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  • File : 1299087095.jpg-(436 KB, 900x900, 1292274627292.jpg)
    436 KB verb 03/02/11(Wed)12:31 No.14100433  
    Hey gang, let's have a riddle thread.

    Share memorable puzzles, twisted brain teasers, and riddles that drove your party crazy. And provide solutions so that the less-brilliant among us (OP) don't waste the whole day trying to figure it out.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:33 No.14100441
    Teleport labyrinth!
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:35 No.14100446
    Slider puzzles. They work anywhere and anytime.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:35 No.14100449
    what do I have in my pocket?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:36 No.14100455
    If a card costs a dollar plus half its price. How much does it cost?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:38 No.14100459
    >> verb 03/02/11(Wed)12:38 No.14100460
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    I'll be happy to start us off with a couple.

    The Ring Room
    Listeners at the door of this room will hear strange, ethereal singing. Players open the door onto this room to see a concentric design of circles on the floor, and a magical ring floating in midair in the center of the room. A haunting, disembodied voice sings "Not a sound, perhaps just one" in staccato notes. As players step into the room, a glowing circle 5ft wide lights up around them, and they hear wonderful music telepathically as long as they remain in the circle. This circle is immobile; if players step outside, they hear an awful cacophonous sound, also telepathically which is so awful they cannot endure it. The only way to move across the floor and collect the ring is to move silently (creating not a sound) to collect the ring (perhaps just one). Have players make stealth checks; set the DC at whatever seems appropriate.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:39 No.14100466
    Two dollars. Geez.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:39 No.14100467

    Don't be an asshole. Take 2 dollars.
    >> verb 03/02/11(Wed)12:41 No.14100471
    I love these. Especially four-sided rooms where each door ports players elsewhere.

    Yeah, I have been planning on using these. Do you use the ones with numbers on? Is the puzzle set into a lock and you have to solve it to open a door? Or do you have players find the puzzle elsewhere and wait for them to put the solved puzzle into a lock as a sort of key?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:41 No.14100472
    Great idea to use in a dungeon. "Your party approaches the entrance to the mausoleum; embedded in the wall is what appears to be a puzzle of some kind." Hand them a puzzle (they're about $10 at most from most game and toy shops) and let them figure it out. Much more interesting than "Roll your Thievery/Disable Device/etc."

    Here are some riddles, though I haven't used them in a game yet:
    - What has rivers where no fish swim, has many towns but never an inn? (A map.)
    - Give me food and I live, give me water and I die. (Fire.)
    - I was but I am not and never shall be again. (Waiting.)
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:46 No.14100499
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    Fuck yeah!
    My players are always asking when the next one of them is coming up!
    I have like... 3-4 ratio of them per dungeon.
    >> verb 03/02/11(Wed)12:47 No.14100510
    Another favorite of mine:
    To Him Ungrounded
    Stick a metal weapon into a stone, very much borrowing from the Sword in the Stone legend. Players get zapped when they touch the weapon; they don't take damage, but their muscles are locked on and they are unable to move. They can make a single reflex save at a high DC to avoid being stuck on. Characters must make a concentration DC to cast spells, speak, etc. but are unable to move their bodies. If a second player attempts to dislodge a stuck player, they too are stuck on. The solution to saving themselves and freeing the weapon is to become ungrounded - characters may fly, levitate, or use an nonconducting method of removal to free their friends, and eventually the weapon.

    Clearly depending on your party, you'll have to add additional rules: my sorcerer likes to Shocking Grasp everything all the time, so I planned that if he did so, he and everyone else attached would be thrown off, take scorch damage, and take damage from falling. I also said that the weapon had to be pulled out by a sentient humanoid being - not a construct or companion.

    I think it's really fun to apply real-world rules and ideas to fantasy games. It lets people's real world knowledge get applied, and teaches people who were previously unaware of a real concept about it a bit.
    >> verb 03/02/11(Wed)12:54 No.14100550
    Okay, I'm sold, I'll go pick one of these up, heh.

    The Egg Drop Door
    This door is inscribed with a riddle:
    Marble walls as white as milk,
    lined with skin as soft as silk,
    in a fountain crystal clear,
    a golden apple will appear,
    there is no key to this stronghold,
    yet theives break in and steal the gold.

    The door has an odd opening that appears to be a chute; it is made of stone, so players can't see where it ends, but the opening is a couple inches across and curious PCs can stick their hands in to find nothing (if they get stuck, they could find some bits of eggshell or something to help them along).

    The answer to the riddle is Egg, and the players must go locate an egg and drop it into the tube, where it breaks, egg runs down the center of the door, and the door unlocks. It's very fun to put this in a dungeon where there is a magical tree growing golden apples, and a fountain. PCs will waste lots of times with shenanigans before figuring out that they need to go back to the second room and wait for that chicken to lay an egg.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:54 No.14100553
    >Slider puzzles
    I have punched 2 DMs in the face for adding that bullshit in their games.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)12:59 No.14100581
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:02 No.14100599
    >that chicken

    ...what chicken? You never mentioned a chicken before.

    Oh, wait, is this one of those things that people use purely to confuse others so that they can feel intelligent and superior? Because if so, it's 100% on topic.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:05 No.14100615
    Okay, shit riddle, I thought it was really common but my players had absolutely no clue until I told them. Anything like this every happen to you guys?
    Anyway, here it is.
    >It is more powerful than God.
    >It is more evil than Satan.
    >The richest man in the world wants it.
    >The poorest man in the world has it.
    >If you were to eat it, you would die.
    >What is it?
    >> verb 03/02/11(Wed)13:05 No.14100616
    How would you feel about being asked to play a card game as part of an encounter?

    I ask because I've been wanting to involve card somehow in a current campaign - one of my players is a powergamer that's big on combat, but I know he plays poker religiously, and I thought cards might interest him.

    I'd thought maybe to have the PCs find four Knights that would each represent a suit, and that they'd have to have a card game - depending on the outcome, the PCs could win money, cash, or be attacked I guess, and they could make bets during play. I was thinking especially of using spanish cards which have different suits than hearts, clubs, spades, diamonds they we are so used to, and there are some fun, quick (30 min) games to play with them.

    So what do you think /tg/? Would you hate this? Would you be excited?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:06 No.14100627
    >> verb 03/02/11(Wed)13:07 No.14100637
    Eh, I was referring to a chicken I didn't mention, but assuming if you were going to use this door, you'd be kind to your PCs and put some chickens running around the dungeon so they don't have to go back to town. In the dungeon I used this in, there's a kitchen with an active NPC cook who has chickens PCs can take eggs from. Of course, when they are in the kitchen, the chickens are just a side note - making players remember and use their surroundings is a good deal, I think.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:09 No.14100647
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:23 No.14100753
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    What comes next and why?

    I made this a bit hastily, sorry.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:28 No.14100775
    So, if railroading is bad then why are dungeons ok? Arent they like the ultimate railroad ever? The invisible walls have turned into solid stone/wood/poo/whateveryourdungeonismadeof and there is a very limited number of ways to take, if even more than 1.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:34 No.14100812
    There is also the classical hairy potter mirror puzzle:

    You are in a room with only 1 door leading on and it cant be picked, yet it has a keyhole.
    In the room is also a great mirror.
    In the mirror you see a key in the lock of the door but if you look directly, there is no key.
    Solution is to look in the mirror and have your reflection do the turning of the key to open the door.

    Alternatives to key in lock is key located somewhere in the room or in the hand of players.

    If players get stuck, weak monsters may appear and attack their reflections, dealing damage to the characters.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:35 No.14100818
    make them look for a object that instead is a person, kinda like the Da Vinci code or the 5th Element
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:39 No.14100849
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    bumping because im genuinly interested in the answer.

    Also, POWER DICE!
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:39 No.14100853
    The older I am, the shorter I get,
    I die when I reach the floor.
    Can fit in a stand, sometimes in the hand,
    When gone, your vision's no more.

