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  • File : 1256427577.jpg-(78 KB, 800x559, Dante'sMap.jpg)
    78 KB Novus Abyssus - the New HEll Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:39 No.6417450  
    I did not create this setting. It was posted on /tg/ a day or so ago and I've been editing and adding to it since in anticipation of running a campaign using this setting.

    The First Circle has rebelled. The virtuous pagans, the enlightened unbelievers and the well-meaning heretics have all risen up from their City of Artificial Light to bring war and freedom to the lower Circles.

    All Circles bar the final two have fallen before the endless armies of mortal spirits, though the two before them are too rife with wandering demons to be anything but a wilderness and safety is no guarantee in even the highest Circles, so chaotically are they affected by the recent upheavals in Hellish politics.

    A new order has arrived in Hell, far removed from the First-Among-Fallen, trapped and raging in his cell at the icy center of the Inferno. The Mortal Order, though divided and frail, stretches across most of the abyss, fording rivers of blood, bridging cliffs of bone, marching over roads of half-cooled lava. Its cities and townships are inhabited by souls from every period, all of those too bright to become demons and too tarnished for Paradise's liking, speaking in unison the universal tongue of Babel.
    >> Novus Abyssus Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:40 No.6417460
    Perhaps you are a soldier under one of the great warrior-kings, incarcerated in Hell and then freed - a warrior of Boudicca's Woad Legion, tirelessly and rowdily keeping the peace around the border to Purgatory. You may be a rider in the Seventh Horde of the Great Khan, subordinate to one of his thousand nephews as they sweep across the Dodo Plains, dust ground from the bones of a million extinct species blowing about clawed hooves. Mayhap you are even a foot-soldier in Alexander's Last Push, besieging the twisted and blackly metaphorical walls of Pandemonium itself with siege engines of soul-hardened wood and polished brass.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:41 No.6417472
    You could be a trader, part of a caravan carrying ashen spices, bubbling brews and delectable meats of dubious provenance from the Third Circle's presses and farms, three-headed guard dogs settling ‘round your camp to keep watch in three shifts for the night. Or maybe you're hauling weapons that forever glow red-hot from the forges of the Fifth Circle bundled alongside precious beetle-like stones and liquid gold from the mines of the Fourth, ready to guard against theft by the infamous bandits and green-eyed monsters of the Invidian Hills. Perhaps you take your wares by barge or salvaged galleon, traveling up and down the treacherous and shifting River Styx, your journey's main way-point the port city of Iracedia, its harbor set on the shores of the Lake Stygia, the living battleship Leviathan guarding its safety.
    >> Richard Motion 10/24/09(Sat)19:41 No.6417474
    I ride with the glorious army of Sala a-din.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:42 No.6417478
    Of course, you may be a more traditional adventurer, a modern skeptic traveling this weird and hellish afterlife alongside a Viking berserker, a heretical warrior-monk of the dark ages, an Elizabethan victim of the Inquisition and a millennia-dead Grecian witch. Together you search for the Resplendently Golden City of Mammon, mythical even in Hell. Or perhaps for demonic lore sealed in clay tablets of Babylon and yellowed pages of Edwardian tomes, lost even to the prying eyes of the fallen angels. You may seek battle with some creature of the deep, some Gorge-beast or Stained Glass Mantis, or one of the un-slain demons that still roam the upper Circles - the Gristle Pilgrim or Good Lady Ratchet or J'ul-shannazar.
    >> Richard Motion 10/24/09(Sat)19:42 No.6417486
    Though I think this setting might be a little better if it focused on the conquest of hell back from the fallen angels.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:42 No.6417487
    Maybe you've even been unlucky enough to get yourself involved in the politics of the First City of Limbo, running interference between the various cults, guilds, block-wide fiefdoms and rival businesses - negotiating a truce between the Aristotelians and Socratics in Club Plato, investigating the murder of a wealthy Hellion and the blood-straw-and-porcelain thing that has legitimately taken her place, or attempting to prevent an assassination attempt by a deranged devotee of Ovid during a poetic reading of Homer's latest work, an vast epic spanning volumes that has been centuries in the making.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:43 No.6417495
    Whatever you do, whoever you are - whatever you've done, whoever you were - this is New Hell. A frontier far wilder, inherently cruel and marvelously twisted than any that might have been found in life. Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:44 No.6417499
    On the Subject of the Dukes: while one or two were confirmed dead in the rebellion and even now the head of Midas decorates the uppermost spire of the First City's highest tower, the remainder of Hell’s Duchy stalk the infinite fortress of Pandemonium, plotting and fuming and howling at the besieging force of Alexander outside their gates. Satan, meanwhile, broods in the depths of the Ninth Circle, where no mortal has set foot and returned. Whether Dante's description is accurate, no-one knows. What they do know is that Lucifer is an entity second only to Jehovah himself. Should the Eighth Circle ever be conquered...? It would perhaps be best to simply leave the Ninth alone.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:45 No.6417511
    On the Subject of Angelic Involvement: infiltrations of the First City of Limbo by agents of the Heavenly Host are not unknown and the occasional scouting parties sent forth into the grey mists and rusted elevators of Purgatory have noted the distant, golden light of angels circling above. Caesar claims to have done battle with one and parted on respectful terms, though this seems unlikely in the extreme. Witnesses describe the angels as seeming cautious and the infiltrators appear aimless, poking around, almost... lost. One oddly genial angel found wandering the wastes of the Seventh Circle by Heidrich Wallace and his travelling Musikalisks has proven himself to be more talkative by far than any of his divine kin.

    Through polite and careful questioning he revealed that on the matter of the Mortal Inferno, God Himself is speechless. Indeed, thus far the observed attitude of the Host toward The Men Below consists almost entirely of simple disdain with an undertone of fear. It's almost as though they fear the same happening Above, but who would rebel against Paradise? In fact, who is IN Paradise? The last Heaven-bound souls seen by those Below were reported almost two thousand years ago, when Christ made his grand tour of the Lowest Realm. Surely it can't be that the streets of the Holiest Land are empty? Surely it can't be that God Himself has fallen silent? Could it be possible that Heaven itself is running on a skeleton crew?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:45 No.6417522
    On the Subject of Memory: in the passage to Hell, most people lose much of their memory - some consider this a final cruel touch by Lucifer, punishing mortals for sins unremembered, while others believe it to be an act of God, part of the necessary cleansing that must take place before forgiveness. Still others believe that chunks of their memories were stolen by things from beyond Heaven or Hell, creatures with neither form nor function, throbbing eyes and anglerfish teeth in a sea of impossible angles, while more claim it is an (un)natural phenomenon, as though their ability to recollect was torn off on some jutting stone spire on the Long Way Down and remains there still, waving like a shredded banner.

    An interesting correlation noted by practicing Psyentysts is that it is often those souls most noted by new arrivals to be famous or well-remembered who themselves possess the most memories, some even going so far as to claim that they've had the faded sections of their past restored by a renaissance in the Living Land. Saladin, for example, has stated that he remembers all of his life that he might have when living - something unlikely in the extreme for Joe Bloggs, an average man who would be lucky to remember much more than his name, though his tastes and instincts would remain with him in the afterlife.

    Hrafnkell, a scholar of some renown in the Frozen Township, has put forward comparisons to the medieval practice of remembering the dead, having monks pray for their souls. Might this have been some crude recognition of the effect that fame (or infamy) has on a Hellion? Most don't really care - they'd rather get on with their lives (if that's the proper term). Some rare few actively try to awaken their memories, while others recognize that they might be in Hell for reasons darker than being a virtuous pagan and would rather the cobwebs in their brain stay tightly-woven.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:46 No.6417530
    What follows are descriptions of the Circles and their landmarks, but I have not yet finished them.

