Nice, you've made them suck even more, dumbfuck.

>>3842516
What, you like the sparkly shit? Trying to move away from Twilight here.

How about they just burn to death like real vampires

The fangs should be more obvious. Not like tusks, but just enough to make them look more inhuman.

>>3842530
>twilight invented vampires.

>>3842542
Can we have both?

Vampires will always suck.

How about a campaign of good undead, like Liches or those floating death-fetuses

OP here. Not saying Twilight invented vampires, but with Underworld and that shit, we've seen the popularized version of vampires. It makes them Mary Sues. I gotta say, I like the idea of a wrinkled evil old shut-in of a fuck who's addicted to blood.

Eberron.

It makes everything more awesome.

More specifically, Karrnath, the Blood of Vol, and Qabalrin traditions.

Sunlight = Spontaneous combustion

Make them morbid bastards, with whatever human traits left twisted from years upon years of having to do horrible things to prolong their unlives.

>>3842575
grimdark vampires? Awesome.

Part of the whole modern concept of vampires arose around eastern europe, and western-europeans' views that the easterners "lusty lewdness" was evil.

Drinking blood from the neck was supposed to be kinky, and that's why they always went after women.

Nosferatu vampires are kind of the exception to the rule.

Part of the key to making vampires not gay is to not make them feel any remorse for drinking blood. No fruity "Restraining themselves", no fucking "Vegetarian vampires" or "Vampires that only drink blood of animals, and only ugly not-cute animals".

Vampires that are good looking, cocky, and immortal.
Vampires that come in the night, drink the blood of female PCs or romantic interest of Male PCs, turning them into their own personal undead sex-slaves, and rubbing it in PCs faces.

Like a dapper version of the High-school jock archetype, sans the sports, and more "Russian Lover" accent.

>>3842582
Elaborate? I don't know much about that campaign setting.
>>3842566
Like a what-if thing? Could work if you applied the "awakened" rule to zombies and skeletons, and a lich doesn't have to be evil. Vampire would be hard to pull off because it needs the blood of the living.

>>3842578

Twilight and Underworld didn't invent the idea of a Vampires being exceptionally attractive, stylish, intelligent, and capable. It's at least a couple hundred years old.

The blood drinking should be a need, not a desire. They should be lack crack addicts.

One word

Ravenloft.

>>3842562
>Vampires will always suck.
I lol'd.

>>3842609
Alright, alright, I was wrong, I'm sorry.

Vampires are a race of constantly evolving humanoids who derive their power from what is known as the Spiral. Their acquisition of this power is said to come from the fact that they drink the blood of so many different species.

When exposed to sunlight, vampires tend to burst into green flames that begin to consume them, and if any objects of their ire are nearby, vamps tend to go out fighting. Usually with one final powerful flame-engulfed kick or punch.

They tend to wear bright colors and stylized clothing to demonstrate their effectiveness: Despite the fact that they hunt at night, they don't need to wear camouflaging black to catch you.

In battle they tend to utter guttural cries filled with spirit. Because the formation of the spiral energy within them tends to heat the blood they steal from other races, this berserk state of mind is known as "hotblood".

Base them on this guy

>>3842628
What's this Spiral stuff?

The "use your last moment to strike what irks you" thing is something I could get behind, but how about the start to rot and compost instead of being engulfed in flame?

>>3842633
GIVE HIM GOOGLY EYES!

Dracula didn't die in sunlight.

>>3842679
He does now.

>>3842599

In Eberron, the earliest recorded practices of necromancy amongst mortal races occured amongst Giants and their Elven slaves. Blood sacrifice, immortality, etc were all part of their cultures, amongst other things.

Giant civilization fell and the Elves split up into those who continued practicing necromancy with negative energy, and those who started to pursue positive energy necromancy (deathless and the like). Positive energy guys won out. The ones that continued practicing negative energy necromancy fled to what is now the main continent of the setting.

The setting also has noble merchant houses called Dragonmarked houses, whose members have powers over certain spheres (finding things, breeding animals, travel, etc). There was once a house that had powers over death, but they were wiped out. The lone survivor of the house (a lich) took up the necromatic traditions of the past and founded the Blood of Vol.

They eventually met with Humans, and the beliefs continue to be practiced. The Blood of Vol is one of the major faiths of the land that suggests that it's possible for anyone to become an immortal god and that the secret is in one's blood. Undead are martyrs because they can spend the rest of their existence in the search for divinity- even though they themselves will never become divine- having lost their blood in the process of becoming undead.

Karrnath is a region that was part of a large empire. It has a long history of martial conquest (with a bit of Eastern European/Russian flavor). During a long civil war, they declared independce and started using undead in their army. Recently, however, the leader of the Kingdom (secretly a vampire) had a falling out with the leader of the Blood of Vol and seeks to undermine the faith throughout the land, even though the army still makes use of Necromancy.

>>3842663

Not manly enough.

This guy, but paler and as a bloodsucker.

>>Like a dapper version of the High-school jock archetype...

Hey Janet, why don't you leave that loser Gogthar, and get with a real man. My parents just bought me a new carriage with a dozen nightmares.

I don't like the idea of a "vampire nation." Vampires would be parasitical, and would want to stay where there is plenty of food and few rivals to take it.

>>3842706
Yeah, sounds a bit to pretty boy.

A cabal of vampires that have used their long lives to not only learn magic, but bond themselves to the plane of shadow for extra power.

You think sunlight will help you? THEY BRING THE NIGHT WITH THEM.

>None of that twinkly sparkly shit. In fact, I want the opposite. When they're exposed to sunlight a 3 foot-wide radius around them starts to look dim and bleak, as the illusion of life starts to fade.

Jesus ucking christ. What's wrong with people these days? Can't Vampires just BURN TO DEATH like the good old days?

>>3842734
That should only be for one or two vampires, the ones leading the coven. They use it to control the other vampires, by expanding the shadows to help them or drawing them back to harm them.
>>3842739
Read the fucking thread.

