I've been thinking about running Paragons but I'm in kind of a hard place. It's hard to find what M&M can do with all the gritty options turned on that GURPS can't do out of the box. I really want to do something like Heroes.

I'll back you up. It's not my favorite system, but I like it a lot.

If the GM wants the game to be balanced, he's got to keep a close eye on character creation... but honestly, sometimes that's better than trying to enforce balance with tons of restrictive rules.

M&M is good times.

>You want to be an elf that isn't gay? Good luck finding a setting that it works in, but if you can, NO PROBLEM!

I lol'd.

Honestly, there are 2 types of gamers, "Hardcore" gamers who play to min max the hell out of their characters and be the best in the group, and "Casual" Who just want to sit down, and have fun. Not that it isn't possible to belong to both groups.

From my experience, most of the MinMaxing Hardcore gamers dislike the system because of the balance issues, but the casuals LOVE it. I think that is more of the reason it gets a bad rap then anything else.

People that bother min/maxing shouldn't be playing Pen and Paper games anyways.

It is good, but it's one of those games like GURPS where the GM has to watch every step of character creation and be clear about what is or is not cool.

Too easy to make a character that can do anything at all ever just by taking alternate power a bunch of times.

No reason ever to take a sub-optimal saving throw, except for toughness since you can trade that off against defence. Needs more incentive to diversify in basic combat capabilities.

>>7690540
Just do a low level paragon's system.

Start them out at PL 1, with the option that they can't take any powers. (this is esentially thier base character, them as "human")

Then have them fighting before they ever even discover their powers, witht he powers kicking in mid fight.

This would tend to lead to players getting whatever would help them at that moment, not in the long run. Which really keeps in theme with heroes. (Hiro getting on a bus thats running late, Claire dying in a fire when she was a baby, Adam getting shot with an arrow, Nathan flying from a car crash, etc. )

Could work out pretty well if you keep it below PL5. After that it becomes comic book supers, not Real Life with superpowers.

Not trying to start an edition wars or system wars. Didnt GURPS do this already?

>Warriors & Warlocks
>Rifts system
OH SWEET!

I may have to do that. Anyone got a link to W&W? (I already have the other 2)

>>7690612
>Too easy to make a character that can do anything at all ever just by taking alternate power a bunch of times.
Too much eggs in one basic, anyone who nulls any of those powers nulls the rest.

>>7690645
Honestly, I never used GURPS. But it sounds like it is simaler.

I personally really enjoy d20. But I will have to look into GURPS.

>>7690551
>MinMaxing Hardcore gamers dislike the system because of the balance issues

A powergamer tries to find loopholes and interactions in the rules that allow him to create a character of above-average power. A good deal of the pleasure comes from the cleverness required to outsmart the system.

But in M&M... there's no cleverness required to make a broken character. You can just do it. If you want to take a retarded combination of powers and feats that make you nigh-invencible, the game doesn't even try to stop you. But... that's not fun. It's more fun to start with a character idea and pick abilities that represent that idea mechanically. It's more fun to be about as powerful as the rest of the players.

>>7690651
Agreed.

Speaking of which, can devices have alternate powers stored in them? Also can devices themselves have alternate powers?

>>7690692
>M&M can cure munchkins.

Well, looks like I'm going to have to run this with my group.

>>7690647

http://www.mediafire.com/file/jetm3ndtmzi/M&M - GRR2525 - Warriors And Warlocks.pdf

>>7690712
A power cant have the same power as an alternate power.

The powers the device stores however, can have alternate powers.

>>7690766
Fuck yes. Thank you, DLing now.

A Rifts game in this would be awesome.

CONAN VS BATMAN VS ASH KATCHUM!

>>7690797

fcuk year conan

>>7690772
Um, a power can have the same power as an alternate power. Because powers themselves can be customized, and you may have the same BASE power as both of them, but with different stuff.

One of the examples it gave was Blast with the Fire Descriptor, with an alternate power of Blast with the Ice descriptor.

Or, you can do a little bit of minmaxing (Which is easy enough to explain in character) and give yourself a power with a flaw, then the same power with a different flaw as an alternate. Either way the power is flaw'd, but every time you use it, you can choose the flaw.

One of my old Mecha and Manga characters had a power with the Conduit flaw (Had to channel it through a gauntlet which was a device of his) or he could use it WITHOUT the Conduit flaw, but it was far weaker.

>>7690738

It CAN cure them. I wouldn't say it necessarily WILL cure them.

I like to powergame a bit, and it took me a while to figure out that you just don't do that in M&M. I got better, but another guy in our group didn't. The adjustment caused some problems.

>>7690712

>devices with alternate powers

Sure. "Set phasers to stun/kill/saute" is perfectly viable. A device can do several different things.

>Device as an alternate power

This requires some in-game explaining, but it could work. Perhaps you've got a magic-user with the Orb of Zot, a device, as an alternate power of your general "magic!!!" power. In this case, you explain that the device is powered by you channeling your magical energies into it; if you're using your magic to do something else, the device is nonfunctional. You would have to buy the extra where only certain people can use the device, though, since only magic users could activate it.


Pic only related in that M&M is the only system I know where you could make and play that guy.

>>7690846
OH GOD ITS LIKE A GRIM DARK SUPER SMASH BROTHERS!

>>7690870
FUCK YES!

THIS IS THE BEST SETTING EVER!

I REALLY do not like the 2nd edition of M&M. The powers seem a lot less... anything. I mean, Weather Control power is just a package that lets you cheaply buy other powers, like Blast and stuff. It barely says a thing about, y'know, controlling the weather.

>>7690870
>implying thats a bad thing.

>>7690908
Not at all.

That shit would be awesome.

IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE MASTERHANDS TOYBOX THERE IS ONLY WAR.

an someone link Mecha and manga? I've been trying to find that book for a while.

Well, its an ok system, but it has its up and dow-
>You want to be an elf that isn't gay?
OH your'e a troll, nevermind then.

>>7690963
Googled Mecha and Manga download. 4th result.
http://www.4shared.com/file/130629523/3174bd94/Mecha_and_Manga.html

>>7690981
Boss, thanks much.

