Perhaps you are a soldier under one of the great warrior-kings, incarcerated in Hell and then freed - a warrior of Boudicca's Woad Legion, tirelessly and rowdily keeping the peace around the border to Purgatory. Or a rider in the Seventh Horde of the Great Khan, subordinate to one of his thousand nephews as they sweep across the Dodo Plains, dust ground from the bones of a million extinct species blowing about clawed hooves. Or maybe even a footsoldier in Alexander's Last Push, besieging the twisted and blackly metaphorical walls of Pandemonium itself with siege engines of soul-hardened wood and polished brass.

Perhaps you are a trader, part of a caravan carrying ashen spices, bubbling brews, and delectable meats of dubious provenance from the Third Circle's presses and farms, three-headed guard dogs settling round your camp to keep watch in three shifts for the night. Or maybe you're hauling weapons that forever glow red-hot from the forges of the Fifth Circle, bundled alongside beetle-like precious stones and liquid gold from the mines of the Fourth, ready to guard against theft by the infamous bandits and green-eyed monsters of the Invidian Hills. Perhaps you take your wares by barge or salvaged galleon, travelling up and down the treachorous and shifting River Styx, your journey's main waypoint the port city of Iracedia, its harbour set on the shores of the Lake Stygia, the living battleship Leviathan guarding its safety.

Perhaps you are a more traditional adventurer, a modern sceptic travelling this weird and hellish afterlife alongside a Viking berserker, a heretical warrior-monk of the dark ages, an Elizabethan victim of the Inquisition, and a millenia-dead Greek witch. Together you search for the Respendlently Golden City of Mammon, mythical even in Hell. Or perhaps for demonic lore sealed in clay tablets of Babylon and yellowed pages of Edwardian tomes, lost even to the prying eyes of the fallen angels. Or maybe you seek battle with some creature of the deep, some Gorgebeast or Stained Glass Mantis, or one of the unslain demons that still roam the upper circles - The Gristle Pilgrim or Good Lady Cratchet or J'ul-shannazar.

Maybe you've even been unlucky enough to get yourself involved in the politics of the First City of Limbo, running interference between the various cults, guilds, block-wide fiefdoms and rival businesses - negotiating a truce between the Aristotleans and Socratites in Club Bub, investigating the murder of a wealthy Hellion and the blood-straw-and-porcelain thing that has legitimately taken her place, or preventing an assassination attempt by a deranged devotee of Ovid on a poem reading of Homer's latest work.

Whatever you do, whoever you are - whatever you've done, whoever you were - this is New Hell. A Wild West more inherently cruel and marvellously twisted than any that might have been found in life.

Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.

This MIGHT be a cool setting if a real writer were in charge, but knowing some 4chan kid cooked it up makes me not even want to think about it.

Nicely done op.

>safety is no guarantee

That aside, sounds kinda cool.

>>6389960
trollin' trollin' trollin'

Fucking cool.

>>6390090
Why thank you. I thought it up when my regular DM mentioned, off-hand, that he was working on a D&D setting in Hell, with guns and such.

I was profoundly disappointed to discover that this actually consisted of us all playing demons with assault rifles for no obvious reason, and so I've started cooking up this for when its my turn as DM.

Any ideas for plot hooks, characters, items, places, etc?

Half an internets to you OP.
Half now, and half after you finish this thing.
I could draw for you.
Here's a WIP sketch.

so. cool.

>>6389960
You really ought to go back to /v/ then.

Or perhaps you could explain the fundamental difference between a '4chan kid' writing this idea, and some guy making $80k while working at Wizkids writing this idea?

Who's to say the poster doesn't work for a major developer anyways? He's anonymous.

You're a fool and an idiot to dismiss an idea because it doesn't come from some self-inflated higher authority.

Make sure this is archived, old bean!

>>6389960
fuck off you shit eating fuck

>>6390225
>Who's to say the poster doesn't work for a major developer anyways?
>on 4chan
0/10

Thread fucking saved. Gonna rar it and keep it somewhere later.

I've also kept a text copy of the premise, but I shall be heading out upon the town soon, and would be devastated if it should disappear after all the ideas have been dumped herein!

I think this needs a unique system. You can work either ST or D20 for it, but I think the premise is awesome enough to deserve its own rules. Or at least unique classes if you stick to D20.

>>6390160
>>6390280
Stop. Don't let this turn into another /tg/ pile-on, with people adding unnecesary and often silly ideas. You don't need much more than what you already have, OP. Maybe some fleshing out of factions, but keep it loose and malleable.

This is a great idea but elaborating on it too much would ruin it.

>>6390327
One question needs to be analyzed, however - how do you handle death? Can anyone actually die? What are the consequences?

>>6390327
Who's to that say everyone on 4chan are not accomplished roleplaying game designers?

wait so how does magic work

>>6390327
There's no harm in having elegan/tg/ents propose ideas - if they all turn out to be rubbish, then OP can certainly ignore them with no trouble. If, however, some clever neckbeard should stumble upon a good idea, what harm is there?

My word, some people can be so very touchy.

>>6390309
sounds like a good way to ruin it

>>6390352
And you're just pretentious.

For places, consult Dante's Inferno.
For items, the sky's the limit!
For plot hooks, seeking individual souls amongst Hell's teeming, uncountable masses could be interesting, as could seeking a channel to Reality, or even a conduit to Heaven itself. The rebellion in Hell is going so well, after all - why not aim for the very top?

What does Heaven think about this development? I find it odd that there would be no intervention by the Host, considering that mortals in charge of Hell seems far removed from what God had in mind. Maybe the Mortal Order has to constantly fend off the machinations or possibly even outright invasions by seraphim armies?

Maybe Purgatory becomes a kind of no man's land in the battle between the new occupants of Hell and Heaven?

>>6390372
Pretentious? Good sir, I am SHOCKED at your allegations! What could possibly cause you to hurl such scathing insults at a gentleman in good standing? I've certainly not wronged you in any way. Wherefore, then, are you so vitriolic?

Sounds alot like a close relative to my "Oblivion" (no relation to the CRPG) where one third of heaven hell and earth merge but then I guess you can call Engel and Tribe8 close to it too. I just added a bit more diesel punk (necro punk, tesla punk, genetics punk) to the theocalyps.

London is protected from the hybrid WWII nazi plane-demons and their hellfire bombs by the shakey alliance of the Arch Angel Michael and his legion and the Iron Queen (Think Metropolis Robot) and her hive of loyal sentient robots and their anti aircraft guns. The City of Chared is not so lucky. A Burnt husk, most live below the ever chared and constantly sizzling ground, forever imbued with hellfire, ground in a rather large society of outcasts. Most working to supply London with minerals or other services and ships it off by an underground railroad. Halfbreeds (Demonseeded and Neplims), 'Bots cut out from the resonance (the Hive connection), 'Mancers (necro, chrono and so on) even Undead (Living corpses, stuck in a un-dead limbo by the teocalypse) and others make up its population (and the pool which the players draw inspiration for their characters).

Novus Abyssus - The New Hell.

Going through and editing now, OP. Okay if I use this?

>>6390382
Infiltrations of the First City of Limbo by Angelic entities are not unknown, and the occasional scouting party into the grey mists and rusted elevators of Purgatory have noted the distant, golden light of a Seraphim circling above. Caesar claims to have done battle with one and parted on respectful terms, though this seems unlikely in the extreme.

But the Seraphim seem cautious and the infiltrators appear aimless, poking around, almost... lost. One oddly genial angel, found wandering the wastes of the Seventh Circle by Heidrich Wallace and his travelling Musikalisks, was more talkative by far than any of his divine kin. Through polite and careful questioning, he revealed that on the matter of the Mortal Inferno, God is speechless.

Indeed, thus far the observed attitudes of the host toward The Men Below consist almost entirely of simply disdain, with an undertone of fear. It's almost as though they fear the same happening Above.

But who would rebel against Paradise? In fact, who is IN Paradise? The last heaven-bound souls seen by those Below were reported almost two thousand years ago, when Christ made his grand tour of the Lowest Realm.

Surely it can't be that the streets of the Holiest Land are empty? Surely it can't be that God Himself has fallen silent? Could it be possible that Heaven is running on a skeleton crew?

>>6390542
Go right on ahead - I'd be flattered.

>>6390544
PIERCE THE HEAVENS
LOOT THE VAULTS OF PARADISE
SIT ON THE THRONE OF GOD

This is so fucking awesome.

Currently e-mailing this to my friend, this has so much potential for awesome..

OP is a hero among men, and his brilliance will be fondly remembered by my players.

>>6390542
A friend I emailed this idea to got back to me with this:
http://www.arcaneminiatures.co.uk/hell-dorado.asp

Fuck. This is almost EXACTLY what I had in mind. Gonna need to get me some of those.

One question OP, what time period is this set in regarding the contemporary mortal world?

>>6390544
I just shat bricks, mortar and a fucking construction crew.

i lold

>>6390714

About now, I would expect, given that Christ's Harrowing of Hell occurred two-thousand years ago. See
>were reported almost two thousand years ago, when Christ made his grand tour of the Lowest Realm.

>>6390714
>The last heaven-bound souls seen by those Below were reported almost two thousand years ago, when Christ made his grand tour of the Lowest Realm.

Now.

>>6390714
Due to the nature of Hell, there's no reason for it to not take place in the modern era of Mankind - though of course I imagine that the players would be encouraged to play a character from any time-period and background?

How does it deal with weapons? Do they have gunsmiths?

I would play as Mother Theresa so as to troll any irl Catholics present.

I wonder what newspaper journalism's like in Hell...

I assume then that this in this setting people went to heaven before Jesus; no orginal sin?

OP is fucking good. The writing grabbed me IMMEDIATELY.

>>6390758

Unless every gunsmith in history went to heaven, the answer is obviously yes.

>>6390714
>>6390732
>>6390733
>>6390746
No. Stop.
Don't constrain Hell by putting it in a time period. Make it timeless, with new arrivals coming from different time periods that are both past and future.

>>6390779
This is the only correct answer.

Dante would frown upon you

>>6390770

No. There was a Harrowing of Hell; Jesus wouldn't have gone to hell personally to rescue those people whose only sin was dieing before he was born if there was no original sin. Besides, original sin is one of the most important themes of Christian theology.

>>6390779
I kind of like this idea better, but it does have peculiarities. If Hell is indeed timeless and people are streaming in from the past and future, you'd have to establish a date for the extinction of humanity. If humanity never dies out, then Hell is infinitely full of people from the far future.

>>6390732
>>6390733
>>6390746
Ah right, I missed that part regarding Christ's visit to Hell. It'd be interesting to compare the different attitudes of those who've been in Hell for multiple millenniums by now and those who just bought it five minutes ago.

Question: Purgatory?

I thought people who weren't complete dicks but still BELIEVED IN JESUS LOL went through a wall of fire then rocked up to Heaven?