>>3842547
So...Nosferatu?

>>3842752

Give then a nice hangout on the plane of shadow. No sunlight, all the time. Makes it pretty safe.

When you need food, jump accross the dimensional border to the prime, drink your fill, grab some mortals for later, planeshift back.

They could be the scourge of multiple planes.

>>3842754
Good with me, yeah.

So, so far I'm looking at Nosferatu fangs, die in sunlight (clear up how, right now options are rotting away, turning to ash, burning, or exploding), not a nation but more like a hidden cult with few vampires, one or two vampire lords/ladies who can control shadow, addicted to blood, no morals or guilt, and they're so spiteful that they'll use their last moments to try and kill whatever pisses them off.

Can we establish something when it comes to looks?

>>3842771
Drow?

>>3842771
Nah, I don't think they should be unassailable like that. Their basically Dark Elfdar at that point. It should be more of a "hide in plain sight" situation, as then they have to do more than just drink blood, they also need to influence politics and such to make sure that no effort is made to find them. Make sure disappearances that they cause don't lead to suspicion of vampires, make sure their is always something more important than another beggar going missing, making sure that they society doesn't become puritan to the point were those that don't fit in will be watched.

>>3842780
Looks should be dependent on how much blood they've been getting.

>>3842780
The staple is upper-class/royalty east-european handsome/beautiful, changes into a more grotesque form when fighting.

>>3842875
What if we ditched the transformation stuff? Instead, they just use their inherently magical nature to cast an illusion.

Also duelist vampires and such. On account of the nobility.

Should probably be the "aloof, eccentric, noble" who affects politics indirectly.

>>3842663
Like when Quentin Tarantino's scrotum starts falling off in Planet Terror, but he wants to rape the chick anyway?

>>3842895
Sure. Okay.

>>3842780

Well, the ones that are heavy on shadow magic might have that represented in their looks. Have them look like someone who has only just died, but covered in arcane tattoos that don't reflect light (as in are supernaturally black, like looking into the void), and their own shadows have a tendency to move on their own.

Obviously, these guys wouldn't blend in with mortals, no matter how hard they try. So they would do their thing and stick to, surprise, the shadows and hide themselves.

The only time a mortal would see them (that wasn't immediatly followed by a profound lack of bodily fluids) was if they were providing cover for other vampires during the day for some special mission.

>>3842628
FUCK YEA GURREN LAGANN
>Vampires are a race of constantly evolving humanoids who derive their power from what is known as the Spiral.

Vampires have to kill humans to survive anyway. Lets use that.
Have them look like the dessicated undead they are, but have them cover themselves in the skin of recent kills, making them look like normal people for a few days as well as giving them protection form the sun (except for their eyes, which they would probably need sunglasses for anyway, being nocturnal).

This also means that if your fiend disappears for a few hours and then returns, they might be a vampire in disguise (just popping into to advance the vampires greater plans, mention to people that they are leaving and never coming back, and shedding the skin later).

>>3842909
That could work. Let's not give vampires shadows, not that it would make a difference since they would always be in the dark.

And let's definitely keep those shadow vampires in very low number. Not the dons of the mafia, the two or three dons in the world that no one would ever fuck with.

>>3842933
Ooh, grimdark. I like it.

>>3842933
OP here. That is so fucking dark without being magical bullshit, I love it! I'm going with this.

About being blood-fueled...

Let's say they don't actually need blood to survive, but to do the crazy shit. Vampires can shut down their superior processes, go "undead", and go Honored Matre and worse for a while, and they need the blood to restart the biological processes before they end up screwed neurally and physically (hello abominations).

This is how they can appear to be truly dead. The only reason they hunt for blood is that if you had fuck awesome powers that require violence, wouldn't you also load up before the other vampires/opponents get the jump on you?. It's natural competition.

>>3842941

Better yet, remove them from the hierarchy altogether. You have the dons, those that serve them, and then you have... those guys.
The ones that sit off by themselves and do their thing, regardless of whatever the dons are planning.

Last time one of us tried to get them to play ball... have you ever seen someone eaten by the shadow cast by a nearby tree? I have.

I don't know where the body went.

>>3842933
>sunglasses
I don't know if I should scream ANIKIIIIIIII or YEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Wait, what about the exploding/turning to ash/burning in the sunlight thing?

Chinese Vampires. Like Ming the Merciless and shit. Now, mix the OCD-like tendencies of vampires in many folk-lores and mix it with the super-fucking strict Chinese aristocratic court. They run their courts incredibly strict. In order to actually interact with them you must take the appropriate amount of steps, bow so many times at the perfect acceptable angles, avert your eyes in the proper way, etc.

>>3843037
I think that should vary from coven to coven. All the vampires work pretty much the same, except for the shadow dudes that are outside the system, but different covens have different attitudes and rules. Kinda like Necromunda.

>>3843037

These guys are affected by all of the superstitions. But they are mostly self-enforced. They will be repelled by garlic, be unable to enter a home without being invited, not cross running water, constantly count thing like tiles and bricks and servants. Not because these things actually repel them or hold some sort power but because of their OCD like tendencies.

What actually does have power over them is sunlight and holy icons. But they are super fucking resilient. The only way to kill a vampire for sure is put a stake in their heart, behead them, expose them to sunlight to reduce them to ash and bury it at a crossroads.

>>3843110

I always liked the whole 'bury it at a crossroads' thing. Kind of implied that you needed that ground to be constantly packed down. You know, just in case.

Lacking comments on the western front, proposing variations:

>>3842596
being seductive manipulators. You know, Bram Stoker's Dracula.
>>3842971
If blod fuels powers or just their lives. Like an UA addict getting charges.
>>3843031
How does sunlight affects them, if it does at all.

>>3843110
Maybe we can link in the OCD with other mental disorders that would be associated with an immortal killer druggy that wears peoples' skin. It's not because they are vampires, but because of what they do as vampires.

