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  • File :1243367665.jpg-(103 KB, 731x1162, 1242863691240.jpg)
    103 KB Here we go again.... Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)15:54 No.4670303  
    Hey, all. It's me again. Well, after all my (failed) attempts to make sweeping changes to the established casting classes that would balance out 3.5, I've hit upon the idea to simply leave traditional spellcasting out entirely, in favor of the variant power classes (Truenamer, Warlock, Binder, Shadowcaster, Psion, Psiwarrior, Incarnate, Soulborn) The setting itself (custom-crafted for this paradigm shift) will be middle-eastern-and-east, but absolutely no japanese concepts. Western China is as far east as I'll go. I'm tired of Western-Europe-Final-Destination. Most of the campaign will center around NotEgypt and NotIndia anyway, so NotChina is a moot point.

    But I need to know, how much interest is there in this setting? I've had some good threads on it over the last few days, and I'd like to keep working on it.

    The most important things I need right now are ideas for playable races, monsters to fight, and cultural demographics. So, I'll post what I have so far of the various regions/nations, and we'll see how my fellow Eloquen/tg/entlemen like it.

    Feel free to comment and contribute as you see fit, even trolls are welcome, as usual.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)15:55 No.4670309
    Egypt analogue: One unified nation under an empire, but so spread out that combined military actions are nearly impossible so it operates more like a republic, with each area paying taxes/tribute to the overall empire, but the local nobles running day-to-day operations. Very religious people, with a single pantheistic faith shared across the land. Strong preference towards Incarnum and truename magics. Many large, metropolitan cities, but very few towns or villages between. Black sheep of this culture would be binders and Psionicists. Armor and clothing is all light, because of the oppressive temperature, and mobility and grace are very highly regarded.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)15:56 No.4670323
    India analogue: Once a very powerful and civilized nation, its empire fell apart long ago when its capital was sacked by barbarians and its major cities fell into ruins, reclaimed by jungle. While it still maintains a small handful of metropolitan culture and trade centers, these are essentially independent city states, leaving the many poor villages of the land to their own devices. After its primary religion collapsed, many disparate cults sprang up across this troubled land. Very diverse in spiritual and magical paths, favored classes include Shadowcaster, Warlock, Hexblade, Psiwarrior, Totemist, Binder, and Truenamer. What is or is not acceptable as a magical path or religious beleif varies widely from one village to the next.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)15:57 No.4670334
    Arabia analogue: Originally a string of oases and trading posts throughout the desert wastes, this land eventually grew into individual cities, each with its own dreams of Egyptian grandeur, but lacking any unifying force to make them more than a broad collective of nominally cooperative city-states. Incarnum and truenaming are established means of attaining power here, though they've mostly been accepted in imitation of the Egyptian analogue. Dragon Shaman missionaries from the north, and their converts, are also not unheard of. Religiously this area is very disparate, having once been a portion of the Indian analogue's empire, they have since adopted many different beliefs which often lead to conflict.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)15:57 No.4670339
    China analogue: A very wide spread people, they are made up of dozens of medium-sized nations held together in an economic federation, standardizing currency and regulating trade with outsiders, but internally very contentious and factionalized. Different guilds vie for control of lucrative tracts of land and ownership/control of different cities. A very religious, but not very devout people, they have many gods but little unifying faith or devout adherence to religious ideals. Magically, they prefer Psionics of all kinds and dragon Shamans, each Dragon representing a Head of one specific spirit family. Black sheep of this setting include: Warlocks, Shadowcasters, and Binders.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)15:58 No.4670346
    Eastern Russia analogue: Mountains and broad steppes and plains make up this land. Mostly empty due to tough soil and bitter winters, this land is the province of the Horse Lords. Several clans of Horse Lords roam this area in nomadic cycles, taking what they need or desire from all they encounter. Magic is greatly distrusted here, and any accusation of witchcraft tends to result in at least one lynching.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)15:59 No.4670352
    Polynesia Analogue: A Large string of heavily active volcanoes, this cluster of islands is frequently rocked by massive quakes. Known as 'The Demon's Heart' by those on the mainland, the locals are seen as savages without equal and infernalists of the worst sort. Whether as a result of persecution on the mainland, or simply because of convenience, this area boasts a large number of Shadowcasters, Binders, Warlocks, and Hexblades. The small villages of this region rarely act in concert, and no government exists outside of each village's elders. Religious beleifs vary widely in this region.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)16:00 No.4670362
    African Analogue: A fetid land of jungles, swamps, and barren plains, this region is home to many nomadic tribes with little in common save for a general distrust of outsiders. Once conquered and heavily abused by the Indian Analogue's empire, most tribes now make it a point to violently repel any outsider caught in their territory, leading to frequent battles both with each other, and with settlers from other nations attempting to exploit this resource rich land. Strong tribal ties lead to strict adherence to ancient tribal rites and beliefs, and make Totemists the only 'acceptable' source of supernatural power. Any and all others are considered blasphemers or demonologists, and lynched or burned in short order.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:02 No.4670397
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    I was interested before, and I'm interested now.
    I still promote this particular book and this campaign setting on the whole very heavily.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)16:04 No.4670413
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    --Here's the list of confirmed classes:
    Divine Mind
    Dragon Shaman

