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  • File : 1301167939.jpg-(96 KB, 510x510, evangelion-02.jpg)
    96 KB THE GRIMDARKEST GAME EVER Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:32 No.14374328  
    It's simple. As it was briefly suggested by me in that Soviet AdEva thread a week ago: take Adeptus Evangelion and change the setting to WW2. You'll shit bricks.
    SEELE are now the good guys. Yes, the (mostly) Jewish cabal secretly running the world and plotting the Instrumentality are positively noble when compared to the ones trying to wrestle power from them.
    Just imagine the unnamed horrors that Dr. Mengele or Unit 731 might be experimenting with, and you'll understand. The Allies must stop at nothing - NOTHING - to crush this nightmare, and however ghastly the Eva pilots' fate might be, however abhorrent the Prototype units are to nature, you WILL fight on against all odds, lest the abyss of a new Dark Age - or worse - consume all.
    Ideas and suggestions welcome.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:34 No.14374344
    add space marines
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:37 No.14374374
    This is still not the grimdarkest game.
    Try again with WW1. Maybe add Serbia or one of those depressing countries over there.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:39 No.14374394
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    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:43 No.14374423
    add hellboy kinda stuff. Also, nazi super science and dieselpunk everywhere.

    Ahnenerbe on da block, yo!

    oh, and also: neo-pagan nazi evas

    Mit Pickelhauben
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:46 No.14374442

    >There is a Gnostic religion called the Tempelhofgesellschaft founded in the early 1990s in Vienna, Austria that distributes pamphlets claiming that the Aryan race originally came to Atlantis, from the star Aldebaran (this information is supposedly based on "ancient Sumerian manuscripts"). The Tempelhofgesellschaft maintains that the Aryans from Aldebaran derive their power from the vril energy of the Black Sun. They teach that since the Aryan race is of extraterrestrial origin, it has a divine mission to dominate all the other races. It is believed by adherents of this religion that an enormous space fleet is on its way to Earth from Aldebaran which, when it arrives, will join forces with the Nazi flying saucers from Antarctica to establish the Western Imperium.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:47 No.14374444
    It's always midnight and raining.
    >> -|- Reichsguard -|- !!Q3opPDaKzPo 03/26/11(Sat)15:47 No.14374446
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    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:49 No.14374468
    This forces everyone to live from soilent green.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:52 No.14374493
    why so safeguard?

    >Siegmund stworr

    captcha just found a name for a nazi pilot.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:53 No.14374502
    The NERV base has to be called Zion, if only for the jokes.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:53 No.14374507
    ...oh you.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)15:58 No.14374551
    Poor taste, guys. Very poor taste.

    Also, the argument for Instrumentality suddenly makes more sense as a response to the horrors of WW2. We don't see Second Impact on-screen, but everyone knows about Axis war crimes. Ending that would seem pretty compelling.

    What would WW2 SEELE's composition look like? American, Russian, English...Chinese? Indian?
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)16:19 No.14374795
    Tang bump.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)16:20 No.14374805
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    All attempts to make something fucked up are doomed to live in the shadows of Requiem: Vampire Knight.

    It was the most fucked up thing in the history of everything ever.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:22 No.14377727
    Bump from page 15!
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:23 No.14377737
    How messed up?
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:25 No.14377744
    Seele would just be a jewish conspiracy. This would make the Nazi's the good guys.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:25 No.14377754
    Didn't someone claim to have proof that NGE is set is in an alternative history/present where the axis powers won?
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:27 No.14377763
    Vampire Knight is so fucking hilarious

    My favorite part is the bit about how he had to keep it secret even from himself in case someone read his mind.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:27 No.14377765
    soooooo are we just rewriting the entire plot line of the source material to subvert our inferiority complex concerning the japanese?

    cause if so, i think we are officially worse than the weeaboos.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:28 No.14377771
    Can i have a pair of shoes?
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:31 No.14377806
    I think I read part of this. It wasnt fucked up, it was just a little silly.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:41 No.14377890
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    ITT: /tg/ fails to run with a good idea, wallows in own shit.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 03/26/11(Sat)22:44 No.14377921

    It's that one line, at which what you are reading is so needlessly grim that you are no longer capable of taking it seriously. Further grim only serves to make it more ridiculous and amusing. It's a very personal thing to define,but has to be kept in mind, because nothing will destroy your grim campaign more than people who can't take it seriously.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:46 No.14377937
    The concentration camps are processing facilities for the quick and simple production of
    a) LCL
    b) Replacement EVA biomass
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:50 No.14377970
    Rommel is the soul inside of one of the German EVAs.

    Hitler recalled and executed him expressly for this purpose, hoping to have his tactical genius crystallized within the biowarmachine.

