FRS – Short for “Fractional Regulation System”, an experimental supplementary Battlemech control system that relays commands to each of the individual parts of the ‘mech. The ability of the FRS to optimize and execute control over separate components without losing overall control gives FRS the advantage in performance over sole reliance on the traditional command computer’s ability to handle a Battlemech’s myriad systems as an aggregate. Furthermore, FRS performance can be enhanced through the addition of specialized external memory chips. Basically, this allows a vehicle’s pilot to “tune” the machine and enhance its abilities (NOTE: While FRS research has thus far been solely focused on Battlemechs, it is theoretically possible to implement this technology – should it become a proven asset – in aerospace fighters or other vehicles. As of this memo, however, such notions are still purely speculative; it is my opinion that FRS will be far too costly and labor-intensive to ever get past the early prototype stage – Maj. R. Halford).

The total amount of FRS Memory Units that can be acquired and applied to a Battlemech’s FRS is 442. Each FMU applied adds one point to a chosen parameter’s meter, with each meter representing a scale from 1 to 50.

CAPACITY – These FRS parameters all refer to processes which can enhance a Battlemech’s essential ability to handle the different demands of its equipment load.

ATTACK – These FRS parameters refer to processes that govern a Battlemech’s essential functions as a weapons platform.

ACQUISITION – These FRS parameters refer to processes that can enhance a Battlemech’s sensors and electronics.

BOOST – These FRS parameters refer to processes that provide enhanced response from a jump-capable Battlemech’s jets.

CONTROL – These FRS parameters refer to processes designed to enhance a Battlemech’s raw mechanical function.

You probably can, with Experimental Technology.

It should be noted that some FRS parameters from Armored Core have been changed to attempt to bring them into a more fitting mesh with the Battletech aesthetic, and some (such as those relating to Primal Armor) have been eliminated entirely.
_____________________________________

CAPACITY – These FRS parameters all refer to processes which can enhance a Battlemech’s essential ability to handle the different demands of its equipment load.

Load Tolerance – This astounding FRS adjustment improves the Battlemech’s ability to carry heavy equipment through constant sophisticated impulses sent through the machine’s myomer musculature and actuator system. While its benefit may seem comparatively low, the added weight capacity represents a quantum leap forward in the science of Battlemech engineering.

- Every five units of FRS memory applied enable the ‘mech to apply one half-ton of equipment or armor beyond its normal maximum. Do not recalculate any values dependent on the unit’s mass.

Energy Output – This FRS adjustment enables a Battlemech’s engine to pump out more power. This overcharging ability can help a ‘mech exceed the normal maximum speed its engine can provide.

- Every nineteen units of FRS memory applied add 1 to the Battlemech’s running MP. In addition, every twenty-five units applied add 1 to the Battlemech’s walking MP (recalculate the unit’s running MP accordingly; this benefit supersedes the previous running MP bonus).

CAPACITY continued:

Energy Capacity – This FRS adjustment improves a ‘mech’s ability to maintain elevated energy levels. A niche benefit, EN capacity improvement can ameliorate the dangerous strain advanced systems such as MASC or a Chameleon LPS can place on the machine’s parts.

- Every nineteen units of FRS memory applied provide a set benefit depending on the advanced equipment in question. For MASC, this benefit is represented by a single turn of failure-free operation for each increment earned through FRS augmentation, with the normal rules coming into effect after these turns (Classic Battletech Master Rules p.145). In the case of a stealth armor system, the heat Battlemech’s heat venting becomes less inefficient, reducing the stealth system’s heat output by 1 point per FRS augmentation increment (Classic Battletech Master Rules p.147). For a Blue Shield PFD, the benefit is one additional error-free turn of use per 19-point increment (Tactical Operations p. 296). Similar to the benefit for stealth armor, the extra heat generated by a Chameleon LPS (Tactical Operations p. 300) or a Null-Signature System (Tactical Operations p. 336) is reduced by 1 per augmentation increment.

Kojima Particle Output – By manipulating the energy fields within a Battlemech’s fusion reactor, this FRS enhancement stimulates the generation of Kojima Particles, short-lived packets of intense energy that can be vented to make a ‘mech more heat-efficient.

- Every six units of FRS memory applied allow a ‘mech to dissipate one extra point of heat every other turn. At each increment of twelve, this effectively increases a Battlemech’s heat dissipation by one point per turn.

ATTACK – These FRS parameters refer to processes that govern a Battlemech’s essential functions as a weapons platform.

Arm Maneuverability – By improving the responsiveness of a Battlemech’s arm actuators, this FRS enhancement enables a pilot to make deadlier, more accurate punches and club strikes.

- Every ten units of FRS memory applied increase the Battlemech’s effective mass by 5 tons for the purpose of calculating damage from punching attacks and by 3 for club attacks. These modifiers affect special weapons (such as hatchets or claws) that follow these rules.

Firing Stability – This FRS enhancement automatically compensates for a Battlemech’s movements when setting up a firing solution for its weaponry, allowing a pilot on the move to place their shots with greater accuracy while traveling at high speed.

- At sixteen units of FRS memory applied, the pilot of a ‘mech with improved Firing Stability can make a special check when running or jumping: If the pilot can exceed a value equal to his gunnery skill plus his piloting skill on a roll of 2d6, they enjoy a -1 to weapon attack TNs on the Weapon Attack Phase immediately following their movement. At each increment of 16 thereafter, the pilot applies -1 to the TN of this special check.

ATTACK continued:

Aiming Accuracy – This FRS enhancement makes minute targeting corrections as a mechwarrior lines up each shot, making it possible to launch more accurate attacks from long range.

