1965, 30 full years after the initial discovery of the machine, we are still no closer to discovering its purpose than we were back then. It is simply too vast, too alien, and according to most scientists, too impossible to be understood. We realized this after the first ten years, since we hadn't even managed to map out 1% of the machine, much less gotten anywhere with understanding how or why it worked. A machine this large was simply against the laws of physics. Since we realized we would never be able to understand it on our own, someone came up with the obvious solution. We'd find the blueprints.

There had to be some kind of schematics somewhere, and if we could just find them, maybe we could better understand what all of this was about. Governments all across the world declared that they would pay good money for any information regarding the origins or mechanics of the machine, a system for clearance was developed, and so the great rush to the center of the Earth started.

The year is now 2008 and we're still not much closer to figuring the machine out. We know how parts of it work, but it's the barest of fractions of knowledge. Still, the exploration continues. Every now and then, some adventurer finds an arcane piece of machinery of one of those weird folding cubes with that squiggly writing that gives you a migraine all over them, and gets handsomely rewarded. Sure, you have to look out so you don't end up crushed between two giant gears, and sure, if you get too close to some parts of the machine, those clockwork Engineers will rip you to pieces, but come on, did you see what they're paying for one of those electric rods? And my buddy Tom says that he's found a place with hundreds of them! All we have to do is somehow shut down the generator momentarily, get in, grab the rods, look out for the Engineers and get back out.

Well, what do you say?

So, the basic idea of the setting is isolationist horror. The players take the role of Delvers, people working for the institute governing access to the Machine. Since we have no idea what it does or what tinkering with it might do, access is restricted and interference is kept to a minimum. After all, this machine may very well be what makes reality tick.

The main dangers so far consist of the Machine itself, as people were never meant to enter it, the Engineers, basically machines designed to maintain and repair the Machine and who occasionally see people as pollutants and foreign objects threatening its integrity, and of course, other Delvers who either went mad, or simply want some arcane piece of tech for themselves.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/4812621/

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/4818437/

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/4823788/

For those of you who are interested in previous threads.

Anyone?

>>12266965
Looks interesting and I'd be willing to play in it.

Any idea on the system you'd use?

/have you ever run a game in it?

Why would the machine that makes reality tick be on (in) Earth? Wouldn't it be at the center of the universe or at least somewhere more significant than a backwater planet in a small galaxy?

Is there more than one entrance to the machine now? Are known entrances generally guarded?

I remember this shit. It was pretty sweet.

>>12267001
I've done some tests using BRP and Savage Worlds. Currently leaning towards BRP for the sanity mechanic, since it's supposed to have a bit of a horror flavour.

Currently working on the dynamics of a session. Basically, I want the Machine to be gigantic, empty, utterly incomprehensible and terrifying, but still provide encounters for the players.

My current philosophy revolves around rooms posing challenges without any kind of direct combat due to the Machine obviously not being meant for people to walk around in (rooms full of pistons, timed steam vents, and so on), but which will still force players to find clever ways to circumvent.

Still trying to figure out the ratio of fightan/exploran/lootan. Then again, maybe I won't have to.

>>12267016
Who knows? That's part of the weirdness. Why would it be inside the planet to begin with? Why does the world still work when it shouldn't due to physics? What does it even do? Are there other similar machines out there?

>>12267030
I'm leaving that one open. Officially, there are only a few entrances, all of which are guarded, but there could very well be undiscovered ones. Generally speaking, though, most governments don't want unauthorized people in there, since fucking the Machine up could do anything.

>>12267082
Yeah, secret entrances is what I was thinking of. I imagine a criminal organization possessing one, or the cold war coming into play.

>>12267071

That sounds like good stuff, but you should be prepared to answer those questions if you want to run a good campaign. Or, at least provide several possibilities if you think giving a definite answer would ruin the mystery.

What about technology? You mentioned we have understood parts of the machine. Has this lead to any significant breakthroughs?

If it can have something that feels more creepy than your average steampunk whimsy, then you have my attention.

>>12267016
Guesses include: The planet was built that way and is actually an artificially created planet with alien tech, it seemed like as good a place as any for it. The tech could be in place to maintain artificial gravity, orbit, etc.

It seems reasonable in its own reality.

>>12267113
I have several possibilities ready, because let's face it, eventually someone will get the bright idea to start blowing parts of it up. And once they do, I'll have to make something happen. I'm keeping it open, though, allowing me to use whichever purpose I like best in any given situation. Feel free to suggest any, if you like.

>>12267115
Basically, the idea was that since the Machine's been working without hiccup for what may possibly be the entire existence of our planet, we've learned lots about mechanics from it. More efficient transfer of power and so on. Otherwise, we really don't know much about it or how it works. It's simply too alien.

However, we reached a consensus that since we had this thing inside the planet, there never would have been much of an interest in the space race. Instead we would compete within the Machine. Who could Delve the furthest, who could learn the most, and so on and so on. As a consequence, we never would have satellites or many of the technologies developed as a result of the Cold War, instead focusing on tech that made machine exploration easier.

>>12267116
Honestly, the first thing I thought of was Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Hey! I remember this!

>>12267016
My bet was always that the machine was an enormous Dean Drive, a planetary scale reactionless engine, likely used to modify the orbits of natural planets when you're re-engineering a young solar system to better fit your tastes. But then something went off-kilter and the moon got pulled into orbit around the machine, and now the angular momentum and tidal stresses from it's orbit is slowing winding the machine down. Or something went off-kilter and now the moon is being used to wind the machine back up so it can get back to work. Without knowing more about the machine it's really impossible to say which might be true (if either), but both possibilities would likely be catastrophic for all currently in residence.

I've also been evolving a concept I refer to as Deep Madness in lieu of a less clichéd name. Basically, Delvers tend to go mad, and it gets worse the deeper they go. The constant clanging, hissing, buzzing and roaring of the Machine has a peculiar effect on the people exploring it, and the deeper you go, the weirder things seem to get. It usually starts as bad dreams. Psychological records include examples of drowning in oil, as well as having cogs and pistons painfully incorporated into one's flesh.

This is only the beginning, however. This usually escalates into erratic behaviour, extreme emotion swings and eventually madness. There are reports of Deep Mad Delvers throwing themselves into obvious death traps "to be part of the Machine" or wiping out their entire expedition team.

Whether this is some function of the Machine on the human mind, or merely a version of the phenomenon known as cabin fever is unknown, but leading psychologists generally seem to believe it's perfectly reasonable behaviour for people trapped in a hostile environment days from the nearest help.

Also, some writefaggotry on courtesy of Anonymous that I saved because I found it pretty sweet.

"Remember - while you have been approved for expeditions into the machine and have been granted your Delver license, the UNSERC (United Nations Subterranean Exploration and Research Committee) maintains the tunnel compound and checkpoints. Contraband and other forbidden devices and substances, a full list of which you will find listed on page 437 in this handbook, will be confiscated by UNSERC security upon discovery. The Machine is largely unknown to mankind yet, and as such many personal weapons, devices, and substances perfectly legal on the surface may confiscated. Please rest assured that more often than not this is for your own safety, as well as for the safety of the Machine."

>>12267280
"While exploring the Machine, your party may encounter various pieces of mobile or attached machinery. These "Little Engineers" are the workforce of the Machine, laboring tirelessly to keep it in working order.
If you see one, don't panic! their might appear strange or dangerous, but they are there for everyone's best interests. Be sure to make way for our friend, the Little Engineer!"

And as for technology, this piece is definitely in.

From MANNCO INDUSTRIES comes the next ESSENTIAL TOOL for traversing through the Machine!

The DELVERSTIK 7000 is made from state-of-the-art alloys developed from those found in the Machine! Studies have shown that it's better than steel and as light as bronze, which means you are LESS TIRED and can CARRY MORE BACK TO BASE.
Using advanced GYROSCOPIX technology, the DELVERSTIK 7000 is PERFECTLY BALANCED, even in the chaotic innards of the Machine! In addition, the DELVERSTIK 7000 comes with an ergonomic grip design and THREE TOOL HEADS, design patent pending! The CROWBAR, PIKE, and HAMMER faces are a flawless multitool, giving you everything you need to remove ANYTHING from ANYWHERE at ANYTIME!
In addition, when out of ammunition and engineering Machine units are on the move, the DELVERSTIK HAMMER FACE and DELVERSTIK PIKE ATTACHMENT are powerful defensive weapons!

Don't gamble on your life, strike it rich! Strike out with the MANNCO DELVERSTIK 7000 SERIES.

From MANNCO industries come the next REVOLUTIONARY TOOL in our popular line of DELVER DEVICES.

The MANNCO DELVERCAM is a FULLY OUTFITTED data device, equipped with a TOP-OF-THE-LINE film camera with our industry-leading AUTO-FOCUS and EXACTO-EXPOSURE!

In addition, the DELVERCAM carries a SUPER-BRIGHT LED flashlight, essential to every delver team! And new in the DELVERCAM series is the SONIC RESONATOR, which fools those Little Engineers into thinking you're a working cog in the Machine! Never be bothered by the machine again!

