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  • File : 1311883295.jpg-(18 KB, 320x300, past-present-future.jpg)
    18 KB Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)16:01 No.15735503  
    >Mechanical Engineering student
    >Learn from TA he's GMing during summer break
    >We play ourselves, flung backwards in time into 1231 by god knows what
    >We struggle to use our technical prowess to reinvent the future in the past
    >The Mongols are coming in ten years

    Goddammit, four sessions in this is the best campaign ever.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)16:47 No.15735918
    >spent high school playing with a group
    >went to college
    >can't find one

    haven't played in two years now
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)16:50 No.15735949
    >spent high school playing with a group
    >went to college
    >college had a LARP/pnp roleplay group
    >looked like weirdos
    >never played with them
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)16:55 No.15736018
         File1311886553.jpg-(88 KB, 764x436, tarttottler.jpg)
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    This cosmic dance of decadence
    and withheld permissions
    twists all our arms collectively.

    But if sweetness can win,
    and it can,
    then I'll be here tomorrow,
    to high-five you yesterday, my friend.

    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)17:27 No.15736326
    >looked like weirdos

    protip: that's how everyone viewed you guys back in highschool

    that's why nobody talked to you
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)18:00 No.15736586
    >The Mongols are coming in ten years
    not exactly an imminent threat then, is it?
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)19:43 No.15737412
    Seeing as our sessions have several month-long time skips, not really.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)19:50 No.15737477
    So what've you done so far? And where?
    How did you avoid the whole "witchcraft" thing?
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)20:31 No.15737864
    We've come under the patronage of a local count and build a loom and windmill for him (had to actually design this stuff and propose methods to do it with current materials and technology for the GM to accept this). There's lots of coal easy to mine in the area (we're in Silesia), so we're taking our jabs on metallurgy (one of our group mates studies metallurgy) and possibly steam engines.

    We're pretending to be sent by Prester John and do some religious, devout posturing to not get the stake treatment.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)20:47 No.15738002
    >the advanced civilization you raise conquers the world
    >discovers there's no Prester John's kingdom anywhere
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)21:04 No.15738158
    that has to be one of the most nerdy campaign ideas out there, despite seeming innocuous

    imma steal it, care to share more?
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)21:11 No.15738216
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    That is awesome. As a engineer, this sounds like solid gold entertainment. Stirling cycle up in that bitch!

    Picture related: Analytical engine.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)21:16 No.15738261
    OP, you gotta do story time.


    This sounds amazing.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)21:56 No.15738636
    There's a lot to tell and the stories aren't too easily partitioned. I'm well willing to answer specific questions and such :)

    We were hitchhiking in the real world, got hammered and awoke with mean hangovers in an empty inn's cellar. Once we left that, we found ourselves in the mountains, looking for some roads or settlements until we found some monks. We had a crapload of problems communicating, but one of us speaks latin and Polish didn't change THAT much over the centuries so we eventually managed to communicate somewhat. At the start we refused to talk about our origins, but once we realized flaunting our witchcrafty camping equipment in front of priests was not the smartest move, we made up our Prester John story.

    The monks were carrying a messege all the way from Italy to the bishop of Kraków. We joined in on that. Befriended the monks along the way, they offered us work as scribes since we were literate. We went with that for about a month, and later learned the bishop issued a theological inquiry to the Inquisition about our existance and possible role.

    The Inquiry is still up in the air and the main thing we're worrying about right now. After getting our bearings in the era we decided to join a trader going to Bohemia as something along the lines of bodyguards (we're all tall even in the current era; even more impressive with the Middle Ages). Along the way we managed to kill some highwayman who was harassing our trader (and didn't know he had bodyguards - we separated one morning in a bit of stupidity). We found the bandit's hut later and an infant in it. Since we pretty muched orphaned it, we decided to take it along despite the trader's protests.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)21:56 No.15738641
    We halfway expected the kid to die on the road in the cold weather, but when we eventually stopped in a small keep owned by a local count it was still alive. We gave it away to some handmaidens to nurse and they were impressed with our heroics. The count heard about it from them and personally congratulated us, saying how it really takes a knight to act with honor, not some commoner trader trash, and how it's a shame we work as hirelings to such scum. He also liked the fact we killed a bandit on his lands, and was happy to relieve us of the loot "as his due". He was quite impressed by our story of being knights sent by Prester John, and we talked about him a bit about local politics, trade and such. We learned most cloth was imported at great expense from the west while the locals export lots of wool, and how the count's liege, Duke Henry got some Walloons to build a loom for him, but the work wasn't going very well.

    Then we offered we know a bit about those and could build one for him. He swore us in as vassals and sent the trader away with some commoner men-at-arms of his as compensation for taking his bodyguards.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)21:58 No.15738662
    Now, all this took just a session. Building the loom took two, it was lots of work, roleplaying arguments with smiths, foremen and such who've never so much as seen a technical drawing. We also had to go to other settlements for a while to get some stuff done for us (metal parts, mostly). At the same time as the loom we've also set up a water tower and a simple windmill to be able to do some powered stuff later (as in, the windmill powers a water pump that fills the water tower - this way we're "loading" energy, which can then be released at a constant rate). We've designed a mechanical mill to be powered by that but didn't yet have chance to test it (there wasn't a harvest in yet). So far we've tested a saw and hammer powered by our mill/water tower combo and it seems to work.

    It was pretty surprising for us to learn the spinnig wheel didn't exist yet, thread being spinned laboriously by hand and spindle, so this was our first innovation. We also built a set of apiaries after learning how expensive honey was and how it was only harvested in the wild. Some baron that's a vassal to our count seems to be pissed with us, mostly because we insulted his son at some point. They're both convinced we're practicing witchcraft.

    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:05 No.15738724

    There are Catholic princes in the Kongo, if you build a kick ass enough empire you can get your rubber via trade.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:06 No.15738731


    Need I ask: Gunpowder yet, fellow time traveler? Sulfur-charcoal-saltpeter, should be moderately easy to manufacture.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:14 No.15738792
    We've got our Chemical engineer on the job and scouted out several caves in the vicinity chock full of bat guano. He made some halfway workable powder already, but we don't really have the means, metallurgically speaking, to make cannons at the moment. We did meet some bell makers when we needed metal parts for the mill, so they might help us with that a bit later.

    Actually, our chemistry guy is trying to jump all the way to gun cotton over blackpowder. He's trying to get his hands on bat guano IRL to prove the whole process as workable to our GM :)
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:21 No.15738850
    Assuming you haven't already done so. don't forget to advance medicine. Have people wash their hands, sterilize tools, find penicillin, and make soap out of rendered fat.

    To raise funds, take a page from Hero of Alexandria, and invent the Holy Water vending machine. You put in a coin and it squirts out water that you've blessed.
    >The first vending machine was also one of his constructions, when a coin was introduced via a slot on the top of the machine, a set amount of holy water was dispensed. This was included in his list of inventions in his book, "Mechanics and Optics". When the coin was deposited, it fell upon a pan attached to a lever. The lever opened up a valve which let some water flow out. The pan continued to tilt with the weight of the coin until it fell off, at which point a counter-weight would snap the lever back up and turn off the valve.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:23 No.15738869
    >the bishop issued a theological inquiry to the Inquisition about our existance and possible role

    first session and you done goofed already
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:23 No.15738871
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    Leo Frankowski wrote a science fiction series about just that. The first book is called The Crosstime Engineer. Poland conquers the whole planet.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:24 No.15738883
    >itt engineers and scientists take on the past, blind everyone with SCIENCE!
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:27 No.15738908
    Yeah, the GM named the book as inspiration. Said the overarching plot was basically the same - Mongols are coming in ten years' time, do your worst.

    Didn't read it myself though.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:29 No.15738928
    I must do this. Pray tell, how is your TA running this? I'm guessing freeform but how is combat handled?
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:29 No.15738929
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    A bit hard to read, but a wonderful infographic.

    And despite this being a science-y thread, I'd appreciate it if captcha stopped giving me formulas.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:37 No.15739003
    She asked whether we wanted actual combat mechanics or wholly freeform combat. It's pretty rare in any case (two minor fights in four sessions), but we went with the former and use simplified Storyteller System rules, since that's what she has experience running and most of the players played at some point.

    >also I now notice I called her a "he" in the opening post
    >uh oh
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:38 No.15739021
    I'm led to believe a hot air balloon is a viable feat at that given technology level. I'm sure manned flight would hold some interesting applications.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:45 No.15739067
    A friend proposed a fine loom painted with lineseed oil, but we've yet to test it.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)22:53 No.15739132
    I am under obligation to ask for a picture of tits.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)23:03 No.15739227
    This may shock you but the GM didn't give us a picture of her tits as campaign materials, and I don't have a pair of my own.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)23:32 No.15739470
    Hero's idea might have worked for ancient greece. But making such a thing in the middle ages is like gathering firewood for your own burning
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)23:41 No.15739538

    Depends largely on the where and the who. For instance, the Seine had regular water-driven industry along it for the entirety of the Middle Ages. Collectives were incorporated in order to protect water rights from being infringed upon by those upstream, and to maintain dikes and levees; arguably, these were some of the first corporations in western history.

    It's only when someone opposed to the status quo busts out with some sort of new novelty that instant claims of HERESY! come about.
    >> Anonymous 07/28/11(Thu)23:49 No.15739612
    If I remember, silk was used to produce the first bullet proof vest. Should do wonders against arrows. Import lots of silk and look up the proper stitching that was used. Then toss some chain-mail over that. Also promote the training of longbowmen. They were some of the deadliest warrior.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)00:09 No.15739774
    It's not about technology being heresy.

    It's about giving stuff that's "holy" while not under control of the Church (also coupled with technology) being heresy.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)00:13 No.15739801
    I doubt it would be that much use against arrows actually. Also, the only source of silk at the time is China. There be Mongols there at the moment.

    We're hoping to make sheet steel efficiently and mass produce plate armor - it doesn't exist yet (pretty much chainmail all the way until late middle ages), and should be resistant to the bows Mongols used.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)00:20 No.15739863
    I don't know how big the invasion, how wide spreed it will be, or the territory, but here are some things you should plan for.

