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  • File :1235231297.jpg-(107 KB, 600x600, 1235091907439.jpg)
    107 KB Server Crash Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)10:48 No.3777665  
    New thread. Still about crunch.

    I'll open about Humanity-Integrity balance. Here's what we got:

    - Harder to infect by viruses.
    - Looks mostly human.
    - Better communication skills and charisma, coming from the above point.
    - No random difficulties with firewalls and such. And when I say random, I mean that they suddenly can't pass them even if they should: If the wall's specifically meant to leave them outside, it doesn't count as "random" if they can't pass it.
    - Can eat, drink, reproduce, and do all other kind of normal human stuff, just like in the Fleshworld.

    - Many abilities, especially the high-level kind that require a good knowledge of the Internet, have higher chance of working and are more powerful in general.
    - Can communicate easier with cybers and tame viruses, that tend to hold humans in fairly high contempt. So a virus rider must choose between a good protection against his pets, and better ability of taming them and keeping them loyal.
    - Healing critical wounds and death always increases integrity, but minor injuries usually won't.
    - Looks badass. Like, metal limbs and stuff. Totally cool!

    What do you think? Does this need any balancing, or is it missing something critical? Anything you'd like to add?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)10:56 No.3777672
    >So a virus rider must choose between a good protection against his pets, and better ability of taming them and keeping them loyal.

    I thought it was decided that viruses hated any humans and would turn on the riders should any opportunity arise.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:02 No.3777682
    Yes, but if you have more Integrity, you're less human, and they therefore get a bit confused of what you really are, making them a tad more reluctant to kill you off.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:04 No.3777684
    Can someone post a link to the other archived threads?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:06 No.3777689
    Virii are like animals and thus not very smart, if you're below a certain treshold of humanity they can even recognize you as one of them and act accordingly.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:08 No.3777696
    Here you are, archived and in order.
    >> Weblord 02/21/09(Sat)11:20 No.3777707
    So how about those Lurkers and their inability to wear heavy armor (as in, firewalls)? How would this be explained?

    And no, I won't have a character sneaking past an Old unnoticed while wearing a giant power armor!
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:22 No.3777708

    Although that would depend on the type of virus, surely? Yes, a human targetting virus wouldn't attack, but what about one that goes after other types of advanced code? Virii live to corrupt data. Everything, from the forts, to the weapons to highly intergrated humans is made of coded data.

    It's just that highly intergrated folk are much, much better at making the cages and leashes on viruses secure, so they can hold small and stupid viruses safely and even go after big beasty ones with more success.
    >> Weblord 02/21/09(Sat)11:30 No.3777721
    Still. Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages for a virus herder, making it an unique class in this sense. He'll have to choose either better protection or better tools, while both of his forms would attract different kinds of enemies.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:50 No.3777750
    So, what, would Virii reaction to a player be based on "alignment" so to speak? Since it seems Humanity is what we're using as alignment, or at least one axis of it.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:53 No.3777764
    I don't think alignment and humanity are even close to each other - this game doesn't even have an alignment, because that's silly - but essentially, yes. Some virii are specialized on humans, others like more integrated prey. It'll be easier to tame them and work with them if you don't belong to their food chain.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:55 No.3777769
    What if we had two types of Defense stats? We could have Bandwith, and then a rating of *active* defense measures. Bandwith soaks large attacks/(physical damage?), but that's not the kind of attack a hacker would use against somebody. They'd attack through one "point," so to speak, and try to navigate past a PC's defenses, only attempting to do actual damage until they've breached far enough to be effective.

    Perhaps it wouldn't even be used for attacks; maybe Firewall/active defense measures are used as Saves against status effects, which Hackers specialize in casting?

    Sorry if this has been said before, I just caught onto these threads today.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:57 No.3777778
    A higher integrity also means higher 'health'.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:57 No.3777779
    Bandwidth is pretty much equivalent to your speed and initiative: The bigger bandwidth, the faster you are, and the better you can react to things. Firewall is your armor, and it hinders spellcasting, as said before, which makes a nice good explanation for "No heavily armored wizards durr".
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)11:58 No.3777783
    In general terms, yes, but there would be weapons and attacks available that'd be less effective against humans than other targets. Against such weapons, a high humanity would be better.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:03 No.3777800
    Maybe. But right now the maximum level of Corruption you can have before you're too corrupted to function is [(Integration)+(Capacity)x(Level)x2].
    I'd also like to remind folks that Humanity was dropped as a stat. It's just high Integration and low Integration.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:10 No.3777838
    How is integration corruption? By going against human's original coding, perhaps? Adding stuff and "modding" your "official" programming has a higher and higher chance of glitching?

