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  • File : 1249857625.png-(55 KB, 632x346, laserpistolufopedia.png)
    55 KB GURPS: Enemy Unknown Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)18:40 No.5395907  
    Okay /tg/ GURPS: Enemy Unknown time.

    Today: Equipment, research and manufacturing.

    One question that has been plaguing me is whether or not to adhere fairly strictly to the origional research tree and in fact the entire way research works.

    For example: it always seemed odd to me that you has to research each individual plasma weapon fairly extensively before any of your soliders could use them in combat, I understand that alien weapons aren't safe to play around with, but surely once you know how a plasma pistol works it wouldn't take days of dedicated study by scientists to figure out how a plasma rifle works.

    Also your suggestions on how facilitate research mechanics within the game would be appreciated, personally I am in favour of using an exact copy of the one used within the game with each technology requiring a certain quantity of man-hours put into it prior to completion.

    Ideas for additional equipment that isn't in the origional game and for additional technologies or areas of research that players could delve into are welcome, as are suggested stats for existing or new weapons and equipment that you think x-com operatives should or would have access to.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)18:53 No.5396018
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    Just to start the thread off on a research related note there was always one thing that I thought could use a bit of work was that whenever you researched something the end result was always a reliable, functional technology that didn’t have any horrible drawbacks or fatal bugs, that’s just no fun.

    So I was thinking that during the early stages of weapons/equipment development it should be possible for the players to get some experiment, barely working technology from the eggheads. Whilst researching laser weapon the scientists might produce a large chemical powered laser weapon that whilst potent is heavy, has limited fuel and is powered by a backpack carried tank of corrosive chemicals, or whilst researching powered suits the operatives can get their hands on some unarmoured powered exoskeletons that enhance their speed and strength, but due to the elerium power source being removed for use in other items it has a limited power supply.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)19:17 No.5396268
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    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)19:23 No.5396348
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    I suppose the aliens may have gene locks on their weapons, if the're smart enough anyway... It also seems a little odd, and bothers me that lazer weapons come out so, quickly, yet basically no other pure-human tech is used.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)19:30 No.5396403
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    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)19:38 No.5396466
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    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)19:43 No.5396507
    Is /tg/ preoccupied tonight or what?
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)20:10 No.5396678
    Is that origional content?
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)20:41 No.5396962
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    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)20:47 No.5397009
    Why yes it is.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)20:49 No.5397021
    Well, you could just combine all plasma weapons into one broad category, and then a much shorter research time for specific weapons.

    And I like that idea of experimental equipment. I like it a lot.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)21:34 No.5397492
    Bump for xcom and an actual traditional game at the same time.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)21:41 No.5397561
    You forget that X-COM regulations forbid R&D from giving out anything they can't manufacture. I say that while you can't get heavy plasma guns from the stocks after researching plasma pistols, but you CAN grab a heavy plasma gun from a dead alien and use it. Same goes for cxlips. You can't reload a weapon without a thorough research of the clip, but you CAN reload heavy plasma after researching plasma pistol clips.

    For hilarity, exchange "can't" with a roll on the Enigmatic Alien Device Button-Pushing Table from GURPS IOU.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:15 No.5397837
    I'd consider learning GURPs to play this, you know. Are you going to compile all the stuff together once you're done?
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:17 No.5397856
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    Since no one else seems to have any interest at all... have the Random Side Effect Table and the Enigmatic Alien Device Button-Pushing Table.

    The red line says "Read the paragraph to the right first, then continue below".
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:25 No.5397929
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    Sure, why not.

