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  • File : 1297189404.png-(64 KB, 476x358, Dawn_of_the_Final_Day.png)
    64 KB Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:23 No.13826969  
    The Groundhog Day loop. Would it work in a tabletop rpg? Taking Majora's Mask as an example, you have a limited amount of time before the world is destroyed. However, the party is in possession of a macguffin that allows them to return to one set point in time with only their belongings. You can return to that point in time at any point in your adventures, but everything you've accomplished up until that point is lost. What do you think, fa/tg/uys?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:28 No.13827013
    It works if you make it only fluff, but it gets boring eventually as the players already know exactly what happens where at each given moment.

    This is remedied by doing what Majora's Mask did. Make a fuckhueg world full of people and sidequests and stuff.

    Also make the macguffin have a nonspecified, but finite, number of charges and always remind the players that the next would be their last chance to go back in time even if it isn't. It gives them a motivation to stop derping around in the plaza.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:31 No.13827041
    As soon as I read Majora's Mask I started humming the market theme.

    I think it'd be cool though. I know my players would certainly appreciate it.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:34 No.13827063
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    >As soon as I read Majora's Mask I started humming the market theme.
    Good god what I'd give to have that theme in my head instead of the creepy Majora's Theme/Majora's Wrath Theme.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:36 No.13827073
    I like how the Market Theme changes every day, as the end draws closer and closer.

    When I realized it was different on the Third Day--I won't lie, I freaked out just a little.
    >> Some Suggestions Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:37 No.13827090
    1. Watch lots of Doctor Who. Just in principle.

    2. Groundhog Day was very much a Buddhist allegory. You could mine that for a whole campaign by mapping the overall quest for transcendence onto the very mechanical levelling up of characters. Or not.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:37 No.13827092
    Or Clock Town, rather.

    I think you know what I mean.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:37 No.13827093
    I have Final Hour in my head.

    There's a church near where I am. Bells sounded while I was humming Final Hour. I actually freaked out, broseph.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:37 No.13827094

    I'd rather have different songs than this one, because I'm still humming it and it will undoubtedly be stuck in my head all day.
    >> Envy 02/08/11(Tue)13:38 No.13827099
    >>gets boring eventually as the players already know exactly what happens where at each given moment.

    That's the point, isn't it? You have to get to know the schedule and world, not just interact with it.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:42 No.13827126
    Having your PC's going into a different doungeon every every time they restart would be closest to the game, but that would be too similiar...

    An idea for a sidequest: In order to advance the story the PC's need to talk with a certain character. But they only get this info on the third day after completing another quest.
    When they go into the town to look for this certain NPC they learn, that he died yesterday somewhere somehow.
    Then you need them to go back in time to find out how he died, prevent that and let him help them.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:45 No.13827148

    Enjoy comrades.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:47 No.13827163
    Another idea:
    Have them sneak into an enemy fort to retreave something.
    Have them run into a shitload of enemies, so that they are almost killed and have to go back in time.
    Then they get to know a certain day, when the enemies attack a village, wait for it and then sneak into the fort again, retreave the something, then go back in time and warn the people of the enemy attack and help the villagers defeat them.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:47 No.13827167
    If you planned it really well, it could be a fucking beautiful campaign, but it has a very high chance of falling flat on it's face if the PCs try in any degree to mess with it.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:48 No.13827177

    Check this out.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:48 No.13827180
    Oh, man, remember this?

    Underrated song.

    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:49 No.13827184
    But if they fuck around to much, they could still go back in time and do it better.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:50 No.13827190
    I had an idea like that for a campaign. The problem is really the schedule of events and improvising once the flow of events is interrupted by the players.
    It's literally a clusterfuck of event logistics once you count in the temporal effects.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:51 No.13827196
    Why is the Brawl logo behind that?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:51 No.13827198
    How about a mash-up with Inception-style layering? The MacGuffin doesn't let them go back on their current timeline, but it does let them go into a second timeline, perhaps with diminishing time limits.

    The MacGuffin could actually be a series of different ones that are found through the course of an adventure. So they have a few days to raid one dungeon, find an artifact, use it to jump into a second time line, which gives them a day to find a second artifact, which they can use to jump into a third, in which they have 12 hours, etc. As soon as their time runs out on any given level it "pops" sending them back up one with whatever time they have remaining on it.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:53 No.13827213
    If there's one thing the Zelda games did well, and I think we'll all agree on this, it's the music.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:53 No.13827216
    Or how about:
    The players need to get their hands on two items that are held by two opposing fractions.
    So they join you group, get their item, go back in time and join the other faction.

    Or have an evil NPC have his own mcguffin and he screws with the timeline and the PC's need to fix his shit.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:54 No.13827221
    I ran a Groundhog Day/Saving Private Ryan game once. The players were soldiers at D day and every time they died they returned to the moment the boat doors opened. Everything was working well until I made the mistake of introducing time traveling Nazis. Things got a bit weird.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:54 No.13827223
    >market theme.
    >reepy Majora's Theme/Majora's Wrath Theme

    I hate you. Both of you.
    >> Magus O'Grady 02/08/11(Tue)13:55 No.13827226
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    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:55 No.13827232
    Instead of using an item to return back in time, would it be better if they can only go back to the beginning at a certain place? That way, the macguffin becomes less of an emergency device, and it adds a sense of urgency to the game.


    My other source of inspiration for this campaign was Shadow of the Colossus, so I had hoped to play with the Buddhist Allegory somewhat. The players are struggling against a "terrible fate," but in the process of trying to save the world they may be doing something blasphemous and destroying part of it that beautiful and is somehow vital.
    >> Alexander Degtyarev !!AucbFFW1c5L 02/08/11(Tue)13:56 No.13827237
    Make the PC's gather a bunch of items, with each item's quest taking long enough for the world to (nearly?) end, even if they hurry.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:56 No.13827244

    You're now singing the Song of Storms in your head! I know I sure as shit am.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)13:57 No.13827250
    Holy fuck, this Cam Wilkinson guy somebody here linked is fantastic. I think the Cello might be my new favourite instrument.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:00 No.13827276

    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:05 No.13827315
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    It might work if you have quantum uncertainty. Each time they loop back things change because people make difference decisions. The big choices stay the same (the BBEG will always be working on his or her big plan, the fanatical cultists will always try to summon their demon god, and anyone with a strong enough will tends to act very predictably). The little decisions though will create totally new scenarios. NPCs who were sitting in a resturant one day might go out to explore the woods the next time loop. Perhaps someone who was alive in the last loop goes missing in this loop, and that has knock on effects for whether other NPCs turn up.

    You could make a big chart of effects and roll dice to decide what happens. Could be pretty interesting. Generate about 20 NPCs and give them multiple-choice schedules.
    >> Alpharius 02/08/11(Tue)14:06 No.13827319

    If you can, try to make it so that they need to take it to the wire each time. They should see everything going wrong at least once, all they worked for and cared about going up in flames. And then? Revert. Everything's fine again, and no-one remembers the horrible demise they just suffered not two minutes ago, days in the future.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:10 No.13827356
    The beauty of Groundhog Day was the time it took him to figure out what was going on while the audience knew already. This doesn't work when the players are the audience, though.