>>3843198

Maybe the more blood you drink, the more alive you look/feel? The ones that look undead are the ones that play it smart and pick off the ones no one will notice.

The charming, manipulative bastards drain a bitch almost every night, and as such look wonderfully attractive (which is ironically what they use to drain a bitch every night).

Problem is, they run a high risk of getting noticed.

So many choices...
Should we archive this for later reference?

So, we have the:

Umbral Vampire Cabal

Austistic Asian Genius Royal Family

Don Juan De Ceased 'man whore' vampires (probably nomadic)

Am I missing any groups?

Weren't original vampires pretty much like freshly buried corpses with long nails, hair and fangs who then creeped around at night and sucked blood and ATE BABIES?

>>3843272

Skin-wearing creepy fuckers.

They might be part of the OCD asian ones, but are certainly not a part of the charming guys or the shadow peeps.

>>3842628
You are now picturing Yoko as a vampire.

[spoiler]manually[/spoiler]

>>3843037
>>3843110
>>3842933
Should be different species in the same genus of vampire. Having Our Vampires Be Different, there should be a decent variety depending on how they were formed and their environment.

I don't know much about win, but I think I might be looking at it.

>>3842771
>hangout on the plane of shadow
>jump accross the dimensional border to the prime
>shadows

Y hulo thar!

>>3843322
Sadly, /b/ is the more appropiate place to learn. They are used to waiting for gold among the slag.

>>3843335

A flying, plane-traveling shadow fortress? DO WANT!

...

Seriously, the only way the could be cooler was if it traveled through time too.

May not be win, but I don't see any fail. No real trolls. No faggotry. This is.. refreshing. Something I needed to see in /tg/.

>>3843284
For some reason the most erotic part of this pic is her face.

Thanks /tg/. This thread has re-kindled my respect for bloodsucking undead. Too many 'sympathetic' vampires have been allowed to run amuck, making many of us forget why they were cool in the first place.

Bravo, /tg/. Bravo.

*begins to clap, but then has to re-adjust the skin of his left hand, which has come loose a little.*

You didn't see that.

>>3843381

That should always be the case.

Should we make the skin-wearers the servants of the other vampires? After all, the benefits of wearing skin are fitting in and protection from sunlight, so they are clearly in the field alot.

Certainly very skilled at what they do, but seems to me that more often then not they arn't the ones pulling the strings.

>>3843388
OH SHI-

Maybe there could be something on the same vein as the Legacy of Kain series. As far as vampires evolving as they age. Like every millennium, the Don will go into a form of hibernation and awaken with some new power. The power could be something that helps in their environment and hunting, such as improved climbing ability, flight, mind control, telekinesis, etc. Then later the next level will receive that power and so on down the line. But the further it goes, the weaker the power becomes. Like the Dons get full flight, while the lowest goons can merely hover.

>>3843419
Nah, the vampires should be arrogant bastards. They see the skin wearers as barbaric, despite the fact that all vampires drink blood, and try to keep them as "peasants" in the vampire hierarchy, but since they can go out into the sunlight and are about to crazy to control, the others vampires' superiority and control are merely a delusion of their own narcissism.

>>3843475

So, not officially servants, but still considered low on the totem pole?

>>3843465
Nah, it shouldn't be a pokemon thing. The different types of vampires have their own traits and rule set. They don't get more powers, but their current traits enhance, as do their mastery of them. That way, a relatively young vampire, through prudence and cunning, can take on and usurp older vampires.

>>3843488
Think the Roman attitude towards the Gaelic. Romans say they're superior, Gaelics don't give a rats ass.

>>3843514

Nice.

Might be worth giving the skin jobs some sort of flesh rotting power, to quietly dispose of a shed skin/the body parts they don't need.

Fire would work, but doesn't really fit as thematically as reducing flesh to black mush, and then dust, in a matter of minutes.

Also makes them BLOODY TERRIFYING if used as a weapon.

I know you said edition neutral, but the Shadow Template in LOM sounds perfect for the shadow vamps. You can get fast healing, a free plane shift to/from the plane of shadow per day, and they are always considered to have total concealment (unless in direct sunlight, which is never if they have the ability to 'bring the night with them').

add in some of the legacy of kain fluff to your vampires

>>3843825

such as....?

>>3843825
This has been addressed:
>>3843465
>>3843502

>>3843831
after a vampire reaches a certain age they start to evolve/start to look less human

>>3843850
ah sorry, disregard anything i wrote then

>>3843862
Not if you use the ancients.

>>3843897

>>3843907
I never said anything about Hylden dickery now did I?

>>3843862
I can kind of see that. But it should be different for each type. The skin creeps should start to rot, making them need the skin more and more; the shadow dudes should start to lose their minds and become more and more apart of the shadows (kind of a "this is the price of power" deal); the asian based ones would become more bestial which encourages their obsessiveness and need for formality, as it acts as a filter that prevents many from actually seeing them, while giving them an excuse to go violent when structure isn't followed; the de caprio vampires should start to become gaunt and withered, relying more on wits and cunning to get their prey.

>>3843862
While that's true, Kain's brood are a special case. They did not receive the blood curse because Kain did not know how to pass it on, and likely would not be able to anyway since he is not a normal vampire. Since he inherited Janos Audron's heart he had to find another way. What he did was portion parts of his soul to gift to his "children." Raziel got the biggest dose, Turel the next biggest, and so on down through Dumah, Rahab, Zephon, and Melchiah, who got such a poor portion that his body continued to rot. The corruption in Kain's soul accelerated their evolution to the point that they eventually acquired weird mutations that no blood curse vampire would ever evolve. Raziel got his wings and Kain knew that was the point of no return. He tossed his son into the Abyss to put his plan into motion and then used the Chronoplast to leap to the point where Raziel would awaken. If Raziel hadn't been killed then he would have evolved much more rapidly and become a horrifying monster that would put any of his brothers to shame.

