ITT: how to hamstring your players

no offense, op, but you sound like a bit of a control freak

Keep things on topic. it is very important that subject not wander too much. But if everyone is having fun, dont shut it down too much.

Be prepared to improvise. The players never do what you expect.

Have a stock of NPCs. just pull one out whenever a new NPC you didn't expect is needed. It gives the game flavor and lets the players think you prepared more than you did. Which leads to the most important point.

NEVER let on you dont know the answer. ALWAYS let the players think you have prepared for their move. It keeps them on edge if they don't know you are improving, and they don't know they have outsmarted you.

>>5281968
>I MUST TWITTER DURING THE GAME, AND TAKING FIVE MINUTES TO DECIDE ON MY COMBAT ACTION IS ALL PART OF BEING A BRILLIANT TACTICIAN.

>>5281921
reward players for making things for you game that make it go by smoother. Your wizard went and hand wrote out his spells on note cards for easy access in combat, or your warblade actually went and printed off his maneuvers to remind him of what ones he's used up for the encounter; drop in that item they've been asking for or hand out a little extra bonus XP because they went the extra mile.

Try to avoid players going off by themselves all the time (some situations in a game will call for it, but that should be cut to a minimum since when a player is alone, his party isn't playing; and they certainly didn't come to listen to his story only). If you are having problems with that, talk to your players and let them know what they are doing to the game when they do this; most will stop and work on including the group in their plans more often.

>NEVER let on you dont know the answer. ALWAYS let the players think you have prepared for their move. It keeps them on edge if they don't know you are improving, and they don't know they have outsmarted you.

PROTIP-All players know that DM's frequently pull shit out of their ass. You fool no one.

>>5282004

I usually just go with:

It been longer than 30 seconds... "Okay, so you stand around staring blankly past the enemy as if in a trance. Enemy character's turn now, :roll: and they hit you..."

Lol that will show those "brilliant tacticians"

>>5281995

>Be prepared to improvise. The players never do what you expect.

This. If for no other reason than to avoid sitting at the table for 3 hours waiting for your players to find what they need to in the abandoned mansion...(happened to me...)

>>5282004
>>greentexting in response to constructive criticism

>>5281968
Those were just suggestions to make a game go smoother, half of having a well run game is having players who care enough to have it run well. If they don't work for you then don't use them.

All in all, I'm more of a reactive DM and I stress that my story is told as a reaction to my player's actions. Sometimes I feel as if I don't control enough. Which brings me to another point; never, never, never railroad (unless your players are okay with that kind of thing; and warn them before hand if you're going to do that.) The people playing in your game are there to have fun and act out a character; blatantly not letting them do something for the purposes of your grand plot is not fun for most people. That's not to say to not give them consequences for their actions (if they kill a town guard, the rest of the town guard will want an explanation at the very least).

Be flexible, it's a story and nothing has to be set in stone, if something happens that makes the story more enjoyable for everyone but doesn't really follow with the rules, let it slide, there is no rules referee hiding around the corning with a bat ready to pounce if every little nuance isn't followed.

>>5282024

>talk to your players and let them know what they are doing to the game when they do this; most will stop and work on including the group in their plans more often.

Is this some kind of magical dream group or something? My players do not give a fuck about "the group", it is always BUT I WANNA DO THISSSSS I WANNA MEEE WANTS FUCK YOU PARTY

>>5282174
sounds to me like you need a new player or two or you need to tighten the reigns a little. As a DM you should be the dominating personality at the table since you act out everything the players come in contact with. Grow some balls and let your player know what is up and why they are disrupting your game. I've never had problems with players trying to take to much meeeeeee time once I've explained that I'm not running two games, one for them and one for them and the party.

Which brings me to another point. Sometimes your players will want some meeeee time, be sure to give it to them, and usually you want to do that all at once. This tends to happen as down time between a mission or time where characters are able to shop. The easiest way I've found to run this is to do a quick short and bounce to the next player at a good stopping time. Keeps the action going and the players involved.

One thing I do before a session starts is to have everyone roll off. The highest roll is the player who gets asked what he wants to do when in a situation outside of combat, then it goes around the table until everyone has stated their actions. Prevents everyone from shouting what they want to do at the same time.

Plan things out, but don't set anything in stone. If your players kill the BBEG in the third session, congratulate them. Adjust the story accordingly and work to make the next session a challenge. Learn from your previous games.

Talk to your players. Ask them WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE in some games to come. That fighter itching for a certain encounter? Talk to him and make one for the group. The artificer wants to start making an iron golem, start putting things in the game that will make it easier for him to achieve his goal.

>>5282228
I agree with you. I am the dominating personality during the game, but i think i do have to talk to them about it. What i mean about them going MEEE is that they rarely act as a group. I swear that if i didn't constantly threw hordes of blood-thirsty monsters at them they would end up killing each other, wich i find rather boring. Why bother taking the time to prepare a campaign if all they seem to want to do is have fun at the expense of the rest of the group?

>>5282292
Faggotry meter spiking, Captain.

>>5282344
Well what you have there is a special type of group, they are the kind who like to play evil characters. It's just a different type of game to run is all. The party working to destroy itself can be tons of fun; and can be easier to run imo since the group actually will end up making the majority of the story with their dickery to one another.

Do you talk individually with your players and work to find out their motives in secret? Taking a player aside and giving them/have them give you information away from the group can lead to many interesting scenarios.

Although if that isn't the kind of game you want to play, let your players know that.