Bonus features include HAND CRANK and KINETIC CHARGER. Wind it, wear it, charge it as you walk, run, climb, dive, shake in your sleep to keep the ELECTROMITES from you! As long as its clipped to your belt you will never be without power!

Don't gamble with your life, strike it rich! Strike out the MANNCO DELVERCAM.

So, what do you need our help with? I mean, it's cool and all, but I don't really know what to do.

>>12267335
I need focus. The reason this hasn't progressed as much as I like is because I'm not focused and keep drifting off. I need to establish a solid timeline, work out roughly what technologies are available, and then establish a few core concepts (such as Deep Madness, artifacts from within the Machine, possible schematics and so on).

The rest is stuff that can be thrown together before every session, though I intend to stat out some of the more common obstacles, "traps" and Engineers at some point. But the first thing I need to do is establish it as a fully functional setting before hammering out the mechanical bits.

What I see happening is NORTH KOREA announcing to the WORLD that they have dug a shaft into the MACHINE and their demands WILL be met or they will drop a NUKE or a few into it.

An interesting idea would be for the actions of the delvers to have above-ground implications. You mentioned them turning off a generator to get at some loot?

Well, that generator is responsible for the tectonic shifting of the Indian plate, and by shutting it off, India experiences massive quakes as it reverses direction.

The rods are important tools for adjusting power flow, and removing them causes electrical storms to appear over random areas.

So there's going to be government security in the upper layers as well as the robotic engineers. Good luck!

In other words, if we establish the Machine was discovered in the 30's, what impact does that have? Is there still a WWII? How does the existence of the Machine impact that? Is it simply put on hold while everyone is busy fighting or is it considered way too important to just be dropped? Maybe they intend to use it as a way to fuel the war effort.

As for the Cold War, there is already an idea about some kind of Delving War, as mentioned earlier. The problem here is that we kind of need WWII to have a Cold War, and that the idea was to have a single main entrance, and perhaps a few "emergency hatches" in remote parts of the world. This means that whoever controls the main entrance will have a massive advantage.

Personally, I was thinking that UNSERC was established some time during the Cold War, since the Machine was a global concern, and we didn't want people running around in it on their own, all willy-nilly. So we established some sort of UN that was supposed to control Machine access. Now, whether it was successful or not is still up in the air, but I sort of like the idea of Soviet and American joint efforts, as unlikely as it may be, especially since it concerns potentially groundbreaking technology. A more logical conclusion would probably be competing teams under strict surveillance by secret police to prevent defection and spying.

The more I think about it, the more awesome a game set during this Cold War looks to me. Needing to reach a certain part before the Reds, avoiding assassins out to steal your finds, and general sabotage.

Sanguinius is specifically said in-codex to have been the best

>>12267414
That's a cool idea, and one that has been raised previously. There was even mentioning of the Machine artifacts scavenged and brought to the surface having unforeseen effects. Basically, you bring a weird Tesla coil thingie, and soon the area is plagued by thunderstorms. Or maybe the perpetual motion machine switches directions. Suddenly, machines start suffering random malfunctions.

Not sure how fantastic I want it to be yet. But yeah, messing with the Machine should definitely have consequences, but how obvious they should be is still up for question.

>>12267430
wrong thread buddy.

>>12267443
problem is how do you then motivate the players?

If every scrap of machinery they bring up will have horrible consequences and they know this, why bother?

For money? Great you can totally buy a mansion in the new shittier world plagued by earthquakes and thunderstorms you just made

>>12267468
Not everything would fuck shit up. Basically, it's a plot hook. Bring something up, only for it to have unintended consequences, Star Trek style. Allows for above ground intrigues as well. Social interaction is also a nice part of a game. Also prevents labs from having massive stores of artifacts, instead shipping them to remote test facilities to make sure they're safe.

As for why they would Delve, that depends. For science, for money, for adventure, for their country. In fact, I'm starting to like the idea of a Cold War setting more and more, in which case the side-effects would be considered a price worth paying just so the other side couldn't use it against you.

>>12267468
They're partisans, and they're trying to identify which parts do what so that they can sabotage the enemy country without harming their own.

Trial and error is involved.

Where is the main entrance? I think somewhere in the middle of nowhere would be awesome, like Greenland.

There should be crazy machine worshiping cults as well!

Also, if WW2 doesn't happen, what of the League of Nations? It was doomed regardless, but if it's replaced by the UN again in this setting, what finishes it off?

Also, what about the South Pacific? Did the Japanese still fall or is Asia ruled under the Emperor of Japan?

There should be some sort of religious or fundamentalist faction that completely denies the existence of the machine. It should be fairly large too.

>>12267414
Well, if you have groups of mixed nationalities, you could easily play up the same inter-party tensions that were used up in Cold City. You are an American, so you don't really trust the Russian fellow that you're going into the machine with. You're all supposed to have each others back, as we're all friends on this expedition, but things don't really work like that as people don't just seem to leave their loyalties and biases at the door.

Then there are personal goals, which may or may not be hidden from the rest of the group. The NSA has asked that you, as an American, to retrieve a small component of one of the machine's internal mechanisms, despite the fact that this is strictly against UN regulations for delving. You figure that sneaky eyed commmie is likely trying to do the same thing, so you may have to beat him to the punch or catch him in the act so he can be the fall guy when you make off with the part. All of this is set against the backdrop of a larger mission, maybe going down into the machine to try and chart out a new section or look for signs of another team that went missing.

>>12267611
No, they'd be a laughing stock and too easy to prove wrong. All you'd have to do is show them the machine.

If there is such a religion, it would be a tiny cult.

>>12267616
And the hiss of the steam venting and constant grinding of metal on metal and the lack of any day-night cycle is slowly driving up everyone stress. Your expedition leader, a Belgian fellow by the name of Pietre, is UNSERC in his blood. He'll play things strictly by the book, but he's been down here too often and for too long, and everyone knows it. Lord only knows why he keeps getting sent back down. You're bet would be he has some pull with the top brass; you wouldn't figure that someone as stiff necked as him would be trying to play and kind of agenda, but anythings possible. It's anyone's guess how dependable he really can be by this point, or if this'll be the dive when he finally snaps. there're REASONS why the folks at the top of the shaft don't let people bring guns down here anymore. Not that you weren't able to sneak your backup piece down with the rest of your gear. You had too, really. Couldn't take the chance that someone else might try to break that rule before you did.

Paranoia. Paranoia is the name of the game here. The players are a party of people with very little trust forced to rely on each other while isolated in a dangerous situation. The machine and its parts can be dangerous, but the rest of your party members are the real danger, and everyone knows it.

>>12267632

Ok, well then there should be a religious faction that believes the Machine is literally God, and to trifle with it is blasphemy. They should be trying to blow up the government entrances and stuff.

>>12267632
Clearly you're not going down into the earth when you enter the machine. You're descending into hell.

Break the machine! Crack the gear and split the axel! The machine is the devils plaything and we must return to grace, lest we be judged impure by the all-seeing eye of God!

LUDDITES FOREVER

>oh wait that's not really denying the existence of the machine is it
>oh well I just like the idea of Amish Terrorists way too much

>>12267605
>Where is the main entrance? I think somewhere in the middle of nowhere would be awesome, like Greenland.
Currently, South America. Probably some remote part, since it hadn't been officially discovered until the 30's.

>There should be crazy machine worshiping cults as well!
This is also an idea I've been toying with, but currently I'm leaning toward them being sort of like the people who think the moon landings are a hoax. A somewhat connected community, but without any significant social impact.

>Also, if WW2 doesn't happen, what of the League of Nations? It was doomed regardless, but if it's replaced by the UN again in this setting, what finishes it off?
See, this is the sort of stuff I need to figure out. I'm not exactly the world's greatest historian, but with the direction things are taking, I might need a WWII to get stuff like the Cold War and a UN.

>Also, what about the South Pacific? Did the Japanese still fall or is Asia ruled under the Emperor of Japan?
See above. Though I sort of like the idea of Japan and Great Britain being completely different. But yeah, I'm leaning toward history only having slight diversions up until post-WWII.

>>12267611
This is also something I'm working on. Outright denying the Machine would be hard for a large group of people to do when presented with hard evidence. However, disliking, hating or fearing it is definitely an option. I'm also thinking that maybe some kind of incident, such as a priest being admitted to enter, only to attempt to wreck the Machine, has caused a bit of strain between UNSERC and the church. Possibly to the extent that the church is claiming it's being discriminated against.

>>12267616
>>12267649
Gold, fellow anon. Pure gold.

This is pretty much what I was going for. Allows the game to have a whole new focus it lacked before, and also provides lots of opportunities for intra-party conflict and encounters with other Delvers. Also great for the sanity mechanic I'm working on, as someone suffering from Deep Madness might be dead certain the commie is going to kill him in his sleep. But he can't just kill him. that would cause way too many problems. No, but if he were to have an accident, nobody would ever know.

