So, what do we have so far:
- Strength, Intelligence (Perhaps "Mind" and divided into Intelligence and Charisma), Constitution (Perhaps divided into Body, Vitality, Toughness), Dexterity and Perception as stats
- in-game upgrades and cyborgisation as the way of improving the stats
- 'races' differentiated and created by adding some things to the baseline stats in the beginning

Races have different number of "slots" for modifications, depending on Body score. Safeguard have least bonus slots, but have access to better mods as they advance. Humans have middle-amount. Silicon Creatures have most.

Gunfighting system includes a "where" chart and roll (arms, legs, head, torso), with a called shot system providing a bonus to hit specific part but penalty to hit at all.

Due to vastness of city, travelers encounter...

Environment hazards:
- electric surges and storms
- gravitional anomalies
- massive structure strain and escalating collapse
- builders remodeling the area
- change of the atmosphere components
- node malfunction
- silicon lifeforms invasion
- random incoming space-station teleports in

Some proposed skills:

Computer Use (Including hacking and the like)
Engineering (building, repairing, and understanding machines)
Medicine (Self explanatory)
Marksmanship (Use of firearms)
Close Combat (Unarmed, melee weapons)
Climb
Swim
Bluff
Track
Knowledge: Safeguard, Builders, Silicon Life, Local, The City

Weapon ideas

Bolt Gun - Rifle used by Electrofishers
Giant Boomarang - Used by Bio-Electric Corporation guard
Double Beam Rifle - Used by Alternate!Cibo
Shotgun - Used by Killy when separated from GBE
Ballistic Pistol - See above
Machete, Chain, Nunchaku - used by Laborers
GBE - Very high level firearm, powerful recoil.
Safeguard sword - Melee counterpart to GBE.
Hinged Sword - Sword used by Ivy
Broadsword - Used by Seu

3rd poster from 1st thread here.

Not sure if this ever got touched on, but I had assumed that the Gravity Generator thingy was 1) not unique, so there would be lots scattered around the megastructure. 2) based on the same tech as the GBE 3) provided a great way for the rules of physics to be broken, especially in an 'unlimited energy to work with' way. As such, the megastructure could actually contain far, far more mass than the solar system originally contained - running short on metal, just use energy>mass conversion and make some more, with the massive energy required extracted from the galactic rotation or some shit.

Also, the massive walls that seemed impenatrable to everything except the GBE cannot let gravity get through - if they did, the inside of the megastructure would have extremely odd gravity, often at murderous levels. This would be fine for silicon life and safeguard, but I imagine humans would be less cool with it. (squats, whot whot?)

>>10703826
I always figured there was enough space between "levels" and various FUCK HUEG cysts in The City for gravity to be earth-normal, and otherwise everyone is sufficiently modified to cope with any increased gravity. Toha Heavy Industries also had gravity-manipulation technology, so I think any increased/decreased gravity areas would be a special case.

As for where the extra matter from the city comes, I think it's partially mined from outer space and partially mined from alternate universes.

>>10703826
Sorry, misread your post a bit.

I agree that gravity should be pretty stable as a rule, but any anomalous areas would be useful for gameplay as danger zones.

This occurred to me last night after the last thread:

Safeguard characters could have an ability to summon exterminators at higher levels, provided they follow Safeguard regulations (or Net-Sphere regulations if they're "Temporary Safeguards" such as Dohmo and Ico). These types of characters who defy such regulations lose powers, but retain any modifications they already have and can advance as other characters do.

>>10703895
If everything in the solar system is used, there ARE other solar systems. There could be hordes of builders raiding all nearby solar systems for all usable materials (and making some alien civilizations terribly unhappy)

On topic- are we going to be allowing people to play as safeguard and silicon life? I thought we had decided we weren't going to do that in first thread. Not that I really mind, but how would you justify a party where someone is playing safeguard and someone else is playing silicon life? I suppose if the party was all safeguard, or all silicon life, there would be no problem, but both of those groups tend to just kill everyone they meet from the other factions.

>>10704223
There could be some "rogue" tribes of Silicon Life that aren't quite so hostile to regular humans (see "The Observer" in Vol 9, or the Dry Men in Vol 2).

As for Safeguard, I suppose there could be agents such as Dohmo who aren't so "KILL ALL HUMANS (without net terminal genes)", but that's iffy.

Of course, playing as a Silicon Creature would provoke hostility from human settlements depending on their relationship with Silicon Life.

>>10704223
>Pandora's status in Blame!-verse:
>Lost. Presumed eaten by builders.

>>10704345
This is now canon as far as I'm concerned.

Just a quick question regarding the human population:

How will something as utterly fluky as net-terminal genes be handled?

I mean, yeah, pre-mutation genes are astronomically rare, but it appears a good chunk of the human population has muted versions of these same genes; resulting in (potentially screwed up) hud interfaces overlaying their eyesight and other potential benefits and detriments.

Early on there was some concern about incorporating BioMega into the game.

While I think we should stick to The City for the setting, Drones could show up as another enemy and we could include elements from the series such as motorcycles, AI partners, etc. The reverse imaging polymer and DRF should be left out, though. For Toha, perhaps it can have multiple facilities throughout the city and be something of a power, or similar corporate entities could produce Artificial Human Agents.

>>10704994
I don't think the HUDs were from Net Terminal Genes but were just general modifications, perhaps complimentary to NTGs. I think access to the Net requires a combination of NTGs and stable "human" DNA from before The Disaster, which were taken care of by some virus released by the Silicon Creatures' predecessors.

>>10705067

See, I got the impression from the first volume that the HUD was an indicator of NTG because Killy does directly ask a couple of people if they can see words in their eyes on the occasions where he doesn't directly ask them if they have the genes.

And it seemed pretty clear also that the NTG themselves are prone to changing fairly rapidly, that girl he brings that kid to at the start seemes extatic that it's only mutated on a few specific sequences.

>>10705167
I think that bit was the "Human DNA" portion. Corrupted NTGs could also account for the HUDs, I suppose.

Not sure how we incorporate this into gameplay though. Perhaps scientist characters can find Gene Samples over time and eventually synthesize NTGs and original human DNA to access the Net Sphere without attracted the Safeguard.

>>10705167
So not only are NTG rare. They are also changing extremely fast.

>>10705320
Or rather, they don't last long.

We could use "stabilized" NTGs as a sort of "Wish" mechanic. Hard to get, but can save your ass or do something fuck-awesome. Very limited quantity and a pain in the ass to get to avoid balance issues.

Shameless bump.

>>10704223

Silicon life and the scattered humans in the City are not necessarily hostile to each other. Some silicon life obviously really hates humans but, as was pointed out before, they aren't all chaotic evil, so groups with silicon life and humans together are not unimaginable. Safeguard however... I suppose you could have games set up where all players play safeguard, and go on specific mission for safeguard, but Safeguard agents do not roam around the City without purpose and they do not cooperate with humans who lack net terminal genes and ESPECIALLY not silicon life.

>>10706388
Agreed. It really would not make any kind of sense to have Safeguard PCs working with non-Safeguard PCs. Safeguard doesn't cooperate. Ever. Subjugate, exterminate, yes. Cooperate, no.

>>10706459

Sanakan, Killy, and Dhomochevsky are all Special Safeguards. (Or at least directly related to them.) Iko probably was at one point, but is disembodied.

>>10706502
This is workable. We could throw in some fluff about the Net Sphere having no issues with the more benign silicon lifeforms such as the Dry Men or other tribes.

Safeguard characters should serve as antagonists except when the group is playing a Safeguard team.

Looks like this thread is back on track.

Archived here:
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/10703489/

Is "Intelligence" really necessary? Cibo wasn't always the sharpest, most analytical SCIENCE person, but god damn it she could hack! Wouldn't it be best to keep it as various skills instead, and let the abilities stay purely physical?

>>10706502

But they are all exceptions, not the rule. Killy wasn't really operating under safeguards authority, so I'm not sure he counts. Dhomochevsky's special orders were in regards to very unique circumstances. Wasn't Sanakan also taking part in the purging of locals at first, or was that someone else? I don't think there is enough of a precedence to justify having Safeguard cooperating with non-Safeguard PCs. It just wouldn't make since with the fluff.

>>10706637
A person can be trained in a skill but they aren't necessarily intelligent otherwise. Higher intelligence would allow one to more rapidly improve their skills and have bonuses on skill checks due to improvisation and natural aptitude.

>>10706646
I agree. Special Safeguards are just that, special, and Dhomo had probably been disconnected from the Conversion Tower for so long that so that he could override some of his protocol.

>>10706646
Agents like Killy, Dohmo, and late-Sanakan worked for the Net-Sphere Authority rather than the Safeguard.

>>10706667
Why not make it a Character Creation only Feat then? Fast Learner or something.
Ah, forget it, this has probably been discussed already.

>>10706688

Fuck. Totally forgot about them. How are they going to fit into things? Perhaps at mid to high levels characters can chose to accept jobs from the authority? I suspect they would often be aspects of the game that drive the plot forward.

>>10706728
It hasn't, actually.

I'm not sure if we've really settled on character creation yet. We've thrown around ideas about freeform advancement through improving skills and using cybernetics to improve base stats and provide special abilities and a more traditional class system.