>>7690963

http://www.mediafire.com/file/wmow1uootoy/GRR2524e_MechaAndManga.pdf

There is no reason to play this system.

If you don't know how it works you will only be frustrated with broken pieces of shit that the players can accidentally stumble upon.

If you know how it works you're banning things left and right to protect the illusion of balance leading to generic characters who are only described differently, and as knowing more then the developers did you can dump this piece of shit and make your own better system.

If you know the system and choose to leave it as is you are playing something next to freeform.

>>7690889
That because actually controlling weather is made up of so many different factors that is isn't worth listing.

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3956532/Mutants_and_Masterminds_collection
And a torrent of all the other books.

Has everything except W&W and Mecha and Manga, both of which have already been linked in the thread.

>>7691068
>If you know the system and choose to leave it as is you are playing something next to freeform.
Gasp!

We couldn't have that!

RPG's have been trying to stay as far away from that as possible!

>>7691099
Well yes actually. If you pay for a system you don't want to have dropped money or wasted time in /tg/s case reading something you are going to completely ignore.

We once had a low level campaign where each player started at PL 5 but the more surges (Using the masterminds manual) you had, the more you learned to control your powers, and after X amount of surges, we would all go up a few levels.

I started out as a guy who could absorb and redirect attacks, but as a leveled i slowly lowered my constitution. The first time i did it, i realized i didn't need any con because of my powers, so just lowered it to redistribute the points.

I decided that my powers drained my characters life, so by the time we hit PL 20, i had No con score, and survived only by draining the life force of others.

I could also drain all of their powers, and give them to my self (10 points a rank transfer. a bitch to buy, but useful as hell. especially with a slow fade to the point that it takes 10 years to get a single point back.)

This was one of the weaker support characters.

That game was awesome.

>>7691068
>>7691154

samefag troll butthurt that his GM laid the smack down on his minmaxing character.

>>7691099
So... why then do you need hundreds of pages of detailed power rules, array structures, skills etc. when it basically comes down to freeform? They're all basically pointless without extreme intervention as your character's abilities are only tangientally related to their level and come 99% from power choice.

>>7691171
> Intentionally LOWERING a stat each level.
That is awesome. And the only reason to do that is if your actually role playing. If you were a minmaxer you would have done it all at once.

Thats pretty cool.

Although, fuck, 10 point transfer with slow fade.

Your right. That would be a bitch to by. But it would be like using boost and drain at the same time, with the added affect of mimic.

>>7691180
Not thatfag, but thanks to the rules some archetypes are inherently 'maxed' and you can't create a balanced one. Doctor Corrosion. The Human Leech and his amazing Con Drain. Flashback, The Turnabout Teleport Man.

I found herolab the other day. Its great for making WoD and M&M characters, but i cant find a pirated version for it.

Anyone know where I can get one?

M&M sucks! Silver Age Sentinels is superior!

Actually I don't care at all, it's just that an anti-edition war thread requires a system war.

>>7691268

I've never seen a cracked version, ever.

>>7691268
Ive seen that, but never got around to downloading it. Is it any good?
>>7691288
fair enough.

>>7690684
I would say GURPS is just slightly less cartoonish and tries to be more realstic. You can make nearly everything in GURPS it just requires some figuring out.

Take max levels in Gadget.

Use anti-everything spray to kill everything.

>>7691339
I'm downloading it now actually. And reading a bit about it online.

They sound vastly different in mechanics, while being very similar in customization. At least form what I can tell.

>>7691369
I once made Batmans utility belt.

It was basically a Device, with an alternate power of Gadget.

Not QUITE that useful. But helped out a lot.

>>7691369
What's worst is you don't even have to be a twink to think of shit like that. Just decide to play a character who uses gadgets (like, ah, Batman) and then do the sensible thing in every encounter. Oops, campaign broke. Well, I'll know to tippex that power out of the book for next time. Repeat ad nauseam.

>>7691069
..except in 1e where Weather Control just gives you the ability to change the weather...

>>7691441
You know what'd be cool? A street punk who animates graffiti.
Oh god these animated objects are overpowered and slow the game to a crawl. Tippex.
You know what'd be cool? Rather than having a super, having Nick Fury and a SHIELD team of minions, but since multiple followers slow things down I'll have them all use Teamwork.
Oh god autofire and Teamwork is overpowered. Tippex.

You can produce a wide variety of Devices (see the Device power)
essentially at will. As with Device, Gadgets gives you 5 power points
per rank to create these items, and you can split your points among
multiple Devices, if desired. Changing your Gadget points around
is a standard action and lasts until you choose to change them
again. (The Gadgets power has a continuous duration, although
the powers of the individual Devices themselves may have different
durations.)
Your gadgets function in all ways like normal Devices (see
Devices & Equipment, M&M, page 128, for details).
The cost of Gadgets depends on how easily they can be taken
away from you. If your gadgets are easy to lose (can be taken away
with a successful disarm) then the power is 6 points per rank. If
they’re hard to lose (can only be taken away from you while you’re
helpless), the power is 7 points per rank. If you cannot lose your
gadgets at all (they are an integral part of you in some way), then
you actually have a different sort of Variable structure power, pos-
sibly Shapeshift (allowing you to transform parts of yourself into
different technological devices, for example).


tl;dr

Gadget is the same as the device power, it just cost's more and is weaker, but you can move them around.

It is NOWHERE near as overpowered as Battle form with a slow fade, were you are given DOUBLE your PLs power points to spend.

>>7691532
If everything is overpowered, then nothing is overpowered.

>>7691544
Well, the Battle form power gives you the same number of powerpoints, but those ability's stack with the regular ones.

>>7691441
>and then do the sensible thing in every encounter
Players are never allowed to be sensible. Every single game requires players to avoid acting like normal people, to having any sense because then it'd be session upon session of running away and trying to find a safe place.

>>7691574
I think that was his point.

Even if something is horribly overpowered, everyone you using it against is even more over powered.

For example, imagine if you were in a pokemon setting.

Pikachu, would pretty much be able to kill any human in one attack. Thats overpowered as hell. But it wont be fighting humans will it?

Same here. Yeah you have a device that instantly wins every battle.

Too bad the enemy does too. and they go first.

>>7691525
"Just" controlling the weather eh?

