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  • File :1243864250.jpg-(45 KB, 350x590, Techpriest.jpg)
    45 KB Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)09:50 No.4732383  
    You know what's wierd? At high levels, techpriests and psykers are the hypothetically best melee fighters.

    For instance, a techpriest with a starting SB of 40 (something perhaps difficult to obtain; only 1 in 100 strength rolls will give you this and it is impossible to obtain for standard voidborn PCs. As well as that, their strength characteristic increases are expensive, and it costs you 4750xp to max out; nearly 1/3 of your maximum xp. However you can take the Mechanis Secutor route and take the Machinator Array for 500xp which gives you a further 10 points of strength (and toughness too, fellowship and agility be damned). Your Techpriest now has a SB of 7; or when you use a power fist, the advance to use one costing a mere 200xp from the Secutor advances. On top of that, you can mount any one-handed melee weapon on a gun mechadendrite. So assuming you max out your WS at creation, costing you 2500 total for WS60, and follow the Magos career path, giving you access to Lightning Attack, and you take power armour, giving you a further +20 to your strength, and you also equip powerfists on each hand and your gun mechadendrite, and let's face it your agility will suck and your toughnes will be sky high too, so taking a reaction to dodge isn't worth your time... you will be able to attack 5 times a round at WS60, each time doing 2d10+18 pen 8 damage. However a guardsman's potential is somewhat less; while he has a maximum strength of 45 on creation, being of a hive world origin and superior career path and therefore only costing him 850 for SB6, he can only make a potential 4 attacks at WS60 doing 2d10+16 each time.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)09:51 No.4732386
    Psykers however attack in a different way. One must unfortunately forego the rather more directly powerful Moriat starting package and therefore the Moriat Reaper alternate career path in search of a much deeper goal. Taking the Living Nightmare starting package and being sure to take the correct divinations and sanctioning effects, one can easily obtain a willpower on creation of over 50. Spending a mere 1600xp brings this to a willpower of 70. Increasing strength is expensive, costing 4750 altogether, but WS can and should be ignored until rank 4, when one can take the Templar Calix alternate career path. WS can be maxed for 1600, and I certainly hope you maxed it on creation, giving you a hypothetical WS60, SB6 and WP of 70. However, damage is done in a rather different way to the techpriest. With the Force Weapon you recieve, I recommend a Force Axe, if not two of them, and Psy Rating 6, one can do 1d10+15 with a Force Axe; but on top of that, deal wicked d10s of damage through psyker energy through the force weapon.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)09:53 No.4732394

    Both of these options become entirely moot when something as big as a house tears through reality and starts eating souls.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)09:54 No.4732399
    Optimization and power gaming becomes completely useless when you actually need to use your brains to survive rather than your stats sheet.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)09:55 No.4732408

    This os exactly why Dark Heresy sucks.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)09:56 No.4732410
    I'm sure these *fucking horrible* builds could rip and tear anything like that
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)09:58 No.4732423
    >Hurr derp
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)09:59 No.4732431
    No, it won't. You're looking at DH the same way people look at D&D. This is wrong.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:05 No.4732466
    but think about it this way
    Psyker one bad roll and your dead...
    Tech-Priest your a freak of nature and you find that doing investigation can be really hard so you might not even find an enemy to smash.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:06 No.4732469
    Not at all. They're powerful, but there's still one problem. They're human. There's a ceiling on what a mortal man can do. No matter how much True Flesh he has, no matter how vast and powerful his command of the warp and blades are he's still one man in a galaxy filled with terrors. Not only that, but there are threats that can't be fought with conventional means. The gradual fragmentation of your mind, the creeping corruption of the warp, or enemies within the Imperium who can bring armies, superhuman warrior monks or lance strikes to bear.

    Don't get me wrong, if you're making a combat focused character then make sure you're up to the business of dealing death, but what you see above is excessive.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:10 No.4732501
    I've not read CA but everything statted in the core books (including a max-stats daemonhost and a charnel daemon) would be obliterated by these; plus the OP neglected to either mastercraft or sanctify any of the gear.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:14 No.4732522
    >people complaing that they're hypothetical
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:14 No.4732527
    Which is why it gets under my skin. The GM has to start pulling out Carnifexes, Greater Daemons and other plain ludicrous threats to threaten such characters in combat. It leads to escalation of the game to realms beyond what it was intended for because some guy analysed the mechanics and made something broken. When you can stare down an unbound daemonhost and not know that your destruction is all but assured then something has gone very, very wrong.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:20 No.4732560
    ...wait, on the subject of that psyker, if he took the Scholar career path, he could master TWO DISCIPLINES

    What the fuck. That means that if he invokes he can cast anything in them that has a threshold less than 12 without rolling any dice, and a threshhold of 17 if he corpus conversions too.

    Goddamnit /tg/.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:21 No.4732564
    things in the corebook are not that weak...i have CA and i run Ordo Xenos and i can tell you if i dropped a lictor on his head or a squad of Dire Avengers he'd be hurting...
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:21 No.4732565
    Also power well and discipline mastery for a threshold of like 20 without having to roll A SINGLE DICE


    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:23 No.4732570
         File :1243866192.jpg-(7 KB, 252x184, 1242076880821.jpg)
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    >things in the corebook
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:25 No.4732587
    Lictors aren't in the core rulebook and are pretty much autocannon fodder. A squad of Dire Avengers would probably kill one of these guys solo, but if there were 3-4 of them they'd probably have a good chance.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:25 No.4732588
    Psykers have to roll at least one die to manifest a power. It's in the errata.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:28 No.4732604
    i never said they were in the Core i said i have CA.,Creatures Anathema.
    i was just saying that the demons inside the corerule book are not that weak like someone said. sorry if im not making myself clear i havnt had my cup of coffee yet.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:30 No.4732621
    Aww. Isn't there a talent that lets you ignore the first 1 you roll so long as you roll half your psyrating of dice though? These characters are only any good at 10000-15000xp anyway so it'll be an option.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:32 No.4732646
    There is, it's in Disciples of the Dark Gods and I believe it's only available as an Elite Advance and thus for a load of XP, time, effort and at the GM's discretion.

