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    123 KB Hypotheitical situation pt 2.5 Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:02 No.6149075  
    Reposted because the thread is autosageing

    Original thread

    A continuation of the Hypothetical situation thread from a few weeks ago.

    The Paladin is now free from the sex-crazed drow matron and her nympho daughters. The youngest daughter was the equivalent of a teenager, he was her first and now she's infatuated with him (hooray for teenage hormones). So she helped him escape.

    Now the Paladin is in a bit of a conundrum. He now has an adolescent drow rogue following him around. She's not evil, he checked, she's neutral. She could care less about the battle between good and evil, she's just selfish, amoral, used to taking what she wants when she wants it, facing no consequences for doing so and is prone to violent acts against people who anger her.

    How should the Paladin handle this situation?
    >> Sergeant Alexandros II 10/05/09(Mon)21:02 No.6149083
    I liked the other thread's OP picture better.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:03 No.6149092

    Any new developments on the mater from the last thread?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:05 No.6149103
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:05 No.6149105

    An interesting discussion of what might happen if the Paladin asks the drow girl to marry him once they have been together for a while.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:05 No.6149109
    > She's not evil, he checked
    Invasion of privacy, paladin falls.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:07 No.6149119
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    >> G. D. 10/05/09(Mon)21:07 No.6149123
    It's within the Paladin's right to check if she's evil or not. Paladin stays.

    Later, they walk through a forest and the Paladin snags his foot on a tree root.

    Paladin falls.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:07 No.6149126
    Invasion of privacy is a lawful act, not an evil one.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:07 No.6149127
    You mean, 'Have her lure people into an alley, beat them, then steal their golds before she leads me into a different alley for a quickie."
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:08 No.6149138

    In a Feudal system, privacy is a priveledge, not a right.
    Motion denied!
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:08 No.6149143
    just expect another long thread about wither being selfish, amoral and prone to violence constitutes as evil in d&d

    now, if she was a PC and not an NPC people probably wouldn't even be making the arguement
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:09 No.6149154
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    >She's not evil.

    >She's just selfish, amoral, used to taking what she wants when she wants it, facing no consequences for doing so and is prone to violent acts against people who anger her.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:10 No.6149163
    You don't know a fucking thing about the paladin code as written, and are probably convinced the bullshit /tg/ spews about paladins falling are actually in the rule book. Get the fuck out, now, and educate yourself.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:10 No.6149165

    Agreed, that describe EVERY SINGLE PC CN ROGUE EVER.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:11 No.6149174
    The paladin should continue traveling with her, taking every opportunity to show her acts of kindness and love and to demonstrate his faith, thereby broadening her understanding of his teachings and bringing her around to his way of thinking.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:11 No.6149175
    really you should think of what the ultimate end is to being selfish, amoral and prone to violence but i think that led to a clusterfuck in the last thread too
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:11 No.6149180
    Sorry to disappoint, but that's just super duper neutral. "Evil" as an alignment is someone who goes out of their way to obstruct and hurt others for teh lulz. Or for a greater purpose which will in turn be an even greater evil, again for teh lulz.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:11 No.6149184
    Lead by example.

    Don't directly disagree with her without sound, Paladin-esque reason. Simply walk the path of the Paladin and let her follow. It will likely subdue her into a good alignment, eventually.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:13 No.6149201
    >subdue her into a good alignment

    Also, you could start withholding the lawful good dickings, instead giving them out as a reward for good behavior.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:13 No.6149203

    Dammit, OP, at least try to justify her behavior so she doesn't sound evil. Did you already forget what happened in the last thread?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:14 No.6149207
    Yeah, she's just a woman.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:14 No.6149215
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    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:15 No.6149224
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    >selfish, amoral, used to taking what she wants when she wants it, facing no consequences for doing so and is prone to violent acts against people who anger her.
    >not evil
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:17 No.6149240

    Potentially a good idea, but she might rebel. The key is to let her choose a less good-resistant path, not be forced into it.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:17 No.6149249

    Sorry to disappoint, but you're just retarded. How realistic do you think "someone who goes out of their way to obstruct and hurt others for teh lulz" is? There's a difference between being evil and being hurfhdurfh i kil u becaz i evul lol lol
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:18 No.6149255
    > "Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.

    >People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships.

    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:18 No.6149256
    yea eventually becoming a paladin herself, then she can become somebodies weaboo self-insert mary sue character
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:18 No.6149260
    Spank her when she's bad and fuck her when she is good.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:18 No.6149263
    To be worth the Evil alignment, you have to be unredeemable and babykillng.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:19 No.6149266

    The OP is only saying that she's chaotic and out for her own. I.E. Chaotic-Neutral.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:20 No.6149277
    >How realistic do you think
    Sorry, what was that? These giant ants were making too much noise cooking in my Fireball spells, let me set down my magic flying carpet so I can hear you better.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:20 No.6149279
    We should get back on that marriage discussion.
    "Will you marry me?"
    "Oh a ring! Whats 'marry'?"
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:20 No.6149281
    this could backfire spectacularly
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:21 No.6149289
    rolled 90 = 90

    Use her sex drive to tame here Chaotic tendencies.

    5+ Chaotic, Evil, or Selfish infractions - Handjob, no sex

    4 Chaotic, Evil, or Selfish infractions or less - Vanilla sex, 2 rounds max

    3 Chaotic, Evil, or Selfish infractions or less - Fetish

    2 Chaotic, Evil, or Selfish infractions or less - Hard Fetish, 4 rounds max

    No infractions, 2+ Good, Lawful, or Selfless actions - Holy dickings all night long, anything goes
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:22 No.6149305
    rolled 91 = 91


    * 3 rounds max
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:24 No.6149320
    >"Evil" as an alignment is someone who goes out of their way to obstruct and hurt others for teh lulz


    A crime boss who has a person killed and his family sold into slavery because he didn't pay back the debt on time is evil. He is not doing this for "teh lulz" or any sadistic desire. He's doing it because he wants his god damned money.

    The crime lord is a selfish, amoral person used to taking what he wants when he wants it and facing no consequences for doing so. He also has a tendency to engage in violent acts against people who anger him.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:24 No.6149325

    That could also backfire spectacularly.

    "Wait what?! Bind myself to a man permanently? What a ridiculous concept. Who would possibly do something like that?

