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  • File : 1302071322.jpg-(70 KB, 400x500, Secundus2.jpg)
    70 KB SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)02:28 No.14491925  
    Emperor's Nightmare, thread 8. Let's do what we do best, /tg/

    Topics currently in discussion

    1. Finishing off the Deathwatch rules
    2. Special Characters and other things for the Fandex
    3. Write, draw and lore-faggotry
    4. Whatever I inevitably missed.

    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)02:33 No.14491966
    Copy-pasta, last part is mine but the previous thread hit auto sage...

    How would the Grey Knights react to he Emperor's Nightmares?

    "Right. You fight Daemons in your dreams. Yeah, I got you."

    "No, we totally do! Our Librarians can do that because we get help from the Scholastica Psykana! Really!"

    "Yeah, I'm gonna, go...over there somwhere."

    "Nobody believes me! Why doesn't anybody believe me?"

    "When was the last time you slept again?"

    "Five months, two weeks, three days, seventeen hours, thirty-two minutes and eleven seconds, why?"

    "Oh, nothing, just asking..."

    "Are you making fun of me? I know the others talk about me behind my back, I can hear them sometimes, they say unkind things about my hair..."

    "No, no, what would make you think that?"

    *The Emperors Nightmare marine mutters darkly to himself* "... but I'll show them, I'll show them all..."

    "What was that, brother?"

    "Nothing, nothing at all... I've gotta run, I can hear Watch-Captain Ulfrik asking for me." *Eyes darting left and right, the Emperors Nightmare marine takes off in a sprint*

    "But... Watch-Captain Ulfrik has been dead for over twenty years now..."
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)02:35 No.14491989

    Loving it, loving it!
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)02:39 No.14492012
    It was mentioned in the last thread scouts could be made into secondus marines. Can you elaborate SC guy?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)02:41 No.14492022

    Can do. Basically, scouts are scouts, they're unchanged, they're your bread and butter infiltrating carapace-toting badass initiates. But, for a fair price, you can upgrade them to Secundus Operatives. This gives them WS4, BS4, and power armour...And they keep all the advantages of being Scouts, and get access to Darkfire rounds for their Sniper Rifles as an optional extra.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)02:42 No.14492029
    I'd love to see Icelus developed more as a Dark Heresy setting.

    It's a hive world so it gets a fair amount of traffic. There's plenty of reason for rogue traders to stop by to purchase and sell rare minerals and other wares. Ways to include space marine characters are obvious.

    The ash wastes techno-shamans, the resentful underhive population that still remembers the sleepless dreadnought that ravaged their community, the gangs smuggle stimulants from hive to hive... all of this has the making of a GREAT dark heresy campaign.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)02:42 No.14492032
    Thanks, sitting down and actually write-fagging a story is not my forte but amusing conversations are something I can do.

    Did anybody ever do a banner or something for the Nightmares or did only the Chapter symbol get finished (and agreed upon) ?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)02:43 No.14492038
    Still want to see someone take a crack at drawing that chapter banner. Need to go take a shower, then I'll see about uploading what I had for it.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)02:45 No.14492052

    Agreed. I tried to open the setting up a bit with my story, The Underhive, but little stories like that barely scratch the surface of this great backdrop we've landed ourselves with. You know you're onto something when you manage to even make the PDF potentially interesting.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)02:47 No.14492070
    Someone did a couple sketches of a company banner iirc but that's it

    and the chapter symbol could use with an upgraded drawing. The one we have now is pretty basic. That's good for copying into Dawn of War I guess but someone drawfagging up a more ornate and gothic picture for the owlglass would be cool.

    I also like the other symbol associated with the chapter: the two headed owl with one head blindfolded and asleep, the other head alert and watchful, the wings spread like an aquila and the claws clutching an hourglass. IIRC that was the original chapter symbol but is now the heraldry of the Night Owls. I'd love to see some ornate drawings and banners and shit of that too if anyone feels inspired
    >> Brother Maximilian 04/06/11(Wed)02:47 No.14492072
    I compile most stuff I find amusing into Images like this for ease of sorting and re-posting, I wrote this just as the last thread died so I hope nobody minds if I re-post it here

    If anyone could give me some thoughts on how it came out I'd appreciate it, this is only my second real act of writefaggotry
    >> Brother Maximilian 04/06/11(Wed)02:53 No.14492110
         File1302072824.jpg-(770 KB, 1328x2644, Brother Maximilian.jpg)
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    For crying out loud I forgot the image, this is the writefaggotry I was talking about
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)02:54 No.14492115

    It's nice for a second try, keep it up.

    It's nearly 8AM here, and I'm once again getting a brief glimpse of just why the Sleepless go insane, but I'll keep going. Inspiration is a strong thing.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)02:56 No.14492134
    I'll see what I can do, since I'm spending the hour train-ride sketching most of the time anyway I might as well make myself useful.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)02:56 No.14492139
    It didn't really feel like an _Emperor's Nightmare_ story until the very end, but you tied it together. I'd say work on being more concise if anything. It's something I struggle with too. I think most people who write do.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)03:01 No.14492177
         File1302073317.jpg-(294 KB, 1196x956, Story222.jpg)
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    To hell with it, I may as well post my own part of the writefaggotry explosion during the death of the previous thread. Thoughts, anyone?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:02 No.14492178
    Isn't it remarkable how every single Emperor's Nightmare thread inspires sleepless nights among the res/tg/uardians? That and all the 666 posts. It's all oddly appropriate. Makes these threads feel special y'know?

    Cool bro. If there's one thing this project needs it's more art.

    If you're super bored and want to be a double-bro feel free to sketch some icelus dreads doing various badass things. That imagery is a huge goldmine just waiting to be created...
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:05 No.14492197
    Goes to show how cool the nightmares actually are.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:09 No.14492229
         File1302073749.jpg-(157 KB, 700x560, Dreadnought2.jpg)
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    Here's some art of a slightly lighter looking pre-heresy dread. Seems about right for an icelus if everything were master-crafted to be more nimble. Remade ball joints and suchlike.

    I like the porcupine sensor quills and mechadendrite dreadlocks on the icelus aesthetically. There's something really cool about a surveillance dreadnought peering around corners with optical mechadendrites and burrowing into the ground to deploy crazy auspex gear from their back.

    That's just nifty damnit. And the stummer cone... goddamn that's creepy.

    <3 icelus dreadnoughts.

    I am totally gay for this machine.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:12 No.14492253
    "This planet...its too vivid" muttered Vericles we all felt it, the star here was too bright the trees to uniform in their position, even for an agri-world, and the air tasted of excitement...heresy ran rampant around here and we've been tasked on helping the local Guard help root it out

    stalking through the undergrowth chasing shadows left us agitated and it was starting to show, the newest intiate, Caliph actively voiced the concern we were all thinking "What if the Sleep claims us before we can do glory to the Emperor in this Realm" the Captain hushed him and motioned us forward, theres movement in the clearing ahead.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:14 No.14492262
    These are my favourite kinds of stories with the Nightmares. I love the sleepless and I love rogue sleepless even more. I'm a fan of the really dangerous ones though like the walking dead librarians.

    It should be emphasized that the whole "sleepless got lose and murdered a city" isn't common, the Nightmare apothecaries are very vigilant about these things, it's just that it's a constant threat so they have to be very, VERY careful, and these are just all the stories of the few times one has escaped and caused serious havoc over the centuries.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)03:19 No.14492292

    Oh, naturally it's a rarity. But when they DO get away it takes an entire specialist squad headed up by a Night Owl to retrieve or kill them. At least.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:20 No.14492294
    >The Initiate

    "It's a beautiful thing, isn't it?" The marine turned the blossom over, surprisingly gentle despite his armored hand. The boy could only nod. Beaten, exhausted, and nursing a broken arm, he had clambered tooth and claw to victory and was the first victor--possibly the only one--this year.
    "Like this world. Bright. Beautiful. Something worth fighting for." The aspirant agreed.
    The massive battle-brother looked at the flower in his massive hand.
    He clenched.
    For a moment the shock numbed him. Then, with a wail, began to hammer the marine's leg in tearful fury.
    The astartes gazed down on the boy. He couldn't be more than twelve. Let him have this, he decided. It will be his last outburst.
    Finally, pain racking the child's form, his blows relented and he sank to the ground, still clutching feebly at the marine's kneeplate.
    "Understand," the Nightmare said through the vox, his helmet impassive as stone, "That you could no longer be part of this beautiful world. Understand that you, like this flower, were pulled from your home, and could no longer grow. Understand," he finished, "that you have given your share of this life to protect the whole. This is your sacrifice. Bear it with pride... brother."

    Manly tears for that kid.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:27 No.14492334

    ;______; y do tha good mehren young.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:28 No.14492339
    so dark heresy ideas.

    a party of stimm smugglers running the ash wastes gauntet between hives, evading patrols of marine controlled PDF, allying with one techno-shamanic nomad tribe over another, selling their stimms to spoiled daughters of hive nobility and ruthless gang leaders in the underhive alike.

    could be cool...
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:32 No.14492369
         File1302075142.jpg-(77 KB, 640x480, watcher-sleeper-dreamer.jpg)
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    Man, nothing's quite as great as refreshing the thread and seeing something you wrote posted.

    This was the really bad rough of the banner. Original notes:
    This is a complete mess. I haven't slept. The banner's too wide. I drew it on a soft surface, freehand instead of with a ruler. I used a dull pencil. Hell, I don't even have my scanner hooked up, so I used a webcam. But I had to get this down before I forgot it.
    A hypothetical proposal for the Emperor's Nightmare Fifth Company banner.
    The details, as I envisioned them, in no particular order.
    1: A golden owl perched atop the banner.
    2: WATCHER - SLEEPER - DREAMER, symbolizing the body of the Emperor's ranks. On the left side, a Watcher, clear lines of fatigue beneath his open eye. On the right, a Sleeper, eyes closed to the Materium, and yet still armed to protect Man in his sleep. A Dreamer above, his eyes closed but a third eye radiant upon his forehead. And above, a stylized sunburst, and IMPERATOR. Watcher, Sleeper, and Dreamer, and the Emperor over all. The tips of their blades just meet, but never rise higher than, the sunbeam.
    3: Golden cord at the top corners of the banner, not unlike the edges of a flying carpet, a subtle callout to 1,001 Arabian nights.
    4: A stylized five in the center, with the helm of an astartes in the midst.

    There were a few good ideas for it suggested:
    Consider the Latin translations for more "High Gothic" feel:
    Watcher: Vigilo
    Sleeper: Quiesco
    Dreamer: Somnio

    > I watch - I sleep - I dream
    vigilo - dormio - somnio
    > Watcher - Sleeper - Dreamer
    servator - dormitator - somnitator
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:39 No.14492407
    I know eh? I was thrilled too when I saw people quoting some of my stuff last thread. It gives you such a warm feeling. I'm so proud of everything Anonymous has done for this project. It really is inspired.

    But that's exactly why we should all step up our game even further right? Now that we've made not just a chapter but an entire SETTING that is this awesome, we have a moral obligation to keep snowballing it until it can be its own dark heresy splatbook... right?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)03:39 No.14492409

    In the ruins of the Underhive there's still quite a lot of semi/intact works of very nice masonry and architecture, so nobles pay thugs to go down to the Underhive and gather pieces of art. This "stone trade" is worth a lot of money, the less scrupulous nobles would have the stones hollowed out and filled with contraband...Disguising a criminal network as a highborn eccentricity.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)03:40 No.14492424

    Oh, absolutely.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:44 No.14492446

    A company of mercenaries who profit off the Aspirant Trials. They are usually contracted by spire nobles to perform sabotage and murder, hampering the aspirants who could threaten their employer's child or stealing a rival family's only flower bulb from its closely guarded safe so that they cannot participate in the contests at all.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:47 No.14492468
    One thing to bring up that wasn't specified on the wiki:
    The flower that the aspirants have to bring to the Fortress-Monastery is the Night-Scented Gilliflower.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:53 No.14492500
    an eclectic band of scribes,PDF, administratum adepts, arbites crowd control specialists and even architects, directed and overseen by a trio of Nightmares who order them to tend to the organization of the trials: Travelling into the underhives to gift dangerous gangs with free weaponry, sending messengers to the various ash waste techno-shamanic clans to exacerbate tensions between them and so on. Dangerous work for a bunch of space-nerds.

    Oh right. Brought along with the original colonists from Terra. I remember that.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)03:58 No.14492520
    DAMN THIS INFERNAL CONTRAPTION thought Lily she recently picked up a small puzzlebox from one of the vendors in town while she was on leave and she regretted paying the two thrones for it. The only advice she got from the vendor was that we had to get all the colors to match and it wasnt hard.

    fraaaak him and his store, this thing is impos-"Excuse me, guardswoamn, might i be of assistance?" startled she looked up and lost her breath. standing in front of her was a MASSIVE man clad in a suit of power armor in a deep purple. squeaking in surprise she offers it to him and gently like a man picking up a baby plucks it out of her hand and examines it through powered lenses.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)04:09 No.14492567
    Brothers, I fear my time is up and I must quit the field.
    I rest in honor of and in spirit for those who no longer can find such solace.

    And I will bump this thread come the waking.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)04:10 No.14492573

    he looks at it for a moment, twisting it this way and that, before grunting, and sitting down next to her.

    "Tell me Guardswoman, have you dreamed lately?" he asked still fiddling with the box.

    shocked by such a strange question but didn't dare of refusing him she answered it.

    "Well i was back on my home planet of Scyth, me and my kids we were having a picnic, on top of a very pristine hilll overlooking Capital City" she stops for a moment, looking at the large hands deftly move the pieces around wondering what its like being able to crush a human being in those hands.

    'The area we chose had just the perfect amount of shade, broadcasted by a large tree on the summit of the hill. it was one of those places where you could sleep and forget about everything."