Fiddled a little with a rudimentary timeline. No hard dates yet, but more of a foundation to build on.

The Machine is discovered. Americans quickly claim the site of the entrance and establish a military base to defend it.

World War II breaks out. Machine exploration is ground to a halt.

There are whispers that Hitler is fostering a growing obsessions with the Machine, and that he has already sent specialist teams into it.

End of World War II. An important issue at the Malta conference is access to the Machine. A question that is never fully solved.

The UN is formed. One of the first orders of business is to establish UNSERC (United Nations Subterranean Exploration and Research Committee) to govern access to the Machine. The United States are forced to relinquish possession over the entrance, and Outpost 1 is established.

The great Delving Race begins. Both the Soviet Union and United States invest massive amounts of money in delver expeditions in the hopes of discovering technology that will give them an advantage over the other side.

The Houlihan incident. A catholic priest named Stephen Houlihan is admitted entrance to the Machine. After a day of exploring, Houlihan attempts to destroy as much of the Machine as possible. He is quickly stopped, but the Catholic church (and Christianity in general) still suffer a massive setback after this incident.

>>12268086
Thorough screening processes are implemented for delvers, including extensive background checks and psychological testing, and access to the Machine is greatly limited. Some call these processes unethical and a breach of personal integrity, but they still receive popular support despite protests.

First joint mission between Soviet and US delvers. The result of the expedition was less than stellar, as little progress was made before the American scientists accused the Soviets of sabotaging their recording equipment.

A Soviet team deep within the Machine is wiped out in what is officially labeled an accident. The Soviets claim foul play, and present what they say is proof to that effect, but nothing ever comes of it.

The Sandhoff reform is implemented. It is a reform of UNSERC protocols intended to make delvers more loyal to UNSERC's humanitarian goals than any single nation. The reform draws a lot of criticism, especially from the Soviet Union, who see this as a plot from the western bloc to gain exclusive access to the Machine.

>>12268095
And this is basically where the game kicks off. While delvers are supposed to be loyal to UNSERC and humanity as a whole, this is obviously an idealist view of reality. The truth is that UNSERC is riddled with spies, saboteurs and nationalism is just as rampant as in the outside world.

>>12268199
Thank you for your meaningful contribution. It's obvious you were paying attention to the thread and not just spewing random insults to troll.

Anyone else have any input?

I really like the wild imagery this game conjures up in my mind, hissing pipes, clacking gears, soot covered explorers with gleaming eyes hinting of madness, underground Russian operatives, clockwork horrors capable of mangling flesh...
Are you going to do a comprehensive write up once this whole thing is finished OP?

Thanks for reminding me of the Machine. Stealing the idea for my infinite worlds campaign.

>spesterg presents
Who, sperglord? I sincerely doubt it.

Have you ever seen Steamboy OP? There's some great imagery in there that you could probably draw from, when it comes to describing the machine.

>>12268283
That's the general idea. If I can stay focused and not drift off into a million other projects floating around in the back of my head, I will attempt to make it a somewhat comprehensive setting. If I really feel productive, I might even start statting shit out.

But first priority is getting the background straight and working out setting details.

>>12268287
Feels good man.

>>12268323
I'll have to check it out. Always good with additional sources of inspiration.

>>12268330
>Always good with additional sources of inspiration.
Yeah, when you lose basic grammar, you may be too sleepy to get anything productive done. Anyone have anything they want to discuss before I go to bed?

Throwing around an idea: The Machine has a penal colony near the entrance. Prisoners are normally shot if they come within 500 feet of the exit, but bringing back artifacts from inside the Machine can redeem them.

Pic related, it's the device Curt Herzstark, a prisoner of the original concentration camp inside the Machine, used to buy his freedom. A highly sophisticated mechanical calculator.

Question, how do people go from the shaft entrance on the surface to the outer fringes of the Machine? How far is it? Is there a single elevator, or are there stops along the way?

If the Machine is as large as the north american continent, that makes it 3000-7000 miles across, which leaves quite a bit of space between there and the surface.

Are there any specific scientific advances that have come from the machine?

I mean this is a fantastic opportunity to create a machinepunk modern world.

Has anybody ever captured an engineer and taken it apart?

>>12268410
It specifically says LARGER. Quite a whole lot actually, it fills the inside of the Earth.

>>12268410
There is quite a bit of distance. The original expedition took months. Nowadays there are various modes of transport installed to simplify travel, but it still takes quite a while to get to the Machine itself.

>>12268426
I'm a bit cautious when it comes to including sci-fi concepts. Sure, there will be advances, but not too far off. Currently I'm thinking we've managed to mimic certain construction principles and possibly vastly improved power sources. Maybe even replacing combustion engines with electrical ones.

What I do want, however, is for personal computers to be far more advanced than the time period would normally allowed. Storing and recording data would be paramount for a delving expedition, especially as there are strict restrictions on what may or may not be taken from the Machine.

>>12268465
Forgot my namefag, I see.

Final bump of the night.

Might as well give you more than a bump, though. I'm thinking about what would make UNSERC more potent in enforcing rules than the actual Cold War era UN. Basically, what I came up with is that it really needs to be more of an independent organization detached from nations. It also helps that the Sandhoff reform would have placed most advanced technology in the hands of UNSERC instead of instantly shipping it off to the US or USSR.

>>12268598
They get to use their stockpiles of untested gadgets. Clockwork machine guns better than standard devices found elsewhere. Basically hyper-advanced steampunk technology that looks more like parts of the Machine than surface weapons.

>>12268676
I'm not too sure. I was thinking mostly advancements in alloys, engineering and power sources. Stuff that could be directly observed, since we don't really understand how the Machine works. Throwing clockwork weapons and stuff into it seems kind of out of place.

Now, armour-piercing guns designed to take down Engineers (something that is strictly forbidden in all but the most extreme circumstances) would be more like it. Powerful decryption software, personal storage devices, communication devices and survival gear would also be in great demand.

I don't see how people who believe the machine to be god are just like people who believe the moon landings are a hoax.
We have a machine at the center of the Earth that transcends reality, and without it reality is broken. How can you claim that it is anything other than divine, even if not god itself? The machine is clearly either designed by a Greater Being, or is itself omniscient, as it is already omnipotent.

>>12268821
>We have a machine at the center of the Earth that transcends reality, and without it reality is broken.
But that's not what I said at all. In fact, one of the ideas I have is that the Machine is already broken, and has been for an incredibly long time. Just because it cannot be explained at the moment, it doesn't have to be divine.

Now, thinking the Machine is the work of God, aliens, or whatever isn't an uncommon view. After all, logic dictates it had to have been built by someone or something. Now, thinking the Machine itself is God is venturing into a whole other territory. These are the people who think the Machine caused every environmental disaster in history. The ones who theorize that the Machine is in fact God, trapped within the core of the Earth, having taken a form that our minds can understand. Some even think it's a conspiracy. That we're monitored by aliens who have secretly been ruling humanity since the dawn of time.

>>12268923
While you have not said it directly, I see it as a legitimate point of view that the machine transcends reality to the more spiritually minded populace. While nothing has to be divine, that doesn't mean things can't easily be seen that way. Plenty of people look at the most amazing things you can see and comprehend in the world as divine, even if there is a scientific understanding of them.

>>12268983
>this just in: some people are complete idiots

does that really need to be represented in the game?

>>12269009
Yes, and being an idiot proves that point.

i dunno - shouldn't there be some form of living orgamism adapted to live in the machine?

Fuck man, I remember when this was first big. It's good shit.

>>12269506

I think it's better to keep, on the whole, the Machine sterile and lifeless. It has, after all, been sealed away for centuries or millenia or more, the Engineers should be the only apparently "living" things going. That said, I'm all for isolated pockets of life. Wild animals wandering in and establishing minor ecosystems, maybe even old Delvers who went too deep and went native.

But the idea of age brings up another question. Has the Machine ever been found before? History's full of myths about technological wonders far beyond their age, Atlantis springs to mind at first. Who's to say that someone didn't find the Machine before? But then, why did they seal it back up again and do their best to expunge it from history?

>>12269506
Brilliant.

Maybe have it that the Cogs and whatnots are coated in a strange varnish-like bacterial slime that appears to function as lubricant as well as protection against oxygenation. Bacteria dies almost immeaditley upon being scooped off machine, is nonreactive and useless for biological warfare. Someone FINALLY manages to analyse one under electron microscope (would say genetic analysis but this is supposed to be 60's-70's i think) >bacteria are of a form completely different to earth bacteria.
>appear to have rudimentary hive mind 'telepathy' going on.

I wouldn't make it a big part but it would be a nice layer of mystery.

>>12269595
Perhaps the machine expunged the humans from it in an organized attempt to eradicate life beneath the surface to keep the machine running?

bump!

>>12269506
I imagined human beings that the Engineers got to. The Engineers fix problems with the machine. Sometimes that means removing a problem, sometimes that means fixing a broken system with whatever is available.

