Ah, 7th Sea...

>>5528209
I'm reading the books on my computer and just squalling "FUCK YEAH" over and over again! Except for the Brotherhood of the Coast who just irritate me. And some of the secret societies. But other than that (And the map, and some of the drama dice rules), I'm really getting psyked for this game.

>>5528247

Yeah, some of the secret societies ended up COMPLETELY different from what the corebook pitched them as(I'm looking at YOU, Sophia's Daughters).

>>5528043
Wouldn't continental drift be a sub-category of geography? Meh. Either way, I agree with you, the thing looks terrible, and I can't even put my finger on why. Maybe it's the JPEG compression, I hate that shit.

And I thought Alderac did it bad with the l5r map...

(at least here they TRIED copying Europe, there... It doesn't even seem CHINA, let alone Japan, and this makes me rages)

I think you are failing to see the obviously wrong things b/c of the borders obscuring the impossibly placed rivers.

So: The River separating the 3 southern countries from everything else is impossible, or is a strait instead of a river, in which case it's absurdly long and narrow. The lake in the northeast must be a salt sea (no outlet to ocean), but is damn close to an actual ocean with no apparent reason why erosion wouldn't have connected the two. Cathy is separated from everyone else by a river connecting two oceans (NOT OK). Um ... oh, another salt sea in Eisen (like the other salt sea, it doesn't have to be a contradiction, but I see little reason for its existence). The river by numa in Vodacce appears to CROSS MOUNTAINS to get to the Empire of the Crescent Moon ...

And that's just why the rivers are wrong.

>>5528330
It probably would be, but I got this thing where I have to things in threes, and I couldn't think of anything aside from continental drift for some reason. Professor of Tectonics? Whatever.

My problem is is that few of the nations are really very separated by seas, which kind of stunts the swashbuckling theme they have got going, the mountains, deserts, and forests are thrown on seemingly at random, there's a whole bunch of peninsulas hanging off the underside of the thing like teats on a dog, and I don't see much to provoke the formation of maritime powers... Maybe it's a reference to how shitty early cartography is? Maybe Theah actually looks like a real continent, and the goofy ass artist is messing up the details?

...Or maybe I should stop treating geography as SERIOUS BUSINESS, considering I don't study it and for that matter, it's for a fictional universe?

>>5528402

Oh, actually, as I look closer, I see there are two "salt seas" in Ussura, which means the river is flowing OUT of them (rivers don't split except at deltas) which then forces the questions: "Where did the water come from?" and "Why is the river flowing out of a pair of ginormous lakes going into a mountain range and then just ENDING?"

Man, and here I thought one of the advantages of making your fantasy world just a parallel of real places was so you couldn't fuck up the geography too badly.

That is a truly awful map. Just use a blank outline of Europe and write in the names yourself.

>>5528330
Rivers cannot flow from ocean to ocean. Tree's rarely grow on both sides of large mountains. Rivers do not just end in lakes.

>>5528425
Nations don't have to be separated by seas for the sea to be the main avenue of travel and commerce between them. Ships are like faster, tireless horses and you don't need to worry about maintaining the roads.

>>5528427
>>5528402
FFFFFFFFFFYES

The fucking random ass RIVERS.

I'd like more old maps though.

>>5528427
You realize rivers don't flow south, right? They tend to flow downwards - usually from heights where alot of rain falls due to clouds becoming chilled when climbing those heights.

I see one of those rivers you're talking about, and obviously (to me) it's flowing FROM the mountain into the large lakes at the end. Speaking of Ussura.

The weirdest thing for me is the strait you point out first. The other stuff seems sort of reasonable.

Hate the font (and its colour) and border colours though.

>>5528506
Yeah, but, would you imagine Spain building a vast armada if it didn't have holdings in South America to secure?

>>5528553

See how it's flowing "into" TWO lakes? Rivers Do Not Split (except at deltas or really weird conditions), so it MUST be flowing out of them. And into the mountains. Which as you correctly point out makes no fucking sense.

And above all, failing on geography on a sail age-inspired game.

>>5528561
Yeah, who can imagine pirates growing up on the Mediterranean- oh wait...

dinotopia is the only decent map

I'm no master of geography but I can only weep at that map. The most ridiculous thing is the river that splits the continent east to west (RIVERS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY) and pierces a mountain range with what must complete lack of respect to gravity.

>>5528472
I think that's what I'm going to end up doing...

