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  • File : 1269217464.jpg-(201 KB, 1600x1064, saab_viggen_1.jpg)
    201 KB Mercenaries and Planes XIII OP again 03/21/10(Sun)20:24 No.8711026  
    Scotch sent an email out this morning. He's using his money from the past missions to buy another plane, but he's done with the Mirage.

    Instead he's upgrading slightly, and getting a Viggen. Myself, I think I'm going to stick to my plan of continuing to use the Phantom. What we are all talking about is upgrading our software, so that we can communicate targets to each other without using radios, so my radar will be fed information from Hugs radar, and stuff like that. The upgrade is pricey though, and I know I'm going to dump th phantom eventually, and the upgrade doesn't carry forward onto my next plane (but it does give some value added to the F4 sale price) I'm just kind of stuck on the issue. Any thoughts? I'm also looking at getting a pilot skill that improves my dogfighting, since my current plane isn't very nimble, although stall ace sounds cool too, since I can avoid stalls easier.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)20:30 No.8711152
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    For those confused:


    TL:DR: Mercenary Air RPG (Area 88) in Africa, GM is a God, Missions are Fuck Brilliant, Execution of Missions is Barrel of Monkeys Fun. Planefaggotry is everywhere.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)20:32 No.8711185
    It seems that you've been having problems with ordinance reliability recently.

    Can your F4 carry AMRAAMs?
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)20:33 No.8711209
         File1269218026.jpg-(49 KB, 453x604, sexy-military-fancy-dress1.jpg)
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    Lt Military Hardon and Escort reporting for duty.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)20:36 No.8711270
    OP again

    Yeah, it can, I haven't used them because of their extra price, but I could buy more expensive Sparrows, or even AMRAAMs.
    >> HMS !nt3ITrosSo 03/21/10(Sun)20:39 No.8711327
    One of the guys who dumped plane porn in earlier threads reporting. I have some good new stuff if anyone wants me to start dumping.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)20:40 No.8711352
    No image dumps yet, but feel free to attach awesome pics to your relevant posts.

    OP, did you get a new mission yet?
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)20:46 No.8711459
    >and getting a Viggen
    >> HMS !nt3ITrosSo 03/21/10(Sun)20:52 No.8711591
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    I hate to be a bother, but has steve typed up any of the rules yet? Also this ones for the Aardvark pilot (sandman I think)
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)20:53 No.8711612
    We got a copy of the rules in thread ten, or around there.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)20:57 No.8711715
    OP again

    No, nothing new yet, but we're hoping we get to go to Liberia.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)21:07 No.8711936
         File1269220059.jpg-(114 KB, 1162x872, KazakhstanMi-8MT2000(DF-SD-01-(...).jpg)
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    can they recover the downed mirage?
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)21:16 No.8712071
    I doubt it, it took missile hits.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)21:19 No.8712129
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    Ya know, this seems like the perfect place to ask this, what is this?
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)21:24 No.8712202

    One question in the last thread was, can the wreck be dredged up, identified and traced back to the OP's team?
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)21:31 No.8712332
    >> HMS !nt3ITrosSo 03/21/10(Sun)21:40 No.8712476

    Im usually pretty good with about recognizing aircraft, but this one totally escapes me. I have no idea what it is.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)21:49 No.8712603
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    What mirage version was Scotch flying anyway?

    Picture kind of related
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:09 No.8712920
    It's a jet-powered IL-2.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:13 No.8713004
    I thought it crashed into the city?
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:14 No.8713018
    That is insanely cool then
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:14 No.8713021

    Looks a little like an SU-25 Frogfoot, except for that weird double canopy.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/21/10(Sun)22:16 No.8713067
    Wrong. It's an Ilyushin prototype.

    Sukhoi built a better aircraft.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:17 No.8713093
         File1269224257.png-(420 KB, 600x506, 1269122849058.png)
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    Sukhoi! You're back! Pic related for my favourite plane nerd(ette)
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:18 No.8713109
         File1269224290.jpg-(49 KB, 653x454, F-16 Fighting Falcon.jpg)
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    He means the RPG section of the rules that Steve made himself.

    OP, how close are you in price range to an F-16 that could outclass your Phantom enough to be considered an upgrade?
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/21/10(Sun)22:20 No.8713155
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    Never. The F-16 is not the same class of a/c as the F-4.

    You just made my day! SAVED!
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:20 No.8713166
    Samefag here: Or a Panavia Tornado IDS?
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/21/10(Sun)22:24 No.8713224
    Tornado would be a better choice, but it's still old tech. I would say F-18, but a Tornado would do the job, bit cheaper too probably.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:27 No.8713292
    I'm certain the Tornado has been upgraded just as the Phantom has.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/21/10(Sun)22:28 No.8713319
    But the F-18 would be the better option over a Tornado or a Phantom. Strike Eagle as well now that I think about it.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:30 No.8713339
    Strike Eagle's really pushing it. He's running on a budget.
    Which makes me also believe that the F-18 would be too valuable to lose. A Tornado is probably cheaper and more accessible. As we saw, they're not invincible.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/21/10(Sun)22:31 No.8713373
    I just don't see the Tornado as a viable upgrade over a Phantom 2000. It's not enough capability upgrade to justify the price.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:32 No.8713400
    What ARE the prices, anyway? OP, how much money do you have and how much do any planes regarded as an upgrade cost?
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:33 No.8713417
    OP, would you happen to be in southern Ontario?

    I'd love to sit in on a session, and could reward my hosts with glorious beer.

    Keep on keepin' on.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:34 No.8713439
    I guess you guys aren't really concerned about this aspect but just how are you able to purchase any of these aircraft.

    Avoiding the sheet monetary upkeep in order to arm, maintain and fly these things combat aircraft just aren't something that can be obtained without being an actual nation and even then without alot of red tape.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:36 No.8713479
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    Admittedly this is fantasy-land, but it seems unlikely to me that a third-party mercenary squadron is going to find a vendor to sell them an F-18, much less maintenance parts and other support services.

    You need one of them whore-planes that have been sold to every shady fucker on the planet.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/21/10(Sun)22:36 No.8713483
    >combat aircraft just aren't something that can be obtained without being an actual nation

    People who own private MiGs and Sukhois might disagree with that. Or the three civilian registered F-4 Phantoms.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:36 No.8713488
    My PC's in the Starship Troopers RP want to be fighter pilots. Can you tell me the best way to run a game with fighter pilots?
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:37 No.8713490
    in b4 200 posts.

    Also, the mirage went down into a warehouse and then exploded in a fuck huge fireball of ordinance. I don't think IDing it is a huge concern.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:37 No.8713494
    In their world, mercenaries are allowed to buy planes, and planes and their munitions are available. They also have a good enough ground crew to maintain their planes and are given access to some airfields by employing countries. I'm sure they have their own bases around, somewhere, as well. This was discussed mostly in threads 1-3.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:43 No.8713593
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    Come on, OP, get back here and talk to us about cost.

    Pic mostly unrelated
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/21/10(Sun)22:44 No.8713614
    Q. How do you know your date with the fighter pilot is half over?
    A. He says "but enough about me - wanna hear about my plane?"

    Q: How do you know if there is a fighter pilot at your party?
    A: He'll tell you.

    Q: What's the difference between God and fighter pilots?
    A: God doesn't think he's a fighter pilot.

    Q: What's the difference between a fighter pilot and a jet engine?
    A: A jet engine stops whining when the plane shuts down.

    All you need to know.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:48 No.8713683
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    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/21/10(Sun)22:50 No.8713711
    I love that comic. So to Speak...
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:54 No.8713764
    Uh, I just realized: 2-seater F-22?
    Maybe the blue represents radio, but if it did, it should've shown another plane
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/21/10(Sun)22:55 No.8713779
    It's one big photo across three panels, third panel has the other plane.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:57 No.8713799
    ...I knew that.

    So come on OP, where'd you go? We need more info.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)22:59 No.8713832
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    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:06 No.8713945
    >same anon

    I need ideas for custom fighter aero/space jets.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:08 No.8713977
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    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:11 No.8714020
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:12 No.8714027
    A cool pic, but this has been posted already, as have several others in this thread. Let's save images for posts with relevant content.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:12 No.8714028
    Dangit OP, you shouldn't leave us hanging like that.

    I want Steve's modded rules!
    And more discussion of your game!
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:13 No.8714043

    Thanks anon. ^_^
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:20 No.8714144
    we should just make our own
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:22 No.8714162
    I could, sure. But this Steve seems like one of those 1 in 100 GMs, and I want to see what he's come up with.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:23 No.8714186
    Steve also knows his stuff.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:26 No.8714235
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    How often should Federation Fighter pilots get shot down by bug plasma?
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:29 No.8714285
    Book pilots or movie pilots? This is important.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:31 No.8714307

    The game (SST RP) is a 60% book and 40% movie. But I usually ignore the 40%.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:31 No.8714314
    I still say we try to make our own.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:38 No.8714428
    one every 10 sorties, more if they act stupid, less if they act smart
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:47 No.8714542
    In that case, ships are better at killing themselves than the bugs will ever be
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:52 No.8714618
    I just finished reading all the missions, they sound awesome!

    Do you know where the story is headed?
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:55 No.8714656
    We do know that the OP's squadron has been instrumental in capturing the crown prince of Morocco. Hopefully they don't get tied up with helping Libya.