    It's a candle. Use it when a candlestick is a lever or something like that.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:41 No.14100871
    "I can break no bones but I can break hearts. I can defeat no soldiers but I can end wars. I live only as long as a breath and go on to be immortal. What am I?"
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:42 No.14100878
    If there is a dragon born in the party or a lizard man make the fountain a fountain of girl. Lulz ensue
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:44 No.14100902
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    The spoken word?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:45 No.14100909

    >a fountain of girl

    You've got my attention.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:45 No.14100910
    Get the man a prize.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:47 No.14100925
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    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:52 No.14100960
    i guffaw'd
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:53 No.14100968
    Ooh and have it filled with dancing women who invent you to join them in the fountain and to drink it's "Revitalising waters" When really you just turn into a hot girl and have mind rape cast on you (To make you believe you were always a girl and that the water is wonderful) Include hints around that these people were previousa dventurers that went through. Maybe one is a succubus or something in human form who made the fountain and you have to kill her but not the others. Just an idea
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:54 No.14100970
    >When is a raven like a writing desk?

    Actually had this show up in a Lovecraftian horror game. Once you had read the question you were pursued endlessly by unseen horrors that may or may not have been real until you could provide the true answer. You would hear it whispered endlessly and sometimes when you spoke without realizing you would just ask the question over and over. Kind of a memetic virus type thing.

    So /tg/, do YOU know the answer?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:55 No.14100986
    there is no true answer, it's a nonsense riddle

    although my favorite proposed answer is "Because they both begin with the letter 'e'"
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)13:59 No.14101018
    I once designed a room with an Iron Golem guarding a forge. There was a note next to it that had this riddle written on it.

    "A lonely wanderer, wounded with iron, I am smitten with war-blades, sated with strife,
    Worn with the sword-edge; I have seen many battles, Much hazardous fighting, oft without hope
    Of comforts or help in the carnage of war. 'Ere I perish and fall in the fighting of men.
    The leavings of hammers, the handiwork of smiths, batter and bite me, hard-edged and sharp;
    The brunt of the battle I am doomed to endure. In all the folk-stead no liege could I find
    With wort or salve to heal my wounds; But day and night with deadly blows
    The marks of the war-blades double and deepen.

    Speak your answer"

    If the players answered correctly, the golem would craft a single, random magical item. If they answered incorrectly, the golem would use its breath weapon against them. In both cases, the golem would become inert.

    The answer is Shield, btw.
    >> verb 03/02/11(Wed)14:07 No.14101074
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    This is a riddle, huh. I see what you did there.

    Awesome idea. Love the idea of them looking for something and finding someone, especially if that someone is oblivious or perhaps hostile.

    There was a /tg/ thread a month or two back where you had a door with an impression of a small humanoid (a goblin, a gnome, whatever), and where players had to convince said humanoid to get into the lock to open the door. The humanoid doesn't want to go in. Shenanigans and a good role-play opportunity arise.

    Always fun to have magical girls playing in otherwise poisonous bodies of water. Acid water, boiling - whatever. Then again, I sort of enjoy dinging my male players for thinking with their downstairs brain.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:08 No.14101080
    They both produce notes which are flat.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:08 No.14101086
    Here's one I love to do, straight from an anime.

    The players are about to be crushed by a ceiling trap that adjusts to their strength level to slowly crush them. There's just enough space for one of them to escape, if they act quickly, but they must decide which one of them will escape through the sacrifice of the other party members.

    The only solution -- outside of the obvious -- is to reach a lever in front of the trap and quickly pull it before the other PCs are crushed to death; and even then, the level is usually booby trapped.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:10 No.14101094
    Good work.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:11 No.14101111

    Because it can produce a few notes, tho they are very flat; and it is never put with the wrong end in front!
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:12 No.14101119
    And another!

    * You are trapped in a perfect cube of a room.

    * Its size is twelve by twelve by twelve and the walls are as just as thick.

    * The room cannot be broken out of by physical, metaphysical, or magical means.

    * The only thing beside yourself inside of the room is a single toothpick.

    * There are no doors, windows, or people.

    How do you get out?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:14 No.14101145
    Exponential equation detected.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:15 No.14101151
    Same way you got in.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:16 No.14101162
    Bzzt, wrong.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:20 No.14101182

    Break the toothpick in half
    Put the two halves together to make a whole/hole
    go through the hole
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:20 No.14101183
    kill youself
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:22 No.14101204
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    I really want to say $1.50, but I'm pretty sure there's something I'm missing...
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:24 No.14101216
    Just give the answer.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:26 No.14101231
    Well, you can just test it.
    1$+(1.50/2)=1.75$ != 1.50$
    So you ARE missing something
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:26 No.14101237


    Price is two dollary doos.

    Updating index? What is this?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:28 No.14101254

    Would that anime happen to be Yu Yu Hakusho?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:28 No.14101261
    What's green, hangs on a wall, and whistles?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:29 No.14101262
    Writing desk is an anagram for dirt skewing. Skewing is a laymans term for a skew flip turnover, which is a maneuver in which an airborne craft/creature accelerates to a certain point, flips over (skew flip) and begins to accelerate in the opposite direction.

    This happens, for example, when a scavenger like the common raven spots something interesting and swoops in to grab it. The dirt part obviously refers to ground.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:31 No.14101278
    Billy Bob Bass
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:31 No.14101279
    The answer is actually incalculable, since cost=/=price.

    And even if we took the statement as p=3p/2, it's incalculable for all but 0 because 1=/=1.5

    Just so you know.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:31 No.14101282
    Stab yourself in the neck. Death is the sweetest release.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:31 No.14101283

    Honestly, most cries of railroading come from situations where it looks like you can go anywhere, but you can't. The fact that the players are aware of the confines, and the confines make sense in the world instead of being invisible walls, means they are more likely to accept it.

    If I ask to borrow your car and you agree to it, it's not a crime, but if I take it without you knowing, it's stealing. Same sort of thing.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:32 No.14101289

    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:33 No.14101299
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    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:33 No.14101301
    lol where did you learn maths?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:34 No.14101312
    Mine is easy.

    Players are locked in a room. There is a pedestal in the middle of the room with a box that has two buttons on it.

    One button says OPEN DOOR, and the other button says ELECTRIC SHOCK.

    If they press the button that says OPEN DOOR, they receive an electric shock. It's not fatal, but it does a bit of damage. Obviously, the ELECTRIC SHOCK button opens the door.

    The next room has the same thing, but the box now says OPEN DOOR and DEATH RAY.

    If they press DEATH RAY, they are shot with a death ray and killed.

    People will spend hours trying to avoid pressing the buttons because they know they can't trust you.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:36 No.14101325
    That riddle was not written with an answer in mind, so there isn't a "true" solution. One I like is, "Poe wrote on both."
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:38 No.14101333
    You should really freshen up your middle school algebra skills. Also read the definitions of cost and price again.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:41 No.14101337
    From a good teacher, apparently.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:41 No.14101338
    Ravens can produce more than one sound though.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:44 No.14101353
    Augury is a 2nd level spell.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:50 No.14101369
    They never said that raven ONLY produced flat notes, silly.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:51 No.14101372
    That was from a comic, buddy.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:52 No.14101375
    in regards to >>14101119

    This anon >>14101182 got it right.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:52 No.14101377
    that's right, they can learn one language of the caster's choosing
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:52 No.14101379
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    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:53 No.14101382
    Answer please
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)14:55 No.14101384

    And nets you the answer of "weal and woe". THAT SURE HELPED. It doesn't say THIS BUTTON IS RIGHT.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)15:01 No.14101410
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)15:02 No.14101418
    How is there any Weal involved in getting death rayed?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)15:04 No.14101429

    not that poster, but I'm pretty sure the death ray would be the "woe" aspect in that.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)15:07 No.14101443
    >An augury can tell you whether a particular action will bring good or bad results for you in the immediate future.

    seriously? you think the question would be "what happens if I push A button?" instead of the incredible obviously "what happens if I push this specific button?"

