have yet to see a mouse or rat killed by cockroaches.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:05 No.16275905
    Bees are very docile if not threatened.

    Yet people have yet to understand it.

    As an example: This is a shrew.
    It is 55–82 millimetres (2.2–3.2 in) long and weighs 5–12 grams (0.2–0.4 oz)
    Note the massive fur and spheroid shape? This is to make it possible to survive being a mammal at this size.
    It still needs to eat 2 to 3 times it's body mass per day to survive.

    Humans are not build this heat efficiently.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:06 No.16275913
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    mfw I forget the image
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:08 No.16275928
    Luckily, our strength-to-mass is actually pretty fucking good. With our dimensions reduced by a factor of 17-18 (I'm estimating an average human height and weight here), we'd still be able to lift about ten pounds if we really exerted ourselves.
    Shit would look like a comic book where everyone has super strength.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:08 No.16275932

    Unless each 'town' are houses next to each other in which case it's a mere 3-4 days journey down the block or through the 'forest.'

    What about dogs? I mean, they're a lot bigger than we are but we ought to smell the same and they might not be hostile to us as a result of it, so wouldn't the first generation have been able to utilize dogs as 'massive' beasts of burden or war mounts or something?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:09 No.16275936
    I meant the psychological aspect.

    I know little of cockroach behavior, but wouldn't they at least defend themselves if needed?

    Also, most of you guys are taking this idea WAY too seriously. This is meant to be a fun RPG, not a simulation.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:09 No.16275942
    Depends on how much handwavium you use for the actual shrinkage. I believe the implication was that metabolism will work the exact same way scaled as it does now, ergo normal food requirements.

    I mean, look at it this way. Are our cells smaller, or are we now made up of less cells? If smaller, then chemistry has stopped working. If less cells, we don't have enough brain to do anything. At all. That's why the Rule of Fun/Rule of Cool was created, along with Handwavium.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:10 No.16275952
    needle swords are good against bugs, but fuck jumping spiders.

    but at 4 inches only the largest in the tropical regions would be a horror show.

    as for cats and the like, getting some small screw driver spears would be awesome. you'd have to remove the handle but it could work i have some right now that would be awesome for a 4 inch person since they're light, sharp and about the right thickness.

    and yes animals are fast and shit, but hunters don't like getting injured for a meal. A man fought off a bear using only an arrow (he was hunting with a bow and arrow) he was pinned to the ground and managed to stab the bear.

    the bear unused to be stabbed back fled.

    same with a cat, nothing wants to risk its life for food if it doesn't have to.

    a match torch and a spear and about 10 other friends with similar load outs would be a good way to keep predators as bay.

    also god forbid you have a nail firmly embedded to the end of a chop stick and have a pike. that use percussion caps to startle the animal and try and scare it.

    no reason to one v one it.
    >> Ångstrom 09/12/11(Mon)19:11 No.16275955
    doesn't it eat some of the lowest-calorie food imaginable though? We could eat sugar and survival bars and take a bite oout of a multivitamin for the rest of our nutrients, right?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:11 No.16275962

    Derp, I meant 2200.

    Assuming the average mountain height is around 3500m - 4000m.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:11 No.16275963
    >we ought to smell the same and they might not be hostile to us as a result of it

    two words: hyperactive Pomeranian

    Also, try putting on a Halloween mask and see how well your dog recognizes based on scent. We would look different and they would be very cautious.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:12 No.16275968
    I don't know why people are trying for biological realism. The very premise of the setting clashes with any attempt at it. It'd be far better to run it under the tropes which are common to this sort of thing, rather than any expectation of realism. Considering the most common responses in this thread I doubt it'd have any real effect on suspension of disbelief.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:13 No.16275972
    Cool idea!

    Thematic choices: big band of survivors, and you have to play some role within this (typically, going on quests for the good of the colony). Or: small band of survivors, travelling from place to place, fleeing from cats and barely getting by?

    You say civilisation has reformed: you could belong to differing factions relating to the cause of the shrinking/what the best thing to do next would be.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:13 No.16275979

    I wasn't implying that it's a perfect system, only that it would be possible. Also, the mask thing doesn't hold water because we're smaller, not different looking. Still the same face and still the same voice, scent, all that stuff.
    >> Northern Farmboi 09/12/11(Mon)19:13 No.16275980
    Have you seen any bug defend itself from a predator? They shit their metaphorical pants and run away, or struggle until they're worn out. And we're the size of coke cans. Nothing to fear at all.

