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    1.63 MB Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:28 No.14977000  
    Alright /tg/, here's the down low. I've been asked to replace a friend in running a SciFi campaign due to family illness. I've spoken with the players, and I've got to say that I really really don't like them. But rather than quit the game, and ruin my other friend's relationship with his players, I'm going to channel my dislike for them into my GMing. To that end, I am going to craft a BBEG that will make them quiver with HATE. Now, I'm trying to work it around all of their peeves, from what my friend has told me. So, here's what I got:

    The character will be human, because two of the players are HERP DERP HUMANS SO BAD

    The character will be a businessman, because one of the players is HERP DERP COMMUNISM

    The character will be an industrialist, because one of the players is HERP DERP TECHNOLOGY BAD

    And the character will treat the players as his lessers, because of all the MARY SUE SO AWESOME LOOK AT ME

    Now. How can I make it even more tweaked to the players? Description in next post.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:29 No.14977020
    You have my sword.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:29 No.14977023
    Make sure he wins, and the players felt the loss was their fault.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:31 No.14977036
    Make their victories into your own. Misdirection into damaging your own fores or their allies
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:31 No.14977040
    Player 1: "Nature Loving Alien Psychic" hippy chick.
    Player 2: "Furfag Lion Sniper Mary Sue" dude
    Player 3: "Feminist Drowtales Mary Sue" chick
    Player 4: "SO COOL 'goth' communist alien face" dude
    Player 5: "Guy who never does jack shit, and yet expects and receives constant praise from the other players, like he's some kind of demigod or something" douchebag

    Now. Please help me /tg/, you're my last hope!
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:32 No.14977054
    Make sure all his stats are at least equal or higher than your players. Give him more levels, like by 10 levels. Also give him access to any resource he would need.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:33 No.14977057

    Shouldn't be so obvious.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:33 No.14977058
    Need to know a system so we know the boundaries of your sci-fi.

    I swear, if you say Star Wars...
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:34 No.14977069
    What system is it?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:34 No.14977071
    Your right... Damn, I'm tired.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:35 No.14977076
    Make the player LIKE him, even though they know what he is.
    He should be infectiously charismatic and play to their own twisted senses of logic, forcing them to like something they hate.

    Also, you ask us for help. We don't give you a solution. We give you tools. Tools to create a solution of your own. Now
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)02:36 No.14977091
    Modified Spycraft.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:36 No.14977095
    Make him have a traditional family.
    With a wife that likes being a stay at home mother.
    Don't make him openly misogynistic, just show a woman satisfied with her accomplishments as a mother.
    I talked about 'Dune' with a feminist once and she was pissed about Jessica being a mother figure devoted entirely to her husband and son. I looked it up and some academic feminists are pissed about that too. Apparently satisfied mothers is how you troll feminists.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:37 No.14977098
    If your PCs are genuinely racist, have the BBEG have a bunch of minions from their race.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:37 No.14977102

    Make player 5 a key element in the campaign; for some reason it centers around him, to the point where all other characters are nigh inconsequential at key points.

    This will highlight his lack of function in the eyes of the others and create resentment.

    The psychic is an alien. Her attempts to invade the minds of another race leave her continually more and more confused, unable to distinguish her thoughts from those of the much louder earthlings.

    Close quarters combat should annoy the sniper easily enough. Bonus points for taking his trigger fingers if he's captured.

    The feminist is a no-brainer. Present her with a challenge of sorts; something martial, like a tournament. Make note that no women are competing. She'll bite, at which point you put her in the ring with Break Mcrushkill and have him mop the floor with her because IT WAS A REALLY STUPID IDEA TO JUST JUMP INTO A TOURNAMENT ON THE FLY.

    Goth communist must be forced to choose between his personal gain and the betterment of the group.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:37 No.14977104
    First one make a lot of his industrial stuff bad for the environment. Given that you have a pile of aliens having him lord human superiority over them couldn't hurt. Have him run Xanatos Gambits where no matter how hard they try the end result is in his favor. And in order to make them hate him even more never have him be mary sueish about it, he doesn't try to stand out too much he is the bored looking guy you don't notice behind a desk.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:37 No.14977108
    Get them to save a forest. Revel to them once they leave that all of the products of the forest are useful only to bio-weaponry.

    Set up an NPC Mayor/President/Head who believes in donating to the poor and helping the needy and have the PCs find out about a plot to assassinate him. Reveal that the NPC was using his charitable works as a front operation for more malicious works like xeno farms and that the assassination team was actually a freedom fighting force. Alternatively the assassination goes as planned and the NPC becomes a beloved martyr whose last words denounced certain values the PCs upheld.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:38 No.14977112
    > But rather than quit the game, and ruin my other friend's relationship with his players...
    >I'm going to purposefully antagonize them, because things will end so much better that way.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:38 No.14977113
    > forcing them to like something they hate.
    Remember, Tony Stark, Iron Man, was specifically made by Stan Lee to be something young'ins hated (a successful businessman, hell, an arms dealer) and then make them LOVE him.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:40 No.14977135
    Say that he came across a terraformed world that had anthro humans living with nature on it. They were tribal and about on the tech level of Native Americans.
    He wiped them out for being an inferior offshoot of humanity and for failing to fully exploit the resources of the planet they were on.
    He fails to see any moral problems with that.
    Say he sold some off for medical experimentation or what have you before wiping the rest out somehow.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:40 No.14977138
    Turn it into a horror game and increase the grittiness 100-fold
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)02:41 No.14977147
    Right, family man. Loving wife, two kids. That sounds good.

    Ooo. I like this. I'll have to think of how to do it though...

    And these ideas are fucking perfect. Dammit, /tg/, why are you so much better at this than me?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:41 No.14977151
    No, too kicking-puppies evil.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:42 No.14977155
    Populate the world with sues just like them. Make their awesomeness so commonplace that they're actually looked down on for being mediocre.

    Just up the ante on the world and watch them squirm, inevitably doing REALLY DUMB THINGS to try and stand out.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:42 No.14977158
    Remember, you will just be seen as THAT DM if you be blatant and obvious about it.

    Be sneaky. Don't just shove it into their faces that you hate them and make a character to antagonize them IRL. Be passive aggressive if they confront you.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:42 No.14977161
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    Just fucking play him as pic related.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:44 No.14977176
    Ok then.
    He convinced the anthros that living in a technocracy is superior to living in a tribe.
    Now enjoying the benefits of modern medicine and commercial goods (provided by him) they now serve him and are his soldiers.
    If the party ends up slaughtering their way through his minions, make his minions a race of Mary Sue anthros.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:45 No.14977184
    Make sure the players have to break into the guy's home and question his stay-at-home wife and children.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:45 No.14977186
    He loves his wife and kids back.

    He'd go out of his way to defend them.

    Also, if the feminist confronts his wife and tells her she's wrong, have her get angry. Also have her be a 8th-degree blackbelt in something, with years of military training.

    One: She can't be beaten even though she is a symbol of something the misandrist hates. I won't call her a feminist, I know decent feminists.

    Two: She was a successful, badass, indepentant women WHO WAS CONTENT AND HAPPY to live the life of a normal meek housewife.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:46 No.14977192
    Because a hivemind can be greater than the sum of its parts. Typically equal too. And often less than.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:47 No.14977202
    Ok OP, here's what you gotta do. Now, first off, from what I've read your players will HATE being forced into doing things. So do it all the time. Make them chose between saving orphans and Native American stand ins, make them have to either allow a village to starve or cure hundreds of sick and dying. And make them think it's their own fault. Make sure to get them into situations, where you can point out their choices later and blame those choices for the dire decisions they must make down the line.

    In other words, make them hate themselves. And be apologetic, but make them live with their choices. They they'll think you the better man.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:47 No.14977205
    Btw, has the campaign begun or is it still in pre game phases? If it's already begun, what's happened so far?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:48 No.14977213
    It'd be funny if the players liked it
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:48 No.14977216
    Kicking-puppies guy here.
    Na'vi, enjoying the good life. That's how you get their goats.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:49 No.14977226

    Yup. Create multi-tiered options.

    All of the options, no matter what, lead to something horrible happening in one way or the other. Indirect is often better. Remember, you can goad them with direct consequences; Opting to stop a tribal war now will result in the united tribes slaughtering someone ELSE later.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:50 No.14977234
    Put one (Possibly 4) into a situation where they must decide between saving a PC (Possibly 2, 3, or 5) or a group of hapless NPCs they've grown attached to. If they select the PC, make the deaths of innocents weigh heavily on them. If they select the innocents, hope for ensuing drama.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:51 No.14977242
    Rule 1: Don't ever mention feminism on /tg/.
    /tg/ has fuck-all idea what it is and hates women.

    I approve of having him be a family man though.
    Because that's always lacking in BBEGs.
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)02:52 No.14977253
    The last story arc ended about two months ago, and my friend the old GM left for another state last week. So I'm running it from now until the end of this storyline.