    Those builds still terrify me. I'm very glad that I'll never, ever have to deal with them in an actual game.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:33 No.4732647
         File :1243866780.jpg-(9 KB, 256x256, hur.jpg)
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    >this thread
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:36 No.4732672
    Anyone read Dark Mechanicus? With the two Arch-magi duking it out? Yeah, I can totally see AdMech Priests being godly melee fighters. Even Alaric (Grey Knight Justicar) didn't think he had much chance against either of them up close.

    Also, Castigator and the Investigator Techpriest for the win. Fucking fantastic read.

    "Heretics Die. the Faithful Live on. You do not." *CRUNCH*
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:40 No.4732693
    Huh, I'm already having problems with giving my players hard time.. 'Cause Imperial-guardsman has a power-longsword and feral one has an eviscerator.
    Them guys be owning.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:41 No.4732698
    I only made them as a horrible hypothetical. Also errata: techpriest gets 5 attacks on account of dual wielding and servo arm.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:42 No.4732708
    I remember that. It's what made me terrified of tech-priests to deal with.

    What sort of missions are they embarking on? A power sword I can see as being disguiseable as a regular blade, but an eviscerator is a massive, glowing warning sign for any heretics in the area.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:43 No.4732712
    I have not. Do want, though.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:45 No.4732718
    Power longswords are pretty fucking huge, you'd have trouble looking inconspicuous with one.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:45 No.4732719
    A Unbound Demonhost will not fight in close combat , it will mindrape the techpriest into analfisting the Psyker
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:48 No.4732738
    Depends. A longsword is, I'm assuming, a standard sword. Unless he meant it's a GREATsword (a full 2 handed deal) in which case yeah, it's going to stick out like a sore thumb.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:48 No.4732739
    Power armour gives the wearer added speed, so the techpriest should be able to charge about 18m; as well as that I would expect the character to have good quality bionic locomotion so he might get there even faster.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:49 No.4732742

    dual powerfist analfisting , roll for anal circumference
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:49 No.4732746
    It can fly, it can turn invisible, it probably has the powers of GM fiat.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:50 No.4732754
    Naw, cheating to kill players isn't fair. Throwing horrible monsters at them is fine if they come up with what the OP suggests, but doing a "lol u ded" as you're suggesting isn't ever cool.
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:52 No.4732761
    they're currently traveling into a warzone, to find a certain female their inquisitor wants for reasons unknown.
    Besides, they are the guns of the group. They fuck shit up.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:53 No.4732770
    No, a power longsword (detailed in the IH, I can't find the page) is a 2-handed deal which does 1d10+6... which now that I look at it isn't really worth the extra 1000gelt for a heavier weapon that takes 2 hands and simply does one extra damage. You'd be better off with a hellpistol or something.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:54 No.4732779

    Thats not cheating, it can literaly fly and turn invisible. And sense you long before you arrive , read your mind ....

    That is not a DnD Monster, it is fucking scary and will rape your group if you are not ,realy good and lucky. And by good I do not mean minmaxing and combat strategy but rather beeing prepaired and use your head
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:55 No.4732787
    ITT: Why D&D and D&D players suck.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:56 No.4732788
    Then all concerns of subtlety are off. Enjoy your combat.

    My point is that the GM isn't constrained by the daemonhost creation rules. He can make it more or less powerful, invent whole new powers and so on. Which he will do if he wants to make sure that his players are actually terrified by the prospect of facing an *unbound daemonhost* in combat like any mortal servant of the Emperor would be as opposed to "don't worry, one round in melee and this'll be sorted, chaps."
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)10:59 No.4732826
         File :1243868372.jpg-(28 KB, 600x450, 1240788007355.jpg)
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    >DM fiat
    >not cheating
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:01 No.4732835
    hell guns are balls...its an intermediate weapon better then your standard lasgun/autogun nothing compared to your lovely bolter, honestly i would just stick with a 2 hand power sword plus its more badass then a hellgun
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:08 No.4732890
    1d10 + 6 + SB 5 + Crushing Blow 2 = on average, 18 points of damage, with PEN of 6.

    1d10 (Tearing) + 10 + SB 5 + Crushing Blow 2 = on average, 24,5 points of damage, with PEN of 5.

    They both have Swift Attack and if I remember correctly, other has a counter attack or some similar talent...
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:09 No.4732899
    tearing doesnt mean add both rolls together it just means you roll twice and pick the higher
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:10 No.4732905
    Hellpistol and power sword is what I meant. Power longswords aren't great, are impractical (ie they make you look like Cloud Strife), and are only a little better mechanically.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:11 No.4732915
    You are dumb. It does 1d10+10+SB damage.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:13 No.4732936
    dude my feral guardsman runs around dual wielding combat shotguns :( and my arbitrator has taken love of shotguns to a new level always carrying around two ironclaws because he doesnt want to be bother with reloading...my friends are obsessed with shotguns lol but i nerf them sooo hard its funny they barely ever get to run around shotguns blazing, im always given them their equipment or setting RoE for each mission.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:14 No.4732946
    DH for idiots.

    When the techpriest becomes a power-armoured buzzsaw on wheels with integrated lascannon, you need to punch up the odds...

    ...without resorting to demons and huge things...

    ...cultists, traitors. Lots of them. Heavy weapon teams. Multiple heavy weapon teams. Kill zones, traps. Collapse buildings on them. Sabotage lifts. Use PC tactics against the PC's.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:14 No.4732952
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:16 No.4732960
         File :1243869379.jpg-(17 KB, 231x700, longsword.jpg)
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    Oh you. Cloud Strife my ass, ever seen non-anime long or great swords?
    Pic related.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:18 No.4732983
    Always a good idea. A renegade secutor and his allies would be a powerful threat. Or a whole team of secutors if the PCs have dipped into the realm of Tech-Heresy.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:19 No.4732991
    No that isn't the longsword's definition in Dark Heresy. A power sword is the length of a normal longsword. A power longsword is is more like a power-doppelhander. Only retardedly big weapons (ie thunder hammers and eviscerators) demand 2 handed wielding in Dark Heresy, and the power longsword isn't an exception, it's just a slight misnomer.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:20 No.4732994
    check the core pg 129...
    >"Tearing weapons are vicious devices, often using multitudes of fast-moving jagged teeth to rip into flesh and bone. These weapons roll two dice for Damage and choose the highest."

    and the Errata 2.0 has on pg 9...