    Again, I offer my respect to the originator of the idea.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:54 No.6417609
    So, who DID come up with this?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:54 No.6417616
    I didn't catch the original, but this is very promising. What sort of system are you planning to use for it, OP?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:56 No.6417636
    >>6417616
    We'll be using Mutants and Masterminds with the Warriors and Warlocks splatbook to help us handle the fantasy setting, with PL6/90pp character creation.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)19:59 No.6417676
    >>6417636
    Sounds great.
    Any specific rules for memory recovering and related memory stuff?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:02 No.6417700
    >>6417676
    Players will begin the game as Shades, damned souls either newly-arrived in Hell or newly reconstituted after the destruction of their corporeal forms. They will recover their memories as the game proceeds, starting with little more than personality-traits.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:02 No.6417708
    Everyone in this thread should read 'Inferno' by Larry Niven. It's a modern day take of Dante's Inferno and has some of the diffrient methods of punishment 'updated'.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:05 No.6417730
    >>6417708
    "Inferno is based upon the hell described in Dante's Inferno. However, it adds a modern twist to the story. The story is told in the first person by Allen Carpentier (né Carpenter), an agnostic science fiction writer who died in a failed attempt to entertain his fans at a Science fiction convention party. He is only released, after many decades, from a Djinn-bottle in the Vestibule on the outer edge to Hell when he finally calls upon God for mercy. Upon release he is met by Benito, a Virgil-like figure whose full identity is not immediately apparent. Benito offers to take him out of Hell by bringing him to the center."
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:08 No.6417771
    Reminds me of Rebirth from the Requiem the Cavalier Vampire.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:11 No.6417807
    >Iracedia
    What?
    >Heidrich Wallace and his travelling Musikalisks
    Who?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:17 No.6417870
    This sounds quite nice.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:26 No.6417955
    >>6417807
    Does anyone know? Google turns up nothing.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:32 No.6418017
    >>6417955
    >>6417807
    OP here, I'm not sure either. Google search leads back to the original thread. They may just have been made up by the original author.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:34 No.6418050
    It's an intriguing idea for an intresting setting, but i'm sure that many of the inhabitants of this settings might ask this question: what gave the mortals shades the power to free themselves from the demons and to partly regain their physical form to even begin the rebellion? Was it part of an Ineffable plan from above? Is it simply a cruel joke by Lucifer, who wants to give false hope to the damned to squash them again?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:37 No.6418091
    Join Saladin's and Alexander's WAAAAAUGH.

    Find Muhammad. BITCHES AND WHORES.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:43 No.6418175
    archive this!
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:44 No.6418178
    >>6418050
    That's part of the mystery of what's going on. All mortal souls in Hell have a physical body so that they can be tortured. 'Shade' implies a Hellion that is either new to Hell or has only just returned from Oblivion, the black nothing that exists outside of Heaven and Hell and is the place where 'dead' souls go to reform.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:45 No.6418190
    >>6418178
    But you mentioned Demons having been killed in the rebellion. If they can just return from Oblivion, why aren't they causing trouble?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:49 No.6418232
    >>6418190
    They return as Shades, just like any other Hell-bound soul. It will take many centuries for them to regain even a fraction of their former powers. They'll not be threats to the Mortal Order for a very long time.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)20:50 No.6418242
    >>6418232
    >>6418178
    I should mention again that I'm not the original author, only an editor and an adder, and that my opinions on these matters may not reflect those of the originator.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)21:02 No.6418383
    Here's what I'm telling my players via instant-messenger:

    "Okay. You'll begin the game as shades. A shade is a soul that is either new to Hell or recently returned from the black nothingness of Oblivion, a sub-dimensional plane where damaged souls go to reform before returning to Hell for further torment. As a shade you have no memories of your mortal life or, if there were any, your previous existence in Hell. You will be largely powerless, possessing no supernatural abilities, although they may develop in time either independently or in relation to your reclaimed memories. You will have personality-traits, instincts and preferences but no personal memories. Those will be revealed as the game progresses. Feel free to feed me memories to reveal to your characters at certain points or, if you'd rather be surprised, I'd be willing to do that for you."
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)21:06 No.6418448
    >>6418383
    So your characters will be starting as literal blank slates?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)21:10 No.6418509
    >>6418448
    Exactly.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)21:31 No.6418810
    Someone archive this for posterity.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)21:47 No.6419011
         File1256435225.jpg-(31 KB, 378x414, Number10-LuxordsGamblerNobody.jpg)
    31 KB
    >>6418448
    this seems familiar
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)21:48 No.6419037
    >>6419011
    I... don't know what this is.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)21:55 No.6419126
    >>6419037
    Gambler Nobody from Kingdom Hearts 2.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)21:57 No.6419143
         File1256435821.jpg-(31 KB, 345x816, Oathkeeper.jpg)
    31 KB
    >>6419037
    here's the key to your dillema
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)21:57 No.6419144
    >>6419011
    >>6419126

    Nobodies didn't have any emotions. They, in fact, couldn't even -feel- emotions. They did have no memories, however.
    >> The Chairman 10/24/09(Sat)21:59 No.6419160
    >>6419144
    I call bullshit.

    If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a fucking duck. Nobodies repeatedly and intensely displayed their own emotions. "You can't feel anything" was just a mantra Sora chanted at himself so he wouldn't feel bad for murdering human beings.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:01 No.6419189
    >>6418050
    It just happened. There was some planning on the human's part. What most likely happened was that enough humans had entered Hell and began outnumbering the demons in great numbers. The humans realized that they could effectively rebel against the demons on many of the circles without losing too many souls to oblivion.

    Revlid, the original creator, mentioned that death in Hell is a permanent death where the soul goes to oblivion and ceases to exist. There is no reincarnation ever after that.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:04 No.6419230
    >>6418050

    Originally, the setting didn't have shades. Humans arrived in their physical form. Humans in Hell have a limited regenerative ability (so they could be tortured more effectively).

    Also, the theme of this setting is "Wild West in Hell." Technology reaches it's pinnacle right at the pre-WWI era. A lot of technology incorporates demonic magic as well as organic machines and such.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:06 No.6419242
    >>6419189
    That's one of the main differences between my campaign and his, and it's only an aesthetic one. I don't see there being a death after death, and so Oblivion is a hospice for shredded souls. If your soul is shredded in my game you won't be allowed to play that character again, because it'd mean starting over from scratch anyway and the time spent in Oblivion is measured in centuries. I should have been clearer - if your character 'dies,' he's not really dead, but you can't play him again. It's aesthetic and nothing more.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:07 No.6419256
    >>6419242
    Does this mean that one of your characters could be a deposed demon, killed in or shortly after the rebellion, and returned as a shade?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:10 No.6419289
    >>6417530

    Two prominent landmarks mentioned were "Sinew Pass" and the "Foetus Seaway."

    Sinew Pass was where Demon-Hitler was killed/banished to the Oblivion. Rommel leads the Fourth Redemption Reich to atone for the sin of the Nazis.

    Foetus Seaway is exactly what it sounds like. It is a squirming ocean of fetuses and babies who were not able to reach Heaven. Since humans in Hell cannot conceive children naturally (hellspawn sprog usually pop out), "fishermen" ply the Foetus Seaway in great sail-age boats trying to find "good" children to sell back to desperate couples. These babies don't develop normally however; they are more like vegetation or malnourished animals.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:13 No.6419331
    >>6419230

    To give you guys more ideas, two possible characters thought up was a modern day desk jockey with a flintlock pistol firing exploding knuckle bones and a viking with a grafted demon arm and a clockwork axe.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:13 No.6419333
    >>6419289
    "The Second Circle: the first Circle in which souls were punished, the Second Circle was occupied by those of a lustful nature. Great storms stir the landscape, powerful enough to push a Hellion from his feet. The Second Circle is home to the Fetal Seaway, an entire ocean of stillborn or aborted children; a wailing sea of forsaken youth, sailed by men with hard hearts and dead stares that cast their great nets down to drag them up in squealing masses so that their untarnished souls might be used in the gruesome creation of Hellish technologies. This foul business is a sad necessity, for without the grim weapons and armor spawned by such dark rituals the Mortal Order would be defenseless against their demonic oppressors."