    The way I would do it is that it's not under their control, and not initially with their knowledge and that it either happens at a preset time (sundown every day or once every three days) or like in groundhog day just whenever they wake up. However, unlike the film, it only puts them back in TIME, not in SPACE. This means they can travel to different places over long periods of time but still arrive on the day they left. If it begins while they're travelling through the wilderness they might not even know it's happening until they reach a town. And only then does the investigation of what's happened to them can begin.

    Basically, they start off with it happening but have no idea WHY, and only gradually discover that something major like the end of the world is going on and that they need to do something about it. If you don't transport them in space it can remain as un-boring and open-ended as any regular adventure or campaign, just with an added quirk.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:10 No.13827361
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    Higurashi did the time loop quite well. Although each time it was actually an alternate dimension (but everyone has the same back stories and motivations, the only things that change are the decisions the kids make and whether or not a con artist gets caught by her debtors).
    >> Alexander Degtyarev !!AucbFFW1c5L 02/08/11(Tue)14:11 No.13827369
    Actually, keep in mind that when you go back in time, you essentially copy yourself.

    So when you go and follow a second "path" trough the scenario, your "first self" will still be doing your first "path". You could set an objective that the players must do several things at a specific moment at the same time on several different locations.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:12 No.13827389
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    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:15 No.13827405
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    I haven't seen it yet, but I know someone who's got it and I'm going to check it out soon. I'm glad that people think its superior actually. I hope its as much of a mindfuck as the first few arcs of Higurashi.

    >hey son I brought some tea up for you and your friend
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:16 No.13827410

    So there is this nekromancer who attacks a certain village with his undead minions. But the thing is: The Undeads look exactly like the villagers and there are multiple versions of everyone.
    This is, because the BBEG invented a spell that repeats time in a limited area.
    Which basically means:
    - undead attack village
    - kill everyone and take their corpses out of the area of effect
    - groundhog effect!
    - repeat
    - infinite army of undeads
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:17 No.13827419
    You shouldn't have done that.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:21 No.13827459
    Thanks mostly to Majora's Mask and partly to certain horror anime, you can't do any sort of light hearted time loop game. They must ALL be mindfucks. Even if they look cute.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:22 No.13827468
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    The biggest mindfucks actually only turn up in the second half.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:23 No.13827475
    I like the idea of the world decaying a little bit as the world approaches the loop. The kind you see in the music of Majora's Mask. It'll really make the players dread the end of the loop and really appreciate the start.

    >> Alexander Degtyarev !!AucbFFW1c5L 02/08/11(Tue)14:25 No.13827485
    So what the hell do you people even like about the childish gorefest that is higurashi?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:25 No.13827487
    ... okay, that was kind of a bad pic to go with that post. That isn't what I'm talking about, just to make it clear.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:26 No.13827498

    That reminded me, in a very weird way, of Primer. (
    Anybody thinking of time travel of any kind for a game should see that movie.) I don't want to be too specific for fear of spoiling, but I think in general one of the creepiest possibilities for any story involving time travel involves characters discovering that they aren't the only time travelers.

    I don't know how you did it in your game, but I got the impression that the characters might go through several loops feeling special and unique and then get a sudden but undeniable clue that something that shouldn't have changed has changed, and another, and another, like it's chasing them through the quasi-claustrophobic space of a loop in time, until they finally meet the time-traveling Nazis who were specifically sent to hunt the players down.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:29 No.13827522
    I despise Ryukishi for ending the series in such an unsatisfying manner.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:29 No.13827529
    Dunno. I couldn't stand that stuff. Umineko, on the other hand had me download the game its based on after watching a bit more than the first iteration of the loop and reading whole friggin nights.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:31 No.13827547
    Not necessarily.
    I mean, talking purely scientifically, you would indeed, but most forms of magic-based time travel doesn't move you through time, but moves time around YOU. So they wouldn't have to deal with their copies.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:31 No.13827550
    We had this same thread yesterday.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:34 No.13827566
    Don't read past episode 6. 7 and 8... Oh, god they hurt me.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:35 No.13827575
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    >I despise Ryukishi for ending the series in such an unsatisfying manner.
    R-really? I was so fired up about Twilight of the golden Witch after finishing Requiem.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:38 No.13827596
    I'm still not sure what the majority of 7 had to do with... anything.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:40 No.13827600
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    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:41 No.13827608
    Who cares?
    >> Alpharius 02/08/11(Tue)14:42 No.13827619

    And we can have it again tomorrow, dammit!
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:42 No.13827622
    Is 8 even translated yet?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:43 No.13827624
    And the day after tomorrow!
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:45 No.13827634
    If it is, then not by Witch Hunt.
    Question to the guy who already read it: If the end is half-assed, is it at least happy? Or do we get a piece of shit AND a sad ending?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:46 No.13827641
    Not OP, but this is my favorite idea so far. I might even have to steal it.

    But how do I deal with items being copies/lost in time.

    If the party finds that their provisions keep refreshing they will learn something is up. On the other hand, they can take advantage of items being copied by repeatedly taking the "Devil Eye Ruby from the Lord of Pain's Tomb" or whatever.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:47 No.13827650
    After seeing that phrase pasted over /tg/ quite a bit I finally googled that.

    I wanted to sleep tonight. I shouldn't have done that.
    >> Crix !!nLvSV/0cRma 02/08/11(Tue)14:50 No.13827669
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    Chances are you won't like the ending.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:55 No.13827691
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    You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?

    (The story was ok, but not up to the actual thing in terms of horror.)
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:55 No.13827694
    It doesn't help that my reading room has a giant mirror on the back wall. Whenever I turn away to read I feel like my reflection is watching me.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)14:56 No.13827700
    And there goes my good mood.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)15:01 No.13827733
    Errr.... Well, if I was Obi-Wan, I'd call it bittersweet.

    Let's just say that you honestly would feel disappointed by the end of the series.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)15:06 No.13827770
    It was Bern's version of 'the truth'.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)15:06 No.13827774
    I was thinking about this scenario during work a couple days ago. I thought of an idea where they repeat the same day, but they don't go back to their beds like Bill Murry. Instead, they wake up where they went to sleep, but it is the same day. This allows them to travel all around the lands and still experience new things. The basic idea I had was that on the day they are repeating, something monumental happens that causes all the various nearby countries to go to war, similar to assassination that started WWI. The party could use their gift/curse to figure out what is happening amongst the political underworld, but would naturally ignore that and use their gift/curse for profit.

    And then I went back to work because customers showed up and I never bothered to figure out the rest of it.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)15:08 No.13827791
    It's not so much horror as remorse. All those people that you meet, those that help you or even hinder you, it won't matter. They are all going to die horribly.

    Knowing what will happen to the little girl you save from the mind rape is just horrifying. Knowing what the people are going to go through, you feel like you HAVE to save them on the last run. I can just imagine a tired Link, battered and bruised, rushing all over Termina because he knows what will happen.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)15:23 No.13827924
    And you can't save everyone. But don't forget the Mask Salesman, who seems to be an escapee from Call of Cthulhu (Though I made a point of doing the ranch-ghosts, old lady, and bosses, in that order...)
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)15:23 No.13827930
    It wasn't a very good idea, but I thought about having the PCs (in a nWoD game) going through this in WWI. More specifically, every time a PC dies, they would all return back to the beginning of the Battle of the Somme.

    Good thing it wasn't selected, because it would've been utterly frustrating.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)15:43 No.13828084
    >> Boomer !!bcdVCSUmpgT 02/08/11(Tue)15:55 No.13828187
    I had the Wind Waker soundtrack playing when I saw this thread.

