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  • File : 1297375789.jpg-(202 KB, 1200x798, Migtaunt.jpg)
    202 KB Firestorm Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:09 No.13853986  
    We're getting our asses kicked by Fishbeds, we can't get tone, our objective is getting away, the Saudis are headed inbound to fuck us all up, and one of our pilots just died in a massive fireball.

    I fucking love this game.

    Pic is GM having a laugh apparently.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:16 No.13854054
    I giggled like a little girl.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:18 No.13854081
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    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:20 No.13854102
    Wait, who died?
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:23 No.13854128
    Creek, he piled in on landing.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:24 No.13854142
    What are you guys flying that you're getting your asses kicked by MiG-21s? Or are they those MiG-21-97 Bison variants?
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:27 No.13854174
    F-16 Falcon

    No, this is a new one.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:29 No.13854202
    Lesson Learned: Don't let an enemy into a position where they can shoot you.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:30 No.13854213
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    >F-16 Falcon

    ...You're kidding me.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:32 No.13854234
    Ha, nice.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/10/11(Thu)17:33 No.13854241
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    Never underestimate the AK-47 of the skies.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:36 No.13854277
    For all its faults, it took a long time for the west to match the -21s turning performance.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:39 No.13854301
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    Nope. The Mig-21 got lucky and nailed our flight lead who was flying a Falcon... with its cannon. Scored a massive critical. The Falcon exploded and Ross "Suit" Cameron is DEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

    We just lost a 1116 creds plane to a 180 creds one.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:41 No.13854329
    Sad thing if we complete the mission we will break even on just the loss of the plane. We still have to repair the other planes.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:44 No.13854359
    This is now a Fishbed appreciation thread.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:44 No.13854360

    Ross here, I'm more pissed off that we lost the plane then actually dying.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/10/11(Thu)17:44 No.13854375
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    Yup, thats gotta hurt.
    >> Bravo Cadett 02/10/11(Thu)17:46 No.13854390
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    yeah russian flush xD
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:46 No.13854394
    Ahh, I should have figured a bad luck diceroll was involved.

    The Fishbed's a good fighter for its time (and the Bison variant is a good fighter for right the hell now; it's frightening), yeah. I always liked the rocket ship look. It's just that normally one would expect that the F-16 would have the big stick advantage on it. Were you guys not packing BVR missiles, or out of 'em?
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:48 No.13854407
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    >Ross here, I'm more pissed off that we lost the plane then actually dying.

    Before the mission: "Ok, if we all come home without too many damages, and if we get the monthly pay, we may be able to afford even up to TWO F-15C Eagles!"

    >mfw Suit dies
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:50 No.13854443

    Show me to account for the ideal situations.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:51 No.13854459
    The dicerolling has been atrocious, but we as pilots have made mistakes too. But damn, I am never going to underestimate the MiG-21 ever again, a single one has been running circles around Aquila, and now a flock of them have brought some big hurt to Musketeer. Even the old Fresco took some of the wind out of Griffon.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:53 No.13854483
    I'm giddy, I just got added to the Firestorm Mercs group.

    Maybe I'll get picked up soon, and I can get Piped to death!

    Fuck metal bawkses, metal pipes is where it's at.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:55 No.13854508
    Well, Sukhoi mentioned that even old airframes in competent hands can be dangerous.

    I'm just waiting for some ace to show up in an old Hawker Hunter or F-86.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:57 No.13854534
    Seriously, though: we should have acted in pairs, and stocked up on long-ranged missiles instead of going IR happy. It is better to use ammo, than to have it and not be able to use it the few times you manage to be in position.

    One of the problems this game has (besides Sukhoi not giving us the stats to a plane until we buy it for whatever reason), is that it is turn-based and does not account for pursuit. In real air combat, you try to get behind an enemy and follow it. Making it turn-based, though, means that we have to guess where the enemy is going to be, maneuver and hope we were right.

    It´s like two blind dudes fighting with knives.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)18:02 No.13854583
    >Making it turn-based, though, means that we have to guess where the enemy is going to be, maneuver and hope we were right.

    That's actually what dogfighting is, staying behind a jet is ridiculously hard, to get a shot you have to have an idea where the enemy is going to be. Anticipation, not reaction is key to winning.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)18:07 No.13854639
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    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)18:07 No.13854640
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    >Hawker Hunter

    >> Air Action Weekly 02/10/11(Thu)18:08 No.13854655
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    Crimson Skies used simultaneous movement as well, you'd write down the moves for all your panes in secret then everyone would reveal them.

    However if you got on someone's tail, you compared your "Sixth-Sense" skill versus their's. Depending on the difference, the player who owned that aircraft had to give you information on how that aircraft was gonna behave next turn. The bare minimum was informing the pursuer whether the plane was going to turn left, turn right or move straight. The most detailed was revealing what hex the plane would end its movement in (but not its facing, so there is still a chance to shake someone).

    Does Sukhoi's system have anything like that?
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)18:10 No.13854678
    Not at the moment, but it has worked both ways, we've ended up in tail happy positions for heater shots, but we keep missing them. I think the MiG-21 in Aquila actually overshot the bomber when doing a gun pass.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)18:16 No.13854747
    >That's actually what dogfighting is, staying behind a jet is ridiculously hard, to get a shot you have to have an idea where the enemy is going to be. Anticipation, not reaction is key to winning.

    There is "anticipation", and then there is "Ok, I am going to point my plane at my friends´ because the only possible guess I can make as to where the enemy is going, is them".

    In a real dogfight, jets or not, you have:
    - Starting position
    - Maneuvering
    - End position

    And normally, you should be able to more or less adjust yourself throughout all phases. Sukhoi´s rules do not account for the middle one, though, so again the only point of reference you can possibly have are your friends, because you have to assume the enemy will be going after them.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)19:28 No.13855494

    To be absolutely fair, it's more like four blind men fighting four other blind men with knives. Sure, you don't know where the other guys are going to be, but you can call out directions to your team-mates and try to box them in.

    It's been sort of working for Griffin... well, aside from failing our ACM checks constantly.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/10/11(Thu)19:30 No.13855525
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    >To be absolutely fair, it's more like four blind men fighting four other blind men with knives. Sure, you don't know where the other guys are going to be, but you can call out directions to your team-mates and try to box them in.

    I am now imagining eight dudes doing this, four of them shouting confusedly in English, four doing the same in Russian. Oh, and they're in full flight gear.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)19:45 No.13855684
    I'd like to get in on this. Are there openings anywhere?

    >allMa basketfuls
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)19:51 No.13855763
    ...link to the books?
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)19:59 No.13855853

    We're just sort of finishing the first missions for each of the flights, and two pilots have died already. So your chance of getting a spot in due to a rage-quit is not too shabby!

    That being said, there are already 4 or so other free pilots about. Although, this is a mercenary campaign too, maybe you might get signed on to fly one mission or the like. And you're always free to start up an RP-oriented account, like a bartender, reporter, plane mechanic, etc.


    I would say the rules are in really, really early alpha. One of the goals of Firestorm (along with the other P&M forum campaigns) is to stress-test various iterations of the rules and different custom rulesets, so there's no public release available yet, only the movement rules.

    That being said, the rulesets are all built off of either Air War C21 or Mercenary Air Squadron, possibly both. So if you'd like to get a custom game of your own started you can go from there.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)20:05 No.13855903

    I shall wait patiently. Thanks for the info.
    >> 'Ranga' Davidson 02/10/11(Thu)20:10 No.13855947

    Not true, V.3 included basic combat and landing rules as well. All it's really missing is the logistical side-


    We're probably gonna shift to that from MAS, seeing as how my Flogger bit the dust and the Fishbed got it's arse handed to it by AAA. That system is.... it works, but it's not suited for the RPing like what Steve and now sukhoi brought to the table. AirWar Custom21 is where it's at.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/10/11(Thu)20:28 No.13856107
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    Yeah, its not as suited for roleplay, but I'm still working on some changes to it for myself. I find it a rather enjoyable, simplistic game to play.

    Dunno why I like it, given the problems I have with it, but I have fun, so I want to try to smooth out those kinks.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)20:52 No.13856329
    Holy shit, PLanes and mercs!
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)21:13 No.13856578
    I'm just waiting for someone to take a Genie on mission... cause nothing say's warcrimes like breaking all WMD restrictions.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)21:15 No.13856609

    Likely a loooong ways away. Although Aquila managed to scrape enough credits together at the start to buy a fully crewed Badger bomber. And they haven't lost it. Yet.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)21:19 No.13856681

    Also, to be absolutely fair to Musketeer, who are piloting F-16s, the intel was pretty bad. The mission was for them to divert a gun-running cargo aircraft and force it to land.