    "Ah sleep" the marine mutters "where you can be teleported into the past or into the future wherever you are needed or want to go, you'll be there"
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)04:22 No.14492630
         File1302078168.png-(45 KB, 484x494, OwlGlass.png)
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    here's a vector version of the Owlglass with some subtle improvements. Critiques obviously welcome.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)04:27 No.14492657
    someone wanna add the seventh archived thread to the wiki index? It's not up yet
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)04:28 No.14492658

    "What about you?" she asked "have you dreamed lately?"

    "Sadly no, me and my brethren, cannot call sleep to us. Instead it comes for us when it needs use for us. The last time i Dreamed was 4 months 5 days and 6 hours, but i remember it like it was yesterday." he says wistfully.

    "Tell me about it" she asked now intently watching him work on the puzzlebox.

    "Well" he started "i was standing out in the middle of nothingness, with only a small beam of light to lead me, all the while vile voices kept whispering to me promising me power ive never experienced before, as i start to walk down this path, the voices get angrier and angrier, verbally abusing me as i keep walking forward, finally it gets so bad that i fall down and cover my ears, to try and make it stop. Thats when I hear Him"

    "Him?" she inquires now staring at the emotionless mask of his visor

    in a whisper the Marine says "The Emperor, he told me that even though these voices are very loud and overwhelming, what they say isn't true, and that he loves me for taking up his cause and that he'll protect me as i fight his fallen sons, and the Vile Xenos."

    She sat there looking at him working on the puzzlebox for several minutes speechless, if the wrong person heard that he could be in trouble, that the emperor would talk to him above all else would get him shot!

    Finally after what seemed like ages, the space marine stands and moves to give back the puzzlebox.

    "No" she said motioning for him to keep it "You keep it, im no good at those"

    Grunting he closes his hand around it and starts walking away. Before he could get to far away the Guardswoman stands up and yells "MY NAME IS AMBER WHATS YOURS!?"

    Stopping, he turns around and says "I am Brother Ajax of the Emperor's Nightmares."
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)04:53 No.14492723
         File1302079993.png-(74 KB, 700x450, OwlGlass2.png)
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    Here's my updated version next to the current version.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)05:54 No.14492977
    There are rumours of a strange and enigmatic new leader among the scum of the underhives: A grief-hardened grandmother whose entire family was killed in the crossfire of a gang fight during the trials with weapons supplied by the Emperor's Nightmare. She is a fiery orator and is inciting the populace to riot.

    A special team of the Icelus PDF's best and brightest has been assembled to go undercover and root out this unstable element before she can incite a full scale rebellion in the planet's largest hive.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)07:09 No.14493387
         File1302088160.jpg-(59 KB, 397x500, cookie monster.jpg)
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    >science ichipu

    Yes captcha, we do it for Science!
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)07:17 No.14493435
    I still can't stop linking "Emperor's Nigtmare" with "Darwin's Nightmare" like it's a documentary about the catastrofic ramifications of adding space marines to an ecosystem.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)09:32 No.14494244
    Aaaand I fell asleep.


    Fair enough, refining the look is always good.

    Aaand bump.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:02 No.14494423
    The aspirant was sweating. We had to strap him to his bed to prevent him from clawing at his eyes. Whatever battle he was fighting, it was going poorly in his favor. Suddenly, he stopped moving. His breathing became shallow, his eyes stopped bleeding. He looked at me and said,

    "Last night I saw upon the stair
    A little man who wasn’t there
    He wasn’t there again today
    Oh, how I wish he’d go away."
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:04 No.14494434
    The sleeper has awakened.

    Anyone around to give >>14492369 a good attempt?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)10:09 No.14494468
    I've messed around with the Wiki, added the Primarch's Curse and a few stories in.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:10 No.14494473
    So it's sort of like the Nightmare's version of the Fallen huh?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)10:10 No.14494480

    That's a good way of putting it, actually.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:24 No.14494545
         File1302099845.jpg-(183 KB, 823x1082, 100_3011.jpg)
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    i was planning on making up a couple squads of emperor's nightmares when i thought of something.
    the symbol generally goes on the left shoulder, but corvus armor has those studs there...
    should i switch the icon or put it under/around the studs?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:25 No.14494554
    If they're easily reversible, flip the pads, yeah. Other than that, just use the only available shoulder. I imagine most marines have to do that when they have Mk VI.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:31 No.14494604
    thanks, i think i'll just put the icon on the right then.
    now to figure out the best way to cast that left shoulder....
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:31 No.14494606
    You guys are the best! Continue your wonders, I'll be watching in awe.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:36 No.14494643
    I was originally worried about the fact that their Curse suggests they all go Sleepless. Still am, but it's somewhat alleviated by the fact that you can spend XP to remove Insanity points. Good way to represent the Nightmare in question paying careful attention to his body rhythms and self-maintenance.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:53 No.14494775
    Emperor's Nightmare Captain - 100 Points

    WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv3+

    Unit Composition: 1 Captain
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Power armour, Chainsword, Bolt Pistol, Frag and krak grenades, Iron halo.


    Replace bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:
    -a boltgun - free
    -a storm bolter - +3pts
    -a sniper rifle - +5pts
    -a combi-flamer, -melta or -plasma - +10pts
    -a storm shield, power sword, lightning claw or plasma pistol - +15pts
    -a power fist - +25pts
    -a relic blade - +30pts
    -a thunder hammer - +30pts
    Replace power armour with artificer armour - +15pts
    Take melta bombs - +5pts
    Take digital weapons - +10pts
    Take hellfire rounds - +10pts
    Take Signs of the Sleepless - +15pts
    Take Prophetic Dreams - +15pts
    Take a Dreamcatcher - +5pts
    Take auxiliary grenade launcher - +15pts
    Replace power armour, bolt pistol, chainsword, frag and krak grenades with Terminator armour with storm bolter and power sword - +40pts
    Replace Terminator armour's storm bolter with:
    -combi-flamer, -melta or -plasma - +5pts
    -lightning claw - +10pts
    -thunder hammer - +20pts
    Replace Terminator armour's power sword with:
    -Lightning claw - +10pts
    -Power fist or storm shield - +10pts
    -Thunder hammer or chainfist - +15pts
    If Terminator armour is not chosen, may have one of the following:
    -Secundus upgrade (Gains Stealth, Infiltrate, Sniper Rifle becomes Heavy 2 Ap3) - +25pts
    -Jump pack - +25pts
    -Space Marine bike - +35pts
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)10:54 No.14494780

    *Cough* Bloody name field. More incoming.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:54 No.14494781
    I'm intrigued by this, anons. Is there a wiki where you have this and more info saved?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)10:54 No.14494786


    Here ya go. Enjoy.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:57 No.14494807

    Much thanks, anon.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)10:59 No.14494825
    Actually, for a sufficiently advanced Nightmare, would one be able to take Unnatural Perception (2) as, like, a 2000 point advance? Late in their ranks, mind. I don't recall off hand if there's any precedent for it or equally powerful abilities for late-game marines.
    >> Brother Maximilian 04/06/11(Wed)11:10 No.14494883
    Do we already have a sleepless special character, the same drawbacks and such, but some special abilities and perhaps a high leadership, maybe a chance to make a saving roll to drag himself or the squad back from a total rampage and turn it into just turning on the nearest squad?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)11:12 No.14494907

    We don't have a sleepless special character per se, but we have Chief Apothecary Eidelan, who is obsessed with the Sleepless and does what you described.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)11:15 No.14494924
    Command Squad

    You may take one Command Squad for every Space Marine Captain in your army (Including Captain Hector and Captain Nyseos). This unit does not count against your HQ allowance.

    Unit Composition: 4 Veterans, 1 Apothecary
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Power armour, Chainsword, Frag and krak grenades, Boltgun or bolt pistol, The Apothecary also has a narthecium.

    Unit Options:
    One Veteran may carry the Company Standard - +15pts
    One Veteran may be upgraded to a Company Champion with a power weapon and combat shield - +15pts
    The entire squad amy ride Space Marine bikes - +90pts
    If the accompanying Captain is Captain Nyseos or has the Secundus upgrade, the squad may come with Darkfire Rounds, Cluster Mines and 2 Demolition Charges - +20pts

    Model Options:
    Any Veteran may replace his chainsword and/or bolt pistol with:
    -a storm bolter - +3pts
    -a flamer or sniper rifle - +5pts
    -a meltagun - +10pts
    -a combi-flamer, -melta or -plasma - +15pts
    -a plasma gun, power sword or lightning claw - +15pts
    -a power fist - +25pts
    -a thunder hammer - +30pts
    Any Veteran may replace his bolt pistol with a plasma pistol - +15pts
    Any Veteran may have the following:
    -melta boms - +5pts
    -a storm shield - +15pts

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics

    Dedicated Transports: May select a Drop Pod, Rhino or a Razorback
    >> Brother Maximilian 04/06/11(Wed)11:16 No.14494927

    Just think that a sleepless special character would be cool, maybe flip it, if he doesn't move, shoot, or assault in a turn he goes stircrazy and moves 1d6 in any direction during the next moving phase. the flip is that he gets some special abilities, or higher stats
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)11:23 No.14494967
    Model him off Kharn the Betrayer?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)12:16 No.14495325
    Emperor's Nightmare Librarian

    WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv3+

    Unit Composition: 1 Librarian
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Power armour, Boltgun or bolt pistol, Frag and krak grenades, Force weapon, Psychic hood

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, Independent Character, Psyker

    Psychic Powers: A Librarian has any of the two of the following powers:

    Smite, Force Dome, Living Nightmares, Quickening, Null Zone, The Avenger, Might of the Ancients, The Gaze of Infinity, Vortex of Doom. If he has the Secundus Upgrade he must take The Blackest Night.

    Options: Upgrade to a Dreamwalker (Epistolary) - +50pts
    Replace boltgun with:
    -a storm bolter - +3pts
    -a combi-flamer, -melta or -plasma - +15pts
    -a plasmapistol - +15pts
    May replace power armour, boltgun, frag and krak grenades for terminator armour and:
    -no additional weapon - +25pts
    -a storm bolter - +30pts
    -a combi-flamer, -melta or -plasma - +35pts
    -a storm shield - +40pts
    If Terminator armour is not chosen, may have one of the following:
    -Jump pack - +25pts
    -Space Marine bike - +35pts
    -Secundus Upgrade - +20pts (Gains Stealth, must take The Blackest Night psychic power)
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)12:19 No.14495354
    Unique psychic powers.

    Living Nightmares - The Librarian reaches into the minds of his foes, seeding horrid waking dreams into their consciousness which leave them disoriented at best. Pick an enemy unit within 18'' and roll a D6 and consult the table below.

    1 - You take me for a fool!? - The foes see through the hallucinations. Your opponent may move the target D6'' in any direction, and that unit may not be affected by Living Nightmares for the rest of the game
    2 - Irritation - The foes are distracted by the dancing images. The target is at -1I and will only move and assault 4'' in the ensuing turn.
    3 - Confusion - The victims are baffled and frightened by what he sees. He must pass a Ld test at -1 each time he wishes to move, shoot, use a psychic power or assault in the next turn.
    4 - Fear response - The victims believe these wicked phantasms to be real, and fire wildly at them until their ammunition is spent. The enemy is now out of ammunition, and unless they spend a full turn reloading all their weapons (Not moving, shooting or assaulting) they cannot fire their weapons for the rest of the game, and they lose their +1A for having a pistol and close combat weapon in assault.
    5 - Horror - The victims are badly shaken by their visions. They are at -1 to their WS, BS and Ld for the next turn.
    6 - Despair - Their minds ravaged by the intensity of their horrific waking dreams, the enemies flee wildly, clawing at themselves and shrieking. The target must immediately fall back, and take 2D6 hits with a strength equal to the unit's majority strength.

    The Blackest Night - The Librarian swathes the battlefield in inpenetrable gloom, enabling his fellows to advance unseen. This power grants 1 friendly unit within 24'' a 5+ cover save. If they are already in cover, it simply adds +1 to the save given.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)12:38 No.14495525
    Note that unless otherwise stated, the units cost the same as their C:SM analogues.

    Emperor's Nightmare Chaplain

    WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv3+

    Unit Composition: 1 Chaplain
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Power armour, Boltgun or bolt pistol, Frag and krak grenade, Rosarius, Crozius Arcanum

    Replace boltgun with:
    -a storm bolter - +3pts
    -a combi-flamer, -melta or -plasma - +15pts
    -a power fist - +15pts
    -a plasma pistol - +15pts
    Take melta bombs - +5pts
    Take digital weapons - +10pts
    Take Signs of the Sleepless - +15pts
    Take Prophetic Dreams - +15pts
    May replace power armour, boltgun, frag and krak grenades for Terminator armour and:
    -a storm bolter - +30pts
    -a combi-flamer, -melta or -plasma - +35pts
    If Terminator armour is not chosen, may have one of the following:
    -Jump pack - +15pts
    -Space Marine Bike - +35pts

    Special Rules: Combat Tactics, Independent Character, Differing ideals, Liturgies of Battle, Honour of the Chapter

    Differing ideals: A Chaplain can never join a unit with the Secundus Upgrade.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)13:00 No.14495675
    Master of the Forge - 100pts

    WS4 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+

    Unit Composition: 1 Master of the Forge
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Artificer armour, Servo-harness, Boltgun or bolt pistol, Frag and krak grenades

    Replace servo-harness and boltgun with:
    -Conversion beamer - +20pts
    Replace Boltgun with:
    -a storm bolter - +5pts
    -a combi-flamer, -melta or -plasma - +10pts
    -a plasma pistol - +15pts
    Take Digital Weapons - +10pts
    Take Signs of the Sleepless - +15pts
    Take Phophetic Blueprints - +20pts
    Take either:
    -a power sword - +15pts
    -a thunder hammer - +30pts

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, Independent character, Blessing of the Omnissiah, Bolster Defences

    Prophetic Blueprints - Like a lot of the Chapter, a Master of the Forge may be visited by nebulous visions of the future. However, even in dreams these scions of the omnissiah are far more mechanically and practically minded than their fellows, and retain a lot of knowledge on the weaknesses of enemy armour. At the beginning of the game roll a D6 for each enemy vehicle in the game, just as you would for Prophetic Dreams. On the roll of a 1 the Master of the Forge and any unit he is with have Tank Hunter against this vehicle, and the Master of the Forge counts his weapons as Master Crafted against it.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)13:01 No.14495679
    Anything you can do to make him more effective against walkers, or better able to maintain dreadnoughts?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)13:04 No.14495719

    Oh, I forgot the Master of the Forge's rule.

