Crunch Time boyos.

We got fluff now make it work.

>>6333846

For the crunch, I'm thinking we should have a d6 base mechanic. To do a certain stunt with a certain gun, use the correct attribute and roll a d6, subtract from attribute, and you want to go low. Damage would be d6 + power, perhaps.

What were the attributes again? Power, Speed, Trick Shot, and... something. Accuracy?

I'd say keep it pretty rules-light, so as to allow for as much variety in gun-types as possible.

Maybe make everything percentile rolls, so as to aid in weapons which skew probability? Or, alternatively, something quick and deadly, maybe even something using playing cards?

Bumping to get people in this.

/r/ing a real light system. Something too statfaggy will make it obnoxious to try and balance the Cards.

I think some kind of d6-based system?
Makes managing the gun stats easier.
Based on Power, Precision, Speed, and Trickshot?

Wild Cards advanced 3rd thread?
Hurr trying too hard to make an obscure joke.

Anyways cool stuff guys, stop having awesome ideas, I need to work and sleep you know.

Crunch:

With "Accurate" weapons, you have to target specific body parts if you're within certain range (which would differ for each gun, usually based on type).

A shotgun would aim at a person, but a long barreled revolver would aim between the person's eyes.

>>6333877

That doesn't factor in the character, though. Perhaps the character's class could give him a boost to one of the gun's attributes, combat-wise?

And to close tonite - the M1897 Winchester shotgun. Designed by John Moses Browning as an update to the M1893 shotgun, this gun would be what I choose for the Ace of Clubs. Unending destruction.

And with that, off to bed.

Do we want to use roll-over or roll-under? Do we want to use a single die type for resolutions, like d20 etc, or do we want to have various die categories involved like in Savage Worlds? To avoid shitfests; if you hate the way we are doing it, do it yourself and stay out of the way of a decided majority, especially don't start bitching about decisions that were made hours/threads before. Hell, I'm probably going to run this as a game with Savage Worlds or something long before we have an operable custom system anyways.

Tl;dr don't make the crunch-making a tedious task that nobody wants to put up with please.


I think we should do something with an actual deck, maybe in chargen have the DM spread out a deck and the players pick their Cards? An option, at least.

As for resolution mechanics, I want the cards to continue playing a roll, although dice should remain preeminent.

Someone could just use GURPS or Savage Worlds for this, though, right?

It doesn't seem like it would be too hard to use as a setting for systems like those.

>>6333877
Four attributes: Speed, Precision, Power and Trick.
1 to 6 in each, d6 roll under.
Combat is a series of stunts using one of the attributes. You win successes till a certain threshold and using weaker attributes wins more successes. And of course cooler stunts makes it easier.

You'll all hate me for saying this, but let's base the damage system off of...

F.A.T.A.L.

It's detailed and would allow for awesome duels ending in amputations and "realistic" deaths.

There is no Rules card. It's merely a rumor, like with all "lost _____" rumors.

Out of game, it's a wink to the rules card.

Okay, so I think I have something based on the suggested d6.

Alan, a Marksman, wields the Peacemaker (ace of diamonds) (stat block POW 1, SPD 3, TST 2, ACC 4). He takes a long-distance shot at a practice target, so he rolls a d6 and gets a 3. He adds his Marksman class bonus (+1) to Accuracy, and compares his accuracy to his dice roll. 5 is more than 3, so it hits.

The damage he deals is equal to his class' base damage die (d4 for marksman) plus the gun's power.

>>6333971
It requires a graphing calculator.

>>6333936

I really like this idea.

Draw your gun:)

For any given roll, you roll a number of d6 equal to your rating. 6 is always a success. 5 is usually a success - a success unless in impossible odds, or you're being an idiot. A 4 is a success if you've got serious motivation - the Cards are more than just metal, they actively help their Gunslingers to achieve their goals. The 4+ success is... finicky. It depends on the situation, the Gun, and the GM's fiat. Mostly, it's a cinematic thing.

>>6333971
You're right, I do in fact hate you.
But I think we should come up with a home brew system for this. It should be more cinematic than anything. These are the Guns of legend. You don't need rules to say you blew off someone's arm. It's just assumed.

>>6333901

No classes.

How about just a few simple stats for characters: endurance (for getting up after you get knocked down)
willpower (for staring down the barrel of a gun)
smarts (if you want talk him down instead of shooting him down)
Reflexes (for whipping out your Card).

And maybe a few more. Then the Cards themselves would have a template in which you'd purchace "effects" that would do different things, from increasing a stat (a gun that improves your reflexes) to having special abilities. Damage would also be an "effect", since you could have guns that don't even fire normal bullets (a gun that summons lightning, or which cripples instead of kills.)

>>6333985
Of course, I'd like to implement cards into this somehow. Maybe on a crit, whether success or fail, a card is drawn to find an effect? Possibly cards are drawn each shot to see if it is a crit or something based on whether it would normally be a success/fail? Extra effects?

I say classless as well.
Character traits could divide into Strength (not every fight uses a gun), Reflex (quick-draw, avoiding harmful stuff), Endurance (HP and stamina), Insight (reading people, etc.), and Perception (5 senses).
All d6 based.

Red Joker

Red Joker is a complete enigma inside the game world, closer to a legend than any real repeated story. In actuality, the Red Joker is something of a 'reset switch' for the Deck. It's power is simple. You become completely forgettable. You fade from the collective consciousness of humanity to the point where no one can really place what you looked like or were doing hours or even minutes after you passed by. You become a complete ghost to the world, saved from the continual power struggle that consumes other Gunslingers. Hell, Red looks after you to such a degree that most wielders die of old age or natural causes.

Of course, there is always an exception to the rule. It isn't exactly a power per-say, but whenever a 'slinger gets his or her hands on one too many Cards, Red always enters play regardless of the intention of the 'slinger. Red acts as a relief valve, a balance to prevent the deck from ever concentrating too heavily. To be one of these overzealous 'slingers, Red delivers an end like thunder from the heavens: from out of fucking nowhere and absolutely fatal.

>>6333936
Isn't there a way to use Craftwerk (or whatever the Cthulhutech system is called) using a deck of playing cards instead of dice? Something like that would be cool.

>>6334079
On that note, Unisystem also supports cards.

*cough* Aces and Eights System, anyone?

>>6334015
>>6334009

So something like Strength for good old fashioned brawls. Endurance for taking a lickin'. Sense for noticing what's going on around you and Reflex for getting out of it's way. Insight for dealing with people before things get ugly and Will for dealing with them when it does.

Aces, Jokers, and Faces NEED to have concrete rules. They are the most powerful weapons, and are not something you'll start with or find easily.

The Upper 18 are enemies and bosses. You DO NOT get one unless YOU kill the current owner.

Classless seems the best way. Make your character a lawgiver, criminal, or whatever through skills and RP.

Maybe something like the WHFRP critcharts for determining effects of shots, although that seems tedious for a game intended to be quick.

We could make up a way of determining hit locations much quicker?

Everyone seems set on using a d6 system.

>>6334097
THE SYSTEM IS NOW ACES & EIGHTS WITH CUSTOM GUNS
CRUNCH PROBLEM SOLVED

>>6334112
The Jokers are really more deus-ex-machina. They're best left to the GM as ways to curtail reckless players or to challenge experienced ones.

Anything special planned for One-eyed jacks or Suicide kings?

>>6334133
Yeah the Jokers are more part of the fluff than anything. We can't have the Cards completely figured out after all.

>>6334112
This. Players are going to start with low number Cards if they have a Card at all. Seeing a low face card would be terrifying. Seeing the Black Joker would be death.

>>6334145
The previous thread had writefaggotry for the Suicide King. Nothing for one-eyed jacks yet.

I can't help but feel I might have inspired this with my thread yesterday concerning Weird West fantasy being nowhere near as popular as Medieval fantasy.

Even if that's not the case, I am still very, very proud of you /tg/.

>>6334145

Suicide King was fluffed out in an earlier thread, perhaps even the first.

archive time?