    Wait........All the surface races?"
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:24 No.6149326
    I'm pretty sure drow have marriage (well, sex slavery), they're probably just not too familiar with the whole "one man per woman" limit.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:25 No.6149338

    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:26 No.6149345
    Not even all humans do that.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:26 No.6149352
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:26 No.6149359
    "You have been bad"
    "What? No!"
    "You need me to be bad first? I'LL GO START SOME FIRES THEN."
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:27 No.6149368
    He's not "amoral", retard, he's "immoral" by virtue of being a fucking crime lord.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:27 No.6149371
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    You're digging yourself an "I'm retarded" hole, and if you keep it up much longer you won't be able to climb back out.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:29 No.6149382

    ... while it may sorta defeat the original purpose of trying to reform her, it'd still be fun. So I still don't really see a problem.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:29 No.6149392
    If he did only want his god damned money, he wouldn't do that. He would find another way to get his god damned money that certainly drives a point home, but doesn't damn that whole family of potentially future money-bringers to a life with no future. A smart businessman who wants nothing more than his god damned money recognizes that selling employees into slavery because they failed to meet a quota one month is a very short-sighted strategy. Someone who just wants his god damned money is Neutral.

    Now, someone who will go well out of their way to instill fear in those who pledge loyalty to them, to ensure that their rule is concrete and to make certain that no one will dare failing them, is Evil. To them, the god damned money is a means to the end of power and control.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:33 No.6149426

    ... someone is amoral when they have no morals. It's used to describe people who don't have a problem with things like killing and stealing.

    You know, things most people have a moral prohibition against, but, if someone doesn't have any morals, the only thing keeping that person from engaging in said activities is the perceived risk.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:34 No.6149447
    And "immoral" is when they have morals, but deliberately ignore them.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:35 No.6149462
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    Sandy kills the Paladin being corrupted by the drow. She also kills the drow for being evil.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:37 No.6149472

    Seconded. Stat them. Preferably in 3.5 or Pathfinder.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:37 No.6149474

    Sometimes the effort of the other ways to get your god damn money aren't worth it; especially if it becomes known that you NEVER kill anyone who has the POTENTIAL to be an asset. Why would people need to pay up more than they need, say, their kidneys, if you aren't going to do worse to them than the lengths they will have to go to get you your god damn money would?
    Sometimes killing a family will ensure that you get your god damn money from other people, thereby stabilizing and perhaps enhancing your income.
    Evil != stupid.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:37 No.6149475
    >doesn't damn that whole family of potentially future money-bringers to a life with no future.

    Actually, there's a good chance he'd get more out of the family by selling them into slavery than by leaving them alive. The fact that the man couldn't repay his debt in the first place means that they weren't bringing in a lot of money beforehand.

    >A smart businessman who wants nothing more than his god damned money recognizes that selling employees

    They weren't employees.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:37 No.6149479
    If she ain't fucking evil, what is?

    Rapin' paladins is fucking evil.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:38 No.6149495
    Fucking this.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:39 No.6149506

    So what about those CEOs who brutally assraped their company and employees retirement funds?

    They weren't doing it because they wanted the economy to collapse. They just wanted their god damned money, but they didn't care who they had to hurt to get it.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:40 No.6149513
    From old thread, a quandry about law and chaos.
    >If the law says women shall be veiled and topless in public on sundays, then by god the PCs chicks had better stay inside on sunday if they have objections.
    This actually raises the question of what is The Law, and by extension where true Authority rests in society. Say this is The Law as proposed by the Emperor of Whatever, but the vast majority of the people disagree with it, certain philosophies woudl say that the will of the people is what the true law should be, and a figure in power trying to override the will of the people is by its very nature unlawful, thus our supposed "law," is in fact unlawful.

    What does the elemental plane of law actually say?
    >> G. D. 10/05/09(Mon)21:43 No.6149548
    ...and Sandwich falls for not only killing one of her own kind, but killing a non-evil character with no justification in doing so.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:43 No.6149554
    I really do think that the good, paladin-y, but not quite lawful thing to do here would be to enter into a loving relationship with the poor girl and be the best example of righteousness one could be. Share your beliefs with her, protect and nurture her, and help her discover herself. She's young and all she knows is the horrible evils of drow society, show her that there's a better way and that you care about her.

    Again, when being LG, I tend to err on the side of good versus lawful.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:44 No.6149559
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    It says "Alignments are gay and should be determined by the character's actions, not the other way around"
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:45 No.6149573
    you actually bring up a very good point

    she sure did participate in raping the paladin or was at least heavily compliant with the act of raping

    but she did set him free so...
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:45 No.6149576

    >In it for self regardless of consequences to others

    This is evil people, get used to it.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:47 No.6149589
    >when being LG, I tend to err on the side of good versus lawful.
    As paladins should. Otherwise, you risk turning into a Knight Templar.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:48 No.6149594

    Well, that's what it SHOULD say.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:48 No.6149603

    Damn you tvtropes!

    You won't get me this time!
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:53 No.6149661

    The Law refers to a set of internal principles that guide the character's actions. This could include obedience to the law of the land, but this isn't necessarily the case.

    Let's say we have a LG paladin who has a thing against slavery, but he's in a country where slavery is both legal and widely practiced. The paladin would still be LG if he decided to break the law in an attempt to free the slaves.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:55 No.6149707
    So if we accept that The Law can have different meanings everywhere you go and that Lawful is a broad alignment type, can we do the same with Evil and Neutral and GET ON THE FUCKIGN JOB WITH STATING THESE FOLKS?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:00 No.6149756

    No, because good, neutral, and evil are clearly defined.

    Good: I help people
    Evil: I hurt people
    Neutral: I don't really hurt or help people / I do a bit of both, without going to an extreme

    The only gray area is with theft, which seems to be repeatedly ignored as causing harm.
    >> The Bastard Linking You to TVTropes 10/05/09(Mon)22:01 No.6149764

    It's not so much Knight Templar that you have to watch out for. It's Lawful Stupid.


    THIS is far more dangerous. But the two are closely related.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:01 No.6149768
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    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:02 No.6149774
    Hey, allow me to fucking fix the OP's post so it doesn't bring up the fail of the D&D alignment system.

    >start edit
    A continuation of the Hypothetical situation thread from a few weeks ago.

    The Paladin is now free from the sex-crazed drow matron and her nympho daughters. The youngest daughter was the equivalent of a teenager, he was her first and now she's infatuated with him (hooray for teenage hormones). So she helped him escape.