So you could lighting bolt peoples asses, freeze the air around them. cover everything with fog, drown them with a flood, or make everything melt with a heatwave.

It seems a benign enough concept, but holy hell if it shouldn't be broken up into it's sub-powers.

>>7691624
So... its Exalted?

>>7691574
"It's balanced because it's all broken."
That was Privateer Press' unofficial motto for a long time, and we all know how that turned out.
(For those who don't, it led to a universal reset.)

>>7691650
No, if you wanted that, you got the Bolt power, the Aura power, the... I dunno what power that would be.

You're controlling the weather, y'know, the shit in the sky.

>>7691624
And enemies have Villain Points, which are like Hero Points, on steroids.

>>7691657
Pretty much, it goes from "This guy is so powerful, he can destroy the entire planet" to "This guy is so weak, he can only destroy a single planet"

If your character ISN'T overpowered, your doing it wrong.

I am actually running a M&M-rules RIFTS campaign. Has an anime flavor to it.

I have found that M&M has a pretty steep learning curve to it, but once you get to know it, it is an excellent system. Magic is a little funny - you have to build dynamic arrays for them- but once you figure them out, you are good to go.

>>7691441
Well, there's your problem. Batman doesn't have Gadgets, he has Equipment and Devices.

Gadgets is for stuff like being able to change your body into different tools (ala Forge from X-Men).

As for whether the system is broken, the entire concept is laughable. Broken implies that the character in the game ruins any challenge or enjoyment. When the enemy of the campaign could in fact be Satan himself, and entire sessions could revolve around roleplaying the increasing distance the characters feel from regular people (both emotionally and physically), there isn't a build that can overcome these challenges or detracts from the fun.

However, I can understand if Mutants & Masterminds is not your bag.

>>7691721
Oh god those were awesome.

Spending a hero point lets you do something awesome. Like altering the laws of physics.

Spending a villain point lets you do something awesome. Like altering the laws of physics. After spending one, you get 2 more.

>>7691705
Oh, that shit, it's under a different power now and they told you to look it up.

Please, Gestalt + Battle form + Duplication overpowered everything.

>>7691753
However if you got a number of villain point equal to your power level. You died. Or the GM took your'e character and made you the new BBEG... or his dragon.

And the only way to get rid of them was to spend a hero point.

>>7691793
Huh? When I looked at the 2e book, it just listed OTHER powers that you got cheaper for buying Weather Control. It didn't actually let you control the weather like 1e.

>>7691813
Make a mecha.
Give it the Gestalt power.
Take Minion rank 5.
?????
GO GO POWER RANGERS!

>>7691846
FUCK YES!

Im going to do that.

Not sure if my GM will let me though...

link to mecha n manga/Warrior n warlocks plz?

>>7691867
The only problem i could see with it is the size of the mech(s)

If so, use a Medium sized Mobile Suit with the gesalt ability. Each indivdual piece is a Device.

So basically, You have 5 devices, which you can combine into an Ironman style suit.

Take the pet or minion feat and ask if you can have the feat affect the devices instead. That way you can control them from a distance.

MICRO RANGER!

>>7691884
read the thread. they are already posted.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/wmow1uootoy/GRR2524e_MechaAndManga.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/file/jetm3ndtmzi/M&M - GRR2525 - Warriors And Warlocks.pdf

>>7691842

There's two Weather Controls. One is an Array. One is Environmental Control, and is the most common power in said Array.

>>7691908
Not the same, but an awesome enough substitute.

I play the Scarab. He uses a suit of nanotech armor (a Device, obviously) with a bunch of insect-related powers built into it. I play him as Spider-Man mixed with Tony Stark.

>>7692024
Wouldn't that be a construct? not a device?

Or does he just have a battle suit with those powers?

>>7692064
A battle-suit.

>Demigod Adventure
Oh god... W&W added BeardBeard.

Seriously... look at the fucking picture of it.

...So Arrays are basically just ways to encourage you to play Archetypes.

Fuck yeah, Mutants and Masterminds.

>>7692123
No arrays are ways to encourage min maxing and save hunting.

From a roleplaying game standpoint, M&M is broken as fuck. However, I still say it's one of the best games available for actually simulating the genre it's meant to represent.

>>7692123
Arrays are a cheap way to play a character with a wide variety of powers. It makes the jack of all trades possible and effective. But there's a tradeoff to it. For example, playing a wizard, you could have your minion summoning as part of your magic array, but you can't make use of magic while you're summoning minions.

>>7690692
a typical "casual" character character sheet
-well written bio
-an actual history that explains reasoning behind the stats/powers/abilities/levels
-usually some decent character art, sometimes even taken from deviant art or drawn by a local drawfag
-equipment to match history/artwork

min/max
-stats
-at best a (usually first person) exclamation of desires the character wants to do, if any context at all
-... thats about it

"casual" players is an incorrect term, the proper word is "creative"

>>7692418
Ohh, thats an interesting character concept. Cool.

>>7692434
see in the beginning the "rules" where there to tell us what to roll to do what we wanted to do....
but now the "rules" are the rolls we have to do what we cant do

One step ahead of you, my and a friend are doing this: She has her team of 4 players that normaly play nWoD, there going to make the bad guys

I have my 4 players that normaly play D&D, there makeing the hero's

the goal of each team is to kill the other team!

>>7691403

OP you wanna chat up, I would like more info (this is the same anon who pointed torwards gurps) My AIM name is Lich Fredrick and my yahoo is paulmyfriend. Give me a poke sometime

>>7692418

Unless, of course, you are using a dynamic array. Then, when you pay 2 points per alternate power, but can use multiplepowers of the array at once.

I was running a Digimon style campaign about a month ago.

My Mon was EXTREMELY week. it could do virtually nothing. Instead, I put all my ability's in my characters device. It was basically a laptop that could alter the "Stats" of my Mon.

The only "Real" power my mon had was Rank 7 Stage 2 Battle Form, the Conduit Flaw, and a Slow Fade that made it last a week. The Conduit was my characters laptop.

So everytime he was near my player, he instantly became twice as powerful, and became the party's tank, with the exeption that he had to spend an hour a week "Rebooting" and once a day (roughly) he could be Overclocked to KILL FUCKING EVERYTHING, for seven rounds.

