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  • File : 1302325472.png-(300 KB, 609x294, shadowrun.png)
    300 KB Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:04 No.14528630  
    Shadowrun General

    Anyone want to help someone get into the game?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:11 No.14528711
    No one ever goes for my Shadowrun threads

    Fuck my life
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:11 No.14528714
    Do you mean like... overhype it so you end up with unrealistic expectations of what it's like?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:13 No.14528732
    The first time I played shadowrun it was for a campaign. A friend of mine helped me make my character. I said, "I want to be robocop" and he said ok. Then he asked me if I wanted a bigger gun and I said yes.

    Playing robocop is awesome.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:17 No.14528772
    shadowrun is awesome as long as you get into the 'we are criminals' groove. generally otherwise people get too tied up in bs.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:18 No.14528785
    No, I mean explain how the rules work. I've been interested in Shadowrun since '94, just never found a group to play with. I've been looking at 4th edition and I'm interested in GMing it

    Robocop is totally perfect for a setting, did you shoot a ganger in the nut?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:19 No.14528792
    Give your friend a brofist for me.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)01:20 No.14528802
    Watch Mission Impossible.

    Then Watch Oceans 11.

    Then watch Blade Runner.

    Then watch Ghost in the Shell.

    Then Read Neuromancer.

    Then watch Oh Brother, Where Art Though?

    Then play Shadowrun.

    Rule explanation to come.
    >> 008 04/09/11(Sat)01:20 No.14528807
    I've played one campaign of Shadowrun so far. It was alright. Probably better with a different crew.
    I played an elf weapon spec who grabbed milspec armor off an ARES heavy corpsec and became the team tank
    We also had a human sniper (his player was incredibly egocentric, the character was worse)
    an orc spirit mage
    a human chaos mage (who got in nonstop catfights with the spirit mage)
    an NPC hacker
    and we had a That Guy (girl). She played a gnome changeling that looked like a skunk, was the team face with crazy minmaxed social skills and was also a latent dracomorph.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:20 No.14528808
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)01:22 No.14528830

    Rules wise, it's pretty straightfoward.

    Basically, it's stat + skill in D6s. 5's and 6's are hits, you need a number of hits determined by something else, depending on what you're doing.

    Basically, think of a more sophisticated version of nWoD.

    Characters are generated via the Build Point system. 400 BP for a standard character. 10 points per attribute point, 4 points per skill, 1 Bp for 5000 nuyen (cash).

    What aspect did you want me to explain first? There's a lot.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:25 No.14528854
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    No, I find people get too tied up in the minutia of planning.

    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:25 No.14528856
    >Watch Mission Impossible.
    >Oceans 11.
    >Ghost in the Shell.

    >Blade Runner.
    >Oh Brother, Where Art Though?
    Now we're talking. I have the 2E book right next to me, is it worth learning those rules or go for newer?
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)01:26 No.14528870
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    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)01:27 No.14528878

    You forgot old film noir movies. The Maltese Falcon would be a good start. Dashell Hammet (spelling?)'s books are also good reads. Then watch the Matrix. Then watch the music video on youtube for Sisters of Mercy's "This Corrosion". Or at least fit those in somewhere.


    Funny, my current character's handle is Skunk. Except the hair color comes from her being a border collie shapeshifter.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:31 No.14528917
    Let's see...let's say I want to make a decker human like Lupus Yonderboy from Neuromancer. How would I stat him to be a face/sneaky guy?
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)01:31 No.14528922

    You like Neuromancer, but don't like GitS? Interesting.

    Ocean's 11 I included for the generally fun, criminal capers feel of it. A bunch of skilled, slightly dysfunctional people get together to stick it to the man and get rich in the process. Hilarity Ensures.

    Go for 4th, for the love of god.

    The older editions are flawed as anything. The chief issue is the lack of internal consistency, each section of the game works totally differently. Hacking was basically pizza break time for everyone else in 2nd and 3rd. 4's a very slick, very flexible system.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:36 No.14528962
    GitS is more of a post cyberpunk feel to it. Where is the low living? It seems like everyone is doing relatively well

    Ok, I'll accept that for O11, but really any caper movie will do. Hell even the movie Hideous would be a decent Shadowrun adventure

    I've heard 4th is the best, my goal is to grab the 20th Anniversary book and maybe some of the splatbooks like Augumentation because I get a chubby for cybers
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:38 No.14528985
    GitS has plenty of low living. slums everywhere, you see a few in the course of the stories.

    The second season spent a fair while on refugee slums and the like.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)01:38 No.14528991

    Well, the challenge there the jack of all trades issue.

    You're trying to make a face, hacker, and sneaky dude all in one.

    Now, Hacker Synigises pretty well with either.

    But generally what you'll probably end up with is excellent at one, pretty good at another, and with an extra skill or so from the third to complete the character.

    Well, you'd be wanting good Intuition and Charisma skills, for the sneaking and talking parts. Hacking's skill and gear based, mainly.

    So, we'd be taking at least:

    4 in the Cracking Skill Group.
    4 in the Electronics Skill Group
    3 in Stealth Skill Group
    3 in Influence Skill Group

    Skill groups consist of 3-5 skills related to one another. You pay 10 BP per skill group rank, rather than 4 bp per individual skill rank. It's essentially a bulk discount.

    So, you'd have skills in:
    - Negotiation
    - Con
    - Leadership
    - Etiquette (figuring out how a given group operates socially. Ie, how much I can get away with here, would intimidation be respected, what's the protocol for bribes, etc.)

    Stealth is

    Cracking is
    Electronic Warfare

    and Electronics is
    Data Search
    and Computer

    Intuition and Charisma of 5.

    Or possibly go elf, Yonderboy has that sort of vibe from him. They're good with charisma.

    You can explicitly get one of those suits that he wears. They're called Chameleon suits.

    That would be basically everything you needed for the core, with a bit left over.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)01:40 No.14529013

    Ahah, we BEGIN.

    I argued as you did at one stage, but is low living really a requirement for cyberpunk? Isn't it meant to show the contrast between rich and poor?

    And even THAT is mean to highlight the contrast between utopian technology, and human reality.

    Slums are good, and they're aesthetically very Cyberpunk, particularly the punk aspects, but they're more of a shorthand of other aspects.

    Also, remember the garbage man and the back streets and the market and the abandoned building.

    All pretty grungy. There's still people out there scraping the bottom of the barrel. Remember how crappy that hoodie thermoptic guy's cybernetic legs were compared to the Major's.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)01:46 No.14529077
    140 for skills.

    80 for your key attributes, 70 to make all other attributes 2 (should be improved in some areas, your call).

    So, 290 BP out of 400 so far.

    50 BP for gear (maximum), so you can get all the hacking and sneaking and BnE and auxiliary stuff you want.

    60 BP left. So, another dozen or so skill points around the place, or some good qualities, and some contacts.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)01:48 No.14529102
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    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)01:48 No.14529105
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    If you want an anime inspiration I'd point you at Bubblegum Crisis. The original, not the 2040 remake.


    One way to go, albeit a bit financially intensive, is the Move By Wire system and just get skillsofts for Infiltration, social and firearms skills. Get a Move By Wire R2 or so second-hand so it's half price at the cost of a little more Essence, and the price should be manageable. It's all in Augmentation.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)01:49 No.14529111

    Oh, god, I suck so many dicks.

    Yes, BG Crisis original is SO GODDAMN CYBERPUNK. It's also a really good show, with some pretty awesome original music.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:50 No.14529122
    Everything is all clean and shiny though, granted that one guy with the uzi in the movie kinda looked a little grungy. Low life in my eyes includes a lack of police except for corporate owned ones. Which are inevitably corrupt and either are trying to go up the ladder or just survive. GitS has criminals all set, like the organ thieves

    I can definitely see him as an elf, I'd think of him as decker first, then face, and lastly sneaky. He wouldn't be able to sneak into a AAA corp, but he could get through a crowd relatively well.