    Lord of the Armoury: If you include a Master of the Forge in your army, Dreadnoughts, Venerable Dreadnoughts and Ironclad Dreadnoughts may be taken as Heavy Support choices as well as elites Choices, and 1 Icelus Pattern Dreadnought may be taken as a Troops choice.

    And as for being better against walkers...How about...

    Structural Knowledge: The Emperor's Nightmare Master of the Forge knows Dreadnoughts and their likenesses better than anybody outside the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Master of the Forge always hits walkers on a 4+ unless he would hit them on less. This includes planting grenades.

    That'd bump his points up by 10-20, I daresay.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)13:06 No.14495724
    You know, we need more Tech-Marine stories. They would be so much like Holmes it's not even funny.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)13:21 No.14495839


    August Dreamwalker in Iron


    WS6 BS4 S6 F13 S12 R10 I4 A2(3)

    Unit Composition: 1 Dreadnought
    Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker)

    Wargear: Dreadnought close combat weapon with built in storm bolter, Force Weapon, Psychic Hood, Smoke Launchers, Ironclad assault launchers

    Dedicated Transport: Can select a Drop Pod

    Psychic Powers: An August Dreamwalker in Iron has any 2 of the following psychic powers:

    Smite, Living Nightmares, Quickening, Null Zone, The Avenger, the Gaze of Infinity, Vortex of Doom, The Blackest Night

    Special Rules: Venerable, Psychic Pilot, Fire of Ages

    Fire of Ages: The August Dreamwalkers in Iron are mighty psykers of immense age. They may cast 2 psychic powers per turn.

    And as far as I can tell, that's the HQ hammered out. Thoughts, please.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)13:23 No.14495860
    Wow guys... Just wow.
    Having read through the 1d4chan page on this, I am greatly impressed. This is brilliant work, better than most chapters GW can come up with these days.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)13:29 No.14495904
    I'm liking the secundus upgrades, very characterful, I think I'd like to make an army of secundus marines.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)13:31 No.14495924

    Such was my intention...I wanted to make sure both Primus and Secundus were represented, Primus is easy, as it goes along the shock-attack lines everyone is familiar with, but Secundus needs to be equally viable and with a very different play style.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)14:10 No.14496178
    Hey SC guy I like the work you've been doing but I have one point that I'd like to draw everyone's attention to.

    The Nightmares only have 45 suits of terminator armour. No more, no less. Ten suits go to each primus company and five ara a bodyguard for the Secundus Lord Adjutant. They're all accounted for already so I'm not sure that Terminator armour should even be an option for characters.

    That said, in the course of 2,000 years I'm sure at least one Primus captain has said "right lads, I'm wearing one of those" but it's obviously not where the armour is traditionally assigned.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)14:14 No.14496209

    Indeed. Such is why no one with Terminator Armour can take a Secundus Upgrade, but I suppose you have a point, character-wise. The plan is to make Terminators a blanket 0-1 choice, perhaps even shunting them into Heavy Support.

    I'm currently uploading the HQ stuff to a page in the wiki.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)14:31 No.14496347

    *Pants* Here it is. I took out the option for Terminator armour for the Librarian and the Chaplain for now.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)14:33 No.14496369
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)14:42 No.14496458
    I'm gonna take a break, then we'll go for Elites. In the meantime, two questions for you guys.

    1. Sleepless. Troops or Elites?
    2. Terminators? Elites or Heavy Support?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)14:44 No.14496487
    Meh. That works. It's not that big a deal and it's nice to give players options.

    I'm generally in favour of characters not getting terminator armour but it's easy to fluff in any number of excuses for why one particular suit wasn't re-gifted to a veteran when the previous occupant died.

    I think I'd vaguely rather that terminators were a special thing, maybe even a unique unit in each army to represent one squad per company... (then again armies can be from multiple companies)

    Anyway bringing this up for discussion is about as hard as I'm gonna fight for this. It's not a big deal I guess.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)14:47 No.14496511

    Either way Terminators are going to be a special thing, they're a 0-1 choice, if you pick, say, Assault Terminators, you can't have another unit of Assault Terminators or normal Terminators. You will have 1 squad, absolute maximum, forever.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)14:47 No.14496514
    Why not toss both in as Unique Troops choices?

    Keeps Elites from being too crowded.

    And remember that every marine is trained to be a tactical marine, some of whom happen to earn terminator armour for a time. It feels oddly appropriate to me.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)14:50 No.14496534

    Hm. Sleepless may be good as Unique troops. Unique terminator troops, I'm not sure on.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)14:52 No.14496549
    No response to this? Anyone?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)14:53 No.14496560

    I responded to it. I said it's good to get it nice and smoothed out, nicely done.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)14:56 No.14496591
    They're tactical vets inside, and it's really only a mechanical distinction that they're Troops. All that gives them is Scoring, which can make sense for any unit really.

    I know on a gut level making something that's traditionally elite into a Troop is weird but hey there are ways to take all sorts of elite units as troops. The master of the forge can even make a single Icelus a troop choice.

    Given the rare nature of these terminators, and how they're often used (shock and awe claiming of bunkers and objectives through teleport attacks) Scoring makes sense to me, and turning them into unique troops like the Sleepless just seems simpler than keeping them elite and having some longwinded rule like Kantor's one for scoring Sternguard

    That's my thinking on the matter anyway
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)14:58 No.14496612
    I was asleep for a while...

    but Yeah, I really like the updated version
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:00 No.14496636
    The suits of terminator armor are competed for within each company. They have no dedicated bearer--whoever earns them wears them for the next mission. This can work with the rules.
    Sleepless as Troops--you don't field one (except maybe a 'heroic' one), you field a good deal of them. Maybe mandate that you take an apothecary dread for each squad's worth?
    Terminators as Elite. In this chapter, only the best of the best get the suits.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)15:06 No.14496695
    I'm leaning towards Sleepless as a 0-1 Troops Choice. They have the same numbers as the Death Company (i.e. 3-30) so there's room for flexibility within that. Plus, their penchant for going after the nearest unit unless babysitted makes them unreliable objective holders, which may be fun.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:06 No.14496696
    I just had an absolutely horrifying idea.

    A Sleepless somehow getting into Terminator Armour just after going Rogue on a Battle barge or something
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)15:11 No.14496761
    Thought of a special weapon for Night Owl Sternguard. Darkfire Flare Rifle. 30'' range, S4, AP-, Assault 1. If the target is hit by the rifle, the rest of the squad get to reroll misses against it for shooting that turn.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:15 No.14496801
    There was one guy who really wanted Sleepless terminators. The general consensus was that maybe it could have happened, once or twice, but given the danger of a Sleepless and the scarcity of Terminator armor, it is by no means considered a good idea.
    Now the thought of an ESCAPED Sleepless who stole his armor...
    That gives me an idea for our Sleepless hero.
    The Forty-Sixth Terminator. He stole the suit he had won many laurels and honors in through his career. Now he follows the chapter, striking on battlefields at random. No team has yet been able to find him, much less catch him. Unpredictable and violent, he can turn the course of a battle--if he can just tell which side is which.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:16 No.14496805
    just a Bump for the best Chapter /tg/ has ever come up with.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:16 No.14496808
    >The suits of terminator armor are competed for within each company. They have no dedicated bearer--whoever earns them wears them for the next mission.

    Not quite. They're competed for in 5th company and you can lose the honour from battle to battle if you don't constantly earn it. So that;s what you're thinking of and you're quite right.

    But in the other three Primus Companies the suits are perminantly assigned. Same with the Secundus bodyguard.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)15:17 No.14496820

    ...I...Fucking...LOVE IT.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:18 No.14496826
    so kind of like a mixture of Kharn and the Sanguinor?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)15:20 No.14496839

    He could be our...Uh...Main choppy hero. Y'know, our Mephiston, our Calgar, our Ghazghull. I was reluctant to even consider such things, even Captain Hector is a basic fighty captain with some support stuff bolted on...But this makes me wanna.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:21 No.14496843
    Imagine how he would look. He upholds the Sleepless tradition, but his markings have gone far past the normal white-trim shoulders and etched pauldrons. The entire suit is scribed with bizarre and ornate runes and engravings that tell entire epics and legends from his fevered memories. Entire lives and service records are denoted in a bizarre pseudoartistic shorthand. In lieu of codex paints, the white is a composite he made from ground plants and pigments. Perhaps sometimes the paint is slapped on in wide slashes as his madness overcomes his precision.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:21 No.14496845
    Cool, but if he needs terminator armour so badly he should have stolen it from another loyalist chapter (in his mind he "repossessed" it in the Emperor's name from a heretic.)

    The Nightmares were given 45 suits precisely. Bumping that number up makes it feel weird. Like 45 feels like an allotment from the mechanicus. 46 is just some random number. Know what I mean?

    It also could lead to funny stories if he still wears the livery of whatever chapter he took the armour from
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:21 No.14496847
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:23 No.14496859
    what he said
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:23 No.14496864
    He didn't take it out of lucidity, don't forget--but there was no stopping him when he slipped his bonds. If people still like the 46th suit idea, might I suggest we name him Thureous, the Forty Sixth Terminator? In honor of the very first (and possibly creepiest) Sleepless.

    ...Fuck, imagine him if he didn't wear a helmet. Looking at you with NO EYES.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:26 No.14496882
    I'm not questioning a sleepless's ability to successfully steal a suit of terminator armour. Those fuckers are obscenely badass.

    My only point is that the Emperor's Nightmares don't have a 46th suit because it was a mechanicus allotment of 45.

    So either they're down to 44 suits now or he stole his from another chapter or otherwise found it.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:26 No.14496884

    also I'm sure that the Nightmare has had more Terminator armour in the past (maybe up to 50) but mayhaps they lost it to death or Blood Ravens.

    in fact, they HAVE worked with the Blood Ravens in the past
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:28 No.14496897
    Maybe combine these? They had a total of fifty suits, enough to outfit half a company. Over the 2,000 years they've lost several in very extreme engagements, and the last of which, centuries ago, was the theft of the 46th.

    Or perhaps he's spiritually their 46th terminator, and they don't have a clue how he got it.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:29 No.14496898
    This is also an acceptable solution to it.

    I just want people to be aware that we're making a minor retcon if we bump the number to 50 just to suit our needs here.

    That's not a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a thing. Something people might want to consider.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:30 No.14496903
    And then the Mechanicus was pissed, and the Nightmares smoothed it over by giving up the blueprints for the Icelus pattern?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)15:31 No.14496907

    WS7, BS5, S5, T4, W4, I8, A4, Ld2, Sv2+

    Wargear: Terminator Armour, Chainfist.

    Special Rules; Fearless, Fleet of Foot, Eternal Warrior, The Ancient Dreamless, Loyal to No One

    The Ancient Dreamless: KHARNGUINOR has gone without sleep for so long, evaded capture for so long, that his thoughts and actions have truly become one. Kharn suffers no penalties from wearing Terminator Armour, and he strikes in initiative order with his chainfist.

    Loyal to No One: Although KHARNGUINOR has perfect recollection of his time in the Emperor's Nightmare, his lunacy has distorted his vision to the point where he sees them as enemies of the Emperor. If KHARNGUINOR is fighting in the same combat as other Emperor's Nightmares, Kharnguinor can choose to direct up to 2 attacks upon them. For each wound caused, the strength of his remaining attacks increases by 1.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:35 No.14496931
    and now the vote, shall we name him Thureos? After all, that IS the first Sleepless character made in the stories (and imo the best story of them).

    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:36 No.14496939
    The Mechanicus probably wasn't super buttmad, in ten thousand years of war shit happens, but when the Inquisition started asking around, the Nightmare pointed to this incident and went "I TOLD YOU ABOUT SLEEPLESS, BRO. I TOLD YOU, DOG."
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:37 No.14496943
    I love it. I think his Loyal to No One rule could use some work but I love Ancient Dreamless.

    And a fleet eternal terminator striking at initiative with a chainfist is just the right level of OH GOD WHAT THE FUCK for this character. Nice call on no ranged weapons. I'm not sure how I feel about that in practice but I love the mental image of a really quick on his feet sleepless terminator bouncing on the balls of his feet in a boxer pose, distracting you with jabs before he gives you a solid right hook from his chainfist,
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:39 No.14496955
    I for one (as the guy who suggested it) say yes to Thureos, the Forty-Sixth Terminator.

    Can you give him a rule for how bloody scary he is?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:39 No.14496959
    Totally. I'm all for it.

    Thureos died at the end of his story though. Is this actual but mildly retconned thureus or just an homage?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:41 No.14496967
    Did he? Unless there was a second story about him, the apothecary just finally knocked his ass out with a super-dose of drugs, and had him carted away to join the Sleepless.

    "He would be armed and armoured once more, and deployed in the next assault. It was the only remaining mercy for one as far gone as Thureos."
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:42 No.14496973
    and... and then we get the story about the =][= taking the Sleepless Librarian dread, and sticking it in a Icelus thinking nothing could go wrong!
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:42 No.14496982
    oh snap I'm misremembering. Cool. Nevermind then. He just escaped shortly after that.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:43 No.14496991
         File1302119013.png-(83 KB, 400x431, OwlglassFinal.png)
    83 KB
    Gotta come up with a better name than Kharnguinor.