    The last campaign dealt with investigating the deaths of several high ranking officials in a war crimes council. All while a war was raging on between two powerful species. The players fucked up horribly in their attempts to catch the murderer, and ended up breaking down the beginnings of an attempt at peace between the two warring factions.

    What I've been thinking is that somehow our guy is involved.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:52 No.14977257
    I would suggest something like this:

    They've been assigned to a simple mission. A prominent businessman is buying something their organization wants. The businessman CAN"T die. The team is sent to convince him to not buy the thing.

    This already makes it irritating for Mary Sues, since it limits their options.

    Then, go with what you've been doing. He won't see them without an appointment, his secretary is an airheaded blonde bimbo. He is a capitalist, from a different country (bonus points if he's ex-Communist.)

    If they break into his house, he's happily married, and the team terrifies his wife into womanly hysteria.

    Have the man explain, sparing no details, that he DOES NOT CARE. It's not that he's out to get them, or their organization. He saw an opportunity, and he took it. The only way this is going to change is if they make a better deal, or become so much of a problem that he just buys their organization and fires them.

    I don't know how to work in the tech angle. Maybe he needs land to make a processor plant?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:54 No.14977274
    >(bonus points if he's ex-Communist.)
    Nah, I don't think that would help.
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)02:54 No.14977277
    I like this idea, and I think I can actually work this into the whole 'fucked up political situation' thing.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:55 No.14977282
    > What I've been thinking is that somehow our guy is involved.
    > in keeping two nations at war
    No, seriously, this is important. How does the war benefit him? Is he an arms dealer, ala Tony Stark? No, that won't breed sympathy. Mayhaps he's an exploratory resources procurer? At-war nations don't explore and thus don't compete for FINDING resources as much as BUYING them.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:55 No.14977283
    Man... /tg/ is absolutely sadistic tonight.

    (I love you guys.)
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:55 No.14977285
    >/tg/ has fuck-all idea what it is and hates women
    Anon who brought up feminism.
    I took a university class on it.
    I know what it is. Well, it is a lot of things all crammed under that word really.
    I have had some talks with self-described feminists that you wouldn't believe. I had to spend a whole quarter listening to academic feminists and their post-modern attacks on science and objectivity.
    I know what I'm talking about. You wanna troll the obnoxious ones? Show a traditional wife content raising her children and viewing her successes as a mother as the most important thing in her life.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:56 No.14977295
    >>14977257 me again

    This inspired my tech angle.

    He is selling weapon guidance systems to both sides of the conflict now that hostilities are increasing between the two factions. Not the missiles themselves, just guidance systems.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:56 No.14977298

    Your guy has been behind the scenes pulling the strings, war is good for buisness to the point where the war they started will let this guy build a house out of money then burn it down because he got bored one day. And make him a too smart for his own good arrogant bastard, everything always goes according to plan all the time no matter what.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:57 No.14977306

    >Make the anthros the minions.

    Dude thats perfect, their home planet should be suitably progressive and cosmopolitan, as befits any society with the trappings of modern life. Becauee you know the pcs will try to 'free' them, or perhaps 'get them back to their roots', like any ignorant hippy who thinks scraping in the dirt daily is preferable somehow.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:58 No.14977312
    You know, you're encouraging the OP to sabotage his friend's campaign... IRL trollan for the win.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:58 No.14977313
    Have it be a cold war.
    He sells to both sides, each time he sells a weapon to one side he immediately sells a counter to the other.
    Because he constantly supplies the nations with weapons they have no reason to independently develop stuff, and thus there are no surprises.
    Tensions are high, but no one dies.

    You can fuck with the players too by making it clear that if he dies, shit might hit the fan.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:59 No.14977321
    Did they care about the repercussions of the negotiations breakdown or did they not give a fuck? If they didn't give a fuck then you'll have to go straight for the ego or very close NPCs since they might be too distant from the two factions

    Have a refugee child from the war come up to the PCs and ask to join. Make sure they want him to come along some way or another (through similar views or paralleling stories such as being discriminated). Reveal he's the BBEG's child and was working as a spy the whole time (alt. innocent in the whole matter, but came to end up hating the PCs as well). Have them find out both sides of the war have declared a ceasefire until the PCs are found DOA with the crime of instigating war.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)02:59 No.14977323
    Better yet, have it be SHIP guidance systems. They can be used for missiles, sure, but they're also completely necessary for interstellar travel. Without them, ships can't work.

    And maybe have the players find themselves trapped in their ship with no way of navigating, after they've threatened his family or whatever.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:00 No.14977332
    >No, seriously, this is important. How does the war benefit him? Is he an arms dealer, ala Tony Stark? No, that won't breed sympathy. Mayhaps he's an exploratory resources procurer? At-war nations don't explore and thus don't compete for FINDING resources as much as BUYING them.
    Maybe it's keeping a new war from spreading, to a new sector where many innocents will be killed.
    Or maybe he's supplying money to energy or power, and one side winning would make the other shift to a competitor's company.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:00 No.14977335
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    >talks down to everyone
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:00 No.14977339

    For some reason, my brain didn't fully fire on the Sci Fi angle of the game, so in my head I was thinking of a freshly capitalized Russian businessman. But you're right. Now I don't think it'll work so hot.

    ...Unless his people are a Communist group, and when he learned of Capitalism, he was enamored of it. So he's an outlier, which makes the "betrayal" stronger.

    I could take it or leave it, now.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:00 No.14977340

    As a woman inn academia, there is no greater sin than wanted to be a mother. You run a very real risk of being blackballed for even talking about it.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:01 No.14977346
    Unless you're a biologist, AMIRIGHT?

    We all know how biologists are.
    >> Thermobaric Lemon 05/19/11(Thu)03:01 No.14977349
    any of them religious?

    Trolling theists is always a good way to get people nice and angry.

    also think about how they differ from each other, can you drive them apart. Keep putting them in situations that they hold opposite stances on, then escalate shit really quickly, it'll catch them off guard. They'll be forced to react quickly and probably screw up something major in the process.

    Third option, give them exactly what they want, the commie finds a planet of perfectly happy comunitsts, the hippie finds pandora ect, then pull the rug out from under their feet, throw each of their individiualised nations/races/planets into a large war and force the PCs into situations where they are forced to destroy each others ideal worlds.

    TLDR: Split the party; united we stand, divided we fall.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:02 No.14977355
    You want to really fucking tweak them?
    Don't make him evil.
    He hasn't broken a single law.
    Have them fight their way to his inner sanctum, past dozens of evil looking faceless mooks.
    And when they get there?
    Cops, or town guard or what have you.
    Have them call him out on his "crimes".
    Have him present evidence that either 1. It was someone else breaking the law, not him or his company. or 2. That he had legal permits for EVERYTHING. Clubbing seals? permit. Child labor? permit. Torture chambers for people trying to sell corporate secrets? pushed the bill allowing that through the senate last year.

    Have them overcome all the odds, defeat the evil army...then be thrown in jail for murder and attempted assassination.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:03 No.14977361
    Play up the Merchant of Death angle. He may not be selling the guns, but he's selling the guidance systems... the counter-measures... the ejection seats (useful for trolling the party if they steal one of his ships) as well as... ridiculous amounts of medical supplies and food. Enriched crops, Preservative agents, antibiotic medicine, experimental nanites, etc.

    The best way to make a party feel frustrated with a villain is to put him into a position that "bad guys aren't supposed to have!!11". This would mean every stimpack or Health Kit the players have bought and used would have been funding the villain the whole time.

    All those supplies to the stricken refugees? Padding the villain's pockets so he can fund research on new smart weaponry systems.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:03 No.14977363
    Or if they are all atheists troll them with religion.
    Goes either way really.

    Were all the attractive college women at in the sciences?
    The biology department.
    Seriously. Beats the engineering department hands down.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:03 No.14977364
    So maybe work this in with the guidance system thing. He's trying to make it so the war just stops, forever. Because nobody can outmaneuver the other, and thus cannot open fire without dying themselves.


    Also, as an addition, if the PCs kill him, have your friend make the campaign turn into all-out war because he wasn't around to keep everything from going APESHIT FUCKED UP.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:04 No.14977368

    Hard sciences are a little more forgiving; biological responsibility and continuation of the species are generally respected, there.

