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  • File : 1256027627.jpg-(1.9 MB, 1932x1579, Utsuho Reiuji.jpg)
    1.9 MB Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)04:33 No.6350652  
    This statblock for Utsuho Reiuji was initially created through the guidelines for NPCs on pages 187-188 of the Dungeon Master's Guide. Liberty was taken with her ability scores for the sake of symmetry and ease of calculations. Dragonborn was selected as her race, and the NPC sorcerer class template from page 132 of the DMG2 was used. The sorcerer powers selected for her were Blazing Starfall, Burning Spray, Thunder Breath, Poisonous Evasion, Spitfire Furnace, Dragon's Resolve, and Draconic Majesty. Dragon Magic was her Spell Source, and her Blazing Starfall was modified such that she would gain its rider nonetheless. Instead of gaining the ability to pierce fire damage, all of her powers were modified to deliver fire, necrotic, poison, and radiant damage, which I believed suited the theme of "nuclear fire of the sun" to a greater degree.

    The Legion of Avernus monster theme from pages 112-113 of the DMG2, the Demonic Acolyte functional template from page 178 of the DMG, and the guidelines for solo monsters from page 185 of the DMG and page 133 of the DMG2 were all applied to her. Between Dragon Magic, the Legion of Avernus, and Demonic Acolyte, she would gain four instances of resist 10, and these were appropriately assigned to fire, necrotic, poison, and radiant damage. With the help of Dragon Magic, Demonic Acolyte, and a Staff of Ruin +4, her damage bonus was built up tremendously high, which is only appropriate for a solo monster. Miscellaneous modifications, such as skill bonuses (she was given five trained skills and a +2 bonus to Arcana and Intimidate), Focused Movement (which replaces Second Wind so as not to prolong the battle with her), and adjusting the powers to flow more smoothly, were performed as I felt suited her.

    Level 17 was selected as her level as she is meant to pose a formidable challenge to a party of level 14 characters, reinforced by other monsters as any solo boss should be.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)04:42 No.6350707
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    I don't see what makes her a Leader subtype.

    >Int 9
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)04:43 No.6350711
    Oh god this shit again
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)04:47 No.6350742
    Kanako Yasaka vs Utsohu Reiuji. Who wins?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)04:50 No.6350759
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    >>6350707

    The Leader subtype is present simply because of her first aura, which grants her nearby allies her resistances, such that her compatriots such as Rin and Satori are slightly less charred and incinerated should they find themselves caught in her bursts and blasts.

    Utsuho ostensibly possesses certain debilitating syndromes which hamper her mental processes, especially her mnemonic capacities. However, she is learned in the field of nuclear physics as well as in the practical application of using such knowledge to operate a nuclear facility, hence her Arcana training and +2 bonus to Arcana.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)04:52 No.6350782
    >With the help of Dragon Magic, Demonic Acolyte, and a Staff of Ruin +4, her damage bonus was built up tremendously high, which is only appropriate for a solo monster.

    Son, I am disappoint.

    Check DMG185 again, then MM2. Then stop building NPCs as if they were PCs.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)04:55 No.6350804
    huhuhuhuhuhh she has a third leg
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)04:57 No.6350823
    Why do people always want to convert anime shit into DnD, there ARE Japanese DnD like games that let you do that much easier
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)04:59 No.6350835
    >>6350823
    Because D&D is the most popular ttRPG in the world, and is printed in at least 1 language in ever language group.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)05:04 No.6350869
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    >>6350782

    >Dragon Magic
    Page 132 of the Dungeon Master's Guide 2 shows that sorcerer NPCs and monsters with the sorcerer class template receive the Spell Source class feature, which offers a selection between Dragon Magic, Wild Magic, Cosmic Magic, and Storm Magic.

    >Demonic Acolyte
    Demonic Acolyte is a functional template from page 178 of the DMG, which was used to convert Utsuho the sorcerer NPC into an elite monster, prior to the process of being rendered a solo monster.

    >Staff of Ruin +4
    Page 188 of the DMG states that "You can give the NPC a magic item of a suitable level, but if he or she is an antagonist, count the item as part of the treasure for the adventure." She was thus gifted with a Staff of Ruin +4, which, with her magic threshold of +3, grants her a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls, along with a +4 item bonus on damage rolls.

    This statblock was generated through the rules for NPCs, not PCs.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)05:11 No.6350932
    >>6350804

    ... it's actually her right arm that she's melting the planet with in the OP's picture.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)05:15 No.6350966
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    >>6350759
    >Utsuho ostensibly possesses certain debilitating syndromes which hamper her mental processes, especially her mnemonic capacities.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)05:16 No.6350980
    >>6350932
    >melting the planet

    More like turning the floor into lava.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)05:18 No.6350995
    So, basically, anyone who tries to engage her in melee dies in 2 rounds, maybe one with good rolls by the DM. And there's other monsters too. Looks like you made an awesome grudge monster.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)05:30 No.6351065
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    >>6350995

    Solo monsters are intended to fill in for five standard monsters of the same level, and should therefore deliver a commensurate amount of damage roughly equivalent to what five equally-leveled standard monsters should inflict, if not more due to the fact that a single solo monster is significantly more easily disabled by dazing, stunning, dominating, immobilization, and attack penalties than a group of regular monsters.

    The new design philosophies for solo monsters encourage them to be savage and vicious damage dealers with only four times as many hit points as a standard monster of the same level. This is to ensure that solo monsters present a solid threat on the battlefield and such that battles involving such creatures do not drag out into monotonous slogfests. Compare the homebrew statblock for Utsuho to, say, an Elder White Dragon from page 85 of the Monster Manual, a creature of the same level (17) and group role (solo). The dragon has a tremendous 850 hit points, in stark contrast to the 456 of Utsuho, but possesses nowhere as much damage output to match up to five level 17 standard monsters, almost ensuring a prolonged confrontation wherein both the players and the DM shall be wallowing in ennui.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)05:46 No.6351160
    So does anyone know where I can download a cracked version of the Monster Builder?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)06:44 No.6351589
    >>6351065
    www.4shared.com/file/141155405/a2a241a9/adventuretoolsdownloader.html

    www.4shared.com/file/141158030/c8696e4/Adventure_Tools_update_Oct_2009.html
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)06:48 No.6351614
    >>6351589
    Thanks. I've been looking for these for a while.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)06:56 No.6351659
    Doesn't look complicated at all compared to 3.5 does it.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)07:01 No.6351695
    Horus
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)07:07 No.6351756
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    >>6351659

    The custom statblock presented here is admittedly quite a long one, especially in comparison to other solo monsters. However, I feel that existing solo creatures, especially those predating the release of the Monster Manual 2, are frequently far too elementary and lack enough options to pose a proper threat compared to five standard monsters of an equivalent level.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)07:08 No.6351771
    This is a pretty well put-together statblock. Also, I laughed harder than I should have at Hold Shift for Focused Movement.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)07:08 No.6351779
    >>6351756
    no, Cheeen!!!!!
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)07:14 No.6351811
    >>6351779
    >Rin
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)07:16 No.6351824
    >>6351811
    Rin is a nine tailed fox, that this a two tailed cat. Chen is Rin's cat, and she's two tailed.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)07:16 No.6351825
    >>6351824
    That would be RAN
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)07:23 No.6351860
    >>6350759
    >such that her compatriots such as Rin and Satori are slightly less charred and incinerated should they find themselves caught in her bursts and blasts.

