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  • File : 1302716849.jpg-(699 KB, 1800x1500, KnightvsSamurai.jpg)
    699 KB Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:47 No.14581275  
    On our humble imageboard, there has lately been a spike in the Samurai vs Knight threads. This is partially due to the release of the 2nd Shogun total war, and partially due to faggotry. I have made it my mission to sit down, do heavy research, and to end this once and for all. You might ask what my qualifications are, and so I will respond with the truth. I am a student, not just of life, but of literal school. I have a keen interest in history, and while I admittedly hold some love for Japan, I think one could hardly call me weeaboo due to the fact that I can admit what parts of the culture are shit and that the Japanese are as a whole, fucked in the head.
    I also hold a love for medieval to Renaissance Europe, so my greatest weapon in this, is that I am about as unbiased as one can get, because I hold love for both areas. Now let's get into the heart of the matter before we go off topic. There is a reason why these threads never prove a damn thing; there are never any specifics. The encounter needs to have a foundation to be built on, so here is what I am using.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:48 No.14581279
    The knight will have full plate. His side arm will be a longsword, he will wield a shield, and he will have a lance as his primary weapon. The knight will be mounted on an armored warhorse. The knight and warhorse will be armored as well as wealth can allow. This means that he will have padding, chain-mail, and all that good shit under his plate. He is not a poor man and can afford to armor himself properly.
    The samurai will have wooden samurai armor. Now while the Japanese DID in fact have metal cuirasses in later part of the their history, but we will assume that this guy has only the O-Yoroi (that's the wood, leather, and padding) because in Japan, you would have been one important motherfucker to be wearing metal all over your body. The samurai will be equipped with a katana side arm, a wakizashi (little baby katana, more like a knife), and a tall, bamboo, Yumi bow as his primary weapon. The horse will be armored just like the samurai, and now we have our specifics.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:49 No.14581290
    >is that I am about as unbiased as one can get, because I hold love for both areas
    That's not how bias works.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:49 No.14581291
    Let's create a scenario, now. The gaijin knight is visiting Japan with a few of his noble friends. They're in a small coastal village, recounting the times they've driven horses into the backs of peasant lines, when the knight bumps into the samurai. The samurai stares him down, expecting him to beg forgiveness, but he doesn't. So the samurai moves to cut him down, but the knight's friends suggest that instead of having this happen here, they both fight an honorable duel toward the nearby hill side.
    Both of them having much honor at stake, with the whole village watching, agree. So now we have preparation. Well the Samurai is a practitioner of bushido, but luckily for him, bushido is for when important people are watching, and doesn't even apply to the rude gaijin in a tin can. So the samurai drafts an army of conscripts, hands them pointy sticks and armored rice hats, and then uses his extreme wealth to buy like six hundred war dogs. He gives each war dog a badass little wooden mask, and names them all “Kira-Seiko-So-Ru-Shittah”, or “Kill-Fuck-Soul-Shitter”. The samurai then rides off, gets all his samurai friends, and tells them that they have a guy to kill FOR GREAT HONOR.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:49 No.14581298
    Is the knight French?
    >> Ragnasal 04/13/11(Wed)13:50 No.14581304
    ... Stop comparing them due to real life. Do what all of /tg/ does, and compare class stats from 4e and 3.5e.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:50 No.14581305
    The only solution: stat them, roll dice, and then shut up because NONE OF YOU KNOW TWO SHITS ABOUT EITHER ONE OF THEM.

