>homemade

This is intriging for me. Are there any map creation programs that /tg/ would recommend?

AutoREALM

>>4048108

Here's a good basic tips:

Learn about cartographic projections. Then, start drawing all your maps first in the equirectangular projection, which is the base-map used by many map projection softwares ( NASA's G-projector (try to find an old version, 1.2 has a bad bug where you can't adjust the maps at all, Flex-project, Google Earth if you want to check it out on a globe). Learn about tectonics and shit, too, but don't go too deep, no one really, really cares if it looks cool enough. Draw the map on paper, or do it in a raster editor, whatever you want. A good tip here is also to avoid doing any details at this stage, and use layers: if you convert a ready-made map from one projection to another, it'll look like ass. You should probably have one black-and-white-layer for all land, and one layer for basic elevation, maybe rivers and shit. Don't bother learning about climates, because climatologists are assholes and trying to figure out the climates for your map will just clhoth'tagn uäng thongklilh F'pehnlagh flothoth flothoth ïe r'bar wlicth lhalh! Iä! Iä!

>>4048300

I'll stick with village, village, forest, city, mountains, village, and "Here be Dragons" around everything else.

>>4048108

Easy to do good stuff if you follow the processes.

First, draw tectonic plates however the fuck you want, and keep in mind which way they move with big fuck-off arrows. Do the arrows and faultlines in pencil.

Then, continents. Bang that shit down wherever you want, the big ones don't matter. Continental outlines in pencil for now.

Look at where the bits of continent touch fault lines. Bits ramming face-first will have huge fuck-off mountains. Bits pulling apart will have fucktonnes of lava, or at the least bits of hot earthen interest like volcanoes. Bits rubbing sideways will have smaller mountains, a handful of volcanoes, and tectonic activity like a motherfucker.

Where these lines are in the ocean, similar. Face-on, big mountains, archipelagos and such. Apart, huge-arse trenches and volcanic islands. Across, a few volcanic islands.

Then consider your continental movement. Where plates move together bits rammed each other a long time ago, so make the continents look a little awkward. Where they pull apart there'll be continental drift, so make it look like an eroded puzzle piece pulled off and stick a heap of islands in the middle.

From there, change the pencilled bits to look more aesthetically pleasing and utilitarian, then pen them on.

Now for climates and shit.

The middle of the map is going to be hot and wet and have monsoonal rain. The edges of the map will be colder and possibly drier and have more regular rain.

Now figure out how wet things are. Pick a direction for the wind to generally blow from the water to the land in each continent, or more than one if that's how you want it. Watch it go all the way to the nearest lot of mountains. Bits oceanward of the mountains get regular rain. Bits oceanward of mountains and on the edge of the mountains get lots of rain. Bits inland of the mountains get little rain. The bigger the mountains the more significant this is, so if you've got molehills it won't do a damn, but if you've got the Andes just sitting there one side will be lush and the other a damned desert. Also, the further inland you are, even if there's no mountains, the drier it gets.

Once you've got this down, put your general greenery in place. Wetter in no-equatorial areasmeans more dense forestry e.g. English woods. A little dry means less dense e.g. Australian bush. Proper dry means african-style scrub plains all over the joint. Very dry means desert. DO NOT USE ENGLISH PLAINS AS AN EXAMPLE THEY ARE HUMAN-MADE.

Then, for equatorial areas, wet means ridiculously rainforests, drier means jungley areas, properly dry means flat but with still more trees and superdry means scrub deserts.

Once you've got these down change them for aesthetics and utility then bang them in in pen.

Keep in mind not to mention this to proper geographers or climatologists since this is simplified to the point of being offensive.

>>4048397

OH GOD ICTZ

>>4048356
>>4048397
I sure would love to know how many fantasy authors follow this route.

Paolini certainly did. His maps are work of art.

Now for hydrology and that wet crap.

Rivers go from mountains to the ocean. That's it. The more rain on your mountain, I.E. the closer to the coast and the higher the mountain, the bigger the river will be. It shoudl have tributaries from that mountain and other mountains on the path flowing into the main river, which meanders however you want it to but generally away from high ground to low, to the ocean, where just before the ocean if it's really big it forms a delta. Bits along that river can have canyons and such for geographical points of interest. Bang lakes and shit of whatever size you want down on the way, so long as you don't have the Comically Tiny River as the main source of water for Lake Fucking Huge. If the river doesn't make it all the way to the ocean because it's too far or it goes inland into the deepest part of the place without escape, it forms either a big salt lake, and the lake will be properly salty, or a marsh, depending on your climate or more realistically your preference. If shit's really dry, you can have huge river paths and vast salt lakes with no or nearly no water for interest.

This thread needs to be archived. I'm getting some serious advice for my maps.

>>4048433
>>4048397
>>4048356

Really helpful stuff, thanks. Copying it all to a txt for future reference.

A quick link to the Climate Cookbook, which has put me into despairing tears several times now.

http://www.compulink.co.uk/~morven/worldkit/climate.html

i hate climates i really do

>>4048449
If that gets any more complicated than what Evilsatan just described, I'm not going to click the link at all, instead remaining happily in my little sea of blissful ignorance.

Now, your civilisations.

Work out your capitals first, because most historic civilisations were based on one capital with a fuckton of small towns around it.

