Oh boy. Flame shields up!

It's sort of rare. Keep on looking.

And while we're at it, I made a Physics/Biomed deck not too long ago.

Shit is so unexpectedly cash.

Shitty obscure game no one plays anymore. Go with the times and play Politics: The Rhetoric instead.

While we are at it: is there a way to Save the World via Particle Phisics? I personally like them very much. They have Ion Cannons, Nuclear Weapons and The LHC, but they are only good at destroying. Any ideas?

>>4587054
I'm at an incredible loss.

Save the World? Particle Physics?

>>4587054
I wouldn't know, I quit playing when they banned all the good cards for Lamarckism decks.

>>4587059

>Save the World

One of the goals, you know. Worse than The "Bright Future" but much better than "Humanity Survives".

>>4587068

Who needs them? I dislike Biology decks because they have too small impact on civilization rating.

>>4586992
Flame shields like, five Eras back. Use Forcefield/plasma for that stuff. And that's only mid-level regenerating reactive armour.

>>4587077
Yeah, it just pissed me off, man. Blatant money-grab to make anyone running Biology buy their new Mendelian Inheritance set. I mean, new cards are cool, but making me buy basically the same shit with different fluff to stay tourney-legal sucks ass.

>>4587087

My Gauss Cannons beat your forcefields every time and you know that. Also Flame Shields have style and the artwork is lovely too.

>>4587104

And they banned Lysenko too! The bastards!

>>4587120
Yeah, I think they had a vendetta against inheritability of acquired characteristics there. And now they're talking about bringing it back (nerfed, of course) when they finally get around to releasing the Gene Therapy set. There's always Genetic Engineering, of course, but you've got to do that before reproduction, which really limits the versatility of the build.

>>4587054

You can do it, but you have to actually play a dual-win scenario- PP can't do it all by itself. You either go with SCIENCE! for the second one (must have at least 5 resources in play that are overteched by at least 1, adds 5 scenario points (SP) to target scenario) or Brave New World (destroy 10 resources of the same type to search your Lab Deck for 5 resources of one type of the same tech level and bring them into play for no cost- new resources cannot share type with the destroyed ones) so you can pay all of Save The World's costs for the SP you can't get out of anything Particle Physics can generate for resources normally.

Each has their drawbacks. SCIENCE! can be hosed down if they have anything that'll up the costs for overteched resources, and Brave New World can be hard countered and leave you missing half a game's worth of resource-building for nothing. So research first to get all your resources ready to go and have something like Unified Theory in hand to protect your play. Even if it leaves you with excess resources, odds are BNW will win you the game before he can tap them on his turn.

(remember: excess resources go into the research pool and can be used by your opponent(s) if they have a matching resource generator on any turn they remain there after yours.)

>>4587156

It was bad mechanics on stuff with the genetics keyword. They'll have the rules cleaned up in the next edition, when they're adding more stuff with the Viral keyword for Biology and Nano decks to the main set.

At that point, they'll be putting new text versions out for the low-tech Biology stuff like Mendel/Lamarck/etc.

>>4587192
>new text versions

Which still means you've got to buy all your shit again, unless they're gonna let you use the old cards as legal proxies and publish an errata list or something?

>>4587192

Yeah, I remember it was cool and stuff until they introduced Prions for some reason (as if virii, retrovirii and bacteriophages was not enough) and stacked sideway hacks to keep them going. Playing Genetics became pain in the ass.

>>4587170

Sounds cool, but pushing Progress too much gives advantage to your opponents: they get a lot of Applications why you do research for your own resources.

I can't tell if this is a real thread or some kind of synchronized trolling.

9/10

Quantum mechanics Decks are notoriously difficult to play as each card has two states which you and your opponent can influence. I hate being a card away from winning to lose to my own setup. I find the quantum cards tend to produce negative results more then positive? Anybody else have the same experience? or is it just me?

>>4587305
I have a disturbing Quantum Mechanics/Viral Shutdown deck.

WHAT WILL IT BE? VIRUSES IN YOUR CREATURES OR VIRUSES IN YOUR RESOURCES.

OR VIRUSES IN EVERYTHING AT ONCE.

>>4587305
Quantum decks are all about unpredictability. You've gotta try to hide what you're up to until the last minute, then collapse a bunch of waveforms and pull off your win condition in one go. Helps if it looks like you're trying for something else, to throw your opponent off. Just got to hope they're not running any counters to probability effects.

