Is my "help" still wanted? I was reviewing all of the crunch so far.

>>13936333
All help appreciated and encouraged.

>>13936333

Of course it is. Also, I'm a little gay for you.

Anyway, Rejections!

>Schools of Subversion:

>Communion: Access to knowledge from outside the mortal realm.
>Mindscape: Power over the conscious minds of others.
>Dreamscape: Influencing dreams and have them influence reality.
>Hypergeometry: The warping of space and time through symbols and spells.
>Superposition: The observer influences what a given system will collapse into (Luck powers)
>Polymorphism: Control over one's physical form and that of others.
>Corruption: Disease & decay oriented.
>Violation: Alters the basic laws of physics as understood by humanity.

>Acquiring Rejections
>Proposal 1: Discipline Like
>Upgrading Rejections seem appropriate.An Outsider will be able to buy powers from Schools associated with his Sect normally, with access to the rest at an increased cost. What I'm not sure about is if we should give the Schools themselves some method to exert power or to live them just as categories.
>(Most teminiscent of Vampire)

>Proposal 2:
>an alternative to upgrading the single Rejections would be to give them a one time cost to learn them (one dot) and have their power determined by dots in the School they belong to.
>So lets say you buy a new Hypergeometry Rejection at 6xp and since you have Hypergeometry at level 2 you have access to level 1 & 2 of that Rejections. Once you raise Hypergeomentry to 3 you unlock level 3 powers for all your known Rejections belonging to Hypergeomentry.
>(Somewhat reminiscent of Geist)

>Proposal 3:
>Break up the scaling Rejections and purchase each power individually.
>(Similar to Werewolf or Promethean)

>Proposal 4:
>Suggest something.

just curious but
do you have magic as a separate thing?
like books you can find/steal and learn from that anyone can cast spells from? cause that tends to be a staple of the cthulhu mythos

>>13936461
Rejections are accessible to Outsiders, but Rituals can be used by anyone. Some Rejections will be available as Rituals too, but which ones is something to be determined.

>>13936461

We've got two separate things: Rejections and Rituals.

Rejections are the magical powers that Outsiders alone can manifest, that come from their bond with their God and their increasingly alien existence. Rituals are the more traditional Lovecraftian Magic. Everyone can learn them (though it takes a strain on sanity), but Outsiders are better at them due to their innate connection to the Mythos.

Rejections will generally come "naturally" to Outsiders. Rituals are learned from books, or taught by other entities, so anyone can learn them.

>>13936370
I guess I'll start with the Google document.

>Favored Attribute: Becoming an outsiders alters your body and mind, but the ‘how’ depends on the sect. You buy your Sect’s favored Attribute at lesser cost >[Dots X4] instead of [Dots X5].
My main problem with this is that it punishes players raising their stats high at char gen and in the best case is worth 14 xp. Vampire and Mage both grant a free dot. The Slasher bonus is probably a bit too far. I suppose you might be going for a weaker bonus.

>Starspawned Savant: Presence
>Shepard of the Silver Key: Intelligence
>Young of the Thousand: Strength
>Scion of the Yellow Sign: Wits
>Courtier of the Black Pharaoh: Manipulation
The only one I'm a bit iffy on is the Scions of the Yellow Sign. I suppose Wits could fit with the perception angle.

>Favored Skills: It doesn't matter whether you embrace your heritage or not, you'll still know far more than you'd want to. Being an Outsider you have an easier time acquiring certain skills. The relevant skills cost [Dots X2] instead of [Dots X3].
It's balanced against Changeling at least. Seems ok.

>>13936497
k
was just curious cause I don't have time to read it right now

when it comes to cthulhu in...anything I'm usually torn. on one hand its great to see it more and more, on the other it's rarely done well and is usually an insult to the original concepts, while on the other hand that doesn't mean there can't be fun in it

>>13936515
>Favored Attribute
The thought was to give a consistent bonus over play vs just at the start.

>>13936516
We're trying to stay consistent to the fluff, tho a few concessions must be made to make the concept playable in nWoD.

Is anyone hunting the Outsiders? Like, a rag-tag FBI special unit in the vein of X-Files, bonded together by a secret society tradition and protocol.

>>13936516

If you're a Lovecraft purist, you probably won't like it. Then again, if you're a Lovecraft purist I'd struggle to think of any Cthulhu-based RPG you'd enjoy. I'd just suggest you read it over when you get the chance with an open mind. We're trying to do Lovecraft justice as well as making a fun game. Hell, the biggest theme of what we've got so far is alienation and how you react to that, which is pretty Lovecraftian.

>>13936515

I thought the free dot was a bit too variable in its benefit. If you've got low stats to begin with, you get less of an xp benefit than someone who had high stats to begin with. Plus, as Mythos increases, your stats can go above 5, so it's not a small bonus. I'd be happy to change it though.

With the SotYS, I was thinking both in terms of Wits being used for writing fiction and Wits being used for perception. The ever-degrading corruptive influence of Hastur means that Outsiders linked to him are more aware of the changing nature of reality. Or something like that.

>>13936577
MISKATONIC UNIVERSITY

Arkham, Massachusets, has always been a magnet for weirdness and magic. The campus only really became connected with the Mythos in the 1920's through the actions of Doctor Henry Armitage, the University's head librarian. His investigations into the Outsiders of the Whateley family in Dunwich, led him to investigate further, often in collaboration with Professors Peaslee, Wilmarth and Dyer.

Today, Miskatonic University has gone far beyond its humble first stumblings into the Mythos. Even as Arkham has lost much of its significance, the University has maintained a fairly respectable position amongst American Universities. This place of learning has, over the years, however, become the centre of a fairly hardened anti-Mythos conspiracy.

Every year brings a new source of recruits for the conspiracy who are, throughout their time at university, subtly tested as to their suitability for a front-line role in the struggle against the Mythos. Those who are found to have the right qualities are quietly given the final test. Those who survive with their sanity intact are properly inducted into the Alumni. Those who die, or go insane, are carefully dumped. The higher than usual rate of drop-outs and disappearances from Miskatonic has, until now at least, mostly gone un-noticed or ignored.

The University acts as a hub for the conspiracy, which now controls much of Arkham itself. Substantial town regeneration projects have seen the town redesigned so that it acts as a protective seal, as well as a binding ritual to keep certain entities bound in the basements of the university. Beyond Arkham, Miskatonic's Alumni are everywhere. The university does its best to foster stronger than usual bonds between students, so that even those who do not get inducted fully will respond when called upon to help out some fellow former students.

>>13936577

Everyone, in a word.

The reality-warping effects of Outsiders mean that generally, they don't have many fans. Mages, especially hate them, because they're fundamentally Beyond what Mages usually deal with. Werewolves probably hate them for disrupting the spirit world. Sin-Eaters probably hate them because Outsiders tend to make ghosts. Changelings either hate them because they remind them of the True Fae, or see them as potential allies if you roll with the suggestion that the Elder Gods were the True Fae.

On the Hunter front, pretty much everyone has a reason to kill them. Beyond that, I just wrote up an updated Miskatonic University as a compact that specialises in using their knowledge to fight the Mythos and Outsiders in particular. Then, of course, there's Delta Green or PISCES or whatever, but they've been written up far better than we could elsewhere.

>>13936617
The Inducted Alumni make for formidable anti-Outsider Hunters. The Restricted Collection in the University Library has continued to grow, first under the efforts of Armitage and then his successors. This would be a massively useful tool for any Hunter organisation, since the University tends to buy up whatever books it can on the supernatural before ascertaining their
usefulness. Although the Collection has barely been touched by digitization (the worries of what would happen if certain books went online have stopped this), the University has set up a system by which trusted Alumni can contact certain staff from a distance in order to consult the books indirectly. The Alumni often utilise the magic in these books, though mostly only tried, tested and understood rituals.

Miskatonic University's Hunters do not exclusively focus on the Mythos, or on Outsiders, though they tend to leave more earthly supernatural threats to other Hunter groups. How important is a group of vampires running a city, occasionally draining a few people, when compared to the apocalyptic consequences of the Mythos?

is it playable, in its current form?

I've been looking for a game to play, and testing is fine

...I dunno ab out this, it seems more or less like a dark reflection of Mage.

>You are special and more human than other humans
>You are special and more alien than human

>You can use magic to reshape reality to you whims, but be careful, reality is like a rubber band
>You can use magic to violate reality around you, but be careful, rip a hole too large and you fall out of existence

and so on.

>>13936619

Oh, okay. I never played CoC so i wouldn't know.

Some original factions can't hurt, methinks

What's the goal? I know WoD generally has grey areas, but I tend to like the races with more of a defined job/goal.
Hunters hunt, werewolves guard the spirit, prometheans want souls

>>13936646

I reckon it's probably on the verge of playable in a very, very basic form. Definitely still a load of things to be done, but the foundations are there.

>>13936679
>Hunters hunt, werewolves guard the spirit, prometheans want souls

Outsiders corrupt reality.

>>13936413
>Of course it is. Also, I'm a little gay for you.
Unfortunately for us both, I'm painfully straight. Thank you anyway.

>Acquiring Rejections
Ahh. This is very important to the feel of the game, so it can't be tackled from a crunch point of view alone.

>Proposal 1: Discipline (or Contract) Like
>Upgrading Rejections seem appropriate.
This is a very fixed method. I'm not sure how well it fits the Outsider's theme, as it leads to players having a small pool of abilities to rely on. Powers would need to follow a similar progression to Vampire as well, with each level granting a distinct ability. No level should feel like an xp tax. Crunch-wise, it's probably the easiest to balance.

> An Outsider will be able to buy powers from Schools associated with his Sect normally, with access to the rest at an increased cost.
Ok.

>What I'm not sure about is if we should give the Schools themselves some method to exert power or to live them just as categories.
Could you elaborate on this at all?

>>13936704
Perhaps I shoulda been more clear.
Are they trying to awaken/release their boss or otherwise bring about The End?

