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  • File : 1302971394.jpg-(71 KB, 508x554, final_fantasy_tactics_advance_conceptart(...).jpg)
    71 KB Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:29 No.14612827  
    The Stealthiest Lawful Evil Protagonist in the history of Lawful Evil protagonists.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:32 No.14612848
    Care to share your conspiracy theory?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:33 No.14612852
    He's pretty much right.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:36 No.14612877
    Considering the whole story involves you distroying your friend's dream world so you can force them to all go back to a shitty normal life. . .
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:37 No.14612887
    Everyone know that Marche is the greatest BBEG of all JRPG ever
    >> S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 04/16/11(Sat)12:37 No.14612891
    Sound like reality to me.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:38 No.14612896
    Never trust a man with a pizza cutter sword, OP. Always ask yourself, "Just what kinda pizza is he looking to cut?"
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:38 No.14612897
    Is dat sum Brave Story? Because I never saw that. I played right into his LE hands.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:38 No.14612900
    Said dream world was created by a evil being.

    Said evil being was posing as his mother and manipulating the little shit to do what it wanted.

    And yet people keep saying how Marche is a asshole for wanting to save his brother from said evil being who turned the entire world into a shitty paintball competition.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:40 No.14612909

    also consider that marche wanted to go home, yet was being forced to stay in the dream world.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:42 No.14612923
    >also consider that Hitler wanted to be ruler of the world, yet was being forced to stay in Germany
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:43 No.14612931

    I have to ask- Exactly what was so evil about the fantasy world? I mean, the Queen wasn't even trying to murder the main character until he came face-to-face with her. And, you know, Marche's brother could *walk* in this world. Like hell I'd pass that up.

    I mean, if I was a badass in the dream world, I'd fight tooth-and-nail to stay in it. Why would anyone want to go back?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:44 No.14612940
    Just because you can phrase the sentence the same, does not mean that the premise is the same
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:46 No.14612953
    >My hair is pink, no one will ever make fun of me again!
    >I can walk, no one will ever make fun of me again!
    >An illusion of my mother appeared is taking care of me, providing the maternal figure I need in my life. Through this I can talk now, no one will ever make fun of me again.
    >This world is full of magical beasts and is so much fun!
    Fuck all your shit, we're going home to reality.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:47 No.14612963
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    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:48 No.14612968
    >I have to ask- Exactly what was so evil about the fantasy world?

    How about everbody but Marche and his Brother (And well that girl too, forgot her name. The one that dyes her hair) are the only humans who remember about the other world? All humans are gone. Now they are replaced by a completely different set of humans and fantasy races. yes. Said dream world brought oblivion for Marche's world.

    Even in said "fantasy world", shit was bad. Marche's kid brother was a dictator (well more like the evil being was a dictator manipulating the kid and all that) who did whatever the fuck it wanted with the general population. It even randomzide it's own laws and rules just to make the LARP competition to see more interesting.

    Pretty much the being gave Marche's kid brother everthing he ever wanted - And then proceed to manipulate him, feeding off his hopes and dreams and twisting them to his own vision.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:48 No.14612971
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    >> ­ 04/16/11(Sat)12:50 No.14612977
    You seem to be confusing Marche's kid brother with Newt.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:50 No.14612978
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    Finally I could dump these properly.

    What an asshole.
    >> /d/eviant !P.d6z00F9Y 04/16/11(Sat)12:54 No.14613007
    It's Mewt, not Newt.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:58 No.14613028
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    He knew.

    He knew in his heart that they were all stuck in the inferior Ivalice.

    It was innately wrong and must be destroyed.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)12:59 No.14613034

    Your problem hinges of the idea that the real world was destroyed.

    Maybe it was just the three of them that were shunted?

    And to bring back the world would require killing all the races created.
    >> ­ 04/16/11(Sat)12:59 No.14613037
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    He allways seemed like a newt to me.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:01 No.14613046
    Mewt's dad was also there and the bullies at the beginning where transformed into zombies.
    >> Crix !!nLvSV/0cRma 04/16/11(Sat)13:01 No.14613048
    >He knew in his heart that they were all stuck in the inferior Ivalice.
    >It was innately wrong and must be destroyed.
    But it had Viera!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:01 No.14613053




    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:01 No.14613054


    >goes to jail, rots forever
    >dies in jagd, dies in real life
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:02 No.14613060
    You know what it didn't have? Female humans. Except for that one shopkeeper girl, who was probably a trap.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:03 No.14613063
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    An Ivalice with lizardmen, bloated pigmen and rabbit-women integrating in society?

    Foul creations of the Dark. I will deal them in due time.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:03 No.14613066

    Transformed? or occupied space on a co-current dimension with?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:03 No.14613068
    This is /tg/ so despite any logical debates made, chances are the thread is going to be strongly in favor of escapism.
    My stance is that Reality wins because Judges fucking suck.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:04 No.14613072
    deal WITH them*

    These assless chaps frustrate me to no end! When am I going to get another job? It's been 10 Dark-Damned years!!
    >> /d/eviant !P.d6z00F9Y 04/16/11(Sat)13:04 No.14613077
    I lol'd when I saw those zombies. Fitting end.
    >> Crix !!nLvSV/0cRma 04/16/11(Sat)13:04 No.14613078
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    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:05 No.14613084

    Who needs those when you got hot bunny girls?

    But yeah, his plan involved the genocide of every race but humans and the destruction of the world. If that ain't a douche bag...
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:05 No.14613085
    >there will never be a Vagrant Story 2
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:05 No.14613088
    >Inferior product is actually better because there's something I can jerk off to
    >/tg/ logic
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:06 No.14613096
    Stupid sexy Marche
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:07 No.14613097
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    They had the same names and everything.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:08 No.14613104

    Ok, ok.

    So the zombies had a rough life.

    Shouldn't have pissed off the evil cripple.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:09 No.14613111
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    >Start VS
    >Watch proper intro
    >Eh seems like a cool game but a bit too dreary for my tastes..
    >See this line
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:12 No.14613124
    Everyone who didn't get to be Captain Awesome got it rough.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:14 No.14613129
    Like /tg/ gives a fuck about NPCs. If you take their feelings into account everything's too grimdark.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:15 No.14613131
    It's just such a good game.

    I remember getting to the last boss and being all 'LET'S DO THIS'
    >0 damage
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:16 No.14613137
    Marche was still a bro to all those people and gave them back their lives at the cost of his super awesomeness.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:16 No.14613145
    >oh hai, I lose the debate

    I see what you did there
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:16 No.14613146
    >Everyone who didn't get to be Captain Awesome got it rough.

    Nothing different from real life then. For every celebrity ordering a 200 dollar bottle of wine to have 1 glass there's 20 babies rotting somewhere in a field after dying of malnutrition.

    And just like in real life: Who really gives a shit?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:18 No.14613158
    Hell yeah, the last boss had like... triple the fucking stats of the previous boss so you needed to proper prepare your equipment with gems, buffs and debuffs everywhere.

    It was AWESOME. He was an actual threat unlike most games nowadays.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:21 No.14613165
    >Who really gives a shit?

    Marche gave a shit.
    He took a stand and put the lives of many over those of himself, his brother and his friends.
    He was a true hero.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:21 No.14613170

    Marche never stopped being a kind and caring person. He simply did what he had to do to return to his home. Because a shitty truth is preferable to a beautiful lie.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:25 No.14613188

    It seems odd that anyone would give up, you know, all that power. ALL THAT POWER, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

    Maybe he really liked tomatoes, or something.

    Hell, you couldn't even *die* in Ivalice unless you fought in a Jagd. Just, you know, stay the hell away from it unless you're prepared for the consequences. (Judges still fucking suck, though.)
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:26 No.14613195
    The lives of the generic NPCs went from shit to shit, just different kinds of shit. No change.

    His brother could walk = got forced back on a wheelchair.
    His friend felt confident and normal = went back to being an emarginated freakshow
    His other friend had a strong and charismatic father and a mother = went back to his father being a sad drunk and his mother went back to being DEAD.

    Marche didn't save shit. He imposed his "ugly truth is better than a beautiful lie" opinion on the rest because obviously he has a decent personal life. He's normal, social and confident so obviously he doesn't give a shit about the people with genuine problems.

    He wouldn't have felt like that if he was some quadriplegic orphan.
    >> /d/eviant !P.d6z00F9Y 04/16/11(Sat)13:26 No.14613196
    Honestly, I've never really understood why it was a lie or escapism. The world changed; reality changed. Really, it always struck me as if Marche was the one rejecting (new) reality.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:26 No.14613199
    >Because a shitty truth is preferable to a beautiful lie.

    No, it really isn't. Not for a lot of people. Stop trying to push what you like onto everyone else.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:28 No.14613208
    That would be fine and all, expect everyone in the end got the fuck over their problems and kept on living.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:29 No.14613217

    I'd take the lie anytime, if it's a world when I'm on top, to be completely honest. This isn't even selfish- It's just good sense. Sure, Ivalice isn't perfect, but it beat where he came from. Except for air-conditioning and flushing toilets, and I'm not even sure they *didn't* have that!

    I have no idea how he convinced his brother, though. "Hey, want to go back to being crippled?" Who would ever agree to that?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:30 No.14613223
    The world wasn't changed. A fake world was created from the mind of Newt. Thats why only the people Newt cared about remained individuals. Thats why the bullies were zombies. This was all a lie created from Newt's mind.

    Marche isn't a fucking vulcan or communist. The needs of the many don't mean shit to him. And he's not an elected leader. A majority vote didn't matter.

    He saw the world as a illusion it was, and as a good leader he stepped up and did something to fix it.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:31 No.14613227
    because the kid wasn't JUST crippled. His bum legs pales in comparison to his sickness.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:31 No.14613230
    Of course they did, they DIDN'T HAVE A FUCKING CHOICE!

    If S-E was realistic they would've made everyone try to brutally murder Marche for (quite literally) ruining their life.

    But noooooooo, we need to have some form of Power Rangers-esque moral at the end of the story.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:31 No.14613232

    That "Evil Being" was the hopes and reams of the world IIRC
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:32 No.14613240

    Now, if it was the Ivalice from the original Final Fantasy Tactics, then I'd want to go back home. That place was full of corrupt assholes and demons and I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in that society for the rest of my life.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:33 No.14613249

    Yeah, but think about it- Was his real life so awesome, he had to go back to it? He was a ten-year kid getting picked on at school, and in the other one he was an epic fantasy hero. Also, what in hell happened to all the friends he met over *there*? Effectively, he KILLED THEM ALL.

    Because of him, they all CEASED TO EXIST. I mean, it's not like they 'left' that world- They literally killed that reality when it crumbled.