And I should restate, I'm passionately in love with 7th Sea (Post 30 Years War Germany, Netherlands/Vikings hybrid, a view of 1600s/1700s France that isn't ENTIRELY 'oh ho what pompous fools!'), but...This fucking MAP.

I wouldn't like to do it as just plain Europe, but I don't know nearly enough about geography to actually make a realistic map that wouldn't drive me nuts. And obviously I can't draw.

>>5528473
>Rivers cannot flow from ocean to ocean.
We don't know of any in our current world which aren't manmade. But there are a few shorter straits. It doesn't strike me as impossible from a plate tectonic moving apart point of view, but in that case some of those effin' mountains are placed kind of odd, I feel.

>Tree's rarely grow on both sides of large mountains.
True. You mean "large mountain ranges", I think, but that doesn't change anything for this map.

>Rivers do not just end in lakes.
Eh, it's not impossible, I think. Should depend on the ground.

Actually, there's an awfully small amount of forests here. Feels to me like there should be more. Unless this is a large steppe or something.

>>5528615

FUCK YEAR DINOTOPIA

Sorry, automatical response.

>>5528657

Rivers definitely can end in lakes, only in that case the lakes are usually called "salt seas." Think Dead Sea or Caspian Sea. Such things are not particularly common -- definitely much less common than normal lakes with exits. Generally in the bottom of a really low basin, surrounded by mountains, or some such.

Am I bad too?

>>5528647
I think there are some map making programs out there, if you don't just want to say, "Okay guys, we're playing 7th Sea. Except it's going to be set in Europe."

>>5528686
You don't bug me for some reason.

But perhaps Geography-man can put out some stuff I'm missing?

>>5528687
Any names?

>>5528657
>>5528680 here

Also, that straight really is not ok. If it were even as wide as the Red Sea (which was formed and is continuing to widen by the process you're describing). At some point Africa will split of there and then yes, there will be a strait.

But in this map, the "straight instead meanders like a river, with both shores staying the same distance and very close through a number of meanders. That's not ok.

>>5528686

You'd be better if you seemed more like Japan. This could mean some remastering of the clans, for sure.

>>5528574
Ah, but the problem is that the map is not detailed enough to show such "very weird conditions". There could be height differences, hills, rocky obstructions for the river which haven't been worn down yet... But we can't see those because we only see the really really big stuff. So I feel inclined to go for the explanation which makes more sense: Either the river flows into the mountains from two lakes in the middle of fucking nowhere, or they flow from the mountain and run into obstructions not detailed on the map. I'm going with the latter.

One thing which struck me is that Vodacce is pretty much fucked up. It's struck in the middle between two mountain ranges (nevermind how the hell that happened), which should effectively shield it from most any rain and turn it into a goddamn desert. And yet, it has a forest on one side of a mountain range, a goddamn river and a second forest on it. (I'm referring to the coriolis effect which would have most clouds moving in a spirally movement, which would make them unload most rain from either one side or the other). Though some might come from the bay next to Vodacce. Eh, I don't know. Eisen has a similar issue. The big problem is all these goddamn mountain ranges. Seriously, what the hell?

Hay guiz, am i mor reelistic nao?

>>5528686

Looks pretty much fine to me. It doesn't have rivers (which is fine if you're choosing not to show them) which eliminates the most common and easily spotted mistakes.

Protip: Coastlines can be replicated with fractal geometry. There are laws behind the shapes you see.

>>5528750

Agreed, way too many mountain ranges. I think the map maker decided where the countries were, then put a mountain range or a river on every border. Seriously, the only border that is not mountains or water is about 1/3 of the Vodacce, Castille border.

>>5528741

It's not Japan. And if you bring up the unicorn thing I will reach through the internets and choke you.

>>5528043
>>5528774
All I see when I look at that is a giant ant.

>>5528774
Looks better, but that continent-splitting... thing... needs to go. And am I seeing it branching a second time, a tributary flowing through Castille and into the southern sea? As said by someone earlier, rivers do not split like that.

I guess this thread has become "Post your RPG's map and start bitching" then?

But no, seriously, 7th Sea, awesome, deserves lots of love. Though I'd revise all the Drama Dice rules. And also, because of this thread, I'll never be able to look at the map and not be bothered again.

>>5528774

... did you just combine the 7th sea map and L5R?


... thats kinda cool.

>>5528774

Looks like some sort of donkey.