    I'm not saying GitS is bad, it's just not my thing. I'm an old schooler for cyberpunk. I became interested in Shadowrun in the mid 90's, so that's where it's always stuck in my head. I will say the cleaner living would be good for a Metropolis styled campaign though
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)01:50 No.14529123
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    I'd make a build for you doing that, but it looks like Molly's on a roll here, so I'ma let her do her thang. She knows her shit.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:56 No.14529177
    Ah, I read about softs. How useful are they in the long run? I wouldn't mind saving up to buy a soft that I could wait for instead of having a lopsided character. Are they one use/easily destroyed?

    Ah BGC, I really need to watch that. Is their any auguments like from MD Geist?

    I remember seeing both of you from other threads, so thanks. I'd gladly take any/all advice because I really haven't played Shadowrun at all. I know the history, I know the fluff, I love it all; I just don't know how to play the table top.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:56 No.14529181
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    Animu shadowrun you say...
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)01:57 No.14529188
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    I've never heard of anything so ridiculous...
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:00 No.14529221
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    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:02 No.14529232

    Well, go with what I've specified there.

    Then 'ask' your GM if you can break a skill group into it's constituent parts at Chargen (formality, but it's needed to help avoid min-maxing assholes).

    Then spend 2 points on brining Data Search up to 6 (maximum), with a specialisation in ... oh. Corporate Networks? Data Havens? Something data-ey. Yondaboy seemed to be a guy with his finger on the pulse.

    Other candidates are Hacking, or Cybercombat. Basically, one of those skills is going to be incredible.

    I'd also recommend you have a look at the Codeslinger quality. 10 BP, you get +2 on doing a specific matrix action. So, hypothetically, you could get a pool of around 16 or so to find data. That's on average 5 successes or so.

    To search the entire matrix is 1 minute per check, and you need 16 successes to find extremely difficult to find stuff. So Mr Yonderboy could dig up anything that's on the open matrix in around 4 minutes. 1 combat turn for the same network, and 1 initiative pass for the same device, so once he's IN to a system, he can dig out what he needs very quickly.

    That's a useful skill, I think.

    50 BP on gear is probably slightly above what you need, but it means you'll be very comprehensively equipped.

    Possible other aquisitions are a 5 BP quality, (Restricted Gear). It lets you take a higher level object from the star. Usually the avaliability is limited to 12 for starting characters. This lets you take up to AVA 20 items.

    That could get you a rating 6 commlink, allowing you to use rating 6 programs. Which is handy for a hacker.

    There's a few qualities in there that make you more chatty online (bonuses on social skills one).

    There's also a drawback that's essentially a net
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)02:02 No.14529238
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    They're not one use, no. The only real downsides are you can't improve them with Karma (since you're not using your own skill you don't get any better at it) and you can't use Edge to boost them (Edge is like Courage or Hero or Action points in various other systems, extra dice for when you really need em). So you want em to be pretty good starting out. The real expense is the skillwire system or move by wire system, which costs Essence and a lot of money. MBW costs more money but also gets you more actions per turn, which in SR is pretty necessary to keep up with the proverbial Joneses anyways. Once you have the system to run them on, the softs aren't that expensive.

    Never saw MD Geist, unfortunately. I'm actually kind of a shoujo/joseifag (pic related, that's my shit right there). Eclectic tastes I guess.


    I never could figure out how to make that work on my emulator. :(
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:03 No.14529256
    news addiction. Depending on how bad it is, it'll require you to spend X hours a day on the net, checking feedsites, news, forums, etc. Seems in character for yonderboy.

    There's also a negative quality that makes you worse socially if you're face to face with the target.

    Another quality is "Scorched". Means you've had a bad run in with ICE in the past, a run that fried you a bit mentally. Makes you weaker against them.

    Softs can be handy. But the rig they're in is a bit essence intensive, and the activesofts themselves are kinda expensive.

    Having said that, being able to essentially upload skills into your brain is a very handy skill to have in a pinch, particularly if you can borrow a skillsoft from the Johnson for the run, sidestepping the activesoft costs.

    Don't forget that Knowsofts and Linguasofts just need a datajack to work.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:06 No.14529275

    MBW systems are pretty awesome, but considering the cost, they're more of a sammy thing. Don't forget that as a hacker, Yonderboy'll be getting extra IP when he's in full VR or Hotsim.

    Possibly poke around to see if you can fit in a Simsense Accelerator or the like. It's like a Wired Reflexes system for hackers. Can give you the edge in time-critical tasks.

    Welcome to poke around. Try Daegann's character generator. Well designed chargen program, has everything, easy to use.
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)02:07 No.14529290

    The activesofts are twelve grand for a rating 4 (veteran level) skill, and they're legal so you can fuckin' buy em off the shelf at K-mart if they're not, like, How To Fire Rocket Launchers For Dummies. They're not that hard to get ahold of.
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)02:09 No.14529302

    Well, what I was thinking is if he buys the hacking skills as softs, that's another bundle of BP he'll be saving. Full Script Kiddie. But maybe that's too deviant from the original concept?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:10 No.14529308
    I mostly turned things into paste and stood in front of bullets. One of my favorite fights was when a helicopter started shooting at us while we were meeting with a Mr. Johnson in the Seattle Needle. The mage fell immediately and I was able to carry him out while getting pelted by heavy machinegun fire. Felt like a fucking hero (which is rare in shadowrun).

    I will do next time I see him!
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)02:10 No.14529309

    On second thought, you're right. He'd probably be better off with a regular old skillwire and a shot of Jazz on hand if he needs to fight in the flesh.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:10 No.14529312

    2.5 BP for a skill you can't improve, and a skill that you probably don't have the supplemental abilities to effectively use?

    It's handy for stuff like pilot or mechanic, but it's limited in the scope of it's use.

    Don't forget you can only have 2 in at a time, and that starting characters can only have up to level 3.
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)02:11 No.14529329

    I'd forgotten about the two at a time thing. But what's this about starting characters only can get up to level 3? The availability's not based on Rating. Where are you seeing this?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:12 No.14529337
    Holy shit, I love that Shadowrun has options to go with. Kinda a segway, but what is the difference between a Technomancer (I swear that's what it's called? Also called a Otaku at one point) and a decker?

    I figure it would be good just as a cheap backup to start with, then get more expensive ones later for the crazy shit, or am I totally misunderstanding how they work? MD Geist is an 80s ridiculous metal movie that is so so, but they have some awesome robots and Geist has a augument for his arm that revs when it works.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:12 No.14529338

    Jazz and Betameth, I've found. Or kamikaze if things are getting interesting. Betameth gives you agility and reaction, both quite useful if you have to fight.


    Given how broad a skillset hacking/computery stuff requires (at least 4 or so skills), Activesofts are a bit troublesome. And they're in skillgroups anyway. They're essentially 2.5 bp a rank.

    Activesofts can only get you so far, you can only crap a limited amount into your skillwires.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:13 No.14529344
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    If I was to ever play SR, I'd probably play a Troll, or a really steroid/muscled out Human.

    Just so I can use this old Ogryn mini. Its so fucking 80s cyberpunk style.
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)02:15 No.14529371

    I think you mean segue. Segways are the scooters.

    That said, the whole idea is that technomancers are para-magical and connect to the Matrix with just their minds. See Neo in the later movies, or Lain. They tend to follow rules that parallel those for magicians with their hacking.

    Technomancers take a lot more Karma to get good, but they have some cool tricks. For instance, they can summon "sprites", which are like Internet spirits, or code on the fly. In a straight up fight with a regular hacker at chargen they're probably weaker, though.

    You could totally upgrade softs later.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:17 No.14529392

    Well, it's Rating x2 worth of skill ranks gained.

    Skillwires (Rating 1–5) Essence Rating x 0.2 — AVA (Rating x 4) Rating x 2,000¥

    That's for the Skillwires system.


    Basically, after the matrix crash at the end of 3rd, the Technomancers started turning up. Unlike the Otaku, they didn't lose their powers with age, and they can't use cyberware. There's some spiritual differences as well, but that's basically the ghist. The Otaku were essentially the pupae state of technomancers, big-picture wise. There's been some speculation that the Otaku were the equivalent of the 'Spike Babies', the elves and dorfs born before the awakening, and the Technomancers are the equivalent of proper expression, like when the mass birthings of elves and dwarves happened.