    >"The entry for Tearing on page 129 should read: 'Tearing weapons are vicious devices, often using multitudes of fast-moving jagged teeth or fragmented or explosive ammunition to rip into flesh and done. The weapons roll one extra die for damage, and the lowest result is discarded.'"
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:22 No.4733023

    Eviscerators are commonly wielded by Ministorum priests in the heat of battle. What sort of cult are they infiltrating, cult of the FUCKING EMPEROR?
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:22 No.4733025
    Eviscerator makes 1d10+10, Pen 5, TEARIN damage.
    Hope to clear things up.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:24 No.4733046
    >you also equip powerfists on each hand and your gun mechadendrite,

    Is that 3 powerfists?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:24 No.4733047
    Remember DH isn't D&D! If you're playing an high powered game, you don't need to follow the "D&D" concept of 1 attacker, 1 artillery and 3 minions.

    It's DARK HERESY! You don't let your men fight a demon and a wizard!
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:24 No.4733051
    Thing about max level characters is that they get retired. Really, Dark Heresy is not the kind of game that lends itself to this sort of thing.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:24 No.4733052
    you mean 2d10 lol i thought you were rolling twice for damage sorry just checked the IH damage 2d10 those eviscerators are dam powerful
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:25 No.4733064
    So, what you are saying is that the ONLY kind of missions Acolytes can do is infiltration? That's it? Nothing else?
    Woah, I think you're missing a whole little world of opportunities in DH.
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:26 No.4733075
    Read the Errata. It's 1d10+10.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:27 No.4733084
    Yep. Also, and not that I like exploiting RAW, but one could have powerfists as a concealed weapon bionic if they wished.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:27 No.4733091
    For added suspense in your DH game, use detachable gear for the Techpriest.

    This way he can use torture tools for investigation, concealed weapons for infiltration, and lascannons and powerfists for attacks.

    Raise the heat by ambushing the PC's when they're conducting torture, infiltration or investigations.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:28 No.4733097
    yeah my dudes just fought a rogue trader on his ship they fought over 100 scum/recidivist/rating characters with some house rules for sped up combat any wounds to the body or head on those bad guys is death/any wounds on the arms and legs the bad guy was crippled...it was pretty fun and really bloody like the dead were pulled up high and there were only 6 pc and a npc with them.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:28 No.4733098
    >At high levels, techpriests and psykers are the hypothetically best melee fighters.

    Because the other classes primarily use GUNS!

    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:28 No.4733102

    Obviously not, but I've read far too much about games on war worlds. No subtlety, combat only, final destination etc etc. Some missions make you dress in frills and speak with a funny accent. For others you strap on your carapace armour, adorn yourself in purity seals and heft the biggest gun you can manage. There just seems to be a worrying trend of people just going for the latter.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:29 No.4733109

    You know something? All I'm gonna do is give these guys powers of chaos and then throw them at my players.

    They're screaming for your blood in their subconsciouses right now.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:29 No.4733113
    ...But you can have most of them equipped at once. Maybe not a lascannon and 2 powerfists, but if you have bulging biceps you can firelascannons one-handed.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:29 No.4733117
    oh shit thats even better sorry i didnt know my guys are shooty types
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:30 No.4733127
    You know why? Influx of retard D&D kiddies. "LAWL I WANTZ TO BE TEH UBARLORD WAT U MEAN I CANT RUSH IN TEH COMABATZ?"
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:31 No.4733138
    I feel like my mathhammer was worthwhile now.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:34 No.4733167
    OP here; I'd like to add that I am in /no way/ condoning these characters under most circumstances. "Builds" have no place in Dark Heresy.
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:35 No.4733187
    Oh fuck you. You guys are BAAAAWINb because a guy uses a gear that makes shit die. Bolters do that. Grenade launchers do that. Flamers do that.
    Besides, who the fuck says he carries it with him all the time? Maybe he leaves some of his stuff back in their base or where ever.
    Stop being elitist-pricks.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:36 No.4733192
    Survival horror is in some ways a subcategory of the second gametype, but is also an entirely acceptable way to play Dark Heresy.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:38 No.4733208

    That's nice of you, but you've opened the forbidden tome and given your lecture. Hundreds of young, impressionable fools have heard your words and failed their willpower checks. The masses have been tainted, and the heresy that shall follow is of your doing.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:39 No.4733228
    You shut up. Dark Heresy is about HERESY, INVESTIGATION and TORTURE.


    If Dark Heresy was about SHIT FUCKING BLOWS UP MAN WHAT THE FUCK it was called Space Marine.
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:40 No.4733238
    Guys with weapons < Mutants with fear-rating.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:42 No.4733254
    That it is. Most serious combat encounters in Dark Heresy tend to be about horror and survival anyway. It's more fun to spring scenarios on groups who weren't expecting to face large amounts of death dealing monstrosities, though. Or go Tattered Fates style and have the group stripped of their gear, the psyker drugged so he can't use his powers and the tech-priest's systems tainted by rogue machine spirits. It's just the acolytes, some dirty rags and whatever sharp, pointed objects they can find in a maze filled with similarly desperate people, cyborg killers and other horrors.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:42 No.4733262
    For you are the Arch-Heretic Lord Demagogue OP, and all who hear your call shall be captivated by your promises of power.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:44 No.4733288
    Guys with 40 insanity points and MASSIVE GUTS > anything with a fear rating of 1 or 2
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:45 No.4733291
    Missed the point completely.
    So you're fine if a Guardsman who is a fucking Storm Trooper, uses a fucking musket as a weapon? No, seriously, fuck you. Troll. You fucking had me.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:47 No.4733317
    Playing a Storm Trooper is something completely different from a D&D faggot who wants an Acolyte with an Heavy Bolter and a Power Fist.
    >> I apologized on 4chan 06/01/09(Mon)11:48 No.4733323

    What about missions which are supposed to be nice easy cakewalks, only to go HORRIBLY WRONG, with ghosts, tau secretly running a hive, the Planetary Governor worships Slaanesh (the orgies and the fact that he's the size of Baron Harkonnan should have been a clue) a secret chaos lab once run by Fabius Bile, insurrection, mutants everywhere and it all ends in Exterminatus and escaping in a ship from the 3rd millenium - which is possibly HUGE tech-heresy.
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:49 No.4733334
    The thing you guys are forgetting, is that in scale of 40K, these guys are still nothing.
    They can tear through cultists.
    They can kill some deamons.
    In the end, there's still millions and billions of others who could do this shit better.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:52 No.4733368
    >ship from the 3rd millenium

    Does it have true AI? If so you best rig it to blow and pretend that you never found the thing.