I am running a game with a player playing a CE rogue. His character assassinated a long time friend of the groups and we spent a whole situation having the group hunt him down. It ended with him being Geased since the player still wanted to play his character and didn't want to have him run away or just be written off (the PCs were not going to be able to reliably kill him and I wasn't about to run two games). The character he murdered was a paladin and the Geas was set in place to help him atone for his amoral deeds by keeping him in with the main quest the PCs were working towards. He still tries to dick over his party, usually to hilarious results, but within the confines of the Geas he has on him.

>>5282348
What is so faggoty about that? Not the poster you're referring to btw. I have the same problem all the time in my sessions and I'm going to use that I think.

I plan in groups of three. The next encounter, the next 'day' and the next plot. I make sure to IMMEDIATELY have somethingto grab their attention with at the beginnning of the session. I have the overall direction of flow for the next 'day' be it a bunch of fights, or planning the building of a redoubt, or downtime developments. And the next arc of story , while not set in stone, will continue to develop as the party encounters henchmen, enemies and plot points.

Dynamic quality; always change to make things more AWESOME.

okay
>>5282411
>>5282332
>>5282315
>>5282228
>>5282115
>>5282024
Have all been me, and I hate to samefag my threads; so consider this a last bump from me and I'll hope some other fa/tg/uys will take up some slack and throw out some of their gems of wisdom like
>>5282452
>>5281995

>>5282504
uhh , thanks

MAKE IT FUN.
Bad player? Boot him, dont drag it out.
Bad game? Get a new game.
Bad GM. Let him fucking KNOW, you'll be doing him a favor, and he should man up if hes pissy.

bump for this thread as it's content is way better than most of what is being posted tonight; and I'd hate to see it drift off.

Also, a question, how bad does a player need to be until he is bad enough to vote out?

How do you deal with players who don't show up all the time?

>>5282679

Don't give them exp for the encounters they miss. If the problem persists, write them out of the story.

Unless, of course, there is a valid reason for them missing, in which case offer to write them out temporarily for the duration of said reason, and write them back in when they can play again.

>>5282618

Depends on the level of tolerance of the players/gm

>>5282618
If the majority of your gaming group is having a problem with this player it's time to talk with him.
>>5282679
Sometimes people can't reliably join in on a game. What I do if it's a PC that has been playing for awhile is I NPC them, reflecting the presented personality as best I can but not directly interacting in the story. Now if the NPC could help the group on a particular problem I give them the help if they ask for it or really need the help, but other than that they get written into the background more often than not.

Now if it's a player who has terrible attendance, but they enjoy playing and the group likes them to play; treat them as a guest PC in most cases, or let them take control of a current NPC. They aren't going to be able to contribute to the main plot or story like you would need them too, but that's no reason to not let them play.

Now if it's a player who is just blowing your group off and not showing up due to disinterest, it's time to let them know it's probably better if they just don't play until they can find time to come.

Wow, some really good advice in here guys. I don't come to /tg/ often, and 4chan as a general rule is not the place to go for help, but I'll be fucked if you guys don't rock. Thanks! I've been wanting to run a game for some of my friends and this thread has definitely helped me with the GM side of things. Games like D&D are sort of overwhelming for newbies like me.

>>5282618
When a player doesn't show up 50% or more of the time, he's outta there. Also, if they perform any unusual bodily functions during the game.

>>5282774
Had some players who can't just come to terms with "fade to black" eh?

If a player is about to do something awesome, let them do it, don't let the rules get in the way of having fun.

The point is to have fun, not to adhere to the letter of the rules. You don't get graded on how well you're following the rules. You get graded on how much fun people are having. Improvise. Pull cool stuff out of your ass. Your players will remember those moments long after they've forgotten the rules (and which ones were broken).

>>5282115
>>5282836
Rule Zero, learn it, love it, be it.

Yes, I just told you to become a rule of cool.

>>5282024

I do this and I desperately wish my DM would acknowledge my effort. I did this for both my sorceror and my swordsage. Notecards with images and everything.

I'm going to bring the fucking Bo9S to the table next week and just flip back and forth through the book for my maneuvers instead of notecards, maybe then he'll understand.

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>>5283272
I'd like to say that would show him, but it probably won't. You did good there son, you did good, i'd be proud to have you in my group.

one bump from OP before I head to bed, thanks to everyone who gave advice, almost all of it was spot on good stuff.

>>5282772
/tg/ isn't like most of this site.
If you ask questions with a modicum of etiquette and manners, you will get a serious/humorous answer, not always in that order.

>>5282772

We're /tg/, son, we get shit done.

Have plot or world "landmarks" instead of concrete paths for the party to follow. Don't plan in advance that Town A will be at X location - just make a Town A and keep it in reserve, then drop it wherever you need to. Same with NPCs, villains, environments... That way instead of running into problems because your PCs wandered off into the woods instead of going into the mountains, you can simply reshuffle your plot materials and make a good chunk of them still apply in that different area. Only set things in stone once the party has already experienced them, because a return to familiar things is a nice experience for the players and boosts world continuity.

Oh, and be willing to kill your players - but don't WANT to kill your players. There is a balance to be struck between risk and difficulty. Without risk, there's no real compelling threat for the PCs to face... yet at the same time, there's no value or fun in dying because of something completely retarded. Try to let PCs die in notable ways if you're going to kill them - they're the protagonists, they should get suitable protagonisty death scenes. Of course, if someone's being stupidly suicidal sometimes you should just pull the trigger on them to teach them not to be completely retarded.