    Hilarity ensures when we think about the equivalents of SURGE and Goblinisation.

    Anyway, Technomancers ARE the programs. They can also summon up essentially micro-ai, or matrix spirits. They're called Sprites.

    They're less flexible, but probably better at their core competancies. They base their matrix powers off their own skills and attributes. They ARE a commlink, essentially.

    They can also improvise programs they don't possess, and power up existing ones.

    They'll never (as starting characters) have the same range of programs as regular hackers, but they can certainly be better in certain areas. Plus the Sprite Advantage.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:21 No.14529437

    I have a troll in my group ATM that throws bits of Rebar/Girders around the place. He's an adept. He does more damage than an anti-material rifle with them. Frikking Adepts.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:22 No.14529447
    Oh whoa...I kinda feel dumb by being barely able to keep up with you guys. So a soft rig eats that much essence up? I doubt I'll have too many cybered parts, I doubt I'd be a major combat guy, but I'd make sure to be able to fire a pistol at least. Maybe just the jack, a rig if necessary, and some eyes. Although a cyber arm with a hidden gun would be badass down the line.

    I love Shadowrun stories, reminds me of some adventure I came across where the group needed to steal an aquarium and fish from a museum. The idea gave me a good laugh

    Also Molly, I loved the Scorched quality. Totally fits with Neuromancer
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:28 No.14529509
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    Our Rigger has a new beef with SK.

    One of their mages fried her van.

    She wants to gank Lofwer for it. (Mostly jokingly...)

    I was wondering. What would you gents do to drop a great?

    SR3, if it helps.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:28 No.14529517
    Derp, yeah you're right. Kinda getting fried trying to grasp a character all at once. Technomancers seem cool, but probably not a solid choice for my first character.

    That reminds me, is there any way to find an iirc group looking for players? I thought I should get some experience on my belt before I try GMing in my town. It's sad the there are really no RPGers here
    >> Mr. Bungle !!BCTebESNF7d 04/09/11(Sat)02:30 No.14529537
    Never played SR, but I'm guessing H-bombs.
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)02:32 No.14529551

    I was going to say, does anyone have any contacts involved with a nuclear weapons program?
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)02:34 No.14529577

    Hey, my last group was all new to SR and 4/6 new to tabletop RPGing and it worked out fine. Honestly, the secret is I pulled in a bunch of chicks I knew from undergrad with online LJ RP experience, and the rules they picked up later, but they were fantastic roleplayers. One of them is GMing her own SR campaign this summer, the one I'm playing that shifter in. TL:DR if there are no gamers, create some. It's better to play with friends anyways.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:36 No.14529604
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    All sorts of large score explosives(nukes, H-bombs) are...a bit..wonky, in the sixth world.

    Also, one Great tanked a hit from a Thor Shot(Rods from God).

    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:42 No.14529684

    Well as I quoted, the soft rig is rating x0.2. So a rating 3'd be 0.6. That's not so bad.

    I tend to recommend cybereyes for everyone. They're pretty cheap, and damn handy. Also, eye laser microphone. If there's glass near the conversation, you can hear it. Plus, Mirrorshades.

    Possibly a Mnemonic Enhancer, or a Cerebral Booster, to improve your knowledge skills or logic respectively.

    Tailored Pheromones make you more likeable, and give you bonuses in face to face social things.

    A simsense booster makes your brain interpret simsense more efficiently, so you'll be faster in the net. A math co-processor gives you bonuses to mathsy things, like electronic warefare and programming. Plus you can do maths super-fast.

    An Encethlethon enhances brain activity in certain ways, giving you bonuses to hacking and computer things, if you can afford one.

    And a Sleep Regulator lets you get by on 2 hours a night.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:46 No.14529731

    Great Dragons are essentially immune to normal weapons. It's not necessarily the raw power to resist them, it's the magic and edge-weaving abilities they have.

    An A2A missile might hurt one, but if they can flick a talon and conjure a physical barrier to detonate it, or a force 12 air elemental to conjure a hurricane to destroy the launching fighters, or simply use a spell to render it invisible 12 ways to sunday, then your options are very limited.

    One of them razed Tehran to the ground after a Jihad was declared against the awakened.

    Oh. And Lofwyr already knows that you asked, and has set in motion a dozen plans to bring you to discrete and untraceable ruin.
    >> SMAP 04/09/11(Sat)02:47 No.14529739
    It has been fairly well-established that something in the sixth world is causing nuclear weapons to detonate... oddly. Occasionally they don't go off at all, usually they create larger/smaller explosions than they should. There's been no real explanation as to what/why yet, but it's also strongly hinted that nuclear energy interacts with magic in weird ways, so maybe something there.

    Everyone has a beef with S-K, those guys are jerks.

    Realistically? He has no chance. Great dragons are some of the most powerful entities in the Shadowrun universe, and most of them have been alive for thousands or tens of thousands of years (and that's "active" time, not counting hibernation during magic's ebb points.) Lofwyr is generally acknowledged to be the second most powerful of them (after Hestaby in their recent confrontation) and is paranoid as fuck. He has a better chance of flying to the moon nude.

    As a revenge fantasy, though? Focus on the mundane. Dragons CAN be killed with mundane weapons (Aztechnology did some reasonable damage to Ghostwalker with a swarm of fighter jets), so building The Biggest Gun could be an amusing sort of project for him to get into. Maybe if it's crazy enough and he's good enough, Lofwyr will even take notice and give him a "you're fucking insane mang, good jorb" pat on the head (or cruise missile.)
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:48 No.14529755
    Wasn't there a hilarious abuse of ramming rules to kill a dragon?
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)02:50 No.14529768

    The SR writers have ventured into full retard territory off and on, and that's a prime example. If nukes don't work right anymore, that implies something about the fundamental physical forces has changed, which should have unfathomably far-reaching ramifications rather than being a "lol no nukes". It's dumb. My games tend to assume that they're still around, but the weakening of the nation state and the militarization of space have reduced their importance.


    I'm a believer in external optics (goggles, shades) over cybereyes. Save the Essence for when you really need it.

    Encephalons are the bomb for hackers and techies, though. I gotta second that, for sure.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:52 No.14529789

    You can only pack so much into externals, though, before the AVA starts getting ridiculous.

    You can get every vision thing in the book almost in rating 4 cybereyes for only .5 essence, and you can't have them knocked off.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:53 No.14529794
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    It's a rather good thing it's not been brought up in game, then, huh?


    ....hrm. Bigger gun....that appeals to the both of us.

    Honistly, our ST is a bit hard, but she won't just shut down things out of hand.

    Yes, he's big shit. However, it's times like this that...it's just so insane, that, well. Goddamn. Come on, really? REALLY?
    Either way, it's things like that, that are just theory crafting, that we can screw around with, that do help.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:54 No.14529806
    >> Everything is all clean and shiny though, granted that one guy with the uzi in the movie kinda looked a little grungy.
    What is it with people watching a few episodes or half the first GitS movie and saying it's all clean and shiny?

    Less expensive areas are a mishmash of semi-collapsed buildings, with the shiny & clean only being available for the upper class. It's common to wear a geiger counter, and unenhanced people are shit-scared of accidentally walking into a hot zone. Lower class people exist on menial jobs, scavenging junk, or getting industrial grade cyber so they can work in places that would kill a normal human.

    ... not exactly a utopia, and post-cyberpunk is a smoke-dream to troll /tg/.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:55 No.14529819

    I do like the plot options for revenge, though.

    Now, Lofwyr has been known to micromanage. The success of SK has been attributed to it.

    Now, supposing a run on SK was to somehow coindice with a surprise visit from a shapeshifted Lofwyr?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:56 No.14529823

    Honistly? I'm not overly troubled by it. The best idea I've seen someone come up with, is a Nuke is basically big enough to 'rouse Gaia from her rest, to a degree, and earn a "What's this shit? Blargh", and a hand waved at it. It might not stop it. It might make it BIGGER. But, it's enough to prod her to do something, because she no liky.
    >> SMAP 04/09/11(Sat)02:56 No.14529828
    Haven't checked the SR4 ramming rules, but in SR3 the damaged capped out pretty low. (By "low" I mean 20D, which is enough to make most things go splat instantly but was eminently survivable if you were a munchkin.)