    Besides, who the fuck would hunt or attack cockroaches? There are much better food sources, and why attack something you don't need to?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:14 No.16275981
    I don't know if complex carbs would be a good idea. I mean, they're great for us at this size because we don't need the calories RIGHT THE FUCK NOW HOLY SHIT I AM HUNGRY I NEED TO EAT ANOTHER HALF POUND OF FOOD BEFORE SUNDOWN AND I ONLY WEIGH THREE FIFTHS OF A POUND. Fats and sugars would probably be our staples.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:15 No.16275995
    not to mention without human masters they will get hungry.

    especially if trapped in a house.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:15 No.16276002
    Screwdriver? Too heavy. Way too heavy.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:16 No.16276004
    cockroaches are excelent protein and armour source
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:16 No.16276008

    Grasshoppers are pretty high in protein last time I checked. You gotta cut them right so you don't eat their intestines or brains but that could be expected of a lot of animals we'd eat.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:17 No.16276017
    We'd sound a lot more high pitched to them, but convincing them otherwise could come under an animal handling skill...
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:18 No.16276027
    >implying simulation RPGs can't be fun
    We all enjoy different things. Some of us are major nerds/geeks and have a hard time with suspension of disbelief.

    Granted. Well need to find a compromise that is playable/viable while still being somewhat realistic.

    >diet consists mostly of insects, slugs, spiders, small mice and worms.
    This is true. Maybe we could try a mouse?
    www.ratfanclub.org/nutreq.html tells me that
    >A rat will typically eat about 15 g of dry food blocks a day. So a kg of diet will feed between 52 and 76 rats, depending on their size. A rat needs about 60 calories a day depending on size.
    60 kcal is about one apple.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:18 No.16276030
    Well, if people insist on bringing up the heat generation thing, I'm sure that after 5 generations of existence everybody would be wearing thick and efficient clothing. It's not like as if people have problems with instantly freezing to death in the Antartic, given the appropriate clothing.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:18 No.16276033
    Actually I can. When I was younger, I used to make homemade fireworks and the like, and I have the burn scars on my arm to prove it. Granted the recipe I used is not as effective in ballistics and the like, and doing it the proper way would probably have ended with a lot more than a few scars but my point is I'm sure there's a few people who can do it the proper way.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:18 No.16276039
    Imagine how dangerous fleas or ticks would be
    >> Northern Farmboi 09/12/11(Mon)19:19 No.16276042
    If you're worrying about armor, you're doing it wrong. This isn't DND, you shouldn't be putting yourself in situations where you need armor. You're surviving, not conquering the Basement Dungeon where dwells the Rat Lich of Doom and his Feline Minions (with a bulldog boss fight).

    Not to mention chitin is shit-tier, and something that thin won't do anything anyways.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:20 No.16276050
    If biologically accurate, the main problem would be that it's too cumbersome, unless we're talking precision screwdrivers that we could actually grip effectively. But if total handwavium then yeah, it'd be too heavy. Unless, again, it was precision screwdrivers.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:20 No.16276054
    If you have that difficult of time with suspension of disbelief, I don't see how you could overcome the central issue of how the fuck are you still functioning a human with a brain smaller than a d20.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:22 No.16276072
    Central premise.
    Same reason that I don't have an issue with magic in fantasy games, just the bit about getting hit in the face by an exploding ball of fire that barely singes me...
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:22 No.16276074
    Although a tiny D&D campaign might have its merits:
    "So you think you've min-maxed the game into submission? You (and none of your equipment) are now permanently 4 inches tall, that black dragon is still dragon sized and you've still got to complete the quest. GO!"
    >> Northern Farmboi 09/12/11(Mon)19:22 No.16276075
    Hard to catch/kill. Again, we're the size of a coke can. Small animals are our best bet.

    Can we just handwave this already and assume that everything works as it does normally? It's been beaten into the ground.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:23 No.16276083
    The main problem would be finding someone who took sulphur tablets and getting to their bathroom, or making the long trek to the nearest pharmacy or Wal-Mart. Once we run out of that, it's pretty much down to a long, dangerous voyage up the nearest dormant volcano.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:23 No.16276087
         File1315869809.jpg-(517 KB, 1185x853, 134_3431_1[1].jpg)
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    like i said the smaller ones, the ones i have with me.

    the second one in this image.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:26 No.16276124
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    Guys, guys. Seriously guys. Guys, listen. Roman Candle MLRS. On a Tonka truck.
    >> Northern Farmboi 09/12/11(Mon)19:26 No.16276127
    Or a jaunt over to the nearest gun store to raid ammo. It's mostly useless anyways - it's simply impractical. I mean, rig some explosives and somehow get the animal to step on them right as you set them off? Use a shell, rendering most calibers far too large?