>>4587305

I tend to run a Nano deck and most of the people I play with run play a mix of Bio/Genetics/Network decks with a couple nuts running Luddite decks and 1 Religious deck

noone runs Quantum decks BECASUE they tend to do more harm than good. Especially when your opponent is running luddites

>>4587209

They'll let you play the cards as-is, but you -must- have the official errata list or a current version of the card. So you won't need 10 new copies of stuff like Lecture at Floreal or Natural History Society for low-tech Biology decks- either a copy of the current edition or the errata list will do, but you MUST indicate it's erratad when used.

>>4587225

They had to put Prions in because there's next-to-nothing between Viral and Nano tech levels if you're playing Biology. If you just splash Biology, you don't even need to go past retrovirals/viral modification and the like, but they really, REALLY needed something smaller at that tech level or Biology decks bogged down at the resource cost multipliers.

>>4587246

That's why you don't play BNW till you're going for the next turn win. It's dangerous as heck, because if he doesn't counter, he can go for his own win condition by using BNW himself to sacrifice some excess resources for what he needs, or worse yet comes up with something that'll push the Progress level higher than yours, meaning you've got to sit there paying the costs every freaking turn until you trash his. Fortunately, Particle Physics gives you a LOT of "burn" for that, and cheaply too. Irradiate (anything "life sciences", Overloaded Experiment (Physics/Mechanical/Chemical) , or Meltdown (darn near anything, all at once) will cover just about anything and again, you're just sacrificing resources ala BNW to do so- and since you've got a fully paid scenario in play from the previous turn, all you have to do to finish the game is drop him to equal or lower Progress.

I've got one of the first "Moore's law" cards to be printed. You can't have a technology deck without one.

Been on suptg.
It's not funny, guys! I want it to exist!
OP

>>4587334
Good to know, man. With that being the case, I might pick the game up again for a bit when the new edition hits, see how it plays.

>>4587328

Well, Luddites are easyly dispatched by The Grey Goo, I always save it for that occasions. Also Religion is ok to break an opponent but making it your central theme is ridiculous.

>>4587328

Luddites (or Religous/Philsophy) decks are holy hell (pun intended) on cards with the Quantum keywords. The trick is using them to give your opponent no-win situations. Play them on other cards that have negative effects on your opponent either way- that Quantum/Viral is a really nice way of doing it, since a lot of Viral decks produce extra resources regardless of what you destroy in the process, as long as something gets taken out. Piss-poor in Physics decks on YOUR cards, despite what you'd think. Physics is better off using them in mirror-matches where they can pay to play them on your opponent, then deliberately collapse them at the worst possible phase- or make your opponent do so.

Win-win there. If they express one way, you've probably sabotaged whatever you played it on. If it expresses the other way, he'll probably end up with excess resources and you'll be able to tap those on your next turn and get a jump-start on your own Progress.

(Most Physics players seem to hate having to deal with dice. Thanks, Einstein.)

>>4587077
Have you tried getting the David Attenborough card? They are hard to come by nowadays because they are so sought after but basically it can easily double civilization impact of biology. Though he is limited to only natural biology.

A friend of mine keeps insisting his Genetic Engineering deck is the total best - something about biology over technology, or something like that, I tune him out sometimes when he rambles...

...but is there really a "Frankenstein Combo" card-set? He claims he's hunting for the set, saying the "Create Life" finisher they can pull off when all the cards are in your hand at once is unbeatable.

>>4587444

I have a hard time with luddites and my pure nano deck at times. Tough to be able to infest those buggers. I have to get "World Wide Saturation". Tough if you dont have "Goverment Support" out and hope I can get the resources into it before he shuts it down, or go for the slower "Infest the Stream"

after that just start laying down "Alter in Input" and "Alter the Output" cards down and use his own counters to burn his deck down.

>>4587450

Oh, no thanks. It only plays well together with Brain Washing and your opponent may anytime toast you with an MTV (which is almost everywhere these days).

>>4587450
Attenborough would be downright overpowered late-game when you start getting into stuff like Transhumanism and get your synergies going with Nanotechnology. If his doubling effect worked when that stuff started pushing your civilisation impact through the roof, it'd be downright unfair. So the natural biology restriction makes a lot of sense.

>>4587376

You've just got to get to a point where Goo doesn't hose you the same way.

