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  • File : 1303146977.jpg-(10 KB, 153x323, Maugan_Ra_by_John_Gravato..jpg)
    10 KB Maugan Ra Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:16 No.14634988  
    ''Maugan-Ra stands alone against a Tyranid swarm from Hive Fleet Leviathan and single-handily triumphs''

    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:16 No.14634995
    Because he's Maugan fucking Ra, that's how.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:17 No.14634999
    40k fluff reads Grimdark Superhero fanfiction.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:17 No.14635004

    That's about as fucking final as it gets OP.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:18 No.14635013
    His weapon shoots avatars.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:20 No.14635028
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    maugan ra has the king of all shuriken cannons.

    pic related, it's an extensive orkoid analysis of the battlefield effectiveness of eldar shuriken-based weaponry.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:20 No.14635030
    Dude's a Phoenix Lord and the living incarnation of Death itself. I can handle him doing improbable shit a lot more easily than I can some buttfuck Chapter Master or 'this new character never before seen but Mat Ward wrote him and he's cool bro' from the Imperial Asskickers doing so.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:22 No.14635046
    Every fucking time I read this I break down laughing. Every time. The furthest I've made it without laughing is the armour bit.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:36 No.14635163
    Tens of thousands of years of experience.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:37 No.14635167
    A single nid creature annihilated an entire craftworld.

    I guess that makes it even.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)13:47 No.14635245
    So an avatar of eldar's god of war gets demolished by a handful of carnifexes while this guy who worships the said god and represents just one aspect of the god managed to whoop an entire swarm of them.

    Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)14:08 No.14635407
    The Avatar has also been punched to death by Calgar too.....
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)14:46 No.14635770
    >>Guys, we have this character, how do we make him a badass?
    >Have him kill an Avatar!

    >>Guys, there's this big demon thing, how do we make it look cool?
    >Have it kill a bunch of Avatars!

    Fucking GW.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)14:48 No.14635788
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    >>make sense
    >>40k fluff
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)14:49 No.14635804
    You have seen a hack and slash game right? Mix that with shadow of the coleuses and you have your answer.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)14:56 No.14635882
    Just to get the facts right,how large is a "swarm" supposed to be?

    I could imagine that this guy could wreck major shit from afar, much like a devastator could in fluffy terms mow down rows of 'nids with a heavy bolter.

    Given that Maugan-Ra ist practically a demigod and armed with something akin to a mixture of a rapid-fire plasma-gun and a sniper rifle,he might in turn mow down just slightly more Nids.

    Also, I wonder why Avatars never get to kill anything to show how badass their craftsworld is.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)14:56 No.14635885

    My guess is Cruddace has a hard-on for the Eldar. Though instead of trying to write about it and embarrassing himself like Ward we just get "Maugan-Ra did something badass".

    Therefore the answer is who the fuck knows, I just know that it would involve a lot of shurikens and moving quickly and gracefully. Probably some Monsterous Creature decapitation as well.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)14:58 No.14635901
    He probably ran up the spire feeding the main hive ship and soloed it from the inside out.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:00 No.14635923
    Kaptin Badrukk defeated an entire tendril of Hive Fleet Kraken by assassinating the Norn Queen.

    Let me repeat that; the flashiest Flash Git in the galaxy infiltrated part of a Hive Fleet and assassinated their friggin' Norn Queen.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:02 No.14635936
    Remember the Maugatar also has a big fuck-off power blade on it that makes him hit as hard as an Avatar. Maybe that's why it's called the Maugatar.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:03 No.14635947
    And still bitches are whining over that Eldar get pwnd in the fluff? Fuck you, seriously fuck you
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:04 No.14635955
    Craftworld eldar are like a combination of badass anime hero and pulp fiction hero.

    Maugan Ra is like a combination of fucking Kamina and Simon, Solid Snake, Optimus Prime, Batman, captain America, and half the characters from Sin City.

    He fucking went into the eye of terror to rescue his old craftworld, he took down a fragment of a hive fleet all by himself, and he did it all with a badass gun with a scythe blade attached to it.

    Maugan Ra is Roboute Guilliman's spiritual liege!
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:06 No.14635969
    Now I'm imagining a Bayonetta/Shadow of the Colossus style game where Maugan Ra and Kaptin Badrukk get lost in the warp, meet up, and have to stop a secret Hive Fleet together while pissing each other off (and ultimately becoming bros).
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:06 No.14635974
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    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:08 No.14635991
    Badrukk keeps trying to steal the Maugatar. It's a ded flash choppa that shoots choppy dakka.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:10 No.14636005
    >>14635923Kaptin Badrukk defeated an entire tendril of Hive Fleet Kraken by assassinating the Norn Queen.

    so the ork uses stealthy assassination to swiftly decapitate the tyranid leadership

    ...while the Eldar guy basically goes in head firsts and guns down everything.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:11 No.14636012

    Maugan-Ra's so-called "single handedly defeating a swarm" is him actually being part of a task force of dark reapers and dire avengers. He did slay a Trygon with the Maugetar, but he did not solo an entire swarm.

    Space marines are still and by far much worse Gary-Stu maggots.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:11 No.14636013
    The WAAGH interupts the shadow in the warp making it slightly easiër if alot of orks were around.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:11 No.14636018
    Now combine them. It is the ultimate team up.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:11 No.14636021
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    IG still got the best heroes.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:12 No.14636024
    Mind = blown
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:12 No.14636029
    Because SUPREME GRAND MASTER LORD KALGOR DRAIGO suddenly appeared and saved the day.

    Just kidding, it's because the writers suck and think immortal Mary Sues who always win make more interesting characters that people who can actually be challenged.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:12 No.14636031
    >>14636012Maugan-Ra's so-called "single handedly defeating a swarm" is him actually being part of a task force of dark reapers and dire avengers. He did slay a Trygon with the Maugetar, but he did not solo an entire swarm.

    you're mixing up two separate events

    DEFENSE OF IYANDEN: Maugan Ra shows up with a 100 rocket launching reapers, bisects a trygon.

    His "one token speedrun" of leviathan swarm occurs after this.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:12 No.14636034
    >Maugan Ra is Roboute Guilliman's spiritual liege!
    I love you Anon!
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:13 No.14636049
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    >>something ridiculous and over the top in SM fluff makes them faggots

    >>something ridiculous and over the top in eldar fluff is rationalized and they are not faggots

    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:15 No.14636060
    Badrukk's assassinating the Norn Queen was PROBABLY a bit closer to "Crashed his ship into the Tyranid fleet, hopped out, and unleashed a Titan's-payload-worth of dakka into the bitch," and he had his Dakkalads there to provide covering fire, but yeah.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:15 No.14636065
    Neither of them played by the Roolz.
    MAUGAN RA is an Eldar. KAPTIN BADRUKK is an Ork.
    They couldn't have liked each other less.
    They couldn't have needed each other more.
    And the last place they expected to be...
    ...is on the same side.

    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:17 No.14636073
    >space marines do this all the time as scouts
    >people get tired of turbo shenanigans

    >lord of war and hero of the eldar race does amazing shit because all they do is lose and sacrifice guardians
    >people love it cause it breaks up the futulity

    It's why people love heroes and respect individuals, it's because they do something nobody else can or does.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:17 No.14636080
    Maugan-Ra is an immortal suit of armor that posses the wearer and an avatar of death. Space marines are roid heads with metal bones.
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:18 No.14636085

    Point out a scout marine in lore that wipes out something like a hive fleet and isn't Telion or Cyrus.

