I liked the other thread's OP picture better.

>>6149075

Any new developments on the mater from the last thread?

PIMP HER 4 GOLDZ

>>6149092

An interesting discussion of what might happen if the Paladin asks the drow girl to marry him once they have been together for a while.

> She's not evil, he checked
Invasion of privacy, paladin falls.

>>6149109

>>6149109
It's within the Paladin's right to check if she's evil or not. Paladin stays.

Later, they walk through a forest and the Paladin snags his foot on a tree root.

Paladin falls.

>>6149109
Invasion of privacy is a lawful act, not an evil one.

>>6149103
You mean, 'Have her lure people into an alley, beat them, then steal their golds before she leads me into a different alley for a quickie."

>>6149126

In a Feudal system, privacy is a priveledge, not a right.
Motion denied!

just expect another long thread about wither being selfish, amoral and prone to violence constitutes as evil in d&d

now, if she was a PC and not an NPC people probably wouldn't even be making the arguement

>She's not evil.

>She's just selfish, amoral, used to taking what she wants when she wants it, facing no consequences for doing so and is prone to violent acts against people who anger her.

>>6149109
You don't know a fucking thing about the paladin code as written, and are probably convinced the bullshit /tg/ spews about paladins falling are actually in the rule book. Get the fuck out, now, and educate yourself.

>>6149143

Agreed, that describe EVERY SINGLE PC CN ROGUE EVER.

The paladin should continue traveling with her, taking every opportunity to show her acts of kindness and love and to demonstrate his faith, thereby broadening her understanding of his teachings and bringing her around to his way of thinking.

>>6149143
really you should think of what the ultimate end is to being selfish, amoral and prone to violence but i think that led to a clusterfuck in the last thread too

>>6149154
Sorry to disappoint, but that's just super duper neutral. "Evil" as an alignment is someone who goes out of their way to obstruct and hurt others for teh lulz. Or for a greater purpose which will in turn be an even greater evil, again for teh lulz.

Lead by example.

Don't directly disagree with her without sound, Paladin-esque reason. Simply walk the path of the Paladin and let her follow. It will likely subdue her into a good alignment, eventually.

>>6149184
>subdue her into a good alignment

Also, you could start withholding the lawful good dickings, instead giving them out as a reward for good behavior.

>>6149143
>>6149154

Dammit, OP, at least try to justify her behavior so she doesn't sound evil. Did you already forget what happened in the last thread?

>>6149154
Yeah, she's just a woman.

>>6149207

>selfish, amoral, used to taking what she wants when she wants it, facing no consequences for doing so and is prone to violent acts against people who anger her.
>not evil

>>6149201

Potentially a good idea, but she might rebel. The key is to let her choose a less good-resistant path, not be forced into it.

>>6149180

Sorry to disappoint, but you're just retarded. How realistic do you think "someone who goes out of their way to obstruct and hurt others for teh lulz" is? There's a difference between being evil and being hurfhdurfh i kil u becaz i evul lol lol

> "Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.

>People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships.

THEY AREN'T FUCKING INNOCENT IF THEY'RE PISSING HER OFF. THIS IS WHY SHE'S NEUTRAL.

>>6149174
yea eventually becoming a paladin herself, then she can become somebodies weaboo self-insert mary sue character

>>6149075
Spank her when she's bad and fuck her when she is good.

>>6149224
To be worth the Evil alignment, you have to be unredeemable and babykillng.

>>6149224
>>6149154

The OP is only saying that she's chaotic and out for her own. I.E. Chaotic-Neutral.

>>6149249
>How realistic do you think
Sorry, what was that? These giant ants were making too much noise cooking in my Fireball spells, let me set down my magic flying carpet so I can hear you better.

We should get back on that marriage discussion.
"Will you marry me?"
"Oh a ring! Whats 'marry'?"

>>6149260
this could backfire spectacularly

rolled 90 = 90

Use her sex drive to tame here Chaotic tendencies.

5+ Chaotic, Evil, or Selfish infractions - Handjob, no sex

4 Chaotic, Evil, or Selfish infractions or less - Vanilla sex, 2 rounds max

3 Chaotic, Evil, or Selfish infractions or less - Fetish

2 Chaotic, Evil, or Selfish infractions or less - Hard Fetish, 4 rounds max


No infractions, 2+ Good, Lawful, or Selfless actions - Holy dickings all night long, anything goes

rolled 91 = 91

>>6149289


* 3 rounds max

>>6149180
>"Evil" as an alignment is someone who goes out of their way to obstruct and hurt others for teh lulz

No.

A crime boss who has a person killed and his family sold into slavery because he didn't pay back the debt on time is evil. He is not doing this for "teh lulz" or any sadistic desire. He's doing it because he wants his god damned money.

The crime lord is a selfish, amoral person used to taking what he wants when he wants it and facing no consequences for doing so. He also has a tendency to engage in violent acts against people who anger him.

>>6149279

That could also backfire spectacularly.

"Wait what?! Bind myself to a man permanently? What a ridiculous concept. Who would possibly do something like that?

Wait........All the surface races?"

>>6149279
I'm pretty sure drow have marriage (well, sex slavery), they're probably just not too familiar with the whole "one man per woman" limit.

>>6149281

How?

>>6149325
Not even all humans do that.

WHEN ARE WE STATING THIS PALADIN AND DROW

>>6149338
"You have been bad"
*Spank*
"OOOHHHHH! HARDER"
"What? No!"
"You need me to be bad first? I'LL GO START SOME FIRES THEN."

>>6149320
He's not "amoral", retard, he's "immoral" by virtue of being a fucking crime lord.

>>6149277

You're digging yourself an "I'm retarded" hole, and if you keep it up much longer you won't be able to climb back out.

>>6149359

... while it may sorta defeat the original purpose of trying to reform her, it'd still be fun. So I still don't really see a problem.