    OPs post is an awesome idea.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)18:17 No.13829624
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    The Mask Salesman is Nyarlathotep
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)18:18 No.13829635
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    What you did there, I see it.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)18:21 No.13829665
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    A friend of mine recommended we do something like this, but run it in Maid. Then, gradually the world gets more and more real, less cartoony, and the tone gets darker. The Maids get hurt, get injured, and things stop being funny. Then, after the third day in the mansion, when the maids are just young girls with no real experience, the monsters appear.

    Then, time loop! Back to the cartoony maid world - but the cycle repeats. The players will know that it wasn't a nightmare once the background music begins to decay again.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)18:26 No.13829714
    Scenarios I just thought up for CoC, D&D, or sci-fi:

    + Cthulhu Mythos. Yog-Sothoth worshippers, with Nyarlathotep as the mask salesman trying to recover something stolen from him in the Dreamlands.
    + Primordial Magic. The BBEG is trying to reawaken it, whatever it is, and the time loop is part of the effect. The BBEG may or may not be aware of the loop; perhaps the artefact is sentient and is using the loop for some other purpose.
    + Godlike Alien Intelligence. A ruin is found on a newly colonised planet and is investigated with the utmost secrecy. It actually links to a Sufficiently Advanced alien intelligence that is manipulating time for some reason (possibly something mundane, like it wants to communicate, possibly something more sinister, or possibly it has been woken up and is trying to 'transcend' to another existence).

    In all three cases, batshit insanity should happen that throws the players off and doesn't make things simple. Eventually the world should suffer a terrible fate.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)18:39 No.13829818
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    No, he's just one of his masks. *rimshot*

    In all seriousness, there's a good chance he's Majora, or at least Something Bad. The game certainly hints at that enough.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)18:41 No.13829828
    Delta Green team as Link in Majora's Mask? Oh dear.

    Although given their history with the Greys, their reaction to the ranch would be amusing...
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)18:44 No.13829851
    OK I'm going to run a straight up game of this. I might go for something sci-fi, since I'm bored of running 1920s games. I might fake a System Shock thing going down, make people think the AI has gone nuts, then next loop cut that out entirely and have something appear that throws doubt to that. I figure maybe something like a spreading plague or mutation, which gets totally out of control by the third day. If I can end the third day with the players trapped in a tiny barricaded room while their undead monstrosity of a former friend bangs at the door begging to be let in... that'll be a success in my book.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)18:50 No.13829891
    If it's an IRC game, count me in. Delta Green rulebook?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:22 No.13830114
    I've never ran an IRC game before and I probably won't have time to organise one. Plus, ultrashy around strangers. Sorry bro, but I'll probably just be running this one for my hometown group.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:24 No.13830128
    IDEA : would a game like >>13829851 be improved with some sort of simple homebrew ruleset that can be modded in a pinch. I just watched some of those Ben videos again, and I think if there was some way to make the rules feel 'incomplete' to allow for severe mindfucks, it would be pretty cool.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:28 No.13830152
    Sprinkle SAN loss liberally?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:31 No.13830176
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    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:32 No.13830184
    Create rules that simulate scary glitches? I dunno how that would work.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:39 No.13830237
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    Alright so at the moment my notes look more like Dead Space than Majora's Mask. I might have to drop the space setting and have it somewhere else.

    Let's say its 2040 on Earth. The world is at peace and fairly multipolar. There's a bunch of superpowers and they're all chill with each other since they all need each other to buy shit. Transhumanism and the Singularity haven't arrived but are discussed seriously in political circles.

    It's somewhere isolated, and it must have a plausible reason for the lack of instant net access. How about a deep sea colony? The deep oceans still need exploring and we'll probably be able to construct something at least halfway down by 2040. The players are part of this research project. Characters include all the usual positions. Why not crib from SS13 for the sorts of positions that will exist?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:42 No.13830273
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    DAWN OF THE FIRST DAY : First day should be quite mundane. They meet all the NPCs, have some interaction with the AI. An NPC gets excited about a new discovery and leaves in a mini-sub. Things go well, the main meeting area is happy and fun. Perhaps in the darkest corners of the base there are signs things aren't quite right. A janitor who complains about how spooky things get at designated night hours.

    I'm not sure how quickly things should escalate. If we go by a Majora's Mask three day structure then shit will hit the fan almost instantly if we go with the plague/mutation idea. Well, let's try it. You guys tell me if this next post sucks
    >> Alpharius 02/08/11(Tue)19:44 No.13830290

    It doesn't have to be three days exactly. You could stretch it out a bit, or shorten it, or whatever.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:44 No.13830300
    Add in some oddities with the distress signal. Two signals at the same time, both with the same person's voice, but reporting different circumstances...

    One's under attack from his former comrades, the other reports that the station's sinking...
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:46 No.13830326
    Three days should be kept if possible, as a hint for the players of things to come.

    Definitely have the major players introduced on the first day. Everyone should be excited (well, most of them) to meet the newcomers, if a little baffled about why they came.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:49 No.13830373
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    Second day cont.
    Things get weird. Garbled messages turn up in the computer system, things start to break down. Maintenance gets called, but some of the janitors don't turn up. By late afternoon the captain will start sending out search teams. Most of these will find nothing. An evil presence seems to manifest inside the base.

    Shit hits the fan. By late morning the computer glitches have gotten worse, doors aren't working and the AI claims it can't effect them. People are locked out of entire sections. Almost all of maintaince is gone - search teams break into the locked areas and don't return.

    By early afternoon the creatures start to appear in the main areas of the base. They've been lurking in very obscure maintenance areas since the second day, working into locked/flooded sections, and now they're they're numerous enough to appear in the main areas. They can transform people into one of their own kind by dislodging their jaws and swallowing a person whole. Eventually a new monster will be born clawing its way out of the back of the old monster (who will survive this, and can still repeat the birthing process again and again).

    The AI will become noticeably batshit, but this will depend entirely on what area of the base you're in. The AI will be a bro in some areas, batshit insane in others, and actively evil in others.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:57 No.13830462
    While all this happens, the NPCs will all have their own little sidestories, tasks, and motivations. I'll probably keep them simple, and make a big chart. I like the multiple choice time loop that was discussed earlier, so maybe I'll make up a whole bunch of simple tasks for them to do. Perhaps randomize which engineers go missing first, what each security team finds, and which sections go offline first.

    I want to goad the players into thinking at first that they're playing in a System Shock expy. When "SHODAN" turns out to be quite nice in their second timeloop things should hopefully get freaky for the players.

    The base needs to be very large for the number of people in it. Perhaps this can be handwaved as it needing multiple redundant areas to ensure the survival of the crew in event of a breach?

    The recovered artefact is, of course, an alien artefact in the 2001 style.

    No clue where the monsters come from. Maybe the science team turn into them.