    Cybereyes and shades/contacts both have their advantages. You'll never leave your eyes at home and they can fit whatever you want in them, but yeah, essence.

    Encephalon is nice for a tech guy; however, don't underestimate the value of going cyber-light or cyber-free; it makes it a lot easier to sneak into places with tight security, as you're more likely to find a way to slip a computer past their scanners than you are weapons or cyberware.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)02:59 No.14529849

    Personally, I'm going to pay attention to the guy with the 4kg goggles on his face when he walks into my office/restraunt. And Neuralware is actually pretty common. Datajacks and Cybereyes are practically universal.

    You have to carry a computer. Cyberware could be anything. Cyberarms, sure. But neuralware? Or something like bioware? Easier to hide.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)02:59 No.14529853
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    More likely then you might think.

    We've got a trip to Germany in about a month. We got a gene-crafted Catgirl mage, that we need to wipe all gene traces of from. And guess where they are keeping the backups?

    This is why I was asking. Yeah, I know, no way in a month we can plan that, but Karura was grubling about it, and I wanted to see what you crazy bitches could come up with.

    If only because, if it EVER worked, we could say, yes. We killed him. Because he fried one of our vans. Not even destroyed it...we're fixing it. But one of his mages fried it for a bit.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)03:01 No.14529871
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    Annd, you just killed her big hope. She was coming up with this crazy-ass idea for a super-sonic....thingy, that was packed with things that go boom.

    Then it explodes again.

    Damnit, I wanted to explode a dragon twice.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)03:01 No.14529872
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    Frank Reynolds, fixer.
    >> SMAP 04/09/11(Sat)03:01 No.14529875
    >If nukes don't work right anymore, that implies something about the fundamental physical forces has changed, which should have unfathomably far-reaching ramifications

    OR there is something/someone actively modulating the effects of any nuclear explosions that occur because they have a vested interest of some kind.

    I'll admit: there are a lot of times when SR's fluff is stupid, especially when you get into the immortals. However, nukes not working right has, so far, been pretty low-key; not "omg nukes don't work," but "Huh, the Ceremak Blast should've been bigger than that, guess the insects contained it somehow. Also, there are several incidents where nuclear weapons (that were eighty years old) failed to detonate and Winternight's nuke plans went a little awry as well."

    None of those things is damning evidence in their own right, but they all add up to something shady going on. We know it's not just a full-on "nukes don't work" because there are still fission and fusion power plants operating all across the sixth world and doing just dandy. It is something specific to the uncontrolled chain reaction of a critical mass weapon.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)03:02 No.14529879
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    >> SMAP 04/09/11(Sat)03:03 No.14529892
    Don't get all disappointed yet, like I said, i don't recall the SR4 ramming rules offhand. Look that shit up before you give up hope, SR4 is (as a rule) waaaaaaaaay more lethal than SR3 was. Even just slamming a 20P train into a dragon and then detonating a bomb has the potential to kill them... if he doesn't, you know, use spells and stuff.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)03:05 No.14529902
    Huh. Well, you're going up against something with at least body 25, and strength 50. You need to do minimum 12 damage or it just bounces off. That's assuming he doesn't have a force 12 armour spell quickened on his person as well.

    I'd say wait till he was human form, then hit the building with a thor shot or something. That, or line the walls with rating 15 and chunky salsa the barstard.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)03:12 No.14529961
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    We -are- playing 3ed.


    ...actually. Actually. This...might work. Sure, it's a bitch and a half, and you need to BE there...but, Thor Shots can be hacked...

    Oh, it's for way down the line. Kaguya is some crazy stuff, she's about the only PC I've ever really min-maxed, but...hm.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)03:15 No.14529990
    Oh goddamn. I just read the ramming rules.

    A bulldog step-van going at 90 will be dealing 32 points of physical damage. That's enough to insta-kill a human 3 times over.

    Ramming someone with a jet...
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)03:18 No.14530005

    Well, people aren't even meant to KNOW about the Thor Shots, and I imagine that they're packing ICE only rivaled by Zurich Orbital.
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)03:19 No.14530011

    >post-cyberpunk is a smoke-dream to troll /tg/.



    Maybe you're right. It's not to my personal taste, at least.
    >> SMAP 04/09/11(Sat)03:19 No.14530013
    Ah, my mistake, I must've missed that.

    Look up the stats on naval weapons; they add damage categories above deadly if you're interested in absurdly big things that go boom.

    Don't rely on out-planning him or hacking corporate technologies over to your side- Lofwyr is a sneaky sonofabitch and will turn these things against him. Trust only yourself and your runner team and only them as far as you can throw them. He has ears everywhere. Every part of your plan should be scrubbed clean ten times, dirtied ten more times to make it look natural again, triply-redundant and entirely under your control so that no one can possibly betray you. Paranoia, mang.
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)03:20 No.14530019

    Maybe if he flies up to the actual Thor Shot and accesses it manually, lol. Bet they won't have IC for that.
    >> SMAP 04/09/11(Sat)03:22 No.14530035
    You really think they won't notice when an unscheduled rocket goes into orbit/a scheduled flight diverges from its course? After the shit that went down during the Second Crash? They will roast your ass so fast you won't have time for a prayer.

    Still a better chance than hacking from a distance, though.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)03:24 No.14530042

    They're in 3rd ed. 2nd crash hasn't happened yet.

    Ah, I see a path. Find and recruit one of the rogue AI's to help you.

    Alternatively, camp out in orbit until the crash hits and take advantage of the lull in defenses to hijack one.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)03:25 No.14530048
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    Mmh. I do know. It still gives me a base to start planing. And in game it's come up once or twice. It's more of a rumor, then anything else, but it makes SENSE, what with nukes being wonky.


    No, I do know. It's the watch-word. Franky, my character is better at planing then I am. She's....INT 10. (Natural Int 8, thanks to over-costing, gene-modding and an edge, then another 2 in Bioware). There's a few other matrix things.

    Blaa, Anyway, like I was saying. SHE'S heads and ears above what I can think of, hence my asking here. Because she's smater then me.

    It's a bugger, but...
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)03:29 No.14530080
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    Who said anything about being UNSCHEDULED.


    Also...uh. Bioware. STR 8, Quickness 9. And skills. She...is somewhat ridiculous. Just sneaking onto it is not out of the question. Well, it is NOW, but, later on...



    ...that might give us a shot at it. She has been helping out some...if she is what I think she is.

    Oh! Question. Karura and I have been book looking, and not found a damn thing about Damage caps for ramming. What book/page?
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)03:30 No.14530086

    Possibly we're going about this the wrong way. Does it have to be Lofwyr himself? What about SK?

    Hurting them is a lot more feasible.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)03:36 No.14530132
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    Either or....one does follow the other.

    I think she was personally offrnted that his mage did it, so she wanted to bag herself a dragon. Like I said, it was mostly OOC joking, but, I like to try and figure things out, because she's a good friend, and helped me a lot with stuff. (IE, I got some depression, and she helps me work through it).

    It's not REALLY meant to be serious, but, sort of a "Well, if you really wanted to...here's a plan for you."

    Mostly because we both giggle at the "You...you bastard! You fry our van! Well...FUCK. YOUR. COUCH."


    Anything you post is helping me, as I'm a crappy planner, and I just enjoy talking to you guys, because even the not very big plans are fun.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)03:37 No.14530143

    Ah. Page 160 of the original core book for 4th ed.

    No idea about 3rd.

    Basically there's a table. Depending on speed, the body of the vehicle ramming gets multiplied a certain amount.
    >> SMAP 04/09/11(Sat)03:40 No.14530172
    I think a better way to go about it would be to take an eye for an eye. He wrecks your van? Well, two can play at that game! Spend some time working on a spectacular way to destroy something of his, and the bigger the better. If you can do it by ramming a van (same model, natch) full of explosives into the target, all the sweeter.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)03:42 No.14530186
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    The van just needs to be re-wired.

