/tg/, I'm interested in getting into World of Darkness, but I hear a lot about nWoD and oWoD. Is either of the versions better than the other? What's the difference in a few words?
>>9964602i fucking love this pic
>Is either of the versions better than the other? That depends on how much freedom you want, otherwise, no.>What's the difference in a few words?Old and new.
nWoD has a more refined system and has a more modular, meta-plot free approach to supplements. oWoD has more iconic NPCs.
fluff vs. crunch
the main differences is that nWOD is focus in horror and the system is more simple you don't have to roll many dices. if you wanna go with a good story of mystery and horror go with nWOD if you want twilight go with oWOD
>>9964638>nWoD has a more refined system I'm not sure that is so true. NWOD has problems with it's crunch.OP, the only real difference is that OWOD has a beginning, middle, and END, and you must work within those constraints.You do not ever need to concern yourself wth the greater metaplot, but it is there.
>>9964602Is.... is that heather?
Hm, so what I gather is that oWoD has more story to it, while nWoD is more of a guideline.Is that right?
>>9964725Could be, but I doubt it. Judging by the parodies of the posters, this would've been drawn a few years after V:tM.
>>9964725I think it's loosely based on her or damsel.
>>9964602>>9964602>>9964602Fuckin Moar of OP's image
>>9964744Heather after being let go after giving me some sweet body armour. Bitch is seducing nerds.
Neither version is better.I have my own preferences.I don't engoy New Vampire, but I like all the other new gamesAnd I like all the old ones a lot
>>9964706 NWOD has problems with it's crunch.? Got any e.g.'s?Not sayin I don't buy it, but OWOD was a total dog's breakfast and (near as I can tell) NWOD crunch is miles better. Then again I'm a narrativefag who doesn't pay attention to fiddly non-core mechanics.
>>9964737pretty much, also oWoD has a slightly more exalted feel, while nWoD has more of a gritty, horror focus IMO.
>>9964776It's far easier to break with the books. And while there are less variables at play, the same basic problems crop up that OWoD would have.Really, I never noticed problems with OWOD crunch until things started getting really powerful.
oWoD had the better perspective from a supernatural perspective, in my opinion. The games tended to have cooler plots, although I personally enjoy the nWoD Werewolf story more, but I enjoy corrupting the planet anyway. It also had a comically broken mechanical system, and (if I remember correctly) no "normal person" system.nWoD makes a much better horror-storytelling game, but I find the backstories for each supernatural species to be rather lackluster. The human aspect is amazing, though, and I find myself frequently using it to creep the everloving shit out of my gaming group. I put the slender man in one of my games this one time. :3 It ended poorly. Well, for the characters.
>>9964800Not all traps involve cawks
>>9964834Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up, I was suddenly puzzled.
If I want to find an online group that will take a complete newbie for nWoD, where would I look?
>>9964834Traps are always a dick move.
>>9964863you could try sup/tg/ or progames, but you have a chance of running across colorful folks such as edward.
>>9964834>>9964800>>9964602That is one vampire I'd gladly be trapped by.Provided there isn't actually a penis involved.But mine.
>>9964911Thats what they ALL say.
>>9964893Well meeting new people is part of the fun. Besides, no one I know near me runs it and running it over IRC or w/e is more convenient.
Old world had a better setting. New ST has slightly easier mechanics.
I like nWoD better, but only because of Prometheans. I miss the Fallen though.
>>9964893Just checked out sup/tg/ and it looks like it'll be a lot of help. Thanks!
>>9964875Why did i laugh so hard.
Personally, I'd generally suggest you decide based on which supernatural you're most interested in. Vampire is better in Old.Werewolf is better in New.Mage is better in Old.Changeling is better in New. I'm not very familiar with Old Hunter, and most of the other games don't have enough overlap to draw comparisons.
>>9964706Any system has crunch problems. NWoD has significantly fewer than oWoD however because you can't stack soak (as soak no longer exists) to godlike levels or use Celerity to attack a million times per round. Also FUCKING AGGRAVATED DAMAGE EVERYHWERE. It really loses it's specialness when Werewolf claws, Klaives, Gangrel claws, fire, chainsaws and your grandmother's cat all do it.
>>9965111Eh, damage is damage, most of the time. Chances are, if you can bring them down to zero on any track that'll put them down, you can take the spare action to coup de grace a fallen foe.Plus, I think the comparison of a gangrel's claws to a chainsaw reflects rather favorably on the gangrel, no?
>>9965091old hunter is inferior to new IMO,geist and wraith are both good but have two very different tones and themes.
>>9964602ASS AND BATTER
>>9964955My main turnoff for Old was how they presented the metaplot and NPCs. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but it felt more like someone wanted to write a novel and was told to add some RPG statblocks - the plot was so vast and complex that it seemed rather forced in how I could play my character in it, and the NPCs got all the focus.I couldn't shake the feeling that my character was more like an irrelevant background extra than someone whose words and actions had any effect on the world around them.
>>9965111Um... It's only easy in specific splats. It depends on the nature of the supernatural in question.Although giving it things' claws is pretty stupid.
>>9964686>if you wanna go with a good story of mystery and horror go with nWOD if you want twilight go with oWODThis is so wrong it's not even funny.
>>9965151I read it as "ASS BATTLE" from the thumbnail.
Plus, variable number of successes is so much better than having to deal with a rolling TN that it's not even funny.
>>9965189I would play that.
>>9964602What book is OP's pic from?
>WoD thread:D>SoS is not in it=DFuck yes.Lets talk some fucking WoD. Im in a game of it right now. Ventrue all day mother fuckers. Political spyan against chinese corporation that is run by the Kuei-jinIts been great so far
>>9965189>>9965151I'd batter her ass.
>>9965151>>9965189Assault and Battery. Get it, it's a game name after a felony that's on its fourth installment in the main sequence series? Teehee
>>9965220I have no clue, but judging by this thread, many people would like to find out.
>>9965226I laughed much more than I should have.