    Not sure about the temporal warp or why the players remember the events. Perhaps the artefact is conflicted, or glitching with itself?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:57 No.13830466
    Has anyone here read 'The Scar' by China Mieville? What happens towards the end of the story as they near the Scar and experience the breakdown of possibilities... that was exactly as unsettling as I would want the big reveal/final twist of this Majora's Mask style RPG to be.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:58 No.13830477
    My memory is a bit hazy, what are the hints that the mask salesman is a bad dude other than his temper and the fact that he has/wants these masks?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:59 No.13830481
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    Forgot my pic. Delta Green actually sounds like an appropriate ruleset. The only problem is how quickly the characters sanity will skydive.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)19:59 No.13830488
    Nothing as far as I remember. He was just generally disturbing.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:02 No.13830525
    I thought of it more as an obsession with the masks rather than any sort of malevolence. Like Gollum, only capable of fluent speech and able to hold down a job.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:06 No.13830580
    That in and of itself is a bit fishy, considering how much he knows about Majora's Mask. When you take into account he knows about the three day cycle and where you find the Mask of Truth...
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:08 No.13830595

    He appears to be unnaffected by the Song of Time, and not only knows perfectly well what Majora's Mask is, but still thinks he's the person who should have it.

    It's also his laughter you hear on the Game Over screen, and his mood swings and erratic movement make him seem like he's only adopted a semblance of human form and mannerisms.
    >> Alpharius 02/08/11(Tue)20:10 No.13830614

    And apart from his swaying and spazzing out, you never see him change positions or move. He does not walk or run or change position on screen. He only ever does that when you're not looking.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:10 No.13830621
    Where do you find the mask of truth again? Been years since I played this game, and years before then since I'd 100% completed it.

    On a side note, the salesman needs a return. Skyward Sword doesn't seem to indicate that he'll be in it, but I'd be happy with a little sidequest or even a cameo.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:12 No.13830643
    An episode of the Outer Limits did it the best; First one or two groundhog loops started out exactly the same, but then after that, the loop returned the main characters a couple of hours later than before, and the amount of time they had in between loops grew shorter. They explained it as the timestream trying to fix itself by pulling the loop shorter and shorter. Soon, the objective became to break out before too many loops had passed by, otherwise they would be frozen in time, reliving the final exact moment of failure over and over again ad infinitum. The episode was called Deja vu.
    >> Alpharius 02/08/11(Tue)20:16 No.13830688

    You get it from the Skulltula House in the swamp, after undoing the curse on the man inside.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:16 No.13830689
    Some poor chump put in on, and wound up trapped as a spider in his swamp house with only his dog for company. You kill the "Spiders of the Curse", and he tells you a travelling salesman sold it to him.

    Coincidentally, the Mask Salesman last had that thing back in Ocarina of Time.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:19 No.13830730
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    How the shit has this image or one of its variants not been posted yet?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:21 No.13830742
    Oh man, that is creepy. I don't remember the mask of truth doing anything of that sort in OoT, but the salesman does warn you that it's super powerful and you should be careful. Maybe he told that other dude the same thing but he derped it and wasn't as careful as the hero of time?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:23 No.13830763
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    Players might get bored if events are the same every time they go through. Maybe instead have the world reset to the beginning of the campaign each time they fail to stop the BBEG, but each time it does this things end up a little different.

    Pic related.
    >> Alpharius 02/08/11(Tue)20:28 No.13830820

    It's also been suggested that the children on the moon look suspiciously like the Mask Salesman, but smaller. Same hair, same ears, just covered with masks. Everything about the man just screams "I am a manipulative bastard and I am playing you for a chump." He can appear and disappear as he pleases, has a preternatural knowledge of everything, has owned some very shady things, and knows that you can manipulate time. Why the hell would he even have the Majora's Mask in the first place? How could he lose it? I always got the sense that everything that happened in the game happened at his doing, to fulfill some scheme beyond the scope of the game. I never really got the sense that he was flat-out malicious or evil, though, because some of his dialogue pointed to a certain tenderness. He just knew way more than he was letting on.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:28 No.13830821
    That episode is pretty much what I'd expect most PC parties to do in a timeloop situation.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:39 No.13830926
    It's quite likely, given in-game and end dialogue, that he's using you to get rid of the "evil" in the mask. Probably so he can use it himself without worrying about LOL 3DAYS.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:41 No.13830944
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    Anyone got any more scenario ideas? This thread is really fascinating. I've always wanted to run something like this.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:46 No.13830993
    Someone greets you at the sub each time. In later "turns" of the cycle, the PCs might notice something disturbing about them, something none of the NPCs can see. Maybe a trace of the monsters' blood, maybe a comment that seems to reference something that happened to the PCs last time?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)20:57 No.13831133
    It's even worse for the Salesman in the (non-canonical) Majora's Mask manga. He's downright evil, down to the whole 'plot behind Link's back to have Link get Majora's Mask back so he can then use it's god-like power for his own.' It helps that Majora gives Link the Oni Mask for their 'game of tag' inside the moon. The Salesman is downright even CREEPIER in the manga, and he just kinda... well, disappears, kindof in the same manner as Ganon, in the manga.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:00 No.13831169
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    Expanding on this, if the PCs are stupid enough to kill said NPC at once, have them locked up. Then have the lights go out, screaming, things Going Wrong.

    As the disaster reaches a crescendo, let the party out.

    >tfw when they see the state of affairs
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:02 No.13831188
    Like that part in Groundhog day?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:09 No.13831258
    How about if it's not something the party is doing, or causing, with a MacGuffin? Rather, it's the BBEG's doing. He/she/it is trying to do something specific (raise a fallen god, find a particular artifact, make a souflee that doesn't deflate), and has been failing. Time and time again. However, the BBEG has the MacGuffin; make the timeframe for repetition something that can feasibly bring the PCs in contact with the BBEG, whereupon they get a shard/gear/etc. from the time-turner. This makes them immune to the 'revert' effect, so they go BACK in time, but they retain all of their gear, knowledge and anything wonky (like the bank tattoo from Majora's Mask; did anyone else get the feeling that Link was stealing from the bank because of the bank tattoo, BTW?) Alternately, the fragment of the MacGuffin allows them to revert time on their own, which then begins a chain with the BBEG; time can only revert to the point the BBEG had originally set it to revert to, so they have to figure out in the time neccessary what the BBEG is doing, while the BBEG tries to alternately nuke the party or get the artifact/whatever. At this point, include the 'shorter loops' entry, where use of the macguffin becomes dangerous because it's shortening the loops, eventually dropping everything into stasis.

    From this point, it becomes an issue of the
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:14 No.13831322
    So if the party fails, the BBEG removes them from time altogether? And they don't know it in the first cycle?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:17 No.13831367
    That could be one outcome from the end. Ultimately if they lose (the BBEG gets whatever his/her final goal is), the BBEG uses the MacGuffin to stop the time loops and goes on to conquer the world.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:18 No.13831368
    You could keep it a secret from the players altogether the first time. Have all these impossible tasks set before them, they fail some and just barely complete others (at the help of tools they began the quest with that they cannot figure out where they came from), then they finally meet face to face with the BBEG who tells them that they've all done this before and since they've failed this time, they'll fail again. Cue startover.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:33 No.13831542
    Could be workable; I kindof like the idea overall of collecting items/magical objects like the Zelda or FF games. I'd say each 'loop' could be set up with a different endpoint, honestly. Each 'loop' has a final destination, essentially a 'this is how we can stop the BBEG!' When that fails, however (writing each ending into a fail condition outside of VERY good luck on the players' parts), they've at least collected more information, equipment and stuff that will help them try again. Alongside this is the constant repetition and problems of the populace around, which also serves as potential advancement.