- Every seventeen units of FRS memory applied enable the Battlemech’s pilot to gain additional benefit from the Careful Aim action (Tactical Operations, page 84), granting an additional possible round of careful aiming at each upgrade step (for a maximum of -5 to weapon attack TNs after 5 Weapon Attack Phases spent aiming carefully). At fifty units of applied FRS memory, all of the Battlemech’s weapons range increments are extended by 1 hex – for example, an Inner Sphere AC/20 would have a new range table of 0/4/7/10).

Energy Weapon Adaptability – Somewhat deceptively named, this FRS enhancement enhances a Battlemech’s energy weaponry, allowing it to deal slightly more damage.

- Every ten units of FRS memory increase the damage of all the energy weapons carried by a ‘mech by a value equal to 1 divided by the number of energy weapons mounted on the ‘mech (round up), with all affected weapons suffering a heat increase of corresponding value. For example, a CGR-1A1 Charger with 50 points of FRS memory applied to Energy Weapon Adaptability would find that all of its lasers deal 4 points of damage (instead of the usual 3) and generate 2 points of heat each.

ACQUISITION – These FRS parameters refer to processes that can enhance a Battlemech’s sensors and electronics.

Lock Speed – This FRS enhancement improves a Battlemech’s ability to lock onto targets moving at high speeds.

- Every twenty-two points of FRS memory applied grant a -1 to TNs when attacking a unit that has moved 18 or more hexes during its Movement Phase that turn. This bonus is halved against aerospace units.

Missile Lock Speed – This FRS enhancement can enable a ‘mech equipped with long-range missile weaponry to engage targets at closer ranges by operating the vehicle’s targeting system in tandem with the missile launchers’ arming protocols.

- Every sixteen units of FRS memory applied reduce the minimum range value of a Battlemech’s LRM (or MML, where applicable) weapons by 1 hex. In addition, the ‘mech receives a +1 bonus to all rolls on the Cluster Hits table when 50 units of FRS memory are applied.

ACQUISITION continued:

Radar Refresh Rate – By increasing the refresh rate of a Battlemech’s radar, this FRS enhancement enables a pilot to observe and react to enemy contacts more quickly.

- Every seventeen units of FRS memory applied increases the pilot’s initiative check by +1. In addition, every twenty-one units allow the ‘mech to reduce damage from bombs and strafing attacks by 2.

ECM Resistance – This FRS enhancement enables a small amount of passive ECCM in a Battlemech’s sensor equipment, making it less vulnerable to interference.

- Every twenty-four units of FRS memory applied effectively reduce the effect radius of enemy ECM emission by 1 hex for the purposes of determining its effect on the FRS-equipped ‘mech.

BOOST – These FRS parameters refer to processes that provide enhanced response from a jump-capable Battlemech’s jets.

Horizontal Thrust – This FRS enhancement enables more effective power management to a Battlemech’s jump jets, enabling it to cover longer distances when jumping.

- Every twenty-five units of FRS memory applied increase a jump-capable Battlemech’s jumping MP by 1. For the purposes of determining the vertical distance the ‘mech can clear, use its unmodified jumping MP.

Vertical Thrust – This FRS enhancement enables more effective power management to a Battlemech’s jump jets, enabling it to reach (or descend from) greater heights when jumping.

- Every twenty-five units of FRS memory applied increase a jump-capable Battlemech’s effective jumping MP by 1 for the purposes of calculating its ability to move up or down elevation levels safely.

BOOST continued:

Thrust Efficiency – Reduces jumping heat.

- Every sixteen units of FRS memory applied reduce the heat generated when the ‘mech jumps by 1. This FRS enhancement cannot reduce jumping heat below 3.

Jump Velocity – Increases TN of attackers targeting jumping ‘mech.

- Every twenty units of FRS memory applied increase the TN modifier applied to an attacker’s roll for targeting a jumping ‘mech by 1.

CONTROL – These FRS parameters refer to processes designed to enhance a Battlemech’s raw mechanical function.

Head Stability – Vital to the continued operation of a ‘mech, this FRS enhancement protects a pilot from harm in the event of damage to the vehicle’s head through weapons fire or other sudden impacts.

- Every fourteen units of FRS memory applied reduce the Consciousness Number (Classic Battletech Master Rules p.17) a pilot must meet or exceed whenever they suffer damage while piloting by one. In addition, at thirty-five points of FRS memory, the pilot is protected from the first two points of damage suffered in a battle from head hits or ammunition explosions, and they reduce the Target Number of any Piloting Skill Rolls to avoid damage from falling by one. At fifty units, these benefits are doubled.

Core Stability – This FRS enhancement manipulates a Battlemech’s entire system of myomers and actuators to help lower its center of gravity, ensuring that the machine becomes more difficult to overbalance due to sudden massive damage or making sharp turns on pavement.

- Every ten units of FRS memory applied increase the amount of damage a ‘mech can take in a turn before forcing a Piloting Skill Roll by 1. In addition, every fifteen units applied reduce the Target Number modifier to Piloting Skill Rolls for Skidding Movement by one. Finally, every twenty units applied provides a -1 TN modifier to Piloting Skill Rolls when a pilot’s ‘mech is kicked, pushed, or struck by a charge or Death From Above attack.

CONTROL continued:

Leg Stability – By micromanaging the performance of a Battlemech’s hip and lower leg actuators, this FRS enhancement enables a pilot to perform advanced maneuvers with more certainty of success.