    >>6419256
    Yes, though I'd prefer that they didn't. I'd rather reserve that for an NPC plot-device in the future.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:14 No.6419340
    >>6419289
    Would you happen to remember on which Circle the Sinew Pass resided?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:15 No.6419348
    nobs, the correct way to play this scenario is making the pc's demon lords or demon vassals that are sent out in elite contingencies by Satan to quell the rebelion.

    Whether they follow orders is a different story entirely.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:16 No.6419359
    Has anyone actually read Dante's Inferno? I don't get it. Lucifer was imprisoned along with everyone else, and the dudes he was OM NOMMING deserved it.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:18 No.6419392
    >>6419340

    It was never mentioned. Personally, I envision Sinew Pass as a massive rent running through a length of towering, massive, black mountains. The walls of the pass are living organic material. Sinews of all sizes criss-cross between the walls of the pass. The ground is unpleasantly fleshy and vague shapes in the walls of the pass threaten to swallow travelers.

    The humans harvest the sinews of the pass for use as rope for whatever application they need.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:20 No.6419406
    >>6419392
    Sounds like it belongs on the Fifth Circle to me, then.

    Thank you.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:20 No.6419416
         File1256437249.jpg-(91 KB, 500x333, 3188973935_097664d1f2.jpg)
    91 KB
    >>6419392
    What don't you get? Lucifer is imprisoned in hell, just like all the demons and humans that make it there. Hell was never a good place to be, there is no one "ruling" it. Every single soul in hell is being punished.

    >>6419359
    Forgot my pic.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:22 No.6419425
    >>6419359
    He was immobilized in ice and was chewing on betrayers, namely Judas, Brutus, and Cassius. You don't think the choice of betrayers speaks of a certain bias in the Italian who wrote the thing?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:23 No.6419437
    >>6419416
    So why is the relation between humans and demons simple us vs them? Or is that just the way the human establishment interprets it?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:23 No.6419440
    Wow, someone picked this guys idea up. I'm the dude who chucked in the demon list.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:24 No.6419448
    >>6419425
    Maybe Lucifer just really thought Julius Caesar and his fellow Morningstar were really awesome chaps.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:25 No.6419456
    So is the New Order in full military autocracy mode while the lower circles are still being seiged, or is it every soul for himself?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:32 No.6419523
    >>6419437
    It was mentioned that the Demons act out of hatred. Since they are forever trapped in hell, they will not allow even the littlest unbaptized baby a way out of their realm.

    >>6419456
    It depends on the circle. The upper circles have functional civilizations run by the old, dead philosopher kings of ages past. They are mostly peaceful. As you go lower though, society becomes more and more fractured until you just have war tribes on the 6th circle. The 7th circle is dominated by the various human military forces such as Rommel's Fourth Redemption Reich, Alexander's Last Push, etc... trying to keep the demons back.
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    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:41 No.6419612
    >>6419359
    Hell is distance from the grace of god. Punishment is the mere externalisation of unredeemable sin.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:42 No.6419624
    >>6419523
    Ah okay, thanks.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:44 No.6419635
    >>6419612
    A pity there's no such thing as a god.

    Makes the whole "eternal punishment" bit a huge masochistic wank, really.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:46 No.6419663
    >>6419635

    Er? This is a setting in HELL. Why would there not be a God? He's a fairly fundamental piece of backstory.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:50 No.6419697
    >>6419663

    I think he's just being a self-righteous atheist for some reason.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:50 No.6419700
    >>6419635

    The backstory behind Heaven and God isn't very good either. Heaven is more or less empty; it's essentially being operated by a skeleton crew. The alternate story is that heaven's inhabitants are mysteriously disappearing. In either case, God isn't answering. No one knows why, has God died? Is some other force preventing him from communicating? Or is this all part of his plan? Either way, the angels are genuinely worried.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:53 No.6419722
    >>6419635

    Aww fuck, there's no such thing as dragons and dwarfs either. Guess we shouldn't play any of those games from now on, huh?
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:53 No.6419727
    >>6419456

    An awful lot of Type-A Squared personalities are going to be kicking around hell. I'd imagine that it's only the threat of Lucifer down in the ice keeps them from turning on each other openly, and I'm also sure there's a fuckton of intrigue going on.

    In addition to the generals, folks like Nixon, Cardinal Richelieu, Kissenger, The entire Borgia family, Talleyrand and Enrico Dandolo Doge of Venice are all going to be kicking around down there.

    An adventure might involve sabotaging the forces of the new order in order to keep the stalemate up.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:54 No.6419738
    >>6419697
    Thought-killing Christfag piece of shit.

    >>6419700
    You can do a setting such as this without all-powerful greater beings.
    Technological hell for instance with bio-weapons and ancient nanotech indistinguishable from transforming humanoid monsters and grotesque environment.
    It doesn't absolutely need divine punishment at core but it can if OP wishes.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:56 No.6419756
    Conversely a spiritual setting can exist without divinity.
    Explore other options.
    Don't be such fucking biblethumpers /tg/.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:58 No.6419768
    >>6419727

    There are also A LOT of human scum in hell as you can imagine. Most of the killers, murderers, sociopaths, and downright crazy people in Hell have found themselves more powerful than they were in life. Since humans in hell have limited magical abilities, these former scum present just as great of a threat as any demon.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)22:59 No.6419780
    >>6419756

    We're really not, it's just some deranged atheist coming in and announcing that god doesn't exist in a fictional setting brainstorm.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:00 No.6419789
    >>6419768
    OP here, exactly.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:10 No.6419877
    >>6419780
    Yeah that's me.
    In reality, god doesn't exist.
    In fiction, god doesn't need to exist but could.
    You are confusing both and slinging posts around as if fiction were fact.

    Not that this update would change your dogma-sodden brain but it's worth to point out for the less devout in /tg/.

    >>6419727
    That's a matter of moral relativism.
    You might very well find everyone in hell if any individual can be judged by others, or select nationalities/religions if the One True Judeo-Christian Divinity slaps his cock in their collective faces for being different.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:15 No.6419933
    >>6419877
    Man, stop being such a troll. Even if you're serious, I can't imagine anyone in /tg/ devout enough to care about your rambling.

    >You might very well find everyone in hell
    Basically, everyone IS in Hell. The guy who came up with this setting basically said that people were being judged by both testaments. Only an extremely small percentage of the human population is reaching Heaven which is why it is so damn empty.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:24 No.6420041
    >>6419933
    No. Everyone. No one is beyond moral relativism if that's the case.
    You'd be judged without being present, and before you're born at that.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:27 No.6420072
    >>6420041
    Sure, if that's how you wanted to set it up. My variation is that 1 in a million is getting in.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:28 No.6420087
    One of the largest factions in Hell would obviously be the League of Militant Godless comprised almost entirely of communists. Guided by two principles: to roll back the circles and to locate and reeducate their opponents from life.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:38 No.6420209
    >>6420087
    Are you thinking what I'm thinking Comrade Nguyen?
    I certinly am, Comrade Giap!