    I like Maugen Ra, but most of you on /tg/ are mad nerds with blinders on.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:18 No.14636086
    Maugan Ra is literally older than the concept of Space Marine Chapters. I am okay with him getting a moment to shine. Space Marines do something like this every fucking book.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:19 No.14636090
    A space marine scout banged your mom last night and she took it in the pooper like a champ.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:19 No.14636092
    >isn't Telion or Cyrus
    I think you're the one with blinders on.
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:20 No.14636104

    I dig Maugen Ra, and don't mind that he went slice-and-dice on leviathan.


    Cyrus and Telion are exceptions because they're the only ones who could pull this shit as scouts. This is if we take the DOW2 games as canon, in which case Cyrus does take down some nasty things vs. Telion just being old.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:21 No.14636107

    Yeah we're mad that Space Marines get to shine all the fucking time where as the alien races that make this setting worth anything are supposed to just die.

    I play Salamanders, and it's already boring as it is with constant marine fanfare.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:21 No.14636109

    And they fight crime.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:22 No.14636119
    >His "one token speedrun" of leviathan swarm occurs after this.

    AHAHAHAHA. Oh god, that image and concept is brilliant.
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:22 No.14636121

    It is, a little. But then again you have old books vs. new books. Chances are we'll have ridiculous over-the-top shit in the Eldar book, too.

    I mean, Maugan Ra's craftworld is apparently floating around near terra and no one gives a fuck on both ends.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:23 No.14636127
    Tyranid crime.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:25 No.14636141
    Were you in that video stream when someone said that would make a good gif?
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:25 No.14636145

    Ra is Jackie Chan.

    Badrukk is Russel Brandt. Or whatever that guy's name is.

    It'd be like Rush Hour, but in SPAAAAACE
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:25 No.14636149


    But it does make an amazing gif.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:26 No.14636162

    Damnit Maugan Ra, Badrukk, you're a couple of loose cannons. I want you to hand in your badges.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:27 No.14636172
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    >>14636080Maugan-Ra is an immortal suit of armor that posses the wearer and an avatar of death



    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:28 No.14636174
    (Maugan Ra can't talk so Badrukk gets all the one-liners.)

    ((Wait, who's their police commissioner?))
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:28 No.14636176
    You do realize the xenos books for 5e have been pretty lopsided and a bit underpowered, right? Nids got their FAQ that dumbed them down to stupid levels of retardation, and DE are brittle, fragile, and more than a bit overpriced.

    Odds are VERY good that with the current developers, any future 5e 'Non-Mehreen' armies are going to be full of suck. Eldar psychic defense will probably be nerfed into the 'not-usable' zone, while Orks will probably loose their deathrollas and PKs because that's too much 'anti-tank' for what they'd prefer to see.
    >> Deathleaper's Fangirl !!YD/t8+iuFvd 04/18/11(Mon)15:28 No.14636179
    >I want you to hand in your badges.

    Just don't ask for their guns. I don't think anyone would survive that.
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:28 No.14636181

    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:29 No.14636189
    The bit in the DE book with the Salamanders is pretty awesome though
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:30 No.14636201
    Source? it says "stand alone" not "Part of an army"
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:30 No.14636202
    Eldrad. He's a dick.
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:31 No.14636209

    I don't mean crunch-wise, I mean fluff wise.

    Look at the Doom of Malantai, or some of the stuff in the DE codex.

    'They can clone you back from a tiny bit of tissue!!1 SCIIENCEE!!' etc. etc.

    In regards to crunch, both were a little shafted. I hope they don't shaft the other xenos in crunch, but it may just happen.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:32 No.14636219
    Oh god, each would be good in their own way.

    >"And your guns."
    >Desk collapses under the weight of the Maugatar
    >Badrukk spends four hours dropping all the flash gunz he carries on the floor
    >> Deathleaper's Fangirl !!YD/t8+iuFvd 04/18/11(Mon)15:33 No.14636228
    >both were a little shafted.

    Tyranids, perhaps. Dark Eldar? No. The Dark Eldar codex is an example of what Codexes should be - very well balanced internally and externally. The Dark Eldar codex isn't too weak, other Codexes are too easily abused.
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:33 No.14636237

    He mixed up two different times where Ra decided he needed to slap some nids.


    'That was clearly against the codex, Ra.'


    'Dis 'ere gloomy lookin' git neva says nuffin, ya know? Whys I gotsa work wit 'im again?'
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:34 No.14636242
    what do Maugan Ra and Badruk ride around in?
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:35 No.14636253
    Well Maugan Ra uses the webway.
    And Badrukk has his own fleet of Kill Kroozas.
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:36 No.14636260

    A bigass orky bike with a little sidecar. Badrukk drives, Ra sits in the sidecar.


    They seem shafted to me, but this is just me talking from play experience. I've never bothered to extensively look over each one up to now and I doubt i will.

    Not going to lie, a lot of the guys where I play sort of let themselves either get gunned to fucking death because they sit in rapid fire range, or just get slapped in melee because they didn't notice something coming.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:37 No.14636271
    Badrukk wears flamboyant clashing colors

    Maugan Ra dresses in black and bleached bone
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:37 No.14636276

    Yeah it is, but I get the feeling it's there once more to serve as "Lol marines are better xenos are dumb."

    Don't get me wrong, there isn't too much stuff about the awesome Salamanders but I wouldn't have been that worried if the crew of a single battle-barge got completely fucked up in the middle of Commoragh.'

    Would have made for better reading material in the future too, having Salamander chaplains pass down the tale of woe when cruel Xenos slew so many brothers.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:37 No.14636277
    Ravenwing Master Sammael's jetbike
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:39 No.14636291
    Yes. This. He still doesn't know it's missing.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:40 No.14636299
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:40 No.14636308
    I don't have the Eldar Codex, so I'm curious; what other bat-shit nuts stuff has Maugan-Ra done?

    Badrukk has also: out-shot a Tau hunter-cadre, single-handedly slain a void whale, is an "excellent strategist, for an Ork," was kicked out of the Bad Moons clan for being too rich (for those who don't know about the Bad Moons, this is the equivalent of being kicked out of the Mechanicus for having too many mechanical body parts), and looted gold from the Palace of Undying Light (whatever the hell that is) for his bling and grill.
    >> Deathleaper's Fangirl !!YD/t8+iuFvd 04/18/11(Mon)15:41 No.14636312
    >a lot of the guys where I play sort of let themselves either get gunned to fucking death because they sit in rapid fire range, or just get slapped in melee because they didn't notice something coming.

    Which points to player error alone. Nothing there suggests a problem with the codex.

    >I wouldn't have been that worried if the crew of a single battle-barge got completely fucked up in the middle of Commoragh.'