    Those two need to be statted too.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:09 No.6352205
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    Chernobyl-tan seems like a real bitch to fight.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:28 No.6352352
    The only issue I have here is the At-Will immediate reaction on a miss.

    It's too strong when coupled with the Shift, so make it either one or the other.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:30 No.6352362
    The Auras are too much, especially if this is supposed to be a level 14 encounter.

    Actual level 17 Parties will probably rip the ever loving shit out of her, but I have a feeling this is far more than the equivalent of 5 monsters.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:33 No.6352372
    Free Action attacks, what? Fuck your shit
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:37 No.6352390
    >However, I feel that existing solo creatures, especially those predating the release of the Monster Manual 2, are frequently far too elementary and lack enough options to pose a proper threat compared to five standard monsters of an equivalent level.

    This is because you're supposed to be able to lock down Solos with appropriate tactics and some luck.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:38 No.6352394
    >>6352372
    A normal 5-monster encounter has 5 attacks per round minimum, plus a couple of minor actions.
    Orrin has 1 free (1/round), 1 standard, 1 minor and 1 reaction.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:39 No.6352404
    >>6352390
    ... Which is exactly why solos should be more deadly.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:40 No.6352405
    >>6352394
    Those five monsters are also much more easily dispatched and their attacks usually less potent.

    Free Action attacks are a bad idea.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:40 No.6352407
    >>6352404
    They were deadly enough as it was.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:44 No.6352441
    >>6352404
    No, they shouldn't. It's already something of a pain to align the party's actions just right to limit the Solo in such a way that we can bring him down (or just have the Orbizard do something). I don't need anything else throwing a monkey wrench in that.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:45 No.6352450
    >>6352405
    >>Those five monsters are also much more easily dispatched
    No, solos have less than 5x the HP of your average monster. They're also much more vulnerable to lockdown effects, effects that trigger on attacks as they make many as opposed to most NPCs that make one, although admittedly they're better against ongoing damage.

    It's just one extra, once per round attack. It's equivalent to having an extra minor action, which is something listed in the solo design guidelines (they even list giving them an extra standard action). It's not "Infinite number of attacks ahaha".
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:46 No.6352456
    >>6352450
    >Free Action
    >Equal to an Extra Minor Action

    HA HA
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:47 No.6352461
    >>6352407
    >They were deadly enough as it was.

    Encounters with dragons from the Monster Manual are always boring as shit because they're giant walls of hp who deal underwhelming damage.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:48 No.6352470
    >>6352461
    I'm sorry you feel that way. Solos are supposed to drain your resources, so of course they have high HP
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:49 No.6352475
    >>6352205
    Wouldn't be if you had some needles or lasers to use against her.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:50 No.6352482
    The reaction is bullshit when combined with the auras

    Solos are not supposed to deal oodles of damage because PCs are not HP machines.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:52 No.6352487
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    >>6352456
    1/round
    1/round
    1/round
    This is equivalent to having an extra minor action to use on that power, because you can only use it once.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:52 No.6352491
    >who deal underwhelming damage.

    You do know that player characters are not equipped to deal with overwhelming damage, right? That's why PC versus PC fights never work out right.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:54 No.6352500
    >>6352487
    Two when bloodied, to enable a Standard Action attack. No, it's fucked son.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:56 No.6352511
    Personally whenever I try to make a Solo NPC I always give them an ability that lets them make two at-will attacks for one standard action, (at-will but obviously not useable on itself :3)
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:57 No.6352513
    >>6352487
    The way it scales when bloodied, combined with keeping all her other actions, is a fuckton of damage that you really can't do anything about without Stunlocking her.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:58 No.6352519
    >>6352491
    You do know that it's not fun going up against an 850+ hp wall of meat that does piddly damage for 2 hours straight, right?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:59 No.6352524
    Loli Godness: The Curtain Shooter Game sucks and so does you Touhou fag.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)08:59 No.6352526
    >>6352519
    2 Hours? More like 20 minutes tops.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:02 No.6352538
    >>6352519

    Why is it taking you 2 hours? Massive slowpokes
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:02 No.6352540
    Great, Touhoufag, you made a monster that encourages Stunrape more.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:07 No.6352562
    >>6352540
    Daze/stunrape always happens with solos. That's why they need to be buffed up. More powerful solos don't encourage it more, it just counterbalances the daze/stunrape.

    Seriously, I've never seen a fight with a solo that doesn't involve the solo flailing around uselessly for the entire fight because of debuffs.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:10 No.6352576
    >>6352562
    It happens regardless. Now there's just an actual need for it.

    Oh, and it looks like Aura Killers now have an actual use.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:12 No.6352584
    Champion of Order lays the smackdown on this Solo pretty handily, and Orbizard as always.

    I don't think High Damage, Low HP is a good philosophy for solos, given that they're going to be instacrippled anyway
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:14 No.6352589
    >>6352584
    >Champion of Order lays the smackdown on this Solo pretty handily
    Certain Justice is easy to negate if you're DMing. Soldier monster whacks the solo, marks it, overtakes your mark. Sorry, there goes your Certain Justice.

    >Orbizard as always.
    +11 to saves when bloodied.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:15 No.6352598
    >>6352589
    Paladin MC Fighter

    Lasting thread -> Certain Justice

    Done
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:15 No.6352600
    >>6352584
    >I don't think High Damage, Low HP is a good philosophy for solos, given that they're going to be instacrippled anyway

    More like they'll actually get to do something for the short time they aren't crippled.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:15 No.6352603
    >>6352598
    >threat

    Durrr
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:16 No.6352608
    >+11 to saves when bloodied.

    I really don't think that's going to help much, all things considered.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:17 No.6352615
    >>6352598
    I've always wondered why nobody else ever does this. It's an awesome way to perma cripple without a save.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:19 No.6352625
    >>6352600
    Like..a turn? Maybe two? It seems it just makes the rape go faster--which is nice, but they only last about a half hour in my experience.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:28 No.6352667
    >>6352598
    Recipe for useless Solos.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:32 No.6352690
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    ITT:
    Wah, wah, solos have too much hit points. They should deal more damage.
    Wah, wah, solos do too much damage. Give them more hit points.

    You faggots are unpleasable.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:48 No.6352770
    >>6352690

    Obviously, the solution is to not have solos at all.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:49 No.6352778
    >>6352770

    Touhou, man, just one thing:

    A solo where is trademark abilitie - aka, that defines role - is for group protection? It's wrong design.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)09:53 No.6352795
    >>6352690
    Of course we're nerds. Make stuff with our inane whining and watch your company fail hard.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)10:02 No.6352865
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    >>6352584

    Champions of Order and Orb of Imposition wizards effortlessly disable solo monsters. This one is no exception. This remains an issue with the paragon path and the class feature in question, not with the design of solo creatures. I reinforce my stance, the one which Wizards of the Coast shares and has been gradually adhering to judging from the evolution of its solo monsters in various sourcebooks, that solo monsters be created with extreme damage output and relatively low hit points in mind. This not only prevents the "slogfest" effect present in encounters with solo monsters, but also increases their threat level to be approximately equivalent to five standard monsters of an equal level. After all, five standard monsters shall be felled in roughly the same amount of time that it takes to overcome a 4x hit point solo monster, but the group of enemies is far more difficult to shut down with conditions and attack penalties, rendering them considerably more effective than most solo monsters in practice.