    I'm sorry that magic ruins most puzzles. at least, D&D magic, no system was technically specified in the puzzle granted.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)15:07 No.14101446
    break the toothpick in half, put the two pieces together to make a hole and go threw it.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)15:16 No.14101468
    Climb over the walls.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)15:37 No.14101534
    I am the beginning of the end, and the end of time and space. I am essential to creation, and I surround every place. What am I?
    give them a limited amount of letters, if they push the wrong ones a random trap is sprung...
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)15:48 No.14101573
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:02 No.14101606
    they can solve the riddle with one button :P
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:06 No.14101619
    Letter E
    That last line made it way too easy.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:08 No.14101631
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:09 No.14101635
    curse your oily hide. I solved the damn thing half an hour ago, but chrome is having a retard fit and the reply still hasn't gone through.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:09 No.14101638
    A Man sat on the border. a heart on each side.
    One in hand one in body. Now the law of the lands says that his heart side must be in the country to be arrested. His left side has his heart in body. His right has it in hand.

    Now which country can arrest him and why?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:09 No.14101651
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:11 No.14101663

    Holy shit, my post decided to arrive. Thanks chrome for being aids infested (doing these replies on firefox)
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:13 No.14101677
    something lame like the hand side because he had a heart transplant and the one in his hand is his "real" heart.
    >> German Superhero !SY9mSKAEQM 03/02/11(Wed)16:15 No.14101696

    soviet russia, for he is not sharing life-sustaining organs with other gulag prisoners
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:17 No.14101720

    >If a card costs a dollar plus half its price. How much does it cost?

    I'm not really certain how you're getting two dollars.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:18 No.14101722

    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:18 No.14101725

    The body side would be able to arrest him. Since One would assume if one has a heart in hand.... it is not there naturally.
    He is a murderer trying to use the words of the law to his advantage....

    And I had it work once....
    With a golem's heart tied into a Warforged's arm....
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:18 No.14101729
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    The right? I think they need that hand so that they could 'cuff him.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:20 No.14101742
    Weightless it sinks and thirstless it drinks;
    giving life to the living with death on its brinks.

    The answer is "ocean" or "any large body of water". I used it in a campaign where all sorts of crazy things were washing up dead on shore, so that last line is a bit setting-specific but eh.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:20 No.14101743

    "E" can't be correct in technicality, since you said "the end," implying there is a singular unique end.
    You also need some quotes in there, or it isn't grammatically correct.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:22 No.14101757
    >half its price

    How about reading what you wrote. Also: are you from the US?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:23 No.14101772

    Well, this is another riddle that depends on the definition of words.

    If 'heart' in the law is defined as biological heart.
    And it states that it must be 'his,' part of his biology...
    Then the left side obviously has it.

    If the lawmakers were idiots and included heart symbols, and merely specified possession, then it can be any amount of clusterfuck.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:25 No.14101781

    >I am the beginning of the end
    >and the end of time and space
    >timE / spacE
    E and E, respectively.
    >I am essential to creation
    E, creation without the E is cration.
    >and I surround every place.
    >Every placE

    Screw precise semantics, if you give this one verbally E is still the answer.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:25 No.14101787
    hahaha, the rules layer in me was whispering that in my ear as well, but I decided to just give the answer that was desired. A certain amount of misdirection and general wrongness is often expected in riddles.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:36 No.14101863

    Given the definition of the words, cost=price.
    You are asked to find what the card costs.
    You are told that the card costs one dollar plus half its price.

    Thus, 1+.5*price=price.
    It's assumed there is one currency involved, and this is 'dollars', of any country.
    It could be a sand dollar, and the price could be in Euros. That isn't specified.

    >Find C.
    >If C=P, and D=1, it is not solvable.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:37 No.14101871
    >> 14101743

    The way I always heard the riddle was "I am at the beginning of everything and at the end of time and space. I'm the beginning of every end and the end of every place. What am I?"
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:38 No.14101881

    Humorously, it still needs quotes to be grammatically correct.
    Counter-troll your GM's riddles with LOGIC.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:43 No.14101929
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    It doesn't really have a definite answer, does it?
    also, the Heart in the right hand doesn't happen to be the mans loved one? A child, lover or other significant other?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:47 No.14101961


    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:52 No.14102007
    >Given the definition of the words, cost=price.
    >You are asked to find what the card costs.
    >You are told that the card costs one dollar plus half its price.
    >Thus, 1+.5*price=price.
    >It's assumed there is one currency involved, and this is >'dollars', of any country.
    >It could be a sand dollar, and the price could be in Euros. >That isn't specified.

    >Find C.
    >If C=P, and D=1, it is not solvable.
    Not true.
    P=1+.5*P |-.5*P
    .5P = 1 |*2
    P = 2

    Also, the proof:
    A half of $2 is $1. The card (or whatever it was) costs $1 + $1, so a dollar and a half of its price. Thus, the given solution is true.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:53 No.14102012
    This is quite correct; something that costs 2 dollars does cost 1 dollar plus half its price.

    But that does not automatically mean that is the solution to his question; it would depend on the meaning of the words, and whether the shopkeep has a fetish for sand dollars.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)16:57 No.14102038
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    It wouldn't really be a question about it then right?

    also, here's a fewI used a long time ago. Made a dungeon all about this stuff once.

    "I'm so fragile, saying my name breaks me."

    "I'm vast enough to cover half the world, yet small enough to creep into a clenched fist."

    They might not make sense, english is my second language and I GMed that old adventure in swedish. Also I can't fins my notes so I'm scrabbling them down as I recall them.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:00 No.14102063
    >"I'm so fragile, saying my name breaks me."
    >"I'm vast enough to cover half the world, yet small enough to creep into a clenched fist."
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:02 No.14102073

    This assumes facts not in evidence.
    In order for the riddle to be correct, the price must already be two dollars.

    Otherwise, "the card's price is one dollar, plus half its price. Thus 1.5 dollars." (Referring to current price, or the application of tax.)
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:04 No.14102091
    first is correct. second works, but I had Darkness in mind
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:06 No.14102103
    a) Occam's razor. Use it, bitch.
    b) I already delivered the proof for the solution being the(/a) right one.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:06 No.14102107
    >This assumes facts not in evidence.
    >In order for the riddle to be correct, the price must already be two dollars.
    You are either very stupid, or a troll, or ESL, or some combination of the three.

    When the riddle says "cost", the meaning is "cost to you, the consumer", which is the price. Blathering idiot.

    >Otherwise, "the card's price is one dollar, plus half its price. Thus 1.5 dollars." (Referring to current price, or the application of tax.)
    So the other person is assuming facts not in evidence, but you use a hypothetical tax of 25% and the change in price over time?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:08 No.14102118
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    This thread is great.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:10 No.14102126
    How far can you walk into a forest?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:10 No.14102129
    Maybe I'll elaborate a little.
    >In order for the riddle to be correct, the price must already be two dollars.
    Like yeah. It is in the nature of riddles to have a true pre-existing solution.

    >This assumes facts not in evidence.
    Your variant assumes more of them:

    >(Referring to current price, or the application of tax.)
    Where the fuck does the tax come from?
    And you are not a cheap calculator to assume the last given value as the current value of a variable (I refer to $1 being suddenly the momentarily price of the card in your version)
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:12 No.14102139

    Why no, it simply references the mutability of the words, and how they can be subjected to different interpretation.
    In that example, the shopkeep could be telling you that the tax is 50%.

    In another example the current "cost" could be 1 dollar plus half the list "price."
    Thus indicating a price raise of 1 dollar.
    >> The Riddle That Will Haunt You 03/02/11(Wed)17:12 No.14102145
    Normally I'm not an obstacle if you walk through me.