    Now the Paladin is in a bit of a conundrum. He now has an adolescent drow rogue following him around.
    A decent judge of character due to being a hard travelin' holy hero type, he feels that this drow is redeemable.
    However, she is still very much a drow in mannerisms.
    >end edit
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:02 No.6149783

    But everyone fucking hurts people and helps people.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:03 No.6149786
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    I asked my girlfriend if she would roleplay this out with me.

    I haven't gotten a no yet.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:03 No.6149791
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    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:03 No.6149795
    >Good: I help people
    >Evil: I hurt people
    >Neutral: I don't really hurt or help people / I do a bit of >both, without going to an extreme

    >The only gray area is with theft, which seems to be >repeatedly ignored as causing harm.

    Smite Evil hurts people, ergo pallys are evil.

    That's what you're saying, right?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:03 No.6149799
    OP's description of "neutral" fails miserably.

    >takes what she wants
    >acts as she pleases without regards for others

    That's evil, bro. Neutral Evil.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:04 No.6149808

    You're gonna have her put on blackface?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:05 No.6149823
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    >Good: I help people
    >Evil: I hurt people

    Smite Evil hurts people, ergo pallys are evil.

    That's what you're saying, right?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:05 No.6149826
    Above the roaring fires that now consumed her birthplace, she heard a scream. She felt a prick of concern for her blood family. She did not care for them much but could not deny that she hoped that was a servant and not one of them.

    She stood stock still as the fire ran through her house like a hungry snake. Shadowy figures emerged from crackling and crumbling stone archways, away from the flames and off into the dark. From this distance, it was hard to tell.

    She felt a soft hand fall on her shoulder.

    'I'm sorry it had come to this.'

    She felt a venomous anger rise in her belly. Who was this former slave to touch her without permission? She felt herself reach for the curved knife she kept near her waist. But before she could yank the dagger from its sheath a more equal, and powerful feeling gripped her.

    She fell to her knees and started to sob.

    'You might have killed them all Paladin! They might not have been much to you or me but they were still my family!'

    He watched the small shuddering form carefully as it lay in a piteous state on the stone cavern floor, his hand still tight on the pommel of the sword. This one had been last, and had taken particular joy in her duty.

    But she showed a healthy amount of hesitance, a subconcious respect born out of her innocence for the slave she had thrust herself upon. She was still young, relatively, and her tears for the family who had planned to use her as nothing more than a tool proved that perhaps there was still a chance she could be saved from her upbringing.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:06 No.6149836
    He removed his other hand from his sword to place both upon her heaving shoulders. While she wept, he took the time to read her.

    First he was confused, for there were two readings. One was like the mist upon a dark moor or the fog that falls upon the recent dead. This could be removed, but not without work. And another... not yet formed. But, white. Pure, brilliant, white.

    He recoiled for a second as he realised what lay within. She did not notice as he withdrew in shock, still free to weep.

    She finally regained control of herself. As she raised herself to her feet she expected to see a self amused smirk or an irritating smile upon the face of the paladin, having caught her in a moment of weakness.

    Instead she found him non-judgemental. He was thinking about something but his worry was plain. He did not care for the suffering of others, even if they had made him suffer before, he just wanted to see her... happy? A new feeling crept up in her, one she had not felt before.

    She stepped forward as if to say something but stumbled, her legs still weak. She cursed herself for revealing a second moment of weakness. But took the hand he offered with a gentle grip as he pulled her back up.

    'Let's get you out of this place.'

    She could find no reason to deny him. She held tightly onto him as he led her away.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:06 No.6149840

    It's ok to hurt evil people.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:06 No.6149842
    Ok, here's what we've got so far I guess:

    He takes her with him, in hopes to redeem her and turn to the light. She is somewhere around:

    [] Chaotic
    [] Neutral
    [] Evil

    (pick two different)

    So they travel together and he does what he always does (helping, smiting, behaving) and does his best to don't let her do anything evil.

    She eventually sees that gratitude is something heartwarming and worth fighting for. That trust is something not found among chaotic evil dickfaces. That true love that she feels can't be anything but good.

    So she snaps, grows out of shenanigans and turns to the light side, maybe not instantly, but inevitably. While obviously NOT being liked by other people, paladin protects her from xenohating ignorants, because DURR, he's a white knight.

    So she eventually becomes if not lawful, then at least neutral good. And to be even closer, to understand paladin better, she becomes a cleric of his deity.

    Afterwards they don't argue much and live a happy smiting life, purging undead and helping old people with dangerous tasks, earning delicious rewards.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:07 No.6149851
    You know what, fuck the "is she neutral, is she evil" argument, she's a young Drow who may not have fully been indoctrinated into the CE Drow society, shouldn't the Paladin still try to redeem her and turn her into a LG benefit to society?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:08 No.6149853

    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:09 No.6149862
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:09 No.6149863
    So evil might be harmless ?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:11 No.6149889
    Hitler is evil, it is OK to kill Hitler.
    Stalin is evil, it is OK to kill Stalin.
    Thatcher is evil, it is OK to kill Thatcher.
    Mao is evil, it is OK to kill Mao.
    Putin is evil, it is OK to kill Putin.
    Bin Laden is evil, it is OK to kill Bin Laden.
    Hugo Chaves

    Good and evil are all too often just a point of view.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:12 No.6149895
    A better description of good and evil from Night Watch book:

    Good: helps others, sacrificing own needs
    Evil: uses others to fill own needs
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:12 No.6149896
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:13 No.6149903
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    do them dark elves count?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:13 No.6149905
    I like this, I'm DAWWWing inside.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:14 No.6149912
    And after 30 years, when he's dead and she's still adolescent, what happens ?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:15 No.6149918

    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:16 No.6149931
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    Oh, definitely.

    As a paladin he should use this as an opportunity to reform her.



    Not every evil person is going to a threat to society. Some might even be beneficial to society at large. Pic related.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:17 No.6149941
    >Good and evil are all too often just a point of view.

    Not in D&D

    But, then again, the D&D alignment system is pretty dumb.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:17 No.6149943
    I enjoyed immensely. +1 internets for you.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:18 No.6149947
    I don't think it's about needs. At most, sacrifice of one's needs is a lawful thing, meeting one's needs is chaotic, but evil and good are not relevant.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:19 No.6149954
    I was thinking about it. We assume that he's a human right?

    If so, well... he dies and she lives, spreading Light among Darkness, with him in her heart, always. She has hard times, sometimes people don't want her help, because she is a drow. But she finds friends that understand her and realises that race does not make you a certain person. Other people do.

    She will always remember him, for he made her see the good side of life and find her inner peace.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:20 No.6149959
    I think they grow at the same rate as humans, but they stay in their prime for much, much longer than we do.