    Don't you dare mention having children in liberal arts or social science circles, though. I have a close friend who's an art history major that is barely even welcome in the art history department at Rutgers because she's daft enough to think that being a mother is a respectable thing.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:05 No.14977375
    And make him talk like Cave Johnson.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:06 No.14977376
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    Do what made Mass Effect 2 so awesome. Make exactly what you just said and make them their boss. They don't have to like it, in fact it's better if they hate it but they have to do it. Make them do a job where they end up owing him somehow, make it delicious.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:06 No.14977377
    That's probably because there are no women in engineering, it's like the internet only more so.
    Biology women are only so hot because they're imaginary.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:06 No.14977381

    "My company has supplied every firearm the marine corps have used for the last 150 years. You and I both know that every marine is a rifleman first...which means that every marine belongs to me. You are no exception."
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:06 No.14977382

    You're thinking of /adv9k/. /tg/ historically hasn't been that bad, and I've seen it at least have civilized conversations about it. At the very least, it was "I think x is an unfair statement because y" and not slutshaming spam like most boards.

    I do know what you mean, about the second-wave holdout types. Being told what you're supposed to want based on gender, it gets old, and that's the whole point of the movement in the first place; reversing the gender roles involved is not a fundamental solution. But I'm not willing to throw the whole movement out because of those stragglers, you know?


    As a grad student, my experience has been that you risk being blackballed for virtually anything and everything. It's like middle school, but your income is tied to your popularity. Fuck this shit, I'm jumping out after the MA.
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)03:06 No.14977383
    >Have them overcome all the odds, defeat the evil army...then be thrown in jail for murder and attempted assassination.


    I mean, ahem, good idea. That could happen about halfway through, I think.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:06 No.14977384

    Well communist usually = atheist.

    It's probably a mixed group.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:07 No.14977393

    I think that's just because the job market's less tight there than it is in the liberal arts.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:07 No.14977396
    > Communist = Atheist.
    There is no reaction image.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:08 No.14977398
    arms dealers don't want to stop wars, they want to keep them going for ever, always giving discount to the side that is losing
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:08 No.14977406
    Maybe he makes medi-kits. They're good quality, and he sells them to both sides. Maybe they're a bit too good. Maybe he needs to keep encouraging the opposite sides to blow holes in each other just so he can continue to make a profit.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:09 No.14977411
    >Now. How can I make it even more tweaked to the players?

    Don't even give him stats.

    You're done now. Just go with what you have.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:09 No.14977418
    blood diamond.mkv
    seriously though war profiteering is most commonly done by buying things like conflict diamonds or oil rites. Desperate nations will sell resource rich lands for cheap so they can buy weapons
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:10 No.14977424
    To top it off, at some point towards the middle or 2/3 point have the villain offer the PC's a way out of the campaign/ conflict. The PC's should be forced to choose between ending their conflict with the BBEG on decent terms (though they fail in defeating him or accomplishing some of their larger objectives...) or refusing his offer. This refusal would lead to the villain eventually being defeated, but at a much steeper cost than simply compromising or accepting his offer.

    Then there's moral conflict. They got their bloody revenge, but a lot of good people would have suffered as a result.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:12 No.14977434
    He sells medical supplies.
    >> Thermobaric Lemon 05/19/11(Thu)03:15 No.14977454
    play the escalation game; no matter what they do the cold war they're trying to end just keeps warming up as a direct result of their actions.
    Two warring nations sign a peace treaty?
    >> Popular uprising in one of the nations reignites the war much much worse than before because the high level leadership is gone
    Unite a diverse group for the common good?
    >> they turn on their neighbors and enslave them
    rally a group of armies to destroy and incoming alien fleet.
    >> It was a refugee fleet fleeing an enemy who rewards the PCs for committing genocide by destroying the fleet.
    PCs hassle big bads family
    >> things get out of hand suddenly, BBEG's kid gets killed in the cross fire.
    PCs are arested on trumped up charges and escape from an (obviously) easy to escape from prison
    >> They are now wanted fugatives and are activly hunted by the best cops the galaxy has

    I can go on all day man
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:16 No.14977468
    Exactly this. He's a normal, mortal man. He doesn't have magical superpowers, or the ability to take a dozen bullets to the face and be fine. He doesn't have the power to read minds, and can't throw a truck with one hand. He can't teleport, turn invisible, or otherwise avoid the PCs.

    If they get him alone, he dies with one shot.

    The only thing he has going for him is his intellect and charm. That's it. Nothing else.

    He's totally, completely human.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:18 No.14977485
    Make the villain run a medical company. But no super-plagues or cliche nonsense. He simply sells medical supplies.... but because his company has such clout he can blackball and manipulate other nations/ political entities by raising or lowering his prices, and withholding stock

    "Oh we're having a shortage right now. Since it hasn't been fully approved by your government there wasn't much point in stockpiling it. But if it was approved and we got a contract for a large order we'd be more than capable of shifting production to meet your needs. Pandemics are such terrible things."

    The medicine is approved, he makes bank, lives are saved (save for a truly miniscule .001% of patients who had adverse reactions such as nerve damage). end of story
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:20 No.14977505

    The final showdown goes down with a whimper; a party of overpowered, zealous, mad-dog killing machines gunning down a man in a suit with a wife and two kids a week before his oldest daughter graduates from the eighth grade.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:22 No.14977516
    The BBEG never remembers who the fuck the party is. Ever.

    He's a busy guy.
    >> No Man 05/19/11(Thu)03:22 No.14977519
    ...if you want to extra-strength PC blueball them, make it so that his control of both sides of the 'arms race' does not only ensure that the cold war stays cold, but that it is his hope that if he does this for long enough, both sides will forget why they're fighting/come to terms peacefully. Best-case scenario, he wants Eastern Europe & Russia, 1989.

    If there's one thing a PC can't like, it's a regular human, with gradual change and stable plans... who upstages them.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:22 No.14977525
    And as a final "Fuck You" to the PCs, all the footage in his house of them killing him is sent to every news station in the galaxy as soon as his heart stops.

    The media will have a fucking field day.


    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:22 No.14977526
    I'm ok with this
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:24 No.14977535
    A good angle for this would be that he has a subsidiary company that purchases large tracts of arable land and there are slumlike refugee camps there and the land is worked by these same refugees.

    The truth is that his corporation is creating neutral zones for civilians and the arable land is there to make the camps self-sufficient. The squalor is due to them being either new or in a dangerous war zone which is inundated with refugees. If they try to free them make the 'escapees' get gunned down as suspected terror cells operating outside the camps. If they try to get the people to stop working make them panic because they have to and create a food riot.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:24 No.14977537
    That's a great trope because nothing pisses off PC's than being ignored. As a DM you bust your ASS to make a memorable villain for the characters to battle, and half the time they barely pay attention.

    Turnabout is always fair play.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:24 No.14977541

    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:25 No.14977546
    Okay so for maximum trolling you're going to need to be subtle and stick within the confines of both your universe and within your BBEG spheres of influence and knowledge.

    Player 1: I assume that it's one of the "humans bad" players. Play that shit up, don't be over the top though, have him react as a normal person would when confronting a racist. Have him point out the specism but not make it the point of every interaction. Instill paranoia about the possiblity of psychic influence on the other party members. Highlight the absurdity of a high-tech nature lover - loves nature from the comfort of indoor plumbing, temperature control and bug spray.
    Player 2: On the furry angle declare that at best he is seen as a mobile stuffed animal; he's good for a purpose, but isn't a real being, just something to be used and discarded. At worst he's a living sex toy, the product of some geneticist with a fetish. Play with the sniper role. If cold sniper talk about how he's a murdering voyeur eagerly watching from afar before killing in a parody of the normal sexuality he doesn't experience. If friendly sniper talk about how uses it as a cover for the fact he has no qualms about killing people and it's just the act of a sociopath. Either way bring up the notion that he's just a simple murderer who doesn't have the balls to put himself in danger with the other infantry.

    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:26 No.14977556
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    Solving problems...without shooting or hitting anyone with a medieval weapon?
    The monster.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:26 No.14977557

    Player 3: Trolling feminists is easy but obvious, don't take the easy route here. Make notes of her philosophy; I assume she'll have lots to say about it all the time, and look for contradictions and implications. She'll probably talk about a matriarchy at some point, bring up the inherent unfairness of any system the elevates one group of people over another. Her matriarchy will probably be perfect and peacefully and perfectly peaceful; ask her if the sniper or any other violent people/men would have a place in her world.

    Player 4: I assume he's the other "human bad" player; specist stuff applies. Ask him how he has uplifted the working class. He's probably a well off kid who is rebelling against his parents, bring that up. Point out that giving a bum a quarter and donating your threadbare clothes to charity and then proclaiming you're doing a service to the poor doesn't show how much you care. It's an insult to the poor to think that all they need are your hand-me-downs and the change from your latte to have a better existence.

    Player 5: Point out he does jack shit. Ignore him. Come up with situations in which he can contribute nothing. Have your BBEG forget he's a part of the group. When reminded have BBEG ask him what he's done lately.
    >> No Man 05/19/11(Thu)03:28 No.14977562

    Bonus points: make it like China's 'work abuse.'