>>6390779
No, I think it's a better idea to constrain it to the modern time period. If you make Hell timeless, you're going to run into weird problems explaining how people appear in hell, why hell isn't infinitely full, or why hell isn't expanding, etc...

>>6390732
>>6390733

Correct. However, considering the time-lag of souls getting to Hell (not something the Hellions themselves are actually going to be aware of, mind) and the general inapplicability of modern science (fire burns and rocks fall, except where they don't), the modern-day souls that do inhabit New Hell don't tend to have that much influence, with a few notable exceptions.

Modern day culture, too, has yet to permeate into the Mortal Inferno - while an unholy mishmash of styles Medieval and Oriental, Victorian and Elizabethan, Gothic and Romanesque form the bulk of that seen in the First City.

The only relatively modern item of clothing, for instance, that might be seen in a Limboan Corterie is the humble tuxedo, which has proved surprisingly popular amongst certain members of the former Ming Dynasty, as well as with the Sour Danes, once accessorized with some tasteful Grim pelts.

>>6390795
No. You don't. It's the "paradox of the eternal" that is referred to but never outright described in daemonic lore.

>>6390826
Only if they want to.

OP, I think that you deserve to know that this isn't a campaign setting. This is a novel, or a series of novels, with an excellent premise and an infinite scope.

You should run with this and take is as far as you can.

I do think setting it in the modern era is the way to go. This is something that was never expected to happen in all of Creation. It should have a sense of immediacy and uncertainty in that no one, mortal, demon or angel, knows what the fuck is going to happen tomorrow.

>>6390830
Not really. Hell might work on a different timeline than the real world. You can have people from 1000 years in the future hanging out in hell and all of a sudden some caveman pops up, and the caveman's son has been in hell since before Jesus. There's no reason it would have to be constrained to real-world time. You'd run into logistical problems if people were able to travel to or influence the real world and you'd need to define an upper limit for far-future technology but otherwise it would only add to the otherworldiness of the setting.

>>6390918
Isn't it sometimes said that there's no waiting in Heaven, that everyone arrives at the same time? Would not the same be true for Hell?

>>6390858
Go for broke and do it all. Novels and an RPG, in either order.

Also: Archive this shit.

>>6390847
One thing I do think modern-day souls would be valued for is their knowledge, not of science but of art, history and especially stories. The modern day literary historian has centuries of experience over his peers from say the Renaissance. Imagine a public oration of Joyce's Ulysses in a Greek auditorium with Homer going WAT over in the corner.

Modern day individuals are Hell's bards.

What I love about this setting is that it's exactly what would happen if you had an infinite influx of mortals into a place with a finite number of demons trying to keep them down. Bastards should have seen this coming, and of course they didn't.

So, demons. Where do they come from, how do you 'kill' them? Obviously it's possible for them to get their asses kicked by mortal means...

>>6390959
yeah dude modern day is the best fuck those old people

>>6390982
Yes but those "old people" lived in a time where war and combat wasn't decided by who was the fastest and/or the best shot. These motherfuckers are close combat monsters compared to most modern people.

I want to insist that the Dukes of Hell are deposed to the final two circles and plot even now to retake the rule of Hell back for themselves.

>>6390959
I'd love to see how someone smuggles a coppy of Ulysses into hell...

I spammed a rough A-Z list of demon names and one sentencing descriptions this one time. Shall I do so again?

>>6391046
Please do.

An aspect I'm toying with is that, in the passage to Hell, most people lose much of their memory - some consider this a final cruel touch by Lucifer, punishing mortals for sins unremembered, while others believe it to be an act of God, part of the necessary cleansing that must take place before forgiveness. Still others believe that chunks of their memories were stolen by things from beyond Hell or Hell, creatures with neither form nor function, throbbing eyes and anglerfish teeth in a sea of impossible angles, while more claim it is an (un)natural phenomenon, as though their ability to recollect was torn off on some jutting rockspire on the Long Way Down.

An interesting correllation noted by practicing Psyentysts is that often, it is those souls noted by new arrivals to be famous, or well-remembered, who themselves possess the most memories, some even going so far as to claim that they've had the faded sections of their past restored by a renaissance in the Living Land. Saladin, for example, has stated that he remembers all of his life that he might have when living - something unlikely in the extreme for Joe Bloggs, who'd be lucky to remember more than his name, though his tastes and instincts would remain the same.

Hrafnkell, a scholar of some renown in the Frozen Township, has put forward comparisons to the medieval practice of remembering the dead, having monks pray for their souls. Might this have been some crude recognition of the effect fame (or infamy) has on a Hellion?

Most don't really care - they'd rather get on with their lives (if that's the proper term). Some rare few actively try to awaken their memories, while others recognise that they might be in Hell for reasons darker than being a virtuous pagan, and would rather the cobwebs in their brain stay tightly-woven.

>>6390918

Even if you were to set it up this way, you'd have to sort of establish when humanity has gone extinct. If people are randomly entering hell from many different time periods, there are still going to be more people coming from the future then there are in the past (assuming humanity doesn't go extinct soon). It's either that or that hell has some sort of arbitrary prejudice against people from the future which prevents them from entering as often.

>>6391044
I'd imagine that most literary works have to be transcribed from memory, which of course allows for room for all kinds crazy reinterpretations and melding with various folklore over the century.

>>6391019
The middle reaches of hell are thus constantly being sacked by the demons and imps under control of the dukes. Whenever they leave a region, however, the besieged towns and such quickly repopulate. So, assuming the 6th and 7th circles are these middle reaches, no duke or group of mortal souls can actually claim the circles as their own, unlike the upper and lower ones. They are lands of constant change. New towns spring up all over, are quickly destroyed, and are rebuilt in new locations.

>>6391080
Indeed. Which is why you make humanity go extinct sometime in the near future. Problem solved!

>>6391058
righto, one sec

>>6391128
Abaddon : Hebrew root meaning "to destroy", same as Apollyon
Apollyon (Abaddon) : The King of Demons Rev 9:11
Abigor : Christian demonology - commands 60 legions
Adramelech: Arch Demon whose name means, "King of Fire"
Agares : First Duke of the East, commands 31 legions; appears willingly
Alocer : Strong Duke commands 36 legions; lion's face, dressed as a knight on a horse
Amduscius : Great Duke, governs 29 legions; looks like a unicorn
Andras : Marquesse, commands 30 legions; bird head with angel-like wings
Asmoday : Prince of demons; thought to be the serpent that deceived Eve
Asmodeus : Demon of wrath, banished by Raphael in the Book of Tobit 8:3
Astaroth : Strong Duke over 40 legions and the treasurer of hell
Aym : Great Duke, who commands 26 legions; from christian demonology
Ayperos : Prince, commands 36 legions; from christian demonology
Azazel : Chief of the goat-demons or "hairy demons"
Bael : Head of the Infernal Armies of 66 legions
Balam : Terrible king with three heads and commands 40 legions
Beelzebub : Prince of Demons, aka Lord of the Flies, former highest ranking angel in heaven
Belial : Chief of all devils, brings about wickedness and guilt
Belphegor : Demon or "god" of the Moabites, Numbers 25
Berith : Great Duke of hell who governs 26 legions, appears as a red soldier on a red horse
Bifrons : declares the understanding of geometry, astrology and other arts
Botis : Appears as a viper, and proclaims the past and future
Buer : President of hell, of the second order, and commands 50 legions
Caym : Great President who takes the shape of a thrush; rules 30 legions
Charon : The boat man who brings souls across the river Styx
Cresil : Demon of impurity and laziness
Crocell : Grand Duke who appears as an angel, and governs 48 legions
Deumos : Female demon with 4 horns and a crown
Eurynome : Superior demon who feeds on corpses; the Prince of Death

>>6391070
I don't know about basing it on fame but otherwise that sounds cool.

>>6391070
>Psyentysts

>>6391149
Focalor : Grand Duke who drowns men and overthrows ships of war
Furfur : Count of hell, commands 26 legions; appears as angel with a flaming tail
Gaap : Prince of hell, intensifies love and hatred; transporter demon
Geryon : Giant centaur, guardian of hell
Haures : Strong Duke of hell, commands 20 legions and is very frightful with eye aflame
Ipos : Demon count of hell who commands 36 legions; looks like a lion-headed angel
Jezebeth : Demon of falsehoods and lies
Kasdeya : From the "Book of Enoch", the 5th Satan
Kobal : Demon of hilarity
Leonard : Master of black magic and sorcery
Leviathan : Dragon of the Sea, the Crooked Serpent of the abyss
Lilith : Demon of waste.
Lucifer : Light bearer, son of the morning; former seraphim cast out of heaven
Malphas : Grand president of hell, commands 40 legions; appears as a raven
Mammon : Demon of avarice
Mastema : Leader of fallen angels whose job is to tempt men to sin and accuse them before God
Melchom : Demon who carries the money purse; payer of servants
Mephistopheles : Another name for the devil in the Middle Ages
Merihim : Dark Prince of pestilence
Moloch : Demon worshipped by the Israelites through child sacrifice
Mullin : Demon lieutenant of the demon Leonard
Murmur : Great Duke, comes with trumpets sounding and rules 30 legions
Naberius : Strong demon in charge of 29 legions, a Marquis of hell
Nergal : Second order demon, commands the secret police
Nicor : Water demon known for drowning humans; can cause hurricanes, tempests and the like
Nybbas : Manager of visions and dreams, inferior order charlatan
Nysrogh : Second order demon, chief of the house of princes
Oriax : Marquis, demon who commands 30 legions; teaches astrology

>>6391070
Awesome and it makes sense. I also like the implication that there are inexplicable cosmic horrors living in the space between Hell, Earth and Heaven.

>>6391070
Basing it on remembrance seems rather cool. So what happens if someone dies?

>>6391019
Oh, absolutely. One or two were confirmed dead in the rebellion, and even now Midas' head decorates the uppermost spire of the First City's highest tower, but the remainder stalk the infinite fortress of Pandemonium, plotting and fuming and howling at the besieging force of Alexander outside their gates.

Satan, meanwhile, broods in the depths of the Ninth Circle, where no mortal has set foot and returned. Whether Dante's description is accurate, no-one knows. What they do know, is that Lucifer is an entity second only to Jehova himself. Should the Eighth Circle ever be conquered... It would perhaps be best to simply leave the Ninth be.