>gulinno Continued
YES, GULINNO! CONTINUE!

Hey, this is still here, sweet!

>>12269700
See, this is another of those points we were discussing back then. It seemed to start leaning toward Engineers not being hostile, but rather being very simple. There's the Machine, and then there's everything else. Everything else shouldn't be in the Machine. Their job is to get rid of everything else.

Granted, they couldn't possibly get rid of everything, and it probably takes them a while, but the general idea is that they view organic life as foreign particles that can mess with the parts of the Machine.

Of course, this isn't necessarily the case unless you get too close to vital parts of the Machine, so I guess that could work. Especially if it becomes a mystery how they even survived inside such a hostile environment.

>There are whispers that Hitler is fostering a growing obsessions with the Machine, and that he has already sent specialist teams into it.

HIDDEN NAZIS IN THE MACHINE
GONE INSANE

Did some rough drafts on the fluff for Engineers, just to have it on paper rather than inside my head.

The Engineers
The Engineers (sometimes Little Engineers, but the name never seemed to catch on) is the name given to the autonomous self-repair devices inside the Machine. Each one is different in appearance, function and demeanor, but they all have one thing in common. They all keep the Machine ticking. They weld, they clean, they reattach parts that have come loose and so on and so on. Hence the name Engineers.

The Engineers seem to be the only parts of the Machine that actually react to the presence of humans. This reaction is quite unpredictable, however, and delvers are advised to stay as far away from Engineers as possible. While not hostile by nature, they have a tendency to view any foreign object venturing too close to certain parts of the Machine as a hazard, and will attempt to remove it, usually with fatal results for the delver.

Despite the obvious danger the Engineers pose, UNSERC regulations forbid the destruction of one in all but the most extreme circumstances. The reasoning behind it is simple. The Engineers repair the Machine. We have no idea whether it could produce more of them or not. If we destroy them all and something breaks down, it could have catastrophic consequences for the Machine, the planet and humanity. This doesn't mean all delvers are reluctant to destroy Engineers, however. Taking them out without UNSERC finding out has become something of a speciality among the more gung-ho delvers.

>>12273835
As mentioned earlier, Engineers can take many different shapes. Some are little more than welding torches riding around on a complicated rail system, some are tracked vehicles blowing steam everywhere, and some are even weirder. Delvers returning from the deep parts of the Machine occasionally speak of giant mechanized dragons belching fire and acid, but these kinds of talks are generally considered an early sign of deep madness. After all, for what purpose would the Machine need firebreathing monstrosities?

>>12273821
This was basically the idea. Well, that or the Nazis left behind some tech of their own. Maybe you find parts of it incorporated into the Machine. Maybe there's no trace of them apart from notes left behind by frightened scientists or SS officers.

It's all good.

I still like the idea of a penal colony inside the machine, sending out delvers of their own. It's basically a substitute for the death penalty. People sent there can only redeem themselves by bringing back a new artifact. Nothing to lose, everything to hain, no moral qualms at all, the perfect delver.

>>12273909
Aside that they might completely disregard protocol and risk reality for an artifact?

>>12273909
The issue with this is that I'm imagining delvers as being thoroughly screened before being sent down into the Machine. Background checks, psychological profiles, the lot. You can't risk having someone go crazy inside the Machine, potentially wrecking it, or even attacking other delvers. Not to mention the risk of theft.

There's also the fact that as an offshoot of the UN, UNSERC probably would at least have some kind of respect for basic human rights.

This doesn't rule out that less scrupulous nations with access to an "emergency hatch" couldn't send convicts down there. However, the odds of it being an official programme is incredibly unlikely.

>>12273983
So there is the possibility for a single individual to destroy, or even damage a machine of that size? I sincerely doubt that, but I'll just use the elements I like.

>>12273999
Thing is you don't know what breaking a part of it might do.

All right, feel I should toss in my own hat into the ring here, possibly.

What if World War 2 was first started over the rumor that someone had found an "emergency" entrance to the machine in Poland, or another nation? Hitler goes nuts for it, and instead of the Holocaust, spends manpower desperately trying to find this entrance, which is just a hoax.

The Cold War's proxy conflicts(Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Afghanistan, or possibly others) are fought over possible entrances to the Machine.

>>12273999
Probably not. But you never know, and it's not like people like to take risks with what may very well be the single thing keeping us all alive. There's also the fact that multiple people may very well cause damage to the Machine. Destruction is virtually impossible, but damage is a real possibility.

>>12274039
This I like. I really like it. I was also thinking about the idea of proxy expeditions as a possibility.

The entrances should mostly be rumours, though. If there are literally one of them in every single country, they just become too common. There's also the fact that UNSERC has been given complete authority over entrances to the Machine, so any secret entrances would need to remain secret.

Anyway, hammered out a bit about deep madness. Probably will see some change in the future, but it's a rough draft at the very least.

Deep Madness
A psychological phenomenon that seems to affect delvers who have spent an extended amount of time inside the Machine. The non-stop clanking, hissing, buzzing, grinding and pounding of the Machine seems to have a peculiar effect on the human psyche. Not only does it make sleep difficult, but it also reminds delvers that death can be just around the corner.

The official explanation is very simple. Delvers experience immense stress while inside the Machine, both from the danger they're exposing themselves to and from the lack of sleep. This coupled with the isolation of being days away from the nearest help and only having sporadic contact with people outside of the expedition serves to enhance the stress to levels that causes a mental breakdown in certain individuals.

The unofficial explanation is far more sinister. Deep mad delvers claim that the Machine is trying to communicate with them. It speaks to the delvers and tries to tell them what it is and why it is there. Why they are there. This is of course not taken seriously by most people, but nevertheless there are delvers who could swear that the rhythmic pounding of a piston almost started to sound like some kind of code after a while.

>>12274082

This also creates possibly ideas for a party. You're a perfectly legal party, and no one' supposed to be in your sector...suddenly...

THE FUCK! There's some guys speaking Russian or Chinese! They're not supposed to be here.

As for proxy wars over secret entrances...well, you can just say that it's an ideological thing. Say a secret entrance is discovered in, say...Korea. The Soviets back a communist uprising there, and the Americans catch wind of it. They don't want the Commies having access to their own entrance, so they send in the army to keep the "domino effect" from taking place.

>>12274100
The effects of deep madness are very much real, however. UNSERC has put together a list of the most common symptoms to allow expeditions to detect them early on and take countermeasures. The first usually consists of vivid nightmares, usually connected to the Machine somehow. There are reports of delvers dreaming about drowning in motor oil, being ground between two cogs over and over again without dying, or ripping open their own flesh only to see their internal organs have all been replaced with machinery. The second sign is actually more of a combination of behavioural patterns. Increased irritability, restlessness, irrational frustration with everyday objects, and extreme distrust of other people. This is generally considered the point where action should be taken to prevent further mental deterioration, as it is something of a turning point. The deep mad delver's behaviour will get increasingly irrational, with nearly suicidal willingness to push forward being a common trait observed in those suffering from advanced deep madness. Eventually, the deep mad reaches what is referred to as the critical point. The deep mad delver goes completely insane, posing a danger to both himself and others. Some willingly throw themselves into grinding gears or pounding pistons so they can be "part of the Machine", and yet others are so overcome with paranoia they kill their entire expedition in their sleep.

>>12274107
Needless to say, UNSERC takes every precaution to make sure the worst doesn't happen. Delvers are educated on the most common signs of deep madness, its effect on the mind, and how to best combat it. The thorough psychological tests performed as a part of the screening process for new delvers also seek to weed out those deemed especially susceptible to deep madness. It is not uncommon for delving expeditions to be accompanied by a trained psychiatrist to monitor the mental health of those involved. This becomes increasingly rare the deeper the goal of the expedition is, however.

>>12274103
This could also be a great source of "standard" combat, since any people who are there illegally obviously don't want their presence known and the entrance taken from them.

>>12274128

Also, both sides of the Cold War would of course be constantly boasting about their various advancements they've made in Machine understanding.

And another thought: Nuclear weapons were never developed in World War 2. America fought Japan to a surrender on the home islands bravely. There is no idea of mutually assured destruction now, but the threat of Machine access being lost keeping any side from declaring war openly.

I don't think the Nazi thing is being exploited enough.

The Third Reich took the lead in exploring this thing while the rest of the world languished in the Great Depression. Superior Machine-derived technology powered the Nazi war machine. Much of the Nazis' most loyal population and industrial base was moved deep underground to protect it from Allied bombers. When the Allies met the Soviets at the Elbe, it was far from the final triumph over National Socialism - the Nazis fled deeper and deeper into the Machine, with their greatest scientists, and discovered countless miraculous technologies from their reverse engineering of the Machine.

Believing that the Nazis would eventually starve to death in the barren caverns beneath the surface, the victorious allies did not bother to pursue, instead starting the Cold War in earnest. The deep-delving agents of the CIA (Center Intelligence Agency) and KGB (Surface Security Committee) eventually discovered, to their horror, that Hitler and his murderers were not only alive in the Earth's core, but developing technologies far beyond American and Soviet understanding.