>>6149320
If he did only want his god damned money, he wouldn't do that. He would find another way to get his god damned money that certainly drives a point home, but doesn't damn that whole family of potentially future money-bringers to a life with no future. A smart businessman who wants nothing more than his god damned money recognizes that selling employees into slavery because they failed to meet a quota one month is a very short-sighted strategy. Someone who just wants his god damned money is Neutral.

Now, someone who will go well out of their way to instill fear in those who pledge loyalty to them, to ensure that their rule is concrete and to make certain that no one will dare failing them, is Evil. To them, the god damned money is a means to the end of power and control.

>>6149368

... someone is amoral when they have no morals. It's used to describe people who don't have a problem with things like killing and stealing.

You know, things most people have a moral prohibition against, but, if someone doesn't have any morals, the only thing keeping that person from engaging in said activities is the perceived risk.

>>6149426
And "immoral" is when they have morals, but deliberately ignore them.

Sandy kills the Paladin being corrupted by the drow. She also kills the drow for being evil.

>>6149352

Seconded. Stat them. Preferably in 3.5 or Pathfinder.

>>6149392

Sometimes the effort of the other ways to get your god damn money aren't worth it; especially if it becomes known that you NEVER kill anyone who has the POTENTIAL to be an asset. Why would people need to pay up more than they need, say, their kidneys, if you aren't going to do worse to them than the lengths they will have to go to get you your god damn money would?
Sometimes killing a family will ensure that you get your god damn money from other people, thereby stabilizing and perhaps enhancing your income.
Evil != stupid.

>>6149392
>doesn't damn that whole family of potentially future money-bringers to a life with no future.

Actually, there's a good chance he'd get more out of the family by selling them into slavery than by leaving them alive. The fact that the man couldn't repay his debt in the first place means that they weren't bringing in a lot of money beforehand.

>A smart businessman who wants nothing more than his god damned money recognizes that selling employees

They weren't employees.

If she ain't fucking evil, what is?

Rapin' paladins is fucking evil.

>>6149462
Fucking this.

>>6149392

So what about those CEOs who brutally assraped their company and employees retirement funds?

They weren't doing it because they wanted the economy to collapse. They just wanted their god damned money, but they didn't care who they had to hurt to get it.

From old thread, a quandry about law and chaos.
>If the law says women shall be veiled and topless in public on sundays, then by god the PCs chicks had better stay inside on sunday if they have objections.
This actually raises the question of what is The Law, and by extension where true Authority rests in society. Say this is The Law as proposed by the Emperor of Whatever, but the vast majority of the people disagree with it, certain philosophies woudl say that the will of the people is what the true law should be, and a figure in power trying to override the will of the people is by its very nature unlawful, thus our supposed "law," is in fact unlawful.

What does the elemental plane of law actually say?

>>6149462
...and Sandwich falls for not only killing one of her own kind, but killing a non-evil character with no justification in doing so.

I really do think that the good, paladin-y, but not quite lawful thing to do here would be to enter into a loving relationship with the poor girl and be the best example of righteousness one could be. Share your beliefs with her, protect and nurture her, and help her discover herself. She's young and all she knows is the horrible evils of drow society, show her that there's a better way and that you care about her.

Again, when being LG, I tend to err on the side of good versus lawful.

>>6149513

It says "Alignments are gay and should be determined by the character's actions, not the other way around"

>>6149479
you actually bring up a very good point

she sure did participate in raping the paladin or was at least heavily compliant with the act of raping

but she did set him free so...

>>6149506

>In it for self regardless of consequences to others

This is evil people, get used to it.

>>6149554
>when being LG, I tend to err on the side of good versus lawful.
As paladins should. Otherwise, you risk turning into a Knight Templar.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightTemplar

>>6149559

Well, that's what it SHOULD say.

>>6149589

Damn you tvtropes!

You won't get me this time!

>>6149594

The Law refers to a set of internal principles that guide the character's actions. This could include obedience to the law of the land, but this isn't necessarily the case.

Let's say we have a LG paladin who has a thing against slavery, but he's in a country where slavery is both legal and widely practiced. The paladin would still be LG if he decided to break the law in an attempt to free the slaves.

>>6149661
So if we accept that The Law can have different meanings everywhere you go and that Lawful is a broad alignment type, can we do the same with Evil and Neutral and GET ON THE FUCKIGN JOB WITH STATING THESE FOLKS?

>>6149707

No, because good, neutral, and evil are clearly defined.

Good: I help people
Evil: I hurt people
Neutral: I don't really hurt or help people / I do a bit of both, without going to an extreme

The only gray area is with theft, which seems to be repeatedly ignored as causing harm.

>>6149603
>:D

It's not so much Knight Templar that you have to watch out for. It's Lawful Stupid.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulStupidChaoticStupid

THIS is far more dangerous. But the two are closely related.

Hey, allow me to fucking fix the OP's post so it doesn't bring up the fail of the D&D alignment system.

>start edit
A continuation of the Hypothetical situation thread from a few weeks ago.

The Paladin is now free from the sex-crazed drow matron and her nympho daughters. The youngest daughter was the equivalent of a teenager, he was her first and now she's infatuated with him (hooray for teenage hormones). So she helped him escape.

Now the Paladin is in a bit of a conundrum. He now has an adolescent drow rogue following him around.
A decent judge of character due to being a hard travelin' holy hero type, he feels that this drow is redeemable.
However, she is still very much a drow in mannerisms.
>end edit

>>6149756

But everyone fucking hurts people and helps people.

I asked my girlfriend if she would roleplay this out with me.

I haven't gotten a no yet.

>>6149768

Uguu~

>Good: I help people
>Evil: I hurt people
>Neutral: I don't really hurt or help people / I do a bit of >both, without going to an extreme

>The only gray area is with theft, which seems to be >repeatedly ignored as causing harm.