    Unfortunately, the EVA in question is quite insane. Even more than usual.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)22:56 No.14378015
    I'd say that the ideas are a bit in poor taste OP, but it could be just me. I'd say check with your players before going with ideas like >>14377937.
    Otherwise, EVA vs EVA madness with the threat of Angel attacks? Outstanding, it's a great setting.
    >> Anonymous 03/26/11(Sat)23:04 No.14378103
    Didn't Dust do this? Or something else had a ww2 mecha thing with germans invoking angels
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)01:33 No.14379206
    Precisely what I had in mind. What I'd like to know is how to invoke the feel of each nation's Eva project. Got some rough ideas:
    - USSR: deformed, jury-rigged, largely biological units, rushed to the frontlines before the paint can dry and piloted by brainwashed orphans or just early Manufactured clones. Driven almost entirely by prisoner labor - even the Ops Director and the head of research are from Gulag - but at least they don't use people as fuel and fodder like the Axis. Morale isn't all that bad, as most of the specialists understand that even such conditions are infinitely preferable to defeat. Some of the experimental biotech is superior to other nations', and the NKVD is paranoid as fuck about keeping it secret. Don't fully cooperate with SEELE, taking a very dim view of their goal as incompatible with materialism and communism.
    - Britain: perhaps a little brighter on the surface? The pilots are all volunteers and quite enthusiastic, the units (equal part Eva and machine) are customized for stealth warfare, naval and aerial missions. All the better for their top ace to go mad once he simply gets a good look at the German facilities they've just bombed.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)02:03 No.14379241
    It wouldn't make them good, but they would be right about most things now.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)02:16 No.14379318
    More USSR = human waves, HOW ORIGINAL
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)02:21 No.14379345
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    I hereby move that there needs to be at least one Nazi pilot with a sweet Schmiss. Probably a pointman, steadfast and uncompromising in both dedication and honor.

    No, I think you're thinking Jin-Roh. But this is Eva, there are a bazillion theories regarding it.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)03:36 No.14379912
    - USA: heavily mechanized, largely flying or air-dropped units, fighting a hit-and-run battle against Japanese naval superiority. Underneath the patriotism and propaganda, a large amount of personnel are indoctrinated into SEELE's dogma and form a secret Instrumentality cult. The FBI tries to stamp it out, fearing it to be a commie plot.
    - Germany: enormous, heavily armored monstrosities, gorged on souls, nearly rabid and barely kept in check by fanatical child soldiers. Some experimental Tesla tech is used later in the war. Both the Allied High Command and SEELE's War Committee have issued orders for everything even remotely related to the Final Solution/Operation Nachtmahr to be incinerated on sight; however, against their better judgment, every now and then they want something for capture and study...
    - Japan: they're the ones who stole Adam from SEELE; the Allies have to make do with old data and samples. Weird Angel-like units, with an emphasis on naval warfare and advanced psychic abilities (which they get by absorbing hundreds of tortured and insane prisoners). Recovering Adam is vital for SEELE, but every mission against the home islands so far has ended in spectacular failure.
    It can't be helped, lawl. The PCs can be an elite force, using the larger and more successful Eva units, while smaller, stunted clones - perhaps quadrupedal, with animal-like behavior - are used as shock troops, expected to go berserk if they penetrate enemy lines and reach the end of their cables.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)04:09 No.14380143
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)06:42 No.14381102
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    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)07:22 No.14381289
    1 ...437 ... 437 ... 4 ... gaaahh~

    Two feet! (and a polite sage on my way to the oven)
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)11:31 No.14382693
    NERV London works perfectly. Blitz= Angel attack. Maybe unholy hybrids between Angels and Eva?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)14:01 No.14383777
    >Soviet AdEva thread a week ago: take Adeptus Evangelion and change the setting to WW2

    I'm glad to see my threads have caused ideas.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)14:05 No.14383808
    >Good guys

    Nope, im not a antisemite or think they secretly run the world but the shit they are doing to the palestinians makes me unable to picture them as good guys, ever.
    Inb4 "arablover"
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)14:10 No.14383843