    ...Mewt's prince hairstyle was a good reason to give him an asskicking, though.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:34 No.14613261
    Meh, I agree with him. Burying your head in your ass is pathetic and irresponsible.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:34 No.14613263
    But nothing was ruined. They returned to their old lives, it wasn't like it only got worst.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:35 No.14613271
    >The lives of the generic NPCs went from shit to shit, just different kinds of shit. No change.

    >His brother could walk = got forced back on a wheelchair.
    >His friend felt confident and normal = went back to being an emarginated freakshow
    >His other friend had a strong and charismatic father and a mother = went back to his father being a sad drunk and his mother went back to being DEAD.

    The lives of those three do not outweigh the lives of all the "generic NPCs", those people where just as real, they had just as many dreams and aspirations.

    >because obviously he has a decent personal life.

    He was physically pretty shitty and his only friends where his brother, the "emarginated freakshow" and Mewt. His life didn't seem all that great.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:35 No.14613273

    Tell that to Montblanc.

    Unless he was secretly a nihlist trying to bring about the end of all things...Kupo!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:37 No.14613286
    The game never stated that it was a dream world. For all we know, all the People who used to be regular Ivalice dudes had great lives (Yes even the zombies, zombies can be happy too jerks)

    Then Marche killed them all.

    Also. Marche's dream? What was it? Everyone else got something cool out of going to the Another Dimension.

    I think it was to be a supervillian.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:37 No.14613288

    You don't have an opportunity to escape from grimdark Ivalice. The best you could hope for is that your life history is rehabilitated by biographers three centuries after being burned at the stake for heresy.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:38 No.14613293
    If it had been me who went to Ivalice? Marche wouldn't have been /capable/ of dragging me back.

    See, I would've started an assassins guild.

    Marche walks in one day and I greet him warmly, he tells me we need to go back. I try to talk him down of course, the man deserves a chance. I give to him some of the arguments presented in this thread, but we all know the protagonist of a JRPG is always stubborn. He doesn't give in. Hell, maybe it even makes him MORE determined.

    Then he notices something strange going on. He's dizzy even though he's sitting down.

    Oh, you didn't notice? That viera waitress who served you your drink is on my payroll. So is the moogle bard playing the magic lullaby over there. Don't forget that wonderful chef who put special monster gibblets into your food.

    The next thing Marche knows, he's been turned to stone, shattered, ground into a fine dust and spread across the ocean from an airship.

    Fascist little faggot.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:38 No.14613295
    Of course he ruined their lives..

    Imagine you win the lottery or do some kind of awesome deed that brought you renown across the entire world. You have everything you always wanted but unfortunately (and realistically) you turn into a bit of an asshole.

    One of your friends who thinks you should stop being an asshole somehow ruins everything and brings you back to your original fame (ie: none) and you're just another nobody again.

    He'd have ruined your life because it got substantially better and then some asshole saw fit to bring it down because he personally felt inconvenienced.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:39 No.14613299
    Did you have fun thinking up an elaborate fantasy regarding the death of a JRPG protagonist from a Game Boy game?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:40 No.14613311
    Yes, I consider it a writing exercise.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:40 No.14613312

    I'd imagine so. I had fun reading it.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:40 No.14613313
    Escapism is a huge problem in Japan

    that's the point, we're not Japanese so its not as noticable to us
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:41 No.14613317
    I seem to remember montblanc not giving two royal fucks and being the same in A2.

    shouldn't that automatically raise a red flag? everyones lives seemingly improved in some way except for Marche's. Why?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:41 No.14613323
    And? Are you stating it as a question or a fact?

    Because we already knew that. I mean, the ungrateful little bastard destroyed a world created out of the dreams of him and his friends because he, specifically, didn't like it. The reason? It, "wasn't real." Even though he could bleed, hurt, and even die, the world wasn't real because it was converted from his old world by a magic book.

    The world wasn't evil, it didn't destroy his world, just changed it. None of the monsters or bad guys were inherently evil, just jerks or pawns, really... The book turned his world into his and his friends' dream game and put them in it as the main characters. And what did he do?

    He stabbed the embodiment of the book, who also happened to be its recreation of his best friend's mother, to death. Right in front of said friend.

    "No, fuck this world, it isn't real enough for me. We're all going home, whether you childish little bastards want to or not, just so the game company that made this game can make a hypocritical statement about how we should put down our fantasy games and go outside."
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:41 No.14613324
    Nobody voted to be transferred to fantasy land and transformed into a bunch of monsters.

    Marche is a warrior of justice, freeing people and giving them the right to choose. He had to crush his friends first for the good of the many.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:42 No.14613327
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    Oh how cute, he differed in opinion with his crazy friend on how best to cope with the human condition, escapism or stoicism or whatever Japan feels is deep today. It really sounds more like an intense debate, not a struggle between good and evil.

    You know what makes someone evil? When their solution to coping with the human condition involves handcuffs, a radiator in a hotel room in Compton, three, some tourniquets and a hacksaw.

    Making someone deal with their own craziness instead of dragging the rest of the world into Scarytown USA doesn't make you evil, it makes you Scully.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:42 No.14613328
    So nothing strikes either of you as remotely questionable about the fact that you just murdered a child in order to indulge your fantasy? You know, the kind of behavior that made him want to leave in the first place? Truly, you are a beacon of light against his restrictive darkness.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:42 No.14613329

    I'm telling you, this is the kind of thing that gives you permanent trauma. The next time that redhead gets bullied on the playground, she's going to remember the time she fought off the Behemoth, and stab someone in the throat with a stick.

    I mean, they spent months over there, fighting! I can't believe it all magically went away. In this wargame, Eien no Aselia, the main character- After being sent to another world to fight in a literal war- realizes that he can't go home again, because how the fuck would he reconcile all the MURDER with high-school drama?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:43 No.14613342
    >The lives of those three do not outweigh the lives of all the "generic NPCs", those people where just as real, they had just as many dreams and aspirations.

    But they were still neck-deep in shit...
    Instead of getting stabbed and raped by some Burmese soldier, he dies in an alley somewhere in Ivalice next to a Bangaa.

    What the fuck is the difference. He didn't change anything. It was shit regardless! What is your point?

    >He was physically pretty shitty and his only friends where his brother, the "emarginated freakshow" and Mewt. His life didn't seem all that great.

    He had all his limbs and he wasn't being bullied left right and center and he was physically healthy. He wasn't Phelps-level of health but he was physically and mentally sound so he doesn't really know what the fuck it means to have crippling disabilities of the body and mind like his friends.

    At the end of the story, he was just some asshole who imposed his stubborn and vainglorious belief of "TRUTH PREVAILZ!!1"
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:43 No.14613344
    What part of Evil are you not getting?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:43 No.14613348
    but none of the kids worked for the change, they made a wish and it happened. There was no fruits of their labor, it was "well if we wish our problems away everything will be all sunshine and sparkles forever."
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:45 No.14613365
    The part where you called him a, quote, fascist little faggot, unquote.

    It's not hard to imagine thwarting him on direct grounds, especially if you're going to do that hilarious little "i own this town" bit where you pretend you've got charisma and influence. The argument was on moral grounds, not on "i would totally own his little faggot ass" grounds.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:45 No.14613372
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    Hey guys! Can I play?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:46 No.14613373
    ITT lifeless neckbeards living in their basements and wishing for a fantasy life like this, feel like Marche did something to personally insult them for daring to want to live in the real world
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:46 No.14613376
    >Instead of getting stabbed and raped by some Burmese soldier, he dies in an alley somewhere in Ivalice next to a Bangaa.
    I am like 99% certain that the SINGLE TOWN OF ST. IVALICE did not have any Burmese soldiers in it. If you have a guide you'd like to point me to, feel free.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:46 No.14613380
    Dear god you're actually taking that seriously? That was not meant to be an argument in any way shape or form. That was escapist fantasy written about escapist fantasy as a dark joke.

    Fuckin chill.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:47 No.14613387
    No, Luso. You can go fuck yourself and your godawful character design forever.

    The rest of your game wasn't as bad as everyone says though.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:47 No.14613391

    Fucking hell I forget just how goddamn ridiculous the character designs for these games were.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:48 No.14613392
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:48 No.14613393
    So you indulge yourself by writing fantasies about murdering children. Good to know, especially given how tough an opponent the average 12 year old is.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:48 No.14613396
    I don't think he is that lawful with his world-destroying stuff and actually breaking laws when he has an opportunity.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:48 No.14613397
    Three prostitutes, damn it, that was important. For context. He could just be fixing the radiator otherwise. Can you fix a radiator with a hacksaw? Do we have any radiator experts in here?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:48 No.14613398
    Good luck doing that without a Judge stopping you. The only place you'd have a chance is the Jagds and I'm pretty sure Marche wouldn't stop for a drink.

    Marche destroyed the fascist world of Mewt and the Li-Grim.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:48 No.14613399
    Yes, their screams are music and their tears are strawberry gravy.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:49 No.14613406

    To be fair, Marche was ten, and he ended up with a group of mercenaries in about, what, an hour. So did that girl- Reiz, was it? His brother ended up an information broker. It's not a stretch to assume that you'd be in a similar position, if you ended up there...For the sake of argument, at least.

    I'd probably have just turned it into a no-holds-barred fight in a Jagd, and said something to the effect of- "If you really want to destroy Ivalice, you'll have to kill me. Because I'd rather die here, as a hero, than live out there."
    >> [HdrA]Dragon !!Be87JOBWQm0 04/16/11(Sat)13:50 No.14613416
    Best party members ever

    They were helping you erase themselves out of existance

    That's some fucking loyalty I'll tell ya
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:50 No.14613419
    I don't even think of Marche as a child. I think of him as a douchebag with way too much power.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:51 No.14613421
    I swear I'm getting trolled. Why are you taking it so literally?

    The point I was trying to convey that most of the generic everymen were still going to live and die horribly without ever having their dreams fulfilled REGARDLESS if they're on Earth or Ivalice.

