This just seems like the best idea ever.

Quoting the original text:

>Since /tg/ is actually /kobolds/ I thought I would ask this here; I plan to add a continent to my group's unified setting. This content is entirely populated by kobolds, and has been for countless thousands of years - there might be a few dragons around, but not many, and certainly no humans, elves or dwarves. It's a jungle continent, with some marshes mixed in, and an variety of cave systems beneath it.

>My question is 'if given several thousand years of relative peace, what kind of kobold society would develop?'.

I suppose we don't have to restrict ourselves so much in this thread though.

Previous thread: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6875439

Previous thread OP here, do what you like, you guys are on a roll.

FUCKING GNOMES.

Have we settled on what kind of government they have?

I'm just going to start with my favourite part from the earlier thread. How love works:

>Same thing than in canon: they fuck around like crazy, trying to make as many new kobolds as possible to maintain their economy, but they also make some real emotional attachments and even get married. It's just that if you fuck your neighbour in a human society, you get shit thrown at you - but do the same in kobold society and nobody cares.

>"Hey hun, I was just at the second door knocking up some chicks."
>"That's great darling, wipe your feet before coming in."

>>6878551
That would mean overpopulation would be rampant.

Oh hell, ritualized kobold sacrifices to the dragons to keep the population down.

Kobolds have faces, not snouts. D&D is resurrecting the Draconians, and they were an inconsistent idea the first time around as well.

>>6878551
they should be able to pop out eggs within a matter of weeks then

>I would draw it as a land of self deception.

>Industrious little good hearted dummies live in small tribal groups and spend their short lives mining, growing fungi and mosses, farming rats, brewing mud ale in miasmic pools, making simple tools from driftwood, sharp rocks, and sinew, collecting pet pebbles, paying tribute to the elders who pay the taxes, and always trying to get a good deal out of anyone who comes along.

>There might be some larger settlements with some expansive mine systems beneath and a feudal aristocracy ruling with some semblance of order, ultimately worshiping the big bad dragonlords who seem to dominate every aspect of life with cruel and harsh rule (but the few remaining dragons merely enjoy being fed and don't care much about the going ons of the little critters).

>But behind this facade of neutrality and obedience, every Kobold knows he can get an edge for himself. As long as he can maintain an image of innocence he will lie, steal, and kill if there's something shiny in it for him. This is why they are rarely found alone or in pairs, crowds have eyes and provide security.

>A band of Kobolds will be friendly, if reserved, and a powerful ally if treated nicely. But they will cut your throat while you're sleeping.

>Just imagine a horde of Gollums, edit in some Galaxy Quest child-aliens, and top it off with a little cutebold.

This, except without the aristocracy: kobolds have no commoners or nobles or the like.

>>6878560
When a tribe overpopulates, it splits in half, and the other half leaves and migrates elsewhere. Just like in canon.

>>6878539
The ideas were that kobolds would have either a communist or a facist govenment.
Although it wouldn't be true communism with the effect of a dragon.

>>6878564
What about shamans and sorcerers?

Just draw it as a land of self deception.

Industrious little good hearted dummies live in small tribal groups and spend their short lives mining, growing fungi and mosses, farming rats, brewing mud ale in miasmic pools, making simple tools from driftwood, sharp rocks, and sinew, collecting pet pebbles, paying tribute to the elders who pay the taxes, and always trying to get a good deal out of anyone who comes along.

There might be some larger settlements with some expansive mine systems beneath and a feudal aristocracy ruling with some semblance of order, ultimately worshiping the big bad dragonlords who seem to dominate every aspect of life with cruel and harsh rule (but the few remaining dragons merely enjoy being fed and don't care much about the going ons of the little critters).

But behind this facade of neutrality and obedience, every Kobold knows he can get an edge for himself. As long as he can maintain an image of innocence he will lie, steal, and kill if there's something shiny in it for him. This is why they are rarely found alone or in pairs, crowds have eyes and provide security.

A band of Kobolds will be friendly, if reserved, and a powerful ally if treated nicely. But they will cut your throat while you're sleeping.

Just imagine a horde of Gollums, edit in some Galaxy Quest child-aliens, and top it off with a little cutebold.

>>6878564
Kobolds outlive humans. They are also equally as intelligent, and have a strong sense of community. There's no reason for them to willingly live in squalor when they could potentially be building apartment blocks.

