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    252 KB Outsider: The Calling 01/13/11(Thu)20:45 No.13511433  
    "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown"
    — H.P. Lovecraft

    The last Outsider thread went very well so lets have another one. Continuing work on one of /tg/'s latest projects. ( Previous Thread: http://tinyurl.com/6kflorf )

    Outsider is a game of forgotten gods and eldritch aberrations, of Lovecraftian horrors, and forbidden knowledge. It is a fanmade nWoD game where the players take the role of a once human being bound by fate or misfortune to the most vile entities from beyond the natural world. You take the role of the Outsiders, those who are tied to uncaring but infinitely powerful gods while even reality rejects the very fabric of their beings.

    I will detail what is in need of the most work and then add new contributions.

    The Google document compiling most of the current work: ( http://tinyurl.com/6cvyrpq )

    The IRC where the main collaborators are: ( #alientheoutsider on irc.thisisnotatrueending.com)
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)20:49 No.13511474
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    In need of work:

    Factions (Delusions, Fractures, Schisms): The name for the different groupings is still tentative as well as the number and characterizations of the actual groups themselves. The current model consists of:

    The Servants - You've been changed by forces greater than you could possibly concieve, now the only possible course of action is to do your best to serve It, or at least to do what you believe It wants. To do otherwise would be insane, if it were even possible.

    The Masters - They gave you great power, but asked nothing in return. Until you're told otherwise, the best plan is clearly to use your newfound power to your own benefit in this world, whether that's acquiring money or political position, or something simpler.

    The Rebels - Their biggest mistake was changing you. You've seen the promise they hold for people like you, and you reject it outright. Whether out of concern for humanity, or rage at the Thing that destroyed who you were, you'll fight Them till the ends of the Earth.

    The Deniers - You're still human. That's what's important. You've been infected with this disease, this curse, but it doesn't mean you have to embrace it. You deny it, and the power it would give you by seeking to remain as human as you can and trying your best to ignore that calling.

    The Dreamers - You've glimpsed something far greater than anything you could have concieved before you changed. You've seen worlds beyond our world and caught sight of the beauty and wonder they hold. You seek out these wonders, guard them from those not worthy and keep the balance between what you once called the "real" world and your new home.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)20:52 No.13511505
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    The list of rejections (quick, inherent, supernatural abilities usable only by those physically linked to outsiders) and rituals (longer, learned, powerful effects generated by those with special knowledge of the outer realms) is by no means comprehensive. The current types of rejections are as follows:

    Communion: Access to knowledge from outside the mortal realm.
    Mindscape: Power over the conscious minds of others.
    Dreamscape: Influencing dreams and have them influence reality.
    Hypergeometry: The warping of space and time through symbols and spells.
    Superposition: The observer influences what a given system will collapse into (Luck powers)
    Polymorphism: Control over one's physical form and that of others.
    Corruption: Disease & decay oriented.
    Violation: Alters the basic laws of physics.

    Rituals do not have subtypes and are much broader in the scope of what they can accomplish.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)20:54 No.13511515
    Add something along the lines of
    "The Wretched" Addicted to the taste of eldritch power you got, you will not stop until you can acquire power to surpass your patron unspeakable one.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)20:55 No.13511533
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    Not sure if this is even the best idea but in the last thread the idea was raised that each deity have a specific subset of rejection types that they grant bonuses in to their kin. The list still needs work, but the best list that was devised seemed to be as follows:
    Associations list (V 0.1.3):
    ----------Communion, Dreamscape, Corruption
    ----------Communion, Superposition, Hypergeometry
    ----------Polymorphism, Corruption, Violation
    ----------Mindscape, Violation, Dreamscape
    ----------Mindscape, Hypergeometry, Polymorphism
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)21:02 No.13511587
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    And now I will give a brief fluff depiction of each class of rejections and what kind of abilities might be expected from them:

    As an outsider, though you are a rare being you are never truly alone. The knowledge of all of those that came before you is held within the mind of your patron god and the ability to converse with them or an avatar of their will is always a powerful asset. Through the powers of communion an outsider may call upon the wisdom of their own kin and, in rare cases, perhaps even from their own progenitors, be they sleeping, machinating, or standing vigilant in the realms beyond.

    Sample powers associated:
    >Speak to an individual telepathically
    >Gain insight into reading or speaking a long dead language
    >Channel the wisdom of another outsider
    >Receive a gift of power from your other worldly gods
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)21:06 No.13511618
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    The flesh is temporal and wounds may heal, but scars upon the mind are permanent and lasting. Working your unnatural powers over the fragile minds of mortals and immortals alike is a useful tool with many applications. Even the most hardened of psyches will crumble eventually before the unknowable horrors of the alien mind.

    Sample powers associated:
    >Psychically assault an enemy's mind
    >Induce fear, rage, or even insanity in others
    >Hypnotize or command weak willed individuals
    >Extract information or memories from others
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)21:12 No.13511659
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    The world of dreams and the unconscious is no more an illusion than the waking world itself is. The minds of every living thing wander its vast landscape all the time without even realizing it. By mastering this land and its untapped resources you can strike at the heart of those who have not and remake the malleable world for your own purposes.

    Sample powers associated:
    >Travel through the Dreamlands
    >Banish or call an individual from the Dreamlands
    >See and manipulate the dreams of sleepers
    >Create a pocket dimension of Dreamland
    >Possess the body of a sleeper
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)21:16 No.13511702
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    Non-Euclidean geometries are a fascinating study, but especially so when applied to the fabric of the universe. The universe folds and curves back on itself and with a little nudge, the thin boundaries between other dimensions can be made to give way. Draw forth the power of the outer realms, or step into them yourself to seek new and greater power.

    Sample powers associated:
    >Step through extra-dimensional space to avoid harm and travel
    >Channel energies from other dimensions into the mortal world
    >Redirect projectiles through other dimensions to new targets
    >Step beyond the mortal realms and travel outside
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)21:36 No.13511931
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    The truth of the universe is that we as individuals are merely fragments of greater pan dimensional wholes. Even within our own lives, we are complete collection of moments words on the pages of the annals of time and space, able to be read by an outsider's perspective as easily as any past event. Use you connection to the outside to peer through time and space.

    Sample powers associated:
    >Gain a brief glimpse of the future
    >Look into the ancient past
    >Cause a brief time displacement of yourself or others
    >Channel the mind or form of one of your countless otherselves
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)21:43 No.13512003
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    The flesh is all knowing, and infinitely mutable. Able to adapt to even the harshest of conditions and situations, those who understand the origins and true nature of the flesh can craft the hardest shield or the greatest weapon from the endless pallet of flesh. You are the master of life and death.

    Sample powers associated:
    >Grant life to that which once lived or even never did that they may serve you
    >Transform yourself into a twisted killing machine or imitate another
    >Mutate others into horrible husks of their former selves
    >Consume and absorb the flesh of others to restore your own
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)21:49 No.13512077
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    The mortal world was not made for the presence of an outsider, so many outsiders bring their own taint to the world itself. Either through destroying the natural sanctity of the world itself or spreading the touch of decay to its residents, eventual all will be made suitable for your inhabiting. You bring your taint to a world which would turn you away, and remake it in your image.

    Sample powers associated:
    >Protect a location by making it unfriendly to non-outsiders
    >Inflict debilitating and wasting supernatural diseases upon others
    >Slowly turn a mortal into an outsider, whether mindless or subservient
    >Purify wounds of outsiders by spreading them to the natural world or others
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)21:55 No.13512149
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    The world exists by a concrete set of rules, but even these basic truth do not stand in the presence of outsiders. What one might understand of physical laws means nothing when an outsider can shatter them and refit them to their own purposes. As a partly higher dimensional being you can manipulate the world in inconceivable ways, bending and breaking conventional wisdom in your wake.

    Sample powers associated:
    >Travel through irregular angles, avoiding and confounding foes
    >Alter the velocity of people and objects and their directions
    >Increase or decrease your own mass drastically
    >Slow down or speed up time in a small region
    >Twist and contort an individual through physical forces
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:11 No.13512325
    Sounds interesting, do go on.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:19 No.13512416
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    That's all I really have new to add. I'm not that knowledgeable of actual nWoD crunch so I'm more of a fluff man. I can repost the major fluff from previous threads if you like though.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:21 No.13512438

    Sure, this sounds fun (at least on paper), wonder how it would be in a real game.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:29 No.13512517
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    Very well then, I'll just start reposting some random fluff. The crunch is still in a state of flux and needs a good amount of work.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:30 No.13512532
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    Starspawned Savants - CTHULHU

    “That is not dead which can eternal lie
    And with strange aeons even death may die.”

    -The Necronomicon

    In his house in R’lyeh, dead Cthulhu lies dreaming. He is the high priest of Azathoth, of Yog-Sothoth and of Shub-Niggurath. Mother Hydra and Father Dagon are his apostles, and the Deep Ones and Starspawn are his servants. Though he is a lower order of being than the Elder Gods, his power and influence over the people of Earth rivals even their vast potency. His is a realm of peril, where even such basic concepts as gravity and the behavior of angles can no longer be relied upon. The Starspawned Savants have not only looked upon this realm and lived, but now they serve its master.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:31 No.13512549
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    The chosen of Cthulhu are unified by an event which they know as the Calling. Dead Cthulhu whispers into the dreams of the Called, telling them stories of the time before the Earth was a plaything of humanity. He tells them of the finding of the Third Planet, of the war with the Old Ones, of the sinking of the great city of R’lyeh, and of the secrets of time and space. Above all, his chosen feel a pull, as of something tugging at their innards, telling them to take ship to the one spot in the sea which is furthest from any land. Those who make this pilgrimage come upon strange islands of worked stone, once the most commanding pinnacles of R’lyeh. At their center is a ziggurat surmounted by a single enormous door which seems simultaneously horizontal and vertical. None speak of what lies beyond that door, but those who open it come fully into their own as Starspawned Savants.

    The Wakeners, as they are sometimes called, are a motley lot. Most often they hail from less “advanced” places, whose people are more connected to the primal roots of humanity than the decadent thing it is today. Still, any human is potentially susceptible, and a few corporate presidents and prominent politicians wear pendants in the shape of a squid-like head behind their ties. Those who hear the Call tend to be mentally sensitive in some way; artists, scholars and story tellers are common, as are minor psychics or even psychologists. Despite their disparity, they all share two unifying features; the Calling, and their compulsion to see Cthulhu awaken and R’lyeh rise from the depths.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:32 No.13512562
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    In terms of personality, the Starspawned tend to be charismatic and vigorous. They are in more ways than one the priests of an ancient religion, and they comport themselves accordingly. Not for them a sandwich board and a soapbox, they seek positions of power and use them to turn hearts and minds to their advantage, whether that position be captaincy of a school football team or the respect paid to a wandering Voodoo houngan. They are also intelligent, and an intuitive grasp of geometry or physics is not uncommon among them.

    The powers of the Starspawned are strange, and by the standards of Outsiders rather subtle. Having been to a place where the laws of three petty dimensions do not apply, they gain an understanding of how to alter the “shape” of things using certain formulae which describe imperceptible but quite real facets of existence. With a sketched symbol or a graven mark they can bend time and stretch or compress space. Though to onlookers they may seem to dodge a bullet, it is only because they are standing five feet left of where their image says they should be. Though they seem to throw fire in the faces of their enemies, they are only rubbing out the little smudge in space that keeps their opponent distant from a furnace.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:34 No.13512575
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    The truly terrifying thing about them, however, is that the Calling never stops. In fact, as a Starspawned Savant becomes more potent, their dreams become more and more terrible, riddled with prophecy and dread secrets that even they can scarcely hope to comprehend. Some break under the pressure and commit suicide or are shunted out of reality, while others take the Oaths of Dagon and accept the loss of their powers in exchange for a repellent new immortal form. Those who hold up guide others who hear the Call, but are perhaps not strong enough to witness the glory of R’lyeh firsthand. With the aid of these beings they work their schemes, hoping to bring the stars into alignment so that their patron may render unto them their due reward.

    Quiescence 10: Completely normal
    Quiescence 05: Enlarged head, grayish green skin, tentacle like protrusions on the face, wing stumps on the back.
    Quiescence 00: Mini Cthulhu

    Concepts: Obsessive Mathematician, Cunning Evangelist, Twisted Sculptor, Mad Sailor

    Aliases: Drowned Priests, Krakens, Dreamers of the Depths, Stargazers
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:35 No.13512586
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    Courtiers of the Dark Pharaoh - “I don’t know if they truly understand the Power of the God they worship. Or the consequences.”

    Scions of the Yellow Sign – “Madness for its own sake is all well and good, but they take it to an unnecessary level.”

    Shepherds of the Silver Key – “Some of them would have us believe that our master is a facet of theirs. Perhaps they require a refresher in hypergeometry.”

    Young of the Thousand – “While they do have their strengths, their master and ours are at cross purposes. Only one of us can rule this world.”

    Vampires – “Charismatic and deadly, much like us. If they weren’t so wrapped up in pretending to be alive, they might make useful servants.”

    Werewolves – “Though they’re bestial and annoying, they at least keep the incorporeals at bay. That anti-phasing sigil is a real pain to redraw every time a ghost gets in.”

    Mages – “I wish I knew how they pulled off some of those tricks. Not that they’ll tell me without a bit of a nudge. Maybe putting one in two places at once will do it.”
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:36 No.13512603
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    [Shepherds/Keepers] of the Silver Key – YOG-SOTHOTH

    “You would not flee like a child from a scene disliked to a dream beloved, but would plunge like a man into that last and inmost of secrets which lies behind all secrets and dreams.

    What you wish, I have found good.”

    -Yog-Sothoth to Randolph Carter, sixth human Shepherd of the Silver Key

    There are worlds behind worlds behind worlds in the roiling chaos which we know as the universe. Some claim to have seen their truest depths; the peril and majesty of the Dreamlands, the twisting madness of Dread Carcosa. Yet these are not the truest depths of reality. Beyond and behind all things lie beings of such incomprehensible properties that their intersections with each other and with the dimensions of “reality” create everything we know or believe to exist. Chief among these beings is Yog-Sothoth, and on Earth the facets of his being are known as the Shepherds of the Silver Key.

    Those who are part of the whole that is Yog-Sothoth tend to share certain traits in common. Most often they are avid pursuers of knowledge. Where another might balk at opening a haunted tomb, a Shepherd will pry it open two-handed and what’s more bring a video camera. Where another might stay awake all night attempting to work around a difficult equation, an Encompasser will find a novel way to devour it in an hour and sit down with a good book for desert. Their minds are expansive, slippery, and more than anything else, hungry.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:37 No.13512618
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    It is this mental hunger which leads them to unlocking the secrets of their being. Some of them make mathematical breakthroughs which lead them to surmise the existence of places beyond places, others visit places so very unlike Earth in dreams and wake clutching evidence of their travels, while still others paint or write of vistas so clear in their minds that they cannot but be real. Shortly after such experiences, they will come into possession of a Silver Key. No two have ever had exactly the same story; some were family heirlooms while others were simply found. Whatever the case, the visionary instinctively bears the key to a place of power where the planes of reality intersect, and unlock a Gate to the very presence and being of their patron, master and self, Yog-Sothoth.

    When they arrive, the newly-minted Shepherds are granted pieces of wisdom that would blast lesser minds. They hear the tales of the gods of their world, of the physics sufficiently advanced to be magic, and most importantly, of their other selves. The greatest revelation granted by a greater whole which exists beyond it. Yog-Sothoth is one such being, and where the planes of Yog-Sothoth is the realization that all beings in the universe of three dimensions are fractions of time and space intersect with he and his kin, they create lines and polygons which in our reality are beings and worlds. What’s more, as all parts of the super-being are equally real, so are all its facets equally real throughout time and space. And with the proper symbols, these beings can be seen, spoken to…even summoned.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:39 No.13512637
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    The powers of the Shepherds allow them to pull themselves through time and space along the trajectories between themselves and the other facets of their being. They can hop forward and back short distances in time or any direction in space, and moving back and forth between familiar intersections is as natural to them as breathing. Arguably more potent, however, is their access to the minds of other beings. Yog-Sothoth is the chief of the super-beings, and his fragments are invariably creatures of great mental fortitude. Thus through communion with his other selves, an Encompasser has access to virtually any knowledge. Those who achieve sufficient levels of potency can project their minds into the bodies of their other selves from across the gulfs of time and space, or even call their soul-brothers bodily into being on Earth (This can be particularly devastating if the caller is a student of prehistory. The most learned and cunning tyrannosaurus is still a tyrannosaurus.). Mysteriously, though, the Silver Key which led them to their powers deserts them after they come into their own. Theories abound on this phenomenon; some say the Silver Key is a parallel super-being which serves Yog-Sathoth, others that each is unique and is consumed by the effort of sending a mortal bodily beyond the bounds of existence. In the end, it matters little.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:40 No.13512649
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    Of all the Elder Gods, Yog-Sothoth is unique in that he holds what could almost be classified as a certain paternal pride in humanity. Of all the species which have sprung from his being, humans have furnished the most Shepherds. Consequently his agents attempt to bring greater knowledge to their fellow humans that they may one day fully join all of Earth with the whole of Yog-Sothoth. Of course, some take issue with the idea of joining a single massive oversoul, while others simply cannot hold under the mental strain of the knowledge required. Regardless, the Shepherds press on, for their flock must be led.