    Think of it like the Kaffei/Anju fetch quest; they learn bits and pieces of a much, MUCH larger plot (IE: the thing the BBEG is looking for, or the item needed to stop the BBEG), but they have to collect the clues from the various sidequests to put it all together. The bad thing about this is the quest repetition; myself, I'd be inclined to hand-wave some of the more simple Fetch Quest repetitions (or make it like Majora's Mask, where there's one long quest that requires the repetition of certain actions and quests, but the others aren't exactly required to be done again, like the Gibdos Researcher or the Rosa Sisters).

    ... also, damn it. Now I want to go hook up my N64 and try to play a 3-day game on my endgame file and get EVERYTHING done again in three days.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:38 No.13831613
    You have the time. 72 hours remaining, after all...

    Maybe avoid items as such to keep it distinct, but bits of knowledge? If items, gears seem like a good choice? Maybe there's a broken grandfather clock on display, an artifact of Old Pre-Unity Earth on loan from the Victoria and Albert?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:40 No.13831645
    The players are a six-man crew of specialized soliders at a remote Alaskan nuclear silo during the 1960s, responsible for the care, maintenance, and launching of nuclear weapons.

    Day one, they get a basic tour of the small base. Silo with two big missiles, launch control, mess hall, personal quarters. Maybe introduce a handful of well-fleshed out NPCs. The doctor, the cook, the two big guys with guns, the commander. Feel free to make the supporting cast larger or smaller as you see fit, but try to keep it small.

    Day two, the base receives a cryptic encoded message, broadcast directionally towards their base. Triangulating the coordinates, they realize it was tightly broadcast in a straight line to only their base. Signs point that it came directly from over the Beiring Strait. Russia.

    That night, one of the NPCs crack. Maybe the cook tries to poison the food, maybe one of the guards tries to murder everyone. This maniac is overwhelmed. Under duress, he admits he is a Russian traitor, mentions something about purging the capitalist plague in a storm of hellfire and flame, that his plan of getting the launch codes fell through. With a smile, he mentions he has a partner and they are as good as dead. Before the PCs can pump him for more information, he swallows a cyanide pill hidden in a false tooth and dies violently.
    >> Alpharius 02/08/11(Tue)21:41 No.13831656

    Never done it myself, but I've heard that the 3-day game is just barely doable if you chart everything out in advance, plan it to the second, and slow down time the very instant you begin the cycle. Never actually seen it done, though, now that I think about it, so I could just be spreading bullshit urban legends.

    You can totally get a Mew if you have a Pokemon with Surf before you board the S.S. Anne and swim around it, by the way.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:43 No.13831680
    I've wanted to try it, but yeah, it'd definitely require a memorized flow-chart and such about the best/easiest way.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:44 No.13831687

    They sleep fitfully, tortured by terrible dreams. America a nuclear wasteland. Russian boots on American soil. Death and decay and the loss of freedom. They must stop it, they must find the traitor. They have strange permonitions in their dreams. Hand them little pieces of paper, which they must not share. Something like the following:

    Player 1: "Player 2's eyes seem to be darting about rapidly. He seems to have taken a fascination with Player 3. Watch him closely, he may be planning a betrayal. Player 5 is your friend."

    Player 2: "Player 3 won't answer your questions. He/She may be one of them, and may be plotting to kill you. Player 1 just won't stop watching you. They're plotting against you."

    Player 3: "Do not speak to Player 2, or he may detect that you are weak. Player 1 is not to be trusted either, because he seems to be intently waiting for Player 2 to do something."

    Player 4: "You mustn't allow anyone to die. You are all needed for the final moments. Be weary of Player 5, he is untrustworthy."

    Player 5: "Player 4 is your ally, Player 1 is your enemy. Prevent them from talking."

    Player 6: "They're all traitors. Kill them all."

    Player 7: "You are the Russian mole. Find a way to either incapacitate everyone in the base or somehow launch the nukes."

    Randomly assign one to be the traitor, or alternatively make one of the NPCs the traitor. Watch the shenanigans ensue.

    Time loop resets when either everyone is dead or the nuke is in the air. Time loop ends when they find the final traitor, kill him, and prevent World War III.

    When it resets and they know it was the doctor, have the ramifications be severe if they murder the doc cold-bloodedly. In the brig for the next couple days, they see the rockets fire in the night, etc.

    For lulz, change the traitor every loop. For an added bonus, make more than one traitor.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:47 No.13831723
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    I like this
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:56 No.13831834

    That's AWESOME sounding. Will be playing it sometime soon.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)21:56 No.13831835
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:00 No.13831904

    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:01 No.13831923
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    forgot the pic
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:08 No.13832021

    Jesus tapdancing christ that's brilliant
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:13 No.13832091
    Paranoia meets SS13 meets Majora's Mask meets Idon'tknowwhatisthiseven

    >> Alpharius 02/08/11(Tue)22:15 No.13832121
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    Oh god this is genius.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:17 No.13832153
    If you want to add a sence of urgency, put more penalties/roadblocks every loop. Not just "huh, I guess there WERE more than 3 guards," but temporal anomalies, inevitables, rift storms, spatial fractures and deaths. Weird deaths. Like stabbed-through-by-rapidly-growing-roses weird. Make time angry. It dosn't know what's there or why, but it's trying to fix itself. And get rid of them. Who knows? they may even team up with the BBEG in a few loops? Maybe one of the IS the BBEG? Or maybe one of them is the BBEG's doppelganger, sent back and forth through time to kill him?
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:20 No.13832212

    Time as a sentient creature?

    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:20 No.13832216

    Space Station 13 - THE RPG!

    Can we scream 'The Captain is a COMDOM!" and bash someone's head in with a fire extinguisher, too? Because that would be just like home. -_^
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:21 No.13832225
    They're all the BBEG, regardless of age, race, gender, or other such niceties.

    HARD MODE: That goes for everyone on the base.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:23 No.13832253
    Ya know, I like this.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:25 No.13832284
    There's a fluff story in the Continuum RPG in which a Spanner fights with and kills one of her teammates who has turned Narcissist, only to have to perform the cleanup in front of said teammate before they turn Narc.

    Goddamn I love Continuum.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:26 No.13832285

    This is a good idea, but ultimately can be defeated by the old PC strategy of "kill 'em all and let the GM sort them out."

    Perhaps the PCs find a MacGuffin on the afternoon of Day 2. In the wreckage of a ghost ship they find an old clock or something, with a counter set to 5. Each reset of the loop, the timer goes down by one. If they PCs remain unable to solve it by the end, then they lose, gg.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:29 No.13832346
    That looks like an absence where the bulkhead should be? (If you're seeing it, ur doing it wrong)
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:30 No.13832357

    But what about the second base?

    DUN DUN DUN!!!!
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:32 No.13832383
    I think the SS13 meets The Thing meets Crimson Tide setting pushes this thead into archive-worthy status.


    Vote 'er up.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:36 No.13832456
    Topical idea, my good fellow. Vote ahoy!
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:43 No.13832568
    I second the nomination for a vote.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:43 No.13832575
    >Nominating a nomination
    >In a time loop thread
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:44 No.13832582
    Another thing that could be done is the failure conditions. Instead of outright dying or failing, failure condition means that the cycle restarts. But anything important, equipment-wise or whatever, is lost.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:47 No.13832607

    Obviously the players return to their starting equipment. But what the players gain in knowledge, they should lose in odd situations such as what >>13832153 said.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:47 No.13832612
    What would you do if the PCs started demanding signed notes of thanks by the people they've helped?