    Unfortunately intel didn't have their exact location, which meant Musketeer had to go out and individually investigate every radar blip in the surrounding area without scaring the crap out of the legitimate passenger airlines flying in the region.

    What intel didn't mention at all was the fact that the cargo plane had an escort of 4 MiG 21s, hiding in the shadow of the civilian airliner traffic... the next thing you know there are 8 fighters dogfighting it out in the skies above a busy air-lane into Saudi Arabia, with the sky literally thick with passenger jets and cargo aircraft. Too hard or too far a maneuver easily could result in a mid-air collision with a 747... not great for the merc, or for public relations...
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)21:20 No.13856694

    That sounds like magnificent bastardry of mission design.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)21:33 No.13856883
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    And it's only the first round of missions. All of them have had some vicious twists.

    Cloud cover forced Swart Katte to go much lower on their recon flight, and they ended up fighting with some AAA (also they ended up strafing a mosque, but we'll ignore that). Griffin was late on the takeoff and ended up out of position for their escort. And Aquila has come up against a MiG-21 ace that has run circles around the fighter escort for their Badger bomber.

    Pic related, it's Musketeer turn 1. All those green blips are unidentified aircraft - one of them is the target. Another is the escort flight, and the rest are all legitimate, innocent civilian airliners and cargo planes.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)21:44 No.13857028
    I would be on the radio with the Aquila Mig Ace offering him a job.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)21:59 No.13857205
    He has yet to actually shoot down a plane. Sure, he's directed all his attacks toward the bomber, and even put two missiles into it, killing two of the crew.

    All that has served to do is piss the Iraqi pilot off.
    >> ilialic gottingen 02/10/11(Thu)22:02 No.13857243

    Though he did get an assist with the Freedom Fighter... you know, .5 kill for the Fishbed, .5 for Terra firma
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)22:05 No.13857280
    Nah. He never touched the F-5. That was all on botching an ACM roll at 15,000 feet.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)22:14 No.13857389
    Indeed. Fucking dicelog have a measurable hatred towards the PC`s. I shit you not.
    >> 'Ranga' Davidson 02/10/11(Thu)22:44 No.13857705

    Speaking of which, can anyone suggest an alternative? Still right pissed off about getting fragged after dropping a grand total of one half-ton cluster bomb.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/10/11(Thu)22:50 No.13857773
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    If there is one thing I've discovered after 2+ years of playing RPGs online, its that dicebots thirst for the tears of players and savor their blood for dessert.

    You could try invisible castle? You can even look rolls up later for reference.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)22:58 No.13857857
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    To be fair, as bad as the Firestorm campaign has been to its pilots it's the third turn of the first mission in Tempest rising and of the four planes one is down (pilot ejecting safely) and the other severely damaged (pilot wounded).

    The mission is to blow up a small terrorist training camp, and I'll let you guess which two planes were armed for AtG work (pic related).
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:00 No.13857878

    3 out of 4 flights bought Combat Search and Rescue. Two of the flights that have lost pilots lost them instantly; ejection seat failed.

    The one flight that didn't buy CSAR was Aquila. They have had the singular first example of the ejection seat working as advertised. But they didn't buy CSAR, so the pilot is going to be marooned in the desert.

    Oh, the bitter irony...
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/10/11(Thu)23:03 No.13857915
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    Fishbeds for mud moving? What were the other two fighters?
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/10/11(Thu)23:04 No.13857931
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    Hah, best start walking.
    >> 'Ranga' Davidson 02/10/11(Thu)23:11 No.13858022

    Flogger-J on mud-moving, a ton of cluster bombs plus a half ton of regular iron.

    Fishbed-bis on SEAD, MAS doesn't dictate country of origin restrictions so it had Shrike spike-busters and Mavericks.

    We've got a Flogger and Tiger-II as well, both on top cover, no AtG ordinance aside from their guns.

    >recalled uracheri

    But Uracheri Flight was our CSAR support!
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:12 No.13858038
    That one is actually an Israeli/Romanian upgraded fishbed optimized for ground attack (hence the LanceR designation).

    The downed plane was a Mig-27. The air cover (which is just chilling with nothing to do at the moment) is a Mig-28 and Mig-23
    >> Meanwhile.... Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:29 No.13858229
    >"Attention all aircraft, this is Lieutenant, First Class, Ariz Nagoyah, of the Royal Saudi Air Force. You are engaged in unauthorized warfare over the Saudi Kingdom and are hereby ordered to cease all hostilities. Failure to comply will be seen as a an act of aggression against the Kingdom and will be met with deadly force."

    >"This is Musketeer 4 to Lieutenant First Class Ariz Nagoyah. As an authorized operative of the legitimate Yemeni government operating over international waters in accordance with the United Nations Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism you have no jurisdiction over this operation. Furthermore under United Nations Security Council Resolution 1566 taking hostile action against us would be considered an act of aiding and abetting a terrorist organization. As long as you do not fire on our aircraft we will not engage you or travel over Saudi Airspace. Copy."

    "Is that resolution stuff real or just some bullshit, Crutches?"
    "It's true in as much as there is actually a United Nations and I hear they're not too keen on terrorism."
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:35 No.13858306
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    Pic is Fossil's Grandpa in WW2.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:36 No.13858323
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    Yeah, that sounds nothing like a Saudi name. :/
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:36 No.13858325

    Air-conditioned cockpit, nice.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:45 No.13858418
    The Saudis have a proud tradition of employing other people to work for them. They are, generally, some of the laziest assholes on earth. Their entire Air Traffic Control is run by expat Canadians and Americans.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:46 No.13858436

    Yeah, but the pilots themselves are generally Saudis. And besides, where would someone called Ariz Nagoyah come from?
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:49 No.13858473
    Yep. That's properly "STAY ON TARGET" enough.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:49 No.13858481
    I think he's an expat with a fake name.

    Like those indian guys on tech support calls who try to convince you their name is brian.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:50 No.13858482
    Son of an expat Japanese American?
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:52 No.13858499

    Well...couldn't he have chosen an Arabic sounding name then?
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:54 No.13858522
    allah was taken
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)23:56 No.13858550
    And now Crutches has avenged Suit, and blown that IL-76 out of the sky.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:09 No.13858686
    It was filled with Pregnant Orphans with Cancer flying to Disneyland on a Make a Wish flight.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:13 No.13858729
    So, you guys can't even win vs metal pipes?
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:15 No.13858757

    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:17 No.13858773
    See OPs pic. The current tally is:

    Metal Pipes: 1000
    Musketeer: 360
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:21 No.13858810
    Meh. Quality of planes doesn't help when your players don't know what they're doing, while the DM designed the system and isn't playing easy.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:21 No.13858813
    Yeah but that's with a 3:1 kdr
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:23 No.13858850
    And then he capped it off with the most appropriate quoting of a flight's motto I've ever seen.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:26 No.13858891
    The DM is using the same rules the players are.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:30 No.13858931
    If we're brutally honest, we've made some colossal fuckups.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:33 No.13858957
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    What's going to happen when you guys go up against a credible fighter?
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:35 No.13858980
    Sukhoi will tears us a new one.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:36 No.13859000
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    True, but the players don't have all the rules.

    And the GM has actual military experience whereas the players, mostly, do not
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:39 No.13859042
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    Hey, at least you get a chance to yell "Mary Sue DMPC" on that one.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:55 No.13859212
    The Fulcrum kind of is a Mary Sue.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:57 No.13859237
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    Mary Sue.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)00:59 No.13859265
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    Power leveling hack.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)01:02 No.13859300
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    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)01:04 No.13859324
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    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)01:05 No.13859332
    Ah yes, the F-16E Block 60.

    I'm hoping this thing makes it into the game so I can get one.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)01:15 No.13859444
    All I want for Christmas is a Mig-21 Bison.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)01:44 No.13859798

    Mostly this, but again much of the stuff that has gone haywire has mainly been bad or unknown intel.

    It's not like there is a nice SEAD pass before the mercs fly on in, or an AWACs to do spotting (although with enough cash it's a possibility to hire those assets). The DM in these situations has the advantage of concealed forces and the like.