    Sure, they're working in what you would call 'inhumane conditions,' but only from your developed-country perspective. If you improve work conditions, a lot of those jobs go away. When only ten hundred workers remain employed because safety is expensive, you still have ten thousand other, angry unemployed people.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:29 No.14977571
    Have them find reports that he's going to "The Compound" Every few days.

    The Compound is a lake house where his family lives away from his corporate rivals. He's spending time with his kids.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:30 No.14977577
    gunna throw this out op cause i was thinking of implementing it myself;
    have them face a vigilante ala the punisher
    In an early gun fight they cause a couple of innocent bystanders get hit, two of them are a kid and his mom, the father is badly wounded but survives.
    Three months later guess who shows up at the parties doorstep with a full load of advanced military gear. Oh yeah, and the best part?
    He fights like the punisher.
    They get into a ship: Roll a spot check: Failed, nothing happens. once they break atmos their comms are funny, if they do nothing, BOOOM bomb in the cargo hold blows them out orbit.
    They're following up leads: Reflex check; IED goes off right next to them followed by a rain of grenades and machine gun fire.
    If these attacks fail to kil anyone (they should, or if they do kill off friendly NPCs) keep them scared, keep them running.

    Oh yeah, and the just to keep them on their toes, drop hints that someone on the team is working with him (one guy always gets missed by machine gun bursts, just so happens to find large stacks of cash in his room, gets a lot of suspicious calls ect.)

    Like that one guy said, turn em against each other and they'll hate them rather than hating you.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:32 No.14977584
    That would be the end scene, though. He moved his family far from their former home after the PCs busted in and tried to threaten them last time. They're still traumatized, and he's done everything he can to help, but they can't get over having five people with guns they ripped off of tanks busting into their home, their place of safety, and tearing it up looking for their husband/father.

    And then when the PCs come, they freak out, and the bad guy tries to beg the PCs to kill him away from his family, so they won't have to watch.

    Make them feel like SHIT.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:33 No.14977588

    Obviously. But do it. It's good.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:33 No.14977590

    These are furries, a feminist, and goth.

    They don't have normal morality.
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)03:36 No.14977600
    That actually sounds like the perfect ending.

    No explosions happening, no evil minions, just a guy begging them to not kill him in front of his terrified family. And when they pull him outside to shoot him, I'll have his wife try and fight off the far stronger intruders.

    All while the kids are crying, and the father tries to reassure them that it'll be fine, don't worry, just remember last summer when we went fishing at the lake.
    >> No Man 05/19/11(Thu)03:36 No.14977603
    Now archived, under 'Making the Perfect Villain (tm)'

    How do you make a villain your PCs love to hate? Make him their antithesis, and then make him a perfectly normal human being.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:38 No.14977613
    Welcome to the Dresden Industrial Development firm. We scour the galaxy for underdeveloped planets and species that have yet to reach their full potential and help them jump start their path to modern civilization. So far we have successfully uplifted fifteen different races/ In fact we have been so successful that our customers often become loyal partners, a whopping 75% of our staff are of these uplifted races and are now enjoying a standard of living for them and their families they could previously only dream of

    The Villain is not actively encouraging the war but is providing PMCs from the uplifted races. But even for the new soldiers for the PMCs the life expectancy has increased ten fold from where it was before and they are all volunteers. Enlisting so they can afford the fantastic medicines and technology DID is offering them. Also many of the tools of war are produced on these newly developed planets and if demand was to drop they would quickly regress into deep world shattering depressions. But without the supply of cheap men and guns the two races would quickly lose taste for war
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:39 No.14977616
    Ok, now you're just mindraping their emotions.

    And I like it. Let them see the real victims of their actions. Unarmored and unarmed. Not trying to fight back, only trying to spare his family the sight of him being killed.

    This is player cruelty at its finest.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:41 No.14977629
    When this happens make him say something like 'did a competitor hire you? eco terrorists? nationalist extremists?'
    Even then make it clear that he doesn't recognize them or know anything about them.
    They are just thugs murdering him in his home.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:42 No.14977640
    gotta have a kid try to get between the killers and its father for extra bad feelings
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:43 No.14977650
    But if he dies that would be catharsis. They would feel justified and that they had 'won' no matter how bad the world is afterward.

    No, for ultimate rage he has to win.

    As the endgame is approaching have a lot of stuff going on. Dozens of minor details like they start finding their phones tapped and shit. Make it so they can investigate about 3/4 of them but NOT all. If they investigate all of the little things showing up then the bad guy's plan will have enough time to complete and you can say "Well you could have stopped him if you weren't running around chasing after X."

    Then as the final showdown or whatever happens make it so the thing they didn't investigate comes back to bite them in the ass HARD and they lose because of it. Then you get to say, "Well, if you had investigated the wiretaps that were being placed in your phones you would have /known/ that he had bribed a special forced commando unit to capture you, but instead you chose to try to break into a heavily guarded compound while you were already being targeted for assassination."

    For bonus points have him bring them into his workshop after being captured and personally do a speech like, "You threatened my family, the most precious thing in the world to me. That's why death isn't good enough for you. I'm going to make you into what you hate." Double bonus points if you have them "roll to escape" but no roll will be ever good enough anyway.

    He then surgically alters them and implants control chips and shit. Next campaign they are fighting against their old now-fanatical henchman characters.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:44 No.14977655
    And then when the PCs explain all the shit they went through, like you know they would, how they followed his trail from X to Y for months, have him just look up at them and say.

    "Oh. I thought that was (Corporation Z)'s goons."
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:45 No.14977660
    PCs are closing in on the BBEG who pleads that they let him go, they of course refuse.
    Hes corneerd in his lake house compound, hes surounded and cut off, the PCs know this, he knows this.
    So he decides to die with dignity, and hangs himself from the gate, no final speech, no goodbye, hes just dead.

    For bonus points his family is there with him, and depending on DM cruelty they kill themselves too.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:47 No.14977666

    And then all the players rage quit.

    Is that the plan by the way because thats whats going to go down with all this shit being done IG.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:48 No.14977676
    No, I want to make them do it. I want them to having their characters look into his children's eyes, see how they love their father, and then pull the trigger.

    I want them to abandon all pretenses of being on the Moral High Ground. I want to see them struggle to find another way, to convince the children that they're in the right, while the man just sits there staring at his family. And then they kill him, and the family starts crying.

    And I'm not even the OP.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:49 No.14977694
    You're a sick motherfucker.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:51 No.14977706
    Dude, you know they won't give a shit right? I appreciate what you are trying to do, but it won't matter. They will high five and say "Fuck yeah, shot that little bastard right in front of his family. Serves him right after he jerked us around all this time."

    PCs are fucking sociopaths.

    No, if he dies then they 'win' and the rage goes away. If you want them to rage ultimately then they have to lose. Ideally after an extremely hard struggle. Even better if you then give an epilogue where all their efforts were meaningless and the BBEG doesn't even lose a weeks worth of overall profit because of them.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:51 No.14977707
    so melodramatic and dumb, sorry but honestly who is going to hang themselves on the gate to their lake house with their family inside. PCs are about to storm his lake house, There are no guards there is no fight. He steps out the front door dressed in a nice suit and gives up peacefully on the condition they let his family go. No matter what they do at this point his plans will succeed, to some degree all the PCs can manage to do is make his plans be less effective making the world a WORSE place
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:51 No.14977708

    I'm not him, or the OP, but I'm with that guy.

    It's gotta be the PC's. This whole thing is meaningless if they can keep the moral high ground.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:52 No.14977720

    It's the fucking BBEG, he's done all sorts of evil shit!

    I wouldn't give two fucks about Hitlers family or Stalins family. To make his death a 'moral conundrum you have to make it so he wasn't all that evil really, and then he's not a fucking BBEG is he?

    And the games only going to get this far if the players don't fucking rage quit before hand!
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:53 No.14977728
    The uplifting of the races could also increase overall population of each species much more than the wars cost. So in reality he is creating life with war profiteering. Or rather, its the races themselves are profiteering and he is profiting off of their success
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:53 No.14977729
    The solution is simple then.

    They kill him, and he still wins. His plans go off without a hitch, because the PCs were too busy KILLING AN UNARMED MAN IN FRONT OF HIS FAMILY.

    They might have stopped him, might have saved the day, but they chose to be selfish, vengeful assholes. And it cost them dearly.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:56 No.14977745

    So its going to be, "Whatever they do, they'll lose"?

    What if they like this turn? I'd like it if something like this went down in one of my games.

    A villan everyone hates with actual repercussions, brilliant!
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:56 No.14977746
    What you fail to understand is that you can't take the moral high ground away from them with some stunt like that. Their actions justify themselves and they have the ultimate manifest destiny. People they kill are evil, always. Even children. Hell, especially children.

    From their viewpoint anyone who tries to stop them is in the wrong, even if the entire world turns against them they will be righteous underdogs.. It's just the PC mentality, ESPECIALLY the mary-sue PC mentality.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:56 No.14977747
    Well, what if you have the final scene, they have the man on his knees, family watching, they are gonna kill him...then have real heroes bust in to save the day.