    >Plant trees
    In 10 years you can get some pretty good sized trees. A forest is a major obstruction. Slows troop movement, prevents deployment of siege engines, and if set up right, will make them walk right into the line of fire of archers.
    >Location location location
    Make sure all soldiers are familiar with the surrounding territory.
    >Hidden Places
    Build secret workshops, underground tunnels, hidden bunkers for surprise attacks
    Make sure peasants know to avoid trapped areas.
    >Holy Men
    The church is a major power. Don't be mean. In fact, get on their good side. Offer some of your amazing tech for their personal use.
    >Power to the People
    Have all the peasants trained in combat, and able to defend themselves in combat. The land owners may not like that, but its good protection.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)01:04 No.15740349
    >Actually, our chemistry guy is trying to jump all the way to gun cotton over blackpowder. He's trying to get his hands on bat guano IRL to prove the whole process as workable to our GM :)

    See this, this right here? This alone proves that you have an awesome group, one I am very jealous of.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)01:11 No.15740437
    >Game is story driven, not combat
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)01:21 No.15740527
    Yeah... I agree
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)01:47 No.15740794
    remeber at this point the vikings and native americans are the only ones who know america exists. Beat Columbus there and steal his false glory.

    Also invent cement since everyone else has forgotten how to make it.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)03:24 No.15741623
    That'd actually be a pretty amazing thing to bring to the past, cement.


    How in the hell do you make that, anyways?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)03:27 No.15741639
    Romans used concrete.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)03:28 No.15741645
    I don't know, but I'm sure that google does.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)05:55 No.15742625
    but medieval europeans didn't

    funny how that works, the "dark ages" thing
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)06:10 No.15742749
    >use simplified Storyteller System rules, since that's what she has experience running

    expect vampires at some point
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)06:18 No.15742819
    Bake limestone with clay. Grind up result. Add water to start setting. Most modern cement also includes gypsum.

    This works because the heating liberates a CO2 from the limestone. Setting is the process of adding a new carbon dioxide to reform limestone, just in a new shape.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)06:18 No.15742820
    There is only one thing you need to make you the pre-eminant superpower of the world.

    Two words.

    Blast Furnace.

    But good luck getting the resources together, and you better involve the blacksmiths before they revolt.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)06:40 No.15743005
    >good luck getting the resources together
    I don't think that's gonna be much of a problem. The OP said they're based in the Duchy of Silesia, and according to wikipedia:
    >Silesia is a resource-rich region. Bituminous and lignite coal is abundant, and a substantial manufacturing industry is present, particularly in Upper Silesia. Lower Silesia features large copper mining and processing between the cities of Legnica, Głogów, Lubin and Polkowice. Recently, the estimate of lignite reserves near Legnica has been upgraded to about 35 billion tonnes, making them some of the largest in the world. The following minerals have also been mined in Silesia: zinc, silver, cadmium, arsenic, lead, gold, methane, iron ore, limestone, marl, marble, and basalt. Historically, also uranium used to be mined.

    Seems like a location deliberately chosen by the GM for jumpstarting industrial revolutions.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)06:44 No.15743035

    Lignite is a shitty 35% Carbon coal (from lignite country in texas so I would know), but better than wood or charcoal. Bitumenous at 50% Carbon is MUCH BETTER.

    Looks like they have everything natural resource-wise

    But I was more referring to money and manpower. It would really suck if you bankrupted the local lord and it was only half done.

    What you really need is the support of the church. How to do that though....tough call.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)06:52 No.15743105
    I don't think so
    If I remember right wood is mainly Cellulose ( (C6H10O5)n ) and lignin (C9H10O2, C10H12O3, C11H14O4) no calcium in sight
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)06:57 No.15743141
    Wood ash is actually nearly 50% CaCO3.

    Note that this represents an extremely small proportion of the original wood mass.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:02 No.15743180

    Nah dude, try dropping some HCl on some natural ash. Not sure how it's created other than that there are tons of symbiotic bacterial colonies around the roots and such that that secrete a calcium cement.

    And remember the NPK for basic fertilizer right? Ca is usually common enough you don't need to add it in there but several brands use it, and not just lime to treat acidic soild.

    My geochem prof wrote papers on delta O2 values that were obtained in the regular Limestone to CO2 and shove it in the mass spec way using wood ash from forest fires.

    I know, sound bizarre, and doesn't work with charcoal, but try it on the white powdery ash.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:05 No.15743211
    oh really
    where does the calcium come from then?
    just the small amounts found in living cells?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:08 No.15743243

    Yeah. The most important stuff to a plant is Nitrogen, Calcium, Phosphorous, and Potassium. With that, sunlight and water, they can pretty much keep trucking through anything.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:09 No.15743250

    And CO2 of course but you don't really find that lacking in too many places.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:10 No.15743256
    >We're hoping to make sheet steel efficiently and mass produce plate armor
    Have you already thought of the good old Roman lorica segmentata? Might be an alternative.

    And design siege engines, Mongols were quite apt at using those themselves. And you may want to read this, the first battle in which the Mongols were beaten by using their own tactics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ain_Jalut
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:11 No.15743263
    I know its kind of in the future for you guys, but look up series from Eric Flint - 1632. It's about appalachian coal mining town of 3500 people transported to year 1632. They are more screwed - they were placed directly into middle of Thirty yyears war and right after Carnage in Magdeburg. Its nice series.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:23 No.15743372
    Bumping because it would be a crime to let this thread get all the way to page 3
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:36 No.15743463
    Wow, I'm surprised the thread racked up this many responses while I was asleep. Give me a moment to catch up and respond to any posts.

    Fifth session due this evening.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:44 No.15743524
    /tg/ - Engineering and Chemistry

    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:55 No.15743597
    Yeah, the group is great and I only knew one of the guys beforehand. The GM headhunted players from various engineering majors to make this more interesting.

    This actually pretty fascinating stuff and I'm considering taking it up as a hobby. Seeing all the engineering hurdles we solve in theory (we sat around in a campus bar a good few times already discussing how to build something, and then recounted our thinking to the GM as something that happened in-game), I'd like to go all reenactor on them, trying to build stuff with period technologies (and whatever technologies I manage to recreate using those). Obviously that's something that would make more time and effort in real life though.

    >Plant trees
    Pretty much the entire region at the time is heavily forested, with farmland being laboriously reclaimed. By chopping the thousand-years old forest down.

    >Location location location
    Well, we don't have any soldiers of our own yet, but yeah, that's what we should do.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)07:57 No.15743622
    The thing about the invasion is that the historical one went like this: knighthood gathered, got butchered in an open field battle, and then Mongols just went on to pillage and raze nearly undefended settlements. Hard to say what the Mongols would do in a protracted campaign. A big problem is it's extremely unlikely for us to obtain a mobility advantage over them - an internal combustion engine is pretty unlikely to achieve in time (or to be any good), and it's not like we can conjure up tens of thousands of horses from thin air. Also we're kind of afraid of knighthood being pissed at us trying to upset the "natural order" by arming peasants with massed anti-cavalry weapons. So we'll reinforce the knights as much as we can to placete them (plate armor and all), and try to focus on getting some mass infantry trained, with pavises, pikes and guns.

    As for the Church, right now we have a pretty good relation with the Kraków monastery we spent some time with, which is the seat of a Bishop. We're thinking of selling them on the idea of setting up a printing press there (Bishop, check this shit out: BIBLES, BIBLES EVERYWHERE), bumping literacy rates around the country somehow and starting a propaganda gazette (could well get the Church in on this by making it a weekly sermon-distribution service). We need papermaking for that though, parchment and vellum are ridiculously expensive (on that note, our GM provided us with some).
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:08 No.15743697

    >Cheap ass acid-bleached paper. Cheap ass acid-bleached paper everywhere.

    You know that's what you need to make. They're all making crazy stationary with gold leaf and you need to introduce them to cheap paper for the masses.

    Will the book last 10 generations? Hell no. But will it last 2 at 1/4 the cost of parchment and 1/10 the cost of vellum?

    You bet your sweet ass it will!
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:19 No.15743748
    We've been talking about making some steamboats on the Oder and Vistula, so that may progress to some sea exploration on some point; though nobody in our group is competent in maritime matters. Helpful is the fact the GM had us pack up for a hitchhiking trip for the first session (as in, we actually went for a trip to the mountains and had the session there), and the stuff we took actually turned out to be the stuff we had on ourselves when we time traveled (didn't know it would be so at the time). Among other stuff, we have a world map. It's pretty rudimentary since it's piggybacked onto some more local maps, but that's still far better than anything they had in the 13th century. Also of note is the fact the map we have includes a good topographical map of Silesia, INCLUDING ORE MINE LOCATIONS.

    As for the concrete talk, we already made some in the process of making our water tower and mill. Thinking of maybe setting up a prefabricate factory of reinforced fortification components at some point. For now, we're trying not to bankrupt our liege though. The textile monopoly we're pretty much setting up should get our rich patronage soon enough. We're also kind of hoping to either get some land of our own (we have our place in the feudal power structure, but are still unlanded!) or perhaps getting a higher-placed liege (Duke Henry?).
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:25 No.15743782

    Combine with a simple printing press, and you are in the money, quite literally.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:26 No.15743788
    Our metallurgist is totally fired up about making shit like that, especially since crappy wrought iron errywhere has been quite an annoying hurdle thus far. For now, we're content with having "invented" the cementation process.

    >Seems like a location deliberately chosen by the GM for jumpstarting industrial revolutions.
    The location is indeed convenient, but the choice was actually simpler than that - we're just all students (and one TA) of the Silesian University of Technology
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:29 No.15743811
    orly? and whos gonna buy that? literacy is nil
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:31 No.15743818
    The church will be very interested in cheaper bibles. Hand copying page by page is slow and inaccurate.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:31 No.15743819
    Send emissaries to this motherfucker. One-eyed king who will stand at your side in fight against Mongols. He will help you if you get him some technology for mining silver. He already has started founding cities dedicated for silver mining (one of them is called simple - Silver), if you can get him some reliable geological research and some mining techniques replicable in this time you will get rich and powerful ally.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:32 No.15743834
    >zinc, silver, cadmium, arsenic, lead, gold, methane, iron ore, limestone, marl, marble, and basalt. Historically, also uranium used to be mined.

    who the fuck is Marl and why would anyone want to mine him?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:33 No.15743843

    Nobles for one.

    And how many folks would get their hands on a Bible if they could even if they couldn't understand it?

    Man my Mom growing up went to an ancient Catholic church in Lisbon that still had all the sermons in Latin. Less than 1/4 of the people understood them.