>>9965220I assume it's the ghoul you get in V:TM
>>9965257It is. If you made her a vampire...But you never didYOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HER
>>9964681i see what you did there
>>9965257>>9964744>Bloodlines, you dolts.Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines.VtMB, not VtM.
>>9965220>>9965257It's unrelated to Bloodlines.It's an illustration from the Daeva clanbook from Requiem. Nameless vampire holding sway over a lan-party.Artist is Efrem Palacios.http://epalaciosart.xbuild.com/
>>9965298I'm lazy, sue me.
oWoD: You can't play a human.nWoD: Humans are the most interesting characters.Basically oWoD was grimdark superheroes in a dying world. nWoD is The Shining.
>>9965309Looks a hell of a lot like Heather.>>9965277THAT'S WHAT PATCHES ARE FOR LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU HEATHER IS ALIVE LALALA
>>9965223Mekhet was here, ventrue are small-time.Recently i did something awesome that wasn't in a game of hunter for once. I foolishly tried to get the prince to up my payment and it actually worked.
>>9965323>Humans are the most interesting characters.Bitches don't know about my Changeling
>>9965326>Looks a hell of a lot like Heather.Looks a hell of a lot more like a picture from the Daeva clanbook.
it's called an an homage, i believe it's supposed to look like heather.
>>9965136Agg is an instant kill. With bashing you might be able to keep standing. With lethal your firends might be able to stabilize you. With Agg you die. That's it. Game over. Do not pass go. Not to mention that you'll spend a week to heal each point of it if you survive the encounter, leaving you potentially spending a month or more walking off an encounter's damage. But that's less of an issue than the fact that if EVERYTHING does Agg, there's no fucking reason to have anything *but* agg. >>9965323>Humans are the most interesting characters.That's like, your opinion, maaaaan....
>>9965405>>9965326It's just a Generic Redheaded Geek.Geeks love geek girls.Geeks love redheads.OH MY GOD, REDHEADED GEEK GIRL, IT MUST BE HEATHER!
I think the nWoD mechanics are better; I like and dislike things about both version's fluff. Download some of the books and see what you like.
>>9965405>it's called an an homageITT: Every redhead with glasses and jeans is an homage to Heather.
They dropped off PENTEX! motherfuckers...
>>9965470Pentex was a pretty shallow villain, although Black Dog was funny.
in oWOD, there were only five normal people not somehow tied to the great supernatural conspiracy, and three of them were Elvis.
>>9965495I loved PENTEX, and dont se them shallow at all.Mighty international corporations that slowly destroying world... Atleast ulike IRL in game it made sense because they served the Wyrm.
>>9965545 Atleast ulike IRL in game it made sense because they served the Wyrm.Allow me to explain the concept of a profit motive.
So... for my next book should i pick up Geist or Werewolf?
>>9965558Well you can still get profit withot dooming all humanity... But yep, you got me here.Still i miss PENTEX very much.
>>9965611Geist is roughly 387 times better than werewolf.
>picBad idea. Vidya nerds love stake guns.
Superior vampire bitch
>>9965747How much would it suck to have been embraced while you were on the rag? I mean, that's what she seems like.
I know I'm not wanted here, and I'll hold my tongue.If anyone wants an upload, just let me know.
>>9965747>>9965773aww, but damsel is my favorite, she's like Helga from hey-arnold.
>>9965589Listen to this anon.He speaks the truth
>>9965774welcome to hell SoS ;D
WoD Poll: Weaponry or Firearms?
>>9965794She reminded me of every neonate or fledgling Brujah I've ever run across in Vapire, ever. As the second syllable was being spit from her mouth I yawned with the boredom of seeing this character portrayed one. more. time.
>>9964706>you must work within those constraints.Nobody forces the game fluff on you. It's there, but DM and players are free to do whatever they want, from making their own end of the world to stopping it from happening.
>>9965844Brawl, or whatever the unarmed skill is called. You'll always have it on you.
>>9965858but like three-fourths of the characters in Bloodlines are incredible stereotypes, but we still love them. Also some of the ones that aren't are awful (im looking at you Beckett, you pretentious Indiana Jones ripoff)
>>9965844Poor character: BrawlRich character: FirearmsRule of cool: Weaponry
>>9964725She survived and became a vampire, probably Brujah or Gangrel.Motherfucking Yeah!
>>9965917Well it IS a videogame. It must give WoD flawour to everyone, not only to pnp WoD players who would get many in depth subtle hints.So lack of stereotypes would ruin this game...After all stereotypes represent majority.
>>9965844Firearms, and with >>9965885 idea for Brawl.Firearms to be able to manage some combat at a distance, and Brawl for it's use up close. You won't be making a Weaponry or Firearms checks to get out of a grapple the vampire has you in, preparing to chomp on your neck.
>>9965937My character is filthy rich (resources on 5) and I've got firearms as my primary combat skill.Gentlemen. Behold, Windrunner .50BMG.
Gangrel, Werewolf, or certain changeling kiths: brawl.Hunters: FirearmsEverything else: Weaponry.
OWOD you had dying world and your contribution was nil, you were just along for the ride. NWOD it's mystery horror, every thing that goes bump in the night has it's own story often clustered with myth. Nothing is ending (unless ST says so) and everything is a big mystery filled with more mysteries. So it's your job to search for the answers, while going insane and eventually breaking your psyche in total.
>>9965309Seriously, don't fuck with my happy-time now. I was devastated when she died the first time, and I'm defastated every time I bring myself to kick her out to save her aswell, so I'm simply expying Bloodlines to Requiem in my mind and bringing her back for the sake of my sanity.Hey, I'm totally running a WoD game where you meet her, fuck year.
>>9966020Here's another pic.>The Windrunner M96 is a bolt-action, magazine-fed rifle designed by American firearms designer WIlliam Ritchie and manufactured by his company, EDM Arms. It is chambered for .50 BMG, and a variant designated the M98 is chambered for .338 Lapua Magnum. It was designed to be able to be broken down in less than a minute.
>>9966080Holy shit, you can take out a tank with that gun.
>>9966080Looks like big glue gun.