If you can't pay to contain it because the Luddite manages to render most of your resources overteched and then plays something to hose them (Progress, Enemy of the People is the worst of those), it proceeds to eat both of you alive. And since you'll be the one having to deal with it last, he'll get a turn on you and Luddites get going faster from zero since they have a lower Progress curve than damn near anything from start to finish, and GAIN Progress each time you lose 2 steps.

Goo is good, but it's slow and steady good. Nano-engineered Virus FTW, as nearly everything a Luddite plays for resources is vulnerable to it and it's cheaper too- all he can play is generic-cost stuff like Unexplained Mutation to counter, and that'll buy you plenty of time for Goo.

>>4587457
That is such a hard combo to pull. You have to build your entire deck around it and if your opponent manages to keep one or two religious cards. The best being "Fundamentalist Christians" and "Extremist" then your entire setup is wrecked and there's almost nothing you can do to salvage the game.

>>4587521

Just put The Grey Goo in one of your labs. Once the fuckers hit you it goes out of control and eats all the resources. BAD END. If your opponent is not a complete moron he would think twice before using Luddites. Or you can use Meltdowns for a similar but smaller effect.

I heard new Pseudo-Science and Misconception cards are coming out soon. Are they any good?

>>4587531

> Luddites get going faster from zero since they have a lower Progress curve

We even have a homebrew rule agains Pithfork Crowd spamming early in the game. No one plays monsters anyways.

>>4587540

Dude, don't use the slang term. It's "Fundamental Religious", not "Fundamental Christians". I just call em "Book Burners" though. :)

"Frankenstein" is a mono-Biology decktype that deliberately overtechs to play cards it really, really shouldn't. If your opponent doesn't have any counters, you'll run him over so quick that it's frequently done in 6-7 turns of research, but the engine is tremendously fragile getting there.

It's dangerous against other Bio decks because it feeds off of all Biology resources on the field and can outright ignore a lot of it's counters. Stuff like Abiogenesis can pull resources destroyed by Biology right back out with an extra Resource counter on them if an opponent destroyed it last turn, which means your "slowdown" just changed it from overteched to proper tech level.

There's actually a variant on it that's Mechanical/Biology called "Cyborg", and it's a helluva lot more stable, though about 2-3 turns slower.

>>4587622

As if we didn't have enough progress stoppers already. I prefer Authority and Dogmatism - nothing can beat them and they are pretty common.

>>4587576

Like I siad...the luddite players are nuts. I did try the grey goo trick earlier, but they would come on regardless of the losses. It eventually ended up costing me more in the long run that it did him.

After tripping one of the goos or a meltdown he would imidetaley play "Distrust the Unknown" "Media Blitz" and quickly followed up with "Radicalism" to mulitply the affects of Distrust and shut my resources down. And as we all know, Nano decks are a bit to reliant on resources till we get to the 3rd threshhold and we can make our own at little output.

Why did they have to ban every card in my Homeopathy deck?
Some of us like being able to skip the peer review phase.

>>4587457
Biology works simply because it can take down opposing Scientists much better than any other deck. I run Bioterrorism/Pandemic/Enhanced Vector/Gene Transfer with all bacterial cards (save rats and flies to serve as vectors of course), so I face no Gene Transfer restrictions. One unlucky turn and half of the oppenent's scientists are gone, especially if they have subpar Life Standard ratings (which players like to ignore until the 1500s so they can get a decent Research base. )

Biologists can also use Gray Goo at a greatly reduced cost, so if a Physics deck is getting rowdy I throw it that way and hope for the best, Physics is very hard to stop near endgame.

>>4587678
Homeopathy decks were overpowered and you know it. No peer reviews. Placebo effects and constant civilization impact. Not to mention how little you had to pay to play another card.

>>4587664
>>4587540

"Frankesteins" are good only if you play them FAST. Once the Immune System comes into play you're screwed... However, it may be a good trick move to let your opponent think you go for a frankenstein and them BAM! you finish him off with Tesla.

>>4587622

I've seen the previews on those. They're trying to give Philo decks a little more oomph, but I think being able to change opponent keywords that cheaply is a bit broken, since that can leave you with resources you can't use early on unless you pay the extra cost during research (or have an Application that can convert them to the proper keyword).

Not gonna rant though till I see the full set. Long as there's balancing cards in the Illuminated Age set that's coming out (and yes, that's got the new-text low-tech Bio cards to fix things for the Genetics keyword- they're including a random one as a "freebie" extra card in each booster- drink coasters with every box FTW.)