>>6878582

Make it proper, out-of-the-book communism.

>Kurtulmak is displeased at this rampant display of faggotry.

Theft is the second of the moral offenses whose examination we proposed.

If we glance at the history of ancient times, we will see theft permitted, nay, recompensed in all the
Greek republics; Sparta and Lacedaemon openly favored it; several other peoples regarded it as a
virtue in a warrior; it is certain that stealing nourishes courage, strength, skill, tact, in a word, all the
virtues useful to a republican system and consequently to our own. Lay partiality aside, and answer
me: is theft, whose effect is to distribute wealth more evenly, to be branded as a wrong in our day,
under our government which aims at equality? Plainly, the answer is no: it furthers equality and, what
is more, renders more difficult the conservation of property. There was once a people who punished
not the thief but him who allowed himself to be robbed, in order to teach him to care for his property.
This brings us to reflections of a broader scope.
God forbid that I should here wish to assail the pledge to respect property the Nation has just given;
but will I be permitted some remarks upon the injustice of this pledge? What is the spirit of the vow
taken by all a nation's individuals? Is it not to maintain a perfect equality amongst citizens, to subject
them all equally to the law protecting the possessions of all? Well, I ask you now whether that law is
truly just which orders the man who has nothing to respect another who has everything? What are
the elements of the social contract? Does it not consist in one's yielding a little of his freedom and of
his wealth in order to assure and sustain the preservation of each?

>>6878612
Glittergold was here, Kurtulmak is faggots.

Upon those foundations all the laws repose; they justify the punishments inflicted upon him who
abuses his liberty; in the same way, they authorize the imposition of conditions; these latter prevent a
citizen from protesting when these things are demanded of him, because he knows that by means of
what he gives, the rest of what he has is safeguarded for him; but, once again, by what right will he
who has nothing be enchained by an agreement which protects only him who has everything? If, by
your pledge, you perform an act of equity in protecting the property of the rich, do you not commit
one of unfairness in requiring this pledge of the owner who owns nothing? What advantage does the
latter derive from your pledge? and how can you expect him to swear to something exclusively
beneficial to someone who, through his wealth, differs so greatly from him? Certainly, nothing is more
unjust: an oath must have an equal effect upon all the individuals who pronounce it; that it bind him
who has no interest in its maintenance is impossible, because it would no longer be a pact amongst
free men; it would be the weapon of the strong against the weak, against whom the latter would
have to he in incessant revolt. Well, such, exactly, is the situation created by the pledge to respect
property the Nation has just required all the citizens to subscribe to under oath; by it only the rich
enchain the poor, the rich alone benefit from a bargain into which the poor man enters so
thoughtlessly, failing to see that through this oath wrung from his good faith, he engages himself to
do a thing that cannot be done with respect to himself.

Thus convinced, as you must be, of this barbarous inequality, do not proceed to worsen your
injustice by punishing the man who has nothing for having dared to filch something from the man
who has everything: your inequitable pledge gives him a greater right to it than ever. In driving him to
perjury by forcing him to make a promise which, for him, is absurd, you justify all the crimes to which
this perjury will impel him; it is not for you to punish something for which you have been the cause. I
have no need to say more to make you sense the terrible cruelty of chastising thieves. Imitate the
wise law of the people I spoke of just a moment ago; punish the man neglectful enough to let himself
be robbed; but proclaim no kind of penalty against robbery. Consider whether your pledge does not
authorize the act, and whether he who commits it does any more than put himself in harmony with
the most sacred of Nature's movements, that of preserving one's own existence at no matter whose
expense.

>>6878617
Does it count as theft if your goods belong to the community?

Holy TL;DR, Kurtulmak.

>>6878600
That is D&D BS designed to provide yet another race open to PC with minimal stat adjustment and no roleplaying involved whatsoever. This is why a Kender is a Halfling is an human-assimilated dwarf.

>>6878564
I like how you actually factor in how Kobolds are evil, it has been mostly ignored in the previous thread. The reason given is that they developed away from the assults of other races and had no real provocation.

In general, only chaotic evil would kill something sleeping. Playing rougelikes, I completely ignore this though.

>>6878629
Can you please fix your line break? I can't read that without a headache.

>>6878622
Hey look. A gnome bashing kobolds.
Isn't that like twins bashing the other ones parentage?