Vorador looked the way he did because he was quite old and quite corrupt. Cloven hands and feet are as far as many vampires go. Vorador was the very first human to be converted to a vampire, so that might contribute to his looks as well.

>>3843933

But if they lose their physical charm, they lose their purpose.

Unless you make the skin-creeps charmers who got old.

>>3843950
that sounds like another vampire faction that the op could add

>>3843950
Also, there was probably a lot of Hylden dickery involved.

>>3843968

Seems too specific. All of the other vampire factions can be added without derailing the world. This 'Kain' thing sounds like it would require a major backstory addendum to any world in which it was used, and any encounter with these guys would almost necessetate them being a primary focus of the campaign.

>>3843984
Not really, no. It's never actually explained exactly what the Pillars are or what they do. It's possible that they were called into being to act as physical anchors for the laws that govern the universe, and are the only thing that could possibly hold back an entire rival race of magically-empowered beings like the Hylden. Given the fact that they're the ones who made the damn things, you could probably blame the horrible imbalance that the corruption of Kain causes on them far more than you could blame it on the Hylden Lord. (They really didn't like to name shit, huh? The Hylden Lord, the Mass, the Device, etc.)

>>3843952
The whole point is that, yes, if you can get a steady supply of blood and stay secret you'll be fine, but eventually you just have to be intelligent, cunning, even more so than your fellows. That means that there will never be an abundance of elder or ancient vampires, but those that are around are much more significant than any number of their lesser brethren. It's a way to ensure that every single vampire can't simply coast along until they're unbeatable.

>>3844022
Not really. Just have "soul curse" vamps instead of "blood curse" vamps. Different strengths and weaknesses and whatnot.

>>3844037
The Hylden Lord has a name, Hash'ak'gik

>>3843950
Hay bitch aren't you supposed to be dead?

We got dhampyrs, man. They got the blood drain, mist form, and domination gaze. What more you need?

>>3844037
the corruption started before Kain was even born, it was caused when Moebius the Timestreamer and Mortanius the Necromancer overthrew the vampire guardians

>>3844066
Actualy the corruption started when Hash'ak'gik possessed Mortanius and stabbed Ariel.

Is it a bad thing that I like vampires strictly because I like the idea of being able to safely and deliciously guzzle down blood?

I gotta say I'm not taken with this Kain thing.

Hopping Vampires.
Combine hilarious with pant shittingly brutal, zombie style.

>>3844076
Alucard.

If you are making a race of vampires, rather than a curse or power, you'd have to do this a bit differently, making them less powerful but with less weakness.

As a pedantic asshole, this is my POV and its heavily biased, but whatever.

Vampires don't combust.

what, the fuck is wrong with you? of course they-

no, lets mix shit up a tad, make it a little more viable. Vampires stay sensitive to light, but more in a, having little to no UV resistance sort of way. So opening the shades or incoming dawn isn't gonna make a vampire asplode. But if he stays out he'll start to blister, get heat stroke, and suffer what the average person might suffer if they were suddenly plopped down int he middle of death valley but at an accelerated rate. Maybe go as far as to say that instead of picking up resistance like the average person would get, in order to adapt, vamps get tumors and lesions for their trouble.

>>3844076
We're looking for tough, not god-mode. If you're playing as them then it's boring because there's no challenge. If you're going against them then it just stupid and frustrating. No one wants to play with or against someone who does the "no no, i have unbreakable forcefield."

>>3844103
cont


If a vamp wants to venture out into a bright sunny day, They'll need heavy clothes from head to toe, easily marking them as being different.

Also, if they're a race, they probably aren't dead. So it'd imply that they sort of evolved that way. So it'd make sense if their jaws or jaw muscles were on the way of being atrophied, since they don't normally rely on solid foods. Could be that they have special unsightly mouth parts to assist in this, maybe not a fullblown lamprey mouth, but moving in that direction in a subtle manner. The point is to emphasize that they are not human, they are something else, not better or worse, just different. With their own culture and behaviors that you'd expect from a people who live off an all liquid diet, spend as little time out int he day as possible, and tend to keeps their mouths covered around non vamps that they aren't trying to eat.

In one of my own settings, vampires are simply corrupted, disease-ridden versions of undine, which are water elementals or, more specifically, the harvest spirits of water. The Harvest Moon's cycle into the Hunter's Moon (also known as the Blood Moon) even represents this transformation. Basically, they are a perversion of their former species that "harvest" the blood of others, which is, in essence, the "water of life".

How this relates to this topic is a little sketchy, but I just thought I'd toss it out there for those whom might find it to be a somewhat interesting spin on the fantasy vampire mythos.

Vampires make great protagonists for a game. I mean, which is better after a fight?

1- Find medkits on the dead bodies
2- Use your Jesus wand to heal yourselves
3- Let your Halo shields regenerate
4- Just drink everyone's blood and get back to full

>>3844108

But vampires are undead in DnD. If they are not dead, they are not vampires, they are just a cult of people with vampiric tendencies.

OP, go watch Let The Right One In. That's how vampires should be done.

What about feelings and senses? As far as I can tell, we're discussing undead vampires. Do they still have emotion? Does it rot away over time? What about the sense of touch?

>>3844146

Emotion would degrade probably more to THE THIRST and all that that implies rather then the actual transformation.

Sense of touch probably doesn't change, otherwise there would be a massive dex penalty as you fumble around with objects you cant feel.

>>3844169
So a part of the degradation of their humanity is the degradation of emotion. Not connected to degradation and changes of the flesh, but could definitely be a part of the larger web of mental problems.

Srsly, after this thread, all of the vampires in my games are going to have some level of insanity.

>>3844169

Even without the thirst, immortality inevitable makes you emotionally inhumane. The whole 'everyone dies but me, no matter how much I love them' thing.

The only way to avoid it is emotional detachment.