- Every thirteen units of FRS memory applied provide a -1 TN modifier to Piloting Skill Rolls provoked by any of the conditions under the “Unit’s Actions”, with the exception of the “Special Case” entry (Classic Battletech Master Rules p.24).

Turning Ability – Through constant fine adjustments to the way a Battlemech’s gyro compensates for the vehicle’s inertia, this FRS enhancement can reduce the amount of effort necessary to change the Battlemech’s facing.

- Every eighteen units of FRS memory applied reduce the number of MP spent by the ‘mech when it makes a turn by one.

Well, fa/tg/uys, there you have it. Questions, comments and suggestions are welcome.

Bump.

I'll apply 18 FRS to Turning and get free turns forever as turning costs only 1 MP. Then I'll apply 325 FRS to MP gaining an additional 13 Walking MP. Suddenly my Assault Mech becomes a 16/24 Speed Demon. As long as I maintain a 17 movement I will not activate the Targeting Bonus from the Lock Speed Enhancement.

>>13608262

So you didn't even bother to read the thread.

This is off to a great start.

>>13608397

However, the language could be clearer in the turning section. I'll add "to a minimum of 1" to the doc.

Completely unnecessary. Just use the damn Omni-Mech rules for it. The only Modification necessary would be allowing the Engine/Gyros to be swapped out.

No need to re-invent the wheel.

>>13608525

Do you have anything to say about the thread's content?

>>13608569
I glanced over it and it looks like something I would not touch with a 10 foot pole. I just do not see the point, it looks like you are giving all Mechs a bunch of something for nothing. If asked how to do AC for Battletech, I would simply just do it as Omni-Mechs with addition of allowing Engine/Gyro swaps.

>>13608685

So you don't, beyond "I don't like it because I think it's stupid".

Thanks for your contribution, I guess.

The first significant thing is that if you've got five categories between 1 and 50 points, with a maximum of 442 points, it seems a bit excessive, with the ability to max-out four out of five of the attributes

Second, I'm getting the vibe that there are too many points to work with, in a JRPG'esque "If we add more zeroes it makes it look like it's more powerful" mindset. Dividing all these values by 5 would make things considerably easier to work with, and rounding all fractions.

The other element I noticed was in movement, that if you had X many points, it boosted your running speed. I think that you should do away with that and keep the speed mods focused on the walking modifiers. It will help to keep things simple and avoid any sort of rules squabbles over exactly what the 'mechs movement profile is, at any given time...

(To be continued as I read)

>>13608845

Take all the time you want, real thoughtful criticism is a godsend compared to the first few responses.

>>13608845
Edit: 442 points, maximum is 50 points in five categories, means that you have an excess.

maths is hard.

>>13608864

's okay. I can see your point here; 442 is basically an arbitrary number because that's the maximum you can acquire to use in AC4A. I thought keeping it as an uneven division would make people think a bit about which parameters they wanted to invest in.

>>13608823
At the risk of sounding pithy, but why would I use this over the standard rules? What advantage does this give? I am not seeing one. Battletech can already be pretty rules heavy, does adding this extra layer make it better or does it just add more crap to keep track of?

>Energy Capacity – This FRS adjustment improves a ‘mech’s ability to maintain elevated energy levels. A niche benefit, EN capacity improvement can ameliorate the dangerous strain advanced systems such as MASC or a Chameleon LPS can place on the machine’s parts.

This concerns me, as MASC exists as something that overworks the existing myomers. I think that the myomers, as well as the 'mechs internal structure, are the deciding factor in how quickly a 'mech actually moves, and adding extra juice to it through the FRS would act more like the Supercharger from Tacops. MASC operates more on the premise of "You're overstraining the myomers inside, causing them to tear themselves apart. Adding more juice wouldn't make it any less likely to happen.

>short-lived packets of intense energy that can be vented to make a ‘mech more heat-efficient

No idea how this could work. High energy particles that make a 'mech less hot? I'd recommend something more like the engine becoming more heat efficient and not producing heat while walking or running after you burn so many points.

>Arm Maneuverability – By improving the responsiveness of a Battlemech’s arm actuators, this FRS enhancement enables a pilot to make deadlier, more accurate punches and club strikes.

Might as well just say "Counts as AES Equipment in arms", I think.

>>13608926

The advantages are pretty self-explanatory, but this isn't meant to be an addition to the CBT wargame. It's essentially supposed to be an add-on for my own CBTRPG campaign, and I won't disagree with you that it makes things more rules-heavy. I just throught it was an interesting idea and wanted some feedback.

>>13608969

I'm not saying your critique of the flavor text is invalid, but I was hoping for more focus on the crunchy stuff. Do you have any thoughts about the rules aspects of those entries?

>Every twenty-two points of FRS memory applied grant a -1 to TNs when attacking a unit that has moved 18 or more hexes during its Movement Phase that turn. This bonus is halved against aerospace units.
I'd just say that it decreased movement modifiers by one, as with precision autocannon ammo

>Every twenty-four units of FRS memory applied effectively reduce the effect radius of enemy ECM emission by 1 hex for the purposes of determining its effect on the FRS-equipped ‘mech.

This should probably be revised, as I couldn't see how you could reduce the range of an opponent's ECM effectiveness. Instead, maybe have entry level effects being a 0-hex ECCM bubble around your own 'mech, so that you can continue to use things like Artemis FCS, but as the points go up, increase the bubble by one, as with artillery sizes.

>>13609017
From the crunch perspective it might work, but in the cases I'd presented above, crunch didn't seem enough to protect it from disparity with the fluff.

I mean, you can stat up an amazing and well-balanced lightsaber in Battletech, but a lightsaber goes against the established rules of the canon, no matter how well written.