    Which is pretty much exactly what happened. The Salamanders who dropped into Commoragh made good inroads into the Dark City when all they were facing were the scattered, disorganised Reaver and Hellion gangs. As soon as the Kabals and Wych Cults organised and launched a counter-attack, the Salamanders very quickly started to take heavy casualties and lose ground until they were forced to disengage.
    >> Omegon 04/18/11(Mon)15:41 No.14636314
    >Badrukk spends four hours dropping all the flash gunz he carries on the floor
    >he carries
    Hey, what do you think he needs all those ammo runts for?
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:42 No.14636321
    >Wait, who's their police commissioner?
    Obviously Tzeentch.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:42 No.14636323
    Well, I found that the "it was all to Vect's plan" mitigates the "EAT BATTLEBARGE, XENOS" a little

    I was hoping to have a tidbit on Xavier's death, but you can't win 'em all. The DE fluff was significantly better than the other recent books, in my opinion
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:42 No.14636332
    Hey, did anybody notice that it did not say "Maugan Ra LOLKILLED a hivefleet" but defeated a "swarm" singlehandedly?

    What is a swarm? A swarm could probably be something like a couple of hundred gaunts, a handfull of bigbugs.

    In that situation, I can totally see Maugan Ra getting a Farseers advice, taking position somewhere high and easily defendeable, then mowing down wave after wave of gaunts, until they can climb over their dead to his position. At that point none of them are left and Ra simply solos two or three bigbugs.

    For a guy who is older than the Imperium of Man most likely?

    For a guy who is older than the concept of "space marine" and an immortal incarnation of war?
    There's also the fact that SpaceMarines do ridiculous shit all the time. Literally, scouts, tacticals, everyone is a big dammn hero (--> wich makes it boring)

    For eldar it's civilian Guardians being sacrificed, futile fights and losses on all ends, with ONE or TWO shining examples of big damn heroes.

    THATs the reason why this alleged "gary stu" of Ra is much more bearable than "CALGOR DRAIGO LOLOLOLOLOLOL"
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:44 No.14636336
    No no no no. Clerks 40k.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:44 No.14636337
    >Implying he would need to get a Farseer's advice
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:44 No.14636341

    He popped out of the warp, fucked up a ton of shit during the 13th black crusade, and has been chilling and ruining everyone's shit for a while now.

    Also, he slices tyranids in two with his scythegun.


    Coming in Codex: Salamanders!
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:45 No.14636346
    I really think the Phoenix lords in general need more stuff written about them. Ra seems to be the only to even get mentioned recently, and even then its fleeting references, the others are pretty much just sat in the background. Hell, we don't even know who the Phoenix lords for two major shrines are.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:45 No.14636347
    Well the Craftworld he was originally from was pulled into the Eye of Terror 500 years ago. Recently he went back, evicted the daemons and pulled it back out.
    >> Deathleaper's Fangirl !!YD/t8+iuFvd 04/18/11(Mon)15:45 No.14636352
    >As soon as the Kabals

    Er, the Noble Houses, rather. The Kabals weren't really around back then in Commoragh's history.

    While that's possible, it's a notation on a map that shows the progression of Tyranid fleets into the galaxy. The arrow representing one tendril ends on the planet Ra fought them on, so that indicates whatever he did, it halted the progress of one part of the fleet.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:47 No.14636368
    >Coming in Codex: Salamanders!
    please no

    I'm a long-time Salamaders player, but we don't need a book. Hell, I still don't know how to feel about the Templar book
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:49 No.14636385
    What the hell IS the Palace of Undying Light, anyways? Always sounded like something either Chaos or Eldar, to me.
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:51 No.14636401
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    I'd be fine if they got a book, but it'd make a ton of people mad. Fine with the BT book, too.

    But thats just me. They could always throw out a tertiary 'dex loaded with special characters and rules for the named/important chapters, but that won't happen

    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:51 No.14636416
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    enjoy my shitty drawing aoff that idea.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:52 No.14636419
    rolled 95 = 95

    >((Wait, who's their police commissioner?))

    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:52 No.14636422

    Maugetar driveby.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:54 No.14636439
    I'd mainly be mad because I'd need to start a new salamanders army with the inevitable new kits that get released

    but also because them Xenos need love. Marines are best when they're fighting aliens
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:54 No.14636441
    >Why can Maugan Ra do this and Kaldor can't?


    Seriously, I would play CWE if Maugan and dark reapers were good.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:54 No.14636444
    Yet all the mehreen fags praise Mat Ward's rule-writing skills... If you view the D.E. in comparison to Mat Ward codices being 'balanced and awesome' (a fallacy), then they're expensive and sub-par. If you view them under the pretense that Mat Ward broke 40k 5e, and the SW and IG codices are just above and beyond that (more accurate), then yeah... Dark Eldar are well balanced and priced accordingly.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:56 No.14636457

    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:57 No.14636468
    They were... for 2 editions. They were godlike in 3e, and still brutal in 4e. They were a staple, due to being able to cut down mehreens in droves. They sucked against Orks, Nids, and Guard... but that's beside the point. They only *suck* now, because AP is of questionable worth now that the game is 'METAL BOXES' spam, and units without metal-boxes are hiding in 4+ woods.
    >> Deathleaper's Fangirl !!YD/t8+iuFvd 04/18/11(Mon)15:58 No.14636490
    >If you view them under the pretense that Mat Ward broke 40k 5e, and the SW and IG codices are just above and beyond that (more accurate)

    Not accurate at all. Mat Ward's codexes by and large are fairly well balanced. The two most easily abused lists around at the moment are Imperial Guard (Cruddance) and Space Wolves (Kelly). Ward writes godawful fluff, but by and large his rules aren't as broken as people seem to think they are.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)15:59 No.14636499
    I so have to do a diorama of those two now.

    Standing on top of a pile of dead mehreens.
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)15:59 No.14636502

    They'd have to throw dragon headed flamers and melta guns in every box, and thunderhammers left and right.

    God damn, I want more thunder hammers.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:00 No.14636509
    That's why you use firedragons.
    Fire Dragons are awesome with meltaguns and stuff.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:02 No.14636529
    I'm cringing at the thought of the inevitable dragon-helmet

    Doubly so for "The Salamandinator" and his "Salamandinade Guard"
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:03 No.14636538
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)16:03 No.14636540

    Dragons make everything better, dude.

    It'd be nice if we could get stats for the Fire Drakes, Tu'Shan, Velcona and whoever replaced Xavier.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:06 No.14636571
    Ward codices can only be remotely considered balanced, due to the fact that he has written half the fucking codices for 5th edition. They're not balanced. They're fucked up, and full of gimmicks. He started 'Gimmick-Hammer 40-lame', and it's still continuing because of him. The *only* thing he's done right, has been to price things reasonably, which is more Jervis' doing than Ward's.

    Ward's 5e Mehreen codex was not considered 'balanced' when it was released. It was OTT and ridiculous. Chaos players in particular went from disgruntled to 'rage-mode'.

    Phil's SW codex far exceeded that however, so now 'the bar' is set a bit higher, and Ward's gimmick-trash is mistakenly viewed as 'solid'. But it's not. Bringing back Sustained Assault did NOT need to happen, let alone on a dreadnought that can be transported by a fast-skimmer that gives it the ability to assault after moving. Sustained Assault bork 3e to the point that special 'Trial Assault Rules' were developed, and 4e implemented the 'Kill-Zones'. It's therefore not surprising that Swooping Hawks lost Sustained Assault, and 5e got rid of the Kill-Zones entirely.