    Don't want to go here but Likud and the settler movement =/= Jewish people in general or even Israelis in general
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)14:17 No.14383903
    Let's keep it going. Anyone comes up with more stuff, and I could write up a test piece, with a little fluff and new rules.
    Some more thoughts on various mass production units (depending on the campaign, the PCs could use them, the custom-made Prototype units like in the vanilla book, or progress from the former to the latter)
    - OBM-41: the workhorse of the Soviet AT Corps, a squat crab-like creature (Size: Scrawny), covered with light steel armor, limping along on a varying number of stalks. Depending on the objective, they are rigged with a combination of AAMGs, 57-mm guns and flamethrowers, although the two mighty claws are their most effective weapon against German Evas. Grown in hunderds - mostly at underground factories in the Urals - they're definitely the most numerous Eva unit currently in service, though inferior pilot training, tactics and comms mean that this alone doesn't give the Russians an overwhelming superiority. The basic design remains unchanged for two years; significant innovations could slow down production and leave the fronts weakened. One useful improvenment that started appearing in '42 is the "Stimulation package" installed next to the entry plug behind the creature's only eyestalk. It contains a single huge injection of potent drugs and a synch-cutting device. In case the 5km-long extension cable is cut or the unit gets to its end, the pilot has instructions to activate it, Berserking the OBM in about 50/50 cases. Then, if the unit is still functional after about three hours' rampage, the drugs' after-effect instills a sense of fear and docility in it, making it flee back to friendly lines and allowing it to be easily subdued.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)14:18 No.14383913
    - RATF Deliverance-class: undoubtedly the most successful British unit, this scarab-like MP Eva rivals lesser Prototype units in power and versatility. It has been used to great effect as a heavy bomber, A.T. support flyer and in a recon/commando role. Floating 30.000 feet above German defences, it routinely bombs occupied Europe with either conventional munitions or its own temporary organs wrapped in an AT field; the latter allows for great precision, and is the preferred method for disrupting the "hell-works", as the Nazi Evangelion project is known amongst Allied personnel. For self-defence it relies in part on 40mm Bofors AA guns, but it is the pilots' A.T. mastery that makes it a deadly foe. All of them are skilled in defensive powers, but the child prodigies inducted into the Order of the Dragon - the top-secret A.T. Warfare department of the SAS - also wield numerous other abilities, giving them an edge over any German aerial Eva and terrifying the conventional Luftwaffe forces.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)14:20 No.14383933
    This made me want to rewatch NGE, but then I remembered all the drama and derp. Stupid sexy fightan robots, why do you always have to have a heavy story?
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)14:26 No.14383997
    Just watch Rebuild, it's exactly what you seem to want.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)14:40 No.14384121
    "Hey guys, The USSR used tons of human waves of infantry during WWII. That's why in my alternate WWII setting they only use high-tech 'quality over quantity' troops, because it's historically accurate."
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:04 No.14384345
    CV-X (USS Constitution)

    An American project shrouded in rumor, echoing earlier attempts to construct a gigantic aircraft carrier out of ice (Habakkuk, courtesy of the British). This new ship design was meant to be even larger and quite a bit more damage-resistant; a floating fortress from which to launch a spectacular amount of aircraft.

    The ship was to incorporate a vast amount of biological hardware, provided by the numerous EVA projects under American control. These parts would be used to generate protective AT-Fields, assist in target detection, gunnery, navigation, and other operations, and also to provide a significant capacity for self-repair. If launched, the CV-X would constitute a significant threat to every Axis naval group in its theater of operation.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:08 No.14384382
    Problem with Rebuild.

    It'll never be finished, you'll never see the other 2 movies.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:10 No.14384399
    I... what?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:12 No.14384410
    Japan is doomed.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:15 No.14384431
    Why? Did the earthquake wake Lilith?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:23 No.14384488
    Watch Star Driver. Barely has a plot.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:26 No.14384511
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    >> Libyan Mechwarrior 03/27/11(Sun)15:27 No.14384520

    >Don't fully cooperate with SEELE, taking a very dim view of their goal as incompatible with materialism and communism.

    I'm okay with the 'don't fully cooperate' part, but, well, hardly anyone in the USSR took communism seriously even back during Uncle Joe's time, moreso during the war.

    Sharashkas were also separate from the GULAG, but convict labor is probably okay.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:33 No.14384559
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    >hardly anyone in the USSR took communism seriously even back during Uncle Joe's time, moreso during the war.

    Yeah and the Germans didn't take national socialism seriously, right?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:34 No.14384570
    >If launched, the CV-X would constitute a significant threat to every Axis naval group in its theater of operation.

    Except the tropics.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)15:34 No.14384572
    The Japanese would likely make a Yamato-class sea monster to counter it. BTW, an idea for their light MPEs: a swarm of small crow-like units (an obvious name would be "Tengu"), piloted by psychic link from a nearby heavy cruiser or battleship (as the biotech for said link takes up a LOT of space). They can be used either as conventional fighters or light Enroachers; although their only psychic attack is an aura of fear and uncertainty, it works well against inexperienced regular personnel. Recently, the IJN has been experimenting with mounting the psychic transmitter on a superheavy submarine, which would be much harder to hunt down and force the Americans to fight the swarm head-on or flee.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:37 No.14384588
    More like a rather sensible distrust of a shadowy foreign power with heavy backing from (current) allies.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:40 No.14384620
    Yamato vs. Constitution: War in the Pacific

    I'd watch it.
    >> Libyan Mechwarrior 03/27/11(Sun)15:40 No.14384624

    During the war? I don't think so Tim.

    The USSR actually scaled down on communism when they gave Trotsky the boot, and while the Agitprop was all about communism in the 80s/90s/2000s, it switched to FIGHT FOR MOTHERLAND mode for the duration of the war.

    As for the Soviet leadership, I hardly believe they believed their own ideology, being more concerned about not getting purged(Stalin's times) and not getting drummed-out of Politburo and losing their power and privileges(Khruschev's and Brezhnev's time). 'Not getting purged' mindset also applies to wartime USSR, mind you, although a number of would-be Politburo members actually did shit during the war - and by 'did shit' I mean 'fight at the frontline', although Brezhnev wasn't one of them.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)15:44 No.14384655
    Yes, let's turn this into one big historical argument. Clearly that will greatly improve the quality of the thread, and not be shit at all. Clearly.
    >> Libyan Mechwarrior 03/27/11(Sun)15:55 No.14384749

    I'm shutting up and going off to play me some Crysis.