>>6334181

Not till I see some basic charts for stats and such...

The deuces. As the lowest of the Cards, these are among the first to disappear in a slinger's stash, never to taste blood so long as he lives. Whether or not there's a difference between a deuce or a three or a whatever is something everyone has an opinion on and no one but the dealer knows, but I do know one thing: the deuces are full of hate. Being so low-regarded has made them that way.

You take care if you find a deuce, son, because if it doesn't like you, you'll surely know.

>>6334112
This. Numbers are all rather even in power, but the "Aces & Faces" are a step up, and the two Jokers... well, they're in a league of their own.

Did anyone bother reading the previous threads?

A slinger does not gather a stash of cards. He's damn lucky to get one.

There is no gradation in power with number cards, although the number cards are less powerful (generally) than face cards, which are less powerful than aces, which are less powerful than Jokers.

Starting with a Card is like starting as, say, a Dragon-Blooded in Exalted. Starting with a good Shooting Iron is like starting as a God-Blooded. And starting with a Slugthrower is like being a normal mortal.

(Large Image, Screenshot, Rep'd due to autosage)

Why is no one doing this?! Make a table of the guns! I'll work on it, but I need ideas.

Correct me if I fuck anything up.

FYI, This is unfinished, and a lot of bullshit, I'm going by someone elses Idea:

>How about the idea that the guns have similar but not identical powers depending on who wields them. Say the 7 of diamonds "The Fox" has powers, of say, duplication. But for one Gunman it duplicates the gun itself (temporarily) so he just pulls as many copies as he needs out of his clothes. But for another Gunman it duplicates himself. For yet another it duplicates the bullets mid flight. All the powers work differently and grow stronger along with its owner as he becomes more used to the Gun but at the expense that he and the gun's 'personalities' merge.

Some crunch for the Cards. It's rough till we work out the specifics.

Nine of Clubs "The Earth's Cry"

Speed 2
Precision 1
Power 4
Trick 2

Power (Which I think we should refer to as Brand): The Nine of Clubs has control over the earth. It can soften the ground beneath an enemy's feet or send clouds of dust into his eyes.

Tell?: The user is always covers in dust, looking like they've traveled across a desert.

And as far as the power's go, they should leave some toll on the user. Maybe a compulsion of even physical damage depending on how much power was used.

How about this:

There exist in the world 54 Guns of unparalleled power. They are of archaic and mystical design with magical powers. Only an excess of skill AND luck can hope to match them in combat.

Then came Scientists.

At first they contented themselves with transportation and agriculture, as well as some construction. Then they began to take the Guns seriously, rather than mere myths and legends.

They were hired by the governments of the city-states to create weapons, usually monstrously powerful machines, to keep law an order, even against such terrible foes as the Gunslingers, who were a law unto themselves.

Eventually their creations (steampunk + gas lamp fantasy robots and such) became powerful enough to rival the Guns.

Players could choose to be Gunslingers or Sparks (yes, I did steal this from Girl Genius), if only to give some diversity.

So are we going to call PCs "Slingers"? Because I kinda like that. Sort of catchy, and also descriptive.

THE CITY STATES
The City States of America are all more or less the same. They're all walled, heavily industrial cities that hold rule over an area around them. Area unowned by the City States is tribal land or free land, with the notable exception of the Sioux City State.

There is no Mexico as a nation, although there is a Mexico City State. There WAS a Canada, but it fell in the War of 1812. Overseas... well, overseas doesn't matter much.

>>6334236

Eh, I'd say we just keep it that the player characters are typically Card-bearers. It keeps things simple.

A Number Card-bearer can take down a gang of ruffians, or one other Number. A Face Card could take down an army platoon, a Hand of Numbers, or another Face card. An Ace could take out an entire Fort, or a Hand of Faces.

And the Jokers? Well... they're wild cards for a reason.

>>6334275
I like the idea but I think that's for another thread. One step at a time here.

>>6334280
Gunslinger seems the accepted terminology at this point.

The man could not have been more than thirty, yet he had a look of world weariness more appropriate for someone twice his age. He reached into his holster, and pulled it out: a small revolver, silver barreled and black-handled. It seemed unexceptional, until I noticed the Brand, a small heart with a crown over it, on the bottom of the black handle. Suddenly, I knew exactly what I was looking at.

The man looked me in the eye, and spoke, his voice just as world-weary as his gaze. "Yes, this is what you think it is. The Suicide King, King of Hearts. The King always finds his subjects, the bullets go straight to the heart without error. But each shot carries with it more than force and death. Every shot it makes the world seem more barren and hopeless to me. The sky is darker, colors are duller, people become far greater shit in my eyes. Each shot makes existence seem more bleak and pointless, and makes me crave release. That's how it got it's name, boy, it steals your will to live. I don't know how many more fights I've got in me, before I inevitably fall, and some fool claims the King for their own. But I will not be gunned down by a rival or an enemy. No, when it has sapped my will completely, I will die by my own hand, and to me it will seem the sweetest moment of my life."

>>6334275
That... it just doesn't really seem to mesh with what we're doing here.

>>6334197
I don't like the idea of anyone holding more than on Card, maybe the Cards themselves act to prevent it, by engineering the death of anyone who tries to hoard them, and now slingers are paranoid about not staying 'loyal' to a gun.

Why exactly do all the wielders fight each other? Other than that ANY wielder is probably a wanted criminal for being a threat to the peace (after so many years of the government dealing with the slingers shooting up the West). Is there any outstanding reason that they fight, other than general mistrust? Fear of a 'stilted' Card left behind in favor of a supposedly better one getting revenge on a slinger would probably stop many from trying to work up to getting a Face or Ace.

Are they compelled to hunt each other? Is there something bigger going on with them? I apologize if this was covered elsewhere.

To stay on the topic of crunch: The player should have an Attunement to his Card, which represents how easy it is for him to control it, use it's supernatural powers, and recover from the shock of using those powers. This also helps to keep a slinger loyal to his Card.

All slingers, in fact all Cards, should be capable of the (four?) archetypal shots, the Trick, the Accurate, the Powerful, and the Fast. But a character who favors an archetype that isn't preferred by his Card would be penalized, since the Card should want to have an owner who represents its own ideals. This helps with supporting specialization and might make the guns a lot more flavorful.

You're gonna prolly hate me for throwing this in, but Houses of The Blooded uses a player storytelling mechanic that might be useful. It just takes for fucking ever in it's current form, so stealing a piece here or there might help.
Also, what about Burning Wheel? I always felt it would be useful for doing something like gunslinging duels.

I do like the idea of having a card mechanic though. Perhaps every player with a Gun takes that card out of the deck and keeps it with them during the game. The GM would have a seperate deck. Their Gun's card could be used once per session (or given back to them later, don't wanna think about that) to act as a wild card, allowing them an upper hand against pretty much anyone except for another Gunslinger and allowing the player of that Gunslinger the opportunity to drive the story, kinda like in Masterbook. Your average gunslinger or NPC goon wouldn't have access to these cards. The only things that could trump that is a better Gun being used by another player or GM enemy (GM characters who have Guns would also take out of the player's deck, letting them know that another Card is in play, and keeping the GM from using his own deck as Trump cards,) Or if the GM somehow gets lucky enough to have the player's card in his hand from his own deck. This would cancel out the wild card effect of the PC and force the card to play as a normal card. That acts as Fate taking a hand in the player's destiny. Since Aces are usually flipflopping between a high card and a low card, and Jokers always act as wild cards, it makes them extremely powerful in a poker hand.

Hope that helps, and if it does work, then I'll be sad because I shoul dbe selling these ideas instead of letting you people play with them...

>>6334275

That's too much. I like the idea of science from "back East" moving in on the lawless West, but lets not make them a whole another faction like that.

I prefer the "Smyth" thing back from the previous thread, meself. Less mad science, more Robber Barons.

>>6334314
Agreed.

Theoretically you could use a deck of cards as a substitute for a d10, just that it'd be weighted towards 10s.