Then the GM seperated us.

>>7692575
Dynamic arrays are new to me. Where can I find them?

>>7692606
Fuck dude. That must of sucked.

>>7692621
Ultimate Power. Its in the torrent posted earlier.

>>7692606
Fucking deserved it.

Minmaxing faggot.

>>7692743
Well My characters laptop was able to buff any of our Mons, and Debuff the enemy's, So it basically just changed me to support. Put it really put a damper in our group. The DM did it because pretty much everyone else would get another Mon, but knew damn well that we couldn't just give mine up.

>>7692781
Not really. I was a support character, and my Mon was pretty weak if it wasn't near by. The GM was the one who SUGGESTED the basic concept.

"You guys need an Izzy like character, you know the brainiac who is always just sitting there, but knows every enemy's weak point."

>>7692575
Dynamic arrays aren't making a lick of goddamn sense.

>>7692912
Sounds like you GM wanted that character to railroad you.

>>7692434
Creative? More like derivative, at best.

>>7693183
Oh wait, now it makes sense. If I have a dynamic array of 20 points and 3 dynamic powers in it, if I wanted to allocation 10 points of the array to one 6 points to another and 4 to the final one, I could. Correct?

>>7693203
Beats the pants off a pile of numbers with a name.

>>7693183
M&M has a steep learning curve.

Ultimate power has a steeper one. But once you understand it, you can create your own powers, use powers in place of skills, and feats in place of powers.

You can create powers that use feats.
The alread vast options become even more limitless.

>>7693264
Does it by chance have guidelines for explaining when a device stops being a device and becomes equipment?

>>7693232
Affirmative. it is a neat way of divying up points. Good for little things like spells. do up a big pool- I am running a char with a 40 point dynamic array- and then you pay 2 points for each alternate power, all of which can be up to 40 points themselves. But you dont always need that many points, so you end up with a bunch of spells that arent anywhere near 40 points, so you can use them at the same time. And more than that, you can actually take a 40 point power and use less than 40 points worth of the power. which gives you points to play with for more spells to cast.

>>7693232
kinda. you can freely move those points between those powers, and they can used together. It can stll have normal alternate powers in the same array, that can't be used together.

Lets say you had a dynamic array of blast and dazzle for 10 points.
You could:
Use a ten point blast attack.
Use a ten point dazzle attack.
Use a five point dazzle with a five point blast.
Use a thre point dazzle with a seven point blast.
etc.

>>7693285
I've always ruled that once a certain Device becomes common enough to be purchased by (relatively) normal people, then its become Equipment.

That Plasma Rifle which is a Device in that steampunk game is Equipment in a sci-fi game.

Is anyone here familiar with the DC Heroes system?

>>7693335
So how does one asses the point cost of equipment then?

>>7693335
Thats basically what it says in the book. For example, a rank 1 communication devise, is basically just a phone. so its equipment.
A device that has a few ranks in strike is a sword, so its equipment.

A sword that has ranks in strike and drain however, would be a device.

Here is an example of a dynamic array using the magic rules from Sword & Sorcery. it is from a character I am currently running in an S&S campaign.

Power:
- Sorcery Dynamic Array:
Sorcery = 1 character pt per 2 ranks (W&W,22); 2 power points per power rank, save Vs Will DC (10+power rank used) or become fatigued each time you use sorcery. Sorcery: 2 ranks per char pt, so Rank 10 = 5pts
-Extra: Physically demanding (W&W, p 23): Use Fort instead of Will for save Vs fatigue. (0)
- Extra: Affects Insubstantial (ALL my spells now affect insubstantial, since I bought it as part of the initial power affecting the entire array. I got this suggestion from the Book of Magic) (5)
- Drawback: Somatic component (must be able to use hands): (-5)
-Power feat: Subtle 1 (undetectable except on DC 20 notice/ Kn: Arcana) (1)
-Drawback: Limited (Only for somatic components) (-1)
(Essentially, he uses his hands to manipulate the magic energy, but nobody realizes what he is doing until the spell goes off- and even then, they won’t notice if the spell is subtle as well. Know: Arcana won’t help people notice he is casting, because all he needs as a warlock is a flick of the wrist, not some complex ritualistic gesture. Think Obi- Wan’s “You don’t need to see his identification” gesture.)
-Limitation: Full Round Action to cast all spells. (-5) (1/2 cost, so 4 ranks per char pt)
Total cost: 5 points for 20 ranks
20 ranks= 40 power points per spell, each spell after the primary spell to be an alternate power costing 2 points. As a dynamic array, duration is as per normal power unless modified.

>>7693443
(Cont'd)

Primary Spell:
- Tongue of the Serpent: Emotion Control 5 (10), Subtle 2 (undetectable) (2), Sense Dependent (Targets Hearing) (-4), Duration: Continual (15), Contagious 5 (5), Benefit 3: Powerful, beautiful, awe-inspiring Voice (3), selective (5), precise (1); total 37 points. Fort Check 8.
Alternate Powers (Other Spells):
- Heal: Heal 5 (10), Total (5), Resurrection (5) (can resurrect someone if they have been dead less than (power rank) minutes), Persistent (1), Regrowth (1), Progression: 8 (Can resurrect anyone who has died within the last year) (8), Nullify 5 (Disease, 2/rank) (10); total 40 pts. Fort check 5.
- The Burning Death (Hellfire consumes the targets from within): Blast 5 (10), Link (free), Nauseate (pain) 5 (10), Duration: concentration (5) Area: Shapeable (5), Progression (area) 4 (twenty-five 5’ cubes/rank, for 625 CuFt) (1), Indirect 1 (1), Limited (useless against the pure of heart, or that which has no soul [undead still have a fragment of it so are affected; normal matter and golems would not be affected, nor would plants- though a treant could]) (-2), Penetrating 2 (2); total 40 pts. Fort Check 10.
- Cloak of Obscurity: Obscure 2 (total) (10’ Radius): All sense types (4/rank) (8), Duration: Sustained (4), Selective (2), Subtle 2 (2); Super sense: See My Obscured objects (2), extra: Selective (2), Area Affect (burst) (2), Progression 1 (1) : total cost 20 pts. Fort Check 2

>>7693363
Its ussually just played by ear.