>>6391159
Ornias : name of the harassing demon
Ose : Great President, governs 30 legions
Paymon : a king of hell, master of ceremonies; governs 200 legions
Philatanus : Demon who assists Belial in sodomy and pedophile behaviors
Proserpine : aka Persephone, princess of hell
Pruflas : head of 26 legions, has the head of an owl; provokes wars and quarrels
Pyro : Prince of falsehoods and lies
Raum : Count or Great Earle, commands 30 legions; seen as a crow
Rimmon : aka Damas, an ambassador from hell
Ronove : Marquis of hell, commanding 19 legions, teaches languages
Ronwe : Inferior demon, commands 19 legions
Samael : demon angel of death, prince of the power of the air
Semiazas : Chief demon of fallen angels
Shax : Duke of hell, commanding 30 legions, deceitful thief; appears as a stork
Shalbriri : Demon of blindness
Sonneillon : Demon of hatred
Stolas : High prince of hell, commanding 26 legions; teacher of astronomy and plant properties
Succorbenoth : Chief eunuch, sexless, demon of gates
Thamuz : Ambassador of hell, demon master of big weapons
Ukobach : Inferior demon who maintains the fires of hell; appears ablaze
Uphir : Demon physician
Uvall : Duke, commanding 36 legions, knows the past, present and future; strong and scary
Valafar : Strong Duke, commands 10 legions, appears in the shape of a lion
Vepar : Grand Duke, strong; guide of waters, like a mermaid
Verdelet : Master of ceremonies
Verin : Demon of impatience
Vetis : Demon of corruption
Xaphan : Second order demon, former fallen angel, fans the furnace flames
Zagan : Demon King, deceitful, commands 33 legions
Zepar : Grand Duke, appears as a soldier, commanding 26 legions

>>6391182
Fucking Alexander, even in death he's a goddamn boss.

>Psyentysts

What?

>>6391125

That works fine. It does create more problems, but they are outside the scope of the setting. At least until you get to the point where people realize that there are no new souls entering Hell.

>>6391004
Oh, absolutely. Anyone stepping outside, say, the first two or three circles had better have some combat experience under their belt. And since technology levels are a bizarre steampunk/magitek/demongineering blend - let's call it Infernopunk - time spent down the firing range simply isn't going to cut it.

You can hand a desk jockey a flintlock pistol that fires knucklebones that explode into lavender flame - but he'll still get taken down by the massive Viking with a transplanted demon arm and a clockwork axe.

>>6391227
Also kind of Hogay.

I mostly prefer Genghis Khan. Not over his sexuality but RIP AND TEAR.

>>6391257

So who the fuck are they fighting and rebelling against when the demons are imprisoned in Hell for the same reason they are?

Hell is a timeless, ageless, fractal place. It has its own time, completely detached from mortal time. People from all timelines that have a human race end up in Hell. Not all at once, thanks to fractal time, but distributed throughout all possible times.

I love the idea of making memories be based on fame and rememberance.

It means all the big players in hell are going to be people your players will probably know, and it gives a handy out for why all the people in history who may have been brilliant but forgotten don't play such a big role.

>>6391277
Demons and fallen angels that were in charge and essentially the natural order.

>>6391277
The prospect of spending an eternity in servitude and getting tortured. Maybe the faint hope that once all of Hell is under mortal control, they may be able to find a way out or even invade Heaven.

>>6391282

Again, that doesn't work like you think it does. Either humanity goes extinct (like right now), or you'll end up with WAY more people from the future than from the past.

Mankind - even in death, there is no surrender.

>>6391242
that's the best part! the citizens of hell get to argue about whether the reducing numbers of people are caused by humanity reaching perfection or the end of the world.

>>6391299
Well seeing as most people forget almost everything but their name, there isn't going to be much of a difference aside from muscle mass between a Norsemen or a computer accountant knowledge-wise.

>>6391299
And again, you're applying mortal logic to infinite time.

>>6391298
I mean, what makes you think the demons are in charge in Dante's Inferno?

>>6391286
It also opens up the possibility of people being defined by how they were remembered: i.e. Shakespeare is more like the pop culture image of him than the actual shakespeare

>>6391324
not the guy you're replying to, but that's a bullshit excuse on the level of "a wizard did it."

>>6391323

I would imagine people keep the personalities and skills, they just forget their history.

Obviously they can make guesses based on what they have, but that's part of the fun.

Well, memories or not, people are going to know why they're in Hell because of their placement in the Circles.

>>6391299
Why are you trying apply science and logic to a mythic, magical setting?

>>6391362
So guy who did heroic reenactments might think he's from a completely different time period?

...I'm going to have to use this.

>>6390382
Why would the Seraphim be in charge of any Invasion? It'd be one of the Second Sphere Angels. (Dominions,Virtues,Powers or Authorities) May or may not see the Archangels as there duties are strictly tied to Earth. In fact many Angels would be working within there jobs or given abilties.

>>6391186
Thanks for this, by the way - it's very useful.

>>6390966
"Demon" is an umbrella term, derived from the Greek "daimon" meaning "spirit", and referring to a concept as old as religion itself. Demons are, at their most basic, any powerful nonhuman entity within Hell - ranging from rogue elementals or fae, to lost and forgotten spirits, to souls corrupted beyond recognition, all the way up to actual Fallen Angels.

A demon can be killed, as can anything else, but it takes some doing. Weaker demons will be about as resilient as an ordinary human soul (i.e. capable of extraordinary regeneration over time, and capable of withstanding more punishment before death than one might reasonably expect). Stronger demons' abilities to avoid death, however, grow exponentially. Whether regenerating from a single limb, splitting into component organs or creatures and reforming elsewhere, simply being tough to the point of idiocy, or actually being able to revive itself beyond the point of death, most demons have developed methods of avoiding Oblivion, though many of the more common ones can be circumvented with the right tools or methodology.

Fallen Angels are a different matter. It is believed - though only gross speculation and exaggerated folklore can be used as foundations here - that they cannot truly be killed. That to drive one to the brink of Oblivion is only but to send it into hiding, while it gathers its strength. That as a creator and caretaker of the universe, even a renegade one, they are simply too integral to Creation to slip into true nothingness.

>>6391345
YOU MEAN CHRIS MARLOW HAR HAR HAR

>>6391379

You need at least internal consistency, or there's no way it can be used as an RP setting.

>>6391299
I don't know, people have been around for a really long time.

>>6391323
If I could offer a possible explanation...

A Viking raider will still retain his knowledge of combat and war because that resonates with what Hell is. Consequently, a programmer isn't going to retain much unless he was a renowned individual famed across society.

So, your knowledge depends on whether your skills in life matched Hell's psychic fabric, like bloodletting, lust or avarice, and how well known you are. Individuals who were very skilled and very well known, Alexander, Caesar, Machiavelli, would naturally be power players in the afterlife.

>>6390160
Read The Salvation War.

I love OP and, based on the content of this thread, I think that it's safe to say that the OP loves me back.

>>6391403
>Machiavelli
>bloodletting, lust or avarice
wat

>>6391403
makes about as much sense as anything having to do with ghosts does

>>6391393
no worries, it's a cool idea you've got here

>>6391324

What the hell does that even mean? You don't seem to comprehend the situation. If people are entering hell from all of human history in a random distribution over the timeline, you will inevitably end up with way more future people than past people.

The only explanations that would work with your idea is if humans are no longer entering hell (preferably sometime soon, like 2010), or if you just hand wave the whole damn thing behind a "mystical paradox of I don't care about thinking things through."

>>6391379

Because you're going to need some internal consistency in the setting or everything turns into a jumbled mess of half-baked ideas and awkward gaming sessions.

>>6391403
What were they skilled at? Being privileged rich pieces of shit?

>>6391426
>if you just hand wave the whole damn thing behind a "mystical paradox of I don't care about thinking things through."

it seems pretty clear that this is what he's advocating

>>6391365
Or they would have, before the Rebellion...
As it stands, only the first 3 to 5 circles are "open for busienss," and those in Mortal hands. 6 and 7 are embattled, and 8 and 9 are still in demonic hands, so you've got, what, 3 souls on Level 9 and maybe a bunch of preverts, thieves, and liars on Level 8 (I imagine they'd stick around because the Dukes would promise them leniency and position when the Revolution is put down, and these are just the sort of people to take them up on that offer.)

>>6391403

So, assuming that PCs start out as generic, nameless fellows, they gain in power or "level up" by regaining their memories. I propose that all PCs were unknown but brilliant/badass, whether through their skill at combat or command or science or accounting. Gaining in skill in hell represents them unlocking their past memories, including why they were damned in the first place. As said, they would have personalities, but no pasts.

>>6391403
I don't think it's so much that you should retain knowledge if you're a warrior or sadistic or the like, but instead you should remember things that are just part your personality. Maybe the act of killing appealed greatly to you in life, and so it continues with you, as a personality quirk, though mastery of a weapon would not carry between life and the underworld.

>>6391431
So does that mean Paris Hilton will know more than most vague historical figures of less renown? Well I guess her knowledge wouldn't be useful and anyone who did remember her would probably want to punch her in the face so it's of little concern.

>>6391365
No, actually. See, before the rebellion they showed up (painfully) in Limbo before being sorted into the appropriate circle by Midas - but Limbo's now the capital of New Hell, and Midas is dead and mummified. There's no sorting process.

>>6391323
Incorrect - muscle memory, instinct, etc. Would still be there. The Viking (and I'm not sure why I keep coming back to this image, but I do) likely wouldn't remember the name of his village or country, or the manner of his death, but he'd remember how to swing an axe, or what good mead tasted like, and possibly even the face of his brother.

... I want to see Judas Iscariot as an NPC member of the party, only to betray the players at an important moment.

I dont think you should imply that mankind has gone extinct, because then you'd have guys from 2550 or whatever, that feels like it'd wouldnt fit with the setting.

I just had an image of some scholars (Differing time periods of course) just interviewing new arrivals.
*BAMF*
"-ET OUT OF HERE ITS GOING TO BLOW!"
"Hello"
"...What?"
"My friend, it saddens me to tell you this, but you have passed on, and not into Our Father's waiting arms."
"What?"
"Yes. You are not in the shining and glorious kingdom of heaven, but instead in the fiery underworld."
"What?"
"Dude. What my very retro friend here is trying to tell you, is that you've bought it, and are now in Hell."
"WHAT?"
"Jimmy, must you be so blunt?"
"OH GOD"
"He hasnt showed his face since we set up shop yet, so, yeah. Anyway. Name, year of death, and occupation?"
"Uh, um. John Cole. 1984. Police officer?"
"You a cop?"
"Bomb squad"
"Ok then John, I want you to go down that path and through those gate, ignore the sign, and watch you feet, we still havent cleaned up all the skulls yet."
"....Ok."

>>6391345

>>6391403 here. Definitely this too. Think about how exaggerated the pop culture interpretation of historical figures are. With that in mind, Alexander could conceivably lay siege to Pandemonium and Shakespeare could write plays that make attending angels weep.

>>6391443

I think it's a bit too vague then. I understand that having secret and unknown things is an important part of keeping the setting interesting, but you need to strike a balance. You want to give the players enough information to interest them, but not so little that they ignore it.

I think it'd be cooler if the PCs retained their memories and skills, and advancement was achieved by mastering their new immaterial forms and the fact that their strength and intelligence and even emotions are no longer limited by flesh and chemicals.