    Anyway, here's a version of the icon update with a transparent background. Does this look like a version you all would like to adopt? Or do you want to keep the one we currently have? Because I've got a vector version of that one too.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:44 No.14496995
    He was just sent into battle, it was left open as to whether he survived or not
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:44 No.14496999
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:45 No.14497004
    Dramatic re-enactment: http://www.220.ro/desene-animate/Family-Guy-Stewie-At-The-Baseball-Game/SXRjbGEY0g/
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:46 No.14497008
    My understanding was that they had a librarian icelus and he became sleepless on duty in the DeathWatch, and the =][= thought in their hubris they could control and study him.

    I'm sure the Inquisition could comission an icelus from their own facilities but the Nightmares certainly wouldn't have spares and it makes more sense for the libby to not be switching chassis and just have it already.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)15:46 No.14497009

    Hm. How about the rule the Icelus Dreads get? -1Ld within a certain radius, -2ld when in base contact?


    General consensus is, his name is Thureos.

    I'm gonna alter Loyal to No One, since it's pretty pointless. I still want an incentive to have the player willingly killing his own guys.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:46 No.14497016
    I love it.

    hey guys, how about when we're done here we make the Angry Marines not retarded?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)15:49 No.14497038
    How about...For every friendly wound he causes, he gains 2 attacks. So he can slaughter his own guys to become THE FUCKING FURY for a turn.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:50 No.14497045
    Perhaps just "for every model, friend or foe, that Thureos kills he gains one additional attack at the end of combat" or something like that?

    That rule itself seems a little derpy as I spent all of two seconds thinking, but I think the "any model" route is the best way to go. Incentivize killing the daemons or dark eldar or whatever Thureos thinks everyone is. He wouldn't be making distinctions about which army is which so neither should the rule I think.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:52 No.14497064
    How about something to up his survivability, but also make him a bag of dicks for the Nightmare player if things go sour?
    Like, any Nightmare marines have to try to subdue him at least once if they're within 6"?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)15:54 No.14497074
    >2 attacks per friendly wound
    >already A4
    >I8 chainfist
    jesus fucking christ
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:00 No.14497121

    I quite like it. "OH SON OF A BITCH! It's Thureos! GET HIM BEFORE HE KILLS US ALL"
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:02 No.14497141
    Writing, hopefully wouldn't be too fluff butchering. Idle thought: Techmarine Sleepless. Scary as all hell y/y?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:03 No.14497147
    Sleepless anydamnthing is scary as all hell.
    Make some mention of Sleepless marines' armor.
    Their machine spirits are crying.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:05 No.14497162
         File1302120340.jpg-(14 KB, 200x200, 944768_vb.jpg)
    14 KB
    yfw this is a traitor legion.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:06 No.14497166
    Specialist sleepless are always scary. Techmarines have a lot of things to distract them from their curse though so I could see their sanity lasting a bit longer than normal.

    I love picturing sleepless techmarines working on icelus dreadnoughts for years at a time.

    waking dead Librarians are pretty much the scariest thing I've ever thought about though. Holy fuck.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:06 No.14497167

    Nah. Sleepless are anything but traitors.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:06 No.14497170
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:08 No.14497192
    Holy shit. Imagine a techmarine Sleepless etching the Sleepless markings into every inch of an Icelus. Knowing that he might end up piloting it someday.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:08 No.14497193
    As for the "Trying to subdue him" rule, how about any Emperor's Nightmare unit within 12'' of him has to pass a Leadership test at -1. If they fail, they immediately open fire on him?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:09 No.14497197
    Sounds good. Maybe also make independent characters have to try to close to single-combat?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:10 No.14497210
    I like it, but if your entire army is going to be trying to kill your own unit mechanically, he should probably be even more badass.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:11 No.14497211
    >Not Emperor's Nightmares

    We really need to focus on people who aren't murderingly crazy.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:12 No.14497229

    There's plenty of people who aren't murderously crazy. In the entire planned codex, there are 3 entries out of dozens which are Sleepless. It's just that the writefaggotry seems to like them as a concept.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:14 No.14497234
    Mostly because they're fascinating and mildly horrifying at the same time.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:14 No.14497237
    >people who aren't YET murderingly crazy.

    Fixed that for you. Most battle brothers will eventually fall to sleeplessness. The catalpsean node degredation is almost inevitable.

    And we do lots of focus on Primus and Secundus. Sleepless are just fucking badass so they get talked about a lot. The wiki is like 90% about the rest of the chapter though.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:16 No.14497247
    I'll say it again.

    where the FUCK is the Fin when you need him?

    We need a model of Thureos
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:17 No.14497255
    I think we need to get back to the core idea- a chapter cursed with problematic sleep patterns. Badass insomniac marines and potato-dreads are great ideas, but the focus should be on the chapter and not gimmicks...
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:17 No.14497258
    >Most battle brothers will eventually fall to sleeplessness. The catalpsean node degredation is almost inevitable.
    See, I think that's still to be determined. It's our Primarch's Curse and all, but I don't know if it makes sense to be this looming fate all of them have. It should be arbitrary and unpredictable.
    Maybe it becomes much more likely without apothecary care, and the marine needs to pay careful attention to his sleeping habits to minimize the risk, but I don't think I like it being that widespread.

    I mean, this is a chapter that honors its elders, and it has a lot of them. Plus, aside from the viability of a chapter that can go crazy halfway through its combat viable years, why would the chapter be allowed to sustain itself if it was?

    I just think there's too many strikes against everyone, or even most, going sleepless. It should be tragic, and perhaps more common than anyone wishes, but not widespread.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:20 No.14497282
    Thureos, the forty-sixth Terminator.


    WS7, BS5, S5, T4, W4, I8, A4, Ld2, Sv2+

    Wargear: Terminator Armour, Chainfist.

    Special Rules; Fearless, Fleet of Foot, Eternal Warrior, The Ancient Dreamless, Loyal to No One

    The Ancient Dreamless: Thureos has gone without sleep for so long, evaded capture for so long, that his thoughts and actions have truly become one. Kharn suffers no penalties from wearing Terminator Armour, and he strikes in initiative order with his chainfist.

    Terrifying Presence: Thureos is a uniquely terrifying figure, his hulking Terminator Armour seeming to barely weigh him down as he hacks his way through the battlefield. Any enemy unit within 6'' of Thureos is at -1Ld. This penalty is increased to -2 if he is in base contact.

    Loyal to No One: Although Thureos has perfect recollection of his time in the Emperor's Nightmare, his lunacy has distorted his vision to the point where he sees them as enemies of the Emperor. If Thureos is fighting in the same combat as other Emperor's Nightmares, Kharnguinor can choose to direct up to 2 attacks upon them. For each wound caused he gains an extra 2 attacks he may use immediately. However, the Nightmares are well aware of the danger this madman causes, and any Emperor's Nightmare unit within 12'' has to pass a Leadership Test at -1 or lose their nerve and open fire on him.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:20 No.14497283
    This is truth. And why there are so many stories about the Sleepless: THis is shit you don't want to happen, and what will happen if you stay out too long
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:21 No.14497289
    The "gimmicks" you speak of have been integral parts of the "core idea" since thread one.

    Respectfully, fuck your shit.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:22 No.14497294
    Ignore the "Maximum of 2 friendly attacks" phrase.

    And now, back to the show. Troops next, I think.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:23 No.14497300
    >350 point model
    Awwwww jeah
    One little thing, change "vision" to "senses." Dude pulled out his own eyes because he didn't feel them necessary to see the truth.

    ....fuck, he's that deadly in melee and he's doing it by hearing alone.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:27 No.14497338
    You misunderstand I think.

    Sleeplessness is not "common," but it is largely considered "inevitable". It IS unpredictable and can happen without warning at any time in a marine's life.

    It probably wont happen to Joe Tactical before he dies heroically in combat after 200 years of service... but it could. Anyone could become sleepless, that's part of why the chapter has such great respect and pity for them.

    The risk of sleeplessness is widespread and affects every member of the chapter since they all have the same catalpsean node.

    Actually becoming sleepless is a thankfully rare occurance. Probably only one or at most two new sleepless per year from the whole chapter. But that's still too many for the chapter to be happy about it,
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:29 No.14497351
    The problem is that means all of its elders can't really exist. Node degradation is known to happen to dreadnoughts, and there are some thousands-of-years-old August Dreamwalkers. Most of the chapter's heroes will be hundreds of years old.
    Perhaps there can be in-chapter theories about the inevitability of Sleeplessness, but since so many die in combat, and many others live for centuries without the affliction, it remains unproven?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:33 No.14497380
    rolled 94 = 94


    They really are an interesting point of view. Absolutely monstrous skills and fortitude, incredible precision and concentration, but driven completely batshit insane by their constant alertness.

    We don't know exactly scientifically why REM sleep is necessary, but the biggest theory says it has something to do with how the brain filters and stores information it gathered throughout the day. The Sleepless have no such ability, and thus what they see and experience is processed and interpreted in increasingly erratic ways, further degrading their grasp on reality.

    Sometimes it's just more fun to write characters that are completely off their rocker.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:34 No.14497388
    1. The chapter is only 2,000 years old. Despite revering its ancients it doesn't have that much of a legacy so 400 year olds could be considered "ancient" comparatively and even their chapter master is at most 2400 years old. (400 at chapter creation plus two millenia of sitting in a coma in a dread)
    2. a captain might live to 600 years old and not suffer any catalpsean node degradation. A neophyte might have his fall apart in the first week. The apothecarion is damn good, but they don't understand this one.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:35 No.14497397
    They're being exaggerated a bit much. It's interesting, but drifting a bit...
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:37 No.14497413
    The chapter will have marines and geneseed older than themselves. The degradation may have been introduced from the chapter master, even, but 40k tends to be fuzzy about details.
    As for point two, that doesn't necessarily counteract the idea about it being debated. Why not have schools of thought in the chapter? They don't understand the nature of the Sleepless and the degradation, they can at best make educated guesses. Some think it's a fact of their lives. Others think it's a rare tragedy.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:37 No.14497414
    as a core contributor to all eight threads I disagree completely, but you are entitled to your opinion.

    If we were setting out to make another Ultramarines successor we would have done so. We weren't, so we didn't.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:38 No.14497422
    Tactical Squad

    Space Marine Sergeant: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
    Space Marine: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+

    Unit Composition: 4 Space Marines, 1 Space Marine Sergeant
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Power armour, Bolt pistol, Frag and krak grenades, Boltgun

    May include up to five additional Space Marines - +16pts/model
    If the squad numbers ten models, one Space Marine may replace his boltgun with one of the following:
    -a flamer: Free
    -a meltagun: +5pts
    -a plasma gun - +10pts
    If the squad numbers ten models, one Space Marine may replace his boltgun with one of the following:
    -a heavy bolter, multi-melta or a missile launcher: Free
    -a plasma cannon: +5pts
    -a lascannon: +10pts
    The Space Marine Sergeant may replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with:
    -a chainsword: Free
    -a combi-melta, -flamer or -plasma: +10pts
    -a storm bolter: +10pts
    -a plasma pistol: +15pts
    -a power weapon: +15pts
    -a power fist: +25pts
    The Space Marine Sergeant may take:
    -melta bombss: +5pts
    -teleport homer: +15pts
    -dreamcatcher - +10pts

    Dedicated Transport: May select a Rhino or a Razorback. If the squad numbers ten models, may take a Drop Pod.

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, combat Squads, Combat Tactics
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:39 No.14497433
    Maybe add the dreamcatcher wargear option?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:41 No.14497441
    It seems logical to me that there would be the opposite of the Sleepless within the Chapter; Marines who have went into an all but permanent sleep (just like their Chapter Master, but without Tzeentchian shenanigans.) as their node degeneration swung the other way around and drew them to eternal slumber instead of robbing from them the ability to sleep. You could even make them fieldable by having a Librarian guide them - they're Marines, after all, and their combat reflexes are honed to such heights that they can fight while asleep so long as their surroundings are relayed to them with the help of a Librarian. The benefit to fielding such Marines could be that each Marine's link to the dreamscape gives them an insight to the immediate future, allowing them to better react to surprise tactics.

    Or there could be a single, special character, a battle brother so fervent in his zeal that he continued to fight with apparent lucidity after being taken by slumber in the middle of a battle, his brothers only noticing after the skirmish that he was fast asleep all along. To his Chapter's surprise, the still-asleep Marine responded by donning his wargear when his Chapter was next called to battle and obeyed all orders with a precision his awake brothers would envy. All attempts to wake him up have been futile, and he's been carrying the Emperor's glory in both the waking world and Immaterium since then, sometimes simultaneously.

    I have this persistent mental image of a sleeping Emperor's Nightmare purging the witch, mutant and heretic while snoring.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:41 No.14497444

    The sergeant already has the option, my good man.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:41 No.14497447
         File1302122498.jpg-(151 KB, 792x764, Last Stand.jpg)
    151 KB
    Whoops, missed it on the Sergeant. My bad.
    Adding Nightmare marine again so this post isn't a total waste.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:43 No.14497466
    I've been here since the start as well, and still think it holds. There's a difference between "generic vanilla" and "jumping the space shark"...

    Icon looks great.

    Incidentally, don't most Chapters change their heraldry and banners over time/between designs?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:43 No.14497468
    Oh there could totally be schools of thought about the curse. In fact there should be. Wicked cool!

    The gene seed didn't come from the chapter master though. And while he and a dozen or so support staff were brought in from the Raven Guard they wouldn't have used their gene seed for this new chapter. Considering how important gene seeds and legacies and whatever are to the Astartes that would be disrespectful. When those support staff died their prognoid glands were sent back to the Raven Guard.

    We haven't established exactly how the curse happened, and while I almost like the idea of it being a tzeentchian curse or something I think it's best we just leave it alone and say that it was an unknown tiny error by the mechanicus during the creation of the first cloned prognoids.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:43 No.14497475
    There's some about this already--Dreamers are those who can influence and walk the semi-state world between waking reality and the warp.