>>10706763
The Authority could just be another faction that characters could choose to work with if they're not just doing random adventuring, I suppose. Hell, maybe the game could take place in portions of the net-sphere that other factions don't have as much influence in, which could allow organizations like the Safeguard to rely on non-traditional methods.

>>10706763
Could authority agents be PCs?

>>10706802
Net-Agents as an equivalent to "Safeguard" character, yes.

Let's keep in mind that the Authority is rather impotent in base reality, which is why things are as fucked up as they are. They'd be more about providing intelligence and giving orders than providing any material help.

>>10706778
I think that cybernetics and more organical enchancements would be great for raising stats. No "Level Up, gain more strength!". Unless you're working for the Authority or so, and they decide to upgrade you. Like what happened to Killy a few times.

Still, I think it should be... y'know, very free, but logical. Hack a lot, gain Hacking experience, which raises your chances of succeeding when hacking, and speeds the process up. And when you reach certain points, you get to choose a Hacking feat which provides other more specialized benefits.

>>10706802

If you're asking if PCs can start as Authority agents, the I would have to say no. All Authority agents we've seen tend to be armed with GBEs and are crazy durable.

If you're asking if PCs can become Authority agents later in the game... Maybe? I don't see any reason to believe the Authority would not be willing to "hire" PCs on a more permanent basis, there's not that much info on them so it isn't impossible. Maybe working for Authority would be one of the ways PCs could gain access to higher level equipment and augmentations?

>>10706867
In short, you level up in various fields, and not as an overall character. You can be a Level 14 Hacker but still remain a Level 3 Fighter.

>>10706867
I was thinking the same thing. As a setting, in doesn't make much sense for people to spontaneously become stronger, smarter, faster, etc, just because they go out and adventure. While this can happen to some extent, it can only go so far.

Maybe there's a certain cap on improving stats through "level up" alone and after that modifications are required? Or should we keep more mundane improvements too insignificant to deal with and manifest simply in skill improvement?

To be honest, i think a game like this doesn't really need classes. Races\Starting templates is a big YES, because there is a lot of variation out there, but once you have that, most of the skills should be able to be accessed by any character, in one way or another.

But I generally dislike games with class systems.

So we're in agreement about avoiding a fixed class system then?

>>10706932
I agree to this.

>>10706914
Class system really wouldn't make much sense for the setting anyways. There really wouldn't be any reason someone who specializes in hacking and mechanics couldn't also decide to pick up some gun skills. Obviously you're character would be more suited to certain tasks later on in the game, but that would be a result of what augments you chose and how you distributed skill points.

>>10706983
I disagree with the "distribute skill points" part. See >>10706904
Level up as a Hacker and improve your Hacking rolls, maybe get a Hacking feat such as Greater Insight into Safeguard Firewall Technology. Euh, the name needs a little work, but... Stuff like that.

>>10707023
Sounds like a solid concept. How will we do this mechanically though? Keep a chart of skill experience and the GM awards points based on DC and success?

>>10707065
Yes. Small Skill numbers though. No "1486993 Hacking skill experience gain". A simple chart is all that's needed. And a list of Feats (and Advanced feats that unlock based on your Normal feats taken) that you get to choose from at certain points. HACKING feats for leveling the HACKING skill.

>>10707154
And during character creation, players can choose from "packages" for modifications and skill-sets to give them a head start in some skills and diversify the party.

>>10707205
Like Morrowind Specializations? Choose Melee, Magic or Stealth for a +5 Bonus in those skills and to level up more quickly with them?
Combat, Hacking and Technology? Fighting. Hacking and controlling data-based enemies. Making stuff out from scrap to provide repairs, augmentations and new equipment.

>>10707350
Combat skills revolve around melee weapons and firearms.

Hacking and Science for handling machines, hacking into systems, taking over Builders and similar machines, opening doors, repairing machines, building machines, etc.

>>10707423
Combat, Hacking and Science, then. As a Combat character you can learn how to hack, but you will gain Combat experience faster.
It can be explained with background and character mentality.

>>10707475
These specializations really stem from what modifications the characters are equipped with.

>>10707496
For Android/Cyborg characters maybe, whose mindset can be changed through SCIENCE or HACKING. But for human characters or characters with biological brains? Not so.

Depending on which race the player chooses, they will have a certain number of slots and are allowed to choose from some "starter" mods, such as targeting computers, hacking modules, synthetic muscles, implanted weapons, etc.

This way players can go for straight-forward purist characters if they so choose or find a middle ground, like a character who uses guns and also hacks, or an engineering character who beats people's heads in.

Not exactly related to the topic at hand, but I wanted to post this to give people an idea of just how big the City is. The tiny orange dot in the very center is the sun. The largest sphere is the super-giant star Betelgeuse, and the ring just beyond that is Jupiter's orbit. The City reaches to just beyond Jupiter's orbit. You could literally fit several million suns inside this thing. Actually looking at this, the City has quite possibly consumed the mass of dozens of entire star systems (suns included) to get enough mass for something this large, and those gravity furnaces must produce fuck-tons of power to keep this thing from just collapsing into a very large black hole. Yes, Pandora was quite likely eaten by builders, along with the gas giant it orbits, and the entire Alpha Centauri star system.

>>10707573
WE ARE THE BUILDERS

WE REQUIRE THIS "UNOBTANIUM"

OM NOM NOM

>>10707573
Which is why I'm against the use of Blame! characters. The likelyhood of meeting them are... miniscule. Even if you're actively chasing them it could take thousands of years to catch up to them.

>>10707630
I think we all agree on that. The Safeguard, the Silicon Creatures, and the Authority will still have a presence though.

Right, I have to go, but it's been fun. Keep working hard, bros.

>>10707573
Fuck, they're like mechanical super-'nids.

>>10707573
I seem to recall Nihei having said that it was in fact bigger than that. While the farthest actual layer only goes out to just beyond Jupiter's orbit, there were supposedly 'tendrils' that reached all the way out to the oort cloud. Can't recall where I read that though, so I may be wrong. I think it was an interview or something.

>>10707769
I think we can just say that The City is fucking huge.

>>10706932
I agree with this for Silicons and humans. I think safeguards should have set classes because of their linear progression and lack of upgrade slots. Each level in a safeguard's progression radically alters their capabilities and the class, skills, and stats should reflect these new changes.

>>10707823
I've actually heard people claim the City to weigh more than 1 million solar masses. They say this based on its volume and the fact that unlike super-giant stars, which have near vacuum level densities, the city has much, much higher density for the same volume (going between the unknown density of the building material, which is likely quite high, and the atmospheric pressures at or around earth standard). I'm a bit skeptical to such claims, but thinking of something that big is just horrifying. There would just be this big empty space reaching for hundreds/thousands of light years around the city where the builders have passed. You could imagine alien civilizations trying to fight of the hordes of builders kind of like how 40k does with the Tyranids, only it doesn't go as well and they often die or have to pack up their entire civilization and flee.

>>10708340
Fuck, I think we just found out what the Tyranids were running from. Man, if the Builders ever reached the 40k galaxy, even the Necrons would be shitting their metallic pants.

>>10707573
Is it a spherical construction or is it flat, or does it only go in one direction? A linear city that long is less impressive.

>>10708423
I don't think it has a definite shape. Builders build the city randomly and without thought.

.>>10708423

It's a dyson sphere reaching out to beyond Jupiter's orbit, only not hollow.

>>10708340
>Kind of like 40k, only it doesn't go as well.
There's a phrase you don't hear every day. My grimdark meter just fried.

>>10708470
Don't forget the Jupiter sized room.

As for wildlife, we have all kinds of mutated organic lifeforms, humans and humanoid offshots, sentinent A.I.'s, various silicon life aside from the actually cult of silicon creatures... Not to mention all the wierd thing that may just have popped out of some ancient cloning factory running a corrupted program.

>>10707573
I think this anon brings up a valid point, and ties in that you have to remember exactly how much time it takes to get anywhere. Killy walks around in these impossibly immense structures for hundreds of thousands of years between scenes of anything happening. It's something one should really consider.

>>10708560
If I remember correctly, there was one elevator ride that took MONTHS to get to the floor they wanted.

>>10708560
Make that "hundreds OR thousands of years".

>>10708560
Hundreds of thousands? It doesn't take THAT long. Killy's journey has spanned several millennium, yes, but we aren't talking 6 digit numbers. Keep in mind that many of the transports used to get around the City do still exist (even if they are in a state of disrepair).

>>10708592
Oh yeah, and there's no telling how quick that thing was going either.
My guess is probably 'really fucking fast'.

>>10708605
Eh, I think you're right, I was getting a bit excited there. I think I do remember something about travels in the thousands though, if not tens of thousands.

New person in thread. Aren't drones the precusor of Silicon life? Isn't Killy an advanced genetically modified human from Toha Industries? Isn't that why he hates Silicon life with an apparently inbuilt fashion?

Also, don't forget humans can become Silicon Life as well, and get modified similar to how Ciel was to become more transhuman.

>>10708946
BioMega and Blame! don't take place in the same timeline. Nihei said so himself.

Read NOiSE, it tells you Blame!'s backstory.

>>10712589

because TIME IS NOT IN A LINE NO MORE WOOO

I was always under the impression that they were getting the material to build this fuck huge thing from parallel dimensions, like the one AltCibo was from. So there are probably interdimensional invasions to get resources.