    She just jokingly wanted to go right to the top.

    Honistly, we'll likely just have a laugh about this later....but, your idea does have merit, too.

    *jots it down*
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)03:46 No.14530212
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    . . .

    Alright, here's how we're going to do things.

    You're going to get 30500kg of rating 15 explosive.

    You're going to steal/buy/hack a shipping container. They can hold up to 30500kg of stuff.

    You're going to find a company across the road from SK's place. You're going to create a need for this building to get renovated.

    At the same time, infiltrate the company and figure out who they're going to hire to do the building.

    At this point, the plan begins.

    Infiltrate the building company, figure out who their crane drivers are, and create nano-masks of their faces. Steal their hair, their blood, etc. We want to be able to impersonate them perfectly.

    You kill the original and replace his ass. At which point you go into work for this construction project. You climb into the crane.

    At this point, the other runners tear down the street with a semi. The shipping container full of explosives is on the back.

    At this point, the back of the SECOND TRUCK will open, and someone will fire an anti-tank missile into the boardroom on the 42nd floor of the place, shattering the windows. At this point, you use a specially designed miniture of your van, with a rocket attacked, to fire the miniture into the board room. It lands on the desk.

    Now the craneman PICKS UP THE SHIPPING CONTAINER with the crane, and wrecking ball style, throws it into the side of the SK build.

    At which point you detonate the explosives.

    About 180 physical damage (by 4th ed standards) is done to the building.

    Thank you SK, fuck you Lofwyr.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)03:48 No.14530232
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    Damn. If nothing else....that makes me laugh my ass off.

    Thank you. You just made my night non-shitty, by making me laugh my ass off.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)03:49 No.14530235
    Oh, and the miniature van will have little speakers on the side that play Queen's "Princes of the Universe" on loop.
    >> Mr. Bungle !!BCTebESNF7d 04/09/11(Sat)03:53 No.14530263
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    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)04:08 No.14530350
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    Always wanted to play a Street Sam/Adept based on Beat from JGR/JSRF, Instead I ended up playing the rigger, who was a dwarf... and a pirate... and allergic to fish.

    Sadly we didn't play long enough for me to get my RPG peg leg(shit was expensive), or my biodrone parrot, had a kick ass van though, it doubled as my boat
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)04:13 No.14530377

    I ended up putting together a pretty righteous Faith from Mirror's edge. That'd be pretty easy to adapt into a skater type.

    Wall running, freefall, glide, improved ability (skating). 6 ranks in Gymnastics or something to that effect.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)04:17 No.14530404
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    Oh, lawdy.


    Oh, fun miss-adventure?

    I spent about 3 hours using the SR3 gun making rules, statting out my dream gun.

    At the end, it costed like 50,500 to make ONE of, was about...22 pounds.

    Basically, it was the Aries Alpha...only worse in every way. I basically replicated most of the features, only worse, and it was...ridiculous.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)04:19 No.14530419

    Hehe. I did something similar with the Arsenal rules.

    Same basis as well. It was done by a highly reguarded freelance weaponsmith/designer. The sammy got it at auction for 15000 nuyen. Very sweet gun it was.

    What was in this gun, exactly?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)04:21 No.14530431
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    Protip: Take a marker to your six-siders (white dots), and color the 5s and 6s. Color them red to make the game go fasta.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)04:28 No.14530479

    This is a good idea. I'll see if I can dig up some coloured dice to that effect.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)04:31 No.14530493
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    Uh, basicly like I said. Alpha. So, 'nade launcher, some more recoil comp, (6 total), a few other odds and ends.

    Over all, just...worse. I think it even had a shorter range, and less bullets....

    I was playing Spliter Cell at the time, and sat down to replicate that. I...uh, failed, and then relised the Alpha was pretty much everything I wanted.

    Felt kinda...dumb.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)04:32 No.14530500

    Shade in the 2,3, and 4. Make the 1 like black, or something. Glitches, yo.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)04:40 No.14530552

    I don't really want to damage my dice, though. I use them for other games.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)04:56 No.14530646
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    Are defensive implants (bone lacing/bone density augmentation for extra body and unarmed damage and dermal plates/orthoskin for extra armour) worth their price and essence cost or is it bettter to invest the money and essence elsewhere?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)05:10 No.14530741
    Short version; Yes

    Long version; depends on your character, are you the in the midst of battle guy who is probably going to get shot at? then yeah its nice to have, if you are the rigger, its always fun to have some padding while you wake up from getting shot while controlling a drone. if you are a mage, so much, that essence is important to you!
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)06:50 No.14531323
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    Depends what you are. Want to be the Body 10 Troll who won't even suffer dice modifiers from damage until he's already down? Want him to walk off a missile? Yeah. Your Essence is all invested in cyber- and bioware.

    Are you anyone who is going to be in the area where shooting occurs? Hell, it can't hurt unless you're a magic user - in their case, that Essence is tied up elsewhere. Just about everyone without magical potential can and likely should fit some damage comp into their meaty frames somehow. It's almost always a wise investment.
    >> Vidaman 04/09/11(Sat)06:56 No.14531363
    I think I see that weird axe-pistol-thing from the second Blade film in the back of that pick...
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)06:58 No.14531375

    Mm, speaking of: I'm presently attempting to cook up a trolltank in 4E. Body 10, Synthecardium, Bone Lacing, Tough as Nails, all that jazz... what I'm trying to figure out is, would going with cyberlimbs be more advantageous than the original meat? I'm thinking a torso and the arms, suitably pumped stats-wise, might be more durable than flesh.

    Aside from that, I'm also trying to think of ways to dish out a lot of damage in addition to taking it, and for the life of me I can't remember which enhancement it is that allows you to soak Physical damage as Stun temporarily. Anyone have any suggestions?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)07:16 No.14531463
    Firstly cyberlimbs are bad for trolls.

    Trauma Damper
    Platelet Factories (2nd hand if possible)
    Bone Density Augmentation (4) (2nd hand )
    Othoskin (3) (2nd hand or Dermal plating is fine too)

    Is my soak gear of choice these, high body and some armour stacking leads to a character which can wade though full auto fire.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)07:29 No.14531512
    >> Firstly cyberlimbs are bad for trolls.

    >> Customized cyberlimbs come with Body, Strength, and Agility attributes that may exceed the standard cyberlimb attribute rating of 3. Each customized cyberlimb may have a starting Body, Strength, and Agility attribute of up to the character’s natural attribute maximum
    >> Each point of increment to an attribute above 3 raises the limb’s Availability rating by 1 point and adds 1,500¥ to the final cost

    More accurately, cheap cyberlimbs are bad for trolls ...
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)07:47 No.14531570
    am i the only one who really cares about how detectable my augmentation is?

    I would for instance, never really consider metal bone lacing or wire reflexes (unless beta at least).

    I m just really paranoid about that kinda thing. I see it as taking money from a loan-shark. Short term benefit with long term bad consequences and the added chance of short term bad things happening.

    Sure my toons wont match up to a 0.1 essence sammy at char-gen-time but down the road its a different matter all-together.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)07:55 No.14531592
    Wires unfortunatly are a must the other options are too expensive.

    I choose bioware over cyber most the time. Its like delta for alphaware prices.
    >> Vidaman 04/09/11(Sat)07:59 No.14531606
    Cyberlimbs are more detectable then wired reflexes and bone lacing actually.
    Even realistic-looking cyberlimbs look and feel fake close-up, though synthskin helps that a lot.
    >> Vidaman 04/09/11(Sat)08:02 No.14531620
    Honestly, if you get the right ware at the beginning, it's not necessary to "upgrade" later in the video-gamey fashion.
    I've found that that eventually causes Essence loss to become too significant to deal with, without closely monitoring the situation.
    Instead you just need to pick useful ware, and then focus on having good skills and attributes.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)08:09 No.14531645
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    Dunno about wired reflexes, but move by wire seems to be possibly the best way to invest your money and essence, because itt's basicaly superior version of wired reflexes that grants you +2 reaction and +1 donge skill per level and on top of that it has skillwires integrated in it, which make it not only powerfull, but also awesome. There is no excuse not to invest those 22 bp and half of your essence to get move by wire II and if you feel the need to conserve your essence, you can get in as alphaware, which is large investmeent for starting character, but it will cost you, if you have biocompatibility:cyberware only 2,16 essence. If you manage to convice your GM to let you have adapsin, even wizard can afford to have this technology implanted.