Civilisations are based on people in groups. Groups of people like nice things. Nice things like resources. Critical resources include:

Water. Bitches love water. You will never ever see a city without water. Most or all of your major cities should be on major water sources that are NOT the ocean which is BAD because unlike river or lake water which is DELICIOUS seawater is NOT DELICIOUS. You can have non-riverine towns supplied by wells, but because water's so critical in the 'make town/don't' civilisational paradigm, it'd better have shitloads of good stuff like ten trading routes over a goldmine or something.

Food. You need at least two supplies of food, preferably more. Food from water comes from fishing. Get food from forests and shit by hunting. Get food from anywhere with rain by farming, which if you do will lead to flat farmed plains fucking everywhere.

Good stuff includes:

Good forests, because timber makes good things like houses. Timber comes from forests.

Good quarries, because stone makes very nice houses for rich people. Quarries will be in mountains.

Good mining, because gold fucking rocks and so does iron once you can smelt that motherfucker. Mining, for the most simple example possible, comes from mountains.

Once you've stuck your major cities where the most of these combine, stick towns in the next best areas and villages in the next. Remember your rule of travel. Farmers, which is practically everybody in preindustrialised times, have to cart their shit places. There will be a village, formed around a market, at most twelve hours from any one point of the populatyed part of your territory. There will be towns every three days' travel, for major trading excursions. Cities will be rare and only where there's a fuckload of useful shit. Keep in mind it's okay to have national areas that have no villages in them, because no nation ever uses al the ground because some of it just isn't that useful.

And now, TRADING. Trading fucking rocks for civilisations. Remember those towns and cities and shit? Trace paths from all your towns to their main cities. This will be where villages are often located since trade rocks. Trace paths from all your major cities to each other, put lots of towns on them. Make the apths wander if you have to, because people woudl rather spend an extra day or two travelling to know they've got a safe night's rest as often as possible. Whenever there is a city to city path on a national border, put a small trading town there. Whenever three or more city to city paths go near each other make them converge and put a city there, a trading city. More paths, bigger city. A 4/5-plus-path trading city will rival your capitals, and depending on what you want plotwise, will be a capital itself.

Tell me Baron, would it be even remotely possible to base an entire large city straight on top of a big bridge between two continents?

I mean I was thinking about those trade routes. This particular channel is straight in the middle of important trade routes between three powerful empires. In addition, it's the only available route for ships to go through, unless they want to circle an entire continent and travel a few months more. It's a big crossing of trade and travel routes, that just happens to have mostly water there.

Because I do like the idea. Possible?

And now for the moment you've all been waiting for, the civilisations themselves.

Except not. I'm not going to get into the gepgraphical and sociological shit behind culture because holy fucking shit is it complex. If I were to take the most basic shit there is in the most simple language I could it'd take at least ten posts to get done and because I'm a geographel and sociologist I have no self control over these matters and would probably write a fucking thesis by accident which happened before.

Just remember three things when designing a culture. Their culture will be influenced by, above all else;

ECONOMICS - The resources available and even more significantly unavailable will have a huge effect on the path and the speed of cultural development. DON'T FORGET TRADE GOODS AND SHIT HERE.

GEOGRAPHY - The physical home of a people will be fucking crucial in determining what their nature is, and how they develop, especially technologically. It's probably the most important technological influence on people until they learn to change the geography itself. Climate, too, is critical gere.

HISTORY - the history of the people is fucking massive in determining what they are, and is an area in which you have more freedom than the others. Just remember that when making history the neighbouring civilisations are fucking crucial.

And when doing all this shit, just think THESE PEOPLE ARE LIKE 'X' BECAUSE OF HISTORIC/ECONOMIC/GEOGRAPHIC INFLUENCE 'Y', and see if it makes sense or not.

And remember, when you're making a map this loosely, you can pretty much change anything you want to make a place more aesthetic or utilitarian so long as it doesn't make it fucking retarded. Need a lake with no river tributaries? Huge underground river comes up there. Need one mountain by itself? Volcano, now extinct. Need a people nowhere near useful resources? They settled there for social or cultural reasons, like religion, and the hard living has made them backwards but tough as all fuck off.

Study some geography and sociology, learn the shit behind environmental and civilisational development, and this shit will take off with no user input. If you gave me right now a piece of paper with rough tectonics outlined and some continents, using just the real-world theory, I could turn that into a realistic place without ever having to stop and think because every single factor in this development is nearly completely determined by the factors before it, all the way back to the only independent things, the continets and the tectonics. It makes it ridiculously easy and damned fast to come up with planet-scale maps that make sense.

Here's something I cooked up.

IMPORTANT SHIT I SKIPPED

NAUTICAL TRADE ROUTES

This I ignored because HOLY FUCK IS IT COMPLEX. You have to determine the atmospheric climactic variations determining heatflows from planetary convection currents to find out the paths aquatic currents make which plus climate and prevailing winds and climate and the sociology and the technology and the economics will determine which direction boats go what where they stop. Just do whatever you want with these because the sort of person who will understand enough to see that your idea is stupid and understand easy enough to get angry is rare as fuck. I know all the shit, it's in my field, and it still gives me massive fucking headaches. Just make that shit up and follow common sense.

INDIVIDUAL UNIVERSE VARIATIONS

The things I've told you are based off our planet and its inherent shit, which is a fair base for anything you'll do because in any fantasy world you can assume that unless it is specifically mentined otherwise things work like they do here. IF THEY DO, you have to figure that shit out for yourself because the imagination has infinite variation and I don't have infinite space or time to get specific. Figure it out, use common sense, and if I'm on 4chan at the time you can ask me for the civilisational and sociological impacts of dragons existing and being ten kilometres long. Or if you're near a university, take it up with a professor of human geography or sociology because they fucking love this complex shit so long as you don't make it too obvious it's for a game.