I usually just make an easy to lose devise, minus the number of unspent device points to figure it out.

>>7693470
With a minimum of one point of course.

My GM is going to be running a Rifts style game (We aren't using W&W)

I'm thinkin about making a character that basically has a few different pieces of armor, like a gauntlet that shoots flames, a breastplate that absorbs attacks, etc.

When he weres all of them, he can link them all together, losing their regular abilitys, but creating a battlesuit that has all new ability's.

Each piece is from a different reality.
My idea was basically transdimensional rare item hunter, that combines the stuff he finds into one.

What do you guys think.

>>7693652

Hm. I suppose you could build the armor as a single power array, with a power loss if any one peice of it is missing.

>>7693652
Apperently a lot of people run RIFTS in M&M. It makes sense, i'm just wondering why i never thought of it.

Anyway, give each part a different power source. Then give the full suit power forms, dynamic arrays, all kinds of over powered shit.

However throw in the powerloss drawback. If any one piece of the suit would lose its power source (magic part in an anti magic area, demonic part in a church, organic part dies, etc) then the entire suit stops working.

How's this for a character?

Class

Power Level: 10; Power Points Spent: 150/150

STR: +0 (11), DEX: +1 (12), CON: -1 (9), INT: +1 (12), WIS: +3 (16), CHA: +2 (14)

Tough: -1, Fort: -1, Ref: +1, Will: +5

Skills: Craft (expressive) 5 (+6)

Feats: Beginner's Luck

Powers:
Alternate Form 20 (One-Way Transformation 3)
Battle Form 10 (Limited (Can only take certain forms depending on what alternate form he has), Tiring; Slow Fade 4 (1 hour))

Power Settings:
Barbarian (Alternate Form) (Powers: Axe (Device 3), Protection 5, Attack Bonus +11 (+11), Defense Bonus +5 (+5), Fortitude +4 (+3), Constitution +12 (21, +5), Strength +12 (23, +6), Survival +13 (+16), Ride +3 (+4), Feats: All-Out Attack, Crushing Pin, Improved Critical (Axe (Device 3)) 4, Move-by Action, Rage 4 (+2 Increased Duration x5 rounds), Swift 2, Tiger Leap, Uncanny Dodge (Hearing))

Bard (Alternate Form) (Powers: Magic 13, Charisma +8 (22, +6), Perform (stringed instruments) +18 (+20), Diplomacy +14 (+16), Bluff +16 (+18), Attack Bonus +6 (+6), Defense Bonus +6 (+6), Concentration +8 (+11), Gather Information +12 (+14), Feats: Attractive 4, Beautiful Voice (Perform (stringed instruments)) 3, Distracting Looks 2, Fake Expert (Bluff, Diplomacy, Perform) 3, Fascinate (Diplomacy), Fascinate (Perform), Inspire 5, Leadership, Rousing Speech)

>>7693812

Cleric (Alternate Form) (Powers: Device 2, Device 3, Theology (Wizardry 20), Wisdom +8 (24, +7), Charisma +6 (20, +5), Knowledge (theology & philsophy) +12 (+13), Medicine +14 (+17), Intimidate +6 (+8), Attack Bonus +7 (+7), Defense Bonus +7 (+7), Strength +2 (13, +1), Feats: Dedication, Defensive Attack, Defensive Strike, Demonic Glare)

Druid (Alternate Form) (Powers: Druidic (Wizardry 20), Shapeshift 5, Wisdom +12 (28, +9), Constitution +6 (15, +2), Dexterity +3 (15, +2), Attack Bonus +5 (+5), Defense Bonus +5 (+5), Survival +10 (+13), Handle Animal +10 (+12), Feats: Animal Empathy, Power Proxy)

Fighter (Alternate Form) (Powers: Weapon Summoning 7, Attack Bonus +11 (+11), Defense Bonus +11 (+11), Strength +8 (19, +4), Constitution +6 (15, +2), Knowledge (tactics) +8 (+9), Dexterity +3 (15, +2), Feats: Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Combat Awareness, Cunning Fighter, Defensive Strike, Dirty Fighting 3, Improved Aim, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Improved Throw, Instant Up, Last Stand, Move-by Action, Power Attack, Precise Shot 2, Precise Strike, Prone Fighting, Quick Draw 2, Reversal, Sweeping Strike, Takedown Attack 2, Two-Handed Attack, Veteran Fighter)

Monk (Alternate Form) (Powers: (Strength Bonus) Strike 5, Immunity 5, Insubstantial 4, Super-Movement 4, Strength +8 (19, +4), Wisdom +8 (24, +7), Attack Bonus +8 (+8), Defense Bonus +8 (+8), Concentration +12 (+15), Acrobatics +12 (+13), Feats: All-Out Attack, Attack Flurry (Unarmed Strike) 4, Break the Style 3, Evasion 2, Lighting Strike, Move-by Action, Stunning Attack, Swift 2, Takedown Attack)

>>7693829

Paladin (Alternate Form) (Powers: Armor (Device 2), Healing 4, Immunity 1, Smite (Damage 10), Super-Senses 1, Sword (Device 2), Attack Bonus +10 (+10), Dexterity +10 (22, +6), Strength +8 (19, +4), Concentration +4 (+7), Knowledge (theology & philsophy) +8 (+9), Diplomacy +16 (+18), Feats: Accurate Attack, Attractive 2, Beautiful Voice (Diplomacy) 4, Fascinate (Diplomacy), Fearless, Improved Initiative 3, Improved Sunder, Leadership, Power Attack, Rousing Speech (Diplomacy) 5)

Ranger (Alternate Form) (Powers: Sword Bow (Device 5), Attack Bonus +10 (+10), Defense Bonus +10 (+10), Strength +8 (19, +4), Dexterity +8 (20, +5), Constitution +4 (13, +1), Handle Animal +12 (+14), Survival +12 (+15), Bluff +4 (+6), Feats: Accurate Attack, Animal Empathy, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll 8, Distract (Bluff), Favored Opponent (Decided every time he transforms) 5, Two-Handed Attack)