1. Steal 3 million Suns from other universes.
2. Build ridiculously xboxhuge megastructure.
3. Fuck up the internets.
4. Grimdark!

If you kept up the 1994 growth rate of 1.9% compounded yearly the human race who convert the entire mass of the visible universe into human flesh in just of over 6,000 years. Yeah that's not possible, but just roll with me. So Blame! is just the logical conclusion of an exponentially growing civilization, only with robots instead of normal humans.

OH SHIT I AM READY FOR THIS

Then when the humans eventually work their way out of the internet, they put huge engines on the City to allow it to go FTL and the first Therians are born.

Just thinking about the crunch. What if you treated skills like downloadable programs. For example if you defeat the Safegaurd at a conversion tower or a megastructure wall then you have a limited amount of time to access the Netsphere and download programs because the Safegaurd set up a provisional connection inorder to download their exterminator and control units to your location. That way if the party wins a fight quickly(ie in fewer rounds) they essentially get more xp because they have more time to use the connection. Just a thought.

You could always use a regular experience system to let the party gain minor talents, and just have the Netsphere connection give them a ton of points that can only be spent on a few high grade skills.

Organ-techno faction that relies on lots of genetic engineering and organic power armor. Powerful in close combat with high agility, regeneration, strength, weapon skill, and armor. But not that good with guns. Best used in tight confines.Weak body shield like the gaurds of the company that Cibo worked form coupled with a high dodge skill allows you to aviod Safegaurd sword or GBE shots if you are really lucky.

Weapons
Kinetic= armor generates a gravimetric feild to speed up the movement of limbs and melee weapons.
Subtypes
Kinetic Fists/Knifes= low armor penetration, highest speed, aways prepared since the knifes are built into the arm, shortest reach.
Kinetic Sword= low armor penetration when swinging, high when trusting, medium speed, longest reach, average initiative since it is not heavy but still needs to be drawn.
Kinetic Axe= high armor penetration, slowest speed, low initative since it is so heavy, medium reach.

Projectile
Integral Scatter Gun=shotgun built into a limb, good against soft targets, can be used with kinetic fists to punch someone in the face grab on and shoot them point blank.

>>10703683
Multimode Firing Pistol
Pepperbox that fires box normal balistic rounds and guided explosive rounds.

>>10712910
I like this. But I think that perhaps it should apply to Feats rather than Skills. A certain Skill value, aka knowledge, in a given field would be required to successfully understand the data you get away with. This data would then give you greater insight into the nature of whatever the data is about. And if your Skill ISN'T high enough, you could just carry it with you in some small portable hard drive and in that way save it until you're good enough to understand it.

>>10713361
As in, the data in its pure format would let you gain a Feat that gives you expertise in a certain area.
Of course, this is mostly for Hacking, and sometimes for Science, but it's virtually useless for Combat. But, I like that, since it further diversifies the play styles.

>>10713423
Well you could download an visual tracting program that would increase your accuracy or a program that allows you do collate data faster, which gives you a quicker reaction time and better weapon skill in melee combat.

>>10713468
From a Conversion Tower? Maybe from another combatant with higher specs, but I believe that the Safeguard have their combat data integrated directly into their killbots. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to function outside the reach of a Conversion Tower.

>>10713500
Is that how we should justify all xp to the players? They examine the enemies they kill, the more advanced the enemy the more knowledge is gained. I'm okay with this.

>>10713552
Not all. Simple combat experience goes a long way to make a fighter into a better fighter. But yes, having a hacker nearby to copy data, or an engineer to learn and make physical improvements, should go a long way when it comes to fighter progress. And is also why a fighter with even the lowest level of Hacking or Engineering has a distinct advantage solo over a pure fighter.

I agree with access to the Net-Sphere allowing for faster progression by giving skill-relevant information and Feats with certain prerequisites.

Having this exclusively from Safeguard fights I'm not so into.

Players can make provisional connections with certain mega-structures like what Davinelulinvega tried to do, and can try to put together functional NTGs and human DNA sequences in order to sneak into the Net-Sphere. Both of these will have a limited time before either the provisional connection runs out or the NTGs get corrupted through exposure (or the Safeguard gets wise to what you're trying to pull).

>>10713598
It took him hundreds of years, a cadre of elite warriors, a Conversion Tower and a faulty Megastructure to do that, though. I agree that simply scanning an Exterminator shouldn't give much (read: dick), but say, a Silicon creature with a new, advanced upgrade... That's worth a lot. And it should also be worth a lot on the market in advanced colonies.

Mission seeds
Bugs are eating through a support that holds up a free floating piece of megastructure. If they aren't stopped a human settlement will be crushed. Wipe them out, but be careful other things prey on the bugs. This piece of megastructure is supposedly abandoned but Safegaurd might appear if anyone gets to close.

>>10707573
So the sun is that sphere reaching out to the first ring? It doesn't look like you could fit millions of those inside this thing. Hundreds or maybe thousands but not millions. What are the other spheres?

So this is MY idea of the skill system so far:

Everyone can level up in anything, unless they have some form of hard drive damage.
But, someone like Cibo, a Scientist and a Hacker, should gain Combat experience more slowly, while someone like Killy or Dhomo should have a harder time improving their Science skills.

Engineers can learn new ways to craft/augment things by either experimenting, or by stealing/analyzing data from outside sources.

Hackers can improve their skills by hacking and by using the information they gain through hacking. And by learning/trading knowledge from/with other Hackers.

Info about Computer Language can be gained from Conversion Towers, as can Science feats and upgrades. Also, Fighter types should be able to "load up" on power from Towers, making them temporarily more powerful. If an Engineer is nearby and has the right skill, he/she/it could also make the improvement more or less permanent.

>>10713695
OUR sun is the shit spot in the middle. The spot you're talking about is MUCH bigger.

>>10713695

No the sun is that tiny dot inside the sphere reaching out to the first ring. For comparison, this is the super-giant star VY Major Cantoris in set next to the sun. The City is of a similar size.

>>10713712
I forgot to add that: Scientists/Engineers can also learn from other Scientists, of course, and Hackers can take data from individual units without much firewall protection. Like Cibo does at a few occasions.

>>10713733
>>10713740

Well shit.

>>10713762
Should there be a stunt feat or skill of hackers so they and slow down an enemy or keep their weapon from firing for a turn. Kinda like what Cibo and Iko did.

>>10713801
Yes. It's been suggested, uh, let's see...
>>10707423
>hacking can be used to take over Builders or other machines
Just like that, yes.

People, I want opinions on >>10713712
It needs some polish and furhter details, but all in all I find it (and I admit that it's my idea and I'm not pretending to be otherfagging) rather simple, yet it offers a lot of options and spontaneous situations where unexpected benefits can be gained. It's logical, considering the setting.
What I want to know, is it not logical enough, or is it too logical, and what can be added? I'm not talking about individual skills, those can wait, but for the general trees the skills goes in.

Was there already an discussion about the mechanics?
I've seen short remarks about using systems like Gurps and the like or maybe along the lines of d100 like DH.

What will it be, d20 or d100 or... MAYBE SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!!

>>10714187
D20 is rather lame.
D100 has a very nice, easy to deal with probability spread, but 2d6 or even 3d6 have predictable but interesting spreads themselves.

>>10713217
Speaking of Abara, I know what I'm playing now that Ancient Enemies is out for Ctech.

If anything we should be using One-Roll-System. Greg Stolze is a fantastic game designer.

Highly lethal, very simple. 1d100 based, but eliminates most of the problems I have with Dark Heresey

>>10714784

what would those problems be

>>10714784
I don't know if high lethality it what we should really be looking for, as a system for playing BLAME!
Everyone, even the most basic of "humans," can lose multiple limbs and still keep functioning, and pain never seems to bother anyone.

>>10714791
It felt a bit too Crunchy, slightly too many modifiers to keep track of. Nothing Game Breaking, And I love the critical hit tables.

Let me Sum up One-Roll-Engine, my mistake earlier.

The System: I love this thing. I love it so damn much. Know how d% systems work? It's just like that. You roll d100 and compare that to a relevant stat, hoping to roll at or under the specific stat.

I really can't worship the character generation enough. It's fast as hell; if you know what you're doing it'll only take about 25 minutes to make a character from scratch. You have four stats: Body, Speed, Mind, and Soul. Under each of these stats goes a relevant skill. Along with these, you have what are called "Stimuli". These allow you to invoke a specific stimulus (either "Fear", "Noble", or "Rage") to allow for skill check modifiers that fit your character's personality. For example, you can lash out at something that provokes your character's anger stimulus, and if the roll fails you can re-roll once a game.

And one Unkown Armies Specific thing that may fit into Blame!

The sanity system in Unknown Armies is usually the one thing people take with them after a game. And for good reason; it, like the rest of the encompassing system, kicks ass. You know how Call of Cthulhu has its measly little sanity rating? YAWN. Unknown Armies has five damn sanity bars, each representing a different form of psychological damage. There's Violence, Unnatural, Helplessness, Isolation, and Self. Rather than whittling down an allotted amount of sanity a la Call of Cthulhu, UA offers characters the chance to toughen themselves up to the madness around them, but not without consequence. Too many failed sanity checks and you turn into a high-strung mess, succeed too many checks and you become a calloused sociopath.

>>10714887
I think everyone in Blame! starts out so jaded they just can't be bothered to bat an eye at giant horrible things trying to kill them, or eat them, or erase them from existence with reality-warping weapons.
They've long since advanced past the whole insanity problem.