    And that's only one fucking example of his bullshit. Bottom-line... Ward's shit is only 'balanced' if you're playing a true 5e codex (which has a 50% chance of being written by him).
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:09 No.14636606
    I use my old Xavier model as Cassius

    I claim his hammer can shoot fire once a game, because it's awesome like that. The increased toughness and feel no pain are a good representation of the cloak
    >> Emperor's Champion !!dTSxH/3+AFl 04/18/11(Mon)16:11 No.14636622




    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:11 No.14636627

    5th edition codices are not gimmicky, they are best we've had since 2e.

    3e and 4e was the worst, Gav Thorpe shitscribble monobuilds everywhere. Best thing that has happened to 40k in twelwe years was that Gav, Alessio and Jervis stopped writing codices.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:18 No.14636727
    Best thing that happened was indeed Gav leaving. He fucked shit up. But the worst thing to happen was the loss of Andy Chambers. He made shit interesting and fun, while keeping it balanced.

    5e is far from being the 'best thing to happen to GW games', unless all you like is Mehreen-spam and a never ending array of it. And if you think for an instant that it's not full of stupid 'gimmicks', I have three words for you:
    -Librarian Dreadnought
    -Thunderwolf Cavalry

    Not a single one of those was needed. And 2 of them are products of Ward.

    For bonus round... And by no means does a 'gimmick unit/rule' need to be good...
    -Lemun Russ Punisher
    -Jaws of the World Wolf
    -Glasscannon Thud Gun (Thunderfire)
    -GK Henchmen
    and on... and on...
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:19 No.14636742
    Correction... ok. Maybe no 3 words. But 3 units.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:23 No.14636778


    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:26 No.14636812
    >Librarian Dreadnought
    >Thunderwolf Cavalry

    What is the problem with adding more units and diversifying armies? People always bitch about how the Space Marine armies are to similar so whats the problem with a little diversification?
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:30 No.14636859
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    Godhammer here

    all other patterns are for babies.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:32 No.14636887
    And now I'll never be able to not think of Maugen Ra and Badrukk as Tiger and Bunny. Which I guess makes Bison Arjac Rockfist and the samurai ninja guy Creed.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:34 No.14636911
    Why are the lascannons firing like the stormbolter?
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:36 No.14636939

    Redeemer here. "COME AT THIS OBJECTIVE BRO".
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:37 No.14636942
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    Because it looks cool
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:38 No.14636953
    Because there shouldn't be more space marine codices than all the xenos ones put together?
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:42 No.14636999
    The problem is they're stupid gimmick units. Even with those 'diversifying units', mehreens are still fucking mehreens. Playing as any other non-mehreen army against any mehreens is the exact same fucking game with varying levels of gimmicks attached.
    "These ones reroll to hit in CC"
    "These ones have blendertron-dreads and 6" FnP bubbles, as well as flying lamb-raiders.
    "These ones have lots of Terminators and Bikes but are otherwise just like.."
    "These ones who have re-rolled Melta and Flamers, can elect to fall back on their own, or have Fleet"
    "These ones ride giant wolves, suffer no penalties when charged, and have super-HQs".
    "These ones have force weapons and are super-psychic with a baby-carrier walker."

    For all the 'unique differences' between them, they're still nothing more than 'spess mehreens', and my style of play does not vary between opponents. It's gotten so fucking boring that I stopped playing 40k altogether and picked up several new systems without such stupidly repetitive opposing armies to play.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:43 No.14637012
    - Codex: Space Marines
    - bring back Index Astartes to represent every loyalist founding legion + important later chapters. (as in don't fucking squat the Iron Hands assholes)
    - give Chaos a Legion codex, a Daemon codex, a Lost & The Damned -esque Heretics codex and maybe a Renegade Marines codex to even out that side
    - Codex: Random Xenos Filth for stuff like Hrud, Rak'Gol, Ioxatl (although they would be in a Chaos 'dex too), etc. for Xenos that aren't Orks, Eldar, 'Nids or part of the United Federation of Tau.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:46 No.14637046
    > I am chaos and obviously my favourite god is slaanesh because i like choking on a million dicks

    hurp durp, I guess I as a nid player should request that than:
    >all loyalist marines get one codex
    >all chaos forces get one codex
    >nid hive fleet gets a codex
    >genestealer cult gets a codex
    >zoats are reintroduced and get a codex
    >random nid-variations found on deathworlds get grouped together and get a codex
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:48 No.14637079

    Just bring back Index Astartes, Index Xenos, Chapter Approved.. shit like that

    Core races each get a single book, variant lists introduced through WD/the site
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:49 No.14637091
    I disagree. We don't need more than 1 codex for any given army... INCLUDING SPESS MEHREENS.

    However, since GW is adamant in spamming 'minor color-scheme variations' with "inventive new units", then they should at least do the same for everything else (once again). But as WD/PDF articles, so that they don't obstruct release schedules.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:50 No.14637100

    Which is exactly why GW would never do it...
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:51 No.14637104
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    someone make the macro
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:53 No.14637123

    >implying "and maybe a Renegade Marines codex" = Chaos should be the new Marines.

    CSM and Daemons shouldn't have been split apart anyway. Ideally, Chaos should have one codex for playing legions, daemons, and renegade marines, and one that's basically chaos guard for random heretics.

    Gavin Thorpe is the one who chokes on a million dicks. Also,

    >implying 'nid hive fleets are different from each other in all but name and color

    Genestealer Cults should come back though.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:56 No.14637162

    Well, yeah, but Gavin Throatjob said something about IA/Chapter Approved leading to hypothetical situations where someone could claim their Sergeant had an assault 6 template meltagun "because it's in WD 6497".

    The obvious solution is to slap him in the face with a dildo and point out that if you don't have the fucking WD issue or IA/Chapter Approved with you, you can't use it.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)16:59 No.14637190
    how codices should be:

    >Imperial codex (huge book including SM, IG and inquisition etc)
    >Chaos Codex (also huge includes daemons and all those lovely thing chaos used to have
    >smaller books for other factions ('nids, Tau, necrons etc)
    >more Imperial Armour type supplements
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:02 No.14637217
    But the Marine codexes are already here and GW isn't gonna squat anyone else any time soon.
    So while they're here to stay why not make them more than just another paint scheme?

    The problem is they're stupid gimmick units. Even with those 'diversifying units', mehreens are still fucking mehreens. Playing as any other non-mehreen army against any mehreens is the exact same fucking game with varying levels of gimmicks attached.
    "These ones reroll to hit in CC"
    "These ones have blendertron-dreads and 6" FnP bubbles, as well as flying lamb-raiders.
    "These ones have lots of Terminators and Bikes but are otherwise just like.."
    "These ones who have re-rolled Melta and Flamers, can elect to fall back on their own, or have Fleet"
    "These ones ride giant wolves, suffer no penalties when charged, and have super-HQs".
    "These ones have force weapons and are super-psychic with a baby-carrier walker."