    Quiescence 10: Slightly odd gait
    Quiescence 05: Taller than an average human, legs are replaced by tentacles but can be disguised, extra mouths and faces begin to appear on some parts of the body
    Quiescence 00: A long massive horror, invisible unless exposed to silver, with many faces and legs, also have an incorporeal form of glowing bubbles of light similar to Yog Sothoth's, mind begins to partly overlap his.

    Concepts: Archaeologists/Tomb Robber, Librarian, Occultist, Explorer

    Aliases: Openers of the Gate, Argent Guides, Those Who Unbar the Way, Those Beyond
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:41 No.13512666
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    Courtiers of the Dark Pharaoh - “They are foolish to put their faith in such a capricious and malevolent God. Yog-Sothoth knows no such weakness.”

    Scions of the Yellow Sign – “Knowledge they may bring, but it is twisted and corrupted. Lend them not your ear.”

    Starspawned Savants – “Some of them grasp the edges of the truth that is Yog-Sothoth. They have their uses, as will their master if he ever awakens.”

    Young of the Thousand – “Enemies of knowledge and advancement who must be undone. Fortunately, many of us know a trick or two for them.”

    Vampires – “What their existence implies for the super-beings as we know them is unknown, but it is known that they are a force of stagnation worthy of undoing.”

    Werewolves – “Little better than the Young in their bestiality. Let them perish together.”

    Mages – “That beings so potent should not be facets of Yog-Sothoth is puzzling. They merit much further investigation.”
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:43 No.13512683
    >>13512586 "two places at once"

    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:43 No.13512687
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    Young of the Thousand – SHUB-NIGGURATH

    "Ia! Shub-Niggurath! The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young!"
    -Necronomicon, Shub-Niggurath.

    Lives are transient, but Life is tenacious. Once the seed of life has sprout it is nearly impossible to completely and permanently eradicate it. A catastrophe may serve as nothing but a pruning before the spreading wave of biological wonders and horrors that engulf a world. And every seed of a world spread from another world where life has blossomed. But the first seed was sewn from the womb of the being known only as god is may never be truly known, but in the past he has been idolized by mortal and immortal alike under the name of the Black Goat, the lord of the woods. A fertility god, his sons and daughters have risen from rituals involving sacrifice and rebirth, twisting fragile mortal beings into brutal and feral creatures not known on this earth. These beings, a cacophony of horns, tendrils, jaws, and hooves were the first born of the unholy union of man and being of the Outer Realms. From these first thousands, birthed at the dark beginnings of humanity, more have been born generation to generation; each slowly in turn coming aware his or her true nature and the terror or power that comes with it.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:45 No.13512696
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    These beings are the Young of the Thousand, carrying the blood of an Outer God, sharing a heritage barely reconcilable with their mortal forms. Many never even learn their true nature, spreading on their bloodline to a new generation and swelling the number of carriers. Those that do come aware may not be able to come to terms with their inhuman nature and what it means for mankind, but a rare few embrace their ancient father and are showered in his blessings.

    The Young of the Thousand are poised in a very interesting position in the cosmos, for they are numerous and their numbers are ever growing, but the will of their progenitor is as foreign to them as to any other observer. Shub-Niggurath does not make his presence well known in this realm, though the marks of his passage are numerous. The most common interpretation by his young is that he seeks life as its own end, continuously seeking to spread and grow and develop, consuming worlds in raw biological evolution.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:46 No.13512706
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    While none of the creatures associated with the Outer Gods can be said to have a stable corporeal form, few take to change as readily as one of the thousand. Their complex genetic sequence contains a billion billion adaptations from thousands of evolutionary paths from just as many alien worlds. Where as other Outsiders might be able to support one or two greater mutations without fear of loosing their identity a Young of the Thousand can do so indefinitely. In fact the most powerful representatives of this Sect will appear to be an alien, but 'oh, so frighteningly' natural mass of disparate body parts. But if you were to take a scalpel to one of them, you would find at it's core a very human form, or whatever the Outsider's original form was.

    While literally anyone has the potential to ascend to the ranks of the Young, the most likely aren't those who we consider to have deep connection to nature, but those who take an immense joy in being alive or from those who indulge their baser instincts.

    Quiescence 10: Prominent canines, arms somewhat longer in proportion to the body.
    Quiescence 05: Arms are now tentacles, additional mouths appear at random places on the body. Goat like legs.
    Quiescence 00: Dark Young

    Concepts: Survivor, Adrenaline Junkie, Serial Rapist/Murderer

    Aliases: Dark Young, Goatspawn, The Blessed, Tree That Walks
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:47 No.13512718
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    Courtiers of the Dark Pharaoh - “They play at politics and schemes, while the world turns regardless. Shub-Niggurath has no need of such games.”

    Scions of the Yellow Sign – “Madness is but another challenge that leads to progress. And we shall always rise to the challenge.”

    Starspawned Savants – “Their nature is foreign to this realm. Our distant cousins, they will learn to respect their forefather or perish.”

    Shepherds of the Silver Key - "Let them quarrel over dreams and time. They do not concern matters of the flesh."

    Vampires – “They are death and anathema to life. Their existence we can not abide.”

    Werewolves – “A wondrous show of the might of nature and the chosen of the all-father. They are as brothers.”

    Mages – “A few tricks cannot stall progress. They will be consumed and assimilated as any other mortals.”
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:49 No.13512736
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    Scions of the Yellow Sign – HASTUR

    "There is a whole secret cult of evil men (a man of your mystical erudition will understand me when I link them with Hastur and the Yellow Sign) devoted to the purpose of tracking [the servants of the outer gods] down and injuring them on behalf of the monstrous powers from other dimensions."
    -The Whisperer in the Dark

    Long ago there was an ancient kingdom of Carcosa. The people lived in a magnificent age of decadence and frivolity and wanted for nothing. But such ordered lives without torment and toil cannot last, and here the first avatar of The Unspeakable One walked among man. He is known as the king in yellow, and in his wake madness and insanity spread without end. In his masked but unmasked form he made known to the denizens of Carcosa a great truth that no mortal mind can comprehend. The entire city was consumed in the ensuing calamity, utterly destroyed by its own residents, and was never heard from again, stricken from all the history books but for a few dark tomes kept in forbidden collections in guarded libraries.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:50 No.13512747
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    Such is the legacy of the entity known as Hastur. He is also called He Who Is Not To Be Named, for his presence arises seemingly at random, sparked often merely from recalling his existence. Tales abound of plays remembering forgotten Carcosa causing riots and murders, or of merely speaking his name with reckless abandon leading to minor outbreaks of delirium. His powers are not of the physical world, but of the mind, but are no less dangerous than any tangible threat. As such, he is whispered in hushed tones as being a god of madness and insanity, though this is not his true nature.

    A very rare few, who are not utterly destroyed by the revelations of the Elder God realize that he is in fact a god of truths far beyond the comprehension of man. However, to know these truths is to lose your very ties to the human race, for they are short sighted and cannot understand the true workings of the universe at large. These rare learned Scions are often scholars of the occult who have sought such dark and terrible secrets for years, for only men such as these would not have their resolve shattered upon learning of His existence. They often adorn themselves in the traditional robes of yellow, reminiscent of the first avatar of their patron, and his works of spreading the great truths of the many realms.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:51 No.13512752
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    Scions have the uncanny ability to twist and bend truth to their own ends. Who but those who know the whole story can use it to their own advantage? They are masters at just what needs to be said to calm an enraged temper or to fan the flames into a self destructive homicidal rage that could leave entire communities scarred for the remainder of written history. Not even the fabric of reality is safe from their touch and they delight in reshaping it to their whim. For after all truth is in the eye of the beholder.

    While Scions are most often associated with actors, anyone who makes a living by expressing his own truth could just as easily be one. Journalists witnessing the depths of human depravity, politicians swindling the masses, the artists depicting infernal landscapes all could attract the attention of the King in Yellow.

    Quiescence 10:Blind, able to sense surroundings out to 25 feet
    Quiescence 05: waxy, melted face, eyes are always closed and nose is sunken, slight aura of panic surrounds you
    Quiescence 00: No eyes, no nose, just a mouth under a hood that looks like a mask. Rest of body is barely corporeal, long cloak of tattered golden color flows behind you. Any spoken words are in an ancient tongue that is harmful to non-outsiders.

    Concepts: Actor, Politician, Journalist

    Aliases: Inheritors of Carcosa, Golden Thespians, Playwrights of Aeons, Phantoms of Truth
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:52 No.13512772
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    Courtiers of the Dark Pharaoh - “They have no appreciation for the beautiful madness that is Hastur. They seek only power and domination. They’re dangerous.”

    Young of the Thousand - "They are but pawns in a cosmological game of which they do not even know the rules. Sad, really."

    Starspawned Savants – “They herald a message that mankind is not ready to receive. But we shall help to prepare them.”

    Shepherds of the Silver Key - "The realm of the mind is where all true power lies. We must respect those who protect its sacred gates."

    Vampires – “They carry a part of the great truth in themselves, making use of powers they do not understand. Impotent fools is what they are.”

    Werewolves – “A verdant force, they are no concern to those who care not for matter of the physical world.”

    Mages – “They disrespect the truth, twisting its nature and bending it. They know of it but forsake, choosing to abuse it.”
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:53 No.13512780
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    Courtiers of the Black Pharaoh - NYARLATHOTEP

    "To Nyarlathotep, Mighty Messenger, must all things be told. And He shall put on the semblance of men, the waxen mask and the robe that hides, and come down from the world of Seven Suns to mock... (Nyarl)athotep, Great Messenger, bringer of strange joy to Yuggoth through the void, Father of the Million Favoured Ones, Stalker among... "
    Extracts from a Mi-Go/Human ritual

    From the frozen surface of Yuggoth to the Pyramids of Ancient Khem, from the financial heart of the United States of America to the Mountain of Kadath in the Cold Wastes, there is nowhere that Nyarlathotep has not walked. He is the Voice and Soul of Azathoth, the mindless Demon Sultan that bubbles and festers in nuclear ignorance. He is the only one of the Outer Gods who apparently takes a real interest in mankind, though it is not a benevolent one. Nyarlathotep finds great joy in toying with mankind, encouraging the degradation and decay of humanity and leading us in an endless and incomprehensible game.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:54 No.13512793
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    Nyarlathotep has no one form, existing at any one time as any one of innumerable Masks. In China, an ancient cult follows the Bloated Woman, a horrendous mass of flesh disguised behind a fan. In Kenya, the Bloody Tongue, a titanic horror, rules over a group of outcast tribes and the Black Wind blows down yearly to devastate the landscape. In New York, an occult criminal syndicate is run by an apparently immortal sorcerer working towards some unknown aim. In Sweden, at the heart of an international conspiracy, a book of terrible lore provides exactly what its readers need, at terrible cost. And from ancient Khem to modern day Egypt, the Black Pharaoh looms like a shadow out of time.

    Nyarlathotep's schemes and plans necessitate the use of innumerable actors and puppets; His servants are almost as numerous as his Masks. Foremost among his agents on Earth are Outsiders born into or fallen into his service. Human sorcerers, hungry for power, trade away their humanity for just a hint of Nyarlathotep's knowledge and wisdom. A child born at exactly the right time in exactly the right place grew up oddly, with eyes that speak of experience far beyond his years. An eccentric, though genius, mathematician unlocks a medieval riddle which reveals a formula; a formula which, when solved opens his mind to secrets greater than he could ever have possibly comprehended. These Outsiders are generally great leaders and politicians, best placed to carry out their manipulations.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:55 No.13512804
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    The Favoured Ones' greatest strength is in their often close connection they have with their Father. They have the ability to call upon Him to ask for his wisdom and advice. Where the Outsiders of other Gods have to rely on the vague interpretations of cultists of prophecy and dreams, the Favoured Ones will often receive direct orders. Because of this connection, Outsiders of Nyarlathotep are less likely to turn against their master and Father. The fact that He is more likely to punish failure than the other, uncaring Gods. Nyarlathotep also grants his children powers to lie and persuade others, even outside of their cults.

    Quiescence 10: Have a single black mark hidden on the body somewhere symbolizing bond to the pharaoh
    Quiescence 05: Become gaunt in facial appearance, hair begins to resemble tentacles under scrutiny, skin color darkens to a shade of gray
    Quiescence 00: Become a large writhing mass of tentacles with a single mask floating within from which your senses emanate, anything you consume adds mass to your 'body'

    Concepts: Councilor, Con-artist,

    Aliases: The Million Favoured Ones, Mask Bearers, Prophets of Chaos, Hunters in the Dark, The Sworn
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)22:57 No.13512825
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    Scions of the Yellow Sign - "They serve an idea they can barely comprehend, let alone understand the consequences of."

    Starspawned Savants - "Their devotion to the hibernating priest of an alien race is quaint, though misguided. Led along the right paths, they could prove useful."

    Shepherds of the Silver Key - "They certainly have knowledge and undeniable power, but for all their visions of the future, they have no appreciation of the depths of what it truly holds."

    Young of the Thousand - "Primitives driven mostly by animalistic urges and lusts. Useful tools. Nothing more."

    Vampires - "Pitiful wretches. So desperate for control and so afraid of what comes after that they spend eternity playing politics in a city or two while the world spins towards destruction."

    Werewolves - "They have some knowledge of their spirits at least, but they can mostly be dismissed."

    Mages - "Interesting. They think themselves the masters because even they cannot see their own strings. We all dance to Nyarlathotep's tune, they simply dance a little higher and faster."
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:01 No.13512860
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    And that is the compiled fluff for the five major heritages of outsiders.

    I might also mention what Quiescence and Mythos are. Quiescence is your mortality, or rather your maintained appearance of mortality and Mythos is the power stat of this game.


    An Outsider's Power stat is Mythos. This represents how in tune with the alien side of his personality the Outsider is. Embrace your alien side and you gain more and more power.

    Quiescence is an Outsider's Morality. It reflects how human/real the Outsider is.

    Displacement is the gap between Quiescence and Mythos. If an Outsider's Mythos is higher than Quiesence, then he begin to suffer penalties as reality begins to reject him. These are both mechanical penalties and storyteller fiat penalties.

    7 is the default starting value for morality stats. Any normal person (and other supernaturals) would have Quiescence 10. It'll be trying to convince reality that you're not an aberration.So Outsiders should start at 7, to start with they aren't normal at all. They have to work to undo the damage they've already done.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:03 No.13512892
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    Though it's a bit late, here's the intro:


    “I know always that I am an outsider; a stranger in this century and among those who are still men.”
    -HPL, The Outsider

    There are things in this universe which are not meant for human eyes. There are monsters in the shadows of the world, humans just cattle, food, that sustains their cursed existence. But what of the shadows beyond reality, what beings might lurk there? Creatures of forms so sublime and terrible that would make men gouge out their own eyes as a sign of devotion. Intellects so vast that to absorb even a fraction of their knowledge would drive a man insane. Might that would extinguish stars and rearrange planets. Beings that are everything that is not. Now imagine that someone or something attracts their attention, causing the cosmos itself to recoil from the contact. Sometimes a crack forms, from which the outside seeps into the fabric of creation and when such a conduit has a will of it's own an Outsider is born.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:05 No.13512914
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    Outsider: The Calling is a game about these aberrations, trying to reclaim or just survive in a universe that rejected them long ago. They search the hidden and forgotten corners of the world for hidden lore that might shed light on their condition. Form cults that they might help them remake the world in their dark masters’ image. Some just exploit their 'gifts' to achieve dominance over those they deem inferior. Or they try to reject their own heritage and hide away from curious eyes that just won't leave them alone. Regardless of whether they choose to heed their master's Calling their very nature alters the universe as we know it and nothing will be the same again.

    Outsiders have come to their inhuman perspectives in a variety of ways. Some may have sought out this power, whether in forbidden tomes or occult experimentation. Some may have been born with it, whether as a result of a cosmic accident or through the machinations of some cult. Another may have been infected with a disease, or opened the wrong door or... Basically anything is an option.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:12 No.13512979
    >Cthulhu cultists and Hastur cultists are bros

    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:12 No.13512988
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    I also think being an Outsider should give bonuses to certain skills, or at least specialisations. It doesn't matter whether you embrace your heritage or not, you'll still know far more than you'd want to. Hastur might give Crafts and Expression; Shub-Niggurath gives Survival and Animal Ken; Yog-Sothoth gives Science and Academics; Nyarlathotep gives Politics and Subterfuge; Cthulhu gives Occult and Empathy.

    On the magic front, every Outsider is going to have "magical" abilities. On the summoning side, I think it'd be best to let each type of Outsider summon creatures that also worship their God, for instance the Young of the Thousand could call out to the Dark Young. Hell, maybe that could be a common ability: Each Outsider has the ability to act as the centre of a ritual that summons entities favourable to their cause, including humans. The Dark Young come at Shub-Niggurath's call, the Deep Ones and Star Spawn answer Cthulhu's psychic pull and so on. But then you'd have to be careful not to make it a game of summoning monsters and using them to fight for you.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:13 No.13513001
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    Thinking about the Masters of the Cult of Transcendence, maybe a common special ability for Outsiders could be that they can heal pretty much any damage they take by letting their alien side take over and spending madness. Doing so is a sin against Quiescence. Since basically the human flesh gets replaced by Something Else.

    Perhaps they could be able to survive in a vacuum? To make those Yog-Sothoth-enabled journeys to Pluto, or to visit the Deep Ones.

    For every point of Mythos you get a +1 bonus to resist fear effects. Why should fear be afraid?