>>5528750

Also, I don't want to push this too heavily b/c I'm leaving stuff I actually know about, but the "really weird conditions" are not simple things like obstructions -- it would just go one way or the other, not both. My impression is that such conditions are either transient such as a temporary split that quickly becomes an oxbow lake, or a small island before the river quickly rejoins itself. But I'm not entirely certain about that.

>>5528774
Hooray, even more impossible rivers. There clearly weren't enough of those before and so a new one was added to split Cathay.

>>5528825

Looks like it's just the 7th Sea map done realistically.

>>5528821

Except for a river-strait in the north (why does everyone make that mistake?), that's fine. But I can't get my eyes off the river-strait.

Also, whoever drew that understood that rivers flow perpendicular to lines of constant elevation. How'd they get that right, but not fix the river-strait?

>>5528615
Looking at Rainy Basin, I don't get how the water flows North, then does a 180, and starts flowing South down a major river.
The major river has to be downslope of the basin, and I don't see any ridge that would prevent water from just flowing straight down into it rather than having the water chuck a 180.

>>5528825
No. Just Theah done realistically. But...

I'm planning, after my L5R game comes to a close, to have a 500 year time skip, then have the players start a 7th Sea game, in a race to find a route to Rokugan.

The only fly in my soup would be the updated map that Legend of the Burning Sands has... I'd have to explain a MASSIVE area. Which I can't find a map of online. So, uh, here's a picture of Suvorov crossing the Alps?

I fucking love this thread.

HEY GUYS

FAERUN HERE

WHAT'S GOING ON?

>>5528300
More like Mary Suephia's Daughters.

>>5528959
NRG

FR

I can't argue with that at all. I mean, JESUS CHRIST.

I'm just making them a Secret Society of Feminist blackmailers and manipulators that are working to bring the Great Game of Voddace to an end favorable to them instead of...Fucking THAT. Though I'm sure there are those that would call my interpretation mary sue anyway.

>>5528810

But it should be more like it. Because, I have problems imaginating many aspects of the material culture of Rokugan (which is japanese: eat fish, use wood in mass) in those great prairies.

Anyhooooow Rokugan with rivers, in pic.

Inb4 L5r fouth ed incoming.

>>5528981
WARNING
WARNING

RIVER STRAIT SPLIT ALERT

Montaigne en haut dans cela baiser fourte de mere

>>5528935
Ah, the Realms... mountain ranges that make no sense, forests strewn around without reason, climate bands... what climate bands? And Anauroch takes the cake, I think they first slapped it there and only much later came up with an explanation as to why it manages to exist.

So I says to myself, I says, "Hey, if /tg/ is unhappy with 7th Sea's map, why not just go ahead and make a remade map that makes some more sense, cribbed off of Europe, and get advice from /tg/ until we make something good?"

Then I saw that Campaign Cartographer is in twelve parts on /rs/.

Bugger that.

>>5528980
Besides a few mechanical issues, what really bugs me about 7th Sea is the metaplot/NPCs. SUDDENLY, TINY CTHULHUS CRAWLING ALL OVER EVERYTHING! Every secret society is really about SEKRIT ALIENS!

>>5528425
No, geography IS serious business and retarded ass maps infuriate me too.

>>5529011
Mi Castillian madre duerme con usted que usa una correa encendido.

>>5529060
...Well, I haven't gotten that far in the metaplot yet, so I can pretend that never happens.

Seriously? Aliens? When I heard complaints that the reveal had the magic system had Lovecraftian origins, I thought they would be, y'know, not amateurish.

Well that's very disappointing. CCG METAPLOOOTTTTTT.

So, drop some spoilers... what IS the metaplot?

Saw what you will about Legend of the Five Rings metaplot fuckings that the card game threw on to it: It may have killed your favorite character, screwed over the time line, had your clan act stupidly out of character... But at least it hasn't killed the game line yet.

Poor 7th Sea...

Throwing in a couple of real maps for comparison.

>>5529149

>>5529146

Don't worry, 3.5 ED lasting an year probably will kill it.

In 2010, ALL HAIL YOUR 4TH ED

>>5529198
...they have a new edition of L5R? Already?

>>5529060
>a few mechanical issues

I did some math on roll-and-keep for some homebrew, and it essentially became impossible to fail on far less dice than I thought. Is this said issue, or does it actually work out ok and I'm missing something else?

>>5529178
And a bit of an older one.

It's not as accurate, of course.