    When you brake shit down like that in the end it's all just slight variations of a stat block.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:03 No.14637223

    >Imperial codex (huge book including SM, IG and inquisition etc)

    That would be entirely too big. Marines in one book, Guard (including all variant regiments) in another, Inquisition/Deathwatch/Grey Knights in a third. Ecclesiarchy/Sisters and AdMech for a fourth? Still better than 8 Marine codices (including CSM and GKs)
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:04 No.14637240
    AdMech don't mix well with the Ecclesiarchy fluff-wise.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:06 No.14637251
    Too big?

    How about you get a fuck mighty tome with all the fluff and stats and whatnot along with a handy reference book which basically just has raw stats and rules.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:06 No.14637253
    >Space Marine style fluff, but changed to Dark Eldar

    "and so Lelith Hesperax, who was getting sort of sweaty from dodging a bunch of lascannon blasts, ran up to the chapter master and they started fighting. Calgar swung his power fist but Lelith blocked the blow with her knife, and then she cut off his arms and legs. The sight of Calgar flopping like a fish scared the ultramarines and they ran away. Lelith was getting a leg cramp."

    Oh, Calgar's mostly a cyborg so he survived it, so it's OK, just like how the Avatar always comes back from defeat.

    Then a short blurb about "and so the Intruders Kabal struck the Space Sharks Chapter home planet and killed everybody, leaving the fortress monastery an empty tomb of carnage".

    and if we want to get Primarchy, how about
    "then with an expert cut Drahzar ripped out the landraider's throat, suffocating the battletank. You heard right, that landraider suffocated, because Drahzar is a goddamn Phoenix Lord, got it?"
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:08 No.14637271
    >Space Sharks

    too far dude, too far
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:09 No.14637274
    >>14636627 5th edition codices are not gimmicky

    >opens 5th ed Space Marine Codex
    >reads through 5th Ed Blood Angels
    >have a look through codex grey knights

    >Full of gimmicks, and gimmicks with extra gimmicks

    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:09 No.14637282
    >Implying black templars play anything like Space Marines

    They don't even get tactical assaults.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:11 No.14637301
    I respectfully disagree. Here's my personal preference:
    >Imperial Guard book, with variant regiment support
    >Space Marine book, with variant chapter support
    >Chaos Marines book, with variant legion support (and daemons)
    >Orks with their variant clans and list setups (i.e. Deathskullss, Kult of Speed, Dread-Bash, Goff, etc.)
    >Craftworld Eldar with their variant craftworlds represented.
    >Dark Eldar with full variant lists (not 'lol field Wych HQ get Wych army).
    >Tau + full variants including Kroot Merc, Demiurg, etc.
    >Nids with their different Hive Fleet styles, and add in Genestealer Cults.
    >Inquisition... All of it. Including Grey Mehreens.
    >Necrons with full variant lists for the different C'Tan and their styles of domination.

    With the variant lists calling upon similar units, it would not be difficult to have 1 combined army list (with a paragraph of fluff at most for each unit), and several pages dedicated to different variant armies and what they can field. Trim down the gimmick trash, and keep the flavor to available units, USRs, and variant faction bonuses/penalties.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:12 No.14637304

    I know, but I was thinking more along the lines of the AdMech and Ecclesiarchy both being the religious institutions of the Imperium. You wouldn't be mixing them, they'd just come in the same book.

    This would be in a situation where Space Marines were all in one big fat codex, all Guard variants (maybe including PDF and Arbites?) in another, and the Inquisition (including GKs, Deathwatch Marines, and maybe Arbites there too) in a third. Super-elite guys in one, DROWN THEM IN OUR CORPSES! in another, Super Detectives in a third, and incense-bearers in the last. (Ecclesiarchy gets fire and faith powers, AdMech gets huge fucking lasers and are dead 'ard)
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:13 No.14637318
    Okay I'm sorry guys but what's the difference between gimmicks and rules?

    I can get why people don't like that there's lots of Marine codex, but they've all been around for quite some time now, why are you still beating this dead horse?
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:13 No.14637319
    I agree with this, the most important part is keeping the variety (chaos legions, genestealer cults etc) inside one book.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:17 No.14637349
    That's because that's literally all they are... slight variations with some gimmicks added in.

    Build an IG, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Nid, Tau, or Ork force. And play with it over the course of a few years. None of the Mehreen codices will force you to radically alter your list. They all die the same. They all fight the same. And no matter which 'non-mehreen' army you play, CC will generally not be a preferred option for you until you've reduced their numbers to the point where you're comfortable engaging them (I'm looking at you, Nids and Orks). As an Ork player, I don't (nor can I) change anything to 'adapt' to a "diverse and unique" spess mehreen chapter. They're all the same. And CC is generally a place I still don't want to be unless the marines are shattered to the point where I don't need to worry about "Random Falling Over Dead" wounds (No Retreat!).
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:19 No.14637365

    >Nids with their different Hive Fleet styles, and add in Genestealer Cults.

    That would be kind of hard to do (aside from Genestealer Cults). I guess they'd get progressively more expensive points-wise and elite in chronological order, as they absorbed more biomass.

    Behemoth: megahorde army, fuckload of Gaunts. Warriors and Genestealers moved to elites, maybe. Special Characters from the Battle of Macragge.

    Kraken: shitloads of Genestealers, maybe using elements of a Genestealer Cult list. Special Characters related to Ichar IV and Iyanden.

    Leviathan: MADE OF RAPE
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:25 No.14637409
    Definition of Gimmick:
    –verb (used with object)
    to equip or embellish with unnecessary features, especially in order to increase salability, acceptance, etc. (often followed by up ): to gimmick up a sports car with chrome and racing stripes.

    Basically, that's what it comes down to. Embellishing these 'Unique and Diverse' chapters with completely unnecessary things, in order to increase the desire or it's acceptance.
    Examples include the Dreadknight, Librarian Dreadnoughts, and Thundewolves. None of which were necessary to the armies, nor needed. All of which were added purely for the defined reaasons of 'Gimmick'.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:26 No.14637419
    Now I can't say for certain as I never really have a chance to go up against marines, but I don't think playing against shooty marines would be the same as going against a BT army, or facing plaugemarines instead of BA assault army.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:32 No.14637466
    But without any of the gimmicks then they would just be slightly different space marines. I think it's good that GW are at least trying to create more diversity with the armies.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:33 No.14637476
    >Marneus Calgar defeats an Avatar with the help of an entire Ultramarine company and barely survives, his body broken and his army in tatters

    >Maugan-Ra stands alone against a Tyranid swarm from Hive Fleet Leviathan and single-handily triumphs
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:34 No.14637482
    Each hivefleet did have very unique methods of fighting for it's time. And the remnant splinters of those hivefleets would fight differently.

    As you stated, Behemoth would use a lot of cannon-fodder units. Genestealers not so much (would be available, just not prevalent).

    Kraken would probably use a lot more Genestealers, but would also have a focus towards what was seen in Iyanden. Mawlocs/Trygons... probably not as common as the 'living battering ram' Carnifex. Zoanthropes would probably be more common as well.

    Leviathan would probably make a lot more use of the 'new toy' units, like Trygon, Mawloc, Tyrannofex, etc.

    Rules would be balanced of course, with Carnifexes no longer being 'the suck' and at the very least given a substantial point-break.

    Toss in other 'minor hive fleets' focusing on different unit organizations (say a predominantly flyer-swarm), and throw in the Genestealer Cult (not hard at all, really).