    I just had a small orgasm thinking about howw awesome Move-by-wire system is.
    >> Vidaman 04/09/11(Sat)08:21 No.14531705
    I always get that stupid wankery but vital Type-O Cells advantage.
    Basically it just means for whatever reason your character is hypercompatible with cybernetics and bioware of all types. It's expensive (30BP) but it means all implants count as Delta-grade, so you don't loose much Essence.
    One of my favorite characters ever was a clone of a Type-O cell donor who was basically created so they could harvest his organs and base biotech organs off of his cloned cells, marketing it as a "new, Essence-friendly" form of bioware.
    He got away away and the corp wanted him back because he was a potential political relations nightmare.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)08:58 No.14531949
    dont move by wire systems work by having the body in a constant state of arrested seizure? I seem to vaguely recollect them giving you a nasty-ass syndrome after a while.

    Also, easy to scan combined with being illegal is a problem. I mean sure you can get a fake permit, but that wont prevent the problems.

    "yes, I realize I cant arrest you for trying to get that into the building, but I m gonna prevent you from entering, and I ll be watching you from now on." Having a permit for a handgun these days doesnt mean you can tote it around in public without being harassed and scrutinized.

    I guess what I mean is that the stories I was used to running back in the day had more of a focus on the non-combat non-sneaky parts. Obvious cyberware / easily detectable cyberware was a major hindrance most of the time.

    My favorite character was a detective-ish type with very high skill levels and minimal cyberware. Favored a silenced pistol. More of a jamesbondy kinda guy (sean connery one). As I recall he had a delta smartlink, a datajack, boosted reflexes and a trauma damper.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)09:01 No.14531965
    It's actually not all types of cyber / bioware. Just basic non-cultured bioware. (check it, there's two types of bioware)
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)09:03 No.14531974
    Not in 4e / 2070. It just says you get tremors sometimes. (so I'd say brain surgery is out)
    If you want it to get worse than that, there's negative qualities you can take. (iirc)
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)09:06 No.14531998
    All these movies to get in the Shadowrun spirit mentions and no ne has said Reservoir Dogs and The Usual Suspects?

    Ok it could just be my group that tends to end up that way.
    >> Vidaman 04/09/11(Sat)09:06 No.14532000
    Yeah, that has come up. It's a good idea to have at least one party member focused on investigation, diplomacy and information gathering, and perhaps with not much cyberware.
    If the whole party is filled with combat monsters, their operation abilities are rather pidgeonholed.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)09:29 No.14532167
    I prefer a cybered up face PC (but apparently less geared for combat, should someone come up with a millimetre wave scanner) & a separate low key / high grade bioware covert ops guy.

    I like Burn Notice. Tried watching Leverage, and the actors just shit me.
    Gattaca, Virtuosity, Videodrome, Cherry 2000, Strange Days & Brazil come to mind as related (to varying degrees) movies.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)09:34 No.14532197

    How could I forget Burn Notice. That series reminded me of Shadowrun from the begining and was how we got a friend of mine interested in Shadowrun. I have to say I only watched the first series though so it may have ended up going bad like so many tv shows.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)09:43 No.14532256
    i dont like overspecializing. Nothing personal, to each his own. I just feel its been done to death in the rpg genre. I prefer playing generalists "with a focus" and "room to grow".

    Having some maxed out face character with lots of face-cyberware wouldnt appeal to me. Hence why my "detective character" had a modicum of street sammy capability (smartlink, boosted reflexes and a damper wont let him go toe to toe with a badass but will make him plenty nasty vs a lot of things).

    hell later on he could even help out with some light decking work. A datajack and a cheap deck is technincally enough to mess with some nightclubs booking list for example. No need to bother the party "specialist" when shes getting her nails done.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)10:06 No.14532382

    Type 0 is for bioware only. And it eats up almost all of your positive quality points.

    And they're not a special sort of bioware in the way you're thinking of.

    Regular bioware is in fact type O. They're all cloned from samples of subject O. Guy called Oscar, lived years ago. Found out he had a special immune system, meant that his organs could be transplanted into anyone with low chance of rejection.

    Off the shelf bioware is his organs cloned.

    Being type O means that you have what he had. That essentially all bioware is (more or less) your own flesh, cloned. That's what makes it low-essence.


    Bone density is excellent, the other types count against your armour encumbrance, so they're generally not worth it. Platlet factories and trauma dampner's are excellent for soaking if you can afford them.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)10:10 No.14532420
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    If you want a more psychologically Shadowrunish series, try Black Lagoon. It really helped me get into the brain of someone dumped in the Shadows.
    >> Vidaman 04/09/11(Sat)10:13 No.14532442
    This is good advice. The diversity of personalities in the main cast really is a lot like a runner team's often is.
    One is the corporate guy down on his luck, one is the cool Vet who is trying to get by, one is the hacker/technomancer/whatever who ran afoul of the law, and one is the psycho who doesn't know any other way to live.
    And Balalaika is an excellent example of how you can make your gangsters both sociable characters and also complete monsters at the same time.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)10:17 No.14532463
    Owen, Molly. O for Owen.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)10:19 No.14532476

    I have a character I've based on Rock. It's a variant of the Mr Lucky archtype. I'm waiting for a chance to use it.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)10:19 No.14532478
    And you'd better believe I'm going to be thinking, "You just got Owened!" when Tamanous gets wind of the condition and removes all those profitable organs ...
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)10:21 No.14532492
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    I've been really interested in Shadowrun lately. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone to play with. Are there any online groups? Could we maybe start one?

    I've also had an idea for a character. Some kind of forger/fixer/con man kind of guy. Like Ash from Hustle (pic related). Is it possible to combine a little face ("I was sent to check your security. Oh, my, this will not look good in my report."), some hacking ("Yes, I am from this company, check out their site.") and some forging ("Yes, I'm from [security company], here to look at your alarm systems.") in one character? If so, what are some things to look out for? (Skills, ware, etc.)
    >> Vidaman 04/09/11(Sat)10:26 No.14532538
    Fixer is pretty easy to do, you just need to put some skills in diplomatic abilities like Negotiation and other social active skills.
    Security skills are also a must: there's lots of cool non-cyberware gadgets one can use to make a character aware of everything very easily.
    Hacking is trickier: it's highly expensive because you have to pay to upgrade your commlink/deck (depending on what edition), and also for the individual programs, there's a lot of prep involved.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)10:27 No.14532545
    Take a high agility character and a few ranks in forgery. Add etiquette, some charisma, tailored pheromones & a vocal range enhancer.
    Cracking & stealth skill groups. (though the latter is more of a personal choice, it also runs off agility)
    You'll also be at least semi-decent with weapons as an added bonus.
    >> Vidaman 04/09/11(Sat)10:30 No.14532573
    Also, being an elf helps with this stuff in mind, if you want.
    They have higher agility and charisma, and in-universe are generally thought of somewhat more highly then other metatypes, and his fixer/face elements can focus on this stereotype, as it helps with the early first impression.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)10:37 No.14532630

    The influence skill group, grab an extra 2 ranks in con, with a specialisation in either impersonation or fast-talk.

    Bioware wise, you might take tailored pheremones, to give you the edge when you're convincing people.

    Knowledge skills would also be useful, for social engineering, so possibly the trade school, colledge education, or school of hard knocks qualities (give you a +1 in professional, academic, or street knowledge skills respectively) could be useful.

    Mnemonic Enhancers improve your memory massively. Good for skimming data, or remembering that vital fact you need to complete your disguise.