    I might also add there was this story about what can happen if a marine falls asleep in combat. http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Watcher_and_Sleeper
    Watchers are those awake (and anticipating remaining so for a while), tasked with watching those who have fallen asleep. Sleepers are any marines who are in their long sleep-state. Dreamers are those who can interact strongly with the Dreamscape.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:46 No.14497495
    What exactly do you consider jumping the shark? Having sleepless? Having special dreadnoughts? Being a new chapter? Having lots of tactical marines? Being purple?

    Again all due respect but it seems to me like you're mostly hating on them because they're not exactly the same as other chapters. Not because those differences are too weird, but just because they are differences at all. Everything has been pretty carefully justified in the fluff so I think saying "jump the shark" is a little extreme.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:49 No.14497534
    Techmarine Hadrianus strode through the refinery core of his mind. Here within a citadel of steeled nerves he could hear the voice of the Omnissiah sing in light and sparks. Here His voice was not the lingua-technis, a corruption of the machine by base flesh, nor the purer binary but of the crackling base of electricity and whines and the language of the working machine. He strode through machinery that guided him onward, the hiss of a gasket, the dull thrum of the pistion searching for…something. He did not know what, he did not know how he came to be searching, but he knew he was searching

    Hadriaus stopped at a junction in the jungle of cables and steel, turning, listening. It was not the methodical perfection of the machine, or the fragilities of his pounding heart. It was erratic, it was strange, it was hunting him. The metal crumbled into rust around him, and he ran. The metal screamed at him and cursed his presence, the machine snarled at his lies, the cables buzzed cruelty to him. He ran faster into the maw of rust, to choke it’s hunger on the flesh of faith and steel.

    It did swallow Hadrianus, and grind his bones to dust and ash, but the dreaming steel walked on, that which was the steel of Hadrianus walked, drawn towards a beacon within the belly of the beast. Wires glowed like censers, the aether glowing from behind it. This was-

    The device reverberated, being beaten from the other side. The Gellar Field Generator. It iswaswillbe failing.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:49 No.14497536
    Scout Squad

    Scout Sergeant: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv4+
    Scout: WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv4+
    Unit Composition: 4 Scouts, 1 Scout Sergeant
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Scout armour, Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Frag and krak grenades

    May include up to five additional scouts - +13pts/model
    Any model may replace his boltgun with a shotgun, combat blade or sniper rifle - Free
    One Scout may replace his boltgun with a heavy bolter (with hellfire shells), a missile launcher or a Darkfire Flare Rifle (Only of Secundus Upgrade is taken)
    The Scout Sergeant may take:
    -melta bombs - +5pts
    -teleport homer - +15pts
    -Dreamcatcher - +10pts
    The squad may have camo cloaks - +3pts/model
    The squad may be upgraded to Secundus Operatives - +4pts/model

    Secundus Operatives are WS4, BS4 and are equipped with Power Armour

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Scouts
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:50 No.14497541
    They do. We (or at least, I) want to see someone improve on what was done with >>14492369 for the Fifth company banner.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:53 No.14497583
    rolled 42 = 42



    Man, I thought that was a typo at first. Awesome story thus far.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:54 No.14497587
    I would suggest making Scouts all use Secundus rules. Even if they're not an official part of battlegroup Secundus, their stealthy role suggests they all pick up the training during initiation.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)16:57 No.14497628
    On reflection, it isn't as bad as I accidentally implied. It certainly isn't that bad, and the ideas are interesting (love the dread), but when you make every aspect of the Chapter exaggerated...

    Porcupine dreads (with their greater numbers balanced by the rarity of terminator armour)is great, having most of them be sleepless and go on regular rampages isn't...

    The librarian dread destroying the ship story was cool because it was a fluke; entire groups of ramaging sleepless just seem a bit off.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:58 No.14497635
    0-1 Sleepless - 60 Points

    WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I5 A2 Ld7 Sv3+
    Unit Composition: 3 Sleepless
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Power Armour, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag and Krak grenades

    Options: Add up to twenty-seven Sleepless: +20 Points/model
    Any Sleepless can replace their bolt pistol and/or chainsword for:
    A Power Weapon: 15 Points/model
    A Power Fist: 25 Points/model
    A Thunder Hammer: +30 Points/model

    For every five models in the squad, one Sleepless can replace his bolt pistol with a Plasma Pistol for +15 Points/model
    The entire squad can have Jump Packs: +15pts/model

    Dedicated Transport: If the squad does not have Jump Packs, it can select any dedicated transport we decide to let the damn chapter have in the future.

    Special Rules: Rage, Fearless, Feel No Pain, Furious Charge

    Faltering Reality: The Sleepless are so crazed that they can barely distinguish friend from foe. If there is no Independant Character within the unit it must take an Ld test each movement phase. If this is failed the squad must move as fast as they can towards the nearest unit (Friend or Foe), fire at it (Even if after the movement phase there is a closer unit) and, if possible, assault this unit. If the unit is friendly it attacks back as usual, but do not fight in the enemy's turn and if the Sleepless pass their test the next turn, combat immediately ceases. If a double 6 is ever rolled for this leadership test, the Sleepless go absolutely beserk. Every unit (Friend or Foe, excluding other Sleepless) within 2D6'' takes 2D6 S5 hits. Vehicles are hit on their side armour. After this, remove the unit from play.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)16:59 No.14497648

    It's a possiblity, I suppose.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:01 No.14497682
    Don't worry too hard--most are not Sleepless, and the rampages are incredibly rare. They keep a very close eye on their fallen brothers and have the best idea of what to expect from them.
    Honestly, we're probably detailing every important Sleepless attack there's ever been. That'll be, like, three? In the whole history of the chapter.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:06 No.14497730
    Oh then no worries. That's how it is now. Sleepless are rare, we just fucking love talking about them because they're cool. As >>14497682 says we've probably detailed almost every major sleepless problem in the chapter's history at this point.

    I was just taking issue in general because as you may remember we've shot down a LOT of good ideas over the threads exactly because we were shoving too much into the chapter and wanted to keep it grounded. We've been trying VERY hard to keep this chapter from jumping the shark into stupid shit or over the top shit, so I guess I was mildly put off by the implication we weren't doing enough because we've all made some sacrifices for this chapter already.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:08 No.14497758
    So guys, attack and defense patterns for Deathwatch? The book gives basic level 1 stuff, and we have the Secrets of Fluidity, but nothing else yet.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:10 No.14497768
    >30 Sleepless w/ Jump packs - 1050 points
    >Thureos, the 46th Terminator - 350
    >Those Sleepless failing their test and assaulting Thureos in turn 2 - Pricless
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)17:13 No.14497814
    Okay, that's Troops done...I'm gonna hold off doing Dedicated Transports 'till the end, because it's a menial task. I think we'll delve into Fast Attack now.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:13 No.14497819
    Actually, that's a good point. Make a Sleepless rule that lets them recognize each other as their own.

    ...Also, between 350 for Thureos and 1050 for the full Sleepless squad, I kind of want to see 1400 points of Sleepless as your ENTIRE FORCE.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:14 No.14497830
    How many are there anyway? The big ones, not just "a sleepless attacked someone he wasn't supposed to but we managed to get him back under control with only a few casualties"

    We have the sleepless librarian dread who destroys his battle barge thinking he's protecting the chapter from warp dwelling xenos.

    We have the icelus librarian who becomes sleepless during a tour of duty in the Deathwatch and gets stolen by the Inquisition before escaping their hidden fortress and going to war with them

    We have Thureos' recent escape, as well as his shadowing of the chapter. (which is something we could expand on. Just who or what does he think he's following and why?)

    am I forgetting one?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:16 No.14497847
    That's the body of them. As for more for Thureos, we do need to think on that. Maybe some part of him recognizes them, but in combat he stops being able to take the time to process reality as effectively.

    On another note, this thread has now been archived and the link added to the wiki page.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:17 No.14497865
    Oh shit, hang on.
    One major bit of fluff were the Apothecary-dreadnoughts that tend to the Sleepless. I think they'd be a mandated part of a Squad as a leader of some sort. Or did we already stat them in an earlier thread?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:18 No.14497875
    oh and there's also the sleepless dread that escaped the fortress monastary on Icelus and slaughtered lots of civilians in the underhive about 50 years before the present in 40k time.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)17:19 No.14497882

    ...Hm. I don't like the idea of giving Sleepless squads Dreadnought support, they're already Death-Company level hardcore as it is. However, perhaps they could have an Apothecary as a squad leader? Gives them a concrete reason to Feel No Pain, too.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:20 No.14497895
    There's also the Walking Dead dreadnought that escaped into one of Icelus' hive cities, an event that caused the underhivers to not trust and even hate the Marines that rule their world
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:20 No.14497905
    The waking dead libby on the battle barge was convinced his brothers were like possessed by xenos or daemons or something, perhaps a similar delusion for Thureos? That or take inspiration from Thureos' own story.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:21 No.14497919
    How about having him chant prayers of penance and pleas for forgiveness for his sins when comparatively lucid? At best, he realizes that he has sinned somehow, but isn't quite awake enough to put 2 and 2 together. And that's at best...

    More importantly, why hasn't he been put down? There has to be a reason, even if he's deployed and the Curse makes him formidable: if he's much of a liability as he is, why haven't they simply called in an orbital strike to stop the team-killing (or just shot him)?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:22 No.14497921
    It's not really a conventional Dread--I remember they used outsized narthecum so they could pump massive doses of tranquilizers into the Sleepless, just to keep them in line. I still sort of want to see that being usable against enemies for some kind of Poison effect. Let me do a quick bit of hunting in old threads.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)17:26 No.14497962

    Righto. In the meantimme, I'll just add an Apothecary for the sake of completeness until we come to a consensus.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:27 No.14497973
    Aye I see where you're coming from but two counterpoints for the sake of discussion

    1)Death Company can get Death Company Dreadnoughts.
    2)slleepless being herded by dreadnoughts (who are less likely to be accidentally murdered by the sleepless due to being walking tanks) is mentioned already on the wiki a couple times. The old consensus was that they accompanied all deployments because two dread apothecaries was a more reliable sheppard than a comparatively fragile apothecary in power armour.

    We could go with the standard "he's carrying like.. a holy relic or whatever" excuse for why they don't just nuke him from orbit.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:28 No.14497989
    Mechadendrites dreaming self recoiled backward and Hadriaus-that-would-be stared through the wires and to outside. The machine-dreaming warned Hadrianus. The ship-dreaming cried in fear. He could fear their heartbeats, the tearing of holy metal. He could his servos whine, his blood pounding in his ears-that-weren’t, he willisgoingto savingissavingwillsave them.

    Techmarine Hadrianus wakes. It takes him but a moment to gain his bearings, and sit upright. His mechadendrites moved sluggish, still caught in that sleep-of-steel. The ship – no, it has been an age since the demons had taken the battle barge ‘Internal Vigilance’, that his return from Mars was marred by the brutal rot of the Nurgling almost consumed them whole. The ground swayed beneath his feet.

    He would visit the Apothecary soon. These dreams were becoming far too organic and too often the mechadendrites would consume his dreaming self. This…could be signs most foreboding.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)17:31 No.14498023

    I get your points...How about we compromise, say that these dreadnoughts are modified Iceluses?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:31 No.14498024
    From thread 4, summarized:
    Sleepless are tended to by pairs of dreadnoughts working in tandem, wielding specialized Narthecum as close-combat weapons. They both direct the madmen toward the enemy, and can subdue them with powerful sedative doses to bring them in line for battle's end. Sleepless that are interred in Dreadnoughts have a specially-fit narthecum socket mounted into the sarcophagus, enabling the apothecaries to quickly dose their armored charges.
    For Thureos: Add to his intrigue--they've TRIED all of this. He always slips away, escapes, evades, or survives withering assaults, artillery barrages, and orbital bombardment. They just can't catch him. He knows all the secrets of fluidity.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:32 No.14498038
    Aren't Dreamers usually expected to wake up eventually? I am suggesting the other extreme of the Sleepless, Marines afflicted with permanent sleep due to node degeneration (since the Chapter is well aware of their mutation, they will probably monitor all Marines and quickly notice any underlying problem.) Perhaps it'd be fitting to call them Oneiroi to distinguish them from ordinary Dreamers, since the former are completely taken by the dreamworld. Those (and perhaps volunteer Dreamers as well) may be led by a Librarian in the physical world to do battle, so that even if their tactical insight can no longer be utilized, their battle prowess can. I suppose volunteering to be led as a Dreamer would be limited to regular Marines and not any character of note, though, since the latter are too valuable to send to battle in their semi-conscious state. Oneiroi proper are always present, though, since that's the only way they can fight in the waking world.

    Though, this seems like too many concepts shoehorned into the Chapter. If anything, a single Dreamer who still obeys orders and can somehow do battle despite being confirmed asleep by Apothecaries would be more fitting, as a silent figure in the battlefield with almost supernatural reflexes brought by his dreaming state. He'd also have a Watcher permanently assigned to him, as he deactivates after every battle, deep in sleep and displaying no outward signs of his previous capacity for slaughter (Could be a rule in fielding him, where if he's far away from battle for too long, he returns to passive slumber and is removed from play.)
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:33 No.14498049
    rolled 30 = 30


    This is becoming one of my favorite bits of writefaggotry on the chapter. Any more parts?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:33 No.14498052
    From Thread 5:

    Okay, I've been thinking this guy out a bit more. This is all assuming the Sleepless are still Death Company analogues.

    Chief Apothecary Eidelan - 120pts
    Shephard of the Endless Awakening

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
    5 4 4 4 2 4 2 9 3+

    Wargear: Power Armour, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Narthecium, Frag & Krak Grenades

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, Independant Character.