>>4048521

Constaninople. Ever heard of it?

I declare von Evilsatan my most favouritest /tg/ poster for today.

>>4048623
I have now. *Studies*

>>4048521

A huge city on a land bridge between massive powers is exactly what should happen if it's the only trade route. If such a city has existed for a while it will probably be its own state because of the economic power it wields. They're also good for political games because if they do become militarily threateneed they have to figure out if they'll go it alone against a superior foe or ask the other major nation for help but probably end up becoming a vassal state anyway but at least doing it by choice and with better conditions.

If on a physical, made-by-people, bridge, you'd better have a fuckign fantastic explanation as to how the fuck a bridge got so big as to support a city and why the fuck hasn't the incredible technology to build that been replicated. That's not being sarcastic, those are real questions and if you have good answers then your bridge is probably just fine.

>>4048521

It likely wouldn't be a bridge. It would be two port cities on either side of the channel. Merchants would ship goods to one city and either sell it to someone who would ship it over the channel, or else commission someone to ferry it over, and then sell it to another merchant on the other side, who would then take it wherever it was going to go.

>>4048651
>If on a physical, made-by-people, bridge, you'd better have a fuckign fantastic explanation as to how the fuck a bridge got so big as to support a city and why the fuck hasn't the incredible technology to build that been replicated. That's not being sarcastic, those are real questions and if you have good answers then your bridge is probably just fine.

You know how many fantasy settings used to have a time when people were much more advanced, and then some shit like nuclear war came up and wrecked everything back to the middle ages? Well, my setting did have one of those a couple thousand years ago. So if the bridge is too big to be built by conventional means, then it could just be pretty fucking old and advanced, and people can't just make sense of it.

But exactly how big is too big?

>>4048651
>>If on a physical, made-by-people, bridge, you'd better have a fuckign fantastic explanation as to how the fuck a bridge got so big as to support a city and why the fuck hasn't the incredible technology to build that been replicated. That's not being sarcastic, those are real questions and if you have good answers then your bridge is probably just fine.
City is on an island in the middle of the channel/waterway. Bridge was built from either shore to the island because it was easier than building one all the way across the channel. Problem solved.
Plus, bonus: As the bridge now blocks the whole waterway the city gets bonus traffic from ships having to unload on one side of the island to ship goods across it to continue along the waterway.

>>4048756
Hmm. Modern bridges wouldn't last more than 100 years without being fixed up now and again. I'd go for futurama-level tech and make it as big as you want.

>>4048785
It could be a minor GRIMDARK situation, where people would try to desperately fix what they can, but at the same time the very founding pillars of their city are crumbling. One day they'd just snap and that'd be the end of the city.

>A huge city on a land bridge between massive powers is exactly what should happen if it's the only trade route. If such a city has existed for a while it will probably be its own state because of the economic power it wields. They're also good for political games because if they do become militarily threateneed they have to figure out if they'll go it alone against a superior foe or ask the other major nation for help but probably end up becoming a vassal state anyway but at least doing it by choice and with better conditions.

IN SPACE

Man, this thread is depressing. My DM is great at giving us intricate plots, compelling NPCs, and exciting encounters, but his world maps are complete ass.

Deserts next to forests next to jungles with random lakes and rivers and mountains all over the fucking place with no rhyme or reason to it. I try to ignore it, but then I read something like this and just want to cry.

>>4049245
Hah, patchwork geography...

saving topic to text, somebody please archive this too

What if you want some fucked up cosmology and shit.
Like vast landmasses floating thousands of miles above spheres of saltwater which is brought up by vortexes, causing vast inland saltwater lakes?
With the sun and moon revolving around that?
And the stars being reflections of lost souls?

>>4049366
Then the laws of our world don't apply, and you may safely just ignore everything ever said in this thread.

Somebody archive this shit. It's too good of information to let go.

>city straight on top of a big bridge between two continents
>Constantinople

BYZANTINE TREACHERY AND INTRIGUE IN BYZANTIUM.

YOU MUST PLAY THIS

>>4049435
Y'know I never thought of basing the particular city on Constantinopole, but I think I'll do that now.

Before the beginning of the siege, Mehmed II made an offer to Constantine XI. In exchange for the surrender of Constantinople, the emperor's life would be spared and he would continue to rule in Mistra. Constantine refused this offer.

Instead he led the defence of the city and took an active part in the fighting along the land walls. At the same time, he used his diplomatic skills to maintain the necessary unity between the Genovese, Venetian, and Greek troops.

As city fell on May 29, 1453, Constantine is said to have remarked: "The city is fallen but I am alive". Realising that the end had come, the last Roman emperor reportedly discarded his purple cloak and led his remaining soldiers into a last charge where he was killed.

A legend tells that when the Ottomans entered the city, an angel rescued the emperor, turned him into marble and placed him in a cave under the earth near the Golden Gate, where he waits to be brought to life again

>in a cave under the earth near the Golden Gate, where he waits to be brought to life again

FUCK YOU GW, EVEN THE EMPRAH'S A RIP-OFF?!

IT'S GOT TWO HEADED EAGLES AND EVERYTHING

>>4049587

the two headed eagle was the symbol of the holy roman empire, upon which the GW EMPIRE/IMPERIUM is blatantly based, as well as the byzantine empire, upon which the weird, wise and alien elves/eldar are based. the byzantine empire was the remnant of the eastern roman empire, and possessed the sum of its knowledge and heritage. you can imagine how weird and wise these people seemed to the glorified farmhands who ruled post-roman western europe.