    But I can cause shame, injury and even death, if you're not careful.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:13 No.14102153
    He's a troll or a first grader if he think that he can argue against the fact that if (x = x/2 + 1) then (x = 2).
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:13 No.14102159

    (Or quite a few other things, for that matter.)
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:15 No.14102172
    You all need to learn a bit about semantics and parsing.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:15 No.14102174
    Occam's razor. Heard of it?

    A gaze?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:17 No.14102185
    I've got a better one! This riddle is wrong since the solution of 2 implied using the decimal system (or some others). What if it is made upon the binary system? In this case the solution is $10!
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:18 No.14102198
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:19 No.14102200

    Occam's razor does not apply to non-concrete semantic problems in a context vacuum.
    There is no real 'easiest' solution, because the solution depends on context that is not given.

    It is not a real situation where energy efficiency is apparent, thus the solution has many equally viable paths.
    Why do you think contracts and legislation need to be so PRECISE?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:20 No.14102206
    You are conflating many different concepts in your post.

    If you want to argue the utmost technical possibility, when the problem says "cost" it could mean "height" and when it says "price" it could mean "stew". But by that stupid argument that a formally posed problem could withhold vital information and/or lie to you directly, you are saying that NO problem has a logical solution (which it technically didn't anyway since it was only a hypothetical problem to begin with).

    Ultimately true, ultimately useless.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:20 No.14102209

    That is not better-- binary is not mentioned.
    The definition of cost vs price can easily be looked up, however.
    Spoilers: they are not exactly the same.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:22 No.14102225
    Binary '10' just means decimal '2'. It wouldn't really work if he tried it.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:22 No.14102230
    He's not conflating anything, and this is not a practicality vs philosophy problem. He's simply stating different interpretations of the words in which $2 is not the answer.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:24 No.14102248
    I met an old man with three hands but only two arms. Nothing was odd about him as he sat and passed the time in solitaire.
    How did he exist with three hands.

    A Farmer had three kids, two female and one male. He sold the male to the butcher And the first female he used to pay dowery for marriage of the second.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:24 No.14102251
    Basically, this.

    Just as planned.jpg It already causes butthurt. Also, tax is also mentioned nowhere.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:25 No.14102256
    Same or not, there are strong indications that they are used interchangeably in this context, and any other interpretation leaves gaps in the chain of logic required to arrive at an answer. If you CHOOSE an interpretation that doesn't go anywhere, you can never get any answer.

    That's the fundamental truth about human pattern recognition and formal logic.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:26 No.14102259

    In order for the 'riddle' to be solvable, it would have to ask that you "find a price in dollars."
    Otherwise it requires you to assume facts not in evidence.

    This has been a problem in translating tests into different languages-- the culturally-based assumptions are neglected.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:26 No.14102261
    hand of cards.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:27 No.14102272
    You need to make assumptions to arrive at that solution.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:27 No.14102280
    Yes. You would be surprised how many don't get it.
    the second?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:28 No.14102284
    and for the second one. a play on words with "kid" I assume meaning young goats?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:28 No.14102287
    Two of them were goats.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:28 No.14102289
    Now that's not only stupid fucking with obvious presumptions, that's plainly stupid.
    The length of a stick is a metre and a half of its length. How long is the stick?
    You can say it's two metres, but you also can say it's 6.56167979 feet.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:31 No.14102308
    >You need to make assumptions to arrive at that solution.
    You need assumptions to arrive at anything, your 'hard line' position is untenable.

    >In order for the 'riddle' to be solvable, it would have to ask that you "find a price in dollars."
    Not really. The riddle itself gives dollars as a currency, and by definition all currencies are interchangeable.

    Sure, translation is a problem, but that doesn't mean that some problems require assumption and some don't - all do, you are just blind to the ones in your home language. If you weren't you would be able to accept the assumptions in other languages.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:31 No.14102310
    Goats is right....
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:32 No.14102314

    There is no mention that they are used interchangeably at all.
    In fact, the fact that they are different words used in a single sentences *suggests* that there was a reason for that.

    It's not about choosing a logic path that leads to "nowhere"--
    It's about determining the correct logic path to arrive at the correct answer.
    If there are multiple logic paths, then there are multiple correct answers.

    Thus, in order for that answer to be true, the price must ALREADY be $2.
    And in order for you to know that, it must be stated.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:34 No.14102330
    Oh wow... this must be how the media gets people to believe things without evidence.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:35 No.14102337
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    can this riddle die yet?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:36 No.14102347
    >There is no mention that they are used interchangeably at all.
    You were the one who suggested looking stuff up? How about you look up currencies? For a given moment of time (if we forget relativity-bound phenomena) all currencies can be translated in each other. See the example in >>14102289.

    >Thus, in order for that answer to be true, the price must ALREADY be $2.
    >And in order for you to know that, it must be stated.
    You seem to misunderstand the conception of "riddles" somehow.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:38 No.14102363

    All problems do not require assumption.
    Some problems make use of assumption as a heuristic-- they increase the speed of processing.
    (Largely by exploiting the commonalities between problems of a type, in this case on a cultural scale.)

    It also gives dollars as a currency factor in determining cost.
    It in no way implies that the price is in dollars.
    And by virtue of the exchange rates between currencies, that would change the answer.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:38 No.14102368
    >There is no mention that they are used interchangeably at all.
    No, it is simply a characteristic of currency; that is why it is called 'currency'. We know this the same way we know what the words in his problem mean despite the fact that they are not defined therein.

    >In fact, the fact that they are different words used in a single sentences *suggests* that there was a reason for that.
    No, using different words in a single sentence is how sentences are formed.

    >multiple answers
    Sure, there are multiple correct answers. "Two dollars" is one of them, and the most strongly indicated considering the wording and linguo-cultural context of the problem.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:39 No.14102371
    Either side. He's got a heart in each, so therefore both can arrest. Clearly the answer here is "flee to Canada," which of course isn't an answer. Trick question!
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:41 No.14102387

    You're missing my point completely.
    There's no suggestion that the words "price" and "cost" are used interchangeably.
    The fact that those two different words are used in the same sentence indicates that there was a reason for doing so.
    (A reason for using different words.)
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:42 No.14102394
    >How is a raven like a writing desk

    Both have quills, you numbskulls. Christ.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:42 No.14102399
    Three times round three times wide.
    The Boulder rolled Down the hill into the camp.
    Once it stopped it could not moved since it was so huge.

    You have a piece of magic chalk to write something on it. Must be a number or a value. If you write the correct thing on it it will move it or something will happen.

    What do you write and do?.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:44 No.14102412

    Is it?
    Is it "strongly" indicated?
    What does that mean?

    TO YOU, that is the solution.
    To someone in marketing, perhaps he hears "price" as "list price."
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:45 No.14102427
    The Internet
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:46 No.14102436
    Late to the thread it seems, but I always enjoyed this puzzle I gave my players during my brief stint as a DM.

    The PCs are in a wizards tower going through "The Thieves Test" (A set of puzzles/traps/mazes/monsters designed to kill anyone who entered). The PCs were making good time this session but quickly got stuck in this room.

    The room was 8 squares by 8 squares and 3 squares high if it ever came up. The PCs came in through a one way portal on the floor to find two smaller (also one way) portals to either side of the one they just came though, and an inactive portal (leading out) across the room. In the center of the room was a small pedestal, upon which sat several tiles with varying letters on them. Below the tiles were an equal number of holes for the tiles to fit into. As soon as you begin to place the tiles in the slots goblins spawn from the two smaller portals in the room and attacked the PCs.

    The tiles had the following letters on them:
    N, O, F, T, E, S, T, F, S, T

    How would you go about solving this /tg/?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:47 No.14102439
    Here's one I heard about.