    OP should keep going, because this thread's fantastic, and I promise I won't derail it by hatin' on Brezhnev.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)15:57 No.14384763
    I just realized that it needs a good power source. Perhaps a solar battery (would work great at that height), supplemented by Beast Mode in the hands of more experienced pilots and, late-war, a refuelling zeppelin with a nuclear reactor?
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)16:00 No.14384791
    (speaking of that, are there any devs/testers here who have an idea of the rules for Beast Mode? It could be a decisive factor, used by aces on both sides.)
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:01 No.14384801
    >when you're as young as I am

    ...backwards aging?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:02 No.14384808
    I just realized that an AT-Field could be used to compress fuel and initiate a fusion reaction. This probably wouldn't make an appearance in the war except near the very end, and it would probably just be used to make bigger bombs or something.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:04 No.14384823
    What? Do you have a problem with people having discussions or something?
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)16:06 No.14384844
    Also, feel free to describe some horrifying, intensely fucked-up human experiments that the Axis research teams could be conducting. Normal people should roll for fear and trauma just upon learning their details.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:09 No.14384860
    Ever seen the Human Centipede?

    That, but on an industrial scale.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)16:09 No.14384863
    (note to self: ask /d/ and /x/ to suggest something too)
    >> Libyan Mechwarrior 03/27/11(Sun)16:11 No.14384874

    Immense warship diesel engines?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:19 No.14384938
    Soviet gear was as good, if not better, than Nazi gear for most of the war and post-1943 they outplayed them on an operational and strategic level.

    But no, let's just repeat the idiotic stereotype, which is about as cliche as Elves all being archers or mages and Dwarves all swinging axes.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:20 No.14384946
    Humans create a weak A.T. Field that stops us from Tanging, right? Well, it doesn't seem to take any ATS to maintain, and Evas don't tang in the presence of an anti-A.T. field, so perhaps it's a function of human biology.

    Obviously we need to amplify it's power, by turning a group of 500 humans into a super-organism, perhaps via surgery, or vat growing. Then we could fuse them with their evas to give them defensive powers that are independent of ATS.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:26 No.14384988
    Problem: Pilots are difficult to control.

    Solution: Pending.

    Imagine an operating room. Incredibly clean, full of modern (for the '40s) equipment, and a few technologies that shouldn't yet exist. Strapped to the bed in the center of the room is a young woman of about 14, eyes wide, mouth open. Resting in a steel basin on a table beside her is the top of her skull, neatly removed by a surgeon with flexible hands. The skin on her arms and legs has been peeled back in neat little flaps, exposing pulsing squares of muscle. The numerous probes inserted into these areas send little jolts of electricity into the tissue, while three men watch from behind, staring intently at the patient's brain.

    From time to time, one of them will prod it, muttering something in German and scribbling in a little yellow notebook. He finds the whole exercise distasteful, but is forced to admit that this is a far better use for the Juden than hard labor. After an hour of observation, he motions to the others, and they depart for the next room, leaving the patient alone with the nurses. The monitors continue to run, scribing the pulse of her heart and brain to spools of tape. With what little mind she has left, she thanks God that she is worth observing.

    For those that aren't, there is no hope.
    >> Libyan Mechwarrior 03/27/11(Sun)16:29 No.14385009

    >runs out of the 'Mech hangar to puke

    That's some horrible shit, man. Horrible.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:31 No.14385028
    It doesn't stop the fact that their soldiers were horribly equiped. Their tanks and guns were good, but they didn't have enough of them.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:32 No.14385047

    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:34 No.14385066
    I can do more. Perhaps some Allied experiments? The CIA certainly did some interesting things.
    >> Libyan Mechwarrior 03/27/11(Sun)16:35 No.14385074

    Uh, there wasn't any "one rifle for two" bullshit in 1943, I'll give you that.

    And what applies to infantry doesn't apply to tanks and sure as hell doesn't apply to EVAs.
    >> Libyan Mechwarrior 03/27/11(Sun)16:37 No.14385095

    It would be actually appropriate. Only make it young boys instead of girls if you would.

    But... but... shit's still horrifying, man.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:38 No.14385101
    Breeding programs! Juden/angel hybrids, even some of the master race, since obviously they must be much closer to the angelic forebearers.

    Maybe grafts of evangelion or angelic flesh directly onto human flesh?

    Perhaps they even have a working S2 organ or two... the problem being that it literally devours whatever pilot is inside of it within a couple hours. If removed before that time, the pilots are emaciated, and invariable go insane within a day, and tang within a week.

