>>4055353
Someone posted up a howto on their method of forging Forgeworld forged minis without using a forge to forge the forging process of forging.

>>4055371

yo dawg

good to know someone still plays epic.

>>4055371
Ahh, you're talking about the thread where the guy dipped his minis in latex rubber to make a mold?

Sorry, but if that's the thread you're referring to, it's an okay thread for beginners who are casting really simple minis. For complex minis like these you need two or three part molds with key cuts so the molds line up perfectly.

Also latex is crap for casting, it takes days to dry to reasonable thickness and is unable to cast metal.

I would like to know more about that pink cake in the background.

vacum degased resin + pressure cast or just low viscosity and luck? also, plese take a pic of just one model against a black background if you're too lazy to use macro mode.

>>4055436
fucking this, light model on dark background and vice versa, and please brace the camera.

>>4055371 forgeworld

Umm dude... those aren't forgeworld minis. And forgery requires it be passed off to someone else.

Forgery is the process of making, adapting, or imitating objects, statistics, or documents (see false document), with the intent to deceive.

Copies, studio replicas, and reproductions are not considered forgeries.

Nothing says you can't copy minis for your own use.

Besides, those plastic models are perfect for creating your own mods. Combining bits and pieces on a metal model mean that if you make a mistake you've fucked away money. Casting some plastic copies and modding those (which would be lots easier than metal mods) would be a cash way to create your own.

I'd just be interested to know for want of making my own models, perhaps.

Sure, it's a pain in the ass and requires a lot of hard work and detail, but if I could make a mini of my own and then duplicate it, awesome.

I am interested in this casting process since I'm starting a tank-heavy guard unit and don't want to pay for 9 lemen russes, the problem is that I want to swap out turrets for conversions. Is this feasible if one only casts the base of the tank without the turret?

Answering request for an image of one model on black background

Please forgive the lack of trimming. I simply snapped the flash off the edges by hand. So you'll see some junk on the mold lines.

To answer the question of how I did them. Super low viscosity resin (Smooth-on cast max 300 high strength super white plastic) and I have an injector system I created back when I was in college for an engineering class.

>>4055559

schematics plox

>>4055421good to know someone still plays epic.
Epic is the best game GW ever made. Too bad they never realized this and pushed it more. Armies are cheap, can be huge and are lots easier to paint.

>>4055434I would like to know more about that pink cake in the background.

Those are the two part molds to create the minis. I've not cut mold vents in most of them yet, but they work fine so far with the pressure injector I'm using.

>>4055497but if I could make a mini of my own and then duplicate it, awesome.

Okay, First things first, here's what you need to start.
1. Your model
2. Mold max 30 RTV silicon (smooth-on makes it, you can get a trial version of the 2 part compound)
3. Smooth cast 300 or the like (two part eurathane plastic)
4 legos (yes the little plastic blocks
5. modeling clay (van aken non hardening)
6. mold release spray or talcum powder
7. Clay roller
8 Xacto knives
9. paper mask (to keep the fumes from the mold release spray out of your lungs)
10. a gram accurate scale
11. small disposable cups (for mixing the mold compound) and small plastic sauce cups (for mixing the plastic)
12. wooden popsicle sticks (cheap)

>>4055559
fuck-lord!! crisp shit is crisp! /r/ injector schematics or at least a good array of photos

>>4055745
Okay, now what do you do?

First you arrange your pieces and key pieces (more on that in a second) on the table so you know how big your mold frame will need to be.

The mold frame are the walls and bottom that hold the mold material in place while it sets.

Once you know how big your frame needs to be (make sure there's plenty of room around each piece of the model) Start assembling the frame (it should be 3 legos in height at least)

Now, key pieces... what are they? They are keys and slots that force your mold pieces to slot together perfectly. (see attached picture)

Now, before you think we're ready to pour... think again.

Now you put a good thick layer of modeling clay in the base of the frame and use the clay roller to roll it flat (kneed the clay well till it's nice and soft and warm then put int in a little bit at a time making sure the clay is smooth and there are no gaps in the base.