Smite Evil hurts people, ergo pallys are evil.

That's what you're saying, right?

OP's description of "neutral" fails miserably.

>amoral
>takes what she wants
>acts as she pleases without regards for others

That's evil, bro. Neutral Evil.

>>6149786

You're gonna have her put on blackface?

>>6149756
>Good: I help people
>Evil: I hurt people

Smite Evil hurts people, ergo pallys are evil.

That's what you're saying, right?

Above the roaring fires that now consumed her birthplace, she heard a scream. She felt a prick of concern for her blood family. She did not care for them much but could not deny that she hoped that was a servant and not one of them.

She stood stock still as the fire ran through her house like a hungry snake. Shadowy figures emerged from crackling and crumbling stone archways, away from the flames and off into the dark. From this distance, it was hard to tell.

She felt a soft hand fall on her shoulder.

'I'm sorry it had come to this.'

She felt a venomous anger rise in her belly. Who was this former slave to touch her without permission? She felt herself reach for the curved knife she kept near her waist. But before she could yank the dagger from its sheath a more equal, and powerful feeling gripped her.

She fell to her knees and started to sob.

'You might have killed them all Paladin! They might not have been much to you or me but they were still my family!'

He watched the small shuddering form carefully as it lay in a piteous state on the stone cavern floor, his hand still tight on the pommel of the sword. This one had been last, and had taken particular joy in her duty.

But she showed a healthy amount of hesitance, a subconcious respect born out of her innocence for the slave she had thrust herself upon. She was still young, relatively, and her tears for the family who had planned to use her as nothing more than a tool proved that perhaps there was still a chance she could be saved from her upbringing.

He removed his other hand from his sword to place both upon her heaving shoulders. While she wept, he took the time to read her.

First he was confused, for there were two readings. One was like the mist upon a dark moor or the fog that falls upon the recent dead. This could be removed, but not without work. And another... not yet formed. But, white. Pure, brilliant, white.

He recoiled for a second as he realised what lay within. She did not notice as he withdrew in shock, still free to weep.

She finally regained control of herself. As she raised herself to her feet she expected to see a self amused smirk or an irritating smile upon the face of the paladin, having caught her in a moment of weakness.

Instead she found him non-judgemental. He was thinking about something but his worry was plain. He did not care for the suffering of others, even if they had made him suffer before, he just wanted to see her... happy? A new feeling crept up in her, one she had not felt before.

She stepped forward as if to say something but stumbled, her legs still weak. She cursed herself for revealing a second moment of weakness. But took the hand he offered with a gentle grip as he pulled her back up.

'Let's get you out of this place.'

She could find no reason to deny him. She held tightly onto him as he led her away.

>>6149823

It's ok to hurt evil people.

Ok, here's what we've got so far I guess:

He takes her with him, in hopes to redeem her and turn to the light. She is somewhere around:

[] Chaotic
[] Neutral
[] Evil

(pick two different)

So they travel together and he does what he always does (helping, smiting, behaving) and does his best to don't let her do anything evil.

She eventually sees that gratitude is something heartwarming and worth fighting for. That trust is something not found among chaotic evil dickfaces. That true love that she feels can't be anything but good.

So she snaps, grows out of shenanigans and turns to the light side, maybe not instantly, but inevitably. While obviously NOT being liked by other people, paladin protects her from xenohating ignorants, because DURR, he's a white knight.

So she eventually becomes if not lawful, then at least neutral good. And to be even closer, to understand paladin better, she becomes a cleric of his deity.

Afterwards they don't argue much and live a happy smiting life, purging undead and helping old people with dangerous tasks, earning delicious rewards.

You know what, fuck the "is she neutral, is she evil" argument, she's a young Drow who may not have fully been indoctrinated into the CE Drow society, shouldn't the Paladin still try to redeem her and turn her into a LG benefit to society?

HEY GUYS, REMEMBER WHEN ALIGNMENT WAS AN AFTER-THE-FACT DETAIL YOU FIGURED OUT AFTER DEVELOPING YOUR CHARACTER AND NOT SOMETHING THAT DICTATED HOW YOU WROTE THEM?

NEITHER DO I.

>>6149836
>>6149826
DAAAAAWWWW

>>6149799
So evil might be harmless ?

>>6149840
Hitler is evil, it is OK to kill Hitler.
Stalin is evil, it is OK to kill Stalin.
Thatcher is evil, it is OK to kill Thatcher.
Mao is evil, it is OK to kill Mao.
Putin is evil, it is OK to kill Putin.
Bin Laden is evil, it is OK to kill Bin Laden.
Hugo Chaves

Good and evil are all too often just a point of view.

A better description of good and evil from Night Watch book:

Good: helps others, sacrificing own needs
Evil: uses others to fill own needs

THIS THREAD NEEDS MOAR HOT DROW FEMALES PICS

>>6149896
do them dark elves count?

>>6149842
I like this, I'm DAWWWing inside.

>>6149842
And after 30 years, when he's dead and she's still adolescent, what happens ?

>>6149903

YES

>>6149851

Oh, definitely.

As a paladin he should use this as an opportunity to reform her.

>>6149863

Yeah.

Not every evil person is going to a threat to society. Some might even be beneficial to society at large. Pic related.

>>6149889
>Good and evil are all too often just a point of view.

Not in D&D

But, then again, the D&D alignment system is pretty dumb.

>>6149826
>>6149836
I enjoyed immensely. +1 internets for you.

>>6149895
I don't think it's about needs. At most, sacrifice of one's needs is a lawful thing, meeting one's needs is chaotic, but evil and good are not relevant.

>>6149912
I was thinking about it. We assume that he's a human right?