    Please note I'm also talking about a paragraph or two at the most to describe each unit, which will substantially cut down on page-space. Keep fluff present, but nowhere the "3/4ths of the book" as we see now. With a well-built and expansive summary list, you could easily make the variant army lists a page or 2 in length. The restructuring is actually a lot easier than it sounds. I've seen examples from other companies, and they work great. We're talking 12 drastically different playable army lists, in a booklet half the size of the Ork codex.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:37 No.14637501
    They still are 'slightly different space marines' and everyone is sick of it. I don't give a fuck what color your power armor is, you're still a fucking marine, so stop prancing. Paint the entire army hot pink and call them the Gay Marines for all I care, just don't keep coming up with codexes full of gimmicks for them.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:40 No.14637526
    Played against a wide variety of 'minor variant' marine lists... And really only the 'Deathwing' or 'Bike lists' are drastically different. Shooty-marines isn't any different than nomral, and close combat marines are the same thing with just more TH/SS terminators or assault marines (3 attacks on charge).

    The differences are shockingly minor.

    Slightly different marine armies is all they were in the first place, and all they still are. The gimmicks add nothing but more complex rules, death-stars, and potentially game-breaking nonsense. They aren't needed, never were, and don't actually change much as it's now just a matter of what gimmick-units/rules the opposing cookie-cutter marine army has. It's so boring fighting the 'unique divergent' marine armies, that I quit playing 40k altogether and started playing games with a better spread of players. Marines are all the same to play against... unless you're marines yourself (in which case it's a battle of the 'Haves and Have-Nots'.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:43 No.14637551
    >They still are 'slightly different space marines'

    But they are improving.

    >everyone is sick of it.

    Clearly not, or else they wouldn't be selling.

    >just don't keep coming up with codexes full of gimmicks for them.

    It would be unfair to just squat the armies, so I still see the gimmicks as a good thing.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:51 No.14637635
    They are not improving.
    The people who are not sick of it, are soon becoming the only ones left playing 40k.
    And they're not actually selling as well as the other army releases like Orks, Dark Eldar, or the horrible Nid codex. The players who get the most excited for new marine releases, are the GW staff members and the pre-existing players. Few newcomers buy anything for the 'newest marine army', and most just buy the codex for 'counts-as'.

    When Orks were released, the store couldn't keep them on the shelves. When the dread and kanz were released, it was the same thing. Ditto to the Trygon model, gaunt-boxes, and Genestealers. I didn't actually get a chance to see any Dark Eldar boxes at my LGS, until they were fully restocked 3 times. They literally sold that well.

    Yet the new Grey Knights? Codexes are gone, but well over half the original number of Dreadknight kits are still there. Power Armor and Terminator armor GKs are still there in bulk, as well. Stock shipments were about the same between all the releases so far, ±.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)17:56 No.14637681
    And yet the Space Wolves and Blood Angels sold very well.

    I dunno Jimmy but maybe it has something to do with Grey Knights codex sucking all kinds of fluff dicks, but that's just me.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:01 No.14637714
    In the 'One codex to rule them all' setup I'm suggesting here: >>14637301
    They would not be squatted at all.

    However in the current setup, just remember this:
    Every Chaos Legion, Ork Clan variation, Craftworld, and IG regiment was effectively 'Squatted'. GW would like you to believe that they can all be 'represented' with their current codices. But really they're all just color-schemes now, and much of the flavor and style of any given army is lost and no longer represented. Gone are my Deathskulls with their army of looted vehicles and equipment. Gone are the elite Vostroyan style of well-trained carapace guardsmen (replaced with max 6 squads of suicide melta vets). Gone are the Alpha Legion, who are now best represented by Straken and the IG book.

    All Squatted. Every one of them, all for the 'One Book to Rule Them All'.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:07 No.14637758
    None of those things had their own codexes though, if you play a variant list in a book you surely must have expected it to die eventually.
    I know that as an IW player that I was one day gonna lose the ability to use my Basilisk.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:09 No.14637771


    Say what you want about Ward, THORPE killed the fun.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:10 No.14637786
    SW and BA were no different. Again, codices sold very well. The rest of the box sets? Meh... The Grey Hunters sold reasonably, as did the core Blood Angel kits. But nowhere close to what DE, Orks, Nids, and IG did. And when the Stormraven came out, every store in my area had surplus stock of them that got sent back after the first month.

    That all said... we have metric fuck-tonnes of marine players. So much now with 5th ed trends, that it's becoming rare to even see anything else at all. The last store Apoc game was 8 Marine players, several with Shadowswords painted in their armies color-scheme, squaring off against 2 (and only 2) Ork players. No one came to represent any other army.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:16 No.14637842
    They still had official 'Legal' lists, printed in WD and supplied freely in PDF form. You know, back in the glory days of when WD was actually worth reading.

    For that matter, Grey Knights and Black Templar never had their own codex prior to the ones they have now. Black Templar were another 'minor list' in the same book as the Ork Kult of Speed and Steel Legion. Of those, the Ork KOS is now a shoddy mess requiring you to dragoon transports or waste heavy slots for your elites, and the Steel Legion are just another faceless IG mech-spam with nothing to differentiate them.

    The only marine codices that existed previously, were DA, BA, and SW. And all they had was a 20-page± supplement-codex through 3rd and most of 4th (on par, or less, than what many other 'minor variant' armies had).
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:18 No.14637865
    Why are you screaming at me? I'm on your fucking side.

    I would love to see Warsmiths and Iron Warriors make a return. As well as Biel-Tan, Deathskulls, Vostroyan, and every other "minor variant" army that was effectively removed wholesale from the game.

    I'm an advocate for consolidating all the marine books, and giving the 'non-marine books' enough depth to represent their variant factions.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:36 No.14638011
    They all have their own codex now though, that's the important thing. It would be no more fair to remove the DA or BT than Tau or DE.

    Was it a mistake that they where given their own codex in the first place? I think so. But giving xenos and chaos or other Imperial factions the same treatment will only clog up the release schedule more.

    What's important now is how GW handles the armies, make them as unvanilla as possible - this is mostly accomplished through the use of gimmicks because the stats of the marines themselves are all very similar,
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:44 No.14638097

    >GK Henchmen

    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:47 No.14638131

    wat. Codex Daemonhunters featured more inquisitorial stuff but was still primarily Grey Knights.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:50 No.14638162

    Dude, the librarian dreadnought is nice. its just odd the Codex: Space Marines doesn't have it.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:51 No.14638164
    Simple, he shoots two and retreats into the webway.
    He killed infinitely more of them, than they did of him.
    I would call that a triumph.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:53 No.14638191
    It would be far more fair to remove Marine variants and simply have one larger codex with good customisation options. And do the same for the other armies. There doesn't need to be that much added between chapters, it's mostly doctrine differences anyway
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:54 No.14638204
    Except they aren't achieving that. The gimmicks are just that. Gimmicks. They don't add diversity to an already copy-paste army. They just add more complexity in the form of ridiculous units/rules that end up either overpriced and of questionable value, or game-breaking retarded, killing 30 plague-marines easily in one round of combat (yes I've seen a Blendertron-Dread get charged and do this, nothing left for a morale check). All it adds is unnecessary complexity, units that shouldn't exist, as well as distaste by other players. Overall strategy is now more about list-design and not actual gameplay (not that 40k was particularly noted for gameplay strategy), and the game as a whole has become excruciatingly boring for a large number of players. Many of which are now playing better systems, where 19 out of 20 games aren't fought against minor variations of the same army.