>>13936725
>>Proposal 2:
>an alternative to upgrading the single Rejections would be to give them a one time cost to learn them (one dot) and have their power determined by dots in the School they belong to.
This has the potential to be very xp efficient. If new powers can be aquired cheaply, players could have many tricks to work with. It also makes ranks in the School incredibly useful. Very hard to price, as different people would get different benefits from every purchase. Also very hard to balance powerwise. On the other hand, it does give players a lot of freedom, which might work in this kind of game, as well as allowing for susequent ranks of a power only being small upgrades.

>(Somewhat reminiscent of Geist)
In my opinion, Geist takes it too far. They are too powerful for too little xp, as well as the powers equalling or exceeding other splats at lower levels. Use as a warning sign.

>Proposal 3:
>Break up the scaling Rejections and purchase each power individually.
>(Similar to Werewolf or Promethean)
If priced badly, this leads to players being very limited, but it does allow for a grab bag of abilities.

>>13936659

I'll be honest, it's almost like a bastard hybrid of Geist, Changeling, Mage and Promethean. Bits of all four. The twin personality alien/human hybrid aspect of Geist, the threat of the thing that changed you side of Changing, the reality-warping, paradox-avoiding of Mage and the corrupting, disquieting of Promethean. But it's a little more than that.

>>13936679

Ultimately, it depends on what sort of creed your character follows. Servants will want to make the Stars Right and bring the Old Ones back and wipe humanity off the face of the Earth. Rebels will want to seal them out properly and fuck over Servants. Deniers will want to undo what's happened and return to being normal humans. Masters will want to acquire personal power. Dreamers will want to protect the wonderful things they've found, maybe to the extent of going Somewhere Else altogether.

>>13936725
>What I'm not sure about is if we should give the Schools themselves some method to exert power or to live them just as categories.

Should you be able to invest XP in the schools themselves (not just rejections) and what effect would that have.

Who weels and deals for The Outsiders? I mean, has to be some opposing force to the Miskatonik, maybe not as organized but aware of the Mythos and general ongoings.

I mean, Outsiders gotta go somewhere or to someone for special needs.

Maybe a rogue antiques dealer dabbling in occult, or a withering branch of Seattle mob unter the leadership of a patriarch who encountered Old Ones in his muddy pat and sold his souls for the preservaton of the family.

>>13936659
That is in fact part of the design brief, or at least it was the last time I checked.

>>13936533
I can see that. The problem is I'm not sure how well that would work. It's very easy to start with 4 in the important stats, which would mean the bonus would only give a 4 xp price cut. Of course, I'm not all knowing.

Does anyone here have experience playing Changelings with cost reductions? If so, how did it work out for you?

>>13936579
>Plus, as Mythos increases, your stats can go above 5, so it's not a small bonus.
I forgot about that actually. Saved xp could add up. Perhaps consider allowing Outsiders to raise their favoured attribute one dot higher than normal for their Mythos.

>>13936772
well, traditionally (not speaking about the game), cults are led by their master, who have been touched by or influenced by one of the great old ones or their minions, or they've received their own view of things and decided to go from there

sometimes nyarlathotep (who is one of the few great old ones who is not imprisoned in any way) acts as a contact between great old ones and their servants, but often he manipulates things for his own mysterious reasons

>>13936772
There are a 1001 cults, some of which you can head yourself.
Hell, if you are an Outsider that opposes his nature you can empower groups of Hunters with Rituals.

>>13936807

That seems reasonable.

But what for the Rebels, Deniers and Dreamers.

As i understand, they are sort of in between.

Who covers that grey area?

>>13936725
>Associations list (V 0.1.3):
>Starspawned Savant: Communion, Dreamscape, Corruption
>Sheppard of the Silver Key: Communion, Superposition, Hypergeometry
>Young of the Thousand: Polymorphism, Corruption, Violation
>Scion of the Yellow Sign: Mindscape, Violation, Dreamscape
>Courtier of the Black Pharaoh: Mindscape, Hypergeometry, Polymorphism

>Associations list (V 0.1.3b):
>Starspawned Savant: Communion, Dreamscape, Hypergeometry
>Sheppard of the Silver Key: Communion, Superposition, Hypergeometry
>Young of the Thousand: Polymorphism, Corruption, Violation
>Scion of the Yellow Sign: Mindscape, Corruption, Dreamscape
>Courtier of the Black Pharaoh: Mindscape, Violation, Polymorphism
This seems fine.

>The only problem I see with this is that now Cthulhu and Yog Sothoth are far too similar as well as Nyarlathotep and Shub-Niggurath, sharing two of the same rejections each...
I concur. Simply put, the second list doesn't distribute the powers evenly enough. They do fit thematically, but there is very little between some of the gods.

>>13936772

There's no overarching conspiracy working for Outsiders. They aren't numerous enough for that to occur. All of the things you've mentioned are possibilities. Human occultists and criminals might well be their most obvious points of human contact. Then of course, there's the big cults that pulpy Call of Cthulhu is famous for. Even if Outsiders don't build up their own cults, they'll often be in contact with cultists working with their god.

In the end, the only people Outsiders will really be able to rely upon are themselves and the cultists they bend to their will. Even other Outsiders they're working with can't be trusted.

>>13936843

Rebels might find themselves banding together, or even working with Hunters or other Supernaturals. Anyone who'll listen to them really. I doubt Rebels would normally really last long enough or have enough numbers to make a substantial power-structure to support themselves independently.

Deniers would probably try their best to avoid other Outsiders altogether. The possibility of Outsiders Anonymous is probably fairly low.

Dreamers would probably band together based on the particular place they've found. Dreamers who want to go to Carcosa might band together with cultists of Hastur, Dreamers who've found their home in the Dreamlands might work with human psychologists or sleep therapists to build up little cults.

>>13936922

>Dreamers ...might work with human psychologists or sleep therapists to build up little cults.

Silver Key Medical Corporation

Guarding your sleep since 1926

Bumping with some art an awesome drawfag did

>>13936860
The "seems fine" should apply to the first list. Stupid mistake.

>-Digest anything: You can obtain sustenance from anything, tho you can still be poisoned
Once again Promethean has a precendant for this.
>Merit: Acid Stomach (o)
>A Promethean [can] already... eat nearly any kind of organic matter, from filet mignon to crushed car raccoon. With this merit, the Promethean can eat most inorganic matter, too... [I]f the Promethean can get it into his mouth and down his throat, then it counts as food.
This is based on already being able to eat carrion or slime moulds, so for a human it would be more like oo, maybe ooo.

>-Resist Pain: Feeling has started to loose meaning for you. You heal Bashing damage in half the time.
An interesting effect for something one would expect to reduce wound penalties. This is identical to Fast Healing (oooo) from the core.

>-Hibernation: You can hibernate for long periods of time without need for any sustenance and impervious to the elements. You are completely unaware of the world around you until you are awakened unless you have Rejections that allow you to project your will (Mindscape or Dreamscape mostly)
I love Promethean.
>Bestowment: Heart of Stone
A Galateid with this Bestowment ... [turns] for all intents and purposes into a mannequin or statue.
Cost: 1P
Effect: [She turns into an inanimate figure at will, and remain in this form for as long as she chooses (deciding when she plans to wake up before she petrifies herself)] ...Promethean specific stuff... The Galateid isn't aware of what's going on around her when she's in statue form, although if anyone approaches her ... the player can roll Wits+Azoth to become aware.

This could be adapted easily. Remove the bits about turning to stone and you're set.

>>13937257
>-Resist poison: You aren't affected by substances in the same way anymore +2 bonus to resist being poisoned
I don't have my corebook available at the moment I'm afraid, but I believe this is identical to Toxin Resistance.

>-Resist Fear: You have seen things people wouldn’t believe. Hell, you are something people wouldn’t believe. +2 bonus to resist fear effects
This also seems fitting for a 2 dot merit.

In general, each of these seems to be a 2/3 dot merit, while the fast healing is a bit more useful. Seems ok.

>The higher your Mythos the slower you age and at Mythos 10 you stop aging all together.
Does this want to be on a Changeling timescale or longer? Either way, consulting the Changeling Wyrd table might help.

>>13937194
if you wish to make this thread appeal more to the general audience, someone might want to post more fluff. Crunch can be offputting.

>>13937191

>mages_against_the_mythos.jpeg

He stood outside of the maternity ward and ran his fingers across the glass, leaving a faint smudge. Rows and rows of newborn babies, each snug in a perfectly color coded blanket. Pink for the boys, blue for the girls. Such little wonders. Each a thriving life, a veritable factory that would one day pump out more just like them. A gift that rivaled only the gift bestowed upon him.

Even now he could feel them, a honeycomb of soft blisters along his shoulder blades and down his spine. Every time he shifted his weight, his uniform rasped against the pustules in a pleasurable frisson, threatening gooseflesh on his arms. First they were small, mere pin-pricks, but in time they grew and ripened into fat mounds each the size of his thumb. The flesh covering them was taut and nearly transparent. He could still taste the joy he felt that first day he stared at them in the mirror and saw the small black dots squirming within. Certainly it was the taste of bile when he retched into the toilet, but that too was joy. The very processes of life itself!

Soon, too soon, it would be time and he'd have his own young to care for. He knew what would be next. The careful gathering and preparation of the birthed. Each would be placed within a single bottle of infant formula, and there in those glorious newborns, the cycle would begin again. A thousand young bearing a thousand, thousand young! Glorious!

He turned to go back to work, one more faceless orderly in the hospital. He scratched idly at his throat, feeling the tell-tale pin-prick bumps growing there. Simply glorious.

>Mutations
Something no game can go without.
There are four categories of Mutations:
>Weapons: Mutations that turn you into a living engine of destruction
>Armor: Your body is your fortress.
>General: Mutations that give you enhanced capabilities.
I don't particularly see why these are categorised.

>Liabilities: Negative effects that can be inflicted on others and even yourself
Ok. You might also want to include some mutations which both help and hinder you.

>An Outsider gains a compulsory mutation on Quiescence 7, 5, 3, 1, at 0 the Outsider has succumbed completely to his alien nature.
Do players start at Q 7? Otherwise, this seems ok.

>The first is (•), the second (••), etc.
Ok.

>Also an outsider may choose to gain a Liability instead of a derangement when loosing Quiescence.
Interesting. I quite like it.

>Additional mutations can be purchased with xp.
Have you considered tying this to Polymorphism? Perhaps limit the level of mutation by the ranks in poly or give a price reduction for mutations below your poly ranks.