    Spend a bit of contacts as well. A hacker contact might actually be easier than doing it yourself. Give him a cut, and make him high loyalty, and you have a valuable NPC ally.

    If you're doing him hustle style, get a bunch of varied outfits as well, classy as well as casual.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)10:40 No.14532650
    The BnE gear section has plenty of stuff. Maglock passkeys, keycode hackers, lockpicks, palm-glove copiers, keycard copiers.

    The Electronics skill group gives you good civilian computer skills like hardware (breaking through physical security stuff), as well as data search and computer (good for general computer manipulation).

    The cracking skill group is also easy to get, and with a few key programs, could be quite useful. I'd say farm that out to a team hacker, and just carry a repeater or something.

    RFID sensor tags are also useful, for gathering data or listening in on conversations.

    Cyberear Sound Filters allow you to listen in on convasations in ambient noise-rich areas, as does a cybereye laser microphone.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)10:43 No.14532665

    It did in 3ed, in 4th it's more fluff.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)10:43 No.14532671
    >> The influence skill group, grab an extra 2 ranks in con, with a specialisation
    You can't do either of those after buying a skill group at chargen.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)10:47 No.14532701
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    Thanks! So it's basically quite commonsense stuff. On a related note: how difficult is it to 'spoof life' in the 2070s? I like the idea of living expensive (hotel penthouses) at a risk, but the Unwired rules make it almost seem like a day job.

    Any other cool ideas? Or game groups? Pic kinda related.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)10:47 No.14532703

    You may, with GM permission, break a skill group at Chargen. You do not benefit from the group discount until it is equalised, when you spend karma post-chargen.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)10:48 No.14532707

    In the unwired book, threshholds are given for hacking a given lifestyle.

    With a bit of hacking skill, and a fair bit of time, you could hack yourself a high lifestyle.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)10:49 No.14532715
    How is SR4e these days?

    Can mages still summon Spirits so powerful they make the group largely irrelevant straight from character creation?

    Can Trolls still use Bows so powerful they'd dent a tank?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)10:50 No.14532723
    >> You do not benefit from the group discount until it is equalised
    Can you point to a page number for this in AE?
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)10:51 No.14532733


    Still dangerous at high force, but the mage'd be taking a fair bit of drain, and large spirits attract attention. And they're still killable.


    Yes, they can do massive damage, but generally a full-auto burst will do more, or hit more targets.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)10:52 No.14532745
    Mook Agents. Never tried it and never did the math for it, but you might be able to get your GM to allow them to work together to full-time hack your lifestylez.
    >> Magus O'Grady 04/09/11(Sat)11:00 No.14532802
    original Ocean's Eleven or the mediocre remake?

    Also, I'd tack a few flicks onto that list: The Professional, Boondock Saints, Maltese Falcon (any old noir flick will do), Catch Me if You Can, Training Day, and that one spy flick with Brad Pit where he's a CIA agent who gets captured.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)11:03 No.14532826

    It's a somewhat ambiguous point, but 265 in regular.

    It mentions if it gets broken, then from that point onwards they're counted as separate, implying that you could level them as a group, then break when you needed.

    UPDATE: Turns out you can't. FAQ from their website clarifies it. Well, fuck that. Ask your GM if you can, it's a reasonable thing to do.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)11:08 No.14532856

    There's millions of related films.

    As I said earlier:

    >Ocean's 11 I included for the generally fun, criminal capers feel of it. A bunch of skilled, slightly dysfunctional people get together to stick it to the man and get rich in the process. Hilarity Ensures.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)11:14 No.14532903
    If your mage can make the group irrelevant in the first place, your GM is a pussy and a retard who doesn't know how to provide challenging runs.
    If your mage tries to make the group irrelevant instead of buffing them, he's a shitcock retard who cannnot into teamplay and doesn't realize the full potential of a group functioning as a well-oiled machine of annihilation.
    It's bloody obvious that a magically pumped-up mage cannot compete with a magically pumped-up street sam.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)11:30 No.14533031

    Force is a really bad thing to try to minmax into in SR. The GM can call down so many unpleasant things that are entirely setting-reasonable that it doesn't end well.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)12:00 No.14533249
    Personally, I've never had trouble with min-maxers. That's mainly because I have a group of fantastic roleplayers, though.

    Honestly, I had one mage who used spirit possession to subdue the street sam on the team (can't remember what it was, just some kind of dispute). And for the next hour, I kicked back in my chair and watched them debate what had just happened - if it was appropriate to attack another member of the team, if they can trust a mage who gives himself up to hocus pocus, the sudden conflict between the mage and the street sam...

    I tend to go look at a character and say, "Okay, you have these holes, but they're acceptable. Be aware of the flaws and use them just as much as their strengths." It makes the game far, far more dramatic, even if it is a touch heavy-handed.

    *shrug* My $0.02.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)12:03 No.14533271
    Ok. 68 in AE leads me to believe that once you break a group, you're paying the full price unless you're blowing your GM.
    84 says as much in other words.
    >> Skill groups may not be broken up into individual skills for further improvement and specializations may not be taken for skill group skills at character creation—although, as always, individual gamemasters are free to allow this option.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)12:03 No.14533272

    It's a social contract, like most other RPGs.

    It becomes a problem when you have a group that has a few powergamers, and a few non-powergamers.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)12:05 No.14533291
    Has anyone seen Renaissance? Black & White CG cyberpunk movie.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)12:14 No.14533352

    >individual gamemasters are free to allow this option.

    So, it's exactly as I said an hour or so ago?
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)12:15 No.14533355

    I've not. What's it like? Black and White is a bit of an odd move for Cyberpunk.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)12:21 No.14533408
    Pretty much, except that there's no 'unbreaking' a skill group by default. Not everyone uses optional rules, and I don't see the point in this one.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)12:25 No.14533447

    Of course there's a point.

    If I want to make a master of disguise, then I don't want to be inconvenienced seriously by having to spend a crapload more points in buying 4 skills individually, when the group splitting is just to get the reasonable concept.

    74 vs 50 bp. Far from nothing. The nosplitting rule makes little sense if it's to a reasonable end.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)12:26 No.14533459
    >> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386741/

    I wasn't blown away, but it was memorable enough, provided you don't mind the monochrome.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)12:28 No.14533483
    Right. Personally, I see that as less of a point and more of a way to squeeze yet more BPs from an already tightly squeezed source.
    >> Vidaman 04/09/11(Sat)12:29 No.14533488
    It's very cool.
    It's closer to Blade Runner then the Matrix. Very low-key with a few tense, frantic moments, focused on the mystery before the protagonists with lots of subtle characterization and quiet moments.
    The black and white is a call back to film noir aesthetic a lot of cyberpunk works draw from i assume.
    >> Vidaman 04/09/11(Sat)12:32 No.14533511
    I have. The animation threw off a lot of people, but I think it's highly underrated, and closer in execution to Blade Runner then pretty much every other cyberpunk film made.
    Usually they end up being action films more or less.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)12:33 No.14533517

    If it stands in the way of sensible chargen, then ditch it.

    If you can't break it, then it's much harder to do characters with extra personal touches, like snipers, or con-artists, or intrusion specialist types. For one, it's much harder to justify variations in hacker skills. In those cases, just taking the regular 4 in Electronics and Cracking is the best option. If splitting is possible, then you can add a bit more variation between hackers through increasing stuff like hacking over cybercombat, etc.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)12:35 No.14533533
    To be more specific, at chargen the game says; you can be awesome at one skill, bringing it up to 6. Or you can be less awesome with two skills at 5. Skill groups max out at 4.

    And it vaguely represents something that makes sense from a character perspective, rather than a hypothetical minmaxing attempt - given three people and a 24 hours for each, I could teach more to someone who asked about a specific rpg than a genre of rpgs, and more of a genre than the entire range of rpgs that I've ever played.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)12:44 No.14533604
    >> The black and white is a call back to film noir aesthetic a lot of cyberpunk works draw from i assume.
    Reminded me of the cover of Electric Church (book, though it has a funky website for 5 seconds of distraction) ... pity the sequel sucked so much ass.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)12:46 No.14533629

    Yeah, I know that. What I'm talking about is leaving the rest of the skillgroup up to 4, and then leaving them there, and leveling just 1 skill up to 6. A specialisation within the field, to differentiate me from all the other face types that have 4 in Influence.