    Sacrificing 1 point of Quiescence the PC can assume his Quiescence 00 form for a limited time, with exact bonuses depending on the Sect.
    Like Demon: The Fallen's Apocalyptic forms.

    [Answer the Calling]
    Cost: (10 - Mythos) Madness
    Requirements: Outsider
    Description: All outsiders, once made aware of their true nature, may use this ability. For a piece of their humanity (or mortality if not human) they may abandon their minds and forms to the will of their patron. For a period of one minute per Mythos level the Outsider assumes the form it would hold at 0 Quiescence and maintains control of their character. This loss of Quiescence does not provoke a Displacement check as normal. Upon the end of the duration when the Outsider returns to their previous form they lose one Quiescence. This loss DOES provoke a Displacement check with a +2 penalty.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:14 No.13513016
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    [The Calling]
    Cost: L1:2M L3:8M L5:32M L7:128M L9:512M

    L2:4M L4:16M L6:64M L8:256M L10:1024M
    Req.: Special

    You summon an eldritch horror from beyond the reaches of time and space to do your dark bidding and spread chaos upon the lands of man.
    You can only summon something with a lesser Mythos rating than yours (unless you have a specific focus item). You need 10 successes on Mythos+Occult roll and 1 human sacrifice per Mythos rating (half if summoning something connected to your Sect). The stronger the creature the likelier it is to resist your commands (Mythos+Resolve vs Mythos+Presence).
    To effectively summon something really big, you would need the help of other Outsiders, artifacts that grant extra Madness or reduce the cost of summoning and find a place in the world where the barrier between dimensions is appropriately thin and such a place would draw the attention of basically every other major player in the WoD, so securing it would be an adventure on to itself
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:16 No.13513036
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    Also, in case I haven't mentioned it, Madness is a power resource that you accumulate and spend to use abilities. Methods of Obtaining it haven't been completely decided but several have been proposed:

    A possible system may be as follows: Madness itself would be hard to acquire, given how little you would regularly need to spend. I'm thinking that being within sensory range of someone who loses a point of morality would give 1 madness, being within sensory range of someone who gains a mild derangement would give 2, when someone gains a severe it would be 3, when you lose Quiescence it would be 4, when you get a mild derangement it would be 5, and when you get a severe derangement it would be 6. It could also probably be restored with ritual worship or sacrifice.

    (integrate with above system, or use as substitute for Virtue for regaining Willpower)

    >Starspawn- The madness spreads. The madness corrupts.
    Gain Madness by surrounding yourself with it.
    (An Asylum would be perfect). As priests of the outer gods they revel in their masters work.

    >Shepard of the Silver Key- Madness opens all gates.
    Gain Madness by acquiring knowledge of the Outer Gods
    (arguably the most dangerous route to gain it)

    >Young of the Thousand - The madness bears young.
    Gain Madness by causing it in others.

    >Scion of the Yellow Sign - Madness speaks. Madness tells me to do things.
    Gain Madness by indulging it.

    >Courtier of the Black Pharaoh- Chaos. Chaos crawls. Chaos spreads. Chaos infects. Chaos swarms.
    Gain Madness by "Just as planned."
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:19 No.13513064
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    On Losing and regaining quiescence:

    Quiescence - Sin
    10----------Use of Rejections
    09----------Use of Rejections for mundane things
    08----------Cause a Derangement
    07----------Taking on the Quiescence 0 form temporarily
    06----------Perceivable change in reality
    05----------Human Sacrifice (simple murder doesn't count)
    04----------Cause an area to loose Quiescence
    03----------Major alteration of reality
    02----------Repeating indulgence of the previous sins
    01----------Willfully endanger the fabric of creation (Let the Old Ones back in)
    Additionally, you lose Quiescence using High level Rejections and botched rolls on Rejections

    You regain Quiescence by reconnecting with your humanity (storyteller discretion) or when fulfilling a Virtue you can choose to forgo the willpower restoration in exchange for a point of Quiescence.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:20 No.13513087
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    Every 2 levels of Mythos the Outsider abandons an aspect of mortality of his choice selectable from the following:

    M02: need to eat, breathe, sleep, or drink.
    M04: One of the five senses (ditching one sense allows you to heighten one of the remaining senses)
    M06: Speech, emotion, pain (automatically taken at M4 if you ditch touch), ability to reproduce
    M08: [--unknown--]
    M10: That is not dead which can eternal lie. [Biological Immortality]


    As Outsiders loose their grasp on reality their bodies begin to assume a form more adequate to their new place in the cosmos (or lack there of). Their bodies twist and change to the whim of their masters or even by the power of their own unnatural abilities.
    An Outsider gains a mutation on Quiescence 9, 7, 5, 3. At Quiescence 00 it assumes it's final form.
    Additional mutations can be acquired through use of Rejections.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:22 No.13513102
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    Weapon Mutations

    Damage 1(B)
    Size 2
    Durability 2

    The tentacle is a 8-10 feet long leathery prehensile appendage, that while dextrous enough to be used regularly as a normal hand without any penalties can be also used in combat (Strength+Brawl).
    It can also be used to grapple an opponent and perform grapple related actions while leaving other limbs free.

    Damage 3(B)
    Size 1
    Durability 3

    Your feet are replaced by a pair of hooves. Other than making your kicks deadlier they concentrate the force of the kick into a single point allowing you to knockdown opponents unless they pass a Dexterity + Athletics roll. You get a -1 penalty to Athletics related rolls that involve your feet (rock climbing is exempt).

    Damage 2(L)
    Size 2
    Durability 4

    Your hand is replaced by a crab like pincer. If you posses the tentacle mutation you can elect to have it grow out of the end of it. You lose the ability to perform any delicate operations with that appendage. Armor Piercing 2.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:23 No.13513116
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    Damage 2(L)
    Size 2
    Durability 2

    You gain an extra attack with your head. Armor Piercing 1.

    General Mutations

    [Additional Point in Key Atribute]

    You gain an additional ability point in your Sect’s key attribute. Strength (YotT), Intelligence (SSS, SotSK), Presence (SotYS, CotBP)

    [Additional Sensory Organs]

    Additional eyes/ears/antennae appear on your body granting a +1 bonus to rolls involving perception.

    [Additional Legs]

    You grow an extra pair of legs. Your movement speed increases by 50% an you gain a +1 bonus to resist being knocked down or loosing your balance.

    [Increase Size]

    You gain an additional size category. +1HP weapon mutations statistics increase by 1 point.

    Fly at 50% of your movement speed.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:24 No.13513126
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    Armor Mutations

    Rating: 1/2
    Strength: 1
    Defense: 0
    Speed: 0

    You are covered in thick fish like scales.

    [Bone Plates]*
    Rating: 2/3
    Strength: 2
    Defense: -1
    Speed: 0

    Boney outgrowths cover your body granting you protection. Prevents you from wearing normal armor unless specially tailored and you need very baggy clothes to conceal it.

    [Interlocking Plates]*
    Rating: 3/4
    Strength: 3
    Defense: -2
    Speed: -1
    Req.: Bone Plates

    The bone plates are now molded around each other covering previous weaknesses in your defense.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:25 No.13513138
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    [Aetheric Flesh]

    All but the gravest of damage pass right through you without leaving a mark. You ignore 1 point of Lethal damage.

    [Acid Blood]
    If you’re wounded in a melee deal 1 point of aggravated damage to your opponent.

    [Vile Secretions]
    Your body is covered in thick fire-retardant slime.
    Gain +1 armor and ignore 2 damage if inflected by a heat source.

    [*]Can't be taken multiple times.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:28 No.13513175
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    Rejections are powers that come from an Outsider's link with his God. These are supernatural abilities that just work for him.

    Rituals are magical rites which invoke the power of the Old Gods indirectly. Suitably knowledgable mortals can use these rituals, but Outsiders are better. They generally involve long and involved castings, often with groups of cultists aiding the Outsider.
    Rituals are ceremonies related to the Outsiders, but not exclusive to them. Anyone with enough Madness and the knowledge of the eldritch lore can perform a ritual. Rituals are extended actions, often requiring up to hundreds of successes to be performed. Succeeding in these rituals gives the participants permanent benefits, either changing them somehow, or providing them with pieces of the great beyond.

    The purchase of these is still kinda up in the air. Whether each Rejection is bought individually or what.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:32 No.13513214
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    And that's about the extent of what's been devised so far.

    I'm not going to post all of the rituals and rejections in the list so far. A lot of them need refining and the list is not even close to complete. If you really what to see them you can check out the google document in the first post.

    So, I'm interested to hear what you think of the project so far. Any comments?
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:46 No.13513350
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    This will probably bother you, but this really reminds me of the basic-person-level of Cthulhutech.

    If you're trying to create a feel similar to the original mythos, have you thought about including P.I.s?

    Also, an Image you might like.
    >> Anonymous 01/13/11(Thu)23:57 No.13513487
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    It may share similarities to several systems, but I don't see that as a problem. People have also called it "inverse Call of Cthulhu" too. The mythos is a popular fan setting and is incorporated into a lot of systems.

    Besides, this one has an emphasis on the actual outsider extra-dimensional beings themselves, and not just on the cultists. I'm not too familiar with Cthulhutech but I believe it is designed mainly for players of investigators (And mech pilots / bio armor warriors) or maybe cultists if inverted. Besides, this si placed in modern day, behind the scenes rather than dystopic future setting.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)00:01 No.13513537

    not really a comment, more of the question.

    I'm the guy that penned up the 'ranting about the nature of Rejections' rant that I so affectionately named 'Reject Reality. Obtain Cookies.'. I saw on the note it needs to be updated to fit the new categories, and I'm more or less trying to figure out how while retaining the pacing of the rant--something that I feel is very important, and the current pacing seems fine enough.

    Though it may be easier to just rewrite it from scratch, I think.

    But basically I want to hear other opinions on how the rant should go.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)00:08 No.13513635
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    I remember reading your original rant and I enjoyed it. I'm not sure what the document owner meant exactly by "needs revision". I think maybe they just wanted it turned more grim derp to fit the system and setting a bit perhaps. I only didn't post it here because it was relatively unimportant game-mechanics wise, no offense.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)00:23 No.13513786

    Nah, that's fine. I thought the revision was more because I wrote it back when the names for the categories of rejections were still up in the air, so I needed to change that--unless you include the names I made up as simple 'this is what each sect calls, together, the three categories of rejections they practice', I suppose.

    And not posting it is fine, crunch is what needs working on most now, right? so crunch comes first.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)00:29 No.13513871
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    Glad to hear that you're satisfied with that. Indeed, crunch is the far more pressing matter at the moment. Particularly, fleshing out the rest of the rejections. We should probably have at LEAST 3 different rejections for each rank of each class. That means 120 in all minimum, and that is a mark we are far short of.

    And that's not even including rituals.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)00:47 No.13514072
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    I think I shall now get some sleep... Maybe in the morning I shall again take up the mantle and get to work on some crunch. Until then, good night /tg/. Hope someone enjoys the compilation here.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)07:49 No.13516990
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    Bump so I can do some writefagging before this dies.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)08:18 No.13517117
    >Wake up
    >Check the document out of habit
    Why are there so many people viewing it?
    >Check /tg/
    >New Thread
    Yay, somebody new working on this!
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)08:30 No.13517161
    > I thought the revision was more because I wrote it back when the names for the categories of rejections were still up in the air


    >And not posting it is fine, crunch is what needs working on most now, right? so crunch comes first.

    well, nobody is going to blame anyone if they write some fluff
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)08:39 No.13517207
    shugg-niggoroth is often treated as a 'Mother" figure more than a father.
    So maybe change this to 'she' or which back and forth between 'he' and 'she'
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)08:41 No.13517230
    Frankly, we should change everything to 'it'.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)09:13 No.13517424

    Depends on the viewpoint. If we're going for a neutral, rulesy tone, then yes, "It" and "They" ought to be used. If we're doing fluff pieces from the point of view of cultists and Outsiders, then "he" or "she" are just fine.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)09:23 No.13517486
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    "The creature is sometimes referred to as “The Black Ram of The Forest with a Thousand Ewes,” lending a male gender to the entity that is often thought of as female."

    I don't really think either male or female should be used exclusively. If anything, Shub-Niggurath is probably most commonly referred to as both male and female, being a combination of both or hermaphroditic.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)09:44 No.13517623

    [Eldritch Knowledge]

    Yo know you were changed by an unknowable horror from beyond the reaches of time and space, but wow much do you REALLY know?
    1: The simple folk talk of abominable rites performed around a standing stone deep in the bayous.
    2: You've collected tales from other Outsiders or deciphered some fragmented stone hieroglyphs.
    3: You have read the Necronomicon, or similar relatively modern work of the occult.
    4: You have access to an extensive library of both old and new texts.
    5: You have walked the halls of lost Atlantis and discussed Hypergeomety with you Elder Thing host.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)09:46 No.13517633
    I've no idea why I'm writing this. A confession, maybe? A guide for others to follow in my footsteps? A suicide note? Lab notes?

    Regardless of the purpose, I shall try to record the progress of the ritual as best as I can. If I should fail, then perhaps this will help identify my errors, so that I might try again to remove this curse.

    The subjects, excluding myself, are 24 students of mine, aged between 7 and 8. I took them from school at gunpoint, also taking Peter Scott, another teacher, as the necessary catalyst. When there was protest, I showed them my true form, and they were silent. I drove the bus back to the Temple, which they could not see at first. I opened the way and they followed. I can only hope that by performing the ritual here, He will not be able to interfere.

    The centre of the ritual is the Stone. It took many months of searching for it, though I eventually located it in the ruins of an ruined church, apparently burnt as the result of an investigation into some sort of cult centuries ago. The Stone is a red-veined, oddly shaped Trapezohedron that, according to my research, acts as some sort of conduit for Him. I intend to utilise the Stone's conductive powers to transfer the taint. My research indicates that this has been done before, though not with the same Stone, or on this scale. The records I've read indicate that past efforts focussed on the transfer from one to another. I believe that by dividing the infection between many, its effects on their lives will be minimised. There will, no doubt, be some trauma from this experience, but I will be free of this curse, and free of Him. That is a price worth paying. So I begin.

    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)09:47 No.13517641

    The first stages of the experiment went smoothly. The Stone responded in the way I predicted it would, when the catalyst was activated. I consumed the drug, and the other subjects (after some persuasion) did the same. It is an incredibly curious feeling. I am somewhat light-headed, but perhaps that is just excitement about what is to follow.


    What have I done? The children are all screaming or crying and struggling at their restraints. They see what I saw. I should kill each of them now to spare them the sight of it, but I can't bring myself to. The ritual worked. I'm free. I can't hear Him any more.

    I didn't want any of this. I called Him up on a whim, little suspecting that he would actually come. He promised me wealth and power, the sort that I could barely dream of. I agreed, barely comprehending what He asked me to do in return. He changed me, but when it came to it, I could not do what He told me to. It was too monstrous, too huge. So I ignored Him. But things got worse. The dreams continued. I saw glimpses of them even while waking. My body changed too, I stopped eating or drinking, and my skin grew grey and unhealthy. And the children, with whom I had gotten on so well, seemed distant. Even other teachers stopped talking to me, except when necessary. My long-term girlfriend left too, with barely an explanation. None was needed.

    So I devoted myself to undoing my mistake, finding some way to reverse His influence. And this led me to here. Alone in a room filled with screaming children and a corpse on the blood-stained floor. the Stone, still active and glowing, casts everything in a low, crimson light. I've got to get out.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)09:48 No.13517649


    It won't work. The doors won't open. I can't leave. I'm human again, so I can't unlock the portal back to reality. Maybe one of the children could do it, if I taught them how.

    The children have stopped screaming. They just stare at the Stone now, like they're listening. Listening to Him maybe. Good god, what if this was all He ever wanted from me? What if I was wrong, and each of those children will become like I was?

    They're staring at me now. They don't say anything, but I can see what it is that they want. I should kill them now before they get free, before they get out. It's the only way that anyone could stop them.

    But they're just children.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)09:53 No.13517681
    The innocent die so the righteous may live.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)09:58 No.13517719
    They are all blond, right?
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:04 No.13517758
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    >little, gotiongs
    Ye they are Captcha.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:06 No.13517770

    Mechanically, what effect would this have? Bonuses to occult rolls dealing with the Cthulhu Mythos?
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:09 No.13517793
    maybe it could regulate how many rituals you have access to.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:13 No.13517822
    This seems like a good idea. Each ritual could have an Eldritch Knowledge level associated with it that you must have as the minimum requirement to use it, aside from all the other costs.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:18 No.13517849
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    I like this a lot. But this seems to be similar to one of the types of outsiders discussed before: not being able to abide what they truly are and seeking to end their own existence.

    While it does make for an interesting story it may not be the best for a group of player characters.

    Sill, great fluff. Would love to see more. (Nice reference to The Haunter in the Dark too.)
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:31 No.13517944

    I see lots of problems with this, First, all supernaturals need to use XP to up their Morality stat (I understand it isn't kind of morality but still, you know, But also, we could make it cost lower instead of the normal 3 EXP, make it 1 or 2 EXP)
    I would change some things
    10 - Using rejections for something you could have accomplished without a rejection(5 dice)
    9- Cause a derangement (4 dice)
    8- (4 dice)
    7-Start a Cult, Showing mortals the secret of the universe (3 dice)
    6- (3 dice)
    5- Minor Human sacrifice (Not murder) (2 dice)
    4 - (2 dice)
    3- (1 die)
    2- Use a minor rejection to murder someone mundane (1 die)
    1- Turning to you QQ form, using a Major Rejection (level 5), Letting the Old ones in, Major human Sacrifice (between 10 - 100) (non Manslaughter, Manslaughter is ok) (no dice automatic Failure) Just because reality isn't a really forgiving mistress but you wouldn't lose 2 Q to go to that form or using a major rejection, But also, I think that low level rejections should be a safe thing to do.
    And that is all I have about QQ, probably will fill it later if people like it, but I think yours is very good.
    also, I believe that you mutations should be linked to your Mythos rather than your Q, as you start with 7 you should be starting with two mutations already
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:35 No.13517973

    >But this seems to be similar to one of the types of outsiders discussed before: not being able to abide what they truly are and seeking to end their own existence.