    Personally, I feel that GW should consolidate the Marine codices. They shouldn't get rid of them, but should make one book with a variety of actual list designs in it (no 'field X named-HQ and get Y army'). Then do the same when they revisit every army.

    What I would LOVE to see however, is for GW to abandon this fuck-tarded 'one codex every 6 month' release schedule, and take a good hard look at what other companies do for their releases. Or at the very least, WD/PDFs for all the other minor variant armies. That way my squatted Deathskulls, Iron Warriors, and Saim-Han actually FEEL like those armies once again.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:57 No.14638224
    Did you even read the Codex: Daemonhunters?

    It was a 50/50 split between Grey Knights, and Ordo Malleus.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)18:59 No.14638246
    Yeah... because CLEARLY the 'shoe-horned inquisition unit' isn't a gimmick. If I'm full retard, then you've got to be straight-jacketed in a padded room.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)19:03 No.14638280

    >no 'field X named-HQ and get Y army'

    I don't mind if special characters stay, I'd rather pay a certain number of points for a combat doctrine. Like, say, 40 points and your Sternguard are scoring units, instead of having to take Pedro.

    it would be very easy to modify vanilla marines into any chapter you wanted that way. "pay X points, you are now playing Blood Angels. assault squads are troops, roll the dice for the Red Thirst, and you can take Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, and Blood Angels characters.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)19:09 No.14638327
    >But nowhere close to what DE, Orks, Nids, and IG did.
    Which is more of a representation of how long DE, Orks, and IG have been waiting for new models. Nids less so.

    >And all they had was a 20-page± supplement-codex through 3rd and most of 4th
    Which they have since stated they will no longer do, because of the massive rules snarl that ensues when the parent codex is updated.

    In fact rules snarls and people whining about them was one of the reasons that they stopped all the variant material. They made a beer and pretzels game and everyone argued about the correct way to eat pretzels. Now you just have beer.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)20:00 No.14638804
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    Because He is the Harvester of Souls. Sole survivor of Craftworld Altansar. A warrior with over five centuries of conflict, fighting on a doomed craft world that was lost to the Eye of terror. The Phoenix lord of the Dark reapers, and the very personification of death. His weapon is a cannon normally reserved for vehicles with an attached ancient power weapon scythe blade. Not even the temple of the Dark reapers remains, only Maugan Ra.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)20:02 No.14638820
    More than five centuries. That's just the time he's been wandering. Maugan Ra is thousands and thousands of years old.

    (Also the temple does technically remain, given that he rescued the Craftworld it was on.)
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)20:04 No.14638836
    Except for Marines, who get all the pretzels, bear-nuts, and cashews while everyone else is busy sucking crumbs off the floor.

    Oh... and BTW...
    >Which is more of a representation of how long DE, Orks, and IG have been waiting for new models. Nids less so.
    >Orks... waiting for new models.

    LMFAO. You clearly aren't an Ork player, let alone familiar with the Ork vets at all. We weren't waiting for new models. We were happily converting, kitbashing, and scratch-building our own. If we wanted anything, it was more bitz and some more infantry models.

    That said... the new walkers do look great. And the Trukk is decent. Battlewagon's too narrow, and isn't to my tastes. And the Tankbustas, Kommandos, Lootas, and AoBR all look like shit.
    >> Infinity-tan 04/18/11(Mon)20:05 No.14638842
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    Infinity-tan here!

    O_O What is a codex?

    ...............nah Im just kidding, I've basicly given up on 40k due to all the Spess Marine EQ-armies shitflying around.

    I wonder how much fucked up the Necron codex will be, cause it can't be better then the Spess Marines ones.. right?
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)20:10 No.14638883
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    I know.. it just sounds more bad ass when you pick up the story from the beginning. then go into him Invading the eye of terror to rescue a craftworld thought to be centuries dead and gone.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)20:22 No.14638974
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    Well, the Pheonix Lords have existed (atleast?) since the fall of the Eldar, aka slannesh raping real-time space and blablalb Eye of Terror... and that happend like 27-30 THOUSAND years ago according to GW.

    Altansar survived, but got caught in the gravity of the Eye... so.. yeah.

    pic unrelated.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)22:14 No.14640037
    Only the lascannons are godhammers, the build is called Land Raider Phobos.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)22:20 No.14640098
    Sisters in the Inquisition codex, obviously.
    >> That Guy !CrwtTbFNxQ 04/18/11(Mon)22:28 No.14640193
    >Kaldor Draigo is trapped in the warp and attempts to destroy the God's realms in a futile 'fuck you' gesture to Chaos

    >Maugan Ra obliterates an entire 'Nid swarm singlehandedly
    Eldar are so cool, it's pretty cool to see a hero amongst the grimderp of 40k.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)22:33 No.14640214
    Killing an enormous number of faceless gribblies by being horrendously badass is pretty much standard fare for 40k.

    The point is, if some characters have plot armour, armies like tyranids have plot-bullet-magnets. Strapped to mines. Strapped to their faces.

    The problem with killing Mortarion is that it's against all previous fluff, against all narrative logic, and downright retarded.

    Killing tons of tyranids is simply retarded. And 40k has always considered being awesome more important than being smart.
    >> That Guy !CrwtTbFNxQ 04/18/11(Mon)22:39 No.14640260
    Draigo never killed Mortarion, he just carved his mentor's name into the primarch's heart while he was pinned down. Even when he's in the warp, everything he kills or destroys simply comes back. He's a guy trying to drain the ocean with a bucket, and every time he throws out the water it falls into the sand and drains back to the sea.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)22:43 No.14640288
    He did, however, kill so many daemons that Khorne himself is too afraid to face Draigo in battle.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)22:50 No.14640352
    It happened like 15k years ago.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)23:27 No.14640653
    The problem I have with the Draigo and Mortarion thing is that if you're going to have a sentence in the fluff where Draigo essentially slaps his dick across some bad guy's face to further emphasize the fact that yes indeed, this guy is a super uber strong, don't make it a major existing character in the universe.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)23:30 No.14640679
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    >>>''Maugan-Ra stands alone against a Tyranid swarm from Hive Fleet Leviathan and single-handily triumphs''
    >>>and single-handily
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)23:34 No.14640714
    No one said anything about maugan Ras armour bolting him to the ground so he becomes unmovable thats how you survive a tide of tyranids.
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)23:51 No.14640851
    Wish I hopped on /tg/ earlier to see this thread, I had to scramble together my very first bit of drawfaggotry
    >> Anonymous 04/18/11(Mon)23:52 No.14640868
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    Wish I hopped on /tg/ earlier to see this thread, I had to scramble together my very first bit of drawfaggotry.
    >> Someone else. !!Qb2aRW+wCPO 04/19/11(Tue)00:12 No.14641033
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    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)02:40 No.14642206
    mugan looks kind of like EVA, not a bad thing
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)02:45 No.14642248
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    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)03:27 No.14642554
    >>14640679 Swarm

    like a ripper swarm?
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)06:34 No.14643324
    Oh god, that's awesome.
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)06:39 No.14643344
    Why, fucking WHY is there a Death Jester in the temple?
    Just because he has a skullmask and dresses in black, he's gotta be with the reapers, no?
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)06:41 No.14643365
    I wouldn't be surprised if Death Jesters had some sonnection to Maugan Ra. He's been one of the most active Phoenix Lords in Eldar history, and as a perennial wanderer he'd surely have travelled with the Harlequins many times in his existence (calling it 'life' seems inaccurate).
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)06:46 No.14643390
    yeah it is a bit silly, but atleast he is a fucking Pheonix Lord, who basically a representation of WAR, that has existed for 20k+ years.