    Maybe they're trying to crack the mysteries of anti-AT fields, and and working to figure out how to selectively tang Juden? At the moment, these experiments have resulted in people becoming partially tanged. Organs, bones and facial structures melting upon exposure to the energies.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:40 No.14385122
    That's kind of the point, yes? Grimdark enough to be nauseating, but not to the point of absurdity.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)16:41 No.14385126
    Are you kidding me? The T-34 is the second most produced tank in history. The problems they suffered early in the war were mostly organizational and their high command not knowing what their army was and wasn't capable of.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)17:00 No.14385304
    Infantry gear: way better, no questions here. Vehicles: superior on paper, but nearly always held down by less obvious factors like poor targeting equipment, lack of radios, cramped conditions and, worst of all, the frequently non-existent tactical skill. Morale was also pretty awful (like, worse than in France a year before awful) during the first months, which meant that the world's heaviest and most numerous armored force was largely abandoned or blown up. In 1943, the long-barreled StuGs and Tigers also started making a serious impression, while the PzIV G/H/Js were also at least equal to T34-85s and very dangerous to Mod.'42s. The Tigers were more useful than in the West due to not getting pwned from above as often, while the Panther's sloped front armor and better firing rate gave it an edge over the IS-2 at long range.
    That is not to say that the Soviet tank armies weren't stronger overall; they were just operating at lower efficiency.
    (sorry, I just can't resist discussing WW2 shit)
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:07 No.14385356
    Working this way is difficult. There are so many puzzles to piece together. So many things to discover, to link together, to study and use. But there are no years in university labs, no high-profile grants or bright-eyed grant students to rely on. This is the devil's work. Quick, filthy, enough to sully a man's soul in a day. How else can they be defeated?

    The facility is underground, beneath a major American city. The crew is multinational; sometimes it seems there are men from every nation walking these halls. Even Germans, defectors and prisoners both. It is their imagination and expertise that makes this... thing possible.

    The A Wing is the least troubling. Examinations are done here. Children are brought in, tested, sent away if they are deficient. Most are male. Standards are high, of course. Mental acuity, physical toughness, resistance to pain. Orphans are favored, both for their hardy upbringing and lack of family to ask questions. Those that pass are sent deeper.

    Each section is a Wing, like a hospital. There are many, such that none have seen them all. Not that they would want to. In B Wing, there is a room in which new “recruits” are trained to react quickly, by a quaint little machine that rewards failure with a mild electric shock. In E Wing, there is a similar room that selects for compliance to orders. One of those who failed to pass D Wing is restrained in the center. There are tools of many kinds strewn about him. The little soldiers lined up against the wall are told to do certain things to him. Those that refuse will replace the victim in successive tests.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:08 No.14385365
    G Wing is the deepest I have gone. There are levels of hell below this, but I will not see them. I cannot.

    It is here that trainees are first considered Pilots. The rate of attrition is abhorrent. Psychological adjustment is... I have seen pictures taken from the wards in Poland, and I cannot call them worse. Here, in this place, monsters are born. Berserkers. They are inhuman. They laugh and giggle at the infliction of pain. To themselves as well as others. They kill and maim at the slightest provocation. They have such appetites for destruction as cannot be satisfied by the most grotesque atrocities.

    But they sync. They sync at 80, even 90 in some cases. They willingly expose themselves to fire, survive damages I cannot fathom, and still they force their Units to crawl forward, snarling and gnashing their teeth as they tear their targets asunder. They howl as they die.

    I will not survive the war. And that is the greatest mercy I can be granted.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)17:09 No.14385378
    >Uh, there wasn't any "one rifle for two" bullshit in 1943, I'll give you that.
    Yeah, it was more like, I'd imagine, 9 PPSh's, 9 Moist Nuggets, an old but decent LMG and a semi-auto SVT rifle, against 17 98k's, a couple MP40s and an LMG34 (pretty good) or an LMG42 (could reverse the odds, depending on the situation). That's all pure conjecture, don't hold me to it.
    Yawn, I'm tired and got some work tomorrow. See ya.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:10 No.14385392
    A) Many of those tanks were made after the end of the war.

    B) Still not enough guns.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)17:11 No.14385403
    That's the kind of shit I had in mind, thanks.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:15 No.14385430
    Any suggestions for more?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:20 No.14385478
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    Tactical skill isn't a failing of the equipment though, more of their training. You're right about the soft specs, but the German tanks were also lacking in those (Fuel guzzling, hard to maintain and repair, difficulty across rough terrain, no standardized design and parts, etc). The Allies understood how to fight an industrial war - the Germans didn't. From a tanker's perspective, it's preferable to be in a German tank, but from a General's perspective, it's better to convert your resources into lots of reliable Russian tanks instead of a smaller number of unreliable German tanks.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:20 No.14385481
    not that guy, but i have an idea. Will write later on, though my knowledge of adeva is lacking.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)17:25 No.14385520
    Importing a certain chemical from Switzerland in hopes of improving the pilots' control of AT powers? It could add some ATS, give the Spark of Genius talent that lets you use powers you don't know, and let you slip from an Enroacher's grasp, but endanger your Sanity and Ego Barrier if you look too closely at the shit you're fighting.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)17:32 No.14385579
    Speer worked miracles on war production, though. Had he got the job in 1940 and convinced Hitler to drop all the impractical stuff, most of us would either be born into slavery, live amongst irradiated ruins, or both.
    >> Libyan Mechwarrior 03/27/11(Sun)17:34 No.14385599
    Soviet EVAs still deserve to be better than deformed rag-tag monstrosities though. It's not like they suffer from the lack of radios or cramped entry plugs.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:36 No.14385612
    No. Speer takes credit for work done before him, he just happened to take office as the effects of those measures kicked in. Recommend The Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze's for more detail.