    You don't need to be literate to want a book. It's status.

    But then once you have it...how can you not start trying to follow along in church?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:35 No.15743857

    Marl is an old term for a type of limestone with a lot of siliciclastic clay contamination. It's a "dirty" limestone.

    Masters in geology, here. Fuck if I wouldn't love a campaign like this.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:36 No.15743863
    Oh and btw I would like to at least listen to your sessions (if you are taling in English), would it be possible to record them and share it with us?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:37 No.15743876
    I am a marine expert let me join you
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:44 No.15743918
    >we're just all students (and one TA) of the Silesian University of Technology

    I'm sorry, but the only way I can picture all of you now is some sort of weird mix between Heavy and Engineer from TF2.

    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:44 No.15743921
    We're playing in Polish, sorry.

    Nice, we'll try that. We're already considering contacting Hungary's King Bela (since Hungary got really badly hit by the Mongols).

    A problem is trying not to seem like crazy heretical prophets of doom. To the locals, there's been a lull in Tatar (as they insist to call the Mongols) raids ever since Genghis Khan died, and there was certainly never anything on the scale to come. We may not get urgent proof that the we're about to be completely swarmed until the fall of Rus, and that's only gonna be a year or two before we get invaded.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:48 No.15743942
    You might not have any soldiers of your own but if you can sell your lord on doing some Ordnance Survey, that might be a pretty huge advantage. Not sure how precise maps where at that point.

    Also, would the knight's know you're arming the peasants with anti-cavalry weapons? Just talk it over with the lord and then try not to involve those who might get pissed too much. If people at that time period were able to recognise how great an advantage pikes and pavises were against cavalry then someone would've already tried using them.

    Hmm, not sure what else I can say to help. Med/surgery doesn't a good engineer make. DO introduce some evidence-based medicine or at the very least public health and infrastructure works to reduce disease and the like. I don't imagine there'd any medical proffession to improve though.
    This could make it easier introducing anti-septic procedure through, look up Ignaz Semmelweis for example. He successfully reduced childbed fever from 35% to <1% by making docs wash their hands in chlorinated lime solution between autopsy and delivering babies but doctors where so offended by the idea they had dirty hands his ideas were rejected.
    Introducing Germ Theory using Pasteur's experiment might come in handy.

    Fucking Vaccinations Everywhere
    --Smallpox is bloody easy to solve. Just get some pus from cowpox blisters, inject to the patient, hope the cowpox infection isn't too severe and then you're golden.

    Antibiotics would also be an amazing discovery as long as they were used appropriately (i.e. not overused, stimulating the growth of resistant microbes centuries in advance and crippling the field for the future). Filter some penicillin broth and then use it to save important people you need, don't widely disseminate it yet.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)08:58 No.15743987
    Our TA mains Spy, actually ;)

    >If people at that time period were able to recognise how great an advantage pikes and pavises were against cavalry then someone would've already tried using them.
    They might notice once we start to employ it though.

    I'm not really educated to comment on medical aspects and such, though chemistry guy said he could try some basic stuff. For now we've set up a still for fun and disinfection (but damn, copper is expensive). The local populace still holds onto their pagan rituals of bathing daily and we're counting in the Church not being able to stamp it out too soon.

    If we get our own land we might try to experiment on proper sanitation. Maybe some plumbing? As things are though, pipes would be ridiculously expensive.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:00 No.15743994
    Also, the bubonic plague vaccine uses cultured plague bacterium inactivated with formadehyde which doesn't look too hard to make.

    All your technological advances might bring the black death into play some years earlier so it'd be nice to stop that in it's tracks.

    A lot of other vaccines might be worth investing in as well but part of me wonders whether the consequences of introducing such advances early without the infrastructure and knowledge to roll them out properly might have very adverse side-effects (multiple-resistant strains ftw)
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:04 No.15744012
    You can go a great distance in prevention if you can prove that cats are not witch familiars. Feline rodent control can significantly harm the vector strength, but only if there are enough of them in the right places.
    >> WeeabooPete !!KadDxk6fnqZ 07/29/11(Fri)09:21 No.15744100
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    Archived to show future generations what good roleplaying looks like. I wish I could just sit in on your group, OP. It they sound like an excellent group/

    Pre-Christian iconography is always related
    >> Scotguy !XuwMz6o10k 07/29/11(Fri)09:21 No.15744103
    telephoned outposts, even just cup phones, imagine the look on you lords face when he can talk to someone a days ride away

    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:26 No.15744130
    >convincing a GM-controlled NPC to do something your way based on no objective rules whatsoever

    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:28 No.15744143
    >liked the fact we killed a bandit on his lands, and was happy to relieve us of the loot "as his due".
    oh feudalism you so crazy
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:29 No.15744150
    The whole party, including the TA, are engineers or scientists of some sort. From the thread, it seems that if they can convince the TA is it possible with what they got to work with, it flies. Sometimes even literally.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:32 No.15744172
    >if they can convince the TA is it possible
    There's your problem. GMs are malleable. That's why rulebooks exist.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:32 No.15744176
    > I don't know how words work and I can't argument my opinions
    >Engineers have no skills

    Troll, you so crazy
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:33 No.15744177
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    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:33 No.15744179

    They'll slay the party at once. There's no way to justify this tech as not witchcraft. Much learning must be provided about the nature of sound and electricity before such a device can be introduced.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:36 No.15744202
    They are purposely playing a rules light system. That was the point. As in, the reason they were using the system was because it would not be able to handle a full team of dedicated engineers using lateral thinking and knowledge to solve problems.

    If you want rules, you are more than welcome to go play Anima. I heard it has rules using rules when making your own rules.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:40 No.15744228
    How about first building a very simple prototype to convince them that it isn't witchcraft?
    Make it absolutely rudimentary with every part being visible at once (so short range).
    You might be able to get an OK if you start it cautiously.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:42 No.15744242
    witch-burning pitchwork-wielding mobs do not work that way
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:45 No.15744268
    That's why you show it the Lord first, and when he approves and spreads the word, all his bitches will follow.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:47 No.15744286
    I think we'll wait for the inquisitional investigation hanging over our heads to decree us something between "harmless" and "living instruments of God's will" before doing such stuff, just to be sure. Also, as I said - copper is expensive and I'm pretty confident laid wire wouldn't remained laid for very long.

    We were thinking of an optical telegraph though. A few towers strewn about the area, semaphores and maybe some simple telescopes to increase range.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:49 No.15744300

    After you've gotten blast furnaces up and running, consider Developing the Bessemer Steel method for use.

    It basically means Cast-steel equipment. Yes, rapidly mass-produced steel arms and armour. Also it's ludicously easy to QC the molten steel and play around with the alloy using that method.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:52 No.15744319
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    >Helpful is the fact the GM had us pack up for a hitchhiking trip for the first session (as in, we actually went for a trip to the mountains and had the session there), and the stuff we took actually turned out to be the stuff we had on ourselves when we time traveled (didn't know it would be so at the time).
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)09:55 No.15744336
    Don't forget to remind your GM that Poles never were... obscenely religious. That's why we didn't have holy wars, we could afford having multicultural society etc. We just didn't care enough to burn the infidels.
    At least that's how a history teacher once explained it to me.

    And yes, optical telegraph is a better idea. Conveying meaning to light is acceptable, using witchcraft to transport sound across great distances is not. Pratchett's work should be your inspiration on this one

    And kudos to you from a fellow engineer in Kraków ;)
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:01 No.15744363
    Send for Friar Julianus. He was entrusted to look for the origins of Magyars. He got more than he bargained for. he was back with grave news of the imminent Tatar attack. If memory serves me right, he was back by 1235 in Buda. A monk supporting your point is a strong ally.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:03 No.15744375
    Might be a tad too obscure for us. We're trying not to go too far with out of character knowledge, at least when it can't be justified with our education.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:05 No.15744383
    The population will love you.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:08 No.15744396
    Don't forget one of the simplest and oldest weapons humanity has: Fire.
    If you fill crude oil or other flammable material in clay amphoras or such and plug them up with rags then you have one of the most horrifying and effective weapons you can have at that age, and easily too. Nobody will bitch about heresy either.
    >> Scotguy !XuwMz6o10k 07/29/11(Fri)10:10 No.15744410
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    aqueducts and running sanitation (ancient rome style)
    paddle wheels
    piston pumps for short distance water movement
    hypecausts to gain favour with lords

    also train locals to fight like romans, but with pikes and bowmen in the middle
    >> Scotguy !XuwMz6o10k 07/29/11(Fri)10:15 No.15744428
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    this is also a good idea, but invent trebuchets and load them with barrels of oil/tar/other flamables
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:15 No.15744431
    OP group more or less already did:
    >we've set up a still for fun and disinfection
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:16 No.15744432
    OP, I am certainly no expert on the middle-ages, but wasn't the church adamantly AGAINST the Printing Press when it was introduced, due to making their (incredibly lucrative) scribes obselete?

    Though, I suppose if it was kept in just the hands of the church, the greedy fucks wouldn't have a problem, so never mind.

    Also... Mongol bows? The glue that held them together dissolved in rain. Admittedly, you can't MAKE it rain, but choosing fights on days when storms appeared to be closing in would probably save many lives.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:17 No.15744440
    aren't they on the defensive? there aren't any permanent mongol settlements for them to use siege engines on for thousands of miles, and whatever they may whip up on short notice will probably too innacurate for pitched battles
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:22 No.15744464
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    Metal-plated tanks, with gunmen/crossbowmen inside? Pic related; Leonardo's idea, just build on it.

    Actually, OP, most of da Vinci's inventions would probably work, given modern knowledge, and given that they are somewhat closer to the period in terms of how they are built, you're less likely to be accused of witchcraft.

    Also, make DETAILED DRAWINGS! It's a lot harder to be accused of magic and witchcraft when you can show how something works step-by-step.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:22 No.15744468
    archive, nao
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:23 No.15744475
    It is possible to promote rain if there are clouds and you have a plane or rocket loaded with the right chemicals. However, it is probably unlikely to invent such things in the given timeframe, assuming the necessary chemicals and materials are even available.

    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:25 No.15744487
    the fuck

    they're planning to use primitive gunpowder

    they're the one who'd be rightly fucked by rain
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:25 No.15744490
    OP, unless I'm mistaken, the Mongols never actually reached their empire all the way to you, so you can pretty much focus on helping with the offensive rather than anything else.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:27 No.15744511
    Yeah, that's what I figured. Hmmm... Massive hoses, maybe? Spray the fuck out of the approaching horde with high-powered firehoses? LOL.