1/2

In 1969, rather than the world marveling at an American moon landing, it was horrified by the emergence of pale, blond, blue-eyed, German-speaking cyborgs out of a clandestine government facility in the Nevada desert, where they launched a massive nuclear-powered rocket into the sky, headed off into the darkness of space on an unfathomable mission.

Hitler's manic face once again was broadcast live on every television network. American troops were immediately recalled from Korea and Vietnam and sent down into the impossible machine to fight an impossible enemy. Troops from all over the Warsaw Pact streamed down into the earth through the Soviet-controlled Polish entrance.

Few, if any of these men are expected to return, but their sacrifice might give the people of the surface enough information and enough time to deal with "our noisy neighbors downstairs," as one British prime minister called them.

2/2

>>12274205
It's definitely in the vein of what I was looking for. However, the question becomes why open warfare between the Soviets and Americans hasn't broken out to ensure Machine access. There would definitely need to be some kind of balancing factor in place to discourage open conflict between the two.

July 20, 1969
American astronauts land on the moon.
They discover an long shaft going down into the crust. They were unable to explore more than a few feet due to being unprepared for caving.
The discovery shocks the world science community and the race to the moon is given a new vigor.

Later expeditions discover that the moon is a hollow sphere. The empty cavity seems to be similar to the one on Earth but it does not contain a Machine. It is unknown how the moon maintains it's gravity with so much mass missing.

There are no more manned moon missions after 1975.

>>12274272
>>12274281
This is definitely a possibility (and a cool one at that), and sort of why I included that bit of fluff in the first place. While it's not how I personally envision the game, I'm not out to pigeonhole anyone into playing it the way I want. Nazi cyborgs inside the core of the Earth is an awesome idea for a more pulp-style game. Incidentally, this is also why I'm a bit reluctant to tie myself to a system. The setting just has potential to be used in so many ways.

I definitely like the idea of the German war machine being largely thanks to the Machine, though. That bit will almost certainly be squeezed in. It would definitely make taking the Cold War into the Machine a priority, since it has obvious military applications.

This is simply magical. OP I tip my hat to you.

>>12274284

Perhaps both sides bluff the idea of superweapons created from the machine? Sure, they may be working on them, but any ones they claim to actually have working are phonies fluffed up.

>>12274364
Why, thank you.

Currently working on parts of the Machine we've mapped out. So far, I've got the Sea (possibly Field or Maze) of Tranquillity, a relatively calm area where the last human outpost is located, Tesla Fields, a death trap consisting of buzzing lightning rods and random electrical surges, and the Waterworks, a giant pumping station theorized to distribute coolant to the rest of the Machine.

>>12274348

Yeah, that kinda turned into a pulp serial Gears of War with Nazis instead of Martians. Just the initial reaction my imagination had. Glad you could use any of it.

One idea I've had since the beginning is that the deeper you go, the weirder it gets. Go deep enough, and even the laws of physics cease to apply. Or rather, change. Gravity switches around, you might enter what is essentially a vacuum with no ill effects, and light might suddenly act as if it was solid. And the Engineers down here are truly monstrous. Giant mechanical centipedes and floating... things that you could have sworn were following you.

Just another idea thrown in there for those who want a more Alice in Wonderland meets Lovecraft type deal.

>>12274502
"But I don't want to go among mad people..."

Don't forget the indispensable giant floating cubes of horror which can be opened to reveal all sorts of cyber/organic nightmares that wish to infect/consume everything else. Nice contrast to the mechanical theme, makes one ponder if the Machine is alive.

I am envisioning this as a 50s or 60s version of Metal Dungeon for the xbox...terrible game but neat idea. I was thinking for artifact discovery...parts and bits that have broken or been discarded could be found in slag heaps, with better junk the deeper you go. Perhaps even finding "Souvenirs", rare scrap that can grant bonuses to the wielder. Maybe Engineers that for totally unknown reasons give crap to the party, like an offering.

OP, I just took the time to read everything in this thread. I love it. It's exactly the sort of thing that my logically-oriented mind often prevents me from seeing; always wanting to make something plausible, something that all the rules of the universe apply to.

It's precisely why something like the Machine or the hollow moon unsettles me. The idea that all that I have studied and analyzed and learned could be rent asunder or may yet already be. Of course, the theme of horror has my mind constantly referring back to SCP-882. That's not a bad thing, mind you.

Also, for your consideration: technological development has largely been driven by wartime exploits. WW2 is basically responsible for the assault rifle and nukes, Cold War for a lot of electrical things we take for granted (also fighter jets, other things), and the military's need to keep up with the computer boom of the 70s/80s/90s basically made the internet come to be.

Large data storage without computers... graargh. Then again, I am but one logically-bound human mind. I'm sure I've missed something, somewhere...

>isments internis
Captcha is eerily accurate...

>>12274686
>Large data storage without computers... graargh. Then again, I am but one logically-bound human mind. I'm sure I've missed something, somewhere...

No, no, no. I definitely want computers. They would be almost mandatory for Machine exploration to make any sense. If anything, that's one of the areas that need to have progressed further than the time period would normally allow. The idea so far is for space travel to never really have taken off, or at least have been significantly delayed, so we wouldn't have orbital satellites and the like.

One of the major issues with the setting is what kind of technology would logically be developed as a result of the Machine existing, without making the entire setting too futuristic.

Currently, I'm thinking something along the lines of Watchmen. Similar, yet different. New sources of power, new metal alloys, possibly new ways of constructing machines with moving parts, but nothing too far off.

So is there a proper cold war, or not? If not, its hard to imagine computer technology keeping pace.

>>12274738
One idea: graphene chipsets and cellulose batteries. Graphene would actually me more like a sheet and cellulose batteries would literally be paper- ultrathin computing devices, even today, are possible. They just need to be marketable...

What's that? You need a computer that won't slow you down as you run from grinding gears and spinning flywheels? With no immediately obvious source of power?

After just coming back from Rush's "Time Machine" tour, (Steampunk themed.) This sounds sweet. I love the idea of people going mad inside the machine. This makes a great setting.

I really like this setting!

it's like steampunk that's actually interesting and magical, not just HURR old england! brass & valves! airships! Shit is rusty, everyone has goggles

On the subject of life in the Machine: why not include chameleon ecosystems? The Engineers have limited sensory abilities, and life evolved to hide from them is a possibility. For example, a kind of lizard that has evolved to look like and function as a gear.

There's also the possibility that Engineers are capable of integrating more things into the Machine, and making it "grow"- including life.

On the Engineers: they themselves might be the greatest source of useful information. While the governments of the world would be publically anti-harm with the Engineers, I imagine they would secretly try and abduct or dissect them for information. See: the Keepers in Mass Effect.

Also, I really recommend creating a proper cut-away diagram of this Earth you're imagining. Is there still a mantle? Or is there just a crust that goes deeper? How do plate tectonics work? Etc.

Honestly, if you want to blend that Cold War feeling with a more modern and UN-dominated setting, then I have an idea.

The Machine is first discovered by the world at large in the 30s. The world wars happen, with possible situations suggest here. But here's the thing: the wars kind of peter off. It's impossible to maintain morale when you know what's ticking- literally, beneath your feet. So, before long, the Earth's surface is dominated by a few superpowers. The Americans, the Russians, the Japanese, the British (with an empire that covers much of their colonial lands, Australia included). Each of these supernations is united by the UN (name subject to change) which is, itself, mostly justified by UNSERC.

So far, as I understand it, you've got a kind of faction system like this.

Humanity = Delvers. Subdivided by national allegiance and personal motivation.

The Machine. Includes the Engineers, who sometimes oppose the Delvers.

And it's basically a battle between those two.

An idea would be to grow >>12274819 's idea about life in the Machine. What about a group of humans who have achieved peaceful coexistent of a sort with the Machine and its Engineers? Basically steampunk native americans. I dunno exactly how that should work or how they would have adapted, but if this machine is a sphere filling the Earth, then there can easily be vast areas of relative peace. The Great Plains could be easily recreated atop an enourmous vat or gear.

These guys can also tie into the idea that civilizations have been discovering and hiding the Machine for millenniums.

It was mentioned that damage to or theft from the Machine could cause huge effects on the surface of the Earth. While that's not a bad thought, the argument that such damage or theft WOULDN'T cause any noticeable effects is easy to make. Basically, the machine is designed with backup systems and damage control on a scale that matches its size. In order to actually cause malfunction, you would have to drop the moon on it, or worse.

Honestly, a million humans could each steal 10 times their weight in supplies from the machine every year, and it would still take centuries before a noticeable dent was made in the Machine's resources.

Although, once that point is reached, what would the Engineers do? And how smart are they, exactly?

>>12274794
You sir, are awesome. This is exactly the kind of technical expertise I lack. Consider this in.

>>12274819
There was actually a suggestion for a device that camouflages beings from the Engineers in a previous thread.