>>10714934
Yeah, the benign waste-eating things that live in their gutters look more horrid than Cthulu.

>>10715115
If the Builders came across Cthulhu, they'd just eat him and build shit out of him without batting a metaphorical eyelash.

I think the anons linking the level up system to cybernetic upgrades and mods have it right. Now, someone raised the objection of what a baseline human is supposed to do when all leveling is done by hardware or software. The answer is: baseline humans aren't supposed to do dick since in the BLAME!verse, if you're not a cyborg or artificial human you're never going to be any kind of awesome or improve yourself to be a significant player.

>>10715215
I was under the impression that baseline humans, as such, didn't exist anymore in BLAME!
Even the most basic, apparently human people we meet are transhuman.

>>10715268
Not sure. The ones that appear in Blame! in the early parts, the ones fighting against the insectoid laser-beaming mutants, they showed no such traits. Their amor could very well have enchanced their physical traits like in Starship Troopers, the novel, not the movie.

Another thing is that technology and information is treated as obscure and often irrecoverably lost in BLAME!. Killy only starts kicking ass once his memory recovers and he understands what the entoptic overlays he has been walking around with mean. Most "level ups" should be treated as recovering lost knowledge, not necessarily the gaining of new info. Remember that even the Safeguard is fragmented and limited, and it doesn't have access to its own high-tier weapons and abilities.

>>10715268

well they're "transhuman" in the sense that they've been genemodded, but over time all the carefully engineered mods have mutated and drifted so I'm not sure it's pertinent to call them transhuman.

>>10715346
They still had basic cybernetic augmentations, at the very least.
A number of outwardly normal humans in the early chapters were shown to be capable of connecting to share information.

>>10715367
Not so much completely lost and irrecoverable, as locked away without access to the Netsphere.

Advancement without augmentation seems hard at all. It's true that a normal run of the mill human wouldn't do much in such a setting. But I find this an ideal starting point. A party of nomadic humans makes for great story telling in the beggining. Though starting as a weak silicon creature is probably just as good.

Now, while obviously they won't remain human for long. However I don't think all upgrades should be of the same nature...Perhaps biological, mechanical, net-based, etc? Like in adding mech parts to upgrade like the humans in the corp, or maybe take a more biological upgrade route, kinda like the Abara suggestion, maybe something more 'Hackerish' working with the netsphere like the safeguard or something in between like the silicon creatures. Just a thought.

>>10715367
Note that Killy is a special case. He is a construct older than the Safeguard, which is in turn older than the City. Characters like him can believably "remember" conveniently forgotten capabilities. Characters like Cibo, on the other hand, have to make do with learning things anew.

>>10715367
So should it take place before or after Killy halts the expanse of the City?

>>10715479

Which leads to a mechanics suggestion: your skills are determined by what implants and mods you have. Essentially skills are determined by your equipment. Want to hack? Get a hacking module, if you want to be better at hacking you'll need to upgrade it. Upgrades can be physical, as in swapping a mod for a better one, or software upgrades based on recovering more info about what the mod does from the Netsphere. Want to be better at melee combat? Get an armor mod for the body, cybernetic or organic melee attachments, or a cloak mod. Every character starts with a number of free slots and a crappy starting module or two.

>>10715528
Doesn't really matter, I suppose, so long as the Netsphere isn't readily accessible to just anyone.
The City is so vast, most people inside can't even begin to comprehend it. Halting the expansion wouldn't directly effect them for a few hundred years, at the least.

>>10713320
Its a metal storm pepper box
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DRmuljq9yw

>>10715586
Wasn't the Safeguard also mostly pacified when the City stopped expanding? They're still there, but not actively hunting, but instead concentrating on protecting areas of importance such as Conversion Towers? That's the impression that NGE gave me, at least. I was thinking that it might offer a more interesting setting since the party or colony wouldn't be randomly purged by Exterminators if someone stuck the cord into the wrong plug.

>>10715563
If you want a war story you could set it after Killy got shit done. Since then the humans armed their average soldiers about as well as the Silicon Life Knights. Safegaurd sword duels fuck yeah.

>>10715713
There wasn't really enough material in NSE or BLAME!2 to draw conclusions from. Presumably, they'd eventually calm the fuck down once the NTGs proliferated, but they'd be dangerous for a long while.

>>10715782
Why not make some own fluff and have it take place before NGE and Blame!2, but after Killy delivers? The time when human colonies all over the City takes their first steps into a bigger world and discover lost knowledge and makes contact with other lifeforms.

>>10715795
That they believed the Conversion Towers to all be shut down and dormant is enough for me to draw conclusions from.

>>10715824
We only saw one tiny village of humans, and one active conversion tower. That's really not anywhere near enough to draw conclusions from.

>>10715824
But Safeguard had armies of level 9s... If the humans could deal with that shit just as they were starting to recover then I'm terrified to think of what they'll be able to do once they get all their shit together. I expect massive wars for dominance between human empires that would from within the City once safeguard is ut of the way. THOSE would be utterly hellish.

>>10715904

The empires, or the wars?

Protip: Shoot all lolis on site. There is a 75% chance that they are a Safegaurd infiltration unit.

>>10715904
until they reached the edges of the city, where Killy still stalks around, and then he'd clean shit up

>>10715904

Those armies are useless once the Safeguard was barred by the Netsphere authority from downloading Exterminators into meatspace. Which I believe is what happened once Killy succeeded.

>>10715855
But the Conversion Towers are directly connected with the Megastructure, and the Safeguard are the same everywhere. Aside from areas such as the one Dhomo was in, they all operate under the same conditions. And they spoke of "the Conversion Towers". That implies that they have roamed fart enough to find at least a few other Towers, and yet they survived and returned to tell about it.

This pretty much sums it up. "The humans lost their abilities that seemed like magic". I would guess that some subtle genetical implants that were inhereited through procreation were deactivated, but that it wasn't fatal to the humans. So they were transhuman, but not overly so.

Also that the Governing Agency, or the Authority, as well as the Safeguard stopped functioning altogether.
I'm guessing that only areas powered by devices similar to Conversion Towers retains some function due to the loads of energy that was stored in them, and that they put all Exterminators into statis to preserve energy. That's why they "seemed like they were newly made" even after they had been unmoving for years and years. The only energy that was expended was to keep the already downloaded Exterminators intact. Probably just a safety protocole.

NEXUS - Auxiliary power source independent from its system. Conversion Towers and similar. They expend a minimum amount of energy to preserve existing units, because it's cheaper than disassembling them and creating new in case of emergencies. I bet they're on Standby mode waiting for the Safeguard to send new orders.

wow..im suprised that /tg/ likes Blame! if this was /v/ people would be throwing monkey poo and breaking chairs just for the fact that its from japan

I love how 12 pages of Net Sphere Engineer has offered more explanations than 12 volumes of Blame! did.
Case closed, I think. Back to game systematics and suggestions, or does OP think we have enough to go on for now?

>>10716598
Grimdarker than 40K, makes much more sense than most settings, and offers megatons of possible scenarios. Sci fi + social play + violence + killer robots = FUCKWIN.

A population of 5,000,000,000 (Five Billion, for simplicity) compounded yearly at a rate of 1.9% for 6,000 years comes out to: 1.62E+059

That's 162,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000&
#44;000,000,000,000,000,000,000 humans, which is entirely fucking ridiculous.

I need to re-read blame, or get a synopsis.
did the safeguards malfunction or something, I cant remember at all.

>>10716663
>,

Huh.

>>10715782
wait they made blame2?!

Oh a Blame! rpg thread, one of my fave mangas.

Regarding the skill system that's been proposed in this thread. While I like the idea of downloadable skills. I don't think even players would too much like a system where they can change their entire paradigm with a flip of a switch. Being able to do that erodes the sense of having a certain job in the adventuring group. If they can be harvested from places, it also changes the advancement into a reward-based instead of progress-based: the characters get better when the GM fancies to give them the chance.

>>10716692
One chapter.

>>10716671
Read NOiSE for background fluff about the Silicon Creatures and the Safeguard, and the Net Terminal Genes. It takes place at least 3000 years before Blame!. Then comes Blame!, followed by Net Sphere Engineer and lastly Blame!2. They're all readable as freestanding stories.
And yes, I know about Biomega, but it's not really relevant to the actual plot or setting. It's just how it got that way, it doesn't actually influence anything that's happening.

>>10716823
How do you like the sound of >>10713712
?

>>10716851
Sounds good to me, though it doesn't go too much into how downloaded skills are handled. The thought that a downloaded skill is NOT be permanent wouldn't make sense.

Missed the last two threads. Just saw this one. This is a fucking epic idea, OP. Going to DL older stuff on it now.

>>10716898
No, that part was just about raw energy for augumented characters. Nexuses are loaded with energy and if one could harvest it... Suggestion for downloaded information is in >>10713361
I know, I'm advocating my own ideas above others, but that's because I like my own ideas, obviously, and also because I know that I'm not misreading my own text.

>>10716898
Permanent until player deletes it to free slots for something else, I meant to say. Anyway, maybe a division to meatspace and digital info? Meatspace side of the sill is the base, and everything downloaded is a +skill? That way the characters retain a certain base predilection. The problem of course is that there's nothing that suggests things in Blame! worked that way.