    Personal Bodyguards, Special Forces, something. Stun Grenades, tasers, the whole nines. All non-lethal but super potent stuff, have the whole group put down like a terrorist group. Make sure you end with the family crowding the wounded BBEG and hugging, have him kiss his children and crying and so thankful.

    Let em try and win the old school Mary Sue way....then ruin their shit in the best of the "Big Damn Heroes" moments the PCs usually pull.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:57 No.14977753
         File1305791828.jpg-(25 KB, 324x324, atlas-shrugged[1].jpg)
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    You...you just described John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged.
    Run that.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:57 No.14977754
    Since he owns a majority in the company the control would go to his wife or children. Have his young son (19 or something) take control of the company along with a board of directors. Have him punishing everything he can to get revenge. This gives a chance to continue the campaign. He would be sending murder squads to kill them. Make sure they split the useless one off or something. Also they will be constantly busy just trying to save what little they can from the vengeful child.

    Ooooooh, neat roleplaying idea. When they are captured take them into another room one at a time and roleplay a sort of interrogation. See how it goes down but if one of them does manage to escape, let them but they can't say anything to the other players. Then have everyone put into a mutual cell and told that their friend sold them out.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:59 No.14977765
    Oh god yes.

    And if the psychic tries to read their minds, she sees exactly how they see her: A terrorist fuck, who threatened an innocent man and his family, destroyed millions of dollars in property, tore through people just doing their jobs by the thousands, and now tries to act like it was all some random businessman's fault.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)03:59 No.14977769
    Nah, letting them kill him in a completely meaningless and empty victory is the way to go.
    Killing someone doesn't make their company collapse. It will do nothing to murder him in front of his kids.
    And if vids of them executing a man begging to be shot out of sight of his family are made public then the PCs will be the #1 wanted criminals.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:00 No.14977771
    Well thread's over I guess.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:02 No.14977784
    If he dies, and the PC's become ridiculously wanted criminals, they'll have no way to really continue the campaign in any semblance of an orderly fashion.

    He lives, they walk/ hobble/ run away, they're forced to go do other adventures while he sits on Space Larry King talking about his latest product, his traumatic near death experience, and a new charity for troubled youths he's opening. Complete with a scholarship program.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:02 No.14977786
    >completely meaningless and empty victory
    You just don't get it man. If they hate him then it won't be empty and meaningless. It will be their main objective of the whole campaign, and if they off him then it won't matter what happens afterward because they will feel awesome and have won against the guy they hated.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:02 No.14977788

    So everyone thinks they're terrorists? So why the fuck are they fighting the BBEG? Why do THEY think they are in the right? Have they not seen all the good things this guys done? What's the PC's motivation for any of this is the average guy likes the BBNG?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:03 No.14977796

    if the*
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:03 No.14977799
    All while the PC's stare at the vidscreen and think ".... I really, really hate that guy."
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:04 No.14977803
    This guy is -slightly- involved in their latest fuck up. And as PCs, they NEED someone to blame.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:04 No.14977805

    This idea works. Give the kid a bad ass mentor. Personal friend of his father, former TACT (Tactical Assault and Counter Terrorist) Commando. Sorta Big Boss, chain smoking sonuvabitch whose got guns, manpower, and a hard on for killing "shit-eating terrrorist chucklefucks." When he finally does kill one of the PCs, make sure he growls, "This is for <BBEG>, Cocksucker!"

    Shit....you're playing a much better game, OP.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:05 No.14977813
    Okay. How about this. The PCs storm the lakehouse. The BBEG walks out while his terrified family watches from the front door. He doesn't give them some melodramatic villain speech, he just berates them for being the pack of peace-disturbing, life-ruining jackasses that they are. And right as they're about to shoot them, floodlights go down, containment fields go up, and before they know it they've been bundled up in the pack of FBI-equivalent hovercraft that responded when the BBEG called 911. A short trial and a largely pointless appeals process later, they're all sentenced to death.

    If you really want to rub salt in the wound, let 'em squirm for a few sessions, coming up with plans to break out and get their own back. Let 'em fail. And each time they fail, twist the knife a bit with news from outside. The furry character's species has a new hero, an entrepreneur who just entered a lucrative partnership with the BBEG and is set to make his people bookoo bucks. The ridiculous feminist hears the opposite; some high-powered female friend of hers has a bun in the oven, and is stepping out of the limelight to raise the kid. And it all ends with each of them getting a lethal injection. No saves, no last words, no ceremony. Identical by-the-book assembly line deaths for each of them, just like all the other namelss transgressors.

    Except the useless guy though. He never went to trial. The cops turned him loose the day after the lakehouse incident. I mean, fuck, look at this schmoe. They clearly just kidnapped him and brought him along as a meat shield. If he tries to bust his buddies out, let his failure end with him lying dead in the gutter from some tweaker's rusty knife, unmarked and unmourned.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:06 No.14977818

    So the DM's just gonna go, "THAT GUYS THE BBNG! KILL HIM!" then at the end go, "Lol no he's not!"

    How would the characters NOT know he was doing good shit too? You guys are making him too fucking normal and not evil in the slightist! A fucking 'Big Bad Normal Guy'.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:06 No.14977819

    So finding and killing <BBEG> would only be the first half.

    And then they have to run, run, run through the jungle. Or get shot in the back as they go.
    >> No Man 05/19/11(Thu)04:08 No.14977828

    Just because the BBEG is repugnant to them does not mean he is repugnant to everyone.

    Plus, everyone else sees them as highly dangerous conspiracy nuts.
    Take the conspiracies about oil and energy companies, apply to agribusiness.

    Or something like that.

    tl;dr: they might be a hero to the resistance, but they just removed the stabilizing force in a cold war/medicine manufacturer/philanthropist par excellence.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:08 No.14977829
    Ok, here's the PC thought process:

    "Oh, he's involved in -my- fucking up X. He must be EVIL."

    "He donates to charity? Such a great cover, he must be even EVILLER."

    "He has a family? WHAT A BASTARD."
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:10 No.14977839
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    Have him doing good things not because they are good but because A. they are profitable and B. they are good press.

    Have him own many small fishing subsidieries allow the coast of an agricultural belt, he also can have his fingers in the local agrobusiness if you want. There are some deadzones forming on the coast because of fertilizer run off over eutrifying the water. He decides to build large water purification plants along this Mississippi analog to take the fertilizers and pollutants out of the water. He then grows bacteria on the sludge and ferments them for alcohol that is sold as an industrial chemical and as fuel. This has reduced the dead zones and local fishermen love this guy, so of course he makes they subsidieries and buys them boats now that they are part of the corporate family but he takes 50% of their profits.

    Have his mercenary armies stopping genocide and tribal war, after all dead people can't buy food. And stable nations run buy more arms to stockpile them, but never use them. And since their enemies have lots of guns too, they should make sure to update their war material every few years to ensure their own defense.
    >> THAT DM 05/19/11(Thu)04:11 No.14977850
    I love you, /tg/.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:11 No.14977852
    Actually, I would go with the punisher-idea. Only not so directly.
    Don't make BBEG evil. Make him ambitious. E.g. he was working on the peace treaty very hard, using some shady resources as well because if the treaty is signed, he gets promoted. Party fucked 'em up good, BBEG gets angry, takes it personally.
    PC's are usually lazy bastards. Well, mine are. Use it. If they don't say everynight they check their phones for wiretaps, have it done.
    Bring'em out in public, make them useless for their organisation, have them go rogue, have the BBEG profit out of it ("The United Nations have found those responsible for the quickly deteriorating relations between 'umies 'n orkz. The Chief Secretary has issued a warrant for these armed and extremely dangerous individuals. If you see them, report it to the nearest police officer! On other news, Frank DeMoira has been promoted to be the security advisor of the Chief Secretary.") make it personal for them, and when they figure out a plan, use its errors against them. The best part: BBEG isn't evil, he's just doing his job, with a clear conscience, with a loving family.

    Whatever Shadowrun tells us, you cannot win against an organisation forever.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:13 No.14977862
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    Hi OP. This is your character portrait.
    >> THAT DM 05/19/11(Thu)04:13 No.14977869
    >Whatever Shadowrun tells us, you cannot win against an organisation forever.

    Well, you can, but the cure tends to be worse than the disease.
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)04:14 No.14977875
    Wow /tg/. I just...

    So many amazing ideas. Words fail me.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:15 No.14977879
    which direction do you think you will head?
    >> No Man 05/19/11(Thu)04:15 No.14977881

    ...this is turning into 'Great Moments in Hobbesian Political Thought.' More commonly known as 'long-term selfishness looks a lot like selflessness.'