The idea with the Engineers is something I've been thinking about as well. After all, they're most likely to know about how stuff works. However, most of the ones close to the surface, so to speak, would probably be controlled remotely. The quest for these control stations that would theoretically have schematics is one of the most important goals of the delvers.

>>12274852
That's a great idea. Would allow for a bit of revisionist history without actually changing everything and making it hard to relate to the setting.

>>12274907
I dig.

>>12274502
If the Machine is responsible for, say, controlling Earth, or something suitably huge and important (maybe it's the Dark Tower) then that would be quite fitting. Zones of unreality the Machine creates to suit its needs.

Also >>12274881
Those native americans sound a lot like the natives in Etrian Odyssey.

Wait? Y'all niggas telling me you never heard of this setting before?

IT IS THE SHIT. I GENERALLY SPEAKING PLACE THIS UP WITH LOVECRAFTIAN ANTARCTICA AS ONE OF THE TWO BEST OPEN ENDED /TG/ MADE SETTINGS I HAVE EVER WITNESSED.

Ok, getting shit done. a) many of you may be getting the wrong idea. This shit is DARK. Oh sure there are tales of people successfully coexisting with the machine. Said same people are said to have gouged out their eyes with pistons and attached their arms to cog wheels.

And the engineers are sure as hell not something you can sit down with your universal translator and talk with. That they are autonomous only means that they can AIM their crushing blows aimed to remove useless filth from the machine, rather than relying on delvers to walk into them.

Also, computer mapping is a likely application of computers. Given the focus its possible that rather than rely on GPS as ours do, they have some kind of next generation accelerometer which simply records a virtual trail of breadcrumbs that gives delvers a three dimensional map of how they got where they are.

>>12274907
I was actually thinking of the tech used to create those very Engineers, remote-controlled or not. Even the simple ones would be quite interesting to reverse-engineer, so to speak.

>>12274907
Keep forgetting my namefag.

>>12274881
Actually, the factions would be a bit more diverse. The delvers are supposed to be loyal to UNSERC, though whether they actually are is up for question. There are numerous other major powers with interests of their own. Corporate espionage, a quest for national power, or any number of reasons one could have to end up in conflict with UNSERC.

The Machine is mostly neutral, while still remaining the most important adversary. For those of you who have played the excellent vidya Ico, it's sort of the same disposition. The main conflict was between Ico and the Queen, but the main obstacle to overcome was the castle itself. The same thing goes here. The main conflict is the Cold War, but that's just to provide motivation and backdrop, with the Machine being the main obstacle to be overcome.

>>12274922
I don't remember it being quite THAT dark. There was a little more ambiguity than that, if only to enhance the unearthly creepiness of the place. Though god knows it was definately a horror setting.

But I'm glad someone else remembers.

>>12274922
While I respect your dark-emphasized interpretation of the setting, I like my settings a bit lighter.

I'm not Machinefag, though. He might well be more into your version.

>>12274929
>Actually, the factions would be a bit more diverse. The delvers are supposed to be loyal to UNSERC, though whether they actually are is up for question. There are numerous other major powers with interests of their own. Corporate espionage, a quest for national power, or any number of reasons one could have to end up in conflict with UNSERC.

I should have been clearer. What I meant was, "The Delvers" are like the occupation that's relevant to the game. Other factions inform and color the Delvers, but since they're surfacers and Delvers are not, ultimately people will be Delvers first and everything else second. That's how I see it, anyways.

So, is the plan to have it set in 2000+ with the supernation slash semi permanent cold war attitude, then? I picture a bunch of self-interested dynasties each working to master the Machine, with UNSERC acting as an almost entirely serpate entity, controlling access to the Machine, and, in doing so, controlling much of the world's governments.

If the main entrance is still in South America, that would probably be part of the American empire (all these empires totally need names) which would give the Americans their typical homefield advantage.

>>12274936
I'm up for everything. The original idea was actually more in the vein of an adventure game (there was even an idea about albino cyborg Aztecs), but now the focus is a bit more on the horror side.

As said previously, though, the setting is very open. There's a reason I threw in that bit about Nazis in the first place. Those who want to fight cyborg Nazis or meet ancient Aztec tribes inside the Machine should definitely go that route. I'm thinking that the "default" setting will be a bit darker and grittier, and then I'll throw in suggestions for ways to make it more suited for lighter adventure.

Bravo. TG GETS SHIT DONE.
Now we just need to compile it into a volume.

You are miles beneath the surface of the earth on a week long expedition in a land with almost no natural light sources or food, surrounded by a mysterious mess of cogs, gears, pistons, and furnaces, well known to completely rearrange themselves at a collosal scale with some reasonable frequency, the moving parts of which will effortlessly rend you to pieces if you step into their path, and patrolled by alien minded automatons.

I don't see how this was ever not a dark horror. Adding cultists, insane delvers, and arks of previous eras of the earths biosphere to the mix does, if anything, lighten the mood because it takes away from the isolation.

Okay, OP. Here's reality's Earth. Where does this Earth begin and yours end?

>>12274981
Outer core to Inner core sounds good to me.

>>12274970
You're describing a dark horror and then calling it a dark horror.

I'm picturing something more like Disney's Atlantis, but steampunk.

While working on the delver section, I decided to essentially make them astronauts. Highly trained specialists with some scientific knowledge. However, since not everyone may want to play one, I also decided that occasionally they may need specialist help. Just as astronauts bring back samples for study, so do delvers. But recordings and samples aren't always enough. Sometimes you need to send your Einsteins, Teslas and Hawkings down into the Machine for first hand experience. There are also the psychiatrists who sometimes tag along to make sure nobody goes mad. I may also add some sort of military archetype, on the grounds that there are times when military presence may be necessary inside the Machine.

>>12274981
Not entirely decided yet. However, tectonic shifts, volcanoes and the like seem to mean that there should at least be a mantle. Then again, removing the core would still screw just as much with physics, so whatever. Probably somewhere around the outer core, but that's entirely up for debate. Putting it that far in may very well make reaching it way too hard.

Oh well, whatever I go with is going to require suspension of disbelief. Maybe they built a railway to the centre of the Earth.

>>12274984
Like so?

>>12274995
I was thinking more of treasure hunters. Not dumb by any means, but not nessessarily your cream of the crop.

>>12275008
i'd guess. Also.
BLUH

>>12275007
Tectonic shifts and the core's magnetic field are different animals, though. Tectonic shifts are very basic movements as land slides over fluid magma. But magnetic fields can be generated.

I don't know too much about the role the core plays, though.

I just had an idea, and I'm going to try drawing it.

>>12275013
See, that's another thing. They used to be. Before the Houlihan incident, the countries could nominate whoever they wanted, and access was mostly just restricted to how many people each nation was allowed to send. After it, however, a screening process was implemented to prevent any more incidents.

The Sandhoff reform has pushed this even further, as UNSERC attempts to separate delvers from their national ties entirely. The goal is for all delvers to eventually become "citizens" of UNSERC.

If you want to play treasure hunters, you could set the game before the Houlihan incident, when UNSERC were essentially just doormen.

I like the idea of the engineers incorporating life into the machine. If you have seen the episode of Dr. Who "The Girl in the Fireplace" then you could draw on that for some inspiration. Quick synopsis: theres a spaceship that is broken so the engineer robots, lacking the proper mechanical parts to fix the ship, decide that tearing apart the humans and using them as parts is the best way to go about it (think eyes used to replace camera lenses, hearts used to replace power cores)

Okay, so what's going on here is that there are gigantic metal supports rising out of the Machine and connecting with the plates. The mantle is still there to support the recycling of crust.

Basically, there are caves that lead down through the crust to the points where the supports meet the plates. There, the original exploration team found access to the insides of the supports, where the first Engineers traveled, maintaining things.

The first leg of the journey into the Machine is through the long vertical innards of the supports (Beams?) each one very hot due to the magma just outside them.

Like? Hate?

>>12275026
Or, possibly, increase the number of access points? Obviously the UNSERC would control the main one, but I'm thinking about a kind of "pirate's city" somewhere in the world, where anyone can jump into the Machine and almost everyone dies.

It could, in fact, be an oceanic access point, with an artificial island built above it and a sea elevator leading down to the bottom.

>>12275034
From what I've gathered, there are three different moods people are getting out of this. I will name them Adventure, Horror and Terror and try to explain how I envision them.

Adventure: You're the delvers, the best of the best. Whether it be for fame, glory, riches or science, you explore the Great Machine, discovering the secrets of the world. The Egyptians built the pyramids using technology they learned from the Machine. Atlantis was a part of the Machine that later submerged. Expect everything and anything.

Horror: You're the delvers, and your job isn't a walk in the park. The isolation, the danger and the sheer alien nature of it all tears at your mind. Every step you take may very well be your last. Starvation is a very real possibility, and nearest rescue is days away. The default assumption for the setting.