    And good luck not having your small, fragile eardrums destroyed by the sound and shockwave.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:27 No.16276138
    It seems that we need to have two separate settings for the idea.
    One that only takes into account our relative size to our environment.
    And one that includes the physical implications of that change
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:27 No.16276140
    A tick could probably easily kill a sleeping man in less than an hour. A flea might be another story, but they would still be deadly. A mosquito would be a monstrosity that could kill a man easily. Imagine the horrors of trying to find water near dusk.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:28 No.16276145
    Any urban area would have a few places where elemental and compounds would be in abundant supply. It's pretty much guaranteed your local warehouse or industrial district would have anything you need. After a few generations trade links would be quickly established.

    The Romans got silk from China, so I doubt procuring supplies would be a problem in any case. It's just that if your nearest source is far away, you'll have to pay more for it.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:28 No.16276150
    >rig some explosives and somehow get the animal to step on them right as you set them off?
    >as you set them off
    >Implying they would go off on their own
    >> Northern Farmboi 09/12/11(Mon)19:29 No.16276164
    I have one of those too. It'll be horrifically unwieldy. Horribly balanced, and not really sharp enough to be worth it. Needles are a much better bet.

    Oh, and sorry about the tourettes bro. Must suck.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:30 No.16276172
    It's a good thing that with the smaller size we'll be able to see and hear them coming.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:30 No.16276178
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    Cockroaches would be your worst BOSS FIGHTS
    They just wont fucken die!!!
    >> Sozan !!QZFU2PVHFff 09/12/11(Mon)19:31 No.16276182
         File1315870264.png-(182 KB, 506x511, hmm.png)
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    What if instead of humans shrinking, everything else is made bigger such that humans are now equivalently to 4 inches on a new giant ruler. It would still look the same but humans would experience normal physics.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:31 No.16276184
    >1.8x22,000 is not the same as 1.8x22.000

    No dude, you're wrong.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:33 No.16276199
    Does everything become four times less dense, or are we crippled by the increased gravity?
    >> Northern Farmboi 09/12/11(Mon)19:34 No.16276224
    All of the above won't target something so small.

    Bad phrasing. What I meant was being able to set them off as the animal was right there. Tripwires will be far too complex - simplicity is key. Sure, given time you could engineer and pull together a tripwire and detonator (good luck there), but it's simply not practical.

    Most of you are thinking about this in the wrong way. Elemental compounds so you can make explosives? You'll starve to death first. Your tech level was just shot back to caveman-era, with a few boons like seeds, potting soil, legos, and fertilizer. Stop thinking like it's the 21st century, because it's not any more. Explosive toys are not priority, shelter, food, and killing things that want to kill you are.

    And trade networks? Don't even get me started.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:38 No.16276258
    Are you joking? What about these guys? Larger, heavily armoured, two deadly claws and no weak spots. What can you do?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:38 No.16276263
    >Your tech level was just shot back to caveman-era
    No, our infrastructure was just effectively shot back to caveman era. Our tech level is the same.
    >> OP 09/12/11(Mon)19:38 No.16276270
    this guy is closer to the spirit in wich this thread was intented. But feel free to use the general idea any other way.

    also, the reason I choose 4 inches its because thats the average size of the average toy soldier GI joe style
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:38 No.16276274
         File1315870733.jpg-(168 KB, 648x486, Giant_Enemy_Crab.jpg)
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    Pic related.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:40 No.16276293
    Mosquitoes will feed off of bird, ticks will feed off of small rodents and such.

    They will still attack us, maybe not as frequently, but they will.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:43 No.16276325
    After 5 generations I'm sure shelter and food isn't going to be much of a problem. It might be that in 5 generations a drive to retake neglected land would be a mojor force in society.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:43 No.16276329
    And no desire or need to attack something that large.

    Moot point.
    >> Sozan !!QZFU2PVHFff 09/12/11(Mon)19:43 No.16276336
    Less dense maybe? Gravity working differently? Basically, everything just becomes bigger (more molecules?) but humans and human relation to the world remains the same.