>>4587282
>>4587282

>>4587709

Prepare the Bunkers early. Iron Curtain may greatly help if your economy is ok.

So can someone please explain to me how the Technological Singularity deck is supposed to work? I keep hearing about it, but I've yet to see one actually put into play.

>>4587725
Fucker pulled this on me. Should have seen the shit eating grin on his. Fuck him and his "Scientific Confirmation" card. That thing needs to be way more limited.

>>4587780

If you ask me it's just boring and good only for SCIENCE! You push Progress level beyond sertain limit and then you get free Progress... no challenge in that.

>>4587675

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I suggest going with N-E-Virus instead. It's as cheap to play as most of the counters to Goo'ing the board are for a Luddite, and will soften things up enough that you can soft lock him with Goo while keeping it "fed" with your excess stuff. Otherwise, he ends up with so many freaking tokens to sacrifice and pass Goo back your way that you'll run out of containment and get weenie-rushed by the Luddite player.

>>4587814
Well the whole point of that is to put Transhumanism into play and then it's pretty much Game Over.

>>4587725

Plus the hidden-card mechanics were causing a fuckton of cheating at tournaments- people were having to call a judge every frickin' turn to verify legal moves.

>>4587879

Might be ok if you go for Bright Future or the Ubermensch but will lose you Humanity Survives. It combines simplicity needed by a beginner with fucked up endings.

>>4587780
This deck along with almost all of Robotics has gone to shit ever since they released the Skynet promo card along with the new Terminator series. Seriously, who the fuck thought of that? At least it'll be tourney-banned in a month.

>>4587054
Only if you're running a Satellite Network and Law Enforcement A.I. as well, but that falls into the 'hold the world hostage' category. The best way to save the world is a dual-research tree deck split between Nanotech and Quantum Mechanics. QM can, eventually, give you some very nice Clean ENergy cards, and Nanotech can eventually remove all your pollution counters and make Manufacturing dirt cheap. Takes forever to get going, though, and it's very weak against Social decks, especially when they hit you with Overpopulation and Unemployment Spikes.

I always go with Organic Technology and Transhumanism, personally. It's a bit messy at first, but it quickly builds into a stable power base. Phase out your industrial automation for neo-industrial factories to avoid unemployment while simultaneously elevating all your citizens to Ideal Physical Form with Genetic Engineering and Organic Technology, but simultaneously invest in automation for your computer networks and defense systems, culminating in a defensive satellite network to protect you. Ignore offensive military actions and just focus on economic victory at that point. It's hard to overcome the Cultural Momentum penalties when you first start, but it's a solid deck design.

Basically, it's Mage: The Ascension's Sons of Ether put into the nWoD, while avoiding the humungous pile of shit that's Mage: The Atlantising.

>>4587736

"Cyborg" does just that. Thanks to SCIENCE!, it can put together some truly crazy tricks in endgame, and Tesla is a bedrock card for Mechanics decks that aren't afraid to overtech a little to get the win.

Yes, it can SCIENCE! targeting it's mechanical resoruces, Brave New World it's Biology resources for overteched Mechanicals, Abiogenesis the fuckers to recurse the damn things without overteching them, and jump three-four progress stages in one turn. Tesla can (once per game) return any card that effects a Mechanical card under your control, so guess what he gets back? SCIENCE! Cyborg really is a machine once it gets going.

>>4587879
Nearly impossible to pull off until very late game due to all the Paradigm Shifts being tossed around, though.

Gene Transfer guy here, by the way, did anyone else find that, Slime Mold and SCIENCE! cards (discard three Research and you get to ignore requirements for playing any one defensive card) incredibly useful? I tend to answer Transhumanists by going ahead and making slime molds sapient, and the slow development of AI ensues I get to use my SCIENCE! despite the 1 limit on tournaments. Then Recombinant DNA and Plasmid Harvest ensures I never die and get free Energy every turn without even bothering with a Dyson Sphere until the Novae and other heavy shit start being thrown around

I hope it doesn't get banned though, that'll really mess me up.

>>4587978
So it's basically trying to shove a gigantic yellow turd into a delicious pecan pie? Gotcha.

>>4587953

that and Luddites beat the shit out of it, especially with Charismatic Leader/Chronoshift combo. Some even managed to turn Singularity tech superiority against itself via Time Loop.

>>4587953

Read the tournament rules. Promo cards are auto-banned from all sanctioned play. If someone's playing those movie promos in your local game shop, you have a shitty judge.