    So, two sub-par 3.5 classes: the Samurai and the Knight. Who would win?
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:50 No.14581306
    > Japanese are as a whole, fucked in the head.
    But you can't apply a genuinely unbiased anthropological view to that? Nice, this sounds like it's going to be disastrous.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:50 No.14581308
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    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:50 No.14581313
    The battle approaches. The opposing forces stand at hill tops, cursing eachother's treacherous behavior. The knight has his gunmen set up on the hill while the ninjas prepare the attack ferrets. The revolting peasants are broken up into 2 massive unorganized ranks. The first rank is made of of peasants with sickles, flails, jabbing sticks, and those who have chosen to carry their potatoes in their socks as weapons (different from a flail because it is so ineffective it would be an insult to all flail kind to compare the two), while the second rank is composed of 30ft ranged short bow wielders as well as those with potato slings.
    On the opposite hill, the conscript spear men are terrified of their own side's wardogs, who have already eaten one of them. The samurai assures them all that the wardogs are for morale purposes only and will not be used in battle due to their uncontrollable nature in large numbers. The samurai club is all geared up for combat with bows at the ready. They position themselves at the top of the opposite hill aiming at what will soon be the killing field.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:51 No.14581319
    Samurai cuts knight in half with a single blow.
    Alternatively fires a single arrow that penetrates the knight's plate mail like a cheerleader on prom night and slices clean through his heart.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:51 No.14581324
    Then the battle begins. The samurai and knight watch their men eagerly, stopping only to flip each other off from their vantage points. Both sides charge, and just as the peasants meet in the middle, the ninjas release the attack ferrets and run away. Countless rabid ferrets slither their snake like bodies down into the battle, mainly being a smelly nuisance. Seeing this, the samurai instantly releases his six hundred wardogs as arrows and musket balls pour into the peasants.
    The wardogs kill everyone on the battle field, eat the ferrets, become rabid, and then proceed to run off and cause havok through out the country side. This section of Japan is now plagued by rabid dogs bred for war with demon masks. At this point, the gunmen have run out of ammo. They are then commanded to charge, and use the guns like clubs, never being instructed on bayonet use, and there being some confusion as to what a bayonet actually is.
    The Samurai archers fill them up with arrows, which they can carry more of, but are kind of afraid of the wardogs, so they go home. Now it should just be the knight and the samurai, right? Well you're wrong. They both ran away when they saw that shit was getting serious. The knight is on a boat, going home while the Samurai is at home having peasant girls kidnapped for raping. Now while this section of Japan is plagued by rabid horror dogs that hide in the rice fields and eat children, everyone the knight has ever loved is currently dying of the plague in Europe.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:52 No.14581328
    No one wins. That's right, no one, because nobles are fucking cocks. Why did I do this giant cop out? Because no matter who I said won, the other side would whine and bitch and moan about it. Besides, I figure this was a pretty accurate representation of how the nobles would have handled it. You my now discuss amongst yourselves how I am the greatest of all history simulators and how I ought to be honored.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:52 No.14581335
         File1302717157.jpg-(211 KB, 400x352, green-dragon.jpg)
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    Dragon > ...
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:52 No.14581338

    The knight stays alive out of pure badassery, then beats the samurai to death with his bare, gauntleted hands.

    >this is exactly as likely as his idea
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:53 No.14581340
    Oh look, its this thread again.

    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:55 No.14581360

    Bravo anon, Bravo.

    >And everyone the knight has ever known is busy dying of the plague in europe.

    I laughed.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:55 No.14581364

    I especially liked the bit about the potato.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:55 No.14581367
    If this was meant to be funny... it wasn't.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:56 No.14581372
    Both were warriors of great training and refinement of their specific cultures.

    1-on-1 who wins? WHO KNOWS? It's not the equipment, it's the fighter it's all about. We're not in a MMORPG game here. Hell they can leave the swords and pick up rocks or sticks and kill each other like that if necessary.


    This is gonna turn into katana vs broadsword again.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:57 No.14581382
    I'm inclined to disagree. This is the first time I read this, and I was laughing heartily by the time the potatoes came up.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)13:58 No.14581402
    I'm glad someone enjoyed it. I enjoyed writing it.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:01 No.14581425
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    This is a good thread.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:04 No.14581449
    whoever wins, we all lose.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:04 No.14581452
    My favorite part was kata-no-potato
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:05 No.14581455

    you are now listening to "Burning Down the House" by Talking Heads while imagining a Samurai and a Knight throwing potatoes at each other. Then they realize it would be fun to cut potatoes in the air so they take turns at it. They beome friens. Everyone is happy. The end.