    Partly too it's just unfamiliarity with the system and adjusting to the sort of gambles you can make; it's rather lethal but there are ways of mitigating risk if you're smart. Some things don't look that bad on paper until it actually happens, like losing a number of height bands (very surprising how quickly you can run out of altitude).
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)01:45 No.13859808
    That photo is great.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)01:50 No.13859856

    Actually, SEAD, CAP, AWACS, AAR and CSAR are all options for purchase, plus one group gets RSA Reccondos for an anti-AA raid. So there are support options, but they aren't cheap.

    Thing is, everyone is low on funds- only Swart has a lot of liquidity because they bought cheap airframes, plus got a nice payout for their recon run. Griffon should be alright after they repair the F1, but Musketeer and Aquilla are hurting.
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)03:25 No.13860729
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    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)03:43 No.13860834
    Are there still any open slots in the game? Or at least applications for a waiting list?
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)03:48 No.13860872
    Actually, yes. The DM's said that after all the first missions are done she'll open up the campaign for 5 to 6 person flights, which means the current ones will have room for new recruits.

    And there's always room for RP characters at the Voodoo Lounge.

    Details for joining are here:
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)04:11 No.13861006

    Do I just write up my bio and post it into the collected dossier thread or do I PM it to Sukhoi or what?
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)04:21 No.13861064

    Actually, you have to do what is posted here:


    Follow the steps.
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)04:22 No.13861067
    You should do both.

    After that it's a matter of getting into a flight. You can try to join an existing one, or form a new one with some of the other individual players.

    Be warned though, this game is unforgiving to all players. Well, to be specific, the dicelog is appears to have a sadistic streak, as you may have gathered from this thread.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)04:46 No.13861164

    What ruleset is Firestorm using, Airwar C21 or MAS?
    >> Hendrik de Jager 02/11/11(Fri)05:23 No.13861370


    It takes most of the rules from C21, some of the economics from MAS, but it's pretty heavily modified all over from what I've seen. She's gone pretty out of the way to keep it simple while giving enough options to make it a proper fighter pilot game.
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)05:28 No.13861396
    A homebrewed modified version of Air War.

    The rules haven't completely been released yet, and the the GM is still doing fine-tuning, but you can download the draft from here:

    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)05:36 No.13861445

    I imagine after this stress playtest, as well as the Tempest Rising campaign that's running concurrently with a more conventional set-up, we'll also have something closer to a proper full ruleset, so people can go off and start up their own Planes & Mercs campaigns, either over IRC, Maptools, using the forum, whatever.

    At present there's no chatroom save for the shoutbox, although some suggestions have been tossed around for an IRC channel.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)05:40 No.13861471

    Also, there is the possibility of applying to start your own playtest campaign and get a sub-forum for it, so if you're interested in DMing or running a game, there's that option also.

    Some homebrewing is definitely going to be required though; there's no single definitive "Planes & Mercs" ruleset yet - the different GMs are all playtesting various angles at the moment. Even if you're not interested in playing or GMing but have some homebrew ideas, feel free to sign up and drop by the forum.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)05:42 No.13861484
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    Or heck, if you just want to talk about planes, you're welcome to join too. There's a whole sub-board for it.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)06:05 No.13861595

    Reading through it now.

    Real easy to pick up and play but plenty of options to work with. I like it.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)09:18 No.13862732
         File1297433922.jpg-(14 KB, 350x240, 156791 EA-7L ddMAR95 PMTC-86 V(...).jpg)
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    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)10:31 No.13863164
         File1297438274.jpg-(242 KB, 1025x695, 0903171.jpg)
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    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)10:39 No.13863231
    Is that a SU-7?
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)10:43 No.13863258
         File1297439001.jpg-(23 KB, 600x400, Lightning F.6.jpg)
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    It's an English Electric Lightning.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)10:47 No.13863304
    The Potbellied defender of the Free world.
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)10:48 No.13863310
         File1297439288.jpg-(277 KB, 950x712, su7bm_kp.jpg)
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    To compare...
    >> Hendrik de Jager 02/11/11(Fri)11:05 No.13863440

    Pffft, one engine? Good luck breaking the sound barrier going vertical. Oh wait....

    In other news, spending 200 credits for an Impala for ECM, LGB, and general dickery. Y/N? For reference, a Skyhawk base is the same cost, but can't use that gear, while the version that can (Skyhawk S) is twice the cost.
    >> Bonnie 02/11/11(Fri)11:06 No.13863447
         File1297440361.png-(78 KB, 704x242, Stewarts_Draken01a.png)
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    Bonnie here

    Sup folkles.
    >> girder aka "Beady" 02/11/11(Fri)11:12 No.13863492
         File1297440733.png-(85 KB, 704x242, BaseMirageF1_01ba_BDsPlane01.png)
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    Hey Bonnie.

    Nothing much.
    >> 'Ranga' Davidson 02/11/11(Fri)11:15 No.13863515
         File1297440936.jpg-(114 KB, 1353x524, mig27ranga.jpg)
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    She worked so well, right up until that 20mm HEAP detonated in the reheat chamber.

    Feels bad, man.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)11:18 No.13863538
         File1297441123.jpg-(134 KB, 600x452, trololol.jpg)
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    >see dat dropbear
    >> Bonnie 02/11/11(Fri)11:19 No.13863542

    I bet ya'll wishing you had a sleak, sexy Draaken right now.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)11:22 No.13863569
         File1297441373.jpg-(44 KB, 600x450, drakenfin.jpg)
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    Sleek, sexy and most of all affordable Draken.
    >> Bonnie 02/11/11(Fri)11:26 No.13863595

    The best thing about it is that i can get myself an upgraded that was designed but not used, which pretty much would allow it to compete evenly with more modern aircraft, like the F-16 for example.
    >> снайпер 02/11/11(Fri)12:06 No.13863881
         File1297443980.jpg-(560 KB, 1920x1200, 1292577505379.jpg)
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    speaking of which - I'm surprised more people aren't flying planes like the F-16.

    I'm guessing the plane is simply extremely expensive by comparison to everything else you can fly.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)12:12 No.13863925
    dat saab
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)12:17 No.13863959
         File1297444622.jpg-(43 KB, 800x578, Glory_of_flight.jpg)
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    It's expensive AND only one of the starting PMCs allow you to purchase one off the bat: Eagle Corp.

    It's a tech level 6 plane, and most of the PMCs only allow for level 5. The only other PMC that does that is limited to Russian and 'Other' (non-American, non-European) air tech.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)12:17 No.13863960
         File1297444622.jpg-(562 KB, 1280x720, 1294071152519.jpg)
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    aircraft wallpaper thread?
    >> снайпер 02/11/11(Fri)12:18 No.13863968
         File1297444710.jpg-(148 KB, 800x600, 1292924576713.jpg)
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    Shame. It's probably my favouritestest plane of all time ever since I was a kid.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)12:19 No.13863969
    i, for one, am ok with firestorm being time-frozen in the 80s

    golden age of jets and whatnot
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)12:24 No.13864012
         File1297445097.jpg-(245 KB, 1152x780, 1832617.jpg)
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    Ah, yes...the HESA Saeqeh.

    The one non-European, non-American, non-Russian, non-Chinese plane that we know nothing about.

    Besides the fact that it looks like a v-tailed F-5.

    ...not as cool as the JF-17.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)12:26 No.13864020
         File1297445214.jpg-(73 KB, 619x600, 619px-SlouUltra.jpg)
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    Wait. What is this game?
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)12:28 No.13864041
         File1297445314.jpg-(183 KB, 1024x768, 4chan Planes and Mercs.jpg)
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    Planes and Mercs.

    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)12:30 No.13864062
         File1297445456.jpg-(170 KB, 1024x754, Firstorm_lo.jpg)
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    To be more specific, we're talking about the Firestorm Campaign, which is a forum-based offshoot inspired by the original Planes and Mercs campaign.

    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)12:33 No.13864076
         File1297445605.gif-(260 KB, 749x574, x32_1.gif)
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    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)12:38 No.13864124
    ...the hell is that?
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)12:38 No.13864127
         File1297445934.jpg-(47 KB, 640x480, snapshot20100416163231.jpg)
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    As a big Tiger Fan. I can't decide how I feel about that tail.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)12:40 No.13864145

    except in the pic she's in a bit of a state of undress
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)12:44 No.13864173
         File1297446282.png-(381 KB, 960x720, F-35_A_B_C_Config.png)
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    That can't be right. That thing's got a canard-delta configuration.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)12:51 No.13864233
    I know, it's some weird configuration. But look at the engine intakes, the tail, the cockpit/canopy shape . . . it's an f-35.