    >>6352778

    "Leader" is by no means a role for solo monsters. It is a designation for any monster whose auras or powers include one which directly provides bonuses, free attacks, hit points, temporary hit points, or other such benefits to its allies. Even if only one aura or power of the monster happens to match this criterion, it is designated as a leader nevertheless. Have a look at the Angel of Authority from page 8 of the Monster Manual 2, or the Couatl Star Serpent from page 38 of the same supplement. These two monsters each possess only one power that directly benefits their allies, namely, Majestic Rally and Couatl Radiance, and yet they are declared leaders nonetheless.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)10:04 No.6352883
    >>6352865

    Oh, well. I would never pick Leader. But it has a precedent.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)10:05 No.6352889
    Very cool monster. I'd drop the damage on her immediate reaction and make Hell's Artificial Sun be something that is used *only* when she first becomes bloodied.

    As is, rather than it being a different fight when she's bloodied, it's just the same fight but harder, seeing as she recharges every ability she possesses but it's harder to lock her down for more than a turn, and everything she does gets bigger.

    Consider replacing Hell's Virulence (something which slows down the pace of the battle) with an attack which increases it. Say, a large close burst which produces an uncharitable amount of ongoing damage in addition to the initial damage, save ends, with the aftereffect of taking the damage one more time.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)10:08 No.6352908
    >>6352889

    Not altogether, mind, just when she's bloodied.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)10:12 No.6352932
    Could she also have a feature that allows her to always make free actions, regardless of whether or not she's stunned? Hitting bloodied causing her to shrug off all status defects at that moment in time as well?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)10:22 No.6352999
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    >>6352889

    >I'd drop the damage on her immediate reaction
    Would omitting the shifting before the immediate reaction work as well?

    >and make Hell's Artificial Sun be something that is used *only* when she first becomes bloodied.
    The actual attack, I believe, is not an issue, and I would like for the second aura to be present even while she is not bloodied.

    >Consider replacing Hell's Virulence (something which slows down the pace of the battle) with an attack which increases it. Say, a large close burst which produces an uncharitable amount of ongoing damage in addition to the initial damage, save ends, with the aftereffect of taking the damage one more time.
    Noted. I shall ponder over a suitable replacement.

    As an aside, do you believe that the attack penalty- and difficult terrain-generating zone should be replaced with another power, and/or that the Staff of Ruin +4 should be removed so as to tone down her damage rolls?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)10:46 No.6353130
    >>6352999
    >Would omitting the shifting before the immediate reaction work as well?

    For me it's a matter that she's already a holy terror to stand close to. That she can both deal an intense amount of damage and effectively vanish from close combat so easily is a bit of salting the wound. Given she's Artillery, the teleport's very important, but the close combat damage is a little high. As for the shift? I like that she has some choice of who to bomb.

    >The actual attack, I believe, is not an issue, and I would like for the second aura to be present even while she is not bloodied.

    For me it's that it feels like such a mild increase in danger when she becomes bloodied. As an alternative to making it only when she's bloodied, perhaps the bloodied version also causes the victim to grant combat advantage until the beginning of their next turn? Or a vulnerability (and that's a truly terrifying prospect).

    >As an aside, do you believe that the attack penalty- and difficult terrain-generating zone should be replaced with another power, and/or that the Staff of Ruin +4 should be removed so as to tone down her damage rolls?

    As to the first? As is it feels like a good, solid way to keep herself from being dogpiled, and to effectively force wasted movement on the parts of ranged party members. Losing either of the effects makes it harder for her to maintain control of that area around her. I like them together.

    I might lose the staff of ruin, but not before running a quick sim against a party similar to the one you intend to throw her against.

    As for her damage, she's got a neat effect going where (unlike *any* 4E creature or character I've seen) there's such a small variance between her max and min outputs. I suppose that would make it easy to count on the kind of damage she can do. Was that your intent going into this?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)10:53 No.6353166
    >>6352999
    I'd ditch the Staff of Ruin. Secondly the Auras and the shifting make close combat a bitch, and not in a good way.

    Artillery are supposed to run away from close combat, instead of using it to their advantage. Keep the shifting, lose some of the bite from the auras if you absolutely must have it.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)11:05 No.6353257
    I think my favourite part of this is that it's a frantic DPR fight. I think a lot of parties would be facing a TPK if they couldn't finish her by her fourth or fifth turn. Her greatest weakness, surprisingly, is range. She only has one ranged/area attack, and that only at 10 squares.
    >> MonkeyToho 10/20/09(Tue)11:16 No.6353355
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    rolled 12 = 12

    Well done, sir. I think I just found the basis for a Solo in the near future.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)11:33 No.6353475
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    Version 2. Her role was changed to brute due to the fact that her battle tactics essentially subsist on rushing the characters in close combat and obliterating them with her close blasts, repositioning as needed with her immediate reaction close burst. The Staff of Ruin +4 was removed to tone down her damage output, and also to prevent her from instantaneously detonating any character ill-fated enough to receive a critical hit from her. Her Thunder Breath encounter power was replaced with Chains of Fire, to provide her with another long-range option, enabling her to bail herself out of a dire exigency wherein, say, she is immobilized and finds herself with few enemies in range.

    Is this satisfactory so far?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)11:43 No.6353563
    >>6353475
    >also to prevent her from instantaneously detonating any character ill-fated enough to receive a critical hit from her.

    You say that like it's a bad thing.

    Regular monsters just deal max damage on a crit, and that's weak and anticlimactic.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)11:54 No.6353651
    >>6353563
    Hear, hear. The +29 static was a bit loony, but the crit dice made it an OH SHIT moment.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)12:07 No.6353765
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    >>6353651

    So you believe that the Staff of Ruin +4 should be appropriated back to her?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)12:36 No.6354112
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    >>6353475
    >Utsuho outfit

    WARNING: Does not come with Eye of Sauron.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)13:41 No.6354852
    >>6353765

    Or at least a similar effect, if not the actual item.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)14:20 No.6355254
    >>6354852
    Why do you want to make this solo even more overpowered?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)14:56 No.6355642
    Utsuho was always my favorite Touhou character, next to Marisa.

    This looks to be suitably powerful. Enough to give a normal group pause.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:05 No.6355751
    >>6350869
    >This statblock was generated through the rules for NPCs, not PCs.

    No, you moron. NPCs are created by the DM. The DM has the responsibility of removing or adjusting severely overpowered or underpowered elements, tempered only by the desires of the players and the needs of the story, NEVER by the mechanics. I repeat, the DM is NEVER CONSTRAINED BY MECHANICS. It is the results that matter, and not the method of creation by which you achieved them. You have a character with an at-will free action that conforms to the high limited damage expression for her level, and a quick look at the MM2 shows that this has not significantly changed. Your result is bad, and your creation is therefore bad, regardless of the method by which you achieved it. The method is important when creating PCs, as they are not responsible for game balance. Again, NPCs are not created under this mindset.

    You fail utterly and forever.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:08 No.6355778
    >>6355751
    This is a level 17 solo.
    HINT: Solo.
    HINT: Should substitute for 5 standards.
    HINT: Should not be shittier than 5 standards.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:09 No.6355802
    >>6353765
    No, jesus no
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:10 No.6355812
    >>6355778
    Open the MM2.

    Read the stat blocks for paragon solos.

    Realize your idiocy.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:10 No.6355820
    >>6353475
    Kill the Auras. Shit becomes roughly equal to Epic Level ongoing damage

    If you say this is designed for level 14s, they WILL NOT be able to handle this.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:12 No.6355842
    >such that battles involving such creatures do not drag out into monotonous slogfests.

    Don't play much 4e eh?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:13 No.6355857
         File1256065999.jpg-(325 KB, 467x815, agd.jpg)
    325 KB
    >>6355812
    Okay.