    You're in a room with no visible exits.
    -OK, I look around the room.
    You saw a table
    Solution: I saw the table in half, I put two halves together to make a whole. I climb out the hole.

    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:48 No.14102448
    The usage of 'price' and 'cost' interchangeably is the only somewhat weak point of this riddle. But do not forget that it cost is used as a verb and price as a noun. I don't know any verb that directly corresponds to 'price', but then, English isn't my mother tongue.
    Also the older definitions of price and cost only applied to quantities of more than one of an article.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:49 No.14102459
    I got one.

    You can't eat me but I can feed you.
    I am not a bed but I can help you sleep
    I am not a weapon but i can kill for you.

    What am I?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:49 No.14102461
    >All problems do not require assumption.
    I'll repeat. All problems require assumption, because logic requires assumption, ie "if x then y". X is the assumption.

    >It in no way implies that the price is in dollars.
    Changing the units does not change price, any more than it changes distance or time.

    >And by virtue of the exchange rates between currencies, that would change the answer.
    Yes, but in any currency, $2 worth of a given currency is worth $2 no matter the exchange rate between the two.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:49 No.14102465
    The definition of "dollar" is another point.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:51 No.14102475
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:51 No.14102476

    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:52 No.14102486
    >TO YOU, that is the solution.
    Like someone said, it depends on language, and english is my primary language. So yes, it is written for me, and my solution is the solution.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:53 No.14102489

    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:53 No.14102493
    Should have stated that the tiles are in random order in my post. I also gave the PCs little squares of paper with the letters written on them so that they had something tangible to work with.

    >difficult tediki
    Alright captcha...what's a tediki?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:54 No.14102498
    Ok so me and my party are in a dungeon and have been for 3 days we find this hallway that has its cieling and floor covered in blood and there are small holes in the walls not daring to enter the hallway we spent hours in real time trying to figure what the fuck to do casting all kinds of spell searching for traps and nothing then finally I said screw it I'm just gonna run through I try to slip in the bloodand. Nothing else happens the party walks through untouched
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:55 No.14102511

    Wrong definition of assumption. In this case it clearly references the "assumption of facts not in evidence," which was clearly stated.

    In addition, it was stated that a different currency for price would change the answer to THE PROBLEM.
    Not the value of the currency.
    If the price is in Euros, the cost would be one dollar plus half of x Euros.
    "Half" is a hard .5, so changing the currency changes the cost.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:56 No.14102518
    Ignoring the other half of his post does not make you correct. It makes you ignorant.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:57 No.14102524
    The answer is money.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)17:59 No.14102533

    No, it isn't.
    You can eat money.

    It may as well be sunlight, referencing the circadian rhythm and a magnifying glass on an ant.
    >> The Riddle That Will Haunt You 03/02/11(Wed)18:01 No.14102548
    Revolving door.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:03 No.14102566

    No. It isn't.
    It may as well be 'wind.'
    Or anything else for that matter.

    If you want to be hilarious, it's the neurochemicals that cause shame to occur.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:04 No.14102570
    That's a fairly poor riddle; edible thing have often been used as currency throughout history
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:04 No.14102573

    Misread it as you CAN eat me.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:05 No.14102579

    This is kind of a shitty riddle. The more answers there are, the easier it is, and thus the crappier it is.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:06 No.14102589
    Most of the "riddles" in this thread are bad. And it looks like Mr. Semantics is raping +/- all of them.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:07 No.14102601
    >If the price is in Euros, the cost would be one dollar plus half of x Euros.
    ">Half" is a hard .5, so changing the currency changes the cost.

    You never studied any physics, did ya? Because price and cost both are values with a measurement units attached. If you were right, we could never solve anything because interchanging pounds with ounces or grams would give us completely other results.

    Would you be so nice to tell us what would the answer be if the solution is in Euros? Let's simplify it and say $1 = 0.75€
    I state that the solution will be 1.50€
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:12 No.14102636
    >"Half" is a hard .5

    That's an assumption! The question could actually be written in a fantasy language whose words look like English ones, but have entirely different meanings.
    >> Vesper !eFPmCmEOnc 03/02/11(Wed)18:13 No.14102637
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    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:13 No.14102638
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    When is a riddle no longer fun?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:14 No.14102643

    You've fallen for MY riddle.
    And are incorrect.
    The cost is $1 + 12€.
    I need the dollar bill to hang on my wall, and you should have read the label.

    It specifically states that it is one dollar plus half of whatever the price is in euros.
    Not one dollar converted to euros plus half the price in euros.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:14 No.14102648
    Actually, the correct definition of assumption. When you say "assumption of facts not in evidence", that is what a logical assumption is.

    Answers of equivalent value are equivalent and correct. >1 + 1 = 2
    >16 oz = 1 lb

    Changing the currency does not change the cost. Your English is good, your math is weak. Whether half the price is in euros or dollars, it is still worth one dollar, as defined in the problem.

    Do you know what is left when you take away half of something? The other half. Which is worth $1.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:16 No.14102668
    OH WOW... HE GOT BOTH OF YOU. Best riddle in the thread.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:17 No.14102672
    You didn't state any riddle. I was referring to the original one.

    You of course DID say that you assume it is the half of the Euro price, but there is no evidence for it in the riddle whatsoever.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:17 No.14102676

    Heh. This is pretty funny. And technically quite correct.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:18 No.14102688
    >The cost is $1 + 12€.

    So a 24€ item costs $1 + 12€? Or did you mean the price in euros was 12, so it would cost $1 + 6€? Now you're the one assuming the seller has a $1 fetish and is willing to give you a 50% discount if you hook him up.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:19 No.14102696
    He's just samefagging very hard, that's all.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:19 No.14102703
    Ciphers are a lot of fun.

    As DM, the way I like to implement them is have the PCs find a ciphered note early in the campaign, preferably right towards the end of a session, so they're liable to forget about it--but have it contain a piece of information critical to the campaign's story: an NPC is actually evil, location of BBEG hideout or somesuch. Then when they actually solve it, it's a major "oh shit!" moment
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:21 No.14102714
    What about $1+0.75€? How is this wrong? And where did the $12 come from?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:24 No.14102742

    I said:
    'Changing the price currency will change the cost.'
    The "hard .5" was a distractor, and clearly does not change the meaning of my words.

    I'm colloquially referring to it as a riddle, because I found it humorous to do so.
    I was, obviously, speaking about the original problem.


    I indicated that a possible meaning of the words is that the "cost" is one dollar plus half the "price."
    Thus, if the price is 24€, the cost is $1 + 12€.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:26 No.14102759
    12€, actually.

    Although using the 'logic' in that post, the price could be $24 and it could cost $1 + $12. Or the answer could be 'yes' because the question was actually a cunning cipher which decodes to 'Am I an enormous faggot?' It's impossible to tell, because we apparently aren't allowed to make reasonable assumptions.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:26 No.14102761
    Hey guys, I'm not the guy trolling you, but I can tell you the guy is gone. The stink of a troll who's cashed out is all over this thread. Forget him and post some better riddles.

    "Before Mount Everest was discovered, what was the highest mountain on Earth?"
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:27 No.14102774

    It's easily wrong.
    If a restaurant asks you for $1, do you think they're going to take .75€?
    Nowhere does it state that an exchange-rate conversion of that one dollar will be permissible.
    And nowhere does it state that the price is *in* dollars.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:27 No.14102775
    Just because it wasn't labeled does not mean it did not exist.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:31 No.14102811
    >Do you know what is left when you take away half of something? The other half. Which is worth $1, according to the original post.
    Wow, how is anyone arguing this? Any non-dollar answer will be worth $1. And everyone knows the presented units of the question are the units being asked for, the units are only specified if multiple units are used and matter to the answer.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:31 No.14102813

    No, you're not allowed to assume facts not in evidence.
    Read: Things not stated in the problem.