It's testing for some new mechanics, though. They're encouraging people to play with them in non-sanctioned play and send feedback, because they really would like to see more folks using the Singularity scenario, and it's a pain in the ass to resolve despite the Progress reward for doing so.

>>4588022
>Some even managed to turn Singularity tech superiority against itself via Time Loop.
That's why I always stock my deck with Many Worlds Interpretation and Bootstrap Paradox. Time Loop can't stop a process that always initiates itself.

>>4588010

> making slime molds sapient

good old Food Chain and Natural Predators take care of your molds quick. Better start with something that has a Cerebral Cortex so you don't have to evolve it.

>>4588107
Luddite or no, all decks involving Time Loop will include Proton Decay. Combine that with the usual Misconception and you've got yourself a nasty mess.

>>4587956

Urk. How are you protecting your QM's from a bad collapse? I've seen people try that and opponents just chuck enough resources at em to force an immediate collapse, which can mean you've just handed whatever the QM was on over to the opponent, or blown it to heck and possibly taken other cards with it. Are you waiting to have enough resources to collapse a QM when played and enough resources to give you a stable result on a 1-5? (obviously, a 6 always gets you the one you didn't state before rolling).

I can see why you're going for Economic Victories for your Progress, though. With a tri-based resources deck like yours, you can feed it with enough generic research to make it work. What else are you putting in for the 20-card minimum on your Scenario deck?

>>4588022

bloody hell...Luddites with Charasmatic Leader and ANY of thier tech shutdown cards are frelling scarry. I know the luddites HAVE to have something going for them. but come on, have you ever seen a luddite deck with 4 CHarasmatic leaders w/ Goverment Support AND Media Blitz.

game over

>>4588011
Basically, it's hammering a delicious carrot into a gigantic shithole, but your perspective deserves to be studied in the laboratory. Would you come over here, please? It'll only hurt for a second... at first.

>>4588126
Molds get both Colonial and Protozoan special rules and you can splice them with D. radiodurans for little cost and very sweet nuke and heat shock immunities. They aren't dying anytime soon. I'm using SCIENCE! to bypass the usual needs for sapience, so I use no nervous system (though I often end up having a few Selective Breeding cards left over from earlier stages and Protozoan rule allows you to have strains, so it's not a bad idea. )

>>4588126
Agreed. Best way to shut down most Transuhamism and Singularity decks is to hit them with a Hostile A.I. card and follow it up with an Autonomous Hacker Network on the same turn they play Mind Machine Interface or Direct Neural Interface. Cripples their population and sets their research track back to zero. That's why I always run Biological Transhumanism.

Has anyone had any luck with a Natural Energy deck? Seems like the social penalties and expenses just make it too difficult to get started.

>>4588216
>delicious carrot

What, you consider "HURR DURR, WE'RE LIKE REGULAR SCIENCE BUT WE CAN'T DO MATH RIGHT" a good thing?

I've been working on bringing back an old Steampunk Tech deck idea. The problem is that you basically have to reinvent everything, but there's a lot more room for customization and style. I admit that it's not very practical, but it's a nice nod to the past generation. At least until I get my Evil Plan: Clockwork Monstrosity into play. Then you're all doomed. DOOMED!! MUA HA HA HA HA!!

>>4588186

Im guessing he is throwing out the Hadron Collider as a research resource. Its one of the few things I have seen that keep QMs in check and makes them playable in a long game, especially in 4th or 5th transition.

hmmm...just came up with a new idea...combining a nano deck with a biology deck, go for slime sentience and then control of the slime via the nanitrs and go for the "New Awakening" victory rather than "Next Step of Human Evolution" that I usually go for with my nanites

>>4588126


Oldschooler alpha-carder :P.

Anything with the "Life" keyword that's higher than Bio 2 qualifies to have Sapience played on it now and get around that auto-kill from Natural Predators/Food Chain. Slime Mold is Bio 1 and either will take out a Bio card that's 1 level or lower than the Bio card you played to bring it into play, MINIMUM 1- NP/FC will let you thereby snuff Slime Mold without paying the extra card.

So he's right- play something at least Bio 2 if you don't want to worry about a quick de-molding, since both of them cost resources double that of the additional Bio card's level- and 2 times zero = free kill on the mold. Trying to kill a Bio 2 by comparison? He has to toss a Bio 3 and pay 6 resource to do it. Much tougher.