    If nothing else, imagine the looks on their faces!

    Plus, can you think of something more demoralizing than having to slog around in wet armor for an entire battle? Not to mention their saddles would be soaked, and that can REALLY fuck up a horse if you leave it like that.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:28 No.15744519

    Field artillery. Barrels of flaming oil do wonders for breaking up enemy formations of all kinds.

    Also they have plenty of time ot have these built; and if their use of blueprints and thier waterwheel-powered industry catch on, the construction time on those things will decrease immensely. Standardised parts, construction/operating instructions, etc.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:29 No.15744524
    Hey, you know. You guys could try and just take the best elements of everything(English Longbow, French Cavalry, ect) and show how to reproduce that to everybody involved. It shouldn't prove too difficult. Plus, it'd be cheap, compared to other stuff. The only other thing to take note of: How will your actions affect the future and are there more people like you? Maybe on the Mongol's side, or hidden away in Britain?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:29 No.15744527
    No, they're skipping blackpowder if the GM allows it and going for gun cotton instead.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:30 No.15744531

    A trivial problem that can be solved with the intelligent application of Mechanincal engineering and a bit of brainpower.

    The Japs managed to make thier matchlocks rain-proof, these guys could certainly do it.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:30 No.15744532
    Fun fact, OP: That's the EXACT plot of a novel.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:30 No.15744533
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    all I can see is an inquisitor going "WHAT KABBALAH SORCERY IS THIS" when faced with technical drawings
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:31 No.15744535
    I am >>15744432

    True, but what's worse - having some trouble keeping powder dry (meaning you would just have to switch to longbows or crossbows), or having your WEAPON FALL APART?

    Though, admittedly, this was more of a suggestion if, for whatever reason, they weren't able to produce guns quickly enough.

    Wait... Couldn't they make cartridge-based firearms? Like, really simple stuff?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:32 No.15744547
    >English Longbow

    Was frankly overhyped, and required a massive cultural focus to make it viable. They're better off investing in their primitive pike-and-shotte-and-pavise militia.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:33 No.15744558
    The Mongols are both on the offensive and the more mobile army. If anyone will have the choice on the conditions of engagement, it will be them.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:33 No.15744562

    They really only did that wehn faced with someone who was (considered) a direct threat to the church. If these guys are working *with* the church and getting them on-side to begin with, I see a lot less problems in that regard.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:33 No.15744565
    >Welsh Longbow
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:34 No.15744571
    Longbows are awesome.

    You just need to spend years of time and a small fortune to train a longbow archer. That's why primitive muskets are superior: You give your peasant a 20 minute training and he can kill stuff with it.
    >> Scotguy !XuwMz6o10k 07/29/11(Fri)10:34 No.15744573
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    yeah, but even light siege engines are nasty stuff

    they may not need trebuchets but onagers, catapulta and scorpios on horse drawn carts flinging massive javalins and flasks of burning oil at targets will do some damage

    remeber pitch covered arrows as well, horses don't like fire and pitch is easy to make

    when you need to, engage the mongols on your terms, also digging varieties of pitfall traps around fields, strong enough for men to walk across but not for horses will do serious dammage to a charging horde

    acuratly mapping the surrounding areas would be good as well, and if you can get reliable ferry services on major rivers, you can replace stone bridge with wooden ones without disruption, more easily destroyable when you need to
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:36 No.15744583
    How about teaching SI units and how they are calculated?
    Would greatly help standardization. You could even use it for international relationships by having "scientific measurements" specifically for engineering.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:36 No.15744584
    Well, if they're retarded, sure. That's why you go for the ones that already like you (they seem to have an abbey of monks on their side).

    Plus, if it is still an issue, just show them directly. You know...

    >Showing them Leonardo's Tank:
    >"As you can see, my lords, the wheels underneath act like those of your average wood cart; pulled by an ass or mule, the wheels can turn the device in any direction."

    >Proceed to demonstrate what you just said, using a tank without a top. Lead them over to one with a top.

    >"Now, you can see our fine men-at-arms are safely sequestered within the device, while the portholes in the sides allow them to fire in all directions..."
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:38 No.15744600
    If the printing press thing works and the church accepts it, the inquisitors will be sucking their cocks in no time. Not only will it greatly ease the process of creating books but it'll leave the church with the only means to creating quick mass-propaganda much faster than anyone else. I believe OP already hinted at this use for it.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:39 No.15744604

    I am >>15744535
    True enough. Still, it IS something to consider, if they get the chance to utilize it. It was meant more as a useful tidbit than a general battle-strategy. If nothing else, they could count on rainy days as something of a reprieve, as it seems unlikely the Horde would willingly venture into battle in conditions that destroy their weaponry.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:39 No.15744607

    You would need to do some crazy delicate dimploacy with all the big guilds. Those guys were crazy obsessive and protective about their mehtods and standards; to have nay sort of implementatioon you're going to have to get dozens of guilds in each country to sign up to the plan.

    Not impossible, but a fucking hard sell.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:45 No.15744664
    We're a century early for any dedicated "inquisitors" to exist. There's an inquisition, but it's handled by the usual hierarchy - meaning the Bishop that heads the Kraków monastery probably IS the inquisitor who's going to try us if it comes to that. The inquiry he made was some sort of theological consultation with Italian cardinals or something. We met the guy only briefly, but he seemed more proud that it was his diocese that got exclusive emissaries from Prester John than worried about heresy.

    The count was against us introducing new measures of length, so we took the local inch (taken as the length of our liege's thumb :)), assumed that as an universal constant of sorts, assumed one of us is EXACTLY 182 cm tall (giving his height/182 as our future centimeter) and laboriously converted every constant we know to the "Silesian inch". From that we can standarize weight based on a volume of water and so on.
    >> Scotguy !XuwMz6o10k 07/29/11(Fri)10:48 No.15744686
    or crossobows, if they're going on the defensive then reload time doesn't matter as much

    which reminds me, OP start looking at upgrading the castles as well, trenches and pits to stop seige engines, palisade, moats spiderholes and tunnels, dragons teeth, make it like vietnam with the amount of traps you're using
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:51 No.15744730
    >make it like A GAME OF DWARF FORTRESS with the amount of traps you're using.

    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)10:54 No.15744750
    >mongols are carp
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)11:01 No.15744825
    Seeing as how I'll be leaving for the next session in half an hour, and I know our TA frequents /tg/:

    >If you're reading this thread, please stop and prepare for our arrival
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)11:07 No.15744867
    I thought the same. ;_;
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)11:08 No.15744879
    >implying todays spoiled brats are able work without some high-level programming language
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)11:13 No.15744904
    >implying todays spoiled brats are able work without some LOW-level programming language

    Fix'd that for you.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)11:17 No.15744929
    Medical school, well. Depending on which branch are you after those obligationary four years, you might find someone if you are lucky enough.

    Pathology deparment are full of jolly, utterly jaded people looking for an actual Call of Cthulhu happen.

    That and handling "you don't want to know" sample bits.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)11:35 No.15745072
    Cementation process, for now, planning to move onto Bessemer for better scaling. But in the end I'm not the person to ask in our group :)

    Okay, I'm off for the fifth session.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)11:36 No.15745091
    IT Student. Well, Project Management and requirements solicitation are pretty useful skills if we ever want to do anything large scale, but I suspect I'd be screwed.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)11:37 No.15745097
    Earlier post in the thread about rubber made me think about crude plastic.

    Milk. Separate into curds and whey with vinegar. Boil. Mold. Apply file to sand down the crap until you've got roughly the shape you want.

    Might not be exactly like that, but I vaguely recall doing something similar to this and ending up with a crappy piece of plastic that could serve as a stand-in for the modern day petroleum based stuff.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)11:47 No.15745174
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:01 No.15745293
    Invent bicycles

    Just cheap wooden ones really

    While your peasants may not out-ride a horse (unless it's a pretty nice mountain bike, in the woods, and they've been riding all their life), with your hot-air balloon detection grid (basically a series of hot air balloons tethered to the ground to keep a lookout, much like a watchtower but cheaper and the guards can cut the rope to go "lolnope" to the mongols. Set them up with 4 differently coloured flares and you can even guesstimate the location of the mongols based off NESW compass by what coloured flares you see), the peasantry should have plenty of time to get really far, really fast.

    Hell, if you can set up a trolley/ski-lift system, the world's your oyster
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:03 No.15745318
    >Invent bicycles
    How about roads, for starters?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:06 No.15745337
    Wouldn't roads need more resources?

    Though building bicycles with old-school methods might lead to them being less useful offroad.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:07 No.15745352
    to make usable bike you'd need rubber
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:13 No.15745399
    Revolutionize food production

    set up aquaponics

    Hell, build a glass pyramid on top of your castle and, with judicious use of mirrors or some-such, set up a greenhouse/aquaponics pyramid. (I do believe this is a thing and not simply the mad ravings of an Anon on 4chan... well minus the growing good on castles part)
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:15 No.15745408
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    >> Boomer !!bcdVCSUmpgT 07/29/11(Fri)12:15 No.15745412
    Hold up, hold up, back up here... did you say you want to give a printing press to the Catholics of 1201 AD War Was Beginning and think they will like it, but you are afraid of arming up peasants because you think the knights won't.

    Dude... you are great engineers but suck at history. Do the opposite. Arm up the peasants, DO NOT talk about increasing literacy with the Church, ESPECIALLY do not talk about giving any non-church servants like priests the ability to read the damned Bible. Seriously.

    Other than that, good job.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:18 No.15745432

    Yes, the church wants to keep as many people illiterate as possible. They won't have nearly as much power if people could read the Bible for themselves.
    >> Boomer !!bcdVCSUmpgT 07/29/11(Fri)12:20 No.15745453
    >leaving in half an hour
    >it's more than an hour later

    DAMNIT! He is going to get himself killed suggesting peasants learn to read the bible! No!