>>6391451
Oh, wow, I really like this.

>>6391494 here. I really like >>6391493 too.

>>6391482
okay
I'm imagining how motherfucking awesome a campaign even INVOLVING Abraham Lincoln would be

>>6391511
Why would Lincoln be in Hell?

>>6391471
Good little bit of flavor and all, but would the person remember stuff like their birthdate, or even their occupation, OP?

Not sure I like the idea of historical figures being demi-gods, it kind of takes away from the YOU'RE A DAMNED SOUL IN HELL AND IT'S A SHITTY PLACE aspect and turns it into a more standard Bangsian fantasy. Bangsian fantasies aren't exactly original, as you might be able to gather from the fact that there is a word for them.

>>6391418
Well not those traits for Big Mac. Maybe manipulation and deceit.
>>6391431
We're talking about the idea of an individual as opposed to the reality of him.

>>6391525
Civil War.

>>6391525
Pretty sure the Bible says something about people who don't shave going to hell.

>>6391525

Noone's gone to heaven since Jesus in this setting, check Revlid's posts.

>>6391566
Oh. That sucks.

>>6391541
If you ask me, the historical figures are interesting because they serve as a sort of setpiece enlivening the YOU ARE A DEAD DUDE IN HELL which is the vast bulk of the story. I don't think anyone's recommending that the story should revolve around them, or even that there should be regular contact with them.

>>6391533
*Not OP*

Not everyone needs to forget. I just had an idea of Scholarly book keeping dudes interviewing the new guys to try to keep up with world history.

Think of all the old philosophers who would shit themselves to learn that we have robots on mars, and all the scientists who would say "TOLD YA!"

Anyway: Perhaps PCs could chose to remember or forget at character creation? Different options for advancement?

>>6391580
if they're the most powerful beings in the setting then it's going to revolve around them

>>6391482
may i lend my own ideas? Vikings, as ancient warriors of renown, are better remembered than the average dark ages foot soldier who died fighting them. As such, they would retain the aspects for which Viking warriors are most often remembered such as weapon skills, endurance, sailing lore, and poetry. The average footsoldier would only have some bow or melee weapon skills and maybe know farming or tailoring. But neither would remember any details of their own lives.

>>6391580
oh, also: they're part of what makes the setting unique and separate from the run-of-the-mill fantasy dystopia, along with the demons.

>>6391406
>>6390870

Just thought I'd address this now - this isn't the sort of feel I'm going for. Think smaller, but bigger at the same time (and that's the sort of vocab that shows the timezone difference). There isn't going to be a war against Heaven. There isn't going to be a war against or with the Mortal Realm. It's less "Humans invade Hell", and more "Hell as a mortal-dominated, infernopunk-wild-west setting". Epic things are happening left right and centre, no doubt, but only in the same way that epic things are happening left right and centre in, say, Exalted - they're happening, but it's an eternal stalemate unless your characters get involved/the DM feels like throwing you a new plot hook.

Am I getting this across, or do I need more sleep?

Also, no modern day weaponry. The absolute most conventionally-advanced-looking stuff you'd find would be... WW1 era? Maybe? And even that would be weird and baroque and have tendons instead of gears and what have you. I mean, there's no real petrol to be found in Hell.

>>6391544
Why would the idea of the individual be represented rather than the actuality? Does that mean fictional characters exist too? Is Bugs Bunny in this setting?

>>6391590
they're the most powerful beings in the setting in the same way that chief financial officers or generals are the most powerful beings in real life.

>>6391602
>I mean, there's no real petrol to be found in Hell.

Sounds like as good an excuse as any.

>>6391541
See that's the thing. You're in Hell and yet, there's this undercurrent of optimism. You've risen up against Hell's overseers and won, for now. You've circumvented and outright defied God's plans for Creation. You're at the center of something completely new.

Do you seek to gain power and influence in the treacherous and intrigue-choked halls of Limbo? Do you seek a measure of solace by recovering your memories? Maybe you wish to venture into the wastes of in the deep rings and recover lost treasures undiscovered since the Fall. Or, perhaps you'll serve a legend from history and lay siege to Lucifer's throne room.

>>6391613
if bugs bunny died and went to hell, sure.

I'd like to point some problems with the Angelic stuff the Op was mentioning. First the Seraphim are the Guardians of Gods Throne. Next there are only four of them. They wouldnt be leading any Angelic Exepedtion into the Inferno any time soon as thats not within there job description. (Those jobs would be given to Second Sphere or First Sphere Angels. No First Sphere's would be even remotely involved.)

Next Death in the Inferno is impossible as there already dead. Most of the Denizens get ripped to shreds, burnt, drowned,crushed constantly. Death should be handled as either temporary. (Appearing back in whatever Ring they were sent to, to begin with.) However it could be possible for a Demon to permantely (Unless all the pieces are put back together.) dismember someone (Say chop off there head.) Then do something like freeze it, hide it, or put it on a pike as a warning to unwary mortals. (Annoying talking heads who constantly ask where there bodies are. or hurl insults and etc.)

Also you'd have an issue of folks that are really EVIL that really DESERVED to be sent down there. So folks would not only be fighting demons from the darker rings of hell but rogue groups of physchopaths that have found that there no longer being punished for there sins and decide to go back to there old wicked ways.

>>6391613
see my idea please

>>6391613
No soul, no entry.

>>6391182

I don't know, I would think that people would be clamoring to get to the Ninth Circle. If Dante was right (which he has been so far), the only exit out of hell is through Satan himself.

>>6391671
>Next Death in the Inferno is impossible as there already dead. Most of the Denizens get ripped to shreds, burnt, drowned,crushed constantly. Death should be handled as either temporary. (Appearing back in whatever Ring they were sent to, to begin with.) However it could be possible for a Demon to permantely (Unless all the pieces are put back together.) dismember someone (Say chop off there head.) Then do something like freeze it, hide it, or put it on a pike as a warning to unwary mortals. (Annoying talking heads who constantly ask where there bodies are. or hurl insults and etc.)

>Also you'd have an issue of folks that are really EVIL that really DESERVED to be sent down there. So folks would not only be fighting demons from the darker rings of hell but rogue groups of physchopaths that have found that there no longer being punished for there sins and decide to go back to there old wicked ways.

I like these.

>
Also you'd have an issue of folks that are really EVIL that really DESERVED to be sent down there. So folks would not only be fighting demons from the darker rings of hell but rogue groups of physchopaths that have found that there no longer being punished for there sins and decide to go back to there old wicked ways.
this reminds me of John Dies at the End.
getting the relevant passage now...

>>6391627

Well, they may think they've circumvented God's plans, but I rather like the implications of him being a chestmaster Just As Planned sort of fellow, who never lets anyone know what he's thinking. Just because the mortals have taken over Hell doesn't mean it goes against God's will. Mind you, I don't think that God himself really has any place in this setting beyond the beliefs of the religious damned and what lost seraphs tell. He should seem divested from the situation, and wouldn't be a factor in the campaign beyond background.

I ran my hands through my hair and glanced at the darkened sockets on the decomposing mall where windows should have been. I heard the faint sound
of a plastic tarp snapping in the breeze somewhere.
“Well?”
“You scared, Arnie?”
“Should I be? Is this place haunted?”
“Nothin’ so simple as that. I wish it was. You say it’s haunted and you picture the ghost of some old lady wandering around aimlessly. The things that
come and go around here, I don’t know that they were ever human. Or maybe they just don’t remember it. Try to imagine a Hitler or a Vlad the Impaler or even
the nasty old man at the dump who steals people’s cats and buries them alive. Now imagine those guys but strip them of all their limitations. No bodies, so they never die or run down or get tired. Give them literally all the time in the world.
Imagine that malice, that stupid hate just burning on and on and on like an oil well fire-“
“-Yes, they’re demons. They’re evil. I got it.”
“-No, you get it but you don’t get it. What if you crossed somethin’ like that? I mean, really pissed it off. That irrational rage just boiling over and over
and over. Words of reason or begging to a thing like that, would be like squeals from a mouse in a trap. All it means is that they’ve got you.

It’d carry that mindless grudge on and on, for centuries. Long after you’ve gone nuts, long after you’ve gone dead. Picture it tormenting your great granddaughter’s great granddaughter over it, planting fish hooks in her psyche until she’s screaming herself to sleep every night.”
“Like, what, a curse? You think you’re cursed now? Your family?”
“Not even that. You keep wanting to revert back to things you know, things from movies. ‘Ghosts’ and ‘demons’ and ‘curses. You use a word like ‘curse’ and
you think of mummies and boobie-trapped tombs and all that Egyptian bullshit. It’s nothing like that, nothing so mystical and invisible. A curse, hell, you could
maybe live for a day and forget it was there. Not this. Not this.”
Arnie sat, waiting for me to go on. I didn’t. I was realizing all of a sudden how hard it was going to be to tell this next part.

>>6391602
The setting could of course be more intimate and player focused, but these ideas should at least be part of the background. Distant rumblings from the future that's spoken of by the populace.

>>6391566
>>6391573
Whoops - not what I actually meant to imply, there.

Just because Hell hasn't seen anyone in Heaven doesn't mean there's no-one there, just that they haven't seen anyone passing by through Purgatory. Devout people who follow all the Commandments will still go to Heaven - but it seems empty. Where have all the Heavenbound gone?

Make no mistake, going by the Bible (every testament, just to doublescrew the mortals) everyone in Hell deserves to be there. By modern definitions? A whole lot don't. Atheists, agnostics, "pagans", homosexuals, even lots of actual sinners all deserve better than this. But this is what they've got, because God said so.

Or so we've been told, anyway. It's a pity we can't ask Him.

-------------

All of you arguing about the timeline, there are two ways you could do this:

*The Rapture happened 2012, ending human history. All souls appear in Hell at a basically random, evenly spread pace.

*Souls appear, with some time lag and a bit of jumbling, roughly in the order they died. It's the modern day in the Living Land, not that this really matters.

--------------------

On the matter of memories empowering people - hm. I'm not sure about this. On the one hand, it explains why known historical figures are so badass beyond setting flavour. On the other hand, I'd definitely rather they weren't demigods - just making them legitimately Badass Normals with more access to their memories than others would be fine, I'd think.

Also - why would Shakespeare be in Hell?

Hitler gets beat up by...pretty much everyone. Forever.

Its the "New Guy" initiation, and how they prove its not a trick set up by the devil.

"Hey, welcome to Hell."
"I dont understand! I-I-I wasnt evil, I never killed anybody!"
"True, true. Wanna beat up Hitler to take the edge off?"
"..."
*Later*
"NIEN"
*thump*

>>6391784
>why would Shakespeare be in Hell?
We don't know a lot about him, so it's safe to assume he had his artistic indulgences. You could always just make up conspiracy theories, like how he sabotaged the bible's translation.