    Also, there is an enigmatic item table in the 4th edition campaigns book, it's the same thing pretty much.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:27 No.5397947
    Shit, I totally forgot the word RIFLE in that one.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:28 No.5397959
    Sorry, I wasn't aware of that.
    I'll make sure this gets archived. Could you collect all the weapons and armor data later? I want to make an effort and convert it back to 3e, for my own sake. I stick with it, far more sourcebooks.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:30 No.5397984
    >5d + 2 pi damage
    >Damage using irrational numbers

    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:32 No.5398003
    Piercing damage, Sir.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:35 No.5398022
    Archiving thread 5395907
    Thread found.
    Thread is not currently archived; creating entry.
    Sanity checking passed. Continuing with archival.
    Downloading images... 9 found, 9 new. Done.
    Downloading thumbnails... 9 found, 9 new. Done.
    Updating links... 0 full images found. 9 thumbnail links found. 0 deleted image links found. Done.
    Creating file... Done.
    Thread 5395907 is now archived.

    Go on, OP. It's a rare thing to get shit done.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:35 No.5398025
    Sure, I would be happy to collate all of that stuff. But before that's going to be possible I am going to need more people who know 4th edition to propose stats and revisions and all that guff. You know, just to be sure.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:39 No.5398050
    Why does the laser pistol have recoil at all? The finished device runs on solar power, which means no chemical laser, which in turn means no recoil from a chemical reaction.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:43 No.5398087
    1 = no recoil
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:46 No.5398112
    it doesn't have recoil, but rookies all have Parkinson's
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:50 No.5398148

    Rcl (Recoil)
    Firearms only. A measure of how
    easy the weapon is to control when firing
    rapidly: the higher the value, the
    less controllable the weapon. Rcl 1
    means the weapon is recoilless, or
    nearly so.
    When firing at RoF 2+, every full
    multiple of Rcl by which you make
    your attack roll means you score one
    extra hit, to a maximum number of
    hits equal to total shots fired; see Rapid
    Fire (p. 373). (Firearms with RoF 1 still
    list Rcl, for use with certain rules.)
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:50 No.5398155
    Heated Air expansion from the beam could cause negligible recoil even without a large mass reaction.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:57 No.5398206
    The very first retarded change I spot in GURPS. Recoil 0 would be no recoil in 3e.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)22:59 No.5398218
    A complete makeover of the recoil rule. Good to know.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:10 No.5398313
    The number of shots that hit when you autofire is (Margin of Success/Recoil). Recoil 0 would mean that INFINITY SHOTS hit each time.
    Is dat enuff dakka?
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:12 No.5398326
    Well, in 3e, it was the to hit penalty. 0 for no recoil, -1 for -1 to hit, you get the drill. Autofire was a completely different thing.
    >> Devious Bastard !!nFMim/8UHrr 08/09/09(Sun)23:12 No.5398333

    Never enuff DAKKA.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:12 No.5398334
    dividen dakka by zero
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:13 No.5398335
    You forgot this part:
    >to a maximum number of
    hits equal to total shots fired

    Every shot hitting makes perfect sense if recoil is the only thing spoiling your aim.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:14 No.5398341
    Of course, the maximum number of hits can't exceed the number you fired. This is GURPS, we're not retards.
    But any grot firin' less den 'finity shotz is mukkin about!
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:14 No.5398343
    Again, rookies all have Parkinson's.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:17 No.5398362
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    I will keep making these until and slapping on the stats I think are best/make the most sense until someone suggests otherwise. I trust that so far both the pixel art and the stats are fine with everyone?
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:33 No.5398484
    They're great, but wouldn't it be more efficient to slap togethjer stats and fluff as text, post them first and make the fancy stuff for a later collection?
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:40 No.5398565
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    Well, I could do that, but eh, I think that this way works too.

    Incidently my laser rifle design here is a bit of a departure from the origional, but I think it looks okay and it preserves the origional colour scheme, which I think is what is important.

    Stats wise this weapon is literally a high energy laser rifle plucked right out of the Ultra-Tech book, the only difference is the infinate power source. I considered making it a pulse laser rather than a regular one, but pulse lasers suck dicks due to their lack of an armour divisor.