I offered alternatives where possible

>>13609107

Hmm. I think your suggestion about Lock Speed has a lot of merit. As far as ECM resistance is concerned, my train of thought was that the ECCM would allow the unit to get closer to an ECM emitter without being adversely affected, rather than generating a little field around itself that blocks ECM. Isn't that already a function of using ECM suites for counter-jamming?

The last remaining concern is a pretty big one: Battle Value.

There are so many sliders, bonuses here an there, that it makes this equipment a real daunting task to calculate any sort of Battle Value calculations for.

>>13609164

Your point is well-taken. The flavor text is just as much of a work in progress as the rest of this stuff, so I'll try to take your suggestions to heart while I'm revising it.

>>13609189

I'm fully willing to acknowledge that, which is why I didn't think this would be a good idea for anything but CBTRPG. If someone suggested using this in a "serious" game of CBT I'd laugh in their face, and I'm the one who came up with it!

just why was the archer so very popular? maybe because i came into world of battletech through the games i just look at it and think "hmmmmm, its nothing special?" When you read over the fluff and the books they all jizz their collective pants over them

please /tg/ - show me the light on this issue

>>13607556
There's a lot of questions about the points themselves. Obviously, you give a (somewhat nonsensical) maximum, which forces you to buy large numbers of upgrades in each area and spread those upgrades to each section of the mech's performance almost equally.
This is already a bad idea, since many of the high-points upgrades (allowing the mech to mount more maximum armor, for example) are useless to one or more categories of 'mech. also, do you calculate a mech's speed from its new augmented weight (which is [Tons weight*speed]), or overtax the engine and frame (possibly using MASC rules)?
Further, under the RAW there's no way of telling >where< you can add that extra half-ton. Can I take the mod twice and add 16pt of armor to my Head location? Or do the normal location maximums still apply?

Acquisition: Largely overlaps with targcomps, for no weight or crits lost. 50 points is extremely easy, better than a targcomp in every way, and "costs" nothing under this system.

Boost: Useless to 80% of mechs, yet with the amount of points available, essentially required as a points sink. This allows any mech without jets to attain max points in every category.

>>13609164
>the ECCM would allow the unit to get closer to an ECM emitter without being adversely affected

Oh, I see. I understood it as meaning it somehow reduced the ECM bubbles of all opponents on the board by one, as though it reduced the effectiveness of the opponents' ECM.

You're saying it more along the lines of it has more resilience against ECM. In which case, that works so long as it's not needing C3 networking. Otherwise, it's kind of meaningless, as an ECM bubble doesn't need to be covering either 'mech in order to block an ECM link, but instead just needs to block the path of the ECM "beam" between the two linked units.

>>13609229
Control: In combination with Acquisition, modifying TNs for piloting rolls, and negating Movement modifers, you can now jump 6 hexes and attempt a DFA or kick with virtually no penalty if you fail, every turn, sinking all of your heat, while firing a standard weapons load each and every turn

Your system removes the only remaining advantage of shell-based weapons (superior damage/heat ratios) while providing no counterbalancing advantage.

With no balancing factors, this system is completely fucked. It is also complex, hard to read, provides no guidelines, and promotes a feckless and irritating style of play.

Cut the customization points to 50, make it available by installing a 1+tonne, 5+ crit device equivalent to an OP part, and allow more than one to be installed, then it begins to earn back some interesting, meaningful limits. Otherwise, this is pissing in the wind. Seriously consider some modification.

>>13609224

It's a pretty sturdy 'mech with good long-range firepower, for one thing. It got outpaced by heavier and more advanced designs as time went by, but the popularity of the design during its time was due to its effectiveness compared to units using similar technology. If you put an Archer next to a Vulture or a Viking, of course it looks mediocre. In the realm of level 1 rules, though, it's a pretty dang good 'mech.

And it's an unseen, and those often enjoy additional popularity.

>>13609224
>just why was the archer so very popular?

When 3025 was the norm and unseen were the kings of the tabletop, the Archer was the best fire-support unit, thanks to having twin LRM 20s and sufficient ammo to fire almost consecutively for most of the game.

It also garnered the benefits of indirect fire, which meant that you could keep it outside of LOS and rain fire down on your opponents from safety.

...in 3025 play, unseen were frequently the most effective units. You'll find that if you play 3025 games without them, as in the introbox, it feels like there are large gaps in the unit selection, like how heavies don't really feel all that much heavier than a medium, and that mediums don't feel nearly as maneuverable as they should be. That's because the original Battledroids didn't have any in-house designs. A smart idea by TPTB to simply license foreign designs that nobody had seen prior and bring them over to the west. This garnered them excellent artwork at a fraction of the price.

A fact that surprises most people is that Battledroids, Battletech's predecessor, actually was released to the US before Robotech aired on Television.

It was only with the 2nd edition that we started to see in-house designs, with the first ever Technical readouts book: 3025. However, those designs were mostly made to fill roles that the unseen left untouched, rather than act as star players like the Warhammer or Marauder.

>>13609224
The archer is a excellent saturation-fire mech, with high flexibility, good heat, excellent armor, and good range. It brackets well, and is an unholy terror in the hands of a good pilot. When you add indirect fire, Thunders, and LRM spotting to the equation, a single Archer and a Jenner can control half the board in 3-4 turns.
It's even effective in close combat, with a nasty punch and the ability to still land 10 more damage with the Mediums: and its run range is enough to compensate for the LRM's minimum range on open ground.