>>9966080>It is chambered for .50 BMG>It was designed to be able to be broken down in less than a minute."Sorry guys but I have to fetch my suitcase. I'll be right back."
I like new in every respect, yes, even Vampire. I found old vampire to be a nonstop wank of metaplot and nonsensical clans.
If this is going to be the place where there are polls and opinions asked for WoD, I have one for nWoD Hunters.My character in a game may or may not be going on a trip to Hell. Which stats after maxing out the Resistances (Resolve, Composure, and Stamina) should I spend my time on?
>>9966118Not really. But a lightly armored stuff will go down easily.
>>9966118When you got questons about modern firearms you turn to /k/.I found this little friend by going there.
>>9966118nah, brah. this is what an anti-tank rifle looks like.and it's from the second world war, before we got all kinds of crazy layered armour and whatnot.
I'd say nWoD is better for you, you'll be more at ease.>>9964638What this guy said.
>>9966118Unlikely, but you could make some rather incredible shots with it. There are more insane calibers on the market however. The .50 fatmac on the far right is a .50 caliber bullet put into a necked down 20mm cartridge. The cartridge can produce muzzle energies just shy of 20000 foot pounds, to be compared to .50 BMG's muzzle energies of 13000-14000 foot pounds.
I hate the NWoD fucking with everything clans are few bloodlines are manyFuck all that. OWoD is superior. Its got more options and way more freedom.
>>9966216Carry that around an urban area and then post reactions.
getting hard to hold my tongue over all these city-boy rifleswould I feel anything if you shot me with .50?
>>9966342It can put a round through a large truck's engine block pretty easily; yes you would.
>>9966314reactions would depend entirely on which particular urban area you choose.the good ones would mostly be high-fives.
>>9966342It depends where I shot you...
>>9966369I think he's point was that would he survive long enough to feel anything.
>>9966342Holy shit. Get the fuck out and stop it. Seriously how many fucking times must you be banned before you get the fucking messageSTOP ACTING LIKE A FUCKING WEREWOLF
>>9966372>LOOK AT ME, EVERYBODY! ATTENTION WHORE HERE!I love how gunbunnies never pull this shit in the ghetto.
>>9966412>>9966412You have no idea whats happening in this picture yet you believe he is doing it to fuck with people.Why not ask for an explanation and not just jump to /k/ levels of retardation
>>9966412actually, that's a militiaman doing a bit of shopping on his way home from work.but, hey. whatever helps you feel good about yourself.
>>9966298Your English is horrible.NWOD has all the clans of OWOD, just most of them are now bloodlines seeing how most of the clans in OWOD overlapped to various degrees. Instead they opted to change it, to where each clan is unique in it's own way. Then you have bloodlines, which are basically sub-clans, these allow more freedom in the sense that each of the 5 clans has a butt load of bloodlines. Many of the old clans are now represented as bloodlines. Honestly did you need 13+ clans? When you could have 5 clans, and 25 bloodlines.
>>9966412He's a Swiss militia soldier, dude, not a "gunbunny".In a lot of countries with conscription programs like theirs, it's pretty common to see guys walking around in plain clothes with their duty weapons. Israel is the same way.
>>9966342Nah, you can't feel instant death.
>>9966478>Your English is horrible.My apologies English is not my home langaugeAnd yes I do. I hate how Malkavians are now a bloodline of Ventrue. I hate NWoD because it changed so much shit. It could be universaly declared best rpg ever and I would still hate it.
>>9966516Switzerland is a pretty cool guy.Eh mines all bridges and doesn't afraid of anything.
>>9966516My bad, I assumed it was the U.S.
>>9966412'The fuck is a "gunbunny"? Is that a playboy girl with a rifle?
>>9966518you think there'd be enough left of me fill a box to give back to my 'friends'?
>>9966579Originally a military term for personnel who worked with mortars. Eventually extended to artillerymen, then to armorers, and then eventually to just anyone who really liked lots of guns.
>>9966600Yes.It would take a little bit of time to collect though.
oWoD is a 90s horror themed comic book worldnWoD is a 00's horror themed comic book world.Once you realize this, everything falls into place.As for me, Mage and Wraith were the best of oWoD, with Changeling and Geist for nWoD.It's all good though.
>>9966528by any chance are you the fellow who has arguing about the lion and crab clans in a L5R thread a couple of days ago?>Malkavians are now a bloodline of Ventruewell there's technically two Malkavians in nWoD the bloodline, widely ignored, and the Disease that grants you dementia that anyone can get. Personally i'm kinda glad they did away with Malks, their players were all either lolrandom or deeply disturbed.
>>9966654Nope wasnt me.>their players were all either lolrandom or deeply disturbed>deeply disturbedWell they are playing Malkavians......
>>9966528I think it makes sense, Venture are the "lords" and like all people in power (dictatorial) they tend to go paranoid. Seeing how this is reflected by their decreased effort to stain off mental conditions, they're just like the Malks of OWOD.
>>9966750It distracts from the game if you're going off on your randomness, then blaming it on your clan.
Anyone want to upload the Geist book?
>>9966750I mean like, "I wear a traffic cone on my head and say things that make no sense" or "I attack and attempt to rape the first NPC i come across" That's not fun for the ST or the other players and makes it look like you and not your character is the one who has aspergers. Plenty of malks could be well done, however i rarely saw a good one and out of the clans to keep Malks wouldn't be one.
>>9966906nwod geist - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B6FGSA5D
>>9966974Your problem is with the players not the Malkavians themselves. There are plenty of good Malk players but its the World of Darkness faggots who are attracted to it because LOLVAMPIRES and WEREWULFS abound
>>9966906Did you check /rs/? Because it should be there.
Not OPFWIW, I decided to go with OWoD because I liked the fluff a little bit better from playing Bloodlines over the years.I know I could easily change the Clans around, but meh.
>>9964602LOOK AT THE GUY ON THE LEFT LOOK AT HIM!THATS YOU /tg/!
>>9967097But that's the majority of the Malk players, besides it wasn't a strong enough concept to keep it through transition. I would have rather seen Tremere clan in nWoD, and with cruac i can make it from whatever clan i like.