>>10716946
We know that Cibo learned to communicate with Builders by learning their language from Killy, simply by connecting their interfaces for a few seconds.

>>10716971
I mean, division into meatspace and digital skills. In the manga, an ability is an ability.

>>10716946
Also, with +Skill you mean a Feat, right? Something more specialized than the general Skill that is required to understand it.

>>10717001
I agree with this.

>>10717001
Well, Hacking is always Digital, Science is one or the other or both, Engineering is the same way, and Combat is always Physical Reality. All but Combat can be learned through Digital Information, and Unit Improvements to increase Combat performance can be transmitted from a Hacker/Engineer into a Combat unit, since it takes a high level of Hacking to apply into a Combat interface. Something most pure Combat units are unable to handle on their own.

>>10717007
I meant additional points onto the skills. So your Meatspace skill (which would be a permanent statistic) is a value of say 5, and a Digital enhancement is a +2. onto it. But reading through those things, I think a Feat or similar thing can aslo work as a download. Also, perhaps the downloaded bonus cannot be higher than the base skill? So if base skill is 5, you can't use a higher program than +5 to enhance it.

Just a suggestion though. A system where skills are downloaded wholesale is a lot less bookkeeping.

>>10717080
We're all suggesting, just because you weren't here from the start doesn't mean your suggestions are worth less than ours.
And am I right when I interpret it like this: Feats should have different levels as well. And your skill in a Feat cannot be higher than your general Hacking skill?

>>10717064
I'd say Science should be a special skill, seeing as it'll be pretty much in both.

This sounds stupid, but how about player-character Safeguards?

>>10717109
Can I have a more specific explanation for what a Feat is? A use for the skill that is more specific than the skill it is based on?

>>10717138
That is very stupid.

>>10717114
I agree to this, but they are still quite different in their extremes. Chemicals and Cybernetic augmentations are the two extremes, and I figured they were both worth mentioning in the case.

I suggest that there be two types of protective gear. Armor to stop physical attacks. Fields to stop graviton weapons. I would suggest that the fields be really high level. You have to be a servant of a major corporation, a silicon knight, or a level six Safeguard like Sanakan to get them.

>>10717138
The DM gets to have that pleasure.

>>10717158
Exactly. See >>10712910
>>10713361
>>10713423

>>10717138

Either you have players be Provisional Safeguards like Dhomo and Ico, or ex-Safeguards under the command of the Governing Authority (like Sanakan), or you have the entire party be Safeguards. I don't think it'd work otherwise.

>>10717195
Only the most advanced Authority, Safeguard and Silicon units can deflect GB weapons. Sanakan level OR HIGHER. I think giving players control of that would break the game.

>>10717195

Additionally: rather than have fields be a high-level mod, they can be restricted by requiring a massive amount of energy. Remember that in the manga, all entities that had fields that could deflect GBE fire were powered by external generators.

>>10717264

Remember those floating maggot-babies in the corporate-controlled area where Killy found Cibo? They could deflect GBE's too.

>>10717264
And these guys.

>>10717372
That was Killy before he regained his higher functions and abilities... But I see your point... I'm guessing that they were some form of techno-genetically created mutant psykers.

>>10717400
See that tiiny hole that made? Fucking pathetic. Ten volumes later he devastated several miles with the power output on default.

>>10717264
Silicon Knights and maggot babies can only deflect Killy's GBE on level 1 or Sanakan's GBE pistol. When she upgraded to her Safeguard GBE(about as powerful as Killy's on level 2 or 3) she wrecked the Knights' shit.

>>10717480
Maggot babies. Now that's funny, ha ha! I hope someone's adding that to a list of enemies somewhere! Hear me?!

>>10717509
If those are just babies, I guess the full-grown ones can really ruin your day.

>>10717509
Seconding.

Sanakan's got one in her hand that can stop a level one GBE shot or penetrate another shield like the First Class Exterminator's.

Which brings up the question, for the game which is a higher ranked enemy Safegaurd Agent Level 9 with its nuke the fuck out of everything ability or the First Class Exterminator that survived 3 GBE shots and had telekinesis?

Get this archived. i need to go now.

>>10717612
Level 9. Being virtually unfuckable doesn't mean much if you can't kill people faster than they can run from you. If they CAN do that, then I'd put the First Level Exterminator just below a Level 9 Safeguard Unit.

>>10717674
I don't know how to archive anything, so someone else has to do it.

>>10717480
If anything, Killy's GBE is a more advanced model than Sanakan's. For one thing, it survived a level 9 Safeguard's giant sphere of annihilation attack, which even managed to put Killy himself out of commission for a good long time, without a scratch. By contrast, every other GBE we see tends to be stabbed, shot, or smashed to bits, and is rendered inoperable. For another, its power output seems to be limited solely by what its user can provide, though we never did see Sanakan in a situation where one of her GBEs didn't do the trick.

>>10717695
suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive

>>10717739
That probably has something to do with most Safeguard units being unloaded and then downloaded all the time. Killy and his gun are made to stay in Physical Reality. It might even be made from the same material as the Megastructure, while Safeguard versions are less sturdy.

>>10717695
>>10717674
>>10717748
Already archived.
>>10717677
Well, the advanced Exterminator unit was easily able to disable Sanakan, a level 6 Safeguard.

>>10717821
By the way, am I the only one who believes that Safeguard Units are "special" units that uses humans as base? Like what almost happened to Musubi in NOiSE (baddest chick ever, by the way). And high level Exterminators are more like physical manifestations of the Safeguard itself? A direct manifestation and not just programmed robots.

>>10717739
Killy's gun as 5 settings. Setting 1-4 can be used normally but the higher the setting the more power it uses. Setting 5 can only be used if you hook into an external power source like dead exterminator units. Nothing stops Setting 5.

>>10717868
I think that yeah, Safeguard "Agents," the human looking ones, were normal humans at some point in the distant past, who were inducted into the Safeguard. They seem to be capable of emotion, personality, and are capable of communication and independent operation and thought.
Though apparently, in full Safeguard mode, their bodies are usually remotely operated, as evidenced by Cibo's ability to disrupt the connection.
The exterminators seem to just be remote drones operated by some AI.

>>10717138
Safegaurd=Deathwatch

You could run it like that. Silicon creatures are trying to break into the Netshpere The party is level 3 overseers like Domocevsky, go fuck'em up.

>>10718127

You know, now that I think of it, the Safeguard agents are probably very similar in mindset to the Inquisition. I mean, they're more or less ideologically pure former humans who abhor the Silicon creature and the impure, tainted humans, and who will stop at nothing to achieve their objective, up to and including merrily slaughtering entire villages full of civilians just to get to one dude.

>>10718218
I think I read somewhere that while doing actually planned operations with Exterminators, the Safeguard Units are mindless, controlled by the Safeguard. But when left alone, like Dhomo, they regain the ability to act freely WITHIN PROTOCOLE.

Looking for upgrades. Find Safegaurd armory, steal suit, learn how it works, badassary ensues.

>>10718882

That's not a "suit" as much as it's Sanakan's actual body frame. You'd have to upload yourself into a Safeguard agent's body to gain those abilities.

>>10719286
It's a suit, Sanakan got her body back in the preceding volume when the Toha-Netsphere treaty was cancelled.

>>10719286
Oh, and it isn't Sanakan either, but Cibo. Hair colour tends to be a dead giveaway here.

The body Cibo hijacked from Sanakan might have been capable of things like that, but she got it

>>10719450
I always thought that the Safeguards resource allocation software must be profoundly fucked up.

Harmless Electrofishers squatting around THA; send Sanakan, Godzilla, and a zerg rush worth of exterminators.
Silicon Creatures invade and take over an entire level of the Megastructure; I'm sure Domochevsky and Iko can handle it. Yeah Danniveal kept them from getting reinforced, but still.

>>10719614

Domochevsky and Iko said that the hardware of that part of the netsphere was fucked up. There were also legal restrictions programmed into the Safeguard. They can't just summon up an army at one spot and march it into another, apparently.

OP here. I archived this earlier, so no worries.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/10703489/

No wonder the other threads were so slow; most of you guys are daytime /tg/.

My take on skills: Equipment gives bonuses and ability to hack or whatever, but intelligence and "training" points provide the mental portion of the skill. Using programs more creatively, improvisation, etc.

Just a little stat on the Safeguard Sword.
pic: before

It can't pierce megastructures.
pic: after

>>10717961
2d10 Damage on 1st setting
4d10 Damage on 2nd setting
6d10 Damage on...
...
10d10 Damage on 5th setting, ignores armor, requires external power source, fuck-off recoil.

GBE Variant Stats compared to Killy's(KGBE)

Light GBE(Sanakan's pistol)=Setting 1 KGBE
Heavy GBE(Sanakan's rifle arm)=Setting 2 KGBE
SuperHeavy GBE(Safegaurd Carrier mouth mounted)=Setting 4
Legendary GBE(similar to Killy's)= up to setting 4 or 5 at GMs discretion. Cannot be constructed by players. Cannot be destroyed in action. Cannot be obtained from Safegaurd. Can only be awarded by the Governing Agency.

So, let's go over stats again.