Seriously, being immortal isn't any fun after a few hundred years pass and no one gets your jokes and goddamnit the language changed AGAIN?.

>>3844515

Vampires can make more.

>>3844532

Which means that you will only treat other vampires as people, and humans as cattle.

Although, since this is DnD, there are always elves and elans and the like (god damn elans. Psionic powers AND immortality in a LA 0 race).

>>3844545

Don't forget never eating again so long as you can get some sleep.

>>3844549
"You take 15 points of damage."

"4 power points and the improved Elan resilience feat say otherwise"

"FUCK YOU ELAN!"

>>3844545
Shouldn't it be the other way around? I mean, if noone can earn vampirism, only have it given, then wouldn't that imply a vampire who's a douche to lifers is just being stuck up for no reason?

For all you people talking about vampires in relation to the daytime, you are doing it wrong. They should need to rest while the sun is up, else they're basically capable of wrecking your shit 24/7. There should at least be some kind of hindrance to operating in the daytime, even if they're in a completely darkened room. Consider it a sort of undead biological clock.

That said, they could also have the option to take a feat or somesuch to negate that. This way, the hunters of the undead revenants of the night have to do some kind of research on who they're up against, instead of kicking down the front door and screaming "BOOM, BABY!"

Alot of their mindset depends on how much blood they have to guzzle a day. So far, there hasn't been an RPG where they need so much they -have- to kill. And either way, being a vampire isn't necessarily more grimdark than being any other sort of adventurer... you're going to be killing tons of people all the time either way.

That's not saying vampires aren't dangerous. its saying PCs ARE dangerous. Most RPGs have protagonists that kill, constantly.

Vampires should be weakened in sunlight, but able to go out in it without being destroyed. IF you want it to be an actual weakness, that is. Otherwise, you're simply saying "elapse time to night" every time, whereas if like in Blood Omen they're tempted to go out but are weaker, it does come into play and as such is a weakness.

>>3844601

You seem to be implying that this is geared at a full vampire party. This is for DnD, not a white wolf game. Unless be nocturnal was the theme of the campaign, expect most PCs to be awake during the day and have shit to do.

No one is saying that a vampire shouldn't be able to stay up late into the daytime, but removing the whole death by sunlight aspect from vampires is like making werewolves uneffected by silver. Death by sunlight is an integral part of being a vampire. It sucks, but it its one of the few things that can stop these monstrosities.

How else do you plan on killing the fuckers? Wooden stake in the heart? Gee, I hope that they don't wear any sort of armor whatsoever.

>>3844601
No, it's going to stay "light falls, you die." Though it be more damage over time, it'd be a lot of damage. There are ways around it, but I like the idea suggested that even if they aren't in sunlight there should be a penalty for being up and about during the day.

And we're looking at vampires that kill for the sake of blood and their addiction to it. It's not that they have to do it often, it's that they're obsessed, gluttonous. The kill for the sake of greed and gluttony, they are aware of this, and it drives them insane. I'm thinking a common theme amongst older vamps would be narcissism.

OP here. To clarify, while these ideas could be used for characters, because of the blood addiction, it be pretty much like playing a demon or devil. This thread is largely for ideas regarding vampiric antagonists.

>>3844671

The ones that drink more blood than they need to to stay good looking are narcissists from day one.

And their ability to go about in the day is what makes the skin jobs and the shadowguys so scary.

Skin jobs should still take the penalties that a vampire gets for being awake during the deay, but no damage.

Shadowguys can wreath themselves in darkness at will. Its kind of their thing. Its debatable if they take penalties during the day, however being magic users they have to rest for spells eventually.

>>3844717

If you think that the skin wearing vampires are scary because they can walk out in sunlight, you are waaaaaaaaay more comfortable with PEOPLE THAT WEAR THE SKIN OF THOSE THEY KILL than I am.

>>3844717
I would say that their abilities are weakened in light in general. The "bring the shadows with you" part should be a special ability, which has a duration, but which is likewise weakened in direct sunlight. However, it remains very useful as they can still go out in the day without dying, and it also means that they have a good defense against artificial light (fire) and magical light, which is probably one of the most major spells you can use against undead. Which makes them perfect for raiding the village that KNOWS that vampires are about and tries to keep everything well lit.

>removing the whole death by sunlight aspect from vampires is like making werewolves uneffected by silver

Yer not getting it. First off, the sunlight thing comes from Hollywood.

But more importantly, you got it backwards. If vampires are killed by sunlight, well that's cool for deciding that vampires are only encountered in dungeons or at night, but there's not actually any way that can be used in game.

There's no way to drag a fight on long enough for the sun to threaten to come up. I guess in a modern setting, you could drive a dump truck into a vampire's house... but then again, you could just run him the fuck over too.

All the sunlight vulnerability does is "oh noes, the PCs have to elapse til the next evening," and maybe makes it so that vampire PCs have to miss out on XP. And that's not even remotely sensible game design... in some campaigns, it means there'll be a 0% XP penalty (the PCs can just elapse time), in other campaigns, it means there'll be a 50% XP penalty (the PCs are up doing shit 24/7)

How about we take vampires down a notch?

Undead society. The living are seen as immature undead, and must earn their resurrection. Depending on their status, wealth, power, and deeds, they may merit becoming any type of undead, from a simple zombie to a powerful lich.

Vampires are the backdoor in undead society. They can pass as living and secretly bring in more of their own kind, and they are generally hated and treated as second class citizens for it. They are akin to the drug-addicts of our world, as they are dependent on mortal blood to sustain themselves, instead of being true undead, which can "live" indefinitely without outside assistance.

tl;dr Vampires are the scum of an undead society.

>>3844750

see

>>3844682

Also, what sort of pansy-ass vampires have you been fighting that you can kill them by hitting them with a car? Are you driving the popemobile?

>what sort of pansy-ass vampires have you been fighting that you can kill them by hitting them with a car?