    Also, would there be a separate stat for you gradually leaving humanity behind mentally, starting to regard them as inferior and going insane and stuff, as was discussed before? Or would this just be something DM and the player decides by himself?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:13 No.3777856
    I thought it had a higher chance of corruption because it draws the Dark Internet's attention to you and makes you more susceptible to DRIVING YOU AGAINST HUMANITY. And stuff.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:16 No.3777877
    Interesting, because one'd think with all kinds of various code in their system, one'd think high Integration characters would be more prone to corruption (unless the high Integration is caused by a lot of firewalls, which obviously benefit more than they harm. )

    Perhaps Integration could determine how many skills you can take, but also would make you more prone to Corruption, so you can take a shitload of offensive skills and ending up being a glass cannon, take a lot of Firewalls and become a tank (until monsters that can ignore firewalls pop up!) or just take fewer skills and stand middle ground.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:17 No.3777884
    Nah, it's just what comes naturally when you start to understand too much of your enviroment. If you could see the entire universe, how big it is and how significant humans are compared to it, you'd start to get a bit nutty yourself.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:17 No.3777888
         File :1235236669.jpg-(17 KB, 196x194, Diaboromon.jpg)
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    I'm trying to find THE PROGRAMMER.
    Don't interfer.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:22 No.3777909
    Hmmm. So does that still mean they go "Pathetic vermin"? I just got a bit confused because I'm sure there was a story where someone got too integrated and got corrupted by the Dark God or something.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:23 No.3777919
    It's possible that you'll get corrupted as well. Too high integration has many risks for your mental health.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:24 No.3777924
    Go eat a magnet
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:26 No.3777929
    >Perhaps Integration could determine how many skills you can take...

    I'm kind of wary about that, only because I don't want it to lead to players only choosing one cookie-cutter character or another due to the fact that it's more beneficial to have Integration at 0% or 100% than to keep it anywhere in-between.

    I think lumping character concepts into "Low Int" and "High Int" is a bad idea, because it leads to "If you want to nuke, take Int, if you want to tank, drop int."

    I feel Integration is something players should be trying to keep in balance instead. So perhaps Integration grants you access to different kinds of skills, not just more from the same pool.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:27 No.3777934
    How do you get integration anyway, apart from getting hurt real badly?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:28 No.3777942
    what you need is a second axis, just like chaos/law vs good/evil in d&d.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:29 No.3777945
    Dunno about the mechanic exactly, but from the sounds of things gaining integration is largely voluntary.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:32 No.3777961
    Aside from getting hurt badly and then cured, there would be certain kinds of add-ons and implants available to your code. Those would cause integration.

    But other than sticking that stuff into you, or getting cured, it's not very voluntary really.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:33 No.3777970
    linear vs parallel, perhaps?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:36 No.3777985
    Well that's what I meant by "voluntary" - you can speed along the process if you like.

    As for "alignment" axes, I kind of agree with the sentiment that they usually cause shit. But we could use one in development, I guess.

    Why don't we throw out some character concepts that would be pretty staple in the system, and then decide where their differences lie aside from Integration level? I think some of us have already a got an idea of what the game is like in our heads - we've just got to reverse engineer that.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:36 No.3777986
    Have we gone by the physical model of integration then? A pity. I liked the idea it was more mental than physical. You choose to leave behind your identity as "Human", recognizing your code-entity side more and more, until being completely overcome by it at max integration.
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    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:47 No.3778040
    >Well that's what I meant by "voluntary" - you can speed along the process if you like.

    To compensate, there'd be some equipment that you can only use while human, and stops working when you're too integrated. Somehow.

    It's both. When you get hurt critically, more often than not healing it will integrate you physically - unless you're hurt REALLY badly, or temporarily died, in which case it'd also be mental. The add-ons and stuff would integrate either physically or mentally, depending on their function and what part of your code they change.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:48 No.3778044
    Well in this setting mental effects are quite likely to effect the physical.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)12:53 No.3778062
    >There'd be some equipment that you can only use while human, and stops working when you're too integrated. Somehow.
    That makes sense. A lot of old tech lacking a lot of the "integration" and safety constraints we use today just isn't compatible anymore. Ever try to play games like Quake or AoE2 these days? Doesn't happen: firewalls, routers and antivirus detect that it's just too full of holes.

    Much in the same way, Humans could have tech that's simple and robust - it's a lot more easily manipulated by hackers, but since it's not integrated into you, it doesn't do as much damage to you when they do.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)13:15 No.3778134
    What Integration has been defined as is "the closer you are to pure code." The idea is that with low Integration you're less part of the internet and more that vague idea of a human mind and soul trapped INSIDE code. With higher Integration, you lose that part of yourself and become more concretely part of this new reality. However, maximum Integration (which would be at 10) means that you are literally part of the 'net and your character dissolves into background data. A sort of, "I can see forever, it's full of bits" thing. So one must balance that risk with the risk of a lower health.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)13:16 No.3778142
    There's a wiki, you know.
    Some of you are talking like you don't know.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)13:21 No.3778159
    Beginning to sound a little NETSPHERE in here
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)13:33 No.3778220
    If you do go full code, what are the chances it could backfire on your party?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)13:47 No.3778292
    I like to think it as;
    0% integration - Normal world cat, tree or human. No foreign data.
    10% integration - cat with a human arm. Or cat that can do antivirus scans. Or cat with an inbuilt compiler.
    30% to 70% - Standard adventurer. Higher integration means you look less and less human and more chimeric, but you are also more in tune with your "grafts". Higher your integrity is, the more you gain penalties mentioned in this thread.
    90% - Humans can't keep their sanity at this level and usually start falling apart. Inner Ring Cybers are at this level and look like Lovecraftian horrors due to the variety of data composing them (They have data/properties of a plane, and a T-rex, and a virus, and a firewall, and humans, and whales and...)
    100% - Background data. A chaotic mix of random programs with no semblance of organization. Retaining sentience or even a functional body is impossible, 100% integrated characters turn back into raw data.
    >> Weblord 02/21/09(Sat)13:53 No.3778321
    Integration tells how much foreign code there is in human body. I've never actually thought it this way, but this actually counts. Very good job.