    Some kind of franken-35.
    And I mean, really, what other plane has that body shape and a fan behind the cockpit?
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)12:54 No.13864253
         File1297446883.jpg-(201 KB, 1024x768, 1568205.jpg)
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    See, I can tell that it's fictional, but the question is: Where is that picture from?
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)13:06 No.13864335
    Wait, I was wrong.

    Apparently it was a Lockheed prototype that pre-dated the JSF:
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)13:10 No.13864359
    What game are you guys playing there? No I am not trolling.
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)13:11 No.13864370

    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)13:15 No.13864398
         File1297448138.jpg-(49 KB, 640x480, snapshot20100711133234.jpg)
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    A few homebrews based on a series of poplar RPG campaign reports from last year.

    Basically the players are mercenary fighter pilots.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)13:16 No.13864404

    So H.A.W.X. on steroids as an RPG? Cool stuff.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)14:10 No.13864808
    Christ am I retarded or is all the info that pilots have on the planes that are available that model list with the costs and tech levels, and that's it?
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)14:20 No.13864904
    That's only the data that's available on the plane list.

    The other stats are so far only avilable on the mission runner:

    As was mentioned earlier, the materials are still a work in progress. The first edition of the rules hasn't been finalized, let alone the stat lists.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)14:21 No.13864918
    Until they actually buy the plane, yes. You can look up what they can do in real life, so you have a good idea on what they can do.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)14:32 No.13865018
    what is this, and can someone show me the orientation of the engines? that rear bit looks wack
    >> girder 02/11/11(Fri)14:39 No.13865080
         File1297453176.jpg-(23 KB, 500x375, Yak130_10.jpg)
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    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)14:59 No.13865275
    i hope i can buy one of these when i am wealthy
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)16:01 No.13865843
    Well, the written stats no, you can't see those. As a fighter pilot you should already know aircraft capability.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)16:05 No.13865891
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    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)16:06 No.13865911

    Well, to be fair some of us aren't as big of plane junkies as others, but still want to play the game eventually.

    So I thought maybe there'd be something a little more in-depth. No big deal.

    I still know my top personal picks from the list.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)16:09 No.13865938
    >Well, to be fair some of us aren't as big of plane junkies as others, but still want to play the game eventually.

    Not to discourage you, but wikipedia is a fantastic tool for getting a pretty good feel for what a particular aircraft would be like, and there is also the resource of everybody on that forum, several of whom in their day to day jobs work with fighter jets.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)16:12 No.13865961

    Oh I've been hitting up Wiki bigtime. Also been lurking there and trying to absorb all I can.

    Playing a game like this is like playing an infantry game with my buddy who was Army; if you aren't military, you feel intimidated, no matter how big of a fanboy you might be of the subject matter.

    It's intimidating gearing up to play with people who do this for a living, 'all in good fun' or not.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)16:12 No.13865962
    Speaking of P&M and F16's, I think I know the REAL reason to why very few players took Falcons.


    Because? Because he's in your base, jacking your Falcons.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)16:16 No.13865994
    What a beautiful picture. I can see the scraps of breakfast on the pilot's sleeve from it.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)16:23 No.13866054
         File1297459415.jpg-(33 KB, 640x480, snapshot20100416151350.jpg)
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    Yeah, this is part of the reason I'm tinkering with the much more simplistic/abstracted MAS system.

    Speaking of MAS, and to those few in the thread that might know the system... Adding in a rule to see if you can safely land a damaged plane after a mission; good idea or bad idea?
    >> SoloWing !KLDy0BUddY 02/11/11(Fri)16:27 No.13866094
         File1297459643.jpg-(155 KB, 685x1027, f15missingwing1li.jpg)
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    Even Crimson Skies has a rule for that, so why not.

    By the way, what do you have to roll to land a plane with a missing wing?
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)16:29 No.13866117
    >By the way, what do you have to roll to land a plane with a missing wing?

    Doesn´t matter, the dicelog will fuck you up. It demands sacrifices...
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)16:31 No.13866139
    rol nat 1 for land roll.
    exit atmosphere
    >> SoloWing !KLDy0BUddY 02/11/11(Fri)16:33 No.13866156
         File1297460008.jpg-(99 KB, 640x426, plane_in_tree34091219_std.7718(...).jpg)
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    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)16:36 No.13866191
         File1297460204.jpg-(198 KB, 1456x1153, AREA_88_VOL_01_CH_05_PG_04_5_c(...).jpg)
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    Ah, the real life "Solo Wing". Love that little tidbit (though those bottom 3 left pictures look suspiciously clean compared to the jagged edge of the right pictures.

    Anyways, So far I'm thinking: 1d10 vs [Target Number] + Level of Pilot (0 Green, +1 Regular, +2 Experience, +3 Veteran, +4 Elite), +/- Plane's Current Damage Modifier, -1 If Pilot is injured, -1 If carrier landing. Roll under to land safely.

    Failure means you roll on the aircraft damage table like you just took a weapons hit. Which means your already damaged plane has a good chance of being destroyed (and possibly you with it).
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)16:41 No.13866234
    Nah, it'd be more like:

    Landing Roll
    >Nat 1
    Nose-dive into the grass at 500mph and walk away.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)16:41 No.13866238
         File1297460510.jpg-(116 KB, 728x1023, AREA_88_VOL_01_CH_05_PG_07_cop(...).jpg)
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    Question is, what to make the target number. I'm thinking 6 might be good.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)17:00 No.13866414
    Good pilots will bring a plane down with no incident 99% of the time. The change is when there is

    Bad WX
    Airframe Damage
    Landing at a contested Airfield
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)17:02 No.13866436
         File1297461757.jpg-(39 KB, 640x480, snapshot20100416161859.jpg)
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    Oh yeah, I guess I didn't outright say it. You only have to do this roll if your plane is damaged. If its not, you land safely automatically.

    Though, of course, if its after a defense mission and your airfield is full of craters...
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)17:03 No.13866442
    I'd assume the important roll being the one to keep the plane stable in the air at the moment the wing was lost. And an elementary part of nursing an one-winged angel home would be a lack of engine and rear flap damage.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)18:08 No.13867141
         File1297465725.png-(19 KB, 513x764, Payload system idea.png)
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    How does something like pic-related look for my rebuild of MAS's weapons payload system?

    Then each weapon will have a minimum mount size it can be loaded on.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)18:49 No.13867502
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)21:44 No.13868997

    Just to be clear, 1 item = 1 hardpoint? The heavy/light/medium restriction is just for the item itself? Or could you stack up, say mount 3 light bombs on a heavy hardpoint?
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)21:47 No.13869027

    That's actually...

    really pretty damn sweet. mind if I use it?
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)21:53 No.13869106

    Also, for those perusing the Google docs... the astute observer might notice some names from the original Planes & Mercs campaign making cameos as NPCs...

    The campaign is just starting out, so all the players have to start somewhere and work out. The Falcon is definitely a mid-to-high end fighter craft, given all the options that are available.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)22:07 No.13869279
         File1297480066.jpg-(26 KB, 450x359, 450-McDonnell_Douglas_F-4E_Pha(...).jpg)
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    Yes, one item per hardpoints. However there are a weapon racks allow you to carry more. A Small Bomb Rack can carry thre Mk-82 500lbs bombs but needs a Medium hardpoint. a Large Bomb Rack can carry six Mk-82 Bombs or two Mk-83 1000lbs bombs.

    I'm finishing some things up right now. I'll post em soon.


    Feel free, what are you doing/using?
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)22:47 No.13869682
         File1297482471.png-(45 KB, 923x925, Hardpoints.png)
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    Well, here are the aircraft I've done so far.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)22:50 No.13869728
         File1297482658.png-(68 KB, 1030x661, Area 88 MAS Weapons.png)
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    And my current weapons list.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)22:53 No.13869753

    I'm egon, over on the P&M forum.

    The system I have in place now is actually more of a pain in the ass than this one looks like it'd be for the players. it's loadpoints/hardpoints/weapons tier. this actually looks like it's work MUCH better.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)23:03 No.13869866
         File1297483390.png-(359 KB, 768x1126, Su-35-KNAAPO-Brochure-Loadouts(...).png)
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    Yeah, I'm hoping this'll be suitably crunchy while staying relatively simply. Takes a bit of research (and sometimes guesstimation) based on pictures to do each plane though.