If so, well... he dies and she lives, spreading Light among Darkness, with him in her heart, always. She has hard times, sometimes people don't want her help, because she is a drow. But she finds friends that understand her and realises that race does not make you a certain person. Other people do.

She will always remember him, for he made her see the good side of life and find her inner peace.

>>6149912
I think they grow at the same rate as humans, but they stay in their prime for much, much longer than we do.

Also, he's a paladin in the service of a good deity, he might prove himself to be useful and allowed to remain living for a longer than normal period. It wouldn't be the first time it has happened.

>>6149931
Directly killing tens of thousands and unleashing a demon lord who creates a plague of undeath... helpful, sure.

>>6149863

Yup. Evil creatures can surrender and be taken prisoner, at which point they are considered harmless. A paladin will not challenge tribe of orcs who moved into the area and haven't done anything wrong, and he will not slay any being that has surrendered. He will not mistreat prisoners beyond simple inconvenience, and he will, if possible, try to redeem any villains he can.

This is all explained in chapter 1 of BoED.

So are these two just going to stay nameless or are we going to give them names.

>>6149941
Good and evil are as much a point of view than the wall of the faithless. That's the gods dickery.

>>6149931

And now I don't know the character, but what about situations when you have to sacrifice few innocent people that do not agree to save millions, or even whole world?

You are basically doing something horribly evil and very good at the same time.

If a D&D paladin comes to such situation, sacrificing will make him fall and letting millions die will make him fall.

That's fucked up

>How should the Paladin handle this situation?

Reform school.

>>6149993
Reminds me of Warcraft 3 when Arthas burn a large village down because the townsfolk have all been infected with a zombie virus that will kill them all anyway.

>>6149548
A couple things here.

Sandy is a dwarfmaid. And what would killing a another drow have anything to do with falling?
The drow is obviously evil. Kidnapping and raping a pally. Amoral. Aggressive. Evil.
The paladin is willfully traveling with an evil aligned drow. He also failed his detect evil check. Thus either he is fallen and evil or corrupted by the drow. Either way he deserves death.

Won't she turn into a drider for pissing off Lolth?

>>6149993

"Some good characters might view a situation where an evil act is required to avert a catastrophic evil as a form of martyrdom: “I can save a thousand innocent lives by sacrificing my purity.” For some, that is a sacrifice worth making, just as they would not hesitate to sacrifice their lives for the same cause. After all, it would simply be selfish to let innocents die so a character can hang on to her exalted feats. Unfortunately, this view is ultimately misguided. This line of thinking treats the purity of the good character’s soul as a commodity (like her exalted feats) that she can just give up or sacrifice like any other possession. In fact, when an otherwise good character decides to commit an evil act, the effects are larger than the individual character. What the character sees as a personal sacrifice is actually a shift in the universal balance of power between good and evil, in evil’s favor. The consequences of that single evil act, no matter how small, extend far beyond the single act and involve a loss to more than just the character doing the deed. Thus, it is not a personal sacrifice, but a concession to evil, and thus unconscionable."

>>6149959
Why would something like aging apply to an adventurer anyway? With all the magical doodads the typical example of said group runs across, halting or reversing the aging process is probably the least of the physics/biology/insertscienceofyourchoicehere raping bullshit they can pull off.

>>6149966
>unleashing a demon lord who creates a plague of undeath

Rance didn't unleash Xavier, the first gourd fell by accident and the rest were collected by secret agents directly under the control of Xavier. The curse of undeath youkai was released by Xavier.

Rance solved both of those problems... while killing and raping countless people.

>>6149974
I didn't read much of the fluff of that book, because it looks retarded. Sparing the surrendering goblin chief and then giving to the next human court is hypocrisy.

>>6149993

No, that's a fucked up viewpoint. That's the way a DM who wants to see the Paladin fall would respond.

In one case, the Paladin is saving those who are in immediate need. On the other, he is sacrificing a few to save many. Both are good acts.
I would honestly say that saving more people by sacrificing a few would be the closer to an "evil" act, depending on the Paladin's code and tenets of his religion. Accepting defeat by sacrificing a few means you've given up on finding another way.
After all, you can always save those in front of you now, and then prevent further loss later on.

Yes, you can cite extreme situations wherein there is no choice but to sacrifice a few, or sacrifice many, but if the Paladin is truly doing his best to do the right thing in keeping with his code and religion, he should never be forced to fall by GM dickery.

This is why DMs are shitty. Two opposed choices can both be good.

>>6150043

In all the 3e splatbooks I've read there I have seen nothing that can grant longevity, except in the final level of certain prestige classes (an evil one comes to mind), and some cases where one must give up all class levels.

>>6150058
The accident wouldn't have occurred in the first place without Rance being there, and was hastened whenever Rance defeated another kingdom.

FIND DRIZZT, ASK FOR TIPS.

>>6150041
This, right here, is why DnD alignment is fucked up.

>>6149976

Their names are Herp and Derp. Don't worry about which is which, they're interchangeable.

>>6150058
>>6150094
What game are you two talking about?

>>6150117
ur a faget

Isn't there an ability that let's a Paladin directly speak with their god?

I mean, if you're supposed to be the living embodiment of your God's will (and sword) shouldn't you be one speaking terms?

If a difficult situation pops up, like what to do with a evil drow rogue following you around (who is Evil by how the op described her, take your subjective good/evil elsewhere), confer with your almighty and ask for advice.

>>6150090
That doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means that they aren't particularly relevant to the average DnD campaign. There's probably all sorts of artifacts and spells that have no direct adventuring related use that don't get mentioned either.

>>6150059

>Sparing the surrendering goblin chief and then giving to the next human court is hypocrisy.