    Of course, Internet stuff would still integrate you far more than animals, because they're built of completely different blocks, and in some sense come from a different universe than us. Animals are still flesh, just like humans - it's just built in a different way.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)13:54 No.3778329
    Fuck, I can't wait for this to be completed.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)13:57 No.3778338
    100% would be technically impossible, because at 90% or somewhere, as you said, you'll fall apart due to conflicting data. But if you do manage to get to one hundred, it'dn't necessarily be all that bad thing: It would just mean that all that was human has left you. It doesn't necessarily mean that you become background data: You might as well turn into a cyber or an AI. Regardless of what you become, however, there's no human parts left to conflict with, and you'll have fully stable code once more.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:00 No.3778355
    Well looking at >>3778292 you could turn into a Cyber or rogue AI that the group has to kill. That's actually a good idea for a story. If I would write I would write it.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:06 No.3778378
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    Integration isn't random bits of code you've injected into yourself. It's literally how program-like you are. At 9 Integration (or 90%, whatever) you don't "have data/properties of a plane, and a T-rex, and a virus, and a firewall, and humans, and whales," you are just leaving the code trying to simulate the feelings, habits (like breathing, eating, and fornication), and ways of thinking humans possess. You're less human and more Data. Pic related, it's a human at 8 Integration.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:10 No.3778400
    Speaking of Data could you become LESS integrated and more human or does it only one way, once you get integrated there's no coming back?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:11 No.3778407
    Fair enough.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:13 No.3778411
    There's less potential for abuse and it's far more GRIMDARK if it's a one-way track.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:14 No.3778412

    We should just say that AIs have a massive resistance to integration/de-integration. They permanently sit at 9 or 8, depending on the situation.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:16 No.3778424
    It would be possible, if difficult. If we can still produce children, which would have fully human code, then we should be able to fix ourselves as well.

    We could also take code from other people, technically, either voluntarily or by force. It could be a character skill.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:18 No.3778432
    Non-human intelligences don't have an integration stat.
    >> Weblord 02/21/09(Sat)14:19 No.3778433
    This setting is a combination of GRIMDARK and HIGH ADVENTURE. Plus, as >>3778424 said, it'd be more logical if you could go back, and I'm a big fan of logic.

    But I agree that it should be much harder to become more human than to integrate.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:20 No.3778436
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:23 No.3778448
    Aren't everybody data, and aren't anyone not fully aware of it pretty much dead? Integration could be how many programs you have loaded on yourself, it is to the same effect. You end up becoming less human as you throw out your human data and add data of other things like antivirii and firewalls.

    Though, recognizing that you are just data shouldn't do anything significant, given that many places should still emulate human bodies as true to life as possible - so they do bleed and die and breed, and places that don't emulate it are generally highly hostile to adventurers (as there are places where conventional logic starts to break down. )
    >> Weblord 02/21/09(Sat)14:30 No.3778470
    Humans are data just as much as everything else, but we are very different from the other Internet lifeforms. We're originally made from entirely different components, and that should show in our programming as well. When you introduce new data to our bodies, something that's so crucially different, it's bound to cause all kind of problems.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:31 No.3778474
    I think the path we're going to if you fully realize you're just data and go too close or even fully integrated you suddenly go "Fuck my existence, I'm just going to go disperse into beautiful data! Bye sentience!"
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:34 No.3778486
    Everyone's data.
    This is just the removal of certain data that you consider useless.
    Appearance? Who needs an appearance on the internet? What is the point of appearing as anything but code, for that is all that we are?

    Integration 1 looks very human indeed - human from today.
    Integration 5 looks unnatural, artificial and fake - Data from Star Trek.
    Integration 10 is little more than a body of data. Cortana from Halo, except more formless and less detailed.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:34 No.3778487
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:37 No.3778497
    >Appearance? Who needs an appearance on the internet? What is the point of appearing as anything but code, for that is all that we are?

    This way of thinking is very non-human in itself. No matter where we are, or if it really doesn't matter, humans love to look like humans.