>>4588087
If you ask me, Promo Cards or not, they're still way overpowered.

I mean, even if you ignore the movie-tie-in fluff, it's more-or-less an A.I. card with the ability to stack Android counters, BUT, it can do so into a Biology deck thanks to the Pseudoflesh Disguise sidebar.

There is no way that should even be playable, even if you're not adopting the Temporal Flux houserules.

>>4588261
>DURR HURR, I'M A HUMUNGOUS FAGGOT THAT WALLOWS IN GALLONS OF SHIT

>>4588261
Did you ever, EVER actually PLAY Mage: The Ascension, or are you deliberately blurting bullshit to troll?

>>4588417
You know, it really reflects poorly on your argument if you have to resort to personal attacks.

>>4588429
I just fucking hate "SCIENCE!" It might be amusing if you don't have to deal with it on a daily basis, but it's an enormous fucking pain in the ass to me.

>>4588429
Too steam punk for my taste. Speaking of which any cards in STH that are good for ending the game early?

>>4588441
>MY OPINION IS OBJECTIVE REALITY, DERP

>>4588486
I've never made any insinuations of the sort.

>>4588528
Yes, you did. Ohhhhh yes, your insinuations are twenty feet high, in Gothic letters.

>>4588290

What's wrong with that? There's plenty of staples from the Mad Science expansion that went into core. Hell, SCIENCE! and Tesla are common as dirt plays nowadays. You can still put together some fun Mechanical/Physics decks that are competitive even now, and MS expansion is perfectly legal in both unlimited and 21st Century-earlier play.

I have a fun deck that repeatedly cycles Death Ray and Teslonic Vibrational Device until it destroys all of your opponent's unfinished Scenarios, which can often stop them from getting Progress to the top of the chart for a win.

I call it Edison's Nemesis. People hate it.

>>4588538
Where?

>>4588485
There's the Mutually Assured Destruction card in the Atomics deck, but that one only causes both sides to have a lose-lose tie. I'm not sure if there's any others, but I've missed a few expansion releases, so I'm probably wrong.

>>4588393

That's why the mechanic was released as a promo card. They'd like to give us more Mechanical/Biological deck options, and dual-keywording like that is one way to do it without making existing archetypes too strong.

>>4588552
You get a Space Defense program in there, tie it with traditional missile defense and have backyard bunkers / cold war paranoia you can just about survive turning it into a win. Risky strategy though.

>>4588575
I suppose, but they really should consider other hybrid deck possibilities, too, instead of just "Cyborg"-style Mech/Bio rehashes.

I mean, Physics/Chemistry might be a cool mix - a friend of mine talked the gameleader at his local shop to houserule an "Explosives" deck option, and it works pretty solidly.

>>4588485
See >>4588540 for an example. You burn out all of their Scenarios, they can't progress, and if the Scenario deck is empty and you can't replace a Scenario after you've completed it, game ends immediately.

>>4588552

MAD is a nasty card- but remember, it only destroys 20 Scenario cards on each side. It's just that most people use the tournament minimum and that means MAD is a game-ender, since it's "Destroy 20 Scenario cards on each side, starting with completed ones. Remove all Progress gains from all Scenarios so destroyed. Destroy all Resources (including Pool) in play.All players shuffle their decks and draw 5 new cards.

Assuming you've got a few extra Scenarios in that deck, you can come back just fine. I've seen decks nuke the board and proceed to rebuild just fine- they just lose some predictability in which Scenarios they can pull for Progress gain.

>>4588661
ooh, clever. I forgot about that.... coulda sworn 20 was all you could have, period, not just tourney-minimum.

>>4588593

Yeah, Mechanical decks can put things like SDI in, but it's a serious metagame choice, since each one in play is a resource hog, only protects against Mechanical/Physics sources of damage, and only on a 1-2 roll at that. Missile Defense and Hardened Defenses/Bunkers can swing a roll by 1 each against the same sources, which can usually preserve -a- Scenario, maybe a few if you get lucky and have it all in hand when your opponent MAD's. Plus, all that meta-defense tends to dilute your Applications deck hardcore.

Personally, I run a 25-30 Scenario card deck myself. It doesn't optimize Scenario draws, but there's a lot of vindictive Mechanical players around here, and MAD is popular.

>>4588683

Nope. It's a lot like many CCG's that way- people want to minimize chance, so they take the dead minimum deck sizes.