BODY
Basic stat. Represents:
a) size of the body (that can and most likely will be modifyed)
b) limitations of the body of the given size (statcaps, augmentation limits)

Let's say there is a master body chart. It has sections for head, torso and all limbs. That's where one keeps track of all augmentations he has. Limits on them as follow:
Torso : 1 * BODY
Leg (l,r): 1/3 * BODY
Arm (l,r): 1/4 * BODY
Head: 1/5 * BODY

When damage is taken, it can have the form of BODY damage. If appropriate amount is dealt to the part, it is lost. Chunky Salsa rule is optional, but generally works.
Taken BODY damage is distributed among implants resulting in their desctruction or something.

Safeguard Darts:
1d2 Damage
On successful hit, target must make a Willpower (or equivalent stat)Test.
On successful Willpower Test, make toughness test. On success, no ill effects. On failure, target becomes disabled depending on where he/she was hit.

On failed Willpower test, target rolls d%. On 5% or less, target is converted into a Exterminator under the users control. If over 5%, effects of failed toughness test result.

Compability
There exist compability classes, since no ne is making standarts for anything. Except big agencies.
Compability is tied to both person as whole and individual implants/upgrades. Badly compable implants inflict penalities, non-compablie do not work.
Compability is assigned during character creation, and can be expanded. As a rule of thumb implants usually have several compability classes.
Example: own CC A
Implant 1: AB - works great
Implant 2: BC - penalty
Implant 3: CD - does not work

>>10720707
I think destruction of implants should happen with bash or impact damage. Slicing damage, once it reaches a certain amount, should result in severing the limb, and modifications intact depending on how they're implanted. Synthetic muscles would be damage, obviously, while a gun blade implant in the forearm is okay.

>>10720837
Perhaps we should apply these penalties to having too many larger implants. For example, the torso can fit several implants. Too many larger ones would interfere with each other.

Compatibility should apply to upgrades and add-ons to mods.

>>10720707
So, BODY is ranged by 5
5 - small
10 - normal (human size)
15 - big
etc
each size category differs by 1.3; in other words 15 means 3 times bigger then5, 20 means 3 times bigger then 10, 30 3 times bigger then 20.

>>10720900
Way i see it, when BODY cap of implants is exceeded, penalities on all relevant body stats occur, since it is impossible to fit so much implants in there and have them working efficiently.
Compability should represent different design architectures, although i must admit it may be not necessary at all.

>>10720906
If we work with d%, we won't necessarily use base 5, but I think the basic idea should work.

So, BODY's subordinate attributes are strength, dexterity and toughness.

>>10721072
Don't forget Vitality.

And I think Dexterity should be separate. Stealth, speed(?), "steadiness", perhaps?

>>10721105

Steadiness as in holding your gun properly or steadiness as in handling recoil/weight? I agree the first should be determined by dexterity, but the later should be determined by strength.

Recoil Stats for GBE
Roll d4, d6, or d10 as proscribed
If the player braces himself before firing the weapon use a -3 modifier. Strength modifiers may also apply.


Results:
0-2=The weapon jumps in your hand, but you maintain control and are ready for a shot next turn and remained braced if you so desire.

3=You lose your footing momentarily, but are able to recover. If you wish to brace yourself next turn you must do so again, since you are no longer braced.

4-5=The due to the recoil you lose your grip on the weapon. You will not be able to fire next turn.

6= Bad luck the GBE kicked back at an unexpected angel and you struck yourself in the head. Take 1 damage point due to head trama. You may fire next turn but you must brace yourself again if you wish to, as you are no longer braced.

7-8=You are staggered by the force of your weapon's recoil.

9-10=You are thrown prone onto your back by the force of your weapons recoil.

11-13=The force of recoil was absorbed mostly by your arm. You are staggered by the recoil and take 1d4 damage to your arm.

13-15=The force of recoil was absorbed mostly by your arm. You thrown prone by the recoil and take 1d4 damage to your arm.

16=The recoil was to great and you have lost your grip on the weapon. It is thrown 14d meters away and you must retrieve it if you wish to use it again.

17-18=The force of recoil was absorbed mostly by your arm. You are staggered by the recoil and take 2d4 damage to your arm.

19-20=The force of recoil was absorbed mostly by your arm. You thrown prone by the recoil and take 2d4 damage to your arm.

21-22=The recoil was to much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated and you are staggered.

23-26=The recoil was to much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated and you are thrown prone.

Setting1=1d4
Setting2=2d4
Setting3=1d10
Setting4=2d10
Setting5=2d10+1d6 Bracing will not apply as the recoil is too great to brace against.

>>10721206
I can dig it. We can also apply these to other more powerful guns. Standard firearms won't go outside of the first couple recoil levels, I think.

>>10721191
Steadiness sounds iffy now that I think on it.

So, digital abilities.
As seen in manga, there was some delicious things, like paralyzation, making backup copies, paralyzing opponents, downloading organisms from the NET etc. Effectively, up tpo the level where science and magic aren't distinguishable.
From the other hand, in BLAME we saw ridiculously big amounts of data processec and gathered, which can be classifyed as more traditional digital tasks

>Setting5=2d10+1d6 Bracing will accomplish nothing as your arm just flew across the fucking room.
FTFY. It is important people understand just how fucking monstrous the recoil of high level GBE shots are.

>>10721316

Read the whole post.

>>10721315
Downloading proxies and Safeguard into Base Reality should be a special ability for Safeguard and Authority characters, I think.

Computer use and hacking are aided through equipment and can be improved through practice and intelligence bonuses.

>>10721344
The chart could use some work, I think. You repeated a couple of results, and the distribution seems off.

>>10721377

I posted >>10721344 but am not >>10721206

>>10721418

I posted, >>10721377
Not >>10721316

Pic: this thread

I am Spartacus...er >>10721206. Feel free to modify and post. Lets nail down what we think is good and crunchy.

>>10721440
(samefag)

Disregard that, I suck at reading comprehension.

>>10721206
I think we should expand on the last two results, since they'll only appear on levels 4 and 5 anyway.

>>10721315
So, there is seconf governing attribute, MIND. Though not as obvious as BODY, it governs throughput of data that a character can process.
The most basic task is obvious: running all those implants. When, for some reason, MIND damage is taken, and set below neede levels, augmented character becomes effectively paralyzed.

Subordinate attributes are intelligence (is used to represent ability to complete the task of given hardiness in given time), Integrity (determinesability to protect system from intrusion or prevent data corruption) and perception (represents the ability to gather information)

So, example data tasks that can be done:
run all the implants
calculate evasion algorithm
calculate targeting algorithm
bypass data security
find needed data in data stirage
initiate download from NET
communicate with builder
disable remote mechanism
gain control over system

>>10721492
How would they work as a faction in 40? It seems lie they would be horribly overpowered considering anyone with a GBE could conceivably kill a titan.

>>10721551
I think MIND should be divided into Intelligence, Willpower, and Perception instead. "Integrity" is more of a roleplaying thing for the player to decide.

>>10721492
I shopped that pic, never thought someone would save it.

>>10721571
Titans have void shields, so for the sake of arguement lets assume they work the same way as the shields in Blame! A titan could probably defect a setting 4 or 5 GBE, proably. The Emperor titans own weapons yields is something like 64/sec from the main battery so its comparable to the maxed out GBE.

>>10721606
Well, Integrity IS a gloryfied Willpower, isn't it?

So, is i agreed that skill checks and such are taken on d%?

>>10721696
I misunderstood what you meant by "Integrity".

22=The recoil was too much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated. If a party member is behind you, you fall into their arms, causing you both to stagger. If not, you are thrown prone.
23=same
24==The recoil was too much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated. If a party member is behind you, you are thrown into them and both of you are knocked prone.
25=The recoil was too much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated and strikes a party member standing behind you(if any) with enough force to cause them to stagger. You are thrown prone.
26=The recoil was too much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated and is thrown 14d meters away. You are thrown prone.

>>10721674
But the penetration of a GBE is such that it can pierce a planet's crust when fired down. On level 1. They could just set it to a higher level and spam GBE shots at the ground around the Titan's feet until the ground is no longer stable enough to hold the Titan and it falls over and drowns in a sea of lava.

>>10721921
22=The recoil was too much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated. If a party member is behind you, you fall into their arms, causing you both to stagger. If not, you stagger.

23=same

24=The recoil was too much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated and strikes a party member standing behind you(if any) with enough force to cause them to stagger. You are thrown prone.

25=The recoil was too much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated. If a party member is behind you, you are thrown into them and both of you are knocked prone.

26=The recoil was too much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated and is thrown 14d meters away. You are thrown prone.

Sorry about that I fucked up

So, how will be Vitality (thing that makes you dead when goes to 0) and bodily gamage tied together?

>>10721921
18-21: The recoil was too much for your skeletal structure to handle, your arm is amputated. You are staggered.

>>10722029
If your total damage to different parts of your body exceeds your Vitality score (or some score that depends on it), your body will shut down.

>>10722066
Sounds OK.

What about that staggered thing? How will it work?

>>10722066
Your limbs will have less points than your torso, and significant damage to the head will render you unconscious or dead regardless of vitality and other damage.

This can be avoided using a modification that acts as a sort of "back up" braincase, similar to the "child" here >>10715952. Your real head can be replaced, but until it is you take significant penalties.

>>10722041
That might be a little excessive since 2d4 would already probably disable the arm. And that makes it so you can't fire on setting 4 even when braced without losing the whole arm.