>>9967394Tremer work better as a covenant than as a clan.
>>9967394Well thats coming from your experence just like mine. The majority of malk players iv played with are good people who tried to play malks seriously
>>9967279It's true! Oh god it's true!
>>9967458The thing I find funny is. Its like he knows. He knows exactly what she is.His neckbear will protect him
>>9967221OWOD fluff is stupid metaplot about the end of days, something that has been done countless times. Where NWOD you have mystery, and with mystery comes the unknown. Even if you decided with the VTMB the clans are easily and I mean easily translated. Brujah -> GangrelMalk-> VentureToreador -> DaevaTremere -> VentureLasombra -> MekhetTzimisce -> MekhetAssamite -> MekhetFollowers of Set -> MekhetGiovanni -> MekhetRavnos -> Gangrel Mekhet has so many, because it's one the oldest clans. Also, the fact it focuses on stealthy, intelligent, and investigative types. They also have the San Giovanni bloodline, which is Giovanni clan in OWOD. Also many the clans powers are now Covent powers.
>>9967704i wouldn't consider that to be the best transfer of the clans. Most of the clans have pieces incorporated into one or two of the archetypes.Deava is a mix of Mainly Toreador and Brujah, but brujah's freedom loving, rebellious aspect can also now be seen in Gangrel.
>>9967704>Where NWOD you have mysteryIn nWoD, you have vagueness and no compelling reason for any vampire to do anything other than keep his head down, feed, and enjoy being immortal.
>>9967704MehStill doesn't jive that well to me trying to match up clans.Plus the meta-plot isn't too much of a concern because its up to the GM to take care of the story.
>>9967799Ya, ya. The clans are more defined and well rounded. Each with their own sin.Daeva -> LustGangrel -> WrathMehket -> SlothNosferatu -> EnvyVenture -> Pride(Julii) -> Greed*Julii are an extinct clan, that was only prominent with the raise and fall of Roman civilization. So I figure that with the riches of Rome, and Julii being the figure heads of Rome, they're obviously greedy.
It is now time for an archive.Good evening.
>>9967851THUS ALLOWING YOU TO ACTUALLY ROLEPLAY A CHARACTER!
>>9967704thats your opinion i disagree a lot
>>9967975I never had a problem role-playing characters in oWoD. I don't know what your problem was. You do understand that PCs in oWoD were supposed to be unusual in the degree to which they got involved in and affected things, right?
Was Hitler a Ventrue?
>>9968030No, he was a Seer of the Throne.
>>9968030only mortals are capable of that sort of evil, anon
>>9968089For once, he said something we could agree with.
>>9967851Same could be said in OWOD. However there was no mystery, everything was handed on silver platter and said this is the way it is, piss off. NWOD is having it told to you through a riddle, and entices you to find the answer. >>9967869Most the clans were so vague in their details you could've been talking about another clan, which had the same details. They often interloped, and were the same deal. The Brujah and Gangrel are both similar with little differences. Set, Assamites, and Giovanni were closely related they were diced and pasted on several clans yes. However they made the 5 clans in NWOD more well rounded, Venture (NWOD) are combo of Venture, Malk, Tremere. They're crazy, rich & powerful, and while they are close to another clans mate advancement amongst them is slow and tedious. With advancement slower than deadvancement.
>>9968151>Same could be said in OWOD. However there was no mystery, everything was handed on silver platter and said this is the way it is, piss off.>NWOD is having it told to you through a riddle, and entices you to find the answer.
>>9968030Hitler wasn't a vamp in NWOD, and many vampires covenants tried & failed to keep up with the Nazis and their ideals. Only the Carthians had any true success, which bred a skin-head Ventrue bloodline that believe they're perfect and then comment on other's flaws and try to fix them.
not sure if anyone's said it but part of it is the whole theme of myth too. oWoD is more about reinventing or taking some very very small part of the myth and running with it (see vamps as descendants of Cain, weres as gaia's children, changelings as exiled fae, mages as essentially Chaos Magickans) while nWoD seems to be more about going towards the older myths (various vampire legends, a sort of unified werewolf legend that makes most of th non-PC ones be your old style werewolf, changelings are those captured by the fae, mage is the fucking Golden Dawn with working magic.)I think nowhere is the change more exemplified than in Mage... I've said it many times.oWoD Mage- Nothing is True, everything is permittied -Hassan ibn SabahnWoD Mage- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Aliester Crowley.
>>9968218>which bred a skin-head Ventrue bloodline that believe they're perfect and then comment on other's flaws and try to fix them.this sounds like an amazing dick character, which book is that from?
>>9968198Everyone knew about their origins, there was no mystery there. Only "mystery" was when Gehenna was coming, even then it was already mapped out for everyone. NWOD all vampires sooner or later need to go into torpor, which clouds their memories. So even if they did write something down, most likely when they go into torpor, they'll see what they wrote down and dismiss it as a hoax. Or information lost, because they can no longer read the code they wrote it in. Perhaps it was burnt alongside the master in the Inquisition.
The main problem with oWoD Clans... is they were actually organizations. If you were Giovanni, you were expected to be a fucking Mafioso. If you were Tremere, yeah, you had to find a Chantry, and follow with all the other Tremere. If you were Lasombra, sabbat aristocracy!There was no room for variation, everyone was ONE WAY ONLY. Sure, you could deviate a little, but that inevitably leads to faggots jumping down your throat saying YOU'RE PLAYING YOUR CLAN WRONG.BADWRONGFUNBADWRONGFUNFuck you.I'll play nWoD, where I can be a social, intelligent, cultured Gangrel, groomed to be the new Prince.Or an attractive Nosferatu, creeping people out with how good I look.Or a brutal, grungy, primeval Ventrue harking back to the days of the Norse pillagers.
>>9968327hell Vampire is about the only thing I will play in oWoDHate the we're environmentalist werewolvesCan't stand happy hippy peter pan ChangelingsCan't shut up the part of my brain going Chaos Magick was fun when you were 14, but you grew up and read real Occultists to play mageNobody plays Wraith that I know ofand Hunter is just another supers game.