    Also, just personal experience, but the types of people playing tend to care more about the intentions behind the deed, not the deed itself. To wit, colonialism lifted a lot of nations out of crushing poverty at the cost of natural resources. Do you care if they only gave you modern medicine to have reliable workers, or do you care that they gave it to you at all?
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)04:18 No.14977898
    I don't even know. There's just so much of it all.

    I'll definitely keep the Lake House, in some form or another.

    And I'll use the Uplifting thing.

    But apart from that? There's a lot of stuff here to look at, it might take a while. Maybe I'll even use all of it.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:20 No.14977911

    Guys, guys... can you imagine what humonguous that DM thread we have incoming as soon as this campaign is over?

    >boohoo DM didn't let us win herpderp
    >yep, mofos, we told your DM to crush your faces. u mad?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:22 No.14977925
    I love you /tg/. So much.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:23 No.14977929
         File1305793408.png-(106 KB, 500x500, Indonesian Gentleman's Art.png)
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    Here OP. I had Indonesian Gentleman make this for you.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:23 No.14977932
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:24 No.14977933
    And name the man Patrick Sisemen. For he is truly a oble nemesis.
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)04:24 No.14977934
    Wow, that's really good.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:25 No.14977937
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    PC: You sell the arms that allow the ignorant and misguided to kill each other!

    BB: Then I would say that their enemy is their ignorance not my weapons. Perhaps you should battle that. But I suppose it is easier to hate a man for his mistakes then the collective mistakes of many men. And it is such a hard battle to fight, I know, because while you play hero I spend millions to save the few I can and few ways I know how.

    PC: You knowingly collude with murderers, terrorists, and despots.

    BB: I would honestly prefer that people didn't fire my guns in anger, or that if they did they miss. But who am I to say their grievances are not important, that their causes are not just? Has no good ever come out of the barrel of gun? I hardly would have thought you of all people would hold that opinion given your actions thus far. The bane of humanity is the necessity to evil in order to do any good.

    PC: We aren't like you, we aren't human!

    BB: Given the precedent I have witnessed on this planet, I must beg to differ. All that is great and terrible in humanity I see reflected in you. So I must do what all men have trying to do, the best I can. And though I might fail, I will have tried.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:25 No.14977938
    which uplifting thing?
    >> No Man 05/19/11(Thu)04:28 No.14977947

    18th-century colonialism, but nicer-ish.

    Instead of destroying the Indian textile industry, the British make bank selling their stuff as a high-end consumer good, give them food, modern medicine, and technology in exchange for favorable trade contracts, and everybody goes home happy.
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)04:32 No.14977954

    These ones:

    Not sure why, just sort of rings true.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:33 No.14977962
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    This. A million times this.

    I recently did this in a campaign that I'm running. I know it is a rather early thing in the thread to reference, but it caught my eye. One of the henchmen of the BBEG in my campaign is an honorable, wise, and just person. He hates [country] and so he works against them, but has not sacrificed his honor/personality. He's not some crazy psychopath like most of the villains, he is a reasonable, perhaps even kind, man.

    The players like him, but they know that they'll have to dispose of him someday. One of them (who is secretly working with him!) is likely going to try and "save" him from himself.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:33 No.14977965
    oh god this is brilliant.

    OP, do this, fucking do this.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:35 No.14977980
    Have the BBEG gain popular support from the masses.

    Also, have the PCs end up fighting the worst twisted versions of themselves that they have to kill.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:38 No.14977993
    We done good /tg/. We've helped a noble cause. To make players RAEG at a GM who won't put up with their bullshit.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:38 No.14977998
    Whatever you do, make the PCs end up hating themselves. Make the BBEGs motive completely rational and have people grieve over his death. Have the BBEG give a last speech the describes how he was only trying to help and have him call for his wife and children as he dies.
    >> No Man 05/19/11(Thu)04:38 No.14977999

    tl;dr: I sell guns, I don't sell the intent to use them?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:39 No.14978010
    >yep, mofos, we told your DM to crush your faces. u mad?

    This is the only circumstance in which I think a thread of 150 "u mad" images would be totally appropriate to /tg/.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:41 No.14978025
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    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:42 No.14978035
    Is that fucking Ayn Rand?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:44 No.14978042
    The blade itself incites to deeds of violence, apparently.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:46 No.14978049
    I don't think so. That would be fitting though.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:46 No.14978054
    Human male, committed relationship for twenty plus years with wife and children (two or three). Businessman who deals with technology development for many different avenues of life (one may be the reason the PCs start after him). He'll only treat the players as his lessors because he truly understands that they don't know what they're talking about. Start the conflict of hate toward the BBEG with a misunderstanding. Perhaps they witness testing on live subjects. What they might not know is that they were volunteers so that they could progress the curing of some illness which is killing children and the elderly of these races.

    Bring out that hate so hard that when they find out that he was the most shining pinnacle of good, they'll feel as if they'd slaughtered a million small fuzzy animals.

    Make them hate themselves...
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:47 No.14978056
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    I know that it doesn't exactly fit, but OP, I think this should be your character portrait for the BBEG.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:56 No.14978104
    >Implying I'm going to read this thread

    In case no one has already said it: the trolliest troll you could troll into your party is to make this character both EVERYTHING THEY HATE, and also a better man than them. I don't mean stats, either: Make him the Hero of the People, make him loved and adored by everyone, and above all make sure that he deserves all the adulation.

    Don't make him an enemy "because he's evil". Make him just be at cross-purposes to the PC's. Hell, if at all possible, slowly manipulate the PC's until THEY are evil, and THEY are the villains. And have him be the hero who's saving the country/planet/whatever from the crazy eco-communist-luddite-terrorist brigade.

    Show them that everything they believe in is wrong. And then have your glorious BBEG set it right.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:56 No.14978106
    More than that. Is all bloodshed completely wrong. Are all revolutions instantly tainted just because they use violence.

    All the communist revolutions failed and fell into despotism, the French revolution turned into a deluge of blood and the new republic collapsed.

    But the revolution in Britain was not very ambitious, instead of promising everyone freedom and happiness it merely promised, "the king will not fuck the nobles as much, and the nobles will not fuck the landed peasants as much." And it worked.

    The American revolution might seem petty compared to the idealistic bullshit anarchists, socialists, and communists spout: it was all about taxes. We don't want to pay for something unless we have token representation in the House of Commons. That was pretty much it.

    Little petty revolts and wars are more honest with themselves, and in the end achieve more because they don't promise things will get better. They just say we will try are damnedest to make them so, in a tiny almost unnoticeable way.

    That despot doesn't want some ecotopia furfag fantasy he just wants order, so he can abdicate after an actual election in 10 years, knowing he did the hard thing but the right thing. He killed thousands to secure the future of millions.

    Those guerrillas don't want communist revolt and empty promises, just a bit of land to squat on.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:58 No.14978115
    Better, the people being tested were actually clones.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)04:59 No.14978123
    Or family...
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:03 No.14978138
    a lot of this thread is pure awesome, but you have to remember to actually make him a BBEG too. Making him some saint, is probably not going to work. Make him have good AND bad sides. Just more good sides.

    I really liked the idea of happy satisfied housewife.

    Showing him doing humane things like visiting his family at the "compound" was also great.

    Great idea to not give him superpowers or hordes of superguards. Let him be successful without being a mary sue.

    Human technocratic industrialist. Does a lot of good throughout the known worlds. Maybe his company does terraforming, and planets in the area are dangerously overpopulated. Maybe the terraforming is displacing some native americans, while creating room for one of the sides in an overpopulation-induced war on another planet.

    Or if you want the slightly less high power variant, make him a brilliant scientist who cares more about discovery than consequences. He ll research anything, and HAS researched multiple cures-for-cancer and so on, but also a few bioweapons. At the same time being a family man and a patron of the arts, donator to charities etc. Showcase the bioweapon aspect to ferment the PCs hatred of him, and make it all blow up in their face once they v antagonized him and/or destroyed him, by letting them find out all the good things hes also done.

    point is, he needs BAD SIDES too. Else he wont be appropriate as a bad guy.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:03 No.14978144
    This thread has been brilliant and a good read.

    OP, no matter if your plan succeeds or fails, please post the results on /tg/.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:07 No.14978153
    >Perhaps they witness testing on live subjects. What they might not know is that they were volunteers so that they could progress the curing of some illness which is killing children and the elderly of these races.