    We also know the French foreign forces called in an airstrike on a hospital and the Liberians are idiots.
    We hope the OP's squadron takes a mission to kill at least one of those two forces.

    I repeat, please don't get tied up with this Prince of Morocco plot. You want to stay active, mobile, free...mercenary.
    >> Anonymous 03/21/10(Sun)23:57 No.8714675
    Save the Prince! Get tons of cash! And don't go after the French, they seem to have no problems with dirty jobs.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)00:19 No.8714982
    Writefag here, was going to dump this directly into a wiki, but since there's a thread, I'll place it here.
    Writing and researching as I go, my apologies if the pacing is jilted because of that.

    Smith was a data analyst. He lived comfortably in a 2 floor apartment near his job, got payed well to do what he did. He had a mind and an eye for pulling information from the tiniest details. His specialty was intelligence analysis, especially video or photographic surveillance sources. It was a skill he'd honed during his time as a counter sniper with the Treasury Department, but he'd always thought there might have been a some nepotism in his hire to The Company.

    Regardless of how he'd gotten the job, it had brought Smith into this dark room in Langley. It was an overlong conference room with not enough furniture. Veneer paneling, gray carpet floor, some poor interns had hauled a monster of a conference table in here and deposited some office chairs in a corner. Smith was in the process of rolling one of these across to the monolithic table when there was a rap on the door. Opening it Smith was confronted by the craggy features of one Operations Officer Partridge.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/22/10(Mon)00:22 No.8715039
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    That is one FUGLY plane, yet beautiful in that military "not meant to be pretty" sort of way.


    Can I get a link to those rules? Or at least to the archives?
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)00:25 No.8715067
    Planenewb here, what are the important differences between one seater and two seater jets?
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/22/10(Mon)00:28 No.8715105
    OP, you REALLY need to invest in some kind of gunpod.
    The M-61, the Suu-23, aden gun pods modified to fit on an F-4, ANYTHING.
    If you get into a dogfight and you're loaded out for ground pounding, you really should give up a hardpoint for a gun pod.

    Also, if you can, tell me if your GM has stats for a nuclear walleye.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)00:30 No.8715121
    >>Planenewb here, what are the important differences between one seater and two seater jets?

    Aircraft with two crew generally have one concentrating solely on flying while the other one concentrates on weapons systems, radio, electronic warfare, etc. This can make the aircraft a lot more effective at its given role. Expect to see this in more complicated/expensive/dedicated/high end aircraft.

    But for a lot of situations, you can get by with just one guy and it's cheaper. Computers handling more routine stuff and simplifying flight controls is making this an even more attractive option.
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/22/10(Mon)00:30 No.8715129
    If I recall correctly he's flying one of the F4 upgrades with an internal gun.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/22/10(Mon)00:32 No.8715159
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    Oh yeah, the F-4 has no vulcan or machineguns?

    Why in the world would they do that? I know it was made in the period where they figures missiles would totally supplant the gun action, but C'mon, a backup weapon never hurts!
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/22/10(Mon)00:33 No.8715185
    They were more or less fighting a guerrilla war, I don't think they expected dogfighting in any large quantity.
    They got SOME though.

    So what F-4 upgrade is OP flying?
    Is it the radical as shit Israeli Terminator 2010 I suggested in the very first thread?
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/22/10(Mon)00:35 No.8715211
    Forgot mah trip

    Partridge nodded to him and pushed past, dropping the cardboard file box he was carrying unceremoniously on the table. Smith stared at it for a moment, it sat slightly askew in the middle of the table, exuding an almost palpable sense of foreboding. Partridge was at the other end of the table now, fiddling with a projector.

    "Ander, pull the screen over there down and take a seat."

    Shiiiit... First names already, this was not going to be a good news day. Still smith did as he was told, bringing the thin white screen mounted on the wall down with a yank and pulling his chair up along side the box.

    "Been following the news lately son?"

    "Nothing aside from what comes across my desk sir."

    "You should do it more often, less tendency to get myopic about whatever corner of the world they've got you putting under a microscope. Few days back, you might have heard, the Liberians moved on the Crown Prince of Morocco."


    You don't even want to open that can of worms. Suffice to say it's a mistake that has since been corrected on the aircraft.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)00:37 No.8715258
    >>They were more or less fighting a guerrilla war, I don't think they expected dogfighting in any large quantity.

    Sort of the opposite. They expected a lot of air-to-air engagements. They just figured that missiles would be good enough to handle them when they occurred, making guns a less optimal use of mass.

    The poor reliability of that generation of air-to-air missiles and the prevalence of ground support missions flown prompted them to add gunpods and later, install guns on the aircraft.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/22/10(Mon)00:52 No.8715488
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    So is this the place they basically blew up in the last mission? Its pretty much the only port the Republic of Congo has, and one of its few cities.

    >Pointe-Noire is the second largest city in the Republic of the Congo, and an autonomous Department since 2004. Before this date it was the capital of the Kouilou region (now department). It is the main commercial centre of the country and has a population of 663,400 (2005 census). It is situated on a headland between Pointe-Noire Bay and the Atlantic Ocean.
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/22/10(Mon)00:58 No.8715570
    "More or less my words. The first operation involved the Diplo flight getting rerouted in the air by a merc outfit the Frogs have been working with. Of course that got the attention of the APLAA and MENA boys pretty quickly, and then that got the ball rolling. That where these come in."

    Partridge pointed to the screen, the projector now running and throwing an surveillance photo up on the screen. A port in the Congo, Pointe-Noire, according to the notation in the corner. Three objects were highlighted in red marker, aircraft.

    "Same jets from the diplo take down?"

    "The very same."

    Something clicked in Smith's head. It'd been nagging at him as soon as he saw the shot, but now he knew what it was.

    "Wait a minute. What is this, Congo? We didn't have any KH-11 KENNANs over there, and this looks too close anyway, I can count the flaps on that Sukhoi. Jesus Partridge did we have a bird in the air?"

    This only elicited a nod from the old man.

    "Well what did we send out there that that Sukhoi didn't just pick it out of the sky?"


    "Partridge, there's no such thing as an SR-71U..."

    The old man cleared his throat "Not at your pay grade no, do you want to see the rest?"

    Smith stifled his curiosity and nodded.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/22/10(Mon)00:58 No.8715582
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    However the heavy urban areas near the port don't really match up with what OP described the trucks forcing their way through. Namely the large open areas.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)01:02 No.8715627

    The only African country that owns them is Egypt, and they're not nearly close enough.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)01:05 No.8715660

    This is an alternate/near-future timeline where mercenary companies can operate, own and provide upkeep for advanced fighter jets, so capabilities of individual countries may not match IRL counterparts.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)01:07 No.8715684
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    I'm out for the night, if op posts again I'm sure I'll see it.

    OP: That Viggen looks amazing. It's got these odd curves and vents, but it just works. Not as good as a you know what, but I'm glad Scotch upgraded to a heavier fighter.

    F4 Questions: op has said he's in the Israeli Air Industries F-4 2000, new electronics, internal gun, etc.

    AAW, yes, they flew in Pointe Noir and that map was posted in the briefing, but in black and white with a convoy route drawn on it by Steve, who likes to add that layer of cool to stuff.

    NF, I'm liking what you have so far.

    Two crew planes are rarely seen these days, computers can handle most of the signals and electronic stuff. However, some aircraft, notably strike bombers, maintain a two man crew due to the intense nature of their operation. Two man crew can also help in a dogfight, extra pair of eyes to spot a plane.

    Sukhoi out.
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/22/10(Mon)01:25 No.8715971
    sorry, doing a few things at once here, next installment:

    "The Liberians gunned straight from the airstrip to the border, made a mess in the doing of it. Morocco squeezes the DRC, who hardly need the urging, and this is where things go a little funny, and why we put the bird in the air. We've got assets deployed down there, I won't get into specifics, but we needed to make sure that DRC boys didn't do anything stupid with them."

    "I'm guessing that if they hadn't I wouldn't be here?"

    "Smart boy." Partridge clicked and the image advanced, drastically zoomed. Three Hummers made up a roadblock. Another click, and the roadblock disappeared. Smith mulled this over, nothing particularly weird about that, surplus wasn't hard to come by. Another click, two more Hummers, but something was off.


    Partridge just nodded.

    "An Avenger?"

    Another nod. Click, the avenger mid firing. Click, What looked like half of a Mirage spiraling out of the air, the pilot rocketing out at an oblique angle. Click, further back again, four ovoid tubes plummeting to earth. Click, the whole dockside industrial complex bathed in flame.

    "Jesus Christ Partridge they naped it?"

    "223 incidentals is the latest count, haven't been able to confirm if any advisers are among that number."
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)01:35 No.8716131
    Were the hummers confirmed as US assets?
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/22/10(Mon)01:49 No.8716333

    Smith sat for a minute. "Well what are we waiting for, this is actionable, let's get the ball rolling."

    Partridge shook his head slowly "The ball goes nowhere, and we're going to make sure of that. We've got them nailed, and we're going to keep them that way." Smith gave him a bemused look and partridge sighed. "Keep up now. These guys went megaton when one of their pilots got splashed, the dropped a helicoptor on a traffic jam, little while back they blew up a hospital because the Frogs tossed a smoke grenade at it. This is what we call an asset, and thanks to these" he gestured at the screen "They are a free one if we need them."