>>13937257
>>13937270
Those are actually based on a three dot Pandoran Transmutation, with secondary effects removed.
I thought I was being original with Hibernation ;_;

She had weaseled her way into a small mining companies board - none of the old farts paid notice to the her, the newest secretary. It had been test for her, she would have bankrupted the company in one month flat, channeling their funds into the accounts of her nature loving friends (with a meager 60% margin for her own pockets), but then she found the maps and blueprints. They fascinated her ... and were utterly alien.

But the theft had alerted the true "bosses" of the company. They were nasty things to behold, the Space Crabs she called them. They whispered to her in the night, wanting her mind - dragging her through their collected brain cylinders - like in those B-movies her fiance liked.

Instead came the pain, searing pain, turning her insides to ice, her brain inside out...
When the pain ended she could see the Space Crabs as what the were. Pathetic Slaves to their own eldritch gods.
She fled into the night, flying on alien wings, scaling walls like the "Human Fly" movie guy, seeing in pitch blackness.

They tried to make her into something like themselves, now she was like these superheroes from her fiance's comics - powerful yet alien.

She would make them pay, Space crabs be damned.

>>13937378
read on and you will see why the categories are there,
Yes, you start at 7.
There is a Rejection that improves the limit in Polymorphism, but we didn't want to tie Mutations exclusively to that since they are a big part of the concept.

I've no idea why I'm writing this. A confession, maybe? A guide for others to follow in my footsteps? A suicide note? Lab notes?

Regardless of the purpose, I shall try to record the progress of the ritual as best as I can. If I should fail, then perhaps this will help identify my errors, so that I might try again to remove this curse.

The subjects, excluding myself, are 24 students of mine, aged between 7 and 8. I took them from school at gunpoint, also taking Peter Scott, another teacher, as the necessary catalyst. When there was protest, I showed them my true form, and they were silent. I drove the bus back to the Temple, which they could not see at first. I opened the way and they followed. I can only hope that by performing the ritual here, He will not be able to interfere.

The centre of the ritual is the Stone. It took many months of searching for it, though I eventually located it in the ruins of an ruined church, apparently burnt as the result of an investigation into some sort of cult centuries ago. The Stone is a red-veined, oddly shaped Trapezohedron that, according to my research, acts as some sort of conduit for Him. I intend to utilise the Stone's conductive powers to transfer the taint. My research indicates that this has been done before, though not with the same Stone, or on this scale. The records I've read indicate that past efforts focused on the transfer from one to another. I believe that by dividing the infection between many, its effects on their lives will be minimised. There will, no doubt, be some trauma from this experience, but I will be free of this curse, and free of Him. That is a price worth paying. So I begin.

>>13937413

The first stages of the experiment went smoothly. The Stone responded in the way I predicted it would, when the catalyst was activated. I consumed the drug, and the other subjects (after some persuasion) did the same. It is an incredibly curious feeling. I am somewhat light-headed, but perhaps that is just excitement about what is to follow.
---
What have I done? The children are all screaming or crying and struggling at their restraints. They see what I saw. I should kill each of them now to spare them the sight of it, but I can't bring myself to. The ritual worked. I'm free. I can't hear Him any more.

I didn't want any of this. I called Him up on a whim, little suspecting that he would actually come. He promised me wealth and power, the sort that I could barely dream of. I agreed, barely comprehending what He asked me to do in return. He changed me, but when it came to it, I could not do what He told me to. It was too monstrous, too huge. So I ignored Him. But things got worse. The dreams continued. I saw glimpses of them even while waking. My body changed too, I stopped eating or drinking, and my skin grew grey and unhealthy. And the children, with whom I had gotten on so well, seemed distant. Even other teachers stopped talking to me, except when necessary. My long-term girlfriend left too, with barely an explanation. None was needed.

So I devoted myself to undoing my mistake, finding some way to reverse His influence. And this led me to here. Alone in a room filled with screaming children and a corpse on the blood-stained floor. The Stone, still active and glowing, casts everything in a low, crimson light. I've got to get out.

>>13937438

It won't work. The doors won't open. I can't leave. I'm human again, so I can't unlock the portal back to reality. Maybe one of the children could do it, if I taught them how.

The children have stopped screaming. They just stare at the Stone now, like they're listening. Listening to Him maybe. Good god, what if this was all He ever wanted from me? What if I was wrong, and each of those children will become like I was?

They're staring at me now. They don't say anything, but I can see what it is that they want. I should kill them now before they get free, before they get out. It's the only way that anyone could stop them.

But they're just children.

mm
some of the writers of cthulhu mythos, though their work is...detestable in how well it meshes with lovecraft's original idea

well they match up nyarlathotep with the concept of communication (he is a personification of the methods the great old ones use to communicate with each other, but with their imprisonment has developed his own domains, of sort)
and shub niggurath is, of course, symbolic for reproduction, which could be a creation-of-life sort of thing, as well as having more of a....primal basis in things

>>13937378
>Each Mutation has a certain dot cost,
Good.

>an Outsider is limited in how many dots he can have in total in each category (if your limit is 4 you can have at most 4X(•) mutations or 2X(••) mutations 1X(•) + 1X(•••) mutation or one (••••) mutation in each category)
Ok.

>Max possible dots in Mutations per category:
>5 or 10 dots from Mythos (depends if we decide that you gain one every level or every second level) + 5 from maxed [Master Flesh Carver]
The most powerful pandorans typically have 30 dots in Transmutations (Mutations), but they only have mutatuons. 10 dots per category is a lot, but 5 is perhaps too limiting. I'm leaning towards 5 with numerous ways to break the limit. I suppose if most players will stick around the Mythos 5 area, giving one point per Mythos would work for the best.

I assume Master Flesh Carver is a merit. Also, Polymorphism could play a role here. One can add her Poly ranks to the limit, or there are rejections to grant temporary mutations beyond the limit.

>+5 for YotT (dependent on favored stat) distributed as you want among all the categories
Ok, assuming other x splats gain similar bonuses.

>Suppression:
>By spending a will point the Outsider can suppress the mutations for a number of hours equal to to his Will + Quiescence. The suppression can be canceled at any time, tho another will point must be spent to reactivate it. (could be boosted by a rejection or merit)
Very useful if you want the game to remain social for any period of time.

>>13937586
>I assume Master Flesh Carver is a merit. Also, Polymorphism could play a role here. One can add her Poly ranks to the limit, or there are rejections to grant temporary mutations beyond the limit.

It's a Rejection, so it's easier to purchase for those who have polymorphism as a main school

The way I was thinking of dividing body altering abilities was (using Promethean as a guide):
>Is it permanent without an additional Madness cost for activation?
It's a Mutation.
>Does it take Madness to activate?
It's a Polymorphism Rejection.

>>13937381
Oh right? Is that the Hundred Hands transmution? Either way they seem pretty much balanced.

>I thought I was being original with Hibernation ;_;
You were as original as possible. I mearly noticed that there was a precedent for the "sleeping indefinately" ability. And don't feel too down. There's nothing new under the sun.

>Eldritch Form
>By spending a point of quiescence the Outsider temporarily gains mutations as if he had a Mythos 10
Ok. Is this meant to allow players to become full Shoggoth? Also, would it last a full scene or a number of turns?

>(unless he has it he doesn't get the bonus from [Master Flesh Carver]).
This doesn't make any sense.

>What those Mutations are is best specified at character creation.
Ok

>When assuming the Eldritch Form due to dropping to Quiescence 0 the mutation limit is the current Mythos not 10.
Ok I suppose. It does substantially reduce the danger of a Q 0 ousider.

i always imagined Nyarlathotep speaking in an Orson Welles's Unicron voice, just words forming out of cosmic vastess and subsonic base

YOUR BARGAINING POSTURE IS HIGLY DUBIOUS. BUT VERY WELL. I WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH A NEW BODY, AND NEW TROOPS TO COMMAND

And?

AND NOTHING

YOU BELONG TO ME NOW

>>13937779
> Is that the Hundred Hands transmution?
The one.
>Is this meant to allow players to become full Shoggoth?
Yes
>Also, would it last a full scene or a number of turns?
Depends on how dangerous it turn out to be. A full scene is a pretty loose term after all, and an exact number of turns would be preferred I'd think.
>This doesn't make any sense.
Typo when replacing previous text.
He doesn't get the extension of the mutation limit given by the Rejection unless he has bought it.

>It does substantially reduce the danger of a Q 0 Outsider.
It was put in to dissuade people from intentionally trying to reach Q0 at low levels when Displacement isn't such an issue.

>Concerning Liabilities:
>An outsider can decide to take a relevant liability with certain mutations if so the main mutation costs a dot less.
Ok. This can cover the mutations which both help and hinder you.

>The liability counts as having the same number of dots as the main mutation for determining the maximum number of them that you can take.
I'm not sure about this. As there are three categories of good Mutations and only one of liabilities, they would be much more limited. Consider allowing unlimited liabilities, thus giving players infinite ability to screw themselves up.

>Removing a mutation:
>Removing a mutation is a ritual that inflicts a number of resistant damage to you equal to the cost of the mutation being removed. In exchange you get back half the xp you spent on it. If removing a Liability you must actually pay for the extra dot of the corresponding regular mutation. This way can't be used to remove mutations that are caused by loss of Quiescence.
This is fair enough I suppose. You might also want to allow character to redistribute their mutations, via a Ritual or Rejection. I can understand that removing them should be hard.

>Others:
>Thinking about the Masters of the Cult of Transcendence, maybe a common special ability for Outsiders could be that they can heal pretty much any damage they take by letting their alien side take over and spending madness.
Ok. Most splats have this in some form.

>Doing so is a sin against Quiescence (need to decide what level). Since basically the human flesh gets replaced by Something Else.
This would be harder to balance. No other splat suffers from degeneration while healing. Perhaps Outsider healing should be better than Vampire healing to make up for it. Anyway, for now just make it Vampire tier. 2M for aggravated. 1M for lethal and 1/2M for bashing.

>>13937909
>Depends on how dangerous it turn out to be.
Playtesting is a good thing. I think you're almost at a playable stage, if playable is used loosely.