It's the elephant in the room whenever you design a support mech, especially a Heavy: you have to ask yourself "has the Archer already done this?" and generally it has. Likewise, the Treb, 'pult, and Shitworth are all considered "baby Archers" by most of the old hands.
For some bizzare reason, the Longbow is also considered an Assault-level Archer, although no reason really exists for this.

Also, Jamie Wolf flies one, which apparently makes it fucking magical.

>>13609355
...What am I supposed to want to unsee in that picture?

>>13609383
it's a pun. read the contents of the post.

>>13609229
>>13609245

I think you may be under the mistaken impression that each overreaching category is the only place you need to spend your points. Each seperate paramter has its own 1-50 scale, which means that 442 points could max eight out of twenty parameters. As far as the cost of applying these enhancements, that's a C-Bill amount I'm still working on. The idea is that this is something that will be very pricey and take a long time to apply, so a player might not be able to get access to this technology at all unless their character knew the right people and had a great lump of cash on hand to finance the retrofit.

Getting into particulars, do you have any thoughts on how this could be modified to be kinder to ballistic weapons?

The extra tonnage follows the normal construction rules (heh).

Anyway, on-topic, I think that requiring a "Human Plus" equivalent OP part that takes up a large number of crits - especially one as risky as MASC - would be an important first balancing factor. You want actually using these points to be a significant choice.

In my initial posts, I forgot to ask, but.. why the incredibly random 18-19 points for the high-utility upgrades instead of, say, 15 or 20? This adds complexity to the math for no real benefit in balance.

>>13609431
>that's a C-Bill amount I'm still working on

The C-bill value is much less likely to see use than the Battle Value system. That's going to be your main concern. C-bill value is hardly ever used to balance forces outside of high-crunch campaign missions and the RPG.

>>13609463

Right, which is why this is intended for use in the RPG, not the wargame.

>>13609431
>>The extra tonnage follows the normal construction rules
It specifically states that you can increase the maximum armor values beyond the mech's carrying capacity
Mechs have a limit, based on IS, that details exactly how much armor is the "maximum possible". These two rules are incompatible.
So what you're saying is, you can ignore 1/2 tonne of armor per enhancement as far as the 'Mech's max load goes? That's equivalent to allowing 1/2 tonne more of any type of equipment, and should be rolled into that enhancement or clarified.
If you want to up the Cb cost for the enhancement, I'd recommend forcing appropriate repairs at the end of every campaign turn; they mention similar things, in-fluff, being attempted with the Clint. It was overloaded in the R Arm, and constantly suffered stress fractures and non-crippling, but expensive critical damage that they had to repair once the missions were over; they got a rep as tantrumy hangar queens as a result.
Basically, force the players to repair appropriate systems every time they use the newtech - discount it from a full Combat damage repair, but don't go too easy. Used the new, twitchy heatsinks? They ran too hot, and slagged a few minor components. Ran 3 tonnes heavy again? You lost a point of Walking movement until you run Myomer and IS repairs.

More to follow

>>13609448

As far as the odd point values are concerned, I was really just trying to come up with a way for certain parameters to require larger investments while allowing for multiple upgrade levels. I was thinking in "divisible into 50" terms, although those values are certainly subject to change in newer revisions.

>>13609549

I can see your point, the language is too murky. Basically, Load Tolerance is supposed to afford extra tons, but not critical slots and not the ability to stack more armor than normal onto a location.

I do very much like your thoughts on forcing repairs, though.

>>13609372
>>13609355
>>13609274

thanks for the info fa/tg/uys!

what are the other 'unseen' mechs - imma go look em up, try and get my head around 2025 a bit more. I understand its a bit slower style of play, but i got dropped in at the joys of clan tech so havent really ever given it much of a look

>>13609633

I'll try to do this from memory. The Unseen include the following designs:

Stinger
Wasp
Valkyrie
Scorpion
Phoenix Hawk
Marauder
Warhammer
Ostsol
Ostscout
Ostroc
Battlemaster
Zeus
Griffin
Shadow Hawk
Wolverine
Rifleman
Locust
Goliath
Crusader
Thunderbolt
Archer
Grasshopper

Ballistic weapon's main balancing factors are
Positive:
Low to no heat.
Diverse ammo types allow for different mission profiles.
The LGauss, Gauss, and AC/2 series have unparalleled range, making snipers possible. On Clan machines, this advantage is largely wasted, between 12-point ER larges and 15-point ER Peepers with similar ranges.

Negative balancing factors:
If it hits hard, it has no range (with the limited exception of the Gauss). If it has range, it's weak.
Ammo is limited to 100 damage/tonne. Gauss is slightly more efficient, at 120/tonne (HAG is 80/t, Lgauss is still 120/t), and non-explosive. The rifles are very heavy and explosive to compensate.
Bulk and weight are astronomically higher than other, more efficient equipment: this has a sneaky side effect of making targeting computers even more expensive for the pilot.
Explosive ammunition.
Jamming, for Ultra and Rotary guns.
Larger number of crits, jamming, and ammo dependency all make it much more likely that a single TAC will disable a ballistic weapon: ammo hits are basically an instant mission kill against anything without CASE, or with an XL.

With energy weapons getting bonuses to targetting, additional sunk heat (even from movement: on a lot of Lights, movement heat is a significant limiting factor), and boosted output, this instantly relegates all non-Gauss ballistics to the shitheap, as their remaining advantages disappear.

>>13609708
Hey OP hows it going?

These are the unseen, I'll dump em

>>13609757

'sup Pole. Just getting my idea kicked around by some esteemed smar/tg/entlemen.

Thanks for posting the images. I'd do it myself, but that'd take a long time and it would be impolite to ignore all this critique.