Is there a separate broken limb mechanic we can use for when we want less than amputation but to be more specific than just severe damage?

>>10722180
Certain modifications to reinforce the arms? Synthetic muscles, reinforced bones and joints, etc.

What about recoil throwing all of your body into a wall behind you, piercing through it, the three next ones and stopping on the fifth one?

>>10722110
It's a DH mechanic terminology, in this case I think we'd give the player a movement or initiative penalty next turn. Or make him use actions to get his footing back.

>>10722214
This shall be our 26-result.

There is also a Toughness that can be readily used.
How about "damage taken vs Toughness" check, which will determine on table what happens? Something like "beat by 5, 1 BODY point from the part lost"?

>>10722294
Toughness bonus is subtracted from damage rolled by weapon to calculate damage.

>>10722311
It would be very. very good, if we could stay out of bonuses altogether, IMO

Havent read the whole thread but ops speculations were like a rusty needle to my balls.

>Some proposed skills:

>Computer Use (Including hacking and the like)
>Engineering (building, repairing, and understanding machines)
>Medicine (Self explanatory)

Are essentially the same, and should all be governed under Hacking, as there is no sanctioned use of internets in the City, local or elsewhere. If you have the knowledge AND the means to hack a net terminal, you´ll also would know how to rapid heal and modify your or someone else´s body, as the technology used for pretty much everything in the City is based on living machines and Silicon Life. Repairing also goes here as Medicine does, as its essentially the same.
Hacking > Specialization Engeneering >Specialization Manipulation (of surroundings)
Hacking > Specialization Medicine > Specialization Modification/Enchansment

>Marksmanship (Use of firearms)
>Close Combat (Unarmed, melee weapons)
Should be combined under Combat Training
Combat Training > Specialization Melee > Specialization GBE-level Weaponry (needs full set of body modifications)
Combat Training > Specialization Ranged > GBE-level weaponry (needs full set of body modifications)

>Climb
>Swim
Erm, what? No really, what?

>Bluff
Passive, and you can not directly influence it, as it is a sum of values overall collected form all skills, modifications and traits.

>Track
Survival
___Tracking (passive, cannot be directly enhanced)

and so on

my 2 cents, ofcourse its just my suggestion

>>10722522
That sounds good except for the first part.

You can use a computer without accessing the Net-Sphere. There can also be smaller networks and databases to be accessed. Hacking is for getting around security. I'll agree that Hacking and Computer Use could be combined, but medical skill should remain separate.

and btw, modification scores for humans?
You cant modify a human, and even modified till blades come out of his ass, a human will never be a match for a Silicon Being.

>>10722522
Way i see it, there is no specific need to use skills at all here.
There are stats and used algorithms, that function as check modifyers, andwhat else do we really need?

>>10722654
Depends on the specific silicon being. There were some no-impressive-at-all ones.
And what will yoou make of Seu? He was human, he was modifyed, he was a match for them, all right.
We are talking about full modification; all internal organs and all tissues will be changed as well...

>>10722654
What exactly do you mean by human in BLAME anyway?

>>10722662
Having a skill would mean you can use that skill to the best of your abilities. If you don't actually have the skill you can't really make a full characteristic test.

Additional training in skills gives you a bonus to any tests so you're less likely to fail.

>>10722654
>>10722760
As I recall, we decided that humans will have less modification slots than Silicon Creatures. How we'll balance the two we still need to work out.

And humans CAN hold there own against Silicon Creatures to some extent. The players are going to above the typical human in terms of abilities - that's why they're running around pulling the shit they do.

>>10722780
"Human" just means anyone who isn't a Silicon Creature (or offshoot of such) or a Safeguard.

>>10722979
Sounds GURPSy

>>10723049
I haven't played GURPs, but I'm basing it off of DH which uses d%.

Weapons stats
Multimode Firing Weapons
Ammo capacity:20 ballistic rounds, 4 guided rounds
All rounds can penetrate exterminator armor
ballistic round=1d4 damage
guided round=2d4 damage, can go around corners or top attack

other modes:
4 ballistic round burst=2d4 damage
fire all guided rounds at one target=2d6 damage
Metal Storm fire all ballistic rounds at one target=3d4

>>10723082
Ok. So, if the stats are more or less covered, what about those skills and specialisations? How do they work?

>>10722618
Its a matter of what your party should consist of, or specifically if humans are allowed for use as a PC species. Because healing a cilicon being is repairing, as is healing a synthetic human such as Killy.

I dunno what system you use as a template, Im thinking more in a system where everything is influencing everything by a bit.

Like when you use Manipulation, your other skills determine how successful your specific attempts are, like if you want to make the NPCs into swiss cheese, your combat training determines how successful the gun placement is, your weapon training how powerful the gun is, engineering how reliable the gun is. Or if you are SUPER1337haxxor and know SCIENCE but little else, you turn the whole vicinity into a batch of super strings. But in that case you really need to be a SUPR1337haxxor.

Everything affected by everything in big or rather microscopic fashion.

Btw a fully modificated human is biologically not a human, and should be treated as full silicon being/synthetic human and/or hybrid with its own benefits and penalties, and in this case, medicine is obsolete at least for healing injuries.

48 megawatt output continuous laser. 1d10+1d4 damage. No recoil, but do to its large size it must always be braced before firing. High strength required.

Silicon Life Advanced Scatter Gun
Can penetrate exterminator armor. 1d6 damage. Holds 6 rounds if it is integral or 8 rounds if the gun is hand held.

>48 megawatt output continuous laser. 1d10+1d4 damage. No recoil, but do to its large size it must always be braced before firing. High strength required.
>High strength required.
Cliche. We´re talking BLAME here, there are other ways to restrict or classificate a weapon.
Like, dunno, PC too small to hold, not enough scientific knowledge, needs steady energy feed, restriction by party members a la "you aint gonna cut me in half with that thing".

Lets try to be less DnD. Less tables, more reasonable improvisation.

Silicon Grenade. 1d10 damage to all characters within 10 meters, excluding silicon life. If line of site to the bomb is blocked by cover, no damage is incurred.

Not to be a nay sayer or anything.

But why are the faces so badly done in the manga

>>10724171
Because Nihei blows his load making an awesome background then goes, "Oh, fuck. I really should have them emote something. Na, screw it. More explosions!" I always called it the Mt. Rushmore look.

We know that he can draw, unlike many other animu 'artists', but he just doesn't feel like it when it comes to faces. At least they are horribly bug eyed like nearly all other mangos.

>But why are the faces so badly done in the manga

Because it's manga. It's comic first, skillful drawings second. Yeah, knowing how to draw and knowing how to make comics are two seperate skills and Manga usually puts focus on the latter.

>At least they are not horribly bug eyed like nearly all other mangos. hurr hurr

>>10724171
His first issues were pretty clean and simple, and it wasn't until his later chapters do the artwork becomes more gritty and detailed. Though he'll put an intense amount of detail into a Silicon Creature's left testicle before putting any detail into their face.

>>10724350
Because he can draw faces and shit but doesnt want to.

Fisher Pattern Boltgun. Ten rounds contained in the gun. 1d10 damage for single bolt fired. 1d10+1d4 for two bolts simultaneously. Penetrates exterminator armor.
Should this have higher accuracy than other weapons?

Coil Pistol. Holds 30 shots, caseless. 1d10 damage for standard round. 1d10+1d6 for overclocking(see pic). Overclocked pistol has to cool down for one turn after firing.

Human Blaster. Battery good for 100 rounds. 1d10+1d4 damage.

Somebody should stat the fisherman's power armor or just power armor in general.

Electrofisher Armor

Double speed during "Run" action (skating effect)

-10 Dexterity

+10 Bonus on Strength Checks

6 Armor Points on Arms, Legs, Torso, and Head (with helmet)

-3 on rolls for Recoil Effects

>>10726109
Techonomad Armor(related)

Double speed during "Run" action (skating effect)

Soft landing effect, expends shells in boots, capacity of 5 shells per boot.

Helmet radio.

-5 Dexterity

+5 Bonus on Strength Checks

6 Armor Points on Arms, Legs, Torso, and Head (with helmet)

-2 on rolls for Recoil Effects

Dudes, we didnt even finish the >sketch< for the rpg, and you making tables? You mad.

>>10726277
We're just throwing ideas around, really. Conceptual crunch. We'll get down to the detailed crunch once we settle this.

What we've got so far

-d% system
-Three Base Races (Humans, Silicon Creatures, Safeguard)
-Modification and skill-set "packages" to further diversify the party
-Skills improved through practice of skills
-Narrow but focused progression for Safeguard packages
-Silicon creatures get bonus modification slots
-Modification slots based on Body stat (size)
-Recoil Mechanic
-Specify parts of body affected by attacks
-Base stats can be improved through modifications
-Accessing Net-Sphere gives large rewards but limited to choose from at a time

>>10726232
Organotechnic Armor(not sure if we want this as well its meant for a higher level character anyway)

Double speed during "Run" action

Triple jump height and soft landing ability due to elastic polymer muscle analogs.

+10 Dexterity

+15 Bonus on Strength Checks

6 Armor Points on Arms, Legs, Torso, and Head

-3 on rolls for Recoil Effects

-1 ballistic skill modifier when using weapons the seat in the shoulder(boltguns ect), since it is covered in protrusions designed to aid in close combat.