    Smith raised his eyes at the hospital part. Partridge caught it. "Now you're getting it, yes, these are the ones you let slip, these are the guys that you let the director of APLAA find out about on CNN. That--" partridge pointed at the box."Is your second chance. You fucked it bad, here's your second chance. The box is aircraft specs, company background and dossiers for the pilots as well as some of the support staff. Keep an eye on them, indefinately. It's in your power to yank on the leash a bit if you need to, and keep us appraised of anything you think warrants our attention, but other than that it's your call."

    Smith sat numb for a beat, this was not what he had been expecting. Transfer, demotion, not this.
    Partridge offered a final shot as he left, "Don't fuck this one up son, this is your new office now, I'll have a coffee maker and the rest of the files sent in shortly." Smith sighed deeply, slumped a bit, and pulled off the top of the box.

    That's all for now folks.
    They weren't, but I'm guessing.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)01:54 No.8716429

    >partridge sighed.

    >the dropped a helicoptor

    I think you need sleep, dude.
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/22/10(Mon)02:08 No.8716670
    fuck...yes. Yes I do.

    Other than me needing to proof does it work?
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)02:22 No.8716890

    This is good stuff, keep it up!
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)02:29 No.8717004
    Thanks, I'll catch some zzzzz. Just hope I haven't jumped the gun with the CIA connection. Seems logical enough to me though.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)07:22 No.8719764
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    Good morning /tg/

    Goddamnit I hate being in this shitty timezone sometimes
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)08:17 No.8720222
    I liked the writefagging, even if it's unlikely to go anywhere except fannon. Also, who scared off the OP, I want more Merc Airforce.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)08:21 No.8720247
    just one question, why is Scotch getting the older Viggen and not the newer Gripen?
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)08:24 No.8720275
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    Most likely because the Gripen is too expensive

    I wonder if he'll ever get to land on a road with his new bird :P
    >> planefag 03/22/10(Mon)09:54 No.8720980

    Mornin, fligh/tg/uy!

    So Scotch is getting a Viggen, eh? In your pic there, the Viggen looks like some kind of totally bitching UFO thing. It's awesome.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)10:00 No.8721023
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    Yeah, not as sexy as a Draken (pic related), but definitely a sweet looking bird
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)10:47 No.8721507
    Good Morning.

    fligh/tg/uy planefag, what timezones?

    And yes, op's Viggen pic is amazing.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)10:58 No.8721584
    GMT +1 for me

    How 'bout you?
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)11:01 No.8721621
    GMT -6
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)11:11 No.8721740
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    OP, you know what you need?

    SEPECAT Jaguar.

    The French and Germans gave the Phantom the finger, and built their own damn fighter. Result was a cheap and reliable attacker, rough field capable (seen video of it taking off from a field, with trenches dug in it... too off no sweat) and was used pretty heavily in the Gulf taking out airfields with rockets and 1000lb bombs.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)11:15 No.8721793
    Enjoy about 8600 pounds less of ordnance...
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)11:16 No.8721799
    The French and the British. The Germans still use F4s, not sure if they ever had Jaguars.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)11:26 No.8721919
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    F4s rock.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)11:30 No.8721953
    Ah yes, the Luftverteidigungsdiesel ("Air Defense Diesel"). Gotta love zee Germans

    And no, they don't have Jaguars AFAIK
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)11:34 No.8722009
    So, what is this all about? I keep seeing these plane threads show up now.
    >> Skyhawk !c6DO1M4BMw 03/22/10(Mon)11:34 No.8722017
    I go away for a day and look what I miss. Ugh...I hate having to play catch up.

    Viggen huh? If you stick with weapons that were designed to be used by it you're severely limited. If you can safely diversify then its an awesome choice. Reliable and can take off from a one lane dirt road practically anywhere. Personally I would have chosen something different but hey...

    NF, interesting bit of fiction that...other nations getting involved now.

    I'm still wondering about the HMMVs and the Avenger. I've done a bit of looking and yeah, Egypt is the only country in africa that looks to have them which makes me wonder how much pull the government of Morocco used to get something like that in to help. We need answers on this OP.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)11:36 No.8722033
    Huh, I thought I'd seen pictures of them with Luftwaffe markings... mighta mixed it up with the Tornado, my bad.

    And kids, this is why fanboism is bad- the Jaguar wins over the F4 in turning speed, but otherwise go for the Phantom.

    Had a browse for some other suggestions, I'm suprised that the Phantom is a bigger bombtruck than a fucking Fencer bomber.... 18000lb compared to 17000lb.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)11:37 No.8722055
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    It's a triumph of thrust over aerodynamics.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)11:45 No.8722170
    I'm a bit late to the party, but I've been trying to track down a description of this particular dog fight ever since I saw these threads, and well, the op question for this thread just happens to be the reason I was looking for it. Great example of a pilot using a high thrust aircraft against a more manoeuvrable aircraft in the jet age. (My understanding is that Cunningham was in the earlier F4, no guns, so op has a fair few advantages over him with newer electronics and missiles at his disposal.)

    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)11:48 No.8722201

    Like a brick shithouse with a rocket attached. That can fuck you up 6 ways to Sunday.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)11:49 No.8722229
    Every fighter pilot in history uses the hand gesture dogfight... :D
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)11:50 No.8722245
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    So, aside from Sukhoi playing against herself, has anybody else aside from OP tried out the rules system yet?

    And yes, the little variation in Viggen weapons systems might be an issue
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)11:55 No.8722316
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    I'm actually playing an eight on eight today, a Cold War gone Hot Scenario, down at mil buff's garage.

    And yes, my wing is the Flanker aggressor.
    >> Skyhawk !c6DO1M4BMw 03/22/10(Mon)11:57 No.8722334

    Ooh sounds like fun. You'll have to tell us how it goes. And i've not tried them yet because I hate playing against myself with something like this.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)11:59 No.8722357
    What he said
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)12:01 No.8722391
    What they said.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)12:28 No.8722729
    Back to OP's new plane.

    If I hear Strike Eagle once more I'm gonna scream. OP wants a multi role aircraft!

    Now he mentioned the Super Hornet before, and I agree it's a great jet for many purposes. But somehow this thread keeps mentioning the F/A-18. The Super Hornet is a brand new design. There is some part interchangeability with the Hornet, but the Super Hornet is an entirely new airframe. And I would never suggest OP get an old F/A-18. So strop saying that.

    I would buy Russian in OP's position, but that's just me, I like reliability. The slavshit array of AA missiles might also be a factor. Nothing against AMRAAMs, but they're limited. And the whole IR AND radar idea appeals to me. Although one should mention that the new American radar systems are much more sophisticated and sheer power can't make up for everything.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)12:42 No.8722875
    But Russian shit isn't reliable. The Russians are known (especially with aircraft) for screwing their customers over; they sell them machines that break down and when it comes time for the promised Russian maintenance team to show up... they never do.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)12:47 No.8722949
    Or that crap with the Indian Su-30MKI's, where they have to send broken engines to the russians and get sent new ones because the russkis apparently don't want them repairing their own engines or something...
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:00 No.8723125
    Yes, but that's all politics with export models. The actual maintenance is much easier than on most US jets. Russian designers tend to rely more on sturdy parts and ingenious solutions where US technicians use intricacy.

    That means less ground time, and increases survivability (OK, maybe not in a game context).

    But 10 times as much maintenance as air time is a good estimate for US planes, exclusing battle damage. And that is just way too much for a mercenary company to be effective. They don't have a carrier group with supplies flown in twice a day.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:09 No.8723237
    Hm. Was it confirmed by OP that in this alt-reality, Merc companies can buy planes directly? The way I see it, a country could employ the company, buy a plane, and sell it forward under the counter to the company. And I see nothing odd about, say, Pakistani, Iranian, South African or Belarussian big-wigs selling incredibly dangerous military hardware forward for a good profit for their slush funds. They're already selling their country and people for the highest bidder, so what would those of others matter?

    A horrible idea, of course, but...

    Also, did anything come up on about how the whole operation Nuke Congo affected the media? And how the company felt about the massive incidentials?
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:20 No.8723395

    for any newcomers...
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:32 No.8723568
    Actually, we were postulating that that is how the merc company acquired planes.