    Start a newspaper business! NEWSPAPERS!
    >> PORTLANDIAN (HAS ROAD >9000 ESOTERIC BICYCLES) 07/29/11(Fri)12:22 No.15745456

    I have actually ridden on multiple wooden bicycles. They are slow heavy and uncomfortable. I would rather be kicked in the balls.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:25 No.15745487
    Ask your TA what your win conditions are

    Save the castle? Turtle and build a few Gatling-guns. Argue for fear factor

    The region?
    break it down into sections to see what we're working with
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:45 No.15745689
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    >We were thinking of an optical telegraph though. A few towers strewn about the area, semaphores and maybe some simple telescopes to increase range.

    Pitch the idea to local merchants and see how they like knowing the latest activities on the Nysa, Odra or Vistula days before their competitors in other cities know, then ask for subscriptions to raise money to build it.

    If you had the resources, maybe you could build something close to the clacks system from Discworld.

    Also, pretty sure joint-stock companies don't exist yet. Knights and merchants both might see the appeal in dividends if given stock themselves. It'd greatly boost your money-making abilities if you could get away with it.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:48 No.15745712
    Op, you sound pretty dumb.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:51 No.15745739
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    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:54 No.15745775
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    >The Mongols are coming in ten years
    >Not preparing the way for your future Mongol overlords

    Build what will be most beneficial to the Mongols when they arrive. You know historically the knights will be slaughtered when they fight the Mongols in open ground, but there'll be enough resistance to make the area messed up afterward. Help steer the knights to lose even more quickly, and help reduce later resistance.

    Industrialize the MONGOLS.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:57 No.15745803
    >Make all ground treacherous with sinkholes and abrupt, knee-high mounts
    >Fuck yo' horses mongols
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)12:57 No.15745809
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    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)13:10 No.15745909
    are these actual figures? do want
    >> Scotguy !XuwMz6o10k 07/29/11(Fri)13:17 No.15745980
    It's real

    >> Scotguy !XuwMz6o10k 07/29/11(Fri)13:21 No.15746017
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)13:27 No.15746069
    I can suggest something that is INSTA HERESY, but you mentioned the stored energy via water. If you were to line the back of a water wheel with magnets, and have an iron axle wrapped in copper wire boom, instant electricity through induction.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)13:51 No.15746240
    baghdad battery
    >> Lord Castellan Ursarkar E Creed 07/29/11(Fri)14:01 No.15746326
    Aye, and with the slightest electric field we can do electrolysis, Aluminum and precious metals anyone?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)14:03 No.15746346
    One more step towards viable bikes!
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)14:03 No.15746347
    i think you missed the INSTA HERESY part....
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)14:06 No.15746379
    "It's just alchemy!"
    >> Lord Castellan Ursarkar E Creed 07/29/11(Fri)14:10 No.15746427
    Actually, I was the one who wrote it, I forgot to remove the namefag from the SS13 thread.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)14:36 No.15746661
    If you want to make a method of communicating over long distances, I recommend that you first make a tuning fork and educate a lord or two on the nature of sound, all the while talking about how this is a vital part of the kingdom of Prester John.

    That should allow you to get past the WITCHCRAFT! assumptions
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)14:44 No.15746748
    Prester John, how to go "A WIZARD DID IT" without the wizard.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)14:46 No.15746765
    You should also mention how it is one of gods great gifts, continuous praising of god for basic physics is pretty much required
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)14:56 No.15746919
    Without the wizard? John's fluff says he's the descendant of one of the Three Magi.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)15:08 No.15747096

    do we get more storytime once OP gets back?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)15:12 No.15747169
    Hopefully. Until then, let's at least bump this thread
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)15:35 No.15747399
    >In 1221 Jacques de Vitry, Bishop of Acre, returned from the disastrous Fifth Crusade with good news: King David of India, the son or grandson of Prester John, had mobilized his armies against the Saracens. He had already conquered Persia, then under the Khwarezmian Empire's control, and was moving on towards Baghdad as well. This descendant of the great king who had defeated the Seljuks in 1141 planned to reconquer and rebuild Jerusalem.
    >The bishop of Acre was correct in thinking that a great King had conquered Persia; however "King David", as it turned out, was no benevolent Nestorian monarch nor even a Christian, but the Tengrist warlord Genghis Khan.

    my pants are shat
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)15:38 No.15747441
    You should also somehow save the Library in Baghdad in 1258
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)15:43 No.15747502
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    Technology is not the only thing these guys can bring into the past.
    How about some music? Of course, making the bards play AC/DC will only make the crowd put our engineers on the pyre faster.

    So how about this: suggest music that, if played 'unplugged', could pass for unheretical / relatively tame but still carries the modern spark!

    I'll start with a few.

    (I never played Zelda, but this sounds nice)

    (The beginning part, the part with the lyrics would stand out a bit)

    (I bet the lute-playing bards would have a field day with the developers of this game)
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)15:53 No.15747607
    Storytime when you get back, OP
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)15:57 No.15747638
    Fortify the Dneiper and keep the Mongols out.
    Don't think you can kickstart the Industrial Revolution without better agriculture first. You need a workforce, and for that, you need people doing stuff other than subsistence farming.

    Historically the Mongols would have a pretty tough time pushing further than they did in history, given the lack of grazing land for their horses westward. Raids maybe, but a full scale invasion is unlikely to succeed.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)16:06 No.15747707
    Actually, I think songs and stories would be more transferable and worthwhile than music in general.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)16:14 No.15747775
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)16:30 No.15747992
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    >This week on How To Do It we're going to show you how to play the flute, how to split an atom, how to construct a box-girder bridge, and how to irrigate the Sahara desert to make vast new areas of land cultivatable. But first here's Jackie to tell you how to rid the world of all known diseases.

    >Well, first of all become a doctor and discover a marvelous cure for something. And then when the medical profession really starts to take notice of you, you can jolly well tell them what to do and make sure they get everything right so there'll never be any diseases ever again!

    >Thanks, Jackie! Great idea.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)16:39 No.15748110
    Just introducing Algebra and modern logic to the medieval intellectual community such as it exists would be useful. dual column book keeping for well, anyone, and book keeping to begin with would probably mean a lot too.

    Otherwise, anything you can actually get going.

    A useful Gatling gun is a complicated beast with many difficult to machine parts, which would take a while for even a skilled group of engineers who had a very good idea of what tolerances to engineer the barrels and actions to, and generally, how to make a gun.

    You also have the issue of powder, and etc.. Assuming you could get steel or iron worth a damn for making any kind of a gun, you'd have to make a bunch of cartridges, which is a hell of a nuisance. imagine all the fricking cases. And you would need a primer. And your blackpowder can be tricky to really get a good formula, and then actually tailor to the use you want in terms of grain size. You have to be careful handling it too. And if you don't have access to decent components, it's going to be shitty powder.

    I don't really think you would have a lot of success using 13th century tools to machine a useful 19th century machine gun equivalent, even if you could figure out how to do it in the first place.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)16:56 No.15748339
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    >technological solutions, technological solutions everywhere

    Just as imporant as all the machinery and bits of tech are ideas and practices. You can't make a gunpowder army out of nothing without the acceptance of conscription, drilling and, ideally, a general staff. Sure, you can teach anybody how to simply load, shoot and clean a gun in a fairly short period of time, but teaching an army the importance of volley fire, unit cohesion and drill is another matter entirely. Shoot, that stuff's important even without guns-- leave the army's equipment untouched but introduce drilling excercises, NCOs, quartermaster, ordnance and transportation corps, professional army doctors and military schools and the power of the army will increase dramatically, even if they still are armed with pikes and crossbows.

    And that's just military matters! Financial regulation and market reforms could easily turn Silesia into a greater economic powerhouse, generating greater tax revenue for the crown in turn permitting for the maintenance of a moderate standing army and expanded bureaucracy.

    Public schooling is also an absolute necessity. If you want to produce a sufficient quanitity of anything, maintain a small army of clerks and really popularize modern techniques in industry and warfare, you've absolutely got to increase literacy rates.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:07 No.15748450
    To secure loyalty of more powerful knighthood, make them the primarch-equivalent to the legion-equivalents you make.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:10 No.15748488
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    >The players are Adeptus Mechanicus
    >The GM is the Void Dragon

    gonna kill that Khornite Khan
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:14 No.15748520
    The problem with increased education is that it requires more resources to start with. If you take kids out of the fields to go get an education, that lowers the yield of harvests. And then you have educated people who are starving.

    What you need first is increased yields. Increased yields free up human resources that you can use for other projects. However you guys would increase crop yields, I have no idea. But you definitely need to take care of that first, or at least very early.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:16 No.15748540
    Be boss. Introduce the Cartesian coordinate system, calculus and all the other cool stuff that is force-fed to engineers.
    Also you won't be able to make proper guns unless the GM will handwave you. Maybe basic handcannons, muskets and shit like that, but actual rifled and cartridged guns are VERY bitchy and require (relatively) highly advanced materials and machining.
    Also your chemical engineer is going to cry like a bitch. I know I would, because he will have fucking huge problems making anything as he doesn't have proper access to any kind of mineral acid, problems with lye access and absolutely no oxidizers, organic solvents (short of moonshine) or other useful shit like that. Also no glassware, zero measuring equipment, no analytical methods available (not even qualitative ones)... jesus my eyes are already watering. You're gonna need to supply him some sulfur or get him near sulfur-rich ore at least (copper will work). I also wouldn't like to be him when making concentrated nitric acid,. meaning you can forget explosives and probably large-scale gun cotton in 10 years.
    And to some guy that mentioned aluminum: they can flat-out forget that unless they first make proper electric furnaces and then get cryolite. Which is not going to happen.
    Generally best would be introducing stuff like stirrups (or did they already have that in 12xx), advanced steel processing techniques, simple gearboxes, advanced water or steam-powered sawmills, and quite possibly most important ADVANCED AGRICULTURE. Fuck nitric acid, use dat guano for the farms. More food for everyone will make everyone happy and free you time for other projects.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:17 No.15748545
    Slide rifles if you have the technical expertise and manufacturing capability, if not skip straight to flintlocks instead of matchlocks/wheel-locks. Assuming you can make fulminate of mercury (first contact explosive I could think of that's doable), you could do percussion cap.

    What he said. Take a leaf from von Steuben, imho, and go from there. Training your cadre is going to be of utmost importance, especially if you can make them tough-as-nails motherfuckers.

    Poland becomes the new Prussia?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:17 No.15748549
    Yeah, like others have said, introduce more modern military ideas. Ranks and order are a big one.

    You've got rank and file pikemen, archers, cavalry. Give them lieutenants to guide them. Have them report to a captain. The captains report to the general. Etc.