    A loose guideline I've been using for determining hardpoint size and sizing ordnance is the 500/1000/2000lbs bombs. If the hardpoint can stuff things about 500lbs on it, its Light, 1000 Medium, 2000 large.

    Also been collecting every damn loadout sheet I can find. I'm considering trying to make a fancy graphical version, but I'm not sure I want to put in the effort.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)23:08 No.13869918
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    Unfortuantely for myself, I'm just about to the point in my modifying and rebuilding where I need to start working on prices for aircraft and ordnance, as well as mission payouts.

    This it the part I've been looking forward to the least. It'll be rough balancing act, trying to make weapons and fighters both reasonably priced...
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)23:11 No.13869949

    I know what you mean. Right now, As I'm working on getting the mechanics of my system done, it's all just black and white plaintext, no fancy graphics or anything- that'll come when the system is sound, playtested, and I'm getting it printed (got a friend working in a print shop, also happens to be one of my players, said he'd hook me up)

    The system you've got there solves alot of the weapons bullshit problems I've been having- I'll modify it a bit, and good to go. well, hopefully.

    that'll just leave fleshing out maintnence, doing upgrades, and statting up the rest of the 300-odd aircraft.
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)23:13 No.13869975
    >50 sidewinders

    Thats such a good deal. You can flog them on for like 1000 times the profit easily
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)23:17 No.13870028
         File1297484271.jpg-(124 KB, 728x1074, AREA_88_VOL_01_CH_02_PG_29_cop(...).jpg)
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    Just remember, you get what you pay for, and if you pass them on to someone else, (they'll remember too assuming they survive).
    >> Anonymous 02/11/11(Fri)23:30 No.13870159

    I would suggest working from what you feel is an "average" mission payout or average income level for a group of PCs, and how fast players should progress aircraft in terms of missions.

    i.e. this airframe can be purchased in X missions.

    Obviously you'll have to fine tune a bit to account for maintenance, repair, munitions, and replacement expenses, but getting a feel for how much players are generally expected to earn in one mission and balancing around that is a place to start.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/11/11(Fri)23:51 No.13870360
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    Yeah, but its gonna be a tough balancing act. I want the loss of a fighter to be a harsh blow, but not necessarily something the pilot can't bounce back from (assuming he survives the plane's destruction).

    I definately want a wider range of prices though, in vanilla MAS, a 500lbs bomb costs $1, a Sidewinder also costs $1, a Sparrow costs $2 and an F-4 Phantom costs $35... A heavy loadout of 4 Sidewinders, 4 Sparrows and a shitton of Mk82 would cost... probably more than the Phantom. Not a very good ratio if you ask me.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)00:34 No.13870756
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    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)00:54 No.13870910
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    Fun Fact, until the F-16 came along, nothing in the western inventory could match the turning ability of the MiG-21.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)00:56 No.13870935

    Not even something lighter like the Tiger?
    Is that Sustained Turning?
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)01:00 No.13870974
    Indeed. F-4 Phantom pilots in Vietnam had to resort to superior radar technology and the tactics allowed by such to overcome them. Medium-range air-to-air missiles didn't hurt, either.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)01:01 No.13870980
    Use them as dumb fire rockets they're still a steal.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)01:06 No.13871033
         File1297490786.jpg-(117 KB, 804x536, Thunderbirds.jpg)
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    I must admit that I am quite a Falcon fan and seeing one taken down by a Fishbed is an insult I wish I had the chance to redress by signing on with the group and hoping I get a chance to hop in one. ;) Alas, I have not the time.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)01:19 No.13871185

    >Fun Fact, until the F-16 came along, nothing in the western inventory could match the turning ability of the MiG-21.

    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)01:25 No.13871240
    I think he was referring to jet fighters that weren't from the first generation.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)01:30 No.13871284
    That doesn't explain Top Gun.
    Fun Fact #2, Mig-21 was designed when soviet airthinking was in the same "missiles are the shit" phase as the F-4 developers.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)01:46 No.13871448
    Wait, then why did it only have two hardpoints to mount missiles on?
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/12/11(Sat)01:46 No.13871451
         File1297493200.png-(40 KB, 1063x407, Area 88 MAS planes.png)
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    Well, here is my first attempt at pricing.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/12/11(Sat)01:48 No.13871470
         File1297493296.png-(63 KB, 1026x636, Area 88 MAS Weapons.png)
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    Not sure how it is at all, currently my idea is to have each Exp a mission offers worth $25 (in vanilla MAS its $5 per Exp). Meaning an average mission with a "moderate" thread level is worth $225 (2d6+4 average = 11).
    >> vendredi !!RLgbKFHhXo1 02/12/11(Sat)02:24 No.13871806
    While that's true, Soviet design doctrine has always been considerably more incremental due to economic factors. Soviet design has always been more conservative compared to the U.S., preferring to build more on established aircraft. Even today you see a great many derivatives of existing airframes.

    For more on that see http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1984/strode.htm

    Furthermore, to answer >>13871448 more fully, Soviet designers have historically prioritized high performance over range and mission payload. Aircraft design is all about tradeoffs, you can't have more of one thing without giving up something else.

    Warsaw Pact fighters were meant to be deployed en masse, so the fact that individual fighters carried a smaller payload was less relevant - there were always more MiG-21s. Their performance characteristics, however, meant they were more able to get into a position to make that payload count.

    Conversely, NATO (and the U.S.) had the opposite problem and a different doctrinal approach; they simply could not put as many fighters in the air, and in the case of the U.S., they might be forced to operate far from any frontline. Hence, U.S. designs tried to keep payload and range restrictions in mind, and developed weapons like the AIR-2 Genie nuclear rocket.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)02:30 No.13871888
    Shouldn't the F-14's Maneuverability be variable based on it's swing-wing design?
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/12/11(Sat)02:34 No.13871942
         File1297496053.png-(104 KB, 1531x771, Oh fuck me thats a lot of MiGs(...).png)
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    Possibly, but MAS is a very abstracted system, here is what the "map" looks like.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)02:36 No.13871969
    Well that explains things. Thanks vendredi.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)02:37 No.13871990
    Gotcha, not familiar with the system at all, but I do know my 80's planes pretty well. Anything the represent the F-14's simultaneous multiple engagement ability?
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)02:40 No.13872030

    Generally variable geometry wings do not add a "bonus" to maneuverability; what they do is change the wing planform so that the plane handles consistently well at both low and high speeds and is more efficient with fuel usage during low and high speed flight.

    A Tomcat would not suddenly become more maneuverable by extending it's wings out straight; rather, it is equally maneuverable at both high and low speed because it can change it's wing planform. That's grossly oversimplifying it of course, but that's generally the rationale behind variable sweep wings.

    They've fallen somewhat out of favour mainly because they're very complex, add only marginal performance, and newer airframes, lighter materials, and better engines have mostly managed to make up for the lack of variable geometry. Also the fact that improved avionics and instrumentation make air-to-air combat at high speed more likely. The places where you still see variable wings a lot is close support planes like the Panavia Tornado, which benefits a lot from the consistent handling at different speed levels.

    Unless you're trying to model every aspect of the physics of flight you can usually abstract this into the statistics themselves.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/12/11(Sat)02:45 No.13872087
         File1297496703.jpg-(42 KB, 640x480, snapshot20100711123355.jpg)
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    Nope, its a simplistic game.

    It IS, however, the only plane in the game that can use the AIM-54 Phoenix, which can blow way targets 2 mission bands away, one of the few missiles that can do so
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)02:46 No.13872110
         File1297496795.jpg-(108 KB, 800x600, abigaile marley.jpg)
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    Alright, I'm looking to get into this.

    I've got a character name and avatar so far, now I need a paragraph for background and a group to fly with, and then email the GM?
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)02:56 No.13872219
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    Ah, nevermind that. I read "Do steps 1,3" as "do steps 1-3"

    Makes more sense to roll stats before writing the bio anyways.

    I'm not sure how to set my group to "Firestorm Mercenary" however. Is it automatically assigned? I don't see an option in the profile settings.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)02:57 No.13872238
    It's something the moderator assigns. Sukhoi will do that for you.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)02:58 No.13872244

    Musketeer Flight took two F-16 Cs.

    I think they were the first to lose a pilot in the game, the flight lead in an F-16.

    So...you might as well economize and get a decent cheap plane like a Draken or F-5. All the enemy is flying is Frescoes and Fishbeds anyways.
    >> Hendrik de Jager 02/12/11(Sat)03:01 No.13872269

    sukhoi will set that next time she's on.