    *One breakout later*
    "What... What's going on? Where am I? Where are you taking me?"
    "Don't worry, we're freeing you. Everything will be fine."
    "What? No, no, I have to go back!"
    "No one will make you go back, everything is fine. It's going to be all right."
    "But... The tests, they aren't done. I have to go back!"
    "Don't worry, they can't make you go back, they can't keep anyone prisoner ever again! You don't have to go anywhere you don't want to!"
    "What do you mean? What are you talking about?"
    "We /dealt with them/, they won't be running any more of those tests on anyone, I assure you of that."
    "But... But what about the children?!"
    "We... We didn't see any children while we were in there. I'm sorry, we must have been to late."
    "What? Children in there? What the hell are you talking about? We need to cure the children!"
    And then PCs were the BBEGs.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:10 No.14978171
    >And then everyone had already been saying this for the past like fifty posts

    Oh well. I guess it was still a good idea, even if everyone else already had it first.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:15 No.14978191
    He still needs to be a villain. For instance suppose he engineered a "gang war" in order to lower property prices in a city? Then bought it all up, and gentrified it?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:17 No.14978201
    Correction: He needs to be an opponent for the PCs. Just because the party is fighting an NPC does not make the NPC a villain.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:22 No.14978212
    It took THIS LONG for someone to mention him? I only just got here, and after 3 minutes I thought "just play Xanatos."

    I second this motion.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:23 No.14978219
    the perfect villain is a mortal man
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:24 No.14978220
    The man who died at the lake house was his brother.

    They are similar, but not exactly the same. He vows vengeance.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:24 No.14978225
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    BB: What would you have me do, hero? Descend on high with my machines, my men, my guns; like some angel passing down the judgment of the Gods. To smash their armies and states, and wag my finger at them like an indulgent parent as I do so? To tell them that their feuds are unimportant, that they are unimportant, that their wishes don't matter and as such shouldn't sweat it? To take all they held dear and smash it? To take from them the very freedom to love or hate who they would for their own reasons?

    Or perhaps you would have me do nothing and watch as disease and famine kill millions more than my weapons ever will. To watch them from on high, not as an avenging angel but and aloof god, laughing at their primitive conflicts and suffering? Solely to preserve the "natural" order, *snort* as if either the natural or artificial was inherently superior.

    But I will not, I will take the long and narrow road. I will offer them what I feel they need and want I think they may want. I will give it in fair and equitable exchange for what I need or want. I will ask only my due, because to ask for more would be to place a burden of them that would prevent them from paying me in full latter. And I will make mistakes, I have made mistakes. A misjudgment of the character of warlord here, an ecologic mess to clean up there. And perhaps I am damned for those mistakes, or because I seek to profit from what I offer them. But if I am damned for that then so be it. You said to me that their are things worth dying for, but I believe their are some things worth damnation for.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:25 No.14978227
    Once the "bad guy" is dead, the son takes over the family business, with a minder appointed by the board of directors. Nothing really changes, besides the PCs getting terrible publicity, and if they try to kill the CEO again, they'll be gunning for a child.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:32 No.14978256

    this will give the PCs satisfaction from his death. Its too much of a rationalizing monologue. Especially given the party composition.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)05:34 No.14978268
    What a bunch of long-winded tripe. I would be rolling my eyes halfway through it.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)06:06 No.14978397
    My fellow citizens,

    Today, I must announce that a man that most all of you would know, <BBEG>, was killed at his private lakehouse earlier this week.

    BBEG was the owner of Maginoil Research and Development, the household name we see on every piece of hospital equipment, every car, every plane, train, streetsign and medkit. BBEG was a true entepreuner (sp) and philanthropist.

    His support of charities and medical research is well know. In the last year of his life he donated <LOADSAMUNNY> to charities alone and the Maginoil Corp, under a program initiated by him back in <a while ago> has all but cured <crippling disease>.

    BBEG was truly an example of humanity's greatness. His Corporation has actively worked for peace, prosperity and progress in all of its departments. Doing the best it could with what it had. And even though the Maginoil Corp, and BBEG, have had their rivals as a close personal friend of BBEG I can honestly say that there never was a time when he didn't act with the utmost integrity, dignity, honour and respect for his compatriots.

    BBEG will be sorely missed, but his legacy will be survived in the millions of lives he has saved through medical advances, defused wars and charitable support.

    On this day, truly, a tradgedy has befallen all mankind.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)06:31 No.14978500
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    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)06:37 No.14978519
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    For some reason, I read these in his voice.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)06:37 No.14978520
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    Or this man. It's got to be someone likeable.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)06:51 No.14978564
    concerning the uplifted henchmen:
    Make their industrialized society really inclusive and modern, homosexualism and the whole LGTB-spectrum should be widely accepted or even preferred. Hell, make their army spartan-like, male only and comprised of battleteams of two lovers. Then, put some indigenous tribes in the jungle. Let them be the noble savages, living the life before the BBEG uplifted the species, who gratefully accept PCs help to run the 'resistance' (because that's what your PCs are anyway gonna do, fucking hippies).

    They are also a bunch of paleoconservative dickheads.

    Make them repeatedly rant how those fucking homo faggots in the cities are gonna git what's due to them. Your players never see their females - that's because all the females are locked in the breeding pits. And when your PCs inevitably try to free the females let them succeed - only to find out that they really don't have any life-experience or skills in order to survive outside the pits.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)07:03 No.14978618
    Donald Draper couldn't have done it any better.
    >> Braith117 05/19/11(Thu)07:03 No.14978620
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    My dear fa/tg/uys, I am proud. Here we have a thread about how to troll a bunch of Mary Sue players, and you unite behind the cause.

    Seems when you find something you really hate, you can come up with some great ideas.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)07:52 No.14978810

    Got your reference.

    I liked the Punisher idea mentioned earlier, but it may be cooler to have the corporate BBGG on his own and *then* have some vigilante turn up to halt the plans of the party.

    He's seen what the party is doing fighting the plans of the BBGG. He's seen something of their methods, and his. He's made his judgement as a human being, and has decided that the party Must. Be. Stopped.

    Make the vgilante anthro, female, an utterly normal guy with sudden access to heaps of cash that he doesn't necessarily deserve. Anything that helps with your trollan.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)14:49 No.14981358
    I would just like to push this back up
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)16:29 No.14982457
    Police believe that a band of terrorists, NAMES HERE, were responsible for this crime. Should citizens see these men and women, they should not approach them and should report the sighting to the local authorities without delay...
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)17:11 No.14982888
    Break them with a thousand sorrows of the flaws of their faggoty beliefs. Goddamn, I think I'd rather die than play with a group of fucking hippies, commies, furries and feminists like that. Hats off to you OP, you're braver than me- CRUSH THEM!
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)17:53 No.14983357
    Bumpan for great justice.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)18:52 No.14983854
    I would like to point out the Options stated at the start of the thread. the Pc's have 1 of 2 options that are ok out of 4 total options.
    one of the mass effect side missions really comes to mind when we talk about this, in summation a group of aliens that hate humans (the batarians) have armed two missiles. one is targeted at a residential district, the other at the spaceport/supply depot. you only have the code to stop one of the missiles, the one aimed at a residential district will kill many people on the colony, but will leave the space port and supply depot alone so that the coloney can be rebuilt.

    alternatively you can blow up the space port and supply depot, the people will be saved but left without supplies to rebuild or food to last the 100,000 people on board the colony.

    you have 90 seconds to decide which set of buildings is destroyed.

    give them options like that, make them live with the guilt that they couldn't save everyone. play up the no win scenario. make them hate themselves.

    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)18:57 No.14983896
    War is good for medicine too?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)18:59 No.14983919
    another good example is that of child sweatshops in places like china.

    A while back there was out cry that one of the head dress manufactures was using child labor in China to produce a high quality dress.

    public outcry was enormous, and when no one started to buy the dresses, the manufacture shut down the plant in response.

    over 70% of the females working in the sweatshop that were providing for their families became prostitutes.

    now ask yourself which is worse, a child working in a sweatshop or a child working the street.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)19:02 No.14983957
    You seem mad.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)19:06 No.14983991
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    Wow, I guess you could say that the problem is systemic. Almost as if the system of exploitation inherent in capitalism are impossible to solve without the old monster dying first.

    Good luck trolling your players, OP. Make'em feel something.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)19:07 No.14984008
    Here is another one.

    you have a leader, you put him into power and he becomes a large figurehead for the people.
    He now does not like the people that put him in charge and refuses to give them resources.

    you can either kill and replace him with someone who will kill many people to keep them in line but will give you all the resources of his land.
    you can keep the current leader in power, not get the supplies you need, and watch his people suffer with a smile on their faces because their government doesn't have the money to supply the people with what they need.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)19:36 No.14984268
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    Oh hi.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)19:37 No.14984274
    here is a good old standby.
    is slavery good?
    you have a nation, where certain peoples are allowed to own slaves (feel free to put as many limitations for what can be done with slaves as you want)
    you have a somewhat charismatic leader that wants no more slaves in his country/planet/whatever.
    The law making party can't decide how they want to deal with the slave issue though.

    some of them want to just get rid of all the slaves either sending them back where they came from or exterminating them.

    another group says they should be allowed to just go free and integrate

    and the third group says that the current status is fine, except that you still have slaves.

    extermination means the genocide of 500,000+ people, but would allow any peoples from the same race or bloodline to enter the society as a free person. which in turn may result in people being second class citizens.

    integration means that slaves are suddenly free to integrate, causing the owners to lose the money they spent on the slaves, as well as probably causing the second class issue above.

    the third option is to keep slavery in place.

    you are the tie breaking vote....which is your choice?
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)19:49 No.14984409
    Ok. So the party is going to take out the head of an intersteller megacorp. That's going to take some backing. You can't just waltz into the Lake House and take this guy out. They may have the drive, but a job like this requires a lot of planning and logistial support. They'll need intel, reconasance, equipment, they'll need counter-intelegece to carve a hole in this guy's secrty so they can take their shot...