>>13609815
dont feel too bad.... people like what they like, and if I know anything about fa/tg/uys change is the worst, I espouse it at times. I havnt read your post I just jumped into it the second i saw the link, continuing with more unseen

>>13609708

Not quite, but close. They recently got permission (and paid) to use many of them again. Harmony Gold are still fuckers, however, and pulled a bullshit sealed court order from the eighties forbidding anyone from using any of the Macross designs ever for anything (I'm not kidding). Coleman embezzeled the money that would have let Catalyst fight it, and Topps doesn't give a fuck.
>>I'll try to do this from memory. The Unseen include the following designs:

>>Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Marauder, Warhammer, Ostsol, Ostscout, Ostroc, Rifleman, Locust, Crusader, Thunderbolt, Archer.
Also, most LAMS.

Zeus and Grasshopper were never Unseen, although the rest that I removed from the list have only just come out of the status: Griffin, Etc.

Also, a handful of designs from TRO: 3055 (all Clanners) were designed by a company called Victor Musical Enterprises, and their copyright status remains dubious at the moment. Most were subsequently redesigned and made available again.

phew theres alot of em

>>13609742

This is all pretty self-explanatory stuff when it comes to how ballistic weapons work, but it's nice of you to lay it all out for the purposes of the discussion.

Since I'm not all that happy with the Firing Stability parameter, what are your thoughts on narrowing it down into a recoil reduction system to increase the range / accuracy / damage of ballistic weapons?

>>13609847

Hey, it would be cowardice to stamp my feet and never entertain the idea that I could be wrong. I'm just glad I'm getting some genuine interest; as long as I'm not an oversensitive douche about this I'm going to get some real help in making this something good. I don't want to be B^Uckley, for shit's sake.

>>13609927
indeed

Most of this is already in the game if you add quirks to mechs or use a pilot made with the RPG rules from a Time of War.

This just has more numbers. So if streamlined more it could be a way to use some of the more customization with out having to generate a RPG pilot for every unit, but right now it seems to easy to break like >>13608262 pointed out.

>>13609988

Did you miss the part where >>13608262 didn't even read that you can only put 50 points in each category?

I'll grant that this system is breakable at this point, but could you at least have the courtesy to take a serious look at it if you're going to chime in?

>>13610040
Nice Glaug pod, bro.

>>13609742
Suggested bonuses for Ballistics:

One of the major limiting factors for ballistics, particularly heavy ones, is range. Allowing improved Acquisition to add a hex or several of range to ballistics (as it calculates and projects trajectories more efficiently) would go a long way to making the beatsticks more interesting.

Specialty ammo allows for various special effects, but at the cost of half the ammo in the bin. Only Light (looses a little range for a lot of tonnage and space) and Standard autocannon can use Specialty ammo.
An improved feed mechanism, or other similar fluffing that allows 75% or even 100% loading - with an added possibility of jamming, perhaps - of specialty ammo makes Standards more attractive.

Some of the TacOps rules make MG's more interesting, adding utility for a much-loathed weapon

A bonus to Unjam rolls makes RACs and Ultras more attractive; if allowing the Rapid-fire rules under TacOps, lowering Jam rolls makes it much less suicidal.

Improved CASE - blowing all the Rear armor off the mech, but not completely destroying the torso - would be amazing, but horribly unbalancing. Even damaging the Torso affected down to 1 point of IS and no rear armor (with an additional crit?) would be helpful, and slightly less unbalancing.

Gauss is actually fairly balanced, and doesn't need attention; the boosts given to energy weapons are helpful.

>>13610054

0/10

>>13610037
chill with the negative wave man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQ

>>13610054
0/10, heres another for your effort

>>13610037
Turning a 2/3 into a 4/6 is still pretty broken.

And way to get defensive. Just take a look at the quirk system and what you get can get from pilot skills and try to make add those limits into your system.

For instance

Turning Ability –

- Every eighteen units of FRS memory applied reduce the number of MP spent by the ‘mech when it makes a turn by one.

This is broken as hell and I would rebalanced it to work more like the maneuvering ace pilot ability. Which would be more like for 18 points biped mechs gain the ability to side step like a quad mech and quad mechs reduce the mp needed to side step to 1. At 36 point biped mechs also reduce the mp needed for side stepping to 1.

>>13610058
>Improved CASE - blowing all the Rear armor off the mech, but not completely destroying the torso

That's called CASE II.

>>13609887
>>Since I'm not all that happy with the Firing Stability parameter, what are your thoughts on narrowing it down into a recoil reduction system to increase the range / accuracy / damage of ballistic weapons?

Range: yes.
Accuracy: good, but indistiguishable from other accuracy upgrades.
Damage: Fluffing it would be interesting, but it'd make the ammo even more dangerous to have on board. The suggestions I made above about rapid fire, unjamming, and larger specialty bins increase damage per gun (longer for a mission kill), but not per ton.
Could be interesting, but it needs something I'm not thinking of to make it "pop"

>>13610058

I fully agree with your thoughts on gauss weaponry here.

I think you're onto something with an option to reduce the danger of jamming. The CASE idea seems like a good one, too. Adding all this to critique.txt

alright thats all of them.... so what are we discussing again?

>>13610151

Ok, I do like your thoughts about the Turning Ability parameter, although if I go with that I'll probably rename it to Agility or something.

>>13610185

I'd give some thought to adding a bonus to critical hits or something, but that seems like a road I probably shouldn't go down especially since accuracy doesn't necessarily equal improved penetration.