    Should mention that she's ok'd all flights taking on 2 extra members, so there's plenty of room.
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)03:02 No.13872284
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    Heh. I was actually planning on a Draken J35J from the get-go. [Damn is it a sexy plane]

    At least, assuming there's enough funds available to purchase it.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)03:05 No.13872316

    You do steps 1 and 3 after you have fleshed out a concept for the character. You don't need a full backstory yet but having some idea or concept about what sort of character you're making that the GM can evaluate. This is to keep the general feel of the campaign cohesive; the GM reserves the right to ask you to re-work your character if the tone is really far out there.

    PM your account name and character details to the forum admin and if your character is accepted your group will be set to Firestorm Mercneary.
    >> Hendrik de Jager 02/12/11(Sat)03:05 No.13872320

    Actually the Kattes lost Creek after his Fishbed disintegrated on finals, he wound up racing along the runway at 200knots bouncing all over.

    Problem was, the Fishbed was right behind him at around 150...

    So far the Badger, ChiCom Fishbed, Mirage F1 and Tiger-II have shown they can take a good bit of damage and keep going no worries. Losses have been the aforementioned Viper, Fishbed, and a Tiger-II that stalled out and pancaked in the desert. Pilot ejected though.
    >> Hendrik de Jager 02/12/11(Sat)03:08 No.13872346

    Still waiting for confirmation plus word from sukhoi about when next month starts, but we had a final-run Draken on our first op, and we're buying another one for the Creeks replacement. The Ultimate Draken is about 450 credits, about one month salary for us (not counting mission pay) and it's pretty good- solid AtG, high speed, lots of hardpoints.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)03:08 No.13872353

    Swart Katte was the first flight to lose a pilot. Slammed into the ground during his landing attempt since his plane was shot up from flak and was at bingo fuel.
    Musketeer is the first to lose a pilot in combat, though.

    Opposition hasn't just been Frescoes and Fishbeds either, there have been plenty of SAMs and ZSU's. It's more that the system is highly lethal; it doesn't matter how new a plane you are flying - a Sidewinder or Vympel up the tailpipe will wreck you just as good.
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)03:11 No.13872394
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    Well, I've got a general character concept, but I didn't include any of the details in the PM, just the name and email that the post specified to include.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)03:25 No.13872501

    Well, it's not mandatory, but it help; and this is for online RPGs in general. Since the GM doesn't know you personally most of the time, having a sample of what to expect helps a lot. The other option is to lurk around and make posts on the other forums, but that's not always an option in an online game.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)03:53 No.13872723

    Great, I submitted a complete character bio (minus stats) to her. Hopefully, I can get in.


    So Hammer ejected, how does he get back to base?
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)03:57 No.13872761
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    As modernized Mig-21 variants go I actually am very partial to the newer versions of the Chinese built J-7. I reall like the look of the double delta; it's like it's got a been of Draken blood in it.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)04:00 No.13872794
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    As was mentioned before, Aquila didn't buy CSAR... so I think he'd better start walking...
    >> Hendrik de Jager 02/12/11(Sat)04:05 No.13872835

    Post it here too, with everything that's relevant.


    We need to know something about the new meat before we can send them off to the Sandpit
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)04:27 No.13872996

    It's not a point being economical, it's more a point of using your funds to get the best bang. Perhaps taking 2 expensive planes like that to our first mission wasn't smart, however there are lots of "What If's". Dicelog can hit you with a string of bad rolls which can cripple your ability to do the mission. To be honest, I'm surprised it went that 'well' to as long as it did. If we had gone under armed to 'save funds for later' we could of run into problems actually launching and landing with what missiles we had. IE: Griffin.

    You can always resell planes and armaments, but you're going to have a hard time finishing a mission if you have to rely on guns or all your bombs miss your target. Opportunity costs and risk management, blah blah, etc, etc.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)04:34 No.13873042
         File1297503244.jpg-(101 KB, 800x600, mig21_IAF.jpg)
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    The J-7's pretty cool, but the MiG-21-97 is a scary, scary beast that can use all the current-generation missiles. The Bison is basically the export version of the same plane, IIRC.
    >> Russian anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)04:39 No.13873082
         File1297503553.jpg-(24 KB, 346x369, sr-71-blackbird.jpg)
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    Hi. So if I want to take a place in this game what do I need?

    Whom I need to contact?
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)04:47 No.13873140
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    If it's not abundantly clear already, THIS IS THE FORUM.


    You can also find it by googling "Planes And Mercs". Lurk the forums. Look for the Firestorm forum. Look for the rules and how-tos posted by the GM. Do a little reading. It's not really all that hard just to look at and figure out the simple instructions on your own; it will be waaaay faster than what anyone can tell you.

    Posting Tutors, since this is a how-to post.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)04:49 No.13873158

    I think taking two expensive Falcons into that mission was the best choice, all things considered. That mission was very nasty and the performance really did help. Heaven knows how badly you might've been off if you had to engage those 4 MiG 21s in something less capable.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)04:52 No.13873178

    Please note too that open slots cannot be guaranteed. Only four pilots go up per mission and flights can have a maximum of six pilots, and there are four flights available only (which already is the limit the GM can manage).

    As stated previously though, if you're interested in starting up a campaign of your own, you are more than likely to find willing and active players.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)05:01 No.13873221

    6 person flights does allow for cheaper two seaters, Phantoms, Tomcats, whatever euro/russia crafts need RIOs. Probably not the most exciting tihng, but you might get rotated around or something. It may also be better then not playing.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)05:42 No.13873380
         File1297507322.jpg-(37 KB, 800x490, 800px-Pakistani_Chengdu_J-7.jpg)
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    Huh, and I thought I was the only one who liked the look of it.

    I always found it interesting how, in South Asia, they've got the F-7PG on the Pakistani side and the MiG-21 Bison on the Indian side.
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)06:20 No.13873532
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    Well, I just finished writing up the bio for my character:

    Abigaile Marley was born November 17th, 1986 in Dallas, Texas after her family emigrated from Sweden to America. Abigaile was her family's second child. Fascinated by flight and all things related, she obtained a scholarship through the AFROTC program in pursuit of an undergraduate degree in aerospace engineering. Scoring among the top of her class, Abigaile was accepted into the ENJJPT program at Sheppard AFB, Texas flying the Northrop AT-38B Talon trainer with the 88th Fighter Training Squadron before being assigned to Luke AFB in Arizona with the 309th Fighter Squadron for completion of training on the F-16 Fighting Falcon. Commissioned a Second Lieutenant in 2009, she was promptly assigned to Kunsan Air Base in South Korea with the 35th Fighter Squadron.

    While Abigaile proved to be a more than adequate pilot, her personality often clashed with the command staff at Kunsan - particularly her reckless disregard for her own safety and that of her aircraft. Disciplinary action was taken, and for short a time the Texan girl seemed to be shaping up, albeit still on thin ice with the command staff. However, after a very nearly lethal accident in Novemeber of 2013 that resulted in the loss of her Fighting Falcon, Abigaile earned herself a trip in front of a General Court-Martial and was sentenced to a dismissal from the service.

    Distraught over what had happened, knowing she would probably never fly again, and blaming the staff at Kunsan Air Base for 'setting her up', Abigaile entered a short period of depression and wound up moving back to her old hometown of Dallas, Texas. Meeting some old friends and getting some of the support she needed however, helped harden her resolve and gave her an eye towards the future - seeking employment among mercenary groups to prove, to herself and to those who wronged her, that she was still a fully capable pilot.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)08:28 No.13874095
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    >> Hendrik de Jager 02/12/11(Sat)08:54 No.13874238
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    Buns has a first run F-7, only 2 weapon stations for AAM's (PL-1 and PL-2 only ATM, until we upgrade it to sync with Russian missiles...) but it survived a hit from an SA-8 with no real issues.

    The other, original, Fishbed, on the other hand...
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)09:15 No.13874372

    A revised statblock, using your system.

    Mn:5 Mx:26 Pw:HP Acc½:+3/+2 Dec:-4 Ma:M Sz:+1
    Gn:- Am:- Bm:+0 Ld:32 Compatible weapons: AtA:T2 AtG:T1
    Dp:8 Cf:- Fl:- Ecm:- Rdr:6+
    Unit cost: $10.7 Million Rarity: Uncommon
    R Cntr L
    <9> <8> <6> <7> <1> <2> <3> <4> <5>
    (M) (M) (H) (H) (H) (H) (H) (M) (M)
    [Ir] [Ir]
    [Rdr] [Rdr] [Rdr] [Rdr] [Rdr] [Rdr] [Rdr]
    [Bm] [Bm] [Bm] [Bm] [Bm] [Bm] [Bm]
    [AtG] [AtG] [AtG] [AtG] [AtG] [AtG] [AtG]
    [Wet] [Wet] [Wet]
    [Util] [Util] [Util] [Util] [Util]
    >> Hendrik de Jager 02/12/11(Sat)09:26 No.13874448

    Damn Cajun's only experience of air combat before now was probably the Ace Combat series.