    Shephard of the Endless Awakening: Eidelan has spent more time tending to the Sleepless than perhaps he should, for he finds them a fascinating and terrifying picture of what they all might become. Thus he has worked out ways of curtailing their wrath. At the beginning of the Movement phase, if Eidelan is part of a Sleepless unit he may try to use a powerful mix of depressants in his Narthecium to reduce their psychosis by taking a leadership test. If failed, this is no effect. If passed, the Sleepless lose their Rage for the rest of that turn, but must immediately take a Dangerous Terrain test to represent the mind-clogging effects of that powerful a concoction

    Terror Tactics: Eidelan knows well how best to form the Sleepless under his command into a howling wall of terror which renders the enemy insensible with fear. When charging into combat with a unit of Sleepless, the charged unit suffers a -2Ld penalty, as though charged by a scout unit out of a Land Speeder Storm.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)17:36 No.14498074

    Eidelan is a bit of a special case...He's obsessed with them, studies them constantly, knows them better than anyone else.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:37 No.14498090
    Good point.
    On more cursory digging, the idea was that there are a grand total of six dreadnoughts dedicated to tending the Sleepless.
    Perhaps make 3 canon normal variants, and 3 Icelus? The only mandated equipment is one CCW Narthecium.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:39 No.14498107
    I perfer the 'He's so scary, they really can't. First Sleepless - or, at least, the greatest - and he can still see the stars eve with his EYES CARVED OUT, so don't even think about getting a ship in orbit without him noticing.

    Or he might have learned how to Dreamwalk? Or the Emperor actually does talk to him? Or no Marine has told ANYONE about him, they can't seem to take him out personally, and those that have gotten close enough were not emotionally or physically strong enough?

    Or any number of rumors.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)17:43 No.14498155
    How about "A unit of Sleepless must be accompanied by either:
    Apothecary Icelus: +60pts
    Apothecary Dreadnought: 100pts

    Both are outfitted with Narthecium Glaives (3+ poison, a multi-wound model which suffers an unsaved wound against a model wielding a Narthecium Glaive must pass a toughness test or suffer Instant Death as the massive chemical overdose burns them out)"
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:45 No.14498178
    Sounds good.
    With a 100 point dreadnought and Thureos, that makes 1500 points on the dot. I know you need HQ and whatnot, but I just really want to see 1500 points of unsleeping death making an enemy force shit its pants.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:52 No.14498238
    >I perfer the 'He's so scary, they really can't. First Sleepless - or, at least, the greatest - and he can still see the stars eve with his EYES CARVED OUT, so don't even think about getting a ship in orbit without him noticing.

    Honestly I prefer that too. He is fucking Thureos.

    I just proposed a slightly more traditional canon answer like the holy relic excuse because the earlier discussion about being careful not to jump any sharks is still fresh in my mind.

    Again though. He's fucking Thureos. He skips ropes with sharks as a morning workout before he eats his breakfast.

    His breakfast is also sharks..
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)17:52 No.14498245

    Well, Thureos is an HQ choice. You'd need another Troop unit.

    I'm tempted to give Eidelan a Narthecium Glaive.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:56 No.14498269
    Give him two. He'll be a Furioso full of crack.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:56 No.14498274
    As the author of the tale of Thureos, it warms my bitter, blackened, exam-battered heart to see that people are batting the name around and assigning it to a statted character. I am glad that people took pleasure in my scribblings. All I can do is look at it and wince at the lack of editing, personally.

    tl;dr I love you all, /tg/. When I get back from study group tonight, I may try my hand at dashing out something less psychotic.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)17:57 No.14498278

    Hehehe, shame Eidelan is an Apothecary, not a Dreadnought.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)17:57 No.14498279
    This idea has popped up a couple times over the course of the thread. General consensus each time has been that the only PERMENANTLY asleep member of the chapter is Randolphus the chapter master and that doing too much more expansion of the dreamers beyond what we already have risks shoving too much shit into the chapter and breaking our fine balance of awesome new shit and traditional old shit.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:00 No.14498300
    Death company dreadnought is a Troop choice, seems like an apothecary dread would be in the same slot as the Sleepless too.

    Like death company I think it should be conceptually possible to field a sleepless only army for those rare occasions when they're just turned lose in an enemy stronghold to murder things, it just wouldn't have any scoring units
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)18:00 No.14498309

    It's the least we could do to celebrate such a fantastic story, my man.

    With the Apothecary Dreadnought situation out of the way, and Eidelan sporting a brand new medical pimp cane, we can get into the Fast Attack. We'll start with that loveable pile of mechadendrites...

    Icelus Pattern Dreadnought

    1-3 may be purchased as a single Fast Attack choice. They deploy as separate units.

    WS5 BS5 S5 T 4(6) W4 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv3+
    Unit Type: Monstrous Creature

    Pair of Lightning Claws, Astartes Sniper Rifle, Frag Grenades

    Can replace either Lightning Claw with:

    Combi Melta/Plasma/flamer - Free
    Storm Bolter - Free
    Power Fist - 10 points
    Chainfist - 15 points
    Thunder Hammer - 15 points
    Storm Shield (One) - 30 points

    Can replace Astartes Sniper Rifle with:

    Astartes Shotgun - Free
    Astartes Grenade Launcher - 5 points
    Meltagun - 10 points
    Plasma Gun - 15 points
    Heavy Bolter - 15 points
    Multi-Melta or Missile Launcher - 20 points
    Lascannon or Plasma Cannon - 35 points
    Assault Cannon - 40 points

    (Note that if a Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Plasma Cannon, Multi-Melta, Lascannon or Assault Cannon is selected the Icelus loses the Nimble and Infiltrate special rules)

    Special Rules
    Acute Senses, Stealth, Move Through Cover, Infiltrate, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, Hit And Run, Quiet As The Grave, Nimble
    Quiet as the Grave
    All enemies suffer -1 Ld within 6" of the Icelus, or -2 if in base contact with the Icelus.
    Icelus pattern dreadnoughts are designed to have an almost freakish mobility. As such, they have the Furious Charge and Fleet of Foot Universal Special Rules and may roll two dice and pick the highest when running.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:02 No.14498327

    There is no surprising or sneaking up on Thureos

    The dreamscape speaks to him

    He will escape and always live on to fight the Emperor's enemies and protect his beloved Battle Brothers
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:07 No.14498383
    I was thinking there should maybe be some kind of upgrade option to become a specialist. Either a librarian or a sleepless or both.

    Also I've been thinking about the special rules that get lost when you equip a heavy weapon and I think they should maybe also lose Hit and Run (but still keep move through cover, even though they don't need it since they're MCs and have it anyway). As I recall hit and run is partially there to ensure that the icelus can always fall back from combat even if you take chapter tactics, but the heavy weapon is supposed to drastically slow them down so maybe drop this too and make all the heavy weapons like five points cheaper to compensate?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)18:09 No.14498416
    Third time lucky...

    Apothecary Dreadnought
    60pts for an Icelus, 100pts for a Dreadnought
    An Apothecary Dreadnought may only be fielded if there is also a unit of Sleepless in the force.

    Apothecary Dreadnought: WS4 BS4 S6 F12 S12 R12 I4 A2
    Apothecary Icelus: WS4 BS4 S5 T4(6) W4 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv3+

    Wargear: Narthecium Glaive, The Apothecary Dreadnought has a multi-melta, the Apothecary Icelus has a Sniper Rifle.

    Dedicated Transport: The Apothecary Dreadnought may select a Drop Pod

    Special Rules: The Apothecary Icelus has the Quiet as the Grave, Stealth and Nimble Special Rules


    Good point on the Hit & Run count. Sleepless/Librarian Iceluses are something I've not thought about, actually.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:11 No.14498431
    So it's a combination of his being a (late) hero of the chapter and too badass to be killed, the fact he's toting around relics, and the fact that he's killing the enemy more than them?

    Why not have a "rivalry" between him and Eidelan? The former sees him as every archenemy of the chapter in his madness, from tyranid to daemon prince, while the latter thinks that Thureos offers vital clues to the nature of the Curse, and has made efforts to take him alive.

    Bonus points for one giving the other a disfiguring/crippling injury.

    Nothing major, just some chapter politics/background.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:12 No.14498451
    perhaps worded like this:

    (Note that if a Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Plasma Cannon, Multi-Melta, Lascannon or Assault Cannon is selected the Icelus loses the Nimble rule)

    Special Rules
    Acute Senses, Stealth, Move Through Cover, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, Quiet As The Grave, Nimble
    Quiet as the Grave
    All enemies suffer -1 Ld within 6" of the Icelus, or -2 if in base contact with the Icelus.
    Icelus pattern dreadnoughts are designed to have an almost freakish mobility. As such, they have the Furious Charge, Infiltrate, Hit And Run and Fleet of Foot Universal Special Rules and may roll two dice and pick the highest when running.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:21 No.14498530

    Given how we've established that Eidelen is a bit obsessed with the Sleepless, this seems like a plausible idea.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)18:21 No.14498531

    That works.

    Also...The thought of an Apothecary Icelus is very cool in my head. Just, an Icelus loping behind the Sleepless, clutching a narchecium staff in both hands.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:23 No.14498545
    I prefer the idea of a sort of drill. A bit like the one used by the ironclad dreads of codex chapters.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:25 No.14498552
    Well, I am writing something, but life has gotten in the way. If this thread continues, maybe more from the Techmarine.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)18:28 No.14498584

    How/s that?


    I'm game for a Thureos/Eidelan rivalry. Adds flavour.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)18:34 No.14498661
    Assault Squad

    Space Marine Sergeant: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
    Space Marine: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld9 Sv3+
    Unit Composition: 4 Space Marines, 1 Space Marine Sergeant
    Unit Type: Jump Infanty

    Wargear: Power armour, Chainsword, Bolt Pistol, Frag and krak grenades, Jump pack

    May include up to five additional Space Marines - +18pts/model
    For every five models in the squad one Space Marine may replace his bolt pistol with one of the following:
    -a flamer - +10pts
    -a dreamcatcher - +10pts
    -a plasma pistol - +15pts
    The Space Marine Sergeant may replace his bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:
    -a storm shield - +15pts
    -a plasma pistol - +15pts
    -a power weapon or lightning claw - +15pts
    -a power fist - +25pts
    -a thunder hammer or pair of lightning claws - +30pts

    Dedicated Transport: The squad may remove its jump packs to count as Infantry. It may then have a Drop Pod or Rhino for free. Note that upgrades must be bought as normal.

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:36 No.14498678
    Is it the wrong time to start thinking about how our heroes *look*? It's important to me that we have a certain facial look to our favorite heroes, along with what marks and symbols are on their armor, not to mention the unique weapons they carry.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:36 No.14498681
    Looks good to me. Same for the rivalry. Maybe Eidelan has come closest to catching the Sleepless--maybe even got through to him, for just a moment. And received a great wound for his trouble. Now he sees it as his duty to find him.

    I personally saw them as modified dreadnought claws, but I imagine this can be left to the modeler.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:40 No.14498727
    Hell no. I did this for the Nightmare I'm planning to play in Deathwatch. >>14497447 was based off of that.
    I figure they all have a tendency to wide stares and piercing gazes, offset by sunken eyes with very dark lines beneath them. Look at yourself in the mirror next time you pull an all-nighter and multiply that by thirty.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:40 No.14498731
    I like it. We should add in a "may upgrade to have one or more of the following psychic powers" section at some point. We should also work out how being sleepless would affect the rules of an icelus and make an upgrade for that too.

    But that's great as a core icelus.

    At 85 points it almost feels too cheap until you remember that it will be instant killed by a single missile launcher if you make the slightest mistake in its deployment and movement. Which is as it should be I think. They're durable to small arms fire but they're still very delicate by dreadnought standards.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:45 No.14498779
    Aye. I'll also take this opportunity to remind everyone of something for inspiration's sake:

    Interrogation and Intimidation are both dirt cheap for us at 100 xp all the way up. This was explained as being in part due to the Nightmares' accidentally-too-probing-and-alienating questions when they have conversations with outsiders and due to their piercing I SEE EVERYTHING type gaze.

    When a guy you've never met not only can tell you your life story by looking at your boots but actively walks up to you and volunteers the information on his own you walk away thinking he's a bit of a creep.

    The nightmares are fairly reasonable, if conservative, and are pretty "bro" but they alienate most people without meaning to just by nature of being who they are.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)18:48 No.14498806
    Night Owl Storm Squad

    Night Owl Sergeant: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
    Night Owl: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
    Unit Composition: 1 Night Owl Sergeant, 4 Night Owls
    Unit Type: Jump Infantry

    Wargear: Power armour, bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades, jump packs chainsword (the Sergeant instead has a power sword).

    May include up to five additional Night Owls: 22pts/model
    The Sergeant may replace his power sword with:
    -a lightning claw - free
    -a power fist - +10pts
    -a thunder hammer or relic blade - +15pts
    Any model may replace his bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:
    -a storm shield - +15pts
    -a plasma pistol - +15pts
    -a power weapon or lightning claw - +15pts
    -a power fist - +25pts
    -a thunder hammer - +30pts
    Any model may take melta bombs - +5pts/model
    The sergeant may take:
    -Dreamcatcher - +10pts
    -Prophetic Dreams - +15pts

    Dedicated Transport: The squad may remove its jump packs to count as Infantry. It may then have a Drop Pod or Rhino for free. Note that upgrades must be bought as normal.

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics, Heroic Intervention
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:51 No.14498842
    I tried to do this with mine, yeah. I did take Intimidate +20 and Interrogate +10.

    Since he's a Secundus scout/sniper type, I also took the Deed Canis Salient Stealth Operations. Talented (Silent Move), +10 KM and +1 Renown per assassination or stealth objective completed.

    I figured on 40k's scale, sniping a Tau Ethereal's shit and buying a planet with one shot is about right for a space marine's worthy deed. Rounded out XP with a simple Willpower advance.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:53 No.14498868
    Scribbling up some later Thureos fiction while I'm at work. Keeping it indirect since I've been away from the development for a while.

