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    1.8 MB Void Quest 15 Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)18:01 No.15807704  
    A week passes as you recover, hobbling about the ship when able to keep your humanoid presence known and becoming a limitless source of crippled amusement for Ivanova during your daily training sessions. By the end of the seventh two things have become painfully (literally) apparent; One, you find that your second was clearly playing ‘for fun’ in the match before rather than ‘for keeps’ except possibly near the very end, and second that even the limited amount she says she is allowed to teach you is beyond your physical limits until you recover. Instead she suggests less demanding recreation such as logic puzzles or board games, though she confesses that she might be a bit biased as she enjoys problem solving games and mysteries a great deal herself.

    It has, however, become apparent that there is a problem of a different nature you need to solve. Several of Ketro’s science team have been unenthusiastic about their new roles in co-opted military service... none openly or vocally, but the steady decline in performance to minimum levels speaks volumes.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)18:02 No.15807715
    Added to this is the fact Dai has kept Ketro locked in the barracks under 24/7 surveillance, allowing him no contact with his team or, well, anyone but the command staff really. Reviewing Ketro’s workload, you find that Dai has been flooding the man with reams of tedious and simplistic calibration checks -- often not even for calculation, instead just re-checking work others have already done. Despite the astonishing speed Ketro works through them, though, there are always more... a limitless supply in fact since Dai often sends the same checks back two or three times for ‘continued verification’.

    Thus Ketro’s clammy silence and short, clipped answers to your general questions of his wellbeing are not entirely unexpected.

    “Come to load me up with another two hundred megabytes of basic addition?” he finally asks after giving you a general update on his health, the caustic venom in his tone easily enough to liquify your microphones had it been real.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)18:03 No.15807723
    ==Map Legend==
    Green Dotted Arrow: Current Jump
    Orange Dotted Arrow: Last Jump
    Yellow Dotted Arrow: Last minus 1 Jump
    Red Dotted Arrow: Prior jumps.
    Green dot: Current position.
    Yellow Square: Your awakening position
    Teal dotted zone: Hundred Systems Territory (Hundred Worlds Rebellion)

    ==Command Staff==
    Lieutenant Kateryna Ivanova - Executive Officer
    >Second Lieutenant Dray Parson - Intelligence Officer (Incapacitated)
    Second Lieutenant Robert Tynes - Steward
    Chun-Fan Dai - Chief Engineer
    Third Lieutenant Mardigan “Guns” Rinn - Weapons Officer
    Dr. Christof Burr - Physician

    ==Junior Officers==
    Ensign Fie - Communictions Officer
    Ensign DuBois - Staff officer
    Ensign Tremko - Staff officer
    Ensign Rao - Staff officer

    ==Persons of Note==
    Dr. Eliphim Ketro -- Civilian Scientist
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)18:04 No.15807731
    Previous Threads:

    1: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15474877/
    2: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15527576/
    3: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15547424/
    4: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15558914/
    5: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15581324/
    6: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15603188/
    7: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15626860/
    8: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15671288/
    9: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15681393/
    10: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15702140/
    11: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15725852/
    12: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15749179/
    13: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15760403/
    13-2: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15765549/
    14: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15783485/
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)18:06 No.15807749
    >even the limited amount she says she is allowed to teach you

    Ged is captain of the ship. Possible the last remnant of the entire empire.
    She's got wierd priorities. I'm not entirely sure how to deal with her.

    >she suggests less demanding recreation such as logic puzzles or board games

    We've got an entire ship's array of databanks and processing capabilities. If she manages to beat Ged at that, the ship may have not been as top of the line as everybody's been told.

    >Several of Ketro’s science team have been unenthusiastic about their new roles in co-opted military service... none openly or vocally, but the steady decline in performance to minimum levels speaks volumes.

    Show them the reports&images/vids of the former imperial worlds we've found.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)18:11 No.15807793
    Is there anything more important we can have Ketro do and still keep a close eye on him?

    As to the Civilian Science team, Do they attend the mandatory shrink meetings, or is that only for the military crew. If they don't attend, It would be a good thing to make them start doing.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)18:14 No.15807820
    "No Doctor, I'm afraid I'm here to talk to you about your team. I'm afraid that they lack your ....... enthusiasm."
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)18:15 No.15807831
    Open the cargo bay doors.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)18:21 No.15807935
    I told you putting Ketro under Dai was a bad idea. We need to change things, let Ketro do things that would actually help us. Probably let him see his team, try and figure out a project for them to work on.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)18:23 No.15807950
    >Ged is captain of the ship. Possible the last remnant of the entire empire. She's got wierd priorities. I'm not entirely sure how to deal with her.
    It's not like she is unable to teach you basic or even advanced tactics, combat, and infiltration techniques; including classified assault patterns or information from Armada Special Ops. But yes, there are times when you'll ask a question and she'll just go silent and shrug -- such as when you asked how she spoofed your sensors into sending you a false image, or exactly how fast she is able to move and perceive things. So yes, her ability to teach you what she knows is limited.

    >As to the Civilian Science team, Do they attend the mandatory shrink meetings, or is that only for the military crew. If they don't attend, It would be a good thing to make them start doing.
    Sure, but there's not a lot she can do for them. They have already pretty much all accepted it and moved on, being as they were alive as shit was going down.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)18:27 No.15807985
    Let's say something along the lines of, "No, you have discharged your responsibilities with efficiency so far, and I trust that will continue. However I feel that your time is being misspent on your current duties, do you have any suggestions about how we could make the best use of your time and talents?"

    Also after we have that little talk we should mention that a few members of his team have been having troubles integrating into their duties, and see if he has any suggestions for how to raise their moral.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)18:28 No.15808001
    Okay, thanks. At least we have a self-destruct switch for her.

    So we have to find a way to motivate the civilians again, somehow involve Ketro productively and decide what to do with Parson. Last time Ged saw him, he beat Parson up, right?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)18:41 No.15808135
    Parson is in cryo indefinitely. We but him there after we rammed him with our fists.

    Along with >>15807985 we should talk to Dai and ask him if he's satisfied with his dominance over Ketro yet, and if he is ready to integrate Ketro into doing useful and productive things for our continued survival in The Void.

    Maybe we should bring the two in for counseling or something.

    Another thing: isn't a third of our crew civilian at this point? Perhaps we should rethink our assignment as "MILITARY VESSEL OF ERRYTHING RIGHT AN PROPPA."
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)18:48 No.15808230
    >a third of our crew civilian at this point
    24 survived initial cryo. Dai was Civilian, I think. Parson is frozen.
    11 additional crew, all civilian.

    Either 11/34 or 12/34 of our current crew are civilian, depending on how you look at Dai. that's over 30% no matter which way.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:02 No.15808394
    Is tg slow today?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:04 No.15808424
    I dunno man, nobody's showin' up for VoidQuest. Maybe Night Shift will be better?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:05 No.15808437
    Didn't /tg/ throw a tantrum about the laser tag episode? I usually only read Veds post on the archives, but there seemed to be a lot of butt hurt in the last thread.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:07 No.15808465
    Someone came up with the idea to try and space our LT, and it descended into fighting.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:08 No.15808483
    Open the cargo bay door, Ged.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:08 No.15808484
    Yeah we've gotta talk to Dai about the stuff he's assigning Ketro to do or things are going to become far more volatile.

    "Doctor, say we find that a sizeable amount of the facilaties in the Sol system have survived, what would you want? Your own R&D station? Command of one of the shipyards?
    I'm really quite interested since Dai is squandering your talents far more than I would have expected him to."
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:13 No.15808546
    No idea why people got mad about the game. She effectively to a normal soldier what Ged is to a normal spaceship. I'm surprised we even managed to land a hit on her.

    And I think we've acquired an incentive to check newly discovered bases for stuff to upgrade our avatar with. Side quest: Payback.

    And we get to shurg at least once when she asks us her three questions...
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:14 No.15808560
    I have an idea.

    Get Ketro, Dai, and the medical chief together, and ask them about the Ivanova's implant, hypothetically.

    I.E. "Gentlemen, assume the rumors about High level intelligence operatives being given implants that prevent them from giving certain information of their own volition are true. How would you go about removing it?"
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)19:16 No.15808598
    "No, doctor. You have fulfilled your tasks with efficiency so far, and I trust that will continue. However I feel that your time is being misspent on your current duties, do you have any suggestions about how we could make the best use of your time and talents?”

    “Hah.” he stands, walking over to a half-filled water cooler and taking a drink before responding, “Anything but this useless tripe would be a better use of my time. But the best? Your Jumpdrive is running at the redline every time you jump and Dai keeps pushing it more and more each time. Oh sure, you’re jumping farther, but sooner or later there will be a misjump and critical system feedback if you don’t have someone reel him in.”

    “Anything else?”

    He sniffs, “Well, your energy cannons are in abysmal shape. Dai took away all of my access -- including the schematics and damage resports you gave me -- so I don’t know if anything can be done or you have the tools to do it with, but I’ve been designing advanced weapon systems for over a hundred years.”

    “I see. Well, if you’re willing to help then perhaps you would advise me on another matter. Your team. They don’t seem to be very enthusiastic about their duties, do you have any advice?”

    “Well, fhey’re civilian scientists not military engineers. Of course they are unhappy when you are assigning them ‘duties’ rather than research. That mechanical lummox managing them likely doesn’t help either, he treats managing humans like pushing buttons on a machine.” he breaks off into a singsong voice, “‘Give persons A and B tasks C, D, and E according to their likely skillset then press execute. If it’s not done within an average or better amount of time then issue reprimands and exchange the faulty parts. If completed early and above specification grunt out a comment on how they did adequately and immediately move them to the next assignment. What could go wrong?’ Feh.”
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:20 No.15808646
    >I'm surprised we even managed to land a hit on her.
    I was at first too but:
    >One, you find that your second was clearly playing ‘for fun’ in the match before rather than ‘for keeps’
    made me say "well that's why". We were playing hardcore and she was having fun.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:23 No.15808688

    >And we get to shurg at least once when she asks us her three questions...
    wat? I thought we agreed to answer fully and honestly
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:23 No.15808697
    >Well, fhey’re civilian scientists not military engineers. Of course they are unhappy when you are assigning them ‘duties’ rather than research.

    I fuckin' got it.

    Ok. Guys. Guys listen. What if--stay with me here--what if instead of repairing our old shit, what if we got this science team to design us NEW shit.

    Hey, we need a way to grow our own food from this xenos crap. Gentlemen, how do we manufacture all these critical parts?

    We've got an alien civilization pretty much *right here* willing to work for us. They have raw resources up the ass.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:25 No.15808724
    Lets let him take a look at one of our broken energy canons, with some oversight of course. Does he know anything about shielding? I know we probably dont have the tools for it, but worth a shot asking anyways.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:26 No.15808734
    Best idea I've heard all thread.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:26 No.15808742

    Now, given that at the moment all he's doing is wasting food and power, we have a choice. Either let him out, or put him in cryo.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:27 No.15808771
    Dont we currently have enough food to last a year?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:28 No.15808773
    Dude's definitely a snake, but that doesn't mean he's entirely wrong about Dai either.
    Just means we have to keep him in a secure box with some holes in the lid. Give him some interesting branches to climb on, throw in a small rodent once a week to keep him interested.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:28 No.15808775
    Also this.

    Ketro's playing for power. What does he want? Does he want us to leave him here with the Xenos to form his own empire? Does he want to go back to Sol? (No, what he wants is to to do to Dai what Dai is doing to him now. He wants to be chief engineer.)

    On the other hand, we're going to need to talk to Dai about much the same thing.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:28 No.15808780
    A year minus however long it's been since we stocked up for a year.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:30 No.15808807
    These guys are high level scientists. They might know how to design things, but I'd bet money they don't have a clue how to manufacture the parts needed or build the machines needed to manufacture those parts.

    We just don't have the required infrastructure or the knowledge to build that infrastructure form scratch. Just because you can speak english perfectly doesn't mean you can write a single child's babytalk phrase in cuneiform.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:31 No.15808815
    Food processors would be first priority for them, yeah.
    New/improved drones could be a possibility depending on the kind of tools and materials on hand.
    Maybe we could get them to research new weapons and shielding with our limited resources. Call it a challenge.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:32 No.15808828
    Not really. We could have fried her brain or spaced the cargo hold, like one anon seems to have suggested.