    Nothing against the game series, but Jesus are you asking for it if you try and emulate it in real life.

    Easy money- most of the time taken painting up the F-7 was Spiff just facepalming.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)09:28 No.13874454
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    No offense to Buns, but I still cringe a bit when I look at what he had Calvin do to that poor F-7.

    The rest of the Swarte Kattes' paintjobs are perfect, though.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)09:31 No.13874470
         File1297521088.jpg-(434 KB, 1400x951, 1291057848095.jpg)
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    Let's Rock!
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)09:39 No.13874524
         File1297521597.jpg-(233 KB, 1000x818, 1294754115278.jpg)
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    ...can that even fly?

    Also, assuming I do have enough cash available for a Draken, what would the recommended loadout be for an air-to-air specialist?

    From what I've read/seen, I probably want IR missiles - but how many and what else beyond that, I have no clue.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)09:41 No.13874538
    A mix of long- and short-range missiles.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)09:45 No.13874555

    To explain a bit more: SAR missiles have a minimum range need to fire. 1/4 of their max range, depending on the aspect of the target.

    You'll want long-range missiles for distance, and short-range missiles for close-up dogfighting.

    Also, rule of thumb: you'll want to launch two missiles per target to ensure a hit. So carry even-numbered load outs.
    >> Hendrik de Jager 02/12/11(Sat)10:08 No.13874665

    As said, we got one for our first mission, the advanced Draken is 448 credits, lots of hardpoints but only TL4 Euro weapons. That limits it to R530 SAR, and Firestreak and Red Top IR missiles.
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)10:12 No.13874692
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    Well, I was just looking up the stats/specifications on the J35J - and it's got 6 hardpoints, which as I understand it would allow 6 missiles?

    So I figure a decent configuration would be 4 IR and 2 SAR - although I get the feeling that I'd want to have an external fuel tank.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)10:20 No.13874742
    Drop tanks negatively affect maneuverability so you'll have to trade-off that for more fuel if you take one (or more).

    Also, how much fuel you start with depends partially on the roll of the die.

    Your fuel consumption depends on the maneuvers you make and the speeds you go. It's all in the draft of the rules.
    >> Hendrik de Jager 02/12/11(Sat)10:24 No.13874775

    I'm not sure, but I think they get drained before you reach the combat zone... so you don't get a penalty for being loaded, you just need to pay for the drop pod which is then used and discarded, and you get a bonus to your mission fuel supply.

    Also, ingame stats- Draken has 3 external mounts (can hold anything) and 4 pylons (AAM's only)
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)12:17 No.13875533

    Is that a Brewster Buffalo?
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/12/11(Sat)12:23 No.13875580
         File1297531385.jpg-(81 KB, 500x633, NAJN8JTZ6qrs57ayXIv78gEzo1_500.jpg)
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    Nah, its a Gee Bee racer, or at least a reproduction.

    Early 1930s Aeroracer, could reach a blistering speed of JUST under 300mph.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)12:23 No.13875582

    Yes, that's a Brewster Buffalo, and yes it can fly. It's popular at airshows and air races for it's unique appearance.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)12:24 No.13875598
         File1297531480.jpg-(95 KB, 606x438, buffalo.jpg)
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    Uh wait, misidentification on my part. Yeah, that's a Gee Bee. Pic is a Brewster.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)12:30 No.13875656
         File1297531853.jpg-(10 KB, 360x212, 060126_IRIST_3.jpg)
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    There is not a great deal of variance in Air-to-Air equipment; the progression is fairly linear according to cost under the Firestorm system.

    Generally, more expensive missiles are better - they have better range profiles, acquire locks easier, have higher chances of hitting a target, etc. So the real question is more how much you are willing to spend to kill a target. It's quite possible you can spend more in munitions than what a given target is worth. On the flip side, sometimes it's really essential to kill the other plane immediately, like if he's about to smoke your buddy. So those are all considerations to think about.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)12:34 No.13875686
         File1297532077.jpg-(52 KB, 640x480, yukikazereticule.jpg)
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    Also, note that missile types use two different skillsets - your SAR stat affects your ability to lock on with radar-guided missiles (usually longer ranged missiles: the AIM-7 Sparrow or AIM-120 AMRAAM are the classic U.S. examples), and your IR stat affects your ability to lock on with infrared-guided missiles (usually short-range missiles like the AIM-9 Sidewinder). That's just scoring a lock. Whether or not a missile hits is affected by the tech level of the missile, your relative position, and specific aspects of the target (such as afterburner heat, whether it can pop flares/chaff, etc.)
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)12:40 No.13875732
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    I love these big ass plane. Looks like the pilots are riding straight on the mofo big ass engine.

    Inf act it looks like they built the plane very tight around the engine and suddenly they saw: "Damn, we have to build some sort of saddle for the pilot on top of it ..."
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)12:41 No.13875745
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    Like the only thing they had in mind was the engine, but not to have place for a pilot
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)12:51 No.13875824

    I think the Me-109 had the same concept...yet it looked a lot more agile than these big planes...
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)12:53 No.13875837
    radial vs in-line engines.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)13:00 No.13875900
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    So what would the stats for this be?
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)13:18 No.13876035
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    Speaking of planes with girth-y proportions...
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)13:20 No.13876053
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    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)13:21 No.13876054
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    I'm in love.

    Too bad the tech level is so high. I'd be all over this thing if I get picked up.
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)13:21 No.13876056
         File1297534870.jpg-(310 KB, 694x1002, 1295734682185.jpg)
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    Alright, just got my dice roll - nothing special [sadface]:

    1 + 5 + 5 + 7 + 4 + 4 + 7 + 4 + 9 + 1 = 47
    If I understand the stats right, this means I've got
    3/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/6/3 attributes to distribute?

    Damn, makes me wish I could have a reroll. So... average.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)13:23 No.13876070

    Hey, I got 2 3s too bro. Nobody's perfect.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/12/11(Sat)13:25 No.13876086
         File1297535143.png-(82 KB, 800x533, 800px-SAAB_J_29_Tunnan_-_3D_dr(...).png)
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    Good ol' Tunnan. There is just something about its shape and curves I love.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/12/11(Sat)13:26 No.13876093
         File1297535192.jpg-(147 KB, 1392x1010, gripen_tunnan.jpg)
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    Huh, didn't even realize that was transparent.
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)13:34 No.13876157
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    nah, it's not the 3's, it's all the damn 5's. Hell, I'd take another 3 if it meant I could bump something else to a 6.

    Anyways, stats for Air-to-Air specialist:
    Airmanship: 6
    ACM: 5
    AtA IR: 5
    AtA SAR/AR: 5
    AtA Guns/Rockets: 5
    AtG Unguided: 3
    AtG Guided: 5
    AtG Guns/Rockets: 3
    ECM: 5
    Ident: 5
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/12/11(Sat)13:39 No.13876210
         File1297535957.jpg-(17 KB, 400x319, saaf_kills_rankin_02.jpg)
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    Does AtG Cannon/Rockets also cover cannon use against enemy aircraft?
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)13:40 No.13876223
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    At a guess, I'd say that the AtA Guns/Rockets skill covers that.
    >> Faisal Al Qadi 02/12/11(Sat)13:41 No.13876224
    Let's see my stats:

    8 + 1 + 4 + 9 + 8 + 6 + 3 + 4 + 6 + 9 = 58

    NOT a bad roll. Not a bad roll at all. Too bad no 10s though.
    >> F-22 fag !nUpIOg2/OM 02/12/11(Sat)13:42 No.13876236
         File1297536123.jpg-(1.28 MB, 2399x3600, 20101203raaf8494074_0005.jpg)
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    neg, AtA cannon/rockets covers that.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/12/11(Sat)13:43 No.13876250
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    *facepalm* Well, I'm fucking blind.