    --And here's the list of classes up for debate:

    So, is /tg/ interested enough to help out with workable ideas?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:14 No.4670502
    I still think Artificers can make a damned good addition based on how we retooled them.

    Also, Swashbucklers seem terribly appropriate to me for Polynesia or maybe Russia. Stealing things and pirate-like ways, and all.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:19 No.4670562
    I thought Paladin and Monk were on this too before. Did we reason to take them off or did I read weird?

    Also, no ToB at all?
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)16:20 No.4670575
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    Well, a swashbuckler can be considered ANY lightweight style-fighter. Pic related, Prince of Persia. No armor, fast, lightweight weapons, and relies on not getting hit more than slugging it out.

    Russia will be more horse-lord-nomads. Rangers and Barbarians, mostly. Cossacks, Huns, Mongols, etc...

    I'll try to find a copy of that book, thank you for bringing that up.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:23 No.4670611
    Ahh, that makes sense.
    Though, you mention the Prince of Persia, and this seems a very pertinent setting to place that particular character which lends me to the thinking that Swashbuckler is by no means a bad idea.
    Lightly armored combatants in the Middle East or Egypt whipping scimitars around seems fitting as all get out to me.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:29 No.4670682
    Yeah, someone else bought this book!
    Use it, OP, it's great
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)16:30 No.4670690
    Monk is in there, paladin is not. I might be able to include palladin, but I'd have to use the non-casting variant, and I'm not sure how to handle Turn Undead.

    Yes, But most of a Swashbuckler's abilities can be duplicated with a Fighter of equal level, except the excessive dodge bonus. I guess they fit well enough, though. Consider them included.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:32 No.4670704
    Not using Tome of Battle for not-India is a CRIME.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:33 No.4670715
    Ahh, right, I missed Monk.
    I was only curious as to Paladin because Hexblade and Ranger are there and they have a very similar casting relation.
    Ranger has...nature-y spiritual spells though, which makes more sense for this, but doesn't Hexblade have pretty noticeably Arcane spells? I've not seen their list, so I'm unsure, but I thought that was essentially the opposite of a Paladin's and if you made Hexblades work, you could make Paladins work as well.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:37 No.4670769
    Turn Undead is easy. There's a variant in Unearthed Arcana (and by extension the online d20 SRD) that swaps it and a few other features for Favoured Enemy.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:39 No.4670797
    They'd also lose Lay on Hands and Remove Disease.

    Who cares about Remove Disease, but Lay on Hands?
    Well, actually, it may better fit the campaign setting that way anyway, though.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)16:41 No.4670813
    I was planning on using the 'extra-feats-no-spells' variant of ranger from Complete Champion.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:41 No.4670816
    Even better.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:42 No.4670826
    What exactly are you gonna do with Hexblade's spell list?
    Or Ranger's?
    Or I s'pose Factotum since we're at it?
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)16:45 No.4670850
    Factotum, I was thinking they'd have the option of choosing minor abilities from the other power sets. Gain the Wild Talent feat instead of a spell, or its equivalent in Incarnum, invocations, etc.

    Hexblade I was planning on converting to Shadowcasting entirely.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:46 No.4670869
    Oooh, that sounds nice.
    Carry on then.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:47 No.4670877
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    > Turn Undead variant
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)16:52 No.4670929
    I hate you.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:01 No.4671015

    Your biggest problem is that Shadowcaster, Truenamer, Soulborn, Swashbuckler, and to a lesser extent, Dragon Shaman and Hexblade, have a terrible trouble to keep up with a standard Fighter.

    Shadowcaster needs another 30+ spells to choose from, an extra 1 or 2 spells per day, some rebalanced PRCs, and a retooling of the feats you can choose from.

    Swashbuckler needs a better progression for pretty much ALL of its skills(4 AC at level 20 isn't jack shit).

    Truenamer needs to be retooled completely, with his non-scaling DCs and such.