    You're quite a bit integrated yourself, aren't you? Try not to dissolve into pure data, all right? Hang in there,
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:43 No.3778523

    Heh. I've just worked out how you can get a Dark God of the Internet - the worst 100% intergration humans kiss goodbye to their sentience and get absorbed into the mass of data that is the rest of the net. The toxic memories and personalities are not destroyed but dispersed. Then one day a particularly advanced cyber, an AI, a virus, a demented Coder or even a Googlebot webpage crawler gets it into its head to start collecting all these bits and adding them to itself...
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:45 No.3778532
    >No matter where we are, or if it really doesn't matter, humans love to look like humans.

    Speak for yourself.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:47 No.3778545
    Eh.... I think I prefer the Frankenstein back story. However that's be a good idea for the creation of a partically nasty Cyber... one with still a glimmer of sentience which somehow makes it even worse....
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:47 No.3778549
    We're pretty prejudiced against everything new. It'll be a long time after the Crash, when people who don't look like humans are fully accepted to our society. Especially at the beginning, those who look different may think of themselves as monsters. I don't think there'd be too many, at least right off the bat, who'd voluntarily give away their humanity.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:47 No.3778550
    I was displaying that form of thinking.

    Anyway, maximum Integration basically means you become unplayable.
    You think one of two things:
    "The trait that sentients call 'humanity' is useless. There is no need for it. It Why don't your fellow sentients realize this? Perhaps... Perhaps they are corrupt.
    "That is the only way.
    "Corrupt data must be eliminated."
    "The Internets is perfection. We were brought here to unite with it and become a part of its beauty. Let your sentience leave you. Come with me and let us disintegrate and become one with the Internets!"
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:51 No.3778567
    Which one is it?
    - We turn insane and basically become Cybers.
    - We disintegrate and become one with the Internets.

    Which one is it?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:51 No.3778568
    I'm sure /tg/ provides a varied and insightful subsection on the value of appearance in human (sub-)cultures.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)14:57 No.3778589
    By one with the internet, which one? Or all of them, in a weird sort of way?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:01 No.3778601
    They become completely disembodied data, just floating around uselessly on the internet.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:02 No.3778610
    So just waiting to be used/OMNOMNOMED? Well I guess they don't care since they lose sentence.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:05 No.3778615
    I am loving how these threads are coming along, it completely beautiful to see a homebrew get this much attention and work

    I am also pleased to see my idea for the name was used. Fills me with a little bubble of joy. That is all, keep up the good work gentlemen.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:07 No.3778623
    In this case, they're 100% integrated with the Internet. You can't tell the difference between the data that once formed a person and the Internet. It's like a person becoming air.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:14 No.3778644
    When we have lost the evolutionary reason to keep the appearance we can focus on functionality instead. So instead to look human; a product that was tied to the fleshworld, we instead can become a sentient being adapted for the internet. Intimidation/size/expressions with human are all useless here. So we need new ways to express us.

    A frightful appearance on the internet that displays your power level would probably somewhere along the lines of a effective piece of programming that has invisible roots everywhere like with a botnet. The controller of the huge botnet would probably look like a normal human. But when intimidated/frightened he could suddenly display his long connections to his bots that he has hidden previously.

    Different entities would have different ways of showing they are intimidated. This would depend on the class and ways of attacking. The ability to scan and analyze that some classes are described here could probably be used to intimidate of needed. I assume that in a conflict, showing the enemies code weakness in a reflection to him would seem like a good way to intimidate him and to avoid conflict
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:26 No.3778688
    We become one with the internet.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:29 No.3778707
    It certainly would lead to weird beginnings for barfights.

    "You looking at me, punk?"

    "Here is the exact amount of artificial alcohol you have drank, what you have drank and how it is affecting you, how much it has slowed you reaction time and the exact amount of programs I could set on you before you could bring your defenses up."
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:29 No.3778711
    Or we become monsters. It's pretty much random.

    But here's an idea: Some people, buddhist monks and such, seek enlightenment and becoming one with the universe. Could they do so in the Internet? Furthermore, being all wise and elightened and all-knowing, would it be even theoretically possible for them, or anyone, to maintain general human form even after reaching 100%? Like, you'd be one with the Internet, and dissolved code, and stuff, but you'd still have full control of yourself, and could look like a human if you so wanted?

    Or am I just being silly?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:31 No.3778717
    That's pretty silly. The basis behind your 'becoming one' is that you've complete lost that which makes you human. At 9 you're little more than a human-like AI. At 10 you're just pure code, ready to be shaped and ripped and recycled by whoever needs it.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:32 No.3778718
    Neo.. he's The ONE!
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:33 No.3778720
    Then ignore that. Still, all those monks need to readjust their views of the universe a bit.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:33 No.3778721
    Nah, we decided if you FULLY integrate you just don't have sentience any more. You just want to be code and join this wondrous place.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:37 No.3778741
    There was some talk about probers (IIRC) being able to retain much of their human-like functionality even at high integration levels, perhaps through understanding of the fact that they never really lost anything - they were data entities rather than meat all along, so any humanity they displayed was fake from the beginning.