>>6878650
I prefer using it to just porting downtrodden tribes to a larger area.

They would probably have mating seasons like any other egg-layers. This would probably get heavily ritualized through their religion. Kobold society might be matriarchial, like in elephants, how the wandering groups are comprised of mothers/daughters/sisters and the males only join up for the duration of mating then go back to wandering alone. Though there are many other alternatives.

No alcohol since I think they wouldn't actually cultivate plants except to feed domesticated animals that they then eat. Unless our kobolds aren't strict carnivores.

Early society would resemble native americans, in that they would have to follow the groups of their primary prey animals. Development of domestication/ranching/preservation of meats would start the settlment movement, as opposed to agriculture in humans.

Lots of glory associated with hunting, and consequently warfare with neighboring tribes. Eventual large collective alliances as poulations reach larger numbers.

>>6878656
>In general, only chaotic evil would kill something sleeping.

And kobolds, as I'd like to remind to everyone in general, are lawful evil. They can be pretty damn loyal when they get to know you.

What killed off the humans, dwarves and elves on this continent?

Whoever voted the previous thread down in the archive is a total faggot. Sage for noncontribution.

YAY! ALIGNMENT DISCUSSION!

EVERYBODY WITH AN OPINION IN HERE!!!

>>6878704

Lawful evil seems like as a natural tendency it would not at all favor any sort of altruism even within the group. In ancient greek societies if someone fucked up their farm and had no food for the winter they could try and go begging. Kobolds would probably never offer anything in this sort of case though.

On the other hand, kobolds are carnivores and can hunt at any time of the year. Their lack of altruism would result in powerful family lines ruling the group pretty harshly though.

>>6878665
That would be flooding. I wouldn't dare.

So what do the dragons spend their time doing if there are no other races to war with or enslave?

>>6878730
Oh god, what have i done!?

>>6878778
sex, obviously. This is /tg/.

I'm interpreting this as if the continent is far enough away and the kobolds are here with no dragons, so there is no outside influence.

Primary problems are that magic in D&D makes distance almost meaningless. Hell, a deity could just tell some humans to sail far enough in X direction and kill a continent's worth of kobolds at any time.

>>6878793
That is why, in my opinion, these kobolds need to have discovered blackpowder and metalsmithy.

>>6878702
No, mating seasons are not related to egg-laying, mammals do this as well. It's just that intelligent species tend to fuck for pleasure anytime so they lose it.

>>6878793
There are dragons. The tribes are ruled by them.

>>6878778
>>6878790
Dragons can change shape. Combined with the fact that they're usually pretty alone in the warren full of kobolds...

>>6878793
This is why there are eerily intact rotting wrecks of perfectly moored ships to be found all along the coastline. It appears their sailors arrived and unloaded in perfect condition, but them somehow vanished along with all their valuables or anything not nailed down... until they found the cow's foot.

>>6878820

>>6878808
Pretty much the only species that fuck for pleasure use hidden ovulation. I don't know of a single egg-layer that does this, though we can just say that they do.

He said it was a jungle continent, so I don't know how avaliable metals are. The more abundant natural resources are the less likely a culture is to advance quickly technologically it seems, as well. Why bother getting gunpowder and metal early on when you are surrounded by acessible food?

>>6878849
War with other tribes and having to perforate dragons on the wing.

>>6878793
You raise an interesting point, but even a deity would need some reason to attack. Of course they might simply be evil, but wouldn't local matters take priority?

>>6878844
brb fappan

>>6878849
>Implying firearms were developed for hunting game...

Yeah, local matters would likely take some form of precedence, although the material plane is supposed to be *infinite*.

As for war and dragons... I still think that they would go more the way of native american tribes, who didn't really get smithing as far as I know. Gunpowder was a really chancy thing from what I see. If there are some volcanic regions in the continent that would provide the sulfur and whathaveyou then it might happen by chance.

I actually find it more likely that druidic magic would have been most prevalent to them early on, and they might create firearms using that ironwood spell on hollowed logs and sticks.

WOODEN GUNS.

>>6878933
You can make a rudimentary cannon out of iron. But a musket takes high grade steel, a thing of impossibility without a blast furnace and decades of experience with it. And without industrialization there are not standardized bullets.

Gunpowder Fantasy is shit.