    Soulborn need more essentia to fuel their already pitiful meld list, better Smite Opposition progression(1+(1/4 HD)+Cha mod), and a much more useful Incarnum Defense(perhaps with actual AC bonuses and/or SR and/or DR).

    Dragon Shaman can just be replaced with Dragonfire Adept, and Hexblade can take the adjustments listed in the next post.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:01 No.4671022

    The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play.

    Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed.

    "If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes:

    * Good Fortitude save
    * Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day
    * Curse ability usable as a swift action
    * Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw
    * Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler
    * At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18.

    The key to the hexblade is his curse ability, but it's a little un-fun to have it so limited in use. The hexblade also has trouble casting spells and using his melee attacks, so shifting spells to swift actions fits in with the idea of an armored mage.

    -Mike Mearls, WotC forums"
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:05 No.4671074

    Not that I don't think some of these things need to be fixed, but the party really only needs to be as good as the encounters, not as good as they can be, right?
    3.5 tends to be 'Play a non-caster, suck ass' or 'Play a caster, rape face'. There's no middle ground.
    For all of these semi-casters with their weirdness, maybe they can actually achieve that middle without screwing the system.
    Certain things obviously do need help, like the amount of Hexblade curses, but you could easily make an 'Extra Curses' feat without retooling the whole class, right?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:17 No.4671209
    Bump for more /tg/ related and interesting than a number of things.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)17:19 No.4671237
    Well, I'm hoping that all the variant casters will add flavor to the setting, while simultaneously encouraging balanced parties.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:20 No.4671250
    They should depending on the party.
    With a group full of hyrbrids, every role is bound to be filled.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:21 No.4671260

    The problem isn't so much that the classes need to be perfectly unkillable(I hate that, I love high mortality rates, even as a player) so much that the Shadowcaster is reduced to assist others actions and smacking things with it's 1/2 BAB after the monster made saves against the two(rather bad) spells per day a Shadowcaster gets. Meanwhile, the Fighter is still powerattacking, and the Warlock is blasting things.

    You could put out 'patch' feats, but then you're stuck with the fact that you either take it, or you're going to fall behind the other classes in doing anything at all. At that point, you might as well just alter the class.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:24 No.4671293
    Yeah, that's a legitimate case...
    Maybe OP's got fixes in mind though.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:31 No.4671375
    I'd say move the BAB up to 15, but then nobody has a low BAB.
    Straight up double the number of spells?
    Add another ability mod to the spell saves?
    Give a shitton of bonus feats?
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)17:34 No.4671410
    I'm thinking Shadowcaster needs to be able to cast more often, obviously. But at-will like Warlocks seems a bit much. Maybe a point system like psionics? I'm not sure. Maybe just 'each mystery can be cast a number of times per day equal to the caster's level + Int modifier'
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:41 No.4671482
    A recharge meditation thing in shadows.
    Takes a round per level to work?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:41 No.4671493
    For my games, I capped cleric, druid and wizard at a few level 5 spells at 20 (effectively half their spellcasting, AND heavy trimming of spell lists), and wizard and cleric got BAB and hit die promotions. Now, wizard is a gandalfesque sage who can fight when needs be, occasionally uses troubleshooting magic or lays down the law with his evocations (no level caps on damage spells), cleric is the holy warrior (no more paladin), and the druid is a shapeshifter with some nature magic at his side.

    There is still a lot of magic in the game, but no class is breaking anything, and after turning down the monsters a bit and mixing in a few houserules, everyone can do their job just fine (even with no magic gear at all, which I liked to think as a holy grail of fixing 3.5).

    When spells are few and not a sure bet against a prepared opponent, they become a precious resource kept up a sleeve, not a mundane, ubiquitous thing people see flung about every day. Being rarely seen, magic can be ascribed mystic qualities (even if there are guilds that perform training and scientific study of it) which fits with the flavor of East.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:42 No.4671497
    Sorry, per level of Mystery.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)17:54 No.4671632
    To be fair, the equivalent of cantrips they get aren't terrible, especially the arrow of darkness one (2d4/x3 nonlethal damage, touch attack). Maybe increase the number of castings of each and/or bump the class feature that allows unlimited use to an earlier level?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:00 No.4671702
    So any time in a shadow recharges your 'cantrips', one round recharges your level ones, etc.
    One use per, or should it recharge all of the uses of a mystery?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:02 No.4671734
    One use at a time is probably best, but it's hard to say.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:02 No.4671736
    You have to be very, very careful with Truenamer, because if a player pimps his truename check (which may be harder given what restrictions you are putting on the game) he can be casting Gate for what is, essentially, free. Meanwhile, even if he puts a reasonable effort into powering up (say, by using everything in the Truenamer section of the book) he'll end up behind the curve by the later levels because 2xCR DC scaling is fucking ridiculous. Skills have incremental bonuses for "normal" increase, with a couple of bumps for the vanilla items, but you can stack several increases of +5 or more on a skill check besides just a regular magic item--and if you start doing that, you're fucked. Truenaming needs a serious overhaul--I wouldn't suggest using it "as-is" at all. Still, ymmv.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:02 No.4671738
    I think anything with a full psionic power progression like an ardent should be out.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:02 No.4671739
    The easiest way to homebrew a class is to look at its features. BREAK IT DOWN NOW.