    Also, he's a paladin in the service of a good deity, he might prove himself to be useful and allowed to remain living for a longer than normal period. It wouldn't be the first time it has happened.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:20 No.6149966
    Directly killing tens of thousands and unleashing a demon lord who creates a plague of undeath... helpful, sure.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:21 No.6149974

    Yup. Evil creatures can surrender and be taken prisoner, at which point they are considered harmless. A paladin will not challenge tribe of orcs who moved into the area and haven't done anything wrong, and he will not slay any being that has surrendered. He will not mistreat prisoners beyond simple inconvenience, and he will, if possible, try to redeem any villains he can.

    This is all explained in chapter 1 of BoED.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:21 No.6149976
    So are these two just going to stay nameless or are we going to give them names.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:22 No.6149979
    Good and evil are as much a point of view than the wall of the faithless. That's the gods dickery.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:23 No.6149993

    And now I don't know the character, but what about situations when you have to sacrifice few innocent people that do not agree to save millions, or even whole world?

    You are basically doing something horribly evil and very good at the same time.

    If a D&D paladin comes to such situation, sacrificing will make him fall and letting millions die will make him fall.

    That's fucked up
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:26 No.6150014
    >How should the Paladin handle this situation?

    Reform school.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:27 No.6150025
    Reminds me of Warcraft 3 when Arthas burn a large village down because the townsfolk have all been infected with a zombie virus that will kill them all anyway.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:28 No.6150035
    A couple things here.

    Sandy is a dwarfmaid. And what would killing a another drow have anything to do with falling?
    The drow is obviously evil. Kidnapping and raping a pally. Amoral. Aggressive. Evil.
    The paladin is willfully traveling with an evil aligned drow. He also failed his detect evil check. Thus either he is fallen and evil or corrupted by the drow. Either way he deserves death.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:28 No.6150038
    Won't she turn into a drider for pissing off Lolth?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:28 No.6150041

    "Some good characters might view a situation where an evil act is required to avert a catastrophic evil as a form of martyrdom: “I can save a thousand innocent lives by sacrificing my purity.” For some, that is a sacrifice worth making, just as they would not hesitate to sacrifice their lives for the same cause. After all, it would simply be selfish to let innocents die so a character can hang on to her exalted feats. Unfortunately, this view is ultimately misguided. This line of thinking treats the purity of the good character’s soul as a commodity (like her exalted feats) that she can just give up or sacrifice like any other possession. In fact, when an otherwise good character decides to commit an evil act, the effects are larger than the individual character. What the character sees as a personal sacrifice is actually a shift in the universal balance of power between good and evil, in evil’s favor. The consequences of that single evil act, no matter how small, extend far beyond the single act and involve a loss to more than just the character doing the deed. Thus, it is not a personal sacrifice, but a concession to evil, and thus unconscionable."
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:29 No.6150043
    Why would something like aging apply to an adventurer anyway? With all the magical doodads the typical example of said group runs across, halting or reversing the aging process is probably the least of the physics/biology/insertscienceofyourchoicehere raping bullshit they can pull off.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:31 No.6150058
    >unleashing a demon lord who creates a plague of undeath

    Rance didn't unleash Xavier, the first gourd fell by accident and the rest were collected by secret agents directly under the control of Xavier. The curse of undeath youkai was released by Xavier.

    Rance solved both of those problems... while killing and raping countless people.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:31 No.6150059
    I didn't read much of the fluff of that book, because it looks retarded. Sparing the surrendering goblin chief and then giving to the next human court is hypocrisy.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:33 No.6150079

    No, that's a fucked up viewpoint. That's the way a DM who wants to see the Paladin fall would respond.

    In one case, the Paladin is saving those who are in immediate need. On the other, he is sacrificing a few to save many. Both are good acts.
    I would honestly say that saving more people by sacrificing a few would be the closer to an "evil" act, depending on the Paladin's code and tenets of his religion. Accepting defeat by sacrificing a few means you've given up on finding another way.
    After all, you can always save those in front of you now, and then prevent further loss later on.

    Yes, you can cite extreme situations wherein there is no choice but to sacrifice a few, or sacrifice many, but if the Paladin is truly doing his best to do the right thing in keeping with his code and religion, he should never be forced to fall by GM dickery.

    This is why DMs are shitty. Two opposed choices can both be good.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:34 No.6150090

    In all the 3e splatbooks I've read there I have seen nothing that can grant longevity, except in the final level of certain prestige classes (an evil one comes to mind), and some cases where one must give up all class levels.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:34 No.6150094
    The accident wouldn't have occurred in the first place without Rance being there, and was hastened whenever Rance defeated another kingdom.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:34 No.6150097
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:35 No.6150109
    This, right here, is why DnD alignment is fucked up.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:36 No.6150117

    Their names are Herp and Derp. Don't worry about which is which, they're interchangeable.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:37 No.6150132
    What game are you two talking about?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:38 No.6150140
    ur a faget
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:40 No.6150163
    Isn't there an ability that let's a Paladin directly speak with their god?

    I mean, if you're supposed to be the living embodiment of your God's will (and sword) shouldn't you be one speaking terms?

    If a difficult situation pops up, like what to do with a evil drow rogue following you around (who is Evil by how the op described her, take your subjective good/evil elsewhere), confer with your almighty and ask for advice.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:40 No.6150164
    That doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means that they aren't particularly relevant to the average DnD campaign. There's probably all sorts of artifacts and spells that have no direct adventuring related use that don't get mentioned either.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:40 No.6150168

    >Sparing the surrendering goblin chief and then giving to the next human court is hypocrisy.

    "This leads good characters (especially lawful good characters) into a dilemma: Is it wrong to turn a prisoner over to legitimate authorities knowing that the prisoner will be tortured and abused in captivity? Fortunately, the answer is straightforward, if sometimes difficult to implement. Yes, delivering a person over to be tortured, even if the person is thoroughly evil and the torturers are a legitimate authority, is evil. How to avoid being put in that position is a more difficult question, and one that depends greatly on the circumstances. " -BoED page 11 (fuck yeah OCR)

    It also mentions that paladins should avoid being the judge and executioner whenever possible, instead allowing the proper authorities to mete out punishment. While torture is unequivocally evil in D&D, sentencing an evil creature to death is not, unless they have not committed a crime that warrants it. In that case, it's often a case of court corruption, which the book encourages paladins to expose.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:41 No.6150178
    >The accident wouldn't have occurred in the first place without Rance being there,

    The accident wouldn't have occurred if the guy hand't invited Rance to be his general.