MAD and Scenario killing cards in general are how S:TH keeps that in check. I run one copy of MAD in my Edison's Nemesis deck, but since it's recovery isn't good, it's a "final kill" move only once I've managed to Death Ray or TVD a few Scenario cards off the top.

>>4588789

Requesting an archive on this one- I don't get to see many STH threads outside of /tg/ for some reason, and this has been a most interesting discussion so far. Just wish they could get a decent net version working.

So you turned a much-needed, yet ill-guided addition to the nWoD into an unholy abomination spawned from MtG and Mornington Crescent?

>>4588833
I think a lot of folks are hesitant to make a net version because of rule complexity - it tends to be a bit of a dealbreaker, especially with newer players, but that's part of the appeal, in my opinion, since it keeps down munchkins trying to twist wording around to loophole their way into a cheater's win.

>>4588845

Please. Mornington Crescent doesn't have any rules structure whatsoever. STH is a CCG.

Three decks- Resources (minimum 60), Applications (minimum 40), Scenarios (minimum 20). Opening draw is 10 cards, draws split as you like between the 3.

All cards must have the same "era", or be marked as "any era" on the card itself. No putting a "Future" Scenario into a Modern-era deck, for example. Movies or not, we don't have Skynet in 2009. :)

It's not tough. You keep track of your Tech and Progress- a piece of paper or even counters will do. Draw, pay ongoing costs on cards, Research (pay for and put applications, resources into play), Advancement (use most Applications, pay for points towards Scenarios in play), Plan (play a single Scenario if you've completed one that turn), Pool (opponent chooses one of your un-used Resources for use the next turn), end turn. Repeat.

Resources on your side generate Tech (I know, it's a silly term for Philosophy/Luddite decks, but that's the name) up to the stated one on the card, and you can play a single Resource up to one tech level higher. That's "overteching" a Resource, and there's many cards that exploit that, usually to a negative effect. Overteched resources are played upside down to show their status.

>>4589100

>>4588845

One Resource with Tech 1 let you play a single level 2. Two level 2's let you play a single level 3. Two level 3's a Tech 4, and so on. Most Applications take Resources of a specific Tech level or higher, plus a generic number of any Resource to play. Many also take a specific keyword, like "Death Ray" requires a Tech 4 Mechanical, 6 Mechanical of any kind, and two generic Resources. It's shown shorthand as TMech4, Mechx6, Genx2 for cost. If something destroys lower Tech resources after a higher level resource is in play, the resource without Tech support becomes "overteched", but isn't removed from play (though no new ones can be played unless supported, as noted above.)

Most Applications are only playable in their phase, though ones with the "Response" keyword can be played at any time on -either- player's turns.

Progress is the main "win condition" for a game. Completed Scenarios are worth Progress- depending on the Era, that can be anything from 10 (Dark Age/Luddite decks) to 40 (Future) points. A Scenario can be discarded from play at the end of any turn, at which point a new one is drawn from your deck (and can be played on your next turn). Running out of Scenarios before you can Progress to the top is a loss (decking out). Resource and Application decks are reshuffled when no cards remain to be drawn and reused indefinitely, unless an Application or other effect "removes them from play".

>>4588845
>much-needed

Already done.

>>4589109

"that can be anything from 10 (Dark Age/Luddite decks) to 40 (Future) points."

Copypastaing from the old rulebook is a bad thing. That's how much Progress it takes a deck to win- the lower the era, the fewer Progress it takes to win, and Luddite decks actually get "Progress" points from wrecking yours at a "you lost 2, we get 1" ratio, making them serious pains in the rear to later-era decks.

Smacking up a few steam engines is one thing. When the Luddites manage to blow up an entire civilization's worth of self-aware AI's, it can be a win for them in a hurry.

>>4589100
>Mornington Crescent doesn't have any rules structure whatsoever
Stopped reading there.

>>4589129
Liar.

We did a Symposium Draft the other night and the idiots let me nab nearly every Nanotech cheese card they've ever put out. It was a massacre.

>>4589299
>BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWW!!!!

>>4589391
I had a guy on the ropes with my Physics deck until he whipped out 'Gray Goo' and fucked us both. Fuckers.

>>4589420
Not only are you doing it wrong, but you also admit that you have the average level of nWoD player maturity, eg. almost at infant level.

>>4589493
I'm not the one calling people liars when they voice their opinion.

>>4589503
But you're the one with the witty greentext retorts.

I don't know what is this thread about anymore...