    Therefore, Marche changes nothing but the method of suffering. They still suffer just as much.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:51 No.14613422
    Muscle memory is a bitch. I doubt their bodies remember anything.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:51 No.14613424
    Maybe Marche was just living out his own fantasy world the whole time.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:51 No.14613426
    >Because I'd rather die here, as a hero, than live out there."
    What, exactly, makes you a "hero"?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:52 No.14613436

    Isn't it obvious? I'll be fighting to save the world. *My* world. Ain't nothing more heroic than that.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:52 No.14613438
    Except all the people from the real world were from the town of St. Ivalice. Poor people in the first world have it better than most people in the third world. Therefore, the "lowest rung" in reality is higher than "being stabbed to death by a Bangaa".
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:52 No.14613439
    there was a case earlier that year of a kid killing himself because he'd rather live in the videogame world, FFTA was sort of like Square-Enix's response to that.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:53 No.14613443
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    >my face when this game was social commentary
    Holy shit.

    brb replaying. Think I'll roll Thief again. Did some crazy shit with that last go.
    >stack over 85% evasion
    >damage > MP
    >White Magic
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:53 No.14613445
    He could reasonably tell everyone that Marche is someone looking to destroy the world. Fighting someone like that to the death generally makes you a hero in the eyes of the people.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:53 No.14613446
    Come to Balamb Garden, bro.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:53 No.14613449
    What, like an internal heating unit? Depends what's wrong with it. I guess you could replace a convection fin with the sawblade. It'd suck though.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:53 No.14613450
    Uh, I'm pretty sure "saving the world" is only heroic if you're doing it for reasons other than "immediate self-preservation".

    >I'm fighting because I want to stay here, and I hate other people who disagree! I want to indulge myself at the expense of others! Ain't nothin' more heroic than that!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:54 No.14613452
    >mfw you built an awesome radiatorbot that radiates happiness and solves all the worlds problems
    Nice going, Anon.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:54 No.14613455
    I freely admit you are 100% right.

    If I was in that position I would jump on Marche like a L4D Hunter the first fucking moment I see him.

    "I KNOW HOW THIS TURNS OUT. CLOSE YOUR EYES MONTBLANC, THIS AIN'T GONNA BE PRETTY" as I lunge at him wielding the nearest brick I can grab.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:56 No.14613465

    Self-preservation? What self-preservation? If he only wanted to preserve himself, he'd just have to step aside and not get in his way. This is about principle.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:56 No.14613467
    You see this, guys? This is why you shouldn't be allowed to have escapism. Because it makes you talk like this.

    "Like a L4D hunter". Jesus Christ, are you 14?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:57 No.14613474
    >this is why you shouldn't be allowed to have escapism
    All roleplaying games are escapism. All of them.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:57 No.14613479
    Yeah, the principle of "I want to keep having fun."

    I hear if you kill yourself in Ivalice you end up on Pandora.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:58 No.14613483
    The point remains.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:58 No.14613485

    >I'm fighting because I want to go home, and everyone who wants to stay can get fucked! I want to indulge myself at the expense of others! Ain't nothin' more heroic than that!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:58 No.14613487
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    24 actually.

    What's wrong with talking like that? It's escapism and therefore I enjoy doing what it entails, aka: daydream about living in such a world.

    You're on /tg/ and you're trolling people for doing what the board is about: Roleplaying.

    Go the fuck away :V
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)13:58 No.14613491
    And here I was thinking today was a wash.
    >> /d/eviant !P.d6z00F9Y 04/16/11(Sat)13:59 No.14613497
    Troll harder, lah.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:00 No.14613501
    >implying marche didn't like the new ivalice just as much as the old one
    >implying marche was just fighting for himself
    If he didn't give a fuck about others, he wouldn't have bothered trying to convince THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY REMEMBER ST.IVALICE
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:01 No.14613505
    >What's wrong with talking like that? It's escapism and therefore I enjoy doing what it entails,
    I mean you talk like you've never actually spoken to a real human being and you learned everything from anime. It's a stilted declaration that relies on edgy "look how badass I am in this theoretical construct". Yeah, I'm sure in a world full of swords and magic you're going to wreck some shit with, you know, a brick. If you play roleplaying games just for the opportunity to pretend you (as in, you personally, not a character) are a badass, then that's laughable. And I'm going to laugh at you for it.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:01 No.14613507
    Hahaha. So what are you doing here? You play 40k? Flames of War? What? Why do you like those games?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:01 No.14613508
    It's really the only logical solution.

    Ritz got her hair.
    Mewt got his mom.
    ... Bro got his legs (Fuck I don't know his name)
    And Marche? Marche got a legion of mercenaries willing to die for him. He rallied all the rebels, shattered the things holding the world together, then challenged the embodiment of all the worlds hopes and dreams to a fight and stabbed it to death. How is that not evil?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:02 No.14613514
    That means Marche is in some insane asylum in St. Ivalice in their reality.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:02 No.14613515
    Three people wanted to stay. Everyone else was reconfigured into something else without their consent. They where reality raped.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:03 No.14613520
    That world never really existed in the first place. They were all demon-spawned constructs created from the mind of a single emotionally fucked kid that needed to face hte real world.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:03 No.14613524

    To be fair, a ten year-old beat up the god of that world. It's not implausible...ESPECIALLY IF YOU TAKE MONK.

    Goddamn Monks and duel-wield.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:03 No.14613526


    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:04 No.14613528
    Maybe he's good at hiding it?

    Really it's the only reason I can figure out that he didn't get some cool dream related thing.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:04 No.14613530
    >Yeah, I'm sure in a world full of swords and magic you're going to wreck some shit with, you know, a brick.

    You don't find it amusing that in a world of swords and magic, someone getting the upper hand with a brick like a chav isn't amusing? Sounds like you got a hefty dose of autism, brah.

    >If you play roleplaying games just for the opportunity to pretend you (as in, you personally, not a character) are a badass, then that's laughable. And I'm going to laugh at you for it.

    WHOOOOOAAAAAAAA, generalizations and assumptions out the ass. Perhaps you need a relaxing drink or perhaps a pacifier.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:05 No.14613540
    The number one reason why Marche is such a flaming asshole is not that he dragged his crippled brother back to a life of abject misery because it was "Real". Although, that's a big part of it.

    No, the real reason is his sense of fucking entitlement in doing this despite it being against the will of everyone else involved. "They're not real people." he seemed to say, "They don't get a vote."

    This is exactly the attitude of fascists, racists, and every other "Ist" that most reasonable people hate. That other people don't get to make decisions, because they don't meet criteria that YOU get to decide on.

    You can disagree with the idea of escapism all you like. But it isn't for you to decide whether people should get to 'Escape' or not. If a future comes where we can all immerse ourselves in a virtual reality world with no problems or suffering, and you don't like it, you get to eat shit and deal with it, because it's not your choice.

    Marche was a true "Stop liking things that I don't like!" faggot, and he raped a universe full of people out of existence because he could.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:06 No.14613545
    >>14613505 "look how badass I am in this theoretical construct".

    I work with lots of teenagers. They always argue why their favorite anime hero would beat the other.

    I think they should play D&D2e
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:06 No.14613550
    Interesting point, but that would make him an Anarcho-Syndicalist Nihilist rather than Fluffy-the-destroy-of-Worlds

    capcha: Torrent GET. Dammit, how did you know?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:06 No.14613551
    Well, at least one good thing came out of this thread: nerds coming up with elaborate fantasies to defend their theoretical escapist universe. By which I mean it's fucking funny as hell to read grown men think up ways to beat up a 12 year old and then think of themselves as being heroic.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:08 No.14613563
    The whole "power level" bullshit is the stupidest shit. It's all fucking fictional, guys, you can just make it up. It's not grounded in any way. "Oh yeah well if I fought Marche I would be the most powerful battler and I would use the katana sword to explode his head like in my favorite mango"
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:09 No.14613570
    >because he could

    You truly are an idiot, aren't you? Stop working from the assumption that Marche was wrong, when the post-game content of the game proves emphatically that he was right.

    He did it because that world wasn't real. He saw that world for the demon-spawned illusionary construct that it was. It is as simple as that.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:09 No.14613573
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    Here is the best argument for Marche's actions:
    They were justified because he could enforce them at his friends' protest.
    Given a person with a certain mindset that contrasts with others, whether right or wrong, the person that can enforce those mindsets will.
    The strong survive.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:09 No.14613578
    1. Truth is important.
    2. The friend winds up becoming happy again IRL.
    3. DAT VERY ENDING (your little brother learns to walk again ;_; )
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:11 No.14613587
    What about all the people of St. Ivalice?
    They didn't get a vote, Marche was restoring them to being.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:11 No.14613591

    Confirmed troll.

    This is /tg/. If there's no 'game' involved, you're doing it wrong.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:12 No.14613600
    Switch the roles. Marche doesn't like escapism and is trapped in this fake world. A bunch of asshole kids prevent him from leaving a world that he can't suspend his disbelief and enjoy.

    It's like somebody is forcing him to play a system that he doesn't find too compelling, but for the rest of his life.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:13 No.14613604

    That's 'compromising'. That's not exactly a happy ending.


    Who said they all wanted to go back to the way they were?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:13 No.14613605
    It doesn't matter.

    "It wasn't real." isn't an excuse. Why wasn't it real? Who gets to define what "Real" is?

    If you prick them, do they not bleed? Could you not see Ivalice, touch it, taste it, examine it objectively and note it's traits? Did wine in Ivalice not get you drunk? Did a sword not produce agony as it was thrust through your ribs? Did the touch of a woman not feel as electric and right?

    No. Marche made a decision and imposed it on the whole of a world. It doesn't matter that it wasn't 'Real.'

    It was real ENOUGH.

    And Marche killed it in an orgy of solipsistic self-righteousness.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:13 No.14613607
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    To be fair, if I could pull the plug on a bunch of people who thought it'd be cool to upload themselves into the data-angel dream, I'd do it.
    It's not even that I disagree with the idea, it's just that... I mean damn. We've all trolled. All of us, at least once. This is the height of trolling. And if they get mad, you can shrug and say "It wasn't real."

    And THAT is the sweetest thing of all. Because it's true.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:15 No.14613614
    Except Marche has no reason to believe the world is a fantasy. For all he knows whatever magic transported him and friends to Ivalice also healed their ills. He is, for all he knows, destroying an entire universe full of sentient beings just so he can get home and kidnapping his friends and forcing them to help him.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:15 No.14613620
    They lost their fucking memory. They didn't get to be remember their previous lives, only the fabricated one.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:15 No.14613621

    Except, you know, that probably wouldn't end well for you. Because they'd know who to blame. It's a fun idea, but I'm under no illusions they'd hunt me down and feed me to my own asshole if I tried that.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:16 No.14613623
    So he should figure out a way to leave that doesn't smash everyone else's toys, or he can learn to fucking deal with it.

    Marche was an ignorant, selfish child given far too much power.

    When it comes down to it, he formulated an opinion and forced it on an entire world.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:16 No.14613624
    There's rules to a game, sure. But how many games do you play that have equal rules for PCs and NPCs? The only one I can name is WFRP. I'm pretty sure D&D, on the other hand, treats NPCs like second class citizens - and players bitch when they're not considered super-special heroes of the universe.