    "Hi, you don't remember me, but this note written in your handwriting and signed by you states that I've helped you immensely in the past and that you should do whatever you can to assist me."

    That, for EVERYONE they help.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:50 No.13832645

    What would you do if someone presented you with such a note? I for one would ignore it completely, taking it for some kinda prank. If you bring up time travel, I will think even less of you.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:53 No.13832682
    "Are you crazy? Well, I guess I owe you...here you go."


    "Nonsense, that's not my writing."
    "What's that piece of rubbish?"
    "That's impossible!"
    "What paper?"

    (System has stopped responded, stop trying to trick time, press ctrl art delete to restart universe)
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:53 No.13832686

    Only the GM would know for a while just what time and day it actually was, even if you had the same weather pattern (like Majora's Mask had it raining on the 2nd day). The players would be SO fucking confused until the dots finally connected if you did it right.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:53 No.13832689

    Would work for some people, backfire for some others, and would be "lolidk let's see how the d20 goes" for yet others.

    If you can convince someone to tell you some of their secrets from back in the days as a Thank-You, it might be more convincing - you can fake notes, but it's hard to read the mind of other people.

    > inb4 being convicted as a mind flayer
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)22:59 No.13832748

    I like this option the best. Zaniness increasing more and more as time breaks down only improves the setting and makes it more dynamic and impactful for the PCs.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)23:03 No.13832775
    And we have another twist: every time the PCs go back, the items in their inventory warp, fray, degrade or outright shift just... enough...
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)23:06 No.13832804
    That or the players themselves start having a spreading infection that increases a little more every time they go back in time. Maybe their flesh starts cracking and warping, maybe it's a growing bruise-edged blackness spreading and growing, maybe it's eating away at them more and more, maybe it only affects their minds... but if they keep going back in time eventually even they won't recognize themselves in what they've become.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)23:10 No.13832833
    You people sure hate time travel. "They'll go crazy when they see their selves." "Make horrible shit happen to them the whole time." "Make horrible shit happen to everything around them the whole time."

    Did Chrono Trigger make time travel evil? Did Majora's Mask? No. They didn't worry with the horrible fuckery time travel CAN create; rather, they focused on the wonderful opportunities it DOES present. Christ, you twisted fuckers.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)23:11 No.13832848

    We aren't twisted, we just realize that PCs are sneaky bastards that will quickly turn this twist to their advantage, and thus it must be balanced with drawbacks.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)23:12 No.13832859

    We aren't twisted, we just realize that PCs are sneaky bastards who will turn this quickly to their advantage and thus put in cons to this potentially ultimate pro.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)23:14 No.13832888
    Bump for archiving this so I'll have a good one-off to run in future.
    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)23:20 No.13832941
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    >> Anonymous 02/08/11(Tue)23:20 No.13832943
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    Nothing wrong with time travel in Majora's Mask.


    Horror is good for most genres, and fits the theme.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)02:03 No.13834593
    >ultimate that guy probably refreshed because he thought he had a problem posting, and thus double posted

    The truth isn't as great as the lie, is it?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)02:51 No.13835073
    bumping a fantastic thread
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)03:06 No.13835199
    Are there other ways to make the PCs not know what's going on other than the "wake up after the third day and everything's reset"?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)03:10 No.13835227
    OP here, you guys have given me a lot to think about. Can't imagine my surprise to see this back on the front page 12 hours later. Thanks for the awesome thread, g'night bros.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)03:13 No.13835255
    No, the point with that one is that since they're traveling they wouldn't see everything exactly as it was before. Not for a while, at least.

    The problem with it is that unless their gear resets they'll start tracing circles to butcher towns and grind loot.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)03:22 No.13835340
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    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)03:25 No.13835382
    Not especially. Also not that creepy.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)03:27 No.13835395
    I remember that thread. Also fucking creepy shit.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)03:42 No.13835506

    I've done this, but not as a key point in a game. It was as a phenomena during warptravel in Rogue Trader. Only the crew currently on the bridge when something... wierd happened. As it was during warp travel, the number of individuals on the bridge was rather limited... the player characters and about a score of other crew - a pair of officers, helmsmen and auspex crew.

    That one day kept repeating over and over... I think 15 times, each ending with the some sort of massive catastrophe.

    They soon realised that something was activly working against them and then managed to root out a lesser warp entity that had managed to get onboard, after which the timeline continued as normal
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)03:43 No.13835514
    I do like this idea. I'm going to be running a war campaign soon, and think it might be a good goal for the invading army (think Prince of Persia). I find it fitting for a section of the campaign, but extensively I think it might be limiting. Certainly I can have the BBEG figure it out and steal it, but then the PCs are powerless to stop him, aren't they?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)03:44 No.13835527
    Perhaps it could have limited uses by warping the user each time as a previous anon mentioned, or by not going back as far (say, an hour less every time)
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)08:00 No.13837203
    Let them, but punish them in subsequent cycles/later. Repetition, they start going in circles, the victims don't stay dead (get up regardless of injuries and try to continue their routines...you could say like clockwork)

    Or have copies of the same items just crumble into dust when they come into contact with the original. Problem solved!
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)11:32 No.13838550
    >Or have copies of the same items just crumble into dust when they come into contact with the original. Problem solved!

    Players might whine but that would work.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)11:42 No.13838644
    Another idea: have people ask the same question over and over. The question will be connected to the plot in some trivial way.

    "What time is it?"
    "Do you have the time?"
    "What's kept in Lethe?"
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)12:02 No.13838800
    Until PCs immediately kill anyone asking that question, out of annoyance.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)12:15 No.13838890
    An issue that I see arising if the PCs don't realize it's obviously a time reset (with the wandering around version): even my players, who know how much I despise railroading GMs, are likely to think I've put them in a world where their actions don't matter, instead of a constantly resetting world There's a couple things I'd personally do to help mitigate this.
    1. Describe the weather for each day the same way. On day one, it's always "the sun beams brightly down upon the land", on day two it's always "clouds slowly accumulate from the mountains to the west", on day three it's always "the gathered clouds release an enormous deluge of rain". The weather should cue them into something being the matter even if they're running all over.
    2. Have a runner from a village they've destroyed come and warn the village they're in of what happened, but the runner either hid or stumbled upon it afterward and can't identify the party. There's a great hubbub, and people vowing to mount a watch for the next week, guards checking everyone entering and leaving... but in the morning, everyone's acting as if they'd never heard the news at all (this one's someone timeline dependent).

    Making the PCs realize what's going on themselves, instead of it being blatantly obvious, is a great idea, but you don't want them to take forever about figuring it out or it's going to ruin the effect. If you've done half a dozen sessions and the PCs think they've left a trail of destruction behind them still not knowing that the world's reset several times, they're likely to just be pissed at finding out about the lack of impact they've had on the setting.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)12:24 No.13838947
    Does anyone else think that the best horror version is the shorter and shorter resets, possibly with the mutation effect added on as well?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)12:28 No.13838964

    I think so. Adds a sense of omgmustfindsolution.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)12:36 No.13839016
    >Have all these impossible tasks set before them, they fail some and just barely complete others (at the help of tools they began the quest with that they cannot figure out where they came from), then they finally meet face to face with the BBEG who tells them that they've all done this before and since they've failed this time, they'll fail again. Cue startover.