If you wanted to get overly complicated, face cards could have certain effects, like the King of Hearts makes you fumble (with an awesome power).

>>6334280
Cards - The mystical Guns, capital G
'Slingers - Those who hold the Cards
Hand - A band of 'Slingers
The Dealer - A mysterious man who deals out the Cards when it is needed
Suits - 4 classes of the Cards that determine their proficiency

>>6334328
Approved. Someone archive this - I'm having site access problems for suptg.

>>6334161
>>6334177

Ah, time for me to hit up the archive then.

One thing that sorta bugs me, is most of the features are based on the gun as the attacker - can we get some defensive love in here?

Say, for example, a random bestowed ability of the numeric hearts cards being that, the holder takes no damage to any part of their body...save the heart. And the heart can take exactly as many shots as the card's number.

9 of hearts, the Stray Cat?

>>6334328

Depends on the wielder. Some gunslingers are intoxicated by the power of their own Card, and want more for themselves. Some just want to use the power for their own selfish ends. Some use them for vengeance, some for justice, and some just keep them as an ace-in-the-hole as they go about their lives, because god knows you need one in the lawless west.

>>6334352

So far that sounds perfect. A few other terms were flying around that might be used, Five-card Stud, House of Cards, and uhh...Dice maybe?

Moar Stats!
White Crow (Jack of Hearts)
6-Chambered Revolver
Power - 2
Speed - 5
Precision - 4
Tricks - 3

Brand: Always gets the first shot in a quickdraw unless against a gun with a higher Speed and Trickshot rating, or against an Ace or Joker.

Tell: The Slinger's hands are shaky when not holding a gun.
Drawback: No trickshots can be used in the first 2 rounds of combat. White Crow draws fast, but steady and precise.

>>6334333
Sounds kind of complicated, and if the GM ever wants to cock-block them they just give an NPC a better card than everyone else.

>>6334366
Not all of them should be defensive, but I like the idea of a few Cards protecting their wielders.

And 9 of Hearts/Stray Cat is perfect as an example.

>>6334367
Exactly. The Cards give people power and they use it to their own ends. And people with that kind of power tend to run into each other. Maybe they end up in a shoot out. Maybe they just have a few drinks and tell stories. The only difference from regular folks is that their shoot outs are the stuff of legends. And their stories are unbelievable.

>>6334399
Fair enough, and I was just kinda pulling it out of my ass at 2 am, but I don't see a problem with the idea of the GM pulling out a more powerful card. He has to follow the same rules as players regarding that card, so 1 use, and the GM has to decide if he wants something that powerful potentially falling into the hands of the players. I think someone could streamline it better than tired ol me...

>>6334433
It's a neat idea though.

And now you'll be haunted the rest of your life, trying to figure out an rpg system that can be played entirely with a deck or two of cards.

Uh,why don't you play a hand of poker to determine sucess in things.
Like high low for simple challenges,texas hold'em style for grand melees and so forth.
The deadlands ccg used it as a mechanic.

I don't like the numerical stats for the Cards thing. It doesn't give them any flavor— none of the ones posted so far could do the things they do in the fluff.

How about something like this (numerical values are X's since we don't have a dice scale and whatnot now):

The Bloody Queen (Queen of Hearts)
6-shot Revolver

Damage: XdX

Bloodthirsty: Once the Queen is drawn, it cannot be re-holstered until blood has been drawn from every living creature around when it is drawn, including its wielder.

Bathe in Blood: Wounds made by the Queen will not stop bleeding. Characters wounded by the Queen will take X-Endurance damage per round/minute until the wound is cleaned and bound and all remnants of the shot are removed.


The Crow (Four of Spades)
Lever-action Rifle

Damage: XdX

As the Crow Flies: The Crow is accurate from up to five miles away, and ignores all barriers in between it and its target. The gunslinger must have a clear target in mind before he fires, and a piece of his target's clothing or body.

>>6334481
That's pretty cool. How much relies on cards, and how much is dice or other things?

It feels alright to me to think that the Cards have their own agendas, and are even a primary driving force behind the movement in the game. It might only be a minor drive, like a weak need to kill a person every now and then(something that is easy enough to fulfill for even the law-abiding people of the West). On the other hand, they might give their wielder a compulsion to hunt down a specific individual, probably another slinger. This seems like it's taking choice out of the player's hands, and options away from the campaign-writing DM, though.

The Dealer would make an excellent quest-giver, for those DMs that want to involve him that... directly. Although that makes it seem like a giant explosive game of Nerf Assassins played out over the entire Western Territories. Which is great, but not for every group or DM.

There's the option of making slingers like D&D heroes; people who are decidedly special, their Cards acting like class levels in something other than Commoner. They are in control of everything, but the setting itself drives the motion. I mentioned earlier that over time all the gunfights would drive the Government to take action against slingers, outlawing those who hold Cards. Not that they are making any progress(the dealer wouldn't let them remove a Card from circulation). This is probably the most flexible method of driving the action.

>>6334487
Well the fluff is up to you. It's in how you describe it. Say you're wielding the Nine of Clubs. You want to use it's power over earth to blind your enemy. Roll Trick to blow up the dirt by his feet into his eyes. Maybe you describe it as firing a shot close to his feet and you can use it's Power stat as a bonus of some kind.

>>6334487
Hey! Name-stealer!
Crow was mine! Jack of Hearts!

>>6334491
If you think about it,
you could apply an arbitrary number too all of the face cards and just use a deck of cards as opposed to dice in all things.
The power of your weapon would determine your hand size or the fact that you can play draw poker to determine a hit as opposed to just making a good 5 card hand and so on so forth.

>>6334481
Blackjack. It's very simple, and different kinds of loss lead to different kinds of failures (going over vs. going under, etc).

>>6334561
But why bother with that, when you could just have a "control over earth" power on there, for which you would buy a success chance at Card creation?

>>6334562
Whoops, my bad. It was just for example purposes.

Someone mentioned the tarot cards that don't generally see use any more. What about "forgotten" Cards like the anon-mentioned Knights? Wasn't there a Pope card at one time?

>>6334577
Or something like that.
You could switch it up for every Card/have some cards determine the game played.

>>6334575
Or even more simply, shuffle the deck and flip over a card.

I think the mechanics for the effectiveness of powers should work like they do in One Piece. Some cards, faces and up, would be like Logia abilities (Crocodile, Smoker). They DO make the user incredibly powerful, but they still have weaknesses that can be exploited. Such as Crocodile's weakness to water or Eneru's inability to affect rubber.

Lower tier power, like Luffy's, are technically weaker, but with imagination and a shitton of training, they can be just as powerful, if not more powerful, than higher tier Guns (case in point: Luffy, he is waaaaay more powerful than he should be with such a worthless power).

Also, the skill of the Slingers themselves should play a large roll in their overall abilities. Sanji, Zorro, and even Ussop have defeated very powerful opponents through skill, cleverness, and dumb luck.

God-Tier Slingers, even if armed with non-Card guns,could also be insanely powerful (think Weasly Gibbson from the Wanted comic). Shanks, for example, has no Fruit powers at all (we know this because he can swim), but is still one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world.

Any thoughts?

>>6334602

And if one of your cards is the same as your Card, you could get some uber-critical effect perhaps.

>>6334577
I gurantee you that my resident munchkin will count cards.

>>6334601
The tarot deck did in fact have the knight (better than page [jack], lower than queen) in the suits of the minor arcana. The Pope/Hierophant/Whatever you wanna call it is a major arcana card.

Each player needs a deck of playing cards.

Each Card has a hand size and various other stats related to how the player interacts with their deck. Rules on when, how, and at what cost more cards can be drawn. Players use the cards in their hand instead of dice rolls to resolve conflicts.

Alternatively.. Each Card has some number of something akin to Fate Points, which are then free to be used to purchase various things; rerolls, adding the Cards' rating for the Archetype (Power, Acc, Speed, Trick) to a roll (pre or post roll? higher cost for post?), stuff like that. Shadowrun style basically. Replenishing the points is done by making the Card happy; doing things that it likes to do.