    It still wouldn't help at the full 100%, which would result in dissolution.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:38 No.3778747
    It would be a flavorful idea for a cult, though. It recruits members for mass ritualistic Integration.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:39 No.3778758
    I still think that with all the detail and fluff they've received, and the uniqueness of the concept, Probers would deserve their place as one of the basic classes.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:42 No.3778763
    That would indeed be awkward, but most of that looks like internal monologue.

    Depending on the ""You looking at me, punk?" punk party the scanner could use this information in a different way that he could understand. Lets assume this is a brute force type. The scanner could probably just flash a small piece of his weakness. Not sure how you could insult/intimidate a barbarian in normal terms so I leave that to your imagination. Language in internet terms would probably be more massive. This would probably be something like: ...static data.........."part of attacking program data displayed" ................More static data.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:43 No.3778764
    Probing is now a skill tree. A Prober is just someone with a different class who invested a lot into the Probing tree.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)15:46 No.3778783
    I think Probers could be a valid class if they did something more unique than "Hacker, but of servers". Maybe because they hack the servers themselves instead of the websites, they're able to change the landscape? Geomancers with kooky powers.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:06 No.3778868
    Didn't we already make a cult? Wanted to kill humanity? Could be something they'd do.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:09 No.3778893
    They'd seek for ultimate power through integration. Research, recruitment, and other assorted cult stuff, until one day, they will do the ultimate ritual!

    This could be an early campaign for player characters: Their job would be to stop them from completing the ritual, which would give them enough power to wipe out mankind.

    The catch is, of course, that they'd just dissolve to the web and that'd be that. No one knows this in advance, of course, except for DM.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:12 No.3778906
    To use another way of putting it, Probers... are kinda like WoW shamans? Calling on the elements and whatnot?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:13 No.3778916

    Getting a distinct Monolith "Stalker" vibe.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:21 No.3778981
    What, you mean the Dark God cult? Eh. It'd be a step up for them. They were meant to be just loonies who tried to gain affection of a god that hated them. Although I guess leaving behind their human origins does fit...
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:39 No.3779175
    So we seem to be settled on full integration meaning that the victim becomes one with the Internet and ceases to exist as a being.

    Still, I think it would be awesome for people to have the possibility of becoming purely logical psychopaths who seek to eliminate those who still possess their humanity, considering them 'corrupt data'.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:41 No.3779202
    >So we seem to be settled on full integration meaning that the victim becomes one with the Internet and ceases to exist as a being.

    I think we always agreed in this, even at the beginning.

    >Still, I think it would be awesome for people to have the possibility of becoming purely logical psychopaths who seek to eliminate those who still possess their humanity, considering them 'corrupt data'.

    This would be at stage 8 or 9. Unless you've somehow managed to avoid most of the madness.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:44 No.3779241
    Not really.
    IRC folk considered full integration as turning you into a monster.
    Anyway, no - only full integration should have such massive effects.
    If remotely high integration turns you into an unplayable monster, that's just overkill.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:48 No.3779283
    >If remotely high integration turns you into an unplayable monster, that's just overkill.

    Not unplayable, just very different from what they started with.

    And full integration might turn you into a monster. Or data stream. For now, it's more or less random, unless someone can come up with a good argument of how it's defined.

    It would give the campaign of >>3778893 a nice twist, though, if some of the cultists suddenly turned into monsters instead of simply dissolving.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:51 No.3779313
    Imagine the reactions.
    "Oh what a bunch of fools. Oh well let's see if we can find anything to looOHGODWHATTHEHELLISTHATGETITAWAY!"
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:56 No.3779382
    Uh, no. Yesterday when we did the massive crunch fest, it was agreed in IRC that Integration means you become one with the 'net.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:57 No.3779393
    It's been clearly defined for a while now.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)16:59 No.3779417
    It's a good campaign twist, but it shouldn't be the norm.
    >> No Man 02/21/09(Sat)17:00 No.3779436

    OP: I saved you picture as 'virus detected.'
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)17:32 No.3779697
    What's that shadowy figure on the left, the one with three red eyes? An Old?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)17:35 No.3779726
         File :1235255755.png-(743 KB, 1745x1400, SUPERB.png)
    743 KB
    Ahem, for the more weaboo-inclined, Intergration sounds a lot like the concept of becoming a demon in the manga Claymore.
    It's a world where women volunteer to become half-human, half-demon hybrids to fight other demons. The more they lose their humanity, the stronger they become. However, if they go too far, they become demons themselves.
    The group of protagonists manage to return from 100%, but they become outcasts from their organization and now have to fight both their former allies and the demons.

    tl;dr Claymore - read it for campaign ideas.
    >> TIRED DRAWFAG 02/21/09(Sat)17:54 No.3779831

    I reckon so

    three red eyes is the constant in their designs
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)17:58 No.3779857
    Fun fact: The picture was randomly generated by a program that combines pictures it gets off Google image search.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)18:06 No.3779895
    Really? Ha. Amazing how the human mind can look into these things.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)18:52 No.3780247
    /b/arbarians would play that field more often than any other.