    Well this is where the handwritten notes thing could actually have a lot of benefit--they could have a note in their own handwriting telling them what they have to do, what they've accomplished so far, and what these items that they don't remember seeing are.

    You could have the note be on a wax tablet (the kind that you can scrape clean and re-write on) instead of a piece of parchment, too. Only so much room to write on...

    Perhaps the time right before the campaign starts, something bad happened, and there wasn't enough time to jot down everything before the party was cut down in ambush. Was it more important that at least one person write down as much as they could instead of contributing to the fight? You're damn right it was.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)12:43 No.13839070
    Make the players take notes.
    Have a copy of the players notes.

    I think laptops and a very very detailed time line of what is going to happen in the world without ANY intervention is needed.

    Hell even a self made and self hosted wiki for fast look ups of different things. You'd have to be absurdly organized or good at making shit up.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)12:45 No.13839089
    Normally I'd say make it an NPC scribe who does that, but in this case, having the PCs be their own recorder is pretty crucial, as it will drive them far more than "NPC says". Plus more confusion at the beginning if you start with hastily scribbled/carved fragments of information--some names and places, maybe the name of a sage to talk to for more information, a hint about whatever particular danger would have ganked the party last time, and "DON'T FAIL THIS TIME'. Maybe have it so they can't even be sure the first time if the BBEG is a friend or foe by the way the note was written--if all it says is "MUST FIND LORD ASHCROP", they could find out the hard way that he's the reason for their plight.

    Holding the PCs to only the knowledge they've written down would get a bit tricky though, and would probably get hand-waived after a couple times. Perhaps there was a special reason for any amnesia at the campaign's start (though the note then would be a bit odd).
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)12:53 No.13839153
    Alternatively, you could have a BAD END movie be the base of reference for everyone, if you found the right one to use for it. Everyone watches the movie at campaign's start. Then you try to stop the BAD END.

    Off the top of my head, Terminator 3, just because it ends with the world getting nuked. For some reason, that event causes the PCs to get reset several days. But they'd need a really good plan to actually be able to stop Skynet's plan from working with that amount of time to work with. Far from the best movie to use, of course, but I think you can see where I'm going with this.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)12:57 No.13839175
    I think my players would find a way to screw up Event Horizon to be even worse than it was.

    That would be an easy way to have what happens without PC intervention as common table knowledge.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)13:04 No.13839218
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    20 KB
    But if the PCs remember everything, then a constant loop of Event Horizons...
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)13:07 No.13839236
    You know, I remember there was a pre-set Warhammer scenario for a situation like this. Very long story shortened, one of the gods wanted some artifact thingy long lost in history, so he sent the PC's back in time (though they don't know about it, only just heard about the story - works best if you have a priest or paladin or just a very religious character in the party) to an inn, that'll be attacked by a band of super-mutated beasts within the coming night (they start during the morning near a road leading to the inn and close to a small outpost protecting a bridge). History-wise, the inn got burned to the ground and the inhabitants slaughtered, while the small outpost survived. The artifact in questioned was carried by a paladin, that got into debts and decided to sell it to some wizard-fellow or something like that. Anyway, during the same day, the wizard gets to the inn, buys the artifact and sets off, only to have his horse fail him when he needed it most and eventually he gets slaugheter by the oncoming band and the artifact is lost to history. The defence and fall of the inn is very heavily scripted (that's the GM's biggest work in a scenario like this, just so the players realise they're time-travelling), with the paladin getting drunk beforehand and mustering a courageous last-stand, standing his ground before falling to the biggest and worst the mutants had to offer. The PC's sooner or later get their asses handed to them and they suddenly all wake up in the same spot they started, but with an additional insanity point (so either they figure it out or become crazed chaos-mutants over time).
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)13:07 No.13839238
    The best part here is that their main goal (after a few tries and a few int rolls the MG should gently show them the way if they hadn't figured it out yet) is to get the artifact and place it in a spot that they'll be able to find when they get back to their time or give it to someone who won't loose it (the outpost mentioned earlier was a viable choice if they managed to get there before the onslaught). Hell, the scenario even had a Norski-barbarian solution: The players prepare a glorious last-stand, with the main goal of killing off the main beasts and leaders of the band, so that they ultimately retreat, leaving the inn and the players mostly intact.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)13:10 No.13839252
    Maybe they'll blow the ship up like they were supposed to.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)13:13 No.13839279
    >heavily scripted
    As in, railroading?

    >The players prepare a glorious last-stand, with the main goal of killing off the main beasts and leaders of the band, so that they ultimately retreat, leaving the inn and the players mostly intact.
    At least they realized the route that players would take. Not "oh let's derp about with the artifact" but "okay, this is the 4th time they're going to assault, THIS tactical plan will work! ...and if it doesn't then fuck this campaign, we're just going to play M:tG".
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)13:32 No.13839422
    Nah, heavily scripted not in the railroaded sense, but rather "If the PC's don't do anything about it, at around 21:15 the monsters attack. At 21:16 one of the innkeepers gets brutally ripped apart before he manages to run into the inn, at 21:20 the window on the second floor is shattered as a snake-like beast sneaks in and strangles some-named-NPC to death..." and so on and so forth. So basically it's all written out what will happen if the PC's won't lift a finger to it. If they don't save the artifact but manage to survive they still wake up in the same spot every day (I guess that's why they're supposed to know the story beforehand and get to roll int so that the characters can do the 2 + 2 math for the players, if it comes to it).
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)13:50 No.13839569
    I'm not normally a fan of anything GW, but it sounds worth checking out. You recall the name of the module (or better yet, have a DL link)?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)13:54 No.13839610
    I don't really remember the name, nor do I have it from where I'm writing at the moment. If this thread survives, I'll check and post it tomorrow (let's hope I still have my warhammer stuff where it's supposed to be).
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:00 No.13839668
    I'll do what I can to keep it bumped, but I'm hoping the thread's own merit keeps it alive while I'm at work.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:11 No.13839751
    So how would one introduce this in a Forgotten Realms setting? What causes the catastrophe? What is the catastrophe? What causes the time travel? How do you stop either of them?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:17 No.13839789
    Switching to fourth edition. You didn't really think that what was described in the new version of the campaign setting was ALL that went on, did you?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:18 No.13839801
    You know what, fuck it. Give me a few minutes, I'll fire up my other machine and try to find it. I wonder how exactly I remembered the scenario and if I'm not spilling out utter bullshit.
    >> Ken !TrollKenUE 02/09/11(Wed)14:26 No.13839861
    Inter-party conflict about what to do would tear the group apart. As the party go their separate ways, they argue MORE about how to best save the world, and are ultimately unable to make any large differences on their own.
    They attempt to negotiate, but the players accuse each-other of massive amounts of bullshit (as you can't keep evidence of something that got reset), and can never agree about exactly WHAT's going to happen in the world.
    Eventually someone fucks up someone else's timeline consistently, and players start to wonder exactly what the fuck this timeline is made of - or whether this timeline is stable at all. (It is, the players are just fucking with it and not communicating about what they're doing)
    The party eventually blames each-other for damaging or ruining the timeline, and they fight.
    But, owing to their rewind bullshit, they fight FOREVER, forever stuck in the groundhog day loop.