Not everyone uses the Rifts rules for vampires

Writefag here, I've been inspired but can't think of something to properly start with on this topic. Requests?

>>3844792
Rifts vampires are equally retarded. You can kill them with a squirtgun, and can slay armies of them with a firetruck.

>>3844764
So the undead from Bas Lag.

>>3844764

Interesting idea, but you would need to make vampires less powerful for this to work, as well as make zombies and skeletons sentient.

Liches obviously are at the top of the list, but zombies and skeletons are normally mindless. wraiths and shadows are slightly more intelligent, but are basically just in it for your life force. Wights are usually portrayed as smarter zombies with energy drain, and ghosts and ghouls have normal human intelligence, but traditionally ghosts have a pretty specific agenda. mummys, also, tend to have a place staked out in the desert that they have to take care of.

Only liches, vampires, free range mummys and very few ghosts are both intelligent and capable of choosing their own path. Having vampires be treated like shit in an undead society seems a bit off. The lichs can treat them as inferior, but they feel that way about everyone.

>>3844764
I do rather like how a regular zombie in 4E is overall stronger than a regular vampire.

>>3844764
That's the point of making them blood addicts who develop severe cases of insanity over time. Also degradation: >>3843933
Though we can build on that.
Your idea could work, something like it was suggested earlier. The only problems I can spy are consumption and space. The undead have to live somewhere, and with their ever increasing numbers, they would inevitably encroach upon the humans, thus limiting the vampires food source. The solution would be to have the undead war with each other, but how would the living react to their presence? dicketry
Actually, that could be a fuck awesome campaign setting. Maybe with the undead not giving anyone a choice, if they want you they get. Also lot's of.

I suggest that vampires can only be killed by sunlight and/or powerful holy objects (Handel's handwritten score of Messiah is the base level of holiness).

>>3844830

Only problem with undead society: asking for paladins.

If there is an entire city full of undead out there, you can bet its only a matter of time before you have clerics and paladins en mass climbing up your rotting asshole.

>>3844822
Well, maybe your stereotypical zombie can be replaced with an "awakened."

Awakened are the most common form of undead. They are simply the dead person raised and preserved. They retain full memory, personality and skill. Depending on when they were raised, their bodies may be in various states of decay, so there are often numerous customizations done, including jeweling and tattooing.

An awakened is no stronger than it was when it was alive, but it is no longer affected by the restrictions of mortality. They do not tire and do not require food or drink, making them the perfect stock-breed of undead.

>>3844822
The solution is probably to get rid of pointless speed bump undead like wights... wights, like bugbears and such, are just stronger/weaker versions of other undead or humanoid-type monsters to pad out dungeon levels.

anyway, the main old school concept of a zombie, is the enslaved victim of a necromancer. The modern idea is an infectious monster. Either way, they're not very logical as self willed entities...

I kinda think skeletons are best off as bargain basement mummies.

>>3844795
What about creating a vampire hunter series? A small team, people die and are replaced, going up against the various undead, hunting vampires in a film noir style. Less rip and tear and more who the hell is doing this, we must find out.

>Only problem with undead society: asking for paladins.

I'd be more worried for the paladins than for the undead, depending on what game system you're using.

>>3844860

God, just try imagining an investigation where the skinjobs are involved. All of a sudden your witness becomes 'uncooperative'. The witness skips town on a bus (or so you think). Now your partner looks a little bit under the weather. And he keeps telling you he has to speak to you in private...

>>3844926
That would be fucking awesome. First person perspective.

>>3844854
Remember that old lich thread we had where we discussed a Normandy-like invasion by paladins of an undead continent?

Good times.

>>3844953
I just got a mental image of a lich dressed as a German officer. He even has a monocle which he squints out of.

Picture somewhat related.

How about vampires that make up the nobility of a nation?

They enforce the laws by hunting criminals (drastically reducing the crime rate but spreading terror as the laws become more and more draconian).

They rule by virtue of their "divine blood" which they only bestow to others in strictly-controlled circumstances.

They go to battle in armor so heavy that no human could ever hope to move in. This is not to protect themselves from weapons but to protect themselves from the light.

They're highly territorial and protect what's theirs with an obsessive zeal. Branding of humans is mandatory to show ownership.

They have the minds of mortals, so as they age, they become stranger, more eccentric and eventually criminally insane. The older vampires are placed into iron coffins and thrown into a volcano by their successors.

>>3845106
Brutal.

>>3845164
Needs googly eyes.

We aren't even trying to keep it one campaign setting anymore. I do believe that this thread made vampires relevant antagonists once more.

>>3845106

Fuckin' awesome. Giant swords are pretty common, but hueg armor is rarer.

>>3845274
What about hammers and such? You know, keep the blood from spilling, maybe save it for later.

Maybe we should get /x/ in on this? They probably have something they can contribute.

>>3845392
YES!

Paladin bitten by vampire, manages to kill it but dies in the process. Rises as a vampire himself, and spends the next few years fighting a losing battle as he tries to keep to his oaths and defend the innocent, restraining himself to drinking only the blood of evil men. But it is not a question of if he will break, but when.

Awesome NPC Y/N?

>>3845565
AHA! He's already broken! By drinking the blood of anyone, he is succumbing to cannibalism! Aside from that, he is causing sentient, living beings physical and emotional harm for his own gain. The only possible way for a vampadin to not fall would to only drink the blood of willing targets when absolutely necessary.

>>3845776

Didn't say he hasn't fallen. I assumed he lost the ability to channel holy power as soon as he became undead (since, you know, channeling holy power could kill him in that state. How would you hold your own holy sword?).

He just keeps trying to defend the weak. Even without his powers, he is still a skilled fighter and now a vampire to boot.
But he cant bring himself to take his own life, not while he is still capable of putting himself in between people that need defending and something worse then him.

>>3845822
And slow succumbs to insanity? Almost feeling it fall away? Awesome NPC, if the PCs know the paladin before he goes vamp.