>>9968327Too bad everyone else will STILL say you are having BADWRONGFUN.The problem isn't in the game. It's always in the players.There was absolutley nothing wrong with oWoD. Absolutely EVERYTHING was wrong with its fans.Same for nWoD, actually.WoD just sucks in general. I'll just go back to Delta Green.
"The Cainite Heresy - To Serve and Protect."
Here's an interesting concept: how do i make a Nagaraja in nWoD?make a bloodline? make new but very small clan? thoughts?
>>9968480You mean the bloodline that lost out in the oWoD purge of anything not major that was a combo group (like the Kiyasid and Abominations, but unlike the fucking Tremere) dunno really, they were kinda cool.
>>9968480There's two bloodlines that deal with eating flesh.One is a venture bloodline, which basically they don't need to eat flesh, just they want too. However they gain 100pounds after they're embraced, which is uneven fat. They also grow larger as they grow older. The second one is a Nosferatu bloodline, which they crave flesh however they can't digest it. They spit it out, just the sensation of chewing it is enough. Those are the only two so far, I know of that allows you to create the Nagaraja.
I rember the Nagaraja were Euthanatos who happened upon the secret of vampirism, what were the Tremeres supposed to have been, I want to say Hermetics.
>>9968391I like NWOD changelings, really nice. Kidnapped by the Gentry, subjected to horrors beyond your imagination. Then escape through the hedge which could leave you in worst shape. Finally when you reach home, you find out that any number of months to years you were gone in the real world when it seemed like just days in Arcadia. Not only is a shock of the time, but you go home only to find that there's this thing made out of sticks, & leaves living your life. It's all too much of a strain when you look in a mirror and find your travels through Arcadia has left you entirely non-human, and the constant fear of The Gentry coming back and recapturing you. That's what I like about the new Changeling.
>>9968642they were a hermetic house that managed to embrace themselves.
>>9965037Was Fallen playable? A friend of mine loves the setting but has never tried to run it just because it seemed to much of a storytelling strain I think. (Between avoiding the broken loopholes and keeping things engaging, I believe were his primary complaints.)
>>9968418Fuck yeah Delta Green. You are the best anti-Supernatural conspiracy ever.Well, aside from PISCES obviously.
>>9968642they're very similar to the Tremere, hermetic mages who tried to become vampires, but unlike the Tremere something went horribly wrong and they must eat flesh to prevent from wasting away.
Has anyone ever played a game as a Promethean Brotherhood hunter? How did it go?
>>9968660Yeah, as stated in the previous post to that (the quotes at the end one) I like how the new is focused more on the old myths rather than lets cram every new age piece of shit philosophy in here and add in a little bit of the myth,
>>9968673yes. like most games there will either need fixes to mechanics to stop people abusing the system or you need players that won't try to rape the system.
>>9968702I don't have promethean, could you explain more?
>>9968458Don't get the lines....
>>9968259>>9968292Best part was that their discipline is based off inducing clan weaknesses in vampires. Combined with the fact they're sure that Ventrue are perfect. The 5 dot power mimics the Ventrue Clan Weakness and is purported to be the reason that the Bloodline founder disappeared/torpored himself.yea.
>>9968674Would you say Delta Green is the predecessor of C-Tech?
>>9968699Huh I thought it was Euthanatos, my mistake.
>>9968758this sounds great, Pridegoes before a fall, huh?>>9968786you're likely to be right, it's been years since i looked the masquerade books. I should reacquire them.
>>9968740Think of Frankenstein's creation, and Golems from Judaism. They're creatures that are build from human cadavers, or mud..etc. Then infused with a semi-soul, and each are on their own ladder to getting a soul. That's Promethan.
>>9968740The Promethean Brotherhood is actually from Hunter, not Promethean. They hunt mages and eat their brains, and in doing so temporarily gain magical power.
>>9968743>>9968771Cainites are fucking insane vampire hunters. They use blood magic and blow themselves up.>>9968740The Promethean Brotherhood is a Hunter compact that sacrifices mages and steals their Gnosis. Most are bitter apprentices that can't achieve Awakening. They are close to becoming a Conspiracy.
>>9968786tremere were hermetics, nags were euthanatos.
>>9968327>Or an attractive Nosferatu, creeping people out with how good I look.> attractive Nosferatu
>>9968869so a hunter that hunts Prometheans? he's likely to be nomadic like his prey. Fire as always is useful. Since some prometheans explode upon death rifless would likely be his choice of weapon. Also do animals dislike prommies? I'm now imagining a southern sheriff type guy who hunts prommies with bloodhounds and his posse.
>>9968778I don't know enough about C-tech to properly comment.
>>9968972A hunter that goes after Prometheans would likely be the most depressed man alive. When your prey (who may have just been living in a tent in the woods) begs for you to just leave them alone and they'll go away, you can't leave without intense mental scarring. After all, Disquiet wears off after a while.
>>9968951Nosferatu don't always have to look twisted and deformed like (pic related).Sometimes it's more of a creepy psychological feeling - sure, they look normal, but simply being around them send wormy chills down your spine...
>>9969110And sometimes they seem perfectly normal from a distance, but once you get close, OH GOD THE SMELL.
>>9969153so many fa/tg/uys are really Nossies?
>>9968660Don't forget, sometimes it's been years for you in Arcadia, but only days in reality!Because it's all about OPTIONS in how badly your character gets screwed in CtL.
>>9969207Yep. And aspies are prometheans, who exhibit a similar effect.
That artist knows our kind far too well. A woman like that has hypnotic power over me.
>>9969110>>9969153That is another reason I don't care for NWoD.That kind of defeats the point of playing a Nosferatu in my opinion.
Personally, I like oWoD for it's really goofy metaplot. (In before Killer Commie Werewolves in Spaaace...)
>>9969351nothing is stopping you from playing an ugly nos.