    ...all of which is most likely to come from one of his coperate rivals. It could be another corp looking to take out a rival, or it could be someone inside his compay looking to get an unexpeted promotion.

    Either way, the party ends up just being a tool for some party that is just as bad if not worse than the person they thought they were taking out.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)19:58 No.14984517
    I think this thread is auto-saging but at least I got to read your post.

    the problem with being a tool is that unless you make the Pc's SEE what the rival is doing to people then they will feel justified when killing the BBNG.

    Much like Benny from F:NV you would need to make the guy you were working with an even more backstabber-y douche then the BBNG that doesn't care about them.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)20:21 No.14984787
    Put a bit of an epilogue t things if the succeed (and you don't run another campaign afterwards, in that case this becomes known then instead). The death of the BBEG triggers a successful hostile takeover of his crop from the one who hired the PC's.

    This results in absolutely nothing changing down on the floor, everything about the first megacorp that the PC's objected to remains exactly the same.

    So now there's an oprhan, some fatherless kids, and beyond that the PCs have achieved absolutely nothing.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)20:21 No.14984793
    rolled 1, 6 = 7

    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)20:38 No.14984943
    Alternatively, a bunch of male, capitalist, human heroes come in a save the day. Maybe they've been tracking the PCs the whole time, cleaning up/fixing their messes along the way. Finally they confront, defeat, and arrest the *real* BBEG, lawful good style.

    Then they come to the PCs and tell them that they're real sorry, they know that you meant well, but they'll have to bring you in for murder.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)20:43 No.14985003

    The problem is indeed systemic: human nature. As the old joke goes, "Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism, it's the other way around."
    >> BERNIE 05/19/11(Thu)20:46 No.14985028
    The real BBEG is Player 5 right?

    OP, if you don't collude with Player 5 something serious, I'll be very disappointed.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)20:51 No.14985078
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    The rival megacorp providing the logistical support makes sense. But have them working through intermediaries. Like say funding honestly well meaning dissident or not so well meaning anarchist/resistance idiots that constantly spout off about the revolution, and how "corporations are destroying the galaxy, man". Then reveal at the end a new corporation is coming to town and has just deposited a very large payoff in their personal accounts.

    BBEG2 Electric Boogaloo: This is just a token of my personal appreciation and may I say, that we couldn't have done it without you. However as a friendly warning I not suggest you attempt to interfere with our interests in the way you did with ConglomHugeCo. We are not as..How should I put this? As morally restrained as those you might have faced int he past.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)20:54 No.14985107

    OP, you need the Rape Factory!
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)21:02 No.14985178
    Op here. This thread is still alive, I am proud.
    >> OP 05/19/11(Thu)21:20 No.14985331
    Alright, so I read through all the stuff since I left. Lotta amazing ideas for the last third of the adventure.

    What I've got for the first 2/3.
    1. PCs actively investigating BBEG, coming to (incorrect) conclusions like they obviously will.

    2. PCs fight against the BBEG, and eventually kill him in front of his family.

    3. BBEG turns out to have been holding back many, many other, smaller BBEGs. His son takes over his Ultimate Megacorp, and uses it to hunt down the PCs, while at the same time it becomes MEGACORPS, MEGACORPS FUCKING EVERYWHERE. And then the war starts to go south, with exponentially increasing bloodshed. Because they killed some dude in a house by a lake.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)21:38 No.14985502
    Fuck yeah /tg/.

    Now, I'll just wait for the inevitable PC BUTTHURT thread.

    It will be GLORIOUS.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)22:20 No.14985857
    Slip in little hints along the way that the BBEG is not a real bad guy.

    He hires anthro minions because they can do the job for the cheapest salary. Discrimination is bad for business.

    That blonde bimbo secretary? She sits in a wheelchair behind the reception desk.

    And after the PCs kill him? Have his young blind son walk in. Little Timmy would like to know what those popping sounds were.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)23:29 No.14986559
    Ok, here's what you do (in several posts):

    Your BBEG is human, male. He's a wealthy buisnessman, his company dips into a little bit of everything. You've got media (Ted Turner), weapons development (Tony Stark), pharmaceuticals (Big Pharma), and healthcare.

    He sells weapons to both sides, always one weapon to one, and the countermeasure to the other. This makes it look like he's a warmongering capitalist. Your players are obviously lib-tards, so this will piss them all off, the commie doubly so. Make it come out later, once they're 100% committed to whatever plan they're doing to bring the BBEG down, that he's doing this to prevent the war from going "hot". By making sure both sides are balanced in terms of weapons technology, neither side has the advantage they need to launch a true offensive.

    Continued in next post
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)23:35 No.14986629

    Have the medkits your players use come from his company.

    Now, have it leaked that some "freedom fighters" are making an attack against "fascist humans". They need help in escorting a team into a human city. Make it a cakewalk for the players, with the security being from the BBEG.

    Now, have the players learn that the BBEG is forcibly removing a bunch of Amer-Indian style aliens who live in harmony with nature. This is so the BBEG can harvest a certain plant for pharmaceutical purposes. Have them get close to succeeding, but let one of the last BBEG guys, a scientist, say that the plant is only found here and that it's needed to stop a plague that is ravaging the human population city...but have him say it with his dying breath...or let them find it in documents.

    If they still stop the BBEG...Have this plague jump from humans to other species. Have security footage show the players delivering the bioengineered plague that is now responsible for killing tens of thousands and infecting millions more of innocent beings of all species.

    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)23:39 No.14986689

    The media has pegged them all as terrorists. The governments of both nations want them dead.

    Now, in addition to all this, this is what your BBEG needs to be:

    Cold, calculating, ruthless, and absolutely charismatic. His wife is well-educated, well-to-do, independent.....and enjoys being a housewife and mother. She's also a fan of furs...she wears mink stolls, fur coats, the whole nine yards. This'll piss off the furfag and the feminist.

    Whenever the players confront the BBEG....have him always remain calm. He never raises his voice, threatens them with violence, is always actually rather friendly with them. In a very paternalistic way in fact. A kind of "And who are you again?" fashion. Have him and the media make references to past GOOD deeds the players have done....but give the credit to someone else (bonus points for humans getting the credit). When the players inevitably act hostile and threaten the BBEG....have him calmly tell them that if they pursue this course of action, he will have no choice but to bring down the full force of the law on them. Have him tell them that he'll ruin them financially as well as their reputations.
    >> Anonymous 05/19/11(Thu)23:43 No.14986731

    In summary:

    You've made your BBEG a law-abiding businessman who has made a fortune by selling to both sides, but in doing so, maintained a very balanced cold-war.

    You've forced your players to make choices that will have reprecussions that will come back to bite them in the ass if they do what their descriptions say they probably will. That overarching storyline of them being responsible for a plague killing millions and thus becoming wanted criminals and terrorists will really piss them off.

    You've played to the hatred of each stereotyped douchebag player.

    Your BBEG is one suave soneofabitch.

    Your players' achievements have been minimalized and even been credited to others, and they are to be looked upon as common criminals/ruffians.

    Game Over, You Win
    >> Anonymous 05/20/11(Fri)00:57 No.14987480
    The only thing I can add to this, is you must ensure that the world is worse for his absence.

    Have him as the balancing factor in a complicated web of powerstructure.
    Not the Biggest thing, not the nastiest thing, but the thing that holds it all in place.

    Everything he does is to maintain this status quo, because as horrid as it is and as awful as the things he puts into action may be, the result of his absence will be the whole damn thing crashing down around everyone.

    Make sure the events that follow the defeat or death of this guy clearly mark him as the first domino to fall in a line of catastrophic events that swiftly bring horror and suffering to all the players claim to care about.

    While it has been said, any death at the hands of the players will be a victory in their eyes, it doesn't have to be the case.
    What stings more is to have victory snatched away.
    To have it turn to ash in their hands.
    Let them be celebrating at the bar when the first bombs drop, as it were.

    If you can find a way to have the guy attempt either recruitment, a pact of non interferance or manipulating the pcs into cooperation at least once or twice in the campaign, then when they claim the game was stacked agains them and "unwinnable" you will be able to remind them of the times they held their own morality as more important than the future of countless species.

    In short, make them the catspaws of the apocalypse.

    Good luck.

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