    Very much this. There is a time for heavy bolters and power fists, but it shouldn't be your standard loadout. Even nobles and their bodyguards don't lug that sort of stuff about with them. Hell, professional killers and mercenaries don't either.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:52 No.4733371

    See, it's been four weekends since starting out, and I gave one of my boys a power fist on the third weekend and a heavy bolter this weekend. That was so I could show them just how little that really means when the Inquisitor they've been looking for came 'round looking like a twist with all of his retinue as daemonhosts. So they're currently running for their lives, and all is well.
    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:53 No.4733375
    So buying an Eviscerator = DnD kid? That's what bothers me.
    It's even fluffy, dangeous to the wielder and it doesn't magically render the user invincible against fire from a far. Hell, it doesn't actually quarantee that a lucky cultist won't kick your ass in melee.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:55 No.4733405
    There's been a miscommunication, I suspect. Having an Eviscerator is fine. Hell, it's potentially awesome. But if he was lugging it around all the time, regardless of his mission, would be stupid and foolish.

    Good times. Until somebody makes the above Secutor and charges into melee. Success doesn't matter, that shit just isn't on.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:57 No.4733412
    Heavy bolters are shit anyway. Have you looked at the range increment?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:57 No.4733423
    I'm not saying that an Eviserator is a bad idea.

    I'm saying that playing a Acolyte that's dualwielding Bolt Pistols and has carapace armour and an Eviserator, and an auspex and an powerfist is a bad idea.

    And that's exactly how you play D&D.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:58 No.4733432
    Go ahead and make your super characters. I'll GM for you.

    Your Inquisitor takes notice of your incredible combat abilities and assigns you to incredibly difficult missions as a result.
    Like, I don't know, planting a precision beacon inside a heretic stronghold on a Daemonworld so that a Grey Knight Strike Cruiser can make hit-and-run.
    Or going to a planet in the middle of tyranoformation in order to record the process of advanced infestation.

    You raise the level, your GM raises the level.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)11:58 No.4733436
    120m? Shoots without penalty at ranges up to 240m? Gets +10 to hit at distances of 60m or less?
    >> I apologized on 4chan 06/01/09(Mon)12:00 No.4733448
    >Does it have true AI? If so you best rig it to blow and pretend that you never found the thing.

    We thought for a session that this MIGHT be the case, you see, the ship didnt really start talking to us until we were in orbit and the planet we'd just come from had started being Exterminatused.

    Eventually however I got into the computer room, where it transpired that there was nothing artificial about the ships intelligence, as the computer turned out to be a Navigator Psyker mentally plugged into the core.

    So basically it's like a super servitor that governs an entire (tiny) ship.

    I don't need to tell you how releived this made me, being the parties Tech Priest and all.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:01 No.4733462
    Yeah it's a 20m range increment. Check out the back of the 2nd edition IH, the appendix, it's given as the updated figure.

    The range on one is less than pretty much any pistol, it eats 160 thrones a round, and isn't even great for damage. The thing is a piece of shit.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:02 No.4733465
    Congratulations, you most likely possess a holy relic. It might not measure up to (the safe) Dark Age of Technology standard, but getting to eyeball sanctified technology that old should be making your mechadendrites lock up and your bionics leak.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:04 No.4733485
    No, it's range increment is one hundred and twenty meters. The IH appendix is misprinted. You could interpret it as a change by the writers, but then you'd be a massive fucking idiot. Look at the table top game; heavy bolters fire further than bolt pistols. They did in Inquisitor. They do according to the core rulebook.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:04 No.4733489
    >mechadendrites lock up and your bionics leak
    Is this like an erection for techpriests?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:05 No.4733500
    As much as I'd say common sense denied it, the range increment given in the IH is the one that you're supposed to follow.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:07 No.4733511
    >Heavy bolters are shit.

    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:09 No.4733525
    Unless you're in a massive firepower and money campaign (WHICH YOU SHOULDN'T BE IF YOU ARE PLAYING DARK HERESY) you won't be able to fire the heavy bolter for more than a few rounds without having your house reposessed.
    >> I apologized on 4chan 06/01/09(Mon)12:15 No.4733570

    Well, truth be told, it probably isn't going to let that happen, as the inquisitor has flat out ordered us to take the thing to the nearest forge world and have it's memory scrubbed.

    It didn't like that.

    What I think it's going to do (because I suggested it to it, in the name of expediancy, and keeping myself alive.) was that it docks with the forge world (or a space station in the system) fakes a horrifically fatal radiation leak or critical core meltdown, has us run to the safety of the station, detatch itself and run off, possibly faking it's own thermonuclear demise as it goes.

    The tech priests are going to have to console themselves with a 31st millenium era meltagun in pristine condition, along with an Astartes Boltgun that a human can fire semi-auto without ripping off his arm.

    I figure that will keep them happy enough to fit me up with a secutor array and some mechadandrites. Maybe some sweet pistols to attatch to said 'drites.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:16 No.4733576
    Purge the unpurgable,
    Cleanse the uncleansable ...
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:19 No.4733598
    Have you learned nothing from this thread? Power fists go on mechadendrites!
    >> I apologized on 4chan 06/01/09(Mon)12:19 No.4733601

    Fatigue the Defatigueable
    See the Invisible
    Sink the Unsinkable
    Divide the Indivisible
    >> I apologized on 4chan 06/01/09(Mon)12:21 No.4733614

    On melee 'drites, not Gun 'drites, which can hold any kind of pistol if you have a Secutor array, not just a laspistol.

    Besides, I've seen what happens when idiots get into close combat with an Ork with a powerclaw, I'm not retarded enough to try that.

    Seriously, those fucking idiots. We've got boltguns and you want to charge the Orks?

    >> anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:21 No.4733622
    Actually a game that revolves around noblehouses can be quite fun.
    With money and contacts, of course your servants will be carrying the best quality weapons.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:25 No.4733650
    Row, row. Fight da Chaos.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:29 No.4733698
    I also add that there isn't any clarification on how many mechadendrites you can have; so you'd be fine with inferno pistols and power fists.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:34 No.4733747
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    Powergaming in Dark Heresy is like headbutting a rhinoceros.
    >> I apologized on 4chan 06/01/09(Mon)12:37 No.4733785

    I'm pretty sure that the limit is 8. At least, the pictures I've seen show there being 8 ports for dandrites.