Once you've got a nice smooth flat layer of clay, use your knives to cut out the spots for the key pieces and put in the key pieces.

Then carefully press your model pieces into the clay till they are well embedded with no gaps under them

>>4055840

Once the pieces are firmly embedded gently smooth the clay again. The key pieces should stick up one half to one lego in height.

DO NOT put mold release on anything at this point.

You are now ready to create the first half of the mold.

Mix the mold max material on the gram accurate scale. I cannot stress how important the scale is. This is a 10:1 material 10 parts silicon goo to 1 part reagent. If you fuck this up you will end up with a huge mess.

Mix the material for a good 2 to 3 minutes of solid stirring with a wooden popsicle stick till it's a solid pink. Again, I cannot stress how important it is to mix this well. If you don't mix it well it will be a huge mess.

Now, brush the exposed minis tops with the mold compound (use a brush you don't care too much about) and make sure there are no bubbles.
Be sure you brush the model carefully and thoroughly and use a needle to pop any bubbles you can.

Pour in the remainder of your mix for the top mold and let set for 16-24 hours.

Thing is, you'll mess up your first few molds... don't feel bad if you do. They make AWESOME filler material. Cut these molds up into strips, wash them, dry them, and put some of them into the mold as filler material and you'll end up with stronger molds. This is also an industry standard thing to do. Just don't go beyond 40:60 ratio by volume. 60 percent being the fresh compound.

After 16 hours or so the silicon will be firm and ready to demold for part II

>>4055956
now to make part II of the mold

disassemble the lego frame and flip over the mold to expose the modeling clay on the bottom.

Gently remove the modeling clay being careful not to demold the model pieces.
Keeping the pieces in the mold will prevent the next round of silicon molding from sneaking under the model pieces and ruining the mold.

carefully clean the model of clay, using red or blue or other bright colored clay that contrasts with the mini is good because then it's easy to spot left over clay in the cracks.

Use a needle probe to lever out the soft clay that will have sneaked into cracks.

Once the models are clean, lightly coat the model and the WHOLE top mold with talc or silicon mold release (I prefer the mold release) and rebuild the mold frame around the mold (no key pieces here... you'll have the negatives in the top mold, you're now ready to create the positives as part of the bottom mold.

Rub the surface of the mold and minis to lightly spread the mold release and prevent droplets or talc build up (note, do not combine talc and silicon, it's either or.... not and)

Mix up more mold max, again brush on the first coat... and then pour the rest. Let sit for 16-24 hours and demold.

You now have something like this.

Note the raised and recessed lego shapes... those are the keys. They fit together so that the mold is held in place.

>>4056114
Now, with your two nifty new mold pieces, you need to get your casting material into the molds. How to do this cheaply is a neat trick.

Now, I cannot give out my design for my injector (I'm patenting it) but I'll give you a good alternative.

First... spray or apply your mold release to both mold halves. Rub the release on the inside of the molds to ensure even distribution and prevent sticking.
Now... decide if you want to go cheap or good.

You know those Vacuum sealer machines (for food), you'll need one of those if you want perfect models every time... if you're willing to chance a few bubbles then you can use the cheap method.

Cheap method. Good for beginners or those who aren't afraid to try their luck. Sometimes you'll get shitty models... but with as cheap as this is, ehhnn it's fun.

Get smoothcast 300 superwhite eur-plastic, use the gram scale and measure out equal amounts (only about 5 grams each is needed for one Eldar super heavy tank with lots of overflow... 4 grams each if you're stingy.

Mix the materials together in a cup with a wooden popsicle stick till well mixed then pour equal amounts quickly into each part of the mold. Press out bubbles (you'll see them since this stuff is clear as water and about as thick as oil) with the popsicle stick (they're handy) and wait till the stuff starts to bloom a white cloud in the liquid. The stuff is still liquid, but is lots thicker now.