    I still think we got more out of this than she did. We probably have a lot of time, and quite a bit of processing power to analyse the match.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:32 No.15808833
    Gee, too bad we don't have any military engineers on board.

    OH WAIT.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:34 No.15808851
    >Implying that just because you are a starship engineer you will know how to build advanced manufacturing machinery
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:35 No.15808857
    We do. The food growing stuff was just an example.

    Here's our roster, for repetition's sake:
    >1 Chemistry specialist
    >4 weapons specialists
    >1 biologist
    >2 materials specialists
    >1 reactor specialist
    >1 cyber specialist

    Why aren't the weapons specialists working on new heavy lances to mount on our hardpoints? The materials guys could be working on "how do we make all this special crap we need but don't have." Biologist might want to take a look at the different races we've encountered, just to keep him/her busy. Cyber specialist would know stuff about Ivanova's implants (don't say it's Ivanova though, duh). reactor guy is obvious. Maybe we can give him the task of designing some smaller reactors or something?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:35 No.15808859
    So, anybody wanna talk about this?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:35 No.15808860
    Gee, too bad we don't have anything like an entire race of lizard-people ready to build up a new infrastructure.

    OH WAIT.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:36 No.15808873
    Does she even want them removed? Would the implants allow her to allow them to be removed?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:38 No.15808911
    >Implying a civilization with such ridiculously low tech will know how either.
    >Implying that somehow we have the ability to design and manufacture highly advanced weaponry from scratch with the sum knowledge of 35 people.
    >Implying it doesn't already take hundreds to thousands of highly trained specialists for even modern stuff
    >implying IMPLICATIONS
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:38 No.15808912
    i'm pretty sure between the two best scientists from our time period (also, possibly best scientists ever), the science staff, and the military engineers, they could figure out how to manufacture stuff we need.

    Besides, these Xenos are multi-world space-capable. They don't have warp or singularities, but probably could make them if we told them how (i'm not saying we should).

    Void Quest
    I Mean Engineer Quest
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:40 No.15808933
    They are advanced though. They're more advanced than Earth is RIGHT NOW. Sure, it'd take some time. But we could get them started churning out cool stuff for us.

    Or at LEAST the tools to make the tools we need to make the cool stuff.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:42 No.15808961
    I second letting Ketro and his team look at a disabled Energy Canon with supervision.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:42 No.15808967
         File1312414965.png-(198 KB, 407x405, Advice Maya-more rolling.png)
    198 KB
    >I Mean Engineer Quest

    Did someone say engineer quest?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:42 No.15808969
    That's like saying because tribal africans can repair AK-47s left over from the former soviet union they will be able to design and manufacture cruise missile production facilities for a US missile destroyer.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:45 No.15808998
    Some things along these lines seem good to me.

    "Very well doctor, I am giving you the plans for the repairs to the weapons and shields, including live feeds to a select number of drones in relevant areas. Make an estimation of how we could improve our efforts, send a copy to myself and to chief Dai. After you have done that, I would like you to proceed to the jump drive in person in order to make an assessment as to how far we can go safely."

    "I am also including a dosier on the capabilities and tech level of the local xenos, assuming that we do not find anything substantially more advanced, yards like this will be what we have to work with."

    "While pure research opportunities might be limited for the time being, if you see one I would like you to inform me. I will see if we can devote the resources to it."
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)19:47 No.15809018
         File1312415231.jpg-(31 KB, 480x533, Srsly-u-guys.jpg)
    31 KB
    U guys, srsly.

    While they can probably whip up some mean concept designs (if they had an advanced research and testing lab... which they don't) what in the unholy name of YHWH makes you think that anyone on this ship knows how to make all the required equipment from smelting all the way to assembly?

    Greentext dude, though kinda a dick, is right on this one.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:51 No.15809076
    No, it's more like saying the remnants of the USSR could likely manufacture cruise missiles if the USA gave them the blueprints.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:52 No.15809088
    What about the xenos' capabilities? I recall their ships having some sort of weak shields. That means they've reverse-engineered Empire tech to the point where they can make some rudimentary stuff we need, and we could probably demand production facilities from them anyway in order to modify them as we see fit.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:52 No.15809093
    1. obtain metal
    2. place metal next to reactor
    3. retrieve metal
    4. receive molten metal
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:52 No.15809098

    If we dedicated one of our cargo bays, would we be able to convert it into some kind of manufacturing center? Could we strip parts we need from the shipyard?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:57 No.15809164
    Meh, we can still talk to Dai about modifying what the scientists are being assigned though.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)19:57 No.15809169
    >strip parts we need from the shipyard
    Why would we do that. Just get the xenos to give us what they can.

    On that note, we probably should look into replacing those shuttles we lost, and any drones (of any type).

    Oh wait we're talking to Ketro too. Ask him what he would have the science team do. In all seriousness. Tell him of the limits (few specialists, low-level manufacturing from xeno tech, etc), and if he can work around them to get this ship into better shape so we can proceed to Sol with at least half of our shields restored.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:10 No.15809329
    specifically speaking, request to inspect their manufacturing facilities to see where they are with regard to where we need them to be in order to manufacture ship parts we need.

    As far as to Ketro:

    I am also seriously advocating for asking him about his long-term goals. His own empire? His own research station? Being chief engineer?
    "Doctor Ketro, I understand you are politically driven. Your statements when being taken out of cryo have betrayed that more than any hearsay. Do you believe it fitting for your talents to attempt to dominate the political structure of 34 humans in order to further your rivalry with Doctor Dai? Are your methods so vastly different they are irreconcilable?"
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:14 No.15809374
         File1312416879.jpg-(3 KB, 126x112, 1307250041453s.jpg)
    3 KB

    Maybe we should have a sit-down with both Ketro and Dai and see if we can get them to put their millenia-old bullshit behind them.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:15 No.15809388
    If we cannot learn to trust each other, may we die in the Void.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:18 No.15809436
    I agree that we need to get Dai and Ketro to stop their centuries-long feud with each other, so that we can make use of their talents in repairing the ship and keeping it going.
    As much as I'm leery of giving Ketro more access to ship's systems, he has the qualifications to assist in the repairs, and maybe come up with jury-rig solutions to give us partial use of some of our currently offline weapons.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:19 No.15809451
    This. We should talk to both of them before we just start handing over stuff to Ketro. Dai may be biased but we know Ketro is kind of a dick. Just handing over tons of ship info and access wont just piss off Dai but potentially endanger us if Ketro does pull something crazy.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:22 No.15809475
    This seems sensible approach.

    And shit, now that we know what Ivanova is capable of we can rest easily knowing that she will make sure that no shenanigans will be done by Ketro and his team. Hell, I am starting to think that if she had put her mind into it, she could sabotage the shit out of us.

    Also, we haven't shared what we learned from PARSONS, should we have Ivanova interrogate him?
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)20:23 No.15809491
    "Very well doctor, I am giving you the plans for the repairs to the weapons and shields, including live feeds to a select number of drones in relevant areas. Make an estimation of how we could improve our efforts, send a copy to myself and to chief Dai. After you have done that, I would like you to proceed to the jump drive in person in order to make an assessment as to how far we can go safely. I would also like for you to assess the Xeno technology that we have access to and see if we can--"

    “Why don’t you just throw me in the brig? Refreeze me? Or just leave me with xenos and be done with it? I didn’t obtain six AdPhDs to be locked in a cell forever on the word of someone who hates me. Or live some kind of miserable existence without even a computer terminal’s functionality or book to keep my mind occupied and reams of children’s algebraic equations to balance. If you want me to work fine, but this,” he waves his hand around the barren room, stripped of everyting except a few changes of clothes, the water cooler, lockers, and bunks, “isn’t what you would call a working environment. If I am to be treated like a prisoner then so be it, but drop the pretense.”

    “What do you want?” you say flatly.

    “To stop being a prisoner, to be able to interact with other human beings, and to be treated with respect due to me. The skills you ask me to apply are not some children’s kindergarten playthings, they took centuries to learn and master in the finest institutions in the galaxy.” He looks up with a scowl, “And my current situation is more suited to a drop-out hive world scum than anything else.”
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:26 No.15809531

    Parsons just needs a steady stream of ass-whoopins before he eventually starts to think of us as a dysfunctional but caring father. He then starts to think of the crew of the Harbinger as his new House and we gain his allegiance forever.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:26 No.15809536
    Let him have access to entertainment, sure.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:32 No.15809596
    He does have a point.
    So, sit down Dai and Ketro in a conference room together, and hash out the new relationship and balance of power?
    Dai stays Chief Engineer, but needs to give Ketro actual work that makes use of his talents and abilities. Ketro can work with his team, as long as he recognizes that Dai has the final say on whether to implement certain changes or not.
    We need the two of them to work together to get useful work done.

    And maybe throw the scientists a bone and let them convert one of the storage bays into a science lab. Try to come up with replacement parts or tools to make the tools to make jury-rigged 'good enough' components using local xeno tech.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:33 No.15809610
    He can have what he requests
    he puts his political posturing days behind him and explains exactly from where Dai's hatred for him stems from so we can talk to Dai about needing to work together.

    While I am not willing to trust Ketro completely, Dai's done more harm in this situation than Ketro has.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:33 No.15809616

    This. Then go beat the shit out of Parsons.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:34 No.15809631
    Ketro is Angry
    Beat Up Parson

    I laughed.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:39 No.15809661
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:41 No.15809686
    It's like asking Luthor why he hates Superman.

    No matter how much he achieves, no matter how perfect his body is, no matter how much money or power he has, he is still less than nothing when compared to Superman.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:42 No.15809695
    Ironically, they BOTH feel like that.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)20:48 No.15809749
    How much authority will Dai have over Ketro? To what extent will he be able to monitor/influence/order Ketro?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:49 No.15809774
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    We'll decide that after we've heard both sides. And after we've gotten these bitches to hug it out.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:54 No.15809823
    Give him what he wants, on the condition that he and Dai start making an attempt to sort out their issues.

    Maybe something like, "I will assign you new quarters with data access and vastly increased freedom of movement. I understand that you are upset by the current circumstances, and they are vastly more restrictive than I ever envisioned them. But I need you and Dai to be able to work with one another, there are only 34 people on this ship and only one that has skills like yours, I cannot have you at each other's throats, and what has happened with your duties has made it amply clear that if I do not moderate the situation, it will become unacceptable. This has to stop. I cannot afford, and will not allow, an ancient grudge to empare the functioning of a vital department of this ship."

    Then we might want to get Dai. Say something kinda like this?
    "You two need to act like adults and work out your issues. We may very well be the last surviving remnant of the empire, I have neither the time nor the inclination to play the moderator for a 65000 year old grudge. I am sure that you both have your reasons, and you can discuss them with each other later, but now? Dr. Ketro, I have sent you your instructions, your new quarters will be ready by the end of the day. Dr. Dai, you will use Dr. Ketro as something more than a pocket calculator, return to overseeing the repairs."

    "If the situation hasn't improved before repairs are finished...so help me, I will send you to couples counseling. Dismissed."
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)20:55 No.15809835
    You can not seriously be expecting me to write out, in character, an argument that would take hours if not days and cover a litany of insults, both real and perceived, spanning centuries? I mean, I could but it would be extremely boring and involve lots of "NUH UH" "YEAH HUH"

    If you want an example just look at the anons in an average VQ thread.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:56 No.15809854
    Oh snap
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:58 No.15809862
    I suggest that we make it so that as long as he is not undertaking a task from us, Ketro continues to report to Dai, and Dai will have the option to review any work that Ketro does. But that Dai will not have control over his movements, and that when he is working independently, that it is actually independent. Imply that we would like BOTH of them to speak up if they find an issue in the other's work.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:58 No.15809864
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)20:58 No.15809870

    Let's record them arguing and then play it right back for them so that they can hear how stupid they sound.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)21:04 No.15809931
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    >If you want an example just look at the anons in an average VQ thread.