>>10726821
Get rid of the double speed or the dex bonus, I'd say. He doesn't have a skate mechanism and armor is gonna be heavy, even if it's organic.

Seeing as how any race besides vanilla Humans get a lot of bonuses and perks, let's give Humans extra skills/feats starting out. You're not going to survive long in The City crawling with Silicon Creatures, Safeguard, and Gauna (which seem to be coming into this) if you're not on the ball.

>>10726956
I was going off of this post>>10713217 that portrayed this Abara like faction as lightening fast berserkers, that can't shoot for shit. I figured there would be some prerequisites to getting organic armor that would make him suck at guns to keep things balanced. But we're all just bullshitting around anyway, and you do have a point.

>>10727242
Maybe they should be slow runners, but jump around like grimdark Spiderman. Which is kind of what they were in the comic.

>>10727242
I'd say get rid of the dex bonus, then. Fact is they're still bulky. They may zip around like nobody's business but that doesn't mean they're necessarily agile.

Anyone using this type of armor I think shouldn't be allowed cybernetics, or at the very least have severe penalties and limitations. The two systems could interfere with each other, any mods being damaged by the shifting bone and such.

>Blame! thread
>Nearly 300 posts
I fucking love you /tg/.

>>10727324
Schiff: Are you a bad enough dude Abara?

Y'know what? Any character that puts enough training and focus into tearing their enemies apart in melee combat and zipping around can go for it, since obviously they won't have much in regards to hacking, science, firearms, etc.

Highly specialized, highly effective.

About armor.

There are 2 types of armor - normal armor and body modifications. Humans can only wear normal armor with stat bonuses depending on skills, Silicons can wear normal armor with penalties to skills or merge them as a modifications, but its a one-time mod since if they take it off its destroyed. Safeguards dont wear any armor, yes, they are THAT hardcore, but get significant bonuses to natural resistances and evasion/deflection, cause they are THAT hardcore. But as said, no bonuses from awesome armors, as they dont wear them.

>>10727914
Sensible. Safeguard essentially are their own armor. As are Silicon Life to an extent, and they can rather easily switch and modify their bodies.

>>10727607
IF you get that far. Till you can pull off the berserker shit you have to dodge lots and lots of bullets, you dont expect to go all Inigo Montoya on exterminator drones right from the start?

Thats the thing about Combat Training, if you are so good trained that you can cut hostiles into steaks with nanoblades, you had enough combat training to know where the bad end of a gun is. So naturally youll still be able to use guns on an acceptable level even if you minmax into pure melee.

>>10728166
True, but the person playing this character won't bother using guns unless absolutely necessary simply because it'll be wasteful of their abilities.

So, how about this:

Combat training
--- Specialisztion Melee
--- --- Evasion andgrappling
--- --- Improvsed weapons
--- --- Regular weapons
--- --- Special weapons (different branch for every special weapon)
--- Specialisation Ranged
--- --- Sniper weapons
--- --- Sidearm weapons
--- --- Explosive weapons
--- --- medium-rate-of-fire weapons
--- --- high-rate-of-fire weapons
--- --- Gigh-level-of-energy weapons
--- --- Special weapons (branch for every)

>>10727914
And that bullsh%t about humans not being fully modifyable again...
Humans can be modifyed to any needed extent. If Noise is to be believed (and it is), Sanakan started as modisyed human, for instance

>>10728898
too complex
it would only make sense if PCs were human only
Silicons melees would be forced to use improvised weapons, as all of their weapons are improvised
in blame a pistol can pack as much of a punch as a sniper rifle, so it doesnt really make sense to use traditional classifications
and besides, ultraspecialisation on a certain weapon is unrealistic, especially in such a background as blame, where adaptability is everything

>>10729021
Sanakan was the first >sentient< Silicon Being.
If a human is modified to the extent of becoming a silicon being, it IS a fucking silicon being, thats the point it isnt human anymore. There rules for Silicons apply, and human dont.

Btw Sanakan wasnt modified, she got slaughtered and given a new body.
And its spelled "bullshit". BULLSHIT YOU FUCKING SONOVABICH WHAT THE FUCK A 12 YEARS OLD IS DOING ON /tg/!?

>>10729121
Silicon creatures' weapons aren't improvised, they are either regular or special by the classification.
The idea behind the subdivisions of weapons was not just the power they have, but how one should efectively shoot from them. Sniper weapons exist in BLAME, btw - not that GBE can't do the same but better, of course, but that's not really the issue.

The fact is, vast majority of characters in BLAME! are specialised, and stick to a single weapon throughout. No reason not to repeat that in RPG form.
Also, way i see it, nodes of classification ("Specialisation: ranged" eic) can be upgraded as well, improving all the related skillsets.

>>10729209
More b$llsh%t. Sanakan is Safeguard, not the Silicon being. Also, there were Silicon beings when she was clearly alive - they even went and killed her.

>>10729270
They dont specialize because they want to, but because its the single most powerful and versatile weapon they got.
They can shoot both mooks and space stations with the single gun the got.

>>10729325
First >sentient< Silicon Being. The others were drones of an overmind. That shit on their foreheads means they are connected. Sanakan was the first silicon being without the shit on the forehead, hence independent in its actions, hence sentient.
And what the fuck do you think are the Safeguard? They arent humans, they arent synthetics. Whats left?

>>10729350
You are talking just about GBE. I ain't.

Dhomochevsky stuck with his multi-mode gun
Schizz or however his name was went with 2 blades
Fishermen used bolt guns
etc etc.

Well, you are right in the regard they stuck with the best avaiable. But the assumption that they were specialised in what they stuck to holds more weight then assumption they were good in all fields. At least to me.

>>10729443
Re-Read the goddamn manga already. You clearly either have a bad reading comprehension or have forgotten what the thing was about. For pity's sake, Silicon creatures are in the first chapter, and Sanakan firt appear in 15+
Silicon beings started as humans modifying themselves with stolen Safeguard technologies. Some works, sucj as 'negative ladder' lead reader to the conclusion that humans can be modifyed into Silicon creatures as well.

>>10729448
You´re right, it is a specialization, but they dont use their guns because they are specialized on them, but they are specialized because they use them.
Different mechanic.

Specialization to a certain single weapon is a good idea thou. Not a type but a model.

Not used > Used > Excel > Master

>>10729552
Read NOISE and/or fuck off.

>>10729554
More like different wording to me. It goes like that, IMHO:
<you d not know how to use the gun> - <you practice with it> - <you know how to use the gun>
Since BLAME isn't seinen, we went straight to the stage 3...

Skill ranks sound OK

>>10729596
Well damn. I've read it, and guess what? Sanakan was killed by sentient Silicon creatures. Moreover, the drones before were hijacked Safeguard drones.

>>10729643
pic related

>>10729603
No no, its not a different wording.
Lets say you choose handguns as specialization at the start. Then you get a handgun and kill shit with it and excel. Then you get a shotgun and you shoot your own foot because you cant handle it. Wrong way.

Instead, you get a specific handgun, lets say Dohmochevskis multi purpose, growing to like it, and become more and more effective with it, grasp the recoil, you instinctively know when its cooled without even looking at it, and finally you tune it, or discover that certain modes switched between as you shoot can provide rather interesting results.
And when you get a shotgun you still could kick ass with it, because you know how to handle guns overall. Just not as effective. Same with an other handgun, you still kick ass with it, but not as effective as with your favorite gun.

>>10729897
Well, i get your core idea, but i do not see using vaguely defined "specific guns" as a starting point as good mechanic.

Way i see it, it could work like that:
"specialisation: ranged" provides basic bonus for ranged attacks
specific subskills provide coefficients.
Like:
Not familiar : 0.5
Familiar : 1
Normal: 1.5
Advanced: 2
Master: 2.5
Expert : 3

>>10730056
You shouldnt do the number nazi in blame. In a setting where instakilling happens more often then plain normal crits, you care too much for numbers.

And not specific guns, a single specific gun. 1 piece of weaponry, or a certain model to a lesser extent if it appears often. As an example - normal guards assault rifle "Model M-BFG-675".
You get the gun, kill bitches.
Not Used > Used > Expert
Suddenly your gun breaks.
You get another "Model M-BFG-675"
You are still Expert
You kill more bitches, become Master of this gun. It suddenly breaks.
You get "Model M-BFG-897"
Its also an assault rifle , but with this gun you are still Not Used.
You get your old back, with it you are an expert.

And if you use that specific rifle, not the model, but that specific rifle you are holding in your hands long enough, you become Master with further benefits.

The d20-typical microscopic exclusively numeric buff/debuff values are here clearly not in place, be more creative, there are plenty of systems where you can get off on numbers.

Not that i want to say that numeric values are not needed, but going with standard rules with blame doesnt do the credit.the fluff deserves.

Changes should be more significant, and not cookie cutter. Like +40% fire rate on Master, as your char discovers how to override the cooling mechanism safely without damaging the gun.

>>10730425
i'll allow myself to disagre about the instakilling bit. A lot of characters go down notoriously hard, even despite the GBE (the thing responsible for the majority of instakilling)

In any not-freeform rpg numbers are needed. With that in mind, could you describe your idea with more of them?

>>10730502
i dare say changing from n*1 to n* 1.5 is pretty significant change.

I thought damage allocation method that was discussed earlier would do justice to Nihei-sensei's work.. at least a part of it...

>This thread.