Rogue (Alternate Form) (Powers: Rapier (Device 2), Attack Bonus +6 (+6), Defense Bonus +6 (+6), Dexterity +10 (22, +6), Reflex +8 (+9), Sleight of Hand +12 (+13), Stealth +16 (+17), Acrobatics +12 (+13), Disable Device +6 (+7), Disguise +12 (+14), Escape Artist +6 (+7), Gamble +14 (+17), Investigate +14 (+15), Intelligence +7 (19, +4), Feats: Accurate Attack, Assessment, Cat's Feet, Damaging Escape, Dedicated Dodge, Defensive Roll 10, Evasion 2, Sneak Attack 4, Uncanny Dodge (Hearing))

Wizard (Alternate Form) (Powers: Magical Mastery 12, Attack Bonus +3 (+3), Defense Bonus +3 (+3), Intelligence +10 (22, +6), Craft (mystical) +12 (+13), Knowledge (arcane Lore) +12 (+13), Concentration +4 (+7), Feats: Artificer, Assessment, Ritualist

>>7693839

Arcane Trickster (Battle Form) (Powers: Magical Mastery 6, Telekinesis 3, Dexterity +3 (15, +2), Disable Device +6 (+7), Escape Artist +6 (+7), Feats: Sneak Attack 4)

Assasin (Battle Form) (Powers: Death Touch 12, Drain 7, Immunity 1, Magic 4, Attack Bonus +4 (+4))

Duelist (Battle Form) (Powers: Deflect 6, Super-Movement 4, Reflex +2 (+3), Feats: Defensive Attack, Defensive Strike, Dodge Focus 7, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative 4, Precise Strike, Redirect)

Elderitch Knight (Battle Form) (Powers: Magical Mastery 9, Feats: Finishing Blow)

Loremaster (Battle Form) (Powers: Comprehend 6, Magical Mastery 4, Super-Senses 5, Constitution +3 (12, +1), Will +2 (+7), Fortitude +2 (+1), Reflex +2 (+3), Attack Bonus +1 (+1), Defense Bonus +1 (+1))

Shadow Dancer (Battle Form) (Powers: Illusion 8, Impervious Will 5, Summon 4, Super-Senses 2, Teleport 6, Feats: Defensive Roll 7, Hide in Plain Sight)

Attack Bonus: +0 (Ranged: +0, Melee: +0, Grapple: +0)

>>7693850

Defense: +0 (Flat-footed: +0), Knockback: +1

Initiative: +1

Drawbacks: Holding Back, common, major

Languages: English

Totals: Abilities 14 + Skills 2 (5 ranks) + Feats 1 + Powers 135 + Combat 0 + Saves 2 - Drawbacks 4 = 150

>>7693858

Warlock (Holding Back Form)

Power Level: 16; Power Points Spent: 150/150

STR: -1 (9), DEX: +0 (10), CON: +1 (13), INT: +2 (15), WIS: +1 (12), CHA: +8 (26)

Tough: +1/+6, Fort: +3, Ref: +1, Will: +12

Skills: Bluff 4 (+12), Craft (mystical) 18 (+20), Intimidate 20 (+28), Knowledge (arcane Lore) 18 (+20)

Feats: Artificer, Attack Focus (Ranged) 14, Distract (Intimidate), Equipment 3, Fascinate (Intimidate), Fearsome Presence 18

Powers:
Elderitch Blast (Blast 16) (DC 31; Line Area (5x400 ft. line - General); Variable Descriptor 2 (Broad group))
Confuse 17 (Alternate; DC 27; Area (Perception) (General))
Corrosion 16 (Alternate; DC 31; Cone Area (160 ft. cone - General); Additional Save (Reflex))
Disease 16 (Alternate; ability: strength, DC 26)
Energy Aura 12 (Alternate; energy type: arcane/profane, DC 27; Selective)
Nauseate 16 (Alternate; DC 26; Cloud Area (80 ft. diameter, lingers - General))
Pain 10 (Alternate; DC 20)

>>7693866

Equipment: Flail, heavy, Plate-Mail

Attack Bonus: +1 (Ranged: +15, Melee: +1, Grapple: +0)

Attacks: Confuse 17, +15 (DC Will 27), Corrosion 16, +1 (DC Fort/Ref/Tou {ref multisave}{macro star}{ref}), Disease 16, +1 (DC Fort 26), Elderitch Blast (Blast 16), +15 (DC 31), Energy Aura 12, +1 (DC 27), Flail, heavy, +1 (DC 18), Nauseate 16, +1 (DC Fort/Staged 26), Pain 10, +15 (DC Will 20), Unarmed Attack, +1 (DC 14)

Defense: +0 (Flat-footed: +0), Knockback: -3

Initiative: +0

Languages: English

Totals: Abilities 25 + Skills 15 (60 ranks) + Feats 38 + Powers 56 + Combat 2 + Saves 14 + Drawbacks 0 = 150

Seriously though. If you use this character you pretty much should be posting "LOL I TROLL U" to the GM.

>>7693812
>>7693829
>>7693839
>>7693850
>>7693858

Did... did you just make a character that's every class at the same time?

>>7693878

Most from the PHB and the DMG yes.

Although not the Sorcerer... for obvious reasons.

>>7693745
I know how to do it. Its a devise with the gestalt power. I'm just wondering what you guys thought about it.
>>7693776
That could work. Although all probably balance it out by having all the abilitys in the battle form, then give it slow fade of fucking forever, like the mon story earlier.

So device with Gestalt and Battleform. Gestalt can't be used without all the parts anyway, and each part has different abilty's anyway.

Then give gestalt the flaw Powerloss, or limited maybe? To make it easier to take apart.

>>7693878
Not at the same time silly, he can just switch between them any time.

>>7693963

Um... What is this "Battleform" you speak of?

>>7694006

Not QUITE. One of his major drawbacks is that he's stuck in his altered form for an entire 24 hours before he changes back and is free to select again.

So it's not like "You're fighting now, time to be a fighter" or "You're sneaking now, time to be a rogue".

>>7694039
So you're a final fantasy character.

>>7694006

Well, fuck. Why not just play as captain Ret-Con?

Roll ten different sheets, (or more. You won't need more right away, but switch randomly.)

Make sure the GM is cool with this, then see how long it takes the players to figure out.