Terror: You're the delvers, and you've just entered hell. The Machine whispers to you when you sleep, and its Engineers want to make you part of it. Expedition members disappear without trace, only to return as mindless drones, slaves to the Machine.

>>12275087
And, of course, it's possible to mix and match these moods to create whatever setting you'd like.

>>12275103
Of course. It's essentially just a way for me to categorize all the ideas and get structure. Machine civilizations go under Adventure, but could easily turn into Adventure-Terror if they turn out to be some kind of Innsmouth culture of proto-Engineers.

>>12275136
MACHINEFAG WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MY GIANT SUPPORTS IDEA

>>12275171
It's definitely interesting. It would also allow for easy access, since you could probably modify vehicles to just travel along them into the Machine. A definite possibility.

So what's to stop the oceans from draining into it? If you have even the slightest crack then they are going to empty. If you have a large pump to put the water back the that's going to play merry hell with tidal patterns.
Either way some sort of rapidly self-sealing ocean floor would probably be a must.

>>12275196
Thank you. I am desperate for justification after creating these terrible images in Paint.NET.

I picture them as looking like a cross between steel girders and sky scrapers. Already mysterious tech for allowing the beams to function in constant rock-melting heat is present in them.

I'm also thinking they'd have some kind of mantle-manipulation tech. Obviously the Machine would be covered in a shell of mysterious alloy to keep the magma out, but since magma currents are an important part of the mantle, would the beams use some kind of current shifting tech to do their work?

>>12275232
Plot. Or in other words, you know, some kind of thick protective shell. We have such vast distances to play with and so much magic technology bullshit to throw around that it will hardly be an issue.

>>12275238
Possibly. I don't like the idea of explicitly stating the Machine's function. I'm also thinking that maybe access to the supports would be accidental, since I'm not entirely sure the Machine should be built in a way that allows people on the surface access on purpose. At the very least, though, this idea goes on the Adventure pile.

It could be that the girder tops need to have open access for some mechanical function. Heat dissipation from the internal spaces of the girders due to their exposure to the mantle, or something.

>>12275298
Oh, did I state the Machine's function? I didn't mean to. The idea was for the supports to be there, doing their thing, but they'd be like the stubby plastic legs on a toaster. Just there to keep things in place, unrelated to the real function of the Machine.

And yeah, access to the Machine would have to be accidental. Some kind of major damage on the crust level.

But really, I'm just trying to figure out how Earth will work without much of its center. If you remove the mantle to make access easier, then you have to basically reinvent or flatout change much of what we know about Earth's structure. Keeping the mantle minimizes the amount of changes that you need to make, but it also makes access to the Machine many times harder.

Just a thought for a faction that works in the background: Machine Administrators.

There are a small number of extremely long-lived Administrators, their base in the heart of the Machine. They are tasked with repairing the Machine and keeping everything in order, but breakdowns in the Machine and faulty Engineers can be extremely dangerous. Engineers can handle routine maintenance, but some problems require Administrator intervention, analysis, and repair. But the Administrators reproduce too slowly; many have been lost to hazards in the Machine. A new method was needed.

Engineers with primtive AIs weren't adaptable enough to handle unexpected hazards in areas where the Machine has broken down. Engineers with advanced AIs acquired strange AI faults. Many of these Engineers eventually went rogue; some became hostile and extremely dangerous, attacking those who caught their attention, stalking them without need for food, nor sleep, nor rest.

Remotely controlled Engineers are also out--remote signals are distorted in the machine. A specially insulated hardline is required to prevent distortion, but aren't a feasible solution for exploring many areas of the Machine.

Enter humanity.

1/2

>>12275342
The exact same issue was raised in an earlier thread, and I seem to remember the solution we came up with back then was for the entrance to be some kind of heat vent disguised as a natural cave. So I guess the easiest thing would be to combine the two ideas.

>>12275487
Humans could provide the disposable manpower the Administrators needed.

A small number of Administrators infiltrated the UN and UNSERC. Maybe they were there from the very beginning, "finding" the first treasures in the Machine, acting as a veteran Delver to new teams, and infiltrating the higher echelons on UNSERC. They worked to establish UNSERC as a stable and semi-independent entity they could influence and control.

Delver teams are used as reconnaisance, sources of intel on Machine hazards, or even destroyers of faulty Engineers. Administrator agents in UNSERC try to steer Delver teams away from sensitive area, and deploy them to problem areas in the Machine. After enough intel on an area is gathered, an Administrator can move in safely to repair problems in the Machine. Either solo, or with a reliable Delver team if the area is still risky.

Haven't quite worked out the fluff for why the Admins look human. It's necessary to infiltrate UNSERC, but are they using disguise tech, are they shapechangers, did they design humans in the first place, or do they have a common origin? Don't know which fits best.

2/2

>>12275487
>>12275518
This goes in the Adventure pile. A great idea where the Machine isn't sinister at all, but in fact needs us.

>>12275545
I tried to leave it open-ended. You can put a pretty sinister spin on it. Depends on the purpose of the Machine, and the attitude of the Admins.

For example: Admin agents pretend to be normal humans and manipulate UNSERC from behind the scenes. They think of humans as mere tools and point them towards dangerous areas. If they die, it doesn't matter, and if they come back then they have useful intel like maps and info on dangers.

Delver team heading to a sensitive area? Admin agent poisons their food supplies. Or he's the guy on the team who "goes crazy" and starts murdering everyone. When you kill him, you notice he isn't quite human, and some of the people back at UNSERC are acting a bit strange....

What if the different tones for the game are different eras?
Early exploration of the machine could be pulpy adventure stuff, but by the time you get to the cold war, the aztecs in the machine are all dead, because the machine is gradually reconfigured to be hostile to explorers. and you get the horror tone.
Maybe the cold war never really stops in this setting, so once you get to the modern world, things are really shitty for the terror tone.
If we go with the idea of the administrators, they could turn gradually nastier over time. They start off helping, but over time replace people with dopplegangers, kill off teams who are too close to discovering something that would endanger the machine in some small way, that kind of thing. They could even start feeding it regular brains to use as computers once shit gets really dark.

Okay, what I really, really need from you are two things. Technology and adversaries. With the basics of the setting down, I feel I should get help with the stuff I'm really bad at.

Technology and science has never really been my thing, so I honestly have no idea what kind of shit a delver would have access to. I know what I would like to have if I were a delver, but I have no idea what is even theoretically possible, or effective. So far, we've got sciency chipsets and batteries allowing for miniaturized computers. I'm also considering some kind of new metal alloy, probably in the vein of teflon. Not particularly high tensile strength, but protects very well against wear and tear. Probably also some advances in robotics and engineering after studying the Machine for so many decades.

As for adversaries, I've chosen to divide them into four basic categories. Engineers, Janitors, Deep Ones and Freaks. Engineers are your basic repair units we've already discussed. Janitors are a specific subset of Engineers designed not to repair or replace, but rather to clean and maintain. Deep Ones are the unimaginatively named monstrous Engineers residing deep within the Machine. Freaks are all the oddball beasties lurking in the Machine. Human/Engineer hybrids, cyborg Nazis, animals having "gone native".

>>12275634
Depends. How advanced are any artifacts found in the Machine, and how well can humans reverse engineer it? You can make any new tech you like, if you let humans reverse engineer a weird Machine artifact.

Or maybe there's a really common artifact in the Machine. Like a weird tool the Engineers use, and Delvers grabbed a bunch of them from a storehouse.

System-wise, I think a perfect system would be Cold City (or Hot War by preference).

In Cold City the players are agents of a multinational task-force policing post-war Berlin and dealing with the occult Twisted Technology left over by the Nazis. It has a load of trust and Agenda mechanics, since each team consists of an agent from each of the major powers, so while they all publicly have the same objective (Keep Berlin safe from Twisted Tech) they also have National Agendas (like "Destroy all traces of Twisted Tech in order to prevent the secrets of the past tainting Germany's recovery" or "Gather as much Twisted Tech as you can to give the motherland an advantage over the capitalist pigs") and Personal Agendas ("Defect to the West", "Acquire cash", "Find out what happened to my brother"). I think following the RPA model of teams with one member from each power in order to retain a balance of power would be the best sort of model for UNSERC co-operation.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ADVOXDWF

>>12275624
It can't really mesh with the horror aspect at least because it goes as far as to imply that the machine might have been made by things resembling people, concieves people, or really that people are anything more than insignificant mites, an infestation of coincidence, crawling over the surface of a machine vaster than they can comprehend.

In the terror aspect, certainly, delvers who have been so afflicted by cog madness that they start seeming sane again and return to the surface would fit this role reasonably well.

>>12275667
Generally I want to keep reverse engineering to a minimum, in order to maintain the mystery of the Machine. Knowing how stuff works takes away a bit of that. Which is why most of the stuff I've suggested was stuff that could be easily observed without understanding its purpose (such as Machine construction having an influence on engineering or new alloys). The rest of the stuff should mostly be things we've invented ourselves.