    Adult Gold Dragon. Has 150% as much hp as Utsuho, has a lot less damage, weakens the entire party half of its turns with its breath weapon.

    Gee, I dunno, it seems like it would take twice as long to fight the dragon, making it a boring solo.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:14 No.6355873
    Just fucking build it by using the outlines in the DMG, don't bother with this ridiculous template stacking.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:15 No.6355879
    >>6355820
    >Shit becomes roughly equal to Epic Level ongoing damage

    Seriously. Once she's bloodied, that's 21 damage at the beginning of each of your turns that you can't save against on top of whatever she pelts you with.

    Any defender (or melee striker) in your group is going to call you a dick, and rightly so.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:16 No.6355894
    >>6355857
    We leveled hit in about 15 minutes at level 15. I consider 15 minutes to be an acceptable encounter length.

    I don't know where the fuck you're getting boring from.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:26 No.6356011
    If we got together a group to playtest it we could figure out then if it needed critical TONE THE FUCK DOWN or if its just a really hard encounter to beat.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:28 No.6356035
    I hate you.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:29 No.6356048
    >>6350652
    Who the fuck is this mary sue school girl with demon powers or what not?

    Fuck I hate Japan.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:30 No.6356064
    >>6356048
    >mary sue

    Great, here we go again.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:31 No.6356079
    I do severely dislike you, all of you.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:32 No.6356086
    >>6356048
    In their defense, almost every single character in the setting is at or above her level of world-fucking power.

    But they're all little girls, because it's Japan.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:34 No.6356115
    >mary sue
    Instant trollan, just add /tg/
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:34 No.6356119
    >>6356086
    Right right, but Why in Whatthefuckistan do little girls have world fucking powers, and who decided this would be a good idea for anything ever.

    If they were penguins, or even velociraptors, then this would be the best shit ever. But it's not.

    It's little girls.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:35 No.6356139
    >>6356064
    Stop being such a mary sue.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:35 No.6356141
    >>6356115
    Greentext and implications sold separately.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:52 No.6356364
         File1256068340.jpg-(373 KB, 1920x1200, 1253861829406.jpg)
    373 KB
    >>6356048
    She's technically not demonic, or from hell. She's just from deeeeeeep down inside the earth, somewhere that might as well be the earth's core. Though, she and her buddy (pic related) tend to the underground remnants of hell.

    >>6356086
    >almost every single character in the setting is at or above her level of world-fucking power.

    Not true. In D&D terms, most characters would be at mid paragon.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:55 No.6356402
    >>6350652
    >Level 17 was selected as her level as she is meant to pose a formidable challenge to a party of level 14 characters

    >Hellcrow whose standard attack is to create miniature fucking SUNS
    >pose a formidable challenge to a party of level 14 characters

    Trying to stat touhoes at all is extraordinarily stupid, and statting them deliberately wrong? Double stupid.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)15:58 No.6356437
    >>6356402
    Miniature suns = fireballs, wow, how impressive.

    They're paragon.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:00 No.6356461
         File1256068832.jpg-(1.23 MB, 1000x750, utsuho1.jpg)
    1.23 MB
    It requires an angrier looking accompanying picture.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:02 No.6356474
         File1256068923.jpg-(555 KB, 704x900, utsuho2.jpg)
    555 KB
    Or maybe something more like this.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:02 No.6356485
         File1256068966.jpg-(376 KB, 800x807, 2279144.jpg)
    376 KB
    >>6356461
    Like this?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:02 No.6356488
    >>6356119
    They're not little girls. They're various creatures of myth and folklore, portrayed as little girls because lol japan/the series is a lighthearted take on myth so using lighthearted portrayals gets across the idea. Two-tailed demon cats appear as loli catgirls, upright turtle-men appear as girls with 'shell' backpacks, and hell ravens like Utsuho appear as girls with raven wings. Etc.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:07 No.6356563
         File1256069271.jpg-(239 KB, 850x694, utsuho3.jpg)
    239 KB
    >>6356485
    That totally works too. Makes her look more worth fighting.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:10 No.6356596
         File1256069418.png-(182 KB, 1185x830, utsuho4.png)
    182 KB
    >>6356563
    She's a goddamn nuclear Hell Crow, make her look a little more like it.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:10 No.6356606
         File1256069455.jpg-(127 KB, 800x800, 2757190.jpg)
    127 KB
    >>6356563
    That one looks fucking fantastic.

    I probably have a ton of good ones, but since they aren't tagged yet, looking for them it's more effort than I'm willing to put out.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:17 No.6356700
    >>6356488
    So... why aren't they drawn as what they are?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:19 No.6356722
    >>6356700
    because it's more amusing to have them as lol little girls
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:23 No.6356786
         File1256070236.png-(678 KB, 640x989, utsuho6.png)
    678 KB
    >>6356700
    >>6356722
    And the dude's original drawings for the game itself are just lol. So I just imagine them as looking more like this. All the fan-made stuff for the game is really way better than the original material.

    And here's a fan version of Utsuho's theme.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHUQ027xbEA&feature=related

    As opposed to
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE9XSVfl5KA&feature=related

    Granted, the creator's music isn't bad at all, just the fans really run with the shit.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:28 No.6356840
    >>6356437
    >Miniature suns = fireballs, wow, how impressive.
    >Black holes, what's the big deal, it's just a hole
    >Control over time and space, whatever
    >Neutronium golem, more like neutroLAMEium amirite
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:30 No.6356864
         File1256070621.png-(1.25 MB, 1550x1100, utsuho5.png)
    1.25 MB
    And one to grow on
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:33 No.6356904
    >>6356840
    No Touhou creates literal black holes. Control over time and space just means teleportation and free actions here and there, which is good, but far from godlike.

    Next you'll tell me that the level 1 boss who can manipulate disease can actually kill the world with super swine flu or something, when a simple "I can cast Contagion" qualifies as manipulating disease.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:33 No.6356906
    >>6356700
    Because it's a lighthearted world in which man and Things That Go Bump In The Night coexist? I mean, it wouldn't really sit right if you had for example actual Yagaratsu interacting with people when they're just an umbrella with a foot and a giant eye on it that scares people. Put the umbrella in the hands of a girl and now she can have cheerful conversations about how she's terrible at surprising people without people going 'wut'. Anthropomorphising things is hardly an 'out-there' convention.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:34 No.6356909
    >>6356864
    I'd grow on her if you know what I mean.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:37 No.6356948
    >>6356909
    You lost me.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:39 No.6356963
    >>6356906
    >Yatagarasu
    >they're just an umbrella with a foot and a giant eye on it that scares people
    Those are Karakasa, bro.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:42 No.6357003
         File1256071348.jpg-(376 KB, 1102x1600, 1235671762098.jpg)
    376 KB
    So when are you going to do this with, let's say...Tenshi?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:42 No.6357004
    NUCLEAR MOTHERFUCKING HELLCROW

    Seriously, that just sounds awesome.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:45 No.6357042
         File1256071536.jpg-(185 KB, 850x850, 1225003484304.jpg)
    185 KB
    >>6357004
    Utsuho "Hellcrow" Reiuji
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:48 No.6357068
    >>6357042
    Fuckin' A right man. And dat theme music. If you don't use ZUN's art, she's got the whole "legitimately threatening" package going on somethin' fierce. Not I CONTROL ICE or I'M FROM THE MOON or SOMETHING VAGUE ABOUT BORDERS.