"This leads good characters (especially lawful good characters) into a dilemma: Is it wrong to turn a prisoner over to legitimate authorities knowing that the prisoner will be tortured and abused in captivity? Fortunately, the answer is straightforward, if sometimes difficult to implement. Yes, delivering a person over to be tortured, even if the person is thoroughly evil and the torturers are a legitimate authority, is evil. How to avoid being put in that position is a more difficult question, and one that depends greatly on the circumstances. " -BoED page 11 (fuck yeah OCR)

It also mentions that paladins should avoid being the judge and executioner whenever possible, instead allowing the proper authorities to mete out punishment. While torture is unequivocally evil in D&D, sentencing an evil creature to death is not, unless they have not committed a crime that warrants it. In that case, it's often a case of court corruption, which the book encourages paladins to expose.

>>6150094
>The accident wouldn't have occurred in the first place without Rance being there,

The accident wouldn't have occurred if the guy hand't invited Rance to be his general.

In the end, an accident is still an accident and no one is at fault for Xavier being released.

>was hastened whenever Rance defeated another kingdom.

That's not entirely accurate, because not all countries were in possession of a gourd. Also, if you take too long to conquer the gourd possessing countries, Xavier's secret agents will steal the gourds without the country being conquered. Additionally, Rance wasn't aware that his conquests were fueling the newly awoken demon, and when Rance did find out he actively worked to defeat Xavier - even refusing Xavier's offer to make him into an apostle.

Don't get me wrong, Rance was definitely evil, but he's not at fault for Xavier's release.

>>6150079
I'm speaking of situation when you can't do anything. When you have to pick one way or the other.

If you sacrifice people, you will be killing innocents.
If you save people, you will cooperate in killing millions.

Both are quite damn evil if you ask me. That's why alighment system fails.

>>6150164

Elves don't brush their teeth, they chew sticks which somehow does something similar. The 3e splatbooks are full of that stuff. Can you honestly say that's something that would be relevant at any point in an adventurer's career?

>>6149976

Her: Drisryna

Him: Elan

>>6149976
I guess they are Paladin and Drow-chan.

WE NEED DRAWFAGS HERE

>>6150038

Not the poster of this, but requesting answer to this question as well.

>>6150203

The sticks are made of stuff similar you use in toothpaste, duh.

Not terrible interesting.

>>6150203

Clean teeth might become important for making diplomacy rolls.

>>6150035
Amoral =/= Immoral

Immoral would be evil, Amoral would be neutral.

You can do bad things and not be evil, as much as you can do good things and not be bad.

>>6150203
Oh really? Where's this mentioned? As for your question, depends on the campaign. Probably not though. They did mention potions of longevity or something like that in some old sourcebook however. I think it was for 2nd edition. The main reason why they wouldn't be mentioned is the average campaign wouldn't last long enough for aging to be an issue. Same reason why age/aging doesn't receive much attention in general for the most part.

>>6150193

Well, yes, the alignment system is a bit unruly, but the situation you're describing is still solvable for a paladin.

What you're describing is too nonspecific. In a specific situation, even if it seems generic on paper, there is a way out which doesn't involve willfully committing an evil act.

For example, if there's a sorcerer about to summon some deific evil while his minions on the other side of the room are about to kill innocents, each choice to either kill the Sorc before he can finish or ignoring him to save the others, is a good act. He is actively pursuing a good action, even if it bears other consequences, which the Paladin will have to resolve afterward.

But the act of making that choice isn't in and of itself evil.

>>6149426
> amoral. It's used to describe people who don't have a problem with things like killing and stealing.

I don't think you know how to use that word...
Amoral means that they have no morals, yes. But that means that since most every person is at least introduced as a child to morals (which aren't necessarily "good-aligned" morals; some societies taught/teach that it was okay to sacrifice other innocent human beings, after all.) Therefore, it's impossible for any "human-intelligence" creature with linguistic ability and/or a symbol capacity to be amoral.

To be immoral is to go against what you were taught was right.

>>6150272
I was thinking of something more radical.

Lets say an insanely powerful demon appears before unexperienced paladin and puts him in such situation. Demon is interested in killing those very people, but can't reach them somehow. Paladin however can. If he won't, demon will destroy a city.

>>6150109

>DnD alignment is fucked up.

Um, duh? DnD has, as its basic premise, an objective black-and-white alignment system. The real world doesn't. As such, what we see as grey areas have to be black-and-white.

Personally I see it this way: If you have the choice to save billions of people by murdering a baby and using its blood to perform a ritual that will prevent some catastrophe, then it means you had the power to save those people. When you do something so despicable, you give all that power over to evil, which now has the power to kill those people, plus the power you gave it when you killed that baby. In the short term, good wins, but on the whole you've just made evil more powerful as a whole. Nice job breaking it, hero.

>>6150245
When you pair it with what can be construed as stealing and violence when she doesn't get her way, I would say she is evil.

>>6149075
I redirect your attention to the actual question, /tg/.
Yes, yes, I know we like to bicker and argue, but I for one would like to see where this goes. Now, if we can drop the debate on morality because it's view is entirely perspective-based and continue?
Thank you.

>>6150292
>To be immoral is to go against what you were taught was right.

By this this reasoning the drow girl is immoral for releasing the paladin and following him around when she should be scheming to become the top bitch of the Underdark.

>>6150248

Races of the Wild, page 8.

I solve the problem by simply flat-out denying the players the right to use alignment. No universal morality; use fucking common sense or get our of my fucking game.

>>6150313
It was answered already. See
>>6149954
>>6149842
>>6149836
>>6149826

>>6150305

Paladin must sacrifice himself in the pursuit of stopping the demon. That's the whole point of being a paladin, sacrificing your own well being to protect others.

Either the divines will grant you the strength and fortune to overcome this foe, or you shall die in your battle to protect others from harm.
Perhaps you will even buy enough time for the others to escape.