>>13610248
>>adding a bonus to critical hits
Armor Piercing ammo already does this. It's limited by base damage of the gun: maybe count it as one category higher for the purpose of the roll.

>>13610248
I do like the idea behind what you're doing, just needs some balancing and less trying to jam AC attributes into places where you could modify a battletech attribute.

Another example

Kojima Particle Output – Adds one colling.

If you're fluffing the game in the AC world it works. If its still in the battletech universe it could just as easily be flufed as extra heatsinks built into the engine.

>>13610323

Heh. Funny you should say that, considering I already changed KP output to make it MORE fitting for Battletech...

>>13610282

That seems awfully situational, but then again I have a whole quartet of parameters that don't apply to most Battlemechs anyway so I'm not gonna write it off.

>>13610206

Sorry I missed this.

We're talking about how I don't think Battletech is complicated enough and want to NUMBERS, NUMBERS EVERYWHERE all over my CBTRPG players.

Jump Velocity – Increases TN of attackers targeting jumping ‘mech.

- Every twenty units of FRS memory applied increase the TN modifier applied to an attacker’s roll for targeting a jumping ‘mech by 1.

40 points in this gives you spiders with movement mods of 6's, or people who jump 3 hexes for a +4 mod.

I would recommend dropping it and just let your players mod jump distance. They can use that to make themselves harder to it.

>>13610413
so long as you introduce numbers with alot of char.....erm tables lots of tables!

Ok, since my neglect of ballistic weaponry in the inital alpha was such an egregious heresy (not even being snarky here, fuck year autocannons), here's an initial revision for Firing Stability:

Firing Stability – While ballistic weaponry is economical and generates little waste heat, a fatal flaw with these unruly beasts is that their power can make them difficult to aim at range. By feeding data from the Battlemech’s gyro into the targeting system, this FRS enhancement mitigates the unholy kick from machine guns and autocannons, improving the pilot’s chances of hitting the target at ranges which were previously unfeasible.

- Each 16 units of FRS memory applied add 1 hex to each range increment of a Battlemech’s ballistic weapons. Gauss weapons are not affected by this improvement. At 50 points of applied FRS memory, a ‘mech using armor-piercing autocannon ammunition can use this system to place shots with such accuracy that each class of autocannon reduces the negative Determining Critical Hits modifier for AP ammo by 1 (in other words, +0 for AC/20s, -1 for AC/10s, -2 for AC/5s and -3 for AC/2s). Additionally, AP ammo fired from this system can threaten even aerospace units, although the penalties are more severe than those against other targets (-2 for AC/20s, -3 for AC/10s, -4 for AC/5s and -5 for AC/2s).

>>13609224

The Archer is a surprising machine to many folks.

The original was a missile-equipped unit done right. Thick, thick armor, launchers that could stagger targets at great distances (dealing 20+ = piloting roll to stay up) and good endurance meant you could count on an Archer to contribute to any battle you put one in.

And it's one of the few designs that is reasonably effective in that old-school model even in later play, all the way up through the "modern" 3085 era. Of course, newer models of the Archer came along as well, including one of the most straightforward and effective second-generation designs in the -4M that basically said "OK, here's your Archer that was good? We took everything that'd make it better and added it. Here you go- now you hit with more missiles, even better armor, it doesn't overheat, and an ammo hit won't blow you to kingdom come anymore.".

It's one of those original designs that defined concepts of building a 'Mech for decades to come.

Energy Output – This FRS adjustment enables a Battlemech’s engine to pump out more power. This overcharging ability can help a ‘mech exceed the normal maximum speed its engine can provide.

- Every nineteen units of FRS memory applied add 1 to the Battlemech’s running MP. In addition, every twenty-five units applied add 1 to the Battlemech’s walking MP (recalculate the unit’s running MP accordingly; this benefit supersedes the previous running MP bonus).

Instead of just adding MP's and giving better gains to slow heavy units you should probably be adding to engine rating instead.

A 100 tonner needs an extra 100 engine rating for 1 walk mp where as a 20 tonner only needs 20 engine rating.

An extra mp for an assault mech should cost a lot more than an extra mp for a light.

>>13610519

I think you have a point, but I don't want to outright reduce the number of parameters to choose from since that would make it easier to max out the remainder. What do you think about turning it into an optional system that the pilot can elect to activate at the cost of suffering the same value as a penalty to their piloting skill rolls and / or attacks when they use it?

>>13610413
Though in the end, I've got to say to the OP that I get the gut feeling that while you may use this, it's not going to be something that is well received by the community as a whole, if only because it feels like you're slapping a customization system into a customization system.

I mean, Battletech gives you options to swap stuff out like ammo types, but this rules system is really a customization system unto itself.

Which is unfortunate. I mean, even Omnimech technology is usually just used for swapping between variants, and customization is rare (albeit less rare than with vanilla Battlemechs). I think the problem is that you're trying to put too much weight on a system that is already regarded by many minis gamers as "too complex". This homebrew system scares me off as it is, if only because there is little uniformity between how many points per "Upgrade", and how each kind of upgrade works. It seems like a system that would requiring LOTS of going back to the rulebook, even if you've already got the Battletech system memorized.

...and for existing players, that means a much longer game

>>13610695

I can appreciate what you're saying here. I'm not under any illusion that this system is ready for the big time in my OWN campaign, and I certainly wouldn't suggest using it in competitive play or casual "regular" CBT.

I just did this because I know that knowledgeable people hang around here and I thought I could get some of them to tell me where I could make improvements.

If someone else wanted to use this, that would be awesome, but I'm not going to tell anyone that they should.