    The Super Hornet is not a new airframe, it's the old hornet with modified intakes, and a few component changes. It's the same hornet underneath, just heavier.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)13:47 No.8723782
    Apart from the forward fuselage most of it is different from the old Hornet...
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:50 No.8723820
    Specifications (F/A-18C/D) Data from U.S. Navy fact file,[59] Aerospaceweb[60]
    * Crew: F/A-18C: 1, F/A-18D: 2 (pilot and weapons system officer)
    * Length: 56 ft (17.1 m) * Wingspan: 40 ft (12.3 m) * Height: 15 ft 4 in (4.7 m) * Wing area: 400 ft² (38 m²) * Airfoil: NACA 65A005 mod root, 65A003.5 mod tip * Empty weight: 24,700 lb (11,200 kg) * Loaded weight: 37,150 lb (16,850 kg) * Max takeoff weight: 51,550 lb (23,400 kg)
    * Powerplant: 2× General Electric F404-GE-402 turbofans
    o Dry thrust: 11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) each
    o Thrust with afterburner: 17,750 lbf (79.2 kN) each

    Specifications (F/A-18E/F) Data from U.S. Navy fact file,[12] Aerospaceweb[81]
    * Crew: F/A-18E: 1, F/A-18F: 2 * Length: 60 ft 1¼ in (18.31 m) * Wingspan: 44 ft 8½ in (13.62 m) * Height: 16 ft (4.88 m) * Wing area: 500 ft² (46.45 m²) * Empty weight: 30,600 lb (13,900 kg) * Loaded weight: 47,000 lb (21,320 kg) (in fighter configuration) * Max takeoff weight: 66,000 lb (29,900 kg)
    * Powerplant: 2× General Electric F414-GE-400 turbofans
    o Dry thrust: 14,000 lbf (62.3 kN) each
    o Thrust with afterburner: 22,000 lbf (97.9 kN) each
    anks, totaling 16,380 lb (7,430 kg)
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:51 No.8723840
    Stretching a fuselage with a plug doesn't make it 'new' or else the 'new' Boeing 747-8i is a "new" airframe.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)13:53 No.8723854
    If that were all they did...
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:54 No.8723866
    Super Hornet: Up Engined, Stretched variant of the F-18.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:55 No.8723876
    You Do realize that there is a difference between modifying a cargo/passenger plane and changing the shape of a high performance, wide envelope supersonic weapons platform, right?
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:56 No.8723894
    The Navy retained the F/A-18 designation to help sell the program to Congress as a low-risk "derivative", though the Super Hornet is largely a new aircraft. The Hornet and Super Hornet share many design and flight characteristics, including avionics, ejection seats, radar, armament, mission computer software, and maintenance/operating procedures.

    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:57 No.8723898
    There really isn't. It's all aeronautical engineering.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)13:59 No.8723926
    Calling a variant a new aircraft is misleading. They stretched the frame, did a little work on the wing, changed the inlets and put a modified engine on it. It is not, by any stretch of the imagination a 'new' airplane. It's newer than the A-C models, but it's still a hornet. Not that I like quoting wiki, but your little blurb even says 'same flight characteristics' which means that it's a fair guess that its the same design.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)14:07 No.8724028
    >same flight characteristics
    >share many design and flight characteristics

    You make your own truth.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)14:08 No.8724042
    You're arguing semantics.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)14:10 No.8724066
    You started it. And the idea is that semantics express underlying facts.

    But I'm done now, this is devalueing the whole thread.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:14 No.8725046
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    Bump for awesome! Gotta ask, given the choice of sex with pictured for the rest of your life, or flying a jet fighter, which would you guys take?
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:17 No.8725105
    just the one time or for a living?
    you know what... doesn't matter

    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:19 No.8725128
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    The NEED for... fucking the shit out of that girl.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)15:19 No.8725136
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    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:19 No.8725146

    I've flown in a Eurofighter.

    My father's placed pretty high up in the defence aerospace industry in the UK and has a lot of MoD contacts. He pulled some strings and I got to fly in one for my 21st birthday.

    Fucking incredible. You would not believe how ridiculously agile that thing is.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:20 No.8725154
    I trust Goose.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:21 No.8725170
    anon, I wish to kill you and wear your skin...
    nothing personal, of course
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:21 No.8725171
    I love how the ejection handles make a halo over his head.

    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:22 No.8725200
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    Shut it Hot Shot. You always take the plane. A plane will never break your heart.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:29 No.8725306
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    But jets are like women.

    The performance gets worse the higher you get her. Once you've dropped your load with her she's only good for small gun strafes. Not to mention the maintenance!

    And they signal left but turn right if you try to tail them.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:32 No.8725362
    >sex with pictured for the rest of your life

    If it's for the rest of your life, I don't see how you're going to end up with a broken heart.

    Although it is just sex, so... eh.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)15:40 No.8725531
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    Jet fighter, no questions asked
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:41 No.8725543
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    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:46 No.8725608
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    She'll get old and dried up. A jet will always get me hard.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)15:47 No.8725625
    Best Top Gun Character ever!

    "Remember one thing: if you screw up, just this much, you'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong!"
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)15:47 No.8725637
    Why post this EVERY time?
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)15:50 No.8725678
    Harder than that plastic dog shit, huh?
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)15:50 No.8725683
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    Viper: Maverick's got it wrong.
    Jester: Goose's got the right idea.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)15:51 No.8725696
    Ah, crap, shoulda been rubber...

    Well, scratch that last comment then, I cook socks
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)15:53 No.8725751
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    By the way, Sukhoi, how did it go with your Flanker aggressor wing?
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/22/10(Mon)15:59 No.8725844
    The flankers took out the KC-135, but lost 6. The Americans lost 3 eagles in total.

    We then decided that wasn't enough, so as the Flankers bugged out, the Eagles joined up with two vipers for an airfield strike, and were met by three Fulcrums rushed into the air. All Fulcrums destroyed, but both vipers and another eagle downed.

    We called it a draw, and Brian is writing up some campaign rules.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)16:04 No.8725929
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    Tanker denial huh? Nice :D

    Let us know if/when those rules are don :)
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)16:04 No.8725948

    >> Skyhawk !c6DO1M4BMw 03/22/10(Mon)16:42 No.8726642

    hmm not so hot for your team Sukhoi...
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)16:44 No.8726666
    Speaking of which, any particular reason you lost?

    Plane stats? Tactics? Just crappy dice rolls?
    >> Skyhawk !c6DO1M4BMw 03/22/10(Mon)16:48 No.8726743

    Or is it that your Fulcrums just aren't measuring up to your real world expectations in the game?
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)16:50 No.8726779
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    Like I said, plane stats ;)
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)17:06 No.8727034
    I don't think she lost, taking out a tanker is a big strategic hit, and depending on the airfield condition, it sounds like it was a successful defence.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)17:08 No.8727073
    Eh, based on my knowledge of modern air combat, that'd count as a net loss for mother russia.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)17:10 No.8727109
    I guess I should've set 'didn't win', but whatever
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)17:11 No.8727114
    US Losses
    1 KC-135
    4 F-15 Eagles
    2 F-16 Vipers

    Russian losses
    6 Flankers
    3 Fulcrums

    I'm not sure. Losing a tanker is a big loss.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)17:35 No.8727618
    Eh, if it was an AWACS, I'd give it to sukhoi. The US has a lot of tankers though.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)17:42 No.8727749
    Americans didn't take out the airfield though, which would be a success for the Russians.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)17:43 No.8727765
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    We can only hope the surviving Eagles reach bingo fuel long before they reach their base :P
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)17:45 No.8727798
    There's that end of it as well. Hadn't thought of that.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)17:49 No.8727912
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    Speaking of which, wasn't there something like that during an exercise a while ago?

    F-22s getting scrapped in a simulation where Sukhois denied them their aerial refueling?

    I seem to remember reading about something like that a while back...
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)18:27 No.8728722
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    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)18:34 No.8728896
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    'Sup, tiny
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)19:19 No.8729856
    Awesome Viggen!
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)19:32 No.8730051
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    Coming back on the weapons thing, I just found out the JA37D is AMRAAM compatible :)

    Bombs, rocket pods and AGM65A are possible as well, as well as Skyflash missiles and Sidewinders.

    Not bad overall, I suppose
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/22/10(Mon)19:46 No.8730241
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    Anywho, I'm off for tonight, hope to see you guys again tomorrow.

    Fligh/tg/uy out.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)20:29 No.8730957
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    Back in a bit.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)20:35 No.8731049
    OH MY GOD I just read the perfect execution of the Plane-nap in thread 9.
    That hiding behind the civvie plane was some class shit.
    I love this saga.
    Never end.
    >> LingerieLady !!mXroPPMr82u 03/22/10(Mon)20:42 No.8731160
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    Sounds like you need a Tactical Surface Fighter F-14.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)20:50 No.8731336
    >Also, did anything come up on about how the whole operation Nuke Congo affected the media? And how the company felt about the massive incidentials?

    All over the news. The internet, the television, the newspapers, every fucking media outlet, front pages, breaking stories, footage of dockworkers with third-degree burns staggering out of the inferno, widows howling in the streets of Pointe-Noire.

    Jason Cath couldn’t help it, but a secret guilt sat beside him in the cafe where he had stopped for a coffee; how many he’d had that day, he wasn’t sure. He was almost certain that it disrupted his digestive process. Like hunger, guilt gnawed at him, a persistent dull pain– something visceral—and he wondered if he was wasting away. Or if people could tell. Every time his phone rang he nearly jumped out of his skin, thinking it would be the company, or the CIA, or DGSE, or SVR, or any number of people who’d like to find out where all that napalm had come from.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)20:54 No.8731404
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    With the growing prominence of PMCs in issues of world security, the arms market had flourished, and seldom so well as it had in places like Bulgaria, conveniently positioned as a ferrying point for ex-Soviet weaponry. Sofia casinos were full of Slavic hucksters with gold chains hoping to offload a few crates of SA-7 missile systems. Those guys were fine for insurgency groups and tin-pot paramilitary groups. Any PMC that could field jet fighters, on the other hand, preferred to deal in more rarefied company, and frequently through an intermediary like Jason. They appreciated the professionalism and the distance from the source.