Off the top of my head, supplies would be important. Especially water, since the unique nature of the Machine means that it would be hard to come by, and dragging around gigantic amounts of water would be the kind of thing that got you killed. Food is much easier, since we have all kinds of freeze-dried rations and whatnot that don't take up much space.

>>12275686
That sounds like a perfect fit. I'll be sure to check it out once I begin working on the mechanics of it all.

>>12275667
The tech in the machine varies vastly in terms of how advanced in nature it is, but even things like basic clockwork seem to made from alloys that should have worn down from friction centuries ago etc. Whilst there ARE some areas of very high level tech inside the machine, generally they are large assemblies that could merely be observed, not carted back home.

Hence why machinefag has some trouble with ideas, the jellyfish artifact equivalent within the machine is probably a discarded cog made out of something that could jump materials engineering decades in a single bound.
However, finding something more advanced than that like say a subspace signal conduit or a hadron decollimator or innumerable other technobabble objects in PORTABLE SIZE suggests you are far enough into the machine that escape is statistically unlikely, and furthermore you'll probably have engineers of undocumented size and viciousness dogging your steps the entire way out trying to get it back.

Really, an entire expedition would be spent solely on obtaining a single artifact of that kind of important. OBSERVATIONS AND MEASUREMENTS however, are less likely to attract ire, and furthermore can be made of the less compact devices in safer regions of the machine.

>hundred strultes
Yes, greedy delvers will be chased by a hundred strultes.

What if the Machine basically writes the happenings in reality or the world above? As history happens, the machine grows and expands constructing parts that reach towards the surface.

People were never meant to enter into it's depths. Each time a person goes into the machine, a little more of it goes wrong. So the machine constructs something that hunts down each person that goes in. It can get more and more sophisticated as the machine realizes what is effective and what isn't.

How are you managing gravity inside the core? I say it should be no gravity whatsoever, have people walking around with magnetic boots and oxygen tanks.

>>12275747
By the time gravity starts to lessen significant due to depth, you have bigger problems.

Like being crushed to death by artificial gravity.

That said in principle a delver team could penetrate to a level with actual near zero gravity. Its just that you'd be going deeper than any recorded surviving expedition.

Honestly having reasonably forgiving fall damage is about the only concession that needs to be made for the early and mid levels. And that works fine with the horror and terror settings when you are now separated from your group even if you DID just manage to survive that 25 metre fall without breaking your legs.

>>12275087
>the sheer alien nature of it all tears at your mind
>The Machine whispers to you when you sleep, and its Engineers want to make you part of it
You lost me. First it was a giant inner world that is high-tech but runs on cogs, pistons, and steam...but now the Machine is CoC-style mindwarping, and the Engineers are clockwork Borg?

>>12275789
Different versions of the setting.
Horror is default, isolation horror. Be afraid of what you don't know.
Adventure has extra content tossed in to make in brighter and more indiana jonesey and/or Atlantisey.
Terror has extra content tossed in to make it more like CoC and/or Delta green.

I have an idea that I think would work well regarding the structure of the machine, namely, that it should have an approximately fractal structure. The area that humans have reached is merely a region that has empty spaces that can accommodate human size. Within that region, there are smaller areas that have smaller parts, like those tiny gears you might see in a small watch. If you venture farther, you might stumble across regions with very large spaces and parts, with pistons and gears the size of buildings. Of course, the engineers scale up as well.

A side-effect of this is that it's not really possible to study machine artifacts to their smallest scale, because examining any part you retrieve under a microscope only reveals more, smaller parts. All you can hope to do is try and make a poor substitute with human technology.

See the pic. Assume that the human spaces are one of the very small tetrahedra, whereas beyond the known machine there are the very big tetrahedra. Imagine a team of delvers going through a small shaft or walkway and finding themselves in a much larger region, then running into a much larger engineer. It looks at them with a giant lens, which narrows like an old-timey camera shutter. Does it just kill them or might it go on its way?

>>12275789

Not necessarily, but you never know what crazy ideas people come up with when they've been down there for too long.

Make parts of the Machine organic. Steam engines, metal and stone is too little. You need a basis for life and organic horrors.

But maybe that's just me. I think robots taking care of giant steam engines is more silly than horrifying. Cheerful ads for Delverstiks don't help.

>>12275856
That's really, really cool. I'm totally stealing that idea.

>>12275918
Organic horrors are mostly Terror material, as that deals with directly horrific situations, such as body horror or the Machine being malevolent in nature rather than a dead hunk of metal. Basically, you have your human/Engineer hybrids, parts where humans have been incorporated into the Machine, and so on. A more Lovecraftian version of the setting, if you will.

Going deep into the middle of the earth presents a heat problem (I've only skimmed and read some of this thread).

The simplest solution is that the machine solves this by keeping a good atmosphere for itself (since it would have these heat problems as well). So, the machine provides cooling for itself, and the Delvers conveniently can enter because of it.

This might function as a device to drive part of a campaign. The engineers could go remanaging the cooling, to effectively burn and melt the delve "pollution" in the area. Deeper in the earth, the stronger and more effective this becomes.

Liquid cooling also presents its own hazards (there will have to be hot liquids running back to some source... (the oceans?) for cooling.

The Machine
The vast underground machine located at the centre of the planet is simply referred to as the Machine, or occasionally the Great Machine. It's incredibly vast in size, theorized to be at least the size of the entire North American continent, probably considerably larger. While we don't know much about how, why or by who it was built, decades of study have provided several insights into the Machine.

We know it's been here incredibly long. Most of it is speculation, but we're fairly certain it's been here longer than the human race, at the very least. If nothing else, logic dictates that if any human civilization undertook such a project, there would be records of it. We also know it's self-sufficient. We've paid close attention to any of the known entrances, and we've seen no trace of any contact with the surface by any part of the Machine, meaning it must get everything it needs from within the core.

There's no such thing as a standard appearance for the Machine. While the most well-known parts of it are powered by clockwork and steam, this is far from the only type of technology used in its construction. Vast fields of lightning rods, mazes of pipes filled with some kind of strange fluid, and bubbles of liquid metal floating suspended in magnetic fields are all phenomena that have been encountered by delvers.

>>12276007
Despite having sent expeditions into the Machine for several decades, very little of it has been mapped out. While we know for a fact that the Nazis mapped out parts of the Machine during World War II, most of those documents were destroyed during the fall of Berlin, and we had to start all over again.

We have mapped out several areas of the Machine, parts that seem to remain somewhat static, while the rest of the Machine tends to twist, warp and change over time.

The Maze of Tranquillity is the furthest human outpost in the Machine. It's a relatively empty area with few moving parts that is rarely visited by Engineers. This is also what most of humanity think of when they think of the Machine. Giant cogs, hissing steam vents, steam-powered pistons and red-hot furnaces.

The Tesla Fields are one of the deadliest known areas of the Machine. The air sizzles with static electricity making every hair stand on end, and there's a constant buzzing reminding delvers that a single wrong turn could end with a fatal electrocution. Electricity arcs between lightning rods, creating impassable barriers.

The Waterworks is a pumping station of some kind, that much we know. It's one of the easiest parts of the Machine for us humans to understand, yet also one of the most strange. It consists of an uncountable number of pipes criss-crossing one another to form a dense maze. The sound of liquid being pumped through the pipes can be heard, but the pipes are completely opaque and neither hot nor cold to the touch, so we have no idea what that is actually being pumped through them. Some theories include that the Waterworks are pumping coolant into the Machine, or possibly whatever fuels it.

>>12275918
Why organic?

Why not just... living metal?

>hurrr necrons

But seriously, a multi-cellar lifeform based on metal instead of carbons.

Ignore the science behind it, it's fucking super-advanced fuckshit technology. Third law motherfucker.

here's a thought, what if the Machine is only the innermost region of the machine? The earth's mantle and tectonic plates make up a fluid-solid-kinematic computer, while the entirety of the earth's ecosystem is another layer of processing. The entirety of human history has been simply the ticking of the latest addition to the machine, and we are simply part of it. This would explain why the Engineers aren't initially hostile, since we're part of the machine and thus have no reason not to be there. However, as people start studying the Machine, taking samples, and wrecking shit, they start to see us as malfunctioning hardware that needs to be "fixed," presumably through death or some more sinister fashion

Of course, humanity has no idea of any of this.

A nice twist would be that the Machine goes on.

There is no core.

You simply go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and is that an exit?

Suddenly, your team is looking up to a red sky, with pink moons passing by, in the middle of a purple "pine" forest.

>>12275487
>>12275518

perhaps this is where the Dero/Tero story comes from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sharpe_Shaver

Bump.

>>12275856

>Fractal machines

Video related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E91yxk_pT_A

>>12276628

bump

Sounds good to me.

What if there was a neutron star at the core of the earth? The earth basically orbits around it, explaining rotation, the machine is powered by it, and that's why there's gravity. Though personally I would prefer it to be zero gravity, because jumping down moving gears thousands of feet doesn't seem like a good way to get around.

>>12281506
Maybe have the machine just keep going... Forever.