>>9969390i too thought oWoD was best when played at maximum camp. especially oWolf, it went from straight stupid to HELLSYEAH MUTHAFUKA, ALWAYS BET ON WEREWOLF DOUK.
New vampire is kind of shitty, the rest is good
>>9969390Personally I had more of a soft spot for magic-hobo and Cú Chulainn werewolves in SPAAACE.
Promethean is easily the best.
>>9969508This too. I mean, let's look at the Fianna. "Celtic Pride" werewolves, with weak willpower. At first, unfortunate implications.Then their splatbook comes, and mentions a Fianna custom is for them to go forth in werewolf form on Saint Patrick's day, dying their fur green, and randomly going about in direct violation of the veil, smashing up taverns and bars for booze.Yup. Drunken Irish Werewolf Rampage, plus it gives your party an excuse to use "you meet in a tavern..."
>>9969549it also is the hardest to play, find a good group and have i good ST. It suffers from the same problem as wraith did, conditions need to be perfect for the game to get off the ground.
>>9969549Promethean is unplayable.Like Wraith was.The fourth WoD book will always suck balls.
>>9969563Red talons: only enjoyable to have in the party when played for jokes, can't do simply things like work a phone or read. Alternatively, glasswalkers for SCIENCE!
>>9969670The fourth WoD book will be unplayable. It will also, paradoxically, have all the best ideas for you to rip off for other, better games.Which is all I read WoD for anyway.
>>9969351Nosferatu aren't always physically ugly, they can be ugly in spiritual presence, or smell. The point of being a Nosferatu isn't that everyone looks deformed monster, is that you put mortals and kindred off. You can look perfectly normal, but plants wilt and die around you, cats screech as you pass by, and dogs growl and bark at you. It's that un-natural aura that can push people away. Or it could be you smell like dog shit 24/7, who wants to be near a dude that smells like fresh dog shit? If you want to play an deformed Nosferatu, go ahead, no one's stopping you. Just that, some Nosferatu's corruption is more subtle. Sure he can go to a party, however people will stay away from him. Even kindred have tough times dealing with Nosferatu, if it was a physical thing you tend to get over that over time or plastic surgery (for the damned!) can fix it. That's the point of NWOD you're not forced into a role that's a one way road.
>>9969672Fuck yeah, Glasswalkers.
>>9969708Wraith and Promethean were terrible ideas.When do you get to battle? What kind of awesome superpowers do I get? Nothing.Bullshit.
>>9969825Wow. Way to make the argument for me, and better than I ever could.A GAME THAT'S NOT ABOUT POWERS AND COMBAT? FUCK THAT!
>>9969825In Prommy you have powers coming out of your ass.
>>9969863A game that has no combat is not a game.It is masturbation.
>>9969825sup dawg. I herd u liek dungeon crawls so I put a labyrinth in your underworld so you can delve while you try to turn back Oblivion before you succumb to your Shadow.hurm, something went awry there.
>>9969907You are surrounded by a society that wants you dead. That is COMPELLED to want you dead. How did you play Promethean without any combat or tension?
>>9969907You. Are. A. Mong.
>Really, I never noticed problems with OWOD crunch until things started getting really powerful.You don't see a problem with each individual attack roll requiring up to four different roles to resolve?
>>9969953>You don't notice anything wrong with the damage and accuracy of a weapon being the same stat?
I'm gonna put a stake in the bitchpire in OP's pic.
New Changeling is better, but I prefer the metaplot, Technocracy and paradigm magic of Old Mage.
>>9970064technocracy was amazing, they managed to dick over every faction in the game.also how does nChangeling compare to oMage?
>>9970064That's not saying much about Changeling. Pic related.
>>9970059A hard, woody stake of justice?
>>9970064Eh as I've said before, actually having an occult background before even delving into WoD I just couldn't like Old Mage, as I personally thought on it and it's just fucking Chaos Magick the game.
>>9970050That's a problem that can be resolved by increasing it to TWO rolls - Attack and Damage. OWoD had *four rolls* Attack opposed by Dodge and Damage opposed by Soak. Which is stupidly complex.
>>9970170You talking smack about Chaos Magic?
>also how does nChangeling compare to oMage?They're different games with the same rules...what would you want to compare? nChangeling is more focused on themes of abuse, loss, sanity and recovering a damaged life. It's much darker than oChangeling. nMage decided to go with a retarded Atlantis-hermetic storyline that explains _everything_ in the line, and that's just not on.
>>9970210Yes I am, as a traditionalist it's my duty to shit all over it.
>>9966654Which one is the second "Malkie" line besides Malkovian?
>>9970248>nMage decided to go with a retarded Atlantis-hermetic storylineWhich can be ignored if it's not to your taste. One of the five main factions is even explicitly based on the premise of "You Orders are smoking some serious weed. Get out of here with this Atlantis bullshit." Pic related.
>>9970248or you could put it this way new changeling focuses on stories like a grim rip van winkle or Tam lin, while new mage takes all those old Magical lodges of the lat 19th and early 20th centuries and makes the magic real.
This seems like as good a thread as any to ask - I've been contemplating making a nasty Nosferatu Lancea Sanctum member. Should I put dots in weaponry, brawl or guns? One of the early Lancea Sanctum powers allows him to make blood whips that use Weaponry, but I don't know how good they are. Any advice?
>>9969953Hey, detailed combat like that is awesome, fuck you.
>>9970248i was asking because it seemed like you compared the two, which didn't make sense to me.
>>9970432not really, it does have the problem of being sorta... bleh when you get down to it.
>>9970455Oh, sure, haven't played oWoD, so I couldn't tell, but I lurve them "hit-damage-location-result" - systems.
I've finaly realized.The oMage/nMage debate is actually Chaos Mages and Hermetic Mages having a battle using Nerds as a proxy.I'm on to you, you goddamn wizards!
In line with discussion of more detailed hit systems: the One Roll Engine (the one Greg Stolze's Reign runs on) has a pretty boss combat system, but I haven't seen any serious attempt to adapt WOD material to it.