    But seriously, for going back in time with modern knowledge, you need to keep that shit secure. If you have engineered new semi modern weapons or any other technology really, you need to make sure it doesn't find its way out of your sphere of influence. Because then in 10 years you've got every major country using rudimentary firearms and your technological advantage is gone.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:20 No.15748577
    It's quite simple: cheap and effective ploughs. They were quite expensive, but fantastically useful. Constructing them from iron would make them even more effective.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:21 No.15748587
    I thought Doombreed was Gengis Khan? If so he's dead already. Ogedei is Supreme Khan.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:23 No.15748604
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    Increase yields? That's easy!

    -Offer some small incentives to farmers who are willing to experiment with 4-field crop rotation, rather than sticking to 2- or 3-field rotation. That'll increase yield without introducing any sort of tech whatsoever.

    -Introduce the McCormick mechanical reaper.

    -Fertilizers! At this point in time I think they're still just using poo. Introduce the use of bone meal
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:26 No.15748636
    Say, you sure have read through the thread, have you?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:26 No.15748639
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    >he didn't read the thred.

    They're Polish guys from Silesia, and they went back in time to Silesia in 1231.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:27 No.15748651
    >I haven't read a word of the thread
    >still gonna be smug about it
    >the first sentence I say is completely wrong and it goes downhill from there
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:28 No.15748657
    In the first place, if they were in the French-dominated west, they wouldn't have to worry about Mongols.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:28 No.15748658
    >implying Polish get shit done
    >> Fightan Man 07/29/11(Fri)17:31 No.15748684
    I'm to smug to educate myself, but I'm not as blatantly ignorant as I appear. If the Mongols are invading it means you're running around the "Holy Land" and eastern Russia and Georgia. Which isn't really beneficial to all of us non slavs and arabs.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:32 No.15748699
    You fool, now people are going to swarm out of nowhere saying "BUT POLAND SAEV VEENNA", "POLISH HUSSARS ARE BEST HUSSARS" and all that claptrap.

    That's an invitation to Polish nationalists to come and cream in their pants, and Polish nationalists are second only to Greek nationalists in absolute shittiness.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:33 No.15748710
    >implying Poland wasn't one of the strongest kingdoms in Europe for most of the Middle Ages
    >implying you're not a total retard
    >> Humming the Bassline 07/29/11(Fri)17:34 No.15748724
    >I'm to smug to educate myself
    Apparently. Missing an o there, junior.
    You are also missing the fact that this isn't a group of neckbeards. This a group of engineers and scientists. They study their shit, and know exactly why it works in their head, not off Wikipedia.

    Hell if you read the thread (like any respectable fa/tg/uy, guess what that makes you?) you'll learn they even discuss the chemical formulas of what they're using to manipulate metals with. Part of the thread is nothing but formulas.

    tl;dr We're SCIENCEing in here, get out if you cannot keep up with the discussion
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:34 No.15748725
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    It's been clearly stated that they're in Silesia, which is in western Poland and about as far west as any Mongol army went.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:36 No.15748742
    Oooh, someone knows his guns. I like the Slide Rifle idea. You'd have to resign yourself to cottage industry level production unless you spent a lot of time making a really crude factory. I wouldn't actually trust a sophisticated gun made in that kind of process though. Maybe a fucking crossbow made like that, because Crossbows and things like Munition Plate were made in useful amounts like that, but not something as complicated as a 19th century level rifle.

    Actually it was the main courtly and in some ways, diplomatic language. People spoke whatever awful, incomprehensible medieval dialect of wherever it was you were in. Even if anyone knew french you would be lucky to have an easy time in places that are thought of as french now, and spoke something like french at the time.

    You might get by with churchmen if you knew some Latin, although a modern engineering students odds of knowing much scripture or Catholic canon law and contemporary thinking would make them seem strange, and possibly foreign, ignorant, or heretical.

    We should perhaps presume that the PC's are "Sue" versions of the characters, or that our ideal conceptions of the best you could reasonably assume from random engineering students have at least one representative metal specialist with practical skills that would not immediately get him laughed out of a blacksmiths shop. Dollars to donuts our hypothetical aspiring smith gets sneered at for being wimpy, and having arms like pipestems no matter how good he is with metal and the science thereof.
    >> Fightan Man 07/29/11(Fri)17:39 No.15748775

    Check the part where I bring forth practical BASIC survival not your part of the story which involves "Summon gold", "take over world" "use my knowledge too create medieval nukes"
    >> Scotguy !XuwMz6o10k 07/29/11(Fri)17:40 No.15748783
    beacuse the mongols met a team of highly trained engineers who used their own tactics against them and had all sorts of fancy witch-tech

    >> Fightan Man 07/29/11(Fri)17:41 No.15748795
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:41 No.15748796
    They have a metallurgist and those usually know their shit reasonably well. They will have all the theory down, at least, and they tend to get some practical experience too - not at a blacksmith, but concepts stay the same. What he can make by hand will most likely look and be total shit, but metal quality will be pants-shittingly awesome to the blacksmith.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:42 No.15748808
    Summertime, why so illiterate.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:45 No.15748828

    >stirrups (or did they already have that in 12xx)

    Yeah, you're about 200~600 years too late for stirrups, depending on the region.

    Best bet against Mongols is encastellation, as the hordes hit, aheh, a stone wall when it came to taking fortified positions. Unfortunately, ten years isn't really enough time to pursue the strategy effectively, and it's an extraordinarily politically aggressive manoeuvre- it's certain to draw the wrath of your overlord.

    Silesia seems like an odd setting for a "hold back the Mongols" game, to be honest (I know, I know, it's where OP is); there's no real indication the Mongols ever intend to conquer that far west. Raid, yes, but not conquer. Russia seems like a much better location for this sort of thing.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:50 No.15748879
    10 years is a very short time indeed. But if you manage to somehow introduce anti-cavalry troops and/or convince people it's not very smart to engage the Mongols in the open fields... The main goal of OP should be to get a very powerful boss, either an archbishop or a strong duke, maybe even the king as fast as possible. Getting financed to improve mines and agriculture would be a huge boost on its own. Every other technological advance, especially metallurgy, would be just an additional boon.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:51 No.15748888
    Mongols were pretty much IRL Orks. They never stopped after being beaten, it just made them more giddy for another try.

    The invasion OP is fighting back pretty much ended in "Okay, we obliterated their armies effortlessly and razed their cities, what now? Oh, the Khan is dead? Let's go back to choose the new one, because we're obligated by law to do it". And they didn't come back for more because they didn't think it was worth the hassle.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)17:54 No.15748916
    Y'know, I honestly don't think it'd be impossibly difficult to usurp the Pope with a little SCIENCE. Make a megaphone, some glow in the dark paint, or some other way of communication without being physically present, infiltrate the Vatican, and send a message to the Pope that your group are sent straight from God and need control over the entire Church. Now.

    Then systematically replace religion with SCIENCE, and bam. By the year 2000 we're all living on Mars.

    Oh, and when you inevitably invent automobiles, /please/ make them electric. It's all Ford's fault we're still using goddamn combustion in our vehicles.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:00 No.15748972
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    >usurp the Pope
    >invent cars

    They don't even have a steam engine yet. It's going to take years just to get a working model, much less one that will work a mill, much less one that could power a locomotive, much less one powerful and compact enough to power an automobile.

    Fuck, they don't even have rubber.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:00 No.15748976
    not OP, but in a steampunk 17th century game I created a series of towers utilising terry pratchetts clacks idea, simple grid of black/white slides or lit/unlit lamps to pass messages n rudimentary binary over long distances. eache tower needs two operators and two fixed telescopes. and the mechanics behind the grid is simple. saved us from a french invasion and got me a knighthood.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:01 No.15748990
    >We should perhaps presume that the PC's are "Sue" versions of the characters, or that our ideal conceptions of the best you could reasonably assume from random engineering students have at least one representative metal specialist with practical skills that would not immediately get him laughed out of a blacksmiths shop. Dollars to donuts our hypothetical aspiring smith gets sneered at for being wimpy, and having arms like pipestems no matter how good he is with metal and the science thereof.

    They way I read OP's storytime, they're not actually building the stuff themselves, by hand. Their lord put his blacksmiths and such at their disposal and they're explaining blueprints and plans to those, explaining principles behind the mechanism without having to use bizarro 13th century tools.

    I doubt medieval craftsmen were STUPID. They were reasonably competent, but you can only have so many revolutionary ideas in a lifetime. What if you had a magical genie from the future explain to you how stuff from a couple of years in the future works, a few decades at a time? You could make fast progress.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:03 No.15749004
    I don't think you understand how this works. The Pope is considered infallible by this point. Clearly, you are a false angel or message from the devil.

    There are a lot of things Catholics took for granted at the time. I don't think you could manage to compose a message that would seem credibly divine to them, frankly. The Church was God's word and the Pope his voice on earth.

    And if you did by some miracle, it would probably cause a pope anti pope situation, or the like. It is very likely that in that situation, your followers would get slaughtered, because most Catholics would remain loyal, and traditional.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:03 No.15749006
    I've seen a few 16th century firearms that were quite complex. Just because it's cottage-industry level does not mean it's not quality. Honestly, if they can get firearms at all, I'd be happy. Just skip the retarded wheel-lock.

    Though, thinking on it, it would be difficult without metallic cartridges. Paper cartridges could work, though I'm not sure that would be entirely doable. Depending on IF they can get a stable gun powder, and IF they can get a stable (relative) primer, and IF they can get oxidizers, then it MIGHT work. Might. This all hinges on GM fiat.

    Actually, paper cartridges in general would be awesome. Pre-measured powder charges with wadding and ball? Check. Even in a regular musket, that would hugely increase RoF.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:05 No.15749019
    >It's all Ford's fault we're still using goddamn combustion in our vehicles.
    You have no fucking idea how many difficulties there are with electric cars, do you? Also, nobody will invent cars from scratch. In one lifetime you will not even get proper metallurgy set up.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:06 No.15749039
    I like the way you think. Semaphore or Morse Code?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:07 No.15749047
    >Y'know, I honestly don't think it'd be impossibly difficult to usurp the Pope with a little SCIENCE. Make a megaphone, some glow in the dark paint, or some other way of communication without being physically present, infi-
    >Wait, wha-
    >*squished between a mongol horde and a crusade*
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:09 No.15749063
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    >I honestly don't think it'd be impossibly difficult to usurp the Pope
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:10 No.15749068
    >I don't think you understand how this works. The Pope is considered infallible by this point.