Press the mold pieces together, slotting them together and use a piece of heavy plastic card to evenly distribute the force (have a lego base plate (one of those big green ones) under the bottom mold so that the mold edges don't bow the mold) and stack a book or two on top of the mold sandwich... demold in 10-15 minutes and you'll have your model in clean white plastic.

Though it will need trimming. (see attached small pic from another site that shows similar techniques.)

>>4056296
hisrstarts lol.

come on dude. at lest give us a few guidelines on HOW do you managed to inject the mixed resin without clogging your nozzles and fucking up your ram/screw. are they made out of silicon and you just pop out the plugs once they set? follow each injection whit a solvent bath? did you find out a way to mix both parts OUTSIDE of the injector but INSIDE the mould?

>>4056296

For the vacuum option, use a version of smooth cast with longer set time first off.

Create an "flow entry point" or points for the plastic, and cut flow lines for the fluid to flow through (From top to bottom) and put cardstock on the top and bottom molds and rubber band them together.
Put the mold into a vacuum sealer bag, and start degassing the bag.
Once a good vacuum is in place, you'll be injecting the mold plastic.

Use a metal marinade injector with a wide bore needle. With the vacuum still in placeuse the injector to force pump the still waterlike resin into the mold entrance, the vacuum will suck the fluid along the mold lines and the extra pressure will usually pop any bubbles or force them to the top in the injector cavity.

There ya go. Now, just wait till the required set time, and demold...
The benefit of the vacuum option is that you can do more complex models and usually have less flash on the edges.

But with the cheap method you can crank out dozens of minis (sure you waste more plastic, but it's cheap)

>>4056349
Warning... do not mix large quantities of the moldmax 300 thinking you're going to make lots of minis at once. The more you mix, the hotter the stuff gets (chemical reaction) and the faster it gels and sets up. More quantity=more heat=faster set time=less time to pour and get all the bubbles out.

So just go slow and steady, one or two big minis at a whack.

Also, if you MUST make bigger molds for lots of minis... use a stiffer mold material Say mold max 40 or the like.

Other casting material include plaster, white metal, dental mold plastic (awesome stuff... tougher than hell), clear eu-plastics (for your Tau Stealth suit minis.... imagine casting your tau squad in clear plastic and swapping them out for your minis when they go invisible), and colored (pigmented) plastics and resins. (you can mix in metallic or colored pigments into your plastic) Other plastics also contain minerals and the like.

The thing here about the mold material I use, it's RTV silicon. Which means it'll take up to 800 F... well above white metal's melting point. Meaning if you have a kiln, you can smelt white metal and pour it into these molds and produce perfect copies of the original in the right metal. But I prefer plastic. It's cheaper, less dangerous, and can be sculpted easier.

Any questions?

>>4056353
yeah, tell us of your magical resin injector. least I heard resin ad to be "always hand poured, all the time", one of the factors inflating the costs of retail resins, the others being compensation for miscasts and the "mistique of resin detail". injection would open the gate to automated resin casting, and thus to reduced prices for the buyer.

>>4056343
at lest give us a few guidelines on HOW do you managed to inject the mixed resin without clogging your nozzles and fucking up your ram/screw. are they made out of silicon and you just pop out the plugs once they set? follow each injection whit a solvent bath? did you find out a way to mix both parts OUTSIDE of the injector but INSIDE the mould?

Heh... Okay, I made the seals and o-rings out of the same silicon I use in the molds (hence why it doesn't stick. The silicon (being RTV) is impervious to solvents that readily desolve or soften resin.

The ram is stainless steel and thus the plastic cannot stick to it.

The needle for the injector is likewise stainless, but is tapered internally (wide at base, narrow at tip)

I usually mix externally with a longer set time compound, and once I've injected the plastic I simply remove the ram, wipe it, and pour in 10 ml of solvent and flush the system to a basin.

The silicon seals and o-rings aren't affected by the solvent but the still liquid resin is washed out.