    The ship belongs to Dai, I think we're all agreed on that. If Ketro wants more freedom of movement onboard he'll have to agree to be monitored and that he wont make any attempt to mess with that monitoring. That's the bare minimum Dai will ever agree to. And he's really paranoid about what his nemisis will do inside the ship's computers.
    For that we'll still need to sit them both down and hash out an arrangement.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)21:09 No.15809972
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    Well, the whole point of putting Dai over Ketro was to harness his hatred to ensure that Ketro never gets up to shit. But Ketro's right in that there's really not much point in having him out if all Dai is going to do with his power is torture the guy.

    We don't need to talk to Ketro any further, nor do we need to talk to them together, we just need to talk to Dai and tell him to rein in the hateboner. We need to tell Dai that we didn't set him over Ketro for the purpose of shitting all over him; we do need his eyes on Ketro, but we'd like to get some work, some real work out of Ketro as well.

    We should let Ketro out of his room, and let him work on stuff that's more his speed, but that doesn't mean suspicion's off or that Dai stops being involved with his stuff. The dynamic we have going is good, we just need it toned down a little.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)21:25 No.15810125
    I'm in agreement with lengthening Ketro's leash and telling Dai to cut the sophomoric shit out. Keep Dai in oversight, keep Ketro under constant surveillance, and politely instruct Ketro that any attempt to circumvent said surveillance or act insubordinate will result in a reinstatement of cage full o' rudimentary algebra. Also ask Ketro's help with the morale of said specific research fellows who are in doldrums, and keep those said-same fellows under constant surveillance as well; may as well hand Ketro a baited hook and see if he bites. Also, tell Ketro to bring all mission-critical grievances with Dai's treatment and assignments to us directly, but remind him firmly that "Dai's being a poopy head!" is not mission-critical.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)21:29 No.15810174

    In addition, perhaps some flattery? Maybe letting the snake know that we know of and fear his poison, and thus our excess caution, may play to his sense of pride. Follow up with an assertion that NOTHING will stand in the way of the mission, and that it is his continued good behavior and loyalty (and our need of human genetic samples) that keeps us from shooting and then spacing something so innately dangerous.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)21:39 No.15810334

    In all seriousness, this:

    The ship is Dai's but he'll have to share with Ketro and stop being a poopy-head. If Dai has issues with it, remind him that Ketro's political motivations are gone. They are, quite literally, dust. If they wish to upstage each other and jokey for power, they may do so by means of performing their duties better than the other. Also, we have no time to deal with grudges. Those who are incapable of contributing constructively--or those who prevent others from doing so--shall face consequences.

    I understand Dai doesn't want him helping, but we cannot deny Ketro's abilities without basis. If we assign Ketro tasks and he is incompetent at them, then Dai's arguments will have logical basis.

    Jegus, fuckin' engineer conflicts and dick-waving.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)21:58 No.15810611
    You agree to do as Ketro says, in turn informing Dai of the new arrangement. The engineer is livid, of course, and warns of dire repercussions. Ketro is, of course, pleased and barely even complains when you have the officer’s cabin he takes up residence in wired for surveillance. Ketro’s team is assigned back to him and their productivity skyrockets, easily eclipsing their previous levels.

    Weeks pass and the men work. Dai monitors Ketro almost constantly, often bringing you complaints such as modification of power settings the engineer feels outside the strict jurisdiction placed on the scientist, altering settings Dai had already configured, meetings with his staff at odd hours, an unhealthy interest in systems he has no business being in, and allowing his scientists to use ship systems to work on side projects. Ketro’s small list of complaints at the start grows into a raging torrent as well, ranging from Dai ‘forgetting’ system access codes or parameters for days at a time to accusations of active interference and rolling back systems to inferior settings in spite.

    Eventually, the repair crew begins to polarize and more time begins to be spent monitoring the ‘other side’s’ workers and undoing ‘stupid’ changes than modifying downed systems. Slowly, ever so slowly, repairs grind to a halt and you dip over scheduled docking time; systems like the jump drive are recalibrated constantly, at one point you register a hundred and seventy-two core system readjustments within the span of three hours... on the same six parameters. The situation finally comes to a head in the rec room, a fistfight breaking out over use of the ping-pong table and requiring you to send in officers to break up the crowd of cheering and yelling enlisted.

    >Wat do?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)21:59 No.15810624
    Maybe we should actually allow Ketro a bit of genuine freedom, I understand once burned twice shy, but we haven't been burned yet. See how he uses his new freedom and throttle it back if necessary. No need to use heavy handed intimidation if we can just give him what he wants for now in order to get what we want from him.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:02 No.15810667




    Get those two assholes in our private office now. This shit needs to end, and it needs to end now.

    We have a shrink dont we? Get them in here too.

    Proceed to dress them down like the immature dickheads they are.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:02 No.15810669

    I guess it's time for a sit-down with Ketro and Dai. And you said you didn't want to type it out.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)22:05 No.15810712
    The fight was between one of the reactor specialists and an electrical engineer by the way. Just a couple enlisted not Dai and Ketro themselves.

    Just making sure that was clear.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:06 No.15810722
    This, they both deserve a dressing down for being idiots more concerned looking for a reason to insult the other than doing their own jobs. They get to go to couples counseling now.

    Tell them if they don't start working together an cut the petty faction shit that we are going to have them both removed from their positions and only brought in to consult with us so their stupid cults of personality don't get in the way.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:07 No.15810725
    For Fuck's Sake. We gave Ketro far more of a free hand at things than I think the majority wanted but whatever.
    We're going to have to have daily staff meetings to hammer out what kind of work gets done in a particular day and what sort of changes the others plan to make so that people stop fucking around.

    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:08 No.15810744

    I was speaking of Ketro and Dai, yes. It's their fault that shit started in the first place, so it's them that get the dressing down.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:09 No.15810755
    Sorry I'm late.
    Just popping in to say:
    Ram Kateryna gently.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:09 No.15810761




    If at all possible, have the good doctor act as the "good cop".
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:12 No.15810802

    I support this wholeheartedly.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:14 No.15810824

    Seriously. If we have to appoint a referee above Ketro and Dai, then so be it. If it has to be us... well, that sucks, but again, so be it. We MUST have normative function. Dai was only supposed to monitor Ketro's behavior inasmuch as it presented an immediate threat to the ship or the mission, not rub his nose in dogshit in perpetuity and hamstring any possible good he could do.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:18 No.15810888
    You know, sometimes grievances and hatred run so deep that it will never matter how much you have them sit down and talk it out the end result is always the same.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:19 No.15810911

    Posted too soon.

    Remind these chucklefucks that the mission and the ship come first, and that nothing, repeat NOTHING will stand in the way. If that means relieving Dai and appointing Ketro head of engineering, refreezing Ketro, or flaying the both of them alive as a sacrifice to the Jump Drive Gods, so be it. They want to get all schoolyard with each other, no problem so long as it doesn't impact the mission. But it has. And it WILL NOT.

    You get ONE freebie on this ship. Considering both of them have more doctorates than Ivanova has sneaky tricks, perhaps between the two of them, they may possess enough sense to learn from their mistake and CUT THIS SHIT OUT.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:23 No.15810962
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    Dammit guys, just god dammit.

    We can't babysit these two forever. An obvious way to stop them fighting is to just make them work on separate things and that's it, but then who watches Ketro?

    Gentlemen, I think we do have to have a big awkward sit-down with these two, and if they can't reconcile we're just going to have to tell Ketro to go back to his room. He can whine about injustice all he likes in there.

    I think in the long haul what we need to do is find somewhere for Ketro & team to work separate from the ship altogether. Somebody talked many, many threads back about setting up a base somewhere; why not make Team Ket and a contingent of drones do it?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:26 No.15811022

    So we can come back to find Ketro in control of his own sector of space? Hell fucking no. Has the fact that he is a tratorous, back-stabbing viper not sunken in yet?

    Him and Dai just need to hate-fuck eachother and get it over with.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:27 No.15811046
    Can all the scientists/engineers be there?

    I'm kind of imagining getting both groups to stand at attention in an area of the ship that can fit them all, Dai and Ketro at the head of each.

    Get mad at the two superdoctors. Remind them that the ENTIRE FUCKING REASON we are docked at an IMPERIAL SHIPYARD CO-OPTED BY XENOS is because humanity couldn't WORK THE FUCK TOGETHER.

    If they want to compete and wave their dicks in each others' faces, they can either enter into the laser tag competitions, or they can both have a fighter drone to each faction, and can work on souping those bitches up for racing (not shooting).
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:32 No.15811109
    We may need to (in addition to dressing both sides of the conflict down) assign specific systems to both teams, since they seem to be completely incapable of working with each other due to Dai's and Ketro's cults of personality.

    If things get really bad, suggest that, as Dai was the designer for this ship, Ketro might need to take some time to cool down... either in the brig or in Cryo.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:32 No.15811110
    >strand Ketro and his team at a base
    Well, there's the 2 systems we pulled from the xeno's datanets that are said to have still-active Ophidian defense systems; we could leave them there if the indigenous food turns out to be human compatible.
    But I would still prefer to try to get them to work together if possible, before we go with such a drastic option.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)22:33 No.15811135
    Guys, really, what's the plan here? Call them into the office and yell at them is all that I can see so far. Let's take that to the next step, shall we?

    >Call them in and yell
    >Both of them blame the other
    >Both probably feel justified in their actions

    Come on, work through it. THINK. PLAN. What is your course of action here?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:35 No.15811154

    Have the shrink there to help. After that...we order them to get along or they both get shitcanned.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:35 No.15811155
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    >flaying the both of them alive as a sacrifice to the Jump Drive Gods
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:39 No.15811214

    We need to strand their asses on a secluded planet where they can both overcome each others differances and learn to coexist peacefully.

    Or we just space the fuckers.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:42 No.15811278
    I think yelling is a terrible way to go about this. We should approach the situation, and the two doctors, as a disappointed father. Admonish both of them, in private, and impress upon them the serious-ness of our situation. As the last of humanity we cannot afford to bicker and fight amongst ourselves.

    If they continue to bicker than our only recourse is to change the situation, while accepting that any change will not be ideal. Ketro and his team are civilians and they need to accept that Dai and HIS team are the authority on and about our ship.

    Over-arching plan wise I think maybe;
    >> Talk to our ship shrink / consult our own captain training to see if theres a way to resolve their differences (I doubt it)
    >> Impress on the two that this is serious shit and that we cannot afford to let them indanger our safety/mission
    >> Change what projects they are assigned too and what access they recieve. Ketro and his team are civilians and so would naturally be assigned to work on things not directly linked to the ship. This would likely reduce the overall benefit we get from them but it's better than fucking our current military team of engineers.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:43 No.15811285
    Goddamn it. We have to figure out some way to work through this. Both of them are too goddamn useful to alienate or ditch. Is there no fucking way to make them put aside their petty grudges, at least for now? What do we do, hit them all with the emotion killing drugs? I mean, Dai is our bro, but obviously neither of them are thinking rationally on this matter. If we hit them with the antiemotion drugs and sit them down and tell them to think through this rationally, will they retain any conclusions they reach while on them when the drugs wear off?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:46 No.15811334

    >Call them in and yell
    >Both of them blame the other
    >Both probably feel justified in their actions

    >explain to them how their inability to see their own faults is crippling this operation
    >tell them both that their shit does, indeed, stink
    >Work out a system where Dai still keeps tabs on Ketro, but both are empowered to use their skills in the furtherance of the mission
    >both are to bring MISSION-CRITICAL grievances to a neutral third party, who will be declared final arbiter
    >Have doctor soothe any butthurt
    >General meeting of crew, Dai and Ketro front and center, talk to everyone about recent events, remind them that we're the only known remnant of humanity, state that this will not be tolerated going forward and that anyone who can't get along will be put on ice.
    >If Dai or Ketro interrupt or are snide or insubordinate, SHUT THEM THE FUCK DOWN and give them a week of scut work.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:46 No.15811339
    Vedi, can we tell by looking at the calibrations Dai is using if they cause undue stress on the reactor components like Ketro seems to indicate? Cause if that is so then maybe we should put our foot down and go with Ketros settings for safety concerns, it is really fucking hard for us to get replacement parts and we can't be risking unnecessary damage to the ones in use.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:47 No.15811371
    Both probably do feel justified in their actions, but never the less they are impeding our repairs. Ketro Still reports to Dai, him being the Chief engineer. Once Dai Assigns him a task, or we assign him a task, Dai needs to understand that all of the micro managing is impeding progress.