    I guess we gotta ask ourselves which would be more fun: playing super jumpy light humans that never suffer falling damage; or vanilla humans in a vast and unforgiving world?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:45 No.16276362
    So you don't want to attack a giant enemy crab for it's delicious, nutritious meat? Then take its shell and use it as a magnificent trophy/wall?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:45 No.16276368
    Taking me a little while because I have to think small, but here we go.
    1. Spark plug for some platinum, give me a heat source and some ammonia and I'll be able to whip up some nitric acid.
    2. I need booze. Preferably Everclear. And break open that thermometer for me.
    3. Be VERY careful with this shit, we don't have the industrial base to make this more stable.
    4. Spring, pin, wire, other pin.
    5. Now we play the waiting game.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:45 No.16276371
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    lol, late response. This is five generations after shrinkage, so you'd figure that humans would build colonies about a 5 days walk away at most. >>16276124
    pic very much related.
    >> Northern Farmboi 09/12/11(Mon)19:47 No.16276403

    We may know these things, but it will be both pointless and futile to pass them on, and we can't use this knowledge for anything. Because of the Rule of Cool, I would disregard that fact in an actual game, but expect almost immediate degredation.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:49 No.16276429
    What we need are gunslingers, riding domesticated mice and wearing cowboy hats. Of course, I said gunslingers, buttheir guns would be be carried and operated like bazookas.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:53 No.16276491
    Well, all it would take would be for someone to rediscover lost knowledge, have a knowledgeable ancestor inscribe what he knows somewhere or just repurposing all the old equipment lying around. Once someone starts doing something it won't be long beofre someone else starts copying it. And if it's particulalry useful it'll spread like wildfire.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:53 No.16276493
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    stole my THUNDA!

    Also, the bullet trip mine sounds like a trap from Monster hunter. Couldn't a large group of well drilled people take down cats and such?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:55 No.16276505
    Please tell me there's instructions to make that thing somewhere.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:55 No.16276508
    >Couldn't a large group of well drilled people take down cats and such?

    Yes, it may be difficult, but yes. Some people in this thread can't grasp that.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)19:57 No.16276520
    It's probably going to be the first thing that the first generation tries once they settle down.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:00 No.16276543
         File1315872019.gif-(1.17 MB, 200x207, ಠ_ಠ.gif)
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    >don't teach people to read
    >voluntary dark age
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:01 No.16276550
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    I found it on BrickWall. Otherwise, I can't help you. So I read once of a monster hunter rpg, couldn't we look to it for some insights?

    Also, wasps are now vivisectors.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:02 No.16276563
    The real question is...How awesome would be Legions of tiny humans storming each others fortress with improvised weapons*
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:05 No.16276592
    "RC's are weaving through Front Street, sir. They seem to be...my God, sir. They have bottle rockets."
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:07 No.16276606
    "Bring out the behemot!"
    "But, Sir..."
    "Your copy me soldier?"
    "Y-yes sir"
    Giant fixed shotgun with rotating base is brough fourth
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:09 No.16276617
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    ROFLMAO! Dildo siege engines!!!!

    Captcha knows what I'm talking about: Mcrit onerbidd
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:14 No.16276659
    That would be too silly, but imagine a sexual cult forming around one.

    >The horror if someone was using a dildo when they shrank.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:15 No.16276663
    Fifth generation in, they would probably have their own words approximating the original terms.
    Remote Control Anything: Arsee. Sky Arsee, Land Arsee, Sea Arsee.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:16 No.16276667
    You know, habitation dirigibles would be quite viable at that size.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:16 No.16276674

    >tough for our size

    We weaken by the same ratio that we shrink by. Most people can only lift their own body weight and then thats a m ale centric thing. Being able to lift 500g isn't that impressive when your average rat can weigh that much and will be much bigger than you.

    People need to remember that the shit we consider pets and vermin now can cut your rather badly when you weigh anything from 3 - 100x their weight. Now imagine the same power that hurts you NOW that can be applied to someone 1/18th of the size. Everything would be deadly. Bee stings would fuck you up IMMENSELY and so would foric acid from ants and you would be prime retail for alot of parasites that are too weak to affect us now.

    You could make entire homes out of lego though and I guess a good engineer could jury rig something like a RC car to work like a normal car.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:17 No.16276680
    Wouldn't your brain shrink too, thereby making you a 4 inch tall little moron?
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:19 No.16276693
    Wouldn't humans live naturally longer lives?
    I mean, I'm pretty sure smaller dogs age better than larger dogs, so on and so forth.
    I understand that humans aren't dogs, but couldn't it be possible that some of the children that shrunk would still be alive, albeit old, during the fifth generation? Maybe even some of the older ones?