    In the end, an accident is still an accident and no one is at fault for Xavier being released.

    >was hastened whenever Rance defeated another kingdom.

    That's not entirely accurate, because not all countries were in possession of a gourd. Also, if you take too long to conquer the gourd possessing countries, Xavier's secret agents will steal the gourds without the country being conquered. Additionally, Rance wasn't aware that his conquests were fueling the newly awoken demon, and when Rance did find out he actively worked to defeat Xavier - even refusing Xavier's offer to make him into an apostle.

    Don't get me wrong, Rance was definitely evil, but he's not at fault for Xavier's release.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:42 No.6150193
    I'm speaking of situation when you can't do anything. When you have to pick one way or the other.

    If you sacrifice people, you will be killing innocents.
    If you save people, you will cooperate in killing millions.

    Both are quite damn evil if you ask me. That's why alighment system fails.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:43 No.6150203

    Elves don't brush their teeth, they chew sticks which somehow does something similar. The 3e splatbooks are full of that stuff. Can you honestly say that's something that would be relevant at any point in an adventurer's career?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:44 No.6150214

    Her: Drisryna

    Him: Elan
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:44 No.6150215
    I guess they are Paladin and Drow-chan.

    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:44 No.6150216

    Not the poster of this, but requesting answer to this question as well.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:45 No.6150220

    The sticks are made of stuff similar you use in toothpaste, duh.

    Not terrible interesting.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:45 No.6150224

    Clean teeth might become important for making diplomacy rolls.
    >> ThatXComUtilFag 10/05/09(Mon)22:47 No.6150245
    Amoral =/= Immoral

    Immoral would be evil, Amoral would be neutral.

    You can do bad things and not be evil, as much as you can do good things and not be bad.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:47 No.6150248
    Oh really? Where's this mentioned? As for your question, depends on the campaign. Probably not though. They did mention potions of longevity or something like that in some old sourcebook however. I think it was for 2nd edition. The main reason why they wouldn't be mentioned is the average campaign wouldn't last long enough for aging to be an issue. Same reason why age/aging doesn't receive much attention in general for the most part.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:50 No.6150272

    Well, yes, the alignment system is a bit unruly, but the situation you're describing is still solvable for a paladin.

    What you're describing is too nonspecific. In a specific situation, even if it seems generic on paper, there is a way out which doesn't involve willfully committing an evil act.

    For example, if there's a sorcerer about to summon some deific evil while his minions on the other side of the room are about to kill innocents, each choice to either kill the Sorc before he can finish or ignoring him to save the others, is a good act. He is actively pursuing a good action, even if it bears other consequences, which the Paladin will have to resolve afterward.

    But the act of making that choice isn't in and of itself evil.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:53 No.6150292
    > amoral. It's used to describe people who don't have a problem with things like killing and stealing.

    I don't think you know how to use that word...
    Amoral means that they have no morals, yes. But that means that since most every person is at least introduced as a child to morals (which aren't necessarily "good-aligned" morals; some societies taught/teach that it was okay to sacrifice other innocent human beings, after all.) Therefore, it's impossible for any "human-intelligence" creature with linguistic ability and/or a symbol capacity to be amoral.

    To be immoral is to go against what you were taught was right.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:54 No.6150305
    I was thinking of something more radical.

    Lets say an insanely powerful demon appears before unexperienced paladin and puts him in such situation. Demon is interested in killing those very people, but can't reach them somehow. Paladin however can. If he won't, demon will destroy a city.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:54 No.6150307

    >DnD alignment is fucked up.

    Um, duh? DnD has, as its basic premise, an objective black-and-white alignment system. The real world doesn't. As such, what we see as grey areas have to be black-and-white.

    Personally I see it this way: If you have the choice to save billions of people by murdering a baby and using its blood to perform a ritual that will prevent some catastrophe, then it means you had the power to save those people. When you do something so despicable, you give all that power over to evil, which now has the power to kill those people, plus the power you gave it when you killed that baby. In the short term, good wins, but on the whole you've just made evil more powerful as a whole. Nice job breaking it, hero.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:55 No.6150312
    When you pair it with what can be construed as stealing and violence when she doesn't get her way, I would say she is evil.
    >> Godflayer 10/05/09(Mon)22:55 No.6150313
    I redirect your attention to the actual question, /tg/.
    Yes, yes, I know we like to bicker and argue, but I for one would like to see where this goes. Now, if we can drop the debate on morality because it's view is entirely perspective-based and continue?
    Thank you.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:56 No.6150322
    >To be immoral is to go against what you were taught was right.

    By this this reasoning the drow girl is immoral for releasing the paladin and following him around when she should be scheming to become the top bitch of the Underdark.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:56 No.6150331

    Races of the Wild, page 8.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:57 No.6150336
    I solve the problem by simply flat-out denying the players the right to use alignment. No universal morality; use fucking common sense or get our of my fucking game.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:58 No.6150344
    It was answered already. See
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:59 No.6150348

    Paladin must sacrifice himself in the pursuit of stopping the demon. That's the whole point of being a paladin, sacrificing your own well being to protect others.

    Either the divines will grant you the strength and fortune to overcome this foe, or you shall die in your battle to protect others from harm.
    Perhaps you will even buy enough time for the others to escape.

    If a GM put me in that kind of a no-win situation because he's being a dick, I'm going to do the right thing, the paladin thing, even and especially if it means sacrificing myself for the well being of others.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:59 No.6150351
    You sir, are a reasonable GM. Wish every single one was like that.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:00 No.6150357
    >Now, if we can drop the debate on morality because it's view is entirely perspective-based and continue?

    Morality isn't perspective based in D&D. Yes, it's stupid, but assuming the OP is playing in a traditional D&D setting (and there's been nothing in his post to indicate that this isn't the case) that's the way the cookie crumbles.

    As for the initial question
    >How should the Paladin handle this situation?

    The obvious answer is that he should attempt to reform her, or at least teach her a bit of self-restraint.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:02 No.6150372
    3E MM says driders are drow who failed a test of Lolth that high-level (14th?) drow are forced to undergo
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:02 No.6150373

    This is what should be done, or at the very least things like Detect [Alignment] should be left out.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:02 No.6150375
    Next time someone goes up for 'martyrdom' I'm gonna call them a terrorist, and a fool.

