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  • File : 1254764029.jpg-(64 KB, 464x600, playershandbook35full.jpg)
    64 KB Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:33 No.6143735  
    Ok /tg/ here's the deal. My DM has asked to roll 10th level characters for a 3.5e campaign.

    One catch. They need to be as broken as possible.

    We can disregard four levels of level adjustment for monster races. As well as 100k gp to start. Help me break a character?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:34 No.6143740
    wizard 10
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:35 No.6143746
    >Divine Metamagic
    Have fun.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:35 No.6143750
    Druid 10
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:37 No.6143757

    It's like cleric, but wisdom is the only stat you really need, since your animal form gives you whatever physical stats you need. natural spell is the feat that you want.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:37 No.6143764
    Don't use any monster race, or any LA of any kind. Go straight Player's Handbook caster, and guaranteed you'll be the most powerful character. Unless you pick Bard, like a moron.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:38 No.6143766
    I think OP wants something more complicated. Anybody can make a full caster and say "lol i b0rk it."

    I say play an alphornomancer.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:39 No.6143779

    Hey man, all he said was "as broken as possible" and for as broken as possible, its wizard 10, or druid 10.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:39 No.6143783
    What was that build where you could throw the world?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:40 No.6143788
    OK, good point.

    Personally I'd go with something overly complicated, but that's just me.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:41 No.6143798
    Play a centaur witch-hunter with a mortar on his back.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:41 No.6143800
    This one? http://4chan.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5764574/

    Gotta admit, that would be fun.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:49 No.6143872
    isn't Locate City nuke doable by level 7?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:50 No.6143887
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    >One catch. They need to be as broken as possible.

    Please expound on what you mean by "broken". Do you mean broken to the level of Pun-Pun, the Omniscifier, the Hulking Hurler, the Alphornmancer, or other such builds? Or do you mean "broken" to a more manageable degree, such as a Venomfire-abusing druid or a Wraithstrike- and Leap Attack-abusing arcane gish? With +4 free LA and 100,000 gp to spend, we have much leeway in creating a character for you. Before we begin, however, I would like to ask you several questions:

    1.) Are 3.0 supplements such as Oriental Adventures allowed?
    2.) Is material from Dragon Magazine permitted?
    3.) Is online material from the WotC website legal for you to take?
    4.) Are options from campaign-specific sourcebooks valid for you?
    5.) Can you use the Tome of Battle?
    6.) Can you select flaws from Unearthed Arcana?
    7.) Can you devote yourself to an Elder Evil, as per the rules in the Elder Evils supplement, in order to receive bonus vile feats?
    8.) Are you using point-buy, and if so, how many feats do you have available to spend?

    Please answer these to the best of your ability, such that we establish a common frequency.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:54 No.6143920
    er, wait it's level 9 without taking flaws
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:55 No.6143937
    Wow, this guy doesn't fuck around.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:56 No.6143946
    Lvl 10 Monk.

    Vow of Poverty.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:57 No.6143953
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    A paragon level campaign

    Sounds fun
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:57 No.6143956

    Oh, also, make him a half-celestial.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:57 No.6143957

    You are now reading his post as spoken by his avatar.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:59 No.6143972

    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)13:59 No.6143975
    This picture is the exact right size that each frame is precisely one click of my mouse wheel. Scrolling down this thread was a much more awesome experience than most. Just thought I'd share.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:00 No.6143977
    Fuck you, warforged bard with wand magic.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:01 No.6143988
    he is a touhoufag. the ultimate min/maxer. the druid/wizard suggestions are all true, but for true, ultimate brokenness, we all must consult the one who would bring us to the outer limits.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:01 No.6143992
    I was already doing that because I'm pretty messed up from spending too much time on /a/ before /jp/ was split off.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:02 No.6143996
    doesn't work when you don't know the avatar
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:05 No.6144025
    Start with an awakened bear druid and take a bear as your animal companion. Awaken it.
    Take leadership at 6th level with an awakened bear druid with an awakened bear animal companion as your cohort. If its level 6 or higher it takes leadership with enough recursion make Turing cry.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:05 No.6144026
    1) No
    2) No
    3) No
    4) No
    5) Yes
    6) Yes
    7) No
    8) Yes, and I have 4 feats to choose from I think
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:05 No.6144036
    I wish I know Rumia voice...
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:07 No.6144047
    Unlimited Bears Work!
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:07 No.6144052
    Make a mountain drawf rougue with fear of water then stick him in fullplate and buy a longboat.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:09 No.6144075
    OP Here. This thread kinda exploded while I was in class, and while I'm still in class lemme see if I can clarify a little.
    I think we can use any material published. Most people in our group roll classes from Dragon or SRD. Or shit they make themselves
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:11 No.6144093
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    make an ork bard , present you character sheet to your DM , make the troll face and ask him : PROBLEMS DM ?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:12 No.6144106
    just go with fighter 10 man it'll be funny
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:14 No.6144128
    OP again.

    A joke is my group, for as long as I've been a member of it (which is pretty short) is I consistently try to play a Halfling Bardbarian.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:16 No.6144144

    Spiked chain fighter. Make your Dex as high as possible, and take Weapon Finesse. Combat Expertise. Also, make sure the chain has some ridiculous ability on it. Brilliant Energy would be a nice one to have. Monkey Grip could be nice, so that you could use and oversized spiked chain that has a range of 15 feet instead of 10.

    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:17 No.6144155

    Then do something bizzare , like playing a warelobster.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:17 No.6144158
    This is very relevant to my interests, although I was about to post a thread asking for a broken 10th level monk because my DM doesn't believe they can be broken.
    God bless Touhoufag
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:17 No.6144165
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    Well, could you answer my inquiries regarding flaws from Unearthed Arcana, the point-buy scheme to be used, and what you mean by "broken"? Without an upper limit, the creation process becomes all too muddled, as everything will point to Pun-Pun or a similar build. When the sky is the limit, a rocket sent forth will drift aimlessly into space.

    Additionally, tell us what YOU want to play. Something to work with, a foundation from which our endeavors will be formed upon, a... concept, if you will. Look through the suggestions in this thread. Do you want to play an arcanist, a divine character, a druid, a melee combat, an alphornmancer, a leader with hundreds of followers, a halfling barbarian, or what-have-you? Tell us what you desire to roll up, and we shall work from there.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:18 No.6144169
    Currently playing a gnome barbarian. Its working out pretty well.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:18 No.6144175
    Yet again, it's everyone's favorite OP.

    Also, my best friend is doing EXACTLY THAT. I feel like an ass doing it as well.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:20 No.6144200
    I'd like to do a ridiculously broken caster, optimally. I've always favored casters but never played a significantly rape one. I'd like to be obnoxious race as well, but that's largely irrelevant.

    Also, I considered saying fuck it, and building Pun-Pun
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:20 No.6144206

    wareplatapus can work as well too
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:20 No.6144207

    Out of seriously nowhere I just got the mental image that touhoufag is actually stephen hawking posting while wearing a miko costume and furiously working out minmaxing formulae in his head
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:22 No.6144221

    just for giggles I'd like to see touhoufag minmax a fighter as well, with the 100k gp budget

    should be lolsworthy
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:22 No.6144232
    Actually the case.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:25 No.6144257
    >One catch. They need to be as broken as possible.
    Buy a Candle of Invocation. Use it to call in an Efreet. Have it grant you Wishes with its SLA. Wish for a Ring of Infinite Wishes, which is within the specific listed abilities of Wish.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:27 No.6144279
    All of these things are awesome ideas that should be explored
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:28 No.6144283

    And also: PUN-PUN FAGGOTS!

    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:29 No.6144295
    Alternatively, use it to gate in a Titan. Then have the Titan use its Gate SLA to gate in another Titan. Infinite loop.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:29 No.6144299
    Monk with the Vow of Poverty
    >> LogicNinja !AZlS3./ex. 10/05/09(Mon)14:30 No.6144308
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    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:30 No.6144310
    Druid with Vow of Poverty
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:30 No.6144311
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    Well, let us narrow down your concept. Here would be the most optimal full spellcasting base classes in 3.5:
    • Archivist (Intelligence-based, divine)
    • Artificer (Intelligence/Charisma-based, crafting)
    • Cleric (Wisdom-based, divine)
    • Druid (Wisdom-based, divine)
    • Favored Soul (Charisma-based, divine)
    • Psion/Erudite (Intelligence-based, psionic)
    • Sorcerer (Charisma-based, arcane)
    • Wizard (Intelligence-based, arcane)

    Now, we can narrow this down even further into one of several archetypes, and this list is not exhaustive:
    • Battlefield buffer/controller
    • Blaster (yes, this is viable with proper optimization)
    • Melee weapon user (including natural weapons)
    • Ranged weapon user
    • Save-or-suck/save-or-die specialist
    • Summoner

    What would you like to play? A sorcerer who throws down the vicious Wings of Flurry castings? A druid who rushes into the fray in aberration form, massacring the opposition with Venomfire and natural weapons? A cleric who abuses Divine Metamagic in class CoDzilla style? An arcane gish making the most of Wraithstrike, Power Attack, and Leap Attack? Name us what you want to play, and we shall aid you.