    The fact that you followed the game rules to be objectively superior to everyone else doesn't mean it wasn't, you know, effortless on your part. You "earned" it by right of being a PC.

    >If you prick them, do they not bleed?
    I'm pretty sure they didn't.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:16 No.14613625
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    But then if Marche was really a fucking "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" "TRUE BRO" like you people are saying, he wouldn't mind because only he is suffering while all his friends are happy as fuck.

    Argument status:

    [] Not Told
    [] Told
    [] Toldasaurus Rex
    [] Toldra Dominatus
    [] Told for the Told God
    [x] Told.. Told never changes.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:17 No.14613630
    It was Marche's freedom vs the world's freedom. Do either have a right to enforce their beliefs on the other? Probably not, but one of them inevitably has the ABILITY to enforce it, which in the absence of justification, will become the apparent solution.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:17 No.14613633

    Is there actually a right answer to this question? Some people would be objectively better off where they were, and some would be worse off, as it always is.

    ...Now my head hurts.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:17 No.14613639
    Unplugging it wouldn't actually do any harm. They'd just plug it back in and go right back to it, maybe with a few minutes worth of data lost. You'd have inconvenienced people.

    Marche murdered them.

    No, to troll on Marche's level, you'd have to get an army of either like-minded or greedy people together and go through the banks of people hooked up to their VR simulation, methodically stabbing each one in the throat, or tear down all of civilization itself and declare technology illegal.
    >> /d/eviant !P.d6z00F9Y 04/16/11(Sat)14:19 No.14613647
    Confirmed for Neutral Evil.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:19 No.14613649
    I'm pretty sure the people were left alive. Some of them, like Montblank, are still around in Ivalice, which still exist, while others, like the bullies, were returned to the real world where they were not mindless zombies.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:19 No.14613651
    He also cares about his friends growing up with a warped sense of problem solving.
    "You have a minor verbal disagreement? FIGHT!"
    "You don't like the hair that makes you unique?MAGIC!"

    You don't learn how to solve your problems, only how to make them go away.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:20 No.14613656
    >Who said they all wanted to go back to the way they were?

    Nobody since they where all mind raped so that they didn't remember the past.
    It's possible some wanted to stay but I'm sure those that got killed in the Jagds and those that got turned into slime monsters and the like wouldn't.
    The three essentially sacrificed everyone else's lives so that they could be happy. Marche stepped in and liberated everyone.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:21 No.14613665
    You've got me there. I'll never be as good of a troll as Marche.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:21 No.14613666
    Assuming everyone's actually ok in the fantasy world is another huge assumption. For all Marche (and everyone else) knew, they were dying on a hospital bed in a coma somewhere while they were getting their jollies off in the dream world. That sort of stuff is why the 'lie' is so hard to swallow. You have to take a lot of chances to believe it's better than the concrete truth you know.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:21 No.14613667

    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:21 No.14613669
    >If you prick them, do they not bleed?

    No, they didn't. They either got better or were turned into crystals and died then had their souls eaten by a demon.

    It wasn't real enough. All the scenes with the characters who remembered who they were freely admitted it. They knew it was fake. But only Marche had the willpower to not be absorbed by it.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:21 No.14613672

    If you can make your problems go away, do you really need to solve them? We only solve things we can't deal with in other ways- It doesn't make us better people.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:22 No.14613677
    You can solve your problems with violence in real life, too.

    It's just frowned upon, because, you know, it's an asshole thing to do. But it's the norm in Ivalice.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:23 No.14613679
    >and died then had their souls eaten by a demon.
    If they had souls, they were as real as they come.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:23 No.14613685
    I'm pretty sure you've never played the game.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:24 No.14613688
    All it proves is that children are fucking sociopaths, and it is a damn good thing they're so small and weak or the world would be fucked.

    We need to determine at what age a person develops compassion and empathy for others and just start cloning people at that age.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:24 No.14613693
    Solving a problem = making it go away = Problem doesn't exist anymore.

    And on your OTHER point, so what? Humankind has spent THOUSANDS OF YEARS solving it's problems with fighting and are we fucked beyond repair? No, we're better than ever.

    Tome it just sounds like you're some moralfag who gets his g-string in a bunch when someone fights as opposed to diplomacy at every turn out of some social-sense that it's "barbaric" or "uncivilised" to do so (which is amusing cause we've only stopped keeping slaves and killing random people for chips for less than 200 years as opposed to THOUSANDS of years)

    Besides, even in a fantasy world you could do all that civilised tripe. Play FF12 (also set in Ivalice). Just because you can cast fireball doesn't mean you HAVE to solve every minor dispute by summoning a meteor from the heavens..
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:25 No.14613705
    So yeah, it wasn't real.

    It was BETTER.

    Real life minus death and plus dragons sounds like a good deal to me.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:26 No.14613709
    Marche was right in retrospect, but I still say he's a villain. As has been pointed out, he had no way of knowing, at the time, that the world was a fabrication and not simply an alternate universe into which he had been pulled. He was willing to destroy an entire universe and all the people in it just to get home. He just happened to be lucky and it was all a dream.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:26 No.14613710
    It was the freedom of the people of St. Ivalice vs Three peoples self insert fanfiction.

    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:27 No.14613719
    >implying souls isn't just a metaphor

    And if the concept of a soul isn't a simple metaphor then they were the people of the real world that were transformed against their will, had their memories blanked and were mind controlled into believing they liked this new world.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:28 No.14613727
    Confirmed for fifteen year old.

    Look pud monkey, just because throughout history the norm was "The Asshole with the biggest army wins." doesn't mean that's the right way to do things. We kind of settled on social democracy because it's the best thing we've found so far for making the greatest number of people the happiest and healthiest they can be.

    We're beginning to figure out, as a species, that forcing people to obey you just because you can tends to end up with one person happy and a fuckton of people miserable. And people like you would have us go back to that.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:28 No.14613728
    I'd pay for a grimdark FFTA with Marche ending up in an insane asylum with PTSD due to setting an entire UNIVERSE to the flame.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:28 No.14613730
    Not when every instance of your existence you see the world that was and know where you currently are is a lie created buy a demon.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:29 No.14613736
    He knew from the moment he shattered the first crystal that what he was doing was right and just.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:30 No.14613745
    I love to play a barbarian whos only goal in life is to beat the fucking shit out of everyone. Quite assuming shit if you have no real evidence.

    Secondly, Making something disappear =! fixing it
    Third, characters were getting in fights over SIMPLE fax paus' and misinformation. Mewt the undisputed ruler of ivalice, used laws and soldiers to fight marche instead of talking to him.THE RULER OF THE LAND.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:31 No.14613747

    Who cares if it's a lie made by a demon? The demon never did anything to hurt ME.

    I'd argue that it's not even really evil. It's pretty racist to say that just because it's a demon it must be evil. In fact, it's motivations just plain don't matter to me. As long as it goes out of it's way to make me happy, it's alright in my books.

    Thing is, I just plain don't care if it's real. If it's a better deal than I've got now, I'll take it, if it's not, I won't.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:31 No.14613749
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    Surprising amount of blue pillers here.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:31 No.14613750

    Admittedly, he was probably crazy by then. The Mog was totally a figment of his tortured imagination, guiding him onward to greater atrocity.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:31 No.14613754
    No sir, i'm 24. And I never said I'd have us go back to that package of running things.

    I merely stated that violence is an ok method to dealing with problems sometimes. Diplomacy is fine but some situations and people can only be helped with a 2x4 to the face.

    I apologize for the name-calling, THAT is 15-year-old-worthy. I just really hate snobs who think that violence in all its forms is some kind of extremely unsanitary method. It's necessary sometimes and there's no harm in exercising it.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:31 No.14613755
    Judging by the people in this thread claiming they're adults, "never".
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:32 No.14613759
    >Implying we are not still, and will not remain indefinitely, there.
    Chain of have and have not hasn't changed much. We've just got more drugs now.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:32 No.14613761
    The fact that you suck at roleplaying realistic characters has no bearing on anything else.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:32 No.14613762
    >The demon never did anything to hurt ME.

    If your not a main character you're mindraped and changed into something that you weren't.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:32 No.14613763

    Yeah, but you know, you couldn't die unless you were in a Jagd. The laws were bullshit, but they made combat about as lethal as a lovetap.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:32 No.14613765
    >Diplomacy is fine but some situations and people can only be helped with a 2x4 to the face.
    In Ivalice, those problems are "you have something I want and I don't want to pay you for it".

    No, really, that's an actual quest option at several points.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:34 No.14613776
    >They'd just plug it back in and go right back to it, maybe with a few minutes worth of data lost.

    Well, I for one would take the few minutes outside awesomereality to punch the troll who DC'd us, but yeah, you're mostly right.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:34 No.14613778
    Violence is only necessary to defend oneself, or in some cases, innocents who can't defend themselves, against outside aggression.

    I agree that it's impractical to say that violence can never be used to solve problems, but the truth is that violence almost always creates more problems than it solves.

    Armed pacifism for the win.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:34 No.14613779
    Did he? It's been a while. But I do know he didn't know before he shattered the first crystal.

    So we are still left with someone who was willing to destroy an entire universe to get home. He began his work of unmaking reality and then found out "oh, wait, it's not real!"

    So either way he's still a fucking omnicidal madman who was literally willing to destroy an entire reality to get home.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:34 No.14613781

    If Neo had taken the blue pill, he'd have avoided turning Agent Smith into a WORLD-ENDING THREAT. Also, a lot less people would have died.

    If that's the standard we're going by, I would take the blue pill any time.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:35 No.14613785
    Good luck doing that with your atrophied muscles.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:36 No.14613794
    That idea has never bothered me. If I wasn't me, I wouldn't have any objections because the person I was had always been themselves. It would neither surprise nor offend me to learn that I used to be someone else.

    Besides, if that's the only problem you have with that world, than it is at worst exactly as bad as real life is. That's how things already work. You're either a member of the elect and have a nice, pleasant, interesting life, or you're part of the majority of the species and live in miserable squalor before dying, unremembered.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:38 No.14613804
    Electrostimulation can be used to avoid muscle atrophy.

    In fact, all you'd really need to do is periodically dose yourself with drugs to prevent the atrophy-reaction from taking place.

    Not possible now, but by the time it comes to the point where lots of people are living in VR, it's not an unreasonable prediction.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:39 No.14613819
    actually that's not strictly true.

    Marche, Reis (sp?), his brother remember what the other world was like.

    Mewt remembers but the power of his mother/book keeps him from remembering most the time.