Hey guys, look at this:
http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog

Absolutely invaluable if you care about realism. Tells you how much population areas have, how many towns/cities, how many people in those towns/cities, etc.

>>4049557

>>4049803

Apparently, he's a saint in the Orthodox Church and a Greek national hero too.

On the topic of worldbuilding, I'm going to write a story set in a steampunkish world, where sea travel is mostly impossible so intercontinental trade is done via airships.
The problem with airships is that a single missile would down one easily. Can anyone think of a good reason why this wouldn't happen?
If not, I'm just gonna have to go with unobtanium hulls.

>>4049557

Wait, the EMPRAH was born in Anatolia, right? That's part of the Byzantine Empire.

The last Byzantine emperor is rumored to be asleep and waiting for the right time to return.

>Many Greeks fled the city and migrated to other parts of Europe, in particular Italy. This move is thought to have helped fuel the Renaissance. The Fall of Constantinople is seen by some scholars as being a key event in leading to the end of the Middle Ages.

Did the Emprah JUST AS PLANNED the fall of Eastern Roman Empire to jump start the Renaissance?

>>4049846
It'd be a delicious Irony if he caused the Byzantine Emperor to be interred under the Golden Gate, only to himself be interred in the Golden Throne millenia later.

>>4049557
>>4049803
From wiki:
The next day the final battle was conducted. The castle of Szigetvár was burnt down to ruined walls by mining and burning huge heaps of woods put around it at all corners. In the morning, September the 7th, the all-out attack by the Turks began: fireballs, "Greek fire", concentrated cannonade, fusillade. Soon, the last Croat-Hungarian stronghold within Szigetvár was set ablaze. The entire Turkish army swarmed against the Old City, drumming and yelling, "..their flags darkening the skies.[cite this quote]" Reportedly, Zrinski prepared for the last charge, addressing his brothers-in-arms:

"..Let us go out from this burning place into the open and stand up to our enemies. Who dies - he will be with God. Who dies not - his name will be honoured. I will go first, and what I do, you do. And God is my witness - I will never leave you, my brothers and knights![cite this quote]"

The defender Zrinski wearing a silk robe, carrying a hanging golden key on his breast and wearing a hat with a crane aigrette, started an exit in force from the castle at the head of 600 of his troops. He was heavily wounded at his chest and his head by Ottoman bullets[8] . Thus, at the end, the heroic obstinate commander, who survived a siege lasting 36 days, his dead body was beheaded by a sword lying on an Ottoman cannon [9]. The Turks took the fort and effectively won the battle. Only seven defenders managed to get through Turkish lines.

>>4049872

That's not my Emperor!

>>4049911
You realize that's a different person and not the Byzantine emperor, correct?

>>4049911
no, just posting him for putting MAN into MANly

How many people care about accurate maps over exciting ones? In a typical fantasy game, aren't the rules going to be bent around, so does it matter?

>>4050099
Look at a map of the real world. Better yet, look at a picture of some awesome geography.

Now look at a map done by someone who has no idea what s/he was doing and just threw continents anywhere.

Notice a difference in quality?

>>4049872
thats fucking heroic

>>4050136

Yes, but it doesn't make it a better map for play purposes. Sometimes the ridiculously made maps of non cartographers are just more fun.

>>4050169
Not really, there are few real-world features that can be bested, other than LOLRANDUMXD giant trees or whatever.

Hey Dr. Baron von Evilsatan

The shit you are saying is fucking awesome. Any chances you can compile this (and whatever else you want to talk about) on a wiki?

Is this a map thread?
Here, have a map of "The magic world" from Mahou Sensei Negima.

>>4049830
Gatteling guns shoot missles before hitting airships.

>>4050273
>Gatteling
DERP

I've been working on a modification of the warhammer map. I added a fantasy version of switzerland in the middle of the european continent area.

The idea was a very lush, mountainous area (like real life switzerland), which is very hard to reach and almost impossible to invade. THe residents are a bunch of religious puritains who claim to be in possession of a direct link to the heavens. As for role-playing, they'll treat you well as long as you follow your manners perfectly and dont do anything suspicious or sinful

Holys shit this is awesome. We must start archiving, and Baron Von Evilsatan, I suggest you put it onto 1d4chan or something.

>>4049830
actually airships have compartmentalized chambres for the gas, similar to a ships hull. you can damage several compartments, or even half and the ship will only begin a very slow descent downward

also helium wont leave that fast, so even if you raked all sides of the airship with gunfire, the slow rate of outgassing will mean it will basically slowly begin to float downward.

blimps are basically the safest aircraft you can fly, granted the weather is calm

>>4050410
Helium would probably vent faster if you punched a hole in the top. If you ripped the bottom of the balloon, very little would happen most likely.

>>4050421
yup, but again if its filled compartment by compartment, you'd only lose a small chunk.

probably enough to make you slowly come down to earth, but youd still be up in the air for a while.

>>4049366
Congratulations. You are now the only person on /tg/ with somewhat interesting ideas that deviate from the run-of-the-mill generic fantasy "medieval magic America" shit.

>>4050421
...I think you may just have found a reason for why people would build airships that evolved into flying aircraft carriers.