    Then two hundred Congolese got torched, and that distance was obliterated by the mass media. And so people like Jason would have days like this. Weeks, even. It was part of a business cycle natural to mercenary companies and arms dealers. Sometimes things just got a little too hot and something had to boil over. Presumably someone had pulled the rug out from under those pilots in the Congo, and that same rug extended to the company, which then extended to people like Jason, which then extended to their various sources, not all of whom could be counted upon to respond rationally.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)21:05 No.8731616
    He was certain that someone would be looking for him in Sofia. The company had assured him it would look after him, but he had no doubt that deniability would come first. It was for this reason that he’d decided to go to Sarajevo until things blew over.

    Jason left a few lev on the table, tucked a newspaper under his arm, and stepped outside, casually taking in his surroundings. His big Citroen was right across the street, a single efficiently-packed suitcase in its trunk. A black Mercedes was idling a few parking spaces behind his own. Two men in sunglasses stood at the end of the street, neither seeming very interested in conversation with the other. Together they turned and began to walk in Jason’s direction at a leisurely pace.

    Though suddenly his face felt warm, Jason felt his blood run cold as he crossed the street and got into his car. He kept a Makarov 9mm under his seat, so he took it from its hiding place and racked the slide, then put it out of sights next to his thigh. Then he waited.
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/22/10(Mon)21:18 No.8731892
    I like where his is going, keep it up. (and shame on Jason for not carrying that little thing cocked and locked.)
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)22:11 No.8732911
    Dammit /tg/, I've spent the last two days getting caught up on this.
    This is seriously the coolest series of threads that I've seen on /tg/ this year.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)22:37 No.8733294
    There will be more, probably. I'll save it for Thread XIV, or whenever OP sends more news. I worry about diluting the amazing stuff that originally made this series of threads epic.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)23:21 No.8734006
    I can't believe the OP made such a short bit of posting this time around.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)23:30 No.8734135
    No offense, but that looks like shit.
    >> Anonymous 03/22/10(Mon)23:41 No.8734312
    Welcome to the horrible waiting game. It drives me nuts waiting for more from this awesome situation.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)00:12 No.8734762
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    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)00:56 No.8735507
    OP again

    BlackFlag Internal Document #100329

    Mission Briefing “Ivy Serpent”
    Deployment: Kitona
    Pancake: Kitona
    Alternate: Luanda (Angola)
    AAR: Il-78 Midas “Conoco” available
    AWACS: R-99 “Bird Dog” available
    CSAR: C-27J Available on request

    Contract Employer: Viktor Bout

    Objective: Locate and divert or render the UN fleet combat ineffective.

    Background: This one's pretty simple folks, we've got a request from another mercenary, arms dealer really, who needs to get some heat taken off his operation. I know you're all itching to go toe to toe with the Liberians, but we need to stay focused and generate liquidity. We're putting the Liberian situation on back burner, and letting the intel guys sniff around what's left of Pointe Noire, see if we can find out who hit you and why. In the meantime, Bout has asked us to help him get some cargo through a joint UN/Interpol blockade. Currently, they have numerous small ocean going ships off the west coast of the continent, investigating all merchant traffic. Naturally, Bout is worried his latest shipment to some godforsaken hell hole is going to get snapped up by them. Your job will be to locate the main blockade, and draw it away from Bout's ships until they are clear, or disable the vessel's ability to pursue Bout's ships. On a side note, Bout asked for your squadron personally, you should consider a name for your flight so our marketing team can begin whipping up sale's proposals.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)00:57 No.8735523
    op again

    HUMINT: The UN/Interpol blockade is a matter of public record, so our force analysis should be fairly accurate. The patrol is operating in a box roughly 400 miles off the coast, covering area that the local navies of the African coastal countries cannot secure.
    ELINT: Available on request
    SATINT: Sporadic cloudcover has rendered satellite intelligence useless.
    Air Assets: Lynx Helicopters
    Surface Assets: HNLMS Van Amstel (Dutch Frigate), HMDS Niels Juel and Olfert Fischer (Danish Corvette)

    Threat Assessment: High, these aren't third world warriors, but professional naval crews onboard modern weapon's platforms. They are highly skilled, and proficient. It may be best to attempt to divert their attention, rather then engage in open hostilities.

    ROE: Engage at will.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)00:57 No.8735540

    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:00 No.8735590

    I do believe this is Steve's first slipup in accuracy. That'd be IMINT.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:01 No.8735618
    >On a side note, Bout asked for your squadron personally, you should consider a name for your flight so our marketing team can begin whipping up sale's proposals.

    Oh god, oh god, oh god. I have no idea where to start with this one.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:04 No.8735673

    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:04 No.8735676
    Scratch my baleeted post, I meant SIGINT, not comint would be better than ELINT.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:06 No.8735714
    I have the strangest urge to photochop a marketing brochure...
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:08 No.8735740
    What you said doesn't make grammatical sense. Try again, please?
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:08 No.8735741
    OP again,

    I have no clue how to go about this mission. The range means we're going to get the MIDAS for sure. But this seems more complicated despite being 'simple'. Steve added that we should arrive on scene about 15 minutes before Bout's ships are detected.

    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:08 No.8735748
         File1269320906.png-(906 KB, 1800x1275, Ravenwood-Promo.png)
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    Something like this, maybe?
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)01:09 No.8735770
         File1269320970.jpg-(268 KB, 1472x1104, HMDS_Niels_Juel_F354.jpg)
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    Oh man, going up against the UN? This could get ugly. They don't seem to have much in the way of air support however.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:10 No.8735781
         File1269321006.jpg-(50 KB, 400x600, C22-383-18.jpg)
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    Man the Harpoons!
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:11 No.8735801
    This is the first mission where OP's group has AAR, and AWACs available. To me that means Steve is going to throw a big curveball.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)01:11 No.8735804
         File1269321085.jpg-(2.15 MB, 2100x1500, HNLMS_Van_Amstel_F831.jpg)
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    Just looking at the pics I see SAMs. Well, I suppose they could be anti-ship missiles.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:11 No.8735807
    Yes, actually, but you'll need a cargo plane or several.

    Look up what they did on the paratroop drop the night before D-Day to confuse German radars. As a distraction away from the main drop, they had a train of Allied cargo planes/bombers (can't recall which) fly inland tossing out stacks of small iron strips. To the German radars, it looked like a GIANT BOMBING RUN was coming straight down their throat.

    Get the details on that, and copy it.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:12 No.8735822
    The dutch ship has the A-10s cannon mounted on it in an air-defense/anti-missile system.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:13 No.8735839
    Modern Radar is harder to spoof.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)01:14 No.8735871
         File1269321295.jpg-(128 KB, 1106x730, Olfert.jpg)
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    Niels Juel and the Olfert are the same class (Niels Juel class).
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:15 No.8735882
    Yes, but:
    1) You can modify the Allies' plan and improve it to better spoof modern radars
    2) It'll still freak the fuck out of the UN patrols, causing them to investigate.

    And all they'll find are a few lonely cargo planes owned by a merc corp who had to "dump some cargo due to engine troubles."
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)01:18 No.8735925
         File1269321487.jpg-(359 KB, 1450x980, Helicopter_of_the_Brazilian_Na(...).jpg)
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    The Lynx choppers look to be standard transport/SAR, can carry weapons, but nothing too threatening beyond 20mm cannons and .50cals.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:18 No.8735927
    Precision Strikes at Affordable Prices.
    Collateral Damage: NO CHARGE!
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:20 No.8735971

    That's a good name for the OP's group: Collateral Flight.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:21 No.8735999
         File1269321681.jpg-(135 KB, 750x600, stupidter.jpg)
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    I think someone is going to die this time. You aren't facing off against pic related.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)01:28 No.8736136
         File1269322127.jpg-(182 KB, 1280x903, F356_-_PETO.jpg)
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    Yeah this looks dangerous, maybe a way can be found to distract/draw them off without taking too much risk.
    >> Gaow? 03/23/10(Tue)01:29 No.8736165
    I don't know, in 'Nam weren't automatic grenade launchers pretty common on transport choppers? Seems like a good way to do some damage.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:31 No.8736208
    Against a jet, it's useless.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)01:32 No.8736215
         File1269322326.jpg-(178 KB, 800x600, hqmndse2009131168.jpg)
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    Perhaps, but against jet fighters? Unless they've got some fucking awesome gunners the Helos area pretty much a non-entity I think.

    And that is even if the Mercs engage in visual range.

    Then again I'm not really a /k/ fag, especially with modern stuff.
    >> Skyhawk !c6DO1M4BMw 03/23/10(Tue)01:33 No.8736229
    Wasn't expecting another brief tonight so i took a break. Guess I was wrong.