    Comments regarding lasers anyone?
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:45 No.5398608
    laser rifle is exclusively earth tech, no alien tricks or E-115 involved.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:46 No.5398614
    That's the origional text.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:50 No.5398642
    Or is it? I looked it up on that one Xcom site to find the origional text, then I loaded up Xcom and read the UFOpedia entry, and it's different. Huh.

    Why would they lie to me?
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:52 No.5398666
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    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:52 No.5398677
    Where you get the pics?
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:53 No.5398681
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    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:55 No.5398701
    You can make a laser rifle before you know what elerium is or even before you meet a single alien or UFO. It's stupid to say it uses elerium as a power source. I don't know why your version of the game says that.
    >> Anonymous 08/09/09(Sun)23:58 No.5398731
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    >OP's pic
    >lacks the power source to become a truely effective weapon
    >become a truely effective weapon
    >truely effective
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:00 No.5398748
    It origionally struck me as being odd too, but like I said, I took the text from this website:


    I assumed it to be accurate. It apparently isn't and I'll amend it momentarily. The Ufopedia entry in my game is the same as any other one.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:02 No.5398762
    What the hell. That's not what my version says.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:03 No.5398777
    This is a shoop. I can tell from the pixels and from shooping many a whoop in my life.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:05 No.5398788
    That's not Xcom 1. That's a fan made Pocket PC XCom game.

    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:05 No.5398791
    Looks like someone's home mod of the weapons? Maybe they changed a few non-laser weapons and did up the fluff text on the rest. It's not hard to do.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:07 No.5398829
    A couple of those entries are just plain false. For example it states that you can't make plasma weapons, which you can. This kind of leads me to believe that those images were either taken from an unusual version of the game, or a modded version of the game.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:10 No.5398872
    That's not quite right. They guy who runs that site made the game, but the ufopedia pages are about the origional games.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:14 No.5398913
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    There you go. All fixed.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:16 No.5398933
    This shall be known as the great laser rifle fiasco.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:17 No.5398951
    On of the optional XCOMUTIL mods changes laser weapons to be more powerful and use elerium
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:20 No.5398992
    Looks like we have the culprit.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:22 No.5399023
    I always pictured the Xcom lasers as having a dangerous backpack filled with chemicals or exotic radioactives. Like that laser infantry weapon which could shoot constantly for 2 years the US wanted to make until someone pointed out that having containers filled with americium in places where they're likely to be shot is a very bad idea.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:25 No.5399053
    OP here, I think I'm done for tonight, tomorrow I'll write up the weapons, post their statlines and then make pictures of them, whilst I'm doing that people can contribute ideas or changes to stats at their whim.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:25 No.5399061

    As I recall, the novelization said that the weapons were dna coded, and would not fire in human hands. The research time was learning how to get around this and teaching it to the soldiers.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:32 No.5399161
    I always pictured the Heavy Lasers did that.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:34 No.5399184
    Rookies being fucking idiots, designing a training program to teach them how to use their guns probably took quite a bit of time.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:38 No.5399235
    Laser weapons having a backpack full of toxic volatile chemicals taking up all the backpack slots and acting like a high-explosive with timer 0 if the soldier carrying it is killed.

    That's how to make xcom even more deadly for rookies.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:40 No.5399258

    You get a bit of alien...strap it here.. and the bobs your uncle it works.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:40 No.5399262
    >That's how to make perfect ufo door openers.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)00:41 No.5399274
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    >rookie training