>>13610659
And there should probably be something to stop someone for adding 10mp to a flea or locust.

>>13610692
That sounds a lot better or maybe something that lets them better control their jump path.

Normally you have to jump the shortest path. Maybe for every so many points you can jump 1 hex out from the shortest path.

This would let you jump around a large building or artificial increases your jump distance by 1 for a better movement mod (jump 5 hexes where you should normally jump 4).

>>13610823

There is, it's the fact that you'll only ever gain 2MP from that parameter.

Your adjustable jump trajectory idea is pretty interesting, though. I may make that an extra parameter and put into the list for more variety.

>>13610646

I should probably not in the interest of keeping people from abusing the grammar that the minimum range increases do not recalculate the weapon's ranges at medium, long and extreme range.

>>13610874
>here is, it's the fact that you'll only ever gain 2MP from that parameter.

2 mp for a 3/5 makes it a 5/8 moves it up a whole speed bracket.

2 mp for a 8/12 doesn't do all that much.

But if 2 mp for an assault cost something like 400 points it might be balanced but it would still be a damn good improvement.

>>13610990

That's a problem I'm still trying to puzzle out, truth be told. I was considering having each increment add a percentage of the original walking MP, but I wouldn't really know where to begin to ensure that the aforementioned +10 walking MP for light 'mechs wouldn't end up happening.

>>13611047
Only things I can think of would be to limited it to addend so much engine power but then you reach a point where if a unit weighs so much they will never get a speed increase.

Or making upgrades cost more for every extra mp. Some thing like 1 tuning point per engine point until you gain 1 mp then 2 tuning point per.

You would need 100 point for 1 more mp on an atlas and only 20 for a locust, but the 2nd mp for the locust would be 40 point, then 80 and so on.

Of course those number need still need balancing.

>>13611171

Hmm. That's not a bad idea, as least as a jumping off point. I'm really starting to fill up this notepad file.

I wonder what happened to that guy who was asking about ballistic weapons. I'm interested to see what he thinks of the proposed revision.

While we're on weapon-specific benefits, does anyone have any thoughts about Energy Weapon Adaptability? I don't think I'm all that happy with it.

>>13611239
Lumping all the weapons together seems awkward when dealing with damage. How does it work when you have a HPPC + capacitor, 2 medium VSPLs and an ER small laser.

Maybe change it to a range increase bonus or change it to tuning damage on a per weapon basis.

>>13611413

You're right that it could be simpler, but I think adding range might end up making laser weaponry too good. Maybe it could be something like an additional benefit if the lasers are linked into a weapon group?

>>13611413
Better idea! Kind of based off how PPC caps work.

First break it up into to categories, EN cap and EN charge.

For every 10 or so points you gain 1 EN cap or 1 EN charge. You gain you charge up until your cap per turn.

You can spend 1 charge point to up the damage of one energy weapon by 1 point of damage up to half its max damage.

So for 60 point you could get a EN cap of 5 and a EN charge of 1. Then every 5 turns you could do 15 damage with a PPC instead of the normal 10, or 11 damage every turn with the ability to bank some charge when you don't have a shot.

>>13611553

Ok, that's actually an excellent idea. It even fits into the idea of the name more neatly. Totally using that.

Random question but why are you using tac ops and the old master rules together?

>>13611239
>>I wonder what happened to that guy who was asking about ballistic weapons. I'm interested to see what he thinks of the proposed revision.

I went to the LGS to check on their Z-scale terraing, wound up buying an Ostscout and some infantry, since my paycheck came in. Also got some cheap fried chikkins.


On topic, I like the idea, makes them a little more menacing without going bonkers. It's always hard to balance ballistics mods as a category, since som many interesting options are already statted up.

>>13611784

Some of the stuff in TacOps is more current / specific than the material printed in the Master Rules, I guess. Is there something I should be concerned about?

>>13612054

That sounds like a pretty successful adventure, duder. Thanks for the kind words about the revision!

Wait I just re-read you post did you say fried chicken

DELICIOUS CHICKEN

>>13612271
The Master rules were replaced by Total Warfare.

Just weird that you are using the old base rules with the newer advanced rules.

Kind of like using a D&D 3.0 core rule book with a 3.5 DM guide and monster Manuel.

>>13612349

Ah, yeah, you have a point. I didn't notice all that much different between the MR and TW, but that probably just means I should look again.

Oh well, that's another thing to revise!

Looks like interest in this has waned a little, so let's just open the thread up for general Battletech discussion and I'll come back with some more serious revisions a little later on.

Is anyone active in a CBTRPG campaign right now? If so, what's your character's unit like? Currently, I'm rolling a Griffin alongside a Phoenix Hawk, a Hussar and a Grassshopper. Our last engagement was against a pair of Panthers and two Shadow Hawks while we were on assignment in a skirmish between houses Steiner and Kurita.

sage for weeaboo shit

>>13614406

I don't think you know what that word means...


Also, your sage seems to have failed.

>>13612401
There are some significant differences between the two versions. Mech combat is... mostly the same. However, there are a few differences here and there, like how some of the gear resolves (example: C3 networks don't need LOS between other C3 units, but can still be blocked by ECM if the bubble intersects the two), as well as minor changes to the system (Falling into water hexes, for example, will do half damage for hitting the surface of the water and each depth it has to fall therein)

The biggest changes, however, are with conventional forces, which have been made considerably more survivable than their predecessors, thanks to hit location tables that have more spread for vehicles, conventional infantry taking less damage from weapons not intended to fire at infantry swarms, and VTOLs not dying the minute you hit the rotors, just to name a few.