    Yeah, I went with writing about a Denier, since the two pieces of fluff I've seen already seem to be about a Servant and a Rebel. So now it's time to come up with a little story about a Master and a Dreamer.


    Maybe make it so that increasing knolwedge gives you bonus dice on occult when rolling to find about the Cthulhu Mythos and restricts what sort of rituals you can learn, but also gives penalties to Quiescence degeneration rolls to represent you finding it harder to stay in control as your knowledge grows. Or it changes your maximum Quiescence maybe.

    Just like the Cthulhu Mythos skill in CoC restricts your sanity.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:40 No.13518010
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    The Mutation system was devised before it was decided outsiders would start at 7 Quiescence so it undoubtedly needs some revising.

    The Quiescence levels were also thrown together relatively quickly I believe and may need some work, as you suggest.

    I do like the idea that outsiders should be able to use some minor rejections without losing their perfect Quiescence.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:44 No.13518041
    Personally I like the fact that an outsider starts out with a couple of mutations from the start. the only thing I would add to the current system is the option to keep the current mutation if one wishes when rising Quiescence back above the threshold for it.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:47 No.13518061

    what piece of fluff is from the rebel standpoint, and which was from a servant? I'm curious.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:50 No.13518076
    Maybe because Ilike Complicated things, don't know, Maybe we could divide the mutations, Into two categories, Gross (easy to hide, not that powerful) and Eldritch (not that easy to hide, Powerful ones) the gross mutations can be upgraded to Eldritch, We could make the the .. (Forgot the name of the class that worshiped shub-nigurath,) Got two Gross mutations every time or one Eldritch one, just to make sure there is a change in gameplay.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:51 No.13518082
    From the previous thread:

    "She had weaseled her way into a small mining companies board - none of the old farts paid notice to the her, the newest secretary. It had been test for her, she would have bankrupted the company in one month flat, channeling their funds into the accounts of her nature loving friends (with a meager 60% margin for her own pockets), but then she found the maps and blueprints. They fascinated her ... and were utterly alien.

    But the theft had alerted the true "bosses" of the company. They were nasty things to behold, the Space Crabs she called them. They whipered to her in the night, wanting her mind - dragging her through their collected braincylinders - like in those B-movies her fiance liked.

    Instead came the pain, searing pain, turning her insides to ice, her brain inside out...
    When the pain ended she could see the Space Crabs as what the were. Pathetic Slaves to their own eldritch gods.
    She fled into the night, flying on alien wings, scaling walls like the "Human Fly" movie guy, seeing in pitch blackness.

    They tried to make her into something like themselves, now she was like these superheroes from her fiance's comics - powerful yet alien.

    She would make them pay, Sace crabs be damned.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:53 No.13518089

    He stood outside of the maternity ward and ran his fingers across the glass, leaving a faint smudge. Rows and rows of newborn babies, each snug in a perfectly color coded blanket. Pink for the boys, blue for the girls. Such little wonders. Each a thriving life, a veritable factory that would one day pump out more just like them. A gift that rivaled only the gift bestowed upon him.

    Even now he could feel them, a honeycomb of soft blisters along his shoulder blades and down his spine. Every time he shifted his weight, his uniform rasped against the pustules in a pleasurable frisson, threatening gooseflesh on his arms. First they were small, mere pin-pricks, but in time they grew and ripened into fat mounds each the size of his thumb. The flesh covering them was taut and nearly transparent. He could still taste the joy he felt that first day he stared at them in the mirror and saw the small black dots squirming within. Certainly it was the taste of bile when he retched into the toilet, but that too was joy. The very processes of life itself!

    Soon, too soon, it would be time and he'd have his own young to care for. He knew what would be next. The careful gathering and preparation of the birthed. Each would be placed within a single bottle of infant formula, and there in those glorious newborns, the cycle would begin again. A thousand young bearing a thousand, thousand young! Glorious!

    He turned to go back to work, one more faceless orderly in the hospital. He scratched idly at his throat, feeling the tell-tale pin-prick bumps growing there. Simply glorious.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)10:53 No.13518094

    Maybe have it so that the experience spend just represents Outsiders getting back in touch with humanity. The ST could maybe give a discount if they're doing something particularly special.

    Assuming Quiescence 0 Form, I think, shouldn't involve automatic Quiescence loss, it should just be fairly far down the list. So there's only the risk of losing one, rather than the guaranteed loss of one, and maybe another.

    And I think if you want to stay at Quiescence 10, you'd have to abstain from rejections. Rejections, at their core, are things that shouldn't happen, so reality will take notice.

    And as for mutations, I'd maybe make it so that they were based off of increasing Mythos (embracing the alien), but whenever Quiescence degenerates, Outsiders run the risk of gaining a mutation as well as a derangement (or maybe their could be a choice there). Only Quiescence Mutations could be removed by regaining that Quiescence (by regaining your sense of reality).
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)11:07 No.13518181
    The thing is, Reality is trying to hide your horrible face from herself, then you suddenly transform into that thing, do you think that reality is that forgiving ? You are losing the same amount of Q as if it wasn't there, just putting it there so it is a sin, not something that drops you morality twice, it is, you change to that form you lose the Q point and as I see it, Q is just something very fragile Outsiders shouldn't go around losing so fast that is why I put such a low quantity of dices on the rolls.... which makes me wonder, I am starting to talk about reality like it was alive =/
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)11:18 No.13518268
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    I think currently the school of polymorphism which both Shub Niggurath and Nyarlathotep's servant have access to will allow you to temporarily gain or lose mutations. This helps Young of the thousand burst into eldritch abominations and powerful Courtiers of the Black Pharaoh to disguise their true forms.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)11:24 No.13518306
    Are you saying it isn't? That would be naive in the context of the universe of the mythos...
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)11:47 No.13518458
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    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)11:51 No.13518487
    It all depends on how you look at it, is Quiescence a wall that is slowly being demolished or does it represent a descent into ever lower levels of reality where your particular 'quirks' are tolerated until you do something worse.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)11:51 No.13518493

    Maybe reality is Azathoth. Outsiders and all the rest basically stomp around to such an extent that he's in danger of waking up. So Azathoth/reality lashes out.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)12:07 No.13518595
    God damnit, I thought this was gonna fall like a badly made card house when you all realized it's like making your players gods, but you guys actually made it work...

    I'm so playing this when it's (near) done.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)12:10 No.13518617
    >when you all realized it's like making your players gods
    Wasn't this the premise from the start?
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)12:12 No.13518629
    So how are these Outsiders seen by all the other WoD inhabitants?

    I'd imagine that everyone except the mages would just see them as very powerful mages... And the mages would be terrified and overly jelly of their powers.

    Since it's already canon that God does exist, he's an asshole and stuff, but very much real (to a certain point of existance, at least), how does that render the whole Elder God thing? I mean, is God omnipotent? Does he allow such eldritch horrors? Did he conceive them himself? Or are they, perhaps much like God himself, figments of collective consciousness, representatives of far greater, far worse trails of thought?
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)12:14 No.13518645
    Yeah, I suppose I misunderstood the concept from the start...
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)12:16 No.13518655
    Reality is the dream of Azathoth, the blind idiot demon sultan at the center of all chaos. Him being an asshole is one way of describing it...
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)12:18 No.13518669
    The Elder Gods were speculated in previous threads to be True Fae.
    Nodens in particular is very Fae-like.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)13:14 No.13518982
    Well, in other thread we talked about it,
    Vampires hate them because they are chaos incarnate and you know how all vampires have OCD
    Werewolf's hate them because they are pure Wyrm,
    Mages hate them because they are eldritch abominations,
    Prometheans... are angsty all the time so I am guessing they wouldn't care about the world dieing,
    Changelings... well that is a tricky one not sure about them,
    Geists, other guys that wouldn't give a fuck
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)13:58 No.13519316
    >Werewolf's hate them because they are pure Wyrm,
    I thought there wasn't a Wyrm anymore.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)14:55 No.13519835
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)15:17 No.13520074
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    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)15:29 No.13520219
    >all supernaturals need to use XP to up their Morality
    I didn't notice this until it was pointed out to me, but yes you will spend XP to raise Quiescence. The alternative methods mentioned in the file are there since we believed that the it might be a bit too much of an xp black hole otherwise. If tests will show that it's not necessary they will of course be removed.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)15:35 No.13520312
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    Speaking of tests, how long until we should start play testing this?

    As soon as we finish the rejections and rituals compilation?

    I for one would be more than happy to GM or be a PC for the campaign. We could even do it right in the suptg IRC channel.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)15:36 No.13520336
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    Oh yeah, I just realized we need to stat some creatures/antagonists too...

    But that's a less pressing matter. For play testing we can always use other outsiders, normal investigators, Hunters, or creatures from other settings.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)15:44 No.13520449

    We still need:
    -quite a few Rejections and Rituals
    -finalize how Madness is gained, and for that matter how much Madness per Mythos an Outsider gets.
    -finalize what abilities are common to all outsiders
    -what advantages go an outsider get from belonging to a specific faction

    There is probably more, but that is the minimum before we test I'd say.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)15:53 No.13520573
    Sounds about right. I'm honestly quite surprised /tg/ has stuck together through this project this long. Most of them fall apart much quicker than this [Like leviathan ; ( ]
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)16:03 No.13520710
    Leviathan is still going on I think, tho the wiki hasn't been updated in some time the RPG.net thread was last active just a few weeks ago.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)17:21 No.13521532
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    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)17:35 No.13521681

    /tg/ projects last like this when they stop being purely /tg/ projects. /tg/'s still the heart and soul, but we've got people working off of /tg/ collating and collecting and organising.


    Once we've got an answer for pretty much every core rules question, I think. Fluff and stuff can wait, but we'd need to be able to run things before we playtest.


    The question of Madness is something we need to work on quite soon.

    Thing is, to me, the fuel isn't actually Madness. Then we'd have Outsiders basically be Changelings, hanging round people and soaking up emotions.

    Madness should be something a little more than that. Madness is magic, it's simple science, it's psychic energy, it's blood, it's sacrifice, it's thought.

    BRB, rereading Trail of Cthulhu's Rough Magicks for inspiration on how Lovecrafty magic works.
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/14/11(Fri)18:01 No.13521940
    Well, I don't actually know, I never actually played or read anything about W:tF, or W:tA, because it never really attracted me.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)18:05 No.13521981
    >-what advantages an outsider gets from belonging to a specific faction

    Just to get the discussion going:

    Servant: Bonus on gathering Madness
    Master: Extra point of Madness per Mythos
    Rebel: More resistant to Rejections
    Denier: Extra die to resist a Quiescence degeneration
    Dreamer: Bonus on resisting the effects of Displacement when on an other plane of existence
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)19:06 No.13522493
    If injected with the right mix of chemicals this thread can live again!
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/14/11(Fri)20:03 No.13523019
    10 - Using rejections for something you could have accomplished without a rejection(5 dice)
    9- Cause a major derangement, Use a mid Level Rejection (level 3-4) (4 dice)
    8- Minor Changes on reality, Use a rejection on a willing mundane character (4 dice)
    7-Start a Cult, Showing mortals the secret of the universe (3 dice)
    6- Cause a Major Derangement(Just causing a derangement on someone that is sane is worse than doing it on someone that is already broken) (3 dice)
    5- Minor Human sacrifice (Not murder) (2 dice)
    4 - Major Changes on reality(2 dice)
    3- (1 die)
    2- Use a rejection on an unwilling Mundane target(1 die)
    1- Turning to you QQ form, using a Major Rejection (level 5), Letting the Old ones in, Major human Sacrifice (between 10 - 100) (non Manslaughter, Manslaughter is ok) (no dice automatic Failure)

    Ok about Mythos (maybe)
    LVL---Stat Max--- Max Mad/Per turn---Displacement
    1------- 5 ------------ 5/1 -------------------- 0
    2------- 5 ------------ 10/2 ----------------------0
    3 ------ 5 ------------ 15/3--------------------- +1
    4------- 5------------- 20/4--------------------- +1
    5------- 5------------- 25/5------------------ +1
    6------- 5------------- 35/7--------------------- +2
    7------- 5------------- 45/9-------------------- +2
    8------- 5 ------------ 60/11--------------------- +3
    9------- 5 ------------ 85/13------------------ +3
    10------ 5 ---------- 100/15------------------ +3

    I would add mutation to the chart but it wouldn't enter, and people don't agree on that =o
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)20:03 No.13523024

    There isn't any Wyrm any more, but Werewolves still oppose spirits of a certain type, corrupt spirits and bad things like that. Outsiders are everything Werewolves despise. They're not natural, not even close.


    Mages hate Outsiders especially because the Cthulhu Mythos is something Mages haven't until this point dealt with. They don't know, and what Mages don't know, they hate.

    Geists would probably only have problems with Outsiders when the body count starts rising.

    Changelings would either be not particularly bothered, see Outsiders as potential allies (if they believe the True Fae = Elder Gods story) or as things not much better than the Fae they've escaped.

    And Prometheans would probably sympathise with Deniers, since they're coming at the same problem from opposite sides. Deniers are trying to retain humanity, Prometheans are often trying to gain it in the first place.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)20:14 No.13523122

    >Mages hate Outsiders especially because the Cthulhu Mythos is something Mages haven't until this point dealt with. They don't know, and what Mages don't know, they hate.

    That should, of course, say:

    >Mages hate Outsiders especially because the Cthulhu Mythos is something Mages haven't dealt with on a large scale. They don't know, and what Mages don't know, they hate.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)20:24 No.13523219
    An automatic increase of Displacement due to high Mythos...could work, tho I think that should start at Mythos 4 not 3. Also I like the fact that they start at a lower amount of 'mana' than Mages but are quick to catch up and surpass it. Tho if we use that 'Per Turn' amount we will have to rebalanced the Madness cost of some Rejections (tho we were going to do that anyway).
    As for the Mutations, I liked the idea of associating the permanent ones with Mythos and Temporary ones with Quiescence, problem with that is that we might end up with too many of them. From a fluff point of view it's not a problem, but it might be for balance issues.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)20:42 No.13523403

    The chart looks alright, though I wouldn't have the "Using a rejection on an unwilling mundane target should be so low", even below Human Sacrifice. I mean, it's not a massive step from using a rejection to affect the world generally to affecting one single person.

    I like the automatic Displacement from Mythos, it sorts out the problem of High Mythos High Quiescence Outsiders avoiding Displacement entirely.

    I don't know if you were intending to have increasing max stats in there or not, but they definitely should be.


    The mixture of mutations is my favourite method as well. I don't think it'll end up with too many, if you only gain one per every two levels of Mythos guaranteed, and then there's only a chance of gaining them each time your Quiescence degrades, then it's the rare Outsider who'll end up with 15 mutations. And I think if you buy back Quiescence, you should lose the mutation you gained from that loss (though it reappears if you drop below it again). Regaining Quiescence means turning your back on those cool alien powers.
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/14/11(Fri)20:45 No.13523439
    Oh yeah, I spaced out, the stats should start scalling up from 5 and up like on mythos 6 the max stat would be 6, Didn't see that, Should double check everything ,
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)20:50 No.13523483

    I'd maybe have them going up to 7 for the really high Mythos levels. At that point they're really going beyond the limits of what humans could ever do.
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/14/11(Fri)20:53 No.13523523
    Nah, all Metanormal beings as far as I go, After they reach their level 6 they are no longer normal human, they are Meta Humans over the normal human limits, So as they go on until they are (Metanormal advantage) 10, their maximum stat is 10

    LVL---Stat Max---
    1------- 5 ------------
    2------- 5 ------------
    3 ------ 5 ------------
    4------- 5-------------
    5------- 5-------------
    6------- 6-------------
    7------- 7-------------
    8------- 8 ------------
    9------- 9 ------------
    10------ 10 ----------
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)20:58 No.13523570
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    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)21:03 No.13523623
    >it's the rare Outsider who'll end up with 15 mutations.
    You are forgetting the mutations you get from rejections, and the Quiescence 0 transformation which would add at least another 5, which while supposed to be the ultimate rape machine should still be beatable.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)21:17 No.13523741

    Oh good lord. Maybe Mythos might also have a maximum number of mutations linked to it. Which will be a higher than the minimum number coming from Mythos, but not so high. The only way to overcome this limitation is by assuming the Quiescence 0 Form.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)21:48 No.13524021
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    Also, why don't we have a mutation yet to make our outsiders amphibious? People always remember flying but never swimming...

    [Deep Lungs]* - It's a pun, get it?
    You gain an extra large capacity to hold your breath, allowing deep forrays under water. Additional, you gain a +1 bonus to rolls to avoid detection due to your shallow breaths.

    [Slick Skin]*
    You swim at at a speed equal to your move speed. In addition, you get a +1 bonus to rolls to escape being pinned.