>>3845822

Becomes even more tragic if he worships Pelor, who is both the patron god of humanity (he is no longer human) and the sun god (never gonna see THAT again).

Becomes doubly awesome if he was an assimar in life, and still has daylight 1/day.
If he ever finds a vampire or other day-fearing creature that he can't defeat through arms... neither of them will win.

>>3845837
>>3845915
combined both of these ideas

tl;dr

I was in a creative writing class, and long story short, vampires themselves are not cliche, but you have to consider what makes your vampires unique.

Anyway, I always thought it would be interesting if when a vampire was hit with sunlight they would be overcome with depression, fugue, grief, and torment from all the evil things they have done thus leading to temporary insanity and suicidal/self destructive behavior. Good vampires could still walk in the light. This could be potentially more devastating for older vampires, and conversely newer vampires would not be affected so much.

>>3845915

All paladins should come with a self destruct.

take a look at Libris Mortis for variant vampires

>>3845565

for one thing, how is a vampire paladin a "darker" figure than a normal paladin? Both kill tons of people, both shed blood by the gallon. A killer is a killer.

>>3845975
because paladins are supposed to be paragons of good and law. inb4 4th edition

>>3846044

And your point? Lawful good isn't any less LG, if it suddenly becomes ickygross and scary.

>>3846072
it's all in the reasoning behind the killing, one does it for a god/idea and the other one does it for survival

>>3846044
Also any character that adventures in spite of their slow descent into madness is by definition dark. A paladin that has lost his humanity, everything that tied him to his god, and all of the divine power he used to fight the good fight is just sad.

But if that same paladin still tried to fight for truth and justice, because he is THAT FUCKING DEDICATED that even if his god has abandoned him, he will not abandon the will of his god...
That's just downright cool.

>>3846091

So, what? Suddenly he *stops* killing for his god?

My character eats meat, is every bandit he slays suddenly "for selfish gain" rather than to stop evil?

>>3846109
it's the fact that he is killing people to survive that makes it dark

>>3846143

Who said he's making any new kills?

One evildoer a night, assuming DnD vampires even need that much blood.

Remember, that not every paladin is a PC that goes around slaughtering everything in sight. Some paladins can go YEARS without having to strike someone down, especially if they normally fight only undead or demons.
...
Can you drink the blood of demons? If so, is it a good idea?

>>3846162

Demons don't have blood.

Demons aren't made of flesh and bone.

They're quite literally made of chaos and evil.

>>3846169
demons, devils, and good aligned outsiders still have blood

>>3846194

If they do, it's made of further chaos and evil, not literal blood like what's pumping through your veins.

Let me make this even clearer: In D&D, everything native to the Outer Planes (including the planes themselves), is not made of matter and energy. It is made of alignment.

The sun in the Seven Heavens? Good. Not even "good energy", or "good made to shine like a sun", but a solid manifestation of the concept of Good.

Alrighty then. So against the things paladins fight the most often, our new vampadin can get what he needs out of it.

He might be able to suck up an evildoer a night in a big city, but for how long? How evil do they have to be?
What crime deserves it?

What if he is out in the field, and there just isn't anyone around who really deserves it?

Even a bandit is usually someone trying to get by. Are they evil enough that they deserve to have their blood sucked out? Are they evil at all?

As a fallen paladin, how do you tell?

>>3846209
>>vampadin can get

damnit, meant can't.

>>3846206
someone hasn't read the Fiendish codex 1 & 2 it seems

>>3846215
Planescape tops those two books any day.

>>3846215

Someone doesn't know how D&D's cosmology works.

When a Devil 'bleeds', it's not bleeding cells and plasma, it's just bleeding further lawful evil. A Devil's flesh isn't made of sinew and tissue, it's lawful evil.

This is why *all* Outsiders have alignment subtypes, and will *always* ping as their native alignment, regardless of what they actually are.

A Paladin's Smite affects an evil bandit because he's got a bit of evilstuff inside him. It affects a good demon because that demon is *made* of evilstuff, with a little bit of goodstuff.

>>3844061
Gigga cannons.

>>3846236
but they still bleed and a vampire can still feed off of them

Ok /tg/, let's recap:

Every vampire is very weakened by sunlight, hurt by holy items/magic and are undead. Blood is something every vampire needs, but they won't die from not having it, they will just become more and more like a corpse. Vampirism is adquired how? Mental faculties stay the same, meaning that they will slowly become insane by their thirst or the horrors they commit. Normal vampire powers (super strength, super speed, super agility)?

Shadow vampires are a extremely rare caster-like breed of bloodsuckers who hide in the shadows and are eerily able to shield themselves (albeit for a short time) from the sun, or to shroud in darkness a zone at night (i.e. shut down any artificial light like torches, lamps, etc.)

Chinese-like OCD vampires who have a very tight society affected by normal superstitions because they believe on them, rather than being physically weak to them. I think they show be mobster-like and have one cabal of them in each city, maybe with diferent cultures.

Skin-wearing sick fuckos who are just like serial killers, only with a reason to kill...and vampire powers. Immune to sunlight damage while wearing a skin,and it requieres a very difficult Spot check to even slightly suspect that somebody is wearing your buddy skin, but it rots within few days. These guys should look really fucking scary without a skin, something on the lines of skinless ghouls with protuding fangs.

Don Juan De Ceased style vampires, stylish, charming, smart and narcisistic mother fuckers who drink blood every night to stay lucid and beautiful. Even thought someone may think otherwise, they tend to be nomad and use the "new hot guy in town" image rather than stay in one place for long, since whenever they get a date or go to a party, someone dies. They should get bonuses to CHA, Diplomacy and Bluff while fully fed, otherwise they start to get penalties on those stats and mentally unstable.

Am I doin' it right?

>>3846276

Proof or GTFO.

>>3846276
Depends if it counts as blood. If you slash an ooze, liquid comes out, but it sure as hell ain't blood.