    Nazi Germany was fucked from the beginning. America is literally 50% of the world's industrial capacity at the time, once they get involved, there's no winning. Germany's nuclear program was also a joke, nowhere near completion.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:42 No.14385672
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    Soviets counted this as a great victory, look at the losses, fucking human wave tactics, no finesse.
    >> Libyan Mechwarrior 03/27/11(Sun)17:45 No.14385699

    Russia is not America. Russia is not even Europe.

    No reason it should care about immense casualties.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:50 No.14385745
    They didn't 'count' it as a victory. The battle of kursk stopped the nazi offensive dead in its tracks.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:52 No.14385757
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    Mein Gott...

    Until I read this and the thread before, I've never wanted to play AdEva.

    I am now convinced: this will be my next setting.

    Thanks /tg/, stay classy.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:54 No.14385780
    And just think how much sooner they could've stopped it if they actually used strategy beyond throwing endless waves of men at the enemy.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)17:56 No.14385795
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    >Objective was to stop German Offensive
    >Objective completed
    >Decisive Soviet victory
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)18:02 No.14385852
    With the technology's highly experimental nature and the rough conditions in many factories, they'd probably get a huge percentage of flawed clones. Considering how grim things are (by late 1943, the Axis is both pushing in every direction, amassing a next-generation force for a knockout blow and cooking up something truly blasphemous), it's better to throw them at the enemy then cast them into the Boneyard straight away.
    Here's another idea for weird Allied shit: a detachable brain implant that's basically an Angelic fetus, "splitting" and spreading out all emotions (but not conscious thoughts) in equal doses among all hosts whose implants have the same "frequency". It interferes with synch, but can be used by important personnel or agents on the ground to withstand whatever horrors they might face... as long as their memories can be wiped before removal.
    Should really go to sleep. Yeah. Any minute now.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:04 No.14385871
    So they didn't win because they didn't win in a manner you find appropriate. Right.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)18:08 No.14385901
    Oh, and it should be clear by now that I don't mean for the Axis to be a playable side at all; you wouldn't complain if a DM didn't let you play as Azatoth in a serious Lovecraftian campaign, would you?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:10 No.14385927
    I would complain if I couldn't play a cultist of Azazoth.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:17 No.14385975
    You fucking idiot. Kursk was a Soviet defensive action, they basically dug in where they thought the Nazis were going to attack, and the Nazis charged into it like the idiots they were. Only a dumbshit like you would call a defensive action "human wave tactics". 1 point for the Soviets.
    The Soviets set up multiple lines of defense, greater than 200km thick. The Nazis slammed into it and didn't even break through a tenth of the total depth. Another point for the Soviets.
    The attack completely chewed up the remainder of the Nazi mobile armor reserves. This meant not only being unable to undertake any future offenses but also being unable to defend against any future Soviet offenses. A counteroffensive that had been in preparation was immediately launched after Kursk, and the Nazis never regained the strategic initiative ever again. They spent the remainder of their days trying to hold the front and failing most of the time. Another point for the Soviets.
    So basically calling Kursk a Nazi victory is like calling somebody who headbutts a concrete fall and shatters their skull a winner. But don't let facts and rational analysis get in the way of your idiotic "RATIO IS EVERYTHING" mentality worthy of a preteen FPS player.
    >> OP 03/27/11(Sun)18:19 No.14386001
    Yeah, well... the analogy's wrong, OK. Would you complain about not being able to play an SS guard at Auschwitz?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:25 No.14386056
    >Soviets were dug in
    >set up multiple lines of defense, greater than 200km thick
    >Still lost 5 times as many men and several times more tanks and guns than the Germans

    You know it's the attacker that's supposed to loose more men and material storming fortified positions right?
    Also I never claimed it as a Nazi Victory, only that it's a excellent example showing that the Soviets won the war only due to the fact they had more meat to throw into the meatgrinder, they were inferior soldiers to the germans in every aspect.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:26 No.14386067
    That doesn't really sound fun.

    Still, I think you should make all the factions playable. Its okay if they're utterly broken, because you can make a note that "this is intended for antagonist use" and "not to be taken as a reasonable level of power in terms of counts-as" or whatever.

    And yeah, I think even the angels should be playable in regular AdEva -- not normally allowed but there are scenarios in which it would seem logical.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:32 No.14386131
    Nazis use mules for logistics
    Soviets build fricking railroads right behind german lines.