"Bob, blow the door open with your lazer eyes!'

"Exactly when did my Gamma mutant get lazer eyes?"

"What, aren't you playing as a Cyclops knock-off?'

"I thought he was Kaimen Rider"

"What the hell happened to his ninja?"

Good times, good times.

>>7694033
Super Saiyan.

Its in the Mecha and Manga book.
It gives you extra powerpoints equalto its rank tims 15. so if its maxed out, you have TWICE your PL's points to spend. These point make your battle form, Your battle form is continuous and lasts a number of turns equal to its rank, but you can add a slow fade. Its kinda like alternate form, but adds to your existing character instead of creating a new one.

>>7694039

FYI: His personality changes when he transforms too.

Barbarian: Mead drinking, wenches gathering brawler.
Bard: Ultimate ladies man. Think Naveen from Princess and the Frog.
Cleric: Fire and brimstone pathological asshole.
Druid: Dirty hippie.
Fighter: Bitter old veteran type with an advanced knowledge of battle.
Monk: "inner peace" Dolly Llama type guy.
Paladin: Super nice boyscout.
Ranger: Cocky, emo and too far up his own ass to simply say "fuck it".
Rogue: Greedy backstabber.
Wizard: Absent minded bookworm.
Warlock: Fucking insane megalomaniac.

Pretty much he adopts the most prevalent clich'es of the class he chooses.

>>7694096

Huh. Never thought of it like that but in a way I guess?

Well he's certainly not bishie and he's definitely not apart of an overly convoluted love triangle involving time-travel.

>>7694163

>its rank tims 15

What? NO NO. It gives you it's rank X5.

It's basically the alternate form power save it disappears after a while.

>>7694163

Iiiiiinteresting.

>>7694174
What about Chrono Cross?

>>7694164
Make the paladin form prone to tripping.

Laugh you ass off whenever he 'falls'

>>7694206

>involving time-travel

>>7694213
>>7694192
>>7694174
>>7694164
>>7694039

DUDE: >>7694106

CAPTAIN RETCOOOOOOOOOON!!

>>7694163
A shame I can't find it on [rs].

>>7694228
Nah, captain sounds pretty gay.

Just call him Ret-Con. Thats it.

>>7694212
OH GOD, WHY DID I LOL

>Convoluted love triangle involving time-travel.
Sweet.

>>7694106

That's funny. But it's also kinda meta.

The backstory for him is that he was just an ordinary DND nerd who wound up saving a drama club member from an evil warlord type guy who was ALSO a fantasy nerd.

>>7694262

Were you there for the Captain Retcon thread?

Fuck no, he's a Captain for a reason.

What you just said is the equivalent of saying "Doctor makes it sound pretentious, why not just call him Who?'

Fucking A man, He's the Captain.

Captain Retcon.

I actually really like how damage is scored and dealt. I know, i know, being constructive and offering valid criticism is verboten, but fuck it, im doing it.

I like how there is a big difference between hitting your opponent and actually dealing damage to those that you hit. It really makes the heroes feel more comic book-y, with superpowered tuff guis easy to hit but hard to harm, and flimsy elffags being hard to actually hit with your powers or weapons, but easily broken when you do...


I dont know. It just feels like the right kinda system for a comic book inspired system

>>7694255
The thread already has links to ALL M&M books. 2 downloads for mech and manga, and W&W, and a torrent containing everything else.

>>7694324

Why is lightsaber Red?

>>7694324

Mutants and Masterminds is best when you're playing it to the "rule of cool" idea.

All I know is that in one of the Freedom City books...I believe it's in Iron Age...they mention a plot by a mad scientist. He straps breathing apparatuses and anti-gravity harnesses to sharks and lets them loose in downtown Freedom City during rush hour.

And then he detonates a "blood bomb."

>>7694379

That's... surprisingly silver age for an supposed iron age book.

>>7694379
GASHUNK.

>>7694405
The flying sharks certainly are. I don't remember which book, really. All I know is that it was in one of their time-lines.

>>7694324
I LOVE the damage system. Plus you can easilly change between all attacks are non lethal, to all attacks are lethal, in an instant.

No moddification needed.

I like the system far better the HP.

Reminds me of a gimmik system i saw where instead of rolling dice for skill checks, you pulled blocks out of a jenga tower. If you suceeded, your character does.if you fail, your character dies.

At any moment you could choose to INTENSTIONALLY knock over the tower to make a dramtiic sacrifice, autosuceeding, but killing yourself in the process.

Gonna say it right now, the best fluff I'll never use is Quirk from the freedom city setting.

Everyone who has the book knows what I'm talking about.

Quick summary for those who don't: He has Beyonder-grade omnipotence, but a child's imagination.

Example: He once tried to solve a traffic jam by giving everyone in the city the ability to fly.

After about an hour, when the roads cleared off, he turned off everyone's ability to fly.

Regardless of where they were.

He has since been asked to 'stop helping'.

>>7694471
Ah yes, Quirk. A combination of Q, Mr. Mxyzsptlk, and Bat-Mite all wrapped up in the body of a petulant 12 year old.

>>7694450
Fuck that, Jenga Health bar.

Instead of telling you how much damage you take, it tels you how many blocks to remove. If a few fall off the top, you fall uncouncious, if it completely falls over, you die.

Actually the more I think about it. Captain Retconn seems more likely to be a guy with a variable power structure.

>>7694534
I always liked UA's health system. You have a number of HP equal to your Body stat, so you know what it starts at. For every attack, you lose HP, but only the GM knows the exact number. The GM describes how you got hurt, what it feels like, and what the effects are, but NOT exactly how many points you have left.

In theory it's supposed to encourage more realistic roleplaying. You get hit, lose five points? Big whoop? You get hit and your teeth are rattling, there's blood dripping from your forehead, and you've got spots in your eyes? Now you're not sure HOW hurt you are and you may back off.

Captain Retcon, a transdimensional artifact hunter, Jenga healthbar homebrew, A computer nerd who overclocked his Mon, and a decent explenation of the dynamic array system?

Please tell me this has been archived.

Frankly, I like that abilities don't have anything to do with combat ability. Just because you're incredibly strong doesn't mean you know a thing about fighting well. Now, if you have high STR and a good attack bonus, then you're a world class fighter.