    Related, do we have any kind of cool name for the apothecary dreads?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)18:54 No.14498883

    I was thinking "Lazerus Dreadnought" or something of the like.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)18:57 No.14498915
    Phobetor or Hypnos Apothecary might work.
    I like the sound of Phobetor. It sounds appropriate. And Hypnos is a bit overplayed even if that's the name.

    How about '____ Dread Apothecary?' In this case it's both literal and figurative dread.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)18:58 No.14498929

    Funnily enough, Hypnos is the name of one of Captain Hector's lightning claws.

    Phobetor really catches my eye, I'll admit.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:01 No.14498956
    I need to head out, but before I bail, I'm putting my word behind Phobetor.
    Take heart, res/tg/uardians, I will be with you again soon. Until then watch well the sleepers.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)19:03 No.14498973
    Land Speeder Squadron

    BS4 F10 S10 R10
    Unit composition: 1-3 Land Speeders
    Unit Type: Vehicle (Fast, Skimmer)

    Wargear: Heavy Bolter

    Any Land Speeder may replace its heavy bolter with:
    -heavy flamer - Free
    -multi-melta - +10pts
    Any Land Speeder may be upgraded with one of the following:
    -a Typhoon missile launcher - +40pts
    -a tornado pattern:
    -heavy flamer - +10pts
    -heavy bolter - +10pts
    -multi-melta - +20pts
    -assault cannon - +40pts
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:04 No.14498985
    Alright, the last time I was in this thread, people came up with Thureos, the Mad Terminator, and I haven't read since then due to classes. Anyway, wrote some fluff on Icelus for the 1d4chan entry. Most of it is just combining the different stuff people came up with, but I've made some additions of my own. tell me what you think.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:05 No.14499000
    Hive World Icelus dates back to M32, after the Great Crusade after which it had a relatively stable history unworthy of much note. While the world did contribute several Guard Regiments, most of them have disappeared into the annals of time. This World gained prominence, however, when the leaders of the Administratum chose this planet to serve as the home of the newly founded Emperor’s Nightmare Chapter in M38. Though not in the least bit tiny, if the word can even be used to describe the towering places of industry, Icelus nevertheless possesses only five Hives, though each are far larger than the average and named the rather unimaginative Icelus-Primus through Quintus. Still, compared to the likes of Armageddon and Necromunda, Icelus is but a child amongst giants.

    A relatively small world by Hive World standards, Icelus suddenly found itself the focus of much attention from various forces of the Imperium after it was chosen for the high honor the High Lord of Terra had granted them. The Tech-Adepts of Mars, working in tandem with the newly created Chapter, provided changes to the Hive World, slowly shifting much production to Arms Manufacture to better provide for the Marines. Rogue Traders and other mercantile factions began visiting Icelus, now thinking the place a more valued jewel and believing themselves guaranteed relative safety due to its status as a Space Marine stronghold. Icelus grew and prospered.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:06 No.14499007
    The governing body of Noble Houses has not changed despite the ruling of the Nightmare as the world’s leaders due to the rather indirect approach favored by the Chapter. However, society has most definitely changed. The frequent appearances of the Marines have instilled a strong sense of pride amongst the populace, from the dirtiest street-urchin, to the wealthiest Noble. The colors of Purple and Yellow are considered royal colors, fit only to be used by the most influential and powerful. A twisted reflection of such beliefs are passed down in the Underhive as well, with the most cunning and ruthless gangs daring to openly display the royal colors prized so much. As time passed, and the needs and strengths of the Emperor’s Nightmare made themselves evident through rumor and hearsay, the culture of the planet began to slowly but surely focus on the Nightmares. Their sleep problems, for example, once made clear to the men and women of Icelus resulted in a near worldwide ban of all stimulants to better honor the fighting Marines, which was only narrowly beaten in the courts, though to this day, recaf and the like are considered social taboos.

    Unfortunately, not all is well within Icelus. The underhive, despite the best efforts of the Adeptus Arbites, is riddles with boltholes of mutants and criminals that thrive in the darkness below. Seedy dens are filled with drugged men, where it is not uncommon to see the symptoms of overpowered stims in the eyes of gamblers. Indeed, a thriving black market has opened in the wake of the Founding, New roads and immigrants allowed for unprecedented numbers of trafficking and the like while back-alley alchemists brew ever dangerous concoctions to sell to unwary citizens.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:09 No.14499040
    I really hate the idea of an Apothecary Icelus. It just doesn't make sense to me.

    The icelus is a stealth suit designed primarily to work alone, why is it being used to herd Sleepless when a regular dread would be both more effective and more accessible?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:09 No.14499041

    Phobetor it is, I'm definitely digging that if we want to stick with it. First part of my very short work almost done.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)19:11 No.14499060

    Point taken.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:12 No.14499071
    I like it. I have no particular opinion on some of the details so go ahead and decide some of that stuff. It's good to see exactly how many hives there are hammered out for example. Five sounds perfect to me.

    By the way guys I'll just restate myself from earlier: those first two paragraphs of the fluffy bits section in the core wiki article should probably be rewritten. They tell us what we need to know but they're some of the oldest words on that page and were put there just for the sake of collecting the information, not for sharing it again in an entertaining way.

    Since that opening section is the lead-in for the entire Emperor's Nightmare project and will make or break peoples interest in the setting and the chapter, we need to reword it a bit so there aren't words like "dreadnoughted" and the whole thing sucks you in and makes you want to read more.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)19:14 No.14499088
    Loving it.


    Space Marine Bike Squad

    Biker Sergeant: WS4 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
    Space Marine Biker: WS4 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
    Attack bike: WS4 BS4 S4 T4(5) W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
    Unit Composition: 1 Biker Sergeant, 2 Space marine Bikers
    Unit Type: Bike

    Wargear: Power armour, Bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades, Space Marine Bike

    May include up to five additional Space Marine Bikers - +25pts/model
    The Biker Sergeant may replace his bolt pistol with:
    -a plasma pistol
    -a combi-melta, -flamer or -plasma
    -a power weapon
    -a power fist
    The Biker Sergeant may take:
    -melta bombs
    Up to two bikers may replace their bolt pistols with:
    -a flamer - +5pts
    -a meltagun - +10pts
    -a plasma gun - +15pts
    Add one heavy bolter armed Attack Bike to the Squadron - +40pts
    The Attack Bike may upgrade its heavy bolter to a multi-melta - +10pts

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:14 No.14499091
    The relationship between the Marines and the Populace became strained as well after an infamous incident where a Sleepless Icelus-Pattern Dreadnought was loosed in Icelus-Primus, where it rampaged for several months, killing all who stood in its maddened way despite the great efforts of many kill teams of PDF and Nightmare alike. In the end, after billions of Thrones of damage, the death of no less than one thousand forty-eight citizens, seventeen Battle-Brothers, including even Captain Ciqala of Third Company, the combined might of Three August Dreamwalkers in Iron ended the miserable existence of the Sleepless, who’s name has been struck from record due to shame.

    As penance, the Nightmares have taken a greater role in assisting Icelus, personally sending down squads to train the PDF and taking a greater and more public stance to help the citizens of Icelus. Though relations have grown better, the solid trust that had once been between the world and its chapter have not healed.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:15 No.14499101
    "Brother-Captain! We have found something!"

    Septerus looked up from the assembly area, watching as the great Phobetor dreadnoughts gathered their

    subdued charges and herded them onto the waiting shuttles. The battle brother calling to him approached

    from across the field of battle, where the bodies of traitorous guardsmen covered the ground to the

    horizon. He held something in his hand, and though still too far for a normal man to make out, none of

    those who had won victory that day were numbered among normal. The shape in the approaching brother's

    glove was small, a stone of some sort. Yet though its natural patterns could be clearly seen, there was

    another pattern superimposed over it. In perfect, orderly rows, the stone was covered with script of

    some sort. Septerus took the rock from the battle brother to examine it closer, and all at once a

    shiver of dread ran through him. The words that covered the stone were carved into it, millimeters deep

    running in perfectly ordered lines across the curving surface of the stone. Without his augmented

    vision it would have been impossible to decipher. As it was, Septerus could see clearly exactly what

    was engraved. Over and over again, in a fashion which would be described as "mad" if not for the utter, perfect straightness of the carving, was the single phrase:


    "You'd better come with me Captain. There's more."
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:17 No.14499121
    somewhere in there you should maybe make a quick mention that this occurred very recently. Like there are still people alive who directly remember it. 50-60 years in the past tops.

    Anyway looking good.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:17 No.14499122
    Anyway, next up I'll write about the PDF and expand on those guys. It'll probably be posted in the next thread though.

    And remember, this is a collaborative project. If you disagree with any fluff, speak up! None of this is exactly set in stone.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:21 No.14499173
    Speaking of people who still remember it, we should stat up that grief hardened old grandmother as a dark heresy BBEG.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:25 No.14499218
    Same guy

    What's with trying to push the Icelus into every category? Maybe I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, but weren't the sleepless technically under the jurisdiction of Battlegroup Primus and the Icelus dreads were under Battlegroup Secundus? Meaning that any sleepless dreads would be in standard dreadnought armor (Is librarian dread armor considered standard?)

    In retrospect, I probably should've protested this earlier when it was first mentioned.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)19:27 No.14499242

    Yeah, in hindsight it was a bad idea trying to shoehorn Iceluses in, I've taken them out, and just left the Dreads.

    Land Speeder Storm

    BS3 F10 S10 R10
    Unit Composition: 1 Land Speeder Storm
    Unit Type: Vehicle (Fast, Skimmer, Open-topped

    Wargear: Heavy Bolter, Jamming Beacon, Cerberus Launcher

    Options: Replace Heavy Bolter with:
    -heavy flamer - +10pts
    -multi-melta - +15pts
    -assault cannon - +35pts
    Upgrade the Land Speeder Storm to accomidate Secundus Operatives (+1BS, no longer counts as open-topped) - +20pts

    Transport Capacity: Five Models (Scouts Only)

    Special Rules: Deep Strike, Scouts
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:32 No.14499296

    There's been only ONE Sleepless Icelus-pattern, and that was Inquisition shenanigans.

    Also, with the story about the Dreadnought escaping into the Hive, that was one of the Walking Dead, not an Icelus
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)19:33 No.14499314

    WS4 BS4 S4 T4(5) W2 I4 A2 Ld8 Sv3+
    Unit Composition: 1-3 Attack Bikes
    Unit Type: Bikes

    Wargear: Power armour, Bolt pistol, Frag and krak grenades, Space Marine Bike, Heavy Bolter


    * Any Attack Bike may upgrade its heavy bolter to a multi-melta - +10pts

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics

    Aaand Fast Attack is done, Ladies and Gentlemen.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:38 No.14499366
    Was it? I thought I remembered an old thread mentioning it was an Icelus which was why the Chapter had so much trouble tracking him down.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:41 No.14499407
    If it was an Icelus I doubt the public would've even spotted it, let alone have it become a hive-wide issue.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)19:44 No.14499445
    We're heading into Elites with a ding here, folks.

    Terminator Squad
    Unit Composition: 1 Terminator Sergeant, 4 Terminators
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Power Sword (Terminator Sergeant), Power Fist (Terminators)

    One Terminator may choose one of the following options:
    -replace his storm bolter with a heavy flamer - +5pts
    -replace his storm bolter with an assault cannon - +30pts
    -take a cyclone missile launcher - +30pts
    Any terminator may replace his power fist with a chainfist: +5/pts/model

    Dedicated Transports: The Terminator squad may select a Land Raider of any type as a dedicated transport.

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)19:46 No.14499465

    And of course, Combat Tactics.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:51 No.14499527
    >weren't the sleepless technically under the jurisdiction of Battlegroup Primus and the Icelus dreads were under Battlegroup Secundus? Meaning that any sleepless dreads would be in standard dreadnought armor (Is librarian dread armor considered standard?)

    Not quite. Sleepless are under Primus generally and the Icelus is usually DEPLOYED alongside secundus but it does not belong to either and can be found in both. It's right at the top of the dread wiki.

    There is no reason to think that there has only been ONE sleepless icelus dread. I mean, there haven't been many certainly, and this may be the persnickety difference between one and two. But there isn't officially only one.

    The node degradation could strike at any time. The general rule is "don't put someone sleepless in any kind of dreadnought" but if someone in a dread or god forbid in an icelus gets taken by the curse, fuck... there's not much they can do.

    (But yeah the sleepless that escaped into the hive was a "normal" waking dead dreadnought not an icelus)
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:52 No.14499546
    They had trouble tracking him down because he was a sleepless.

    That dreadnought librarian that took down the battle barge wasn't an icelus either iirc and they couldn't find him.

    Then again he was telekinetically hovering around in the air ducts and stuff...
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:54 No.14499570
    >The funny part is having to call an undead, waking nightmare monstrosity beyond sanity or reason "normal"
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:56 No.14499593
    Should probably let them equip assault terminator weapons as an option too. Considering that they're both a 0-1 per company squad and that they rearm from mission to mission.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)19:58 No.14499614
    Lord Adjutant Driscol - 200pts
    Prophet of the Fragmented Dreams

    WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
    6 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 2+

    Wargear: Artificer Armour, Rosarius, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades, The Eclipse of Consciousness

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, Independant Character, Honour of the Chapter, Liturgies of Battle, Messenger of a Merciless Night

    Messenger of a Merciless Night: The burden of an Endless Nightmare rests on the shoulders of Driscoll, as he, is charged with the care of the Sleepless. To represent this, if Lord Adjutant Driscoll is included in the army, you may remove the 0-1 Limit on the Sleepless.

    Eclipse of Conciousness: Bearing an axe that can only be described as a Waning Crescent, Driscoll proves to be quite the efficient combatant if met in close quarters combat. This blade, forged of materials unknown almost seems to have a mind of its own, and by its own will may strike the opposer into a coma much like that of the Narcoleptic sleep of the Emperor's Nightmare. To represent this, the Eclipse of Consciousness counts as a mastercrafted Power weapon and on a roll of a 6 removes the enemy unit from the game regardless of wounds or toughness.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)20:01 No.14499649

    Will do.
    Night Owl Bulwark team.