    The wiki seems to lack them and surfers.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)20:00 No.3780658
    /b/arbarians aren't really a class, from what I've seen. They're more like the standard orcish horde, only this time around the orcish homeland was eaten by Cthulu
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)20:16 No.3780765
    Surfers were just Lurkers without as much combat ability.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)21:38 No.3781224
    Also the Orcish Horde has a number of relics they want to find.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)21:44 No.3781262
    This thread is dead and it makes me sad. There's a crunch-focused IRC channel on suptg (#Servercrash) and we can get ideas for the crunch with the fluff that could be provided. This is now a fluff thread.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)21:47 No.3781293
    I just had a quick look at the 1d4chan page and why is there near to no expanding on the monsters? The curses, the cybers, the olds and all the others? If I weren't lazy I'd do it myself.
    >> TIRED DRAWFAG 02/21/09(Sat)21:48 No.3781302

    whats the name of said program?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)22:06 No.3781427
    Here's a thought.

    If you're on the net, the smallest unit of measurable time would be ping, wouldn't it? Instead of a turn being five seconds, it would be five pings, let's say.

    Ping varies from server to server, doesn't it? Wouldn't that mean that one could essentially time travel or go into one of those slow-time training rooms like in Dragonball Z?
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)22:13 No.3781479
    Wait what. This sounds interesting. Expand and explain.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)22:22 No.3781550

    Let's say server A has a ping of 100 milliseconds
    Let's say you have a little brother who is on server A.
    Since you're on the net, one ping is basically the same as one Planck time. Information could not be communicated any faster than one ping.
    You head to server B.
    Server B has a ping of 10000 milliseconds. Let's say you spent 10000 pings on server B. Time would have felt like it passed normally for you, but you were going at 1/100 of the rate of everyone on server A because of the difference in ping. You spent 10000 turns on B, but everyone on A spent 1000000 turns. If you went to server C, which has a ping of 1 millisecond, you could have spent 100 turns in the time it takes server A to make one.
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)22:30 No.3781594
    This... sounds interesting. It'd be great for campaign ideas. HOWEVER... most of the net should share the same ping or around about the same so you can do a quest and return to get your reward before the guy dies. But it could lead to interesting twists in some campaigns and discoveries of civilization on the net who had time to rise and fall even early on in the fall...
    >> Anonymous 02/21/09(Sat)23:53 No.3782201
    Since the Internet became sentient, I'm thinking that it'd've standardized all that stuff, making your point fairly moot. But it would've been fairly interesting.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:09 No.3782309
    It has? Why wasn't I given the memo?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:17 No.3782375
    lol I dunno
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:18 No.3782390
    Nah, I like this idea. Most of it should be standardized but there would be some site in the corner of the internet...
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:22 No.3782425
    Not much, though.

    Also, speaking of integration, thread 5 should be mandatory read: Plenty of awesome ideas there that have been forgotten since.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:23 No.3782434
    Uh, a ping is a measure of how much time it takes for data to move from one point to the other. If a server has a slow ping, that just means getting to it is hard.
    The passage of time would be perceived as cycles per second, which could vary, but is most likely standardized.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:26 No.3782449
    Expanding on that:
    In the world of Server Crash, the human players aren't "based" in a single computer and exploring the net by sending and receiving data (as we are). They ARE data, and physically move across the internet from server to server.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:28 No.3782472
    So no "Ages has taken place during your exploration into that site! Everyone you know is dead!" twists?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:30 No.3782482
    Nope. Sorry.

    Also thread isn't archived yet.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:31 No.3782493
    Eh, we usually archive them when it's time to evacuate.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:34 No.3782510

    Eh, could open the thread to fluff and let it fill out.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:37 No.3782556
    Nah, I still think we should at least finish the crunch with characters and skills first. And some kind of a basic combat system.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:38 No.3782568
    Didn't we already agree to open the thread to fluff?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:39 No.3782573
    Have the guys over at IRC made any more progress on that stuff?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:40 No.3782578

    I don't care too much really. It's one of those things I like to tinker with because I think I'M HELPING I'M HELPING I'M HELPING YOUUU
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:41 No.3782587
    The place is empty.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:43 No.3782603
    Is it? Well I guess fluff and Crunch can be done. I'd contribute by writing some fluff but I'm damn tired now. Keep the ball rolling.
    >> Erik 02/22/09(Sun)00:46 No.3782631

    Here's some crunch. Please add to it as you see fit, I've saved it so if it gets FUBARed I'll just load my backup.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:52 No.3782660
    Well, you could have a guy attempt to get into a server despite all the warnings that the connection is poor, and have him take a week to get there.
    So yeah, time could be variable when you take an external link. But that's more along the lines of "DAAAD, ARE WE THERE YET?" than "ZOMG TIEM PARADOX".
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:54 No.3782681
    So... wait. Are we designing a class based game or a more free-form point-buy system?

    I mean, why is a prober no longer a class, but a lurker is?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:56 No.3782695
    Point-buy. We're just talking about classes because it's easy and simple.