>A full scene is a pretty loose term after all, and an exact number of turns would be preferred I'd think.
Indeed. Perhaps basing it on Werewolf Gauru form would help. Favoured attribute+Mythos turns. Maybe +(10-Quiessence).

>He doesn't get the extension of the mutation limit given by the Rejection unless he has bought it.
Right.

>It was put in to dissuade people from intentionally trying to reach Q0 at low levels when Displacement isn't such an issue.
You do become unplayable at Q0, which could be quite a disincentive in itself.

>>13937975

>This would be harder to balance. No other splat suffers from degeneration while healing. Perhaps Outsider healing should be better than Vampire healing to make up for it. Anyway, for now just make it Vampire tier. 2M for aggravated. 1M for lethal and 1/2M for bashing.

Fluff-wise, it made sense to me. Maybe you could have a cheap, but Quiescence-threatening option where wounded flesh is replaced with obviously alien muscle and skin, and a more expensive, but non-Quiescence threatening option where the replacement tissue is less obviously alien.

>>13938050
>You do become unplayable at Q0, which could be quite a disincentive in itself.

Actually we were thinking that the non playability should be handled by Displacement.

>>13938028
Fluff wise is definately makes sense, and not all splats are equally good at healing. It could just be that Outsiders are not very good at healing without going insane.

Also, bad news everybody (or good depending on your feelings about me). I have to go now. Sorry I haven't been able to contribute much. In general, the crunch seems sturdier than it used to be, but I've yet to look at proposed Rejections.

If this is still up in 18 hours I'll try to help more.

>>13938122
>Actually we were thinking that the non playability should be handled by Displacement.

Interesting. I'm not sure how a game about playable Shoggoths would work out.

>>13938144
Shouldn't be that different from a party full of oWoD Nosferatu.

>>13938144

Maybe if one player has really high Mythos and low Quiescence, they could stop playing the Outsider in social situations and start playing a high priest or cultist, Mouth of Sauron-type character.

"This is my master's will! I speak with His Voice! All will obey!"

>>13938125

Damn shame. Based on previous threads, we might well still be around by the time you get back.

>>13938233
Either way, I think it shouldn't be lower than a Q8 or 7 sin.

>>13939140

What, healing through surrender? Definitely. High enough not to make it totally unappealing, so it ties in with the themes of trading away your humanity for power and survival. Sure, you could wander round with that massive gunshot wound, or you could let it close over with alien tissue for a while.

Not an issue for anyone except Deniers, or Outsiders who are trying their best to appear human all the time.

>>13937586
>>+5 for YotT (dependent on favored stat) distributed as you want among all the categories
Ok, assuming other x splats gain similar bonuses.

That is something to be discussed.
What would be appropriate advantages for the other Sects?

One more bump so that this thread might survive the long, dark night.

>>13939700

Courtiers of the Black Pharaoh might either get something that allows them to pass for humans easier, or something that allows them to contact Nyarlathotep easily, since he's the only one of the Gods that's really going to take an active interest in what his Outsiders are doing.

Scions of the Yellow Sign could maybe make the Yellow Sign, spreading madness and insanity wherever they go, or maybe they get straight bonuses to initiative or defence to represent them being able to ride the waves of collapsing, decaying reality.

Starspawned Savants might be able to get some form of dream knowledge by sleeping and tapping into some collective unconscious, or get bonuses on any rolls while dreaming.

Keepers of the Silver Key might get bonuses on opening gates or summoning things, or on surviving in Other Places.

bumpin'. I was wonderin' why I hadn't seen an Outsider's thread lately. I'm lovin' this, guys, keep up the awesome work.

>>13941191

You haven't seen one because we've been working away in secret in the IRC. No need to overload /tg/ and encourage hatred. Come in and join us.

Let's talk fluff for a bit.
What do you people think should be the signature city for Outsider? The usual suspects are already taken by other Splats and while Arkham is always an option a non fictional American city would be preferred.

>>13944758

I would go for Arkham, were we not aiming for a real place. I don't really know much about the characteristics of various American cities, but it's going to have to be a fairly grim place, remembering that the themes of Outsider are based around alienation, and creeping dread at inexorable decay and degeneration.

I'd say New York if it wasn't already done by the Sin-Eaters, and by the Fate chapter in Delta Green.

>>13944955
What about Detroit?
Abandoned buildings and factories could lend to an appropriate air of decay.

>>13944758

Atlanta, Georgia.

>>13946109

Why there, specifically? Something in the water?

What about Atlantic City

>>13946109
>>13946143
What makes them appropriate for our purpose?

>>13946175

Well, Atlantic City is this sleazy, shoddy place varied in locations, from crack alleys and dive bars to penthouse highroller suites in Casinos, the waterfron and the port are kinda reminiscent of Arkham and Boston.

We're going for the Lovecraftian thing here, which always had an East Coast feel to it.

It would make a neat opposing metropolis

>>13946175

Atlanta. The City To Busy To Hate. Capital city of Georgia. Here, hate is weak. People work together, more often than not. Reality, as we understand it, is strong. Sanity reigns.

It must burn. It must change. Something is there, somethign keeping it safe from the influence of those Outside... but whatever that thing is, it has weakened. Outsiders can enter the city for the first time since it's founding.

And so in they go, to do their Patron's work... or to work against their own kind.

>>13946213

also, many opportunities for some rich and thick " well, i do deCLARE Mistah Bauregard"

>>13946266

Less than you'd think, honestly. Atlanta's the closest you can get to a northern city in the south when you're not in florida. The Southern Belle is more or less dead in this modern day and age.

Of course, a thick accent's still a thick accent.

>>13946211
Atlantic City gets points for being in New Jersey.

>>13946282

Just trying to have some fun, is all.

Game needs colourful NPC.

>>13946318

Oh, yeah, I know, that's fine. I'm just a Georgia native, and we've more or less been indoctrinated to spew facts whenever faced with stereotypes, even if the stereotypes aren't being stated to insult. My bad.

(And yes, the nice Southern Belle styled character who turns out to be an Outsider could be cool. I must think on this.)

>>13946325

I was thinking more about some powerhouse southern lawyer, in the vein of Hyperchiken, white seersuker suits and all that. Striking deals with Cosmic Horrors, having a giant plantation/mansion and not afraid of anything.

"Well, mah boy, i do implore you to teach them yankee hoopleheads from Arkham a lessahn they will never forget."

>>13946357

Oooh, even better. Effective use of stereotypes to further story. Will put more thought into this.

>>13946359
>>13946357

imagine him looking like this, only with the heavy "Southern Patriarch" gig

While a game set in the South would definitely be interesting. I think that tradition dictates it should be set somewhere in New England.
Alternatively, it was stated that Outsiders are few in number even when compared to other supernaturals, thus it might be a bit strange for them to be the main power in a city. As such it might be better to simply do a section on what niche the Outsiders fill in the cities of other supernaturals. Boston, New Orleans, etc.

>>13946585

That's definitely an option too. Unless we make a city into a particularly important spot, occult-wise, there's not really any reason for a load of Outsiders to congregate there.

>>13946726

Well, can't be Arkham too, because that would be a little derpy.

Like all the guys at Miscatonik running around libraries trying to find Outsiders, and then McNulty kinda strolls in "hey guys, i think they hang in that occult bookstore across the street"

Need more word from people spearheading this thing. I have a lot of free time on my hands and will to put effort in writing the fluff and fleshing out the setting, but we need more knowledge on where we stand here.

>>13946801

>McNulty

Outsiders in Baltimore?

>This is Baltimore gentlemen, the Gods will not save you.

And yeah, I rather like the idea that Miskatonic U. have Arkham locked down in supernatural terms.

Really, on the fluff and writefagging front, just fire away with anything you got. We've got the Document, which contains most of the ideas we've got at the moment, but anything you could add would be neat. Outsiders are different and disparate enough tat lots of different interpretations could fit.

>>13946854

>Outsiders in Baltimore?

pic related, a perfect archetypal Dreamer, chasing that Silver Key. So close, but yet so far away

When you walk through the garden
you gotta watch your back
well I beg your pardon
walk the straight and narrow track
if you walk with Jesus
he's gonna save your soul
you gotta keep the devil
way down in the hole
he's got the fire and the fury
at his command
well you don't have to worry
if you hold on to Jesus hand
we'll all be safe from Satan
when the thunder rolls
just gotta help me keep the devil
way down in the hole
All the angels sing about Jesus' mighty sword
and they'll shield you with their wings
and keep you close to the lord
don't pay heed to temptation
for his hands are so cold
you gotta help me keep the devil
way down in the hole

>>13946907
>>13946854

Other supernaturals in Baltimore?

Clearly, Omar's a Sin-Eater.

>>13946801
Truth be told we didn't talk much about that (strange for a /tg/ project), but I think the general consensus is to stick to the lovecraftian interpretation of the world.
The universe is the dream of azathoth.
Life as we know it was created by the Elder Things when they manipulated early organisms.
etc.
At least that is how Outsiders tell it.
One point to make is that all the lost cities of legend still exist, but are out of phase with reality.

>And yeah, I rather like the idea that Miskatonic U. have Arkham locked down in supernatural terms.

Why wouldn't they? Recall every encounter of Miskatonik scholars against the Mythos. Most of them are in the win column for the MU. And It's been almost a hundred years now, of such proud tradition and adventurous savantry.

So things must come to a clash in a place everyone is vying to control. A last renegade nautical gate into the country.

Might as well be Baltimore.

>>13947014

I think that is required to establish a conflict grounded in the material world, for easier campaign writing, as well as the esoteric fluff which is already written for us.

Say, the nautical passage is required to bring imprtant artifact into the country, but the East Coast ones are either secured by the Miskatonik Foundation or rivaling Cults. So, that gives us a good base for some powerplay and intrigue confined to a single city.

How many powerhouses do we need without clusterfucking the whole thing?

The Outsiders
Miskatonik University Foundation
Baltimore Port Authority (Mythos aware European criminal enterrpise)

What do you call regular people aware of the Mythos and The Conspiracy, but not being aligned with either side?