    Besides, an Optical 'drite and Utility 'drite would come in hand too.
    I am basically the only guy in the party with non-combat skills of any kind. (I had to work at getting a 47 int and +20 tech use dammit!) so I don't really need to be too combat oriented.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:43 No.4733828

    As a techpriest you should tell the ship to go somewhere where the AdMech can safely fetch it without needing to scrub its memory, and give it the worship and maintenence it so richly deserves!!
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:44 No.4733838
    and winning
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:47 No.4733864
    True. You should be trying to persuade it to let you pick it up later, as this shit would be bananas and would probably net you so many PROMOTIONS that not even the Inquisition would be able to touch you.
    Remember the AdMech flatly refuses to let the Inquisition touch it's shit, and the Inquisition is constantly trying to get around them as politely as possible. If you can get this ship into the hands of the AdMech quietly, you win forever.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)12:48 No.4733869
    What I can't stand is when GM's say 'My characters have a Maimstabber +30 and a Blessed & Sanctified Asspuncher, so now they're fighting overclocked flesh-golem-brain-cyber-demons because everything else is too easy'.

    They have that stuff because YOU GAVE IT TO THEM.

    Don't say 'They saved up their thrones/gold/credits and bought it'. They still had to fucking FIND one. If your players have overpowered gear, it's because you're too crappy a GM to say no, or you're bribing them so they'll keep playing. The 'good stuff' in DH (and in any game, in my opinion) takes weeks to track down. Anything you can't find at the local Army Surplus store (anything rarer than Common), requires a bit of investigation and travel.

    I'm not saying you should be stingy and never let your players get ahold of good equipment, but they should earn it. Fight for it. Make a damn quest out of tracking down that Very Rare force sword or megabolter, it's supposed to take weeks or even months to find it, for crying out loud. And chances are, the person that owns it is unlikely to part with it because it's the ONLY ONE THEY HAVE EVER SEEN.

    What's that? The players killed the owner and took it? They've just committed that CRIME OF THE CENTURY on that planet. The locals will be talking about that for YEARS. Arbitrators will seek them out, hits will be placed. Afterall, that was the only Power Greatsword on the planet, the sign of office of the Vatayan High Planetary Governor.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)13:01 No.4733997
    Yes there is a limit, it's equal to your toughness bonus.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)13:18 No.4734167
    General DH discussion:

    In a strange twist of fate, I've ended up with 200,000 thrones. So far I've spent them on (all Best quality) a boltgun and 120 bolts with lots of modifications, an autogun with lots of modifications, a hellpistol & a stub revolver with 12 manstopper bullets and 12 dumdum bullets. I also got xeno mesh armour, a cameleoline cloak, infra-red goggles and a multikey, leaving me with only 184,454 thrones.
    Now, the person who gave me the money is probably going to come and repossess it and the items I've got pretty soon, so, while I still can, I'm going to leg it to a Mechanicus/Medicae facility and attempt to get some implants. Other than an auger array, what could be especially useful? I'm a Scum, btw, so no mechadendrites, unfortunately.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)13:22 No.4734190
    Tell us how you got this money. That you're a scum and some comeuppance is on the way intrigues me.

    Also, xeno mesh? Shit is heretical, man.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)13:32 No.4734290
    Me and another character have just joined the game. We arrived on the planet, not knowing yet that we were there because the Inquisitor wanted us to be.
    Me met this annoying noblewoman, who seems to be after the Inquisitor. She gave us 200,000 each, possibly to entice us to her side. Needless to say, we aren't on her side, so ran with the money and bought shit. We aren't on the Inquisitor's side either, though, but have just met the main group of acolytes. We're going to make a run for it, buy some implants, I personally need to find a tailor, too, then we'll consider meeting the acolytes.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)13:35 No.4734313
    Some noblewoman just gave you 200 large each? That's an astronomical fortune, and even the nobility wouldn't scoff at such vast sums of gelt. Either your GM has goofed or something's up.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)13:37 No.4734341
    >or something's up.
    Yep, I think it is. This woman has been dreadfully unclear about how she knows who we are and what her purposes are. Eventually, we covered her head in melta-gel and threatened to set it alight. We don't think she'll be bothering us again, but will probably cancel the money. We need to try to get it out in cash before anything else.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)13:44 No.4734421
    Well then. You're an outcast of society. You've been given truly staggering amounts of money. Get as much of it converted to other forms of wealth and squirrelled away. There's also the question of why you haven't descended into outright decadence, unless you're a strong willed sort.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)13:50 No.4734488
    Just because I follow the Scum path doesn't mean I'm an outcast of society. Back at home, I was the leader of a powerful gang. Of course, that means nothing here, but this is a big city in a warzone so people have other things to care about. Currently, I'm in gang clothes, which is why I need to get to a tailor pretty soon.

    Also, buying a ton of guns isn't decadent? I've bought plenty of obscura and stimm, too. And, hey, it's still morning. Who knows what I might get up to when night rolls round?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)13:54 No.4734512
    >doesn't mean I'm an outcast of society
    >I was the leader of a powerful gang

    You had no place within the Imperial Hierarchy, you're an outcast. That said, criminals in the Imperium can get stupidly rich if they play their cards right. It's one of the few ways the common man can hope to ever taste luxury in his lifetime.

    But good to hear that you've living it up. Just by wary of attracting the wrong kind of attention. Not the authorities, no. The approving sort which will try and take you into a back room and show you what decadence is all about.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)14:33 No.4734818
    OP gets in a firefight with a bunch of cultists that managed to loot an autocannon off a PDF base. He did not foresee the attack, so he's not wearing his power armour because it's only got enough juice for 5 hours (at best.)

    They get really lucky with full-auto mode. 3 shots hit. He is dead before he can cover the 300m range of the cannon to use his overpriced power fists, as he takes 3 hits for 3d10+5 damage, at penetration 4.

    A green cultist with a 1000 throne gelt heavy weapon, Heavy Weapon Training (SP), and a BS of 34 just took out your Magos with many thousands' gelt worth of gear and years of experience, because you rolled an 81 for awareness. How does this make you feel?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)14:35 No.4734843
    Seen as it's an entirely impractical character, pretty indifferent.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)14:53 No.4735018

    Oh, SHIT.