    I will fucking NUKE YOU.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:52 No.6357113
    >>6357068
    There's Yuyuko "I KILL YOU JUST BY THINKING ABOUT IT" Saigyoji.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:52 No.6357115
         File1256071951.jpg-(493 KB, 566x800, 3497029.jpg)
    493 KB
    >>6357068
    She's not the only Armageddon-level Touhou.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:53 No.6357128
         File1256072004.jpg-(383 KB, 1802x1351, 1253843681315.jpg)
    383 KB
    Utsuho was a demon of the Hell of Blazing Fires. Legend says that she consumed the heart of the sun itself and gained power nigh unfathomable, whereupon she attempted to destroy the world of the living. Only a devout priest managed to seal her away in the world beneath.

    Legend also says that she will break free of her grave one day and consume the world in eternal hellfire.

    >>6357068
    "Sinners. All of you, sinners. Mankind is soaked with the blood of its own, the blood of all races, of every living thing on this tiny planet. You are all, every one of you, damned. And on the day of final reckoning, this world shall become a purgatory of flame for every blackened soul. By my hand shall it be so!"
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:55 No.6357152
    >>6357113
    >>6357115
    >>6357128
    This is what I fap to. Oh God.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:55 No.6357158
         File1256072140.jpg-(350 KB, 1600x1200, 1232032292861.jpg)
    350 KB
    >>6357113
    See, but Yuyuko is actually a nice person.

    The one you've really got to be afraid of is probably Mokou. Signs are good that she's hiding the phoenix inside her somewhere. Many millennia from now when she's sick of living, she might just torch the entire planet and start life all over again.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:59 No.6357186
         File1256072340.jpg-(447 KB, 1911x2200, 1249723695488.jpg)
    447 KB
    >>6357152
    Utsuho is a wonderful one to work with. She feels nothing but contempt for all known life and is literally a walking armageddon. Combine her desire to recreate hell itself with, say, Yuka's genocidal leanings and you've got a recipe for OH FUCK
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:59 No.6357189
    >>6357158
    Doesn't she lead people out of the youkai infested woods without saying much?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:59 No.6357199
         File1256072374.jpg-(1.03 MB, 1042x950, 6035063.jpg)
    1.03 MB
    >>6357158
    I think preventing that kind of scenario is part of what Keine is staying close to her for. But it's unlikely such a thing will come to pass, since she's a very kind person at heart - in contrast with a certain Lunarian bitch.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)16:59 No.6357201
    >>6357158
    Lookin' kinda orky there Mokou.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:00 No.6357206
    >>6357158
    This video makes reminds me how psycho she is.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ckMT_NN4Q&feature=related
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:03 No.6357246
         File1256072631.jpg-(272 KB, 700x840, 2565473.jpg)
    272 KB
    >>6357186
    >nothing but contempt for all known life
    Unyuu~?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:05 No.6357257
    Why does Utsuho have shitty Reflex? I thought she was a Touhou character.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:05 No.6357263
    >>6357186
    Moe~
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:06 No.6357273
         File1256072787.jpg-(104 KB, 608x781, 1215098640112.jpg)
    104 KB
    >>6357199
    Keine sort of worries me at times. What with being named after the Biblical figure who MURDERED HIS BROTHER.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:06 No.6357277
    >>6357257
    She's not playable. Bosses don't dodge. (Except for Aya.)
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:07 No.6357282
    >>6357257
    Because she's a ⑥
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:08 No.6357289
    >>6357273
    Transliteration has no silent "e." She's not Cain. She's Ke-i-ne.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:08 No.6357295
    >>6357257
    Because translation to D&D causes some differences and you wouldn't want a giant wall of HP that takes 15 minutes of your life to beat down would you?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:09 No.6357299
         File1256072971.jpg-(65 KB, 800x572, 1198088404024.jpg)
    65 KB
    >>6357277
    Aya doesn't NEED to dodge. She's the SR-71 of the Youkai world.

    >>6357289
    It was a bad joke and the similarity is still there.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:13 No.6357354
    So how strong would Flandre be?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:13 No.6357357
    >>6357113
    Yuyuko actually won't use her power. Most of the hax-level ones don't.

    At any rate, still liking this solo.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:13 No.6357358
         File1256073211.png-(615 KB, 700x1173, 6071413.png)
    615 KB
    >>6357273
    She's got Akyu, Mokou, and all the humans acting as her family, so it's unlikely she'd whip herself into permanent EX-Keine mode. Even if she did, Mokou would put her down since she would know regular Keine wouldn't want to live that way. I think the name reference connects to EX-Keine, who is very much a violent and power-hungry person.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:15 No.6357368
         File1256073306.jpg-(150 KB, 471x703, 1224826197913.jpg)
    150 KB
    >>6357299
    I didn't know that SR-71 spread their legs to anyone that passed by.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:16 No.6357388
         File1256073402.jpg-(133 KB, 1000x707, 614832.jpg)
    133 KB
    >>6357299
    >Aya [...] She's the SR-71
    Never have I found a more appropriate time for this image.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:17 No.6357397
    >>6357368
    Speak not of Aya in such a manner! She is a pure chaste maiden!
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:18 No.6357407
    >>6357388
    Oh dear, I thing I just sprung wood again...
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:20 No.6357424
         File1256073603.jpg-(76 KB, 850x531, 1241987445964.jpg)
    76 KB
    >>6357388
    Aya Syameimaru - Highest, Faster, Shutter Girl

    Also strangely reminds me of Huckebein.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:20 No.6357434
    >>6357388

    What is this I don't even
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:21 No.6357440
    >>6356786
    I agree with you, but the picture for

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPhQCQ5NVwg

    Is superior, and I like the song better.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:22 No.6357450
         File1256073748.jpg-(108 KB, 500x759, Aya Momiji Miko Sleeves.jpg)
    108 KB
    >>6357003

    Aya Shameimaru and Momiji Inubashiri are next on my list of characters to be crafted through the Monster Builder.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:23 No.6357462
    >>6357440
    I'm a fan of these two, personally.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NNKK8Jfwyg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST1hYssSn6A
    >> Shameimaru !AyAyayAyaE 10/20/09(Tue)17:25 No.6357494
         File1256073921.jpg-(1.09 MB, 1500x1061, 3589741.jpg)
    1.09 MB
    >>6357450
    >Aya Shameimaru and Momiji Inubashiri are next
    GJ
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:26 No.6357514
    >>6357494
    HUGEMOUTHISHUGE
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:27 No.6357524
    >>6357440
    >>6357462
    They are all pretty hot shit.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:28 No.6357542
    >>6357450
    >>6357494
    YESPLZ
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:28 No.6357546
    >>6357524
    >Utsuho's theme
    >pretty hot
    ಠ_ಠ
    >> Professor Farnsworth 10/20/09(Tue)17:30 No.6357564
    rolled 82 = 82

    So how bad would you rage if I put my party against it, recorded the fight and won?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:31 No.6357579
    >>6357546
    Utsuho just screams "heavy metal" bro.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST1hYssSn6A
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:31 No.6357583
    >>6357564
    If it's made with some wizards app for checks and balances it probably wouldn't do much.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:32 No.6357591
    >>6357564
    He didn't stat her up to be unkillable. Not sure what you're trying to do here.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:32 No.6357601
    >>6350652
    >Level 17 was selected as her level as she is meant to pose a formidable challenge to a party of level 14 characters, reinforced by other monsters as any solo boss should be.

    The aura will kill your party in 5 rounds or less. You're good at making characters, but this is a shitty Solo.

    You need to tone back the damage on those auras so melee characters can do their fucking jobs.