    Night Owl Sergeant: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
    Night Owl: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
    Unit Composition: 1 Night Owl Sergeant, 4 Night Owls
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Power armour, Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Special Issue Ammunition, Frag and krak grenades

    Options: May include up to five additional Night Owls - +25pts/mdoel
    The Night Owl Sergeant may replace his bolt pistol and/or his boltgun with:
    -a chainsword - free
    -a power weapon or lightning claw - +15pts
    -a plasma pistol - +15pts
    -a power fist - +25pts
    The Night Owl Sergeant may take:
    -melta bombs - +5pts
    -dreamcatcher - +10pts
    -Prophetic Dreams - +15pts
    Two Night Owls may replace their boltguns with:
    -a flamer, meltagun, darkfire flare rifle, heavy bolter, multi-melta or missile launcher - +5pts
    -a plasma gun, plasma cannon or heavy flamer - +10pts
    -a lascannon - +15pts
    Dedicated Transport: May select a Drop Pod, Rhino or Razorback

    Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Combat Tactics
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:01 No.14499652
    The degradation CAN strike at any time, but it's not instant insanity. Apothecaries are CONSTANTLY checking marines and dreadnoughts for signs of Sleeplessness. why would they allow someone who is becoming sleepless to stay inside what is probably the most dangerous Dreadnought pattern ever created?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:06 No.14499709

    You make it sound like something that just occurs instantaneously. There would certainly be signs of a dreadnought falling to the sleepless, and if he were in an icelus dreadnought, there would more than likely be time to switch out his suit for one of slightly less value.

    Though as my own counterpoint, it has been said that Nightmares who are marked as falling to the Sleepless keep their armor and their Battlegroup colors. My personal opinion is that this should not apply to dreadnoughts but the point can be argued.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:06 No.14499714
    because doing anything to upset a sleepless is a VERY dangerous idea.

    I imagine they'd LIKE to remove the sarcophagus from the icelus and leave it at that but there are probably horror stories of the pilot's half dead corpse somehow managing to kill his operators on the surgery table and so on.

    And it would be doubly disrespectful to just take him out and not put him in anything new. Probably better to turn them loose on the enemy. Don't forget that when a sleepless dread is pointed at the right target they are a huge asset to the Imperium.

    And the Icelus isn't the most dangerous dreadnought ever. It's certainly terrifying and awesome but it's the pilot that makes it. It can still be taken out by a well placed krak missile. It's actually way easier to hurt than a normal dread since small arms and any heavy weapons can kill it. A sleepless in any other chassis is just as dangerous, he's just more heavily armed and armoured and less quiet.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:09 No.14499743

    I'm not a TT player, but I remember for several companies, it's 1 suit o Terminator per squad, that only one Primus company uses its Terminators as a whole.

    Is there any way to make it so a Sergent can be given Terminator armor instead of a whole Terminator squad?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:10 No.14499752
    >if he were in an icelus dreadnought, there would more than likely be time to switch out his suit for one of slightly less value.

    The icelus suits are the ones of less value.

    In a way.

    They were created within the marines lifetimes. They're seen just as fucking awesome technology by most of the chapter because they literally watched them get built. The other dreadnoughts of the chapter are many thousands of years old and are ancient relics like any other dread.

    The Nightmares probably value both types of dread roughly equally but for very different reasons and given that (despite being mostly reasonablemarines) they're fairly conservative, they would likely prefer to save an ancient dreadnought to an icelus if forced to lose one or the other.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:13 No.14499796
    >You make it sound like something that just occurs instantaneously.
    Sometimes it does.

    >There would certainly be signs of a dreadnought falling to the sleepless
    Usually yes, but not always. It has always been the case that in freak occurances the node degradation can strike rapidly and with no real warning signs. There are USUALLY warning signs, but the disease is still ultimately baffling to the apothecarion who still can't seem to halt the decay.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)20:14 No.14499806

    Hrm, I don't remember hearing that...I guess I'll have to have a look.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:16 No.14499824
    Actually I think I remember that. I think two companies had a dedicated terminator unit, two companies gave theirs to their sergeants and one (5th company) gave them to any recruit who earned it, battle by battle.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:21 No.14499863
    There's only 4. First company is the Night Owls.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:23 No.14499878
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    >mfw you still don't get it

    you're still pretending like a newly diagnosed Sleepless marine is an instant threat.

    He's not, seriously do some reading on them. Once a Marine is diagnosed as sleepless, The Chapter gives him a sort of living funeral where he has one last chance to try and sleep, afterwards they just lump them together where the insanity and danger to others happens slowly over decades

    Every Sleepless that kills an ally does so because he's at the point *many years after the initial diagnosis* where he can't tell the difference between friend and foe

    The same can be said for marines that are entombed, they would be moved to new the Walking Dead chassis as soon as the funeral rites were given, and he'd accept that fate, as ALL Nightmare marines are trained to do. He's not going to fly into some fucking aspie 'roid-rage and start killing everything when they switch his chassis so that he's less of a danger to his beloved brothers.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:23 No.14499882
    >Sometimes it does.
    I really don't think so. It's not that a Nightmare suddenly snaps, it's the months and months of lack of sleep.

    If I suddenly and permanently lost the ability to sleep, it would probably be a solid week before I went nuts.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)20:24 No.14499885
    I think for simplicity's sake I'll keep it the way it is.

    The Venerable Dreadnought, Dreadnought and Ironclad Dreadnought are about to go up. No changes.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:25 No.14499894
         File1302135915.jpg-(56 KB, 400x475, inception-joseph-gordon-levitt(...).jpg)
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    We need to get a drawfag to do up Joseph Gordon-Levitt as an Emperor's Nightmare scout Marine.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:25 No.14499898
    If the Icelus Dreadnoughts aren't just guys in a chassis, why are they T 4(6)? Shouldn't it just be T6?
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)20:29 No.14499932

    Because they're durable to small arms fire, but they're far from being carnifexes. A clean krak missile or lascannon bolt will destroy them in short order.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)20:35 No.14499975

    WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv2+
    Unit Composition: 1 Techmarine
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Artificer armour, Servo-arm, Boltgun or bolt pistol, Frag and krak grenades

    Options: Upgrade servo-arm to a servo-harness - +25pts
    Replace boltgun with:
    -a storm bolter - +3pts
    -a combi-flamer, -melta or -plasma - +10pts
    -a plasma pistol - +15pts

    Take either:
    -a power weapon - +15pts
    -a thunder hammer - +30pts
    May take:
    -Signs of the Sleepless - +15pts
    -Prophetic Blueprints - +25pts
    -Dreamcatcher - +10pts
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)20:40 No.14500009
    You may include one unit of Servitors for every Techmarine or Master of the Forge in your army.
    WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv4+
    Unit Composition: 1 Servitor
    Unit Type: Infantry

    Wargear: Servo-arm

    May include up to four additional Servitors - +15pts/model
    Up to two Servitors may replace their servo-arm with:
    -a heavy bolter - +20pts
    -multi-melta or plasma cannon

    Special Rules: Mindlock
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:42 No.14500023
    >mfw someone tells me to do reading then quotes me fluff I wrote about the ritual funerals...

    But you're right. You're absolutely right.

    and I didn't mean to imply that sleepless go into a crazy maniac killing spree the second the node starts decaying.

    When I say "sometimes it does happen suddenly" I mean that the node itself rapidly decays way faster than normal over the course of a couple days instead of over a lifetime. Thus while most brothers will display warning signs, some may not, and one of those might be in a dreadnought when it happens, and it is unlikely but hardly impossible that they could go a week in what the techmarines thought was still "stasis" before the apothecarion comes by for their routine check. And while the decent into true madness is usually one that takes years, the marine does immediately start getting a sensory overload that starts forcing his mind to blur dreams and reality to adapt.

    The central point about sleepless not being removed from icelus dreads is that they're not fundementally more or less rare or more or less dangerous than any other dread. That said, an argument could be made for wanting to make the switch so they could keep track of them in case they escaped.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:46 No.14500045
    >so mad that I can't be coherent
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:46 No.14500051
    >Got picked up from work, continuing my writefaggotry from earlier about the 46th Terminator

    Striding across the wasteland behind the battle brother who guided him, Captain Septerus dwelt on what this discovery meant. For one, it cast a great deal of light on the course of the recent battle. The Emperor's Nightmares knew that the servants of Chaos were weak of courage and faith in their blasphemous gods, so it was expected for their morale to be thin. Yet they had seemed even more disheartened than usual on this day, and their forces weak. It had been as if a portion of their troops had been carved away before the battle began. Now the Captain knew the truth: their chapter's lost hero had visited the enemy. It was little wonder they had no will to fight. Even the veterans of the Nightmares dreaded to face the sleep-maddened Thureos, his precious Terminator armor moving with unimaginable speed and ferocity as he smote what he saw as the enemies of the Emperor.

    "It is just beyond this rise captain. Orbital scans revealed a number of caverns in the area, but as the enemy seemed to avoid them they were labeled strategically unimportant. It seems that they had better reason to ignore the area than we knew."

    Coming over the hill, Septerus saw at once what the Marine refered to. The natural formation of the hill was steeper on the other side, and a large concave portion of hillside formed a natural ampitheather leading down. Long strides carrying him down the steep scree, the Captain saw that the space extended under the overhang of the hill, hiding it away from orbiting eyes. And then, as his eyes traveled down to the floor of the natural amphitheater, his jaw dropped. The marine who had guided him stayed back as Septerus approached the massive shape on the floor.

    "When a squad on a post-battle sweep stopped responding, we feared there may have been traitorous survivors concealed here. But..."
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:47 No.14500055

    The marine's voice trailed off into dejected silence as the Captain came to the edge of the great shape. Laid out on the floor of the cavern was a great Imperial Aquila, large enough to park a Land Raider on. As he stooped down to replace the carved rock he held at the wingtip of the great eagle, Septerus saw that the entire shape was formed from identical carved pebbles, not a single one sticking above the others to mar the laser-flat surface. Not taking his eyes off the wonderous work, Septerus questioned the marine.

    "That cleanup crew you mentioned...?"

    "There were no survivors brother-captain. Their remains were found by the recovery team that discovered this place. They... were identified only by their armor, their heads unrecognizable."

    Septerus's head bowed at the news. 4 marines dead. Almost half their losses from the day, inflicted without warning by one they would have respected and pitied.

    "Assemble search teams, take any land speeders that have not already been recalled. If he can be located, whatever steps necessary must be taken to recover Thureos."

    "Yes brother-captain" As the Marine turned to follow his orders, Septerus gazed once again at the masterpiece before him. He must have been here longer than we, hunting the Great Enemy, Septerus thought. Perhaps the arrival of the Nightmare forces convinced him to fall back from what he saw as demonic reinforcements. Thureos would be far gone by now, his inhuman speed and stealth far more than they were equipped for. He would not be apprehended here, and would continue to plague the chapter into the future. Yet as Septerus gazed at the holy symbol filling the space before him, he could think of nothing but the mind that could create such a thing, and of the day that he too might face such an existence.
    >> SC Guy 04/06/11(Wed)20:49 No.14500070
    Living Dead Dreadnought

    WS5 BS4 S6 F12 S12 R10 I5 A3(4)
    Unit Composition: 1 Dreadnought
    Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker)

    Wargear: Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with built-in storm bolter, Dreadnought close combat weapon with built-in meltagun, Smoke launchers

    Options: Replace storm bolter with heavy flamer: +10pts
    Take a searchlight - +1pt

    Dedicated Transport: Can select a Drop Pod

    Special Rules: Fleet, Furious Charge, None Can Stay My Wrath, Rage
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:49 No.14500071

    YES! Continue, please, good sir.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:58 No.14500137
    Thureos: The one over the top mary sue special character so fucking badass that the sue just increases how awesome he is.

    What's next for our man Thureos?
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)20:59 No.14500150
    281 posts. New thread soon-soon
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)21:04 No.14500191


    New thread.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)21:05 No.14500200
    I mean seriously: we have our own C. S. Goto backflipping terminator here. They're both completely ridiculous and over the top.

    In fact, the only remotely noticeable difference between these two characters is that ours is fucking awesome.
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)21:06 No.14500211
    And he hasn't done backflips... yet...

    ...brb, gotta go write something
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)21:08 No.14500230
    Backflip hatchet attack, spetsnaz style
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)21:11 No.14500246
         File1302138672.jpg-(187 KB, 600x400, 1854.Spetsnaz[1].jpg)
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    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)23:16 No.14501656
    This may have been brought up before, this is the only thread I have read, but I have a solution to the status of sleeplessness in the chapter. I have read that REM sleep is the main recuperating factor of sleep; as an insomniac, experience and the above information lead me to deduce: short naps only postpone sleep-deprivation psychosis and the worst effects of the the fatigue, not offer any real healing from fatigue. Perhaps this could be a factor of what creates the Sleepless.

    Consider: All brothers become one of the Sleepless eventually. What allows some to become chapter leadership is devotion to "naptime rites", similar to what is described in the Deathwatch information. The Sleep can fall upon any brother at any time, but if he is devoted to these rites he can postpone it for however long it can. All the brother can do is pray the rites keep him from insanity until he dies in battle.

    This may be too thematically similar to the Blood Angels, but I think it offers a solid answer to justify the inevitability of The Sleep, while leaving room to justify few members reaching venerable age in command. It also instills a theme of effort in the face of futility, which has always been my favorite part of 40k, and separates grimdark from grimderp
    >> Anonymous 04/06/11(Wed)23:25 No.14501754

    Sorry, I made an editing error. change all examples of describing someone as being "one of the Sleepless" to "succumbing to The Sleep"

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