>>4050230

For those who are interested (I traced that map), Akamatsu basically took a topographical map of our Mars, turned it upside-down, added some continents, flooded it with some seas, added a Mercator projection to a map that was originally equirectangular (as most raw-data maps tend to be, equirectangular is the simplest projection for that: one degree X one degree is a square, which is easy computin'), and added some place-names from either places on Mars, Mediterraenean cities, or ancient mythologies, and bam, instant map for an magical Mars.

the only map you'll ever need

>>4049846

>The VOID DRAGON is rumored to be asleep and waiting for the right time to return.

>Did the Emprah JUST AS PLANNED the IMPRISONMENT OF VOID DRAGON to jump start the ADEPTUS MECHANICUS?

Fix'd

>>4049366
This is pretty much exactly Forgotten Realms 4e.

>>4051197
Dude, wrong planet.

>>4050410
No - not blimps. Blimps are essentially funny shaped balloons, held up by the pressure of gas inside them. Punch a hole in them, and the gas comes spewing out. Rigid airships on the other hand have a metal frame and, as a previous poster said, several gas bags. The pressure of the gas is roughly the same as air pressure, so only a little will escape from holes. You could fire a machine gun through an airship and it wouldn't have much effect.

The main problem is the gondola - a flimsy construction of metal and glass. Shoot at that and the airship dies.

Question for Evilsatan or anyone that would know:

I want a massive forest on part of a continent, but on that same continent, a huge desert. What do I do? Would I put a FUCKHUGE mountain line through part of it, and on one side the desert and opposite side the forest?

>>4051308
Make it an heavily armed metal box.

That would change combat to trying to breach as much gas bags as possible...

Specialised planes with napalm sprayers or bombs...

Until the gas bags get changed from cloths to metal...

How do you deal with scale in maps? Most fantasy maps seem to enlarge too much - a few countries each with only a couple of cities, and a mountain range between them, in an area that's supposed to be the size of Europe or something.
I tend to draw huge forests and mountain ranges, and mostly forget smaller woodlands and marshes, etc., which I suppose is ok on world maps, but not on national ones.

>>4051362
>Specialised planes with napalm sprayers or bombs...
Useless against helium really, unless you mean just burning through the cloth- oh, you do.
>Until the gas bags get changed from cloths to metal...
That's where the unobtanium comes in - light and ductile enough to be made into wires which can be woven, and thus can be used as a kind of armoured cloth.
Even without that, there are always flame-proofing methods.

>>4048651

>If on a physical, made-by-people, bridge, you'd better have a fuckign fantastic explanation as to how the fuck a bridge got so big as to support a city and why the fuck hasn't the incredible technology to build that been replicated. That's not being sarcastic, those are real questions and if you have good answers then your bridge is probably just fine.

In the war between gods and primordials, one primordial was turned into stone. Its body is now a massive land bridge. A city has been built over its heart (Stoneheart -> Stumhart). The insides of the titan are a functioning massive dungeons. This is my next campaign locale

>>4051474

FFFFFFFFFFFFfuck yes that's an awesome idea.

>>4051351

Yep. That works perfectly, in fact. The rains roll up the mountain, get trapped, provide lots of water on that side, good for trees, and then the other side gets no rain at all. Keep it inland, too, so no rains get at it from other angles.

On that note, how did the Sahara form, Evilsatan or any other climatogeologist out there?

>>4051502

Awesome thanks. And I second your question, because I'm very curious as well.

>>4051351

Perufag here, basically yes. Due to Humbolt's Current (a cold current from the Antartic), one side of the Andes is pretty dry and cold (I live near the equator and we have mild summer and winter) and the other is OMFG RAINFOREST! The change is quite abrupt

>>4051611

That's excellent, thanks.

>>4050410

Dirigibles are awesome - and despite what some people think, because of the whole Hindenburg thing - very safe.
Hell, in the current climate of rising fuel prices and the need to be be green, it would make sense for airline companies to start thinking of going back to balloons as a method of aerial mass transit - you can build them larger than aircraft, and they're much more fuel efficient - in theory you could probably use solar power for a good deal of their power too.
The only real downside is that they're slower - and if you can offer people a cheaper/better quality journey then you can offset that

>>4051637

actually, zepellings nowaday use non-flamable gases so its pretty safe, but airplanes won by looking safer, and later, by beign quicker. I'd love to ride a zepellin at least once

If someone would take all the magic away from a setting like Warcraft and the climate could run rampant - what would the world look like? Especially with so many mountains and weird stuff like that freaky maelstrom.

>>4051502

There's actually woodlands on the Mediterranean side, and then lots of mountains and shit. And on the Atlantic side, you have some scrublands and shit, and then mountains.

So it's seaward edges have mountains.

>>4051692

The Maelstrom might suck in everything and desertify the facing it. You know, it could eat up all the currents and rainstorms and shit.

>>4051692
See, this is what I'm talking about. WHY ARE ALL THE DESERTS ON THE COAST?

>>4051667
Indeed, they are much safer than aeroplanes now, but people still think of them as being unsafe - A topic on airships came up on some forum or another and loads of numpties all jumped in yelling about how unsafe airships are - As I said though, with things changing and increasing pressure on people/governments/companies to be greener, the time is ripe for airships to make a come back, it just needs someone to make it happen - Richard Branson maybe, he likes balloons...

>>4051719

*scratches head* Hum. Simple and evil. Yes, I could see that happen.

And if the maelstrom wouldn't be there? I could imagine that quite a lot of the world would turn into a desert, because of all the mountains.

>>4051692

The warcraft world map is one of the most pathetic and boring ive ever seen.

The entire world is a fucking desert, and not even an interesting one at that.