>>13947121

>but the East Coast ones are either secured by the Miskatonik Foundation or rivalling Cults

I think that gives a bit too much power to both the cults and Miskatonic. Miskatonic have people everywhere, but they're well-paid graduates in positions of power, they can't stop the smuggling of one artifact. And equally, other cults aren't everywhere, they're isolated and rarely in a position of power socially.

The rest of the idea is good, so maybe Baltimore happens to be built on some geographical curiosity, the magical gateway that's required for the MacGuffin to travel through. There is a cult however, probably in line with Deep Ones and worshipping Cthulhu, that runs the harbour and will know if the artifact is coming through. So another cult's muscling in on their action to guarantee safe passage. Add Rebels trying to stop whatever's going on, Deniers trying to stay the hell out of the way, and Masters aligned with local gangsters and politics, mix with mundane local criminals and law enforcement and other supernaturals. Leave to stew for several months.

Enjoy your madness.

>>13947401

Those are good for the real powerhouses. There'll be smaller players round about, but those are the big guys.

>What do you call regular people aware of the Mythos and The Conspiracy, but not being aligned with either side?

Neutrals?

>>13947443

Well, since we're sticking to HPL lore, it would be right to built it up agains a harbor.

>they can't stop the smuggling of one artifact

Maybe it's a huge artifact. Like really. Has to be brought in by supertanker class vessel, through the Atlantic Gateway specifically.

"Are you mad!? I'm not navigating this ship through The Pacific with THAT THING on board!"

[spoiler]maybe it's a passenger[/spoiler]

>>13938125
Amazing. I expected to find this sitting in the foggy area beyond page 10, if at all. Instead I find it on page 4. Anyway, back to imposing my opinions on others.

>>13939700
>>13939852
>Courtiers of the Black Pharaoh might either get something that allows them to pass for humans easier, or something that allows them to contact Nyarlathotep easily, since he's the only one of the Gods that's really going to take an active interest in what his Outsiders are doing.
Perhaps they have an improved ability to hide mutations. If they could hide mutations for days instead of hours they would essentially never have to deal with them. Alternatively, they could suffer reduced social penalties, though I'd need to look at the Displacement rules before proposing anything.

>Scions of the Yellow Sign could maybe make the Yellow Sign, spreading madness and insanity wherever they go, or maybe they get straight bonuses to initiative or defence to represent them being able to ride the waves of collapsing, decaying reality.
These both sound like Rejection ideas.

>>13947648

>Starspawned Savants might be able to get some form of dream knowledge by sleeping and tapping into some collective unconscious, or get bonuses on any rolls while dreaming.
This sounds like Dreamscape rejections. A simple bonus to Dreamscape is rather boring, however.

>Keepers of the Silver Key might get bonuses on opening gates or summoning things, or on surviving in Other Places.
Bonuses to rituals dealing with summoning. Seems ok.

>>13945197
Detroit is taken. It's the closest thing to a signiture city Promethean is ever going to get.

>>13947648
>Displacement rules
Yeah, we need ideas for those.
Other than 1: Animals hate you and 10: Your are thrown out of existence, there is nothing concrete yet.

Is there any particular reason it can't just be Boston? That's about as New England as it gets and Arkham was always described a short ways North of Boston, allowing them to be actively involved.

>1895 Portsh

Yes Captcha, that's exactly the feel we're going for

The is precedent for Lovecraft Activity in NYC as well.

Remember the Horror at Red Hook? A port in Brooklyn.

>>13947699

>Boston

Such close proximity to Arkham more likely than not makes it a Miskatonik University Foundation/Alumni domain.

We're looking for a clean slate here, fresh new mystery prize.

Baltimore works out so far.

To you, Elder Things of /tg/, a
>quilde marked
bump.

>>13947722
It's Sin Eater territory. Tho Red Hook could be noted as the hub for Outsider activity when in New York.
>>13947699
Boston is Mage territory.

>>13947761
>Red Hook could be noted as the hub for Outsider activity when in New York.
Similarly there could be one or two major cults in New Orleans that are lead by Outsiders that appear on the outside as Vodun practitioners, that have to deal with Vampires to stay unmolested.

What's this about the Baltimore Harbor Authority ?

The idea of some mundane, qoutidian organization or authority figure turning out to be a major mover and shaker in the illicit underworld of the mythos dealers is greatly appealing

>FACTIONS (Proposed alternative names: Delusions, Creeds)
"Creeds" sounds nice. Let people vote?

>The Servants - Do as your masters command
>The Masters - Help yourself.
>The Rebels - Use their powers against them.
>The Deniers - You're perfectly normal. Totally.
>The Dreamers - Gather information, artifacts and power.
The typical y splats follow: Progressive/different, Leaders, Warlike, Mystical, Secret Police, Wild Antagonist, Organised Antagonist, though this is far from religiously observed.

>>13948295
Using this framework:
>Masters: Progressive
>Dreamers: Mystical
>Rebels: Organised Antagonist
>Servants: (Inverted) Leaders
>Deniers: n/a
My main problem with these Creeds is that it would be very hard to have a game with Deniers and any other Creed, and the the same can be said of Rebels. Also, Deniers aren't typically viable in the nWoD, or at least don't gain the same bonuses as "proper" factions.

I would recommend thinking up a few other factions. The Mad (Lunatics?) could fit the Wild Antagonist mould nicely. Admittedly, I'm finding it hard to think up potential factions which mix well with the existing ones. Perhaps a group that believes the stars are not yet right, and aim to keep Outsiders out of the public eye.

>Displacement is the gap between Quiescence and Mythos. If an Outsider's Mythos is higher than Quiesence, then he begin to suffer penalties as reality begins to reject him. These are both mechanical penalties and storyteller fiat penalties.
I don't think this mechanic will work very well. Player characters are unlikley to have very high Mythos, so Q would have to be very low before this comes into play and even then it would be a very small number. If this is meant to limit players in any way, it would be best to make it more universal.

I would recommend looking at Paradox and Disquiet, but both mechanics are rather weak. How powerful is Displacement meant to be?

>>13946325
Where was it Lovecraft himself places the "negroid and mulatto" Cthulu cult?
I remember it being down south in the damp and swampy places.
Clashes between cultists, wogans, shamans, pagans and whatnot in the bayou

>>13948383
>How powerful is Displacement meant to be?
Permanent penalties that get worse as Displacement raises. Anything above five would start to be more a guide line for the ST rather than a number.

>>13948444
>>13948444
New Orleans

>>13946357
"Oh we don't have slaves anymore, pappy gave them their freedoms back before the wars started, but after working' the shafts under th' house and eating food planted in th' soil dug out from there, they dun wanna leave, almost rioted when he talked of sendin' them off, says the all to twisted t' be free"

>>13948466
Ah, dunno to much about US geography, I just go by sound, if it sounds french it's south and a such damp.

>Quiescence Sin Dice
So, Quiescence is a direct measure of how human the character is? Losing Q indicates that the player has lost some sense of what it means to be limited by the laws of our section of the universe? I believe mage has the closest system to what you want, although it is meant to represent hubris.

>10 Using rejections at all. 5
Mage has this level as "Using magic to accomplish a task that could be achieved just as well without it." Do we want to be more strict than mage?

>09 Cause a minor derangement, blatant reality perversion. 4
Ok. Blatant reality perversion suggests very serious acts, which would be lower level sins. Perhaps "Observable reality perversion." Even then level 9 sins are normally on the level of "Minor Selfish act".

>08 Minor Changes on reality, Use a rejection on a mundane character 4
Ok, I think.

>07 Showing mortals the secret of the universe 4
Ok. Other example might help.

>06 Cause a Major Derangement(Just causing a derangement on someone that is sane is worse than doing it on someone that is already broken) 3
So this is "Cause a Major Derangement or cause a minor derangement in a perviously sane person."?

>>13949025
>05 Human Sacrifice (Sacrifice must be to some arcane end, not simple murder)) 3
04 Cause an area to lose Quiescence 2
Relating to both of these, Mage has level 5 as turning a human into a pig and level 4 as "Using magic to harm someone." This also seems suitable for Outsiders.

>03 Major alteration of reality, (needs to be more specific) using a Major Rejection (level 5), Major Human Sacrifice (10 or more lives) 2
Acceptable, but remember some Rejections might count as major alterations before rank 5.

>02 Repeating indulgence of the previous sins 1
Mage has murder using magic at this level. Also, actually leaving reality (if possible) would be around this level.

>01 Willfully endanger the fabric of creation (Let the Old Ones back in), Massive Human Sacrifice (more than 20 at one time. Again, simply killing them doesn’t count.) 1
Ok.

>>13949033
>You regain Quiescence by Expending Experience or at ST discretion if he feels you character has done something to reconnect him with reality.
Supernaturals tend to need both xp AND ST discretion.

>Places can be shifted and affected by Quiescence in the same way Outsiders are.
Interesting. Would they be shifted by the same Sins?

>Whether it's a damned old Church that was the site of some horrendous ritual two centuries ago and that disappeared from the mortal world,
Would they disappear from the world as soon as they drop from Q10? Areas like this abound in the works of Lovecraft, so it would be best if mortals can interact with them for a least some drop in Q. Perhaps people can interact with anything within X Q below them. Does 2 or 3 sound appropriate?

>or a place like Atlantis
Mages wouldn't be very happy with this.

>Outsiders can still see these and enter them with the right rituals, since they're somewhat similarly out of step with reality.
Ok.

>Other supernaturals and mortals can also enter them but it takes much more powerful rituals or the luck of a plot device to let them in.
If we use the mechanic that Supernaturals count as Q7 and people can interact with anything up to X below them, supers would be more able to deal with "weird places" more easily than mortals.

Also, consider allowing mythos creatures or Outsiders to control the "boundries" between these places. Mortals can only enter when the "things" want them to.

>Some Outsiders take these places and make them their own, using them like safehouses to hide in.
Ok.

>>13949190
>Interesting. Would they be shifted by the same Sins?
To be determined
>Would they disappear from the world as soon as they drop from Q10?
Was thinking something like at 9 it becomes hard to find ore remember the place. At 8 it become hard to stay near the place. 7 the two effect intensify, etc. I don't think a place should completely shift out of reality before 5.