    The Shadowcaster has four class features; Mysteries, Fundamentals, Bonus Feats, and Shadowlike Abilities.

    Mysteries have very few uses per day, and the ones you can choose from are, over all, not very powerful.

    Fundamentals are only tangentially useful past level 5, and overlap some class abilities(Arrow of Dusk deals nonlethal damage, Widened Eyes gives you low-light vision, when you get dark vision at level 3).

    Bonus Feat are few if you go for the higher level mysteries, as you should be clawing at every chance for extra power you come across due to the low power of your mysteries. Even if you get Maximized Metashadow, you're maximizing what, 4d6? Not to mention it's at a lower DC.

    The Shadowlike abilities are mostly fluff oriented(akin to a druid's Timeless Body), but the immunity to disease and extra darkvision is nice.

    My changes would include adding 3-5 more paths to each tier of mysteries, 1-2 extra mysteries per day(maybe add more bonus feats, and add a feat that gives you extra spells that you can take multiple times), another 10 fundamentals, and making the metashadow feats usable 2/day each, at least.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:09 No.4671810
    Shadowcaster fix:


    Note that Mouseferatu is the guy who wrote the class.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:32 No.4672018
    Bump for actually /tg/ related
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:37 No.4672059
    Not to sound like a colossal fool... but the shadowcaster sounds quite interesting and i havn't heard of it before. Might i know where it can be found?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:38 No.4672077
    Tome of Magic, along with the Binder and the Truenamer.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:42 No.4672111

    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)18:55 No.4672210
    If you're re-tooling and re-themeing paladins you could drop the "knight in shining armor" thing make them more of a hunter of supernatural foes.

    Keep turning and drop something else to pickup favoured enemies, limiting classes of favoured enemies to the undead, outsiders, abberations, fey, elementals, and constructs. No spells at all, no alignment restrictions, and smite and turn are limited to favoured enemies instead of the normal restrictions.

    Suitable for "not russia", with the distrust of the supernatural.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)19:00 No.4672255
    I propose additional abilities to add to the Truenamer.
    Specific runes/Words/etc. that can be scribed onto things in order to imbue them with supernatural power.
    Fold infusions into a subdiscipline of Naming, in other words.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)19:46 No.4672629
    That's actually a pretty cool idea, and would add a lot of oomph back into the Truenamer.

    Something like the Cold Iron Warrior, maybe?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)19:50 No.4672661
    I was actually thinking a long-dead civilisation being the beginning of Truenaman, and basing it on Semitic weirdness.
    Is this awesome y/n?

    So fold Ranger and Paladin together?
    It would make both stronger...
    >> Anon 05/26/09(Tue)20:06 No.4672797
    >>4671738 I think anything with a full psionic power progression like an ardent should be out.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)20:21 No.4672915
    That is a pretty cool idea, actually. Semitic is a culture that gets overlooked pretty easily for inspiration.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)20:25 No.4672954
    "We search for the ultimate name - The TETRAGRAMMATON."
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)22:03 No.4673715
    So would the angels and various other things actually intervene, or would it be incidental use of names?
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)22:18 No.4673834
    Not a bad idea. I was considering a variation of runescribing and/or the Words Of Creation/Dark Speech feats, but that might work as well.

    That's actually a good idea, but then I'll need to switch up Ranger so that they aren't too similar.

    Yes, they do. Hell, the legend of the golem starts with them, but got changed too much. Their original legend just had a Rabbi make a statue out of clay and write one word (the old word for truth) onto its forehead, and it sprung to life and did his bidding. Lots of semitic/arabian/african/middle-eastern stuff is great source material, but it never gets the attention it deserves.