Also, though it might not be relevant here, maps aren't made in a vacuum. They're frequently used for political ends. As such, they're not unbiased. Also, accurate maps used to be closely guarded secrets back in the day.

Anyway, 7th Sea... No, you don't need a fucking natural barrier for each country border. Mountain ranges don't just pop up all over the place and leave the climate unaffected. And that long strait is just inviting critique, and makes people notice other flaws.

Should've just cribbed a European map or something and shaved off/reorganized edges a bit, adjusting rivers and climate a bit. Er, or something.

Okay, I'll bite.

What do I need to do to make a realistic map of 7th Sea?

This thread's gotten me interested.

Speaking of Fantasy maps, I'll throw in Sweden's most popular RPG setting - before Eon or the Trudvang version that is (couldn't find a map of the current version).

Here ya go, Ereb Altor. Made sometime during the late 80ies/early 90ies.

THe problem with retooling the map is, some game components and adventures likely rely on certain things being in certain places - like the fact that you CAN sail through the continent along that ridiculous river - which will inevitably break things. Or need you retooling more than just the map.

>>5529208

Don't worry man, I'm raging as hard as you are.

That said to be fair AT THE VERY LEAST it seems 4th would be story-neutral, you choose the period you like, metaplot seems it will be developed in other parts. Which, considering how much l5r lolcards/OH NOES IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD EVIL AT THE GATES metaplot sucks, is good.

But I really think this will kill Alderac child, or anyway cripple it seriously. What kinda period is this for throwing out new editions with idiotically short terms for the old, goddamn?

>>5529259
I'd consider the mountain ranges - plate tectonics and such. Then there's those enormous rivers running through the place at a couple of places. And the rivers flowing oddly.

Consider what consequences the mountain ranges have on the surrounding fauna.

I think that's some of the most annoying ones?

>>5529198
Actually if you go by the attitude on AEG's forums most people are glad a new edition is coming out. 3ER was horribly rushed out and was a terrible book. 4E is looking like they learned from that mistake, it has had a year and a half at writing and playtesting. I hope they keep it on the drawing board until it is done and do not rush it out for Gen Con next year.

>>5529099
>>5529125
Okay, so, basically in the past the senators of TOTALLY NOT ROME GUYS, WE SWEAR, SERIOUSLY made a pact with some creepy things from Beyond the Whatever and got SORCERY FOR THEIR BLOODLINES.

Then it turns out that, oh yeah, every time you use sorcery you weaken the fabric between our world and theirs. (This was revealed AFTER the first book, so people already had reasonable, nice, non-evil sorcerer characters.)

Also, oh yeah, the "revolutionaries, fuck the nobles!" secret society? ACTUALLY WE'RE ABOUT HUNTING SORCERERS LOL. Knights-Templar secret society? ACTUALLY WE'RE ABOUT SAVING THE WORLD FROM THE CTHULHUS, LOL, WE HAVE A MAGIC CLOAK THAT LETS US SEE THEIR WORLD AND WE USED IT TO STOP AN ASSASSIN.

And oh yeah the Sidhe are aliens but they're totally nice aliens for reals.

>>5529302
I'm thinking of splitting the continent in two along the strait/river divide, so there's actually a sea in between the two, with a Gibraltar situation over on the Ussura/Crescent Empire side- Cathay is rare and exotic anyway, so it should be damn hazardous to get through that end of the straight.

Though, I think turning Castille/Voddace over might also be called for then, to prevent total isolation on their part- maybe some island hopping between the two? Would make it look like a big mouth then. I dunno. I'M BAD AT THIS.

>>5529357
...Alright, I wasn't really minding that stuff about Totally Not Rome breaking some kind of demonic pact until it got into "LOL MAGIC BONES WORLD" and that secret society shit. 7th Sea is about more fun and swashbuckling, so that clashes with the magic eating reality thing, and then the secret societies... Just...

Also, fuck the Fair Folk. Just do 'em like the Changeling kind of Fair Folk, then it'll be good.

>>5529340

The fuck? Gencon? 4th is gonna be there in first quarter of 2010. So much for your hopes of taking it slowly, it seems.

Also, I don' mind much another core (well, they're cocksuckers if they did 3ED badly, but at least I didn't buy that), but what I mind is having all the other books redone.
And yes I know I could just use the old ones, you got my point.

>>5529315
I kind of shuffle off the Shadowlands to their own corner anyway... It's kind of annoying having the incarnation of darkness popping up around you constantly going "HAY GUYS HOWS IT GOIN' LOL" every two years.