    Getting yourself killed uselessly is not heroic or worthy of respect, in war the objective is to kill the enemy, not be killed yourself. A paladin who martyrs himself is not thinking strategically, and while it seems like a good idea initially it can only be guaranteed to cause more harm later on; as evil moves to fill the gap that said paladin's sword used to fill.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:05 No.6150393
    >Getting yourself killed uselessly is not heroic or worthy of respect

    But, if people actually thought that, then no one would want to go to war out of the risk of being killed.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:06 No.6150402

    That's a pretty stupid piece of fluff.

    Why would you not want to be like your spider goddess?
    >> ThatXComUtilFag 10/05/09(Mon)23:06 No.6150403
    For you or I, yes it's immoral.

    But given that she comes from a society that operates on such principles but knowingly freed this guy from bondage on the grounds of twisted morality, ie - she cared for him enough to risk it... she's certainly not GOOD, but I wouldn't rate her as evil.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:06 No.6150404
    I don't use Detect Alignment in my games, either. :3 And more classes where it matters, like Paladins, I do cause or culture based morality. For example, Paladins devoted to a deity followed the moral code that their God/dess subscribe to, and Paladins devoted to more general causes are expected to uphold their culture's morals and ethics (in this second situation, the Paladin 'falls' when they are choose to act in ways that violate their instilled morals, thus weaking their faith and confidence in themselves.)
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:07 No.6150411

    Yeah, but consider that if the paladin is forced to do something evil to stop the demon, he goes to the lower planes, and thus provides more fuel for the forces of evil overall. If he dies heroically, he goes to the upper planes, and becomes a soldier for good. The mere act of fighting in the face of an unstoppable enemy, with no hope of winning, is an act of such courage that it qualifies as Exalted, and gives some serious points to the side of good.
    Being a paladin isn't about winning. It's about standing up for a higher purpose. D&D isn't supposed to be GRIMDARK.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:08 No.6150424
    I believe "uselessly" was a key word.

    As in, if you rush an MG bunker screaming "I SHALL PWN YOU" and get shot, that's useless.

    If you rush it with a huge pack of explosives and destroy it in process so others may pass, well that's much less useless
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:09 No.6150433

    Yeah, I never really got that. 4E put it the other way around.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:09 No.6150438
         File1254798581.jpg-(46 KB, 500x580, lich love.jpg)
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    I don't think that loving a person, should disqualify someone as being evil.
    >> ThatXComUtilFag 10/05/09(Mon)23:11 No.6150450
    No, but I also don't think doing something good and reflecting the twisted society you were born and raised on means you're evil.

    She should be given a chance, ya know?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:11 No.6150452
    >As in, if you rush an MG bunker screaming "I SHALL PWN YOU" and get shot, that's useless.

    But if you get enough retards to do that, some of them will survive to take capture the bunker. Those who died didn't die uselessly. Their deaths allowed for the survivors to get the job done.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:12 No.6150470
    >She should be given a chance, ya know?

    Well, the guy she did it for was a paladin. Assuming the pally is being played properly, she'll get her chance.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:13 No.6150472
         File1254798787.png-(362 KB, 549x435, Dilemma.png)
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    >I don't think that loving a person, should disqualify someone as being evil.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:16 No.6150508
    Try and teach her his ways while dragging her along with him.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:16 No.6150510

    The art of war, by Sun Tzu strongly recommends that if the fight is useless, fall back, regroup and bait the enemy so that you retain the upper hand. If you know the actual history of the man himself, he defeated a numerically superior army using cunning and stealth whilst securing his position in history.

    That's not to say asians are the only brilliant strategists, we need not forget they did not use ballista's or other such warmachines and that the rules he suggests can at times be subjective to the situation at hand.

    It barely qualifies, but accepting that there will be casualties in war puts this example on the seesaw. If there is no way to guarantee that the explosives will go off in time without being present or otherwise setting it off prematurely then I suppose it's acceptable.

    Otherwise, at all times, alternative delivery methods and more accurate timing systems should be investigated.

    Realistically, it's the same argument that's led to the prevalence of rifles and tanks over swords and cavalry.
    >> ThatXComUtilFag 10/05/09(Mon)23:18 No.6150529
    It'd be nice if he "saved" her, or more accurately exposed her to another lifestyle and its ways and allowed her to make the informed choiced on how she wanted to live.

    It could end very nicely, with her basically ending up as a secure and content, good person in the world or terrible with her seeing the "good" as being weak.

    It would require some genius roleplaying to make the morality lessons relevant and poignant, as well as positively reinforcing the good behavior.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:20 No.6150543
    >The art of war, by Sun Tzu strongly recommends that if the fight is useless, fall back, regroup and bait the enemy so that you retain the upper hand.

    What counts as a useless fight varies depending on whether you're talking to the commander or the foot soldier.

    Even if the battle is won, and the war comes to a close, someone's dumb ass is still getting punched full of holes.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:32 No.6150675
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    >could care less
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:39 No.6150770
    MAN this thread is getting off topic. How about we discuss what the drow and paladin's sex life would be like?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:42 No.6150800
    Like Secret Journey possibly, but without the paladin being a shota.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:42 No.6150808
    Outside the bedroom, they never speak of it. Theres tension there, plainly visible to anyone whos around, but they never talk about it.

    Then night falls, and the guy who booked the room in the inn next to theres cant get any sleep because of the yelling.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:44 No.6150823

    This is the kind of thinking that made WWI such a clusterfuck. You take out an MG bunker with a tank or at worst a bazooka.

    Human wave attacks only work for Russians and Chinese, and even they're trying to cut back.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:52 No.6150926
    She misses having sisters to help out but enjoys having a penis of her own, ALL to herself.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:02 No.6151031

    Imagine the look on their faces when they come down early next morning and find their dwarven companion nursing an ale with huge bags under his eyes. Without missing a beat he turns to the pair and asks. "Ya have a busy night then?" They sit, drow girl looking a little bashful before he turns to them and say "Hey Drisryna, what does 'vith mak val nek' mean?"

    Drisryna's cheeks turn so red it's actually visible.
    >> No Man 10/06/09(Tue)00:11 No.6151117

    ... seeing as how skin color (ignoring melanin) is mostly 'clear,' blurring things underneath the skin into a single shade, what does this mean for drow? 'Protective camouflage?' 'Lolth did it to piss off Correllon?'