>>4051801

And still, I'm interested in it. Damn you, Warcraft II, why was your story so awesomely funny?

This thread is now about airships!

>>4051855
This is fine by me

Question

Is there any real difference between RPGworld Airships and real life dirigibles/blimps/etc?

>>4052013

The RPG ones look a lot better, with beautiful decorations and useless but awesome-looking parts?

>>4052013

Usually whatever propels them. Steampunk airships use steampower (durr), while fantasy airships can use a variety of options, sometimes having magic power the ship in some way.

Interesting read all this. Always helps to freshen up on various things that make the world go round.

On the subject of world creation, I'm currently working on using a world I created for some RPG campaign. So far it has been used in a few larps.

Tell me, oh wise ones, if the Moon was suddenly to be destroyed, like some gigantic death ray just blows it into a billion tiny bits, what sort of effect would it have on Earth within a 2000 year window? Obviously the bits would fall down here and cause some havoc, ocean tides would cease to be, nights would be darker, etc. Could the chunks of rock form a ring around Earth? Is Earth capable of even sustaining a ring (so far all the big planets seem to be the ones with rings), if it were to be given the opportunity?

>>4052013

Classic fantasy airships have the gondola part constructed more, well.....shiplike.

We took the liberty of clearly labeling the location of wenches on our world map, but then the DM got a hold of it.

>>4052073
>>4052103
>>4052118

Because I've always wondered, if they can construct airships, why not airplanes and so forth? Airplanes with magic bombs, etc.

>>4052185

That takes a bunch more magic and shit. Though if you want to play a high magic campaign and have bound fire elementals run jet fighters that shoot lightning bolts and drop earthquake generating bombs on a strafing run, be my guest.

>>4051351
Look at Oregon rain, mountains, and deserts.

It works fine.

>>4052220

That sounds awesome.

>>4052185

I guess because it's easier to construct a blimp - a good airplane needs to be fast and easily manoeuvrable, and they need an engine as well.

>>4052185

Airplanes are a lot more complex looking at things from a psuedo medieval fantasy setting, also they're able to stay afloat at much, much slower speeds than airplanes, so they dont need that massive of a power source to propel the ship.

Airships very greatly depending on the game and setting, but to put it very simply the construction of an airship in a classic fantasy themed setting can merely be a ship's hull attached to a balloon with propellers to guide its movement. Thats to put it, very, very simply.

But really there's no reason why there cant be magic powered airplanes, make your own campaign setting and put it in if youd life.

>>4051692

It's even worse when you look at the WoW in-game map.

Okay, SOME places are fine, sort of (if you summon the biggest fuckoff fire elemental ever, you're probably going to end up with a volcano and fiery wastelands) but jesus, that shit is a fucking patchwork mess.

Azeroth can be slightly excused since iirc mountains were magically raised by the dragons or some shit to keep the civilisations seperated and peaceful until some evil dragon fucked that up, but that doesn't explain everything. Then you go to Outland and see the terrain completely fucking change when you step over the border of one zone into the next. ffff.

>>4052273

Yeah a lot of the warcraft lore was constructed because blizzard became increasingly lazy.

>>4052185
Probably because the image of big slow airSHIPs is fitting with the traditional image of fantasy and ancient times. Planes as anything other than some kite with a motor, is not fitting with that image.

Can you imagine some elf zooming about in a triplane while another elf lets a rear mounted repeater bolt thrower pound large targets. Then the Red Giblin charges from the sun, firing of fire and lightning upon the elf plane.

The image might be neat, but most likely too original for the masses, who want simple things. Fuck, I remember how local boffing people consider anything outside of Europe and the traditional plate/chain mail, sword, shield, spear, etc. combo not "medieval", and that boffing has always been medieval. So that means no Turks nor Mongolians, who fought Eastern Europe, not any Middle Eastern, who white man fought during the crusades. No late medieval muskets, while everyone allows the use of late medieval bladed weapons.

>>4052114
If the moon suddenly asploded - I can't see it doing that in a manner that would juse leave behind tiny debris and no larger irregular chunks by the way - in a 2000-year time frame the unstable bits would have mostly all either rained down or left the orbit for interplanetary space, the rest forming a rather stable ring around Earth.

>>4052297
All you need to explode a moon into bits, is some good ol' techno-BS. Seeing how its done (by accident) by a race that not only conquerred, but also dominated the entire universe (not galaxy, universe) and was planning to spread into other levels of existence, until they fucked it up, having the means to turn some speck of dust and rock into a big floating pile of dust and rock, shouldn't be hard to do.

>>4052273

WOW isn't meant to represent ever inch of the planet as it would appear IRL. There are places mentioned in the RPG books and stuff that aren't in WOW, for example.

>>4052417

Exactly. Some liberties needed to be made for the sake fo gameplay.

Or did you really want to have a trip through Barrens take over a week? Or a journey from Undercity to Booty Bay require a full month?

>>4052417

It's still unnerving to leave a hellish-red desert and suddenly enter a blue mushroom-kingdom.

Warhammer Online does it a wee bit better. The zones are not directly connected, and you can always say "Yeah, okay, there's a lot of land between the two zones" if you want to.

But that's not the topic. And the map is still stupid and way too small for a true, thriving world.

>>4052114
The Earth's axis is stabilized by the moon.

If it were destroyed the Earth would wobble erratically, leading to massive climate variations. Most life on the surface would die, leading to mass desertification. Think Mars but with with oceans.