    >>4734512 Dude, your GM is going to pull this. What's nastier than having a noblewoman 400,000 to (How many are there in your group?) thrones poorer with all her money, extended family, their money, and whatever arbites, Judges, mercs, hitmen, criminal syndicates, and Ex-Imperial Guardsmen money can buy PLUS a very, very pissed off inquisitor with all his power, retinue, and contacts PLUS the holy Ordos on your asses?

    A Slaaneshi Cult that wants all of you for their own designs. Bad.

    Run. Just run. Get off-planet, and start hopping from place to place. Your safest locations now are probably on those 30-week warp jumps from sector-to-sector. Man, get the hell out of there. I fear for you.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)15:01 No.4735069
    What? Threatening a noble and running off with their money was a bad idea? Insulting an inquisitor was also a bad idea? Next thing you'll be saying that spitting in the face of a mob boss is a bad idea. Or that spray painting heresies and insults on a Sister of Battle transport was a bad idea. Oh. Was shooting a space marine chaplain in the back of the head with a stubber a bad idea? He didn't die if that helps.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)15:05 No.4735098

    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)15:15 No.4735197
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    Hooooookay. So you've robbed a noblewoman of a HUGE amount of cash. You then threatened to kill her. You insulted an Inquisitor. You have no legal standing within the imperium. You are on a foreign planet you've never seen before. You are wearing easily identifiable clothing. And you are going around waving large quantities of money in seedy shops.

    Does this sum up your current situation?

    Also are you carrying around a suitcase full of money?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)15:23 No.4735264

    GM´s choice ....

    some GM are way to nice for dark heresy
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)15:25 No.4735289
    You should have killed the noblewoman.

    Granted, there'll still be plenty of people on your ass anyways, but at least... oh, fuck, I don't have a rationale for this, other than, y'know, killing good, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)15:27 No.4735306
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)15:46 No.4735490
    Maybe he's in a perfect storm. He's pissed off SO many people that there's a bottleneck as to who gets to shoot at him first.
    Arbites: Want him dead because he's an offworld ganger.
    Inquisitor: Want him dead because he double crossed the inquisitor.
    Sisters of Battle: Want him dead because he's been buying heretical equipment on the planet.
    Noblewoman: Wants him dead for humiliating her. And stealing her money.
    Random people on the street: Just want the HUGE PILE OF MONEY he's rumored to have. They might shoot him just see if he has the money on him at the time.

    He should be easy to find, wearing off world gang colors. Just look for the guy wearing the bright red/yellow/blue/whatever jumpsuit.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)15:49 No.4735520
    My god.
    This could be the funniest thing ever.
    They all start killing each other over who gets to kill him, and he walks out unscathed.
    That is Epic Awesome Assholery.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)15:56 No.4735592
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    Hey, Scummmer, I found something that isn't in your price range.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:01 No.4735646
    How much is a small ship in Dark Heresy? Something a rogue trader would start off with?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:05 No.4735692
    a small ship a RT would start with is probably half a mile long or so. And it would be Expensive, with a capital E. And impossible to get.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:06 No.4735709

    The answer is HIJACK.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:07 No.4735723
    Soooo... 195,000 thrones?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:08 No.4735733
    In the upcoming Rogue Trader game you'll have a ship, yes. Wealth will also be abstracted because, as a Rogue Trader and his ship/fleet, you're dealing with unimaginable levels of money. Void ships are things which only the nobility can even think of buying, and even then it'll cost them dearly.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:11 No.4735768
    Scum should be hunted by everyone and shot to death

    That, or he should buy 2 powerfists and a mechadendrite with another power fist on it and some power armour
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:12 No.4735775
    a facepalm for you, kind sir.

    i don't know how does it work in D&D country, but back when i'm from spaceships in dh are pretty fucking rare and expensive. Your 200k would buy you shit. Get a grip on, a couple crates of weapons would be worth more. Also, considering you have the couple dozen mil you need, the problem is - where the fuck do you find a ship for sale?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:14 No.4735810
    200,000thrones person here.
    I haven't insulted the Inquisitor I'm supposed to be working for yet, as I haven't met him. When I do, I'll be all like "oh yeah I've been looking for you for ages man! yeah how's it going yes i'd love to work with you."
    >> northern /k/ommando 06/01/09(Mon)16:16 No.4735827
    >Just look for the guy wearing the bright yellow/blue jumpsuit.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:17 No.4735842
    Steal a ship (without leaving witnesses), sell it somewhere outside Imperial space, use money to buy a ship from wherever the fuck ships are sold at (a legitimate market, so you can still be a part of the Imperium).
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:17 No.4735845
    >200,000 thrones
    >something costing 30,000 thrones
    >not in pricerange.
    Wa- Ohh, I c wat u did thar.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:18 No.4735860
    Because everyone wants to work for an Inquisitor. Get off world, get away from the Inquisitor, get to some backwater and enjoy your easy retirement. Buy a villa or something, get facial surgery, buy a new identity. Everyone in the Imperium, especially scum, realise that working for the Inquisition eventually means death, and you're no exception to this.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:22 No.4735924
    Fuck. I'm not braining very good today.

    It's also a chance for spiritual redemption, assuming your character cares about that. When you die and find yourself stood before the Big E you can say "look at the tasks I carried out in your name." And he'll smile, give you a big thumbs up and you can go off to whatever paradise your local version of the Imperial Creed promised you.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:24 No.4735939
    >facial surgery

    Sure, that's going to help if the Inquisition come sniffing after you with a psyker.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:27 No.4735976
    You would also need a Charter, or you would probably end up being considered a pirate.

    If I remember rightly, they either no longer make Charters or they take years of strenuous effort to acquire and cost fucking billions.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:27 No.4735980
    I'm pretty sure step 1 is "Stop buying heretical equipment while wearing bright offworld gang colors."

    Nobody will remember some schmo off the street who comes in a few times and finally buys something. They will remember some guy wearing a bright red jumpsuit and bandana and dumps a huge pile of brand new coins and buys the most expensive items in the shop.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:31 No.4736028
    Somebody has a Lord of Change seriously wanting to impregnate him.