If a GM put me in that kind of a no-win situation because he's being a dick, I'm going to do the right thing, the paladin thing, even and especially if it means sacrificing myself for the well being of others.

>>6150336
You sir, are a reasonable GM. Wish every single one was like that.

>Now, if we can drop the debate on morality because it's view is entirely perspective-based and continue?

Morality isn't perspective based in D&D. Yes, it's stupid, but assuming the OP is playing in a traditional D&D setting (and there's been nothing in his post to indicate that this isn't the case) that's the way the cookie crumbles.

As for the initial question
>How should the Paladin handle this situation?

The obvious answer is that he should attempt to reform her, or at least teach her a bit of self-restraint.

>>6150216
3E MM says driders are drow who failed a test of Lolth that high-level (14th?) drow are forced to undergo

>>6150336

This is what should be done, or at the very least things like Detect [Alignment] should be left out.

>>6150041
Next time someone goes up for 'martyrdom' I'm gonna call them a terrorist, and a fool.

Getting yourself killed uselessly is not heroic or worthy of respect, in war the objective is to kill the enemy, not be killed yourself. A paladin who martyrs himself is not thinking strategically, and while it seems like a good idea initially it can only be guaranteed to cause more harm later on; as evil moves to fill the gap that said paladin's sword used to fill.

>>6150375
>Getting yourself killed uselessly is not heroic or worthy of respect

But, if people actually thought that, then no one would want to go to war out of the risk of being killed.

>>6150372

That's a pretty stupid piece of fluff.

Why would you not want to be like your spider goddess?

>>6150313
For you or I, yes it's immoral.

But given that she comes from a society that operates on such principles but knowingly freed this guy from bondage on the grounds of twisted morality, ie - she cared for him enough to risk it... she's certainly not GOOD, but I wouldn't rate her as evil.

>>6150373
I don't use Detect Alignment in my games, either. :3 And more classes where it matters, like Paladins, I do cause or culture based morality. For example, Paladins devoted to a deity followed the moral code that their God/dess subscribe to, and Paladins devoted to more general causes are expected to uphold their culture's morals and ethics (in this second situation, the Paladin 'falls' when they are choose to act in ways that violate their instilled morals, thus weaking their faith and confidence in themselves.)

>>6150375

Yeah, but consider that if the paladin is forced to do something evil to stop the demon, he goes to the lower planes, and thus provides more fuel for the forces of evil overall. If he dies heroically, he goes to the upper planes, and becomes a soldier for good. The mere act of fighting in the face of an unstoppable enemy, with no hope of winning, is an act of such courage that it qualifies as Exalted, and gives some serious points to the side of good.
Being a paladin isn't about winning. It's about standing up for a higher purpose. D&D isn't supposed to be GRIMDARK.

>>6150393
I believe "uselessly" was a key word.

As in, if you rush an MG bunker screaming "I SHALL PWN YOU" and get shot, that's useless.

If you rush it with a huge pack of explosives and destroy it in process so others may pass, well that's much less useless

>>6150402

Yeah, I never really got that. 4E put it the other way around.

>>6150403

I don't think that loving a person, should disqualify someone as being evil.

>>6150438
No, but I also don't think doing something good and reflecting the twisted society you were born and raised on means you're evil.

She should be given a chance, ya know?

>>6150424
>As in, if you rush an MG bunker screaming "I SHALL PWN YOU" and get shot, that's useless.

But if you get enough retards to do that, some of them will survive to take capture the bunker. Those who died didn't die uselessly. Their deaths allowed for the survivors to get the job done.

>>6150450
>She should be given a chance, ya know?

Well, the guy she did it for was a paladin. Assuming the pally is being played properly, she'll get her chance.

>>6150438
>I don't think that loving a person, should disqualify someone as being evil.

>>6149075
Try and teach her his ways while dragging her along with him.

>>6150393
>>6150411

The art of war, by Sun Tzu strongly recommends that if the fight is useless, fall back, regroup and bait the enemy so that you retain the upper hand. If you know the actual history of the man himself, he defeated a numerically superior army using cunning and stealth whilst securing his position in history.

That's not to say asians are the only brilliant strategists, we need not forget they did not use ballista's or other such warmachines and that the rules he suggests can at times be subjective to the situation at hand.

>>6150424
It barely qualifies, but accepting that there will be casualties in war puts this example on the seesaw. If there is no way to guarantee that the explosives will go off in time without being present or otherwise setting it off prematurely then I suppose it's acceptable.

Otherwise, at all times, alternative delivery methods and more accurate timing systems should be investigated.

Realistically, it's the same argument that's led to the prevalence of rifles and tanks over swords and cavalry.

>>6150470
It'd be nice if he "saved" her, or more accurately exposed her to another lifestyle and its ways and allowed her to make the informed choiced on how she wanted to live.

It could end very nicely, with her basically ending up as a secure and content, good person in the world or terrible with her seeing the "good" as being weak.

It would require some genius roleplaying to make the morality lessons relevant and poignant, as well as positively reinforcing the good behavior.

>>6150510
>The art of war, by Sun Tzu strongly recommends that if the fight is useless, fall back, regroup and bait the enemy so that you retain the upper hand.

What counts as a useless fight varies depending on whether you're talking to the commander or the foot soldier.

Even if the battle is won, and the war comes to a close, someone's dumb ass is still getting punched full of holes.

>could care less

MAN this thread is getting off topic. How about we discuss what the drow and paladin's sex life would be like?

>>6150770
Like Secret Journey possibly, but without the paladin being a shota.

>>6150770
Outside the bedroom, they never speak of it. Theres tension there, plainly visible to anyone whos around, but they never talk about it.

Then night falls, and the guy who booked the room in the inn next to theres cant get any sleep because of the yelling.

>>6150452

This is the kind of thinking that made WWI such a clusterfuck. You take out an MG bunker with a tank or at worst a bazooka.