    [Scales]* - updated
    Rating: 1/2
    Strength: 1
    Defense: 0
    Speed: 0
    You are covered in thick fish like scales. Become resistant to cold temperatures and ignore 2 damage if inflicted by a cold source.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)21:59 No.13524134
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    We should have mutations be divided up into more subsets then just those based on functions. Suggesting:

    Asset(Positive effect, gained by mythos or polymorphism rejections on allies) versus Liability(Negative effect, gained by loss of quiescence or polymorphism rejections on enemies)

    Concealed(Weak positive effect or strong negative effect) versus Pronounced(Strong positive effect or weak negative effect)
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)22:02 No.13524175

    Be careful: You might end up like Exalted with KEYWORDS EVERYWHERE.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)22:09 No.13524271
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    Example negative afflictions:


    [Altered Anatomy]
    Your internal organs are displaced to unnatural positions and some are missing all together. Any attempts to heal you suffer a 30% chance of failure.

    [Many Eyes]
    You have two extra eyes hidden somewhere on your body (Palms, Chest, Shoulders, Face, etc. Unfortunately, your main eyes have poorer vision than normal, able to only see half the normal distance and unable to read small print. Uncovering the extra eyes negates these penalties. NOTE: If you choose to place the extra pair of eyes on your face, this mutation is Blatant. Otherwise, it is Concealed.

    [Crumbling Skin]
    Your skin begins to crumble and fall from your flesh. Your exposed musculature leaves you extra vulnerable to wounds. Whenever you take lethal damage you take one extra point.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)22:30 No.13524475
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    So, does anyone think that having mutations that are actual harmful is a good idea? Or am I just bouncing ideas off of myself over here?

    [Featureless Face]
    Your face is nothing but a smooth, blank sheet of skin. None of your senses are impaired and function as though you still possessed eyes and a nose. You still need to consume food however, and will die of starvation normally unless sustained by other means or a mouth is gained by another mutation with which to eat.

    [Disjointed Heart]
    Your heart, though still somehow sustaining your life, is not within your body. It is instead separate from you, though if destroyed you will die immediately.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)23:08 No.13524826
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    [Eldritch Blood]
    Your blood is clearly unnatural, even in appearance. Your blood has an unnatural color and a test shows it to belong to no being of this earth. In addition, once spilled, animals (or werewolves) will always be able to track you by scent, regardless of distance.
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)23:24 No.13525003
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    [Long Armed]
    Your arms have extended to become slightly longer than normal, with your arms dragging along the ground. You may make physical attacks against foes at a short distance, but suffer a -1 penalty on all physical attacks due to poor coordination.

    Your leg joints have shifted, and your gait becomes uncomfortable when walking upright. You move at 50% speed unless traveling on all fours, in which case no two handed weapon may be held.

    [Bestial Leap]
    Requires: Quadruped
    After running your full speed in a single direction, you may jump a distance equal to the distance traveled. If you would collide with a foe, you may make a physical attack with a +1 bonus. A successful attack pins them to the ground.

    [Hidden Reach]
    Requires: Long Armed
    Your arms can extend up to double their length very rapidly and still maintain normal dexterity. Physical attacks made in this manner suffer a -1 penalty (in addition to the penalty from [Long Armed]).
    >> Anonymous 01/14/11(Fri)23:46 No.13525170
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    bump for new content

    Any criticism or comments?
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)03:14 No.13526864
    I believe both the True Fae and the Exarchs have been implicated to be the Elder Gods (which might account for the two Elder Signs) but it's really more of a sidebar issue that won't gain a definitive explanation.
    Also, bump.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)04:57 No.13527675

    These are all pretty cool. The distinction between good and bad/disguisable and not was probably going to be essential.

    My only question now is how these get chosen. Is it a random thing, or do people choose how they mutate?
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)04:58 No.13527683
    >We should have mutations be divided up into more subsets then just those based on functions

    I like the Liability and Asset division, but Concealed and Pronounced are counter intuitive since some times a very positive mutation will also be easy to hide, so I wouldn't bother with it and leave how hard something is to hide to the ST.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)05:05 No.13527731
    >My only question now is how these get chosen.
    Positive are gained through gaining Mythos, the negative through loss of Quiescence (which also addresses my previous fears for the balance). They should be chosen from a pool of know mutations unique to each Sect, so that in the end you have something that would be recognizably an Outsider of a particular god. The rest is handled by Polymorphism.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)05:05 No.13527733
    I like those negative mutations. A suggestion would be to make a flat-out negative mutation into a prerequisite for a positive one. Like the Quadruped mutatione in >>13525003 makes it harder for you to walk on two legs only, but on the other hand it enables the Bestial Leap. Other negative mutations should similarly lead into abilities that are advantageous.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)05:17 No.13527780
    >Uncovering the extra eyes...
    ...or wearing glasses...
    >...negates these penalties.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)05:19 No.13527787
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    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)05:20 No.13527796
    that's how things work in reality.
    Thus that is not how things work in Outsider: The Calling
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:02 No.13527981
    So if Changeling is "Abuse Survivor: The Showering", is Outsider "Paedophile Suspect: The Hounding?".

    I mean, people either getting caught for something they did or just happening to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, everyone else hates them and wants them dead, except for little cults of deranged lunatics who think that their reality-breaking powers are awesome, some might try to clear their name and fight, others will just try and hide, and others just go on raping children.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:08 No.13528003

    Well, Promethean already claims the "torch-and-pitchfork-wielding mob" aspect. But I guess you're rihht, Outsiders have all been molested by a higher power and now embrace that same molesting nature in order to rape reality.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:09 No.13528009
    >cthulhu horseshit
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:11 No.13528020
    Now I'm compering Cults to NAMBLA...
    You will hang for that.

    STFU bitch.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:13 No.13528034
    You mad because the Cthulhu mythos sucks dick? That Lovecraft was a crazed racist hack afraid of everything outside his front door?
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:17 No.13528056
    None of that has any bearing on the quality of his writing, but your own personal prejudice against it, thus your critic has no merit and it's just an attack on the character of the author rather than the quality of his writing.
    I suggest you get a refresher course in literature good sir.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:18 No.13528062
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    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:20 No.13528070
    >implying I haven't read Lovecraft's works
    >also implying they are in any way decent
    Seriously, only half-good story he did was Shadow over Innsmouth. And like I said, that was only half-good.

    Why you would want to shit up nWoD with his proto-grimderpery is beyond me.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:25 No.13528099

    well, probably because everyone thinks different, and it seems there are more people that like that idea.
    And really, Nwod is one of the most Grim Derp game I have seen so far.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:25 No.13528100


    Thanks for the bumps, troll.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:26 No.13528107

    >The only half good one was Shadow Over Innsmouth, and even that wasn't very good

    I take issue with that statement, good sir. The Music of Erich Zann was good, as was the Rats in the Walls and the Dunwich Horror.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:28 No.13528114
    >implying a guy who's ran nWoD for a fucking year hasn't read the core book
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:28 No.13528116
    Still you fail to express what is it that you don't like about it. All you keep saying is 'Because!' which I find very infantile.
    Also you seem to be implying that nWoD doesn't already contain prominent elements from Lovecraft's work. This tells me you haven't even read the core book let alone the rest. As such I will henceforth label you a Troll and ignore you and urge others to do the same.
    Good Day
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:29 No.13528120
    How is it grimderp?
    Sure, monsters exist. Sure, they ruin shit for mankind.
    But mankind can still ruin their existences in turn.

    It's the most hopeful dark setting I've ever seen.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:32 No.13528140

    See, now I'm trolling. I actually meant what I said before.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:41 No.13528193

    >see thread about something you don't like
    >don't ignore it
    >post deliberately inflammatory comment that's been known to get Lovecraft-fags irritated
    >claim you aren't trolling

    Oh you.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:43 No.13528204

    The humans can't even defeat the fucking vampires alone, because they're retarded and consider all evidence the raving of lunatics. And the vamps only need to go LOL I MANIPULATE U to win at everything forever when it comes to humans.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:50 No.13528250
    This is why if you want to get anywhere when hunting bloodsuckers, you torch their houses at dawn.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)06:55 No.13528278
    Well, in the book of immortals (The one with the blood bathers) for example, there are this kind of immortals that have this clockwork pacemaker that just needs a lot of resources and a change of organs every time in a while, When it should be something amazing, they go with the secrecy when they should win a nobel or some shit like that, Some other setting go to other grim derp extremes, but I still like the game, still sometimes, it is that grimdark


    And then you have hunters, that sadly sometimes are worse than vampires, going in a n obsessive hunt killing everything being a vampire or not if they in their way. (Well this is an exaggeration , but it sometimes gets there.)
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)08:08 No.13528851
    10 - Using rejections for something you could have accomplished without a rejection(5 dice)
    9- Cause a minor derangement, Use a mid Level Rejection (level 3-4) (4 dice)
    8- Minor Changes on reality, Use a rejection on a willing mundane character (4 dice)
    7-Start a Cult, Showing mortals the secret of the universe (3 dice)
    6- Cause a Major Derangement(Just causing a derangement on someone that is sane is worse than doing it on someone that is already broken) (3 dice)
    5- Minor Human sacrifice (Not murder) (2 dice)
    4 -Cause an area to loose Quiescence(2 dice)
    3- Major Changes on reality(1 die)
    2- Indulging the previous sins on a regular basis (1 die)
    1- Turning to you QQ form, using a Major Rejection (level 5), Letting the Old ones in, Major human Sacrifice (between 10 - 100) (non Manslaughter, Manslaughter is ok) (no dice automatic Failure)

    Combined a couple of lists changed a few things.
    How is this?

    >lake waturger
    Deep in the heart of the Congo lies a cursed lake devoid of life. While scientist talk of oxygen deprived waters the natives know better. Long ago the lake was a site of ritual worship by savage apemen who used to sacrifice humans and treasures to their unspeakable gods. The lake is so poisoned by their influence that no life will tolerate it. The treasures are still there, but no one is willing to search for them.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)08:26 No.13528980
    I was gonna add in 5, Use a rejection on a willing target, or maybe on 6, Everything else seem cool =o
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/15/11(Sat)08:28 No.13528989
    unwilling*... goddamn, just waking up.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)08:35 No.13529030
    6 I'd say, I wouldn't equate it to human sacrifice.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)08:41 No.13529072
    Tho now that I think about it, what a given subject thinks about being a target of a rejection shouldn't' matter.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)09:13 No.13529280
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    Not sure how a feel about the creation of a cult itself causing a loss of Quiescence. I think it should more be related to mortals being made aware of your true nature, which begins to tear at the structures of reality. Then again, I guess they are one in the same
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)09:30 No.13529412
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    More negative mutations? More negative mutations.

    [Plague Lesions]
    You are infected with a unique and virulent strain of a strange disease produced by your own body. You permanently lose one point of Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, or Intelligence. This effect can only be reversed by constant injections of specifically tailored medicines.

    [Virulent Plague]
    Requires: Plague Lesions
    Whenever you make a successful physical attack or suffer a successful physical attack, adjacent targets have a 50% chance of becoming afflicted by the disease, losing two points in the stat chosen for Plague Lesions.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)09:41 No.13529477
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    Eh, fuck it. I'm going to try to stat out some actual rejections based on these:

    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)10:05 No.13529638
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    [Dark Whispers]
    Cost: 1M per 4 targets
    Speak to an individual telepathically at a distance. Distance between individuals and length of conversation, as well as whether or not the can respond vary with ranks. Ranks: (•) Send a brief message to a target nearby, (••) Send a brief message to a target anywhere on the same world, (•••) Converse freely with a nearby target and they may respond, (••••) Converse freely with a target anywhere on the same world and they may respond, (•••••) Converse freely with a target on another world or dimension.

    [Ancient Knowledge]
    Cost: 1M per rank
    In the minds of the gods, all languages are still very much alive and well. Borrow some of that forgotten knowledge that you might gain better insight into their nature or to seek greater power. Gain insight into reading or speaking a long dead language temporarily. Ranks: (•) Read a common language you don't know, (••) read an ancient language [required for some rituals], (•••) speak a common language you don't know, (••••) speak an ancient human language [required for some rituals], (•••••) speak an alien language [required for some rituals]
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)10:07 No.13529650
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    [Alienist Alliance]
    Cost: 2M per rank
    As a priest of your god or an leader of the rebellion, you have many allies on many worlds. Channel the wisdom of another outsider to assist you in your quests. Ranks: (•) Speak to a random friendly outsider on earth, (••) Speak to a specific friendly outsider on earth or a random friendly outsider from another world, (•••) Speak to a specific friendly outsider from another world, (••••) Temporarily call a specific friendly outsider to your location, (•••••) Make a request to speak to an avatar of your god or an opposing god if a rebel.

    [Minor/Major for of the Avatar]
    Cost: 3M (Rank 1-2), 5M (Rank 3), 8M (Rank 4-5)
    Receive a gift of power from your other worldly gods that you might serve their will. You gain a gift to better help you serve them. All effects last the duration of the scene. Choose one of the following PER RANK:
    -Rejections other than this one cost one less madness
    -Your physical form causes sanity loss if looked at directly
    -You gain a extra die on Quiescence rolls.
    -Treat your Mythos as one higher for the purposes of rejections
    -Gain a +1 bonus to two stats of your choice (can increase beyond max)
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)10:20 No.13529737
    >[Dark Whispers]
    looks fine
    >[Ancient Knowledge]
    feels like it would work better as a Merit
    >[Alienist Alliance]
    Change to speak to an avatar of Nyarlathotep, the others just don't care.
    >[Minor/Major for of the Avatar]
    Seems a bit powerful to start at rank 1
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)10:29 No.13529796
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    [Psychic Duress]
    Cost: 2M per rank
    You psychically assault an enemy's mind, dealing damage even to the strong willed and crippling the weak willed. Deals aggravated damage to a foe within sight range. Ranks: (•) Dice pool is only Intelligence, (••) Dice pool is Intelligence + Presence, (•••) Extra successes have a 50% chance of stunning the target, (••••) Dice pool is Intelligence + Presence + Manipulation, (•••••) More than two successes gives a 50% chance of knocking unconscious

    [Warped Psyche]
    You induce fear, rage, or even insanity in others with only the slightest focus of your alien mind. Turn a foe into an impotent coward or into a blinded indiscriminate murderer. The effects last as long as you maintain focus on the target and for 2 minutes thereafter. Can only target non-outsiders. Ranks: (•) Foe has a 25% chance to cower instead of act during their turn so long as they can see you, (••) Foe has a 50% chance to cower instead of act, (•••) Foe cannot act so long as you are within sight, (••••) Foe flies into a blind rage, attacking the nearest target each turn regardless of friendliness, (•••••) Foe is enraged, but also deluded into believing you are an ally and will not attack you
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)10:56 No.13530030
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    [Shifted Loyalties]
    Cost: 3M + 1M per minute to sustain
    You have the power to hypnotize mortals or command weaker outsiders. Roll Wits + Occult against your target's Resolve + Occult to determine success. Ranks: (•) A single mortal views you as friendly, (••) A single mortal will act on a simple suggestion or an outsider will view you as friendly, (•••) A single mortal will serve you in any way you command or an outsider will act on a simple suggestion, (••••) a small group of mortals will view you as friendly or an outsider will serve you in any way you command, (•••••) A group of mortals will act on a simple suggestion or a group of outsiders will view you as friendly.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)10:57 No.13530043
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    [Spinal Tap]
    Cost: 3M for each memory extracted
    Extract information or memories from others by peering into their minds and taking them. If successful the target forgets the extracted info or memory and the extraction itself and you can view the memory at will. You must specifically declare what memory or information you are trying to extract before using the ability within the guidelines based on rank. Failure to find the desired memory because it does not exist causes the rejection to fail. Roll Manipulation + Persuasion against your targets' Resolve + Composure to determine success. Unconscious targets may only use Resolve for their roll. Ranks: (•) Remove the memory of the last 30 minutes, (••) Remove the memory of any specific 30 minutes or information relating to mundane things, (•••) Remove the memory of the last day or information relating to occult research (If their occult skill is higher than yours, yours becomes equal to theirs for the duration of the scene), (••••) remove the memory of any specific day or information about a specific outsider, (•••••) Remove all memory of a specific individual or information about a specific skill (your skill rank for that skill becomes that rank for the duration of the scene)
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)11:07 No.13530122
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    Well, there's my attempt at 8 (40?) more rejections. Maybe I'll do the rest of the categories later.
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/15/11(Sat)11:08 No.13530132
    Well maybe you are right there and we put it on eight as Using as Using a rejection on a Mortal (Maybe we can blur the line between cultist and non cultist as they are the half supernatural beings of the Outsiders (Like, Ghouls for vampire, Kinfolk for changelings, (sorry for saying this) Beholden for the Genius (I know fanmade but It is a acceptable example of fan content, )
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/15/11(Sat)11:11 No.13530158

    I think I kinda like the idea of how you made rejections to work, like depending on your rank in that thing the power it uses, it might be a good idea.
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/15/11(Sat)11:16 No.13530199
    I MEANT WEREOLFS FUCK, damnit always missing at things.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)11:19 No.13530218
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    Honestly, I'm not that experienced with the nWoD system. Would this actually work or has this particular method been used before?