    In my next post, I'll be outlining my own ideas of a basic system that could work for this.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:19 No.16276694
    >We weaken by the same ratio that we shrink by.
    Not scientifically, but if we're going to go with that, let's handwave it.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:23 No.16276735

    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:27 No.16276775

    There would be many things wrong with our anatomy for it to work at this scale.

    We're just ignoring the reality so we can enjoy the awesome.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:28 No.16276788
    Oh I love this thread

    some thoughts:

    1) >stairs
    graplings hooks! LADERS! Make laders out of toothpics and glue/scotch tape/crazy glue

    2) >legos and how 'solid' they are
    Crazy glue + lego = you're not EVER splitting those apart. You want a quick watertight housing? done. A cart to haul around goods? done. With mindstorm stuff and enough extra batteries, you have a programable car (but it requires a computer to program)

    3) >weapons
    Someone already mentioned needles. Very good idea.
    Also, for a four inch human, a nine inch nail would make for a mean club.

    4) >versus predator animals
    most animals dont like stuff that fights back

    A lighter, some scissors, a few credit cards - cut the cars, use lighter to heat the bits so you can bend them. Now you have armor that very few animals can claw through. The swipe of a cat wont pierce a mastercard. And if you poke it just once with a needle-rapier it sure as hell wont bother trying to eat you.

    Needle-spears are also a perfectly valid option.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:29 No.16276805
         File1315873782.jpg-(2.79 MB, 2848x2136, Cress_keyboard-3_sprouting_oth(...).jpg)
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    Also, against cats then a thumb-tac minefield is nice fine too. put close enough together and crazy-glued to the floor no cat can avoid it. ...but it might be able to jump over it.

    if everything else fails, light a match and burn the fucker.

    hm... what else

    all the people talking about "small humans need more food" - for the sake of the game lets say they dont. Just scale down the volume of food they need. we're talking four inch humans, some suspension of disbelief is already required

    finally, for agriculture, there are simple simple short term solutions:

    I live in denmark, and here we commonly grow this thing called Garden cress (Lepidium sativum) - wikipedia also calls it garden pepper cress, pepper grass, pepperwort or poor man's pepper

    thing is, you 'plant' this in a bed of wool with water in it - and it takes ONE week to grow it into one inch stalks - here in denmark we cut it off with scissors and use it garnish food.

    pic related - the stuff will grow god damn everywhere. This is your new crop. enjoy it.

    >its also really good for pranks
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:32 No.16276834
    The aged Veteran looked around from atop the crumbled wall. His nail-sword hanging from his waist, as he carried his walking staff in one hand and a piece of leaf with a sketchy map on the other.
    "I'm afraid this area is way too far into the yard. How far away we are from the Tire Arch?"
    "I'd say over thirty feet sire."
    The veteran sighed. "This is barbarian lands folks. Keep your swords ready"
    "Isn't there a way around it sire?"
    The veteran pointed knowingly at the sky, or to the branches and leaves that covered most of it, providing a nice shadow. "there is no safe path for day-travel, soldier. Hawks dwell often in this area. We must stay under the trees."
    As this words left his lips, a familiar sounds of something big moving on the bushs nearby alerted the company. It came from the left, and soon the shape was clearly visible.
    "DOG!" Screamed the veteran "Assume battle positions! Form a line, form a line!"
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:39 No.16276917
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    SkillSheet for the four inch tall humans system.
    Mental: How intelligent you are.
    Streetsmart: appliable knowledge: experience, skills etc
    Booksmart: facts and information: logic, rationalization, etc
    Physical: How suited you are for survival.
    Strong: lifting ability, power
    Hardy: Endurance, toughness
    Combat: How well you can fight.
    Tactical: Split second decision making, think on your feet
    Strategic: Long term goals, well thought out plans

    Characters are given five points to use on this.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)20:40 No.16276932
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    Example skillsheet filled with a trapmaking based character in mind.
    I put two points in booksmart, hopefully that will help me in making traps by abusing my knowledge of math and physics etc.
    I put one point in both strong and hardy to help me in lifting multiple trap components, and the ability to run away to lead large game(rats) to the trap.
    I put my last point in tactical to help with split second decisions in case I am caught off guard away from my traps springy gizmos.
    >> Anonymous 09/12/11(Mon)21:10 No.16277193
    Well interesting sheet butwhat kind of dice rolls would you use? I was thinking in a d6 system whre the points are the bonus for the tests...Let's say you have a 2 point hardy character and you are holding up a diesise you got from eating fungus, you would roll 2d6+2 and you'll would need to get Xto make a successfull test.And for levelling maxing out would pe pretty easy.I like you the sheet is but we could improve it.

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