    Get it together, Touhoufag.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:34 No.6357623
    ... I just realized how little I like the original Touhou music and art.

    But fuck me sideways if it doesn't have one of the best fanbases of any series. Ever. They take the original and improve on it in every way possible.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:35 No.6357640
    >>6357601

    Correction, once bloodied sets in, this will kill even a full strength party in 5 rounds or less
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:35 No.6357645
    >>6357450
    >Aya Shameimaru
    FUCK YES \SHAMEIMARU/
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:36 No.6357660
    So I've been trying to figure out how exactly the Armageddon Desert because the Armageddon Desert in my homebrew, and now I know how it happened. I'll tweak Utsuho to be a level 20. The party's trial by fire into epic so to speak.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:38 No.6357676
    >>6357601

    This guys is right on, those auras are extremely powerful.
    >> Ixonoclast !tTBC.7oEaQ 10/20/09(Tue)17:38 No.6357687
    >>6357623
    Meh, Dorf Fortress beats the Touhou community in creativity and energy.

    They start with absolutely NOTHING in the form of graphics.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:39 No.6357694
         File1256074745.jpg-(295 KB, 735x785, 1198087257552.jpg)
    295 KB
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:40 No.6357719
    >>6357601
    I think that's the point, actually. The party tries to kill her off as fast as possible, before they die. Her HP is low enough to make it very possible.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:42 No.6357743
    >>6357719
    Once bloodied that's 21 Damage a round, and I doubt they have a reliable source of Resist All.

    Therefore, that's 21 Damage on top of whatever she whips them with, and she gets several attacks each turn, PLUS an extra attack if they miss her.

    This is retarded.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:44 No.6357768
    >>6357743
    Don't forget those attacks all have base damage in the 20s too, and most of them blasts or bursts
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:46 No.6357794
    >>6357719

    Unless you're packing some seriously optimized strikers you're not going to be able to drop her that fast.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:48 No.6357822
         File1256075327.jpg-(1.88 MB, 1932x1579, Utsuho Reiuji.jpg)
    1.88 MB
    Version 3. Removed the first aura and removed the additional attack from Impatient Eruptions while bloodied. I insist on using this image as it involves the floor being transmuted into lava, as well as the fact that it is one of the only Utsuho images in my collection with enough height to accommodate the size of this statblock.
    >> MonkeyToho 10/20/09(Tue)17:55 No.6357909
         File1256075705.jpg-(81 KB, 950x670, 006_007.jpg)
    81 KB
    rolled 74 = 74

    >>6357822

    HEY.

    YOU.

    I NEED YOU FOR A LITTLE BIT. I HAVE QUESTIONS.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:56 No.6357941
    >>6357768
    This.

    Let's take her at bloodied, and assume a level 14 Earth Warden with Toughness.

    He has 140 HP at maximum and, let's assume he's at maximum HP.

    He takes 21 damage at the beginning of his turn and should he miss on his attack (let's assume he does) he takes at least 25 damage. Then on her turn, she uses Hell Geyser twice as a free action dealing at least 25 damage each on a hit (very likely), and then can use another power. Since she's bloodied, she'll use Hell's Artificial Sun, dealing, again, at least 25 damage.

    Grand total of 121 damage, assuming minimum damage.

    This shit is bananas.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)17:59 No.6357971
    >>6357941

    Also the attack modifiers are insane too, +23 vs reflex? She's going to be auto hitting every single time
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:00 No.6357986
    >>6357941
    Let's put version 1 Utsuho vs Orcus.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:03 No.6358016
    >>6357986

    Eh, monsters aren't really made to fight eachother.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:03 No.6358024
         File1256076226.png-(76 KB, 406x575, Untitled.png)
    76 KB
    >>6357941
    This.

    Let's take five Sword Wraiths flanking for CA, and assume a level 14 Earth Warden with Toughness.

    He has 140 HP at maximum and, let's assume he's at maximum HP.

    He takes 2d8+3d6+7 damage from one Sword Wraith, and then 2d8+3d6+7 from each of the other four too.

    Grand total of 10d8+15d6+35 damage, average 132.5.

    This shit is bananas.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:06 No.6358061
    >>6358024
    >ignoring that the Solo listed will have minions on top of incredible base damage

    You're not making your case.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:08 No.6358077
    >>6358061
    >ignoring that the five Sword Wraiths make up the exact same amount of XP and can have just as many backup minions

    You're not making your case.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:08 No.6358078
    >>6358016
    But if they were put against one another, would Orcus win or lose?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:09 No.6358095
    >>6358024

    That is a shit-tastic analogy. Even if all five of them could somehow stay on the same Earth Warden, the fact that they only deal one damage type, have separate attacks, easily knocked aside and separated, and that players will have turns in-between their mayhem more likely than not renders them leagues less dangerous.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:10 No.6358105
    >>6358078
    In any solo monster vs solo monster fight, Orcus will win. You know why? Touch of Death. It's not meant to be used on other monsters at all, it's meant to hit PCs, it wrecks up other monsters, especially solos.

    Orcus even beats BAHAMUT (level 37 solo in the Draconomicon 2) because of Touch of Death, FFS.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:10 No.6358112
    >>6358061
    That's not his point, but he's failed to make the one he intended anyway.

    Where are the Warden's allies? Of course the warden dies, he's hopelessly outnumbered and overpowered. And for that matter, how can FIVE enemies ALL be flanking for combat advantage?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:11 No.6358120
    >>6358061
    You're also ignoring that those sword wraiths will effectively have four times her hit points (HOLY FUCKING SHIT), create spawn, and that adding helpers will raise the XP total. I'm not sure why you'd bring up minions, though, as minions exist only for the lulz
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:11 No.6358129
    >>6358077
    Those are normal monsters, it takes five of them on one guy with concentrated attacks. They have an easily and commonly resisted damage type, and they're radiant vulnerable, meaning that clerics, paladins, or anybody with a Radiant Weapon will ruin them in short order.

    Also because they're separate, lolinitiativeorder, is highly likely to make them less likely to act in sync, which is the only way you're going to even come close to what the solo does.

    You're a dumbass.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:12 No.6358140
    >>6358095
    >have separate attacks

    So does Reiuji.

    >that players will have turns in-between their mayhem more likely than not renders them leagues less dangerous.

    Delay, motherfucker, have you heard of it?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:12 No.6358145
    >>6358078

    Orcus' defenses would be too high for her to hit.

    Touch of death would also wreck her.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:13 No.6358146
    >>6358095

    And Solos can be locked down with a single Daze or Stun power, as opposed to those 5 wraiths.

    >>6358061

    Solos.... are not supposed to have minions. Why do you think they are called "solo" monsters? Don't be dumb.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:13 No.6358148
    >>6358140
    >Delay, motherfucker, have you heard of it?

    Delay is a shit tactic that gets monsters killed.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:14 No.6358160
    >>6358146
    >Solos.... are not supposed to have minions. Why do you think they are called "solo" monsters? Don't be dumb.
    >Fellowship of the Sun

    This monster is designed to work with other monsters.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:15 No.6358172
    >>6358140
    Delay plans are always, always interrupted. I'm surprised you even brought that up.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:16 No.6358192
    >>6358146
    Solos NEED minions, for just the reason you stated in your post. They get locked down and the fight turns into a boring slug fest.

    You don't throw a lvl 17 solo at a lvl 14 party and expect a good encounter. You send a lvl 13-15 and it's allies with an xp totaling at a lvl 17 encounter.