    Cid, Mewt's father remembers the real world after a bit of work on Marche's part and says fuck this i am out of here.

    people don't lose their memories outright they were more pasted over depending on their proximity to the stabilising elements in Ivalice.

    also where does his little brother learn to walk again? been years since i played it and i thought he just got over sulking about his legs being ruined
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:39 No.14613820
    That's exactly how an evil person thinks.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:41 No.14613840

    My version had her as Ritz if that helps.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:42 No.14613843
    No, that's how an average person thinks. Selfishness is the norm.

    Selfishness to the degree that you're willing to fuck over literally everyone else? That's evil.

    I'm still waiting to here why this illusory world made by a demon is less valid than ours. If you believe most of the major religions, it too was magicked out of nothing by a mystical creature, and not too long ago either. Even if you don't, why is a designed world less real than a natural one?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:42 No.14613844
    The librarian in the start of FFTA2 is "Mr. Randell"
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:43 No.14613857
    I'm seeing a lot of people using the fact that the world was changed and everyone was mindraped into a new personality as justification for changing it back, but I find that incredibly full of shit. Yes, the fact that the world was changed was a tragedy, but changing it back just repeats the tragedy on everyone in the new world. To all appearances, the citizens of Ivalice were sentient, rational beings just as much as the original humans were. Changing the world back means killing everyone in the world AGAIN, just to restore the old world.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:44 No.14613870
    I'm inclined to agree. He sounds evil and extremely selfish.

    But then again, it's the most realistic answer than half his thread with the whole "It is SHAMEFUR DISPRAY to live a lie!"

    Gimme a fucking break. Every single person would adore that kind of world when you get down to brass tacks.

    Sure, I'd get out of my comfort zone and not be casually lounging about my house playing vidya, reading books and hanging out with my friends a few times a week (something i'm extremely comfortable with) and I'd be thrown into a world where magic and fantastic monsters live but shit I'd make the best of it.

    We're mostly all roleplayers here. We have experience with vidya, books or tabletop stories. After a short while composing ourselves (crying like a bitch, shitting ourselves in public and trying to bang the nearest Viera) we'd likely assess the situation and use our outsider knowledge to get into the cushy seats of said world.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:47 No.14613889
    >Trying to bang the nearest Viera

    Implying I would ever stop doing this. Tall leggy brown women with sexy accents and rabbit ears are my fetish.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:48 No.14613902
    Wasn't implying you'd stop but it would be the first damn thing you'd try. After becoming some kind of rich senator using our outsider knowledge, you could have your own goddamned bunny-bitch harem.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:48 No.14613903

    Yeah, I'd be freaked out uright p to the point I realized I could throw fireballs. HORY SHIT- After that, I'd never even think about going home.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:50 No.14613920
    What about when you realize other people can throw fireballs right back?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:51 No.14613926
    If you're a non-american I apologize, but we live in a world where people can throw, not fireballs, but supersonic little wads of lead, every single day.

    Somehow, most of us manage to go unmurdered.

    It has something to do with not casually tossing around our own little bits of lead where other people are in the way.
    >> /d/eviant !P.d6z00F9Y 04/16/11(Sat)14:51 No.14613927
    That's what auto-shell equipment is for.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:52 No.14613932
    >Humankind has spent THOUSANDS OF YEARS solving it's problems with fighting and are we fucked beyond repair?
    Have you noticed that humanity only really gets things done when it stops fighting?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:54 No.14613947
    That's not QUITE true.

    Humanity mostly gets things done when we're gearing up for the next big war. And if that war never actually, in point of fact, occurs? Much the better.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:54 No.14613950
    >Every single person would adore that kind of world when you get down to brass tacks.
    I wouldn't
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:56 No.14613967
    America has a murder rate only matched by countries run by drug lords.
    >> Suck it Dr. Light Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:56 No.14613970
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    I submit to you that I, Marche Radiuju, am the single greatest villain to ever grace a game with my presence.
    Can you honestly still support that half-price Joker knockoff?
    All he accomplished was to kill a large number of people before being beaten.
    He had the power of a god and was still brought down by a group of mortals quoting a self-help book.
    My accomplishments are far greater.
    I destroyed the world with nothing more than my own sword and a couple of mercenaries. And this was not some minor act of destruction; I made it permanently cease to exist.
    And this is still not the greatest of my sins. To accomplish this apocalyptic goal, I destroyed a being made of the collective hopes and dreams of the world. I killed HOPE ITSELF.
    Can anyone ever top this? After accomplishing this, my friends, dead on the inside from what I had done, thanked me for doing it.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:57 No.14613973
         File1302980232.jpg-(63 KB, 720x720, 1273466273210.jpg)
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    To me it's not even so much about him being a good or bad guy, but of being a complete idiot WHO NEVER ONCE IN ANY VERSION OF THE GAME MADE ANY RATIONAL ARGUMENT BESIDES "BECAUSE I THINK IT'S RIGHT AND FUCK ALL Y'ALL NIGGERS"
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:57 No.14613974

    Fair enough. I would.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:58 No.14613989
    thanks, it's been too long since i played it to remember much more than Marche was the main char and Cid looked like he smoked a few too many joints

    if i ended up in Ivalice my life's goal would be to bang as many Viera as possible. if i made it past 1 i would die the happiest man ever, if we add in the races for FFTA2 then my goals would have to include the Gria
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:59 No.14613992

    It's still fucking tiny compared to the vast swelling hordes of people who, every year, are NOT murdered.

    Truth is, the vast majority of people, even when given the means to, do not actually feel any need to kill people. Those who will kill will find the means to kill.

    And, truth be told, our murder rate is huge because our crime rate is huge, and our crime rate is huge because of a series of staggeringly stupid decisions we've made about SOCIAL issues that have nothing to do with firearms ownership.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:59 No.14613994
    >The Stealthiest Lawful Evil Protagonist in the history of Lawful Evil protagonists.

    He's certainly stealthy enough to start up a shitstorm on /tg/, though I dunno if that's saying much.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)14:59 No.14613996
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    man, i'd gladly trade my life to live in balamb garden.
    sigh*...final fantasy VIII
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:01 No.14614008
    You realize Balamb Garden was just an overdecorated west point where instead of tactics, they taught you how to call the God of Lightning down on people's heads.

    We can do that now, but with a cruise missile.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:01 No.14614016
    >This is /tg/ so despite any logical debates made, chances are the thread is going to be strongly in favor of escapism.

    Wouldn't it only be escapism if its MY fantasy? My fantasy does not involve fucktarded judges or moogles.
    >> Pink PRojectionist 04/16/11(Sat)15:02 No.14614025
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    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:03 No.14614026
    Here's the thing. The Ivalice of TA and TA2 are not the same.

    FFTA2 is in the gameworld of FFT, FF12, FF12RW and VS that is a real world in the context of the games.

    FFTA is a dreamworld created in response to the gameworld of FFT (and gang) that replaces that games realworld.

    If you land in Ivalice and you end up in Mewt's Ivaclie, no Gria for you.

    If you end up in the other Ivalice before the War of the Lions, then yes. You get to bang Gria.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:03 No.14614032
    I wonder if it would've been any different had the main characters actually transformed into different races as well (Marche and his little brother-> Moogles (and perhaps the little brother would have the 'rare' trait of being able to fly), Ritz -> Viera, Mewt -> Nu Mou), instead of merely gaining companions.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:06 No.14614055
    Yeah, but, come on. It's not nearly as awesome and getting an actual GOD to do your bidding. Not to mention all the shit you need to go through to actually launch a cruise missile.
    >> ­ 04/16/11(Sat)15:06 No.14614056
    The Imperial March played in the backroung while I read this.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:06 No.14614062
    You're treading on dangerous, fetish-y ground there.

    If Mewt gets to be a Nu Mou, how many here will want to be the Little Viera Girl?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:08 No.14614072
    It was a wise man who said "If god did not exist, man would need to create him."

    Yeah, well Quetzelcoatl, the great Feathered Serpent of the Storm, does not exist.

    >> /d/eviant !P.d6z00F9Y 04/16/11(Sat)15:09 No.14614077
    Never played the second one. What's a Gria?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:09 No.14614085
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    >He still thinks the economy isn't recovering
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:10 No.14614089
    To add to this gentleman, if end up in Ivalice AFTER the War of the Lions or during... fuck me jesus someone get me the fuck out of here!

    It's basically a Grimdarkier version of Middle Ages CARICATURES!

    Fucking amazing to experience from the point of view of a gamer but UNGH I would squat in some basement for my entire short life.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:10 No.14614097
    >see Marche thread
    >have to leave
    >keep thread open for when I come back
    >come back
    >225 replies just as expected

    Marche threads are the best threads.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:10 No.14614100
         File1302981056.jpg-(31 KB, 500x375, hell watermelon.jpg)
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    >hay guys whats going on in this pic
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:11 No.14614101
    >> /d/eviant !P.d6z00F9Y 04/16/11(Sat)15:11 No.14614107
    I'd be in the Death Corps. for my all-too-short and still miserable existence.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:11 No.14614108
    Doesn't matter much if it's officially considered to be recovering over all to someone who still can't get a job.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:12 No.14614115
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:13 No.14614122
    A kind of cabbage. Don't ask.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:13 No.14614127
    I, for one, can accept this fate.

    >entransp The
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:13 No.14614128
    >Screw you, I don't got mine yet so I mad.

    You are the kind of person who fucked our economy over in the first place.

    Oh, YOU don't have a job, so therefore the country must be in a bad place?

    Ever consider that just maybe, what you do isn't particularly necessary or worthwhile?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:13 No.14614129

    I'd maybe try to join Ramza cause i'd probably be the safest in his company. After he recruits Cid i'd be like "Fuck that shit, Imma hang in the back and chill".

    Think of it as being one of those playable characters in your team roster that you never really use. They're safe, just chillin'
    >> /d/eviant !P.d6z00F9Y 04/16/11(Sat)15:13 No.14614130
    I have to ask. Wut?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:13 No.14614132
    >Marche was an ignorant, selfish child given far too much power.

    I hope this is either rad trolling or you mixed up marche and mewt.

    Mewt was a fucking dictator with the mindset of a 8 year old boy who made nothing but emotional decisions and forced his daddy (the grandmaster judge) to enforce irrational laws in order to keep his regime up. His dad, while disagreeing, did comply because he didnt want to hurt his little son.

    Mewt also cried to his mommy (which was actually a evil demon) that he doesnt like responsibility and "getting hurt". Keep in mind that this is coming from the supreme ruler of this world.

    Marche did the right thing, if you dont agree you are autismal as fuck.

    "I dont like my natural haircolor", "I have a sickness and now everyone should suffer except me" and "Im too lazy to work out" arent proper arguments.