    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:07 No.14581479
    Knight vs Samurai: the sequel.
    >> Yamato Man is underpowered in d20 Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:08 No.14581486
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    That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Robot Master" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Yamato Man deserves much better than that. Much, much better than that.

    I should know what I'm talking about. I myself built a genuine Yamato Man in my Skull Castle for 2,400,000 Zenny (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut a solid steel Mechazaurus with my Yamato Man.

    I, Dr. Wily, spend years working on a single Yamato Man and duplicate it up to eight times to produce the finest Robot Masters known to mankind.

    Yamato Man is thrice as sharp as Mega Man and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a Mega Buster can cut through, a Yamato Spear can cut through better. I'm pretty sure Yamato Man could easily bisect Knight Man wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

    Ever wonder why Mega Man never bothered finishing me off? That's right, he was too scared to fight the disciplined Yamato Man and his Yamato Spear of destruction. Even in Mega Man 6, experienced players targeted Yamato Man first because his killing power was feared and respected.

    So what am I saying? Yamato Man is simply the best Robot Master that the world has ever seen, and thus, requires better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Yamato Man:

    (One-Handed Exotic Robot Master) 1d12 Damage 19-20 x4 Crit +2 to hit and damage Counts as Masterwork

    (Two-Handed Exotic Robot Master) 2d10 Damage 17-20 x4 Crit +5 to hit and damage Counts as Masterwork

    Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Yamato Man in real life, don't you think?

    tl;dr = Yamato Man needs to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block. Ha ha ha!
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:10 No.14581500
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:13 No.14581530

    That was prolly the most realistic you can get

    Good show
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:13 No.14581535
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:15 No.14581552
    Was that a haiku?
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:17 No.14581573
         File1302718678.jpg-(33 KB, 483x303, ford-model-t-1a.jpg)
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    Who would win if we put them both on conveyer belts with their horses and have them fight through the Ford Model T factory?
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:18 No.14581576
    glad to see civilized discussion and joking instead of shitstorm.

    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:18 No.14581578
    op is so trolling.

    well, let's have fun: assume he's not.
    armour : designed to counter weapons of their own time and place. it's like saying caveman vs us marine. knights armour will do better early on in the fight, but it will fatigue out the knight faster than samurai's. plus, less perception. samurai is fucked at the beginning.
    katana vs broadsword - broadsword wins. it's just too verstile. you want a sword? broadsword. you want a club? broadsword. katana is used to "cut cut cut stab", which is overall ineffective against knights' armour. ignoring wakizashi and tanto tho they can help.
    yami vs... nothing: samurai has a ranged weapon!
    lance vs naginata/yami: samurai wins. they can use those both on horseback and on foot. they can play keepaway when the lance is casted aside.
    military training - impossible to compare. individually graded.

    tl;dr - this comparison sucks. go get laid
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:19 No.14581585
    I'm so happy.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:20 No.14581591
    Someone didn't read the thread
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:21 No.14581613
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    >I, Dr. Wily, spend years working on a single Yamato Man
    You dumb ass! Dr. Wily didn't build Yamato Man, he just stole and reprogrammed him!
    Jesus, man, don't act like you know what you're talking about.
    You don't fucking know what you're talking about.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:28 No.14581628
    What year is the knight from? What year is the samurai from? What styles do they employ? How well versed are they in their styles? What is the terrain like? What is the weather like?

    Ultimately, they never did fight eachother, so we don't know. They were two different styles of warrior designed for fighting different foes.

    The samurai's primary weapon is unsuitable for taking out a fullplate opponent. With full equipment the knight will be more unweildy than the samurai.

    We simply do not know. My bet, however, would be on a British longbowman with a pollaxe beating both.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:31 No.14581645

    The knight is from the year 1066. The "samurai" is from the year 1941. The knight has a warhorse, and other gear. The "samurai" has a A6M Zero.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:34 No.14581665

    > Implying Wily would not take the credit for 'his work'

    Wily is an megalomaniac lab assistant. This is the least of his crimes.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:34 No.14581670
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    These guys would beat the tar outta both of em
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:34 No.14581674
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    >The knight and warhorse will be armored as well as wealth can allow.