>MYTHOS
>LVL---Stat Max--- Max Mad/Per turn---Displacement
>1------- 5 ------------ 10/1 --------------------- 0
>2------- 5 ------------ 14/2 ----------------------0
>3 ------ 5 ------------ 18/3---------------------- 0
>4------- 5------------- 24/4---------------------- 0
>5------- 5------------- 30/5-------------------- 0
>6------- 6------------- 40/7-------------------- +1
>7------- 7------------- 50/9-------------------- +2
>8------- 8 ------------ 60/11------------------ +3
>9------- 9 ------------ 85/13------------------ +4
>10-----10 -----------100/15------------------ +5
In general, this seems ok. The only bit that I'm nor sure on is the Displacement increase. If displacement is the difference between Q and Mythos, and Mythos also grants a bonus, then it would grow very rapidly at high Mythos. Are people very against a rolled system, similar to Paradox?

>>13949324
>Are people very against a rolled system, similar to Paradox?
Personally I'm not opposed, tho a static system would seem to fit better. Displacement is supposed to be a constant pressure trying to throw you back out, not a backlash after you passed the braking point.

My computer ate my post for some reason. Sorry if this new one seems a bit brief.

>A possible system may be as follows: Madness itself would be hard to acquire, given how little you would regularly need to spend.
Ala vampire. Most powers should be free. Powerful ones cost 1M. Very powerful cost 2M+1W.

>I'm thinking that being within sensory range of someone who loses a point of morality would give 1 madness, being within sensory range of someone who gains a mild derangement would give 2, when someone gains a severe it would be 3,
Consider regaining Madness when Derangements are triggered. Actually gaining Derangements for anything other than morality loss is currently ST fiat.

Consider including a Mental Health mechanic.

> when you lose Quiescence it would be 4, when you get a mild derangement it would be 5, and when you get a severe derangement it would be 6. It could also probably be restored with ritual worship or sacrifice.
Can players willingly go mad to gain Madness?

>>13949535
That is a pretty old mechanic, we have been considering alternative methods.

>>13949535
>Starspawn- The madness spreads. The madness corrupts.
>Gain Madness by surrounding yourself with it.
Gain 1/2 Madness by spending an hour in the presence of someone suffering from a minor/major derangement? Perhaps limited to once per day, and only to those manifesting the derangement.

>Shepard of the Silver Key- Madness opens all gates. Gain Madness by acquiring knowledge of the Outer Gods (arguably the most dangerous route to gain it)
Storytellers would have to decide what counts as knowledge, which is ok. As this is harder/more dangerous than the other methods, bigger rewards needed. ST fiat, betwen 1 and 5. More Madness for more mind-breaking information.

>Young of the Thousand - The madness bears young. >Gain Madness by causing it in others.
This is essentially the system above.

>Scion of the Yellow Sign - Madness speaks. Madness tells me to do things.
>Gain Madness by indulging it.
Gain Madness when their own Derangements are triggered? It would assume that all Scions have at least one derangement.

>Courtier of the Black Pharaoh- Chaos. Chaos crawls. Chaos spreads. Chaos infects. Chaos swarms.
>Gain Madness by "Just as planned."
Hmm. A part of me is saying that players should write down what they plan to happen and don't show the ST. If their actions indirectly cause these events to occur, they gain 1+ point of Madness, with more Madness for more outlandish scheme. However, this would be pretty easy to abuse, and is just a bit weird.

>Sacrificing Displacement new
>The Outsiders pierces the gate to draw on the essence of the beyond, but the universe takes notice. Take a temporary point of Displacement in exchange for 4 Madness. After 24 hours you loose the point. You can push this up to 10 displacement, but with disastrous consequences.
This seems ok. The amount of Madness gained may need tweaking, but that can come during playtesting.

>Sacrificing Humans and other living beings
>By sacrificing a living being the Outsider gains an amount of Madness equal to to the sacrifice's Willpower. An animal will have a lower will power, a broken minded cultist somewhat more, and and the ‘hero’ who faced you last night that much more.
This seems fine.

>A willing sacrifice gets a to be determined bonus.
Taking Madness as being rare, a +1M bonus may be enough.

Does raising a cult link to any of the Gods in particular?

>REJECTIONS AND RITUALS
Probably the most Crunch heavy section. Before I start, did people ever decide on a fixed set of guidelines for the Splat to follow?

Someone proposed the following in an earlier thread. Are they acceptable?
>Outsiders are strong, but not stronger than mages. They should win if they have the element of surprise, but lose if the mages are prepared
>Outsiders are unnatural. By their nature they are a blight and a pox on any location they inhabit, even if they are opposed to their own nature
>Outsiders can be versatile or focused but not both. Devotion to a specific sect can give a balance between the two, though is not required.
>Outsiders can not break out into mass open chaos. Not only will everyone quickly unify against them, but their own nature becomes more difficult to sustain in reality.
>Outsiders do not have Morals, but the must abide by the laws of their dimension that they inhabit. Failure to do so has consequences.
>Outsiders of higher Mythos cannot have lower quiescence for long periods of time. You must hide your form or leave the dimension.

I've also seen them refered to as some kind of nega-mage, and called the "Power" splat.

>>13950226
>Does raising a cult link to any of the Gods in particular?
Any cult the player raises it would connect either to the god they originated from or themselves.

>>13950310
It pretty much summarizes everything we talked about.

>>13947722

Even with the fact that NY is Sin-Eater City, Delta Green did the Mythos in New York way better than we could with the Fate and the Keepers of the Faith. Best to start afresh.

>>13950226

>Does raising a cult link to any of the Gods in particular?

Nope, pretty much all of the Gods we've gone for are ones that inspire cults. Azathoth was initially going to take Nyarly's place, but we couldn't work out exactly what he did, and he's not much of a one for cults.

>>13950310

Those all seem pretty reasonable, yeah.

The first thing I've noticed when looking over the powers is that they have all been written in the Geist format. One ability which gains very minor upgrades per rank. I can't really start to do any crunch for them unless we sort out how they're being purchased.

So:
>Proposal 1: Discipline Like
>Upgrading Rejections seem appropriate.An Outsider will be able to buy powers from Schools associated with his Sect normally, with access to the rest at an increased cost. What I'm not sure about is if we should give the Schools themselves some method to exert power or to live them just as categories.
>(Most teminiscent of Vampire)
>>13936725
>Proposal 2:
>an alternative to upgrading the single Rejections would be to give them a one time cost to learn them (one dot) and have their power determined by dots in the School they belong to.
>So lets say you buy a new Hypergeometry Rejection at 6xp and since you have Hypergeometry at level 2 you have access to level 1 & 2 of that Rejections. Once you raise Hypergeomentry to 3 you unlock level 3 powers for all your known Rejections belonging to Hypergeomentry.
>(Somewhat reminiscent of Geist)

>Proposal 3:
>Break up the scaling Rejections and purchase each power individually.
>(Similar to Werewolf or Promethean)
>>13936733

>>13950805
I like the second one the most, tho some the powers as they are now might be overpowered for that system, but that can be addressed as we go.

>>13950854
None of the rejections have any real rules attached to them yet, so any system could work.

>>13950805

Another vote for Option 2 here, lovin' dat Geist.

How strong are rejections supposed to be again? Would using one just once be enough to cause something that a story might be written about? Are they the "Weird" that happens to people with something like "Weirdness Magnet?"

Are they a footnote or a plot detail?

If their A foot note, Discipline style might make sense. As I recall Vamps go through disciplines pretty easily. And they need them to be stronger to determine some sort of "Rank".

If they are a Plot detail, Try the second or Third option. Second if they are supposed to be Stronger from stronger entities. Third if they create fairly uniform results when used.

>>13951607

For a normal person, unexposed to the Supernatural, seeing even one Rejection being used would be enough to inspire tales of madness and woe. For a Vampire, it'd certainly be unpleasant, but not world-endingly so.

I guess I'd prefer Outsiders to have fewer more powerful Rejections than loads of low-level ones. That feels a little closer to the Cthulhu antagonist type, who then rounds out his abilities with magical spells, than a jack-of-all-trades type like a Mage or something.

So the current opinions seem to lean towards the second option. I'll get to reviewing.

Something else we need to decide on is the dice rolls for power. Vanilla is [Attribute]+[Skill]+[Power Ranking]

>[Alienist Alliance]
>Cost: 2M per rank
Very high. 1M per rank at most. Probably 1M total.
>As a priest of your god or a leader of the rebellion, you have many allies on many worlds. Channel the wisdom of another outsider to assist you in your quests.
Just outsiders or any mythos creature? Time of connection determined by roll results.
>Ranks: (•) Speak to a random friendly outsider on earth,
This is very very unlikely to be useful. Also, very long range. Perhaps speak to a random Outsider within a certain radius.
>(••) Speak to a specific friendly outsider on earth or a random friendly outsider from another world,
Talk to a specific mythos creature within a certain radius. Can specify type of creature, name, closest creature, etc
>(•••) Speak to a specific friendly outsider from another world,
Removes range limitations. Allow communication with other world. (Consider a seperate power.)
>(••••) Temporarily call a specific friendly outsider to your location,
This could overlap with Summoning rituals.
>(•••••) Make a request to speak to an avatar of your god or an opposing god if a rebel.
Ok.

>>13951968
>[Minor/Major form of the Avatar] (needs balancing)
>Cost: 3M (Rank 1-2), 5M (Rank 3), 8M (Rank 4-5)
Too high. Consider 1M+1W (Rank1-2), 2M+1W (Rank 3), 3M+1W (Rank 4-5)
>Receive a gift of power from your other worldly gods that you might serve their will. You gain a gift to better help you serve them. All effects last the duration of the scene. Choose one of the following PER RANK:
No roll, or roll successes can be divided between bonuses.

>-Rejections other than this one cost one less madness
Powerful
>-Your physical form causes sanity loss if looked at directly
>-You gain a extra die on Quiescence rolls.
>-Treat your Mythos as one higher for the purposes of rejections
>-Gain a +1 bonus to two stats of your choice (can increase beyond max)
I'm not sure about this one. It's several disparate bonuses, but they all make sense. Perhaps the user rolls and then divides successess between bonuses. The bonuses she can access increase by rank.