    Probing is a skill tree. I dunno why it's not an actual class, but at least it's there.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)00:57 No.3782704
    Because personally, I thought we were just 'classifying' characters, as opposed to creating classes... if that makes sense.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)01:38 No.3783040
    More or less. Now we just need someone to do something.

    And I'd still argue about prober being a class.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)02:39 No.3783516
    A single mechanical eyeball stared at him. It blinked and furrowed what appeared to be an eyebrow. It's long cylinder neck swayed back and forth. Two little arms jutting out of the tube neck made a crude steeple.

    A distinct mechanical voice spoke. "What is the particular logic of this game. What is the objective."

    Reg responded in an unsure manner. "Well, you run a dungeon and attempt to repel invaders that are constantly trying to defeat you, because you are evil. It's a bit like Simcity."

    The eyeball widened in shock and recoiled a bit. One of the little mechanical arms came to rest on the lower part the eyeball as it assumed a contemplative posture.

    The machine spoked again. "Evil. Selfish behavior detrimental to the group. Why would I find this game fun? It seems like it would only foster negative concepts."

    Reg sighed a little bit. "It's just a game where you get to experience the other side of the coin without needing to actually do unpleasant things or suffer consequences.”

    The eyeball seemed to accept the response and became a bit less agitated. It blinked a few times and nodded.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)02:39 No.3783520
    The voice crackled. "I will try this game because you say it is fun. Being evil does not seem like it will be very effective overall strategy and will most likely result in the destruction of my pieces, though."

    Reg sighed again. "Just try it. If you don't like it you don't have to play it. I thought you might want to since you only seem to like strategy games and you've played nearly all of them."

    The eyeball stopped mid-blink and spoke again, apparently taking some small offense. "I enjoy other games not focusing on strategy."

    Reg smiled, knowing WOPR didn't play anything anything but strategy games. He leaned back in his chair smugly, arms folded. "Like what?"

    The machine didn't respond immediately. "..I played a game called 'Baldur's Gate'. The game concept was foreign and revolved around 'role play'. I attempted to 'role play' an AI that liked strategy but it was not entirely effective."

    Reg smiled and nodded, yielding his argument.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)02:43 No.3783553
    I'm going to breathe life into the thread by looting a couple of ideas from thread 5, good ideas that were for a reason or another forgotten.

    First of all, antihuman weapons. It makes sense that some stuff would deal more damage to you the more you're integrated, since there's plenty of weapons out there designed against viruses and cybers. (Or viruses at least, since they probably were a threat to cybers even before humans arrived. So cybers had weapons against viruses.) But a while after humans arrived, there would be forces, either cybers or evil human cults, who'd design weapons specifically designed against human code. They'd be less effective if you're more integrated.

    Also, high probing skill gives resistance against integration. If your integration level is 9, but your resistance is 5, it'd bump the harmful effects of your integration all the way down to level 4.

    Also, here's an idea of my own: Earlier in this thread, it was proposed that you'd be able to become more human as well, deleting some integration, although this'd be significantly more difficult. So could you do the same for viruses, AIs, or cybers? Y'know, making them more human? Would they dissolve into data when they'd have 100% human code?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)03:40 No.3784058
    The thing is, no matter how difficult getting back to human would be, it'd give the players the annoying ability of going all the way up and down again with no repercussions, which might get tedious. When a higher integration would be needed, they could just go for it without thinking, because they could always remove them afterwards. Therefore, I'm suggesting that there'd be always a little bit of integration that's permanent: Your code simply can't entirely take all that altering back and forth, no matter what. It just might cause some unforeseen damage.

    Low levels could be removed without any bad things: When your integration is level 3, you can remove them all the way back to zero. But when it goes to 4, there'd be one permanent level, meaning that it could never go beyond 1 again. There'd be one more permanent integration at levels 6 and 8, and two at level 9. Taking too much integration would corrupt some of your human code permanently, preventing you from returning all the way.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)04:25 No.3784511
    Integration needs more risks. Because otherwise it doesn't matter, and everyone wants to do it: It brings amazing power, and as long as you can stay away from full integration, you're more or less fine. This needs to be fixed.

    The first three levels would be just physical stuff: Cool cyber limbs and eyes that'd give you nice bonuses, and some minor add-ons to your core data. But from level four, it'd start to add some horrible side effects along with all the power.

    When you gain level 4, make a resolution roll:

    If you fail, bad things happen. And from that point on, each subsequent integration level forces an additional resolution roll, with bigger and bigger penalties, and with nastier stuff happening if you fail.

    ...Yeah, when I play this, I'm going to stay as human as possible. Why do you ask?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)06:04 No.3785357
    It boggles me how this hasn't been archived yet.

    I like. Would high level probing protect you from these side effects too?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)06:51 No.3785675
    An integration related idea

    We've only got sparse details from before the fall in the threads, but it stands to reason, if we have /b/tards sitting in life couches, never leaving the nets, and full virtual reality, some crazy fuckers will have gone cyborg to some degree- look at the bodymod community, and then chuck in transhumanism for a laugh.