    This is actually a misconception. The dogma about papal infallibility dates from... 1870!
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:10 No.15749080
    Semaphore. Motherfucking semaphore. Build wooden watchtowers every few miles, establish a flag language, and use that sweet loom to manufacture the flags. You'll have easy, effective, practically instant communication.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:13 No.15749105
    >use that sweet loom to manufacture the flags
    >implying you can't just use painted planks
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:15 No.15749117
    My brain is full of fuck right now.

    If you can get saltpeter in suffficient quantities, are you going to refine it further into potassium nitrate? Because that would help hugely.

    If you can't, start saving up piss and synthesize it.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:16 No.15749122
    The problem with all "semaphores" and other large-scale bullshit everyone is proposing is that the OP's party doesn't have jack shit in the way of resources. Think of a feudalist as a die-hard capitalist. If he's not going to get GUARANTEED SHORT-TERM PROFIT (as in, for example, textile industry, better mining or better steel) he's not gonna give a fuck, ESPECIALLY if it's a minor noble. For something spanning more than one county they're gonna need to convince a powerful duke, an archbishop or a king that they're god's gift to humanity. If possible all of them at the same time.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:16 No.15749126
    but the tanner is using it all already
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:20 No.15749146
    Problem solved, then. Expand the industry.

    And as >>15749122 pointed out, they are going to need to find protection and power from some authority figure. Hrm.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:23 No.15749165
    Hey Count Herpaderpski, I know you like wine from Champagne. I also know that it's damn hard for you to get it from merchants in Krakow before everyone else gets it. Help fund my new messenger system and you'll be able to use it freely to buy it from there before anyone else can.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:23 No.15749167
    Oh no doubt. There are just limits on what you can do with tools like that and a medieval economy. Even if you have a cheat sheet.

    I am still of the opinion that modern thinking would be about as valuable as jump starting Renaissance technology. Things like the scientific method, empiricism, basic higher math and accounting. Essentially, all the intellectual stuff. You could throw in basic physics, but keep it small, and avoid challenging cosmology or the Church too much.

    If anyone by some chance had a map of the world or remembered it fairly well, that by itself would be revolutionary once people realized it was unprecedentedly accurate. You wouldn't even have to clarify that it represented a globe. That would be bad actually, because of it not being the Church position.

    Have to be careful though. Merchants would fucking KILL for a good map. You could equip locals with good maps if you had them, and if nothing else, all the things you could think of or remember about modern accounting and economics. If they weren't totally retarded, which would be likely, they would have a huge advantage business wise.

    Your basic scientific management and efficiency innovations would be good too. Having any notion of modern civil and industrial structural engineering and design would be gold. City streets, roads, mills, various other light industry that uses water power, much more structurally sound buildings in general.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:27 No.15749197
    Sure. Where do you think that count will pull the money from, his ass? Or convince another half-dozen counts to put his towers on? A duke can just say it so, because hey, he's their superior and nobody will give much lip service to the church, but currently they cannot make anything large scale.
    Don't forget buildings in general tended to be hideously expensive in medieval times.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:27 No.15749198
    And you could work miracles in local cottage industries by giving them more advanced means of production and more efficient building and mechanical designs in general.

    It wouldn't be the industrial revolution over night, but you could do big things with basic engineering and structural skills.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:29 No.15749209
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    >You wouldn't even have to clarify that it represented a globe. That would be bad actually, because of it not being the Church position.

    Everybody with half a brain and the ability to scribble two letters had pretty much accepted the idea of earth as a globe by them. The Ancient Greeks figured it out pretty easily, and scholars had a hard-on for all things Greek.

    I mean, Galileo was only put on trial because he was a total asshole who called the Pope's ideas stupid to his face and wrote pamphlets calling the Pope a simpleton.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:29 No.15749211
    >You have no fucking idea how many difficulties there are with electric cars, do you?

    I'm guessing just as many as the beginning combustion cars had.

    Look, I'm just going off an aside my History teacher told me: The original prototype automobile was electric-powered, and it worked. We would all be driving electric cars today, but Ford looked at it and figured that combustion would be more profitable.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:29 No.15749213
    dear good I need to sleep
    >to put his towers on
    to allow him to put his towers on their land
    >superior and nobody will give much lip service to the church
    superior, and nobody will give much lip service to the church if they manage to get some sort of high-ranking church as their patron
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:30 No.15749218
    And an electrical motor should be easier to make than a combustion engine due to more direct energy transfer with less moving parts.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:30 No.15749220
    Please, they are from Poland. It should be Sir Herpaderpislaw.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:33 No.15749235
    Count Herpaderpski, I understand you don't have the largest coffers. All I'm asking is for some help building maybe four or five wooden towers within your lands. They don't need to be built out of stone, they don't need to be fortified. That's not asking that much, and you'll be able to get that wine much quicker if you help. If need be, talk to a Jewish lender again.

    >all you need is some rickety-ass structure like >>15745689
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:33 No.15749236
    One word. Batteries. Lead ones are shit and even high-grade Li-ion battery packs with so much advanced shit put into them that it hurts cannot match a full tank of diesel with a modern engine.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:34 No.15749246
    Guys, you are forgetting that it's a game. What if the GM has some surprises coming with the Mongols, like another group of scientists at the adversary's side?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:34 No.15749251
    That half-brain and scribbling was hard then. A luxury. Also, they had quite nice ways of getting away with flat world model. Copernicus model wasn't widely accepted at the beggining, because it... didn't work well for sailors, the flaws in theory made it less usefull then their current ways of navigation.
    Aaaand nobody with a half-brain would go on claiming that world was a globe. Because seriously, those at the bottom would fall down. And you're a witch.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:34 No.15749253
    OP here

    I'm a bit too tired (also slightly inebriated) to recount the whole session. Maybe tomorrow (if the thread's not arround I'll make a new one). I'll share the most wtf moment, which is unrelated to the technical stuff we did (we didn't do much of that so the wtf moment was the focus really). We learned the gist of our inquisitorial conundrum (though not a verdict):

    One of our players is a serious business Catholic, so (in secret to the rest of the group) during confession in our starting months in the monastery he gave up our true story.

    We were visiting the Duke with our liege, and were called in for a private audience that pretty much opened with "So, the Bishop tells me you guys are from the future".

    So much for the sacred seal of confession.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:36 No.15749267
    >Look, I'm just going off an aside my History teacher told me: The original prototype automobile was electric-powered, and it worked.

    What the fuck "prototype automobile" was this? I didn't know Karl Benz made electric cars.

    >due to more direct energy transfer with less moving parts.

    Few moving parts doesn't mean that it's easier to make. How many moving parts does a computer motherboard have?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:38 No.15749283
    I love your TA. Too many here think the Catholic church of the middle ages was a machine for burning witches. This is more how I'd imagine the reaction from someone powerful enough to become a fucking bishop. Enjoy helping the Catholics take over even more of the world.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:39 No.15749298
    >high-grade Li-ion battery packs with so much advanced shit put into them that it hurts cannot match a full tank of diesel with a modern engine.

    "Modern" being the operative word here. Do you seriously think that if electric cars had a good 100 years of development and focus under their belts they wouldn't at LEAST match modern diesel engines?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:39 No.15749302
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    >dat henry
    >dat beard
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:41 No.15749312
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    Fucking whore. Your GM is definitely stealing this whole campaign from the Cross Time Engineer.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:44 No.15749342
    Copernicus' theory involved heliocentric and geocentric theories, both of which already accepted that the earth and all the planets were spheres.

    No, seriously, go read up on flat-earth theory and how no one took it seriously even in the Dark Ages.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:44 No.15749345
    You have to admit it is hard to beat the energy denseness of gasoline/diesel.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:45 No.15749353
    ...and third.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:46 No.15749363
    It's also a damn sight easier to get coal or even naptha in 1231 than it is to produce lithium.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:48 No.15749375
    Nope. Because they would be pretty much scrapped at the start as unusable and too complicated and the simpler solution (the combustion engine) would be used. Lugging around hundreds of pounds of lead batteries with no knowledge of battery mapping, advanced printed circuits and general electric engineering would be a horrendous pain. Electricity is horrendously complex (especially when you don't have a fixed power source) and there's a reason why it hasn't seen widespread use until relatively late.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:48 No.15749377

    "Okay, guys? Guys. The first thing we need, is about 200 miles of copper wire."

    "No, really. What? Stop laughing!"
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:50 No.15749394

    Never mind that planetary mechanics have absolutely nothing to do with celestial navigation or seafaring in general. Whether the Earth is a ball going around the Sun or vice versa doesn't change the fact that it's a ball.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:51 No.15749408
    Flat Earth HYPOTHESIS, please.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:52 No.15749418
    >only one mention of Ring of Fire series, no resulting discussion at all
    /tg/ I am disappoint
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:53 No.15749426
    And the region they're in has good reserves of lignite. Not the best coal, but it works for heating. Not so much for ore refining. Better look for bituminous or anthracite, or just use a shitton of charcoal.

    The fact that they've got a water-powered trip hammer already (before Leonardo!) says to me that they can jump straight into some serious industrial metal working if they can fuel their industry.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:54 No.15749430
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    >Guys, you are forgetting that it's a game. What if the GM has some surprises coming with the Mongols, like another group of scientists at the adversary's side?
    OPs face when the GM is actually leading a second group on the Mongol side.

    >winning side gets extra credit
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:54 No.15749431

    Because those books are terrible. Especially when it comes to historical and technological matters.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:56 No.15749448
    Right. Bishops then were actually quite good businessman. A wealthy and influantial man could become a Bishop without too much effort (though it would probably require giving his possesions to the church). And these man could see the potential of time traveler.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)18:57 No.15749456
    Ah, my bad. Didn't mean to demean the word 'theory' by tossing it around like that.