    You're doing so because you're used to things being a certain way.
    That is one of the best kinds of riddle-- one that challenges a person's assumptions about reality.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:32 No.14102818
    Actually, at a local McDonalds frequented by the US army they have an exchange course.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:33 No.14102826
    >And everyone knows the presented units of the question are the units being asked for, the units are only specified if multiple units are used and matter to the answer.
    Why are you assuming that? Where was that problem solving rule stated?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:33 No.14102831
    A 'possible meaning' is the entire text of Moby Dick in Klingon.

    Language is meaningless and communication impossible unless we make assumptions about intended meanings. A 'riddle' whose salient solution is wrong because those assumptions are violated is a miscommunication. Especially in this case, where if you allow the possible meanings you're entertaining there are literally an infinite number of solutions, since 'price' no longer refers to any of the information provided.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:34 No.14102837
    Mount Everest. Though it wasn't called that.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:34 No.14102838
    The dickfish ate a halibute. the halibute ate a Marshal. Marshal ate a haddock. The Haddock had a squid.
    How many people died that day?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:35 No.14102844
    You are assuming a riddle is like a restaurant.

    Whether or not they will take one dollar's worth of currency in another currency, it is still worth one dollar, by definition. Currency. Concurrently valid.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:36 No.14102853
    I'd answer you, but I'm not going to assume you posted that with a communicative intent. For all I know, a monkey banged that out accidentally on the keyboard. I have no evidence one way or the other, after all.
    >> Commissar !nqFUKLAWj6 03/02/11(Wed)18:37 No.14102862
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    What's green and red and goes a hundred miles per hour?

    A frog in a blender.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:37 No.14102863
    it costs 1 dollar + it's 1/2 * price.

    Initial cost is 1 dollar, and half of that is 0.5.
    now the cost has increased by 0.5, so to get the price we must add ½ of that extra .5, which is .25. Now the cost has gone up by .25, so we have to add half of that, which is .125. etc.

    in the end, we get the cost to be 2.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:39 No.14102874
    >Why are you assuming that?
    Because it is a convention of the type of problem, and is appropriately applied here. Also, because a solution that is not wrong is more desirable to me and any smart human than the reply that "it could be anything, I don't know".

    >Where was that problem solving rule stated?
    Where was it stated that the problem required the answer in a specific currency?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:39 No.14102878
    It's FIRST green THEN red.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:39 No.14102879
    Well adding half of the last part indefinitely would not get us to 2....
    It would get us near it but not there....
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:40 No.14102884
    Around 154,138, assuming an Earth day that was close to average for 2011.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:40 No.14102886
    Learn to lim.
    For a starters, look upon how much 1 - 0.99999999... is
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:41 No.14102895
    Not what I meant but acceptable.
    Among those named I meant.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:41 No.14102902

    learn to lim->∞
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:42 No.14102907
    You are using a logical fallacy to make the false seem convincing, similar to the one demonstrated in Zeno's paradox of Achilles and the tortoise.

    Frogs don't have red blood.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:43 No.14102915
    I know. But by what he had just said in the post I responded to.... I am correct in a sense.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:44 No.14102924
    Even if 'cost' and 'price' weren't being used interchangeably in the problem, calculating the cost wouldn't change the price.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:45 No.14102928

    So, if they ask you for $1, they'll just automatically accept another currency exactly without commission?


    You're simply choosing the meaning that you like best.
    Without clarifying context, your choice is as good or as bad as any other.
    In real life, there is context, definition, and clarification.
    In this riddle, none is given, therefore there is no one correct solution.
    And in point of fact, as written, there is no actual solution because any solution requires facts not in evidence.


    No, I'm directly stating that the riddle does not indicate that currency conversion is permitted.


    Sure, you could say that.
    But you have evidence that there are words.
    And by definition words are used to communicate.

    You're just frustrated at your own inability to think about the problem in different ways, so you try to distort a quite obvious concept.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:47 No.14102942
    You dumb bitch. I hope you are trollin'

    someone deal with this idiot, I don't wanna waste time.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:49 No.14102954
    Learn to math. We understand you enjoy having read some tertiary literature about philosophy in your freshman year and don't want to spoil your fun, but if you want to discuss math, then RTFM.

    Also frogs DO have red blood. All vertebrates have hemoglobin.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:49 No.14102960
    I'm currently assuming everything is a trick question of the stupidest variety, sorry.

    A Marshal might have died, if that refers to a person who is a marshal.

    Marshal (not to be confused with 'a Marshal') may have died if their food was poisonous or if they choked. The same for 'The dickfish' and 'The Haddock' if those are nicknames for people.

    So between zero and four is my best attempt at a reasonable answer.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:57 No.14103014
    >No, I'm directly stating that the riddle does not indicate that currency conversion is permitted.
    And supported that with a comparison to a restaurant.
    The restaurant in your example? Sure. The shopkeeper in the original problem? No.

    >But you have evidence that there are words.
    No, I know there are words. Word are words whether or not they were intentionally typed.
    >And by definition words are used to communicate.
    You could argue that, but you wouldn't be technically correct; communication isn't part of the essential definition of what a word is. A word that is never heard or seen is still a word.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:58 No.14103020
    Zero and Four.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)18:59 No.14103029
    They both open with a flap.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:00 No.14103041
    >You're simply choosing the meaning that you like best.
    No, he is stating the answer that can be known. Which is the purpose of any problem.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:04 No.14103076

    You're just fruitlessly trolling now.
    The original problem asks for "a dollar," obviously.
    >If a card costs a dollar plus half its price. How much does it cost?
    At: >>14100455

    A word that is never seen or heard is still, by definition, used for communication.
    It's just obviously been used ineffectively.

    As a said. You're frustrated. And thus taking the concept of "assuming without evidence" to conclusions with are non-sequitur.
    And as a side note, since this IS reality, and there IS context, practicality vs philosophy kicks in.
    You can claim that everyone else is just a character in your imagination all you like-- it doesn't make your point any more correct.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:06 No.14103095

    He's stating an answer that is possible if you assume something not stated.
    That is all.
    (And he chooses that answer as the "correct" answer because he likes it the best.)

    "Can be known" means nothing.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:07 No.14103108
    >A word that is never seen or heard is still, by definition, used for communication.
    >It's just obviously been used ineffectively.
    Now you are getting into issues of intent. You are also confusing me with another anon.

    The question specifies one dollar as part of the cost, but never asks for a dollar. There is a difference, natch.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:09 No.14103125
    >A dollar is part of the cost.
    >What is the cost?
    You somehow think that the answer doesn't involve a dollar then. Interesting.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:11 No.14103146
    >He's stating an answer that is possible if you assume something not stated.
    No, the problem as stated works with an answer of $2. Please do not repeat your argument of "only if the cost was ALREADY $2" because it is impossible to arrive at a true answer without that true answer already being true.

    >"Can be known" means nothing.
    Apparently, it means a great deal since your argument hinges on the idea that the answer "cannot be known".
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:12 No.14103158
    Sorry, that is not the case. You can't interpret my meaning after disregarding my point.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:12 No.14103159
    Every communicative act is basically a riddle the goal of which is to find out 'what does this communication mean'?

    If you say that riddle has no solution because any possible solution requires assumption, than any communication is meaningless because any possible meaning requires assumption as well (and no, 'context, definition, and clarification' don't help you in the meaning case because they all require their own assumptions to be meaningful as well).

    And we obviously can say that, in either case, but it's not 'thinking about the problem in a different way', it's being purposefully obstructive and dense. You are no longer a cooperative partner in the conversation.

    The assumptions we make when answering the riddle with '$2' are the same sort of assumption we make in order to communicate at all, is the point here. You are not technically incorrect for rejecting one, but you can't then claim that it's impossible to reject the other.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:16 No.14103185
    Amen, friend. Just thought you'd like to know that you're not alone in here with the troll, there are others of us who didn't buy his line of bull or just look the other way.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:17 No.14103198

    "Word: A unit of language."
    "Language: A systematic means of communicating."