>>6878985
Which is why I ignored it until someone started saying I should consider it. I don't really think it's a good idea.

Oh man I love killing kobolds.

>>6878985
Brotip: muskets predate the Bessemer process

>>6878849
>Pretty much the only species that fuck for pleasure use hidden ovulation. I don't know of a single egg-layer that does this, though we can just say that they do.

Protip: every species has sex for pleasure

>>6879056
Which is why expensive wrought iron was converted to blister steel, creating a much more costly and inferior product.

My CHA 18 dragonbron female warlord has been raped by her two kobold minions.

>>6879096
No. Most fuck for reproduction, and refuse sexual contact during pregnancy and before weaning.

>>6879118
Shouldn't they be terrified of her with that CHA?

>>6879118
Can we have drawfaggotry ?

Okay, out of curiousity I looked up Jungles in wikipedia and realised that they are a small part of a rainforest. A rainforest means sedamentary or sometimes volcanic layers. There will be iron and some other ores around.

>>6879118
I call bullshit. Kobolds respect dragonborn, especially with charisma 18.

Clearly she wanted it. She seduced them, and they were too afraid to refuse. Maybe they had fun, maybe they didn't, but now she seeks to fuck the two up and claim they raped her. Understandably they're scared and confused, the poor things.

>>6878656
>In general, only chaotic evil would kill something sleeping.

... wat

>>6879118
That character sounds familiar. also: lol, rape.
Did the Kobolds somehow overpower your char or something?

>>6879139
Yeah, I was imagining the continent basically being central Africa.

I wasn't aware there would be acessible ore, but I still don't think they would industrialize.

>>6879125
>>6879142
>>6879171
You made it up. Admit it.

>>6879177
Why would they not industrialize?

>>6879205
Industrialization would be a way of increasing resource income. They live in a rich continent. I'm not seeing a motivating force. Dragons are more a reason to stay the fuck away from the mountains or whatever.

There were mentions of large groups splitting after a certain point, along with a few other mechanics that would prevent any population from getting to the point where manufacture and food would even be an issue anyway.

>>6879118
My CHA 19 kobold sorcerer once had consensual lovemaking with a dragonborn.

Actually, ditch that "once".

>>6879171
No, she was just sleeping and the two lizards just thought they could have some fun. However, she wake up (after a second willpower check)...
Let's say she "overpowered" them, after all, was in a good mod.

>>6879279
Still extremely un-koboldlike.

>>6879252
>Dragons are more a reason to stay the fuck away from the mountains or whatever.

They LIVE with the dragons. There are less dragons living in the mountains than in any other DnD type setting, if indeed there are any dragons in the mountains at all.

>>6879279
Whatever DM decided that doesn't know much how kobolds work, now does he.

They don't rape much in the first place, especially dragons or those descending from them.

>>6879304
WoW kobolds rape all the time

>>6879279
Perhaps, but my character managed to made those two fuckers more disciplined and "un-kobold", except for some elements.
By the way, four our DM seems kobolds are big for what really matters.

>>6879293
Entire thread seems to have been ignoring the idea that the kobolds are living in dragon-dominated groups. As far as I'm concerned it's about kobolds alone.

>>6879325
so we're completely ignoring everything decided in the original thread, cool

>>6879272
The dragonborn was the girl in this relationship, wasn't she? Because I can't imagine it working otherwise.

>>6879314
They did that because a member of our group convince them as a kind of bad joke.

>>6879279
>had to make a willpower check to wake up from normal sleep while BEING RAPED

>>6879370
Let's say a ranger and a thief kobold at level one could have a 12 in their stealth skill.

Why is the sequel never as good as the original?

>>6879322
How big?

>>6879414
The original was derailed for a good 3/4 hour or so by cutebolds, dragonborn sex is just this threads version of that.

>>6879414
I dunno, The Godfather Part II was pretty damn awesome. And The Empire Strikes back is probably the best of all the Star Wars films.

>>6879463
Enough for put a gnoll or a minotaur in shame.

>>6879471
And you needed a willpower check to wake up?
lol!

>>6879471
Well, gnomes are also traditionally presented as being fucking hung. No way kobolds are going to be worse in that than their natural enemy.

(I thought kobolds had cloacas.)

>>6879488
I asked the same to the DM and he replied me I was surelly affected by some drug. The session ended before I could discover who was the one who manipulated my character's kobold minions and drug my food and drink.