    I wanted to make it so outsiders have the choice to have a large number of weak rejections or be able to have a small bag of very powerful tricks.
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/15/11(Sat)11:35 No.13530322
    Well, as you have noticed, I am not really good but know enough about ruling of some splats, I am not sure if I have seen a system like that, probably the thing that is near to that is Vampire disciplines, the things is they have so many rejections it might be a bit un balanced, the thing that balances it thought is the amount of Madness they have, which is very little. so even a Mythos level 1 with a level 3 rejection might have a strong blast at first but then he would run out of juice really quickly.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)11:54 No.13530455
    I think the problem is this rejections give a bit too much for a low xp cost. For the price of raising the level of the School you would rise the power Rejection instead of buying a new more powerful ones.
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/15/11(Sat)12:08 No.13530561
    Oh also, all rolls for defense have also the Meta normal advantage,
    My face when aggravated damage at such a low level.
    Also I would make it so you would need an exceptional success for knocking out as the other things.
    Normally Aggravated damage almost allways appear around level 3 - 4 depending on the splat.
    Yeah but having to buy both the level and the rejection is a bit too much too, it would cost a fuck load, Well, we have the ideas of the rejections we have to work out how would they work, and "Level them"
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)12:10 No.13530582

    It's kinda similar to Geist's Keys and Manifestations, so there is precedence. I really like 'em though.

    Just means we've got more work to do on the others.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)12:19 No.13530642
    >Yeah but having to buy both the level and the rejection
    Doesn't Mage work this way?
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)12:26 No.13530696
    As I said, I am not familiar with the precedents. Feel free to alter than in any way you like.
    >> Doppelganger !M9qwi1Y0FU 01/15/11(Sat)12:51 No.13530869
    Alright, here's my take.

    All outsiders choose 2 of their 3 rejection trees at character creation. They gain a rank 1 rejection in those, for free. Other rejections must be bought with XP. When you buy a rejection, you gain its rank 1 form, and may upgrade it further in the usual way. (there could be a very expensive merit only available at charcreation that gives you the rank 2 rejection for free once you first unlock the rejection)

    Some of the stronger rejections, such as Psychic Duress (lolaggravated) require high Mythos/low Quiescence/both.

    Indeed, Outsiders are far stronger than most other supernaturals, but there's something called game balance.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)12:55 No.13530906
    Thinking about Madness...

    Madness isn't, strictly, just insanity. In order to work their mojo, Outsiders utilise a strange type of magic, the core of which is the Outsider's willingness to sacrifice for power, as well as their ability to deny reality.

    The simplest way to gain Madness is to absorb it from the insane. By conversing and interacting with a person with a minor derangement, and passing some sort of social skill check, an Outsider can gain 1 Madness, a majorly deranged person gives 2 Madness.

    Committing acts of sacrifice can also produce Madness. Human sacrifice gives Madness equal to the victim's Willpower, with 1 extra Madness per derangement, and 1 extra if the sacrifice is willing. Animal sacrifices give 2 points of Madness.

    Though sacrifice of humans and animals is the most traditional form of sacrifice, sacrifice of other things are equally useful. The sacrifice of one dot worth of Resources, usually through burning, gives 4 dots of Madness.

    For people less willing to make these sacrifices, it's possible to utilise objects and artifacts that store and generate madness.

    The numbers are probably all over the place, but what do you guys think?
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)12:56 No.13530913
    Don't they still need to purchase Rotes?
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)13:00 No.13530937

    >Indeed, Outsiders are far stronger than most other supernaturals, but there's something called game balance.

    We just need to make Displacement a bitch to deal with. Outsiders might be outwardly powerful, but they've got to manage the fact that nearly everyone hates your guts.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)13:05 No.13530972
    I like the rules for sacrificing, but Outsiders are not Changelings, they shouldn't just 'absorb' madness from living beings, tho a sufficient amount of mad people (think an asylum or your cult) could form a conduit for dark energies.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)13:19 No.13531058

    Maybe they have to provoke the Madness. Intimidate rolls ahoy!
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)14:37 No.13531673

    If so, it should be more objective based than roll based. A Shepard of the Silver Key might be able to gain Madness by introducing a character to new knowledge, but he shouldn't necessarily have to make an Expression role to do it.
    >> Not really experienced White wolf Gm 01/15/11(Sat)14:50 No.13531776
    They don't need Rotes, Mages improvise spells all the time, Meaning that they roll Gnosis(Metanormal advantage)+Arcana (Life, death, Time, Etc) which has more risk of doing a paradox, while a rote gives an ample chance the roll will work which is, Attribute+Skill+Gnosis, and makes the chances of paradox less of a risk and other minor things that may or not be really good don't remember
    The only thing I don't get, is what is Madness, which could be a start on how to get it.

    >Indeed, Outsiders are far stronger than most other supernaturals, but there's something called game balance.

    Don't like the idea of them being more powerful, they may be strong at one thing, but they can't just be more powerful, maybe the best idea might be making them heavy hitters.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)14:56 No.13531828
    >Madness: The energy that Outsiders use to bend and break reality. It's not literal madness, but a way of indicating how successful an Outsider is perverting the laws of the universe.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)15:18 No.13531998

    Hm, I don't really like the idea of basically getting Madness for free. Even Changelings have to inspire their emotions somehow. For the Madness to have any effect, the people who're being talked to have to Believe. It's not enough just for them to hear. They have to understand.

    Just stopping a person in the street and saying "Reality is the dream of some vast, uncaring God and I am his son" won't do anything. Standing up on a soapbox and giving a well-crafted lecture on why, exactly, we're all doomed will affect certain people and produce that delicious Madness.

    Of course, there could be multiple ways of gaining that Madness, through various social rolls.


    >The only thing I don't get, is what is Madness, which could be a start on how to get it.

    Outsiders' fuel stat, like Glamour for Changelings or Mana for Mages. It's less actual madness, and more a state of mind that permits the rape of reality.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)15:36 No.13532114

    I agree with the sentiment on Madness gathering, but it needs to be open to those who don't specialize in Social skills. Sometimes what breaks a man's mind is not a lecture from some space monster on his insignificance but simply his inability to leave his apartment.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)15:47 No.13532220
    What's wrong with this >>13513036 ?
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)15:59 No.13532309

    I find the first part to be a little *too* involved, as higher amounts of Madness would require some rather heavy work. Degeneration rolls don't just happen over anything, no matter what those opposed to the Morality system may think. That said, it makes hanging around Changelings an absolute delight, as so many things screw up their mental balance. The willpower substitutes are fine, though a bit vague.

    It also confuses Madness for madness a bit. Getting a derangement means you are crazy, yes, but it doesn't mean you've perverted natural law or actually done anything.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)16:04 No.13532350

    I like the first selection, but I wouldn't agree with the sect-specific ones. Because, to me they seem either a little hard to reflect mechanically, or just a little too hard to actually define.


    You're right, basically as long as an Outsider is doing something in such a way as to cause Madness, it should work, which should let most people use alternative methods.

    Like hunting down some poor bastard with Survival, almost letting him get away and then catching him again. Or utilising horrible alien Science to break a poor physics professor's mind. Or torturing some pitiful wretch with Weaponry or something. Or building some impossible structure with Crafts.
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)18:46 No.13533914
    >> Anonymous 01/15/11(Sat)21:56 No.13535700
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    Will return with new content shortly
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)00:24 No.13537106
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    [Astral Voyage]
    Cost: 1M per target
    You have travel through the Dreamlands and can return there in spirit, even bringing others with you on occasion. Only works on willing targets. Ranks: (•) You fall asleep and create an projection of yourself in the Dreamlands, able to see and speak but not interact pr be harmed, (••) You bodily enter the Dreamlands leaving the mortal world behind, but return after one hour, injuries remains even after waking, (•••) You can remain in the Freamlands indefinitely, your Dreamland bodies heal upon leaving and returning , (••••) When in the Dreamlands you are a mental projection of yourself having superior physical skills (become equal to corresponding mental skills), (•••••) You can mentally alter the terrain of the Dreamlands, If you would die you instead wake up
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)00:45 No.13537341
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    [Head Trip]
    Cost: 3M
    You can banish or call an individual to or from the Dreamlands even against their will. The effect may be permanent at higher ranks, leaving those unskilled in Dreamland manipulation stranded. Targets banished from the Dreamlands return the last place they were before entering them. To determine success roll your Wits + Resolve + Occult against the target's Wits + Resolve + Occult (with metanormal advantage). If the target is willing, the success is automatic. Ranks: (•) On success target falls asleep for a period of one hour, lost in the Dreamlands as a projection. Damage awakens them. (only works in the waking world), (••) On success banish target bodily into or out of the Dreamlands for a period of one hour, (•••) On success, call the target to your location (must be used on a target not in the same world as you that you know by name) , (••••) The target is banished or called permanently or for any duration, (•••••) Banish the target to a pocket Dreamland of your own devising for any duration
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)01:12 No.13537584
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    [Pierce the Veil]
    Cost: 1M per rank
    You have the ability to see and manipulate the dreams of sleepers. You can guide a dreamers mind in its most vulnerable state to learn many secrets. Ranks: (•) While in the dreamlands you can see the projections of sleepers and hear what they say, they will respond to simple yes or no questions, (••) You can speak with projections freely and they will always treat you as friendly, (•••) You can see the current dream of a projection or sleeping person and hear their internal thoughts, all abilities of this rejection can also be used on sleepers in the waking world, (••••) You can sculpt the dreams of a projection or sleeping person in any manner you want and hear their internal thoughts about them, (•••••) You can create a nightmare for a sleeping person, causing damage to their psyche. They become unable to dream without the intervention of an outsider and gradually lose sanity.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)01:15 No.13537607
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    [Ethereal Sanctum]
    Cost: 4M + 1M for every 4 individuals allowed entrance
    Create a pocket dimension of Dreamland (often called Spheres) that and other individuals of your choosing may enter instead of the normal Dreamlands. Spheres are often used as secure locations for communication, private places of safety for rest, or housings of cults (though it is difficult to accommodate large numbers). At higher ranks this can also include where your projection goes to during normal sleep (if still required) to prevent unwanted incursions from others. The outsider can only maintain a single pocket dreamland at a time, as it is sustained by their mind, and cannot destroy it while a person occupies it. Death of the outsider results in immediate collapse of the pocket dreamland. Ranks: (•) You create a Sphere completely devoid of detail , (••) Your projections during normal sleeping appear in your Sphere, (•••), The Sphere is shaped, filled, and furnished in anyway the outsider desires, but objects cannot be removed (••••), Time can be made to travel at any rate the outsider chooses within the Sphere (•••••) You can enter or leave the Sphere at will without use of a rejection
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)01:30 No.13537765
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    [Borrowed Shell]
    Cost: 1M per rank per hour sustained
    You can possess the body of a sleeper, retaining your own mind but having full control over the physical shell of another. By stepping into a projection in the Dreamlands or, at higher ranks, placing a hand on their forehead, you occupy their empty physical form. The sleeper remains unaware of the seizure of their body, remaining a projection in the Dreamland for the duration of their sleep. Death while occupying a different body results in the death of the outsider. Ranks: (•) You cannot use rejections and max duration is one hour, (••) You can use simple (Rank 1) rejections, but the possessed body loses Quiescence, (•••) You can remain in possession of the body until the host would normally wake up (usually 8 hours from time of sleep), (••••) you have slight access to the memories of the person possessed and are able to imitate their mannerisms well, (•••••) You can remain in the body even after the person wakes up. You cannot control them physically but can continue to make suggestions to them mentally and hear their thoughts. When the host returns to sleep, you are also forced back into the Dreamlands.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)01:39 No.13537856
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    Ugh, I just realized I completely forgot to put Mythos into these rolls. Oh well. They're all rough drafts anyways for ideas more than anything.

    One last bump for the night. Hope this gets enough interest to make it to morning.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)01:47 No.13537968
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    Bump, I like what I am reading here.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)02:25 No.13538407
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    bump in the night
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)02:52 No.13538729
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    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)03:11 No.13538910
    A bump before I head off to work
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)04:27 No.13539476
    This system of upgrading Rejections intrigues me evermore. Tho we might have to be careful of how high we set the XP cost, if it's too high it might hamper variety.
    So, do Outsiders have access only to the Schools of Subversion favored by their Sect, or do we allow them to acquire Rejections from other schools as well (tho at an increased cost)?

    How does this affect dreamers that died but choose to live on in the Dreamlands?

    I say we rename this one [Inception]. :P

    This works better as a merit.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)04:51 No.13539604
    Let me try reworking one of the Rejections we already have in this format:

    [Mother's Milk]
    Cost:1M per Dot
    Duration: Scene

    From somewhere on your person, you lactate a milky substance similar to the milk of Shub-Niggurath. Imbibing it yourself has no effect, but should anyone else drink it, they need to roll Stamina + Resolve, the Milk strengthens and warps their being, but reverts them to a more primal, animalistic state of mind. (•) On a failure, they take a -2 penalty to all Mental rolls, but a +2 bonus on all Physical rolls,On a success, they still suffer a -1 penalty to Mental rolls, and a +1 bonus to Physical rolls. (••)Bonuses and penalties increase to by one. (•••) In addition to the previous effects, the imbiber gets an Mutation (Asset) on a successful roll, if the roll fails he also gains a Mutation (Liability) (••••) Number of mutations double. (•••••) Bonuses increase by an other point.
    If at any time the imbiber is reduced to minimum intelligence he looses all inhibitions and attacks anyone in sight except the Outsider. Alternative methods of control are needed if you wish to direct his wrath.

    This should probably be treated as a YotT exclusive.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)05:44 No.13539894
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    Hi guys. You also might be able to cannibalize Demon: The Earthbound for ideas. I'll post a few.

    Primal Mind: The character can make contact
    with the small part of a mortal’s mind that
    retains its ignorance, that remembers what it is to
    live only to survive like a beast. To use this feature,
    the Earthbound must physically touch its intended
    target. The player rolls the character’s Torment,
    while the mortal resists with a Willpower roll. If the
    Earthbound wins, the human loses all Knowledges
    and most Skills (though Abilities like Stealth or
    Survival may remain at the Storyteller’s discretion)
    for one scene, and generally acts on survival instinct
    — fleeing from fire, attacking with tooth and claw if
    cornered, et cetera.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)05:45 No.13539903
    Reaper’s Breath: The Earthbound can exhale a
    chilling breath that affects victims up to 10 feet away.
    Mortals and demons caught in the path of the exhalation
    suffer a number of health levels of bashing damage
    equal to the character’s Faith. This feature can be used
    only once per scene, and it has no effect on creatures
    that do not breathe.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)05:46 No.13539910
    • Ink Cloud: The Earthbound can spit a cloud of
    black ink that hangs in the air and blinds its foes.
    Individuals within a number of feet equal to the
    character’s Faith score are blinded for 10 turns, unless
    a successful Stamina roll is made. The cloud of ink
    lingers in the air for 10 turns.

    Eyes of Fate: The Earthbound knows instinctively
    whether a given being is important to its plans.
    The player rolls Perception + Awareness (difficulty 6).
    If successful, the character gains a general sense of
    whether or not a target is potentially important to the
    Earthbound’s current plans or goals. As a side effect,
    the Eyes of Fate can often detect whether or not a
    mortal has an especially high Faith pool (at the
    Storyteller’s discretion).
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)05:51 No.13539944
    Also once you get into possible motivations for the Outsiders, see page 78 of Earthbound under Urges.

    The Urge of Thought is a craving for intellectual
    stimulation, taken to fetishistic extremes. Earthbound
    think, of course, but in alien ways that hold no satisfaction.
    They long to experience linear time, to interpret
    beauty and horror through a physical brain and to ferret
    out the answers that elude them in their inanimate
    cages. Earthbound with a strong Urge of Thought
    exhibit overwhelming curiosity about things, asking
    questions and demanding immediate answers. They
    might be found watching seven televisions at once or
    vivisecting a living subject to study her anatomy and
    listen to her screams. The bonus dots from the Urge of
    Thought apply to the Mental Attributes: Perception,
    Intelligence and Wits.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)05:55 No.13539975
    >You also might be able to cannibalize Demon: The Earthbound for ideas.
    Yeah, meant to do it at some point.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)06:07 No.13540046
    Oh, just to point out the fact how much rarer Outsiders are when compared to other supernaturals: Canonically there were 12 human Sheppards of the Silver Key in the whole existence of the species. (Source: "Through the Gates of the Silver Key" tho I'm not sure if the Whateley brothers are counted here)
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)07:45 No.13540647
    >> Not really experienced White wolf ST 01/16/11(Sun)08:48 No.13540930
    Well if we are going this way, I am ok with this but let me fix it a bit,
    [Mother's Milk]
    Cost:1M per Dot
    Duration: Scene

    From somewhere on your person, you lactate a milky substance similar to the milk of Shub-Niggurath. Imbibing it yourself has no effect, but should anyone else drink it, they need to roll Stamina + Resolve(Mythos not needed), the Milk strengthens and warps their being, but reverts them to a more primal, animalistic state of mind.
    Critical Failure: The Drinker only get -2 to all Mental rolls
    Failure: Nothing happens (he may try again)
    Success: The drinker get both a penalty to mental rolls equal to -2 and a bonus to physical rolls equal to +2
    exceptional success: Drinker gets only the benefits
    (••)Bonuses and penalties increase to by one. (•••)
    Critical Failure: The Drinker only get -3 to all Mental rolls and a mutation (Liability)
    Failure: Nothing happens (he may try again)
    Success: The drinker get both a penalty to mental rolls equal to -3, a bonus to physical rolls equal to +3 and Two mutations (Liability, Asset)
    exceptional success: Drinker gets only the benefits
    (••••) Number of mutations double.
    (•••••) Bonuses increase by an other point.
    If at any time the imbiber is reduced to minimum intelligence he looses all inhibitions and attacks anyone in sight except the Outsider. Alternative methods of control are needed if you wish to direct his wrath, stats are capped by the Maximum stats(Look mythos chart) of the Outsider.