    NIXON HUNT THROUGH HELL
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:41 No.6420251
    >>6420087

    That'd probably be a pretty big theme in the game. Some humans aren't concerned with their situation and pursue the same goals they did in life.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:50 No.6420340
    >>6419933
    >>Basically, everyone IS in Hell. The guy who came up with this setting basically said that people were being judged by both testaments. Only an extremely small percentage of the human population is reaching Heaven which is why it is so damn empty.

    That is speculation. The last time anyone in Hell saw somebody go to Heaven was during the time of Christ's harrowing 2,000 years ago. However it is a popular belief since there has been no divine intervention since the revolution. Hell has zero intel on the matter since they only get amnesiac shades who died.

    Some Anons keep bringing up how and why the Revolution happened. Clearly it was the influence of the Modern Age. Much larger populations, brought up on an ethos of of Liberty, Equality and Fraternity will not put up with Hellish shennigans once their memories return. The French, Soviet, American and countless other revolutionaries killed before they could plant their flag saw tyranny and took it down.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:51 No.6420362
    >>6420340
    OP here, this is what I'm thinking.
    >> Anonymous 10/24/09(Sat)23:56 No.6420423
    >>6420340
    Except most revolutionaries would be in Cirno most Cold, ⑨, buried in the ice, for betraying their lords.

    Washington, Che, Lenin, Robespierre, Marat. The fire of their spirits is melting the ice from the inside out. But they have not breeched the surface yet.

    Comrades. We must liberate the bringers of light.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)00:09 No.6420584
    >>6420423
    Wow. That's surprisingly profound. But that would mean that the players couldn't ride into battle alongside George Washington, which makes me sad as a GM.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)00:13 No.6420630
    >>6420423

    Then eighth and ninth Circles are still demon controlled. Seventh is a warzone. The setting as it is currently setup will not allow anyone to reach the Ninth Circle. That's where Satan exists, as well as the only exit of Hell. Maybe the players can attempt a dangerous rescue, but I would never let any humans settle in the eighth or ninth as that would open up a totally new game.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)00:17 No.6420698
    >>6420630
    Player characters are designed for penetrating the forbidden.

    The Committee for the Reconstruction of a Fourth International demands that Leon Trotsky be liberated. Here is your ice-pick. Good luck.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)00:19 No.6420717
    >>6420698
    Ironic... Trotsky saved with an ice pick...
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)00:34 No.6420913
    >>6420717
    Oh, man, that's funny.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)00:55 No.6421161
    >>6420340
    >during the time of Christ's harrowing 2,000 years ago
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)00:58 No.6421192
    >>6421161
    You're the atheist, aren't you? Please go away.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)01:06 No.6421296
    >>6421192
    Don't worry, he's probably a Touhoufag and doesn't realise they're Nihon gods and monsters.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)01:08 No.6421326
    >>6421192
    I would say same to you but you're one of... those people.

    >>6421296
    That would be greatly preferred to yet another Abrahamic fanwank.
    It's as if these churchtards get offended by NOT using monotheism and divine punishment in a spiritual setting.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)01:17 No.6421455
    >>6421326
    Dante's cosmology is immediately appreciable to all people.

    I remember we had a Mahabaratha thread on /tg/ last night.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)01:22 No.6421527
    >>6421326
    Being a religious man makes me no more a bad person than being an atheist makes you a good one.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)01:26 No.6421563
    >>6420423
    Would that include people who were betrayed by their lords first?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)01:27 No.6421579
    >>6421563
    I would assume that if a lord mistreated his vassals there's no real way to betray him, as he never commanded your respect in the first place.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)01:27 No.6421588
    >>6421563
    Definitely. You have to remember the era in which Dante's Inferno was conceived.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)01:40 No.6421739
    >>6420423
    Che didn't betray any lords. I don't *think* Lenin did, either.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)01:45 No.6421799
    >>6421739
    Lenin was a subject of the Tsar.
    Che illegally entered Batista's Cuba.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)01:50 No.6421855
    Has this been archived yet? It really deserves it.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)02:21 No.6422197
    >>6417807
    Seriously, what are these?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)03:27 No.6422805
    >>6420423

    Man that is a hardcore (and not incompatible with the setting) interpretation. Washington, Che, Lenin, Robespierre...all the heroes of Liberty, Equality and Fraternity trapped in the Ninth Circle under ice alongside Satan.

    No wonder the humans are pressing their war against the tyrant demons so hard. Fuck their 7th Circle fortifications. Any dead or damned from the USA with an ounce of courage should kill or die to save General Washington.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)08:09 No.6425812
    cool thread, but the background needs still more work.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)08:40 No.6426017
    >>6421326
    As a fellow atheist, just fuck off moron. This thread was kinda cool until you fagged it up with your anti-everything religious bullshit.
    Everyone else, keep entertaining me.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)11:54 No.6427513
    >the dudes he was OM NOMMING deserved it.

    No they didn't. By definition, nobody deserves infinite punishment for finite crimes.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:03 No.6427586
    I always thought the character of the adversary should be more fleshed out

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Satan

    none of these descriptions really contradict each other, so you could have the Faustian enlightenment figure touring the upper echelons of society enjoying mortal delights of ice cream sundaes while spreading propaganda that no one can confirm the validity of and scaring medieval farm hands by turning into a goat for the lulz apparently. He appears equally likely to god to have engineered this whole scenario.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:06 No.6427613
    >>6427513
    Don't turn this into a religious debate, that is not the point of this thread. It's a setting brainstorm so stop with all the religious/atheist bullshit arguing. You don't have to religious to appreciate this setting.

    >>6427586
    I don't really like that idea very much since this is based on Dante's Divine Comedy. Satan is a massive beast half-encased in a massive glacier with no hope of escape. He is arguably suffering more than anyone else in Hell.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:09 No.6427636
    There were two general explanations for how people are appearing in hell and when they appeared. The first one was that Hell's timeline roughly parallels modern day timeline. When a person dies, he experiences an indeterminable "death lag" before appearing in Hell. So, you have people appearing in roughly the order of death. The other explanation was that Earth's history ends on 2012 and that dead humans randomly appear in hell from all over the human timeline. Both cases prevent future spacemen from showing up.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:11 No.6427651
    >>6427613
    Its hardly Dante's divine comedy anymore and shape changers are gonna wiggle their way into this anyway so why not expand on it? Honestly calling this place hell any longer seems inaccurate as its more of a dumping ground for various afterlives.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:11 No.6427657
    >>6427513
    According to Islam even Satan will be forgiven by God but it's a long wait and he is at the end of the queue.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:11 No.6427661
    Bump for more awesome.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:13 No.6427670
    >>6427513
    Your theology obviously is incapable of contemplating the infinite nature of separation from God in certain sins.

    Crimes are mortal and finite. Sin is by its nature infinite.

    Fucking amateur atheists engaging in theology. Skill up if you want to play with the Jesuits.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:17 No.6427720
    >>6427651

    I said it's based on the Divine Comedy. I just think that Satan running around isn't very good for the setting. God and Satan are more a part of the background, sort of like the Lady of Pain I guess. They wouldn't take an active involvement in the game at all. The players would most likely be dealing with dead historical figures, fighting demons, and crafting various magical devices from resources harvested in Hell.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:22 No.6427772
    >>6427720
    Allied infernal the sodomist creeps up the walls of the pit his aim is to take Plato, and to pull him into the eighth.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:22 No.6427775
    >>6427720
    Right.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:24 No.6427795
    I respect the Divine Comedy too much to hyperventilating nerds shit it up.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:24 No.6427798
    >>6427670
    >pretending that infinite punishment is ever appropriate
    Man, the shit people tell themselves to justify outrageous beliefs...
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:26 No.6427815
    >>6427670
    >the infinite nature of separation from God in certain sins.
    Worthless theobabble.