>>3846284

Pretty much.

Also, I'm really glad that the title "Don Juan De Ceased" caught on.

>>
Shadow vampires are a extremely rare caster-like breed of bloodsuckers who hide in the shadows and are eerily able to shield themselves (albeit for a short time) from the sun, or to shroud in darkness a zone at night (i.e. shut down any artificial light like torches, lamps, etc.)

Also implied that they can make shadows eat you, or other terrifying acts of magic.

>> Skin-wearing sick fuckos who are just like serial killers, only with a reason to kill...and vampire powers. Immune to sunlight damage while wearing a skin,and it requieres a very difficult Spot check to even slightly suspect that somebody is wearing your buddy skin, but it rots within few days. These guys should look really fucking scary without a skin, something on the lines of skinless ghouls with protuding fangs.

These guys might also have some means of disposing of bodies that involves negative energy, which might give them a really gross weapon.

>>3846312
>Don Juan De Ceased

It's awesome.

>>3846346
>These guys might also have some means of disposing of bodies that involves negative energy, which might give them a really gross weapon.

Gross how?

>>3846392

Gross as in a touch that rots your flesh away in mere minutes, reducing your to black goo that quickly dries up and turns to dust.

Thing the scarier versions of mummy rot. It would usually be used to get rid of the parts of the body that are not the skin when they take a new skin, as well as their old skin.

>>3846404

Sounds a little bit abusive, but also opens up for new posibilities. What if they need to touch through the skin to make it work, so it would mean ditching their current disguise to kill their target? What if that very touch isolates them from everyone, even their own kind, and this drives them insane?

>>3846445

ANOTHER REASON WHY THEY WEAR THE SKIN! their sense of touch may be duller through it, but they cant have physical contact with anyone else without it.

If taken to extremes, this leads to a toxic vampire that wears the skin of others... just because it wants a hug.

"Please. I'm so tired of being alone."

"Just hold me..."

...

"Your skin feels soft. Its nice. What did you say your name was again?"

>>3846445
how about instead of it being touch have it happen after they finish feeding leaving a sack of flesh

I love you /tg/, you made me love vampires again.

>>3846513
your welcome

>>3846493
like their fang secrete a venom that dissolves everything inside the body leaving the skin intact with only the bite marks made from the feeding

Bump for moar, and checking if it's archived.

>>3846533
fangs

>>3846533
they would then need to drain the body of the mush that was muscles, organs, and bones so they then could wear the skin

>>3846209
The mistake people tend to make about paladins is the "deserves" part. It's not about what a person deserves. Book of Exalted Deeds, if someone can be saved, they should be saved, period. Punishment should only be dealt if it will help them turn away from evil, or if their is no way to save them.

drain the mush through the mouth. Wait for the inside to dry/remaining mush turn to dust.

Use gaseous form to enter the body, then solidify.

There is now no incision, the skin was never cut save for the fangs.

The only thing that could give you away are the eyes.

>>3846533
>>3846583
>>3846404

Should mix all this:

Skinthieves bite the victim, drain the blood, then touch the body, which dissolve everything except the skil, then they drink the disgusting ichor, adquiring some memories of the victim.

With this you can get lonely skinwearing psychos with a severe case of identity disorder each time they feed.

>>3846622
i would have the memories come from the blood myself

OP here:
>>3846493
YES! With magic probably, because it gets kinda weird if it's venom.
>>3846284
I think we should keep the sunlight=death thing. It should be a major weakness of theirs, and the only argument against it is that, if the PC were vampires, it would be inconvenient, which isn't even an issue because it'd be like playing a demon. I also want to hang on to the negatives they get as they grow older, to make sure that there are only a few really powerful/influential/cunning vampires around at any given time, otherwise it would just get ridiculous, as a vamp would only have to wait till he's old enough to be unstoppable. As for blood, it should be an addiction, and powers and life should just be a side benefit to the high they get.

>>3846622
I think it'd be a bit cooler if they worked like spiders.
Bite the victim, which turns the organs to liquid, drink it out, leaving the skins. I think these bastards are the favorite.

>>3846668

Well, as for the numbers of vampires, just think about this: predators fight each other for prey.

SOMEONE ARCHIVE THIS.

First thread archived this month.
ITT: /tg/ gets shit done.

>>3846681

Yes...yes... I even imagine the Chinese vamps having things like hunting parties to kill the other types of vampires on their turf, the shadow guys just fucking the shit out of whoever gets on their way, two charmy ones going after the same prey and killing each other out of jealousy and the skinwearers trying to hunt one of the chinese ones to fit in.

If power is a benefit of age, age should be a benefit of cunning. All the greatest villains are great because they're cunning, not because they're powerful. Take the Joker for instance. Incompetent vampires get offed by the other vampires or vamp hunters, or simply starve. The competent ones survive, making the small number of vampires remaining even more dangerous than if they all survived, because they'll find you before you find them.

>>3845959
>>3845565
>>3845822
>>3845915
>>3844860
These. I shall make these a reality. I swear it by the Emprah. Just not right now because I am high.

>>3846727
Don Juan De Ceaseds should compete in a gentlemanly fashion, simply because they're more about finesse and veneer. If anything, there should be a duel, though more likely it would be a contest of seduction.

Don Juan seduces PC's spouse/significant other, they run off, PC hears of their ex's death. Maybe investigates, maybe doesn't give a fuck.

>>3846768
High on blood you fucking skinwalker. Hey! I found a name for the skin creeps!

Don Juan de Ceased tries to seduce a maiden that is actually a skinwalker in disguise.

Hilarity ensues.

>>3846844
This one, too

have the skin creeps main food supply be homeless people

for the Chinese-like OCD vampires it would be a group of families dedicated to serving them

the Shadow vampires would feed from anyone that they feel like

>223 posts and 19 image replies omitted

nice

OP here:
Can't help but feel that we really got shit done. Good work people! Let's do this again sometime.