    FFS so many people don't understand this.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:16 No.6358193
    >Why do you think they are called "solo" monsters? Don't be dumb.

    NO U. They're solo because they can be used as a solo encounter, not that they necessarily will be. Orcus, for instance, is the creator of the vampire race, so he's not going to be found alone. Tiamat is the patron of chromatic dragons and she's definitely never going to be found alone. etc.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:17 No.6358196
    >>6358146
    >Solos.... are not supposed to have minions. Why do you think they are called "solo" monsters? Don't be dumb.

    Every single sample encounter with a solo monster from the MM or MM2 has it with backup monsters. See: Dragons, Orcus, etc.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:19 No.6358223
    >>6358192

    fair enough. I'm a bit tired.

    Think Utsuho would work better with her hellcat companion and mind-reading mistress as a level 20 encounter, maybe?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:20 No.6358236
    On the whole "big damage" vs "big health"

    If you COUNT on enemies being stunlocked after round two, what will happens to the groups that DON'T have a way of stunlocking?

    I'm fairly certain that a group who uses a druid as a controller does not have stun-lock, and not every fighter can cripple the monster forever.

    You mean that just because the group is not optimized to heck means they can't face solos?

    That kinda goes against what the whole "balance" thing means.
    >> wordfag. 10/20/09(Tue)18:25 No.6358303
    For all those talking about solo's I have this to say.

    >performed alone; not combined with other parts of equal importance; not concerted.
    >alone; without a companion or partner: a solo flight.

    In a word use sense a fight with just a solo is correct. A fight with one solo and a few minions is also correct as they are not equals. Only fuzzy part would be solos of different types as they could be considered equal, though they would be inferior or superior to each other in their own specialties.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:26 No.6358319
    >>6358223
    I know fuck all about touhou, but I guess that sounds good. You CAN have solo only fights, but the creature in question needs crazy mobility or terrain that heavily favors it.

    I could post an encounter I've prepared for my next session, if you like.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:28 No.6358336
    >>6358303
    I don't give a raspberry fuck about what the dictionary definition of solo is. I'm talking about fun and effective encounters.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:29 No.6358346
         File1256077772.png-(259 KB, 584x883, Utsuho Care Guide.png)
    259 KB
    >>6358192

    >You don't throw a lvl 17 solo at a lvl 14 party and expect a good encounter.

    Utsuho was intended to serve as part of an encounter level 18 confrontation.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:32 No.6358379
    >>6358346
    That's true. Says right in the OP.

    >Level 17 was selected as her level as she is meant to pose a formidable challenge to a party of level 14 characters, reinforced by other monsters as any solo boss should be

    I was replying to the post I quoted, not OP.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:34 No.6358398
    >>6358319
    Solo fights are guaranteed to be gay and boring as fuck. People have the mistaken impression that a party vs a solo is a boss fight, when its just a boring, inconsequential battle.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:35 No.6358414
    >>6358398
    Depends on the solo.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:43 No.6358511
    >Post Touhou statblock
    >Receive 200+ posts

    I'm doing this next time.
    >> Anonymuos 10/20/09(Tue)18:43 No.6358514
    What the hell are you guys doing when combat that lasts over 15 minutes gets boring?!
    Does your party and NPC just stand there and hit each other using every power they have? I thought combat was supposed to be dynamic and fun. Monsters (especially with high intelligence) should try to get the upper hand using the environment for their benefit. Sure, a group of enemies allows you to execute such tactics more easily, but I find that solo monsters at the party's level make formidable enemies.

    (Also I do hope that there are consequences for her having such int.)
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:47 No.6358566
    >>6358236 here

    OY don't ignore me! it's rude!
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:48 No.6358588
    >>6358511
    Actually, this whole thing has been a discussion about rules, so, this was actually a successful thread, in the sense that it was mostly /tg related and mostly free of trolls.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:50 No.6358621
    >>6358514
    You see using the environment causes more scales to be tipped in a monsters favor, if already powerful enough to pose a challenge you just entered possible TPK territory.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:57 No.6358704
    >>6358236
    Keep in mind that "controllers" don't have a specific function. A common mistake is that 4E players think that there's any reason at all that they should have 1 PC of each role.

    Controllers have no specific point to them, and defenders are only good if your DM isn't a douche; many DMs seem to think their job is to ensure that defender abilities never trigger. And half elf bards can do the job of being a striker.

    So definitely an all leader party would work just fine.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)18:58 No.6358715
    >>6358621
    Or, worse than a TPK, a fight that drags on a long time.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:01 No.6358756
    >>6358346
    Now I can't use her as an antagonist. God damn you are the best zeky ever
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:02 No.6358768
    >>6358704
    Exactly. I know that.

    Wich is all the more reason that you shouldn't assume all parties will have a way of stun-locking the monsters.

    If you design monster thinking that they will be stun-locked, like touhoufag did, you can guarantee they will tpk every time.

    I would never use touhoufag monster in any campaign. Unless you can stun-lock him, it just auto-kills the party in 5 rounds or less, which is ridiculous.

    I mean, not all wizards will be orbizards man.
    >> MonkeyToho 10/20/09(Tue)19:03 No.6358784
         File1256079815.jpg-(112 KB, 950x670, 010_011.jpg)
    112 KB
    rolled 98 = 98

    >>6358704

    They serve a valid function, at least in my experience. It just depends on HOW you play said controller (although that can be said for any class, really).

    Mostly they are about clearing groups of minions from the field, and slapping status effects as well as summoning monsters, zones, and walls. They 'control' by forcing the enemy to do what THEY want them to do, often by funneling them into kill-zones or blocking off their support.

    At least, that is their intent. You don't really NEED a controller in most groups, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:04 No.6358803
    >>6358768
    I don't see the problem. She demonstrably takes only 25% as much damage to take down as five sword wraiths. So if she's overpowered, she's still not as overpowered as official WotC monsters, ie. you have to use your best judgment in general
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:06 No.6358825
    >>6358803
    Pointing out a more overpowered monster does not make you less overpowered. It just shows us another overpowered monster.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:07 No.6358832
    >>6358825 here

    By "you" I meant "it".
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:11 No.6358870
    ITT people throw around the word overpowered.

    If five sword wraiths do on average the MINIMUM that a solo can do in one round when they ALL have CA and all simoultaneously attack the same target, that doesn't make them OP.

    They have 90 HP each which means they can be easily killed quickly.

    Touhoufags creature has as much hp as all of them put together, she also operates at extra efficiency when 3 of those sword wraiths would be dead.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:11 No.6358874
    >Mostly they are about clearing groups of minions from the field,

    A purely worthless effect. All characters can accomplish this just fine.

    >and slapping status effects as well as summoning monsters, zones, and walls

    I suppose they have a vague tendency towards certain kinds of effects, but those effects don't serve a specific point on the field of battle. They seem like just a striker variant.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:13 No.6358918
    >>6358825
    Okay smartass, five monsters of the same kind will generally rape in any situation unless they're A) retarded or B) the DM has a fetish for denying defender/avenger features. Check out Stormclaw Scorpions.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:14 No.6358931
    Touhoufag: Type 3 looks alot more reasonable, her AC is pretty high though so you may want to tune down the at-will on miss attack as it's an average of like 40 damage which is going to be a large portion of most characters hp.
    >> Anonymuos 10/20/09(Tue)19:16 No.6358956
    >>6358621
    Exactly, that's what I mean. When I'm DMing and the party encounters monsters of considerable intelligence, then those usually have to have a lower CR than the party's EL. If you use it frequently then players will also take abilities that aren't always important in a straight out fight but also matter when dealing with obstacles.