    Enjoy your tentacles.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:34 No.4736058
    Currently, I'm wearing black leather. I'm going to buy a suit in the local style. So far, I have only been to an illegal market where they don't care about who I am anyway. Once I've got new clothes and can pass off as a local, I'll get more stuff, assuming my money is still available.

    Anyway, the Arbites were after us for a reason unconnected to the money. I've met the main group of acolytes now who are also fighing the Judge and a couple of other arbiters. Hopefully, they can provide me with some protection, until I actually meet the inquisitor and get the rosette and shit myself.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:36 No.4736090
    It's like Smokin' Aces only in 40K.

    In b4 BLOODFORBLOODGOD! cultists show up with Eviscerators, Metal Armor, and a serious axe to grind.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:38 No.4736119
    >get the rosette and shit myself.

    The acolytes have rosettes? Your GM is fucking cracked.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:40 No.4736139
    Err, not rosette. The thing that acolytes have. I forget the name. It's in the core rulebook.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:45 No.4736216
    Acolytes don't get shit usually. If they're lucky they've got a nice letter which tells people who they work for and instructions not to use it unless absolutely necessary. There's the thing that Legate Investigators have (when their Inquisitor deems it necessary), but that's in the IH.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)16:47 No.4736247

    im playng a pyromancer not unlike this. hes very fun, i never actually hit anyone with my force weapon. i just burn them.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:01 No.4736419
    This is my next PC.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:14 No.4736576
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    >Two characters, one Scum and another.
    >Using money that isn't theirs to buy and do anything they want.
    >Preparing to get the fuck out before everyone comes after them.

    Fear and Loathing in the Calixis Sector.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:16 No.4736583

    We were somewhere around Fenksworld when the drugs began to take hold.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:19 No.4736629
    No use telling the poor bastard about the furies. He'll see them soon enough.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:22 No.4736653
    "God-Emperor, what are these fucking daemons?!"
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:23 No.4736662

    Bazooko's Circus is what the whole Imperial world would be doing Saturday nights if Horus had won the war. This was the Eye of Terror.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:30 No.4736721

    When I came to, the general underhive ambience of the suite was so rotten, so incredibly foul. How long had I been lying there? All these signs of violence. What had happened? There was evidence in this room of excessive consumption of almost every type of drug known to civilized man since M32. What kind of addict would need all these lho sticks and crushed belly-churn packs? Would the presence of cultists account for all these uneaten grox jerkies? These puddles of glazed machine oil on the bureau? Maybe so. But then why all this amasec? And these crude pornographic picts smeared with styger milk that had dried to a hard yellow crust? These were not the hoofprints of your average God Emperor-fearing junky. It was too savage. Too Khornate.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:31 No.4736732
    is this battletoads
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:32 No.4736739
    I don't even have to really edit this one.

    "There he goes. One of the God-Emperor's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:37 No.4736787
    If the pigs were gathering in Scintilla, I felt the radical culture should be represented as well. And there was a certain bent appeal in the notion of running a savage burn on one Sibellus hotel, and then just wheeling across the hive and checking into another. Me and a thousand ranking Redemptionists from all over the sector. Why not? Move confidently into their midst.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:52 No.4736961
    I've never understood exactly why the very thought of AI is so scary to Techpriests, aside from dogma. the difference between Machine Spirits and AI is kind of vauge in the cases where the Spirit isnt based on harvested/grown neural tissue.

    You'd think a standard Techpriest would hesitate to purge a piece of heretical archaeotech if, just before he turns on the compactor, it prints out "I'M SCARED" on a readout screen.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)17:58 No.4737010
    The terror of AI is that it mimics human intelligence without a soul to govern it. This lead to the rise of the Iron Men during the Dark Age of technology. The nature of a machine spirit is not true sentience, though the definition is vague and contested in fluff. Think of it as a representation of we would understand as programming. Simples machines can only perform very basic functions. Advanced machines are capable of far more complex tasks, exceeding human capability but falling short of true sentience.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:00 No.4737021
    Because human AI in 40k tend to result in really bad shit happening.

    Tau and Necrons don't suffer this effect, though.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:02 No.4737048
    Tau don't have true AI. They might have very advanced computers, but nothing with actual "I think, therefore I am" sentience. As for Necrons, most are mindless machines. The Lords, however, could be considered true AI, though formed in a strange way. They were once mortal, living creatures that had their flesh and souls stripped from them. Looking at the Necrons you can comprehend why Iron Men are one of the greatest tech-heresies known to mankind.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:06 No.4737082
    But as I understand it, the "soul" in 40K exists as little else than a tasty snack for Chaos, rather than the wonderful metaphysical organ of empathy and creativity usually meant by the term. No one in 40K seems to use theirs for such, anyway.

    On the other hand, I just realized how one can wax philosophic about the nature of souls and sentience, and ask questions about "can an AI have a soul?" in a universe where souls Dont actually exist in a literal sense, but merely serve as a metaphysical construct. While in 40K, this is...not the case. You can DAMN WELL SEE the AI doesnt have a soul because the psyker says it doesnt glow in the warp.

    Besides, I have the funny feeling that the whole Iron Men business was, like most fictional robot wars, started in the first place by the humans. The robots just over-reacted, epically.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:09 No.4737113
    The Necrons ARE really bad shit happening.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:10 No.4737120
    There's a big difference between what the case actually is and what the Imperium believes and promotes, bot in terms of souls and the Iron Men. The soul is the bit of you that makes you human and exists beyond death, either going off to join the Emperor if you're good or suffering some terrible fate if you've been a bit of a cunt. I'm not sure what the official line is on the true nature of souls, but I'm fairly sure 99.9% of human souls dissipate into the warp after death, being your psychic self. Daemons can see souls, and psykers shine brighter than blunts and all that.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:13 No.4737160
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    But why do all AI immediately decide there is a sharp discontinuity between them and conventionally "living" things? A more likely scenario might be them deciding that Humans/Tau are bastards who dont appreciate the universe or the biospheres they inhabit, and dont want them fucking up this lovely, precious reality full of so many fascinating creatures...
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:17 No.4737202
    It's a mystery and a part of the 40k setting. AI is bad and always, always results in badness. I don't think it's been explored further than that, and I suspect that if it was many an author would go down the path of "oh, AI isn't *that* bad." Which is exactly what they shouldn't do.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:18 No.4737214
    Why just human? Eldar and Orks and even Tau have souls as well. Dont all living things have some sort of warp presence? Wouldnt it be fairer to say that a soul is a property shared by ALL living things? (excepting tyranids, who are of extra-galactic origin, and might originate from a galaxy where life DIDNT develop souls as part of their biology. Some aliens have iron-based blood, others copper, some breath liquid helium, others flourine. Some have souls, some dont.)
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:21 No.4737238
    Diseases. Corruption. The enemy within. HACK THAT MOTHERFUCKER
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:21 No.4737251
    >The soul is the bit of you that makes you human and exists beyond death, either going off to join the Emperor if you're good or suffering some terrible fate if you've been a bit of a cunt