    I would run it. I would run it in Dark Heresy, I would run it in Call of Cthulhu, I would run it in Paranoia, and I might even run it in 3.5e (but some cheeky fucker will make a 4-dimensional peasant railgun abusing the time loop, and thus break everything).
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:31 No.13839902
    Well, turns out my warhammer folder is no longer in the realm of existence. Damn.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:41 No.13839965
    Wait, what?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:46 No.13840003
    As part of the switch between 3rd and 4th edition Forgotten Realms, there was a giant apocalyptic event of some kind, a lot of people died and even some gods did (not a fan of the setting myself, that's about all I know). Well, who's to say as part of this event that some area wasn't caught in a localized time loop? Or that a time rewind wasn't part of the reason everything got so screwed up, and the world would have ended entirely but for the party kickstarting the timeflow back into gear so that it was -ONLY- a cataclysmic event.

    Shit, even I'd play a FR game if it entailed THAT.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:48 No.13840015
    Delta Green


    Incidentally, am I the only one that thinks this game as Dark Heresy on the last squat world might be fun?

    Players have a month. The last month of the squat empire. As the last star fort burns, and as the hive fleet descends, reset.

    Certainly explains why no one remembers them.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:51 No.13840035

    >Delta Green

    Funnily enough, the next Delta Green book is going to have a scenario in it that features a very weird variation of the Groundhog Day idea. I've playtested it. It's pretty cool.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:53 No.13840058
    Cool! Does it involve a clock tower, by any chance?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)14:55 No.13840069
    Well tell us more about it! Also what's the book's name going to be?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)15:05 No.13840153
    Something that we could apply to any of the ideas so far, actually. The event could be causing the time resets because it literally ends the universe (or the current timeline, your call). This is such an abrupt variation of the timeline--there would be no progression of time after this, at all--that it's sending waves back through the timeline to try and "correct" the discrepancy. But as the event continues to occur in each one, settling in as factual, the waves become weaker and weaker, until finally time is frozen forever.

    If the PCs succeed, time will continue on, but the effect of those waves (depending on how many resets they needed) will have terrible effects on the world. Then again, if they fail, the BBEG will be forever frozen in his blissful moment of ultimate victory having ended it all.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)15:07 No.13840171
    There's hardly enough movies with BAD END to choose from.

    I mean, think about it /tg/, what films would you choose if you were going to do this? It's harder than you think.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)15:10 No.13840202

    The book's going to be titled "A Night At The Opera" I believe, and is just going to be a book of scenarios. Unfortunately, I don't think I'm really supposed to say too much about it, being as it's all super-sekrit and stuff.

    All I'll say is that it involves a lot of dead cats, a mad old woman and this story:

    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)15:12 No.13840216
    Good enough for me. Thanks.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)15:12 No.13840219
    Here's my idea for 4e FR so far...
    This campaign will happen soon after they leave an area afflicted with remnants of spellplague. That remaining spellplague on them will be the major cause of them retaining their knowledge throughout the campaign's time shifts.
    The players arrive in the town to find it completely normal. They are there to find someone, but that person will be out of town for a few days... namely four days. I'd prefer to have them arrive later in the day so they will stay the night but have time to explore.
    On the second day, signs of illness and weakness appear all over town, all as normal. Later on this becomes nearly plague-like.
    On the third day, people begin to die, life force drained away by the necrotic "disease". At the end of the third day, the majority of the town has died, but the PCs seem relatively unaffected (lolspellplague).
    At the end of the third day, regardless of what the PCs have done, time reverts to the first day, right before the PCs enter town. Time continues to revert like this throughout the campaign, even if they leave the town and go elsewhere.
    With each time loop, time seems to be trying to free itself of whatever is causing the problems. See quick growing flowers, other time hazards above.
    Meanwhile, the BBEG is harvesting this town over and over, trying to build an undead army. If he succeeds (which will happen if the PCs ignore this) he will appear at a later time to fuck shit up.
    More or less the PCs have to stop this necromancer before he builds his army. Doing so will not only help fix the time stream but get their hands on the (now weakened) artifact that caused all of this.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)15:28 No.13840362
    Bast's going to throw a shit-fest.

    Are you sure you want a DnD party to play Time Lords? Better make sure they can't use it to its full potential, or plan for that...
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)15:49 No.13840570

    Bast can't interfere. No-one can.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)16:17 No.13840846
    Gods can't interfere.

    But...but...no Lovecraftian horrors?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)16:21 No.13840865

    Not really no. It's rather low on the tentacular spectacular front.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)16:51 No.13841156
    Bumping this thread.

    Damn it, /tg/. You've given me way too many good ideas recently. What am I going to GM over the summer now?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)16:57 No.13841224
    The big bad is the skeleton computer /tg/ designed a while back.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)17:13 No.13841435
    How would that work?
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)18:17 No.13842173
    More or less, I'm gonna have it drained of energy by the time they get it. It will probably be a powerful magic item, but nothing more. I was thinking:
    Daily-Immediate Interrupt
    Trigger: A character regrets the outcome of their turn, or a turn involving them.
    Effect: Redo the turn. Creatures are moved back to position, actions are refunded, and rolls do not count.
    Range 10
    Place a time-bomb on the target. After 1 full round of combat, it detonates, dealing 3D10 damage to the target. As time rends around it, each adjacent creature takes 1D10 damage.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)19:42 No.13842902
         File1297298540.gif-(115 KB, 450x600, gatsby.gif)
    115 KB
    Gatsby & the Great Race already did this, I and 4 other keepers ran it for 12 players at my house.

    Its a tournament scenario featuring a short time warp of only about an hour or so, but with 3 parallel universes and the continuousness of the pcs can flit between them and possess each other.

    One of the most astonishing scenario's I've ever run.
    >> Anonymous 02/09/11(Wed)21:20 No.13843936
    We require details.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)00:57 No.13846354
    bumping a truly fantastic thread
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)03:16 No.13847909
    There aren't really any movies to do the common non-PC storyline with. Even the Terminator 3 example effectively had PCs, and the world ending wasn't nearly enough (nor would stopping it be really within the PC's grasp in 3 days unless they were someone like the President).
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)06:41 No.13849190
    bumping for the module name
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)06:44 No.13849205
    So it's like Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni Kai? Pretty exciting. But it'll take a DM with a sharp memory to pull it off.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)07:57 No.13849598
    Like WHAT?
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)10:36 No.13850658

    Not the same guy, but I can provide a little more than details.


    brb, reading it myself
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)16:26 No.13853587
    Gatsby has learnt a spell that will send him back in time 1 hour, which he's using to cheat at gambling.

    When he uses it he breaks the McGuffin, which breaks into 3 pieces each of which falls into a parallel dimension.

    The 3 parallel dimensions are each occupied variations on the same set of pregen characters - some are having affairs, or are plotting to murder each other, etc.

    Every 60 minutes of game time the scenario resets to minute 0, except for the McGuffin which is out of time and will be where ever it was at the end of the last cycle - it can also be moved between universes and the scenario is resolved by reuniting the pieces. Though depending on how that's done you may condemn the other dimension to being devoured by yog-sothoth etc.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)17:31 No.13854218

    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)18:15 No.13854739
    This thread had so much love earlier, and now it's so quiet even after we get delivery and a lot of good ideas posted.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)18:17 No.13854765

    Well, it IS two days old now.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)22:32 No.13857580
    You say that like it's a bad thing.
    >> Anonymous 02/10/11(Thu)22:40 No.13857653
    Stat the Happy Mask Salesman. Stat.

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