    Compared to a new character that is apparently stronger then primarchs.......
    >> thor 04/19/11(Tue)07:24 No.14643597
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    Im just gonna leave this here!

    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)07:28 No.14643620

    i'll feed some related lexicanum material:

    - During the War in Heaven, Khaine fought and defeated the Nightbringer, shattering his necrodermis, although the resulting metal shards pierced his flesh, tainting his form with 'the aspect of the Reaper'.
    - Death Jesters (Margorach) - Notable specialists in heavy weaponry on the fields of war, Death Jesters take on the role of Death itself, or similar morbid parts, when in performance.

    so it's like guys with big guns who assimilate to Nightbringer in the battle, and the guys with big guns who impersonate it on the battle-field (too)
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)07:35 No.14643645
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    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)09:42 No.14644466
    Shameless bump.

    Also, if GW consolidated spess marines all anto one book with variant lists covered there where needed:
    Book would be bigger, they could charge more
    More players would need the one book, and thusly it would sell more - more shelf space
    The space marine rules would all be at par, with wargear being consistant, anything one chapter can get being available to all chapters that reasonably shuold have it (So everyone gets librarian dreads, or nobody. Honestly, I have no problem with librarian dreads, and think they and venerable dreads should be HQ choices like any other - but lack some of the advantages that being on foot would give).

    This could be taken for other armies.
    Codex: Chaos
    Lists being Chaos Space Marines, Cultists and traitors and Chaos deamons. Each list can take all teh deamons, etc - just in different slots/amounts.

    Orks get a list, and then clan variants. Maybe throw IA8s Dreadbash in there, but KoS and Dreadbash should be doable from any list and be more of a chosing to take the units that fit the theme thing.

    IG get a list. Bring back regiment rules, and bulk that book out.

    Inquisition/Eccliarchy gets a book. Has SoB, Grey Knights, Inquisitor lists, etc.

    Tau Empire get a book: Tau, Kroot mercs, demiurg, etc.
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)09:43 No.14644478
    >>14644466 cont.
    Nids get a book: Nids, Genestealer cults. Not sure what goes here, but IMHO the different approaches don't need lists, in the same way KoS and Dreadbash don't need lists - they should be doable in the main list.

    Eldar get a book: covers all the eldars. Dark, Craftworld, Harlies, Exodites, and the different craftoworlds.

    Crons I'm not sure how to handle, since they sit oh so very alone, and don't have variants as such. Put them in a book of OTHER XENOS THREATS possibly? Maybe a pariah list variation? Not sure what's needed here.

    All you'd need to do is cover fluff for everyone in the book, cover all the units, then cover each chapter or equivalent in the rear section with teh options. So you don't get a book 6 times the size of the current book, because you don't need to cover tactical squads 6 times. Chapters only vary in ways that make sense. You could take twice as long on each of these megadexes and they'd still be good. Keep the 2monthly cycle of models going around, many variants won't need new models, and the ones that deserve it should get them, even if they hog a whole release cycle in one of the off months (since we're only releasing the megadexes every 4 months now).

    But GW won't do that, because I'm not sure why.
    It'd please the fans, increace revenue, etc. It would require a change from their current buisness model, but it'd result in a more quality game without the powercreep being as blatant, etc.
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)09:45 No.14644502
    the harlequins did it
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)10:26 No.14644781
    Best teamup ever.
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)10:28 No.14644791
    'Crons could have different Tombworld lists, with different stages of awakening, for instance an "all scarab/wraith variations" list, etc. Plus, different Lord/C'tan choices.
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)10:30 No.14644806
    Anyone who's actually read the Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar fluff and rules would know that putting them in the same book is a stupid, stupid idea. They're totally different.
    >> Red 04/19/11(Tue)10:33 No.14644826
    The way they have it now, people can just acquire the book they want/need and it allows GW to update individual chapters without necessitating a full re-issue of a giant spess mehreen codex tome.

    I wouldn't mind having them release a big codex tome, then individual chapter books when they update. When all the chapters have been updated, time to bind it all together in another codex tome.
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)10:44 No.14644922
    That's rather the point, they should be updating the chapters all at once, not making every second army released a marine one.

    Not really, it works in the same way having Black Templars and Ultramarines, Renegade but not corrupted Astartes and Chaos Marines, or 'Stealer Cults and Hive Fleets in the same book. Sure, D.Eldar and Craftworld Eldar don't normally work together, but they aren't "kill on sight hatehathate" like D.Elves and H.Elves in Fantasy. Also, Corsair fleets do sometimes help Craftworlds (see: Iyanden), and Craftworlds (particularly Biel-tan) sometimes help Exodites out. Plus, all of them get occasional Harlequin visitors, and they all hate Chaos (paricularly Slaanesh) and feel disdain for the lesser races. Plus, I'd think the Dark Eldar would really like the sound of the Craftworld Eldar making Ynnead and dealing with Slaanesh for them.

    True, it's better for the Eldar to have two books, but if everyone else is being merged as well...
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)10:51 No.14644987
    It was more because I had trouble putting the DE in their own book, since I'm unaware of any varient lists they could have. It's the most logical place to put them, unles we can justify giving the Spiked Panzee a whole book to themselves when everyone else is getting merged.

    It's more about getting them to do all the chapters at once, so we don't get a marine army every other month, and the marine armies are all on a par ruleswise. Reduces the need for gimicks, etc.
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)10:58 No.14645029
    Well, they could be fluffed with a number of variant lists: Kabals, Wych cults, Hellion and Reaver gangs, Realspace Raids, etc. And many of the Kabals are quite different, as much so as one Craftworld is from another.
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)11:03 No.14645055
    This thread makes me so glad that you morons will never get anywhere near GW's games development team.
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)11:08 No.14645094
    This was more about letting them cover the factions that have been covered before then adding variants, but it's really a moot point.

    Though I'm interested, can you tell me more about said variants, and why they're equally deserving of their own lists as different craftworlds/klanz/etc. I'm more interested in different Kabals, etc, since they sound more like something that is equivalent, whereas wytch lysts etc, sound more like the equivilent to Kult ov Speed.
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)11:09 No.14645096
    Why so?
    >> Anonymous 04/19/11(Tue)11:10 No.14645107

    We wank much harder than Gav Thorpe and Matt Ward combined.
    >> Red 04/19/11(Tue)11:29 No.14645248
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    This thread needs more crime fighting. I'm back with another drawfag of Badrukk on a warbike with a very cramped Maugan-Ra in the sidecar.
    >> Someone else. !!Qb2aRW+wCPO 04/19/11(Tue)11:34 No.14645273

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