>>6879507
Try kobold, forgget the centaur, ladies.

>>6879507
>>6879598
Oh god. Imagine if there's even the slightest possibility that cutebolds are similarly endowed. Yet still just as adorably innocent as we have established them to be.

Cue hordes of human women abducting poor cutebold boys and changing their lives forever.

>>6878495

Since Kobolds fuck so much questions of blood inheritance are going to be very hard to settle.

So property rights and title would either have to revert to the entire community on the death of the owner, or you'd have guilds or similar organizations where a kobold joins up, and is cared for by the guild, but everything they create remains guild property.

Kobolds would overpopulate the continent fairly quickly, which means they either have to be constantly at war with each other (both for resources and as a way of using up younger kobolds) or they have to have a Spartan style approach to child rearing in order to keep their own growth in check. Or both.

Hmmm... Kobold Spartans. Hell, the Roman Republic might also be a good model.

>>6879748
I imagined they would lack welfare/etc so only so many as could be maintained by the food supply etc would ever survive. There would end up being some balance of deaths from war/famine/disease and the birth rate.

>Kobolds can eat a wide variety of foodstuffs, drawing nutrition from a broad, omnivorous diet. Evil kobolds have no scruples when it comes to eating, even considering other intelligent creatures as options for the stewpot. Kobolds who are desperate for food, especially when traveling through cold regions, can eat almost anything. They can metabolize many forms of organic matter, including
bark, bones, dirt, leather, and shells. A tribe of kobolds that is short on provisions feeds its youngest members whatever they can eat.
Out of interest, this is what RotD has to say about Kobold diet.

I would imagine that there would be at least some history of relationship with nations not on the continent. Anyone want to expand the thought?

>>6880169
I'd imagine the dragon overlors would want them to go and bring back loot for the hoard.

>>6880244

I'm pretty sure dragons aren't in charge of this land of kobolds. I'd just think it would be interesting if there were some trade routes that went dead, and it gives an excuse for kobolds to have very elfy or dorfy gear.

>>6880272
I interpret the Evil part of their alignment as making them highly xenophobic to the point of killing outsiders without warning. Although kobolds aren't the thoughest things, so likely they do this mostly when they need to expand/the outsiders come into their territory. I also figure it means they kill unrelated conspecifics, which means that war between tribes/clans/whatever would be extremely common.

>>6880316
I caught the dumb and posted too soon.

Since they wouldn't realy trust any other races, let alone strange kobolds, I imagine that if a trade route and a kobold group happened to intersect at some point it might result in them trying to ambush and steal everything.

They might also try and take over the settlements of other races, in some cases.

>>6880344

Perhaps, but unless kobolds are racially too stupid to think for the future, I can see them not trying to screw everyone.

Besides, alignment is a little bit silly.

Also, since the kobolds seem to be pretty Greek, and the Greeks were willing to trade and shit with everyone, I can see the kobolds being civil to other races, even if they really wish that they would take their stuff.

Fun facts:
Normal Kobolds trade with other races disguised as that race
Evil is just the majority alignment

>>6880480
This could work. Regardless of what you think of alignment, the Kobolds place in the (typical) world as "those little fuckers who steal everything" makes them uniquely suited to jobs as fences. If you want an X, you can bet that the kobolds have an X, you just have to convince one of the smarter ones to trade with you.

>>6880505

I'm fine with sterotypin' fantasy races, just that alignment doesn't really do it in interesting way.

>>6880420
The Greeks did a lot of raiding and stealing from everyone.

>>6880480
Further fun facts:
Although these kobolds are supposed to serve the warren, sometimes they go rogue and start thinking of becoming independent. They save money until they have enough to start their own mine, then get some more kobolds along with them to rebel and leave to this new place, where they will be the ones in charge.

Even further fun facts:
The kobold chiefs encourage this, and choose smart and resourceful and charismatic kobolds to be the merchants. This way the troublemakers are kept away, and the spreading of kobolds is further escalated.

Mammals NOT Lizard!

>>6881696
They are definitely not true mammals (cold blooded) or true reptiles. Some sort of mix of both.

I just don't like how the croc/lizard ones look...I much preffered the ones with the mammalian features.

Then again my only real contact with DnD was the Baldur's Gate games which used 2nd ed.