    >Now while the Japanese DID in fact have metal cuirasses in later part of the their history, but we will assume that this guy has only the O-Yoroi (that's the wood, leather, and padding) because in Japan, you would have been one important motherfucker to be wearing metal all over your body.

    Why is the knight a wealthy bastard while the samurai is a poorfag?
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:38 No.14581705
    ohhh ohh ohh. i know what will even the battle field:

    samurai vs knight, stripped nude, no horses, no thing. fight barefist. FIGHT!
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:38 No.14581706
    Mongol >>>> everybody else

    You are all small time
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:42 No.14581733

    glorious karate judo
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:42 No.14581735
    They have equivalent wealth, but in Japan metal is more expensive.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:44 No.14581749
    All they can do is break shitty walls.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:44 No.14581750

    The members of that lovable christian band?
    Why would i ever fear someone so kind?
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:47 No.14581768
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    oh no not thsi thread again!
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:48 No.14581775

    historically, Knights were wealthy bastards, and Samurai were... not. They were soldiers of rank, but still not "rich", especially not compared to the people who employed them.

    Knights were landed gentry, so they had tons of income from taxes / leases / etc.

    Samurai were soldiers, so they had income from their boss.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:57 No.14581830
    I loled hartily. Alas OP, I have no nubile young daughters for you to defile, but please accept my gratitude for an entetaining read.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:57 No.14581831

    some where rich tho
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)14:59 No.14581846
    you know nothing of the culture. just lurk newfriend.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:00 No.14581855
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    >everyone the knight has ever loved is currently dying of plague in Europe

    too soon
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:06 No.14581896
    This thread is proof that about 1/3 of /tg/ doesn't read the whole thread before posting
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:09 No.14581913
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    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:14 No.14581946
    So many VS threads today.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:15 No.14581955
    How about this.
    Guess what, warriors who have trained from birth are rarely worlds apart.
    Western knights were highly skilled, they weren't just hacks. There is nothing that claims that the Samurai would be somehow magically superior just because people still practise it.

    Now what else. The Samurai reigned during a time when Japan was relatively closed off and didn't trade neither research nor materials with the outside world, thus they didn't have the means to indulge in heavy research about the subject, and they didn't trade that knowledge from others who had it, instead they were busy fighting among themselves. In the meantime, the rest of the world were highly busy fighting wars both left and right with eachother, and also traded whatever for whatever with more or less whoever most of all times. Thus everyone had plentiful of the best resources available and could use this for research in lots of different ways promoting research on how to use it.

    But to break down to the simple matter.
    The Samurai were neither trained nor equipped to fight as properly armoured knights as those from the west given we are talking about the eras with tempered plate etc.
    And the Knights, were on the opposite, actually equiped and trained to take down light and middle armoured opponents.
    The Samurai would not get through.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:17 No.14581967
    >Full plate


    Research fail. Go back to D20 and stop pretending to have an interest in history
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:25 No.14582027
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    This thread just gets better and better, good one OP.

    >elitedur baron

    Yes captcha, OP is an Elite dur Baron
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:29 No.14582057

    And the best weapon against a gun are liberal politics.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:31 No.14582070
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:34 No.14582092
    Don't make me laugh. Beowulf was so ancient he could barely stand, and he still downed the biggest dragon in the land alone.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:36 No.14582107
    >implying that beowulf isn't Anglo-Saxon anti-dragon propaganda
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:41 No.14582162
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    Nothing to see here.

    There is no anti-dragon propaganda.
    There is no secret anti-dragon police.
    There are no dragons.