Human wave attacks only work for Russians and Chinese, and even they're trying to cut back.

>>6150808
She misses having sisters to help out but enjoys having a penis of her own, ALL to herself.

>>6150808

Imagine the look on their faces when they come down early next morning and find their dwarven companion nursing an ale with huge bags under his eyes. Without missing a beat he turns to the pair and asks. "Ya have a busy night then?" They sit, drow girl looking a little bashful before he turns to them and say "Hey Drisryna, what does 'vith mak val nek' mean?"

Drisryna's cheeks turn so red it's actually visible.

>>6151031

... seeing as how skin color (ignoring melanin) is mostly 'clear,' blurring things underneath the skin into a single shade, what does this mean for drow? 'Protective camouflage?' 'Lolth did it to piss off Correllon?'

Actually, regarding the last one: what happened between them to hate each other SOOOOO MUCH?

>>6149392
this is why crimelords are stupid and rich people are smart, crimelords are stupid evil and polticians are lawful evil.

>>6151119

>>6151119
rich crimelords, believe it or not, exist

>>6151198

I thought that being rich was a prerequisite for qualifying as a crimelord. Because they wouldn't be very lordly if they were poor.

>>6151031
"Now, my good dwarf, there is a perfectly reasonab-"
"YOU LIE"
"H-"
"YOU LIE HORRIBLE LIES MADE OF HORRIBLE LIES. LIAR."

rolled 69 = 69

>>6151031
>'vith mak val nek

...oh.

Oh, well played good sir.

>>6151310

I didn't get it. Can you essplain it to me?

>>6151416
I dont know either, sound funny.

rolled 24 = 24

>>6151416

Well, 'mak val' didn't translate at all, but 'vith' is 'fuck' and 'val' is 'slut.'

So I can only imagine it's "fuck me you slut" or "fuck me like a slut." Either way, it's quite dirty.

>>6151492
sounds about right for these two

PORN DUMP!!!

>>6151492

From what language is this?

>>6151542
Drow.

Here.

http://www.grey-company.org/Maerdyn/resources/translator/

>>6151031

Here it is actually written out

Vith uns'aa saph l' nek Usstan tlun dos massive fuer'yon

rolled 95 = 95

>>6151542

Drow. I used an online translator.

http://www.grey-company.org/Maerdyn/resources/translator/

>>6151547

Drow isn't a language, its lexicon borrows from elven and undercommon in a manner that doesn't even qualify it as a pidgin tongue.

>>6151579

Only if you're using Drow of the Underdark.

You can have it as a separate language if such is how it is in your campaign.

It sounds like she's a pretty normal teenager.

>>6149840

NRA member detected

Well, as far as the Drow, she can follow around if she'd like. There's no returning home for her, and fostering an orphan is definitely a good act. Aspire to provide a good image for her, and lead by example. I would hope to instruct her on how a paladin conducts themself, hopefully inspiring her to do the same.

>>6149479

You are mistaken, clearly the one fucking evil in this situation is the Paladin.

The situation is easy. The Paladin teaches her the right way to conduct herself in a more passive and less agressive way, Due to her tender years and infatuation with the paladin this is easy...

Was this mean to be a challenge?

infact was there even a problem ith the Paladen being in the Matrons harem anyway?

Paladins can have sex, and infact do quite often. Sex isn't a crime against law, nature, or society. So really Any paladin worth his salts would have fucked the whole lot of em the same number each to be fair and done it to a satisfactory end, as it's expected of them to do their best. Afterwrads a few " don't be a dick and kill shit"s later he'd be on his way to go subdue something that threatens the lives of innocents.

Seriously... was there a challenge here?

>>6149075

Another question, how would the matron and the sisters react? Would they just shrug and say "that's one less competitor/threat to my throne" or would they devote every waking moment to hunting their former toy and wayward kin down and making them bleed?

>>6150214
His name's Alaric, according to the writefaggotry.

>>6152390
>infact was there even a problem ith the Paladen being in the Matrons harem anyway?
The original question (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5954268/) was that the Drow had captured him and forced him to be there sex slave. Of course nothing fall worthy there, but if he neglects his Holy Duty in order to get more hawt sex, and makes no attempt to escape, then it can be argued that he isn't fufillign his role as a paladin.

>>6152531
Ah I see.

Well then the simple task is to give them the obviously needed holy dickings, and escape. Drow they are, but living people all the same. No need to kill any of them.

>>6152456

While I doubt they would devote EVERY waking moment, one or more of the sisters would probably try to hunt the girl down, if for no other reason than to impress mommy.

>>6152576
Hopefully the paladin will have moved the fuck away by then, discouraging pursuit. Remember, they RAPED HIM.

>>6152604

He wasn't exactly resisting. Besides, can a man actually be raped by women he finds attractive? I mean, they aren't exactly cuddly but the drow are not exactly bad looking either.

>>6149912
She finds another young paladin to fill the void in her heart and recapture the exhilarating feeling of first coming to the surface and learning about a person she admires. As this one ages she starts being filled with neuroses. She feels the pain of losing him everyday, even before he has gone. Every morning is a new horror as the lines in his face grow deeper and his hair line recedes by a few follicles. Every time she sees a single hair fall of his head she pictures a grain of sand in an hourglass counting down the moment of his death. Even the most joyful times are bittersweet. She can't help but dwell on the nagging fact that soon she will be alone and the joy will be only a memory.
After her new companion passes she tells her self she will never again become emotionally invested in someone who's time is so brief. All too soon though, she finds her self enthralled and infatuated with another young crusader and restarts the tortuous cycle.

>>6152641
Can a woman actually be raped by a man she finds attractive?

>>6152641
magic boner drugs

>>6152641
Bound and gagged, man, bound and gagged.