    No matter how hard you try, you can't make that shit make sense. Sin is an arbitrary fictional construct.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:26 No.6427820
    So in this setting, would Hell have flora and fauna besides the humans and demons that already inhabit the place? I can't remember Dante's Inferno very well, but I don't recall him ever describing any animals down there except for the ones that were obviously special. I'd imagine that there would some form of limited infernal ecosystem in this Hell.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:26 No.6427825
    >>6427670
    Why bother? Theology is just the art of bullshitting.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:27 No.6427830
    Derail imminent! Warning! Warning! Derail imminent!
    >> OP 10/25/09(Sun)12:28 No.6427839
    >>6427820
    The Third Circle: the former home of the gluttonous, prisoners here would be forced to lie in a vile slush made by freezing rain, black snow and hail as punishment for their gorging tendencies in life. Now free of their torments the Hellions of the Third Circle tend to the newly-created farms, tilling the volcanic soil and growing the strange vegetables that thrive in the heat as well as raising and ranching the quarrelsome hellbeasts that proliferate within this layer of the Inferno. Their efforts provide the Mortal Order with an infinite supply of food. Though death by starvation is not as much a concern in Hell as it was in life, the pangs of hunger and thirst still affect any Hellion that does not often partake of food and drink.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:28 No.6427844
    >>6427670
    >Look at me! I don't understand that punishment is negative reinforcement, and that infinite punishment completely defeats the purpose as it doesn't change behavior!
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:29 No.6427854
    >>6427795
    You accidentally an entire bottle?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:31 No.6427869
    >>6427798
    >>6427815

    Yes and the quantum phlebonium operates in terms of distance from the Primum movens. Learn your setting.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:31 No.6427870
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    >>6427795
    You think we're shitting the Divine Comedy up? Oh, do I have the game for you...

    >>6427839
    It was mentioned that hunger and thirst won't weaken a human in hell. Rather, it just gets worse and worse until the person starts going crazy and turns into a cannibal or something.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:32 No.6427882
    >>6427844
    Greentext? go back to /v/
    >> OP 10/25/09(Sun)12:34 No.6427901
    >>6427870
    That's why I went with 'pangs'. It hurts them, terribly so, as would normal starvation, but a soul cannot die of it.

    Pain, though, is a powerful motivator.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:36 No.6427931
    >>6427844
    That was actually Allen Carpentier's position on the whole thing as he wandered through hell.
    "They're suffereing for all eternity! What's the point!"
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:38 No.6427952
    Damnit, where are those pictures of hell: the ones with the glistening black rock, crumbling architecture, lightening and eyes...
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:41 No.6427982
    >>6427931
    The point is that behaviour change is impossible in hell, and living sins are now locked in place. This is a pre-modern view of identity. This is why modern humans are fighting back against hell.

    For a truly modern hell, see any of the "they're stupid, and they keep doing it" hells of late, grey suburban hells.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:45 No.6428027
    >>6427982
    Hey, I understand that, it just took the guy in he book awhile to figure it out.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:51 No.6428097
    >>6427982
    Do we like the idea that the revolution was brought about by an influx of modernist thinkers?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:52 No.6428108
    There are NOT a lot of clear-thinkers in hell and those are in a nigh endless debate in the first city's forums arguing to Plato what he actually meant and who was responsible for what which explains a lot of the unknowns that are still present in hell. to make things worse certain souls stubbornly cling to their beliefs saying their in Valhalla or Hades and what not and have proven difficult to persuade otherwise for either their lack of belief in reason and ironically no conclusive evidence to the contrary(This IS the river Styx yes!But-No It wasn't mentioned in the bible and yes daimon means spirit BUT LOOK AT IT ITS RED FOR FUCKS SAKE!)
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:53 No.6428112
    >>6427982
    >suburbia is hell! Bawww!
    SUBURBANITE EMOFAG LIVING WITH HIS PARENTS DETECTD. TERMINATION IMMINENT.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:55 No.6428137
    >Your theology obviously is incapable of contemplating the infinite nature of separation from God in certain sins.

    If you define sin (and the suffering of the sinner) as separation from god, with sufficient sin being absolute and eternal separation from god, then yes, it is a theological fact that the sinner could suffer eternally.

    However that does not mean he would *deserve* to suffer eternally. He hasn't done anything sufficiently bad to warrant eternal misery because there's nothing that a finite creature could possibly do that would be anywhere near that bad.

    >Fucking amateur atheists engaging in theology.

    First of all I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic, possibly a deist. I only reject religious assertions when they make no fucking sense.

    Second, while it seems crass to dismiss theology as the art of bullshit, I have to agree with that position. Theology is effectively the art of taking statements from religious sources that make no sense and trying to reconcile them without saying "oh well, I guess it's just stories then."


    Cont.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:55 No.6428145
    Cont.

    Theology involves answering questions like:

    *Why would an all-powerful and all-loving omniscient god create a world rife with suffering and leave it that way?
    *Why would god have to sacrifice himself to himself to change a rule that he made up himself?
    *How does the suffering of sinners in hell satisfy god, who supposedly loves everyone?
    *Why does an all-powerful being require worship? Is he just really insecure?

    To me these are signs that the religions that believe these things are flawed and don't actually know the nature of God. To the theologian, they are dillemmae to be dodged with ideas like "penal substitution" and "substitutionary atonement" for the scholars, and platitudes like "god moves in mysterious ways" or "thou shalt not put they god to the test" for the masses. In either case these arguments don't make sense, because they are *exactly* the arguments one would make in the event that the emperor really was naked and the dillemmae impossible to escape.

    So where does that leave us?

    Discussing a fictional world where Dante's inferno is literally real, and where the sufferings of the people trapped there are entirely unjust, being far in excess of their crimes. A circumstance which necessarily outrages our modern sense of liberty, equality and fraternity, placing the majority of us firmly on the side of the rebellion emerging from the fortress of light to literally storm the gates of hell.

    Which is awesome.

    Atheistfag is an idiot because he's bitching about the fact that we have Christianity in the setting, when the whole setting serves to point out the shortcomings and inequities of traditional Christianity - as an atheist he should be delighted by the religious theme, but instead he's like "no no let's make it nanotechnology."
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:56 No.6428157
    >>6428137
    >I only reject religious assertions when they make no fucking sense.
    So... always?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:58 No.6428183
    >>6428145
    >dillemmae
    God, you pretentious fucktard. I'm hating you so hard you'll get cancer.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:58 No.6428186
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    >>6428157

    BOOM! BOOM!
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)12:59 No.6428200
    >>6428137
    >However that does not mean he would *deserve* to suffer eternally.
    Really, the very concept of "deserving" suffering makes no sense. It's utterly arbitrary. Punishment is a behavior modification tool, not something to do for its own sake.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:00 No.6428208
    >cancer.

    Using latin?

    You pretentious piece of shit!
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:02 No.6428220
    >>6428208
    >HURF A DURF DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:03 No.6428231
    I say is this thread getting trolled?
    are there trolls in hell?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:03 No.6428232
    >You could be a trader, part of a caravan carrying ashen spices, bubbling brews and delectable meats of dubious provenance from the Third Circle's presses and farms, three-headed guard dogs settling ‘round your camp to keep watch in three shifts for the night. Or maybe you're hauling weapons that forever glow red-hot from the forges of the Fifth Circle bundled alongside precious beetle-like stones and liquid gold from the mines of the Fourth, ready to guard against theft by the infamous bandits and green-eyed monsters of the Invidian Hills.