King of Diamonds - "Rich Man's Bane"

This revolver, resembling a Colt SAA, has a rather notable feature - the sights and cylinder, rather than made of steel like the rest of the weapon, are apparently made of gold.

While bullets can be loaded into the chambers like any other firearm, they will not be fired, not will the gun need reloading.

Instead, this Gun, for lack of a better term, eats money. For every shot, a small amount of the funds carried with a person vanishes, starting with highest value and working down. For example, a man with fifty dollars in his pocket and a man with fifty cents in his pocket will both get fifty shots. But a man with both fifty dollars and fifty cents in his pockets will fire one hundred times - fifty for each dollar and fifty for each cent.

Woe to the fool whose pockets are empty and tries to fire the Rich Man's Bane - for him, the gun is will not fire, for it has nothing to use for ammunition.

And no, hefty bank-accounts and IOU's don't count - only the "cold hard cash" on one's person feeds this golden-throated sidearm.

We're tarot cards going to be the same idea, but set much further back in time and with swords?

>>6334602
I could see that.

I like the idea of using Cards let you "bend" the rules, though. Like being able to draw more times/having a larger hand in draw poker, etc.

The Knights belong to four government lawmen that ride together and visit death on anyone that displeases the men back east.

Or so they say. No one's ever laid hands on a Knight, only told tales about them.

>>6334642
Weren't, rather*

The purpose of the Dealer in keeping the guns appart is cool. However, there should be special circumstances, Such as trying to get a "Hand".
Someone or someones with th 2,3,4,5, and 6 of diamonds for instance would actually gain abilities of a level similar to the face cards. However he would become hnted slowly by the Dealer.

>>6334642
I suppose you could do that, but I wouldn't want to stat 72 different swords.

>>6334598
A good idea but I figured since the Cards have such mythical powers, it'd be better to keep it more free form. Yeah, having the stats for it would be nice but it's also more constricted.

>>6334642
One idea at a time. This is cool enough that it shouldn't fly into a million sub-ideas at once.

The Queen of Diamonds is said to be a fickle gun. She only chooses men, and only single men. God help the man who casts lustful eyes on a woman while the Queen of Diamonds is his paramour.

There's a nasty rumor that the Queen herself is quite the adultress, flitting from man to man of her own taste. Better not say that to her beloved, though.

>>6334675

I think that way makes it MORE free-form, since you can come up with whatever powers for your Card that you want, rather than having to make them fit with a particular stat.

I mean, how do you fit things like that gun that gives you nine lives, or the Queen of Hearts? You have to have separate "attributes" and "drawbacks" for those, so why not just have those be the only properties guns have, rather than also giving them a set of stats?

>>6334666
God help you if you get a royal flush.

>>6334705
This. As the guy who originally posted the thing about Tarot-swords; we really should stick to what we are doing now. Splatbook contents can wait.

>>6334275

How about we keep semi-robots, but keep them in line with Clanks from Girl Genius, but have them under the control of the government.

We could even do a whole class system based on CHESS!

Think about it, Pawns would be the army and/or city police, Knights would be powerful cyborg sheriffs (or something), Queens would be ungodly powerful mechs on par with face Cards, and Kings would be mere patriarchs responsible for building/running/controlling them.

White pieces could be Lawful society, while Black would be... despotic tyrants? (okay, needs some work)

Chess v Poker, I love it!

do we even have set "power levels" for the cards?

what, exactly, can an Ace do?

why is that better than what the Faces can do?

and just how far above a skilled trick shooter is a 'Slinger with a nominal Card?

>>6334716
I think my Fate Point ideas might be useful here too. You could spend them to get effects and stuff, but other than that the gun doesn't really need much. It'd just count as a supermasterwork <whatever the gun is here> when you aren't using its powers. Which means the slingers themselves have to be good enough to not always need the Fate Points (which need a new name for this) since they won't last long on borrowed time.

I mentioned Tarot swords and axes and random melee weapons back in the first thread, why are we just now discussing them?

>>6334716
Okay, now I see what you're getting at. Actually that does work out a lot better. You buy abilities as you go. Works with the whole unlocking the power of the cards. Attuning and what not.
I was just stuck on a more rule-lite idea of the combat system.

>>6334745

No. It takes to much focus away from the 'slingers. They're what this is about; and that's way too much Law for the Lawless west anyways.

>>6334745
Way tangential to what's going on, man. It sounds like a workable idea, just one that isn't anywhere near what we're doing.

>>6334745
I don't like this for two reasons. One, it represents creep of more and more games into the fluff. Two, it represents a place where there will be an awkward mixture of chess and cards. It would take a lot of time to make them mesh nicely. Again; wait on the splatbooks. Straightforward Core is what we are aiming for now. Once the game becomes playable we can worry about new content?

>>6334711

Already in thread 2: Queen of Diamonds is a shiny gun plated in gold and covered with diamonds that causes lust in all that look upon it, while the wielder is shooting them as they gape.

Also, it is owned by a gay guy, hence "Queen."

>>6334782
Well, she certainly wouldn't need to worry about him marrying or looking at a woman...

>>6334752

Yeah, that's my bad. I saw someone else mentioned it, and was reminded of what you said earlier so I decided to bring it up again for no reason.

>>6334782

The guns can be whatever the players and GM want in a particular game; we're not going to sit here and dictate all 54. We're just giving cool examples here.

>>6334797

Except the Upper 18, which are supposed to be OP and used by "bad guy" npc's.

>>6334797
Give a few legends for each, but ultimately let each be nebulous -- after all, who knows which story is actually right?

>>6334797
That being said, I would like it if someone made a list of all the descriptions made so far, repeats or not. It'd be nice to have.

"The Black Jack" or "21" (Jack of Spades)
The Jack of spades will kill exactly 21 people in each hand that holds it, going under is not so bad but god help you if you try to go over.

>>6334797
This. It seems to be increasingly accepted that guns only tend to have a "style," and that their actual form changes from wielder to wielder. Besides that there are tons of rumors and tons of red herrings concerning the Cards, especially the more famous ones.

Do the card games that many of the guns so clearly reference predate the appearance of the guns, or were the games made up by people who heard stories about battles between Card-carrying slingers?

What with all the superstitions, playing cards might not even be considered proper in some places anymore, too.

Jack of Clubs is a hand-cranked gatling gun that is wielded by a tremendous, enigmatic Russian. It's said to weigh over three hundred pounds, and its rounds have to be custom-tooled at tremendous cost.

How the Russian affords this is variously explained by sinister Russian Orthodox Church connections, familial wealth, or mercenary work.

>>6334837
Some say the Guns were first, others say the games were first. Bit of a chicken-and-egg thing, since nobody's perfectly sure.

The three of clubs or something. It's a two barrel derringer. Small. Unassuming, except of course for the engraving.

It's got some kind of nickname, I DUNNO WHAT.

When it's fired, two interesting things happen. First, there's a thunderous cracking noise, like thunder. And second, what it shoots is less of a derringer round, and more a .00 shotgun shell.

>>6334868
And it has no kickback— the user can just fire it one handed and watch shit fly.

>>6334843
IS GOOD TIME TO RUN, COWARD!

>>6334883
So... Expanding Bullets?
Not bad.
Maybe we can just come up with powers/drawbacks and assign them to a suit? Makes it easier for a player to make his Card.

>>6334815
I can do that. Give me a little time.

The Nine of Diamonds is a curious Card which is mainly known for never firing straight. It's gained a reputation as an idiot's Card.

>>6334919
A little too general, in my opinion.

>>6334928
Pointbuy for statting your Card?

>>6334942
A little too specific.

What would be a good middle ground would be ideas for powers for each card, but the actuality of the power based upon the user. So it gives you both the lack of bookkeeping and the customizability.

Damn... Have to go to bed...
Been with these threads since post #20 or so in the first one.
Don't fail me, fellow nascen/tg/ame designers!

Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.

We keep the Dealer as an in-game motif, but we use the same term for the D/GM.


The Dealer runs the Game anyway, right? So why not have have run the game game! He could still show up as a tangible part of the role playing, in fact, there would be no difference at all!

So, how about it?

Is our DM to be called the Dealer from now on?

>>6334985
Mother of God.

I...I think I love you.

>>6334666
>>6334719
No, god help you if you get the 'dead mans hand'.
Dead mans hand ya ignorant fool! Aint ya ever heard of...ahhh nevermind just listen.

It happened once, down on the Rio Grand. Some border town by the name of Del Santa Ma Rosa. 'Course you aint heard of it ya damn fool, not many have, and few more will before the last of us die off. Just a saloon and some dumb sons of bitches too stupid of poor to move elsewhere. Good place to hide, if you could find it, not on many maps ya see?

Don't matter now though. It's not there no more. Just a big area about 10 miles wide where horses won't go, nothing seems to live, and i aint ever heard of any man who's gone in that's come back out.

Hell, i was there that night. Shacking up with a sweet lil senorita about to ride'er hard and put'er away wet if ya catch my drift. Walking back from the saloon with a bottle of rotgut, singing a drunken tune 'bout my girl. That's when i saw him. Cant recall what he looked like, but that chill wind that followed him sobered me up well enough to realize what he was.

I've never been very religious, but i know my bible.

"I 'eard a voice cry Come and see. An I looked, and beheld a pale horse an his name that sat on'em was Death, an Hell followed with him."

I got on my horse, and rode 'im just 'bout to death gettin outa that town. No i didn't look back either ya damn fool, didn't want to wind up no piller 'o salt like lot's wife! Like i said, i know's my bible..

>>6334985
>>6334985

>>6334985
Not a bad idea.

>>6334985
It would be really confusing in these threads unless everyone makes sure to make it obvious who they are talking about. Other than that I like it.

>>6334962
So they have some control, but not too much? They sort of... achieve their own balance between their own style and the Cards'? Maybe the cards used to be really stratified into Suits and Numbers, but over time their slingers changed them bit by bit into what the are now?

Them fellas walked right inta the salloon like they owned tha joint. They was a mean bunch, all packin hard steel and weather beaten faces. They ordered drinks and stood around givin' everybody tha evil eyes. One of em spoke right up.

"Which one of you punks gots the balls to fight us?"


All the lads in tha joint hunched over their drinks, not wantin ta get involved. Then the sweetest voice ya ever heard says,

"Let's do it you peckerheads."

This came from a pretty little girl sittin in the corner, couldn'ta been more than 16 winters old. The tough bastards take a look at her and start laughin. Quick as ya can blink, she stood, pulled a fancy silver six shooter off her hip and takes a shot, knocking a metal stein off of tha bar. I'm standin' there wonderin why the hell she would do that when I see that the guy closest to the mug slump over, a hole right in his back.

The fellas start to draw, and she takes a coupla more shots, knockin over the spitoon, busting a lamp, she even shot a coin laying on a table. Each of these shots ended with a man falling dead, even though they were aimed nowhere near their bodies.

Now, I was counting, and this poor lady was down to her last shot, and had two of these bastards pointing their steel at her. For the first time she aims straight at one of the lads, but she seems scared. She starts breathing hard, her hands start shaking.

She takes the shot, but it goes wild, smashing some glass behind the bar. The men open fire, but right as they shoot the girl falls down, holding her arm in pain, yellin,

"OUCH, that hurts Ocho!"

>>6335042
Everyone who was there that night swears that when she yelled they saw a glowing 8 next to a spade on the barrel of the gun.

The men started to advance on the girl, but she stood back up looking like she wasn't in comlplete control of her own body, like someone else had taken over.

As she got up, they fired again, and I swear to the lords I saw that girl's arm come right up and catch both of them bullets up in the barrel of her own gun.

She swung her arm in an arc and shot once, and the chandelier came crashing down, both men falling down with holes in their head.

She stumpled out of teh bar, mumbling. Everyone else said they couldn't understand what she was sayin, but I heard her loud and clear,

"Okay Ocho, I promise I won't try to shoot any people. Just what you tell me to. I promise."

(I'm sorry if my writefaggotry sucks, but it's late and I wanted to get an idea down)

Anything up on 1d4chan yet? Probably too soon, but can't hurt to ask.

>>6335055
>>6335042
"ocho" is a stupid fucking name.
sounds weeaboo too.

was good to start, but you bombed at the end.

>>6335072

Doesn't hurt to ask, but does it hurt to look?

Do it yourself!


Also, no, it is not up yet.

>>6335091

"Ocho" is Spanish for "Eight," fyi

>>6335091
>calling a Spanish word weeaboo

get out, retard

>>6335091

>spanish number eight
>weeaboo

I think you need to sit down and think real hard about what you are doing with yourself.

>>6335091

>Implying that something weeabo is bad

On 4 CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

This whole fucking site is weeabo, schmott guy.

>>6335111
>>6335110

wetbackmind?

>>6335128
estoy usando el interneto

Can we call it a night now?

>>6335091

Meh, difference of opinion. I think a gun that can only fire rounds that were fired at it is pretty cool.

>>6335136

You don't need to use "estoy" as your verb is already conjugated for "I am using."

In America!

>>6335002
awesome

a bump before bed.

>>6334922 here.
Table for first two suits in this pic, the alt names/abilities are for other suggestions for the same one

>>6335590
And here's part 2.

>>6335137
Yeah, I'm very content with calling it a night

Seven of Diamonds. "Jackpot" they calls it... Prettiest gun I ever saw, like ol' King Midas touched it like a lover hisself.. Doesn't rightly make sense neither. Y'd think a gun made-a gold'd melt when it shot somethin', and them seven diamonds spiralin' about th' hilt'd rattle off when it fired.. Hell, I even swear that thing's handle was made-a ivory.

Gaddarn if th' grinnin' feller holdin' it couldn't mess wit' a bullet with that thing. He made a shot 'n this very saloon, aimin' to bust some empty bottle he'd tossed into th' air. I swear, it shot right through the dead center of th' thing and came out th' other end, bullet bounced off th' chandelier, banged off th' spittoon, shot right through th' same bottle while it was still in the air! Hit th' piano next! It start's playin' some tune I swore I never heard on there before and ain't heard again, and gaddarn if it didn' hit the chandelier again shoot through that bottle while it's ass was a pointin' straight up in the air, an put a hole in th' floor a perfect fit fer the pretty thing's neck!

Don' believe me? Th' same bottle's still up on th' counter, th' bit of the floor they had t' cut out to get th' thing outta the floor and the hole in th' bottom t' boot!

Grinnin' fool if y'ask me though.. I heard at least half a dozen men bust into his room t' kill him fer it the same night he showed it off.. Dunno if he got away, but I never did see 'im again, nor'd anyone see the idiot's that broke inter his room..

I tell ya though, I had somethin' like that, I wouldn' be showin' it off.. I'd be paranoid as hell, wavin' that thing around's just askin' fer trouble..

>>6335686

Damn, didn't see someone else'd already done 7D. Just had an idea all a sudden and ran with it.

>>6335709
So? Switch the number and/or suit and everything is right with the world.

Also: http://www.mediafire.com/?e2yrvyozzym

Here's the .xls spreadsheet that I just posted earlier in the two posts above. Since there's a good chance I'll miss the next thread that gets posted due to class or whatever, that'll give a good platform for people to add or edit or whatever.

I like the idea of the Red Joker being unable to shoot, and making it so you're unable to be shot, or unable to die even.

So how about the Black Joker kills you a little bit every time you pull the trigger? Like you lose a year off your life every time you pull the trigger. Sure, you'll kill anything you shoot at, but sooner or later you'll just drop dead from the weight of it all.

>>6335797
Jokers should be undefined, they're wild. Leave it up to the Dealer.