I don't like that 4th is coming out so soon leaving 3rd revised hanging in the breeze, but I'll remain optimistic. Also sounds good they're the RPG from being tugged around so damn much by the metaplot as well.

I dunno. The big thing I'm worried about is the line's survival.

>>5529295
What can you tell me about this mysterious Swedish RPG?

7th Sea is dead, isn't it?

SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A JOB FOR THE /tg/ HOMEBREW CREW TO REVISE 7TH SEA THEN!

>>5529424

Not that the Shadowlands were anywhere something very good IMHO.

Goddamn, I'm raging.

>>5529424
The CCG is going strong and that is what finances the RPG. As long we have the first we will probably have the second.

>>5529470
I don't like them either... But, well, I kind of feel compelled to have them hanging around, otherwise... Well. I'm actually trying to summon up a reason other than "It's in the book" and I can't find it. Hrm.

>>5529480

I know, I know. Well, not so sure the CCRPG is as strong now with this economy.

The fact that I'm somewhat expecting the fukken books is what make me rage most. I'm weak, but... I liked so much skipping through EE...

It's your fault not putting them into /rs/, /tg/!

>>5529466
Never gonna happen. /tg/ only loves itself, DnD, and 40k, and only the porn of 40k and stats for rape in DnD at that.

>>5529523
>CCRPG

Collectible Card Role Playing Game?

I have a love hate relationship with the CCG. On the one hand, it makes fucking stupid things happen in the metaplot. On the other hand, it actually keeps the RPG going.

I actually should try picking up the card game sometime, huh?

>>5529433
Eh, it's the official setting for Drakar och Demoner (Eng: Dragons and Demons, commonly shortened DoD, also known as Dragonsfire internationally I think). Up until 5th edition of the RPG. Pretty much generic fantasy setting-wise. There was a thread about Target Games(the name of the company which released the RPG once they went international) a bit back where I gave a rundown on the Swedish history of RPGs. Check suptg, think you can still find it in the displays. Lazy DM V is in the descript (the archiver screwed up the tags a bit).

Standard fantasy setting though it was, there was this epic campaign called the Fifth Conflux(translated name) or somesuch, starting with an adventure called Sulphur winter(also transl). Sort of wanted to play that. Supposedly it's pretty damn good.

Here I think we have some good local-made RPGs, but oddly enough very few have proper new maps: you have to use real world maps, slightly alterated, for an alternate history Rome or zombies against the nazis.

>>5529302

That abominable river could perhaps be explained as a channel dating back to Numan times. Not sure how to determine where the natural river should flow, though. One west, one east, I should think, with the split somewhere between the two lakes.

>>5529739
Do you mean a natural channel, or a man made channel? I'm fond of having "A Wizard Did It" but that massive of a man made channel would be seriously pushing it to me, especially in a low magic setting like 7th Sea.

>>5529739
>That abominable river

I don't care how, but in my upcoming 7th Sea game I'm going to refer to this delightful river rage through out it.

>>5529760

Manmade-with-sorcery.

Because Roman Empire Equivalent + Slaves + Magic = Think Big.

>>5529782
Hmmm...

That might be alright, actually, if we put a Robert E. Howard spin to it. Something like Serpent People in an age past yadda yadda actually I don't know where I'm going with this.

But that idea could work. It's just I'd have to tailor it to my personal idea of what could mesh well in 7th Sea's swashbuckling setting.

Maybe have a whole bunch of ancient I Can't Believe It's Not Roman work sites from the ancient era that the big bad wants to control to mess up the strait's flow?

Your LOTR map just got more real.

http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/121-where-on-earth-was-middle-earth/

>>5529814
Bookmarked. Thanks mate.

>>5529808

Well, a pretty standard excuse for "We have no idea how it works!" in 7S is "Syrneth Did It". Even when you ignore the later meanderings of the metaplot (like, everything after that island rose.)

I fare well with a campaign set in the Eisen Unification Wars of the early 1700s, myself.

I look at the 7S map, and what I see is a poorly executed attempt to make logic work in their world.

I think they made the map first, without stupid rivers and mountains. Later, someone pointed out that there's no reason for most of the countries on the landmass to develop significant naval force. So they said fuck it, and threw some mountains and rivers on there to make travel impossible except by sea.