    If at all possible you'll want to avoid direct action. Use all the intel you can get and see if you can avoid action. Perhaps a anti-shipping missile, cheap one, at a near by freighter to draw the warship's attention away while your clients ships make a break for it. It'll take some thinking on. I'll get back to this tomorrow with some more concrete thoughts.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:35 No.8736279
    Stay very low, reduce their ability to detect you at range. Hide under the curve of the earth.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)01:37 No.8736321
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    As deplorable as that is I did consider such a tactic, but would the patrol group really send all 3 ships? I think At best you'd draw one or two off and just put them on alert.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/23/10(Tue)01:38 No.8736337
         File1269322714.jpg-(93 KB, 618x347, outofcontrol.jpg)
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    Steve, you magnificent Bastard!
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:38 No.8736344
    Well, they do have a spare anti-ship missile from a previous mission...
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/23/10(Tue)01:41 No.8736404
    All the ships I think are equipped with Sea Sparrow anti-air missiles. You'll want standoff anti-ship missiles if you choose to engage them OP. Also keep in mind, the individual ships will probably be separated by many miles, to maximize search ability.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:41 No.8736407
         File1269322874.jpg-(39 KB, 500x248, ins_tabar1.jpg)
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    The VIking Navy is getting involved? SHIT JUST GOT REAL.
    >> Skyhawk !c6DO1M4BMw 03/23/10(Tue)01:43 No.8736453

    Then do more than one. Split the squadron and hit multiple different vessels throughout and outside the patrol area... dispersed enough that it forces them to split their force to deal with all the damaged ships.

    Someone find a decent antiship missile, probably soviet era, that you think could be bought for cheap and spammed.
    >> Skyhawk !c6DO1M4BMw 03/23/10(Tue)01:48 No.8736558
    you've gotta make it look like its unrelated too. if needs be hit a suspect ship(not one of the employers ships) just to make it look good. Either that or go after big company name ships and use the internet to cook up and portray it as some extreme socialist group's scheme to hit the big companies of the world in the pocket book.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:50 No.8736612
    Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck! Viktor Bout is a real guy. I was just looking at his wiki page today as reference for the Jason Cath story. Clearly this campaign takes place in a near-dystopian setting if a corporation is ready and willing to take on the UN. Bad. Ass.

    I second the suggestion that you misdirect the blockade. Also, just wondering whether Bout might actually be setting you up. You did just blow up a port that a lot of his business may have been going through.

    OP, I also reiterate my South Ontario question/offer.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:52 No.8736661
    Drop a buoy in the water where at least two of the ships should head to investigate. Have it transmit a message about an (ocean liner, freighter, oil hauler) getting hijacked by pirates. The UN will steam to the rescue, and a ship slipping into the coast should be less important.

    Remember, all your employer needs is an opening.

    Thing is, most of the easy ways to handle this don't seem to need jet fighters.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:55 No.8736715
    OP again
    Not in Southern ontario, but thanks for the offer.

    Like in Firefly!

    I like that aspect of it, spin control outside the mission itself.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/23/10(Tue)01:56 No.8736735
         File1269323792.jpg-(56 KB, 800x512, Su-33_missile.jpg)
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    >Someone find a decent antiship missile, probably soviet era

    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)01:56 No.8736739

    That's exactly where I got the idea from.

    "Cry, baby, cry."
    "Make your mother sigh."
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)02:00 No.8736803
         File1269324055.jpg-(13 KB, 250x274, Виктор Бут.jpg)
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    >I second the suggestion that you misdirect the blockade. Also, just wondering whether Bout might actually be setting you up. You did just blow up a port that a lot of his business may have been going through.

    >Thing is, most of the easy ways to handle this don't seem to need jet fighters.

    Yeah, something does seem fishy about this besides "Fuck UN!". There has to be easier ways of getting this done other than hiring 5 mercenary jets. Unless this guy really does just want you to blow the frigates to scrap.

    Be sure to pack at least some anti-air capability.

    I mean, I wouldn't trust this man...
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/23/10(Tue)02:03 No.8736842
    Bout asked for you guys personally, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)02:05 No.8736870
    >Also, just wondering whether Bout might actually be setting you up. You did just blow up a port that a lot of his business may have been going through.
    >Thing is, most of the easy ways to handle this don't seem to need jet fighters.
    This makes me worried. Stay frosty, dude, I think shit is going to hit the fan hard in this one.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)02:07 No.8736915
    I have an idea, depending on how much of an asshole you're willing to be.

    Attack a civilian ship inside the patrol area. They'll send up a distress call. The UN forces will steam off to save them, possibly dividing their force. From there, you can break off and run, firing extreme-range shots every so often at the UN forces to keep their attention on you while your client makes his run. If you *really* want to be an ass, flat-out sink a civvie ship to force the UN to spend time rescuing survivors out of the water.

    Also, keep in mind that with everything else you guys have done it's very possible this is a setup. I've got a baaaad feeling about that avenger you iced last mission. It might be prudent to leave one guy with a full anti-air loadout watching your escape route.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/23/10(Tue)02:09 No.8736970
         File1269324583.jpg-(41 KB, 591x394, r99a_01.jpg)
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    Take the AWACS.
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/23/10(Tue)02:10 No.8736977
    Let's see here. Pictured is a Goalkeeper. aka CIWS on PCP. It's literally just a GAU-8 built into the deck, and unlike an American CIWS is good for more than one burst. Avoid the bow of the Dutch vessel.

    This may get the UN very fucking ripshit turbo pissed at you, but one way to keep all three ships occupied would be to get one chasing you, snap it in half with a suitable anti-ship missile, letting the second one go to pick up the men trying to get off the first, swing back around and (as if to consolidate your reputation) drop BLU-10s on the third ship, reminding the Danes of their heritage.

    I think you can burn away before the choppers become and really problem, but keep Hugs loaded with enough AA ordnance to stop Pearl Harbor and orbiting, constant contact with your AWACS because, well, Steve.

    Also Reaper Flight, War Flight, Inferno Flight, Flaming Aces, Burning Apostles, Prophets of Doom, Harbinger Flight, hell if I know, play up the legend though. Y'all have done some nasty shit, and regardless of your feelings about it, it cannot hurt to play up your image of being the ugliest, dirtiest motherfuckers in the sky.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)02:11 No.8737008
         File1269324681.jpg-(47 KB, 347x500, bout.jpg)
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    This is part of why we're starting to smell a setup.

    They're not famous, unless The Company has been bragging about their new squadron, no one should really know what they've been up to. So WHY is this guy asking for them personally? To do a mission that could potentially be done better some other way.

    It just doesn't feel right...

    >The nickname 'Sanctions Buster' is due to Bout having been implicated in facilitating the violation of UN arms embargoes in Angola, Liberia, Sierra Leone and the Democratic Republic of Congo.[19]

    >and the Democratic Republic of Congo

    This guy has also supposedly had dealings with Angola, which is just south of the DRC.

    The more and more I look at it...

    The only hitch is..

    >Bout may have facilitated huge arms shipments into various civil wars in Africa with his private air cargo fleets during the 1990s.

    This guy uses planes, not boats... Odd.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)02:11 No.8737016
    Cableguy Flight

    You "get 'er done!" no matter what the cost.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)02:13 No.8737045

    I would definitely bring this up to your group. Steve seems like the sort of GM who will reward those who have done their homework.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)02:17 No.8737123
    Name: Scorched Earthmen
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/23/10(Tue)02:22 No.8737222
         File1269325356.jpg-(31 KB, 726x389, Moskit_missile.jpg)
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    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/23/10(Tue)02:22 No.8737226
         File1269325362.jpg-(40 KB, 580x464, Goalkeeper.jpg)
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    Picture fail.

    Having read the responses, I'm thinking the distraction via civilian distress method would be the best approach, with the more 'overt' ideas like mine being a last ditch. See if you can get some good int on tankers or super freighters in the area, buzz and or cannon pass as many as you can, just light up the local comms with to many maydays for them to ignore.

    And I REALLY second the "This smells of betrayal and ass." movement here, Ever see Lord of War? Do you really want to work for that guy? Because this guy is the real that guy, only without a handy Jared Leto to act as a martyr for his conscience. Stay very very frosty.

    You're going to hell.
    Might have something there. Sherman Flight? Dresden Flight?
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)02:29 No.8737328
         File1269325772.jpg-(78 KB, 750x536, 1268715161883.jpg)
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    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)02:36 No.8737445
    What are the rules for this game?
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)02:42 No.8737537
         File1269326539.jpg-(22 KB, 797x393, F-20.jpg)
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    I think its a modified RPG-fied version of "Airwar: C21".

    There were a few other systems mentioned though, so I could be wrong.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/23/10(Tue)02:48 No.8737633
         File1269326907.jpg-(403 KB, 768x414, Su-35S-Kh-35UE-KAB-1500L-VVK-1(...).jpg)
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    You're right.

    Pic is of Switchblade.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)02:50 No.8737659
         File1269327030.jpg-(658 KB, 1535x2362, 1268499595195.jpg)
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    Did you ever post all the material for AW:C21? I got the "FlankersRule.PDF" (heh) but that was it.

    I must say, all this really makes me want to run a similar game using Crimson Skies.
    >> sukhoi !KJHro3/ISM 03/23/10(Tue)02:53 No.8737701
    Yep, other one is out there. Check the other threads.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)02:54 No.8737711

    la mort sans frontières
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)03:17 No.8737952
    >>Sherman Flight? Dresden Flight?

    Either of those would be absolutely superb.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)03:23 No.8738000
    Diablo Flight.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)03:35 No.8738145
         File1269329718.jpg-(776 KB, 1772x1179, 1268713926432.jpg)
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    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)04:19 No.8738537
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    We're pretty much near autosage, plus its looks like most of the interested viewers have gone to bed. I know I'm about to.