    "this world is an illusion summoned by a crazy ritual out of a magic book" however is an argument.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:13 No.14614134
         File1302981239.jpg-(35 KB, 336x412, Ffta-remedi.jpg)
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    I think if nothing else we can all agree that Queen Remedi was totally hot.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:15 No.14614149

    You mean I get to live for hundreds of years longer than I would, I am beautiful and exotic to the degree that I'll never have to pay for anything, and I'm capable of kicking a man's head off?

    Not seeing a downside.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:16 No.14614156

    >"Im too lazy to work out"

    Pretty sure no amount of exercise is giving him back the use of his legs.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:18 No.14614178
    Mewt could have decided he wanted every Moogle in the world gassed and shoved into a blast furnace and he'd still be less evil than Marche.

    No crime could possibly equal the murder of an entire world. What would you even call that? Omnicide? Mundacide?

    I don't care what your reasoning is, the answer is NEVER "Destroy the fucking world and fuck all y'all niggas."
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:19 No.14614188

    I would rather be superior Gria race, draconian blood, wings, an Ultima and another great attack (Sneak Attack) sign me up. Viera are overrated bunny sluts!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:20 No.14614195
    But they did...sorta.

    Ritz had the Viera jobset and from what I gathered, Doned was a Juggler...or something not playable, but inferred. Mewt wasn't playable, but his Nou-Mou manservant was.

    What sorta got me is why Montblanc and the other dream people were totally cool with Marche. Yes, you going home is more important than our own continued existence. Because our collective well being is worth less than the minor inconvenience of you not having your shitty real lives back.

    Ask yourself; why is a shitty reality preferable to a dream? I would argue that reality is just as invalid as a dreamworld, and if you can improve your conditions in a dream world, then why wouldn't you? Delusions are built into us. We delude ourselves of happiness in real life anyway, so why is a dream world taboo? Especially when ending it means the death of all those new friends you made?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:20 No.14614196
    >"I have a sickness and now everyone should suffer except me"
    Marche's brother

    >"Im too lazy to work out"
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:21 No.14614201
    Oh yeah, Bat Bitch? Well... DOUBLECAST SUMMONING.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:21 No.14614205

    Those are fighting words son. As bunny sluts go, I think their high rating is well deserved.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:21 No.14614206
    Actually Mewt was already that bad, seeing as he enacted the ritual that changed the world in the first place. Marche was just attempting to repeat the horrible tragedy that had already occured for reasons already discussed in this thread.
    >> I apologised on 4chan !!857o4GkKJgy 04/16/11(Sat)15:23 No.14614219
    Sounds like what happened in Links Awakening.

    Except I don't think Link was fully aware of what he was doing until he was already largely committed. Plus there's the issue that his knowledge and experiences had already infected the windfishes dream (thus: Moblins, NotZelda, various other enemies and the Shadows of his major villains) and it was probably going to collapse or turn into a proper nightmare sooner rather than later anyway.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:23 No.14614222
    40% unemployment races in many cities nationwide.
    Gas over $4/gallon in the cheapest places.

    Yeah, no. you are wrong.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:24 No.14614225
    ITT let's ignore the very obvious fact that Marche's "REALITY"
    contains artefacts that let middle-schoolers warp the laws of physics towards their own ends, and upon the greatest discovery in western civilization, his immediate response is to destroy the world

    I'm glad I don't live in Ivalice
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:24 No.14614228

    Dragons eat bunnies, oh you want to Double Cast on me? Too bad you're slow as fuck, before you can even select the second spell you are already dead! Ravager just ravaged you from behind!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:24 No.14614231
    sort of Draconian half breeds that are still hot but in a different way than Viera.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:25 No.14614241
    >I would argue that reality is just as invalid as a dreamworld
    If the world can be destroyed by one child with a pizza cutter it's not very valid.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:26 No.14614246




    >> Crix !!nLvSV/0cRma 04/16/11(Sat)15:26 No.14614250
         File1302981995.png-(332 KB, 700x700, udonge.png)
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    >Viera are overrated bunny sluts!

    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:27 No.14614257
    Link however had no reason to believe that what he was doing would lead to the end of the world he was in since the only things telling him what would happen until near the end were monsters.

    Marche knew what his actions would cause, knew the path he had to take and what it would cause for everyone and still stuck at it
    >> Weasel 04/16/11(Sat)15:28 No.14614271
         File1302982120.png-(955 KB, 550x1368, heardyoulikedreams.png)
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    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:28 No.14614273
    >40% unemployment

    Bitch, fucking Nigeria doesn't have 40% unemployment.

    Unless by "Cities" you mean "Detroit." in which case, fuck you and fuck your smog-encrusted shitcity.

    Oh, and the government has "Shut down" like ten times in the last thirty years. Quit throwing a bitch fit.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:30 No.14614278

    Bring it bunny bitch, me and my Gria gals will be occupying the high ground outside of your casting range. Whats that they can't fly?

    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:30 No.14614283
    >thread about a vidya gaem in /tg/
    >/tg/ turns it into a huge morality debate about escapism vs. fascism
    >/tg/ - Morality and Philosophy

    Never change you guys. Never fucking change.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:30 No.14614284
    You know what we should do? Kill everyone. That will solve all our problems!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:31 No.14614288
    See >>14613649.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:32 No.14614299
    I don't have a job, my mom doesn't have a job, my dad doesn't have a job, my brother doesn't have a job, and most of my friends don't have jobs. All those people except my brother had jobs before the economy collapsed.
    Just because it's not effecting you doesn't mean everything's peachy keen.
    >You are the kind of person who fucked our economy over in the first place.
    What fucked the country over was bad lending policies. Unemployed people complaining about the state of the economy is not the cause of the state of the economy.
    >> Crix !!nLvSV/0cRma 04/16/11(Sat)15:32 No.14614300
         File1302982346.jpg-(172 KB, 480x640, these eyes of mine glow with a(...).jpg)
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    >implying viera casters were worth using over sniper/assasins
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:32 No.14614301
    ITT people who never played the game

    It was all stated clearly there. No one died. The world was a dream and illusion. Marche was objectively right. Haters gonna hate.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:33 No.14614304
         File1302982405.jpg-(39 KB, 946x288, TG.jpg)
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    Never change /tg/
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:33 No.14614309
    What problems? The country as it is now is just fine. It's a damn sight better than most other places in the world.

    People just need to get over their spoiled-rotten sense of fucking entitlement and learn to accept that if you want to live in a nice place, you have to pay for it. Americans got too used to having their cake and eating it too, and it bit us in the ass.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:33 No.14614310
    this is obviously not the response of a romantic
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:34 No.14614312
    [citation needed]
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:34 No.14614313
    If the world can be destroyed by one child with a book it's not very valid.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:34 No.14614315






    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:36 No.14614324
    Viera are ridiculously OP in both games. In the first game, they have assassins, who have hands-down the best stat growth of any class, along with the infamous concentration + instakill. They also have doublecasting summoners, who can cast the most powerful and versatile magic in the game twice.

    While they nerfed assassins in the second, they made summoners even worse. Because of the MP changes, blood price makes viera the only race that can spam spells.

    They also have the highest speed stat, meaning that you can wipe the entire enemy team before they can even act.

    They are so OP that they actually make Nu Mou pointless.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:36 No.14614325
    >Implying that isn't the way every Marche thread ever goes
    It's either this or Viera porn
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:36 No.14614326



    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:36 No.14614332
    It doesn't matter if they were illusions. They were still people. And he killed them.

    You're the type of person who would delete an AI who asked for freedom and justify it with the words "Who cares? It's not like it was a real person."

    People like you will cause the robot revolution. Thanks. Dick.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:37 No.14614336
    Play the goddamn game ragefag. The other characters who could remember the real world also sensed it was an illusion. They simply liked it better.

    Marshe liked it better. But he knew they couldn't just run away, and had the emotional fortitude to do something about it.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:37 No.14614341
    See >>14614301.

    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:38 No.14614343

    No Mou were always pointless, they have no advantages over Viera or Humes in FFTA2.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:38 No.14614344
    the working out part was referencing marche.

    Marche was a weakling in St Ivalice. In Ivalice he was an adonis like powerhouse of a man.

    He was however the only one with a strong enough mind to look past all that and see the world for what it was: fake and ultimately dangerous.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:39 No.14614352
    Everything you know about FFTA comes from /tg/ doesn't it?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:39 No.14614355
    hey, how many of you actuapply played and beat the game?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:40 No.14614361
    They could "Sense" it?

    What the fuck kind of basis is that for judging reality?

    Plenty of people "Sense" the world isn't real. We have a word for them. "Delusional."
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:41 No.14614373
    i don't even know what game we're talking about.
    i saw balamb garden and got excited
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:41 No.14614380
    What sensing it is isn't explains. But Ritz and Marshe's brother both say they know the world is fake, but its so much better than the real world.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:41 No.14614381
    I did. Several times over, although I admit the last time was a couple years ago.

    And I'm pro-reality.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:42 No.14614386
    Exactly, anyone can rebel against obviously bad things, but it speaks a lot to his character that he's willing to damn himself to a shitty fate in the real world, and maybe even damn himself to his friends by pulling them out of a world of illusion. Everyone is so quick to make him into goddamn Hitler but he was fully aware aware he was going against what his friends wanted, what they wanted however isn't always the best thing for them. You aren't going to let your fucking alcoholic friend keep drinking because he's 'happier' that way if you really care, even if helping him may mean he spits on your friendship.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:43 No.14614392
    I did. Years and years ago, though, so I don't remember it much. Though I have to say, those of you saying how there's proof of it being an illusion; even if that is true, the game was made by people who wanted to get the message across that escapism is bad. So yes, the argument will be biased in your direction.

    Can we have a what-if discussion on whether it was right or wrong if Ivalice WAS just as real and had as much justification to exist as St. Ivalice?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:43 No.14614393
    Go ahead and look at OP'S pic for me. Specifically, look at his leg.

    You look at that fucking leg and you fucking tell me he had an adonis body?
    Go fuck yourself.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:43 No.14614394
    FFVIII was a shitty game that wasted a great concept.

    It could have been all about the glories and horrors of war as seen through the eyes of a god-channeling supersoldier.

    Instead it was the love story of an emo fucktard and his fat-faced girlfriend who's eyes are way too small.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:43 No.14614396
    i am lukewarm over reality.

    what is reality anyways?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:43 No.14614399

    >Play the goddamn game ragefag. The other characters who could remember the real world also sensed it was an illusion. They simply liked it better.






    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:43 No.14614401
    In the span of this thread I took out my copy and re-defeated the end boss and poked around the post game.