>>9970440No, I meant:Nchangeling > oChangelingoMage > nMageThat is all. The two lines don't cross much, though some people have expressed a lot of interest in playing mages looking for Arcadia.
>>9970500O shit guys he's on to us.
>>9970359>Which can be ignored if it's not to your taste.Which would be great if Atlantis wasn't as integrated into the setting as it is. High Speech, runes for spells, ruins everywhere, 4 orders directly claiming lineage... Even if they claim it didn't exist, the Free Council is hard pressed to explain the ruins people find or the artifacts they dig up or the spirits still bound.It's safer to say that Atlantis (or the Awakened City, which is the name I substitute) doesn't matter any more. Look to the present and the future for inspiration, instead of being rooted entirely in the past. That's what it means to be Free Council.
>>9970475It's not one of those. Even a 'detailed' one can be fairly slick. DH/RT uses a roll to hit - invert for location - roll if there's a possible defense - roll for damage system, which is four dice put to better use.
>>9970527Well, we can blame bad system designers.
>>9970508Hey! Hey! Go fuck yourself!
>>9970547It didn't blow the legs off the game, it just doesn't contribute anything more than the nWod resolution unless you really like to roll for things.Which i'm totally cool with.
>>9970510YOU FUCKING WIZARDS!I'LL TEACH YOU TO PLAY WITH MY EMOTIONNNNNNNNNNS!
>>9970500you are now aware that Crowley and Carroll have been battling since nMage came out.fuck the only reason people even like oMage is the fucking villain faction.
>>9970683And the Sons of Ether.
>fuck the only reason people even like oMage is the fucking villain faction.Nah, we also loved the Virtual Adepts (hey, this was the 90s, man! The internet would change the world, right?), the Verbena, the cool chantries, the messed-up Euthanatoi, Autocthonia, the Ahl-i-Batin, and, most especially, the Sons of Ether.
>>9970866I know it was put in Exalted as a shout-out to mage, but I can't disassociate Autochthonia from robot communist land. And Lissome Avid Engineer...mmmm
Sons of Ether = Steampunkand therefore shitty.
Incredibly disappointing amount of vitriol in this thread, I must say. Where's the fire in your belly, /tg/? Are there so few of us tabletop gamers left now that we can't even have a decent oWod/nWod flame war? :sniff:
>>9971245No, flamewars are just uninteresting.
>>9970513>Which would be great if Atlantis wasn't as integrated into the setting as it is. Father Wolf is highly integrated into Werewolf's setting. In spite of this they have an entire book (Blasphemies) dedicated to going "Fuck your luna and Urfarah bullshit, you furfaggots.">>High Speech, runes for spells, Could simply be the underlying nature of utilizing Supernal magic. The Free Council is an exceptional example here - they didn't buy into the Atlantis story and they still use the same magic. >>ruins everywhere, Could simply be ancient utilization of said magic, likely by the Order's forerunners. >4 orders directly claiming lineage.>implying that the Orders couldn't possibly be wrong>implying that the Orders couldn't possibly be simply LYING, either>Even if they claim it didn't exist, the Free Council is hard pressed to explain the ruinsJust did.>or the artifacts You don't need Atlantis to have exceptionally skilled or organized ancient willworkers. >or the spirits still bound.>Spirits>tell the truthThat's so very, very funny.
>>9971245It's been 6 years now since nWoD got released. If you play oWoD, that's ok. If you play nWoD, that's ok too. We're all one happy family.And half of it SUCKS.
>>9971245The initial transfer is over.Everyone has realized the pros and cons of each system, and decided what they want to like.They proceed to play those things.We won't get another war until the Third World of Darkness comes forth.
>>9970683>fuck the only reason people even like oMage is the fucking villain faction.The entire setting was superior in oMage. The Technocracy was part of that, but even the 9 Traditions are a lot more interesting than the 5 Orders. Steampunk genius SCIENCE rubs elbows with Greek / Indian reincarnationist assassins and pagan blood rituals.In nMage, everyone's just a Hermetic and maybe, if you're Free Council, you'll be okay with a cell phone as your magical instrument.
>>9971442Man, did you even read the core book?They have a doaist alchemist right there.
>>9971468Not to mention the splat books. "if you're Free Council, you'll be okay with a cell phone as your magical instrument."More like if you're Free Council, you'll be okay with putting together a magically encrypted mage version of facebook and Open Sourcing the shit out of magic.
>>9971426...and this is why you can't "just remove" Atlantis from the setting. It's all so structured around it that you may as well make your own game and not buy the books. And why should I have to choose only the Free Council if I want to play a non-hermetic mage? I can just go to oMage and play 9+ non-hermetic traditions straight out of the box.
>>9971468>They have a doaist alchemist right there.I'm guessing that's one of the Legacies? Those always struck me more as a Watchtower / Path spinoff, which is fine. I like the Watchtowers and Paths. It's the Orders I find boring as fuck. Except the Free Council, and maybe the Arrows.>Not to mention the splat books. I've had this argument on /tg/ before. I have to find the base groups as present in the corebook interesting enough to bother reading the splats in the first place. I found the core Orders boring, so haven't read the splats, focusing my time on more interesting things instead.
>>9971583eh that's great for you, I want magic to be coherent and not just clap your hands if you believe bullshit.
>>9971644same here. the core book is dry as dust and hardly inspiring. The core book for oMage blew my tiny mind; the core book for nMage made me want to play Changeling.
While i generally like and prefer the crazy conspiracies and metaplot of oWoD, the only glaring issue I have with nWoD is what they did with mages. I fucking hate the new mage fluff with a passion, I much prefer my subjective reality.
>>9971644>I've had this argument on /tg/ before.So have I. Potentially with you. It was a question of broad expandable categories (the Orders) vs. more focused and heavily themed ones (the Traditions), if I recall correctly.
>>9971708eh as said earlier in jest, but I'll say it with more seriousness, if you have no experience with actual occultism oMage is fo you, if you actually have experience, or don't want the whole stupidity of subjective reality invading your game nMage is for you,
>>9971745Uh oh, folks, we're dealing with a Professional PhD. in Occultism here, watch what you say.