>>6391784
>Also - why would Shakespeare be in Hell?

eating shellfish or some shit

>>6391763
Fuck yeah John Dies at The End.

>>6390790
>>Besides, original sin is one of the most important themes of Christian theology.

And yet, completely unsupported by the Bible

>>6391806

That's pretty funny. I would prefer Hitler to be more unique individual in Hell though. Maybe he tries to repent his sins by organizing a military against the demons.

as for why you don't get far future people from earth into hell, here's an question: why would you only get humans (i'm talking in the contemporary sense) in hell? If humanity has changed to such an extent as to no longer be placed into an afterlife, be it because of increasing advances in technology (gengineering, consciousness uploading, singularity, etc.) or simply changing belief patterns and worshipping SCIENCE instead of any belief in any deity whatsoever, perhaps that's one reason why you don't get any far future humans in hell: they're no longer 'human.'

This could bring about a gehenna situation in which the alternate reality of Hell is breached by some future human explorer craft, and it crashes with the pilot going O GOD WTFBBQSAUCE. Queue quest giving NPC trying to get back home and rebuild his craft to bring some reinforcements to this dimension to help free humanity for the final battle against the Ninth Circle

>>6391784
It is of course your setting, but I still humbly suggest that truly legendary figures be empowered proportional to their modern day accumulated recognition. So, you wont have George Washington wielding a giant axe with a flintlock built into the haft, but Alexander the Great challenging a lieutenant Demon to single combat? I can dig it.

Also, I guess Shakespeare would be in Hell for his works regarding and glorifying pagan creatures and ghosts, if you really want to be a stickler for the Old Testaments.

>>6391836
good point; after all, the rest of this thread is entirely as described in the Bible

>>6391836

Theology has surprisingly little to do with scripture. It's kind of "take the ball and run with it" at best.

>>6391849
Nazis crusading for good?

FUCKING MORAL DILEMMA, NIGGERS. SIDE WITH HITLER, OR SIDE WITH THE DEVIL?

>>6391710
Well God is Omniscient. In this sort of setting he might have intended for Mankind to take control. Hell maybe this is one big Test to try and get Mortals to redeem themselves and get to Heaven.

Anyway on my Idea to handle Death. Physical Death is impossible due to them not being, creatures of flesh and blood anymore. Rather there Souls. And Souls cannot die There a force that transcends mere death. The Soul is an enternal force thats meant to continue on. If someone were to "die" in hell they'd find themselves back in the ring they were sent to. (This actually makes a tad of sense considering that when people are ripped,stabbed,crushed,boiled,beaten,eaten,burnt and etc. They just continue on as if nothing happened. It's logical to assume that if someone were to "die" in another ring they return to that ring.

Permanent Dismemberment is when a demon, Fallen Angel, or other Supernatural being is able to dismember a soul into smaller bits. The soul doesnt perish but continues to exsist in an albiet seperated fashion. The pieces can be mended but it'd be nescessary to find each rogue piece and put them back together. The minions of hell would use this in order to try and fight off the humans. Or as a safe way in capturing,punishing or immoblizing human beings. (The PC's pass by a row of pikes with cackling heads swapping jokes,cursing,wailing and lamentation or asking the adventurers if they've seen any missing body parts.) Demons woul keep high value prisoners safe within there strongholds hidden and isolated. (Freezing the head or placing it somewhere as a sort of trophy.)

>>6391806
Except realistically most people born before early modern era would be shaking Hitler's hand for his success in killing those annoying jews and gypsies.

>>6391690
>>I don't know, I would think that people would be clamoring to get to the Ninth Circle. If Dante was right (which he has been so far), the only exit out of hell is through Satan himself.

And THAT is why the last two circles of Hell are so powerfully fortified AGAINST Humanity, because in their spite and hatred, they do NOT want mankind escaping the pit that they, themselves CAN NEVER LEAVE.

If THEY have to be there, then the innocent ghost of the smallest unbaptized baby must not ever EVER be allowed to leave either.

>>6391710
Oh, absolutely. Totally Ineffable, and entirely up to interpretation. Has He vanished? Is He just reclusive? Is He behind the disappearance of Heaven's souls, or a victim of the same circumstance, or the orchestrator of both? Totally irrelevant to PCs of any reasonable level, but fun for speculation.

>>6391671
Angels: Fair enough. I'm shamefully ignorant about them. I need to fix that, though they shouldn't show up enough that it'd matter, short-term.

Dying: Here's where I'm going to have to outright contradict Dante - some of what he said was, in this setting, inaccurate.

Not his fault, of course. Dante had no reason to believe the dead could die, and seeing the torments they suffered eternally made it all the more obvious they couldn't. However, those Pandemonium-sanctioned torments were effectively under demonic "safety gloves". Mortals are a hell of a lot tougher as souls than they were alive, more capable of pulling Charles Atlas Superpower feats, even able to regrow limbs or organs over time - but they're not immortal. They can still die, and when they do they die forever - it's described as Oblivion, the endless nothingness so many atheists were oddly relieved not to have discovered upon their demise.

EVIL: Oh, yeah. There are a hell (pun not intended) of a lot of genuinely evil people down there. For some, it's blunted by a loss of memories. For others, not so much. For other others, their tendency toward destruction and perversion has only been heightened by the passage into Hell. Most end up becoming demons of some kind, while a scant few try to redeem themselves, and others simply join society in similar roles to those they played in the Living Land. It's Hell, remember - its morality was always going to be somewhat skewed, even under the Mortal Rule.

If you need to make death possible, I say that you could still do it by either:
-having your soul eaten (the cannibal probably gains power by absorbing your spirit's strength too, while we're at it), or
-your existence being erased altogether from history, which demons or some shit might be able to pull of.

>>6391597
Well to be fair the modern man mostly doesn't think of the Vikings as poets and those who were around at the same time and centuries afterwards merely thought of them as barbarians. Most of their poetry is renown globally because of discoveries nowadays.

Though you'd end up seeing Vikings coming across crazy samurai and Mongol Hordes though, and who doesn't want to see that?

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mortal_inferno

Get to work!

I think what's even better about this is what inevitably happens when humanity wins.

They're going to be out for blood against the deity that condemned them to eternal torment.

Regarding death, maybe with the cosmic balance disrupted by the sudden change in Hell, death can still occur. Since bodies in Hell are simply memory formed matter coalescing around souls, they can still be harmed and perhaps destroyed. Singular individuals like the players are of course more resilient and capable of great feats, becoming moreso as they gain experience.

Similarly, various creatures, Demons and Angels can be harmed if we go by this reasoning.

This setting is amazing. But one of the major problems with it is that world population is weighted quite heavily towards the future (for example, there are more people alive today than have died throughout the course of all of human civilization).

One solution for this: most of the people residing in hell are shades. As earlier posters suggested, most people enter hell with little to no memory--but taking that further, because people are incorporeal creatures of spirit, no memory means no distinct body. Therefore, the majority of Hell's population are shapeless, ghostlike creatures. Over time, shades will slowly regain their memories and appearance--which means that most ancient people have emerged from shadehood, but newer generations (most of the people born after the Industrial Revolution's population expansion) are still shades.

This will allow modern characters to be about equal in number to ancient characters. It will also explain why ancient characters have so much more influence despite lacking knowledge of science and medicine--they have been out of shadehood for longer, and are much better developed, perhaps far beyond what they were in life now that their spirits are not constrained by the limits of flesh.

The fact that shades do not necessarily emerge from the mists of unthinking confusion at the same rate also allows for people from different eras to come "into the world" at the same time, allowing a new group of players to come from any time period they like.

>>6391849
I... I'd really like this idea, if it weren't for the fact that Hitler was a repulsive, petty little man.

Hitler is believed to have become a demon, who was recorded as being consumed by the Hydra of Sinew Pass some three decades ago.

ROMMEL is leading the Fourth Redemptionist Reich, and to Oblivion with any Nazi not willing to earn their forgiveness!

>>6392066 ROMMEL is leading the Fourth Redemptionist Reich, and to Oblivion with any Nazi not willing to earn their forgiveness!

I kind of like this. Rommel always seemed a more reasonable man to me.

This setting also has the potential for some seriously creepy shit. Like, what happens to all those stillborn or aborted babies? Would there be these partially developed babies wandering about? And how would they be accepted by the other souls in Hell?

In fact, how would people appear in hell? Would they appear as they were when they died, or would they define their own age? Or would they simply be generic, vague humans with no real distinguishing features?

you know, we could solve the problem of future people, when it's set, heaven's involvement, and the reason for the upheaval pretty elegant by simply saying
-people enter the place they're assigned to at the moment of death
-the apocalypse just happened, but in a nuclear war or Captain Trips or some similar man-made disaster instead of how it's laid out in the bible (an incredibly small fraction of the population has survived)
-the huge numbers of dead people suddenly arriving in hell tipped the balances of power there and led to the revolt
-god and the angels have more important things to attend to, whether or not heaven is actually open for business

>>6392042
>despite lacking knowledge of science and medicine

that's not going to matter much when you're not in the physical universe anymore bro

>>6392018
Not really.....I mean hell. How could anyone even get remotely close to killing God. I mean Hells Bells people have calced Angelic Killing power and the 12 Legions Christ could have summoned up could kill all 6.6 billion human beings on earth in roughly 60 minutes.

>>6392018

What makes you think humanity will win?

Oh, they've carved out their enclave in Hell, for sure, but this isn't just a Dante-themed HUMANITY FUCK YEAH thread. It's at best a Wild West where the Indians are twelve-foot tall venom-breathing musclemen made of copper and maggots.

If I were writing rules for this setting, the section on Satan would read - "Anything that sets foot in the Ninth Circle dies. No saves, no take-backs, no whining." He's a real Cosmic Horror, and that's when he's totally immobilised in ice.

Fighting God? A total impossibility. It'd be like carpet-bombing the Sun.

>>6392066
I like your idea better than mine, it definitely has more flavor to it.

>>6392112
Yes, this is what I think the settings has huge potentials for. You can have your gruesome biological horrors, your psychological horrors, your "what the hell happened to everyone" horrors, etc...

Okay, for those with issues (including you, OP) regarding the overpowering nature of historical figures, think of it this way.
Life in whatever country you live in revolves around powerful central figures. Some of them got there legitimately (hold the conspiracy theories and political jibber-jabber, plox) such as a president, prime minister, or king. Others acquire their power through illegitimate means, crime lords and the children of the extremely wealthy. In the same way, some historical figures are justifiably badass (I'm lookin at YOU, Hannibal) and others have undeserved reputations (George Washington's axe).
But however powerful those people are...
how many times have YOU seen the President of the United States? The head of a mafia family? Paris Hilton? Chances are MAYBE one of them, on a very few occasions, and almost definitely NOT all 3 (unless you're JFK...). A country is a big, populated place, and Hell is surely bigger and fuller. Just because these movers and shakers exist, and hold sway over the major happenings of Hell, doesn't mean that every Tom, Dick, and Harry will always be bumping into Honest Abe or Caligula. The famous and influential don't hobnob with plebes in Hell any more than they did in life. Once your characters advance and become power players, they might fight in the vanguard alongside Alexander the Great, and maybe even sup at his right hand in his tent after a great victory... but the next day, there's more fighting to do, and Alex needs to be off to the Sixth to defeat Uvall and his legions.

tl;dr it's not Forgotten Realms, and Elminster doesn't teleport around looking for lowbies to jizz all over with his wizard semen of +5 levels.