    Yeah, I'm going to have to strongly disagree there.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)22:42 No.4674044
    So back to religions.
    Mainly polytheism, or otherwise?
    I think Notchina could do the World, the Worldsoul, and the Worldmind...
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)23:02 No.4674224
    Well, Notchina is mostly psionic, and heavily capitalist, so I'm thinking that their religious setup is akin to Taoism, but that it's a 'holidays and sundays' kinda thing where the priesthood isn't really all that influential, and while many families pay lip-service to the many spirits who make up the Worldmind, actual faith is a bit lacking.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)23:19 No.4674400
    Speaking of Notchina, I have a very important question regarding it: Great Wall or No Great Wall? The political, economic, and social implications of such a fortification are fairly substantial.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:23 No.4674429
    What would it hold out?
    Ice Demons?
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)23:33 No.4674533
    Mostly the Notrussian horse nomads, the Nothuns, notmongols, and notcossacks, as well as the ancient Notindian armies from before the Notindian empire collapsed.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:35 No.4674552
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    No yetis?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:38 No.4674569
    The wall's actually just an enormous road high above the ground that links together the many independent states economically and socially, and isn't as necessary for the purposes of defense?
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)23:41 No.4674589
    I like that.... I like that a LOT. Instead of being a Great Defensive Wall, It's a Great Interstate Trade Lane. It was made fifty feet tall to limit the activities of highway men and bandits. The fact that it keeps the Horse Lords out is just a bonus. Thanks! That's brilliant!
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:43 No.4674611
    I kinda like this. Maybe they built it originally for this, and it turned out to turn away Notmonghols too?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:43 No.4674617
    I do what I can, OP.
    Supporting this campaign setting from beginning to end, big guy.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:48 No.4674666
    Holy shit, someone else owns this.

    Second that it's good for this campaign setting.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:52 No.4674694
    The bandits would need spider climb, and that would make them even better at it.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)23:54 No.4674709
    Much obliged, my friend.

    Serious question again: How should I reflavor the Drommite? Beetle-based? Roach-Based? Camel-Spider-Based? Locust-Based? I'm having a hard time choosing.

    Also, I've decided to split the Naga into three subspecies. Desert, Swamp, and Forest.

    I've decided to skip the Rat People (been done before, and I don't want WoTC/GW knocking on my door) and the panda-people (REALLY don't want Disney knocking on my door), so now the list of races stands at:
    Ghul (Necropolitan Human)
    Ogre (Re-flavored half-giant)
    Austrolotch (Kroot-like bird people descended from Ostriches)
    Naga (and three subspecies thereof)

    What else can we include?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:56 No.4674727
    Dromites as it stands are members of different castes based on elementals.
    Yellow casts, red casts, etc. They have seperate Energy resistances and energy damage with their psionic beam based on this caste.

    Maybe...remove color, add bug?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:57 No.4674738
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:57 No.4674739
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/26/09(Tue)23:57 No.4674740
    except that without conventional magic spells, only warlocks can take that ability (making the ability itself much more disconcerting to watch, and making almost all supernatural effects and powers that much more amazing/intimidating, regardless of the effect's power level), so entire bands of brigands wouldn't have been able to do anything at all to the caravans.
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:58 No.4674753
    Sounds Jew-y.
    What is?
    >> Anonymous 05/26/09(Tue)23:59 No.4674754
    Or an equivalent.
    I like the image of monstrous bandits racing up and down the sides of a giant wall to assault the caravans at the top.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:00 No.4674774
    Flaming angels of doom.
    I was thinking cutting it back a bit to a few shots of fire abilities and glowingness.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:01 No.4674779
    Sudden disinterest.
    No offense.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:03 No.4674792
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    Fukken second.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:04 No.4674797
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    They'd work as 'djinn' in Notarabia.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:05 No.4674806
    Oh oh oh.
    I was thinking playable race. Makes more sense now.
    Carry on
    >> That Flaming Dead Guy !!MTGPgc3pXGA 05/27/09(Wed)00:05 No.4674810
    I fucking love Vestiges. Could someone upload this thing to /rs/? There's a link there but it's limit has been reached.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:07 No.4674822
    So was I.
    You can trade a great deal on reputation after you boil someones eyes out of their head by glaring at them.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:08 No.4674836
    Uploading Secrets as we speak.
    Will upload Villains shortly after.
    Will post links for both.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:10 No.4674856
    Okay, I think that's where we differ then.
    Fire magic based Djinn PC's in low-magic game setting?
    >> That Flaming Dead Guy !!MTGPgc3pXGA 05/27/09(Wed)00:11 No.4674868
    Why thank you, kind Anon.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)00:12 No.4674883
    Yeah, I'm not seeing it. I'm already reducing Drommites and Half-Giants so they don't get an ECL. I don't think half-angels will go over well.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:12 No.4674884
    Happy to promote my favorite book.
    Keep checking back here, 75% upload so far.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:12 No.4674890
    Go warlock to develop racial powers.
    Or Psion or something.
    The basic thing would just be useful for lighting fires.
    Other than that, some fire resistance, lack of need for water, and immunity to sun-blinding and you have...
    Another desert race.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:13 No.4674894
    Tortle Tortle Tortle Tortle I'm gonna say it until you like it.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:13 No.4674903
    Enjoy book one, anyone that gets to it!
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:16 No.4674933
    Lemme know if this link is good, fellow anons.
    Uploading Villains at 20% currently
    >> That Flaming Dead Guy !!MTGPgc3pXGA 05/27/09(Wed)00:17 No.4674936
    Delicious. Lemme know if you need anything done involving flammables or corpses.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:18 No.4674947
    Shit, Tortles populating Notpolynesia.
    Voodooin' it up, being all earthy and cool.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:19 No.4674958
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    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:20 No.4674975
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:20 No.4674976
    Dunewinders/Ashworms from Sandstorm?
    Except, XBAWKSHUEG
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:24 No.4675016
    Villains is up now too.
    Grab 'em both, ya sods.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)00:24 No.4675018
    What book are their rules in?