    Ketro needs to understand that Dai is the Chief Engineer, and that if Dai makes an ajustment, then Redoing his adjustment is going over his authority, and ketro doesnt have the authority to make that call. He may have the knowledge, but he is not Chief Engineer.

    If they refuse to compromise, then as much as i hate to say it, it would probably be better to elevate him to a position higher up on the food chain, or freeze him with parsons for all the good hell do.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:48 No.15811379

    Don't we really only have Dai's word on that? And hasn't Dai shown that he has an intense hatred of the guy?

    The guy's obviously a schemer, but that doesn't mean he's a traitor yet. Give him something important to do and might be he'll settle down some.


    The problem is that we don't know enough about engineering to be able to call bullshit on either of them reliably; if we did, we'd be doing repairs ourselves.


    Not only possible, but seems likely in this case, which would mean that our only sensible option would be to split them up.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:49 No.15811405
    >We need to strand their asses on a secluded planet where they can both overcome each others differances and learn to coexist peacefully.

    This gave me an idea. Get Ivanova, and between us we divise a way of locking down part of the ship or station in such a way that Dai and Ketro would have to work together to get out of it. Time consuming? Yes. Would it really get us anywhere in the long run? Maybe not but it'd prove a point.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:50 No.15811416
    We should probably also impress on Ketro that the only reason he is ALIVE is because Dai worked his fucking ass off to allow us to rescue them from a fucking sun.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:50 No.15811420
    This is much better than yelling at them. Lets try and push this into their heads.

    I second.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:50 No.15811424
    >Call them in and yell
    >Both of them blame the other
    >Both probably feel justified in their actions
    >Point out that their infantile and unprofessional behavior has resulted in no repairs being done.
    >Both blame each other again
    >Thump the desk with our augmented strength and threaten them that we will have Dr. Burr inject them both with emotion inhibitor drugs if they do not stop this farce.
    >Dai is Chief Engineer, his parameters and settings are those that supposed to be there. Ketro and his team will refrain from making their own adjustments without prior authorization (and Dai is to review any requests to change parameters logically and without any emotional baggage). In return, Ketro and his scientists will be allowed the freedom to work on their own projects as long as it does not affect their work output.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:54 No.15811499

    The problem is that Ketro isn't military; for him, the chain of command's always been more of a suggestion than a rule, especially if he's as politically savvy as he was made out to be. Ketro's used to having things go how he wants them to, and I get the impression he's just not going to knuckle down to anyone's authority for very long if he can help it.

    Ketro thinks he should be in charge and will never stop thinking it.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:54 No.15811505
    >Don't we really only have Dai's word on that?

    He himself said that the only reason he signed on with [FACTION ESCAPES ME] was because they had control of his research station. He's an opportunist. He's also shown himself to be a megalomaniac and contemptuous of authority through his interactions in this thread. Dai's at least partially right, but his overreaction is driven by hatred.

    >The problem is that we don't know enough about engineering to be able to call bullshit on either of them reliably; if we did, we'd be doing repairs ourselves.

    All engineering is math. Have them break it down to basic stat: you overtune engine X, Y% chance it'll blow up in our faces, baseline being Z. If they argue about numbers, get one of the research fellows to corroborate. Executive-level decision making is our bailiwick. The actual DO part is theirs.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:54 No.15811507
    throw both offenders into the brig.

    call a meeting of the whole repair crew. BOTH SIDES OF THIS SHIT.

    "Ladies and Gentlemen, we may be the last remaining humans of the Ophidian Empire. Last time I checked, there was something called compromise. Adults that disagreed would attempt to reach compromises between eachother. You WILL learn to compromise, because you are adults. Do I make myself clear?"

    Anyone that attempts to interrupt our daddy-to-children talk will be escorted to the BRIG.

    "If we find that the empire has survived, you can bicker all you want. Until then, you will all work TOGETHER or you we will all end up DEAD. UNDERSTAND?"
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:55 No.15811539
    Reassign both teams so that they are not in direct competition with each other. Tell them if they want to compete they can do drone racing (they can work on the drones, we can impose a mass limit, power limit, etc, minor details) or laser tag.

    Impress that we are disappointed in their childish behavior, and as the last known remnants of humanity they need to stop with their bickering, because inter-cation bickering is exactly what destroyed the Empire.

    Vedibere, can we consult our good doctor and his lovely assistant about using the emotion drugs to help solve this problem? It's an in-character way of asking you as GM "what would this accomplish."

    In the later weeks, get smaller teams of engineers from both sides to work on small projects together, without Dai's involvement.

    God damn, Ketro said this isn't kindergarten. Well, they sure are acting like it!
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:56 No.15811547
    We can not make thee two get along. we are going to need to side with one or the other. Now from info from previous threads it seems as if Ketro's work is excessively budget and safety conscious while Dais tends to push the limits of the available tech. In optimal situations, with the ship in full working order and backed by the Armada, Dai's methods work beautifully. However, give our current crippled-ass no-resources circumstances it seems to me that Ketro's more conservative style might be better for us until our situation improves.

    No matter who we choose we'll piss one of them of, but it's obvious that they cannot work together.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)22:57 No.15811567
    You know, I think you guys should probably go back and read Dai's profile again. I think you might be forgetting something about his rank.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:59 No.15811609
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)22:59 No.15811620
    Chun-Fan Dai, Chief Engineer and provisionally ranked 2nd Lt. Civilian. Responsible for all engineering and maintenance aboard the ship. Thin, short wiry black hair. Heavily augmented, nearly complete cyberization. Apparent age unknown, actual age 552. Chief designer of the Harbinger and hailed as one of the greatest engineers ever, insisted that he be allowed to oversee the maiden voyage. Was almost entirely responsible for rapidly reworking the jump system to enable the second random jump away from the novas. Cryo-sleep was rather less kind to his augmetics than flesh and blood, but you can observe him quickly working to correct the deterioration.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:00 No.15811625
    We need to here the pros and cons of each of their methods and then decide for ourself what will be best for the ship. If we don't order Dai to use one of Ketros suggestions then Dai is going to shut Ketro out completely.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:00 No.15811626

    This is a thought. Ivanova leading "team building exercises". Force them (and more importantly, their factions) to interact with each other or fail.


    Another good point to bring up. And Ketro's deployment of the gate network.


    Too. Fucking. Bad. He can learn to be a subordinate or he can suck ice. Dai's chief engineer. Ketro reports to Dai. If he doesn't like Dai's decisions, he can appeal to the chain of command, which is us, and we're unlikely to overrule our chief engineer on technical matters without good reason.

    And the flipside of that coin: Dai is derelict in his duty when he fails to utilize Ketro to the fullness of his abilities, and when he singles out one of his crew (Ketro) for shit work because he doesn't like him. If Dai can't be objective about Ketro's input, then perhaps he's incapable to perform as chief.

    ...which might put us in the position of promoting someone else because the primadonnas can't play nice. Gah, this sucks dong all around.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:07 No.15811771
    Dont see anything out of the ordinary about his rank. He's still the Chief engineer.

    >provisionally ranked 2nd Lt. Civilian

    So... what, his problem is that he doesnt have any training as an officer?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:08 No.15811795
    >If Dai can't be objective about Ketro's input, then perhaps he's incapable to perform as chief.

    I think it's clear that Dai can't be objective. Neither could Ketro for that matter. But I don't think we can afford to demote anyone in this situation, but what we an do is have both side submit a report on their proposed modifications and repairs and their expected results and then weigh the cost/benefit of each and choose the method ourselves.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:08 No.15811797
    He's a provisional 2nd Lt.?
    We understand he's not REALLY military, just a civilian given the rank so that the military engineering crew works smoother.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:11 No.15811849
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    How's this for a solution; assuming things go badly in talks, (which they will), we keep Dai where he is, and take Ketro off the work entirely. We then give his scientists the choice to either work under Dai or not work at all.

    If they hem and haw (which they will), we simply tell them that all this bickering is slowing down the schedule and Dai's still the chief engineer, so if they can't work together with him we'd rather they just not work at all. We don't care about their grievances with each other, we just want to get out of drydock.

    It's simple, will get us out of this dock faster and should only draw a minimum of bitching from the Ketro faction. Sure, we lose his expertise, but if it's a choice between his input and a moving ship, I'm going to pick the moving ship.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:12 No.15811870
    I don't think anyone is suggesting we put Ketro over Dai. Dai is still the boss as far as engineering goes. I'm also biased towards trusting engineers over scientists for engineering matters.

    Also, I would like to enforce military discipline on both of the offending parties. I don't actually know what this means, but presumably the ship would know.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:13 No.15811893
    Have Ketro and Dai both submit plans (with cost-benefit things etc.) to us, the shipboard EI, for approval. If the plans differ, then -we- will pick one.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:17 No.15811957

    I'm not following. He's a brevetted 2nd Lieu. Do we need to give him the equivalent of OCS?
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:19 No.15811978
    Great, we've got a Wikipedia reversion war going on. The solution is to lock the page.

    In our case, the solution is to lock everything. If either of them wants to change something, they either both have to agree or a superior officer has to agree. Superior officers are us and Ivanova.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:20 No.15812001

    This. They both need to be sanctioned for misallocation of resources, hindrance of primary mission, inability to utilize the chain of command, and conduct unbecoming.

    We should probably start with an interview of the two that ACTUALLY scrapped, see what their grievance is.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/03/11(Wed)23:20 No.15812004
    That was mainly directed at the people citing that Ketro is a civvie.

    Dai is a civvie too, he just was given a temporary military rank for the mission.
    >> Grand Republic of Ashqalon !!3DpamFWJq0C 08/03/11(Wed)23:23 No.15812034
    rolled 10, 5, 18, 11 = 44

    he's not trained to be 2nd Lt. if anything, it seems he's a civilian that happens to have that rank.

    i'm thinking divide things up: Dai gets shields and other stuff, while Kai gets engines and weapons. or assign both to specialties, with their respective teams ofcourse.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:24 No.15812053
    Best option available. We are the captain. We will choose the way we want our ship to be calibrated and repaired and then issue orders.

    It would be stupid to completely disregard Ketro. The man is a genius and he has 4 reactor specialists on his team. Also It's Dai who's more inclined to push the tech to it's limits, which means Dais methods could cause excessive wear and tear on the components that tech is made out of. And remember, every time we have to replace a part we are effectively giving ourself a small downgrade. The Harbringer had all the best stuff, and the parts we have access to now are inferior to what we have.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:24 No.15812056
    12/34 of our crew is therefore civilian (I'm not counting the frozen one)

    i support both of these

    there have also been other good suggestions that are not mutually exclusive, but rather depend on what both sides do/say.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:27 No.15812083
    >the parts we have access to now

    Damnit, that should read "the spare parts we have access to now".
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:31 No.15812146
    No no no. Just NO. We are not legitimizing the engineers splitting into two separate factions.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:34 No.15812180
    Good point. Can we ignore all the previous calls to legitimize the split?

    Anyone who thinks we should split the civvies and engineers should make their opinions known right now.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:36 No.15812226

    Enh, I understand the viewpoint. Dai seems more inclined to work with the CoC, Ketro doesn't like anyone nominally above him unless they're praising his genius breakthroughs while showering him in shovelfulls of grant money. Dai fits best with the military mindset.

    Still, his inability to use a junior and his singling out of said junior as a shit target speak broadly to his lack of military training. Perhaps he SHOULD be run through a proper OCS course and properly acquainted with why his ability to analytically assess the input of his subordinates is the difference between life and death.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:37 No.15812251
    we can use this though. it becomes a competition to see who pleases us more. then more gets done.

    and whoever wins gets placed as our most favouritest lackey.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:40 No.15812294
    potentially running both Dai and Ketro through officer training might be a good idea.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:40 No.15812296

    THIS. We need to homogenize the crew when it comes to duties and loyalties. Y'know what is the biggest stumbling block for humanity? Us and Them. In-group and out-group. Give two groups a disparate designation, they'll invent reasons to hate and look down on one another. Dehumanization follows.

    You want them to act as a coherent whole? Galvanize them against an external threat. HUMANITY IS DEAD and ALONE IN A HOSTILE UNIVERSE are good starting places. Convince them that we're all we have and that The Other would love nothing more than for us to fail, and they'll break themselves in our service.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:42 No.15812321

    A bit of a dressing down is in order there I think (although we should do it in a way that Ketro will never hear about it).