>perhaps far beyond what they were in life now that their spirits are not constrained by the limits of flesh.
I like this idea. Essentially, everyone in hell starts out as a mindless shade, then begins to develop more and more over time, not towards what they were in life, but towards their "ideal" self (defined both by their own personality and how others regard them).

Maybe this is the true nature of souls in the afterlife--spirits whose templates were defined by living creatures, growing towards some sort of Platonic ideal. Perhaps that's why Hell was set up in the first place--to wear souls down and keep them from growing. Perhaps demons are just the evolved souls of evil and twisted men. Whereas the souls of good men evolve into... what? Angels? Superheroes? Something more? Something that Heaven is afraid of?

>>6392153
Likely to happen? No. The dream of many mortals, having seen what they have achieved in Hell? Oh yes.

If I ever play this setting, I would inevitably end up being this guy. He defined my childhood.

>>6392153
Hell, how do you define "win" in this setting? For most, it's trying to get by on a day-to-day life in Hell. It's not like the legions of Heaven are knocking on their doors.

>>6392112
Well, that's where the Foetus Seaway comes in. Yes, it is what it sounds like.

Remember, under the Mortal Rule or not, Hell is Hell. The sky is grey and red with purple lightning that sounds like screams, the only soft ground is either unpleasantly fleshy, lava, or soaked in the blood of a battlefield, and bone is a common building material. It's a nasty environment.

On the subject of fertility - I've come up with three solutions:
*No fertility. Everyone's dead, no-one ages, kids can be taken in if you want.
*People are fertile, but it's a Very Bad Idea to have a child with another Hellion. The resulting sprog is called Hellspawn for a reason.
*It's possible to "adopt" a child from the Foetus Seaway, growing it like a bizarre plant or malnourished animal - but this is frankly entering territory that even I'm uncomfortable with.

>>6392260

There's potential for some really good monsters as well. Are there monsters? Does Hell have any other flora/fauna besides humans and demons?

>>6392260
"Hellspawned Sprog" is now the name of a Heavy Metal band... IN HELL.
All the members are the result of Damned-on-Damned sechs.

Anyway, I posted this just as I meant to go to bed, and honestly didn't expect this positive a response. I thank you all kind /tg/entlemen for your encouragement, feedback, and ideas - I hope someone archives this, because it's half-four in the morning over in Old Blighty and my mouth tastes like old toast, so I'm off to bed.

>>6392260
Bother the latter two ideas are amazing. Hell-born individuals by couples who don't know any better or are just desperately hopeful are misshapen, utterly evil grotesques that are exiled and wander the wastes. Mother and father wannabes sail above the Foetus Seaway, picking those that catch their eye and tossing back the ones that are undesirable.

Holy fuck what did I just write?

PLOTHOLE PLOTHOLE PLOTHOLE

If someone's memory is based on how well they are currently remembered by the living (such that "a renaissance in the Living Land" can restore your memory), that implies a direct relationship between hell-time and earth-time.

>>6392362

You conjured up a fantastic image in my mind of a majestic sail-age ship plowing through right through an ocean of misshapen and crying babies. Fishermen drag hooks through the sea to catch babies and keep the ones that look good. Since humans can regenerate wounds to a certain degree, this isn't that big of a problem. They sell the babies back to desperate couples. This job is not without risk; there are things lurking in the seaway that no one dare speaks off.

>>6392406

Meh...

I'm okay with >>6391784 Rapture in 2012 just to establish a concrete end to the "modern era" and explain what, exactly, caused the Mortal Revolution in the first place.

>>6392406
I think it's intentional. There's supposed to be a correlation between the two. Though, if we assume that the apocalypse has occurred, who can remember the last person who died?

>>6392112

I'd say people shouldn't have fixed ages. They should have access to all ages they lived through I think.

Now, the question would be whether you can pick what age you're at or not. I'd go for unconscious control; most of the time you are at the age when you were at your "brightest" or when you were happiest, but if you ran into, I dunno, your mother that died when you were twelve, you might temporarily revert to twelve years old, or earlier. People would flicker between ages based on their mental and emotional state.

Well, that might be a bit complex. And the conscious control method would have its bonuses too.

>>6392406

I don't remember anyone mentioning that. All that was said was your retention of memory is based on how popular you were at time of death.

There is a relationship between Earth time and Hell time. That's why you don't have people from the year 2500 popping up. However, relative time between Earth and Hell is completely meaningless since no one knows how long the "death lag" is.

This is for the OP and other readers regarding Angels.

The three groups of Angels are regarded as either Hierarchies, Spheres or Triads of Choirs

The First Sphere work as heavenly guardians of God's throne.
The Seraphim (singular "Seraph"),serve as the caretakers of God's throne and continuously shout praises: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts. All the earth is filled with His Glory." It is said that such a bright light emanates from them that nothing, not even other divine beings, can look upon them. It is also said that there are four of them surrounding God's throne, where they burn eternally from love and zeal for God. The name Seraphim means "the burning ones." The Seraphim have six wings; two covering their faces, two covering their bodies ("feet"), and two with which they fly. One of the mentioned Serpaphim is Seraphiel

(The Chief of the Seraphim. Seraphiel is described as an enormous, brilliant angel as tall as the seven heavens with a face like the face of angels and a body like the body of eagles. He is beautiful like lightning and the light of the morning star. As chief of the seraphim, he is committed to their care and teaches them songs to sing for the glorification of God. In magical lore, Seraphiel is one of the rulers of Tuesday and also the planet Mercury. He is invoked from the North.)

>>6392422
Fuck year.

The next is the Cherubim The Cherubim (singular "Cherub") are beyond the throne of God; they are the guardians of light and of the stars. It is believed that, although they are separated from Earth, the divine light that they filter down from Heaven still touches the lives of living things.

They have four faces: one of each a man, an ox, a lion, and an eagle. The ox-face is considered the "true face", as later on in Ezekiel the ox's face is called a cherub's face (Chapter 10). They have four conjoined wings covered with eyes, and they have ox's feet.

Cherubim are considered the elect beings for the purpose of protection. Cherubim guard the way to the tree of life in the Garden of Eden
and the throne of God Their rank among angels is uncertain but they are always categorized in the First Sphere. Some believe them to be an order or class of angels; others hold them to be a class of heavenly beings higher than angels. Cherubim are said to have perfect knowledge of God, surpassed only by the love of the Seraphim.

Thrones The Thrones (Greek:. thronos) or Elders, also known as the Erelim or Ophanim, are a class of celestial beings mentioned by Paul of Tarsus.and related to the throne of God the Father. They are living symbols of God's justice and authority, and have as one of their symbols the throne. These high celestial beings are mentioned in Revelation.The Thrones (Gr. thronos) may possibly be equated with the Lords of Wisdom, a Hierarchy of Elohim astrologically associated to Virgo, presented in The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception. They inhabit, in Rosicrucian cosmology, the World of Divine Spirit, which is the home of The Father. According to this source, the Lords of Wisdom (here equated with the Thrones; thronos) and the higher Lords of the Flame (Thrones/Wheels: Ophanim) have worked together in a far past toward the development of humankind.

Ophanim The Ophanim (Heb. owphan: Wheels, also known as Thrones, from the vision of Daniel 7:9) are unusual looking even compared to the other celestial beings; They appear as a beryl-coloured wheel-within-a-wheel, their rims covered with hundreds of eyes.

They are closely connected with the Cherubim: "When they moved, the others moved; when they stopped, the others stopped; and when they rose from the earth, the wheels rose along with them; for the spirit of the living creatures [Cherubim] was in the wheels."
In Esoteric Christianity they are called Lords of Flame. De Coelesti Hierarchia refers the Thrones (from the Old Testament; Ezekiel and Daniel visions of the Thrones/Wheels) as the third Order of the first sphere, corresponding to the description of the Ophanim; the other two superior orders being the Cherubim and Seraphim. The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception refers that the "Lords of the Flame", the Hierarchy of Elohim astrologically assigned to Leo, are the Thrones "because of the brilliant luminosity of their bodies and their great spiritual powers.", corresponding also to the description of the Ophanim; the other two superior hierarchies being also the Cherubim and Seraphim.

>>6392522
> and the light of the morning star
> light of the morning star
> the morning star
> lucifer
> God's chief protector is lucifer
oshi

>>6392422
Fuck yes. Christ that's amazingly horrific in every way.

The Second Sphere.Angels of the Second Sphere work as heavenly governors.

Dominions
The Dominions (lat. dominatio, pl. dominationes), also known as the Hashmallim, hold the task of regulating the duties of lower angels. It is only with extreme rarity that the angelic lords make themselves physically known to mortals. They are also the angels who preside over nations.

The Dominions are believed to look like divinely beautiful humans with a pair of feathered wings, much like the common representation of Angels, but they may be distinguished from other groups by wielding orbs of light fastened to the heads of their sceptres or on the pommel of their swords. Dominions may possibly be equated with the Lords of Individuality, a Hierarchy of Elohim astrologically associated to Libra, presented in The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception. They inhabit, in Rosicrucian cosmology, the World of Life Spirit, which is the home of Christ.The Dominions are also translated from the Greek term "kuriotes" as Lordships, related to the Lord Christ-Jesus, and also Leaders. They are presented as the hierarchy of celestial beings Lordships in the De Coelesti Hierarchia.

Virtues
The Virtues or Strongholds lie beyond the Ophanim (Thrones/Wheels). Their primary duty is to supervise the movements of the heavenly bodies in order to ensure that the cosmos remains in order.

The term appears to be linked to the attribute "Might", from the Greek root "dunamis"which is also translated as "Virtue" (probably due to the powerful nature of these high celestial beings They are presented as the celestial Choir "Virtues", in the Summa Theologica, and the theological conception of these highest beings appears to describe the same high Order, in touch with God, called the Thrones (Greek. thronos).

Powers
The Powers (lat. potestas (f), pl. potestates) are the bearers of conscience and the keepers of history. They are also the warrior angels created to be completely loyal to God. Some believe that no Power has ever fallen from grace, but another theory states that Satan was the Chief of the Powers before he Fell (see also Ephesians 6:12). Their duty is to oversee the distribution of power among humankind, hence their name. In the Occult
The Powers may possibly be equated with the Lords of Mind, a Hierarchy of Elohim astrologically associated to Sagittarius, presented in The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception. They inhabit, in Rosicrucian cosmology, the World of Thought in the Region of Concrete Thought (lower region; the Christian Second Heaven), which is the location of the human mind. This region is also described as the place where one of the three records of the Memory of Nature, covering the essence of a whole life or events, is kept-stored.