If there's any missed buildup, the needle is screwed onto the ram's body (it's built off an old cattle vaccine injector with a metal body)so unscrewing it is easy (since there's an oring preventing the resin from getting in the threads) and I just pull the plastic out of the needle (since it's tapered it comes out in a long cone)

Does that answer your questions?

The one II'm working on though uses two basins and mixes the two agents via an old air brush internal mix mechanism and feeds that to the ram reservoir. Can't mix better than an airbrush does. Just gotta figure out how to pressurize it for a cleaning cycle.

But the thing is to use a longer set time resin with low viscosity.

I take it you can use the same method on normal 40k minis?

Could you cast entire sprues with this?

>>4056483
on anyting, make minis, terrain, bases, dice, counters, larp prostethics, cosplay jewlery and imagery, non-geeky stuff too, etc...

>>4056420
And this is why I'm working on patenting it and NOT giving extensive details on the mechanism.

Resin pours do need some hand work.. IF you are cranking them out and need fast mold cycling.

If you need to keep reusing the same mold again and again without long wait periods you MUST use fast setting resin and must hand pour them.

If you don't care about set times... then you use slow cure resins that don't have TIME to set up in your equipment.

* Smooth-Cast® 300Q - 4-5 minute demold time
* Smooth-Cast® 300 - 10 minute demold time
* Smooth-Cast® 305 - 30 minute demold time
* Smooth-Cast® 310 - 2-4 hour demold time

See the demold times? If you only have a few molds you use fast demold compounds... compounds that will fuck up your machines if you let them set up.

So you use slower set time compounds, which give the solvents plenty of opportunity to wash out the compounds.

I'm looking at a multi cycle design. A prep cycle for fast set compounds that wash out any solvent.. followed by a work cycle, mixing the resin, then a wash cycle that uses high pressure air/solvent mix to clean the mix heads like you clean an air brush.

Where would one find the supplies for this? Hardware store or something more specialized?

ARCHIVE THIS, SOMEBODY!

>>4056483
>>4056539
Yes, you can use this to make nearly anything that requires molds.

If you modify my instructions (the mods should be obvious) you can create multipart molds (3, 4 or more part) that can create very complex shapes.

The only limits are moldable materials.

As to doing whole sprues... yes. Though I recommend small molds. They're easier to work with.

Also, the molds that large plastic sprues are done in are usually stainless steel. This is soft silicon. Those are done with high pressure injection molding, not the vacuum degassing and injector method I use.

Sprues are not what I'd recommend for this sort of stuff.

Though you could turn out a fuckton of Eldar Wrathguard by just making a mold of the three common models in one mold and cranking them out. via the cheap method.

>>4056503

If you are using expensive specialist resin to cast the sprue instead of (or in addition to) the parts, you are an idiot.

>>4056550
Get the smoothon stuff from their website. Smooth-on + google I've recommended the specific stuff here. But there's others out there. Google is your friend. Just search for Silicon RTV mold and 2 part casting plastic.

Get the Legos at your local mall. Toystore people. Engineers have always loved legos, lincoln logs, and erector sets for a reason. The are the building blocks of technology.

Get the mixing cups and stuff at your local arts supply store. 500 popsicle sticks for 3 bux
Paper cups at the grocery store.

Mold release... silicon lube stray... auto parts store.

talc... grocery store.

Hope that helps.

>>4056579
Done
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/4055353/

>>4056668If you are using expensive specialist resin to cast the sprue instead of (or in addition to) the parts, you are an idiot.

Dude, 81 bux for the pictured quantity,

Do you have any idea how many minis you could make from that? Thousands. Easy.
it's about 15 pounds of light plastic.
It's not THAT expensive.

It's wasteful though... the sprue lines and such are pure waste.

So yeah you are throwing some cash away... but still.

any more questions?

>>4056748
Would it be viable to cast a cadian shocktroop, for example, as the 6 seperate parts, or should it be done as a single whole, or in 3 parts (torso, legs, and head + 2 detached arms)? Given the tiny tiny size of Cadian heads and grenades and the like.