    But frankly, I still think our best option is just dismissing Ketro from the work entirely. If they can't work smoothly together, then he's more of a hindrance than a help, no matter whose fault it is or how much he knows.

    We don't have to be the ultimate paragon of justice here, let's just side with Dai so that the ship can get a move on; he is our engineer after all, Ketro's just a charity case we picked up.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:42 No.15812324
    >OP: Ketro and Dai are arguing
    >People argue about how to stop them arguing
    >6 hours later: Ketro and Dai are arguing even more
    Wow, we got more useful stuff done playing laser tag.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:43 No.15812343

    We also need to split up the two groups amongst themselves, civvies dont work with all civvies and vice versa. This will hopefully split up Ketro's "faction" while also promoting teamwork and cohesion throughout our crew.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:44 No.15812344
    These two and their teams need seperate projects. They work on their *own*, and not the others.

    We let them read the other teams changes, etc, but if they want to change it they come to US and state their case. Frivolous stuff leads to a kick in the pants.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:44 No.15812354

    Thank you, Machiavelli, but "kill the less useful and toss the body in a canal" is not an option. We have to utilize every asset at our disposal. Therefore, Ketro, Dai, and all the researchers need to work to peak potential, and all toward our goals. Needs be, we'll beat them all into working together and form one group they universally hate and fear, us. Pitting one against the other hardens the lines and creates inefficiency.

    I'd prefer that everyone loved us, but I'll do just fine with dislike and fear, if that's what it takes to get them all pulling at the harness.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:49 No.15812432

    It's just how Void Quest rolls.


    I think that would work if we had anything concrete to be scared of, but we don't really.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:55 No.15812528
    i never said kill, favour the greater. inspires both to greatness. if anything something closer to king Louis and keeping noblemen in Versailles
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:55 No.15812538
         File1312430147.jpg-(46 KB, 720x480, 1311800975966.jpg)
    46 KB
    I'm new to Void Quest, so pardon me if there's some NO YOU CAN'T JUST BECAUSE reason we're not doing it, but can we improve ourselves?

    We're supposedly an advanced post-human thing, why can't we research our own shit? I'd assume we have access to all our ship's archives, can't we use the knowledge within to enhance our own capabilities? Improving upon our own intellect and memory would yield extremely useful results over time, if you take into account that after having improved our ability to improve ourselves, we'll be able to exponentially outpace everyone else onboard in terms of sheer intelligence.

    As an added bonus, after having done so, we'll be able to begin upgrade the ship's systems ourselves, thus making Dai and Ketro completely unnecessary.

    Or maybe I'm the only one that wants to play Seed AI Quest.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:58 No.15812585
    We're a human mind in an artifical form, rather than a pure AI. We also lack the facilities, or the knowledge. We're a warship, not a floating research ship.
    >> Anonymous 08/03/11(Wed)23:59 No.15812598
    I'm not sure if we'd be able to understand the complexities of the advanced neuroscience and computer engineering that went into our becoming what we are today. We've got processing power in spades, but there's something to be said for the way our brain is structured. If we managed to work out how to improve our own brain, it'd take months for it to become useful anyways.

    Then again, a few months of wasted efforts would be completely worth the immense benefits of being able to exponentially become more intelligent.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:00 No.15812607

    We're a warship jim! Not a miracle worker!
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:02 No.15812621
    We're a human mind on a computer server somewhere. We can just over overclock the computer for a few hours and experience YEARS of academic research.

    Decades, even. I'm sure if we devoted our entire network to it, we might live out an entire century of learning new things in but a week or so.

    The psychological ramifications would be less than optimal though.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:03 No.15812633
    Go and read the archived threads.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:03 No.15812643
    No, it's just that you completely ignore the technological infrastructure required to do what you suggest.
    Also, we're a warship; there's no reason for our data archives to contain the information necessary to rebuild said technological infrastructure. Also, such information would not be stored on a warship anyway, because the Empire that produced us wouldn't want the information on how to create advanced technology to fall into enemy hands.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:05 No.15812665
    The human race, for all we know, dies with us. We are the last humans in existence. Can we really afford to stagnate technologically? Acting as a warship for decades, centuries, until finally the Xenos around us pass us by?
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)00:07 No.15812682
    Okay, assuming that sitting down doesn't work and hate to the extent they are willing to actually (shoot dead, rather than metaphorically) kill each other you are going to pick Dai, is this correct? And Ketro is reassigned to something else? Because I really am having a hard time seeing any sort of... well, not even consensus but just even anyone at all agreeing on anything here.

    Basically, let's just say (for now) that some hatreds run way too deep to ever work nicely with the other person ever again. For all the people saying try to get them to work nicely: You do that. I write that out and it's done.

    What do you do when both would watch the other one burn and throw fuel on the fire while laughing?
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:09 No.15812692
    Psychological Reconditioning.

    Forcefully, if necessary.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:09 No.15812697

    They had 64,000 years to try and had just now figured out how to work one of the heavy lasers we left behind.

    Not "rebuild from the ground up," just "figure out how to work something that they'd found intact."

    Chances are, they won't outstrip our weaponry for a long time yet.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:11 No.15812711
    We can, conceivably, live forever.

    64,000 years is NOTHING compared to infinity.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:11 No.15812714
    Dai knows this specific ship better, so in matters concerning the ship I would side with him if push comes to shove. If they can't work together, what are our options for getting Ketro something productive to do with his time in such a way that it doesn't cause a lot of strife within the crew?
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:11 No.15812717
    Do the drugs
    make them look at it logically
    they are both geniuses, can they really be this stupid?
    if all else fails we are just going to have to lock ketro up again
    better to have the scientists being minimally productive than fights breaking out in the rec room
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:12 No.15812719
    Ugh, forcing us to choose between Ketro and Dai?

    I'll take Dai and put Ketro on ice. His team can follow if they can't learn to fall in line.

    Actually, here's something more clever. Ice Dai and his crew, temporarily. Tell Ketro he's in charge. Get him to do what he can that Dai can't. Then ice Ketro and unice Dai.

    We could also put both on the emotion-drugs until they fix what they can, and then ice Ketro.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)00:12 No.15812722
    And what would this involve?
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:12 No.15812727
    If one burns, so does the other. If they can't be trusted to work toward the universal goal of human resurgence, then what fucking good are they?

    They would murder each other over pure pathetic pettiness than man up? What the flying fuck, did they rape each other's children or something? Either way, thats unhealthy and a dangerous mindset to everyone onboard.

    I don't want them to be fucking friends, but if they continue to sabotage each other, and thereby US...well, Parsons can be an example of what sabotage gets you.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:13 No.15812734

    Fuck, let Ketro have the biologist and see if they can make us a food producing method in-ship so supplies stop being a problem.

    Dai takes all the other scientists and places them where needed, preferably away from eachother.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:14 No.15812735
    One more time:

    They don't need to be friends, but the crippling of each other "just because" stops. Now.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:14 No.15812740
    Even if we could survive forever, the crew will not.

    Also, the xeno's earliest history is only a few thousand years old, much less than 60,000.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:14 No.15812742

    We pick Dai and put Ketro in his room to sulk or experiment with something that's not the ship. His scientists can sulk with him if they want or work under Dai, choice is theirs.

    Ketro's knowledge is no good to us if it can't be utilized without this level of bullshit. He'll just have to be bored until we can find something for him to do. Or he can go on ice if he wants. Shit sucks, but we got bigger fish to fry.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:15 No.15812746
    I still say we should have them both submit proposals describing what they want to do and then pick one and order them to do it.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:17 No.15812760
    If it comes down to it, yes, side with Dai because he's the one that designed the Harbinger.

    I'm tempted to go with the others and order the administration of emotion inhibitors on both Dai and Ketro in order to get them to work together, but that would probably only be a temporary solution.

    So, if we can't get them to work together, have Ketro and his team try to figure out ways to jury-rig indigenous xeno tech to act as spare parts, even if it means degraded efficiency; at least they can be manufactured and replaced.
    As for Dai, get him and the military engineers back to fixing the ship.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:17 No.15812764
    It's a shame we have no decent research facilities on the ship or we could put Ketro to work on finding us a way to remotely access and shut down the gates.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:17 No.15812768
    Exactly! When the crew dies, who will be left to maintain the ship? Man the stations?

    Nobody. Thus is it necessary we learn to do all those things on our own, BEFORE the crew dies.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:21 No.15812804
    Ask the xenos for science gear. Explain to Ketro that it is the best we can get for now, and hopefully we can find a imperial base in decent condition to replace some of it soon.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:21 No.15812808
    everyone who is saying emotion drugs remember they can cause psychosis right?
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:21 No.15812810

    I like this idea. They refuse to at least behave civilly within certain bounds, we strip them of emotions and force the issue. CLUB THEM WITH LOGIC. They must at least collaborate, for the good of us all; their personal opinions are noted, and they're perfectly welcome to put opinion in their left hand and a vac suit in their right, and weigh which one will serve them better when we KICK THEM OUT THE FUCKING AIRLOCK.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:22 No.15812816
    You guys are putting Ketro down without even knowing what his plans were. For all you know Ketro's ideas could be superior to Dai's but I guess we'll never know cause you won't even let him explain what he wants to do.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:23 No.15812835

    I think it'll be too much trouble, and again, we're not experts ourselves so we won't know when shit is wrong, which will just put us right back into this exact situation of Dai and Ketro screaming at each other while we wonder who to believe.

    We can't mediate this, they just can't work together and that's it.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:25 No.15812844

    With what frequency? As a result of what dosage? Is this a "your pecker pills might just cause heart attack" chance, or a "snorting that pure stimulant WILL detonate your heart like a grenade" chance? Can we do it in a short enough duration and in such a manner that the chances are minimized? All we want is a lasting memory for both of them that they're being unreasonable prats and that the survival of the entire human race trumps petty rivalries.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:26 No.15812855

    It's possible. It's also possible he's just a dickweasel. In the absence of certainty, I'm just going to pick the guy who has proven his loyalty and ability as Chief Engineer over the guy that hasn't.

    It doesn't matter if Ketro is right or wrong, he's a disruption that must be contained if this ship is to function.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:28 No.15812871
    I think it was something like "they will start gnawing their fingers off in time if you keep them on it for too long and this is an extreme short term solution"
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:31 No.15812896
    guys, you do NOT drug specialists doing extensive calculations, fine detail work, or doing other things that are sensitive to fuckups.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:32 No.15812906

    Then it's perfectly acceptable for one bull session where we lay both their deficiencies bare, under the watchful eye of the good Dr. Burr. This shit ends, here and now. They can snipe in private, but they'll work toward the common good in public or hang.

    At least Parsons thought he'd benefit from our downfall. Dai and Ketro will bring it about as collateral damage in their own feud.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:33 No.15812915
    The voice of reason, ladies and gentlemen.

    Quickly, let's lynch him so the trainwreck can continue. Let Dai continue. We assign Ketro his projects, or give him a list of what he can choose. Dai doesn't alter it, but can make suggestions to us. Treat Ketro a little better. Ketro can see what Dai is doing, but not alter it - he also makes suggestions to us.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)00:34 No.15812921
    >they'll work toward the common good in public or hang.
    Serious question. If you phrase it like this and one (or both) of them chooses death provided the other one goes too would you go through with it?
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:36 No.15812942
    We can't just fucking drug them. That's a stupid idea that will likely cause problems with the crew in the long run.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:37 No.15812951
    >For all you know Ketro's ideas could be superior to Dai's but I guess we'll never know cause you won't even let him explain what he wants to do
    For all we know Dai's could be superior. We really can't tell because they're both a lot better than us and there isn't an unbiased opinion we can access. Dai is a member of our crew and designer of this ship so he wins in those circumstances.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:38 No.15812959
    Vedibere also confirmed that one dosage is harmless. I was just thinking we could clear this grudge out of their heads so they could look past it for a moment? Do they have good reasons to hate each other? Yes. Should they be dragging the whole crew of the ship into it? No. Jesus, they're the smartest people in the damn galaxy, they should at least be able to hate each other quietly.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:39 No.15812973
    Which is why I keep fucking saying that we should have them both submit proposals to us detailing the work they want to do and it's effect on ship operations and then we choose one and order them to do the work that way.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)00:40 No.15812978
    >Vedibere also confirmed that one dosage is harmless
    Woah woah woah, now. Burr said there would probably not be any long-term lasting effects from one dose. You are still playing around with drugs that fundamentally alter the way a person's brain works.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:40 No.15812980

    we'd stand up and punch BOTH of them in the face, then put them in fucking time out.