    I guess there will be a new thread in the morning.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)07:14 No.8739884
    I may be too late, but... how about rigging up the Aardvark as an ad-hoc RF-111 Sparkvark? Give it some heavy jammers and some HARM's and concentrate on knocking out any surface radars you spot. The CIWS can't shoot without radiating, though I'm not too sure if they can fire IR-guided missiles or guided missiles like the Sea Wolf while blind.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)07:14 No.8739887
    AAAH! Missed the briefing! Sorry guys, I over slept.

    Oh god. This one will get them killed.

    OK first of all Bout doesn't like competition, he is suspicious and wouldn't be around any more if he had not arranged himself with the US intel community somehow.

    Secondly: Going in with overkill and then stepping it up is the wrong approach here. This requires a more refined strategy that allows for anonymity and save extraction. Even if they'd manage to actually damage one of the ships enough to take it out, the attack on UN troops would bring everyone and his dog to the theater, and that cannot be in a mercenary's interest.

    One can assume that a UN flotilla will have sophisticated radar surveillance available, so paying for the AWACS just evens out the board a little. Therefore extraction routes must include decoy destinations and maybe some more airliner hugging.

    The best way to draw the UN ships away without causing another international incident is to give them something to do. Find an interesting target like a tanker (environmental threat) or a rich ship-owner (political connection) would be nice. Send in the Aardvark for a close supersonic flyby. After they reported the 'attack' jam all radio and keep strafing the ship without firing (for the radar). Disengage and bug out just before UN craft are in range.

    I think this would be the best way to distract them reliably and not cause any real collateral.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)07:20 No.8739918
         File1269343247.jpg-(1.63 MB, 2830x1910, EF-111A_Raven.jpg)
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    I'm an idiot- I mean the EF-111.

    Re-reading it, if you did go heavy on jammers you could set up away from the convoy, causing their radars to go down plus give them a fix on your position, which they would hopefully divert towards to get a clearer picture.

    Or the divert away to keep clear incase of hostiles, not to sure what SOP is if a warship get's MIJI'd.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)07:31 No.8739962
    If that doesn't draw enough ships and a second decoy is required I would jam radio before the first strafe. They'll have it on radar and they will be alert after the first decoy. And allowing both attacked ships to get out an SOS is too suspicious.

    Another way to direct the ships, albeit less effective and more expensive, might be to rig up a decoy anti ship missile without warhead, or even paint to replace it. Standard procedure to deal with missiles includes 3 things: Expel chaff, set course out of missile path, concentrate all AA on missile. This will only buy a few minutes, but maybe enough to get a threatened jet out of dodge quickly.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)07:49 No.8740073
    Just to make sure they know it's you I'd take some napalm. Makes for great cinematics. Just nape the ocean between two ships, smoke up their LOS, get a panic going.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)07:57 No.8740139
    I just remembered in a Clancy novel (I believe it was "The Bear and the Dragon") he mentions how airlifting enough ammunition for an army isn't really an option; it's too heavy per unit, and you need a LOT of units. A ship on the other hand doesn't have to worry about weight nearly as much (thanks to buoyancy). You can airlift small amounts of ammo of course, but if you're really bringing a lot of it a ship is FAR more efficient.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)07:58 No.8740144
    Just thought I'd point that out as a consideration for why the guy might be using a ship instead of his planes. It might not be a trap.

    But I'd still treat it as if it were.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)08:00 No.8740155
    We're a ways from autosage yet, buddy.
    >> Gaow? 03/23/10(Tue)08:01 No.8740160
    Yeah, sealift is vastly cheaper per-kilo then airlift. It's in theory possible to keep a military operation supplied by air, but it would be a big resource sink. Sending items overland or water is preferable if possible.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)08:02 No.8740169
    And if you're selling all that ammo, to impoverished nations/forces no less, you really don't want to be spending the premium on shipping costs.
    >> Gaow? 03/23/10(Tue)08:06 No.8740192
    It would cut into your bottom line to ship by air. Of course, so would having your ships stopped and impounded, or exploded.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)08:41 No.8740479
    f-4 to F-14D?
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)08:44 No.8740503
    The Lynx helicopters are used mostly in an anti submarine role, or as C&C with anti jamming equipment. They can have machine guns, rocket pods, or a TOW missile, nothing really dangerous for fighter jets. Some variants have excellent radar and FLIR, but I would assume that is aimed down against subs.

    The frigate has Goalkeepers which are quick enough to shoot down missiles. So 2000m around this ship is a guaranteed death zone for aircraft. The AA guns an reach out up to 18km, so watch out. They also carry large missiles, usually cruise missiles against surface targets, but they could be packing some serious AAM.

    The corvettes have Stingers, reaching out to 5000m, and the same AA cannon for 18km nuisance.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)08:48 No.8740544
    Leave it to Steve to put a Stinger on a helo.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)09:02 No.8740685
    Not sure about the Danish one, but the Dutch ship has Sea Sparrows and a 68mm cannon that can be used for AA in addition to the aforementioned Goalkeeper
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)09:05 No.8740719

    F-14B Bombcat, more ground attack than interceptor, but still capable of engaging aircraft.

    Also it should be cheaper, it's missing some of the fancy avionics of the SuperCat, plus the radar doesn't support all-weather terrain mapping. So, yeah...
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)09:13 No.8740821
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    I doubt that's worth it when compared to OPs upgraded Phantom, especially with the increase in price and most likely maintenance costs

    By the way, wasn't the D the first Cat with AtG capability?
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)09:43 No.8741135

    as long as he gets a F-14 with F110-400 engines+ a LANTIRN pod shit would be aweosme.

    arse kicking fighter and decent bomb truck ability with the ability to perform as awac? win.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)09:48 No.8741165
    Only Sparrows though, no AMRAAMS (for when OP can afford them/absolutely needs them), and Phoenix missiles will be expensive as fuck (not to mention the fact they weren't designed to deal with highly maneuverable fighters)
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)09:49 No.8741177
    The F/A-18 E/F does that just fine. No one flies the F-14 any more. It has an air of homosexuality and scientology about it.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)09:53 No.8741215

    rather short legs on the F-18
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)09:58 No.8741254
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    Thats why you want the Super Hornet.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)09:59 No.8741266
    Longer than the Phantom though...

    Still, it's probably way outside of OPs pricerange for the time being
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:01 No.8741286
    OP was already calculating how many more missions for a Super Hornet 4 threads back.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)10:04 No.8741317
    That is, if you're talking about the Super Bug ofcourse
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:05 No.8741327

    fark, thought the F-4 had more range than the superbug. ah well more you know.

    if OP goes for it, would it be worth shelling out for the plane to be wired up as a growler (i recall the RAAF is doing this) incase of the need for HARM strikes (something that OP seems to do a fair bit) and ECM dickery?
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)10:05 No.8741329
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    Ah, right, forgot about that :)
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:09 No.8741360
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    Yes, Growler setup sacrifices the gun but makes it a radar/radio airspace dominator.

    We suggested this 3 threads earlier.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:17 No.8741416
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    Flight name: Dead Rabbits. From wikipedia:

    "The Dead Rabbits were a gang in New York City in the 1850s originally part of the Roach Guards. The name has a second meaning rooted in Irish American vernacular of NYC in 1857. The word "Rabbit" is the phonetic corruption of the Irish word ráibéad, meaning "man to be feared". "Dead" was a slang intensifier meaning "very".[1] Thus, a "Dead Ráibéad" means a man to be greatly feared. The gang was sometimes also known as the Black Birds."

    Sound fitting yet? Included a logo, even.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)10:18 No.8741424
    Super Bug is pretty close in weapons load as well, only 900 pounds less than the Phantom

    And the Growler idea is definitely something to look into...
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:25 No.8741482
    ... and just how many tiers above the F4 is super hornet when it comes to price categories?
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)10:30 No.8741522
    Eh, forgot this part:

    Only thing I personally wouldn't like about the Growler is that if you go with a full jamming loadout, you only have 2 HARMs and 2 AMRAAMs in terms of weapons...
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)10:31 No.8741529
    I don't think OP ever posted a price list, but that's something I was wondering as well
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:32 No.8741536
    Well, one is a frivolous concept from the 70s that remains in service only as a budget jet in minor militaries. The other is a state of the art multi role weapons platform being bought by the US Navy right now.