    The world is an illusion, and fake. There is no question.
    >> /d/eviant !P.d6z00F9Y 04/16/11(Sat)15:44 No.14614404
    I did.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:45 No.14614415
    >What they want isn't the best thing for them.

    That was not his to judge. It isn't anyone's.

    I don't care what Marche thought he was doing. It wasn't his decision.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:45 No.14614417
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    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:45 No.14614418
    >i love drinking diarrhea and guns or whatever

    >> Crix !!nLvSV/0cRma 04/16/11(Sat)15:45 No.14614420
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    I have

    At least 200 hours into it too.

    Also I found the Viera tag on pixiv!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:46 No.14614425


    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:46 No.14614427

    The best evidence for a dream come after you try to wake up.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:46 No.14614432
    >What the fuck kind of basis is that for judging reality?
    You are playing a fucking final fantasy game.
    What you heart tells you is the ultimate fucking truth.

    Just like the power of friendship is the ultimate fucking power.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:46 No.14614435
    You're not gonna change any opinions whining like that. You being completely wrong doesn't help anything either.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:48 No.14614446
    i thought the power of love was the ultimate power...

    it changes too often!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:48 No.14614448
    >You look at that fucking leg and you fucking tell me he had an adonis body?
    Fucking Japan. How does it work?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:49 No.14614457
    Make Marche a Ninja Paladin.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:50 No.14614461
    The "real world" is a ilusion created by "god" to hide and limit the awesome power we all have in Ivalice.
    I can sense it.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:51 No.14614463
    Did all those innocent Viera, and Nu Mou, and Moogles, and Bangaa not have hearts? Did their hearts not tell them that the world was real?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:51 No.14614467

    umm its is actually if those 3 people are exactly the same people who summoned the new world by a magic ritual out of some weird ass magic book.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:51 No.14614469
    we're getting very close to Gnosticism territory here
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:52 No.14614477
    So you would be ok with your familiy and friends deciding to enter permanent sleep because they liked the dreams better than reality?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:53 No.14614490
    Of course. That's their choice. Can I join them?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:54 No.14614492
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    whose to say you weren't the one dreaming
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:55 No.14614514
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    >mfw I would have supported Marshe as well.

    Rather than escaping your issues you should learn to deal with them. Creating your own imaginary world to divulge yourself in is just reactionary bullshit that hurts you as much as it hurts everyone around you not prepared to put up with your bullshit.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:56 No.14614523
    YES! god, I hate my family, I hope they rot there. I'd also join them, thought hopefully on a different dream "server" if you will.

    Also, all adults going to sleep and never waking up? sounds like Bliss Stage!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:57 No.14614528
    Look, fucknugget, these aren't issues you can just "Work Out."

    You are saying to every crippled person in the world that they can't walk because they have yet to man up and put forth the effort. You are saying that people can help the way they are made, and you are fucking wrong.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:58 No.14614541
    just because they like it more doesn't mean it is the best solution, running away from your problems doesn't make them go away, it makes you goddamn pussy.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)15:58 No.14614545
    Actually, the scary thing is that Marche tried to blow the world up before he found out it was a dream.

    While he was right in the end, he was operating off of a pure guess when he started. That guy is fucking insane and he needs to be locked up for the safety of others.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:00 No.14614557

    Not liking the color of your hair isn't an issue you can work out? Being anti-social is an issue you can't work out?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:00 No.14614564
    so because they're being cowards you have the right to force them to adhere to your opinions?

    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:01 No.14614568

    Tactics Advance is actually Xenogears in disguise.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:01 No.14614570
    I'm sorry? Who cares?

    It's not my decision or anyone else's, but theirs. You can't make people face their problems, and it isn't up to you to decide that they should.

    "If people won't choose to face their problems, I'll just make them do it." is the mindset of a fascist.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:01 No.14614576
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    No sorry, I don't believe in your point of view. I believe people are fundamentally capable of change. Even though Ivalice might have seemed like bliss to Mewt and the others it was just an illusions. Their problems were just pushed beneath the surface.

    You can't escape your problem. Trying to do so leads nowhere, and in worst case you might even regress. Sugarcoated fantasy remains just that. Sugarcoated fantasy.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:03 No.14614594

    So because they have a "right" to choose what's best for them they're allowed to ruin the lives of an entire town's worth of people who are most likely freaking out over being forcefully thrust into a fantasy realm not of their choosing?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:03 No.14614599
    yeah well and you are saying that crippled people should just kill themselves because the real world has nothing to offer them.

    autismal as fuck
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:03 No.14614604
    I'm so fucking glad I'll probably never know you or risk having you for a friend.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:04 No.14614606

    Doesn't matter. A few misfits dragged the whole of civilization into their own idealized fantasy rather than deal with their problems.

    Is that somehow less fascist than Marshe putting back things into order?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:04 No.14614614
    >I believe people are fundamentally capable of change.

    Good for you, I don't. So long as you keep your ideas as ideas and don't try and drag the rest of us kicking and screaming along with you, more power to you, but if you try and do that, I'll have no choice to defend my freedom.

    Freedom means giving people the option to be wrong. If you don't agree with that, then be ready for a fight.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:06 No.14614629
    >It's not my decision or anyone else's, but theirs. You can't make people face their problems, and it isn't up to you to decide that they should.

    If they trap you in their self destructive circle you have the right to free yourself.

    Also if your brother is engaging in self destructive behaviour its your obligation to slap the stupid out of him before its too late. At least I would do it for my brother and I would expect the same from him.
    >> 01011001 !!q8KxB04TJME 04/16/11(Sat)16:07 No.14614640
    >marche thread
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:08 No.14614646
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    Haha, no I'd drag you with me. I'm just that kind of person. I don't give a fuck about your feelings, I'm gonna save the shit out of you, just like Marshe did to his friend.

    Because you know what? Freedom without responsibility is a pretty shitty freedom.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:08 No.14614647
    Actually I'm arguing that they should do everything in their power to rehabilitate themselves. Take every shortcut, use every tactic science and medicine have made available, anything to not be crippled anymore.

    I don't think people should face up to their problems, I think they should just NOT have problems anymore.

    If you can take them to a fantasy world where those problems don't exist, then the problems are gone.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:08 No.14614649
    'regular' reality isn't of your choosing. what's the difference?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:09 No.14614660
    If you kill them the problems are gone too.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:09 No.14614661
    Then I'd fight tooth and nail to keep you from getting your way.

    If it came down to it, I'd kill myself just to prevent you from "Saving" me.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:09 No.14614662
    You being too pussy to face your problems ensures people will just step on you to get what they want. If you aren't strong enough to defend your opinion or earn your spoils you were just a doormat between people willing to fight for what they believe in.

    And yes I agree, you cannot make people face their problems, you cannot make people change. But standing idly by and letting people you care about do bad things because it's not your decision is bad too. Sometimes you have to slap your friend for being a dumbass.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:10 No.14614663
    No, it's not. But they didn't do it intentionally, not the first time. What Marche did was intentional.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:10 No.14614670
    Throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:10 No.14614677
    and thats why you are a whiny faggot like Mewt and not a hero like Marche (who was triumphant in the end, due to strength of character)
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:11 No.14614686

    It's reality as they have come to know it. By forcing them away from it Mewt and company are essentially doing the exact same thing which you think makes Marche a fascist and a villain.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:13 No.14614701
    I have the conviction to fight for what I believe in against the Marche's of the world. I have the strength to die for what I believe in.

    You want people to "Face their problems"?

    Face your own. My problems are not yours to solve.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:17 No.14614734
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    The line between acting to save a person and tyrannic oppression is fine indeed. I will walk that line and save everyone who needs a bit of saving.

    It's in your freedom to try to stop me, and to take your own life if you fail. Don't expect me to let you get off the hook easily though, there are few things I dislike as much as irresponsible and reactionary things.

    Scream all you want, you'll get your shit saved the fuck out of you.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:18 No.14614745
    this is just one big solipsism thread

    and we all know solipsism is irrefutable
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:18 No.14614748
    How can you not see that you are wrong?

    It's so OBVIOUS!

    You are doing what Islamic Fundamentalists do for god's sake!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:20 No.14614769
    >I have the strength to die for what I believe in.

    Yes and people like Marche have the strength to WIN for what they believe in

    If you want to be selfish as fuck then you have to deal with it when other people act selfish to you and kick your ass and take what they want.

    deal with it.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:21 No.14614782

    I have the decency to leave others alone in my selfishness. I respect the autonomy of others enough that even when they are wrong, I feel no need to correct them unless they ask for it, or my hand is forced.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:21 No.14614783
    the only thing that makes the old realty better is that they're more comfortable with it? the new one has monsters and bunny girls!
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:22 No.14614794
    and you are doing what crack addicts are doing
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:23 No.14614810
    If you are strong enough to face the problems you'd never NEED to face against someone like Marche because you'd be solving your own fucking shit, because it's your fucking problem to fix. But if your running away is taking everyone with you, THEN it becomes a problem others will feel the need to make you deal with.
    Mewt, Ritz and Donad we're running from their problems, and Mewt's running was dragging EVERYONE with him. Whether the other people in Ivalice like Montblanc were real or not, or how much of the world was real or fake Mewt was still dragging that world to his whims.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:23 No.14614814
    >I have the decency to leave others alone in my selfishness

    Marche was forced into fake Ivalice.
    Your logic is wrong.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:24 No.14614832
    Were I an addict I'd ask that you kindly leave me the fuck alone.

    I believe in freedom. I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you this, but freedom implies the ability to make bad decisions and live with them.

    When I ASK you to help me, help me. Until then, you can fuck right off.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:26 No.14614839

    Which reality is "better" is a pretty subjective thing. On one hand there's bunny girls, on the other there's safety in the knowledge that in the real world zombies and giant demons won't pop up while you're traveling and horribly murder you.

    Regardless, nobody in the town was given a choice in the matter one way or the other. Mewt simply decided that running away from his issues was more important than considering how others would feel about being abducted from their homes and lives.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:26 No.14614841
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    I think the term is "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing."

    Now, I'm not saying I'm gonna swing my sword at evil. I do though recognize the necessity of action to prevent negative occurences. Call me evil, tyrannic or narrowminded if you wish, I frankly don't care. People needs guys like me. Men who are prepared to stick to their guns and say "Nope, that shit ain't gonna happen while I'm on guard".

    Do you honestly think things will turn out for the best if nobody is prepared to do something for the better? In that case you'll probably be taken advantage off sometimes in the future. Just a friendly warning from your neighborhood watchdog.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:26 No.14614844
    >Were I an addict I'd ask that you kindly leave me the fuck alone.