1. Is this cheaper than the other resin method (by Scriptarius, IIRC), and how do the quality levels of both compare to "real", officially purchased models?

2. About what total value of minis would you have to duplicate in order to cancel out the cost of molds/resin/time investment?

>>4056823Would it be viable to cast a cadian shocktroop, for example, as the 6 seperate parts, or should it be done as a single whole, or in 3 parts (torso, legs, and head + 2 detached arms)? Given the tiny tiny size of Cadian heads and grenades and the like.

Hmmm... It's best to cast it as the 6 separate parts IMO. But you could very easily do this with a small mold.

Cut then off the sprue... but here's the thing... do so by cutting up the sprue and simply removing most of the sprue but leaving some attached to the pieces. That way you lose none of the detail

Also, as to detail... dude, I'm casting Epic Eldar minis... 6mm scale and get scary sharp quality.

Epic scale minis are tiny little things and I'm getting razor sharp detail. So your minis should be fine. Just remember this... TRIM and clean your mini's mold lines. Leave some flash for the resin to flow.., but it's just there to vent so you don't get bubbles.

Low viscosity eruathane plastics flow like water and gel up hard (3100 psi shear)

so you should get all the detail you might want. Just don't expect a perfect first mold. There's a little learning curve.

Hope that helped.


Oh yeah... and the Scale... Spend a little and get a nice AND scale I've an HL-4000 4 kg scale with digital accuracy of 1 gram.
Don't buy a cheap food scale. They're usually shit. If you can get a 0.1gram scale even better. You can more carefully monitor your measurements. Always good to do .

>>4056544
then again, you could have several copies of the same production mould and cycle them. say I, being a tiny ass small independent figure maker have 5 poses of rank-n-file grunts of faction A , 3 parts each(legs-integral base, back-head-one arm and chest-other arm), if it takes the resin > 5 minutes before it gels and the injection cycle is > thhan a minute I can make all the moulds of a part, let that one sit while I clean up and mix the next batch, and once I make it to the last batch the first cast will be ready for de-moulding and after a quick application of release will be used again.

>>4056904
1. Is this cheaper than the other resin method (by Scriptarius, IIRC), and how do the quality levels of both compare to "real", officially purchased models?

Hmmm... do you have the link to that? I'd need to review his method.
As to quality levels. I'd say that they compare very favorably to offical models. Near perfect really. But that is a matter of craftsmanship. If you take your time, clean your original, and do the prepwork... well.. you see the detail on that Storm Serpent above. And that's the 6mm itty bitty mini.

2. About what total value of minis would you have to duplicate in order to cancel out the cost of molds/resin/time investment?

Well... given that each of those epic minis are about 15-18 dollars each. So... three or four minis and you're in full recoup territory. (Trial size for the mold max and smooth cast are about $24.95 and 24.72 respectively) The trial size mold max will crank out about 3 good size molds (enough total for say 20-25 28 mm mansized figures) and the smooth cast trail pack will produce a couple hundred minis I'm sure.

So given GW costs... you're in complete recoup territory really fast.

>>4056938
Pretty much, yeah. But clearly this isn't what GW does.

Besides, their resin, frankly, sucks. I use ultra white Urethane plastic that's nice and strong and stiff.

Those jackasses use resin (not erethane) and demold way too fucking soon. All their resin casts that I've encountered all have to be heated and reshaped because the fuckers can't wait for it to harden enough to be rigid. No... they take it out while it's still soft and shit ends up bent all to hell and deformed.

If they'd use a good properly engineered plastic tailored to their application then people wouldn't be needing to soften the resin and reshape it to the correct dimensions.

>>4057033
forge world figures are good for, once bent back to shape a throughoutlly cleaned of that clingy oil-based release they insist on using, being used as masters out of wich proper urethane figures can be made.

Here's a better image to show you detail and scale since there's been a few questions about level of quality.