    I think in the end we might have to just freeze Ketro and put one of the other scientists in charge of the rest. Dai's tendency to push shit to breaking will have to actively be tempered. If he refuses to accept that we can't risk having malfunctions cripple us and won't increase safety margins, we'll fucking freeze him too.

    This is a military vessel, this shit us unacceptable and will NOT be tolerated.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:40 No.15812982

    Holy shit

    What the fuck did they do to each other? Thats some hardcore hate right threre. Maybe we can just apprehend Ketro and implant a bomb in his head. He refuses to work with Dai then we fry him. We'd have to put the corpse in a place to make it look like an accident during repairs of course.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:41 No.15812985
    >one (or both) of them chooses death provided the other one goes too

    Never an option. You choose for yourself. Wanna go suck ice, the cryo bay's thataway. Prefer vacuum? Too bad, I need your genetic material; I'm sure Burr can end your higher brain functions.

    Also: Newton, Einstein, and all the saints, they're so far gone that they'd rather DIE than simply not OPENLY feud on important matters? What is wrong with these two? We need Ivanova and the Doc in on this one, if it's that serious. I'm leaning more and more toward putting them in a situation where they're unable to kill one another, a unified antagonist draws all their ire, and they MUST work together to overcome.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:41 No.15812986
    God, this entire quest has been like watching a plane crash in slow motion.

    Beautiful, and yet I feel compelled to try and stop it.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:42 No.15812996

    No, and that was a stupid suggestion anyway. We've put our foot down as hard as we can already on civvie scientists without even an honorary rank, and I won't have us casually killing our own, or drugging them up.

    Just send Ketro to bed and let Dai finish the repairs. Simple and easy.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:43 No.15813011
    Those are logic drugs, not Magical Everyone Gets Along And Does The Right Thing drugs.

    They might logically judge that eventually the other one will kill them so, despite the problems it will cause now, it's better to kill them first and have a chance of surviving due to being needed and possibly being irreplaceable.

    Never says that it changes their values either. It could just be that they (ketro especially) don't give a damn about dragging other people into it as long as they get what they want and logic won't have anything to do with that.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:45 No.15813025
    These are two highly educated geniuses we are talking about. They'd probably find a way to kill each other that we couldn't possibly think of.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:46 No.15813040
    This right here is a great reason not to use drugs. Forget about the drugs.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:46 No.15813044
    Fucking why.

    Are you stupid? We can't afford to waste personnel like that.

    This entire topic is a trainwreck. Just put them on different fields. Ketro likes his research, let him research, Dai can perform the fucking repairs.

    WE'RE THE GODDAMN SHIP. Manually keep them from interfering in each other's respective business.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:47 No.15813047

    How much testing has been done? What is efficacy threshold, and LD50? Does a lesser dose cause mental function to trend more toward logic, or just not work at all? There're plenty of drugs that alter fundamental brain function, but don't kill you or render you unable to brain on the long-term; caffeine and MDMA (in therapeutic doses) are perfect examples.

    (Ya done goof'd. I've done experimental work in psychogenic / disassociative drugs, including long-term impact on psychological state and cognitive skills.)
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:47 No.15813057
    Considering how much they hate each other, I wouldn't put it past one of them to cripple the ship, if it meant being able to kill the other.
    And given their legendary engineering skill and knowledge, they could probably get away with it too.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:49 No.15813073
    Any one of them does that and gets caught, they get spaced.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:51 No.15813092

    So...you're implying you've spent many years doing lots of crazy drugs?
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:51 No.15813099

    "They work how the GM/plotwriter wants them to work, fuck your experience."

    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:52 No.15813102

    Death of one kills the other, constant surveillance, armed stun weapons at the ready 24/7/365, etc. Punish even the beginnings of an attempt brutally, and channel all that energy toward the centrally hated foe.

    This is how the human psyche works. Create a strong enough Them, and even antagonists become Us. The military uses it every day. Hate somebody in Boot / Basic? You'll hate your DI / TI more.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:52 No.15813105
    And if they're not caught, we're fucked. Why don't you just stop trying to get two civilians who despise each other to work together in a military fashion.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:54 No.15813117

    Yes, both as observer and participant. Published papers and the whole nine.


    Heh, touche.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:54 No.15813119




    Dai gets repairs. he also gets the weapon specialist civvie scientists and the reactor scientist.

    Ketro gets the rest of the scientists. they research shit we tell them to research whether we have the facilities to do so or not.

    And we should still yell at both of them for being douchebags.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:55 No.15813131
    We can not afford to re direct their animosity towards us given the assets they both represent.

    Also your boot camp analogy is flawed in that recruits haven't been set in their ways for centuries.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:56 No.15813144
    and this thread started with such potential... take Ketro out of direct competition with Dai and if the fucker still wants to be an ass ice him, same with all the disgruntled civvies, we are a military ship not a diplomatic egostroking cuiseliner.

    I don't know if all of you arguing fucks actually know whats going on in this quest but we are way the fuck into the future and barely know anything about what happened in the last 64 thousand years other than some xeno scum managed to crawl onto the shores of the pond. Lets quit bickering about what to do with a group of disgruntled civilians on a military vessel and actual go to Sol and find out if there is still a military to have a vessel.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:57 No.15813145
    >Why don't you just stop trying to get two civilians who despise each other to work together in a military fashion.

    Because this is a military ship, with a concrete mission and a military hierarchy. Individual dislike for the status quo is both noted and completely disregarded. Either fall in line or get plowed the fuck over. Resistors would be shot, but we need the people, so they'll be frozen instead.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:59 No.15813164

    And I keep telling you that we won't know which one is actually better because we're not fucking engineers, making us useless in that capacity. What would be good in that capacity is an expert, but our experts are the problem in the first place.

    It's not a workable plan.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)00:59 No.15813175
    So you are advocating we ice both of them then?

    The problem with your statement is that we need their skills and they are both apparently fine with being iced or at least the level of hatred they hold for each other makes them fine with it.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:02 No.15813197

    Ketro's a civvie. So are his dudes.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:03 No.15813205
    Look, guys. If we can't come to a solution, what about asking our XO? or other officers?

    I mean, They've GOT to have opinions on this. Possibly damn good ones.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:03 No.15813206

    Which is why I'm fine with the extreme response of dosing them both with hardcore psychotropic drugs and trying to LOGIC our way out of this. With proper physician supervision.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:03 No.15813209
    So's Dai.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:04 No.15813221
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    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:12 No.15813286
    1. Take Ketro and Dai aside, tell them both that their behavior is unacceptable and will stop now, or they will both be brigged.
    2. Notify their teams that they will either get along or be brigged, or possibly fired out of the railguns if they are not important enough to warrant brig space.
    3. Force Ketro and Dai to endure therapy and team-building exercises, after which they are allowed to compete against each other in games of our own devising, possibly with their teams as well.
    4. Mix-n-match team members, force the two groups to get along by making mutual cooperation the only way to succeed.

    Keep drones on hand at all times to make sure that shit happens like it's supposed to. Make them vibrate menacingly when shit is not happening like it's supposed to.

    If all else fails, have Ivanova spank the misbehaving faggots.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:12 No.15813290
    We could tell easily, you think these two can't give us the info we need without clouding it in incomprehensible technobabble? In order to get the funding to complete the projects they did they have to have the ability to outline their ideas to people who do not have their background. And it's not about one being "better" than the other, based on what we know of them Ketro's proposal will adhere to safety margins that may seem overly cautious while Dai's will be much more liberal in order to get better output. The only question will probably be which we prefer.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:13 No.15813298
    I'm certain we could put Tesla and Edison in the same room and get more done than what Dai and Ketro are accomplishing with their grudgematch.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:13 No.15813301
    We can't afford to ice Ketro. He's too valuable. One more chance. His expertise on the repairs is valuable, but at this point it's hindering them more than it's helping them. Pull him and his team off of Dai, have him send analyze shit and research whatever the fuck, and send his reports to us. We can review them with our command staff and the possible convince Dai that there is some value or logic in them. Dai will at least listen to us instead of dismissing us outright. A stern talking to to both of them probably couldn't hurt either. I really don't understand how a few stolen patents and ideological and design differences could lead to choosing mutual death both for themselves and the rest of the crew over even trying to work together. Goddamn it, there has got to be some sort of way to convince one of them to be the bigger man and drop a goddamn 65 millennia year old grudge or at least fucking work it out or something. Can we get a psych evaluation on them from the shrink? Get some advice on this matter, try and figure out what makes them tick? Maybe have them talk to her about why they hate each other so goddamn much
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:18 No.15813362

    Seriously. Put Tesla and Edison in the same room with live wires and insulated-handle shivs, and they'd not be at-odds like these two.

    I still think we need a drastic solution.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:18 No.15813364
    >4 1/2 hrs since last update.
    >Feels bad man.

    You still alive Vedi? Or have you given up hope too?
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:19 No.15813371
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    Congrats Vedibere, between you and the players you've have created a problem that will destroy the Quest. Good luck.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:19 No.15813379

    Psychology time!

    Seriously get our psych experts on these two and see what they think.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:20 No.15813387
    >We could tell easily, you think these two can't give us the info we need without clouding it in incomprehensible technobabble?

    I think the competition will drive them to make bad decisions and we still won't know whether something is a reasonable risk when Dai says it's completely safe and Ketro says it's certain death.

    They can't play nice, they can't even play clean. We've tried multiple times in this thread already. It's not going to happen. They have to be separated.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)01:20 No.15813390
    I started playing Deus Ex about two hours in, but I'm writing again now.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:23 No.15813412
    Players won't stop arguing
    Fire up Deus Ex
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:28 No.15813446
    We don't have any psych experts.
    We have one nurse who moonlights as a therapist, but doesn't have any professional certifications or credentials as a psychiatrist.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:35 No.15813497
    As the remaining authority of the Empire, we can grant her professional certifications.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:36 No.15813508
    Yeah, we need some help on this one. Ask around.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)01:43 No.15813560

    Hey now, we'll at least make her sit through a seminar with someone talking about random bullshit for several hours BEFORE we give her a certificate of nothing.

    just like the finest surgeons do!
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)02:14 No.15813820
    we waitin on naxi, or what?
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)02:17 No.15813853
    fuck, vedibere
    too much waitin in these game threads
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)02:20 No.15813873

    Waitin' on Ved.

    He likes making long updates.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)02:21 No.15813886
    You know an EIGHT HOUR ARGUMENT doesnt help much either.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)02:32 No.15813986
    well, serious dilemmas require serious discussions
    maybe he'll give us a route out in the next post, although it seems he is intent on making us chose dai or the other guy
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)02:35 No.15814010
    Isn't Ivanova top IntelSpecOps?

    Couldn't we ask her for some help/input. I am sure that she is an excellent psychiatrist as she is a super-spy.

    We need to ask Burr for help too, I guess but Ivanova might have better ideas.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)02:46 No.15814116
    Still here guys. Trying to make this good since you waited and argued so long.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)02:48 No.15814125
    We appreciate that.
    Well, I appreciate it. Other anons are ungrateful pigfuckers.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)02:48 No.15814126
    Give them different areas to work on. Have a third party check the results.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)02:50 No.15814146

    Yer mum appreciated it more than the pig.

    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:15 No.15814349
    >we fucking handled this so poorly

    The only thing we did was ask Ketro what he wanted, and then gave it to him, but apparently both Ketro and Dai are poopy-heads and can't work together for the life of themselves, despite having numerous advanced PhDs between the two.

    That's what I got out of it. And, apparently, despite all the suggestions posted, the two are ready to literally kill themselves and each other before working together.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:27 No.15814418
    or that was the impression I got.