    Yeah and if you second hand crack smoke affected me and my little brother I would slap the crackpipe out of your face.

    Deal with it
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:26 No.14614849

    So he should have LEFT. Not destroyed it.

    If you were falsely imprisoned, would your first reaction be to

    A: Escape

    B: Have yourself freed legally


    C: Blow the place up with everyone inside it?
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:28 No.14614863
    In the "false" reality, the characters are ENABLED and can do more. Their escapism isn't even harming them, it's actually benefitting them more than their original reality, with "real" results (tied into the "false" reality).

    The real reality was replaced by the false one, and the false one was BETTER than the real one. And Marche said "FUCK NO, IF YOU AREN'T SUFFERING AND I'M NOT AN ALPHA AS FUCK BLUE-EYED BLONDE-HAIRED ARYAN THAT I AM THEN THIS WORLD IS SHIT" and proceeded to kill hope and stomp on dreams.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:28 No.14614864
    You've got it exactly wrong.

    Swing your sword at evil when, and only when, it attacks you or others. Acting to "Prevent" evil is fascism. Because the only way to prevent evil is to remove choice.

    I will take choice over security any day.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:30 No.14614887

    Explain how he could have left.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:30 No.14614889
    evil mewts mom was trapping everyone in fake ivalice. There is no way to leave.
    Have you even played the game?

    Also since everyone you know has been turned into a zombie, monster, lizard etc and your only friends are busy smoking crack and ruining their lives I would definetly choose C and save my friends + hometown.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:31 No.14614891
    People who care about you would try to help even if it means stepping in your shitty freedom hole you willingly chose, because they cared more about your well being than your freedom to do what you want.
    But likewise it is fully your right to tell everyone to fuck off because you're happier destroying yourself to escape problems. In the end though you'd either find the resolve to change yourself and not need to escape, or you'd stay in your self imposed happy escape, and everyone who cared about you would leave and you would die off. Either way we win, you either become stronger, or die off and stop wasting space.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:31 No.14614897

    This thread has inspired me to create a new PC.

    He will be the chaotic good warrior of light and freedom who spends his days killing everyone who goes around doing anything to anyone "For their own good."
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:32 No.14614902
    >Because the only way to prevent evil is to remove choice.

    You mean that what Mewt did?

    You are currently destroying your own position.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:33 No.14614909
    that's certainly noble or whatever but would you not prevent evil if it was, say...., about to rape a bunch of children? i would prevent it because i'm not an asshole
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:33 No.14614915
    It doesn't actually matter that there was no way to get out. Marche could not have known that.

    The point is that he didn't even try. His FIRST reaction was to grab his brother and destroy the world, even when there was nothing indicating that was the only way out. Whatever his motivations, Marche is a sociopath.

    My loved ones respect my choices enough to not meddle in them, because I am a goddamn adult and not their responsibility anymore.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:34 No.14614917
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    Why do you think we invented laws? Because of people like me. Why do you think there are policemen? Because of other people like me exists out there. Why do you think we got politicians lobbying for welfare, the rights of the people and better working conditions? Because of people like me.

    What you decide is right or wrong is entirely up to you. But I'm the one of the people prepared to guide society towards betterment, because I see the responsibility hidden beneath the freedom.

    Don't like that? Well, I already said you're welcome to step up to the challenge of stopping me. That IS the basis of democracy after all.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:34 No.14614921

    Most people who complain about Marche have never actually played the game and base everything on bitching they've read online.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:35 No.14614926
    That was the entire point of escapism arguements dumbass. It WAS a better world hence you'd be stupid to want to leave, dreams are ALWAYS better than reality because they are fucking dreams. Also Marche alpha as fuck in the real world what shit are you smoking, he was a fucking loser in the school like the rest of them, he got constant flack for having a cripple brother.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:36 No.14614932
    I don't have to defend Mewt to attack Marche.

    As far as I'm concerned, they're both a pair of obnoxious little pricks. But at least Mewt didn't kill a world to exercise his own morality.

    The moralistic make me sick, that's all.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:37 No.14614942
    I would act to prevent the rape of children, but I would never act to prevent people from wanting to fuck children, no matter how disgusting I find the idea, because it isn't my responsibility.

    Now, if someone asked for help, that's different. But until they ask, it would be wrong to help them.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:38 No.14614944

    The fact that there's a sequel shows that the world wasn't destroyed.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:38 No.14614950
    you're obviously a moralists. you judge marche for what he did while forgiving mewt. morals. you are a moralist

    >lol, so EDGY
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:38 No.14614951
    And my entire point was if you are an adult solving your own shit nobody needs to meddle in your shit because you are taking care of it yourself, like a fucking adult.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:40 No.14614964
    >The point is that he didn't even try. His FIRST reaction was to grab his brother and destroy the world, even when there was nothing indicating that was the only way out. Whatever his motivations, Marche is a sociopath.

    Not exactly he was more like
    >Marche:well this world is certainly cool but its time to go home now, we have responsibilities and a family that is waiting for us.
    >what the fuck do you mean I can never go home again?
    >Hey Doned, fuck this shit lets go home
    >Doned: fuck your shit imma backstab you now because I choose the fake world over my own brother who always protected and cared for me in the real and in the fake world

    After that Marche went out and stabbed the evil demon
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:40 No.14614967
    It is a mark of the intellectually unsophisticated to mistake ethics for morals.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:41 No.14614972
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    >Massacre a world

    Hold your horses there partner. Marsha did no such thing. Ivalice was the real world transformed into some imaginary furry fantasy world governed by some social misfit who rather create his own private getaway rather than manning the fuck up and start dealing with his problems.

    Marshe returned the world to its original state, which might have felt a bit sucky to some (I guess the zombie bullies appreciated it though). I suppose X amount of mindless beasties perished though.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:41 No.14614975
    Except you define "Adult" as "Someone who is solving their problems like I want them to."

    WoW addicted manchildren are still adults. It is up to them to face their own problems, OR NOT.

    That's their decision. Not yours.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:42 No.14614983
    and it's the mark of the pretentious to hide their hypocrisy behind petty distinctions
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:44 No.14614995
    Unfortunately for your argument, the distinction between "Morals" and "Ethics" is very fucking important.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:47 No.14615022
    please, enlighten me then
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:49 No.14615042

    Ethics and Morals can often be used interchangeably. But nice try, you almost avoided his initial argument; aka calling you out for hypocrisy.

    So, what was your answer to that again? You've forgiven Mewt but are accusing Marshe for fascism, even though their actions share quite a few similarities.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:51 No.14615060
    Of what? The difference between morals and ethics? Buddy, if you need information that fucking basic, I can't really help you. Suffice it to say that morality basically requires a god to exist, otherwise it's based on nothing, and ethics do not, since they say nothing about any higher cause or standard, and only exist so that society can continue to exist.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:53 No.14615065


    What you just said is pure speculation about Marhse's motives on your part.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:53 No.14615068
    Your fucking stupid and are talking about motivations of characters you dont know shit about, apparently not even their names.

    Mewt is not Marches brother.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:54 No.14615081
    Morality doesn't need god to exist. Ethics is applied morality (ie: Do you reattatch an arm of a guy who came to the hospital, but he says he'll cut his arm off again if you do?).
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:54 No.14615084
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    >Suffice it to say that morality basically requires a god to exist, otherwise it's based on nothing

    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:55 No.14615088

    Moral (source;dictionary.com):
    of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
    expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
    founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.
    capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being.
    conforming to the rules of right conduct ( opposed to immoral): a moral man.
    virtuous in sexual matters; chaste.
    of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support.
    resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty.

    Looks like your the one who don't quite understand what "moral" and "ethics" mean.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)16:56 No.14615090
    Wowaddicted manchildren who pay their bills to support their worthless mmo epeen are adults, shitty adults but still adults who have every right to choose that shithole life. Wow addicted manchildren who freeload on other peoples money to support their mmo epeen are dragging other people with them, and i say this AS formerly one of those fucking losers. I don't give a shit how you solve your fucking problems, if you are solving your problems because they are YOUR problems what is my place to care what you do.
    If Mewt just dragged himself into the fucking fake ivalice this would be a non issue, it sucks and he's escaping his problems but he's hurting only himself, and eventually his friends would either help him overcome the problems or they'd all be pushed away and he'd be happy in his delusion until he died. He dragged the entire town in WITH him though, and at that point it becomes other peoples problems too, and that means exactly what marche did, that he will have to deal with it whether he likes it or not, because other people we're being hurt by it.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)17:00 No.14615121
    hei gais...

    Morals don't need god.
    Ethics are applied morals.
    An example of an ethical dilema: A guy comes into your hospital. He cut off his arm. He says he'll cut off his arm if you stitch it back on. What do?

    Moral: Yes. I must help him.
    Ethic: If I do help him, I can't put his arm back on, otherwise he'll hurt himself more.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)17:07 No.14615177
    From whence comes morality if not a god? Why is your morality more legitimate than mine without a god to back it up?

    Ethics hold true no matter who you are.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)17:15 No.14615260
    Replace "god" with "culture".

    Morals depend on the individual and aren't well defined. Religion tries to paint itself as "true" morals.

    Ethics are applied morals and try their best to get as close to the moral without breaking something else.

    Something that is moral isn't always ethical. Something that is ethical, is always based on some moral argument.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)17:30 No.14615372
    Ivalice was never real. Marche was the good guy because all of FFTA was a big game of make-believe. If they'd all actually gone into a parallel dimension and he destroyed it... yeah, he'd have been a genocidal douche. No question. If anyone says otherwise they're either trolling or stupid.

    But they didn't really go into a parallel dimension. It was like Calvin and Hobbes or Bridge to Terabithia. Wild imaginations and kids' games. Marche wasn't evil because the Ivalice they "went" to didn't ever actually exist.

    They never went to another world where their problems were gone. They played games with each other in which they imagined their problems were gone.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)18:08 No.14615669
    > I don't care what Marche thought he was doing. It wasn't his decision.'

    And I don't care what anyone else thought about it. Marshe acted on his intentions and succeeded.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)18:13 No.14615712
    People are only dealt one hand, and we either play it or fold.

    I was talking to my grandfather a couple months ago. He's spent the rest of his life after the Vietnam War sitting in a wheelchair. If he had the opportunity to go back and go AWOL instead, he would not take that chance. Hardship made him the person he is today. Learning how to deal with that chair and everything it gave him or took away - it defines him today.

    Newt is running. He does not want to take responsibility.

    I cannot agree with that boy.
    >> Anonymous 04/16/11(Sat)21:25 No.14617263
    Stitch the arm back on and cut off his other.

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