    For all non White Wolf players, a Critical Failure is when there are no successes and a 1 or more
    an exceptional success is when you get +5 more success than needed.
    Also, We might say that this rejections are a way to catalyze the power of rejections while someone that doesn't know this rejections (We might have to change the names as it is confusing) may use just the raw power of the rejections... But that might be getting to be a bit like Mage.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)09:03 No.13541000
    Hmm, it should be specified that the fluid itself doesn't retain magical proprieties for very long, so no harvesting ad infinitum.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)09:22 No.13541131
    Erm, if there's a mutation system, why formally dictate how Outsiders change in response to lower Quiescence? It doesn't feel like there's any reason to railroad players into a specific outcome when you have a (probably extensive) list of mutations that accomplish the same thing but maintain some player control.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)09:32 No.13541193
    Not sure I understand your question correctly.
    There is a maximum number of mutations a single outsider can gain from Rejections. The Mutations linked to Mythos are bonus ones, while the negative ones linked to Quiescence are an alternative or in addition to gaining Derangements from loss of 'morality' stat.
    Because it fits the flavor of the setting.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)10:01 No.13541358

    Okay, some of my confusion was from focusing more on the "Appearance" section of the current splat write ups, which feel awfully railroady. I mean, Quiescence 5 is only two degeneration rolls away, and the mutations described there make it extremely difficult to interact with society. Upon considering the rest of the thread this might not be so much of a problem, particularly with the idea of each group having a special list of mutations to draw from.

    I don't know if that was formally approved, but if not I'll throw my support behind it. It's important that each group be recognizably different, especially at the lower levels of Quiescence, but players should never feel like they have no control over how their characters change.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)10:16 No.13541455
    Appearance is there as more of a guide line than a rule.
    For instance, a particular Sect might have access to size increase, tentacles, and slime secretions, one outsider can select tentacle three times or maybe, an other might take one of each, but as the amount of them increases so does the probability that all of them will have at least some of each, resulting in a final form that would be recognizably influenced by their patron god.
    Or at least that is the hope. :P
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)10:20 No.13541477

    A suggestion for mutations: Maybe lowering Quiescence leads to the character acquiring random drawback mutations, while beneficial mutations will need to be paid for with XP? The drawback mutations will enable getting the beneficial ones. If your face is a featureless blob (drawback), you'll now be able to purchace mouths in your hands or eyes on your fingers or something.
    >> Not really experienced White wolf ST 01/16/11(Sun)10:36 No.13541574
    Then we have a Monk 3.5e , a guy that looks like it haves a lot of cool abilities but not enough points to spend on them, I was guessing that the bonus mutations were enough, maybe making "Mutation Flow charts" might make it better, like upgrading known mutations, but I didn't want Mutations to be the main thing about Outsiders, it was something like, the inability of reality to stop you as you grow more powerful. The Q mutations are more like... well Don't know I am not good with fluf, was thinking you broke reality so bad you suffred some changes? don't know =8

    While we are at this, What do you think should happen at 0 Q, for what I think it should be something a bit different from other Splats (Normally you just go batshit insane and kill everything ), you just, go to sleep as your surroundings twist an change, reality just puts you to sleep until it can't hold you anymore (When stars are right)
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)10:43 No.13541609

    0 Quiescence is essentially you revealing your true nature to yourself and the universe. Or rather, your true nature forcing itself out of you. And your true nature is such that it is impossible to comprehend with a human mind. Including your own human mind. You become completely alien, completely unknowable. Completely Lovecraftian.

    Also, all of reality rejects your very existence with the power of an angry god.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)10:49 No.13541646
    What happens exactly would depend on how high your Displacement is.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)11:08 No.13541787

    Ah, good. Given the WoD's focus on social interaction as I was a little worried Outsider would essentially devolve into a constant cover-up of your tentacular limbs.


    How would that work? Reality accepts a weak Cthulhu, but not a strong one?
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)11:11 No.13541816
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    Hooray! The thread is still here! I guess I'll stat out one of the remaining 5 sample rejection groups. Any requests?

    >>13511702 -Hypergeometry
    >>13511931 -Superpositon
    >>13512003 - Polymorphim
    >>13512077 -Corruption
    >>13512149 -Violation

    If not I'll just do Hypergeometery since its next in line.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)11:12 No.13541824

    Well, yeah. There's the bit about the Stars being Right: at some point reality will have changed to accommodate the Elder Gods and their alien worshipers manifesting themselves. Maybe the Outsiders are the key to making the Stars right, by subtly altering reality and paving the way for the arrival of their, uh, parents or whatever it is.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)11:14 No.13541840
    Superposition or Corruption don't have any rejections yet, so if you feel inspired try that.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)11:36 No.13542060

    Sin Eaters would hate them because they actively defy death and mess with the balance of life.
    Prometheans would hate them because they look JUST like Pandorans.
    Hunters would hate them because human sacrifice and such.
    Changelings would hate them because they resemble the Fae in method and in nature.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)11:42 No.13542116
    I think, if you look at it, each rejection type has a different way of bringing the Outer Gods/Old Ones back into reality.

    Communion: Able to follow directions from the ancients themselves to make the stars right.
    Mindscape: Subtly alter the minds of the mortal world until there are none that would not herald their arrival.
    Dreamscape: Shape the dreams of the world that the terrors that manifest readily in the mind might manifest in reality.
    Hypergeometry: Directly open the gates from other dimensions into this one.
    Superposition: Search through time for when the stars will be right and bring that time closer.
    Polymorphism: Eventually, through mutations, the forms of the outer gods will be born anew.
    Corruption: Shape and taint the mortal world until it is fit for the residence of the old ones.
    Violation: Alter the basic laws of physics until they allow the unnatural state that governs outsiders.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)11:52 No.13542210
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    [Paradox Glimpse]
    Cost: 1M(Rank 1-2), 2M(Rank 3), 4M(Rank 4-5)
    You know the finite winding nature of time and how it folds back upon itself. You peer through these waves of time to look at what may be, gaining brief glimpses of the future of yourself and others. Ranks: (•) You may re-roll a single die at anytime within the scene, (••) You immediately recognize if a person is important to your current schemes or if an outsider has a large pool of Madness, (•••) You gain an insight bonus on a single roll in the scene adding an extra die, (••••) You foresee the actions of a single target giving you an extra die against any effects they target you with for the duration of the scene, (•••••) You have a supernatural awareness of a given location, giving you an extra die on all rolls made within the area for the duration of the scene
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)11:57 No.13542242
    What is the difference between 3 & 4?
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)11:59 No.13542255
    >Major Changes on reality

    What? This is basically telling the players to never use their powers.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:04 No.13542281

    It depends on what a "major change" is. Also, not all character types would be bothered by low Quiescence. It needs to be better defined, but it seems to be worse than causing an area to stop reflecting "reality".
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:04 No.13542284
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    [Sift through Ages]
    Cost: 1M per Rank
    You have a strong awareness of the flow of time and can pick up on things that you should be able to remember, and yet you do. The ancient secrets of the lost ways are all around you, you need only look at them as they once were. Ranks: (•) You know every person you meet in a given location by name, where they live, and their profession for the duration of the scene, (••) You know the exact location of any one object anywhere in the world as well as where it has been, (•••) You know the life history of a mortal or of an outsider only before they became an outsider, must know the target's name, if used on an outsider they are immediately made aware of your probing of their past, (••••) You search the histories of those you have interacted with to know when you are being sought and by whom, (•••••) You can erase the history of a dead person at will. They will cease to have ever existed. The time stream will alter such that all of their accomplishments were accomplished by others. You can also do this to your own past if you so desire. You are also able to known when others have done this, as you can see the tell-tale strings where the time stream has been altered.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:05 No.13542292
    3 is only for a single roll (you forsee an action you carry out), 4 is for all rolls opposed by a specific individual (you have seen their every move)
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:06 No.13542299
    er... first line should say "shouldn't be able to remember"
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:07 No.13542308
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    Depends on what you interpret as major.
    Causing this in the middle of New York, by shifting the Empire State Building into the Abyss shouldn't be that small a fear.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:12 No.13542331
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    This one has Randolf Carter written all over it.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:14 No.13542340
    Wow, I like this one very much.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:18 No.13542363
    >Outsiders might be outwardly powerful, but they've got to manage the fact that nearly everyone hates your guts.

    No no no no no. "Everyone hates your guts" is Promethean's theme and they don't get any more power than the other types.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:21 No.13542381
    Forgot about >>13530642
    Mages only need to buy the rank and they can then cast any spell from that level. You might be thinking about vampire rituals.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:23 No.13542392
    As someone experinced with nWoD crunch, would you like me to review things so far?

    I have to say, I won't be kind.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:26 No.13542400
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    [Time Skip]
    Cost: 3M per Rank
    You are adept at not only looking through time, but briefly traveling through it. When targeting another, roll Wits + Presence vs Resolve + Mythos. Ranks: (•) You step forward in time to avoid harm but cannot act during the following round, (••) You send a target forward in time by one round per Mythos level of caster, (•••) You and a single foe step out of time for a number of rounds equal to your Mythos, isolating the two of you from all others and leaving everything else frozen, you cannot harm anyone other than the target and the target, you, but during this time though you both can use abilities normally on each other, (••••) You may travel back in time to assist yourself, for one minute a second you appears before stepping back into its normal time, after the one minute duration you are pulled back in time by one minute (effectively you have two of your for one minute and then disappear for one minute), (•••••) You may have up to three of yourself exist simultaneously for one minute, though there must follow a two minute period in which you are out of time.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:26 No.13542403
    >I have to say, I won't be kind.

    Do you know the difference between constructive criticism and being a self-important asshat? If so, continue.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:27 No.13542408
    >Outsiders are far stronger than most other supernaturals

    Then something has gone wrong.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:27 No.13542409
    >I have to say, I won't be kind.
    Precisely what we need.
    Tho note that this thread has changed much and the main document isn't yet updated.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:28 No.13542417
    I personally would love some input. The power levels are obviously way out of balance here and need some reigning in. A lot will likely have to be redone from scratch as right now there seem to be many many ideas with little coordination between them.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:28 No.13542419
    I think that was a misinterpretation, the goal would be to make them somewhere in par with mages.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:30 No.13542429
    >the difference between constructive criticism and being a self-important asshat?
    Well, different people have different levels of sensitivity. I've been on fora where people are banned for suggesting that a certain writer's work isn't the best part of a large gameline. I thought he was being quite reasonable, but the mods obviously disagreed.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:32 No.13542447
    we are hardly the best of writers or professional game designers, there is little pride (at least on my part)
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:32 No.13542448
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    Actually, yeah, this has been a particularly productive thread. It's very crunch heavy for /tg/'s usual work as mostly we just argue about fluff.

    Also, stop saying Outsiders are more powerful than other splats. They are going to have very far reaching impacts with what they do accomplish, yes, but just as much of what they do will have to be carefully calculated and extensively covered up to not draw the attention and suspicions that such impacts would natural arouse.

    Their actual powers are great, yes, but also very expensive with only one or two weak ones that can be used repeatedly or relying on mutations for defense.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:34 No.13542460
    I've looked into these threads before and have argued that the first and most inportant part of homebrew is creating a game bible of rules to be followed, themes to stick to and mechanics for powers. People seemed to pay some attention, but I didn't see anything actually written down.

    Anyway, I'll start by looking through this thread.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:38 No.13542491
    > I didn't see anything actually written down.
    Because until recently we were a few guys coordinating the whole effort and were pretty in accord with what we were going for, tho now that a few others have joined it's something we should do sooner rather than later.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)12:53 No.13542598
    >Outsider: The Calling
    Not crunch, but I like the name Outsider: the Unnamed.

    Are there going to be any powers associated with these?

    Seems to cover all the main bases.


    Powers related to knowledge and communication. Would summoning fit in here?

    The Mage mind arcana. Can very easily overpower everything else. To limit its power and stick with the themes, try to keep it brutal.

    How does this interact with Changeling and Mage?

    The Mage Space arcanum.

    Mage Time arcanum? Remember that WoD is very firm on the issue of consequences. Traveling more than a few seconds back in time is also beyond player characters

    Life arcanum with an emphasis on body horror. Try looking at Promethean. Pandoran transmutions in particular, but Metamorphosis and Corporeum also contain lots of good body horror.

    Interesting. No real absolute parallels. Promethean has some flux corruption mechanics which fit well. There are some powers which deal with disease.

    Assorted unclassified stuff? Ok.

    >Travel through irregular angles, avoiding and confounding foes
    Sounds like Hypergeometry.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)12:57 No.13542617
    What would you guys propose as the basic design philosophies?

    -Outsiders are strong, but not stronger than mages. They should win if they have the element of surprise, but lose if the mages are prepared
    -Outsiders are unnatural. By their nature they are a blight and a pox on any location they inhabit, even if they are opposed to their own nature
    -Outsiders can be versatile or focused but not both. Devotion to a specific sect can give a balance between the two, though is not required.
    -Outsiders can not break out into mass open chaos. Not only will everyone quickly unify against them, but their own nature becomes more difficult to sustain in reality.
    -Outsiders do not have Morals, but the must abide by the laws of their dimension that they inhabit. Failure to do so has consequences.
    -Outsiders of higher Mythos cannot have lower quiescence for long periods of time. You must hide your form or leave the dimension

    Also, this raises the question: Does leaving the mortal dimension allow you to not lose Quiescence for powerful rejections and the like since you are no longer in the natural world?
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:09 No.13542710

    I though Outsiders weren't Cthulhu yet, but rather people who have become bound to beings like him? Skipping the Morality aspect really overlooks a major potential story arc for them.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:09 No.13542716

    >Are there going to be any powers associated with these?
    This was proposed for now >>13521981
    >Would summoning fit in here?
    Summoning is a Ritual, which differ from Rejections in the fact that it can be used by non Outsiders under the proper conditions and are longer to perform

    >How does this interact with Changeling and Mage?
    Something to be determined, but I'd say it would affect Astral traveling mages as if they ere dreaming and the Hedge would essentially count as the outer border of the Dreamlands.

    >-Outsiders are strong, but not stronger than mages. They should win if they have the element of surprise, but lose if the mages are prepared

    I see Outsiders as slow but capable of delivering a strong punch. While Mages are versatile and quick they have smaller energy pools, while Outsiders have large ones, but are more difficult to fill.
    Sort of 'Death by a thousand cuts' vs 'wrecking ball' kind of thing.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:14 No.13542743
    >While Mages are versatile and quick they have smaller energy pools, while Outsiders have large ones, but are more difficult to fill.

    I approve of this distinction

    Also, if we ARE going to included morality is it going to be linked directly to quiescence or are they independent?
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:15 No.13542752
    Old morality is represented in the Factions, specifically the Deniers, but by being bound to an Outer God your views on life are altered, you just don't have the same instinctual ties to what others perceive as normal, tho you might strive to be.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:20 No.13542784
    One proposal is to use both Quiescence and morality,
    but some seem to think it might overcomplicate things.
    The other is to regulate derangement with Quiescence with an option of acquiring negative mutations as an alternative.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)13:22 No.13542792
    >General x splats
    Ok. Will the splats have unique abilities, like Werewolf, Changeling or Promethean blessings?

    >their compulsion to see Cthulhu awaken and R’lyeh rise from the depths.
    Locks them out from all but one Faction.

    >Quiescence 05: Enlarged head, grayish green skin, tentacle like protrusions on the face, wing stumps on the back.
    Very fast rate of decay. Unless you're making it very hard to lose Q, player characters will have serious problems with social interaction almost imediately. Either tone down the decay rate or include some natural Mask mechanic. Actually, this applies to all the X splats.

    >Displacement is the gap between Quiescence and Mythos.
    Considering how most player characters will never have more than 4/5 Mythos and characters with less than 4/5 Q are already horribly mutated, this is a bad idea. Some form of Displacement mechanic would be good.

    >heal pretty much any damage they take by letting their alien side take over and spending madness.
    Maybe. Spending M to heal would fit with the rest of the nWoD. Question: How tough are Outsiders meant to be?

    >Perhaps they could be able to survive in a vacuum?
    Potential Rejection. Probably not an innate ability, though it could be innate for the Shepards.

    >Assume Q 0 form
    Ok, as long as it's not too easy. Sacrificing Q might be enough of a balance.

    >This loss DOES provoke a Displacement check with a +2 penalty.
    This appears to be meaningless thus far. Displacement mechanics needed. Paradox can act as a base, but Paradox is perhaps too weak.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:27 No.13542828
    >include some natural Mask mechanic.
    I'm reluctant to do that, since it's a recurring theme in Lovecraft that alien entities try to mask their presence with mundane masks of varying quality.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:30 No.13542844
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    The Cthulhu calling is meant to just be a compulsion, the Outsiders don't HAVE to act upon it but it is constantly there in the back of their heads.

    >Either tone down the decay rate or include some natural Mask mechanic.
    These are old example hold overs from earlier ideas. There are now ways to mask true appearance and what mutations you acquire are voluntary, giving you the option for more concealable ones.