    If they are not quite ready to kill each other, they can work on different systems. The most reasonable suggestions were "split them up, be the final arbiter of any changes made, force them to work together slowly later on."

    if we can talk to them and make them work together, that's the best case scenario. But apparently it is not going to happen.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)03:33 No.15814451

    The two “enlisted” troublemakers you deal with by following Ivanova’s advice: time spent polishing the ship’s various heads together under threat of far more severe punishment serves as an effective message to both military engineers and civilian scientists alike.

    The two instigators, however, are more difficult.

    You sit behind your polished black oak desk, slowly drumming your fingers as you stare at the two men standing in the room. To your right is Kateryna and to your left is Kara, both having been taken aback by the vicious and uncompromising low-level war waged between the two engineers up to this point.

    “Gentlemen. I have a problem.” You take a deep breath, leaning back and steepling your fingers before continuing, “And when I have a problem that means you have a problem. That goes double for when you /are/ the problem. -- No, don’t speak yet.” you quickly preempt Ketro as he opens his mouth.

    “I will hear both your reasons, and then you will tell me why you are wrong and why you will work together from now on. Dai, you first.”

    The man’s grimace, partly twisted by the nearly complete cyberization throughout his body, head, and face, is dark. “My reasons are as they have always been. Ketro is a conniving snake who would kill a million people if it meant having his way or getting more power. I did what I did for the safety of the cre--”

    “Don’t be ridiculous, Dai, you never did anything for anyone’s /safety/ and you---”

    You slam your hand down on the desk, causing Kara to jump, and lean forward. “I said you will be silent until I tell you to talk,” you hiss, “you will have your turn to say your part without interruption soon. Continue, Dai.”
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)03:34 No.15814456
    Ketro frowns but does not speak as Dai continues, “I did what I did for the safety of the crew, to keep them from his clutches. He’ll try to control or subvert anything for his own causes, I was just preempting him. As for working with him,” he turns and glares at Ketro, “Never again.”

    “And if I order you to?” you question, but the huge man remains quiet, his arms crossed.

    You sit silent for a few moments, controlling yourself on the inside and icy calm on the surface, before nodding. “Ketro?”

    He snorts, “I was the one /actually/ trying to stop everyone here from dying, but not to some nebulous scheme. Fan’s reckless and stupid disregard for safety will destroy everything left and, while I fully admit I don’t know or much care for some of you, I am going to stop him on principle.”

    “Principle.” Dai all but spits out, but you swivel to give the man a hard look and he doesn’t continue.

    “And working with Dai?” you ask.

    Ketro gives a cold smile. “Death first, gladly.”

    Silence hangs in the room for a brief moment before Kara speaks up, “Why? Over a few patents? The Captain briefed me, I understand that you would rather not work together but we are all that is left of humanity. Surely you can see that. So why? Why do you persist in this foolishness?”

    There is a long silence. A very long silence. “Well? She asked you a question, and now I am. Tell me why. If your reasons are good enough then they should persuade me to side with you and have the other one frozen or, perhaps, executed.”

    At this both men look at you, and Dai is the first to speak, “He’s done it before, of course. Tried to kill me not once but three times. Used whatever power he could scrounge or bargain for to destroy everything I had, continued to follo--”
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)03:34 No.15814463
    “Destroy everything /you/ had!” Ketro interjects, now facing Dai rather than you and showing a feral grin. “Why don’t you tell them what /you/ destroyed Fan. Why don’t you tell them?!”

    “I did nothing, it was an accid--” Dai begins

    “NO!” Ketro screams, interrupting him, “It was your reckless /stupidity/! You /MURDERED/ my family, you stupid idiotic fool!” Ketro’s voice is now ragged, far above his normal smooth baritone that slips so easily from him and Dai raises his to match.

    “Nobody could have predicted the failure, it was a one in a million chance.” he states firmly, causing Ketro to purple.

    “I predicted it! I /TOLD/ you that very morning about the instability! And still, STILL you pushed the yields. STILL!”

    “HOLD IT!” you bellow, standing, “Where did this happen?”

    Ketro turns to you, “The Blackmaw weapons testing facility run by my former company. We spent three years there testing a high-yield singularity warhead. My wife was on the hab-station, picking up our children from the monitoring center when it happened.” he spins back to Dai, “When /you/ disregarded every protocol written! The station, the testing barge, and my FAMILY. Gone in an instant. In an INSTANT!”

    “It was a MISTAKE!” Dai finally bellows, visibly losing his cool. “We needed results for the Armada auditors, you said so yourself. I got them. I can’t bring your family back, Ketro, not now and not then. That it got away was an miscalculation. They happen, I have nothing to apologize for. /You/ were the one who murdered. Twenty thousand may have been lost in the mishap but you killed six people intentionally trying to have your revenge and then ruined the lives of millions more!”
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)03:35 No.15814471
    “Oh that?” Ketro says innocently, “It was just an accident that that particular reactor overloaded. Everyone agreed when I presented the evidence.”

    “Lies. Brazen lies. Your actions afterward would be enough to convince a million ajudicators, had you not bought them off with your stolen money.”

    “Oh yes,” Ketro’s voice becomes singsong, “the great Dai Industries, employing hundreds of thousands, I wonder what ever could have happened to it when you were receiving that wonderful new lifesaving body of yours that plunged you so far into debt?”

    “You and your lies happened, Ketro. Your manipulations and horror.”

    “YES!” Ketro exclaims, his face lighting up, “I did happen! My dear partner, how wonderful of you to leave your controlling share to me in your will. How unfortunate by the time they found your ruined husk floating in space that everything had been sold, dismantled, and either been used, laundered, or given away to charities. How tragic that your poor mother and father had to see the family business gutted because of their son’s poor mismanagement and the family name run through the mud by the millions of unemployed afterward. Why, I didn’t even need to start the riot that ripped that damn estate of theirs down brick by brick and butchered them like the dogs they were. The general hatred towards your family after the mass layoffs quite handled that itself!”

    Dai’s face twists in a rictus of hate, “You sniveling worm, you are not fit to like their feet. I should have killed you, gutted you as you played for power with your dirty money. I bet you would have killed your family yourself to get that kind of pull! I did you a favor.”
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)03:35 No.15814475
    “BASTARD!” Screams Ketro, his eyes wild and hysterical, “Do you know why I did that? /Why/ I traded my soul for favors and kissed every stinking ass in the Council? Because of YOU, Fan. You were the reason. Wasn’t it strange how all your projects kept getting cut, how funding was always /snatched/ from under you? How I was given control over so many of your patents and projects?! Oh yes, you can thank your own family’s money and your stupid recklessness for that too. Of course, I never would have been able to do it without so very /many/ budget and time overruns. I can’t thank anyone but you for that. How does it feel, knowing that you are responsible for your own life’s failure in every possible way? Maybe I should find a way to end it soon?! To put you out of your misery and keep you from destroying anything else?!”

    “You piranha.” Dai spits, both figuratively and literally as the glob of moisture lands at Ketro’s feet. “You stupid shortsighted thrice-damned incompetent. You knew the risks, you helped develop it! And then you blame me for your misfortune and ruin /my/ life. I won’t let you take that or the crew’s either.”

    A high, tinny sound reaches your ears both biological and mechanical. Charging capacitors. Dai’s arm. The cutting laser.

    “EXCELLENT! LET US END THIS!” howls Ketro, producing some sort of long, thin object from his sleeve and holding it like a dagger.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)03:36 No.15814481
    Oh /shit/. You spring into action, moving to leap over the desk and disarm the two men somehow... but Ivanova is faster.

    Your XO leaps forward, spinning into a brutal kick that connects with Ketro’s temple and floors the man before shooting over and slamming a monoblade through Dai’s main arm capacitor. Electiricty arcs through the air and across the man’s form, causing him to tumble backward with a howls, his servos twitching uselessly and melted monoblade lodged inside it.

    Over in an instant, you relax the tension and lower your food from the desk edge where you were about to bound over. Kara rises up from behind another piece of furniture off to the side where she dove for cover. And in the center of the room calmly stands Ivanova with still-smoking and slightly bubbling left arm, cooly surveying the two men’s inert forms before looking up at you, “Orders, sir?”

    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)03:38 No.15814490
    >Also, maybe now you can see why I was having headaches trying to write something in the vein of "Hey guys let's make them hug and be friends!"
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:40 No.15814503
    Stick them both in cryo. If we leave them out they're going to kill us in the process of trying to kill each other.
    Jesus Christ.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:41 No.15814508
    it's clear this isn't going to be solved.

    execute them both. they are irredeemable in the eyes of the empire.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)03:42 No.15814518
    We need a new meme.

    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:44 No.15814531

    Well that explained quite a lot. To the brigg with both of them.

    Ved, how long have you had their backstory written up?

    And I think we can all agree that Ketro is the bigger threat here. Dai made a horrible, horrible mistake but an honest mistake nonetheless and Ketro ruined his life and killed the man's family over it.

    There's no fucking way these two will ever work together. I say we should discreetly space Ketro after we harvest his DNA.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:45 No.15814546

    We still need one of them to be chief engineer and to finish repairs and what have you. Personally I'd rather that man be Dai.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:47 No.15814559
    Well, fuck.

    Before I go into it, I still stand by Dai. First of all, I can easily believe there was some pressure on a project as big as making those things. And until I hear more, I'm willing to see it as an accident. What Ketro did however, was not. Farthermore, I'm willing to think that Dai has learned his lesson in regards to safety parameters, even if he's still a llittle daring, but seriously what else can we expect? We're falling apart (or at least were) and he held us together, we needed and still need a man like that. That Ketro would go so far for revenge tells me only that he will do the same to get back at us.

    Don't risk freezing him, lest someone loyal to him thaws him out and we have a REAL problem. Straight and simple, kill him. Make it quick, make it painless. Dai is going to have to be set aside for a bit, not only for repairs but we need to make sure he's stable. And we need the whole story.

    Sure, it's not like we NEED a head engineer anyway....

    No matter how you feel or who you side with, we need one or the other to make it out of this.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:47 No.15814562
    You know, I don't quite like the sound of his miscalculations. But in this situation we can't spare any of them, really.

    Freeze? Maybe. Kill? No.
    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)03:52 No.15814593
    The general outline from the start. Some of the small details come to me while I write, which is sometimes why it takes so long as I puzzle out things and how they apply to the world at large.

    I think I even made mention of Dai's family company and how it got trashed then he built it back up at some point in the past.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:56 No.15814614
    >You know, I don't quite like the sound of his miscalculations.
    It does sound a lot like Dai was juggling flaming chainsaws with one hand and his eyes closed. Intentionally, with children running around him, to impress the armada dudes.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:59 No.15814625
    Hot DAAAAMN. You never cease to surprise Vedibere. Ketro goes to the brig and possible execution after, and only after, we eke out as much knowledge about the gates as we can. Dai will need counselling and we need to keep a close eye on him from now on, but I trust in his sincerity more than I trust in Ketro's backstabbing murderous rage.

    Afterwards, we will need to make it clear to the crew that Ketro has been imprisoned for his crimes and then give his team of scientists a choice; they can remain in cryo until we have created or found a safe haven or they can join our crew wholeheartedly, swearing into the MILITARY, with all the corresponding responsibilities and duties.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)03:59 No.15814628

    Well under us he wont be developing singularity warheads, he'll be repairing and maintaining the ship HE designed. Plus he doesnt seem as power-hungry or crazy as Ketro.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:01 No.15814639

    And hopefully the civvie scientists can get some valuable training from the crew so they dont fuck up as much in the heat of battle.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:04 No.15814663
    Get them both medical attention, then brig them both. Give them each a private bawling out in a day or so, then let Dai get back to work and leave Ketro in the brig or put him back in his barracks.

    Either way, keep him away from Dai. He can have weekly meetings with his team to keep them from being horribly depressed, but all non-commisioned civilians should be banned from certain areas of the ship now. Like engineering, for example. Ketro can be allowed to work on theoretical ideas only (though we can give him a mostly accurate list of our resources).

    If he comes up with something good, take his name off it and show it to Dai. A simple trick like that likely won't work, but what the hell.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:05 No.15814665
    Two members of the crew just had a psychotic break in front of us, they can both go to the bridge for now for their own safety. They both definitely have grievances that would prevent them from working together, but neither of them have grievances that would prevent them from working well for US. So we could choose to go with either, I would go with Dai since he should be more familiar with our ship specifically. However we do need someone to keep an eye on the safety margins in that case.