    Collossal template, monster of legend template, ashwyrm. Maybe as a single legendary beast randomly roaming the blasted sands.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:26 No.4675032
    ....Dragon Magazine 315.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:30 No.4675065
    Woah sweet Jesus, thanks anon
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:31 No.4675073
    Got your back, other anon.
    Njoi your new reading material.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:36 No.4675102
    Would a bump be in bad taste?
    >> That Flaming Dead Guy !!MTGPgc3pXGA 05/27/09(Wed)00:36 No.4675103
    You may well be my favorite person ever.

    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:37 No.4675110
    I aims to please, mate.
    -thumbs up-
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)00:37 No.4675111
    as long as they aren't too powerful, or too similar to a specific intellectual property belonging to Paladium involving mutants and ninjitsu.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:39 No.4675129
    I think they may actually be a little weak.
    And no, they're nothing like Ninja Turtles.>>4674792 is just a very realistic depiction of Ninja Turtles that happen to look like Tortles.
    Really, they're very voodoo and kinda primitive. Hunter/gatherers, very religious, perfect for island dwellers.
    They remind me of the Trolls from Warcraft 3, but they're Turtles, so they're cooler.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)00:48 No.4675167
    That sounds ok. I just want to make sure that there's no level adjustment or unusual powers.

    I also want there to be just as many, or more, humanoid races as there are anthropomorphic ones. So, anybody have any non-anthro racial suggestions?
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:49 No.4675176

    So you're dropping the bear people altogether? I think they'd still work for Notrussia if you were to drop the panda bit.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)00:53 No.4675191
    +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Dex, -2 Cha
    20ft Move Speed, reducable by armor unlike Dwarf.
    10ft Swim Speed
    Racial feat: Endurance
    +3 Natural Armor
    Favored Class: Cleric. (For this campaign, Monk. It's the second most common class of theirs.)
    No LA

    As far as non-anthro race, what do you think of Bhuka? From Sandstorm, they live on plains and steppes and the like. They seem to fit Notafrica, or possible Notindia pretty well.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)00:54 No.4675194
    They sound great, maybe as a monster race, but I can't think of a way to make them PCs without an ECL and I hate those. There's very little downside to the bear phenotype, they're fast, strong, tough, and modertely smart. There's no place to realistically put in a hindrance. And, like I said, I want to limit the anthros.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:01 No.4675224
    Neanderthals for Notrussia?
    From Frostburn. They're not very smart, but they're hairy and used to cold and definitely raiders and nomads.
    Being mounted though might seem a tad odd for them.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:08 No.4675273
    Buomman from Planar Handbook.

    +2 Wis, -2 Cha
    30 land speed
    +2 racial bonus on listen and perform (sing)
    Buammons take a vow agaisnt speaking, and instead use ssong as their primary means of communication with each other. To use magic they would take the silent spell or nonverbal component (aallowing them to sing their components instead of speakign them).
    Favored class monk.
    Essentially, they sing because their culture is a religious one that believe their songs must continue forever, or the world will end/some diety will awaken/die, some catastrophe is averted...
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)01:09 No.4675284
    Bhuka work. I'm already using Asherati, so it's not much of a stretch.

    OK, let's break down the races into their stereotypical equivalents::

    Humans = Adaptable and numerous baseline = Humans

    Naga = mysterious and reclusive mystics with multiple subspecies = Elves

    Drommite = short frail thieves = halflings

    Bhuka = Short frail supernaturalists = Gnomes

    Asherati = outcast wanderers and nomads = half-elves

    Ghuls = maligned and despised outsiders trying to make good = Kobolds

    Ogre = Re-flavored half-giant, known for physicallity = half-orc

    Austrolotch = nomadic bird people descended from Ostriches, rarely welcome anywhere = Half-elves

    and now the tortle: reclusive mystics = Elves.