Authorities
The Powers are also translated, from the Greek term "exousia", as Authorities These celestial beings appear to collaborate, in power and authority (as implied in their etymology source), with the Principalities (Rulers).

Okay guys, what the hell. I apparently suck at sup/tg/.

I couldn't find this archive, so I updated it myself with tags of hell and campaign.
It says it updated, but then I search for the tags and I don't get this.

Please enlighten me as to how the fuck I'm messing up.

Third Sphere:Angels who function as heavenly messengers and soldiers.

Principalities
The Principalities (lat. principatus, pl. principatūs) are shown wearing a crown and carrying a sceptre. Their duty also is said to be to carry out the orders given to them by the Dominions and bequeath blessings to the material world. Their task is to oversee groups of people. As beings related to the world of the germinal ideas, they are said to inspire living things to many things such as art or science.
The Principalities may possibly be equated with the Lords of Form, a Hierarchy of Elohim astrologically associated to Scorpio, presented in The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception. They inhabit, in Rosicrucian cosmology, the World of Thought in the Region of Abstract Thought (higher region; the Christian Third Heaven), which is the home of Jehova (YHWH), The Holy Spirit.The Principalities are also translated, from the Greek term "arche", as Princedoms and also Rulers These celestial beings appear to collaborate, in power and authority (as implied in their etymology source), with the Powers (Authorities).

Archangels
word archangel comes from the Greek αρχάvγελος (archangělǒs), meaning chief angel It derives from the Greek archō, meaning to be first in rank or power; and aggělǒs which means messenger. This suggests that they are the highest ranking angels. There are Seven Archangels,Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Raguel, Zerachiel and Remiel.They (The Seven Archangels) are said to be the guardian angels of nations and countries, and are concerned with the issues and events surrounding these, including politics, military matters, commerce and trade: e.g. Archangel Michael is traditionally seen as the protector of Israel and of the Ecclesia theologically equated as the Church, the forerunner of the spiritual New Israel.

Angels
The Angels, also known as the Malakh wat watim (messengers or angels), are the lowest order of the angels, and the most recognized. They are the ones most concerned with the affairs of living things. Within the category of the angels, there are many different kinds, with different functions. The angels are sent as messengers to humankind.

Here's the archive link http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6389879/

To be honest whoever did it could have done a much better job. Enjoy your time in Hell for failing to archive appropriately.

>>6392481
>>6392475
>>6392439
>>6392436
I think the "shades" idea here >>6392042 solves the time vs. population problem pretty well without having to resort to the apocalypse or death lag or anything. Hell is matched to the current day, it's just that the vast majority of people are still quiescent, non-communicative shades--a kind of "hibernation" or "cocoon" period for the soul. There would be exceptions (maybe people who died is exceptional circumstances), but in general there would be very few people around from the 20th century.

Maybe one of the major projects for the new rulers of Hell is to shepard and protect the shades, who are preyed on as a food source by demons/other creatures. Hellion soul-psychologists might be working to "awaken" hibernating shades, especially those that have slept beyond their time (could give an entry point for players who want to play newly awakened modern characters right alongside newly awakened ancient characters)

>>6392587
The only tag I see is "Setting"

I don't think angels would be appearing very much at all in this setting. They would only visit Hell on extremely special occasions. Most would only be scouting parties to gather information on The Mortal Order. These angels wouldn't be all-powerful entities capable of destroying hordes of humans and demons. They would be very cautious, worrisome, or even outright scared.

>>6392522 >>6392534
Meh. I'll stick to the D&D versions.

>>6391511 >>6391525
Abraham Lincoln was a self-avowed Atheist. He only invoked God in political speeches to get the religious vote.

>>6392628
I love it. Extraordinary circumstances give way to new social and administrative problems and spur the development of strange new sciences, combining modern day procedure with occultist intuition.

What if the pouring in of humans from the time they go extinct is what sparked the rebellion? You can work with some 2012 bullshit so you don't have to make the extinction too far off in the future.

How would this setting handle magic?

>>6392730

That's one of the possible ideas to work with. However, the creator (Revlid) already stated that the most recent arrivals are roughly from the WWI period. This rebellion happened some time before that.

>>6392656
An Angel? Scared? Why would they be? These are beings with the full backing of heaven. And there nothing to sneeze at. While uncomfortable. (They ARE in Hell which is enemy territory for them.) They arent going to be UBER worried.

>>6392695
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_religion

>>6392755

Most likely how everyone imagines magic to be, with a bunch of daemonic and occult flavor thrown in. Technology in this setting consists of a fusion between steampunk and daemonic squishy stuff.

>>6390343
Nobody ever answered my question, and it's still very important. From a gameplay and fluff perspective, how do we handle death?

>>6392771
I just think it would fit with the setting better. The angels shouldn't be running around Hell beating the shit out of everything. They should be genuinely concerned for their own safety because of the recent events. That's part of the background lore; the Rebellion was completely unexpected. Who knows what else is possible.

>>6392799
welcome back to shade'dom

>>6392799

Revlid already addressed that:

>>6391975

>>6392799
Revlid answered. You disappear into Oblivion. You cease to be.

>>6392799
You lie there insensate for a while, which wouldn't be so bad except whatever killed you doesn't lose interest. Beasts might continue to worry your corpse, preventing any revival, or demons might drag you off for their purposes. Up to the GM whether this can be RPed through, or if your character is for all intents and purposes “dead”.

>>6392846
Sorry, somehow skipped that.

>>6392764
I believe he was referring to the state of the most advanced purely mortal technology possible in Hell, not to the time period of recent arrivals.

>>6392876
What he said.

>>6392771
We don't know what is going on with Heaven. Maybe angels haven't heard any word from God for over a thousand years, and are frightened of the subversion of divine order that mortals have wrought in Hell. Maybe some of the angels think that God is dead, or missing, or mad, or trapped by the higher angels. Maybe God is like an emperor sequestered in a forbidden city, kept ignorant or distracted from the world outside by his inferiors, for either good reasons (God is insane, tyrannical, or Cthulhu-esque) or bad reasons (like in His Dark Materials, where Metatron had essentially deposed a frail and weakened God to rule Heaven with an iron fist).

Maybe something else is going wrong in Heaven--earlier posters suggested that very few or no people are getting into Heaven (perhaps the some vital but obscure commandment was lost to human theology, or the Reformation or some other major religious event caused a theological Catch-22 making it impossible to get into Heaven).

>>6392908
Interesting, but does it truly matter? I figure whatever anyone has to say on the matter of heaven and God is as valid as anything else. You are trapped in Hell, and it is your only concern.

>>6392755

I dunno, maybe just keep magic out? Aside from demonology I suppose.

>>6392908
Well if you count both testaments, it's probably the fact that most of the last few hundred years have been sinning and eating shellfish.

RE: Hellspawn


Jesus cock-juggling christ do you not think that the denizens of hell are fucking CONSTANTLY?

I'm not picturing an ocean containing misshapen children. I'm picturing AN OCEAN *OF* MISSHAPEN CHILDREN.

>>6392908
The Biblical God is both Omniscient and Omnipotent. The Last Angel to truly challenge him (Lucifer.) Had his ass handed to him. The Higher Orders of Angels are 100% Dedicated to the Glory of God. Any angel that had doubts or any rebellion would have been one of the Fallen.

Now the Lower Third Sphere Angels MIGHT be worried at what they think is a dramatic shift in the Lower Planes. But they'd trust God knows what he's doing/planning.

>>6392952
The Foetus Seaway is full of those who died and went to Hell. The misshapen Hellspawn are those that were sired in Hell.

Hey, any ideas on what event would spark the Rebellion? Personally, I'd go with when the Enlightenment philosophers first started entering Hell--maybe the revolution in Hell mirrored the democratic revolutions that were occurring on Earth at about the same time.

Man, imagine the fun Robespierre would've had in beheading demons, the ultimate aristocrats. Or imagine George Washington teaching asymmetrical warfare techniques to Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan.

>>6392952
Yes. It is awesome.

>>6392989
Of course the biblical god is all that. The bible is God-breathed. Doesn't mean real God is what he claims.

>>6393021
Indeed. Maybe his silence means this was all planned since before Creation, maybe not. Either way, everyone else is definitely taken aback at this development.

Let's list some must-have locations.

>>6393047
>>6393021
>>6392989
Too much ambiguity is irritating, but I think it works as regards God in this setting. I don't thing anything definite should be said about God and Heaven here. How the fuck would anyone in Hell know one way or the other? The stories are rampant. There is just as much evidence for any one interpretation as the next. But no one knows. We can only hope God (at the very least) will leave us alone, if not outright approve or have planned this rebellion.

>>6392989
But we don't really seem to be going off the Biblical God as much as we seem to be going off the Dante's Inferno/Paradise Lost type. Who is by far the most powerful dude around, but also not exactly "omniscient and omnipotent" (otherwise, how would the angels have even rebelled in the first place?)

>>6393021

As I said before, I rather like the idea of God being omnipotent and omniscient, but also set apart from reality. He knows what's going on, and it's all a part of some gratuitously complex scheme. Again, though, all this discussion on the nature of God is largely irrelevant to the campaign itself, and should probably remain a mystery.

>>6393104
Well, that's the idea, we are setting up the kind of theories that Hellions would have about what's going on in Heaven. Also, you know that if any group actually played in this setting for a long, epic campaign, they WOULD eventually be going to Heaven to cap off the campaign.

There's also the possibility of some information leaking in from Heaven. Maybe a scouting angel is captured and interrogated. Hell, maybe a modern angel FALLS... and doesn't even know why. Maybe the revolution in hell has enticed a fresh crop of rebellion among Heaven's angels, and some have come down to Hell to join the mortals.

>>6391080

Hell IS mostly filled with people from the future. Where do you think all this helltech is coming from?

In 2012 Earth-time hell will overflow onto earth, and the great architects of the future will wed demonic technology with human technology. These architects will then die and be randomly placed in Hell's timeline, where they will form the basis of helltech, which will later be fused with human tech again, forming a recursive synthesis of ideas between hell and earth.

Until you get godamn flintlocks shooting flaming knucklebones.

>>6392989
>>6393104
>>6393108
>>6393113
The fact is that most/all of the angels seem to be investigating what is going on, since the rebellion in hell wasn't actually supposed to ever occur as far as they knew.

It's more fun if it's up in the air and it seems like both sides are confused.