    Also, Ivanova should get herself to the doctor after we get them both locked up, I don't like the sound of "vaguely bubbling."
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:09 No.15814694
    >Comes back from a game.
    >Reads update.

    ...Good Fucking Lord........
    Well we CLEARLY cant have either of them in ANY from of close proximity. This kind of bad blood is incurable, and VERY lethal to ALL of our efforts. I wonder if we cant stand Ketro on the one planet we found back at the start and let him do just whatever the fuck he, and his team, feels like there. I mean HOLY FUCK, it seems that our crew is a COMPLETE comedy of errors. The XO is a spook with a hell of a past, our comms officer is a damn traitor and saboteur, and we managed to aquire our Chief Engineers mortal enemy. Next thing you know the Doctor is going to reveal that he a space Mengela or some shit and that our XO has tried to kill him for that or some such shit.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:09 No.15814696
    On one hand if we execute Dai and make Ketro head engineer he'll be loyal forever. He's a smart dude and even better is a smart dude that doesn't have a bit of metal for a penis. Looks like a better manager too and I assume he knows a lot of shit that went down in the empire from how political he sounds.

    On the other Dai has proven that he can save our ass several times already. If we find cloning tech that survived 60000+ years then we won't need Dai to have a functioning reproductive system. He knows this specific ship way better than Ketro and our military crew will probably like us better if we keep him over Ketro.

    I just don't know they are both pretty good choices. Throw them both in the brig now for trying to kill someone in the presence of a superior officer and we can take one of those portable cryopods and stick whoever we don't pick inside it then store them safely in the vault where nobody can get to them either for murder or to let them loose.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:10 No.15814699
    Something roughly like this sounds okay, but I don't think we can maintain any kind of working relationship with either man if the other perceives us to be against him.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:13 No.15814712

    Ketro is a snake. I trust him as far as I can throw him...sans ship powers.

    Dai has however proven himself loyal on several occasions. Him I'd trust.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:14 No.15814719
    my god shooting people sounds good right about now...

    but damn it we can't.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:16 No.15814727
    He mostly seems like a snake towards Dai though, for pretty understandable reasons. His team seems to like him well enough so he can't be that bad.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:16 No.15814730

    If we freeze him, we need to figure out a way to lock that specific cryopod the fuck down, so, say, only ourselves or the good XO can open it back up.

    I do *NOT* see executions as a viable alternative here. First, it'll make the executed man a martyr in his faction's eyes. Second, regardless of differences, he's still one of, so far, very goddamned humans left alive.

    However, it may do to remind the two of the fuckers, at some point, that they are on a goddamned warship of the glorious Ophidian armada, that we're the captain (read: god), and that we have neither the time nor the inclination for these duckshit games of theirs.

    Lastly: I side with Dai. He made a mistake under pressure to get results (which he got). Ketro's got a psychotic grudge from hell- which, frankly, in this case, is 110% un-fucking-acceptable. If he's too far gone to realize we're IT, we're the last goddamned functional bit of the empire, at least, out here, then he needs to go into the freezer for a while. If he becomes a problem THERE, then we shoot his fucking freezerpod into a sun.

    Problem fucking solved.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:16 No.15814732
    Entire crew is insane
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:20 No.15814762

    I say Freeze Ketro until we can get somewhere for him to work AWAY from Dai.

    However, we make Dai VERY aware that should any 'Accidents' happen to Ketro, he's going to get spaced.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:21 No.15814763
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    Just another day in VQ
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:22 No.15814770
    No executions. We can't afford it.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:22 No.15814776
    Still need to find a way to reconcile them.

    Get opinion from Kara, Burr and Ivanova before proceding though.

    This is hard, we can't have either of them frozen and certainly not executed.

    >(I like how I just marathoned 6th season of Futurama and kept reading their voices in Farnthsworth and that other guy he always has rivalry with)
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:24 No.15814790

    >> Vedibere !!O+eQDn0BBx8 08/04/11(Thu)04:28 No.15814815
    >Well, I'm beat and gotta get up early tomor- today.
    >Next thread Friday at 18:00, I hope
    >If not, Sat at 18:00
    >Lots of arguing and shit but hey at least you found out some pretty key details about a couple characters hope it was worth it
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:29 No.15814821

    Yeah, we are NEVER getting these two to get along.

    Dai is a Space Station 13 Scientist "I accidentally the Singularity" and Ketro is a man who will do ANYTHING for revenge.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:36 No.15814867

    Why couldn't we have some functional crew members. Even our XO doesn't trust us enough to talk about state secret of a state that ceased existing many thousand of years ago.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:38 No.15814877
    That's a hardware problem, not software.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:39 No.15814881
    Are you daft and without reading comprehension? It's not that she won't tell us, it's that she CANT tell us because intel SERIOUSLY fucked her brain with control implants and stuff to keep her from ever revealing secrets. Its not like she wants to be that way.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:41 No.15814893

    Ah, sorry. I think I missed the thread when that was said.

    My mistake.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:42 No.15814903

    Of the two, though, Ketro seems far more unhinged.

    Well, I think the obvious thing is throwing both in the brig for the moment. And making sure Dai doesn't die from the lost arm, although with how much machine he is I guess that isn't likely.

    Man, who ever thought the brig would get this full?
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:46 No.15814937
    Awaiting Parson's escape gambit with Ketro's help/
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)04:58 No.15815011
    Archived, by the by. Vote it up if you like it.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)05:26 No.15815151
    >SIncerely regretful

    I'm sorry, are you fucking retarded? The man was COMPLETELY UNAPOLOGETIC. He doesn't even RECOGNIZE that he could have fucked up. Both positions are understandable, if still utterly unacceptable, but jesus christ, NO ONE is fucking Innocent. I don't trust EITHER of them with ship systems at this point.

    They're both unforgivably insane. BOTH OF THEM.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)05:29 No.15815166
    We can't show favor to either one at this point, but goddamn. Confer with Kara, she's our Psych Expert. Which of the two is more dangerous, the man motivated by the perceived murder of his family, or the guy who flat out doesn't care if safety overrides = death.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)05:51 No.15815288
    I think that this is Vedibre's hint that if we keep Dai doing as he pleases, he is going to fuck up something due to not paying attention to safety and blowing up half of the ship killing many of the crew.
    On the other hand if we keep everything to Ketro, we might never reach our full potential.

    Perhaps make Ketro some kind of safety inspector but make it clear that if he does jerk-ass things just to spite Dai we will cut his bullshit. Same goes for Dai.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)06:20 No.15815488
    Gah, I guess we must have them accept that they were both wrong and tell it to each other... of course they would bicker who is going to do it first.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)06:38 No.15815629
    That's not going to work. They've both shown that they are quite willing to die as long as they take the other with them.
    Also, BECAUSE we're the last things left of the Ophidian Empire, neither one of them has anything left to lose except the death of their most hated enemy, which they've both shown they are quite willing to kill people for. Thousands of people, as long as they can hurt the other in some way.

    There is no way to have them co-exist. Even when the Ophidian Empire was at its height, spanning the entire galaxy, it still wasn't big enough for the two of them. And you think that the Harbinger is?
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)06:43 No.15815668
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    Their egos are too huge for that. They'll think they'll be able to get away with sabotaging the other without our noticing. When it comes to this feud, they have blinders on.
    These are two people who absolutely cannot knowingly share the same universe. Driven mad by their hate for one another, and by their pride in themselves.

    We NEED both of them. At the same time, this feud between them is going to destroy them and everyone around them.

    What we need to do is find a rock solid point of agreement between them. Something they both believe in strongly.
    If we can do that, it's possible to get them to work together. Not anywhere near easy, but doable.

    Apologies need to happen for both of them as well.

    Dai needs to admit he was reckless, and that it cost lives. Even if it wasn't intentional, even if he wasn't fully responsible, there IS blood on his hands. And look at what it drove Ketro to.

    Ketro needs to admit that killing other people in retaliation is just as bad, and that devoting his life to ruining Dai is just freaking insane.

    Both need to admit that the other has suffered enough.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)06:47 No.15815697
    One of them have to die if we're going to be keeping them so close together. It was a cold hate before, but now that it's boiled over we can't have both of them on the ship.

    Ketro will kill all of us if it means that it'll kill Dai too. The same can't be said of Dai. Dai is also a proven combat engineer and original crew member.

    I vote that we start planning on a way to kill Ketro while minimizing the effect that would have on the everyone. It's gonna be a hard task, but we gotta do it.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)07:27 No.15816016
    By the number of people arguing in favor of Dai, I can tell you guys aren't actual engineers. Here's a tip - twenty thousand dead is a much worse than six. Dai may not have intentionally caused the accident, but it occurred due to his NEGLIGENCE. As a professional engineer, it was his duty to not sign off on unsafe tasks and he failed. This is probably an alien notion to many of you, but engineers have something called professional ethics that means they have to put public safety first, before their employer's interests. The worse part is that even in retrospect he denies all responsibility and writes it off as an inevitable accident when it was clearly his fault. It wasn't something that nobody saw coming - Ketro warned him, but he ignored it.

    Dai has shown incredibly bad judgement. He needs to go. You CANNOT put somebody who knowingly puts thousands of lives at risk when pressured by corporate deadlines in charge. This is the kind of behavior that results in "accidents" like the BP Gulf Coast oil spill and Union Carbide explosion. Ketro has shown flexible morals himself, but it's more understandable since he lost his entire family and was denied justice.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)07:31 No.15816038

    These two have gone so far past logical thought with their feud that they would actually fight to the death. Peace is out of the question, old boy. At least while they're on the same ship.
    >> Starshadow 08/04/11(Thu)07:35 No.15816067
    Verdibere, props to your storytelling. I'm no longer inclined to trust either of them.

    Remember how Dai talked about the gate systems a while ago? That Ketro added too many safety systems and redundancies? This is coming from a guy who ignored safety margins and got thousands of people killed. And he did it to appease what were essentially shareholders.

    Think about this for a second. Ketro's family were on a "habitat" station, which presumably was really fucking far from the testing barge. Everyone on it was killed. DAI SURVIVED THE BLAST which means he himself retreated to a safe distance before pushing the button.

    Dai is a risk taker who does things without regard for the possible consequences. He could easily have towed the barge a few more light years into the middle of nowhere just to be on the safe side.

    And Ketro, I think its clear how much of an asshole he is. No need to elaborate.

    Frankly I don't see a solution that doesn't involve killing one or both of them. The odds of Verdibere writing a story of them shaking hands and working together are on par with him writing a story about Ivanova giving us head on the bridge.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)07:56 No.15816214
    THIS THIS THIS, fucking this.

    They're both at fault. And we can't afford to confer with either of them. Our therapist is our go-to advisor for matters of mental health, we need her conference because quite frankly, Dai is starting to sound borderline criminally negligent, and Ketro's motivations are scarcely more sound.

    We can't afford to kill either of them. Thats too much fucking knowledge lost, that we can never reacquire.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)08:35 No.15816512

    Not in the same way, though. Dai made a bad call one time. Ketro, as a result, systematically destroyed a huge company and then proceeded to, over the course of years, go to great lengths to make Dai's life as awful as he possibly could. He didn't just mess up one time, he did evil, underhanded things over and over again for decades, maybe even centuries.

    Ketro is basically a walking hate elemental. Dai might push the system a little hard, but we'll never find him in our computer core with a blowtorch.
    >> smileyguy 08/04/11(Thu)08:47 No.15816586
    We should probably have them take turns or something. At any one time there should be one of them active, the other one frozen in a safe place (say: our vault).

    We need both, but we can probably do with one at a time.
    >> Anonymous 08/04/11(Thu)09:30 No.15816892
    Unlikely to work.
    Ketro would cause a catastrophic feedback loop in any of the weapon subsystems or the reactor itself, if it meant killing Dai.
    And Dai, being the one who designed the Harbinger, knows it better than we do, and would gladly destroy it if it meant he could finally kill Ketro.

    I'm tempted to just put the both of them on ice, and show the entire crew what just happened. Show the engineers that Dai is a negligent fuck who will push the safety limits without any concern for their lives, and the scientists that Ketro is a vindictive fuck who will manipulate them and considers them expendable as long as it serves his purpose of getting revenge on Dai.

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