>>6152645
;_;

>>6152645

and that's how the world got filled with half-drow clerics of Lathander.

THIS THREAD IS MADE OF AWKWARD, EVIL AND SAD

>>6152645
If this continued on for long enough I am sure people would forget her origin and she would become some sort of a legend. Like a mystical lady of the lake type figure who's presence marks her companion as destined to be a great hero. When in reality there is no epic destiny to it, she just falls for good guys who do the right thing. They become heroes because all she has experienced in her long life makes her a good mentor.

Uriu jaluss llaar tlus feir tangis' 'zil decided ulu kl'ae tangis' alu ssinssrin ulu xun lor mzild saph?

>>6153050
Usstan kyorl vel'bol dos xunus gaer

>>6152645
I think that turned out to be a bit of a boner killer for this thread.

bumpo

>>6153789
Actually, that's the only arousing thing in this part of the story.

>>6153140
Dos fridj noamuth l' nibele.

>>6152604

>implying men can be raped.

>>6157809 Implying that they can't.

>>6157828
>implying that men ar- SQUEEEEEE! SQUEEEE!

>>6157809
If you ever get into prison do that funny implying thing. I'm positive all the nice boys will want to be friends with you.

>>6157809

>Implying that being raped by a filthy hick and being raped by gorgeous dark elf women are equally traumatizing

>implying that certain implications might or might not have been implied by implying implications
>implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying implying

/thread

Back to the Drow porn, please.

>>6157859

implying that rape isn't traumatizing no matter what...

Yeah, someone should rip Drowtales.com's Daydream section.

>>6157900
What, again? Check /rs/

>>6157912
Sadly, the ones I found are up to 2008 or something.

>>6157879
That's sort of definitional, though; if it's not traumatizing it's not rape, it's a pleasant suprise.

>>6157879

Ok then, let's say hypothetically you were in the Paladin's position. You were taken prisoner by a bunch of beautiful women and "forced" to have sex with them.

When you eventually escaped, could you honestly say you would be traumatized by the whole thing?

>>6157941

Given that it would involve unconsented S&M, yes.

>>6157941
You're assuming we would've tried to escape.

>>6157941
It would be traumatic in the sense that your vows / oaths may have been unwillingly violated.

>>6157879
Its stupid to think rape that goes with your preference is just as bad as rape that goes against your preference.

>>6157969

No you would try to escape once the piercings and strap-ons came out.

>>6157970
People with Vow of Chastity can ONLY have sex by being raped, so raping them (in line with their preferences, obviously) is showing kindness.

>>6157941
Friction burns.

>>6157970
In terms of Unknown Armies' sanity meters, it might be a hit against either Self or Helplessness.

Adapt to your own system's sanity rules.

>>6157941

Yes. Because I was forced into something I didn't want to do. I should have been able to protect myself. I am a failure as a man.

>>6157973
So a gay guy that's raped by a guy is happier (or less traumatized) then if it's raped by a woman?

What the fuck are you smoking?

>>6157941
considering some of the things drow are prone to to to sex slave surfacers, a little...
if it was vanilla or even 4chan type sex, I'd probably take it in stride though

>>6157973
If it was perfectly in line with your preferences, you would have willingly had the sex, as long as you were actually in a mental state allowing you to actually make that decision; ergo all rape is either against some preference, or performed in a situation where consent may not be given.

>>6158008
>implying gay people are an "it"

>>6158008
There is more to preference than liking guys versus liking girls.

For example, most people have a preference for not being raped.

>>6157982
Well yes, at that point I would've high-tailed it out of there. But if this is regular group orgy we're talking about with a Drow matron and her nympho daughters, you can bet your ass I wouldn't be trying to escape anytime soon.

>>6158025
>implying faggots are people

>>6158041
> regular group orgy
> Drow
Even if it isn't freaky yet, you know it's going to get freaky

>>6158008

Rape is sex in which someone is unwilling. Obviously, someone who would otherwise consent, but really has to go to work, is going to be less traumatic than, I don't know, being raped by gigantic carnivorous worms coming from your zombified grandfather's crotch. This should be pretty obvious.

>>6158038
The definition of "rape" being what it is, EVERYONE has a preference to not be raped.

Saying you can like rape is like saying you enjoy things which are unenjoyable to you.

>>6158054
You can consent to things you hate, and refuse things you adore. This is pretty simple stuff.

>>6158053
Unless grandfather zombie crotch worms are your fetish, obviously.

>>6158049
>implying implications

>>6158054
Technically you could have a preference for having sex while in a state where you are not capable of giving or denying consent; that would still be rape.

>>6158064
You can't like things which you don't like (at least not at the same time, though tastes can change over time).

Likewise, you can't ENJOY rape.

>>6158052
Then I stay until they do get freaky. Maybe a little after, depending on what "freaky" implies...

>>6158077
One can give consent for something to be done to their body when they are unconscious. Just like how you can consent to have a medical procedure performed on you after you're knocked out, so can you consent before hand in the situation you described.

>>6157941
YES

What if a female paladin god captured by orcs, she's getting sex, so why would it be traumatizing?

>>6158070
>implications implied, implied the implicater and implied the implications of implicating implicationism.

>>6158041

The technical term when it's many women and one man is "reverse gang bang." Orgy implies 6 or more people and a more even distribution of the sexes.

LESS DISCUSSION AND IMPLICATIONS, MORE DROW WOMEN
PREFERABLY TWO OR MORE DROW WOMEN AT THE SAME TIME

>>6158088
Seeing as how the Paladin in our story was chained to a bed, I don't think a simple "it's getting too freaky ladies, I'm our of here" would suffice.

>>6158139
Duly noted.

>>6158161
which is where our greedy little nympho rescuer comes in...

>>6158154
Thread is autosaging, start new one for your purposes.

New thread
>>6158480