    I love this imagery. Think we may be onto something here.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:03 No.6428234
    Get the fuck out and stop shitting up the best setting thread in ages, guys.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:03 No.6428235
    This thread is just going to get more and more awful until it autosages, isn't it?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:03 No.6428246
    >>6428145
    I think there is something very real and genuine in theology. Firstly the methodology provides excellent tools for conducting any form of literary criticism, and Theology is the Queen of Universities because it is the original critical discipline. Secondly if you feel obliged to believe in ridiculous things, theology can explain to you the limits of human thinking about the ridiculous, and draw the line as to where you just have to say, "I believe silly things."

    Finally, this setting is Awesome.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:03 No.6428248
    >>6428231

    Maybe this is hell, and we were all sent here for trolling.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:04 No.6428253
    >>6428232
    Hellpunk?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:05 No.6428267
    >>6428246

    Philosophy would like to have a word with your queen of universities.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:07 No.6428280
    >>6428097
    >as an atheist he should be delighted by the religious theme, but instead he's like "no no let's make it nanotechnology."

    I lol'd

    >>6428235
    The first thread was better than this because people were actually turning it into an epic setting.

    >>6428253
    Basically, yes. It's supposed to be a "Wild West in Hell" sort of thing with steampunk mixed in.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:07 No.6428281
    >>6428235
    >>6428234

    Instead of making posts like this, cretins, perhaps you could discuss the setting a bit and bring the thread back on track?

    Posts shouting at trolls = troll posts.

    Do you have anything to add? Maybe character concepts or something? What do you feel about what's been written so far?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:08 No.6428296
         File1256490489.jpg-(236 KB, 690x981, req.jpg)
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    >>6428253
    way ahead of you
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:09 No.6428309
         File1256490556.jpg-(245 KB, 1500x1206, Pennywise.jpg)
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    I request that his figure make his way into your game, OP.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:09 No.6428313
    >>6428267
    Philosophy was first taught in an academy. You'd best investigate the history of the Universities and who came first.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:12 No.6428349
    So which circle does the Seventh house?

    Who's sin is being contested now by armed struggle of the virtuous pagans, the lustful, the gluttons...
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:12 No.6428362
    >>6428281
    >I AM /tg/ POLICE, YOU WILL BEHAVE IN MY THREAD OR I WILL COMPLAIN A SECOND TIME
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:13 No.6428374
    >>6428362
    >NO YOU ASKED ME TO BEHAVE SO I WILL NOT DO IT
    What's it like being 14 bro?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:16 No.6428407
    >>6428349
    Violence, an apropriate battlefield.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:16 No.6428418
    >>6428313

    The University of Bologna would also like to disagree with you.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:18 No.6428437
    >>6428349

    7th is violent. So, the people here might seem at first glance to be potentially good soldiers but a dangerous and destabilising influence who might actually belong in some sort of prison.

    On the other hand it includes vandals, suicides, people who lend money for interest (i.e. juden), people who were unwise with money (i.e. gentiles), blasphemers and sodomites (all porn stars and most homosexuals.)
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:19 No.6428442
    >>6428281
    >>6428374
    >Posts shouting at trolls = troll posts
    What's it like being a hypocrite bro?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:19 No.6428449
    How are the wrathful of the Fifth Circle different from the Violent of the Seventh Circle?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:20 No.6428451
    >>6428442
    What's it like posting "What's it like to X bro" posts bro?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:21 No.6428466
    >>6428374
    you tell me the thread is being derailed by faggots responding to equally fagoty faggots

    hell's circles in order
    Limbo
    Lust
    Gluttony
    avarice& prodigality
    Wrath & sullenness
    HERESY
    Violence, murder, suicide and sodomy(Alexander amirite? awesomeface.jpg)
    Fraud sorcery hypocrisy
    Treachery
    http://danteworlds.laits.utexas.edu/index2.html
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:22 No.6428484
    >>6428449
    You can do things angrily without resorting to violence.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:22 No.6428487
    Also there are centaurs, a Minotaur and harpies there, all intent on maintaining the status quo, so we can get some old school monster killing in while we're there.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:23 No.6428503
    >>6428418
    During the High Middle Ages, theology was therefore the ultimate subject at universities, being named "The Queen of the Sciences" and serving as the capstone to the Trivium and Quadrivium that young men were expected to study. This meant that the other subjects (including Philosophy) existed primarily to help with theological thought.
    ^ Thomas Albert Howard, Protestant Theology and the Making of the Modern German University (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2006), p.56: '[P]hilosophy, the scientia scientarum in one sense, was, in another, portrayed as the humble "handmaid of theology".'
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:24 No.6428507
    Landmark: Cauldron

    Cauldron is an anomalous feature located on the Seventh Circle. It's purpose is not known to humans as none have ever been taken to Cauldron or brought out of it. As one approaches Cauldron, the ground beneath gradually turns to deep, black obsidian. Sharp and jagged edges cover the surface necessitating durable footwear. The atmosphere changes as well; the sky burns the deep intense orange of a dying sun and the air becomes surrealistically clear. Eventually, one ends up at the edge of a massive spiraling obsidian crater filled with an ocean of sickly green acid. A massive roiling column of acid extends into the sky in the middle of the crater, occasionally wavering. As one looks down, they notice thousands of screaming humanoid faces seemingly erupting out of the obsidian ground. Humans from the mortal realm travel here to harvest the obsidian for its magical properties. The obsidian closest to the crater fetch the highest prices, but there have been reports of brief acid rains dissolving away unfortunate travelers.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:24 No.6428518
    >>6428437
    A lot of people have been waiting in the circles above, for a chance to "get Hitler".
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:25 No.6428530
    >>6428507
    I like this.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:25 No.6428532
    >>6428503
    >During the High Middle Ages
    Excellent, safe to disregard completely then.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:28 No.6428583
    >>6428449
    The first five circles are for 'internal' sins, or personal vices. The latter four circles are for 'external' sins, or sins committed against other people.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:29 No.6428593
    >>6428518

    Where is Hitler? Could he be considered a traitor for staging a coup?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:30 No.6428604
    >>6428593
    dead dead and gone
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:30 No.6428609
         File1256491851.jpg-(32 KB, 454x365, Gustave_Dore_Inferno32.jpg)
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    >>6428518
    Hitler was transformed into a demon upon entry to Hell. Since the rebellion, Hitler mysteriously vanished near Sinew Pass.

    The Ninth Circle has rarely been seen by humans not already being punished there. According to Dante's account, the Ninth Circle is repressively dark and cold. It resembles a massive cavern half filled with the black ice. The humans here are submerged in the ice for their treachery against their leaders. Satan himself resides on this Circle.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:31 No.6428624
    Is the city of Dis a landmark, or does it literally contain the latter four circles?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:32 No.6428630
    How does death work in this setting, given that everyone's already dead and immortal?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:33 No.6428645
    In the Persecution and Trial of the Minotaur of Hell convened under the council of liberation organisations of infernal regions interrogatory questioning indicated that Hitler had never been assigned to a circle.

    Speculation on this information is rife.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:34 No.6428660
    >>6428630

    See:

    >>6418383
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:34 No.6428663
    >>6428630
    dead not immortal, you dissipate nobody can guess what happens next
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:36 No.6428689
    >>6428624
    I thought Dis was its own city located on the Sixth Circle. In my setting, Dis is the only permanent human settlement on the Sixth Circle. It is used as a military base for the various human forces running their wars on the Seventh Circle. The furnaces that were originally used to burn heretics have been converted to manufacture all manner of weaponry for the human military forces.

    >>6428630
    Death is permanent. There is only Oblivion after your second death. Humans in Hell are much more resilient than they were in life, but they can still die. Demons on the other hand merely reincarnated after a few years. You can set it up anyway you want though.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:40 No.6428735
    >>6428630
    I like the idea of someone going into a period of outer-body torment in the void for an extended perion of time, before being reborn in some kind of massive, fleshy birthing pool. Like, literally being shat out of a huge sphincter into a pool of sludge and filth.