    No, you just vanish. Only very powerful psykers can maintain coherency of their souls in the Warp, and then it's usually just to be eaten by daemons.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:22 No.4737256
    I seem to remember that Machine spirits are all manufactured from Mars and required some kind of "sacrifice".
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:24 No.4737273
    As I said, from an objective viewpoint, souls are the psychic part of a living creature. Eldar, being ancient and more psykery than humans, maintain their self after death. Unfortunately Slaanesh fucking EATS THEM quick sharp, so they house their souls in soulstones. Tau, being very, very psychically weak, have very faint souls. When they croak they'd dissipate even quicker than a human soul.

    From the Imperial perspective, of course, aliens don't have souls. Or, if they do, they're a horrible bastardisation of the human soul and downright unholy.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:25 No.4737290
    Yes yes, that's what actually happens. But the Imperium doesn't know that, and it teaches what you're quoting.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:25 No.4737298
    But the imperium believes otherwise.

    Apparently, ALL eldar maintain awareness after entering the warp after death, and thats why they're so shitfuck scared of death. At least humans dissipate into oblivion, and dont have to deal with all that eternal soul-rape shit.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:30 No.4737336
    Threads like this nake me want to play Dark Heresy. What do I need to get started?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:32 No.4737361
    The point I'm getting at here is that 40K souls dont seem all they're cracked up to be. They're more like a little chunk of warp-energy that a living thing keeps within itself, allowing it to feel and manipulate the warp, even if only slightly, that stores/reflects their mind. Essentially, any conventional living thing is a walking "thin spot" between the materium and immaterium, explaining why Daemons need a living creature to cross over.

    Claiming that an AI is evil just because it doesnt have a soul seems like empty chauvinistic gloating. Its like hating someone because they don't have tonsils.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:35 No.4737385
    Yes. It is. But let me say *again*: what souls actually are is not what the Imperium believes they are. The objective reason why AI always turns out bad is unknown. The reason the Imperium believes that such is the case is because they have no soul to accompany their sentience.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:36 No.4737408
    The Core Rulebook, though I would also recommend grabbing the Inquisitor's Handbook for additional character generation options. It doubles the available origins, provides specific planet origins and introduces background packages to represent specific past events. Pay some XP and take a few statistical hits and get some benefits in return, most of them rare to your career.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:38 No.4737421
    guys, im sure that you know way to much more than my on this game, can someone explain me, the pros that a guardsmen have?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:42 No.4737472
    Guardsmen start off with very good armour for a rank 1 acolyte and access to both Basic Las and SP weapons. He doesn't have the finesse or raw killing power of the Assassin, but he's got far more staying power. He'll learn to handle every weapon under the sun and be able to survive long enough to bring them to bear. He's a soldier rather than an outright killer. He can also become a strong melee hitter and, later in the career, can branch out into being sneaky, a leader of men or just near-impossible to kill (for a human). He gets a spattering of war related lores and social talents, but he's very much a militant acolyte.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:44 No.4737484
    It's also worth pointing out that Blanks and Pariahs, i.e. those that have no 'souls' are almost universally disturbing, sociopathic and frequently insane. Clearly, there is something else going on there.
    >> The Laughing Man !AWEsomEEEE!!CwndNHTjLMy 06/01/09(Mon)18:44 No.4737493
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    >> northern /k/ommando 06/01/09(Mon)18:47 No.4737518
    hmm. as far as i can remeber "Machine spirits" are the spirits of animals that were sacrifice and bound to whatever machine they were to serve on. (think "good" defiler). and i also, the larger the machine the larger the sacrifice animal is.

    and i think i remember that machines of war uses the spirits of predatory animals.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:50 No.4737550
    This is a remnant of old fluff. There used to be talk of particularly potent cogitators (such as the Land Raider's systems) incorporating animal brains, but this is a distant and forgotten bit off fluff by and large.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:50 No.4737552
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:51 No.4737559
    That is actually pretty damn cool.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:53 No.4737575
    My theory:
    Thats because the rest of their biology assumes that they have one. I'd find it pretty damn hard to live without my kydney, because the rest of my body assumes that SOMETHING is going to remove ammonia from my blood.

    If a given creature has a squeedley-spoodge instead of a liver, its not going to mind that it doesnt have a liver.

    Here's a thought on Pariahs: Their soul is reversed. The Necrons modified their genes so that, instead of pulling the warp towards them, like normal living things, they push it away, and lock it off from reality. So, suddenly, everyone around them is being subjected to the loss of something they never knew they had, because they always had it: Warp Sensitivity.

    Blanks, on the other hand, arent soulless. they're psykers who only have one trick, and its always on: smoothing out the warp. The warp is still there around them, but no signals or ripples are getting out. They cant feel other people, and other people cant feel them, resulting in the "skeevy" feeling they exude.

    Its the difference between someone blindfolding you and someone ripping out your eyeballs temporarily.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:54 No.4737583
    Not much more to say. Guardsmen are not there to talk things out, nor are they there to think. They're along to hold the line and provide brute force solutions when needed. As with all characters there is room for flexibility within this definition, but that's what the career is all about.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)18:58 No.4737630
    Agreed. Servitors function on the same concept.

    Admittedly, you dont really need animal brains. i always figured that alot of 40K tech uses biocomputing via vat-grown or harvested nervous tissue. Its in Dark Heresy (look at the Cyber-Mastiff)
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)19:01 No.4737650
    That they do. This whole "animal sacrifice on Mars to create every machine spirit" stuff is a load of bunk, though.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)19:03 No.4737668
    These people are the Reson for well placed Vindicaire assassins.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/09(Mon)19:32 No.4737923
    can you stat one in DH?

    Also, isn't 'well-placed' kind of redundant

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