>[Ancient Knowledge]
>Cost: 1M per rank
0M. Requires a roll.
>In the minds of the gods, all languages are still very much alive and well. Borrow some of that forgotten knowledge that you might gain better insight into their nature or to seek greater power. Gain insight into reading or speaking a long dead language temporarily.
There is precedent for this, but our unusual pricing complicates it a bit.

>Ranks: (•) Read a common language you don't know,
Read ALL common languages you don't know
>(••) read an ancient language [required for some rituals],
Read ALL dead languages.
>(•••) speak a common language you don't know,
Speak and understand 1 common language per success.
>(••••) speak an ancient human language [required for some rituals],
Extends the previous level to dead languages.
>(•••••) speak an alien language [required for some rituals]
Extends the previous level to supernatural languages.

This raises the question of languages. Should this be the only way to access supernatural tounges? Should outsiders be able to learn supernatural languages via merits?

>>13951990
>No greentext where text should be green.
Makes as much sense as anything else.

>[Dark Whispers] (this an Alienist Alliance seem a bit too similar, consider changing or unifying)
They do fill very similar niches. There are some slight differences.
>Cost: 1M per 4 targets
No cost.
>Speak to an individual telepathically at a distance. >Distance between individuals and length of conversation, as well as whether or not the can respond vary with ranks.
Message ANY creature, not just mythos.
>Ranks: (•) Send a brief message to a target nearby,
Would nearby be on the order of yards or miles? Sensory might work best.
>(••) Send a brief message to a target anywhere on the same world,
Need to know name or face.
>(•••) Converse freely with a nearby target and they may respond,
Ok.
(••••) Converse freely with a target anywhere on the same world and they may respond,
Ok.
(•••••) Converse freely with a target on another world or dimension.
Ok, but we need to flesh out other worlds.

>[The Tapestry]NEW
>Cost: 1-2:none 3-4: 1M 5: 3M
>You see even with your eyesight impaired or blocked, by sensing the tapestry of reality. 5m radius per point of Mythos.
World of Darkness works in yards. Also, successes can add to this.
>(•) You see as if your senses were not impaired and in greater detail.
Either make this similar to Auspex 1 or actually add perception bonuses. Perhaps the character can use this Rejection dice pool instead of their perception pool.
>(••)Your sense extends beyond any obstacles and you might perceive what is hidden behind walls or other objects.
This is a 5 dot power for other splats.
>(•••) [Aura Perception] like a vampire
This is a two dot power for others. Function as vampire.
>(••••) See through supernatural concealment.
Summer changelings have something similar at this level. I'll need to dig out my book.
>(•••••) You know exactly what is real and what is not. Immune to mental influences for the duration of a scene.
Consider rolling into the previous power.

So, rearranging these and rolling them together.

Rank 1: Sight is enhanced (Perception bonus)
Rank 2: Aura sight
Rank 3: Immune to mundane stealth. (?)
Rank 4: Resistant to any supernatural attempt to influence their perceptions, including illusions and stealth. (Probably not fully immune to everything)
Rank 5: X-ray vision.

>[Mingling of Essence]
>Cost: 1M per dot of the Rejection+the cost of the Rejection itself
This is a powerful ability. Perhaps it could add a +1W surcharge to the stolen ability.

>If you are in physical contact with an other Outsider you may use one of the rejections it knows as if it were your own. You may only use a Rejection of a level equal or inferior to your level of Communion.
Potentially very powerful. Limiting it to touch reduces it somewhat. Playtesting it best.

>>13952180
>World of Darkness works in yards.
>yard = 0.9144 metre
not that much of a difference

Mmmm, back on Home City, I've never been in Baltimore, but I do agree it needs to be East Coast.

Is D.C. too government for this sort of thing to happen?

I'd say Vegas, but I think Las Vegas would be the Home City for the nWoD version of Demon, if it were ever made. City of Sin and all that.

>[Blood Bond]
>Cost: 1M/target/level
1M per target should work.
>Duration: 5 minutes
per success. Or one scene.

>The Outsider inflicts a minor wound on itself such that it begins to bleed. The blood then forms a tether between the target(s) and the Outsider. (needs appropriate resistance rolls for unwilling targets)
The outsider need to wound both himself and the target.
>(•) The outsider may ignore Bashing damage by spreading it to the individuals he is bonded to. He can do this a number of times equal to his Mythos per target.
Total points transfered up to Mythos.

>(••)For the duration of the ability, whenever a bonded target or the Outsider would make a save, instead, each of the bonded makes a save and the highest roll may be used.
Saves don't exist in nWoD.

>(•••) As the one dot power, but the outsider can downgrade Lethal damage to Bashing or ignore it if he wishes the target to suffer the full effects.
Perhaps pay 1M per attack transfered.

>(••••) As the three dot power but you can downgrade aggravated damage.
Probably 5 dot. Definitely requires a cost per wound transfered.

>(•••••) You embody all the best qualities of those bonded to you. Each of your rolls uses the highest stats of those who are bonded to you, but render them unable to act.
Try "can use their stats up to Mythos times."

>>13952286
Indeed. It's just a matter of convention.

Anyway, I had best be off. I doubt this thread will be up in 12+ hours, but the next Outsider thread I see I'll continue with the other Rejections.

>>13952318
>D.C.
Hmm, D.C. would probably be a battleground for all factions vying for control of humans. Or considered neutral.

>>13952318
I agree with the Baltimore camp. One of the biggest reasons being that it's a port city, making it easy for the eldrich beings that favor the depths to play a part in things.

>this thing is still up here

Damn, that's a lot of mechanics to read through.

Shaping up to be a kickass game, nontheless

>>13956094
This pic gave me an Idea.
What about Honolulu as the city for Outsiders?
-Near water (duh)
-Droves of strange men can pass through without anyone caring
-Can be used as a staging ground for the exploration of Mu.
-It should not be that hard to imagine tribes of cannibals on hidden islands that worship dark gods.
-It's still in the US

>>13957546
It's not New England though. Lovecraft always had a thing for New England. (It's the new world where the darkest secrets of the old world fled to long ago.)

The only major places of activity outside of New England in his stories were England itself, Antarctica, Australia, R'lyei (South Pacific), and a little bit of the Southern US

>>13957546
I just had a mental image of a lovecraftian horror in a Hawaiian T-Shirt. And somehow this made it even more horrifying.

>>13957546
An other thing in favor of this would be the size.
Not too big not to be able to be an Outsider stronghold while still enough to retain a major metropolitan feel.
The main gateway to a lost continent would also explain why so many outsiders are there in the first place, and is also extremely well defendable (at least from the see) from other supernaturals due to deals struck with the Deep Ones.

Now I'm torn between Bawltimoah and Honolulu.

Baltimore's got that run-down, decaying feel, but Honolulu makes so much sense, as well as providing a nice dissonance between the image most people have of sun, sea and sand, and the horrifying creatures that do deals in the dark alleys.

>>13958894
I feel like Honolulu would be a very awesome place to have as a side splat later on, but I don't think it really captures the lovecraftian feel. Other places that might need a mention in later splats: New York City; Cairo, Egypt; Dubai (probably where Abdul Alhazred originates from and the Nameless City), Tibet (and the Leng Plateau), and the research station in Antarctica

>>13960177
>Dubai (probably where Abdul Alhazred originates from and the Nameless City)
I might be wrong, but I seem to recall both were from Iran.

>>13960262
I believe you're correct, but I think we're looking for modernized cities for the setting anyways and Dubai is probably the closest one. (It's right across the Persian Gulf from Iran).

>>13960332
Don't know, I'm kind of partial to this guy being a resurrected Abdul.
(Yay for politca incorrectness!)

Sorry I'm late.

>[Psychic Duress]
>Cost: 2M per rank
>You psychically assault an enemy's mind, dealing damage even to the strong willed and crippling the weak willed. Deals damage to a foe within sight range.
I don't like this at all. Ranged damage as a one dot power? Normally ranged Bashing is 3 dot, ranged Lethal at 4 and ranged Aggravated at 5. The first two ranks could be some way of dealing phantom damage, then it might be some form of balanced.

>Ranks: (•) Dice pool is only Intelligence deal Bashing damage,
>(••) Dice pool is Intelligence + Presence,
>(•••) Extra successes have a 50% chance of stunning the target, deal Lethal damage
>(••••) Dice pool is Intelligence + Presence + Manipulation, deal Aggravated damage
>(•••••) More than two successes gives a 50% chance of knocking unconscious

>>13960480
Perhaps the ability should be on physical contact initially and only have range at higher ranks.

Phantom damage is a good idea too though.

>[Warped Psyche]
>You induce fear, rage, or even insanity in others with only the slightest focus of your alien mind. Turn a foe into an impotent coward or into a blinded indiscriminate murderer.
As madness is quite a big part of the mythos, it's probably a good idea to have multiple ways of dealing with it.

>The effects last as long as you maintain focus on the target and for 2 minutes thereafter.
Time could be linked to successes.

>Can only target non-outsiders.
This is ok, but remember that Outsiders will naturally be more resistant to supernatural powers (all supers get extra resistance)

>Ranks: (•) Foe has a 25% chance to cower instead of act during their turn so long as they can see you,
> (••) Foe has a 50% chance to cower instead of act, >(•••) Foe cannot act so long as you are within sight,
Addressing these together, I can see parallels between this and Nightmare. Consider rank 1 inflicting penalties. Rank 2 renders them unable to act and Rank 3 sends them fleeing or unable to act for long periods of time.

>(••••) Foe flies into a blind rage, attacking the nearest target each turn regardless of friendliness, >(•••••) Foe is enraged, but also deluded into believing you are an ally and will not attack you
Promethean has a three-dot power Atavistic Instincts which allows them to drive a single target into a killing rage against a chosen target for the rest of the scene. I can see the 5 dot power being 4 dot. Anyone have any ideas for a new 5 dot power?

>>13960827
>Anyone have any ideas for a new 5 dot power?

>Target doesn't care about about his own safety and will protect you with it's life for as long as the effect lasts.
?

Delta Green would hunt the outsiders.