    With or without the free +4 LA?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:32 No.6144335
    >level 10
    Enjoy your wizard or druid. Wings of Flurry? You can't metamagic it to all hell yet.

    IMO the best use of LA would be to spend it on a race with racial spellcasting, thereby getting more than 10 caster levels.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:33 No.6144348
    This is why people hate D&Dfags
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:35 No.6144358
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:36 No.6144373
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:36 No.6144377
    >tl;dr >>6144358
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:37 No.6144388
    There's a reason you see far more of this sort of shit in D&D than in roleplaying games.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:38 No.6144400
    Because D&D has a lot more people playing it?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:39 No.6144413
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    >Enjoy your wizard or druid.
    The others are fully viable with proper tweaking.

    >Wings of Flurry? You can't metamagic it to all hell yet.
    Which is why I ask if the OP is permitted to take flaws or not.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:40 No.6144420
    regardless of what charachter you're playing, a half illithid template is pretty imba
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:40 No.6144425
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    I saved this a long, long time ago. Just because of you.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:41 No.6144432
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    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:42 No.6144448
    Flaws won't help. Being higher level and having Greater Arcane Fusion and Arcane Spellsurge and Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability for like 4-8 spells/round does help.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:43 No.6144457
    Isn't that what he said here?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:44 No.6144469
    Or simply play a psionic class.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:45 No.6144477
    >psionics are broken
    You're a retard who doesn't understand D&D. Arcane magic is a ton more powerful than psionics.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:46 No.6144487
    So you're playing a typical but slightly underpowered 3.x campaign? Just look on any of the other 500,000 sites with l33t bu1ldz for your t00nz.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:48 No.6144510
    >implying Psionics is broken
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:54 No.6144571
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    Well, OP, have you decided on what you wish to play?


    I was actually considering being a Very Young (Loredrake) Tome Dragon/Incantatrix 3. Not only would that grant us 10th-level sorcerer spellcasting, but it would also bestow upon us a +4 racial bonus to Charisma, every single conjuration and divination on the sorcerer spell list as spells known, spells from the Knowledge domain as spells known as well, the ability to cast metamagic'd sorcerer spells without increasing their casting time, and 1 less spell level increase on all metamagic feats.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:55 No.6144591
    Just be a Dragonwrought Kobold and exploit Loredrake that way.

    >less metamagic increase
    That's at Incantatrix 10, cocknigger.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:57 No.6144604
    I think that's from Tome Dragon...
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)14:59 No.6144633
    Loredrake gets you more casting.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)15:00 No.6144641
    If you must be a healer, take cleric, radiant servant of pelor (with some vows - poverty and abstinence mainly)

    Take divine spellpower, sacred healing, and augment healing. (all from complete divine and phb2)

    There is a reserve feat in complete champion called touch of healing. As a standard action, you can touch a target to heal them for 3xthe highest healing spell you have prepared (cleric auto-preparing doesn't count, so have the healing domain) as long as the target is below 50% health. After this, you can take reach spell, and divine metamagic (reach spell) so you won't need to be right up to someone to use a healing spell.

    Spell selection will probably vary, but take healing lorecall, the vigor spells are pretty boss too.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)15:01 No.6144662
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    >Just be a Dragonwrought Kobold and exploit Loredrake that way.
    The validity of Sovereign Archetypes on Dragonwrought kobolds is a highly contested subject, fraught with debate and argument over whether or not such kobolds count as "true dragons" with their draconic age categories, though if the DM of the OP will allow such an interpretation of the rules, then we should by all means go for it.

    >That's at Incantatrix 10, cocknigger.
    It is also a supernatural special quality received by Very Young Tome Dragons.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)15:06 No.6144717
    Technically it's -1 spell level from metamagic overall, you don't get -2 if you apply 2 metamagics.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)15:07 No.6144737
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    Of course; my mistake.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)15:11 No.6144786
    Sup OP. Play a succubus.

    LA 7, with 6 racial HD, will leave you with 1 character level after creation since you're ignoring four of that, so pick something CHA heavy.

    Now, enjoy your at-will greater teleport and automatic caster level of 12.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)15:21 No.6144885
    Be an illithid savant!!
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:00 No.6145372
    If touhoufag is still around, Monk guy here.
    I basically have no restrictions aside from being a 10th level human monk.
    What sort of build would to recommend to break the game?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:06 No.6145441
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    A helpful soul I am who does optimization〜
    It's just what I do instead of picking up an education〜
    Handing out advice and all manner of consultation〜
    But doing it without a direction or foundation is just a situation filled with frustration〜
    So please, OP, if you will, set me on the right path towards our destination〜


    I somehow doubt that 8 HD, +16 Charisma, and an at-will Greater Teleport shall do much good for you. Besides, if you had wanted to maximize your Charisma score with free +4 LA, there are more cost-efficient means by which to do so a lesser aasimar with the Magic-Blooded template from Dragon Magazine #306, the Half-Fey template from the Fiend Folio, and the Phrenic template from the Expanded Psionics Handbook would have net racial ability score modifiers of +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, and +12 Charisma, which is quite impressive. In addition, such a character would have spell/power resistance equal to character level + 10, immunity to enchantment spells and effects, a fly (good) speed equal to twice her base land speed, and a host of spell/psi-like abilities, including an at-will Charm Person, a 1/day Psychic Crush, and a 1/day Confusion.


    Is this for the same game as the OP is in, that is, free +4 LA and 100,000 gp to spend? You would really be much better off multiclassing, such as with a Monk 1/Psychic Warrior 9 Tashalatora build, or even taking a wholly different class such as unarmed swordsage... but if you wish for a Monk 10, then so be it.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:10 No.6145489
    Making the character is sort of accomplishing two things (Putting the DM in his place and proving monks are made of badass, which my group doesn't seem to believe)
    Unlike OP I don't have the same +4 LA stuff, just a straight 10 levels to throw down into this class and start punching throats.
    I have about 75k worth of gold to throw into it as well.
    I've never attempted making an actual 'broken' character so some of this shit is new to me.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:11 No.6145510
    >proving monks are made of badass, which my group doesn't seem to believe
    That's because your group is right bro.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:13 No.6145551
    Then whats up with all the old threads I've seen that talked about monks pulling crazy shit?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:14 No.6145571
    You mean the ones about Monk 1/Psychic Warrior X characters? Or unarmed swordsages? Or non-3.5e games?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:15 No.6145573
    OP's Friend here.

    Expanded rules:
    Level 10.
    100k gp.
    Disregard up to 4 levels of level adjustment.
    Stats (before race adjustments) are three 18s and three 16s.
    As powerful as possible given this design.

    On a related note: Is there any way to nullify a Vampire's weaknesses?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:15 No.6145585
    Become a Vampire Lord?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:16 No.6145608
    >On a related note: Is there any way to nullify a Vampire's weaknesses?
    Don't be a vampire.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:17 No.6145620
    I just remember threads and monks were involved.
    I'm working with some poor ass memory bro, and I only glanced at that shit. Which is unfortunate as I know need that knowledge.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:19 No.6145634
    Check out the Unbodied from Complete Psionics Handbook. You are completely intangible - not ethereal. There's an LA of 4, but if you take even a single level of Psion (I think) you're considered to be four levels higher.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:21 No.6145670
    It's also got 4HD, so you come out even in terms of manifester level, though of course you get quite a few goodies in the process.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:29 No.6145796
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    This shall be... difficult. Quite, quite difficult. A few questions for you now, sirrah:
    1.) Are you using point-buy, and if so, how many points might you have to spend?
    2.) Would taking flaws from Unearthed Arcana be legal for you?
    3.) Are monk fighting styles from Unearthed Arcana and Dragon Magazine allowed?
    4.) Are variant monk classes from Dragon Magazine allowed?
    5.) Are Martial Arts Schools from Oriental Adventures and Dragon Magazine allowed?
    6.) Is the Book of Exalted Deeds allowed?

    I am considering a Raptoran Monk 10 with the Wild Monk variant from page 97 of Dragon Magazine #324, the Bane of the Clockwork variant from page 91 of Dragon Magazine #351, and the Vow of Poverty feat. Yes, abusing variants from Dragon Magazine to gain Wild Shape and the ability to use Stunning Fist on constructs (a martial artist who turns into a bear and fights robots?) may be a cop-out, but this is a Monk 10, and we must pull out all the stops.


    Could you please answer the questions in >>6143887 on behalf of the OP, most especially #6 and #7?


    The Vampire Lord template has no listed level adjustment, unfortunately.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:30 No.6145816
    Be punpun, then take levels in whatever the fuck you want.
    Punpun's pretty much THE most broken thing ever.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:36 No.6145915
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    >a martial artist who turns into a bear and fights robots?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:40 No.6145964

    OP's friend again.

    1.) Are 3.0 supplements such as Oriental Adventures allowed?
    2.) Is material from Dragon Magazine permitted?
    3.) Is online material from the WotC website legal for you to take?
    4.) Are options from campaign-specific sourcebooks valid for you?
    5.) Can you use the Tome of Battle?
    6.) Can you select flaws from Unearthed Arcana?
    7.) Can you devote yourself to an Elder Evil, as per the rules in the Elder Evils supplement, in order to receive bonus vile feats?
    8.) Are you using point-buy, and if so, how many feats do you have available to spend?


    1) I'd say only 3.5 supplements.
    2) Unsure. Likely not, but we could argue it if we could find copies to have on hand (internet / digital copies work.)
    3) If it is 3.5 stuff, we could very likely argue it.
    4) See 3.
    5) I'm unsure what that is actually.
    6) The DM has done it in my campaign, so yes.
    7) Its questionable. The DM may make us start eating babies. I'd say probably not just to be safe.
    8) For stats we are considered to have rolled three 18s and three 16s, and get as many feats as our race / class gets by level 10.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)16:53 No.6146162
    This shall be... difficult. Quite, quite difficult. A few questions for you now, sirrah:
    1.) No we aren't
    2.) Yes
    3.) Yes
    4.) Yes
    5.) Yes
    6.) Nothings been barred so again yes

    And again thank you for the help. Your knowledge is terrifying...
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)17:36 No.6146663
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    >5) I'm unsure what that is actually.
    The Tome of Battle is a supplement for 3.5.

    >6) The DM has done it in my campaign, so yes.
    Were you allowed to select flaws that did not affect your character meaningfully, such as Inattentive and Shaky, or did they have to be significant, such as Meager Fortitude or Weak Will?

    >8.) Are you using point-buy, and if so, how many feats do you have available to spend?

    I see, I see. Now, is there anything I could help you with with regards to your own build for this game, whilst the OP is gone?


    The current draft I have for your Monk 10 build involves you Wild Shaping into a Large-sized, floating brain, slapping your enemies around with acidic tentacles, and crushing the minds of your foes. You will not be using Stunning Fist or Flurry of Blows at all. Are you absolutely sure you wish to go through with this hilariously non-monk-ish build?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)17:43 No.6146747
    Oh Im sure of it. More sure than I've ever been about ANYTHING IN THIS GAME BEFORE
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)17:48 No.6146804

    The flaws he selected in my campaign was a bipolar disorder, but we're allowed anything.

    If Tome of Battle is 3.5, and I can find an excerpt of whatever I use, then yes, its usable.

    The pair of us are just looking for over-powered beings as a whole. My ideas were circulating around the higher level adjustment races whilst ignoring up to four levels of the adjustment.

    Oh, and OP is standing on my left, playing Audio Surf, so we're both here.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)17:50 No.6146844
    Flying Brain Wide-Shaping as a level 10 monk?!
    Dear god, I bow down to you sir/madam. For that is truely the most insane things I have ever heard. Make it half dragon. With Eye lazers. I don't care about the level. Just do it, I BELIVE IN YOU!
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)17:55 No.6146904
    Ultimate Magnus prestige class (complete mage).

    Sure, you lose some of your more powerful spells, but it makes up for it in the SHEER FUCKING NUMBER of spells you can cast per day. Bonus points for metamagic motherfuckery.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)17:56 No.6146918
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    I am simply reluctant about this because this is textbook abuse of Aberration Wild Shape, Assume Supernatural Ability, and Improved Assume Supernatural Ability. A druid can execute this set of shenanigans to a superior degree, but alas, it was a monk that was requested. It is a shame that you are not to use point-buy, but do prioritize your ability scores as follows: Wisdom > Charisma > Constitution > Intelligence > Dexterity > Strength. Additionally, do examine the Thoon Elder Brain on pages 121-123 of the Monster Manual V and note how Dual Actions is an extraordinary special attack which is granted to you by Wild Shape.


    >The pair of us are just looking for over-powered beings as a whole. My ideas were circulating around the higher level adjustment races whilst ignoring up to four levels of the adjustment.
    Well, I am not a person to put forth concepts from scratch. I require a foundation to work with, as shown by my lyrical in >>6145441, and so if you have any concept for an optimized character in mind, do inform me of such.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:04 No.6147001
    I want to see the actual build for this.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:06 No.6147018

    My idea for my character is a Rakasha Fighter, ignoring 4 of the 7 levels of level adjustment. Meaning 3 levels in Mosnter and the remaining 7 in Fighter. I want to max out AC as much as possible while still being able to be useful with skills. With the dex that race would get, Full plate and likewise large scale armors become impractical.
    Input / ideas?
    >> Glutton 10/05/09(Mon)18:06 No.6147020
    rolled 28 = 28

    Play a Swashbuckler with Two Eyepatches that can best anyone in a duel.

    Take Blind fighting as a Feat, Possibly Tremor sense (Not sure if you can do this..)
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:06 No.6147022
    Seconding out of sheer horrific curiosity...
    Touhou your shit is off the hook today
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:08 No.6147049
    They need to be spellcasters since they add their levels of rakshasa or whatever to their spellcasting class levels for what spells they know and shit.
    Youd pass that up to be a boring fighter?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:22 No.6147221
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    Patience, sirrahs, I am a very busy person.


    >My idea for my character is a Rakasha Fighter, ignoring 4 of the 7 levels of level adjustment. Meaning 3 levels in Mosnter and the remaining 7 in Fighter.

    Level adjustment... does not work that way, sirrah. Rakshasa have 7 racial outsider HD and +7 level adjustment, you see? Therefore, even if you ignore four of that level adjustment, you would be stuck with 7 HD and +3 level adjustment, which is quite a shame.

    Now, what you COULD do, on the other hand, is play a Wyrmling Steel Dragon from pages 140-142 of Dragons of Faerun. You would have 4 racial dragon HD and +2 level adjustment, leaving you with 6 class levels and another +2 level adjustment to play around with. You would have access to the Alternate Form supernatural special quality, allowing you to transform indefinitely into any Medium-sized animal or humanoid... an a legendary ape from the Monster Manual II happens to be a Medium-sized animal with 30 Strength, 17 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, a +6 natural armor bonus, and opposable thumbs. You could work with a legendary wolf as well, a Medium-sized animal from the same supplement with 25 Strength, 28 Dexterity, 21 Constitution, and a +5 natural armor bonus, but the lack of opposable thumbs would be a bother.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:27 No.6147291
    I would like to recommend that you do the party a favor and pick up War Weaver (Heroes of Battle) as your prestige class. At tenth level, you can have five levels of wizard and five levels of War Weaver. Here are the pros and cons:

    - You can cast buff spells on all of your allies simultaneously using the Eldritch Tapestry.
    - The range of your buff spells is increased by one category (touch->short, short->medium, etc.)
    - You can store up to four buff spells that can be released simultaneously as a move action.
    - You may cast ANY buff spell using the Eldritch Tapestry, regardless of if it's arcane or divine.

    - Requires 6 ranks of Craft (weaving) to enter.
    - Requires the Enlarge Spell feat to enter.
    - You lose one level of arcane spellcasting progression.
    - Reduced access to Knowledge as class skills

    So far, this sounds like a pretty decent buff caster. At level 10, you'll have access to 5th-level spells, and a Transmutation- or Abjuration-focused wizard could really pump their allies up by casting things like Fly or Haste on them simultaneously from a distance. Where this prestige class truly shines, however, is as a Mystic Theurge precursor. Take this progression, for instance:

    Wizard 5 -> War Weaver 5 -> Cleric 3 -> Mystic Theurge 7

    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:27 No.6147301

    Once you hit 11th level, you'll be able to start throwing out Cure spells at short (not touch!) range that affect all of your allies. That's a Mass Cure Light Wounds using a first-level slot. Grab Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric) to boost your range and power a bit on your way up to Mystic Theurge. If you want to be REALLY cheap, take Archivist instead of Cleric: sure, you lose access to spontaneous healing, but you reduce MAD and get to pick up some spells at ridiculously low levels.

    It gets better, though. There's a fantastic little feat chain from Magic of Eberron called Dragon Prophesier. You can drop a full-round action to enter a state of prophetic favor, which gives you a +1 insight bonus on saves. If you take further feats, however, you can vastly expand your capabilities while in prophetic favor. My two favorites are below:
    - Empower one spell per round for free, provided it isn't the highest level you can cast.
    - Quicken one Cure spell per round for free.
    That's right, you can cast a Quickened, Empowered, Mass Cure Critical Wounds for the same cost as a regular Cure Critical Wounds, then follow up with the rest of your turn. Party not that hurt? Just drop a Quickened, Mass Cure Light using a swift action and then blast away with an Empowered Disintegrate. Who cares if you can't stop time or call down meteors until level 20? You're going to be squirting positive energy out of every orifice and your party is going to -love it-.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:29 No.6147323
    >Wizard 5 -> War Weaver 5 -> Cleric 3 -> Mystic Theurge 7

    You were doing good until you fucked up royally here.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:29 No.6147333

    I should probably mention that if you add any sort of Celerity cheese to this, you're going to have one pissed off DM and one unkillable party.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:32 No.6147384
    just take domain spell (healing) and not bother multiclassing
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:37 No.6147466
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    You would fare much better simply continuing your wizard progression than multiclassing into cleric for healing spells, and even if you did wish to walk the dual progression route, archivist is strictly superior to cleric for Intelligence-based Mystic Theurges.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)18:42 No.6147552
    Grabbing the Healing domain doesn't get you Restoration line, any of the Remove spells, or any other useful Divine-only buff. Plus, the Mystic Theurge route means you can keep throwing out spell after spell and you'll probably be only down to half of your potential output by the time your party's ready to rest.

    Perhaps you could swap out Cleric for Archivist if you really want to be able to cast any spell in the game and reduce MAD, but then you have to drop a feat on Spontaneous Healing in order to qualify for the rapid-healing Dragon Prophesier feat, and even then you only get to spontaneously cast healing spells a certain number of times a day.
    >> LH 10/05/09(Mon)19:01 No.6147786

    Could you explain the 7 HD + 3 Level adjustment thing?
    Apparently my understanding of level adjustments is skewed.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)19:39 No.6148276
    bumping to keep alive, we need brain monk
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)19:44 No.6148328
    While we are powergaming, the only way to change the type of energy Dragonfire Inspiration creates is to take a dip in sorcerer and take draconic heritage, correct?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)19:47 No.6148360
    Pun Pun is the most broken possible, but it seems like you're going for something different than that.

    My advice? Don't go for something different than that.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)19:50 No.6148389
    Level adjustment is basically "Counts as X levels higher". Basically means that for experience point purposes you count as character of so many levels higher when determining how much experience you need to level up. In other words, your rakshasa fighter with 7 racial levels and the +7 LA counts-as 10th level. Good luck with that,
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)19:50 No.6148392
    HD are part of your effective level. So if you have 7 HD and +3 Level adjust, you are effectively a 10th level character even before class levels.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)19:57 No.6148467
    Alright Mr.Touhou
    I just got back from my DM, I have a Sorcerer 4 Dragon Disciple Red 5 im feeling this is the wrong choice HORRIBLY wrong choice, As my DM likes to give us level inappropriate encounters. Id like to continue being A sorcerer other then that im open.
    Heres what i have to work with
    1. No,
    2. No
    3. Yes
    4. Yes
    5. Yes
    6. Yes
    7. No
    8. No

    Can you make this happen? I want to be able to destroy at least an Old Dragon
    >> LH 10/05/09(Mon)19:57 No.6148468

    So now for the noob question.
    Can I just ditch some of the HD? I doubt it, because then I could easily break even worse things, but humor me. I'm quizzical.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:04 No.6148538

    Epic Casting at Level 6.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:10 No.6148596
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    Would you still be here? If so, I need to ask you to ask your DM a very important question: When, in your character's life span (that is, her level) would she have come into possession of any one of her items, say, a 40,000 gp Wild Shape Amulet? A metaphorical wrench has been thrown into the original design, you see, due to the feats I was looking over turning out to be available only at 6th-level due to the following level 1-10 progression of the wild monk from page 97 of Dragon Magazine #324:
    Level 1: Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike
    Level 2: Evasion
    Level 3: Resist Nature's Lure
    Level 4: Ki Strike (Magic)
    Level 5: Purity of Body
    Level 6: Wild Shape (1/day)
    Level 7: Wholeness of Body
    Level 8: Wild Shape (2/day)
    Level 9: Improved Evasion
    Level 10: Ki Strike (Lawful), Wild Shape (3/day)


    A level in dragon shaman would suffice as well, to an extent, as would the half-dragon template.


    Is this you, OP, or would you be another soul seeking guidance? I am afraid that not much can be done to salvage a Sorcerer 4/Red Dragon Disciple 5 who already exists. List down your current feats and your skill ranks; we shall see what prestige classes you qualify for from here.
    >> Zessar 10/05/09(Mon)20:12 No.6148615
    Two words
    >> LH 10/05/09(Mon)20:13 No.6148620

    Nah. For all intents and purposes I am the OP now, as the original OP has moved from Audio Surf to DDR. He is jittery.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:16 No.6148659
    I'm still here yeah
    He lets the drow players get away with ludacris shit without much explanation or thought so me having that amulet can just be tossed into my backstory somewhere (Seriously...if I said everything the drow get away with there would be a rage orgy)
    Shouldn't be a problem for Brainmonk to have it. Wacky family heirloom?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:20 No.6148701
    New Soul, My DM Say he keeps holding back or else he'll kill us so i want to give him reason to actually send high Encounter levels towards us
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:24 No.6148749
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    I see. Well, now that your idea regarding the rakshasa has been forced into the circular file, would you have any other concepts you seek consult regarding?


    I see, I see. Now, does your DM allow custom magic items that have specifically been approved by WotC as "kosher", or would you be restricted to items that have appeared in the published books?

    >You can reasonably assume that a pair of gauntlets of mighty fists ought to have the same base cost and market price as the amulet (6,000 to 150,000 gp), depending on the enhancement bonus the item provides. The +1 version (6,000 gp) has a monetary cost to create of 3,000 gp (half the base price) and an experience cost of 240 XP (1/25th the base cost).
    >On the other hand, a +1 magic weapon (such as a +1 spiked gauntlet) costs only 2,000 gp (for the magical enhancement). Another quick look at the table on page 288 of the Dungeon Master's Guide shows that the amulet slot is best for items that involve protection and discernment, not attack, so it's a good bet that the amulet's price already had an adjustment for an uncustomary item slot. That makes sense, because almost any creature can wear an amulet or necklace and the amulet works on unarmed attacks and natural weaponry. The amulet of mighty fists probably also is intended for familiars and animal companions as well as monks.
    >That uncustomary item slot adjustment is x 1.5 (see Table 7-33), so the base cost and market price for the gauntlets would be 4,000 gp (6,000/1.5). The item should have the same caster level as a magic weapon with the same enhancement bonus (3 x the bonus), and it would require the Craft Wondrous item feat.

    You do wish for +1 bracers for your tentacles, which shall be attached through Wilding Clasps, do you not? If this is not permitted, then we shall have to resort to the 18,000 gp Mantle of the Beast instead.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:25 No.6148767
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    Once again, I request your current feats and skill ranks, that we may examine which prestige classes you qualify for.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:29 No.6148799
    And when the Drow players are keeping their special armor from being destroyed by the sun just by wearing big pirate oats over them,
    These bracers should be fine.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:32 No.6148820
    Is that touhou having her tentacle eye thing fuck her while she's posing with a tiny, tiny skirt? Because if so that's fucking hot.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:37 No.6148863
    No, the eye is her accessory. There is no official statement as to whether it has its own sentience, is an extension of her body, or is inanimate. General consensus is likewise divided. And I have no idea what the fuck Hijiri is doing there.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:38 No.6148872
    Regardless, if you look in the picture there's a tentacle in a suspicious place.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:46 No.6148940
    Its going to take some time to Recover my sheet, If i can locate it, However i would be able to make a character from scratch which i assume gives you more room to operate?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:58 No.6149047
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    Very well. This shall be your feat progression:
    Human: Aberration Blood, Lords of Madness, page 178
    Level 1: Aberration Wild Shape, Lords of Madness, page 178
    Level 3: Assume Supernatural Ability, Savage Species, page 30
    Level 6: Improved Assume Supernatural Ability, Savage Species, page 35
    Level 9: Ability Focus (Overmind Blast), Monster Manual, page 303

    The Wild Shape Amulet from page 167 of Magic of Faerun increases your effective druid level by 4 for the purpose of Wild Shape, even allowing it without actually possessing the Wild Shape class feature. With Aberration Wild Shape, we are thus capable of transforming into a 12 HD Thoon Elder Brain from pages 121-123 of the Monster Manual V. This grants us 26 Strength, 14 Dexterity, 30 Constitution, a +15 natural armor bonus, and a fly 20 feet (perfect) speed.

    What of our attack options? Firstly, we have eight tentacles that each deliver 1d6 + Strength modifier damage plus 2d6 acid damage. These are augmented by the following special attack:
    >Acid Burn (Ex) The acid delivered by a Thoon elder brain’s tentacles continues to burn in the round after the Thoon elder brain hits. At the beginning of each of a Thoon elder brain’s physical action turns, the acid deals 4d6 points of acid damage to any creature the Thoon elder brain hit with a tentacle attack during the previous round. The damage is always 4d6 points, regardless of how many times the Thoon elder brain hit the creature.


    Well, only if your DM is amenable to the prospect of you beginning from scratch. If so, pick a full caster archetype from >>6144311, or name your own, and we shall proceed.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)20:59 No.6149053
    I did this to my players once. Once they had completed their characters I collected the sheets, thanked them for creating the BBEGs they were sent to stop, and told them to make real characters, core only.

    I hated that group.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:00 No.6149065
    ITT D&D 3.5.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:01 No.6149066
    New guy, just asking out of curiosity, but off the top of your head, is there any way to get Jump as a class skill, all things equal, without using a class that has it as a class skill? As a feat or so? I kinda feel like I've seen it somewhere, but can't remember where.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:02 No.6149080
    No. Why would you even want to?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:06 No.6149114
    That is AWESOME. I want to pull this on my players.
    >> LH 10/05/09(Mon)21:10 No.6149168

    I still don't quite understand. If my DM is allowing me to ignore up to 4 levels of level adjustment, does that mean a race that starts with any HD will still have that many levels in whatever?

    For example, my original choice had 7HD and a +7, does that mean it starts at level 14?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:13 No.6149196
    HD =/= level adjustment.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:13 No.6149199
    Either sorcerer or wizard Whichever is better for
    • Save-or-suck/save-or-die specialist
    >> OP 10/05/09(Mon)21:16 No.6149234
    use pun-pun

    >> Anonymuos 10/05/09(Mon)21:17 No.6149246
    I haven't read the thread but you could pick a Rakshasha and be a sorcerer.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:18 No.6149259
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    My apologies for the delay due to connection issues.


    Thanks to Assume Supernatural Ability and Improved Assume Supernatural Ability, we also have the following at our disposal:
    >Overmind Blast (Su) A Thoon elder brain can project the horror of its consciousness against a single foe within 100 feet. That target must succeed on a DC 22 Will save or take 2d6 points of Wisdom damage. Though overmind blast isn’t a fear effect, a creature that has immunity to fear or a save bonus against fear receives a +4 bonus on the saving throw. The save DC is Charisma-based.
    >A creature that is reduced to 0 Wisdom by an over mind blast is unconscious, but its body mutters, “Thoon... Thoon...” repeatedly until consciousness returns.

    Of course, the save DC on that ability for us is equal to 12 + 1/2 character level + Charisma modifier, including the bonus from Ability Focus.

    Lastly, we may use both our tentacles and our Overmind Blast in the same round:
    >Dual Action (Ex) A Thoon elder brain is a creature made up of multiple minds, all touched by the unreality of the Far Realm. Make two initiative checks for the creature. The higher result represents a mental action turn, and the lower result is used for a physical action turn. This means a Thoon elder brain can do more in a single round than most creatures. For example, it could perform an overmind blast (a purely mental action) on initiative count 17, then move and make a tentacle attack (a physical action) on initiative count 12. These initiative counts can change if a Thoon elder brain readies an action or delays to let its other half go first.

    This is listed down as an extraordinary special attack, and so you should receive it from Wild Shape. Up next, we shall handle our magic item budget.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:22 No.6149302
    It works like this: ECL=HD+LA

    Equivalent Character Level = Hit Dice + Level Adjustment

    Level Adjustment has nothing to do with Hit Dice but rather with a monster's abilities. A monster with incredible abilities might have a +8 LA, a monster with Elf/Halfling level abilities will have a +0 LA.

    Also OP - Just be Pun Pun.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:30 No.6149394
    Pun pun is boring & cheesy. Not OP.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:30 No.6149395
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:49 No.6149620
    bump for Touhou brain thinkin'
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:50 No.6149633
    Dont rush the genius son
    this shits already golden
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:54 No.6149686
    Merely tying to keep this thread alive, Maybe someone should Archive?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)21:55 No.6149702
    Sorry for not mentioning this sooner, However i also have ten levels to work with.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:18 No.6149948
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    Consider that you have a -2 penalty on certain Charisma-based skill checks due to your two aberrant feats. Would you be willing to take an additional -6 penalty on Charisma-based skill checks in exchange for a 28,000 gp discount on the Wild Shape Amulet (that is, by purchasing a Skin of Kaletor from Dragon Magazine #324 instead, the hide of a certain dead bear), or would that be far too much of a sacrifice for you?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:21 No.6149973
    I find this development interesting, and I am indeed willing to go with it (When Im able to wild shape into an Elder brain who NEEDS CHARISMA?)
    Plus that means more gold for magical items elsewhere.
    >> Sleep approaches. Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:33 No.6150081
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    Let us go shopping then, shall we?

    Hand of the Mage (900 gp), Dungeon Master's Guide, page 258
    + 1 enhancement bonus to natural armor (2,000 gp), Magic Item Compendium, page 234
    + 2 enhancement bonus to Wisdom (4,000 gp), Magic Item Compendium, page 234
    + Wilding Clasp (4,000 gp), Magic of Faerun, page 167 OR Magic Item Compendium, page 190

    Skin of Kaletor (12,000 gp), Dragon Magazine #324, page 75
    + 1 deflection bonus to AC (2,000 gp), Magic Item Compendium, page 234
    + 5 resistance bonus on all saving throws (25,000 gp), Magic Item Compendium, page 234
    + 2 enhancement bonus to Charisma (4,000 gp), Magic Item Compendium, page 234
    + Wilding Clasp (4,000 gp), Magic of Faerun, page 167 OR Magic Item Compendium, page 190

    Belt of Mighty Fists +1 (4,000 gp), Dungeon Master's Guide, page 246 (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050111a)
    + 2 enhancement bonus to Strength (4,000 gp), Magic Item Compendium, page 234
    + 2 enhancement bonus to Constitution (4,000 gp), Magic Item Compendium, page 234
    + Wilding Clasp (4,000 gp), Magic of Faerun, page 167 OR Magic Item Compendium, page 190

    1,100 gp left. You thus have a mummified elf hand hanging around your gray matter, a menacing bear hide cloak which repulses just about everyone, and your Undisputed Heavyweight Champion title belt.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:38 No.6150151
    >Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:48 No.6150252
    This is the single greatest thing in DnD....like ever for me.
    Words can not express how grateful I am, Ill post here again with Tales of his adventures.
    I love you so much ;_;
    >> LH 10/05/09(Mon)22:50 No.6150265
    Alright, new questions.

    How do Half- creatures work? Is a Half-Celestial still half something else?
    As in, can there be a Half-Human Half-Celestial, or is the creature's race just called Half-Celestial?

    If it is half one half another, does it gain the bonuses of the first race as well?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)22:51 No.6150276
    Most "half-x" things are templates applied to various creatures.
    >> LH 10/05/09(Mon)22:52 No.6150279

    Answered my own question. Nevermind.
    >> LH 10/05/09(Mon)23:00 No.6150358
    Okay, new theory.

    Can one be both half Dragon and half Celestial?
    Logically I don't see the problem, but logic has no place here.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:04 No.6150385
    You can be a half-dragon of a certain celestial, or a half-celestial of a certain dragon.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:04 No.6150389
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    As for you, you have my apologies for not having turned my attention to you sooner. Since I am rather sleepy right now, all I seek is a confirmation: save-or-die/save-or-suck specialist, battlefield disabler extraordinaire, 10th-level, built from scratch. Is that what you wish for? Someone else may help you in this, though I may be able to do so with what little stamina I have left.


    Write down all of the feats you will be needing, all of the magic items, and their book sources. Print out the Thoon Elder Brain monster entry as well, along with the wild monk page from Dragon #324 (hope you can procure that, as an aside). Remember your ability score priorities: Wisdom > Charisma > Constitution > Intelligence > Dexterity > Strength.

    Also, do come up with a fabulous background to explain all of these shenanigans and post it here.


    Of course, though the +7 LA would be quite harsh, even reduced to +3 LA. I strongly suggest you stick to simply +4 LA total. In fact, if you could tell me what ability scores you were trying to increase the most through your templates, I may be able to pick out some prime templates for you.
    >> Kaiten, fist of the high forest 10/05/09(Mon)23:17 No.6150514
    >Unless you pick a Bard, like a moron.
    >pick a Bard, like a moron
    >pick a Bard
    You clearly never picked a Bard, like a moron.

    Clearly, you have never played a straight bard.
    Bard is, singlehandedly, the best class in the PHB. A bard has the ability to say yes or no to whatever the DM decides to throw at the party. Bards have the ability to do monster affecting songs that will almost always be 15-20 points higher than the monsters save before either of them roll a die. If they don't they're doing it wrong.

    Go read up before you say a class is a joke.

    That being said, thread contributan:

    Play a cleric with divine metamagic. It's amazing. The ability to twin a maximized Flame strike is ABSURD to say the least.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:32 No.6150687
    Druid 5 gets you Wild Shape.
    Warshaper 2 gives you unlimited natural attacks, and +4 Str and Con while in Wild Shape.
    Nature's Warrior 3 gives you +3 damage to natural attacks, a higher BAB, and some other trick.

    Use Wilding Clasps (allows items to remain functional while in Wild Shape) for anything you want to max out combat abilities. Amulet of Natural Weapons is a good idea.

    Wear Wild Dragonhide Full Plate - while not proficient with it, there's no armor check penalty in Wild Shape, so it doesn't matter.

    Wild Shape into MUTATED GRIZZLY BEAR BATTLE FORM and you're good to go.
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:40 No.6150778
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    Well? Is my consult needed any further?


    Druid 9/Warshaper 1 would be strictly superior to taking levels in Nature's Warrior and further levels in Warshaper, and let us not delve into Planar Shepherd.
    >> LH 10/05/09(Mon)23:48 No.6150882
    For my own amusement I am rolling the Dragon-Celestial.

    If I am using the +3 LA of a Celestial, what do I roll those three levels as? Or does it just end up being a level 7 character?
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:51 No.6150916
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    You simply do not have access to those last three levels. Of course, with the rules in the OP's game, the +3 LA should be fully mitigated, and you should have +1 more LA to spend. I would recommend spending this on the Draconic template from either the Draconomicon or Races of the Dragon, or should you wish to play up the "as broken as possible" aspect, the Mineral Warrior template from this excerpt:
    >> Anonymous 10/05/09(Mon)23:54 No.6150945

    I like Warshaper, Nature's Warrior, and even Master of Many Forms with a little house ruling so it progresses HD of things you can turn in to. But I like them for a Wildshape Ranger, who doesn't care about losing spellcasting as much as a Druid would and should trade away the Animal Companion anyway.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)01:25 No.6151954
    Can someone explain to me how dancing weapons work?

    Related questions:
    Do I need to be proficient in the weapon that is dancing?
    How do I determine its to-hit?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)01:35 No.6152050
    1. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#dancing
    2. Yes.
    3. Same as yours.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)02:13 No.6152445

    If I do not retrieve it by grasping it, can I use a standard action to activate it as soon as it is done dancing?
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)02:54 No.6152894
    Any help for the dancing?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)02:57 No.6152930
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    Hello, sirrah? Would you still be there?


    Page 58 of the official FAQ should clear some things up:
    >When releasing a dancing weapon (DMG 224), what attack modifier does it use? Does it attack on the round it is released?
    >The dancing weapon uses its owner’s base attack bonus and its enhancement bonus, but it doesn’t get any of its owner’s other attack modifiers (such as his Strength modifier, Weapon Focus, and so on).
    >The dancing weapon makes a full attack (with multiple attacks if the owner’s base attack bonus is +6 or higher) each round, starting on the round it is released.

    Any other inquiries?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)03:04 No.6152989
    >Any other inquiries?

    Are you fucking addicted to helping?
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)03:11 No.6153057


    Are the rules stated there accurate?
    If so, when a dancing weapon ceases dancing, can I spend a standard action on that turn to make it start again.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)03:17 No.6153109
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    Some days, I am a mind maid, organizing and rearranging numbers for the master to optimize their functionality, not to be confused with a Mind mage.


    That would be the case, yes. Since only your base attack bonus and the weapon's enhancement bonus matter while it is dancing in the air, however, this is a highly cost-inefficient attack method which shall cost you at least 50,300 gp per weapon.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)09:03 No.6155952
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)13:34 No.6158210
    So a human / Half-Celestial (do not count LA) fighter level 10 with the stats as follows:
    Str: 22
    Dex: 20
    Con: 22
    Int: 18
    Wis: 20
    Cha: 20

    Any equipment suggestions?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:35 No.6158227
    >Any other inquiries?
    Why do you talk like that?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)13:44 No.6158338
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    As I had stated previously, you should have +1 more LA to spend. I would recommend spending this on the Draconic template from either the Draconomicon or Races of the Dragon, or should you wish to play up the "as broken as possible" aspect, the Mineral Warrior template from this excerpt:

    Additionally, it would be important to know just what manner of fighter you would desire. Should you wish to play a trip-focused attack of opportunity fighter, for example, I am certain that certain 2-level dips in other classes would provide you with superior benefits, such as feat rogue (www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) and psychic warrior (www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm), and most importantly, crusader for the nigh-mandatory Thicket of Blades stance. Should you desire a simple Leap Attacking fighter, a 2-level dip in Lion Totem Barbarian would do you well, and if a versatile melee combatant is what you seek, then you might wish to be a Crusader 10 or a Warblade 10 from the Tome of Battle.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)13:58 No.6158543

    Ah yes, I had forgotten that you mentioned that. I may add the Draconic template, it intrigues me more than the Mineral Warrior does.

    I want one who can fight with a two-handed sword effectively, and still manage a decent AC considering my situation (a very challenging story).
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)14:10 No.6158672
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    Do spend some time going through the Tome of Battle, then, as it shall deliver unto you a greatsword fighter more competent than most Fighter 10s:

    Additionally, would your character concept be dead-set on the Half-Celestial template, or would you be open to other possibilities? The following resources provide a useful list of templates available to you; should any of these interest you, do inform me such that I may provide you with more information and an excerpt:
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)14:21 No.6158769
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    Hold on. I apologize for a vital mistake I had committed: I had erroneously assumed that the level adjustment of the half-celestial template was +3 rather than +4. In this case, you would not have an additional +1 LA to spend. The half-celestial template, while an acceptable purchase using your free +4 LA, is not particulary cost-efficient, nor does it provide you with an appreciable amount of benefits relevant to you. For example, a draconic (+1 LA) half-dragon (+3) would grant you an amazing +10 Strength, +4 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +4 Charisma, flight, and a novelty breath weapon. Similarly, being a draconic (+1 LA) spellwarped (+3 LA) creature would provide you with +6 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, +4 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, and spell resistance equal to 11 + character level. You could even be a draconic (+1 LA) woodling (+3 LA) creature for +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, a +7 natural armor bonus, and immunity to poison, magic sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, stunning, and mind-affecting spells and abilities (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), and critical hits. In fact, you can look through the spellwarped and woodling templates here:

    Of course, if your concept is set on half-celestial, then we shall proceed with that template.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)14:26 No.6158803
    >draconic (+1 LA) half-dragon (+3)

    You... you... DOUBLE DRAGON.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)14:29 No.6158832

    My my, I had confused the LA for Half-Dragon and Half-Celestial as well. Dear me.
    The alternative options you have provided seem more suited to a well developed character than to a Celestial. The flight ability given would be nice, but likely get my character eaten by a dragon, knowing my DM.

    The Tome of Battle link is greatly appreciated. Now I must attend to actual College work and shall return when I can. Again, you are a godsend to a curious player.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)14:30 No.6158846
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    Allow me to summarize each of these.

    >For example, a draconic (+1 LA) half-dragon (+3) would grant you an amazing +10 Strength, +4 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +4 Charisma, flight, and a novelty breath weapon.
    Dragon-person with mighty draconic ancestry.

    >Similarly, being a draconic (+1 LA) spellwarped (+3 LA) creature would provide you with +6 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, +4 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, and spell resistance equal to 11 + character level.
    Biological weapon forged from draconic magic who still looks mostly human.

    >You could even be a draconic (+1 LA) woodling (+3 LA) creature for +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, a +7 natural armor bonus, and immunity to poison, magic sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, stunning, and mind-affecting spells and abilities (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), and critical hits.
    Draconic plant-person.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)16:29 No.6160422
    Are there any expressed weaknesses to any of these combinations that might out-balance their significant advantages?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)16:43 No.6160570
    Black Ethergaunt Metaphysical Spellshaper 3 / Incantatrix 3.

    Cast as a level 23rd wizard.

    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)16:49 No.6160646
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    Being a woodling creature would make you receive 50% more damage from fire, and that would be it. In a normal game, the +4 LA total would be absolutely crippling, though the OP receives the benefit of free level adjustment.


    Black ethergaunts have 16 racial aberration HD and +4 level adjustment, and as such, the OP cannot play one.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)16:58 No.6160792
    Quick question for touhoufag. What build should I use to get most attacks with sword in one round. Level 20. Everything 3.5e except Faerun books. I don't need whole build. Just general hints what to use. Just one sword (No dual wield/double weapons). So far I have hasted Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10 using Time stand Still, Island in Time and then another Time stand Still (from an item) for 4x full attack = 20 attacks. Can I somehow recover that maneuver between the rounds so I don't need the item. Any other build that can beat that?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)17:11 No.6160998
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    With or without full spellcasting? A Sorcerer 6/Incantatrix 10/Abjurant Champion 4 abusing Celerity, Greater Celerity, Arcane Spellsurge, and Greater Arcane Spellsurge could generate a monstrous amount of extra standard actions and full-round actions in one turn, which would then spill over onto the next. This, of course, would come at the cost of most of your high-level spell slots.

    What might you need this for, exactly? To set a record or something similar?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)17:14 No.6161058
    No. I just think it's cool.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)17:16 No.6161093
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    Please answer the first question before I waste my time (tick tock) churning out calculations for Celerity abuse. Additionally, with or without flaws from Unearthed Arcana?
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)17:17 No.6161103

    Where might I find the Spellwarped template? I have all the monster manuals (to my knowledge) if it is listed in one of them.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)17:19 No.6161138
    Nevermind.,I'm dumb.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)17:22 No.6161181
    Without spellcasting levels. With flaws.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)17:26 No.6161241
    How does greater arcane spellsurge work and where it's from? I only remember normal one?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)17:27 No.6161258
    Half-dragon fiendish dwarf cleric/druid?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)17:33 No.6161338
    Has this thread full of win been archived yet?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)17:34 No.6161353
    Yes it was.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)18:05 No.6161758
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    I was putting together a wonderful Shadow Pouncer build, but then I noticed the provision of "except Faerun books". Ah, well. No flurrying with a greatsword through the Shou Disciple for us, either.

    In any case, your setup contains a particular flaw: a Ring of the Diamond Mind would not allow for a second usage of Time Stands Still, for I can only assume that such an item functions similarly to the Martial Study feat. So, you could receive 14 (5 + 5 + 2 + 2) attacks from a Times Stands Still maneuver while benefiting from Raging Mongoose, and then another 5 attacks from a full attack under Island in Time, for a total of 19 attacks.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)18:10 No.6161816
    Any help here?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)18:11 No.6161835
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    My mistake. The spells in question would be Arcane Fusion and Greater Arcane Fusion from page 96 of Complete Mage.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)18:15 No.6161878
    Assuming I went the Draconic Plant route, is there a way to aid that weakness to fire? My DM will exploit that to his benefit at every turn.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)18:21 No.6161936
    Now it makes sense.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)18:21 No.6161937
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    Be a Dragon Moss from Guild Wars.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)18:25 No.6161974
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    Other than spending 12,000 gp to add fire resistance 10 onto one of your items, which would, according to page 113 of the FAQ, be applied before the vulnerability is calculated. Still, should you believe your DM shall exploit this Achilles' heel of yours, it may be best to simply walk the route of the draconic half-dragon or the draconic spellwarped. You could perhaps even be a mineral warrior half-dragon or a mineral warrior spellwarped for immense cheese, though you have already expressed your disinterest in that template.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)18:27 No.6161989

    I'm just not a fan of losing stats to a template, but I do acknowledge that the stat debuffs from a Mineral Warrior wouldn't cripple a fighter in the slightest (quite the contrary). Thank you again for you help, back to the planning stage.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)18:30 No.6162011
    Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Devish 5. Take the Arcane Stunt variant from Complete Mage, selecting Expeditious Retreat.
    >> Vector !NEy29ODpvs 10/06/09(Tue)18:43 No.6162125
    rolled 20, 11, 12 = 43

    Is there anything that would allow someone to make a lake of quintessence, and what would be the best build for teleporting people into this lake from anywhere?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)18:49 No.6162200
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    As a half-Oceanus dragon, mineral warrior, water orc (www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs), you would receive net racial ability score modifiers of +14 Strength, +8 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -4 Wisdom, and -2 Charisma. With a base array of 18 Strength, 18 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 16 Intelligence, 16 Wisdom, and 16 Charisma, assuming you place your two ability score increases into Strength, you would have a herculean 34 Strength, 18 Dexterity, 26 Constitution, 14 Intelligence, 12 Wisdom, and 14 Charisma. Take the Endurance feat and the Steadfast Determination feat from page 83 of the Player's Handbook II, and suddenly, you do not automatically fail Fortitude saves on a natural 1, and you can use your Constitution modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier for your Will saving throw bonus.

    You would be an odd creature of water and earth, immune to electricity, for any current sent through you is instantly grounded by your stony composition. You can swim, fly, and breathe electricity yourself. This is akin to some sort of Pokemon, I am certain.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)18:53 No.6162239
    Heroes of Horror's Tainted Scholar with a wizard base is a great way to go.

    A creature with a nice con/wis bonus is nice. Mongrelfolk is what I suggest. Only moderate Int needed. Wisdom and Con are more important. Basically you boost your wis/con as best you can to take on as much taint(in before anything sexual) as possible to boost your spells per day and spell DCs.

    Your Taint score becomes equivalent to your int score for extra spells per day and half your int equals your DC mod. Its not hard at all to get that up in the hundred range.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)18:54 No.6162248

    What is the LA and where can I find the stats for the first two parts?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)18:59 No.6162302
    This thread has become a beautiful thing
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)19:03 No.6162356
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    I linked you a pair template indices, did you not? In any case, here would be the sources in question:

    Half-Dragon Template: Monster Manual, pages 146-147 (www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfDragon.htm)
    Half-Dragon (Oceanus): Draconomicon, pages 166-167
    Oceanus Dragon: Draconomicon, pages 181-182
    Mineral Warrior: Underdark, pages 96-97 (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e)
    Orc: Monster Manual, pages 203-204 (www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/orc.htm)
    Water Orc: Unearthed Arcana, pages 17-18 (www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs)

    This setup would also grant you a +7 natural armor bonus, damage reduction 8/adamantine, and a 1/day attack roll which receives your Constitution modifier (+8) as a bonus. You would sadly lose your flight from the half-dragon template, however, though you would concentrate on jumping from the ground for Leap Attack and/or Tiger Claw maneuvers anyway.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)19:06 No.6162384
    May I recommend the half-Titan template from Bastards and Bloodlines (a non-Wizards book, if you care)?

    Tis pretty nice.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)19:10 No.6162426
    Agh! Of course!
    I don't actually have the Draconomicon. Can someone supply?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)19:14 No.6162472
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    Quintessence by its definition in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, or by its definition in the Monster Manual V?


    Not only is that a third-party template, but its +8 level adjustment, even reduced to +4, would be far too much to bear.


    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)19:15 No.6162488
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)19:26 No.6162588
    I've heard you say that the best way to make a mystic theurge that doesn't suck is wizard/archivist. My challenge (if it could even be called that) is to simply make one that can be played from level one to twenty and still be adequate at each level.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)19:28 No.6162601
    10th level warforged artificer, with the racial substitution levels, buy ring of jump +as high as you can, use 3rd level artificer spell to change the bonus from jump to craft magic item, which you get as an artificer, make any magic item you want.... for half the xp, this is all before feats.

    Make a warforged bard, seeker of the song, take the multi song feats and the songs that deal you sub dam while increasing the dam they put out, have construct essence greater on yourself so you are immune to sub dam, never stop singing....
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)19:53 No.6162843
    you don't get level adjustment in levels
    a human half celestial has 1 hd unless they have more levels but they are the same as a 4th level character, 1 hd, powerful as 4 hd
    thats how it works
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)19:56 No.6162872
    paragon black ethergaunt/20th level wizard
    full of win, 37th level caster
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:13 No.6163023
    It's not really viable unless you can qualify for one of the other theurge classes. Can you qualify for Arcane Heirophant with racial trackless step and use Oriental Advetures? If so, then playing as a Bamboo Spirit Folk pretty much automatically qualifies you. Then you're just an early entry method to Mystic Theurge away from a viable Theurge build.

    If you want, there's an alternate method that abuses Ur-Priest/Sublime Chord.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:26 No.6163170
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    Gray Elf Archivist 2/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 10/Wildrunner 1/Arcane Hierophant 6. Enter Mystic Theurge early through Sanctum Spell, Easy Metamagic (Heighten Spell), or any other such method. By 20th-level, you should have 18th-level archivist spellcasting and 17th-level wizard spellcasting.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:36 No.6163289
    In that case, it'd probably be better to drop as many Mystic Theurge levels for Arcane Heirophant levels as possible. Arcane Heirophant has better BAB, better dice, and actual class features.

    I am curious about how you plan on meeting Wildrunner's skill requirements without tanking his skill points.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:36 No.6163293
    Random passerby and I love this Spellwarp setup here, what class/classes would you recommend to make it a true melee beast?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:53 No.6163451
    Hmm. If my DM doesn't let me use Sanctum Spell to meet the prereqs for theurge, what other viable options are there?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:02 No.6163540
    Touhou, if you're still around I have a request.

    Level 5 Uttercold Assault necromancer, +2 LA free. No flaws, all books, 36 point buy after all stats are raised to 10. Currently going with a Phrenic Human for the LA.

    Nothing really in the way of items to start, except a custom eternal wand that functions as Animate Dead 1/day, with a max of one skeleton/zombie created per casting.

    He's going to be functioning as one of two BBEGs in a dungeon creation/expansion game (where the DM throws adventuring parties at us). His companion will be another wizard, probably a summoner. I have a level 2 Dragontouched Dragonfire Adept as his minion to go out and take care of business outside, who's paired with a Tiefling Duskblade.

    How can I bring the pain on adventuring parties coming into our dungeon?
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)21:10 No.6163613
    Can someone explain bloodlines to me?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:13 No.6163652
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    We cannot enter the Wildrunner any earlier than after 13th-level due to its prerequisite of 8 ranks in Survival.


    You should not invest in +4 LA of templates in a regular game. That said, for the draconic spellwarped setup, I would recommend a class setup along the lines of (Lion Totem) Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 8 for the OP:
    Barbarian 1: Fearless
    Barbarian 1/Fighter 1: Power Attack (Bonus)
    Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 1: Improved Bull Rush
    Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 3: N/A
    Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 4: Leap Attack
    Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 5: Improved Initiative (Bonus)
    Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 6: N/A
    Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 7: Shock Trooper
    Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 8: N/A

    Tiger Claw would be the focus of maneuvers, with a dash of White Raven for the quintessential White Raven Tactics.