    By definition.

    Further. The question asks for the cost. The cost must include "a dollar".
    I hope you see how that works.


    I'm not talking about "knowing."
    I'm stating that there are multiple solutions for that problem defendant on what EXTERNAL definitions and facts are assumed to be true.
    If you do not assume that any evidence external to the problem is true, then there is no solution. As written.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:19 No.14103221
    I don't like math.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:19 No.14103222
    I'm actually quite enjoying it, though, and honestly if he wasn't playing that part I probably would've instead just to see if I could get a linguistics thread going.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:23 No.14103267

    In communication at all, assumptions you make are beholden to the context and evidence in reality.

    As I stated clearly before, to make the contextual assumptions required to arrive at "$2," you must disregard other equally correct contextual assumptions that arrive at different answers.

    You are literally give the 1940s psychological argument that people of other languages aren't as intelligent because they don't make the same cultural assumptions that English speakers do.
    Look up the history and psychology of IQ testing and semantic processing.

    Without stated definition and context, an in vacuo statement requiring external evidence returns a STOP.
    It's even worse in contract law, where no stop is returned, and instead ALL solutions become equally valued dependent only on the lawyer's ability to find them.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:25 No.14103293

    What? That's not a riddle, it's completely straight forward. The "Not a sound" is blatanly referring to not making noise and "perhaps just one" is crap too, as it's DEFINITELY 'just one' as there's only one fucking ring in the room!
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:27 No.14103318
    When it involves self-refrential price tags.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:28 No.14103327
    The general use of an object isn't necessarily the specific use in a given scenario.

    The problem asks how much it costs, not what the cost is. Verb vs noun. You don't seem to understand the use of the word cost, anyhow.

    >I'm not talking about "knowing."
    Anyone who is talking is talking about knowing.

    >I'm stating that there are multiple solutions for that problem defendant on what EXTERNAL definitions and facts are assumed to be true.
    None of which can be known except for the solution of 'two dollars'. In fact, since no other currency is mentioned in the problem, as written it can only be expressed in dollars.

    >If you do not assume that any evidence external to the problem is true, then there is no solution. As written.
    Agreed. But that is true for ANY problem, and thus useless. Unless you would like to pose a problem that can be solved independent of assumption.

    Basically, if you only go by what's directly expressed in the problem, you're wrong. If you assume outside factors, you're wrong. Your position is indicative of an incomplete understanding, and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:31 No.14103354
    There are no people in the room. Therefore I am not in the room. Done.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:32 No.14103369
    >In communication at all, assumptions you make are beholden to the context and evidence in reality.
    Both of which require assumptions, whose context and evidence require further assumptions... you have created an infinite regression issue, there is always a baseline assumption.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:35 No.14103392
    Too bad he couldn't make his arguments without being rude and abrasive. After all, there are non-outrageous ways to support the position he took, that might actually lead to learning something, rather than beating his head against a wall of superior (and true) logic.
    >> Fireaxe 03/02/11(Wed)19:40 No.14103438
    You all fail, the riddle "why is a raven like a writing desk", the answer is to repeat the question at hand as a question, you dont state it like you're talking to yourself, but to pose it back as a question.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:45 No.14103482

    Many problems can be solved independent of assuming outside facts.
    It simply needs to have clear linguistic definition. Definition.
    Definition is codified assumption, and in communication it is evidence.
    "If all squigs are squalls and all squalls are zigs, are all squigs zigs?"
    Yes. No external unstated context required.

    >"Cost" (verb): to require the payment of (money or something else of value) in an exchange.

    Does not negate the specific request of a dollar.

    Further, "anyone who is talking" is talking about what they are talking about.
    It may or may not have anything to do with the concept of "knowledge."
    The CONCEPT of knowledge. Knowing.
    Not the application of information which obviously must be used to communicate.

    And finally, just because one currency is mentioned, does not mean that all prices and costs are in the currency.
    Hence, the problem must state "What does it cost in dollars."
    (And for humor, "a dollar" does not need to be the currency at all. It could be a small sea urchin.)

    Assuming *Facts. Not. In. Evidence.*
    That is the point. That last part. In asterisks.
    "Assumptions" are fine, when they have a logical basis.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:46 No.14103495
    If the original riddle was 'A card costs a thnad plus half its price. How much does it cost?' the salient answer, totally independent of cultural context, would be two thnads.

    The two ways of reading the text are not equally correct because one of them distinguishes a single solution and the other does not, not because one conveys some special meaning to the word 'dollar'. Here's another example where this shows up in regular old meaningfulness instead of riddle solutions:

    'I picked up an apple and gave the fruit to Bill' has two possible meanings depending on our reading of 'the fruit'. One of them is obvious and the other is completely indeterminable, so we assume the person communicating this fact means the obvious thing.

    And before you claim that technically the sentence actually is meaningless in a vacuum with no context, I remind you that the original sample sentence was provided *in a thread about riddles*, which provides a whole wealth of context all of which supports the question having an actual solution.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:46 No.14103503
    the samefagging is just silly now. stop it.
    >> DieselDictator !UEzOyKRYK. 03/02/11(Wed)19:47 No.14103513
    Alright, I've got one.
    This is great when players need to cross a bridge and OHNOES a troll/giant/wtfever pops out.

    He lays eleven sticks out before you, like so
    I I I I I I I I I I I
    The puzzle is, you must make eleven into nine, without taking two away.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:49 No.14103541

    Quite obviously the cost would be:
    1 thnad + half of the price.

    Nowhere does it say the price and cost are in thnads.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:51 No.14103562
    Normally, I'd answer "arrange the matchsticks to spell the word NINE" but given the precedent set by this thread, I'm gonna say you have to change the context of the word "nine" to indicate one-and-ten.
    >> DieselDictator !UEzOyKRYK. 03/02/11(Wed)19:52 No.14103567
    You got it.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:53 No.14103594

    Cut two sticks in half.
    Then take four away.

    This is a good example of one that does not need external evidence.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:55 No.14103627
    Nowhere does it say the 'it' in 'How much does it cost?' refers to thing which costs a thnad plus half its price either.

    So QUITE OBVIOUSLY the cost is literally anything, including a thnad or not, because we can't determine what we're asking the cost of without assumption.

    Or, you know, we could assume the question was meaningful.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:56 No.14103645

    And even still--
    Subject to definition mincing.
    That is a fun part of riddles, though.
    Multiple answers, but still solvable with the words provided.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)19:57 No.14103648
    Holy shit. This thread is still on about that price riddle?
    Fuck you /tg/... fuck you...
    Sage for not contributing
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:00 No.14103699
    >"If all squigs are squalls and all squalls are zigs, are all squigs zigs?"
    >Yes. No external unstated context required.
    Only if you assume that squigs really are squalls and that all sqalls really are squigs. This is without mentioning that you must assume that the meaning of all those words was the intended meaning, as well as assuming that they are not lying, as well as assuming that inference always yields a true answer, as well as the assumption that the universe is consistent with itself, as well as... the assumptions are endless.

    >"Cost" (verb): to require the payment of (money or something else of value) in an exchange.
    First of all, your overly narrow definition isn't even syntactically correct. What kind of bullshit source, which you failed to cite by the way, are you taking that from? The shopkeep at no time requests a dollar, as written.

    >Further, "anyone who is talking" is talking about what they are talking about.
    You have to know something to try and communicate it, even if you only know that you do not know.

    >The CONCEPT of knowledge. Knowing. Not the application of information which obviously must be used to communicate.
    Are you arguing that information is not included in the definition of knowledge? Because that would be full-on retarded.

    >And finally, just because one currency is mentioned, does not mean that all prices and costs are in the currency.
    It does if you demand that we disregard external information, as you did. The problem states the existence of one and only one currency. Unless you assume external information, dollars are the only unit of currency and thus is the only possible unit which the answer could use.