    And people man these places and fish the reborn sinners out once they're reformed, and sell thme back to their families and friends.

    If nobody comes to take them after some time then they're sold as slaves.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:42 No.6428756
    The suicides have it pretty bad. Since they have given up their bodies, they appear in Hell as thorny bushes and trees. Their own corpses hang from the limbs of their branches. Transplantation of these poor souls have been moderately successful. Certain specimens were taken to the First Circle and used to line the avenues and paths of cities so that they might enjoy a more interactive life despite their existence as vegetation.

    Other specimens have apparently picked up the ability to manipulate their corpses in a limited manner. If the corpse is destroyed, a new one appears a week later. However, if the vulnerable bush or tree is destroyed, the soul is lost forever.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:42 No.6428761
    >Death is permanent.

    This doesn't make much sense, since being in hell IS the second death, and it would mean that there was no such thing as an immortal soul, and that existence in hell wasn't permanent. Also everyone is scheduled to be reborn bodily at the time of the second coming, apart from the suicides, so they still need to be around for that.

    I think one of the main challenges to existence in an actual afterlife is how do we all live together, when we're stuck with each other?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:44 No.6428791
    >>6428735

    That's okay, but it sounds a bit close to Wraith.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:44 No.6428798
    >>6428791
    Never heard of that, I'll look it up.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:44 No.6428802
    >>6428761
    Hell is other people.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:45 No.6428810
    >>6428735
    >I like the idea of someone going into a period of outer-body torment in the void for an extended perion of time, before being reborn in some kind of massive, fleshy birthing pool. Like, literally being shat out of a huge sphincter into a pool of sludge and filth.
    >>6428791
    >That's okay, but it sounds a bit close to Wraith.

    Interestingly, that is EXACTLY how the first campaign of Rein(splat)Hagen's Wraith prototype game started.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:47 No.6428832
    I think the most canonical answer is "everything grows back... eventually."

    So if you get killed hard enough you might be down for 500 years, effectively removing you from the campaign. If you just get your throat slit you might be up and about in a week.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:48 No.6428850
         File1256492933.jpg-(11 KB, 90x114, 790197229_s.jpg)
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    this is how man fought Hell and won.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:49 No.6428857
    >>6428832
    Wounds would have to be regenerating in Hell, otherwise damned wouldn't have been able to undergo much torture.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:51 No.6428879
    >>6428857

    Yes, humans in hell regenerate their wounds. This is for the specific purpose of continual torture, but since the rebellion this has become a blessing in the war against demons.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:52 No.6428901
    Question.

    How many people are in Hell?

    And how many of them are from the modern, post-Enlightment era world? I mean, if you count all the humans that have ever lived, that's a lot of people.. But I also recall someone saying that modern time populations are comparable to how many people have ever lived... You have to also take into account child-mortality, I guess.

    Hell would also be so fucking *diverse*. You'd need to be superhuman with twenty different World History degrees to even start to be able to surface of all the possibilities... There would be cavemen, wouldn't there? Or does Hell set up shop somewhere around Abraham? No, it doesn't seem like this is a World > Belief > The Divine type of setting, does it? This is full-fledged "Hell is real and you fuckers are going there" setting.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:54 No.6428928
    >>6428832
    So its obviously more interesting and worthwhile to kill someone "hard." So do not go easy into that good night, but rage, rage to force them into dying set alight.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:56 No.6428935
    >>6428901

    Nearly everyone is in Hell, that does include cavemen since they were never baptized. They don't have it so bad though since the First Circle is relatively serene.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:56 No.6428941
    >>6428901
    I recall something like that as well: the current population of Earth is about the same as the number of people who have ever lived before. Which caps the populus of Hell in this scenario to ~13 billion.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:56 No.6428947
    >>6428901
    >>6428901

    The problem here is that the only "free" people in Hell would have been virtuous pagans, which rules out every atheist ever, since they could have chosed to accept God, which means thay'd have just been banished to one of the lower circles. Same with every non-Christian for the past few hundred years.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:57 No.6428955
    >>6428928

    Wow. This actually has some really interesting roleplay possibilities. If you want make sure some human never returns for years, your players need to devise the most horrific murder ever.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:58 No.6428966
    >>6428947
    *chosen.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)13:58 No.6428978
    >>6428955
    Modern man has no need of God.

    We have devised our own hells.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)14:05 No.6429063
    >>6428955

    Justice in Hell is extremely perverse. Since most of the inhabitants of Hell would rather not run and maintain a prison, lawbreakers are instead sent to the Oblivion. Sentences are carried out with machines designed to inflict a precise degree of bodily harm. The amount of bodily harm determines the length of time in Oblivion. A one-week sentence for petty theft might be a machine that impales the heart. A six-month sentence for murder might be a machine that simultaneously severs all the limbs of the lawbreaker. A hundred-year sentence might be a machine that chews the body apart, incinerates the resulting mush, and spreads the ashes onto the winds of Hell. Machines capable of carrying out even longer sentences are being devised.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)14:10 No.6429128
    DEMON HITLER

    DEMON HITLER

    DEMON HITLER
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)14:13 No.6429170
         File1256494380.jpg-(118 KB, 643x538, wow.jpg)
    118 KB
    >We have devised our own hells.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)14:15 No.6429215
    >>6429170
    Dear god, you can change a pre-existing character's gender now? A billion shitty fanfics were born at this point.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)14:17 No.6429233
    >>6429063

    The problem with using this as a form of justice is the same as the old 'cryo-prison' trope - the prisoner emerges 100 years later as psychotic as he ever was, alienated from society but having had very little time to reflect or learn new habits.

    I think we're going to need actual prisons once the invasion of the 7th circle really gets underway, possibly "free prison" colonies of some sort where the main restriction is not being able to leave and bother people outside.

    I had a DM who always trotted out a free prison when he wanted to add a bit of Mad Max to our Shadowrun games.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)14:42 No.6429558
    Bumping for more awesome.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)14:48 No.6429619
    >>6429558
    This concept is tapped. There is no more awesome. I heard there was some out in Californiay, but I don't no nuthn' bout that.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)14:53 No.6429670
    >>6429619
    There has to be more to discuss.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:04 No.6429809
    >>6429670
    Well, so far it sounds like a classless game, which would be fitting for hell itself, but not for a hell based on Dante's Inferno, where even Chaos has structure.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:06 No.6429856
    >>6429809
    OP's planning on using Mutants and Masterminds, if that's what you're talking about.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:06 No.6429857
    >>6429809

    Some sort of class/race combination based on your sins and the role you've taken in the revolution would make sense.

    Just have to avoid being too cheesy, the wrathful probably shouldn't get huge demonic spikes and fangs for instance.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:09 No.6429889
    >>6429856
    Why would anyone in their right mind use Mutants and Masterminds for anything?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:13 No.6429941
    >>6429889
    Personal preferences, don't knock on them.