    So the difference would be the cost of a top jet minus the price of scrap metal it would give you.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)10:36 No.8741567
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    He's using one of the upgraded Israeli F-4s, with a few additions, so its not like his current fighter is totally worthless/outdated.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:36 No.8741571
    Relevant threats:

    The Frigate:
    Oto Melara 76 mm anti-air/anti-surface gun
    Oerlikon 20 mm light cannon
    Sea Sparrow SAM VLS
    Goalkeeper (point defence gun)

    The Corvettes:
    Sea Sparrow SAM VLS
    Stinger SAM
    Oto Melara 76 mm gun

    Ummm, yeah. No way in hell should you go for the forceful approach. Try to set up a covert distraction. If that doesn't work, bug them at extreme range with targetting radar and jamming. If that doesn't work, just get the hell out and screw the job. Starting a war with the UN is abso-fucking-lutely not worth it.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:36 No.8741572
    11 hardpoints
    2 used by ECM if equipped
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:39 No.8741587
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    fuel and a few other gizmos take up a fair few of the hardpoints if you take the entire ECM suite
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:39 No.8741594
    Has the multiple non-lethal flybys option been discarded as not certain enough?
    'Cos it sounded like the best way not to die to me.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:43 No.8741622
    The CFTs for the Super Hornet have hardpoints on them. 2 hardpoints mounts FULL ECM and targetting suite, the rest is where the internal gun used to be.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:44 No.8741627
    No, the tacticians just went to bed.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:44 No.8741631

    would it be possible to down a lynx with out being detected? that would create a massive SAR attempt by the ships, allowing our questionable employer to do his job.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:45 No.8741639
    This thread keeps me up until so late that by the time I wake up again, everyone else has gone to bed.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)10:48 No.8741661

    That is asuming they're even airborne during the mission, though that is a likely situations, given the search for a smuggling ship.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)10:51 No.8741687
    You can assume that the UN has a firm grip on the airspace with 3 ships in the area. Any fire at a Lynx, even at long range, would certainly be detected and be the cause of massive operatiions to intercept the shooter. Better pick a target that's a little further out of their range.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)10:51 No.8741695
    11 hardpoints:
    2x wingtips, 6x under wing, 3x fuselage

    Wingtips taken up by AN/ALQ-218 detection pods,
    inboard wing pylons for drop tanks,
    mid-board pylons for AN/ALQ-99 High Band Jamming Pods,
    outboard pylons for HARMs;
    2 multi-mode conformal fuselage stations for AMRAAMs,
    1 centerline fuselage removable hardpoint, for AN/ALQ-99 Low Band Jamming Pod;

    Gun space taken up by more electronics
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)11:00 No.8741780
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    Now, let's have a little thought at what "unexpected" air assets, namely fighters looking for OP's squadron's scalps exclusively, could be in the area? The ships are danish and dutch, but since it's the UN, they might as well be under overwatch from the Mongolian Air Forces. If there is such a thing.

    And the Avenger and the HMMVW's make me think of US intervention forces in the area, which could mean a rude awakening for the PC's.

    One common denominator I see is that all three forces fly F-16's, Dutch and Danish forces using it as their mainstay. How badly would the merc squadron get their shit wrecked by a squadron of F-16's?
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)11:06 No.8741823
    Depends on the number of F-16s I suppose...

    Also, that AWACS support will definitely come in handy in helping detect enemy flyers

    I suggest OP gets as much intel as possible, so the gang knows what they can expect (UN airfields, carrier groups etc.), and even then Steve will probably throw them a curveball or two
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)11:16 No.8741888
    I would have the tanker fly an inconspicuous route with regular traffic close by, timed so that it is in the area near the fighter's estimated bingo fuel. That way they can save the tank mounts and refuel before RTB.

    The important parameter for this mission is the alert state of the fleet. Keep them busy but don't make them launch Sparrows. They must believe they are in a tactical scenario that requires their attention elsewhere, but doesn't make them trace and hunt aircraft. Their radar record will be evidence. Best if it is credited to pirates, revolutionaries, terrorists, UFOs, pteranodon resurrect, or Superman.

    Great if you need to fly for 10 hours without refuel. Bulky in an air to air engagement.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)11:17 No.8741898
    Okay, just checked the plane stats.
    The F16s have OP (and presumably the other Phantom-driver as well) beat in terms of maneuverability and depending on model they can equal him on radar.
    They have the Viggen beat on radar.
    F-111 is obviously not an air-to-air craft.
    So that leaves the Flanker.

    Also, the Vipers will have a loadout of Sidewinders and AMRAAMs, so their missiles will most likely rival those of the mercs (Flanker could get them from a longer range, but that's it, OP and other Phantom-driver have never used AMRAAMs before due to cost, so will most likely carry (earlier model) Sidewinders and Sparrows...)
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)11:19 No.8741918

    And even without the droptanks, the ECM loadout alone will probably make it more sluggish than a standard Super Bug
    >> Skyhawk !c6DO1M4BMw 03/23/10(Tue)11:22 No.8741951

    This is why OP needs to buy more intel. I really doubt the warships are going to have fighters flying CAP for them unless there's a carrier out there some where that we don't know about(unlikely since its UN so we'd probably know). This UN involvement does make those HMMVs in the last mission a bit more believable. They might have been there as part of an ongoing UN mission and just gotten pulled in at the last minute to help recapture the Moroccan prince. If those were UN then you've already gotten their attention. And this arms dealer suddenly asks for you personally...a man who HAS to have connections with governments to be able to be so successful. I too smell a trap. Which is why we'll need to avoid contact with the warships themselves as much as possible.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)11:26 No.8741981
    >They must believe they are in a tactical scenario that requires their attention elsewhere, but doesn't make them trace and hunt aircraft.

    The one advantage here is that it are UN forces. The OP should ask Steve, but afaik, they're more than likely to operate under ROE that forbid them to shoot first. So, the trick is going to be to ping them with tracking and targetting radar as well as ECM from as far away as possible to get them concentrating on those jesters playing games in the electronic spectrum out there.

    That, or fabricating some other kind of distraction. Getting into a shooting war with UN forces is definitely not worth whatever Mr. Bout is going to pay for this.
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)11:31 No.8742051
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    Another bit of thought I've had regarding the Bout angle is that maybe he's using "overkill" on purpose.

    Afterall, what arms dealer would be crazy enough to hire jets to blow up UN naval assets? Surely it was just a coincidental terrorist attack on an obvious target. Nothing to do with Mr. "Merchant of Death" at all...

    Or it could be a setup, I'm still leaning towards that.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)11:34 No.8742072
    Oh shit, guys...

    What if there's a US carrier group lurking around?
    >> Air Action Weekly 03/23/10(Tue)11:34 No.8742083
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    And we're at autosage.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)11:35 No.8742095
    I'm in agreement with this anon. Diverting the UN forces with some unarmed strafes on civilian ships and radar cat-and-mouse would be the optimal choice. It's going to be a rather white-knuckled flight though, revealing yourself to ships with some considerable AA capacity in anticipation of air support that may never come, solely on the hope that they divert.

    Perhaps they could stage a hijack by close proximity fly-by's on a civilian ship and then demands for the ship to stand down and await boarding, in hopes of suckering the UN ships out. Fat chance they'll buy a story of rubber raft pirates suddenly upgrading to jet fighters though...
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)11:36 No.8742104
    Negotiate another alternate, maybe in Cameroon. Just a place with radar-defying terrain where nobody would expect you. Don't use the usual channels.

    Have somebody you can trust/buy rig a boat with a timed explosive and send it out uncrewed to blow within sight of witnesses but away from the smuggler boats the night before. Then leak intel about an imminent rebel operation with boats. This will give your jamming and radar acquisitions context.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)11:37 No.8742112
    New thread?
    Ride this one out?
    Wait for OP to return and start a new thread?
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)11:39 No.8742134
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)11:40 No.8742138
    Okidoki :)

    Btw, did OP mention when the next mission will take place?
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)11:50 No.8742244
    If he did, I missed it. And there's a lot of questions that require OP's presence to answer, too. But I enjoy speculating even without him.
    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)12:00 No.8742318
    Same here
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:04 No.8742345
    "Hire local goons to start shit" is sounding better and better.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:05 No.8742348
    >Starting a war with the UN is abso-fucking-lutely not worth it

    I don't think op is worried about a strongly worded letter.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:06 No.8742355
    You know, now that the subject of F-16's came up, wouldn't they actually be a fairly decent upgrade choice as well? Especially since it seems to be a dogfighter, which is a role I feel to be a little under-represented in the squadron since I feel other planes might be the biggest threat imaginable. Although I tend to think that it might also be prudent to ride out the Phantom to what it's worth.

    It is a bit of a sentimental idea, though.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:06 No.8742357

    I'm thinking OP is more worried about SAMs in overkill numbers from multiple platforms with defenses the PCs cannot reliably saturate.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:10 No.8742382
    It's a light fighter that needs a lot of support. The mercenaries seem to be going better with more versatile craft that can load a little more ordnance and fuel without sacrificing all maneuverability.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:17 No.8742431
    >Implying a Phantom can turn.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:17 No.8742445
    Dear god no, please, keep implications away from plane threads. They can only bring damnation.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:20 No.8742462
    No, once they are launched they have to keep flying straight around the world and be refueled in air because they can never line up again with a runway.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:25 No.8742541
    That's not far from the truth.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:30 No.8742593
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    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:32 No.8742621
    Oh, nonsense. They hit the air brakes, and the pilot opens the canopy and blows really hard until the plane's reversed back to the field.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:36 No.8742660
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    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)12:40 No.8742716
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    >> Fligh/tg/uy 03/23/10(Tue)14:02 No.8743645
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    >> Anonymous 03/23/10(Tue)14:22 No.8743866
    Does anyone know the effective ranges of ECM against radio and radar. I suppose it would vary from system to system.

    Can a little jet even squawk out enough noise to interfere with a giant ship dish? I guess it could turn a swarm of blips into a giant blob, but they'd still get a location.

    And what is the effective range of the squad's radar systems? Tracking ships can't be too hard, but helos? How would the projected updates affect that?

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