    >"Assumptions" are fine, when they have a logical basis.
    Yes, but logical basis is not "proof" the way you seem to like to use it. All logic requires further assumptions... if you go far enough back into your reasoning, there is some assumption with no logical reasoning.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:01 No.14103712

    Depending on the other context, this could be the case.
    The shopkeep could be pointing to something when he said "how much does it cost."

    That is the point.
    The question is simply a bad question.
    That is why questions like that are no longer on most standardized psych tests.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:03 No.14103736
    You are the biggest Aspie I have ever seen.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:05 No.14103750
    Deltora Quest, spell out NINE.
    Glad to see another fan.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:06 No.14103762
    There is no shopkeep mentioned in the question, neither does the nonexistent shopkeep ever say anything.

    Everything in existence is connected to and definitively dependent on everything else. You cannot make an apple pie from scratch.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:06 No.14103772

    Anyone, including riddle bearer, that says something along those lines is a fucking idiot for over analyzing it.

    It's a fucking buck fifty.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:07 No.14103776
    IT WAS A RIDDLE ALL ALONG! It really was about the weight of looming death hanging above you, but too late, rocks fell, you died. Roll a new character, start at level 1.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:07 No.14103782
    You have never seen me.

    Also, Aspie doesn't mean 'people who disgust me because of their differing opinions and styles of debate,' no matter how much you wish it did.

    But fair is fair, I think you're an Aspie, after all.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:09 No.14103807

    All your points have been addressed previously.
    For your convenience, the definition is from:
    Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011.

    I will reiterate a point or two, for fun:
    Someone talking is not necessarily talking about the concept of "knowledge."
    Despite that he may be using his own information to speak.

    If you disregard external information, and take the currency definition of 'dollar' as true, then there is only the currency of dollars in the problem.
    This does not indicate that the cost or price are in dollars, or in currency at all.

    Lastly, as stated before, word definitions are not "assumptions of outside information."
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:10 No.14103811
    "people who disgust me because of their differing opinions and styles of debate"

    Oh I am so sorry, it's not like you were assuming everything about that poor asshole back there, right or wrong he may be.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:10 No.14103814
    >3. Do not post the following outside of /b/: Trolls, [etc].
    Do your duty. Report the trolls today.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:12 No.14103844

    Discussing what makes a good riddle, and the correct answers to riddles... is not trolling.
    Riddles are in fact a traditional game.
    AND they have application to GMing.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:15 No.14103870
    >That is why questions like that are no longer on most standardized psych tests.

    Yeah, if I saw this on a multiple choice test and had to decide between '$2' and 'not enough information' I'd be pretty pissed.

    That said, the definition of a riddle is pretty much 'a bad question', otherwise they'd be unambiguous and easy to answer.

    Which is I guess why people like us shouldn't be in riddle threads, or we'll derail them into some sort of weird troll tennis.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:15 No.14103875
    You're late, troll. Half of a buck-fifty is seventy-five cents, which added together with a dollar is a dollar seventy-five, not a buck-fifty.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:17 No.14103893
    The thing is, trolling is more of a matter of good faith than anything. Since everyone is able to use their own judgment as to whether or not to report, if you have failed to convince people of your good faith, they may report you.

    No manner of unconvincing "proof" will enable you to evade this.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:17 No.14103900

    Also, "Poe wrote on both" would work for the proper phrasing.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:23 No.14103980
    Huh, you're right. I think. My head hurts.
    I'm not trying to troll, I just think that guy is an asshole.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:25 No.14103990

    No no!
    There are a lovely amount of riddles that can be challenging when clearly defined.

    See modern IQ tests for pattern matching ones, though perhaps described as more of a 'puzzle.'

    Somewhat similar to the "what am I?" riddles, there are also ones that give you pieces of information and then rules to apply it.
    "Ten people sitting around a table, if tom sat across from tim, and tim sat next to the VP and the VP is Ralph..." etc.

    Somewhat more abstract are the fairy and djinn riddles, which largely rely on alternate definitions of words.
    Those can be somewhat troubling if the player is unaware of the alternate definition, however.
    It is best to play those out as a contractual system-- the player must come up with words concrete enough to bind the fairy/djinn.
    Depending on how successful he is (you, the GM, trying to poke holes in it,) things happen.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:25 No.14104000

    Isn't that from Going Postal? One of the discworld books?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:29 No.14104039

    To clarify, about the table one:
    Usually, one is asked to arrange the people at the table in the correct order.
    *Or* to use the correct order to answer a question.
    "Who is the VP?"

    I believe one version is a business exercise demonstrating team communication.
    (Each player is given one piece of information written on a card. They're not allowed to show anyone else it, but they can verbally tell others.)

    There are also the popular "who is older?!" questions.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:32 No.14104060
    >Ten people sitting around a table, if tom sat across from tim, and tim sat next to the VP and the VP is Ralph...

    That's a riddle in the same way a math problem is a riddle, which is that it isn't.

    I'm sadly unfamiliar with fairy and djinn riddles, and one of the top hits when I tried to google them is this very thread. Can you give an example?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:38 No.14104098

    Oh, it's not like a math problem... per se.
    It doesn't require that the person have any prior knowledge of the rules of operation (math.)
    It's a logic puzzle, and my example was very hasty and obvious.

    And the fairy/djinn ones are like medieval contract law.
    "Be careful what you wish for" sort of thing.
    "I wish for 100 tons of gold!" Only to have it deposited on your head.
    Or "I want to be a star!" And thus you are. A shining dot in the sky.

    Arabian Nights has a bit of it, I believe.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:44 No.14104144
    A party of adventurers have accidentally triggered a mind transfer trap, and their minds have been randomly swapped between each others bodies.

    They could trigger the trap on purpose to switch back, but its devious creator designed the trap so that it can only make one swap between any two bodies (regardless of whose mind is in them).

    Fortunately, slightly under level appropriate monsters roam the nearby rooms, and if they can be subdued the party can use their bodies to temporarily store someone's mind.

    Is it possible to get everyone back in their own body, and at most how many monsters will the party need to defeat in order to do so?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:45 No.14104159
    The person is saying that what you called a riddle isn't a riddle. It's a word problem, yes, but not a riddle.

    Please, if English isn't your first language, bow out of this particular argument. You must understand that the meanings of words can exceed specific instances of formal definition.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:50 No.14104207

    "Riddle: a question or statement so framed as to exercise one's ingenuity in answering it or discovering its meaning."

    Stop being a tart.
    It's not even an argument.
    I am giving examples of things which have been fun for players, and by definition, are riddles.

    He may not consider it a riddle by his own classification.
    But by definition-- it is.
    And no less so than "arrange the lettered tiles on a board."
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)20:59 No.14104321
    Next the party needs to recover the keystones used to calibrate the portal there adversary has fled through. Each keystone is held within a separate room, and the hallways between the rooms are each guarded by a fearsome monster.

    The guardians aren't the brightest monsters in the manual though, and the party might be able to bluff or plead their way past them. They'll only fall for that trick once, though, and after that there's no way through without a fight.

    Perhaps a cunning leader, with a little help from a map, could collect all the stones without having to fight a single guard.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)21:02 No.14104355

    Can someone explain the whole toothpick/cube riddle to my dumbass?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)21:06 No.14104402
    Personally, it's the riddle that's dumb.

    If you combine two parts of a broken toothpick, you've taken parts and made a whole. So by a process of extreme and nonsensical equivocation, you've made a 'hole' that apparently leads out of your prison.
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)21:14 No.14104509
    Would it qualify as an antanaclasis?
    >> Anonymous 03/02/11(Wed)21:29 No.14104696
    I don't think so, since the two words are only homophones rather than homonyms.

    I admit that I'm not actually sure if that matters, though.

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