    Once the Sovs got a breakthru (finger in the german asshole, they exploit it in way the germs never could (anus ripped wide open)
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:35 No.14386155
    Really? You'd want to play a cultist in a CoC game?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:38 No.14386175
    Both sides used trains, trucks, horses, mules whatever for logistics, the Russians had more though since America sent them a shitload of stuff, without that the war coudl have gone a whole different direction.
    Source on Russians sneaking behind german lines and building railroads please, sounds fascinating.
    Please answer my points on how the dug in russian defenders lost 5 times as many men against the germans when you get time.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:39 No.14386191
    So if you want to play one, ask your DM. If he's okay with it he can make you some stats. There's no good reason to include those kinds of characters in the core rules.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:50 No.14386294
    It wasn't "sneaking", it was punching thru and bring up the mostest the fastest.

    The nazis could never exploit a breakthru the same way the sovs did at the war's end.

    The nazi's favorable kill ratio was based on the fact that they fought an unprepared sov forces. By the end of the war, the Sovs got really really prepared and ultimately raped their way thru east germany
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:54 No.14386345
    It's not the Soviet Victory part that he's arguing about, it's the Decisive part.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:57 No.14386382
    >Soviets won the war only due to the fact they had more meat to throw into the meatgrinder, they were inferior soldiers
    >Soviets won the war
    And that's it. If your production capapbilities and population is bigger - you exploit it. Losing 4x as many men and equipment meant that the soviet were still pulling ahead.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)18:59 No.14386398
    It was decisive as fuck - it stopped the german advance. How much more decisive can you get when you stop losing terrain and start gaining it?
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)19:02 No.14386419
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    Yeah but, that's not behind German line per say, if they punched through it was sovietcontrolled territory, you made it sound like they sent thousands of workers behind german lines and built railroads in secret.

    Well, the germans did pretty good both in Poland, france and Russia with breakthroughs I'd say, but blitzkrieg has a natural point it can't go further then before it begins to crumble, Russia is to big to use it effectively for a long time.

    Kursk, the battle in question, was fought in the summer of 1943, hardly the beginning of Barbarossa.
    The russians were dug in, knew the germans were coming, had superior manpower and vehicular strenght and suffered 5 times as big losses, against an attacking enemy.
    You can't explain that away with "they weren't prepared".

    As for the russians tearing through the german front later on it was bound to happen, Germany had no way to keep up with the industrial power of most of the industrialised world, fight a two front war and supply new troops in as large amount as the allies.

    The soviets did a hell of a job to push the germans back and finally take Berlin, but without the other allies it would hardly have been possible and on average they were much poorer soldiers than both german, brits and Americans.

    You sound a little much like a 40k fanboy treating the USSR as his favorite faction for my liking.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)19:04 No.14386442
    Because the Red Army back then was composed mostly of poorly trained ex-peasants and factory workers defending their land. Many talented officers were sent to GULAG and died before the war started, replaced by LOLNEWBS loyal to government. Of course they had a lot of casualties! Try looking for later battles when Germany tried to stop Soviet offensive. Rag-Tag army turned into hardened veterans with good morale, tables are turned.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)19:06 No.14386466
    That's not the point im trying to make, im using Kursk as an example to show that Russian forces was of worse quality than german forces, so the whole human wave tactics has some truth to it.
    Never said they didn't win the war, they did, the same way they won against the swedes and against Napoleon.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)19:12 No.14386518
    Summer 1943 was not the beginning of the Eastern front, the fighting had been going on for two years.
    That's plenty of time to make "LOLNEWBS" into veterans, work out tactics, not to mention that the victory at Stalingrad was several montsh old, a huge boost to morale.
    Still they lost 5 times as many men and material in this battle (which they did win but that's not my point), if we are not comparing the ragtag bands of young boys and old men in the volksturm during the last months of the war, german soldiers (and others like americans and brits) were generally better at "soldiering" than russian soldiers.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)19:23 No.14386637
    Wasn't this supposed to be an Eva thread? Put your pants back on and contribute already.
    As far as I'm concerned the facts are much less important than the fun, and since we are working with fiction, facts are coincidentally completely irrelevant.

    Now someone needs to figure out rules for an Ubersaurus Rex.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)19:25 No.14386653
    They spill from their mother's womb, birthing on the concrete floor, heaving and retching, thrashing about and screeching in pain. They are chained, dragged away by the hundreds, spit from God's court like the bastard sons they are. With steel clamped around their bones, cables cutting through their organs, minds hobbled and crushed by noise, we bind them. Servants. Slaves. The manifested will of the people. We drive them out, and give them purpose.

    The pilots are nothing. Convicts. Children. Prisoners of war. There are no plugs. We press them to the ground, let the beasts get their sent. They are taken. Screaming, bleeding, they are hoisted from the dirt, writhing in terror. Eaten, absorbed, made one flesh with the monster. Their faces sink beneath mottled skin, frozen with open mouths. A triumphant wail fills the night. They are released.

    A blackened wave, to turn the tide of war. They know no fear. Gunfire and smoke do not faze them. Armor and infantry alike turn before them. Claws and fangs, bright orange sparks in the forest. This is our army, a great machine of abominations, loosed upon those that would do us harm. We must push them back. Faster and faster they leak from the Moon, faster and faster they are put down.