    >Question: How tough are Outsiders meant to be?
    I believe the idea for Outsiders was Glass Canons, through and through

    This mechanic needs a lot of work, and soon. There is a lot of reliance on it as the big bad thing to fear hanging over everyone's heads but as of yet the actual mechanic itself has no crunch to it.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:38 No.13542906
    When they refer to Azathoth as nuclear, they do not mean as in nuclear power or nuclear weapons (as we recognize it). Nuclear as in nucleus, he is the center and heart of the universe.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:41 No.13542928
    Yeah, we know.
    What prompted this statement?
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:42 No.13542937
    The way it's worded doesn't seem to signify that, but it's just a way its read thing.

    And I'm fairly sure not everyone knows it (particularly if they've read him as personification of big bang).
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:44 No.13542948
    That is pretty much copied word for word from Lovercarft unless I'm mistaken.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:45 No.13542951
    Huh, you're right. It does seem a bit oddly worded. Well, fluff is an axillary matter for now, but its good to keep in mind.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)13:48 No.13542984
    Does this grant control over the creature? Hard to judge without stats these creatures.
    Is beastmaster meant to be a viable playstyle? Or is summoning meant to be useful but limited?

    >A possible system may be as follows:
    Seems ok. Difficult to aquire M, but that's already considered. Systems for mental health levels may be needed. They're needed in nWoD in general actually. This gameline could be a good place to homebrew some up.

    >Madness itself would be hard to acquire, given how little you would regularly need to spend.
    This needs to be considered in all aspects of Rejection design.

    >Shepard of the Silver Key- Madness opens all gates.
    >Gain Madness by acquiring knowledge of the Outer Gods
    This means that Shepards would naturally be Dreamers.

    As mentioned before in the x splat review, it's best not to lock each x splat to a single y splat. Having them naturally tend towards one Faction is ok.

    >Young of the Thousand
    >Gain Madness by causing it in others.

    >Scion of the Yellow Sign
    >Gain Madness by indulging it.
    Isn't Hastur traditionally the specialist at causing madness? Wouldn't his chosen gain most from it?
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)13:50 No.13542995
    Quiescence - Sin
    >10----------Use of Rejections
    Doesn't fit with the source material. Nyarlathotep in the eponymous book is likely Q 10. He is makes heavy use of Rejections. There are other examples.

    >09----------Use of Rejections for mundane things

    >08----------Cause a Derangement
    Again, doesn't fit with the source.

    >07----------Taking on the Quiescence 0 form temporarily
    This always causes Q loss, a la diablerie. Would be rank 0 if anything.

    >06----------Perceivable change in reality
    This would limit players to subtle Rejections if they want to stay human. Ok, if this is considered elsewhere.

    >05----------Human Sacrifice

    >04----------Cause an area to loose Quiescence
    What does this mean?

    >03----------Major alteration of reality
    See 6.

    >02----------Repeating indulgence of the previous sins

    >01----------Willfully endanger the fabric of creation
    Means it is very hard to become unplayable.

    >General theme
    They lose humanity as they utilise greater power. Fits the source.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)13:52 No.13543016
    >While Mages are versatile and quick they have smaller energy pools,

    Mages are not versatile and quick. They are truely powerful when they have preparation time.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)13:53 No.13543029
    To be more precise, that's how they are meant to be. Improvised magic is meant to be hard and inefficient, while rituals are meant to be very powerful. How this works out in play in a different matter.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)13:58 No.13543064
    >Reading up on the opinions of various factions.

    I like how you added a large political system. I mentioned in an earlier thread why Outsiders would have fluid loyalties and would easily create alliances, at least, faster than most WoD creatures.

    Good to see this implemented, very interesting. I can already see a Werewolf/Young of the Thousand combo campaign taking place around ousting a Vampire Prince who's outstepped his bounds.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)14:09 No.13543144
    >04----------Cause an area to loose Quiescence
    >What does this mean?
    Something we should really put in the file:
    >One thing we did talk about in the IRC, and briefly mentioned in the Document, was the idea that places could be shifted and affected by Quiescence in the same way Outsiders are. Whether it's a damned old Church that was the site of some horrendous ritual two centuries ago and that disappeared from the mortal world, or a place like Atlantis or the City of the Elder Things. Outsiders can still see these and enter them with the right rituals, since they're somewhat similarly out of step with reality. Other supernaturals and mortals can also enter them but it takes much more powerful rituals or the luck of a plot device to let them in. Some Outsiders take these places and make them their own, using them like Safehouses to hide in.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)14:13 No.13543171
    >M02: need to eat, breathe, sleep, or drink.
    Ok. Might also fit as a Rejection or supernatural Merit.

    >M04: One of the five senses (ditching one sense allows you to heighten one of the remaining senses)
    Perhaps allow senses to be exchanged for para-human senses, such as electrosensitivity, etc.

    >M06: Speech,
    Would this grant a form of telepathy in exhange?

    >emotion, pain,
    Could be ok.

    >ability to reproduce
    Why would anyone choose this? Would it give you some advantage?

    >M10: That is not dead which can eternal lie. [Biological Immortality]
    I would suggest an enhanced lifespan tied to mythos. Otherwise, ok.

    See Pandoran Transmutions. Ignor Perfected Bezoars. *shudder* If no-one here is familiar with Pandorans, I'll go through mutations in more detail.

    Perhaps, rather than a number of mutations you could give mutations a dot ranking. Each Outsider would have a number of dots inversly proportional to Q. Extra dots can be gained through Polymorphism.


    This makes sense. Mortals with the merit could also cast rituals.

    >2- Use a minor rejection to murder someone mundane (1 die)
    Why? Q represents how alien you are. Murder is very human.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)14:21 No.13543225
    Outsiders shouldn't necessarily be glass cannons.

    Most of them, sure, but some of them should have certain tricks or mutations that make them nigh invulnerable.

    Some young of a thousand should have exceptionally vigorous metabolisms, or the ability to rearrange their internal organs and biologies. These mutations should give them the abilities to variously regenerate damage or downgrade the severity of an injury (from aggravated or whatever the current equivalent is).

    Star Spawned savants could be part deep one and gain enhanced mundane durability, or be partially made of star-stuff themselves and simply be able to momentarily turn into a noxious mist and evade mundane physical threats.

    Silver Key Shepards could simply take quick, possibly instinctive jaunts through time to not be there when the blow lands.

    Courtiers of the Dark Pharaoh would mostly be squishy humans, but some of them might have access to Mi-Go brain canister tech, meaning that you have to destroy the brain to prevent the outsider from coming back. Exceptional individuals might have mind clones so that permanently killing them becomes very difficult.

    Everyone would have access to a ritual that can turn people into Essential Saltes. It doesn't increase your durability, but it is a good way to lie low and can be a sort of technical immortality.

    Anyhow, my point is that the majority of Outsiders should be squishy, but there should be paths some can take that make them very, very tough indeed.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)14:25 No.13543252
    That's a given, but they are naturally tough, they must expend power for it.

    >monstrous criter
    yes they are captcha
    >> Bit reakkt good White Wolf ST 01/16/11(Sun)14:32 No.13543299
    Don't worry, that chart kinda continued evolving.
    This is kinda the final draft of that chart.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)14:33 No.13543310
    It's also a recurring theme that anyone who encounters the mythos goes crazy. Think along the lines of Lunacy, not changeling.

    >I believe the idea for Outsiders was Glass Canons, through and through

    Why? Not complaining, just asking.

    Really, we need a system for Rejections. The system should come first, then the powers.

    >Servant: Bonus on gathering Madness
    Ok. As Madness seems to be rare, 1 extra point per successful gathering could be enough.

    >Master: Extra point of Madness per Mythos
    No precedent for anything like this. Also, if pools will generally not be full, it is of dubious utility. Perhaps a discount on a chosen type of Rejection would work better, though if costs are generally low, maybe not. Bonus dice on chosen family of Rejections?

    >Rebel: More resistant to Rejections
    Ok. Perhaps the Tummaz would be a good baseline, though they are very powerful. 9-again on resistance rolls, or an increase in resistance attributes for passive resistance. Tummaz double the attribute. Would this resistance also cover the powers of other supernaturals?

    >Denier: Extra die to resist a Quiescence degeneration
    I can see where this is comming from, but Deniers should also be the least likely to actually commit sins.

    Actually, on that note, I see no reason why deniers should be a viable splat. No other gameline allows player to escape their nature.

    >Dreamer: Bonus on resisting the effects of Displacement when on an other plane of existence
    I would expand this to all planes of existence, as it is of very restricted use as it is. Other planes of reality will naturally respond differently to Displacement anyway.
    >> Bit really good White Wolf ST 01/16/11(Sun)14:34 No.13543316
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)14:34 No.13543319
    I just realized that the quiescence mechanic makes it very vital for outsiders to trick, convince, force mortals into carrying out their more powerful rituals or deeds such that they themselves are not interfering in the mortal world. This fits the Lovecraft setting very well thematically.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)14:41 No.13543372
    > Would this resistance also cover the powers of other supernaturals?
    It would be nice, but i don't know the other lines well enough to say how it would affect balance.

    >No other gameline allows player to escape their nature.
    Na outsider with 10Q is still an Outsider.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)14:47 No.13543418
    The only true escape from being an outsider is death. for this reason, I have said before that deniers would make a poor choice for a player character. But maybe the idea doesn't need to be changed that much. they could be appreciators of the natural beauty of the world that don;t want to see it become corrupted. Or maybe they want peaceful coexistence between outsiders and humanity.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)14:49 No.13543437
    I've been informed the chart keeps evolving. I'll review the final version.

    >LVL---Stat Max--- Max Mad/Per turn---Displacement
    >1------- 5 ------------ 5/1 -------------------- 0
    What? 5 madness maximum? Every splat starts with 10. Every splat. The relative power of each point is made up for not by reducing the storage ability, but by increasing the ease of aquisition.
    >2------- 5 ------------ 10/2 ----------------------0
    The current, and so far best, nWoD paradigm is a more rapid increase in maximum powerpoints. Mythos two should have 11 at the mimimum, maybe 12.

    >3 ------ 5 ------------ 15/3--------------------- +1
    Displacement increase is early. Most splats start gaining disadvantages at around 5.

    >4------- 5------------- 20/4--------------------- +1
    Now the storage is increasing very rapidly. Traditionally it's more like an exponential, but this way could work. It would mean powerful characters are more within reach.

    >6------- 5------------- 35/7--------------------- +2
    Needs the increase in maximum stats. Even mages get that.
    Actually, I see you fixed that later on. Good.

    >7------- 5------------- 45/9-------------------- +2
    >8------- 5 ------------ 60/11--------------------- +3
    >9------- 5 ------------ 85/13------------------ +3
    >10------ 5 ---------- 100/15------------------ +3
    Displacement doesn't increase very rapidly. +3 at level 10 is lower than most. Considering the early onset of displacement increase, I would have assumed a +5 at Mythos 10.

    Again, see Pandoran. It's the current nWoD home of everything body horror.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)14:57 No.13543509
    >Most splats start gaining disadvantages at around 5.
    The version in the file starts with 4, tho it could still be bumped up, tho I would put a max of +4 on 10 since I fear it will be difficult to balance with quiescence. Not to mention that 5 is the border I'd place between mechanical penalties and ST fiat.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)14:59 No.13543537
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    Attempting revision;
    LVL---Stat Max--- Max Mad/Per turn---Displacement
    1------- 5 ------------ 10/1 --------------------- 0
    2------- 5 ------------ 14/2 ----------------------0
    3 ------ 5 ------------ 18/3---------------------- 0
    4------- 5------------- 24/4---------------------- 0
    5------- 5------------- 30/5-------------------- +1
    6------- 6------------- 40/7-------------------- +2
    7------- 7------------- 50/9-------------------- +3
    8------- 8 ------------ 60/11------------------ +4
    9------- 9 ------------ 85/13------------------ +5
    10-----10 -----------100/15------------------ +6
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)15:03 No.13543571
    >Liability(Negative effect, gained by loss of quiescence
    Interesting. I was operating under the impression that loss of Q actually gave some advantages, thus forcing outsiders to choose between humanity and power.

    >So, does anyone think that having mutations that are actual harmful is a good idea? Or am I just bouncing ideas off of myself over here?
    I can see them having a place. If you are going to include them, I would give them a dot value. Also, social penalties of -1 per dot when they are visible.

    >[Altered Anatomy] (o-ooooo)
    Your internal organs are displaced to unnatural positions and some are missing all together. Any attempts to heal you suffer a -1 penalty per dot.

    >[Many Eyes] (o-oooo)
    You have two extra eyes hidden somewhere on your body (Palms, Chest, Shoulders, Face, etc. Unfortunately, your main eyes have poorer vision than normal, causing -2 perception pentaly Uncovering the extra eyes negates these penalties. If the extra eyes are present on the fact or other imedietly obvious location this mutation is worth -4 dots.

    [Crumbling Skin] (oo)
    Your skin begins to crumble and fall from your flesh. Your exposed musculature leaves you extra vulnerable to wounds. Whenever you take lethal damage you take one extra point.

    This reminds me. Antagonists contains some guidlines for zombies which includes various aspects. These include some which could fit as mutations.
    >> Bit really good White Wolf ST 01/16/11(Sun)15:04 No.13543581
    Didn't know all of the started at 10/1 and well, ok the displacement might be a bit low, Oh you noticed my mistake and correction, Ok, I will try it again.
    But I am not sure if I should put a big or a small "Mana" pool.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)15:04 No.13543582
    Dear Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380,

    You've been very helpful in bringing up good questions, making suggestions, and generally not being a self-important asshat.


    >> Not really good White Wolf ST 01/16/11(Sun)15:06 No.13543604
    Dammit Why I don't double check my own name =(
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)15:08 No.13543620
    Autosage time, new thread or do we leave off for a while and continue this in IRC?
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)15:08 No.13543627
    Agreed. Wonderful having someone with a great knowledge of the system helping. Thank you greatly for your time and assistance.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)15:11 No.13543654
    Might be best to give it a rest for a while. There's a lot that needs to be added to the summary document and we've had two several-day-long threads in a week so interest might start dwindling.

    Then again, /tg/ seems to be a role lately so if you want to start another thread go right ahead.

    Of course, the IRC is always open too.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)15:27 No.13543772
    >10 - Using rejections for something you could have accomplished without a rejection(5 dice)

    >9- Cause a minor derangement, Use a mid Level Rejection (level 3-4) (4 dice)
    If anything, I would not punish the use of Rejections as much as I would punish blatant reality perversion. Subtle abilities should be allowed.

    >8- Minor Changes on reality, Use a rejection on a willing mundane character (4 dice)
    Maybe a bit too fast to punish reality warping. This doesn't particularly fit the source material. There were people who abused their powers over the mind and remained entirely human. Though, as high morality is always hard, I can forgive a bit of harshness up here.

    >7-Start a Cult, Showing mortals the secret of the universe (3 dice)
    Should be 4 dice.

    >6- Cause a Major Derangement(Just causing a derangement on someone that is sane is worse than doing it on someone that is already broken) (3 dice)
    Hmm. Ok.

    >5- Minor Human sacrifice (Not murder) (2 dice)
    Alright, I suppose.

    >4 -Cause an area to loose Quiescence(2 dice)
    I don't particularly see how this ties into the Outsider's humanity.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)15:28 No.13543782
    >3- Major Changes on reality(1 die)
    Again, I'm a bit reluctant to tie a character's morality into their powers. The morality should represent something, like loss of humanity. I suppose that rejecting the normal rules of reality would help to distance the character from normal humans. Also, should probably be two dice.

    >2- Indulging the previous sins on a regular basis (1 die)
    Akin to causual crime. Ok.

    >1- Turning to you QQ form,
    This should be automatic loss. It's too powerful to be available without a substantial drawback.

    >using a Major Rejection (level 5),
    You want to prevent characters from using their most powerful abilities at all? Maybe if this was Q 3 it would be ok, but this is definately not bad enough to make a character unplayable.

    >Letting the Old ones in,

    >Major human Sacrifice (between 10 - 100)

    >(no dice automatic Failure)
    Other splats get two dice. You should always get at least 1.

    In general, I think you need to remember what Q represents. Losing Q means the character forgets a bit about what it means to be human.
    >> Self-Important Asshat !!MdLGm3ji380 01/16/11(Sun)15:30 No.13543800
    You're too kind. Too bad we ran out of posts before I could get onto the Rejections, but oh well.

    See you next time.
    >> Not really good White Wolf ST 01/16/11(Sun)15:35 No.13543857
    >1- Turning to you QQ form,
    >This should be automatic loss. It's too powerful to be available without a substantial drawback.
    This is why it is.

    >using a Major Rejection (level 5),
    >You want to prevent characters from using their most powerful abilities at all? Maybe if this was Q 3 it would be ok, but this is definately not bad enough to make a character unplayable.
    No, most people wanted to make the most powerful rejections to make you lose some Q, So I made it an automatic failure
    >Letting the Old ones in,

    >Major human Sacrifice (between 10 - 100)

    >(no dice automatic Failure)
    >Other splats get two dice. You should always get at least 1.
    The theme of the game is, With great power comes great insanity, think about it.

    >In general, I think you need to remember what Q represents. Losing Q means the character forgets a bit about what it means to be human.

    I am not sure of this.
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)16:43 No.13544445
         File1295214227.jpg-(148 KB, 1237x683, 1227511063638.jpg)
    148 KB
    Great thread guys. I'm surprised we got 300+ posts out of it.

    Archived here:
    >> Anonymous 01/16/11(Sun)20:43 No.13546557
    Bumping this shit right here.

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