>>7694654
It was archived when we realized M&M could be used to make Super Smash Bros with Conan VS Ash Katchum VS Batman

>>7694580

One 'n'.

And no, the joke is that he can, at will, change all of his powers, contacts, backstory, and everything at will.

Only certain people notice this.

Also, what the hell? I made a Captain Retcon thread as a joke after he was mentioned in that one thread.

How did he become so popular?

Oh, and his mild-mannered alter-ego works at Game-Workshop as a copy-editor, and he's Superboy Prime's father every Friday and only on Friday.

>>7694717

Huh, forgot my name.

>>7694717

And that could be easily achieved by lowering almost all of his ability scores to 1 and then giving him Shapeshift with the innate feat.

>>7694654
>>7694713
Dude, why is this not /tg/s favorite system?

Sure it has some balance problems, but hell, every system does. I mean look at pun-pun.

But this system has FUCKING BATMAN FIGHTING FUCKING CONAN THE BARBARIAN!

>>7694804
Inate and unreliable, since its random.

>>7694830

I actually wonder why people bitch about balancing when it should be the GM's job to correct the balancing issues himself.

You don't like how your PC is abusing the metamagic rules or is maxing out his cleric? Then tell him to stop it. DM's that don't know when to say no are going to imbalance a system way more than any rulebook will.

>>7694863

If it's random then I think you mean uncontrolled.

>>7694804

It's been discussed quite thoroughly, and there are several ways to approach this character.

The best way to do it, both from a RP and Crunch perspective, is to hot-swap the character sheets.

That and it fits the meta-humor behind the character so much better.

>>7694863
And two points of subtle. Sine they dont notice.

>>7694871
>I actually wonder why people bitch about balancing when it should be the GM's job to correct the balancing issues himself.
BECAUSE BALANCING OUT SOME SYSTEMS IS A HERCULEAN FUCKING LABOR. I'D RATHER JUST PLAY A A SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T SNAP IN HALF EVERY TIME SOMEONE DOES THE OBVIOUS THING FOR HIS CHARACTER

>>7694886
>>7694863

It is neither random nor uncontrolled.

>>7694891

So you're basically looking at a metamorph?

That works. But you can only make so many character sheets before it becomes a pain in the butt.

>>7694830
YEAH! Someone should make a thread about how M&M is the best system out th-

OH WAIT

>>7694910
...
Are you serious?
Herculean effort.
Fuckin' drama queen.

>>7694917

There are char-builders to help make them, and you just randomly grab a new sheet out of the pile whenever you want to switch.

The only 'hard' thing is having to come up with a vaguely fitting back-story for every incarnation.

Though, if you want the meta-humor to stack Denny's Pancakes high, use your suggested build as one of the sheets.

OH FYI: my favorite drawback is holding back.

Literally you make a PC that's like 5 or 8 power level's higher than your current character and the drawback is that this "has to have a negative side effect". Essentially you're gaining power points so you can have an alternate form that's STRONGER than your current form.

>>7694910
Dude, just do what everyone esle does. If a player acts up, including intentionally breaking the game, (wether you are the gm or not) just slap them on the wrist and say "Cut that shit out"

In my experiance, that is more then enough. And if, for whatever reason, he doesn't stop, make some bullshit excuse that because of the overuse, he now takes damage whenever he does whatever the game breaking action his.

IF HE STILL CONTINUES, kick him out or leave yourself. You don't want to be gaming with that faggot anyway.

>>7694932
Why are you posting here? You're clearly not interested in rational argument.

>>7694910
Then I wouldn't suggest a superhero system. They're all like this.

Does anyone have a crack of HeroLab?

>>7694952
That would be funny as hell. Your character, that turn into different characters, turns into a character, that turns into different characters.

Thats some fucking high quality metahumor right now.

>>7695033

The thing about Superheroes is that they're basically a mesh of thousands of genres and settings anyway.

Any system that uses them is either going to be ridiculously complex or relatively simple.

>>7695033
Actually, I just wouldn't suggest generic systems. True generic systems all require the GM to watch the entire process of character creation like a hawk and be ever vigilant about balance. You either get tight design and limited options or difficult balance and lots of options. One has the advantage of being easier to run, the other has the advantage of not requiring you to learn a new system (that may not meet up to your vision of the genre anyway) every time you want a new style of game.

>>7695073

Sadly no. But hey I was one of the people to actually BUY IT.

Yes I really do like this system too much.

>>7694164
>Dolly Llama

>>7695125
Whoops, forgot my pic.

>>7695083
Better yet, use a character like Rogue (X-Men) as one of his alts, then steal Shifts randomly between powers guy's power.

Your a guy who switches powers randomly, randomly switching to a power that steals power to steal the power of someone who has the power to randomly change powers.

Gentlemen, I believe we are approaching hyper-dimensional meta-humor and a quantum level.

Be advised, the shit has indeed, just got real.

>>7695138
Tenzin Gyatso?!

The 14th Dalai Lama?!

JUST SAID FUCK!?

>>7695073
Hi Lace!

I haven't had any luck finding one, but im gonna get it with my next paycheck and see what I can do.

>>7695150

Fuck someone should e-mail Andrew Hussie with this idea.

>>7695150
WHAT THE FUCK AM I READING?

>>7695224

Hyper-dimensional Meta-humor.

I have accidentally created the ultimate troll line.

Cheers!

>>7695165

Somewhere along the line, this thread turned into pure win... I think it was back at the smash bros setting.

>>7695332

With Captain Retcon, hyper-dimensional Meta-humor, and an angry Dali Lama, It has only improved since then.

So we are in agreement then? M&M is the best system ever.

>>7695456

Damn close second anyway.

>>7695509
Second to whom?

>>7695631
Second to Whom? Whoever's homebrew is in their mind the best system ever made.

>>7695351
>angry Dali Lama
is that a spelling mistake, or a mix of Salvadore Dali and Dalai Lama? If it's the latter, then HOLY SHIT

>>7696059
That doesn't count.

>>7698692
You bumped a 5-hour dead thread for THAT?

>>7698743
yep

well since this is back up, has anyone found a crack for herolab?