I noticed that people have been using four stats to stat up the guns. This conveniently happens to correspond to the four suits. That seems like it'd be very easy to work into the mechanics if we end up using a deck to play. I imagine something like you declare what kind of attack you're making (based on one of the 4 stats) then cards dealt influence that in some way.

Jack of Spades is traditionally known as Eunuch, or Ogier.

I have been naming my guns after the names of actual cards. There is a lot of history behind some of these names, and in this lost world it would provide a back ground most people wouldn't know. Maybe some sage of the Gun would know and be able to impart this knowledge to a young 'slinger, perhaps giving him so clue to it's nature.

Ogier is named after Ogier the Dane. According to his legend, he is the son of Geoffrey, king of Denmark. In La Chevalerie Ogier de Danemarche, he had a son who was slain by Charlot, son of Charlemagne. Seeking revenge, Ogier sought out and slew Charlot, and was only barely prevented from killing Charlemagne. He resisted Charlemagne for seven years but made peace with him to fight at Charlemagne's side against the Saracens, in which battle he slew the giant Brehus.

Ogier the Dane had a sword named Curtana which, according to legend, bore the inscription "My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durendal."

I like to think that the Gun would think of it's self as Cortana.

Another thought, since the Guns are for all intents and purposes alive, they would whisper to their bearers. Say someone finds a Card in the middle of no where clutched in a dead mans hand. He would carry it in ignorance and have recurring nightmares involving the Gun and would awaken with the name Cortana on his lips.

>>6335891
Too much history/fantasy faggotry. Not enough Weird West.

>>6335042
>>6335055
I'd like this more without the bullet catching. The gun will only fire killing shots if they ricochet off of something else first, and the gun gets mad and "disciplines" the wielder if they don't abide by those rules.

Maybe the girl has just started using it and isn't completely used to it's limitations.

>>6335915
When I first read it, I thought that there was no ricochet. I just thought that the gun worked by having you shoot an inanimate object, the breaking of which would get transferred onto someone nearby.

I like it better that way.

>>6335925
oooh I like that one too. Actually, if you combine that with the bullet catching, I'd like it more.

The gun catches the bullets and harness the power meant to kill the slinger. When that power is unleashed upon an inanimate object, it releases it on the person closest to the object, but it won't work if pointed at a person, and actually inflicts pain on the area of the body the original shot would have hit.

If the slinger is out in the desert where there's nothing to shoot, it may lead to using their own devices.

The slinger comes across a man in the desert, and declares that they start a duel when a coin hits the ground. The wielder of the gun flips a coin in the air, but arcs it towards the duelist. The duelist fires, the slinger catches the shot, fires it at the coin, which is now closer to the opponent.

>>6335963
The bullet catching is meh. I don't care for it.

I do like the idea that the gun would take revenge if you try to shoot someone directly, rather than playing its "shoot the inanimate object" game.

>>6335042
>>6335055 writer here

I didn't know this thread was still going.

I agree with you guys, I don't really like the bullet catching know that I've had time to think more about it, I agree with >>6335976 and I like the idea here >>6335925

No ricochets, no bullet catching, just shooting inanimate objects to inflict death, no shooting directly, punishment if the rules aren't followed.

>>6335915
I do like the idea that she has just started using the gun, and maybe isn't completely used to following the rules, and reverts to proper gunfighting when scared.

Hopefully she'll learn before the gun gets too mad.

Also, nickname or no? If yes, keep Ocho if I rewrite it, or change it something else? I might make it a different card since it looks like someone already made an 8 of spades gun >>6335593 If I change it should I keep the spanish number name?

>>6336066
Ocho is very silly.

Damnit kids, you what fear-inspirin' names! Ocho sounds like a spanish cartoon character.

>>6336066
Nothing wrong with calling the 8 Ocho, though personally I'd make a gun that badass a face card or something. He'd be practically invincible inside any sort of town, and even if you were confronting him in the middle of the desert, you'd better watch out - he might have a glass bottle on him.

I can imagine him carrying a bag of glasses with him. Gets confronted by some outlaws, the slinger proceeds to shoot up the entire bag of glasses. Only one of them left - he tosses his gun to the guy's feet, tells him to shoot. The man hesitantly picks the gun up and does so - but when he pulls the trigger, instead of the gun firing, his arm begins to swell and bulge as he drops the weapon; he screams in agony as his arm explodes. The slinger just smiles cruelly as he walks up, grabs his gun, and walks off towards the next town, leaving the wailing young man behind.

>>6336134
Yeah, a face card would be better.
How about Jack of Spades? It's got a name built in.

>>6336154
I'm not particularly obsessed with assigning the powers to specific guns (though I do feel that's a face card ability right there). Whatever fits the needs of the campaign.

I like that one idea about having guns with a very general power outline, which people actually make up the specifics for (changes from person to person).

>>6336215
I agree that they should be left open for anyone to fill them in. I view the writefaggotry for each gun to be that specific campaign's version of these guns, not hardcoded into the core game.

I'll leave my variation of 7D there for /tg/ to decide what to do with it, for now though.. Feel free to change up this one as you like while you're at it.

I was out in th' desert, not too long ago.. half dyin' of thirst, half blind, half crazy, half starved.. I'm about to either kick th' bucket or bite a cactus when I hear this huge boomin' sound.. Thunder I thought! Rain! I couldn't feel a drop of it though, so I' starts runnin' the way I heard it.. about then, I fall over, musta passed out.. since next thing I know, some injun was pourin' water into me mouth.

He agrees to help me to the nearest town, 'long the way, he tells me a bit abou' hisself.. says he's the chief of some dead village, his friends 'n family all dead, sad tale.. was wary of them, but still.. thing he told me..

Ah.. fergot to mention, seems barely anyone died when they were first invaded.. but, then they was carted off to slave away in some ol' mine. His people were worked t' death y'know, til he was the last one left, he worked just as hard as the others, a real turn th' other cheek kinda guy. He was the chief after all.. old injun had been happy once y'know, he goes on about the man having taken his peace and replaced it with somethin' cold an' dark..

Ah, siddown and shaddap, th' story's important!

Anyways, 'e's the last one left, and th' guy responsible for it all tells him he was worthless as a slave, and's only fit t' fall down'n die like the others. Real nasty piece'a work, goes on about wanting to kill him with a weapon just as worthless, he snatches down some shotgun, sticks it in the chief's mouth.

Click. Dun' fire. Click click click and nothing. Vicious bastard gets angry, giving up on shootin' him and just starts beatin' him with the butt like a club, holdin' it by the barrel, screaming about how useless the gun was, screamin' about how he knew th' guy who'd sold it t' him was a fraud.

>>6336226
That makes sense.

As far as the gun's personality goes, perhaps he's a 'technical pacifist' of sorts?

>>6336263

Chief finally gets angry, grabs th' butt of the shotgun, and just so happens t' pull the trigger.

Wasn't so much a click as an explosion, he tells me the thing shook th' whole building, breakin' all the fancy glasses and bottles and vases, like some huge quake hit. The guy who'd been beatin' him shook worst of all he says, jus' fer a bit a'fore exploding.

About then, he shows me th' gun, was a crude thing, like someone took the most banged up bit of raingutter pipe you ever saw, slapped it it together with some wood and called it a shotgun.. It mighta been a nice enough gun once, but it looked so beaten up an' rusty you could hardly believe it would be good for anything but blowing up, with the idiot holding it. Strangest thing though, it had a king carved into the handle.. little club next to it.. Claimed it was the same gun what shook the house apart and blew that guy to paste.. I still don't rightly believe it.. but still..

That thunder I heard in the desert? Turns out there wasn't a cloud in the sky.. an' didn't see one for at least two months after I met him.. figgure that one out.

>>6336332

Undecided on what I want to call it, changed my mind while reading it but would like some thoughts.

>>6336332
>>6336263
I like it. No idea what to call it though. Storm King, maybe? Seems like a bit of a cop out though.