>>4052454

That doesnt keep the map and terrain from being incredibly dull, and in no way affects their decision to have zones (especially in outland) quarantined off from each other with abrupt changes of climate. That's just lazy.

We're talking about magic and space combined here, they could come up with a better way of explaining climate differences in outland rather than "FUCK TON OF MOUNTAINS FUCK YEAR".

Blizzard is just a lazy money sucking machine nowadays.

>>4052454
Yup, and lets face it, everything we know about the world is mostly theories based on observing things, but that doesn't mean we know everything. Quantum mechanics is still a total mystery, even if we have today machines that work on quantum mechanics (in other words we have machines that work, we just don't have a clue how), and I remember one article about a galaxy some 13 billion light years away, that's so big, technically it shouldn't even be possiple.

So there's always exceptions to the rules.

>>4052454

Many other games have worked around that issue in more interesting and involved ways.

There's no reason you couldnt do that with wow, they just created a half-assed game.

>>4052454
I've played Oblivion.

I've learned to enjoy 4 hours of gameplay in which I met a dog, two wolves and four deers.

>>4052475
citation needed.

>>4052417
>>4052454

Everyone is aware the game world is scaled, genius. Or did you really think everyone assumes the homeland of each race consists of one city, one small town and a starter village?

If you expanded it out to its "actual" size it would still be a fucking shitty patchwork map. It's so there's a lot of variety in the different environments you can visit, which is better than some other games' "lol, endless identical green fields!", but the map still doesn't make any sense.

>>4051692

I thought Kul Tiras was retconned out in WoW.

>>4052544

>Or did you really think everyone assumes the homeland of each race consists of one city, one small town and a starter village?

You have far too much faith in humanity if you believe there aren't people who think that. Or I'm just too cynical.

>>4052505
can u provide name or some info on that mega galaxy...i'm intrig..uh cant spell that, i'm interested.

>>4052525
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/moon_mechanics_0303018.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt
http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q106.html
http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/qa_earth.html#moon

Quick Google search provided that.

>>4052573

Somewhere out there, right now, a group of people are playing World of Warcraft d20.

They are in Elwynn Forest. There are no villages or towns except Northshire, Goldshire and Stormwind.

Also, one of them is a half-night elf half-blood elf related to Sylvanas.

>>4052521

Or take Morrowind. The world felt quite believable, and offered even some very distinct landscapes.

>>4052609

It's scary cause its true.

>>4052475
Mars had moons, and it's still a shit hole.

I've read some stuff on the web, but so far all of it is based on if we never even had a moon. Only effects would be a lower tide, maybe less activity within the continental plates and the Earth wouldn't have a tilt, but rotate straight. This would cause that there wouldn't be no seasons, etc.

...
Ah, came across something:
http://archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk/2002/9/30/119516.html
By this, any massive effect would take very long time to develope.

>>4052666

Yes, Mars has two moons, but they are measly smallish potatoes compared to our beautiful grand Luna.

>>4052560

It still "exists", it's just not accessible in game.

>>4052631

Morrowind was the best at everything ... unless you wanted to mage it up.

>>4052666
>Mars had moons, and it's still a shit hole.

Mars has tiny asteroids, they don't stabilize it's orbit, and as such it wobble erratically.

>>4052666
>By this, any massive effect would take very long time to develope.

I should also not that the hell hole currently known as the Sahara Desert was created when the earth's axis shifted. This took place in a few thousand years, and is partially responsible for the rise of the Nile civilizations.

>>4052666
>>4052681

To call Phobos and Diemos "moons" is a bit inaccurate. They're captured asteroids and by no means comparable to a "proper" moon like Luna.

Oh, God, I lolled so hard. Is there a thing people in the internet cannot discriminate against? "Hey marsfags! Hows your little niggamoons?"

>>4052811

Aww come on, at least they're trying. Let them be moons if they want to.

>>4052862

If Pluto can't be a planet any more then they can't be moons.

>>4052811

Stop hatin, bro! You one of these uptight niggas who say ol' Pluto's not a good planet anymore, aight? Fuck ya shit!

>>4052876

Stop that! I don't want to hear a single word anymore! Lies! Dirty lies! There are nine planets in the Solar System, no less, no more!

My very excellent mother just sent us nine pizzas
My very excellent mother just sent us nine pizzas
My very excellent mother just sent us nine pizzas
My very excellent mother just sent us nine pizzas

*cries*

>>4052521
>deers.

Jupiter here.

I have moons the size of planets.

Y'all can suck my Great Red Spot.

>>4052890
>>4052876

Actually, I'm a proponent of Pluto's planethood. It's denser than the planet Saturn (Saturn will fucking float in water lawl). And while it has the smallest radius it still exceeds 1k

Mainly because I want Eris to be a planet too. And have its name changed back to Xena. Xena needs a planet.

>>4052947

Jupiter will soon have TWO big red spots.
Jupiter will therefore soon be /d/-related.

Fuck Uranus and your moons.

>>4052947

Exactly.

You have satellites, which include any orbiting object. But to qualify as a moon, it should be at least large enough that it's roughly spherical, so as to distinguish between things like Luna/Europa and captured asteroids.

Moons? Everyone has moons. Get some rings, yo.

>>4052990
>Fuck Uranus

Ew, no, I'm not a faggot, you retard.

>>4052930
My very simple method just speeds up naming planets!

>>4053018
Neither are all the lonely men in prison.

How do you know Uranus isn't a chick?

>>4053025

A fellow Plutoplanetocrat! You get a hug.