I've never played, but it looks like they did alright making Vendel out to be Viking territories, as they don't seem like they'd have much in the way of arable land.

You know what I'd really like to be on /rs/ on the subject of maps?

http://www.kalimedia.com/Atlas_of_True_Names.html

>>5529998
I freaking love the Vendel/Vesten. It's the perfect combination of the United Provinces and the Vikings. And it actually kind of makes sense!

It's just the rest of the continent. There has to be a way to make it work, without ruining the setting...

>>5530006
Wow. That actually looks really badass.

>>5528896
FUCK YEAH SUVOROV

Rifts is a chaotic mish-mash of so many things fantasy and scifi that it should fall on it's ass and explode, but somehow manages to be a believable and fun setting. Palladium has some great writers working on Rifts.

It's a dirty rotten shame that they're not so fantastic at making a good rule system.

>>5530053

Frustrating think is that I can't see how my city is supposed to be called! And no, they don't sell in my country.

Anyway names seem pretty more logical than I would have thought. Seine is kinda gentle.

>>5529814
Sweden apparently ate Denmark though.

>>5528574
It's possible that one is flowing into the lake and that the other is a tributary flowing out of one.

Does anyone know of any site or so somewhere which lists "21 common mistakes on fantasy world maps" or so? Currently poking around a bit with trying t design a bit of a world, and it would be nice if I could avoid the worst sins.

>>5530345
Not really, but you can just look up the rules about rivers, and mountains. Those are the most common mistakes- although you'll need to remember climate bands. And the effects of y'know what fuck it, you're going to need to take a college course for this.

>>5530361
Feared as much.

>>5530072
Yeah, it is soooo believable that Vampires that can be killed with squirt guns manage to hold an empire in Mexico...Rifts is one of the most incoherent settings out there. I have never understood why it gets such high marks by anyone older than 16. There are nuggets of good amongst the mountains of shit but even the good is not that good.

>>5530383
Sorry dude. I don't know enough about the subject, but if I did, I would totally hook you up with some info if I could.

Bump for cartography! I fucking love this shit!

This is a video game map.

The designer clearly knew nothing about geography, but they did know that chokepoints help direct player actions.

PCs start in Montaigne, which has low-level monsters. Travel south to Castille as part of a quest. They want to go to Eisen, the bridge has monsters. When they finally do get to Eisen, they find out it's at war with Vodacce, which becomes the bad guy for awhile. Then they discover the LOL SECRET PATH through the mountains to the Empire of the Crescent Moon, who are struggling to keep the real threat at bay, Ussura.

And yet... it's a game about boats. Go figure.

>>5530345

If you're still there, this is not what you requested but in the same vein. Try
http://forum.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=3822
for rivers (and that forum generally for mapmaking) and
http://www.cix.co.uk/~morven/worldkit/climate.html
for climate.

>>5530463
"I have never understood why it gets such high marks by anyone older than 16."
16 = the Age of Rifts. Rifts players chronologically older than 16 = arrested development retards.

7TH SEAAAAAAAA

Take a good look at that map.
Realize that it's a game about swashbuckling and piracy.
Notice it takes place on ONE CONTINENT, with NO reason to sail between locations.

THE ENTIRE SETTING MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE.

>>5532130
Well yeah, but otherwise they'd have to trip up on the mine field of slavery, and aboriginal genocide. So, commence pussing out!

>>5528615
Is it me or does the map look like Antarctica, but without the ice?

>>"I love this RPG except..."
DnD has armor written as damage avoidance rather than damage absorbtion, which it really is. Plus they still use anachronisms like "chainmaile" when it was just called "maille". Studded leather never existed other than mis-identified brigantine or coats of plate by the writers of the original rules.

The katana is NOT a superior weapon. Only a glorified cavalry sword. That shit can't penetrate 20 guage steel. For those not in the know, european plate armor was around 18 guage hardened steel by modern estimates.

Bows do about the right amount of damage. Bows did not penetrate plate armor beyond 50 feet on a direct shot. However, the power of the bow shall always be in the sheer numbers that they were used in hopes that a knight's horse was killed in a mass volley.

>>5532257
Ya except you know... a wizard did it.

>>5532130
Swashbuckling, sure; piracy, optional. 7th Sea is as much inspired by Robin Hood or the Three Musketeers as it is Treasure Island.

But still, there's plenty of scope for a full-on nautical campaign. Two major nations are on islands and even if you live on the continent only Porté is quicker than sailing for travelling long distances. And boats are by far the most efficient way to transport goods in bulk, so there's plenty of scope for piracy. The designers just wanted to build a bigger, more coherent world than just some swashbucklers on the high seas.

I LOVE 7th Sea. It's just that...Everything looks like it's glommed together, so I have to wonder if naval battles would be possible. I mean, 7th Sea even off boat is awesome, it's just, well, I dunno how often I can justify going on boat, y'know?

worst. map. ever.

Man, this reminds me. I had an awesome Zorro-style character that I never really got a chance to play. Lots of fun attitude/background-wise, and she had a thing where she'd use Corps-a-Corps or Pommel Strike to lower someone's TN to 5, then quickdraw a pistol (pirate trick) and shoot them for MAJOR DRAMATIC WOUNDS and everybody going "oh fuck shit just got serious".

>>5532354
>piracy, optional.
It's called 7th SEA, and the only book cover I've seen that I can recall has someone standing by the rigging of a sailing ship.
I think one is hard-pressed to claim there isn't a strong nautical element presented by the game.

See, I want to revise 7th Sea now. Revise the map, and shake off the metaplot, and maybe do some reconfiguring of magic rules and drama dice. There is an EXCELLENT game and setting under that, and it's not even buried deep like RIFTs.

>>5532433
Also she had like six names because she was Castillian (read: Spanish). Shit was fun.

>>5532475
Don't forget to throw out the ridiculous NPCs that do everything important.

>>5532273
Too many people are using this bullshit excuse to try to get away with being lazy, stupid, or both.

>>5532426
Really? What's so bad about it?

The mountain ranges look plausible enough, the rivers run down to the sea. It's a hell of a lot better than the 7th Sea one anyway.

>>5532494
I'd keep Kheired Din though, he makes a good antagonist.

But the mary-sues've gotta go. Top of the list? Allende and his fucking stupid lawful good Brotherhood of Pirates.

>>5532426
That's one the best maps, it's just a distorted real earth map.

>>5532441
Well yeah, that's pretty much what they sell it as because it's a familiar and appealing concept for a game.

But it'd be selling the game short to pigeonhole it as nautical adventure fantasy when they've gone and redrawn all of Renaissance Europe as a D&D setting.

>>5532426
What I hate about is that the entire empire is basically forest. YOU CAN'T RUN AN EMPIRE ON FOREST FFFFFFFFF. One of the main things I hate about Warhams and almost all other settings is that they have no idea how logistics and economics work. Sure you have a huge army of a million men, but you have like 5 peasants. Who feeds them? Who equips them? Where did they get their horses, and who feeds the horses? Where does your saddle come from? Who drives the wagon carrying your tents? Where are all the camp followers? Who supports the camp followers? Where are the merchants, and how do they ship things to you? How much does it take to feed your army per day, and how do the supplies get there? and on, and on, and on.

>>5532666
This, OH GOD this.

>>5532666
I gotta say, you're a bit smarter than I thought you were. I've never even thought about that kind of thing before.

>>5532666
This was covered in more depth in WFRP 1st edition which got into settlement patterns and the likelihood of finding a village in any given area, but the gist of it is that the Empire is covered in varying degrees of forest with the routes between cities being particularly well-settled and intensively farmed.

Somewhere like the Reik valley is obviously going to have a lot of farms about, it just fades into the wilderness quicker than you might expect since in Warhammer the woods are actively hostile and filled with monsters.

>>5532666
And hey, Camp Follower is a playable career in WFRP 2e. Looting the baggage train was a valid tactic in WFB 3. They do think about this sort of shit from time to time.

highly relevant to this conversation:

http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm

My only gripe with 7th sea is their insistence to have every fucking thing from 16 to early 19 century crammed into a couple decades of the default timeline. Reformation and Napoleon at once do not fucking blend.
Otherwise, setting is fine and the rules... well, good for a change.

>>5532983
>>5533008
I know all that, but they don't show it on the map and that's what I bitch about. I just kind of went off on a semi-related tangent.

>>5532433

Ah, Svordsman Schools...
So many way to humiliate and kill a foe, so little time and xp to learn them.

>>5534817

Villanova School fencing or bust, motherfuckers!

my friends 7th Sea campaign died after only 3 sessions because of everyone's conflicting schedules. i lol'd

bump for map-haitng awesomeness

>>5534928

Eisenfurst is superior, Vodacce cur.

>>5531050
Thanks