>>9971724>It was a question of broad expandable categories (the Orders) vs. more focused and heavily themed ones (the Traditions), if I recall correctly.Indeed, that was it. Hello again, anon!
>>9971745That 'subjectivity of reality' is what attracted Mage's fanbase in the first place. That's what the game revolved around. It's what made it tick, and what made it popular. NMage isn't popular because it moved completely away from that. It wanted to be Unknown Armies but failed.
>>9971801>NMage isn't popularShow me the sales data for nMage, and then show me the sales data for the alternate universe where White Wolf just kept on pumping out oMage.Go on, I'll wait.
>>9971583>...and this is why you can't "just remove" Atlantis from the setting. It's all so structured around it that you may as well make your own game and not buy the books. I just proved how easily one can disprove all the evidence given for Atlantis. There's no element of 'removing' Atlantis (or needing to do so). In fact it'd make a very good game to pull back the Atlantean myth and figure out what really happened. >And why should I have to choose only the Free Council if I want to play a non-hermetic mage?You can do that without being Free Council, you just won't have an entire order dedicated to it. Perhaps in time you could found your own Legacy around denying it as the Council does which I'd say would make for a great goal in a chronicle. >I can just go to oMage and play 9+ non-hermetic traditions straight out of the box.You could. That's what freedom to do as you wish is for. >>9971767Nothing says magic can't be coherent. Indeed, if things like magic artifacts and rotes can exist, it would speak favorably towards it being coherent (elsewise they'd fail regularly because magic felt like changing the rules today)>>9971772I thought so! Hello again, then.
>>9971853>then show me the sales data for the alternate universe where White Wolf just kept on pumping out oMage.Ugh. Time for an extended crafts roll then. I wonder what I need to roll for building a dimension-hopper.
>>9970502http://www.tricktonic.com/ORExalted/There's still that though ? :/
>>9971853Game lines should be compared cycle-to-cycle, not head to tail (eg: first 2 years of oMage vs first 2 of nMage). Unfortunately nobody has the official numbers so your question is trite, but scuttlebut (developer comments, forum postings, anecdotal evidence in # of books in retailers and # of players online) points to a much smaller fanbase for nMage.
Why does no one like me?What have I done to any of you?I JUST WANTED TO BUY A BAGEL!
>>9971745You seem to have that weird assumption that one would rather play in Mage (either oWoD or nWod) a game emulating real magic as perceived by its real life practitioners instead of a game being a metaphor of what magic could/should be (which in itself *is* an act of magic though maybe tangentially too meta to be fully appreciated I guess).I never get the "fluff too closed in oWoD" comments.If it's about content, you can take and make the fluff as you like (for example Kueijin don't exist in my campaign, period). If it's about structure, that's generally one of the things I *liked* in games in which the criticism is valid. One of the basic premises of Vampire is that there'll always be someone meaner, older, badder and more powerful that can, and will, fuck you. That's the whole point. Bitching about that is like complaining that you'll end up dead or mad in a Cthulhu game.
Mummy is the best wod game. Fuck yes biblical magical powers available off the bat.
>>9972215>Fuck yes biblical magical powers available off the bat.Demon: the Fallen waves and says hello.
>>9969822That pic is from Shadowrun though.
>>9971442In oMage, the Orders were all about HOW you did your magic. In nMage, they're about WHAT YOU DO WITH IT. How you practice your magic is window-dressing. Indian reincarnationist assassin? Perfectly possible. Why does he kill people? Warrior code and a duty of honor? Adamantine Arrow. To protect magic? Guardian of the Veil. To protect freedom? Free Council. To show humanity the path to enlightenment? Silver Ladder. To recover and protect arcane secrets? Mysterium. Personal power and gain? Seers of the Throne.Personally, I think the nMage Order model is much more complex and allows a much better design-space for character concepts and character development.
>>9972283Not unless Steve Prescott (IIRC that was the artist's name) mismanaged his galleries, it isn't. That was under the Glasswalkers part of his website (Rottenface or something)
>>9972460Essentially, the role of Tradition in oMage got split in half between Path and Order. Paths now give your magic flavor and define what types of magic your character would naturally excel at, while Orders are the social groups the character joins. Traditions used to be both, as they gave a character both a favored Sphere and a social group. It's why my mashup of the two games (nMage rules and oMage setting) has two versions: one with Watchtowers and Paths and one without.>I think the nMage Order model is much more complex I found the base Orders to be bland and completely uninteresting because they're so broad. After reading the section, I felt like they were a typical D&D party: warrior (Arrows), rogue (Guardians), priest (Ladder) and wizard (Mysterium), with the Free Council as the outlier. But that gets back to the whole "broad versus tight" group design argument.
>>9964623Yeah. It's really quite good, especially with the passage included.Also: CHAFING.Also: SUBTLE TROLL IS LESS THAN SUBTLE.
>>9970424I say guns and melee. If I remember correctly, blades can do aggravated damage to certain creatures. It also is useful to cut off opponents heads.
New World of Darkness has a more comprehensive ruleset for more modern necessities. Think 3.5Old World of Darkness has a tremendous metaplot and is very intricately woven, but focuses primarily on rp over rules. Think AD&D.
>>9972751Read the Order books. They're much more than that.Pic related; it's the sort of thing the Silver Ladder creates as a part of their plan to make people Awaken.
Once upon a time I read through the nMage core book, and tossed the game into my metal not-worth-it pile. Then I read DaveB's Actual Play thread for his Broken Diamond game on rpg.net, and it completely changed my mind.
>>9973238See my post >>9971644; haven't bothered to read the splats because the base groups came off as so dull. And I had an urge to kick every stuck-up Silver Ladder prick square in the nads. Must be my Free Council sympathies.
nmage: a game that can't grab you in the first 300 pages of the core book doesn't deserve to have its splatbooks read.
>>9971563myspace for mages. powered by lovelace. Wow. My faith in humanity is restored.>>9968256>Hassan ibn Sabbah and Crowley quotes in edition warsbrofist.jpg