    We are undone.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)19:26 No.14386670
    >He still believes the Eastern Front could've gone differently!
    It couldn't, because of the capacity of railroads going into the USSR. Doesn't matter if there's no African or Western front, the Germany still can't put any more troops on the Eastern front at any given time. They might last longer, but it they still can't push far enough to make a difference.

    So basically every war ever fought where one side had a significant numerical advantage involved "human wave tactics" LOL
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)19:29 No.14386690


    Don't troll the glorious nazi-mules! They care tiger tanks to war.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)19:32 No.14386716
    >So basically every war ever fought where one side had a significant numerical advantage involved "human wave tactics" LOL
    Read the actual posts. The importance is not the army size. The importance is the number of men lost.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)19:39 No.14386780
    Not as much the other fronts as the other allies pumping in materials and resources to Russia, and with "gone differently" I mean it might have led to a ceasefire or peacetreaty, not that Germany could have won.

    Not really, Le grande arme outnumbered the russian army, but using scorched earth and the russian terrain and winter the russians managed to dwindle the numbers of the french.
    But in many cases yes the side with the larger forces used human wave tactics because it could afford it, and WW2 russia in particular did this.

    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)20:10 No.14387108
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)20:10 No.14387116
    Just been reading up on this. How easy the afterlife is on you is directly proportional to how much of a dick you were in real life? How delightfully grimdark.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)20:26 No.14387262
    It's only a Western Liberal Democracy who'd actually value it's people enough to care about that. To consider it efficient.

    I don't know know enough about WW2 to actually argue this, but I will say it was likely cheaper to just throw men at the problem, than take a risk and actually train them, which would've taken time and created potential hostiles to the regime.

    And you do sound like a preteen arguing about kill ratios. It's like saying America's victory over Japan doesn't count because you had ten times the industrial capacity and many times again the resource advantage.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)20:32 No.14387333
    Once a gain it's not the fucking point im trying to make, im not saying a victory doesn't count or that something is cheating, im saying that on average the german army had better trained soliders who performed better than the russians and that the Russians did use human wave tactics, so the anon wanting to use soviet cobbled together masses of inferior EVAs against smaller units of elite germans EVAs in his setting is correct.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)20:32 No.14387337
    What is this "victory doesn't count" bullshit? No one's arguing anything about that. The kill ratios are meant to show that the Soviet Union relied more on human wave tactics and may have had tactically deficient forces or forces of a worse quality. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Now hopefully we can lay this matter to rest.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)21:22 No.14387887
    Soviets relied not on a human wave tactics, it was more "Retreat is for pussies" tactics. Officers were not allowed to pull forces back, that's the reason of highly trained troops were so rare in the RA. Because you lose=you die.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)21:27 No.14387954
    And a western liberal democracy has much less to fear from its well trained army of voters that actually wants to defend the government that fairly represents it and values it as something more than a living weapon to be used up and disposed of.

    Also, he doesn't sound to me like a preteen arguing about FPS kill ratios. He sounds like someone making a perfectly valid argument that you're ignoring. You sound like someone who knows that he's wrong and is resorting to ad hominem in a desperate attempt to save face.

    Polite sage to avoid rekindling a shitstorm.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)21:28 No.14387968
    Up until Kursk the Soviets used human wave tactics a fair bit. See the Rzhev Salient and reconnaissance in force:
    >we should send troops in to draw fire to expose enemy positions!

    Too bad either they all died or nobody accurately noted the location of enemy positions every fucking time they did this. By the end of the war they were just doing it to get rid of undesirables.
    >> Anonymous 03/27/11(Sun)23:44 No.14389368
    historical bump
    >> Anonymous 03/28/11(Mon)01:33 No.14390179
    and another
    >> Libyan Mechwarrior 03/28/11(Mon)06:35 No.14392441
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    Libyan bump.


    Well, Russia is not a western liberal democracy. It never was.

    Stalinist USSR was a brutal dictatorship, that's true, but it was a dictatorship that focused on GETTING SHIT DONE. This often resulted in getting stupid shit done, of course. You could say they were a bit overenthusiastic with all the purging which did bite Stalin in the ass in 1941, but what could they do then?

    It wasn't until Stalin's death that USSR turned into an elitist dictatorship that was unable to stop the GETTING SHIT DONE tendencies and in the end decided not to care. Ultimately this proved to be USSR's undoing.

    And well, there wasn't a vote. Never was. You could pretty much ignore the 'elections', since it's not like your vote mattered - it still is this way, only back in USSR people went to vote if only for delicious snacks they served to voters.
    >> Anonymous 03/28/11(Mon)12:54 No.14394777
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    >> Anonymous 03/28/11(Mon)13:40 No.14395135
    >/tg/ - We'll argue about anything.
    >> Anonymous 03/28/11(Mon)13:49 No.14395192

    >human wave tactics



    Polite sage.

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