>>6336354

I did think 'Chief Thunder' since I wanted a gun that didn't look so refined, more a well worn, shoddy looking bit of work to match how unfocused it is, since, as a weapon that doesn't rely on bullets so much as the big boom it makes. (I was hinting it to be a sound based weapon) I thought it might be fitting to make it fairly crude.

>>6336393
THUNDER CHIEF

>>6336393
Does sound a bit silly. Then again, I don't have any better ideas.

Oh, for whoever made the table, the Aces were supposed to all have pretty significant drawbacks to combat their massive powers. They're not things to be used every day, but real trump cards, to be used sparingly if ever.

The Ace of Hearts fires a single shot that, if aimed at the heart, never misses, but it can only be used at extremely short range. You have to get in close to them, very close, and not just physically. For weaker targets being nearby may be good enough, but for the Gunslingers or Holders, you need something more. You have to get past their mental defenses, their constant wariness, and the unwillingness for the Ace to expend itself on someone it hardly knows. And every time you do it, you have to get closer than the last. It's called the Heartbreaker because of its name, because you have to get the trust of everyone you kill, and because eventually, you'll be the one betrayed.

As for the Ace of Spades, it is capable of doing anythign you can imagine it doing, but the more elaborate your plan, the more badly things go horribly right. Every time you fail to see how that one thing happening perfectly could have unintended consequences, it will. It restricts the user as the more complex the shot, the greater care with which it must be planned out, and each hazard avoided. You can still just shoot away, but the less care you take the more it will come back to bite you in the arse with Tzeentchian complexity. Eventually, its users are either killed by their own plots, or give the Card away for fear of what could happen.

The Ace of Diamonds is right, but it should be pointed out that it does not require a conscious will to shoot. Its Holders have to learn self-control, or become a walking massacre. Eventually they have such discipline they do not shoot at all, and lose a fight they could have easily won.

The Ace of Clubs, the Trump Card and the Hand of Death, will always kill its target once fired. No amount of trickery or skill prevent instant death, not even the Joker powers. The problem is it has no defensive abilities whatsoever. The Holder of the Trump Card either learns humility and self-control, or is quickly and violently killed as he finds out the power to kill anyone does not actually equate to the power to keep yourself alive. It doesn't have so specific a drawback as the others, but the players and NPCs who get ahold of it usually see to their own deaths.

>>6336393

Madame LaBoum?

>>6336534
Hm. I like the Ace of Hearts, definately. The Ace of Spades not so much though, then again maybe that's just my inability to envision how that could be used in an RPG.

Uh, 10 of diamonds. Unless that's taken already. Whatever.

Sleek, dark revolver six shooter. The trigger doesn't need to be squeezed. Doesn't even need to be touched. Just aim and fire.

I don't know what to call it. Something.

Personally I hate all this card definition.

You need to make suggestions and offer examples, but the player (and player-group) needs to be able to be creative and invent their own stories, legends and themes.

>>6336627
Indeed. In character gen, you'd be making two characters - the Slinger and the Card he holds.

How about a six shot, revolver style shotgun.

Systemwise, I've been struck by an idea. Shooting is important, right? So lets give it some real mechanical weight:
Every bullet fired rolls 3d6. The first dice is accuracy, second power and third distance. Any shot is a hit with three 3s or better.
A target impossibly far away might mean the distance dice must be 4-5 or over. A target in armour or behind cover (say, a couple of buildings) may require 4-5 or over in power. A target moving at great speed or near invisible may require a 4-5 or over in accuracy.

Get the idea? It's simple, but shooting takes on a significance of its own and every shot is an event. It's also filled with opportunities for 'powers': "Your gun is renowned for it's cannon-like strength, all tests are 3+ regardless of circumstance." or "You summon the terrible power of the King of Spades, all accuracy tests against you in this combat must be 6 to hit. This is at the cost of... etc".

Good? Bad? Ugly?

>>6336720
Also gives the potential for a Jack level gun that can say, allow you to choose which dice corresponds to which statistic. IE you can sacrifice power for accuracy etc., and naturally as the distance neccessary decreases you can shuffle the higher values into power and accuracy.

auto-saging?

Description: "Mad Dean's Gamble" appears to be a well worn Smith and Wesson No. 3 with a stylized roulette table engraving encircling the cylinder. Even the casual man grasping this gun will feel a highly addictive sense of apprehension and anticipation.

History: The Five of Hearts is best known for it's first owner, "Mad" Dean Hanley and his unhealthy addiction to gambling. Mad Dean was always looking for a new way to get the edge that cards or roulette gave him, the thrill of betting all or nothing on a single solitary card flip or roll. It saw the bastard lose more money than he owned, and in desperation, Hanley began using his life as collateral. It started off as simple duels, until Mad Dean needed a bigger rush. Slowly, the holes in this revolver started closing, until the only thing that was left was a single place for 1 bullet. The fool ended up biting the big one when one lucky user managed to shoot a bullet into the Five's barrel, jamming it and causing a misfire which put a nickel sized hunk of lead through Dean's head. From thereon in, it's traveled from risktaker to risktaker, leaving a trail of bodies that have led to most slinger's referring to it by portmanteau, "Dead Man's Gamble"


Five of Hearts "Mad Dean's Gamble"

Speed 3
Precision 2
Power 2
Trick 5

Brand: The Five of Hearts never seems to have a consistent power. Some legendary owners have been known to fire BB pellets when it matters and get gunned down. Others see yella bellied cowards blow giant holes in armored stagecoaches with a single pull of the trigger. When facing off in a duel, the user can elect to roll off against a single opponent. If he wins the roll, double the stats of the Five of Hearts for one turn. If he loses, then halve the stats (rounded down) for one turn.

Tell: The user constantly fidgets with a dice, coin, poker chip, etc.

>>6336964

and I just realized that not only is the five of hearts taken, but it's Spades that are luck based.

So, change this to 5 of spades.

>>6335593
Ten of spades, "Atonement" sounds like it'd be especially fun when wielded by someone who doesn't give a shit about smiting evil and just wants to get through life.

How about we use the suits as the system for shooting,

- hearts - Speed - number of attacks per round
- clubs - damage - damage inflicted to opponent
- spades - accuracy - the value that detemines whether you hit anything
- diamonds - a luck score - used to alter dice rolls or perform feats

For each card you roll for each value like dnd then choose your suit. The next time is add ons. The player then has a limited number of points to add to their card each with a bonus and a drawback. Just as some examples...

Preternatural accuracy - (spades only)- cards with this feat are incredibly accurate capable of hitting targets miles away with ease. Power - Adds xdX to the cards accuracy. Drawback - reduces the cards speed buy half.

Shadow bullets - (any suit) - This card power makes shadows come alive. It can be represented by the Slingers shadow firing bullets instead of him, the targets shadow taking damage just as if it had hit the man or maybe the slinger can use shadows as portals to shoot through. Powers - if a succesful acurracy and luck roll is made the target takes an additional xdX of damage to represent the shot coming from an unexpected direction and a -X modifer to saving throws. Drawbacks reduces accuracy by X amount.

And so on so players can design their own cards using combination of archetypal powers.

>>6337216
I like this.

but I also love the named Guns.

Perhaps we can make the suits a style of shooting patterned after the Honor Cards of the Suit.

Usable with a Shooting Iron, but basically a watered down version of the real thing.

>>6337240
So King of Hearts would work like this http://1d4chan.org/wiki/King_of_Hearts

But if a Smythe manufactured revolver is used with the Heart Suit, it would let you empty all your cylinders in 1 turn?

>>6337268

Just consider them like styles of martial arts on other games. The Hearts style allows for more accurate shooting at the cost of self-protection, giving both you and your opponent +1 to your Accuracy rolls. The Clubs style allows for more powerful shots at the cost of taking fewer shots. For each shot per turn you sacrifice, or for each time you take one more turn before shooting for the big guns, you get +1 to either Power or Distance. Spades allows you to take a -1 penalty to Power or Distance for +1 Accuracy, but only when taking shots requiring 5+ Accuracy. Diamonds allows you to sacrifice one point each of Power, Distance and Accuracy to gain an additional shot per turn, or reduce the number of turns per shot by one.