    I can't help but imagine hundreds of X-COM rookies dying because they crossed the streams.
    >> Rookie M Leonardo 08/10/09(Mon)00:41 No.5399280
    So I strap the bit of alien to my thigh?
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)01:00 No.5399558
    Rubber globes smeared with alien blood.
    >> Rookie Donatello Nevarri 08/10/09(Mon)01:04 No.5399614
    I think I have my gloves inside out, it feels squishy.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)01:26 No.5399867
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)01:27 No.5399880
    Quite strange that humans can manufacture reverse-engineered alien guns that don't have that stuff. The novelization is full of shit.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)01:59 No.5400256
    How is that strange? It's a fair enough explanation as to why you can't pick alien guns off the ground and shoot them before they've been researched.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)07:21 No.5402787
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    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)07:22 No.5402792
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    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)07:37 No.5402868
    and you kow if it's being played like this, one of the player is going to go "I pick up the alien gun and squeeze the trigger" before it's researched. Better to tell them it's dna locked rather than they're too stupid to tell which end is which without weeks of researc.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)08:40 No.5403127
    Didn't OP suggest some GURPS table for what happens when you try and use weird alien tech? Random backfiring, injuring random people, etc etc.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)10:04 No.5403587
    "its got a trigger and a grip, why should i have to roll on a table dude I point it and pull the trigger"

    You don't know the people I play with.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)10:11 No.5403624

    PROTIP: Roll behind the screen for them and describe in detail what awful fate befalls them for not being more cautious\less stupid. Alternatively, find better players.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)10:14 No.5403642
    I imagine 40k plasma guns. Theoretically safe to use if you know how. If not, a few quick trigger pulls means a glowing crater.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)10:19 No.5403661
    In regards to XCom operatives using weapons that haven't been researched:

    Alien weapons should require their own category (ie, Guns: Plasma) and operatives can't put more then a single point into it until it has been researched (and can only put points into it if they have a lot of experience, at least one mission worth of use)
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)10:32 No.5403738
    So how about the alien stats? Can we start on them?

    If laser rifles only do 3d damage (albeit with armour piercing 5), then Sectoids must have very human stats, in fact they probably have less hit points then an average human. A Chryssalid on the other hand.... HP20 perhaps? With DR2-4.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)10:35 No.5403750
    With using alien guns unresearched it shouldn't be too hard. Just remember this:

    Laser and plasma guns should have their own categories. You can default to another Guns skill at -4, but if you are not familiar with the weapons you'll get -2 for a total of -6 to use. In a 3d6 game -6 to a stat is pretty damaging. Sure, they can get over this handicap by spending time practising with the gun, doing a few missions with one and spending a few points, but they won't be able to get replacements or ammunition if the research hasn't been done. So it should even out.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)10:38 No.5403773
    As an alternative to giving the aliens ridiculous Strength and HP stats, I should point towards buying levels of Hard to Kill. Effectively, this will give them more HP, but in a semi-random kind of way. They'll be able to survive death rolls and go into more negatives. At the same time, they might not. If done right, this ought to represent X-Com's weapon damage where a heavy plasma will probably kill a Muton in one shot.... but might not.

    The aliens have an alien physiology so are not bound by human limitations. They could have Hard to Kill 1 - 5.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)10:58 No.5403916
    I'm thinking if you want to frig around with the research rules for alien weapons, have say, one third R&D time in order to use existing weapons, then full to produce your own copies, and have each successive weapon research cut the time for the next research in the same category halve the respective time. IE Heavy Plasma is still 800 hours to schematic, but 266 to use in battle and would only be 400 to schematic if you've researched a plasma weapon before, 200 if you've done both.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)10:58 No.5403922
    Okay, possible Sectoid stats?

    ST: 10 HP: 8 Base Speed: 5
    DX: 10 Per: 11 Base Move: 5
    IQ: 11 Will: 11 Thrust Damage: 1d-2
    HT: 10 FP: 10 Swing Damage: 1d-1

    Combat Reflexes
    Night Vision: 4

    Still unsure of a way to simulate how aliens don't take Fatal Wounds. They still take shock from damage, so perhaps not High Pain Threshold.
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)11:01 No.5403938
    I'm not terribly happy with that. Does anyone here think Sectoids should have Combat Reflexes as standard?
    >> Anonymous 08/10/09(Mon)11:06 No.5403983
    The weapon stats as posted aren't right. A bullet pistol has better total range then a bullet rifle which is also a type of sniper rifle? What! Also, the difference in range of a laser pistol and a laser rifle are way too far apart.

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