    I also take into account if the players know what they are facing. Depending on that they can make necessary preparations.

    My party loves fights that drag on. I don't mean drag on as in the NPCs miss and the players only miss, but rather that enemies try to escape and get to places where the PCs can't effectively chase them. It adds more depth to combat. (My players do play it quite slow - they managed to get 4 rooms into a dungeon in two 6-hour sessions.)
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:17 No.6358968
    >>6357299
    I was saying that Aya does dodge. 'Cause she does, while fighting her.

    >>6357687
    Wow, you're dumb. /tg/ has the smallest subset of the Touhou fandom I've seen anywhere.

    >>6358704
    It defines controllers in the damn book. Why would you even think that? Controllers deal with area attacks, mobility effects, and forced movement. Wizards get too many examples of this to list.

    Controllers deal in battlefield control, and are most effective with multiple enemies.
    >> MonkeyToho 10/20/09(Tue)19:21 No.6359001
         File1256080868.png-(704 KB, 800x800, 1254950624270.png)
    704 KB
    rolled 38 = 38

    >>6358874
    >A purely worthless effect. All characters can accomplish this just fine.

    Yes, but a controller can do this with usually just ONE attack. Most classes don't have burst/blast attacks for at-wills, barring the sorcerer.

    And minions can bring a hell of a lot of pain if you choose to ignore them.

    >I suppose they have a vague tendency towards certain kinds of effects, but those effects don't serve a specific point on the field of battle. They seem like just a striker variant.

    They don't play out like a Striker variant at all, which is the thing. Controllers have more status-afflicting abilities than any other class and often do them much better (such as afflicting whole groups at once). Zones offer great tactical flexibility, and walls can deny enemy support or offer a place for other PC's to push people into (the druid's wall of thorns, for example).

    I've had a few controllers in the games I run, and they continue to surprise me.

    [and Ads, you timed out ;_; ]
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:22 No.6359010
    >>6358968
    Except, again, "battlefield control" is what ALL ROLES EVER do. A better term for them is "miscellaneous" or "troubleshooter"
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:24 No.6359026
    >>6358236
    >If you COUNT on enemies being stunlocked after round two, what will happens to the groups that DON'T have a way of stunlocking?


    NOBODY ANSWERED ME YET. I'm gonna feel sad.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:25 No.6359038
    >>6358874
    >A purely worthless effect. All characters can accomplish this just fine.
    No, they can't. Most classes lack easy access to area burst spells, and even close blasts and bursts are limited. Wizards get two area-effect at-wills, and more area and zone damaging encounter and daily powers than any other class that comes to mind.

    >those effects don't serve a specific point on the field of battle. They seem like just a striker variant.
    No. Stun/daze/prone/slow/immobilize are controller effects--they deny action to the enemy. Strikers deal damage, they don't deny actions. If you can't tell what purpose this serves on the battlefield, you're terminally retarded.
    >> facepalm.jpg Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:26 No.6359053
    >>6359010
    >Except, again, "battlefield control" is what ALL ROLES EVER do.

    Wrong. Learn to read.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:27 No.6359059
    >>6359026
    TPK.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:29 No.6359077
    >>6359026
    They should probably either get a controller, or hope the DM realizes their deficiency and plans around it.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:34 No.6359142
    >>6359038

    Except stunlocking is a feature of a specific wizard build, not something that all or most controllers can do for more than a round at a time. And guess what? All classes have Fuck You (Save ends, aka ends in 1 round) effects for their dailies. Rogues, in particular, are going to be better at that aspect of "battlefield control" than non-orbizard wizards.

    I suppose the unifying mechanic of controllers is slow/daze 1 round at will attacks. Pretty gay though, somewhat decent if you have a horse archer party.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:38 No.6359196
    >>6359053
    Lets see. Warlords are made fun of for being able to throw people off cliffs, control is the whole point of a shaman's companion, clerics control the battlefield from consecrated ground to seal of binding, fighters are fucking obvious, especially polearm fighters, barbarians and avengers are obvious, rogues have more of an emphasis on control than wizards do...
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:38 No.6359199
    >>6359142
    Orbizards give penalties to the save. ALL wizards get the spells that orbizards use, like Legion's Hold. Can a rogue stun everyone within 100' in one action? Please show me that power. Show me that power on ANY non-controller class.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:39 No.6359210
    >>6359196
    Defenders are not controllers. RTFM.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:47 No.6359337
    >>6359210

    I know what the book says, that doesn't change the fact that controllers aren't any better at controlling than any of the other roles.

    >>6359199
    Show me that power on invokers, druids, or psions. Also, Legion's Hold is nice... for one fucking round.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:49 No.6359345
    >>6358870
    >They have 90 HP each which means they can be easily killed quickly.
    >insubstantial

    90 x 2 x 5 = 900 hit points total, plus regen 10. Good luck chopping through that.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:52 No.6359382
    >>6359345

    You completely missed the point, fuck you are stupid.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:54 No.6359413
    >>6359382
    You don't have a point other than "DURRHURR NO U." Actually, they also have fucking WEAKEN (save ends) at wills, so they have in effect 1800 hp.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)19:58 No.6359455
    >>6359413

    You make it sound like a party of PC's at level 14 isn't capable of dealing out enough damage to kill one of those a round, and fucking no weaken does not double their hp. it makes the PC's do half damage, if they hit with the effect, if the PC does not save.

    my level 12 dwarf fighter managed to do about 60 damage to 6 different creatures with a come and get it and thicket of blades combo last session I played so you can fuck off thinking they wouldn't get their shit torn up by a good group.
    >> Shas'o R'myr !!TZikiEEr0tg 10/20/09(Tue)19:59 No.6359459
    My copy of adventure tools I got from here keeps crashing.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)20:01 No.6359484
    >>6359413

    Oh yeah and vulnerable 10 radiant, clerics,paladins and invokers lol@ you.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)20:26 No.6359796
    >>6359413
    You DO realize that area attacks get to cause their damage on more then one guy right?

    That means that their hp is effectvly LOWER then you think, since quite a few classes have area attacks.

    Oh, 90hp? I guarantee that one of these will fall on the first fucking round, two if they are close to each other. Suddenly, they deal less damage!

    Oh, wait a minute, the solos damage does not decrease with their hp! ALSO, the solo deals all their damage at once, while the monster will each have different initiative, and quite possibly some of them won't be able to attack the same target as their brethren.

    Now do you see why people are complaining about OPs monster?
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)20:39 No.6359976
    >>6359796
    >You DO realize that area attacks get to cause their damage on more then one guy right?

    You do realize that solos are a lot easier to lock down with daze, stun, and shit like that?

    >Oh, 90hp? I guarantee that one of these will fall on the first fucking round, two if they are close to each other. Suddenly, they deal less damage!

    Oh wait, they have fucking insubstantial!

    >Oh, wait a minute, the solos damage does not decrease with their hp! ALSO, the solo deals all their damage at once, while the monster will each have different initiative, and quite possibly some of them won't be able to attack the same target as their brethren.

    Meanwhile, the monsters can delay their attacks and coordinate them all on one init count! This is no more vulnerable to the PCs interrupting everything than a solo is.
    >> Anonymous 10/20/09(Tue)20:42 No.6360009
    We've been throwing around hypothetical arguments here the entire thread.
    I would suggest /tg/ get its shit together and get shit done. Assemble a like-minded group, and test-run a few encounters and see how solo and rape-pack compare.



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