    Take the Easy Metamagic feat from Dragon Magazine #325 and apply it to Heighten Spell.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:18 No.6163697

    Er, meant Draconic. Would have gone with Lolth-touched for the minion's free +1 LA, but the other guy was set on being a Tiefling and I decided to keep things a bit more even.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:22 No.6163730
    didn't read the whole thread, but here's something I made up that's broken as shit:
    if you can get frostburn, make a druid/primeval of any race you can get with the highest strenght, make you chosen animal the dire boar

    Other one, if you can use the miniature handbook... try a war hulk... (+2str/level looks good)
    >> Necronomicon 10/06/09(Tue)21:26 No.6163773
    Have you ever heard of Pun Pun?
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)21:32 No.6163846
    Pun pun has been suggested at least 8 or 9 times.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:38 No.6163903
    Hello, If Touhou is still here ive also got a request

    My DM i guess wants to throw a very high leveled campaign at us, Anyway point being +7 level adjustement for free starting level one

    How do i make him regret this? I am also willing to wait a few levels till he start his regrets

    Also, All 3.5 supplements, allowed As long as its been published and i can show him a excerpt
    >> I am sleepy. Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:44 No.6163957
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    >Level 5 Uttercold Assault necromancer
    Lord of the Uttercold requires 9 ranks in Knowledge (the planes), and so this should be increased to 6th-level. A caster level of 6th for Animate Dead would result in 24 HD of undead to be controlled, and hydras happen to be the most cost-efficient skeletons in the game due to their ability to perform full attacks even after having moved in the round not being considered a special ability. Therefore, this villain of ours should be accompanied by a pair of twelve-headed hydra skeletons.

    ... ah, hold on, you are not the DM. In this case, you would unfortunately be unable to play an Uttercold caster at 5th-level. I would suggest simply playing a dread necromancer focused on feats such as Necromantic Presence and Necromantic Might instead, taking Undead Leadership at 6th-level, and waiting for the enormous payoff that is the Undead Mastery class feature at 8th-level. These three feats may be found in Libris Mortis.

    Unless, of course, you have another suggestion.


    >but the other guy was set on being a Tiefling and I decided to keep things a bit more even.
    She could simply be a lesser tiefling under the rules in the Player's Guide to Faerun for +0 LA.


    I see "broken" and "Frostburn" in your post and see no mention whatsoever of Shivering Touch, the ultimate dragon-slaying spell for archivists, clerics, sorcerers, and wizards.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:48 No.6163999
    You have my thanks.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:51 No.6164035
    It's unlikely that we'll get to level 8, given that the group won't be together for too much longer.

    >>... ah, hold on, you are not the DM. In this case, you would unfortunately be unable to play an Uttercold caster at 5th-level. I would suggest simply playing a dread necromancer focused on feats such as Necromantic Presence and Necromantic Might instead, taking Undead Leadership at 6th-level, and waiting for the enormous payoff that is the Undead Mastery class feature at 8th-level. These three feats may be found in Libris Mortis.

    Am I to infer that Dread Necromancer ISN'T a terrible class, then?
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 10/06/09(Tue)21:53 No.6164059
    In my experience Dread Necromancer is a fine class, if you ignore levels 9-20.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:55 No.6164082
    Well what would you take afterward?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:05 No.6164195
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    You are to play 1st-level characters with... free +7 LA? In the event that you are wholly serious, I suppose you could spend the entirety of that +7 LA on the Monster of Legend template from pages 213-214 of the Monster Manual II, updated in the 3.5 Update Booklet. That would grant you +10 Strength, +6 Dexterity, +10 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, +4 Charisma, a +5 natural armor bonus, a +3 untyped bonus to all saving throws, Improved Initiative and Multiattack as bonus feats, and a few special abilities of your choice. Said abilities could conceivably be 5th-level cleric spellcasting with the Protection, Strength, and War domains, the perpetual benefit of a Haste spell, AND fast healing 5. Of course, you would need to be a monstrous humanoid for this template as a PC, and the only +0 LA monstrous humanoid races are the lupin (anthropomorphic wolves) from the Dragon Magazine Compendium and the t'kel (anthropmorphic snakes) from Dragon Magazine #317, so...


    >It's unlikely that we'll get to level 8, given that the group won't be together for too much longer.
    In that case, you should simply play an archivist, cleric, sorcerer, or wizard who is not especially focused in necromancy, but who happens to maintain a pair of ten-headed hydra skeletons through Animate Dead for protection.

    >Am I to infer that Dread Necromancer ISN'T a terrible class, then?
    The familiar at 7th-level may very well be a ghostly visage from the Fiend Folio which paralyzes lesser enemies and provides immunity to mind-affecting effects, and Undead Mastery at 8th-level is quite a boon for a prospective necromancer. Of course, after that point, prestige classes such as a 1-level dip in Sand Shaper (for a greatly expanded spell list) and a full investment in Incantatrix are required to put the dread necromancer slightly back on par with the main full casters.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:16 No.6164311
    Hmm maybe, Know of any templates or whatnot to make an absurdly deadly caster?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:17 No.6164327
    >Of course, you would need to be a monstrous humanoid for this template as a PC, and the only +0 LA monstrous humanoid races are the lupin (anthropomorphic wolves) from the Dragon Magazine Compendium and the t'kel (anthropmorphic snakes) from Dragon Magazine #317, so...

    "My character is a legendary anthropomorphic wolf destined to save her people :3"
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 10/06/09(Tue)22:21 No.6164357
    Well, if you play a Psion, you can take a couple feats (Metamorphic Transfer, I think), have your Wizard buddy Polymorph Any Object you into a Beholder, then enter Beholder Mage. 20 caster levels in a 10 level class.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:27 No.6164430
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    Well, I had recommended the Monster of Legend template because I had assumed that you desired a non-caster class, as 1st-level is not very conducive to the well-being of full spellcasters. Still, the aforementioned template could serve you well there as well, for it grants you built-in 5th-level cleric spellcasting. By taking further cleric levels, you can increase this even further. Additionally, you can select the following special attack instead of Haste:
    >Enhanced Attributes (Ex): The save DC for each of the monster of legend’s special attacks, spells, and spell-like abilities increases by +4.

    That said, it would be helpful if you could inform me whether you were going for an Intelligence-based caster, a Wisdom-based caster, or a Charisma-based caster, that I may properly begin my search for templates for you.


    Polymorph Any Object can be dispelled or disjoined, unless your contact happens to be a Dweomerkeeper. But that was not what the poster in question was inquiring regarding.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:29 No.6164451
    Grab the half-titan template from Bastards and Bloodlines

    8 LA, 4 after your -4.

    That leaves you with 6 HD. Half-titans can cast like a wizard or cleric of their HD.

    Enjoy your Wizard 12 or Cleric 12, not to mention the insane stat bonuses and other goodies.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)22:33 No.6164507
    What would it take to wield a large version of a one-handed weapon normally?

    For example, if I want to wield a Bastard Sword, I take exotic weapon proficiency Bastard Sword to wield it normally. To wield a large Bastard Sword normally I would...?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:36 No.6164540
    I prefer Charisma based,

    Also you could build it as if it were level 10, I have consulted my DM and he has already stated that we would be allowed to remake at the same level we were at time of death. Ill just kill my character at tenth level
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:49 No.6164680
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    Equip yourself with Strongarm Bracers from page 139 of the Magic Item Compendium. However, this is unnecessary, and I would recommend that you simply wield a greatsword instead. My recommended feat progression for you can be found in >>6163652.


    Well, does your DM allow 3.0 supplements and Dragon Magazine? This is crucial.
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)22:50 No.6164682

    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:55 No.6164730
    Anything that's 3.5, I could probably wing it and try to convince him to let me use 3.0 however
    And Yes to Dragon Magazine
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:57 No.6164753
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:59 No.6164764
    i believe this thread is autosaging
    >> LH 10/06/09(Tue)23:06 No.6164836
    Does Weapon Proficency X weapon apply to all sizes of that weapon, or do I need to be size specific for non-normal sizes?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:10 No.6164879
    thread continues >>6164865
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:14 No.6164923
    I have a level 8 character to make, my wizard died and prefers the afterlife. I have been meaning to try something from tome of battle. I have never read the book though only heard about it.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:18 No.6164960
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    I want you to pick one of two options:

    A.) A +7 bonus to natural armor, vulnerability 150% to fire damage, and immunity to poison, magic sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, stunning, and mind-affecting spells and abilities (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), and critical hits.
    B.) +4 Dexterity, +6 Charisma, fast healing 2 in light, immunity to blindness, dazzling, dazing, and stunning, and any creature within 30 feet that looks upon you must make a Will save (DC is Charisma-based) or be dazzled by your myriad sparkles of colors and radiance.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:20 No.6164997
    first one sounds lich based, and that fire vulnerability is starting me in the eye so number 2
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:58 No.6165488
    damn liches

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