There are three 'levels' of style, and each level allows you to apply the same bonus and price an additional time, up to three times over. The styles are all a notional lessening of power, because as optional abilities they are too potent to be strict non-gains.

These styles cannot be applied to Cards, because the Cards all require their own specific style to wield.

If you're designing a game the one thing you want to do is give the players creativity. Let the players desing their own Cards using the power/feats system but make sure they can only use pip cards. The face cards are already made and are powerful magguffins, held by NPCs, used by the bbeg or whatever to help create the feel of the seetting without reducing the involvement a player can feel by crafting their own card.

Then have the custom guns be separate from the Cards. Cards acting as legendary artifacts whose power has grown through the blood they have shed. The players guns are young, and will level and grow depending on the players actions. Say a PC uses his gun to protect people. As he grows the Gun develops a sense of justice and will compel the player to act on it punishing him when he doesn't and rewarding him with more of it's power when he does.

I don't care what you all decide gameplay wise, but this shit has been running through my head all day. Make up your mind so I can get to writing some more fluff and background.

Alright, let's test these rules.

Ace of Hearts, the Heartbreaker.

The Heartbreaker's powerful round and notorious ability mean it will always succeed Accuracy and Power rolls, even on a roll of 1. However, its wilful nature and short range mean that a roll of 7+ is required for Distance, making any shot impossible. The score required is reduced by the following amounts for each category the Holder falls into, cumulatively.

Within reach of the Target: -1
In full-body contact with the Target: -1
Personally known by the Target: -1
Intimately known by the Target as friend or romantic partner a week or more previously: -1
Intimately known by the Target as friend or romantic partner while firing: -1
Target has confessed to the above at least five minutes previously to firing: -1

A bit RP-heavy, but I think it satisfyingly encourages the act of developing a deep relationship with someone, listening to their declarations of love, taking them into an embrace, and then shooting them in the heart. This makes my DM-senses go YES.

>>6337445

That's too standard, and a bit off given the setting.

What I like, and what's far more appropriate, is that you 'level-up' your gun by finding the guy with the next-best Card and killing them. It's completely under the Dealer's control, and helps to make the Duels more interesting than the standard bossfights. And, if the players ever screw you up by getting a Card or too good a Card too early, you can either have it not work for them, or even have the Dealer show up in-game to collect them.

>>6337561
Any firearm would work under those conditions. The Aces are supposed to be godly powerful, when you could just stroll up to anyone that trusts you enough and blast them in the heart with a .45 and get the same result.

>>6337613

There's no way to make it more powerful without destroying its story power, and the whole reason it exists is because it's good for story.

Besides, you're fighting in a universe with John Preston being merely pretty good and magical superguns that give you superpowers. Doing the same with a normal weapon to a Holder with a decent Card is a bloody risky business.

>>6337605
Even if the player gets a gun too early DM Fiat. The DM is the Guns personality and can decide if it yields to the slinger or not. Whats to prevent the players from holding a Full House and wrecking a random Ace before they are ready? The Dealer? Hell you just killed the game.

Perhaps an affinity system. Even the most powerful Gun is hampered if it doesn't work well with it's slinger. This would encourage the PC to play to the guns personality. To grow as a character while the Gun gains strength.

>>6337647
Have you ever had a girlfriend? You will do damned stupid shit for no reason, and only later facepalm. Now imagine what happens when you are walking around with a priceless weapon of power, that most people will give their right nut and soul for? Don't you think some pretty little lass might cozy up to you, get under your skin then blast a hole in you?

>>6337666
Which kind seems like the same thing as the Heartbreakers ability.

Dr. I understand you made the Heartbreaker, but don't you kind of see how it doesn't really work? Either in story or in gameplay. Now if it gave you some sort of charisma boost to make it easier to get close to people, then it would make sense.

>>6337683

Oh, it makes perfect sense in story. It's great material for fluff, and it works in its job as a control for the most powerful Cards by working perfectly against Holders who are extremely hard to kill even in those situations. Hell, if you tried that with a normal gun or a weak Card against a Holder you'd probably die. The problem is it just doesn't translate into gameplay in an interesting way, and I don't know how to make it do that.

I'm not too surprised. The reason I've been posting all day is I'm doing something extremely important and utterly shit and this feels close enough to work that I don't feel as guilty procrastinating this way.

>>6337647
The point of the heartbreaker is guilt, right? Since needing to shoot them at point blank is deliciously fluffy, but fails common sense horribly, what if we make the guilt come from somewhere else?

For instance, you could recognize the family and loved ones of every person you've hit with it and suffer a penalty if you have to fight them. Hell, you could have them recognize you right back as the killer. Crippling Guilt and instant enemies, that seems a mechanical and story-ish drawback.

I'm done for the day. I have nine pages of notes, and half written ideas I plan to flesh out during meals tomorrow.

Keep posting shit, this is giving me so many ideas, I will have trouble sleeping tonight.

Originally, the point of the Cards was just to have a set of God-Tier weaponry that may or may not have served as the blueprints for every other major gun; not to have the whole setting devoted to them.

Most of the game should revolve around the Slingers using above average weapons and their own increasing skill. It would make a lot more sense for Cards to be so rare that they may only be sighted once or twice in a campaign.

Today I'm going to write up the alternate history for the setting.

See you later, mi amigos.

I daresay this is one of the best things /tg/ has done in a long long time.

>>6337949
The West might be large, but 54 is too many for that large an area to be barren, unless Mexico and Canada are also party of the 'West' for the sake of this game. Even then you'll be seeing them or passing within a day or two of them frequently.

>>6338433
I don't think you understand how small a number 54 is and how large 'the west' was.

Holy shit, this is still going? Awesome! How far along are we?

>>6333821
Needs some badass Montana-wannabe boss armed with T-Rex Gun.

>>6338572
Assuming the slingers who hold them don't clump together, have to keep moving to avoid getting chased down, and major settlements are about as numerous as they were? It's not like we're considering the whole West for looking at population density, just those parts that were notable. Rivers, wagon routes, cattle routes, stuff like that. Sure there might be some towns of farmers and stuff in the fuckhuge spaces in between, but the region was very much a points-of-light area. Unless we are basing this on the later Wild West.

Sup guys, whats going on?

Bumping because I want to see this done.

>>6339182
pretty sure this is autosaging

The Cards should have originally been forged by a guy called Morricone.You singlehandedly shape an entire genre into what it is today with nothign more than the power of music, you damn well earn a referencing.

You're going to hate me for this, but Fuzion or Interlock could work. If you've ever played cyberpunk you know how quick and deadly gunfights can be.

We would just make a plugin for mekton-style gun construction that would assign a CP value based on some base tables and multipliers. The system already has rules for weapons that are effective in close quarters (revolvers) vs. longguns.

With tables and multipliers you could very easily set it up so that small caliber weapons have an inherent quickdraw (initiative) bonus but you could throw extra CP at a large caliber weapon to make it draw faster.

If you guys want I can make up a spreadsheet with the current personal sidearm rules from MZTS, and we can start adding game-specific multipliers and rules into it.

I'm thinking 10 of Clubs for a gun which is not inherently superior overall, but at the users will it can become more accurate, shoot further, or hit harder, for each specific shot fired, at the expense of the other two attributes.

A lot of people wouldn't even realise it was a Card, but the wielder sure would.

The Deuce Of Diamonds. 'Sinful Wages'

It was a two-shot Derringer. It wasn't fast. It wasn't powerful. Won't blow a house down, anyway.

All I know is, I put bullets into it. I miss? I wound? Empty coppery shells fall out when I crack it open.

But when I kill? When I go to reload, I find bits of gold the size of a tooth instead of those casings. I shot a man in the dark, a black pearl. I kill a drunk in his sleep, a lump of slate. I shot a man once in a fair duel, and I got a diamond for my trouble.

Soon, very soon I hope to see what happens when I take out another Card.