>>6393021
Problem is God hasnt been Silent (See the The Prophets,Most of Genesis and Exodus. As well the New Testament.) Also God has been shown to be Omnipotent. (Creating the Universe,Physical and Metaphysical laws and all life in Seven Days.Various Miracles) We also see his Omniscience described throughout the Bible. Since this is based on Bible it'd be safe to assume God keeps his high tier feats. In Dante's Divine Comedy he actually came face to "face" with God.

>>6393108
Becuase while God knew of the rebellion. But saw that for everything else to follow as it should had to watch it unfold.

>>6392908
> His Dark Materials
fuck year.
The last book makes me cry like a little bitch...

>>6393162
> Problem is God hasnt been Silent (See the The Prophets,Most of Genesis and Exodus. As well the New Testament.)
Has been silent since, right?

> Also God has been shown to be Omnipotent. (Creating the Universe,Physical and Metaphysical laws and all life in Seven Days.Various Miracles) We also see his Omniscience described throughout the Bible.
That doesn't seem to be a complete list of all feats that one might attempt.

> Since this is based on Bible it'd be safe to assume God keeps his high tier feats.
I think it's based on the mythology in general. Doesn't mean that God's big 'ol book of bragging is gospel (except the portions that literally are gospels).

>>6390858
>>6390933
I wholeheartedly agree with these two gents, and the accompanying picture relays my reaction to the OP

God just really shouldn't be involved. He should be as unknowable as he is on Earth. Maybe he acts through the angels, maybe he keeps a hand in, maybe he permeates everything, maybe he doesn't interfere at all. No one knows.

>>6393073
Check Wikipedia's article on Dante's Inferno and then just make shit up as you go along. So long as it's grotesque and hellish you're on the right track.

>>6393264
I say OP should use Dante Version and Bible version of God.

Dante comes face-to-face with God Himself, and is granted understanding of the Divine and of human nature. His vision is improved beyond that of human comprehension. God appears as three equally large circles within each other representing the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit with the essence of each part of God, separate yet one. The book ends with Dante trying to understand how the circles fit together, how the Son is separate yet one with the Father but as Dante put it "that was not a flight for my wings" and the vision of God becomes equally inimitable and inexplicable that no word or intellectual exercise can come close to explaining what he saw. Dante's soul, through God's absolute love, experiences a unification with itself and all things, "but already my desire and my will were being turned like a wheel, all at one speed, by the Love which moves the sun and the other stars."

>>6393159

What are the hell are you talking about? That was never part of the setting. See: >>6391784

>>6393003
>Hey, any ideas on what event would spark the Rebellion?
They day the scientists of the first circle surveyed the population and discovered a strange coincidence: there were, contrary to all expectations, no Christian homosexuals in hell. Suddenly, the fact that Jesus traveled with a group of close male companions and never married was cast into a new light, and various problems with earlier translations of the Bible were discovered.

>>6393159

No, that a response to people trying to rationalize people from the far future into the setting. If the world ends 2012, then the setting is viable. if the world ends much later than that, then the setting is overpopulated with space men and whatnot.

>>6393371
Eh. I'd think it better to put it more as a critical mass of damned souls than any kind theological awakening. Fuck the politics. They can be part of any game the GM wants to run. The when is simply a numbers game - at least as recounted by the souls by who were there and are credible (read: not many credible).

Futuristic spacemen don't matter, since they won't have access to any of the technology that would have made them any more of a threat than any other man in Hell.

>>6393362
1.) What was never part of the setting?
2.) Why the hell wasn't it?

Seriously, I don't know what specifically you're objecting to, nevermind the fact that saying "that wasn't part of the setting" in a setting brainstorm thread is retarded.
Of course it wasn't. I just came up with it.

>>6393440
This. Push the timeline as far as you want. However, Infernopunk has only gone as far as possible. Major Wars make it more advanced (you want to imagine WW3? Then we have Nuke launching rocket launchers.) so we're at BEST WW2.

>>6393389

That's what I'm saying. The future you're imagining doesn't happen because hell floods earth.

There will never be any spacemen in Earth's future.

There will be demon-grafted vikings and clockwork axes in Earth's future.

Hell IS overpopulated with future-people, the PC's just don't realize it at first.

So, if I might summarize to make sure that I properly understand it... there came a point in time where the number of damned human souls in Hell vastly outnumbered the demonic denizens, and so a war was waged in which the human souls ousted the demons from the upper layers and created there a dominion of man?

>>6393493

Oh, snap.

>>6393448

Because Revlid said it didn't. Since he is the progenitor of the thread, I feel his opinion is more important. I also think that having people from the future pop up in hell kind of ruins the setting.

I sort of understand your point, but is a bit convoluted. Rather than Hell overflowing Earth, just have everyone on Earth die by 2012. Otherwise, you end up with Hell being Earth and then there's no difference between Hell and the physical universe.

>>6393526

Which of course leads to "why does magic work in the physical universe."

>>6393526 Rather than Hell overflowing Earth, just have everyone on Earth die by 2012. Otherwise, you end up with Hell being Earth and then there's no difference between Hell and the physical universe.

Just forget all that business. You're in Hell; why would you possibly know why there are no future souls? They could all be in Heaven, or in some supplementary Hell that punishes sins not yet invented at the time of your death, for all you know.

Why don't we just make this simple? Hell exists slightly parallel to mortal reckoning. Hell is NOW. Only shit that we have created NOW is present in hell right now, but only in tiny quantities. Isn't that easier? Indeed, it makes the scholars at the gates that we've mentioned all the more imporant. Maybe 2012 is just as significant as 1843 and 1850 and 1912 and 1923 and 1945 and 1980 and 1985 and 2000 and so on and so on and so on.

>>6393526

He said what didn't? Said what didn't what? I still don't know what you're talking about.

He posted two possible explanations for why hell doesn't contain cyborgs and spacemen. I posted a third.

I don't think it would have matter if I HAD contradicted OP (though maybe I should have started my post with "What if..."), but I still don't see where/how I did.

>>6393569

We're not thinking like players, we're thinking like DMs.

If I were a player dreaming up a character for Revlid's game, rather than a DM thinking about stealing some of this shit, I might approach the topic differently.

>>6393544

Why wouldn't it? Guns work in hell don't they?

>>6393606
I'm thinking like DMs too. I'm thinking that certain things are neither here nor there unless you plan to have your players leave Hell.

>>6393627
WWI era is as far as they go. There's no petrolium etc.

I still think setting it in the now is the best choice. Sure, you no longer have weird temporal paradoxes with Hell-time and real-time, but does the setting suffer for it? I don't think so. In fact, I would venture that setting it in the now is better flavor wise and theme wise and it would also avoid these arguments about future Earth in Hell.

>>6393159
Ehhh it would be kind of silly. How would the entire planet find a place in a world where there are rivers of blood and magma, fetal seas and nine different wildly different Circles of Hell leading to Satan?

>>6393727
>>6393706
>>6393675

My knee-jerk response, I'll admit, is that you are all being insufferably unimaginative.

Maybe I'm losing sight of what the setting is 'about' to you, though. After all, highly-metaphysical worlds don't -have- to be about big-reveals and cosmic mindfucks. If you just want to play a cannibal pirate with a napalm-oozing clawmace hunting down demon barons, that's totally awesome.

Carry on; I'll just stick my time-loop-demon-tech shit in a doc and work on it on my own time. You're right, this doesn't need to touch on the mortal world at any point to be a cool setting.

I am a Gallic warrior who perished in Vercingetorix's last stand against Julius Caesar.
I had a wife and children, who I can only hope found their way to Heaven after I died, because I've not seen them in Hell.

>>6393823
I would argue that forcing what is essentially a fairly generic endgame scenario/twist on the whole thing is what's unimaginative. I don't profess to know what the OP had in mind, but to me, I see the atmosphere as uncertain excitement. For the first time in Creation since the Fall, predestination no longer seems certain.

>>6393823 My knee-jerk response, I'll admit, is that you are all being insufferably unimaginative.

Well you see, my opinion is that some things don't matter enough to imagine a lame explanation for. Sometimes a mystery is better. If you had some kind of cool reason for this it would be one thing, but it's like lame for lame's sake up in here. If I thought it was important I'd think about it myself, but it makes for a better setting if no one knows what is up.

>>6393885

And you think that an "it all fits together" scenario is antithetical to that?

Mutants and Masterminds is perfect for this concept.

>>6393823

In actuality, I am thinking the same of you. Maybe it's just because the "Hell overflowing the Earth" thing is starting to become a minor cliche. The time loop premise is interesting though.

What I want to know is: what is the government of this reformed Hell like? Throwing out a few alternatives to the earlier proposed ideas:

I would say it should vary by circle, with decreasing amounts of "civilization" and organization as one descends the layers of hell. The First Circle would be ruled by Philosopher-Kings--some sort of technocracy of the great scientists, philosophers, thinkers, and virtuous men who first began the rebellion. This would be the gentlest of the circles, a land of heavy development and urbanization where most of the population would choose to settle (if they can get in, that is). There may be attempts to remake the land to be more pleasant, and the greatest of history's artists and scientists would work together to make their interpretation of "heaven-lite" as best they can.

As one descends the circles, life becomes rougher, wilder, and more free--the technocrats give way to the populists and politicians and aristocrats who continue to pursue the politics and philosophies they held in life. Much of the lower levels would be parceled into sovereign city-states (perhaps federated under the aegis of the overall Rebellion). These would contain your cultural enclaves, the attempts to remake specific cities or empires.

The lowest levels would be the marches--ruled mostly by warlords or controlled by the advancing human armies, lands that are still being "tamed" by encroaching adventurers.

There's also the question of resources. Do the denizens of hell need things like food or water? I'm guessing no. But there would still be competition for land, mineral and fuel resources, technology, infernal artifacts, slave-trading, etc.

>>6394010

I'd say yes, they need food and water as that would make the setting more interesting. Maybe they don't need it to live, but they become extremely weak if they don't eat or drink for long periods of time.

>>6394010
I'd be willing to say that, in Hell, the only concrete currencies are labor and information.

>>6394019
No, no. Not weak. Just hungry. And thirsty. But not weak.

I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.

>>6394010

See here regarding food. >>6389918

>>6394052
DELICIOUS SOYLENT GREEN

There's food in Hell because starvation is a torture.

>>6394052

Hmm yeah, that's better. It adds another potential horror aspect to the game.

>>6394052
> No, no. Not weak. Just hungry. And thirsty. But not weak.
> I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.

Trapped in the scorching wasteland of the middle circles, with nothing edible or drinkable within a month's travel?

THAT WOULD BE HELL

>>6394085

I think he meant ravenous cannibals

>>6394099
I figure once you've been out in the wasteland so long, you're so hungry you're willing to choke down anything to make it stop. But all you can find are rocks. At least they only hurt when they move, right?

>>6394085
>>6394099
Both work.

>>6391451
In other words, every player is "the nameless one" and this is their personal planescape: torment. how cute.