    I just realized we have no dwarf equivalent. I'm no fanboy, but we're going to need a 'stingy, miserly, tough' race.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:11 No.4675297
    Shadar-Kai work, but will need ALOT of fine tuning
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:11 No.4675298

    >> need dorf

    bear people, spare the bear people!
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:15 No.4675332
    Use Shadowswyft from planar handbook instead.
    +2 dex, -2 con
    +2 initiative
    Darkvision 120, lowlight vision
    Light blindness
    40' move
    +4 move silently and hide in shadows racial bonus
    +1 LA
    Favored class rogue, obviously.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:16 No.4675342

    Alligator Snapping Turtle people. They all resemble hunchbacked old men. Frequently use canes because their shells are pretty encumbering. You do not want to piss one off though. Or get into a staring contest with one. They will kick your ass.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)01:16 No.4675348
    ok, ok, I'll reflavor the ogres into dwarf analogues, and the Bears can take on the position of half-orcs.

    But that leaves me with a 50/50 rate of humanoid to anthro. So, let's hear some more humanoid suggestions.

    not familiar with them. Where are they from?
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:16 No.4675353
    That is not worth +1 LA at all.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:21 No.4675391
    Fiend Folio.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:24 No.4675413
    Don't blame me, I just looked up the race because it was a variant humanoid.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)01:28 No.4675454
    what would their cultural position be, so to speak?
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:31 No.4675476
    I'm just throwing in comments.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:36 No.4675512
    Fuck Shadar-Kai. Act like they don't exist.

    Obscure non-anthro races that are cool that we haven't covered:
    Shifters (bordering the non-anthro thing, here)
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:41 No.4675546

    I'm assuming we're trying for no LA/ECL right?
    >> BABBY BRAIN 05/27/09(Wed)01:43 No.4675564
    I've never heard of this game before.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:44 No.4675574
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    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:49 No.4675608
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:54 No.4675634
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)01:58 No.4675652
    Yes, I'd like to avoid LA/ECL. I'd also like to avoid races whose best descriptions is "Imagine a human but with X (cosmetic feature) different". So no Rilkan, or Skarn, or Elan, or Xeph.

    You've never heard of Dungeons and Dragons? DnD? This is thread discussing a customized setting for said game.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:59 No.4675663
    The ranger has the same problem as the paladin, if you want to avoid traditional caster mechanics entirely. Though, if you dump rangers that leaves you with no "archer" class and no specialized tracker class.

    Are there any good scouting or archer base classes out there?
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)01:59 No.4675667
    So Synad would be okay?
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:01 No.4675673
    Oooh, Synad. Forgot about those. Could be real neat.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:06 No.4675706
    Variant Rules, the Ranger will have no spells.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:11 No.4675734
    The only reason a psion is "less powerful" than a wizard is that there are less psionic powers than spells.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:12 No.4675745
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:14 No.4675755
    The Scout class.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:17 No.4675779
    You just keep telling yourself that.

    Psions are less broken because they can't use their abilties to the full extent wizards can. Their powers are more balanced and their ability to use them is limited by their capacity to spend power points and expend psionic focuses.

    Psioncs, Tome of Battle, and Tome of Magic were forerunners to the 4e systems.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:19 No.4675795

    Let's go ahead and move away from the superiority of one system to another debate and move back into the discussing OP's campaign setting before this thread gets shitted up like the last couple times, okay?
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)02:29 No.4675865
    The Scout class, from Complete Adventurer. But as I said earlier, I'm keping Ranger, just using their 'no spells, extra fighter feats' variant from Complete Champion. And Fighters do well with Bows as well, you just have to specialize in that direction.

    Which book are Synad from?
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:33 No.4675900
    >Psions are less broken because they can't use their abilties to the full extent wizards can. Their powers are more balanced and their ability to use them is limited by their capacity to spend power points and expend psionic focuses.

    There was a time I used to buy this claptrap. That is before I actually played a psion and discovered the wonders of Overchannel (with Talented of course), Psionic Meditation, and all those lovely powers where the DC save goes up with the more points you can pump into them. The awesomeness of being able to use nothing but your highest costing powers until you go bone dry, the handy little psicrystal tricks you can do for virtual extra actions, and Schism abuse for real extra actions.