Look at the detail on the shuriken cannon on the turret top. and compare to the size of the dime and the grain of the plastic... It replicates right down to the matte grain of the metal surface otherwise the plastic would be glossy and perfectly smooth.

So yeah... detail... nearly perfect.

>>4057062being used as masters out of wich proper urethane figures can be made.

Even so. Sheesh... their profit margins must be obscene.

>>4057099
under ideal humidity/temperature conditions, properly degassed and pressure cast urethane is known to replicate detail as small a 2 nanometres. that's 2 millionths of a millimetre, small enough to replicate the contour of individual cells.

Oh yeah, there's one more thing you can do with your urethane figures.

While you're casting them, you can embed magnets in them so that pieces stick together. Great for epic minis like tanks (get the turrents to stick to the bodies so the turrets still can be turned and don't have to be glued )

>>4057133
maybe not so much, they're not part of citadel so they have to pay ridiculously huge licenses. that and wow many people can afford it? a company still generates costs even if it's not selling shit, and knowing GW they probably have 3x the people they need.

Hey, OP, do you know how much money you just saved me?

Like, seriously?

Because I'll tell you, Grey Knights are fucking expensive...

>>4057143 2nm

Well, I didn't notice it at the time of the picture but if you check you'll see a hair on the mini. (It's near the cockpit) I've very fine hair and as you can see some of the details are nearly as fine as the hair.

>>4057187Hey, OP, do you know how much money you just saved me? Like, seriously?

<--Pic It's the money you could have been saving casting your own.

Feel free to send me some minis as a thank you if you want... heh.

>>4057187

Open question: OK, you just made your Grey Knights. But now you want to repose/convert/etc with them. Is this easier (or even feasible) than with the original Metal GKs?

Okay,

Final comment before I'm leaving for the night.

On the modeling clay.

Do NOT use any sort of bakeable clay or air hardening clay. They have fibers , they crack, and they leave behind residue on the minis that fuck up your molds.

Use the type I recommend. Van Aken is exactly the right stuff.

Also, do NOT try to use silly putty in place of modeling clay. It's a silicon based material and will be adversely affected by the mold max material and reagent. It will turn it basically into soup and make a huge fucking mess while also fucking up your mold (speaking from experience here)

I love to experiment and fiddle around with mix ratios and adding chemicals and such to the compounds. So I've learned a few things. If you need a tip, feel free to ask me, I'll do what I can to help you.

Also, Could this method be used to do BFG stuff?

pic the back sails in this Eldar Corsair ship, one is the original and other is a recast.

>>4057256Open question: OK, you just made your Grey Knights. But now you want to repose/convert/etc with them. Is this easier (or even feasible) than with the original Metal GKs?

Absolutely! The plastic is hard, but much softer than metal. use xacto knives to cut it up, then use epoxy to glue it (or CA glue) do not expect normal thin model glue to work though. This is a themroplastic monomer and that means that acetone will not act as a softener or solvent.
But since it is plastic it'll be lots easier to sculpt and will bond with green stuff and grey stuff just fine.

>>4057305Also, Could this method be used to do BFG stuff?

Yes, this method will work to produce anything. I've used it myself for things.

You could even use the properties of flash film (the thin translucent plastic films that can be seen in that pic I pulled from Hirstart) to replace the funky hexagon pattern in the wings with what looks more like sails.

Mods people... you can mod the hell out of these minis... I'd just make my master copy, then make the first copy, cut those sections out, make new molds for just the wings... and start cranking out a mod set... real solar sails.

>>4057385

Awesome.

This thread makes me happy.

Save this image for future reposting...

­

>>4057501
glad you liked it.

Well, I'm tired.. gnight all.

If you've any further questions I'll check back in the AM and see if I can answer them then.

>>4055956
>one lego in height

Legos: Official Measurement of /tg/.

Oh my god I am so hard right now.

OP, you may just have single-handedly revived BFG in my city.