    Actually, regarding the last one: what happened between them to hate each other SOOOOO MUCH?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:11 No.6151119
    this is why crimelords are stupid and rich people are smart, crimelords are stupid evil and polticians are lawful evil.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:16 No.6151172
         File1254802572.jpg-(40 KB, 560x500, hahaha oh wow.jpg)
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    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:18 No.6151198
    rich crimelords, believe it or not, exist
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:20 No.6151238

    I thought that being rich was a prerequisite for qualifying as a crimelord. Because they wouldn't be very lordly if they were poor.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:24 No.6151294
    "Now, my good dwarf, there is a perfectly reasonab-"
    "YOU LIE"
    >> MonkeyToho 10/06/09(Tue)00:26 No.6151310
    rolled 69 = 69

    >'vith mak val nek


    Oh, well played good sir.
    >> No Man 10/06/09(Tue)00:32 No.6151416

    I didn't get it. Can you essplain it to me?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:36 No.6151473
    I dont know either, sound funny.
    >> MonkeyToho 10/06/09(Tue)00:37 No.6151492
         File1254803859.jpg-(409 KB, 799x599, 1248805855264.jpg)
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    rolled 24 = 24


    Well, 'mak val' didn't translate at all, but 'vith' is 'fuck' and 'val' is 'slut.'

    So I can only imagine it's "fuck me you slut" or "fuck me like a slut." Either way, it's quite dirty.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:38 No.6151507
    sounds about right for these two
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:40 No.6151525
         File1254804040.jpg-(146 KB, 800x1434, 1250123127548.jpg)
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    PORN DUMP!!!
    >> No Man 10/06/09(Tue)00:42 No.6151542

    From what language is this?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:42 No.6151547


    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:45 No.6151568

    Here it is actually written out

    Vith uns'aa saph l' nek Usstan tlun dos massive fuer'yon
    >> MonkeyToho 10/06/09(Tue)00:45 No.6151572
         File1254804319.jpg-(136 KB, 600x812, 9ee949e689ce889401e1833b6bd7c1(...).jpg)
    136 KB
    rolled 95 = 95


    Drow. I used an online translator.

    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:46 No.6151579

    Drow isn't a language, its lexicon borrows from elven and undercommon in a manner that doesn't even qualify it as a pidgin tongue.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)00:57 No.6151678

    Only if you're using Drow of the Underdark.

    You can have it as a separate language if such is how it is in your campaign.
    >> !p28NxRuKMo 10/06/09(Tue)01:01 No.6151718
    It sounds like she's a pretty normal teenager.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)01:06 No.6151770

    NRA member detected
    >> Topical 10/06/09(Tue)01:16 No.6151858
    Well, as far as the Drow, she can follow around if she'd like. There's no returning home for her, and fostering an orphan is definitely a good act. Aspire to provide a good image for her, and lead by example. I would hope to instruct her on how a paladin conducts themself, hopefully inspiring her to do the same.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)01:58 No.6152284

    You are mistaken, clearly the one fucking evil in this situation is the Paladin.
    >> God-Emperor of Mankind 10/06/09(Tue)02:02 No.6152329
    The situation is easy. The Paladin teaches her the right way to conduct herself in a more passive and less agressive way, Due to her tender years and infatuation with the paladin this is easy...

    Was this mean to be a challenge?
    >> God-Emperor of Mankind 10/06/09(Tue)02:08 No.6152390
    infact was there even a problem ith the Paladen being in the Matrons harem anyway?

    Paladins can have sex, and infact do quite often. Sex isn't a crime against law, nature, or society. So really Any paladin worth his salts would have fucked the whole lot of em the same number each to be fair and done it to a satisfactory end, as it's expected of them to do their best. Afterwrads a few " don't be a dick and kill shit"s later he'd be on his way to go subdue something that threatens the lives of innocents.

    Seriously... was there a challenge here?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:14 No.6152456

    Another question, how would the matron and the sisters react? Would they just shrug and say "that's one less competitor/threat to my throne" or would they devote every waking moment to hunting their former toy and wayward kin down and making them bleed?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:15 No.6152470
    His name's Alaric, according to the writefaggotry.
    >> Guardsman Redshirt 10/06/09(Tue)02:20 No.6152531
    >infact was there even a problem ith the Paladen being in the Matrons harem anyway?
    The original question (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5954268/) was that the Drow had captured him and forced him to be there sex slave. Of course nothing fall worthy there, but if he neglects his Holy Duty in order to get more hawt sex, and makes no attempt to escape, then it can be argued that he isn't fufillign his role as a paladin.
    >> God-Emperor of Mankind 10/06/09(Tue)02:23 No.6152570
    Ah I see.

    Well then the simple task is to give them the obviously needed holy dickings, and escape. Drow they are, but living people all the same. No need to kill any of them.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:24 No.6152576

    While I doubt they would devote EVERY waking moment, one or more of the sisters would probably try to hunt the girl down, if for no other reason than to impress mommy.
    >> Guardsman Redshirt 10/06/09(Tue)02:26 No.6152604
    Hopefully the paladin will have moved the fuck away by then, discouraging pursuit. Remember, they RAPED HIM.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:30 No.6152641

    He wasn't exactly resisting. Besides, can a man actually be raped by women he finds attractive? I mean, they aren't exactly cuddly but the drow are not exactly bad looking either.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:30 No.6152645
    She finds another young paladin to fill the void in her heart and recapture the exhilarating feeling of first coming to the surface and learning about a person she admires. As this one ages she starts being filled with neuroses. She feels the pain of losing him everyday, even before he has gone. Every morning is a new horror as the lines in his face grow deeper and his hair line recedes by a few follicles. Every time she sees a single hair fall of his head she pictures a grain of sand in an hourglass counting down the moment of his death. Even the most joyful times are bittersweet. She can't help but dwell on the nagging fact that soon she will be alone and the joy will be only a memory.
    After her new companion passes she tells her self she will never again become emotionally invested in someone who's time is so brief. All too soon though, she finds her self enthralled and infatuated with another young crusader and restarts the tortuous cycle.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:32 No.6152666
    Can a woman actually be raped by a man she finds attractive?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:32 No.6152677
    magic boner drugs
    >> Guardsman Redshirt 10/06/09(Tue)02:38 No.6152740
    Bound and gagged, man, bound and gagged.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:39 No.6152755
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:41 No.6152771