>>4589550
What, I can't accuse people of being emotionally invested, nostalgic grognards anymore?

>>4589245

Unless you mean by "rules structure" as being "whatever random inserts we can put into the game".

Comparing that to S:TH is like comparing Calvinball to a game of chess. Both are games, but that's about as close a comparison as you get.

>>4589595
While being a retarded nostalgophobic grognard yourself?

>>4589610
>HERP DERP, I'M A GREAT BIG RETARD WHO DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF RULES STRUCTURE IF IT ASSRAPES ME WITH A THREE FOOT SPIKED DILDO

>>4589613
No?

Hey, could you take the flamefest about World of Darkness someplace else? Seriously not on topic here, stop trolling the thread.

>>4589453

The trick to dealing with Goo is remembering that at the end of any turn, it destroys what it's on- but if whatever it's on is destroyed before then, the controller of the destroyed card places it on a new target.

So if you can get some use out of sacrificing whatever it's on, go ahead, burn it out with Meltdown or something and drop it on whatever Resource or Application you want screwed over before his next turn comes up. Your turn ends, and BOOM, Goo will get rid of whatever it is and bounce back to your side. Of course, you'll lose whatever he puts in on at the end of HIS turn, but hurrying things along can help.

>>4589671
What is on topic? "LOL RANDOM NONSENSICAL SCIENCE REFERENCES"?

Personally, I like running a Pyschology deck.

I know it's not really tournament viable, but those games where I lose horribly are nicely compensated by the ones where 'cognitive dissonance' comes out at the right time and I my opponent is suddenly incapable of research. Or 'Subjective interpretation' redirecting that quantum effect.

So much fun.

>>4589707
>implying Psychology is a science

>>4589632

Puh-lease. You're talking about a game where finding a -rulebook- would be the equivalent of the Holy Grail. The entire concept of MC is a parody of complex, rules-thick games like Science: The Hypothesis.

Heck, it's the name of a bloody Quantum Mechanics card that copies a random card in your friggin deck. Except on a 6. In which case it goes three stops uptown and is discarded. LOLRANDUM!

>>4589731

You're one of those people who think the game jumped the shark after the 'Scientific Method' expansion hit aren't you?

It uses the tool, it qualifies. Live with it.

/tg/, i love you.

>>4589731

Actually, it's a keyword in Philosophy decks. They tend to be good at "modifiers" but aren't worth much for solid stuff in and of themselves. You can win with one- usually by making your opponent's deck self-destruct- but it's darn rare to see one win on Progress. Especially since a lot of Scenario cards for Philo decks require you to make an opponent do something, rather than YOU doing it.

take the WoD crap back to rpg.net

the fan rpg project Genius: the Transgression is not the same thing as the CCG Science: the Hypothesis. I realize it is easy for your feeble mind to get confused but try to keep up.

>>4589769

Philosophy decks are like that though. They can screw with everything, but don't produce shit on their own. If you can live with being entirely reactive they can be really effective.

Pairing with some psychology just emphasises that tendancy in both. I've seen it used to amazing effects. Makes a pretty nifty complement to maths sets too actually, people don't often realise how well those two sit together.

>>4589812

Well, Philo in general is a "mess with everyone", Psychology is a keyword in Philo decks, and there are generic cards with the "mathematical" or "theoretical" + common decktype keywords that fit in nicely.

It's just that you can often get stuck with a hand full of response-applications that don't apply to the situation at hand and watch your opponent walk slowly along to victory, and that drives me nuts.

I'm much more a Mechanical fan personally, but times where someone managed to change my Tesla to "Philsophy" as I used the effect and I had to return my opponent's card (as I had no legal target otherwise) instead give me a health respect for a good Philo deck.

They work wonders combined with Biology, too. Seeing a frickin' Lab Monkey buffed into producing three times the Research at Tech -5- Biology was heinous. And then he used Science for Peace on me. G'bye everything with the "Weapon" keyword, and my precious Tesla blow-em-ups all went straight to discardsville.

bump

>>4589898
Have you tried the Zeno's Paradoxes Set? Great way to disrupt a game, cheap to play and can be used very early on in the game. Honestly a must have

>>4593487
The dichotomy paradox card is overpowered if you ask me. Logical impossibility plays. BAH!

>>4593487
ehhhh, too easy to power through with Field Tests and Applied Engineering.

>>4586981
No one cares about Artist's Decks. *sigh*