    Hey, whats that noise behind me?
    >> F-22 fag !nUpIOg2/OM 02/12/11(Sat)13:46 No.13876279
         File1297536413.jpg-(199 KB, 1200x812, 189.jpg)
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    Its probably just the wind. Im sure you will be fine.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)13:52 No.13876327
         File1297536728.jpg-(61 KB, 800x514, 800px-Italian_Air_Force_AMX_fi(...).jpg)
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    Glad to see someone else can appreciate the AMX International A-1.
    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)14:20 No.13876545
    Alright, I suppose all that's needed now, is to find a squadron to join.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)14:53 No.13876826
         File1297540417.jpg-(559 KB, 2100x1350, Italian_Air_Force_AMX_fighter.jpg)
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    It's a thing of beauty. I love ground-attack birds. That's why I went with what I did.

    I'm honestly wondering if someone's gonna put me in an A-10. I mean, I have AtG Guns/Rockets of 7.

    Not that I want a Warthog per se, just that the tech level and cost would probably allow it. I prefer the Frogfoot or the A-1 personally. The GAU has its charms though, to be sure.

    I can't decide if I like the Brazilian A-1 or the Italian one. I guess it depends on how much ammo the Vulcan gets on the Italian job. The DEFA hits harder either way.

    Might as well namefag in this thread while I'm at it. Also pic related, it's the Italian one.
    >> Walter Johannes 02/12/11(Sat)14:56 No.13876846
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    I forgot to re-namefag but remembered to re-up my pic when captcha went haywire. Wow.

    Another AMX A-1 shot as penance. Dem DEFA cannons man. This is a good shot of them.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)16:21 No.13877435
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    There's a ton of really low-cost, low intensity ground attack aircraft out there actually. They don't have the same glamour as the top-end jet fighters, but they sure do get the job done.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)16:26 No.13877473
         File1297545979.jpg-(57 KB, 751x599, 751px-AGM-88_and_AIM-9_on_Torn(...).jpg)
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    True. What I'm really looking to get for Griffin though is at least one dedicated SEAD aircraft.

    That's and absolute must, based on what Aquila and Swarte Katte have gone through during their first missions.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)16:49 No.13877698
    Hmm...I think this thread might be on autosage already.

    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)16:52 No.13877726
         File1297547567.jpg-(36 KB, 640x480, yukikaze4.jpg)
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    Not quite there yet, still plenty of life left.
    >> Walter Johannes 02/12/11(Sat)16:54 No.13877743

    Oh lawd, the Cessna Dragonfly. If it weren't a 2-seater I'd love it more than the AMX.


    Are there any Wild Weasel options? I've seen some EW/ECM planes (Raven), but I don't remember if there were any WWs. Of course, there are a lot of variants to root through, so I could have just missed them.
    >> Walter Johannes 02/12/11(Sat)16:54 No.13877754
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    Forgot my pic.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)17:10 No.13877915
    There are a bunch of historical SEAD/EW planes on the list. Really expensive, though.

    The F-105G Thunderchief is probably the cheapest. I wish the Tornado ECR were available, though.
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)17:25 No.13878052
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    Speaking of SEAD aircraft...

    I was looking up the article on Wikipedia and saw that the JF-17 was listed.

    This actually makes a lot of sense, since it's a multi-role aircraft and it's apparently designed to carry the Brazilian MAR-1 anti-radiation missile currently in service with the Pakistan Air Force. Also since the Pakistanis are replacing all their F-7s, Mirage IIIs, Mirage 5s, and A-5s with a large number of JF-17s.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)17:32 No.13878120
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    To be perfectly honest, a lot of the earliest SEAD aircraft were put into the role because they had decent performance while carrying a radar. Early SEAD tactics were essentially playing a game of high speed chicken with ground-based SAMs.

    All you needed for SEAD early on was an active radar, a decently responsive plane, and a whole lotta balls.

    There's a reason the Wild Weasel motto is "You gotta be shittin' me".
    >> girder 02/12/11(Sat)17:44 No.13878219
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    True enough.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)18:52 No.13878923
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    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)20:11 No.13879966
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    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)21:02 No.13880594
         File1297562563.jpg-(307 KB, 1800x1116, Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21PF_USAF.jpg)
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    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)21:16 No.13880738
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    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)21:28 No.13880872
    It is so sad that kids don't have awesome cartoons like this anymore.
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)21:34 No.13880936
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    >It is so sad that kids don't have awesome cartoons like this anymore.

    When we started the Musketeers, I thought of this cartoon more than of the original. Pic related (also, who my character was supposed to be according to the order in which she joined the flight).
    >> Faisal Al Qadi 02/12/11(Sat)21:40 No.13880993

    I recall the F-4 Wild Weasel variant being more expensive than a F-22.

    That should show how valuable they are in game terms.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/12/11(Sat)22:12 No.13881364
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    Twas a silly, but awesome show.

    >> снайпер 02/12/11(Sat)22:44 No.13881715
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    Alright, I'll give it a shot.

    Aircraft: Valkyrie VF-1
    Tech Level: 9
    Damage Base: 25
    Max Airspeed: 32
    Minimum Airspeed: 3

    Maneuver: 2
    Aerobatic: 3
    Defense: 20
    Climb Rate: 4

    Maneuver Loaded: 3
    Aerobatic Loaded: 2
    Defense Loaded: 19
    Climb Rate Loaded: 3

    Shallow Dive: 2
    Steep Dive: 4
    Power Dive: 6
    Vertical Dive: 7

    Operational Ceiling: 18
    Stores External: 6
    Stores Pylon: ?
    Stores Internal: 0

    Gun: GU-11 55mm tri-barrel
    >> Anonymous 02/12/11(Sat)23:59 No.13882501
    The game that has developed there seems pretty cool, there's like 20+ players now.
    >> girder 02/13/11(Sun)02:18 No.13884336
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    Once again, the dicelog has been a fickle mistress.

    I managed to roll a '1' on a missile lock.

    Then the MiG rolled a '1' to break it.

    Oh, well. At least the chopper's safe.
    >> Faisal Al Qadi 02/13/11(Sun)02:40 No.13884606

    Fickle mistress? More like vile rapist.
    >> girder 02/13/11(Sun)02:44 No.13884633
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    On a sidenote: I'm gonna propose that Griffin Flight hire one new member after we finish our first mission. Hojo's still in limbo, so we've saved a spot for him, but since we can have six pilots we can get one more.
    >> vendredi !!RLgbKFHhXo1 02/13/11(Sun)02:51 No.13884710
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    Maybe pick up an A-7 corsair with a duplicate Griffin paint scheme while we're at it...
    >> girder 02/13/11(Sun)02:52 No.13884726
    Hojo's actually expressed interest in getting a Jaguar when he joins in.

    Though I do feel we need a bit more skilled manpower in the AtG department.
    >> girder 02/13/11(Sun)02:54 No.13884734
    In the meantime, that is...

    lemchin's expressed that his DMing's been keeping him a bit occupied and a pilot for him to rotate with would be nice if that's the case.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/13/11(Sun)02:58 No.13884773
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    anyone else not able to access the P&M forum right now?
    >> girder 02/13/11(Sun)03:03 No.13884819
    Works fine for me.

    A bit slow on the download, though.
    >> girder 02/13/11(Sun)03:06 No.13884850
    Or not...
    >> Anonymous 02/13/11(Sun)03:08 No.13884869
    What Block F-16 was shot down?
    >> Faisal Al Qadi 02/13/11(Sun)03:13 No.13884909

    I can't either.


    It was a F-16C I believe.
    >> girder 02/13/11(Sun)03:13 No.13884919
    It was an F-16C so anywhere from the Block 25 to the Block 52.
    >> Anonymous 02/13/11(Sun)03:17 No.13884949
    Not necessarily,
    F-16C is the designation for 25-32.
    Block 40/42 are CG
    Block 50/52 are CJ
    Block 60 IDK not flown by the united states except to train UAE pilots

    other then that the C represents a 1 seat jet, while a D would be a 2 Seat variant
    >> Anonymous 02/13/11(Sun)03:22 No.13884985
    I too am having trouble accessing the forum.
    >> Air Action Weekly 02/13/11(Sun)03:37 No.13885065
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    Oh well, hopefully its working in the morning.
    >> vendredi !!RLgbKFHhXo1 02/13/11(Sun)04:10 No.13885259
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    Bump with related artwork, as requested a while back. Still WIP, got a lot of polishing to do.
    >> Anonymous 02/13/11(Sun)04:11 No.13885264
    And I think thread is now on autosage.
    >> Anonymous 02/13/11(Sun)08:58 No.13886701

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