    The 163X series has little to do with this scenario, given that the time disparity is greater and the people transported are fewer. Even Grantville's "gear-down" state is probably too advanced for what these guys can do.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:00 No.15749489

    For all practical purposes, the medieval Catholic Church was just another form of titled nobility, with all the worldly concerns and self-interest that involved. Getting yourself a bishophric had nothing to do with religious training or piety; it was medieval pork-barrel politics. If you sucked up to the right people, you got a Church title that granted you lands and revenue.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:12 No.15749576
    I laughed. I can just see it- Team Poland is expecting horsemen with bows. Team Mongolia comes out with field cannon and flamethrowers.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:19 No.15749633
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    Team Mongols is expecting knights ready for slaughter. They encounter heavy fortifications, dedicated anti-cavalry tactics and field cannons.
    >GM's face when
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:25 No.15749701
    Star forts? Might be a good idea, especially IF Team Poland can get both long- and short-range artillery.

    If they can get manganese bronze worked out (technically a brass, but whatever, it's retardedly tough stuff), and they can get their bellmaker contacts to cast cannons...
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:32 No.15749767

    IF, big IF, the PCs can start a mass-production of muskets (even basic ones, and no I don't mean handgonnes), any chance they could start training dragoons?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:35 No.15749802
    Well for dragoons you need horses, and they've already stated that they don't have many. As to whether they could get some, that would be up in the air.

    But the question is, would dragoons be a viable strategy to employ against the Mongols?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:38 No.15749840
    Yeah. Rather than thinking of things that they COULD make. We and they should be focusing on what they SHOULD make or SHOULD work on.

    If you are anticipating the Mongols to get so far west and to actually get to your area, you should really focus on traps. Everywhere. You've got to cause attrition before the battle even begins. Even if they aren't traps that cause death, but rather maim. Pit traps that aren't meant to kill, but are several feet deep with spikes meant to cripple horses or people. All of a sudden, they've got scores of wounded that they either have to still feed or leave to die or outright execute. Either way, that's going to hurt their morale.

    Psychological warfare, man. Wear them down before they're even near you.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:42 No.15749868
    Look, the Mongols were not actually terrible rulers. Several of the areas they conquered proceeded onward to have prosperous and peaceful periods afterward, and the Mongol empire was one of the greatest periods in medieval history for Europe-Asia trade because it became safe to travel long distances, since they were all owned by the same rulers. Instead of preparing for an incredibly costly war, you should plan on joining up with them and making their rule better.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:44 No.15749885
    Caltrops. Caltrops everywhere.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:44 No.15749897
    They also destroyed Islamic kingdoms, allowing Europeans to rise to dominance over the next several centuries.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:46 No.15749917
    the problem here is I expect the PCs won't be the ones calling the shots when a general battle strategy is formulated

    say, dukes form an anti-mongol alliance as in history and march out against Subutai's horde

    do the PCs defy their liege and stay behind their fortifications while he goes off to slaughter? or maybe they should prepare for a pitched battle from the start?

    went and checked at wikipedia, this is the actual battle that took place:
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:50 No.15749950
    I have no problems with this. Why should man submit to God, when he can submit to SCIENCE!?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:51 No.15749957
    >A smoke screen was used to hide the Mongol movements and confuse the Europeans.
    >Henry was struck down and beheaded while attempting to flee the battlefield with three bodyguards and the Mongols paraded his head before the town of Legnica on a spear.

    damn mongols, you scary
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:55 No.15749996
    >there's no real indication the Mongols ever intend to conquer that far west

    It's well documented that Ogedei wanted to conquer all the way to the "Great Sea" (Atlantic ocean). The problem was he died and his successors didn't care/were too fragmented.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)19:59 No.15750040
    watch europe descend into complete, Chinaesque technological stagnation after PCs eventually die, because they didn't actually develop any technology and were granted it on a silver platter
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)20:12 No.15750161
    Don't know if this is been discussed yet, but from am military standpoint its imperitive to convince your Duke patron to institute a full professional army, not just a few knights/menatarms with mass drawn peasant levies.

    To combat the mongols you will need line infantry trained in early firearms, and professional pikemen. Cannons are a must.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)20:35 No.15750324

    Best Post ITT.

    And that includes OP
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)20:40 No.15750361
    >implying China's stagnation wasn't caused by new dynasties taking power and destroying any remnant of former rulers, including most documents and shit.

    >implying that that would happen in the West around the PCs area when they will leave working examples, blueprints, documents, and people who worked with them on building these items.

    >implying the documents wouldn't spread and be studied and the instruments experimented on.

    >implying even if the advanced technical aspects of some devices aren't understood, such as the physics involved or what have you, that the action and reaction of the items wouldn't be, or at least couldn't be, understood and replicated.

    >implying it matters.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)20:54 No.15750448
    is this

    is this

    the new mercs and planes (and warcrimes)

    because I like it.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)20:54 No.15750451
    You know that pike infantry would be absolutely useless against Mongol cavalry? Our engineers are better suited for civil development.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:01 No.15750521
    I know medicine has already been brought up, but it's important to know little tricks when disease crops up in spite of your best efforts.

    Onions. Common onions can serve as a crude disinfectant for the air. If you've got a disease that jumps from patient to patient through the air, cut an onion in half and leave the halves in the room. The smell might be unpleasant, but it's more palatable than a festering corpse. Just be sure to mash it every few hours to get the juice in the air again and replace it every twelve or so hours.

    Garlic is another handy thing to have. I don't pretend to know the science behind it, but it's pretty fairly well-known for the ability to spread throughout the body. Rubbing it on your feet, for example, can cause one's breath to smell like it's been eaten. If you get around to making penicillin, put it in pills that also contain garlic and you're sure to get it where it needs to go.

    Most people scoff at herbal remedies these days, but some of them can work. Given the time period and the lack of reliable medicine, it might be your only choice. Besides, half of the work of these kinds of things is in the placebo effect. Get the patient to believe it and they'll do the rest.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:02 No.15750525
    It's a straight Monty Python quote, if from a relatively obscure sketch. It's what unfunny nerds do.

    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:05 No.15750558
    If you do manage to get into the service of a king. Try to convince him to create a standardized versions. Of measurement, language, coinage, and all that. Makes things a lot simpler in the kingdom.

    Also, bury a small fortune worth of things that would be considered artifacts in present day. Coins that will vanish over the day. Just in case you end up returning to the future, you can unbury it and get loads of dosh.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:22 No.15750784

    Those claims sound pretty dubious, especially the garlic one. Sounds more like superstition to be honest. Unless tests show that adding garlic is a distribution agent isn't just a placebo effect, I'd have a hard time believing it.

    In the first place how do you make sure that the chemicals in the medicine would bond to whatever gives garlic fragrance on a molecular level? And what if that smell is actually independent of the other nutritional components found in garlic?

    Teach them the scientific approach and they'll figure out way more than you can teach them long after you are gone.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:22 No.15750787
    Depends on how much attention OP's group draws, and if the clergy decides to share more than they have already.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:27 No.15750874
    I really hope your GM is going with the Dr. Who approach to time travel. Else he's gonna have a fun time with all the paradoxes you'd end up creating.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:28 No.15750895
    what's the "Dr. Who" approach?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:41 No.15751061


    thats the dr who approach. They change the logic of time travel every few episodes to fit whatever is happening.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:41 No.15751063

    Basically paradoxes don't happen unless you actually kill your dad before you're born. Going back a couple hundred years and doing stuff won't exactly erase you from existence unless you actually destroy the planet.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:41 No.15751065

    First and foremost, thank you for illustrating this.

    >Most people scoff at herbal remedies these days

    Second, yes, you're right. Most of any herbal remedy is superstition and such. There are a handful of those things that I've seen work, though I know that anecdotal evidence is about as useful as a paladin in a whorehouse.

    The bit about garlic and onions is mostly just a suggestion. If you're fighting disease with a Mongolian horde outside of a duke's walls, it's just another experiment to run. If it works, great. If it doesn't, back to the drawing board.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:46 No.15751137
    herbal remedies work really well, in fact so well that we just put them in pills and call them medicine. Anything being done in herb form still is crap.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:49 No.15751188
    Herbs don't work, the stuff in them works very well though.

    Someone might need to look into this but wasn't one of the biggest things causing illness due to malnutrition?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)21:51 No.15751224

    Of course.

    But OP doesn't have pills and medicine. He's got a cowardly and superstitious lot that will believe, to their very cores, that God put onions on the Earth to stop the spread of illness when their sons are dying of the plague.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)22:30 No.15751612
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)22:53 No.15751793
    so wait, a player went and did something behind the party's back, with the outcome resting totally in NPC hands... and it worked out to the party's favor?

    that's bullshit GMing
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)22:56 No.15751826
    No. Thats great GMing. The GM know how people would really act in that situation. Just because something is left in NPC hands, doesn't mean it will end badly. All NPCs are THAT GUY.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)23:11 No.15751957
    >you done goofed and broke team cohesion
    >but it's alright, baby gloves gm is here to kiss it okay
    >have some candy

    seriously, /tg/?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)23:12 No.15751974
    And, we don't actually know for sure if it's honestly that good- could wind up with the PCs being imprisoned, then executed, after an Inquisition.

    Tune in next time, on Engineering The Future's Past.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)23:19 No.15752027
    >One character acts in character and confesses
    >Monks leak info
    >Bishop finds out the info
    >Group can easily guess who spilled the beans
    >Group might not trust the one who told
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)23:21 No.15752045
    calling it now:
    you heard it here first, folks

    how many guys are in the group anyway?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)23:30 No.15752097
    Why would there be conflict if backstabbing gets rewarded (and not only to the backstabber, but to the whole group) by the GM?
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)23:32 No.15752114
    >Currently being investigated by inquisition
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)23:34 No.15752135
    At least three, from what I can tell.

    That being said, if it is the chem major, I will laugh so hard.
    >> Anonymous 07/29/11(Fri)23:44 No.15752220
    I did hear of it. It adds nothing to the enjoyment of the game while deteriorating relations between players.
    >> Anonymous 07/30/11(Sat)00:27 No.15752608
    >> Anonymous 07/30/11(Sat)00:56 No.15752877
    All I have to say is 'haa'

    I have no idea how this is going to work out, but you could do several things.
    -hope your liege and the bishop really like you and this doesn't get spread at all anywhere PERIOD "Uh, yeah, kinda, we're not really sure how it happened... are we going to get burned at the stake now?"
    -call your friend crazy, say he has visions sometimes or something and that he can get a little confused "Prester John picked him because of his piety and knowledge, not his cloud-headedness"
    -hell if I know what you should do, I can't tell a lie to save my life

    >here's hoping you don't die or get maimed horribly, I like the after-action reports
    >> Anonymous 07/30/11(Sat)03:31 No.15754220

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