    Leave now.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:44 No.14582187
    idea for campaign
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:50 No.14582239
    Better idea for campaign: Orwellian dragon controlled fantasy game. The dragons are every where. Their shapeshifting abilities allowing them to hide anywhere they please.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:51 No.14582249
    I think you mean
    >Their shapeshifting abilities have been widely exaggerated like all of their abilities
    >dragons are just big lizards that make up stuff about themselves to collect tribute from small villages.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)15:56 No.14582277
    Dragon slayers are humans that are in cahoots with the dragons. The dragon slayers pretend to kill a few dragons and are heralded as the mightiest men to ever live. Then the dragons come back later (disguised) and pretend to eat them. Establishing themselves as the new 'most powerful lord of the land'.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)16:07 No.14582364
    That's what they think. And then the St. George Corps [that doesn't exist] puts a lance through their brain.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)16:13 No.14582425
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    I don't get why everyone nowadays have to copy the "Chinese Dragon Emperor" dragon archtype nowadays. That figure was just blown up on a whole different scale as the people couldn't deny the powers of their emperor/"deity" as their emperors seems to have been regarded as alot.
    You know, the emperors who "could" supposedly do anything, because you know, don't queston the emperor.
    Chinese dragon stories took a very different turn after the dragon emperor chose the dragon as a way to promote himself. Basically, if the emperor could do all that stuff, and the emperor was a dragon, then naturally the dragon (and by extension, dragons) could of course also do it, following that logic.

    In the west dragons have many times had strong magical properties, or been magical in nature. See Fafner etc.
    But they weren't spell-slinging, shapeshifting, shaman, martial-arts weilding, telepaths.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)16:14 No.14582434

    sometimes good things come out of shitty threads.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)16:30 No.14582590
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    >historically, Knights were wealthy bastards, and Samurai were... not. They were soldiers of rank, but still not "rich", especially not compared to the people who employed them.
    >Knights were landed gentry, so they had tons of income from taxes / leases / etc.
    >Samurai were soldiers, so they had income from their boss.

    Yeah, let's totally ignore how they used to be rich peasants (because weapons and horses cost money, especially those fucking horses) and nobles who pushed the regular state army of footmen out of business when it came to policing actions in the interior of the Heian-state. A money-saving device because the state found that both keeping the army around and to pay for the training and upkeep of those awesome horse-archers was too expensive. And yet they needed a fast response force for policing actions.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)16:33 No.14582624

    >implying that Japanese didn't use shittons of guns before the nostiaga fags banned them.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)16:40 No.14582684
    Couched Lance damage >>>> Horse Archery

    And if we are talking about katanas... Couched lance damage outclasses masterwork bastard swords even worse.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)16:41 No.14582697
    A simple way to settle this

    Get a set of samurai armor and a katana on mount and blade

    fight a guy with plate armor a sword

    WHO WINS!?
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)16:44 No.14582716

    That book was terrible. They never gave up on the gun, the Bakuhan simply did not have hands big enough to hold everyone by the balls, so they decided to disarm as many people as possible.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)16:46 No.14582733
    >ctrl+f KNIGHT WINS

    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)16:54 No.14582809
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)17:07 No.14582919
    Who would win, in any situation, boils down to two things. Firstly, you check weapon levels, which basically means the range and rate at which you can kill. Modern carbines and assault rifles beat earlier battle rifles due to rate. Battle rifles beat muskets for range (rifling). Guns beat swords and arrows for range and rate. Arrows trump swords at range, but suffer from rate, especially up close. The decider within a given tech level is always training (or size of army). Knights and samurai were both highly trained melee warriors. While each has a certain 'style', which variably gives one the advantage over the other, in practice both would be highly competent and skilled warriors more than capable of adapting their approach on the fly.
    Any study of historical or modern warfare makes it abundantly clear: provided there is not massive gap in equipment levels, victory is obtained through the best strategy, the best tactics, the best training, with a little bit of luck thrown in.
    >> Anonymous 04/13/11(Wed)17:16 No.14583022
    >not massive gap in equipment levels
    There is though. Plate, or even chain-shirts are kinds of armour the Japanese could only dream off. Their weapons would not cut it, even the westerners weapons didn't really cut it, and they had studied the suits directly trying to counter them. The results were so so, but it was in essence an era when protective gear had an advantage over offensive gear.

    One doesn't even need to go through western vs eastern swords/bows, because netiher would do.

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