>[Shifted Loyalties]
>Cost: 3M + 1M per minute to sustain
Too expensive. Low levels can be free. Highest levels cost 1M.
>You have the power to hypnotize mortals or command weaker outsiders.
I'll use Dominate and Majesty as a base. Looking at the powers, it seems more similar to Majesty.
>Roll Wits + Occult against your target's Resolve + Occult to determine success.
Dice rolls can be dealt with a bit later. If no-one objects, I'll probably go with Mythos+School+(Stat), with a different stat for each power.
>Ranks: (•) A single mortal views you as friendly,
Ok.
>(••) A single mortal will act on a simple suggestion or an outsider will view you as friendly,
Ok. I'm not sure about Outsiders being that much harder to manipulate, as they will get natural resistance.
>(•••) A single mortal will serve you in any way you command or an outsider will act on a simple suggestion,
If you literally mean "any way", such as suicide or killing their children, with no resistance that's a five dot power. Also, is this control obvious mind control, or is it manipulating their emotions?
>(••••) a small group of mortals will view you as friendly or an outsider will serve you in any way you command,
This sounds like Awe, a one dot power. If it allowed you to make a group think you were a god, then maybe.
>(•••••) A group of mortals will act on a simple suggestion or a group of outsiders will view you as friendly.

bump

>>13960975

Definitely. It'd be silly for us to try and write them in properly though, since they've been written up so well in Delta Green.

Maybe just a brief mention of how the higher echelons of both DG and TF:V are aware of each other, but generally stay out of each others' way. DG doesn't trust Task Force: Valkyrie since they suspect TF:V are involved with MAJESTIC. TF:V doesn't trust DG because DG's an illegal conspiracy that tends to show up, shoot people and burn buildings. They do have a begrudging respect though, since both sides have to admit the other get the job done. MAJESTIC's wilfully ignorant, as always.

Well, my internet has been less than perfect tonight, so I've been gone for some time. Anway:

>DREAMSCAPE
Before fleshing out Dreamscape we need to clarify:
What is the Dreamscape?
How good are Outsiders at manipulating it?
How does it interact with other supernaturals abilities?

Changelings and Mages already have strong connections to dreams. While it's best to avoid just copying their rules with no alterations, it might help to read the dreams sections of Changling: The Lost, Dancers in the Dusk, Mage: The Awakening and Astral Realms. If people want, I'm happy to fish out my books.

>>13963787
long story short the Dreamlands are a dimension where one can go when sleeping, the stronger the dreamer the more he can influence the world around him by mere thought. It's where a common mortal can be as powerful as an Outsider.
>To reach the Dreamlands, a sleeper must find an unusual stairway in a conventional dream and walk down the Seventy Steps of Light Slumber to face the judgment of powerful gatekeepers named Nasht and Kaman-Tha. If judged worthy (that is, able to survive the dangers of the Dreamlands), the dreamer is allowed to descend the Seven Hundred Steps of Deeper Slumber and emerges in the Enchanted Wood.

Frankly I'd heavily imply that the Seventy Steps of Light Slumber are in the Hedge, while Seven Hundred Steps of Deeper Slumber are the way to Arcadia. With the ST making the final decision if it is true or not.

>>13963787
>How good are Outsiders at manipulating it?
The Dreamlands are the outskirts of reality, so while there Outsiders wouldn't suffer from the usual penalties associated with Quiescence and Displacement.
As for the School of Dremscape, it should be about manipulating an individual through his astral body or making nightmares real and such.

>[4th Dimensional Shift]
>Cost: 3M/10min
Too expensive.

>The universe is made up of many more dimensions than the three that the human mind can perceive.
The contract of Seperation is the Changeling take on this concept.

>(•) You see into the higher dimensions, allowing you to perceive the invisible.
If Auspex is fair precedent, allowing a contested roll against the invisible is fair for a first dot power, but I would recommend that it's not very likely to work. Make the main bulk of this power the ability to see entities in Twilight or something similar.

>(••) Synchronize the spin of your atoms in such a way that you may pass through solid matter as though it were little thicker than water.
Changelings have something like this at 3 dots. It would be ok as a three dot power if the Outsider has to activate it every time they try to pass through an object, I suppose. Also, remove the "spin" fluff in favour of dimensional shifting.

>(•••) The Outsider shifts his physical body into a higher dimension, becoming virtually invisible but rendering him unable to interact with normal matter. All that remains visible to the eye is a small Hyper-dimensional shadow floating in the air, that is very hard to notice and wouldn't even register on the average mind.
Imperfect invisibility is just about acceptable for 3 dots, but this also allows you to pass through all barriers and makes you immune to attacks, which is 5 dots for changelings. Perhaps this could be split into two parts. The first part shifts the character partially, making him invisible and allowing him to act, but he's still detectable by his "shadow" and it breaks if he makes any large actions, such as violence. The second part would be 4 dots and allow him to be fully ghostlike, walking through walls and such"

>>13964097

>(••••) By passing a Mythos+Intelligence check the Outsider May interact with an object for a number of round equal to his successes.
If we go with my above suggestion, this level could be rolled into the level 5 ability.

>(•••••) For the duration of the Rejection the Outsider may shift in and out of regular space at will.
Maybe rank 4.

>[Noneuclidean Geometry] WIP
>Cost:2M/min
Again, far too expensive.

>Angles no longer work the way they should.
The powers seem to be more based on distance manipulation.

>(•)Weapons that deal bashing damage deal lethal and weapons that deal lethal damage deal bashing. You can target a number of weapons equal to your Mythos.
Interesting. I'm not really sure how to rank this. 1 or 2 seems fine. I suppose it does make you bulletproof, so maybe rank 2.

>(••) You can make an enclosed space bigger or smaller than it appears on the outside. (ex.: make more space within your clothes for a particularly troublesome mutation)
Again, I'm not sure how to rank this. Perhaps the character can enlarge an area by a factor of 2^successes. The exact factor would need to be decided based on how strong we want this.

>(•••)[Angular Realignment] or [Visual Disjunction] from the old Rejections (unsure as to which one is the more appropriate)
Both of those powers are a method of enhanced defense. Making you immune to damage is far above this level. The simplest this could be was subtracting from enemy attack pools. More complicated/powerful would be allowing the outsider to spend M to avoid attacks entirely.

>(••••) Your ability to modify space space is no longer restricted to enclosed spaces, you can reach for an object across a room as if it were next to you, when applied to combat you can affect your exact position as well as your opponent's granting you a massive bonus to defense and an equal penalty to your opponent's. Opponents count as always being in close or hand to hand range for the purposes of your attacks. You can target a number of opponents equal to your Intelligence (need someone to rule on the appropriate values for the bonuses)
This can easily get very complicated very fast. What do people think about saying the Outsider counts as being "spread" over the area within X times Mythos yards from him, but cannot penetrate solid objects. So he could pick up a cup that was 10 yards away from him as if he was next to it or stab a guy from across the room. If someone shot at you, you can choose to count as being 10 yards further away for the purposes of range.

> (•••••) need an idea for the Lvl 5 power, needs to be defensive or reactive to keep with the theme of the other powers.
I would propose simple teleportation, but that doesn't quite fit in with the rest of the powers.

>>13964446
>This can easily get very complicated very fast. What do people think about saying the Outsider counts as being "spread" over the area within X times Mythos yards from him, but cannot penetrate solid objects. So he could pick up a cup that was 10 yards away from him as if he was next to it or stab a guy from across the room. If someone shot at you, you can choose to count as being 10 yards further away for the purposes of range.

I like this, retains the feel of what the power was going for without being overcomplicated.

>>13964441
This is me. I forgot my trip.

>[Dimensional Splice] WIP

Looking at the second clause, this seems to have something in common with the Contract of the Forge. However, Forge only allows very very trvial reworkings and reality molestation seems like something Outsiders should excel at. Would I be wrong to allow Outsiders to do what Changelings can do for a lower cost?

>>13964616
>Would I be wrong to allow Outsiders to do what Changelings can do for a lower cost?
This sentence is worded so badly even I am offended.

Would I be wrong to allow Outsiders to warp reality more easily than Changelings are able to?

>>13964616
>seems like something Outsiders should excel at
True
>Would I be wrong to allow Outsiders to do what Changelings can do for a lower cost?
Not at all. Why try to reinvent the wheel?

Whew, all done.

Add flavor to taste.

ITT /tg/ makes another wildly unbalanced shitty homebrew that will never be completed because they're too scared to tailor books to their own needs and too boring to tailor fluff to books.

>>13964667
>unbalanced shitty homebrew
Only if we fail to receive decent feed back.
>that will never be completed
Someone said this back in December when we first started this. I'm still having too much fun writing this stuff to stop at the moment.

>>13964667
Pic related contains Promethean, Hunter and Geist.

I don't see your point.

>>13964721
>2-3 months is a long time

>>13964744
My point is that you're trying to solidify to an almost superfluously restrictive level mechanics and themes covered much more efficiently, imaginitively, and diversely in Second Sight and Asylum.

All because none of you know how to run a game where you can't flip to a page that tells you how to run it, nor are you even trying.

You are turning a setting based in horror, chaos, elder things from beyond time and space, and the untenable presence of madness itself, into a single codified splat that would run into a wall of mutually exclusive mechanical repetition if it happened to be worth playing even once.

Use your imaginations, damn.

>>13964934
My dear anon, you sound like you've had some bad experiences with fan-gamelines. I think we all have. You don't need to assume that they will all have the same problems.

Also, as >>13964744 pointed out, Hunter, Geist and Promethean had already been covered. If you wanted to run a revenant game you could have done it easily before Geist came out. You could run a hunters game with nothing more than the core book. All supplements are there to offer advice on running the games. This project is exactly the same.

I think I'll be off. Advice given at twenty to three in the morning isn't the best advice.

bump through the night

>>13964934
>>13964667

I might just be responding to a troll that no longer exists, but it's a bump anyway.

Sure, you could run an Outsider game with Second Sight, but equally, you could run a Mage game with Second Sight. Clearly, Mage is a superfluous splat. You could run Outsider with Call of Cthulhu rules, hell you could run all of nWoD with Call of Cthulhu rules.
Pretty much everything you say could be applied to all of the World of Darkness books.

Also,

>using pre-published books is imaginative
>making a new setting is unimaginative