    and that's how the world got filled with half-drow clerics of Lathander.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:50 No.6152851
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)03:08 No.6153022
    If this continued on for long enough I am sure people would forget her origin and she would become some sort of a legend. Like a mystical lady of the lake type figure who's presence marks her companion as destined to be a great hero. When in reality there is no epic destiny to it, she just falls for good guys who do the right thing. They become heroes because all she has experienced in her long life makes her a good mentor.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)03:11 No.6153050
    Uriu jaluss llaar tlus feir tangis' 'zil decided ulu kl'ae tangis' alu ssinssrin ulu xun lor mzild saph?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)03:21 No.6153140
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    Usstan kyorl vel'bol dos xunus gaer
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)04:32 No.6153789
    I think that turned out to be a bit of a boner killer for this thread.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)07:15 No.6155147
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)11:38 No.6157041
    Actually, that's the only arousing thing in this part of the story.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)12:52 No.6157732
    Dos fridj noamuth l' nibele.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:00 No.6157809
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    >implying men can be raped.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:01 No.6157828
         File1254848500.jpg-(58 KB, 800x335, old deliverance 4344.jpg)
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    >>6157809 Implying that they can't.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:02 No.6157840
    >implying that men ar- SQUEEEEEE! SQUEEEE!
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:02 No.6157842
    If you ever get into prison do that funny implying thing. I'm positive all the nice boys will want to be friends with you.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:04 No.6157859
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    >Implying that being raped by a filthy hick and being raped by gorgeous dark elf women are equally traumatizing
    >> Sergeant Alexandros II 10/06/09(Tue)13:06 No.6157878
    >implying that certain implications might or might not have been implied by implying implications
    >implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying


    Back to the Drow porn, please.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:07 No.6157879

    implying that rape isn't traumatizing no matter what...
    >> Guardsman Terry 10/06/09(Tue)13:09 No.6157900
    Yeah, someone should rip Drowtales.com's Daydream section.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:10 No.6157912
    What, again? Check /rs/
    >> Guardsman Terry 10/06/09(Tue)13:11 No.6157927
    Sadly, the ones I found are up to 2008 or something.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:11 No.6157934
    That's sort of definitional, though; if it's not traumatizing it's not rape, it's a pleasant suprise.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:12 No.6157941
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    Ok then, let's say hypothetically you were in the Paladin's position. You were taken prisoner by a bunch of beautiful women and "forced" to have sex with them.

    When you eventually escaped, could you honestly say you would be traumatized by the whole thing?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:14 No.6157957

    Given that it would involve unconsented S&M, yes.
    >> helpful /co/mrade 10/06/09(Tue)13:14 No.6157969
    You're assuming we would've tried to escape.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:14 No.6157970
    It would be traumatic in the sense that your vows / oaths may have been unwillingly violated.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:15 No.6157973
    Its stupid to think rape that goes with your preference is just as bad as rape that goes against your preference.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:16 No.6157982

    No you would try to escape once the piercings and strap-ons came out.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:16 No.6157985
    People with Vow of Chastity can ONLY have sex by being raped, so raping them (in line with their preferences, obviously) is showing kindness.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:16 No.6157988
    Friction burns.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:16 No.6157991
    In terms of Unknown Armies' sanity meters, it might be a hit against either Self or Helplessness.

    Adapt to your own system's sanity rules.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:17 No.6157995

    Yes. Because I was forced into something I didn't want to do. I should have been able to protect myself. I am a failure as a man.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:18 No.6158008
    So a gay guy that's raped by a guy is happier (or less traumatized) then if it's raped by a woman?

    What the fuck are you smoking?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:19 No.6158019
    considering some of the things drow are prone to to to sex slave surfacers, a little...
    if it was vanilla or even 4chan type sex, I'd probably take it in stride though
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:19 No.6158024
    If it was perfectly in line with your preferences, you would have willingly had the sex, as long as you were actually in a mental state allowing you to actually make that decision; ergo all rape is either against some preference, or performed in a situation where consent may not be given.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:19 No.6158025
    >implying gay people are an "it"
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:20 No.6158038
    There is more to preference than liking guys versus liking girls.

    For example, most people have a preference for not being raped.
    >> helpful /co/mrade 10/06/09(Tue)13:20 No.6158041
    Well yes, at that point I would've high-tailed it out of there. But if this is regular group orgy we're talking about with a Drow matron and her nympho daughters, you can bet your ass I wouldn't be trying to escape anytime soon.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:21 No.6158049
    >implying faggots are people
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:21 No.6158052
    > regular group orgy
    > Drow
    Even if it isn't freaky yet, you know it's going to get freaky
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:21 No.6158053

    Rape is sex in which someone is unwilling. Obviously, someone who would otherwise consent, but really has to go to work, is going to be less traumatic than, I don't know, being raped by gigantic carnivorous worms coming from your zombified grandfather's crotch. This should be pretty obvious.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:21 No.6158054
    The definition of "rape" being what it is, EVERYONE has a preference to not be raped.

    Saying you can like rape is like saying you enjoy things which are unenjoyable to you.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:22 No.6158064
    You can consent to things you hate, and refuse things you adore. This is pretty simple stuff.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:22 No.6158065
    Unless grandfather zombie crotch worms are your fetish, obviously.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:23 No.6158070
    >implying implications
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:23 No.6158077
    Technically you could have a preference for having sex while in a state where you are not capable of giving or denying consent; that would still be rape.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:24 No.6158081
    You can't like things which you don't like (at least not at the same time, though tastes can change over time).

    Likewise, you can't ENJOY rape.
    >> helpful /co/mrade 10/06/09(Tue)13:24 No.6158088
    Then I stay until they do get freaky. Maybe a little after, depending on what "freaky" implies...
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:25 No.6158100
    One can give consent for something to be done to their body when they are unconscious. Just like how you can consent to have a medical procedure performed on you after you're knocked out, so can you consent before hand in the situation you described.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:25 No.6158102

    What if a female paladin god captured by orcs, she's getting sex, so why would it be traumatizing?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:27 No.6158131
    >implications implied, implied the implicater and implied the implications of implicating implicationism.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:28 No.6158139

    The technical term when it's many women and one man is "reverse gang bang." Orgy implies 6 or more people and a more even distribution of the sexes.
    >> Guardsman Terry 10/06/09(Tue)13:29 No.6158154
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:29 No.6158161
    Seeing as how the Paladin in our story was chained to a bed, I don't think a simple "it's getting too freaky ladies, I'm our of here" would suffice.
    >> helpful /co/mrade 10/06/09(Tue)13:29 No.6158162
    Duly noted.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:30 No.6158175
    which is where our greedy little nympho rescuer comes in...
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:30 No.6158176
    Thread is autosaging, start new one for your purposes.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:54 No.6158492
    New thread

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