<mine

started as a line drawing, then I scanned it and photoshopped it

>>4053049
Because it ain't my kitchen.

>>4053074

Sea of Sargeras

I take it you are a Warcraft-fan, sir?

>>4053103
I play, though I had no idea the name came from there until you mentioned it... weird how these things happen

I yet have to use this

>>4053121

I did the same thing. I was going to name a God in one of my Writefag stories Tyr, and then I read that he was a God in D&D and facepalmed.

>>4053136

If by D&D you mean Norse mythology then yes. http://www.pantheon.org/articles/t/tyr.html

I was under the impression that the names at least of the D&D deities were original, but I guess not...

Here is the awesomest map ever. It has furries and faggots everywhere.

>>4053121

He's the Big Bad, although he seems to be somewhat absent since a while.

The map is alright, but a little bit lackluster.
The desert in the middle is too square.
The continents and islands look too cramped together, but that's just my thing, I like vast seas.
Maybe you could add some more colors to distinguish areas, more deserts, steppes, tundras, rainforests, etc.

>>4053152

Nah, at least half of the DnD gods were lifted from mythology.

>>4053152

I didn't even know that much, which is weird considering I had no idea where I got the name from before coming here and seeing it.

>>4053181
needs to be corrected for geographical accuracy.

>>4048584
How did you make that?

>>4053196
all decent ideas

>>4052970
>Jupiter will soon have TWO big red spots.
WaitwaitWHAT? Tell me more!

>>4053368

I'm not sure, I've read something about it in a German Science-magazine. "Soon" is something along the lines of 500 years, though.

Not too surprising to me. After all, it IS just a very, very, very, very, very big red tornado. It will rip apart and then form two smaller ones.

Has anyone else heard about this?

>>4053368
>>4053392

Alright, I fucked this up. Memory-fail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_red_spot#Oval_BA

>>4053209

I knew this was true in personality etc. but I've never noticed a deity with a name identical to a mythological one before. Lots of monsters named after mythological ones, often interpreted waaay differently, though (see: gorgons, basilisks, etc).

>>4053227

With the help of this guy:
>http://forum.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=4084

1. Get Photoshop
2. Follow Ascension's instructions
3. ???
4. Profit!

>>4053520

Amazing.

>>4053520

Have to log in to view the instructions, bro.

>>4053631

bugmenot is your friend

>>4053631
login: crap
password: crapper

Nice tutorial, but my version of Photoshop is way out of date for it.

>>4053679

Holy crap

It worked

>>4051308
Weren't most airships built with the superstructure inside the ovoid?

>>4053679

<3

Fuck.
Three cheers for von Evilsatan.
My maps were decent, but not to the extent they should have been. Thank you for the insight.

i'd like to see one of Dr. Baron's maps

So assuming that your usual fantasy world has a creation story, like a god or many gods coming in and creating everything with their thought, what makes you people think they'd follow the usual rules? They could put mountains into places that don't make sense, and make rain arrive in somewhere it shouldn't, and swamps well above sea level, etcetera. Just asking.

>>4056266

Assuming.

>>4056266
unless the gods actively make things work wrong on purpose this'll do great. and there ARE swamps well above sea level, wherever water flows towards a place too shallow to become a lake but isolated from the sea, like the okabango

>>4056266

Even if a god randomly throws down mountains, any rivers that run down from said mountains are still going to flow naturally, unless like a previous poster said the god's purposefully make it run backwards.

Dr. evil baron's ideas are based towards creating maps in a more realistic fashion which could be used for all different kinds of settings, your ideas wouldn't be out of place in a -fantasy- themed campaign, although most likely would be unique areas that would make your players go "oh shit thats cool" rather than an entire world as such.

Like floating islands, or strange unworldy rock formations formed during great wars between the gods, etc.

Whoops, accidental sage.

Bump for awesome thread.

Look what I found at Deviantart.
It's funny - 99 % of it is pure crap, but the one percent that's left is either decent or awesome.

Yeehaww

Here is my meager attempt for the GURPS game I'm running. Still subject to change if anons are willing to give advice about the most glaring mistakes, although here's what's been established so far during the game:

A is tropical, mostly jungle, with mountainous regions obviously colder and less forested.

B is mostly plains and woodlands

C is arid, with large deserts further away from the river. Desertification may be partially caused by a large human civilization in the region.

D is temperate woodlands with increasing percentages of evergreen trees in the north, similar to northern Europe in many ways.

>>4060137

Here's a detail map of the "western" continent on that world map, showing (A), where two out of the three player characters originally come from, and (B), where the Ancient Tradition™ they now belong to makes their home.

Ignore the freaky names, they're meant to be clunky and unnatural-sounding on purpose, being translations from a very difficult-to-learn ancient language.

>>4060137
>>4060357

I like it. ESPECIALLY the names. I like it a lot more when someone dares to use a wee bit freaky names compared to the ohsoepic "Grimm Forest Of Hauntening Shadowings" for example.
No, scratch that, that last name sounds nice.

>>4060630

Oh. Thanks.

Here's another detail map, this time centered on (D), where our current adventure is taking place. A strange place where the land is covered in a cold, white substance for a large part of the year, and many of the trees have pointy spikes instead of leaves. To travel during the cold season, the PCs had to learn to move about on an unusual local conveyance: pairs of long, narrow wooden implements partially coated with grease and propelled by pushing off the ground using long sticks.

And finally, here's the last map I have, a zoomed-out version of the previous one. Named "Kafath" is (C) on the world map, location of one of our previous adventures, heavily inspired by ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia.