Sure, why not.

Probably. Samurai-class women are still honor-bound to sleep with their arranged husbands and make more babies for the family, even if they don't enjoy it.

>>4547078
Cool story, bro.

Actually, let's expand this thread somewhat. Anyone who's studied history will probably notice that, even in the most decadent-behind-the-scenes ancient realms (Greece, Rome, Japan) where male homosexuality appears a TON and is well-known, lesbians are virtually nonexistent in the historical record. Partially, this is attributed to the general suppression of women, and partially because if it didn't involve a penis, it wasn't considered sex.

Rokugan, like most fantasy settings, has a "women can do anything a man can do" clause. Women suffer no -4 Str, can become Samurai and perform just as competently as their male peers, and generally kick as much ass as any man. While the setting admits to not being entirely egalitarian, it's a LOT moreso than Japan actually was.

So, what effect would this have on lesbianism in Rokugan?

Or, fuck, any fantasy setting?

>>4547178
Good question.

>>4547178
I think you answered your own question there. "Women can do anything a man can do."

This includes Homosexuality. Unless I'm not correctly getting what you're asking.

It's a bad idea to have lesbians in any game. Too much drama. Lesbians are basically a drama MAGNET.

Last one we had in our group was Exalted. She expected EVERY single female, PC or NPC, to be gay or at least bisexual, and hit on them all. When I tried to explain that most of them were straight, she called me a homophobe for "ruining her fun". Then she started using Solar mindfuck Charms to make them sleep with her, it was a real shitfuck.

>>4547483
That's just one bad player, shouldn't keep you from keeping them in the game

>>4547483

You keep using words like 'she' and 'her', yet the character is played like a typcial neckbard playing a woman…
Wat?

>>4547483

I hit on everyone and everything but I don't expect them to like it. Its a subconcious social defense mechanism.

>>4547503
Some gamer girls have neckbeards too.

are you a carpetmunching gutterslut?

>>4547534
They tend to be fat, too.

>>4547503

The player herself was female. Fat and ugly as shit, but female. And HARD GAY.

>>4547578
Called it.

>>4547078
Probably.

Immaterial, because sexuality should generally not be the subject of an RP.

>>4547483
The sad thing is, this is what solars are likely to do.

"Love me!...I said LOVE ME FAGGS" *dozens of motes are expended and people's brains run out their noses until they do, in fact, love her*

>>4547078
Shouldn't be an issue. Just be very discrete, fulfill your normal duties as a woman, and don't annoy your lord. Extramarital affairs in general are often ignore as long as they are out of sight and don't become a problem.

Adultery is punishable by death in premodern Japan. Adultery is also defined as a married woman having relations with another MAN.

In Japan there have been a few "pillow books" and diaries where the women writing them have hinted at having very... intimate "friendships" with servants or other noblewomen.

There are some canon L5R stories where some of the women depicted seem to have "very intimate friendships."

Somehow I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch of the imagination for lesbianism in Rokugan to be one of the accepted-but-unspoken aspects of high society. As long as the women produce their husbands an heir who cares what she's doing with the neighbor's wife?

>>4548116
>There are some canon L5R stories where some of the women depicted seem to have "very intimate friendships."

Do tell!

>>4548116
Now, if Wikipedia is to be believed (ha!) lesbianism is considered to be a 'teen' thing in Japan - women are expected to grow up and start liking men later on. There's a whole literature genre based on them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_S_(genre)

And there's always Marimite, of course.

>>4547483
>my personal experience with a small handful of lesbians reflects absolute objective truths
The dyke in our group is a pretty cool, gal, seh causes no drama and doesn't afraid of anything.

>>4549016
In MODERN Japan.

We're not talking about modern Japan.

>>4549110

See? It's made of jade, so obviously female magistrates were lesbians who fought bravely against the Shadowlands

As in accordance with most EVERYTHING in Rokugan, the actual activity is not 'punished' for being 'wrong' unless the participates are caught.

But Im guessing that since women are treated on an equal footing with men in rokugan, the punishments are just as bloody harsh.

>>4549129

>>4549141
I figured it was more like the Dragonbloods.
As long as you pop out the requisite number of heirs, no one gives two shits about what you do in your off time, or with whom.

>>So, what effect would this have on lesbianism in Rokugan?

>>Or, fuck, any fantasy setting?

I'd like to discuss the equal opportunity thing instead.

In a good fantasy setting it's explained (or at least hinted) why females of a determinate class would have this "equal opportunity".
In Exalted for example I'd say it pretty much is "whoever can kick ass whit charmes and shit can pretty much do whatever they want". This is the 99% of Exalted there, so DB.

In DND there's no explanation. Disclaimer: i LIKE Dnd, at least some edition, but anyway I like the concept. A concept which proposes no social explanation whatever for itself, it's just "have fun in your dungeon crawl" so to speak, or maybe "have fun with some medieval concepts here and there".

Rokugan? I don't think there's an explanation for the equal opportunity issue (execpt for shugenjas, kami do what the hell they want). I'd not go out and say Rokugan fails as a setting for this, but they should explain the equal opportunity thing (or "why women aren't supposed to be silent and obedient mares") better IMHO. At least hint it: it's a GREAT issue in a pre-industrial society.

On lesbianism proper:

>>4548116

I concur with this anon about les yay in kimono IRL and so in Rokugan (I think gay men samurai is pretty much obvious of course, IRL and so in the setting).
But there's an issue, the fact that most "ritualistic" homosexuality (I have ancient Greece in mind, correct me about Japan if it's the case) is caused by a great deal of segregation between the sexes. There are not many female (or male) only schools in Rokugan, so maybe this samurai kids just fuck straight...
... but that being said, anyhow, intimate "friendship" is in any case expected with samurais of the same sex, methinks. At the very least, it's easier to sneak in their rooms and say "we were just discussing who has the cutest obi/ we were just drinking some sake, N-dono!").

Also, fuck. Now I want a Marimite equivalent in Rokugan.

>>4549179

It sort of is like that. Mostly, individuals involved with the courts typically did whatever they wanted in their free time. And if you were caught, it was merely a matter of giving bribes or offering favors for the captor to keep quiet, depending on your clan and how honorable you are.

>>4549110

STAT THIS

as a nemuranai

>>4549192
Why should there be unequal opportunity? It's a more unstable system.

>>4547078
The subject itself is failure. You just want to post that picture again.
Go fap to it if you want, but the thread wasn't needed again.

>>4549233

Well, yes, it could be perfectly viable. But hell, I can't even think of ONE fantasy setting that does it out of my mind. Even fucking LOTR allows for females (and the GIRSA one was faithful to JRRT).

RPG writers: not afraid of holocaust, raep, xenophobia and religious idiocy.
But afraid of being accused of not supporting equal opportunity.

>>4549328
Go read some Mercedes Lackey.
No lesbians.
Insane amounts of gay.
Not unfair at all.

>>4549192
On the equal opportunity thing, two of the great clans were founded by women, the Crane (Lady Doji) and the Ki-Rin/Unicorn (Lady Shinjo) and a few families are matriarchal, notably the Matsu, O/Utaku, Moshi, and (possibly) Shosuro/Soshi. Harping on women being the weaker sex is likely to get an Utaku Battle Maiden or Matsu Berserker's attention and she will show you how the "gentle sex" fights. After you get your ass kicked, the pretty little Doji girls make sure EVERYONE hears about it.

As other people have said, if you are discreet and fulfill your duty (an heir and a spare) no one cares who you do what with.

>>4548116

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_friendship

>>4549192
<Rokugan? I don't think there's an explanation for the equal opportunity issue (execpt for shugenjas, kami do what the hell they want). I'd not go out and say Rokugan fails as a setting for this, but they should explain the equal opportunity thing (or "why women aren't supposed to be silent and obedient mares") better IMHO. At least hint it: it's a GREAT issue in a pre-industrial society.>

Sorry dude but I must refute you here, in most of the core rule books it is stated SOMEWHERE that women are on par (and sometimes greater) then their male counterparts because the setting itself despite its cultural heritage is an equal opportunity environmen.

E.G Page 25 of the 1st Edition Core Book of L5R states it.

>>4549365
What clan is the woman with the sexy glowing green eyes and the woman in the back with her right boob hanging out (hidden)?

>>4549445

Spider and Crane, respectively.

>Rokugan? I don't think there's an explanation for the equal opportunity issue (execpt for shugenjas, kami do what the hell they want). I'd not go out and say Rokugan fails as a setting for this, but they should explain the equal opportunity thing (or "why women aren't supposed to be silent and obedient mares") better IMHO. At least hint it: it's a GREAT issue in a pre-industrial society.

Samurai-ko are suppose to be celibate, and that's the reason they're treated as equals. Peasants are expected to be equal since they both have to work in the fields. If they do marry unless it's a clan who has a matriarchal head, they are suppose to be seen but not heard...etc. Assuming they're not Samurai-Ko.

>>4549445
From Left to Right:

Crab, Unicorn, Spider, Scorpion, Crane (sitting), Dragon (reclining), Mantis, Lion (Background), Phoenix (Foreground).

>>4549471
No the crane is the one with the her hair in what looks like a fan and is in blue.

>>4549192
Because about half of the diety-equivalents were women who were on par with their male counterparts because magic, and that kind of example can decide the course of an entire culture on gender roles.

>>4549328

In a setting I'm working on humans and orcs have pretty traditional views on gender relations (i.e. women as property). Between individual nations / villages, women may be treated better or worse comparatively, but the only way a woman is going to be seen as "equal" is if she's a mage or high ranking nobility.

Elvers are entirely female because all the men were killed by a virus be virus also allows elves to reproduce via parthenogenesis.

My Dwarves have gender equality because their men and women look the same. Intimate same-sex relationships are commonplace, but I also have dwarves as having sex solely for reproductive purposes.

>>Sorry dude but I must refute you here, in most of the core rule books it is stated SOMEWHERE that women are on par (and sometimes greater) then their male counterparts because the setting itself despite its cultural heritage is an equal opportunity environmen.

E.G Page 25 of the 1st Edition Core Book of L5R states it.

Well, stating that it's good, but I feel it needs an explanation (possibly in 3rd ed as that's my, but anyhow).
I can't remember a single matriarchal society (in pre-industrial societies) with cities and shit (say, anything more than a shepered tribe of some hundred people... or at best some interconneted tribes like that), and Rokugan is supposedly a realistic pseudo-historical setting with cities, millions of people.
Maybe there's a "magical" explanation, but I didn't catch it.
I like L5R, I just feel they should've explained some things way better.

>>4549445

Spider and Crane I suppose.

>>4549491

I was looking at the wrong one in the back, it seems. Nevermind.

>>4549489
Oh Unicorn... I always forget them, maybe it's because they have such a gay symbol for a clan. Who seriously picks the damn unicorn to be their clan's name? Spider-Clan chick is very hot, the Lion Clan is 2nd imho.

>>4549365
Which clans are the upper two left ones? I can identify the clans of all the others. And which is crab?

>>4549511

And the point is that if I've seen matriarchal societies (GREAT societies) I can't remeber real equal opportunity ones before the industrial revolution (well, let's say ours is kinda equal).

>>4549525
Headband chick. Unicorn has her hands on the Crab's leg, and the Spider is the sexy glowing green eyed chick.

>>4549482
Hhmm yes I do read that here in the book, but it seems to me every person in the damn game that plays a chick does not follow that norm, and I have not seen that particular take on the rule in any of the recent 3rd Ed books (which I hate for blitzing away from the culture so much) would you mind refering me to a page number that I may consult to validiate your statement please?

>>4549502
I like this.

>>4549551
Hold on let me find it.

>>4549546
You have Crab and Unicorn switched, gray is a Crab color and purple is a Unicorn color.

I propose that none of those women are from the Crab, because a Crab would be on the wall defending the Empire. And a Crab would find a tetsubo to be an adequate alternative to a pillow for the naked lesbian pillow fights, and let me tell you, after an incident like that you do not get invited back.

>>Samurai-ko are suppose to be celibate, and that's the reason they're treated as equals. Peasants are expected to be equal since they both have to work in the fields. If they do marry unless it's a clan who has a matriarchal head, they are suppose to be seen but not heard...etc. Assuming they're not Samurai-Ko.

This sounds interesting. It's not perfect (why exactly shouldn't badass female bushi have a word in decisions with their husbands after they marry?) but it's something.

>>4549567
p. 34

FUCK SPIDER! FUCKING SHADOWLANDS SCUM! THEY'RE NOT A CLAN!

>>4549575

Hey, Crabs can have fun too. Maybe using their tetsubos differently.

>>4549628
The rest the clans view them as a clan even if they are just a front for yet another evil from Shadowlands.

>>4549575
Not all Crab serve at the wall.

>>4549635
This is why everything after Clan War era is shit.

>>4547078

Ah, Blackbird stuff. Haven't seen those in a while.

>>4549628

At least they don't bullshit you like the Scorpion.

>>4549599
Thank you very much for the page number, but is that the main core book for 3rd Ed or one of its many supplements?.

>>4549588
Plus yes you'll find that many a high Status wife can ignore her lesser husbands common suggestions (but not the baby making ones through she could have an affair and such to fake it) and a high glory wife will often go out and do courageous things and such when times are dire...but high glory wives generally lose glory quickly if they don't follow their new 'lords' will (MAKE BABIES) ...

Man I just realised married life sucks ass for most chicks in Rokugan (go the Crab/Unicorn...and occasionally crane...but their more stuck up hoes)

What is this 'Spider Clan' you speak of? I've certainly never heard of it.

I bet you believe in the Kolat and the Tooth Bakemono, too.

>>4549110
What museum is that in? I want to go see it.

>>4549635
No they do not...The Empress has declared them traitors and ordered the Imperial Legions to burn them out of the Shinomen forest. Before that only the Unicorn acknowledged them, and even then they did not consider them as equals.

>>4549649
I agree, at least we got the kick-ass Mantis out the Clan War. If it was up to me I'd still have the Clan War going on. The Shadowlands all sudden shriveled up and disappear, there's a land rush. Every clan rushes to claim what remains of the shadowlands doubling the size of Rokugan.

>>4549662
3e. I don't have the 3e Revised.

>>4549681
The Empress??? Can someone please fill me in on WTF is happening in Rokugan right now? Because the Roleplaying books post what has HAPPENED but not how or the reasons behind it because that would require actual writing and not rule mechanics.

...plus I dont follow the CCG.

We can all agree that the cancer that is affecting Rokugan is the metaplot.

Anyway
>> go the Crab/Unicorn...and occasionally crane...but their more stuck up hoes)

This is how Cranes tease you. They act as moeblobs BUT...

Pic crane-related.

Also, Matsu bitches.

>>4549759
I have to agree with you...Lady Matsu is the BOMB, a mean a human woman fighting Akodo to a bloody stand still, no other human has ever come close to accomplishing such a task and BOOYAA talk about being faithful to her lord to the bitter end, becoming his wife would have trashed her ability to serve him as a warrior....

Lady Matsu I cry manly tears for your memory.

>>4549658
That is a funny one, the Spider planted assassins through out the Empire and attempted to take over by creating a huge disruption in the chains of command of all the Great Clans. Fortunately they failed to get enough people to reach critical mass. The Spider are the latest group of failures who follow the God of Failure. Fu-Fu is such a retard he did not even see the thunders coming a second time, most of them even survived the fight, he only got Hoturi and Tadaka.

You guys talk like equality needs an explanation as if that isn't the natural way of things. Discrimination is only ever a power grab.. not based on any logical reasoning why a different gender/race/whatever can't do something.

Equality isn't some new thing. It is going back to basics. Discrimination was what was invented by some brilliant guy that knew they could use hatred to divide people and give himself the advantage. We had to be convinced of it. Even generation to generation, this behavior only survives if it is passed on.

Our natural mode of thinking is "well.. can the job be done? okay! do it!"

That a setting doesn't give a shit as long as the person can do the job should be all the reasoning needed.

spider clan sucks you guys should rp as members of foot

>>4549740
Don't bother, the storyline has gotten completely lame, incomprehensible, and is just overall shit.

You're better off picking an era you like and making up your own history from there.

>>4549740
Kitsuki Iweko

Basically Hantei Dynasty was killed off, after the Emperor became host to the BBEG of the time. Then came the Toturi Dynasty where Toturi III sacrificed himself so the 7 Legendary Artifacts of the Clans could be returned. His wife became Empress in till she committed suicide.

>>4549837
The L5R writers are completely incapable of coming up with an interesting story that doesn't involve killing the Emperor (not that anything they make these days is interesting at all).

You'd think that eventually the clans will do what Japan did, and just not give a shit about the imperial family for a few hundred years.

>>4549830
I'm actually as we speak writing up a module for L5r set 500 years before the clan war, it begins in the province of the crane as a group of young hopefuls are given a 'grading' before they are allowed to take their gempukku ceremony. The studants are seperated into groups A,B & C with the players being group A, the Gm is then given a choice of WHICH grading teacher to use out of five potentials each with their own attitudes and goals. The adventure then goes on little paths that lead towards the same goal (the characters gempukku) however the journey is riddeled with tests that challenge EVERY aspect of being a samurai not just combat (I have various Lore, Theology, Survival I threw in the works even a few naughty honour checks) for each test they pass they get a point, the team with the highest points at the end gains an edge during their gempukku as the graders have whispered words into the sensei's ears.

....what you guys think?

(Whilst this module is set in a certain era and has certain characters and clans involved I have stated at the end of the module that Gms can feel free to move it to any era they like and which clans etc as long as the personalities are intact, because they make the game)

>>4549804

>>Discrimination is only ever a power grab.. not based on any logical reasoning why a different gender/race/whatever can't do something.

Substitute whatever with class: so it is money. (inb4 fuck you commie)
If a fantasy setting provides (as it usually do, at least in RPGs) a pseudo-historical social setting or some derivations of, I'd say money has to be there... as all civilizations after a certain point used it.
If all societies in history (after domestication and before the industrial age) seem to have been sexual-discriminating, I can be sad over the thing and ask me why it's been so, but a psuedo-historical setting who escapes this, especially a more "historical" than most as Rokugan, has to explain me why it is so. Or at least suggest something, as in >>4549482

>>4549740
Recently the Race for the Throne mega-game ended and the Dragon won the throne, beating the Scorpion by one point. The Dragon canidate was Kitsuki Iweko and she is now Empress. The Shogun is Moto Jin-sahn. The Imperial Chancellor is Bayushi Hisoka. The Imperial Treasurer is Yoritomo Utemaro. The Voice of the Empress is Togashi Satsu. The Imperial Advisor is Daigotsu Susumu. The Scorpion won the Test of the Emerald Champion and Shosuro Jimen is the Emerald Champion.

Recently the Dark Oracle of Fire has started an invasion using the Yojambin Tribes. He has them hopped up of super fire magic that makes them explode when they are killed.

>>4549911
hmm I've played that before, oh yeah, The Test of the Topaz Champion. Try something a bit more original...

>>4549928
Cant help but see a Daigostu in there...

What happened there?

>>4549915

Easy. The first guy who decided "Hey women should stay in the kitchen, am I right guys?" was found brutally murdered the next day. The biggest, meanest hunter in the tribe (who happened to be female) was curiously smug for a few days after that. This happened every time the subject came up. The men learned to shut the fuck up about it.

>>4549928

... well, fuck. I'd stick with the Hanteis, thankyouverymuch.

This "WHAT A TWEEST" shit isn't good for a japan feeling, methinks, where the emperor is an ummovable demi-god.

>>4549943
...As much as it is that the Topaz championship was a great game it did not capture the elements of the game I was hoping to capture with my module. My module is an attempt poor as it may be for a first time writer to force more focus oh what made Rokugan a unique setting, its culture.

Plus I would prefer if you had any criticism to give me that you at least make it more then a single line and actually made it constructive thank you.

>>4549482

City of Honor's Sacrifice. Do you know it?

>>4549489
Please clear something up for me: I thought that Unicorn was the only clan to wear animal skins, and the one you have labeled as Lion certainly appears to have a garment including some sort of fur. Am I misinformed, or not interpreting the picture correctly, or what?

>>4549915
This is more of a case of there always haveing been plenty of female warriors. Not in the quantities of males.. but they are super special and rare.

They just get "conveniently" forgotten and the non existence of females as fighters pushed as common knowledge when the gender pendulum swings one way.

>>4549981

Matsu are furries.

>>4549964
Think of it more like the Chinese imperial model, where sometimes the mandate just runs out.

Storyline is still shit, though.

>>4549946
The Empress knows Susumu's nature and is using him for his insight into how the Spider think. Also he is untainted.

>>4549981
There are lots of Lions that wear furs. Pic related.

>>4549982

Uhm, well, in Rokugan equal opportunity means you can easily be a female general of a fuckin army. It's not some exceptions...

... still, probably the setting could withstand such modifications (bitches get back to the kitchen, no samurai-ko for ya EXECPT for the matriarchal clans were guys get back to whatever they get back to).

>>4549982
KGFJLHFLJGH

FUCK ME.

AREN'T SUPER SPECIAL AND RARE.

Female fighters always existed in good quantities.

100 Years after the Clan Wars the rest of Rokugan is tired of having their Emperor die every few years. So all the clans split from the empire establishing their own Dynasties lead by a Shogun instead of a Daimyo.

>>4549999

>>The Empress knows Susumu's nature and is using him for his insight into how the Spider think. Also he is untainted.

Alderac has left me in RAGE.

>>4549928
>The Dragon canidate was Kitsuki Iweko and she is now Empress.
Hahahahaaha. I remember when the Kitsuki first popped up, with their silly ideas of "evidence" for criminal courts. Now one of 'em's the Empress? That's rich.

Ah well, I've always been a big Dragon fan, so this pleases me, even if the metaplot is shit.

So let me get this straight...story sucks, setting rocks
and developers still ignoring the roleplayers contributions
to the game as if we were gnats to be swatted.

....still wont stop me from doing what I love and playing a damn good Scorpion/Dragon/Phoenix or Lion....I cant seem to rp the others so well thought.

>>4549759
Yeah, I fell for that shit TWICE from the same Crane. They are just really good at that trick.

>>4550023

... and then, enter the Merenae East Indies Company and their divide et impera way.

>>4549977
By your own description your module sounds just like Test of the Topaz Champion, adding Lore or Theology tests does not make it any different. I just called it as I saw it. Your little twist of 500 years before the Clan War just means you have to explain who Doji Bishojo is and why he is important. A well run TotTC is exactly what you are trying to do.

That better?

>>4549990
I'd thought that was purely biological. Silly me.

>>4550002
Ah. My mistake, then. Never played the CCG, just the RPG.


>>4549915
My take on this: Societies through history generally discriminate based upon gender because in the lower classes of an agriculturally based society, women are constantly pregnant and often everyone is malnourished, meaning that everyone's weaker and the women are dying young in childbirth all over the place. In all likelihood, Rokugani peasants are perfectly willing to discriminate based upon gender amongst themselves. However, Rokugan has both a heavy female presence in its warrior classes and gender-neutral magic, meaning that in the upper classes gender bias can't really get that much of a foothold.

>>4550059
Thank you actually that is alot better, now I can go back read up on the Topaz championship and do my best to revise things so that it isnt blatant copying (which I hate alot) ....damn and my work took up three entire days of writing so far, thought I had really gone about things a different way....sure it ends in gempukku, but it was about the journey not the destination.

>>4550035
Right on the money.

>>4550057
No, a Merenae ship crashes with a new technology. Flintlocks, previously illegal under Imperial Law the new Shogunates take these Firearms and a few began to use them and replicate them. Others tend to view them with disgust, these are the Crane, Crab, and Unicorn (mainly because it scares their horses). The Scorpions use it to enhance their warfare outside of stealth. Phoenixes & Dragons show no interest in it. Lions & Mantis really take it to heart, mostly because Lions have the largest military and always want a heads-up. The Lions use Eta Musketeers, since they have no rights it won't matter if they own "dishonorable" weapons. Mantis use them because it's cheap, easy to wear & use (with practice), and evens their disadvantage with calvary

>>4550120
I like the cut of your gib mate.

>>4550120
I'd except a few Crab to use whatever they could get their hands on to defend the Wall though. Guns wouldn't be out of the question if a scene gets desperate enough.

>>4550132
I don't get what you're trying to say.

>>4550154
he means he wants to have anal sex with you

>>I'd thought that was purely biological. Silly me.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's ALSO biological... What's their relationships with nezumis btw?

>>My take on this: Societies through history generally discriminate based upon gender because in the lower classes of an agriculturally based society, women are constantly pregnant and often everyone is malnourished, meaning that everyone's weaker and the women are dying young in childbirth all over the place. In all likelihood, Rokugani peasants are perfectly willing to discriminate based upon gender amongst themselves. However, Rokugan has both a heavy female presence in its warrior classes and gender-neutral magic, meaning that in the upper classes gender bias can't really get that much of a foothold.

Point is, even higher classes of pre-industrial societies had their women "in check". Probably because of the mare-treatment as seen before.
So, ok, no problem with the shugenjas, the kami did it. Courtiers? Sure, why not? Maybe with some more honor problems, but seems fine. It's probably not much of a a problem if a courtier is pregnant now and then. Imagine the female importance in intellectual circles in 1700 europe.
But I don't see explanations about the female bushis. Sounds strange to me to have them on the battle and after expect they'll go back to the kitchen.

>>4550152

Guns? Why guns?

Just grapeshot the onis. Epic lulz ensue.

Well, before they mine the Wall.

>>4550152
Crab clan is reluctant of using guns because they don't want to waste their time with Gaijin weapons when a good sword or tetsubo does the trick. However when a band of musketeers from the Lion Clan arrived to help the Crab Clan at the wall the Crabs have a healthily respect for the weapon. The falcon clan uses the muskets the most, they were the ones to invent rifling even before the Gaijin did, as with the bow they have to aim carefully than shooting with luck.

While muskets/rifles are new, the old crossbow has actually seen an increase. The crossbow easier than a bow to fire, and with more force they're heavily favored with the Scorpion clan. Assassins now are trained in the crossbow, as it has more stopping power than the shortbow, so that armor is no obstacle.

>>4549502

fuck off with your lack of knowlege. motherfucker.

>>4550068
still didn't stop there being plenty of actual historical female warriors in history. That there weren't is more a modern misconception.

But yeah, that makes sense. It takes one man to make ten women pregnant. A woman can only have one kid at a time. It would be silly to send the entire hope for your next generation off to die. Also, someone has to keep the home front going. If everyone goes to fight then you just leave an empty town. But try not to exaggerate the dangerousness of pregnancy. You make it sound like everyone had no mothers. Most women didn't die.. the great majority survived having many kids.

I'd say the women fighting were probably the ones that weren't having kids and weren't married anyway.. but battlefield babies were an actual phenomenon. Pop a kid out between fights. Go back to fighting.

>>4550165
Ok, as long he has protection and lube and I get to go top next.

>>4550329
Also, a woman in full battle gear looks no different from a man. So you wouldn't be able to tell if a woman was at your side anyway.

You all look like men in the armor.

>>4549365
I would hit the Crane girl in a totally polite and courteous way, with the approval of both our families.

I participated in the thread last night, had a brief anecdote about L5R Lesbian.

Shosuro Shinobi with a mad crush on Kachiko, who used her feelings to manipulate her into being a perfectly loyal henchwoman. ended up blowing her mission during the Coup to attempt to save Kachiko. Kachiko yelled at her for being a fuckup, Shinobi runs off and holds off a batallion of Lion with a combination of GAR Willpower combat, explosives, and shadow-brand coming up and giving horrible taint, while dying in the process.

Kachiko is a bitch. ;_;

>>4549662

It really isn't how it works. Female samurai have just as much sex as male samurai. Women in positions of power and badass are respected because nobody wants to get MATSU CRUSH'd.

bump for more rokugani lesbians.

in before someone has a story about "Matsu Daiko"

>>4550618
Explain?

>>4550726
I assume it's a name pun.
Not as good as Matsu Huzyodadi, however.

>>4550726
>Daiko
>Say it out loud a few times
>Drop the o

>>4550752

What about Otaku Beru?

>>4547078

More by this artist?

>>4550758
*thinks*
Oh, god, that's bad.
>>4550778
But not as bad as this.

>>4550348

Fuckin degenerate

name pun discussion what not what I had in mind with bumping. where are the lesbians in kimonos?

>>4550809

Or lesbians OUT of kimonos!

>>4550799
Oh, like YOUR kink is any better.

>>4550794

I've had six people try to play Moto Yugi, Unicorn Clan Master of Games

>>4548791
Matsu Kenji and Hoketuhime had a behind-the-scenes affair. Kenji was trying to cover up her Otemi Lost Love.

>>4549511
There is nothing pseudo-realistic about L5R. It is total fantasy with very deep roots in East Asian history and mythology, primarily Japanese and Chinese.

1st edition was NOT as equal opportunity and sexist (i.e. more realistic) as 2nd and 3rd edition. That's when samurai-ko were required to be celibate.

Pretty sure 3rd Edition is 100% equal opportunity though.

>>4550348
Missionary position for child procreation?

>>4550819
What games we talking about? Game involving shadow creatures and using them against each other in form of playing cards?

>>4551001
One could say that they are children's card games.

>>4549520
Unicorn clan was originally the Ki-rin clan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ki-rin

>>4549662
The Matsu family would like to have a word with you. Don't forget, Matsu women pretty much never go to their husband's clan. The husband of a Matsu takes his wife's name.

>>4549981
Fur and leather are okay but it's never the main part of clothing unless SILK ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU YOU FILTHY GAIJIN etc.

>>4551009
Ok, only if Bayushi Kiba can join.

>>4550030
Dragon ended up winning position of emperor because of how out of character shit with the Race for the Throne metagame played out. Scorpion players were cheating all over the place and saying they were behaving in character. The further they got ahead, the more people started to give up on their own clan and throw their support to the Dragon. It's a long story and it was kind of shitty.

>>4550035
The story isn't as good as it used to but that's because it seems like they're down to only one really good writer. So many of the really good people have left. John WIck is self-important asshole but damn he was an amazing writer.

Have a kitsune pretending to be a loli out of a kimono.

>>4550819
I once played Matsu Kenaka. Started rank 1 with an Earth ring of 4 and max ranks of strength of the earth.

Basically, all he could do is absorb hits that would shatter rock with no visible damage.

Then he got XP, and ended up with a kenjutsu and iaijutsu of 6.

He kharmic strike'd Bayushi Shoju.

Anyway, back to the ghey.

Basically, any sort of crazy wild sexual hijinks are allowed in Rokugan because as long as nobody finds out about it, it basically didn't happen.

Rokugan's roots are primarily in China and Japan, which had no qualms with male or female homosexuality -- to the point where Japan is frequently compared to Greece because of the similar pedagogic homosexual relationships. Nobody had any moral hang-ups about homosexual/bisexual behavior.

It's the same in Rokugan.

So Marimite L5R is totally feasible, especially in Utaku and Matsu schools.

>>There is nothing pseudo-realistic about L5R. It is total fantasy with very deep roots in East Asian history and mythology, primarily Japanese and Chinese.

So I guess the steal from japan part is just not enough creativity?

Regarding lesbianism in Rokugan:
L5R has one open homosexual and one very blatant closet case in the canon NPC's. Both of them are male. Ignoring the matter beyond that is intentional as the game must still be marketed to "the masses" and homophobes spend money, too. It exists, and the above posters that reference "discretion" are spot on.

Adultery is actually extremely common in Rokugan on both ends of the spectrum. Husbands that spend great lengths of time away from home will find someone to spend their idle hours with, frequently in highly sexual manners. Wives whose husbands spend great lengths of time away from home will do the same.

- No Children = No problem
- Husband has illegitimate children = Ignore them, Quietly pay mistress for care, have them killed, or mysteriously adopt child into household while giving some bullshit story about how it is to repay an obligation.
- Wife has illegitimate children = Lie about it. Now they are legitimate.

Case in point: Bayushi Dairu. He was the illegitimate son of Bayushi Kachiko and Doji Hoturi. Bayushi Kachiko's husband, Bayushi Shoju (then Champion of the Scorpion) knew that Dairu was not his, knew who fathered him, and never said a word about it to anyone, including the wife that bore him. Shoju not only treated Dairu like a trueborn legitimate son in public, but adored him like his own flesh and blood.

Exception: The Spider punish Adultery with death.

Regarding Rokugan and Politely Ignoring: Based on Japan, where if a billionaire businessman farts in an important meeting, it doesn't matter unless someone giggles -- Then it causes a tremendous loss of face. Rokugani are very good at "looking the other way" when things happen that might embarrass someone, and infidelity is one of those matters unless their are underlying motivations otherwise (spouse is family, blackmail urges, problematic lack of subtlety, etc.).

>>4551193
Could you rephrase this in the form of some kind of troll comment that is more specific?

I'm saying that L5R is not "pseudo-historical." It borrows from a bunch of East Asian shit, just mostly Japan and China (spoiler alert: 75% Japanese culture etc. was imported from China).

So... come again?

>>4551235

If a game copies (twisting it or not) an actual historical setting, it's pseudo-historical to me.
I guess you feel L5R doesn't copy feudal Japan, but the lack of originality in its setting solutions make me think it does.

I know a guy who was one of the playtesters of the RPG in the early stages. HUGE weeaboo. like "lived in japan for 10 years, married a Japanese woman and took HER name, and named their kid Kenji" weeaboo.

He was, however, possessing a great deal of knowledge for stuff regarding actual Japanese Historical stuff. And during the playtest, tried repeatedly to correct "mistakes"

Until the devteam said, flatly. "Rokugan is not Japan." which means the differences are not them being ignorant gaijin, but describing the setting.

It's pseudo-historical the way the Hyborian Age is Pseudo-historical. Which is not at all.

It's Pocky-Flavored DnD, really.

>>4551272
Okay, I inferred "pseudo-historical" to mean it was actually somewhat historically accurate or something.

Regarding L5R and originality, of course it wasn't the first RPG to do a bunch of oriental shit and yeah, it's largely an idealized take on feudal Japan but... that's what I like about it. It's "oriental RPG setting" done RIGHT and done really well, for me.

I am a samurai show-watching feudal Japan weaboo faggot. L5R is exactly what I want, basically.

>>4551311

Alternately, it could mean that the developers didn't have time to constantly re-write everything to suit the tastes of one person during the writing process, nor spend a decade to research the culture and history of Japan to make it match better.

There is even the odd chance that the writers simply had different priorities, and that the most important thing was telling a good story, and accuracy falls by the wayside.

Hell, I heard this strange rumor that Rokugan isn't actually based on Japan at all, but is actually based on Japan's romanticized self-image as portrayed in their own literature of the period.

All of the previous prefacing were me being a facetious cock. All three of them are actually just "correct."

>>Hell, I heard this strange rumor that Rokugan isn't actually based on Japan at all, but is actually based on Japan's romanticized self-image as portrayed in their own literature of the period.

This.

Japan wasn't nearly as interesting as Rokugan. I don't want a perfectly accurate setting, but I want more than some kind of badly-researched Oriental Adventures chop-sockey.

>>4550191

You DON'T expect them to go back to the kitchen. Female samurai don't cook, that's what you have SERVANTS for.

>>4551356
No, you tell them to...

Fuck, what did aristocratic women in japan do?

>>4550913

What? Really? Tell us more!

>>4551337

facetious cock is successful

>>4551369

Write and have sex, mostly. Seriously.

>>4551369

According to most of the literature of Japan's history, they lounged about and waited to get raped while they talked about who was raping who.

The first "novel" acknowledged by most historians is the Tale of Genji, and even in the modern era he is considered heroic despite the fact that he is a blatant serial rapist that. Fun Fact: It was written by an aristocratic woman of court.

/tg/, you're doing yourself no wonders for escaping the stereotype that you're all pathetic nerds of a most virginal nature.

>>4551369
Make babies and get fought over by men. Order servants around (to do the cleaning etc.). Possibly manage finances. Play games, write poetry, go to the theatre. Raise all the children.

That's what jidaigeki have taught me, anyway.

>>4550165
Actually no it doesnt not in the context I was using it in, but oh well some people have their little games to play, sorry about my late response the wife called me to do a few chores, but yes Rokugan is a very fun setting whose Plot is somewhat lack luster but whose Background...like most systems works wonders if you can get your players agreeing to and roleplaying it to the best of their ability.

*thumbs up*

>>4551401
Funny you should mention that since two people trolling this thread are a married couple.

Can we get back to the gay?

Matriarchal Japan was awesome, Buddhist japan is not.

>>4551398
So true, and so very disturbing.

>>4551413
>married couple

The fact you bothered to post an unprovable statement about yourself to disprove the unprovable statement of another anonymous speaks volumes about your own level of personal insecurity.

>>4551415
Please tell me more, you have instigated my curiosity and I wish to understand the cultural facts that lurk within your minds recesses.

>>4551439
Unprovable? All it takes is a pic with a time stamp (which you are tempting me to do) but this is /tg/ you jackass troll. This is neckbeard land. Who the fuck gives a shit? Go bawwww about weaboos somewhere else. Try /a/.

Could we have slightly less debating feudal era Japan and slightly more lesbians?

>>4551459
Oh gods man if your going to post something as hilarious as that would you mind terribly making it female, naked or half naked and vaguely Rokugani in style.

Pretty please

>>4551473
Less /b/ more lesbians in kimonos.

Well I was close.

Actually on-topic for once, it occurs to me to suggest that Kannazuki no Miko might actually work in this setting. If you change a few details.

>>4551484
You have inspired me good sir, let me see what I can find...even if it isnt girl on girl :(

I don't know how much Rokugan is open to the whole god-slaying shenanigans.

>>4551459
Why would I bawww about weeaboos? I'm bawwwing about the fact that /tg/ has had a constant obsession with lesbians that smacks of juvenile male fantasy and nothing more. There is no genuine curiousity about the history of human culture and its acceptance of sexuality, it's just "hurr hurr, I want to fap".

Heres one of my fav, enjoy.

>>4551398
>The first "novel" acknowledged by most historians is the Tale of Genji, and even in the modern era he is considered heroic despite the fact that he is a blatant serial rapist that. Fun Fact: It was written by an aristocratic woman of court.

It's also arguable self-insertion, since after writing it, the author began to be called by the name of Genji's love interest (well, one of the MAIN ones) by her peers.

She's the one who gets carried off and raped by Genji as a little girl. Not ALL the women he sleeps with are rape cases though.

>>4551508
And another

>>4551398

Hi there, trolling treating you well? I've read Genji in the original Japanese. Stop pretending that you know what's in the text or what ancient Japanese sexuality was like, okay? There are several examples of sexually aggressive older women, sexually dominant young women and a whole lot of competitive box-blocking in order to secure exclusive sex with with the best men and have the inheriting sons. You basically know shit and should shut-up.

Also, those of this thread should google "lesbian shunga." Pic related, it is from the mid 18th century. The real question is: was sakoku era Japanese pornography any more of a legitimate depiction of sex between women than modern lesbian pornography? Probably not. Nevertheless, homoerotic behavior of both sorts has existed in every society in every time period of course.

>>4551506
Then I owe you an apology, sir. I'm not really a regular but whenever I see L5R brought up on /tg/, people usually just disregard it as being for weaboos and nothing ever really gets discussed. I thought >>4551401 was in reference to the Japanese fixation.

It turns out we were on the same track all along. I wanted to discuss culture etc.

Fuck.

>>4551514
And another

>>4551517
Man, those are the ugliest faces ever. Good to see even back then Japan couldn't draw.

>>4551506
Welcome to 4chan, you must be new here.

Actually wanted to know if anyone has a RS or anything that I could Dl Genji's Tale from, Im interested in a read of a copy that isnt tamed by stupid censors in australia.

>>4551528
>Implying that Japanese can't draw.

>>4551517

Oh PS: Genji was likely mid-teens and the girl was likely a tween in the first chapter that is getting called "rape" here.

Bitches need to shut up.

>>4547078
God, I hope so.

Plus, OP wins for making an L5R thread.

>>4551517
the trolling is treating us very well, and thank you.

also, masterwork katanas: can they neatly bisect two tanks, or just one? discuss.

>>4551540
Man did I pic a perfect time to go to bed.
INB4 shitstorm

Fucking retards, what the hell is with you /tg/?

>>4551484
SCISSOR ME TIMBERS!

>>4551553
Swords are for pussies.

I'll just leave this here...

>>4551558
The word you're looking for is tribadism.

>>4551517
WHOA THERE, BUDDY.

Of course the following is true
>>There are several examples of sexually aggressive older women, sexually dominant young women and a whole lot of competitive box-blocking in order to secure exclusive sex with with the best men and have the inheriting sons.

But that doesn't change the fact that Genji Monogatari has a lot of rape, and that rape and taking whatever woman you wanted was common.

So no one has a copy of this book they can upload or know where to download a copy from?

>>4551579
>sexually aggressive older women
>sexually dominant young women

I don't know which I prefer the sound of, a lesbian pedophile or a teenage dyke. How about both?

P.S. Shudo was here, calm the fuck down you angry dyke.

>>4551593
a teenaged lesbian dyke pedophile?

>>4551589
For fuck's sake it's "Genji Monogatari" or "Tale of Genji," it's one of the oldest novels in the world. Find it yourself.

>>4551606
Can you technically be a pedophile if you're underage yourself?

>191 posts and 32 image replies
Why do I even come here?

>>4551614
this is the internet and you are very bored.

>>4551614
Because its an amazing love hate relationship.

What the fuck, /tg/, a mature and sociological conversation on the subject of gender relations?

I'd like to point out, though, that for all the extra attention and prominence lesbians in Rokugan would gain from egalitarianism, the lack of gender segregation would also quite possibly mush the existence of homosexual culture and romanticization. So, military or dojo pederasty might not just be man-on-boy and woman-on-girl, it might be a hot MILF samurai molesting her shota students.

>>4550386
Bayushi Kachiko: Great Scorpion or Greatest Scorpion?

This thread isn't bumping anymore, is it? Should we start another?