    You see, broken is a binary function: Just because your arm dosn't have a compound fracture, that dosn't mean it still isn't broken with a spiral fracture.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:36 No.4675934
    Complete Psionic - one of the only good things in the book. They're hairless humans, but it's their minds - all three of them - that mark them as different from humans. So they may not fit into the 'nonhumanlike' situation you are aiming towards.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)02:38 No.4675953

    No more of that, ok? That's not the point of this thread. Like >>4675795 said, this thread is about coming up with ideas for this setting. Currently, we're on the topic of playable races, though as a side-topic, I'd also like people's opinions on basic monsters. The middle-eastern equivalents to your generic goblins, orcs, trolls, etc.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)02:40 No.4675977
    I guess I could reflavor their appearance. Give me a bit to look them up.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:46 No.4676018
    You might want to look up Barlowe's Guide to Fantasy in the /rs/ for appearances and ideas.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:56 No.4676106
    Dude, if you want some creatures, a host can be found from Persian and Indian local legends.
    If in doubt, remember that every culture in the world has 3 things in common.
    A myth about "vampires".
    A myth about "dragons".
    A myth about a great flood that drowned the world.
    It's a start.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)02:58 No.4676117
    The Dybbuk is a middle eastern race that combines legends of trolls and vampires, along with a touch of ghoul.

    They are a tall, gangly people with long faces and angled features, and large teeth - often being buck-toothed. Their spindly arms have large flaps of skin, and their ankles are elongated, giving them a digitigrate stance, meaning they walk on their toes.

    They are omnivorous to an extent, but meat, preferably less than fresh but not entirely rotted, is the staple of their diet. their teeth are overgrown so they can gnaw on bones and they often crack them for the marror. Their ears are actually quite small, while their eyes are large and forward facing. Their clothing is usually simple in design - largely because of their 'wings' - but very colorful. They cannot fly, but can glide for short distances. They are mammals.

    +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Str (Quick, agile, and a measure of cunning and alertness, but not very powerfully built and low muscle mass)
    Move 30, Glide 40 (must drop 10' in height for every 40' of length)
    Low Light Vision
    +4 racial bonus on climb checks and jump checks
    Favored Class: Warlock

    They are fond of alchemical splash weapons and tanglefoot bags that they can drop from a height. Most of them prefer clogs of unusual design - very thick under the toes and open toed at that, but also having a long back that actually reaches up to the 'ankle (what was once the ball of the foot). They are very fond of folk music and dances, and on festivals the rooftops of cities with a large population of Dubbyks resound with the clatter of the clogs.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)03:01 No.4676136

    Nothing there of that name.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)03:01 No.4676139
    Thanks. I was already going to include some forms of undead, as Egypt, Africa, and India are ripe with such legends. But I don't need epic monsters, I need the 'common annoyance'. The goblins and kobolds of these mythologies.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)03:03 No.4676158

    Man, the every culture has a vampire myth thing is fucking retarded. They lump massive varieties of stupid shit in as vampires, including bugs that live in people's stomachs and dudes with one eye, one leg, and one arm. Basically any bogeyman type beasty gets lumped in with vampires by some people's reckoning.

    It only really makes sense to consider something a vampire if it is an undead of some kind or at least a transformed human, and in some way preys on people. The whole "well this culture has a myth about a bird that pecks people really hard, that's totally the same thing as a vampire!" is stupid as hell.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)03:06 No.4676182
    They aren't undead - they're corpse eating humanoids who bother humans form time to time.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)03:06 No.4676189

    It's in this set.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)03:08 No.4676208
    The vampire myth is used to explain sickness.

    So obviously you have a bunch of people with fever induced hallucinations talking about what is attacking them.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)03:09 No.4676218
    And your definition of life sucking creature seems to fall on the European side of the spectrum.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)03:10 No.4676228
    Warlock is not broken enough, add 30 more DR and Energy Resistance, and the power to turn into a big ass demon at level one.
    >> Anonymous 05/27/09(Wed)03:15 No.4676266
    >And your definition of life sucking creature seems to fall on the European side of the spectrum.

    Uh, no. You're saying that because every culture has myths about some kind of "monster that attacks people," the vampire myth is universal.

    If dumb fucks like you wrote the Monster Manual, goblins, orcs, trolls, ettins, mermaids, lycanthropes, and otyughs would be classified as vampires.
    >> Adeptus Munitorum Magus O'Grady 05/27/09(Wed)03:35 No.4676407
    weak troll is weak.

    And..... I think that's all we're going to get done tonight. Thanks, everyone, you've all been a huge help. I'll post again in a day or two when I've had a chance to compile what I've gotten here and see what comes out!

    Feel free to keep posting in this thread. I'll check it when I wake up in the morning (hahahaha, no it'll be noon before I wake up) and see if it's still around. Thanks again, all!

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