    And for your analogy, I would rebutt by saying that once they have a good grounding in that genre, then giving them a REALLY good understanding of one specific RPG within that genre would be comparatively easy.

    Once you know nWoD, learning that little more to excell in vampire isn't that hard, although there are less generalities than there are learning the nWoD line generic facts.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)12:57 No.14533718
    It depends on what kind of force and how you apply it.
    A buffed sam with spirit aid can be used to kill everything in sight or to sneak in unnoticed and knock everyone out with slab/läel capsule rounds IF he still gets spotted.
    >> SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo 04/09/11(Sat)12:57 No.14533719

    This would be the non stupid idea.


    I'm personally a fan of the Blood Circuit Control System from Augmentation.


    The first I've never seen be a problem. But yes, trollbow builds are still around.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)13:00 No.14533742

    To give a bit of evidence to THAT particular discussion, I'm presently GMing a SR4th game that's been going for about 6 months.

    The two big damage dealers in the group are a human assault rifle sammy, and a rebar-throwing troll adept (javelins refluffed as rebar, he has improvised throwing mastery).

    Generally, the sammy will be racking up a higher body count, though the troll has a slight advantage against hardened targets.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)13:16 No.14533855
    >> A specialisation within the field, to differentiate me from all the other face types that have 4 in Influence.
    I thought it was to specify ability in a narrow field. Differentiation within a skill is a non-point, as far as I'm concerned.

    Yes, you could teach them more,given more time. But for the analogy, that's like asking for karma in the middle of chargen.
    The analogy isn't perfect - you might play an 85 year old starting runner or a 6 month old fast-tracked clone, but the general idea is that fresh runners all start roughly equal (400BPs equal) in terms of previous knowledge. You could also make the counterpoint that it's relatively easy to get learning software in SR - which I'd counter by pointing out how standardised the software is. (and likely the education system of 2030+)
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)13:22 No.14533894
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    Ok, so. The face of our group just read the plan.

    She loves it.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)13:22 No.14533899

    >teach more, given time.

    Or as SR4 represents it, BP.

    I'm still spending 10 more BP than I would than if I was content with 4 in everything.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)13:33 No.14533976
    However long the in-game time was before your character's first session, it's still 400BP.
    So no, spending more of that BP on skills at a reduced cost rate approved by the GM doesn't equate to more time.

    It equates to a 25 hour day for the guy who chose to learn everything.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)13:38 No.14534021

    Excellent, i'm glad she approves of it.

    Oh, and my calculations sucked. It'd actually be doing around 2625 damage, if you really had 30 tonnes of rating 15.

    Specific damage is difficult to model, given the possible variations in things like tamping, chunky salsa effect, etc, but seeing as the average skyscraper'll around 16 armour and 13 structure points per 1x1x0.1 area of floor, we can be confident that serious damage will be ensured.

    Explosives double their damage against structure point things, so around 5200 base damage will be dealt against the structure.

    With that in mind, 1733 sections of floor 1x1 would be destroyed, assuming uniformity of strength, and 1 foot thick floors and ceilings.

    Assuming you get a decent degree of penetration with the shipping container (assisted by the pre-launch rocket), you should easily be able to destroy a section of building around 12 floors vertially, going in and across 20 meters or so. I'm assuming that despite part of the blast being wasted by the non-central location, the contained nature of the blast on the inside would make up for it. We might actually get a better effect, if we armoured one end of the shipping container, so it blew in a more internal fashion.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)13:39 No.14534031

    He's not spending it at a reduced cost, he's gaining those final two skill ranks at regular cost.

    He's done his comprehensive degree in Infuenceology, now he's doing his honour's year in Con. Regular time + a bit extra.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)13:39 No.14534032
    ... No, it really is time to sleep. Just read that twice.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)13:46 No.14534090
    What gave you the idea that Lofwyr doesn't have Force 12+ spirits with Detect Explosives scanning the entire area?
    Seems like the most reasonable thing to do for a dragon who has to watch out for assassination attempts, and who can easily have more than half a dozen bound high-force spirits, in addition to tons of spells anchored on him, several high-grade sustaining foci, all spells known to metahumankind and then some, a small army of bodyguards and an entire branch of corpsec dedicated to thorough background checks on the entire area (this is assuming that you try to hit at some random SK location, where Lofwyr may or may not be present at a given day. Don't even think to pull that thing off at his lair in the RhR sprawl).
    By the time the container arrives, SK is already busy tearing you a new one, if you don't end up like those runners who tried to break into a MCT Zero Zone facility and where killed while they where still busy just observing the building to come up with a plan for the run.
    I'm not saying it won't work, but when you go up against the most powerful individual in the 6th world, odds are good you'll go down fighting even if your plan seems perfect.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)13:48 No.14534109

    This is the issue with fighting dragons. They're horrifically powerful.

    This is why the Thor Shot plan would be comparatively easier.

    The fact that it's operated through a rival company might actually help you, as any attempts to find out the internal situation at Ares will be limited by their internal security.

    Once you HAVE your hands on the Thor Shot, it becomes comparatively simple.

    Actually, unleashing Horror's on the bugger might be easier. They do eat magic, after all.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)13:54 No.14534154
    This group's face here

    Worth it to see Lofwyr's face when he realises it's about a truck.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)14:27 No.14534401
    Problem with Thor shots : they need several minutes to reach their location.
    As soon as your target realizes there's one incomming (which is conceivable in such a situation), he can try to get out of the blast zone.
    Thor shots are great to blow up structures, but they fare poorly at hitting flying creatures who can rely on the Movement power anytime.
    Lofwyr can travel at supersonic speeds with the kind of spirit backup he gets, a few seconds of warning time would be enough to reach a safe distance from the blast.


    I like that attitude.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)14:32 No.14534444

    How would he realise that a slug of metal is hurtling towards him?

    If they can maim Hestaby with massed fighter jets, then a near-undetectable RKW can certainly fuck him up, particularly if he's in human form.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)14:36 No.14534474
    What could work would be setting up a situation like the Thor shot scenario and hit Lofwyr while he tries to get away from the blast site.
    You could theoretically kill a great dragon with a few well-placed shots from a large railgun, or a howitzer.
    The issue here is that it's hard to aim at a target who's possibly protected by all kinds of illusion spells, Combat Sense, Concealment etc.

    He'd be easily visible on the astral, though.
    His aura would most likely be masked, but you'd still have something visible on the astral flying away from the target site at high speeds.
    One idea that was floating around on ds for a while was to use several dual-sighted spotters who have target designators strapped to their heads so that you can triangulate the target in the physical world while they are aiming at it on the astral.
    Simultaneously, Mana Static could be used to at least weaken the dragon's defenses.
    Then, a squad of t-birds hits him with their main guns from a safe distance.
    Or they just hit some decoy that flies in another direction.
    It's not that a being with Logic in the double digit range couldn't think of plans like this in advance.
    >> Molly !P4yus5IzL2 04/09/11(Sat)14:41 No.14534512

    He's got a rating 12 invisibility spell and a rating 12 radar absorbent spell on him.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)14:43 No.14534523
    It's not that hard to notice a 15 meter thungsten alloy meteor coming down.
    It's a safe bet that the airspace above Lofwyr gets monitored 24/7, someone would spot the thing if you don't take care of that as well.
    Like i said, he could be at a safe distance in one combat turn.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)14:43 No.14534524
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    nice quads
    >> Anonymous 04/09/11(Sat)17:20 No.14535752
    Man, my group spent almost 3 hours trying to figure out how to kill their target in a subtle way. Last session, the plan was to steal something like a Cessna an crash it into him, last night, once we figured out how to pin him down, a half dozen slap patches disguised on a latex glove and a flashbang distraction from a "third party" meant we got paid for our mark dying of a tragically fatal heart attack that looks natural.

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