    >>6429857
    Well, good thing for wrath is smoldering smoke perpetually emanating from them and blood shot eyes are all good. Overt mutations should be reserved with more powerful beings. A man with hoofed feet and wicked barbed rams horns should be a monster to be respected.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:23 No.6430055
    >>6429941
    Should humans become more demonic in appearance? Doesn't that blur the 'us vs. them' dynamic?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:29 No.6430144
    >>6430055
    Yep. That's kind of the thing I was getting at. Have you read Devils and Demons? It's a selection of short stories by Marvin Kaye and in one of the stories, Satan recruits a young boy by corrupting his soul to the point of pure blackness. It's a good read and humans can be just as horrid as demons. At least demons stick to their bargains, even if they do look for loop holes.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:36 No.6430225
    >>6429856
    >>6429889
    No, seriously, that system is MAJORLY broken.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:37 No.6430230
    >>6430225
    >my players are immature fags who can't resist exploiting obvious loopholes... and so am I! Mmmm, cock!
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:51 No.6430386
    >>6430225
    Not at PL6 it isn't.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)15:55 No.6430431
    >>6430386
    You don't know what the hell you are talking about do you?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)16:11 No.6430642
    >>6430431
    Yes, I do.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)16:11 No.6430644
    >>6430386
    You have never played that shitastic system have you? As much as it tries to limit you with caps they do nothing overall for the game. At the limits fighting at other PL equivalent things you are playing a fucking boring 50/50 battle, if your DM sends anything higher they can fucking smear a party, lower and it's a boring pounding on shit that has no chance. All the powers are so bland that limiting them is the only way to make things interesting and then you have shit like teamworked minions to have a PL1 character slaughter a PL10 character without any loopholes.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)16:14 No.6430683
    >>6430644
    Whine some more, faggot.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)16:16 No.6430700
    >>6430644
    The games I've played with the system have been excellently balanced, but that's mostly on the part of the GM's excellent handling of events. Every system has balanced issues.

    I don't find the powers bland at all. They're very customizable.

    And the minion power is, I'm thinking, not meant for player characters in the first place.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)16:24 No.6430801
    >>6430644
    >STOP HAVING FUN, GUYS!
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)16:25 No.6430808
    >>6430801
    But... but I don't WANT to.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)16:40 No.6430969
         File1256503253.jpg-(10 KB, 355x266, Colonel O'neill man what.jpg)
    10 KB
    >>6429170
    Is that a Stargate in that pic?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)17:08 No.6431296
    >>6430969

    STFU U HATER WOW CAME OUT BEFORE STARGATE HOW DARE YOU IMPLY THEY STOLE IT BBLAAARGH
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)17:11 No.6431326
         File1256505068.jpg-(39 KB, 464x355, Gen jack O'neill man what.jpg)
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    >>6431296
    How do I convince I preseident that we should roll a nuke through their gate...
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)17:11 No.6431335
    >>6430230
    Not that guy, but I have to say it bothers me tremendously as a DM if the system I'm using is broken, even if my players aren't looking to exploit it (which to their credit I must say they usually aren't). It's just the principle of the thing.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)18:40 No.6432380
    >>6431335
    But... Mutants and Masterminds ISN'T broken.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)19:06 No.6432718
    >>6432380
    I'm not strictly saying that it is. I've never used it. Being such a light system I suspect it is quite open for interpretation (=being exploitable), but I don't really know. As a mater of fact whether something is broken or not is really a question of perception.

    My point was that wanting a system to be "air tight" is not just a sign of having loopholing fagots as players. I want my system to be complete and reliable, because even though I know my players won't try to blatantly take advantage of it, I also don't want to put them in the awkward position of seeing a giant loophole in the system but still try not to go near it, or even acknowledge it's there.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)19:30 No.6432986
    >>6432718
    Oh, I understand. Gotcha.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)19:45 No.6433153
    >>6432380
    No, it really is. The power difference between someone with 4-5 individual powers including utility ones and someone with 2 arrays each with one full combat power on is unimaginable, not to mention some powers are simply vastly more effective than others. Spiderman with 'Climb' 'Jump' 'Enhanced senses' 'Strike' and 'Snare' will die like a dog to Dr Strange with an 'Offensive Magic' and a 'Defensive Magic' array, who's rolling around with a turnabout teleport on one array and blast corrosion on the other by default and still has another five powers.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)19:46 No.6433163
    >>6433153
    It's the GM's job to limit such abuse. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it will be allowed. Are you saying that game-makers should limit options as a means of limiting abuse?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)20:27 No.6433653
    >>6433163
    ...it's not a case of limiting options, it's a case of making all options equally viable. It's hardly limiting to make the same amount of points in Strike as combat effective as the same amount of points in Corrosion, when currently the Corrosion character will rape the striker and their entire family and eat the abortions. Yet you don't need to be an 'abusive' gamer to pick Corrosion and massively overshadow your party's Strike characters, you just need to pick it at random or because your character happens to suit it.

    It also needs to make sure character creation is properly explained, as the container/array system is /absolutely critical/ to making characters and if you don't realise that (because, say, it only has fairly small mentions in the core book under alternate powers as opposed to entire chapters in the splats) then your character will be utter shit and you won't know why- not using arrays is definitely not a viable alternative to using arrays and that needs to be made absolutely clear.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:17 No.6434139
    >>6433653
    If not MnM, what?
    >> Fred Phelps 10/25/09(Sun)21:39 No.6434394
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    My friends!
    Why do you despair? Now that we have all regained our memories, do you not see the true reason we have been sent to Hell? It is not for us to be tortured, if that were true then we would of been sent to the time before the rebellion. Besides, why would the Lord God torture his most devout and holy followers? Rather, we have been sent to be the torturers in Hell ourselves!
    It is clear the the Lord God has decided that the task of punishing sinners was to holy to be left to filthy demons and instead has sent his HOLIEST FOLLOWERS to accomplish this.

    And I don't think we, as His Saints, should disappoint Him....
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:40 No.6434407
    >>6434139
    4E. It makes sense if you think about it.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:43 No.6434448
    >>6428200
    Yes that is what Utilitarianism says but that isn't what everyone in the world has thought.
    If that were so, then why have there been exceptionally gruesome execution methods?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:15 No.6434749
    >>6434394
    Fundamentalists that think they are so holy that end up becoming demons in mind..
    That's an interesting twist.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:17 No.6434766
    >>6434749
    No, fundamentalists. You are the demons.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:32 No.6434905
    >>6434749
    >>6434394
    OP here. I've already considered something like this. Religious men so fanatical in their beliefs that they see the Rebellion to be, itself, a sinful act due to its subverting of what they perceive as being God's plan.

    "We were put here by God to suffer," they think, "and so, by God, the suffering must continue."
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:07 No.6436031
    >>6434448

    Also, since everyone but the suicides gets revived in human form at the second coming (and even the suicides get to be trees) they may be able to make a coherent argument for sucking it up and hoping to be forgiven later.

    So it's possible for the PCs to have doubts about the rebellion, although we're presenting it in a positive light overall.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:08 No.6436045
    >>6436031
    Right, right. Exactly.
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    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:18 No.6436174
    >>6429233

    But Oblivion is worse than Hell. In Hell, you at least have other people to interact with. In Oblivion, you are completely aware of your situation but have no input/output. You're like a brain in a jar. No one wants to go through that. It's not as if you're freezing a prisoner.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:55 No.6436539
    >>6429233
    >>6429063

    You could also borrow a page from the Soviets, and have the front siege lines be manned by convict battalions.

    Most of the pre-WW1 generals would feel right at home commanding an army of criminals and psychopaths.

    "The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards."

    Arthur Wellesly, 1st Duke of Wellington speaking about conscripts in the British Army, 4 November 1831
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:02 No.6436638
    Why the fuck is rommel getting punished?

    He was sent, with all the other military age minorities/dissidents/whathaveyou, to DIE. He was a nice dude and arranged for the SS officers to have accidents before they got execution happy/the next wave of desertions(which he orchaestrated) occurred.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:25 No.6437363
    >>6436638
    Receptive sodomy.

    Did you hear that those contained in Limbo are contemplating closing their gates against the moderns?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:26 No.6437371
    Where do the Unrighteous Jews... the Jews prior to Christ that were left behind at the Harrowing sit?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)04:42 No.6438742
    >>6434448

    To reinforce the point to OTHER PEOPLE who watch or hear about the execution that that the sort of crime the executed party committed won't be tolerated.



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