    Everyone who did was lost in the Fall. Some people have a theory that, because they weren't 100% human anyway, and aspired to leave behind human, they integrated almost instantly, leaving the little humanity they had left as soon as the option was available to them.

    But you hear stories. Of lonely travellers, lost and harried and near to death, weary and exhausted and quite possibly mad, being saved from the jaws of death by... something. Beings from the serverside, machine angels or swarms of dust, rising from ripples in the code and fighting. and then, vanishing.

    Most people dismiss these stories as fairytales, the mad ravings of demented beggars and washed up heroes.

    But some believe. That not all those not-so-humans were lost. That perhaps, one or two, or more, survived going serverside. and perhaps they're fighting. maybe they're even winning. Or maybe they don't exist at all. We'll never know.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)06:53 No.3785694
    Data ghosts. Obviously. May be good or bad thing.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)07:18 No.3785843
    Max integration idea:

    When you reach maximum integration, you lose your ego and sense of self preservation. Inexorably your mind is drawn to collectivism, to a great hive-mind. You are not a person anymore - you're just another part of a great hive-mind.

    What happens inside of it? Who knows.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)07:21 No.3785852

    I don't think there should be a single thing which happens when you hit max integration. Its vague, variable, and hard to predict. As you lose your humanity, perhaps you become a ravening cyber, or melt into the background, or ascend to join a hive mind, or become another data-ghost. Who knows, maybe something completely different will happen.

    Uncertain death is rather more worrying that bog standard certain death.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)08:21 No.3786132
    You might start to show hive-mindish tendencies at integration of 8 or 9. Roll for resolution.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)08:24 No.3786142
    Tendencies? Like what? I thought hivemind was kinda an all-or-nothing thing... you either are hivemind, or you aren't. Y'know, like the Borg.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)08:28 No.3786151
    No no, when you integrate, you start to become less human and more something else. At first fairly harmless, later something nastier, at the highest levels you might get possessed or something. See >>3784511
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)08:33 No.3786162

    Sudden flashes, visions, odd compulsions to do things you normally wouldn't have done on your own, an odd sense of familiarity towards Integrated individuals...
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)08:36 No.3786171
    so puberty
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)09:00 No.3786242
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)12:22 No.3787096
    I have another fluff bit to for an individual who has gone nearly-full intergration and completely lost it. More rogue AI / intelligent cyber style then "One with the net". It was inspired by >>3778355 and >>3778550. I've tried to make it less "Puny Meaty Insects, bow before my power" and more "Why can't you people see that I'm right? I'm the good guy here, not you!", although God knows if that comes across properly.
    >> Babbage !0KSb1naBQQ 02/22/09(Sun)12:25 No.3787134

    “Stay close. He’s in here somewhere”

    Garret tested his firewalls nervously, the glowing shields briefly becoming visible as he charged and discharged them. This Cyber was far more cunning then most of its kind, leaving behind walls of advanced code and virus filled traplinks in an attempt to throw its hunters off the scent. Marisa had seen through them all though. She had brought the group together, she had led them through the net to the beast’s lair, and now she took the lead, guiding the small band through this darkened labyrinth that ringed the perimeter of the core website.

    “What is this place?” asked Jones as they linked through a final portal, her code signature shifting as she attempted to understand the confusing signals this new location generated.

    “Its data rich, and I’m getting some weird readings, but the code’s all intact! It’s like the cyber hasn’t trashed anything. And it’s old too – hey, I think there’s even a 3D-Engine in here! What the hell could have needed this? I’ve never heard of anything like it!”

    +++ The word you are searching for is ‘museum’, young lady. Although more accurately this place is an amalgamation of many museums and art galleries – the New York Metropolitan, the Tate, the Smithsonian, the British Museum, the Louvre, the Duabai Collection… +++

    Suddenly, with a booming sound that echoed sonorously around them, a brilliant spotlight appeared beneath group. This was followed by another further away, and then another, and then another, until soon the entire area was brightly lit as if by invisible lanterns. The Cyber’s nest was revealed in all its glory – and what glory it was!
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)12:26 No.3787145
    Carry on then, let's have a read.
    >> Babbage !0KSb1naBQQ 02/22/09(Sun)12:27 No.3787153

    From the small amphitheatre in which they now stood emerged long, curving corridors of pristine white marble opening onto dazzling plazas decorated with art and artefacts from every age of man. At regular intervals along these paths, open archways revealed vaulted halls, every architectural embellishment picked out in beautiful and fragile lines of code. Exquisitely rendered paintings, from Boschs to Bacons, from Monets to Mars-Kylans, hung from every vertical surface and, above it all, the sound of an orchestra reciting a forgotten symphony played softly.

    Marisa stepped forward, hands on hips, and called out to the air.

    “Hello Byron. Long time no see.”

    The tiled floor in front of Marisa began to bulge and move. The hunters stepped back and readied their weapons as something large drew itself upwards from the glossy surface. The bulging floor grew into a cylindrical tower taller then a man, before changing shape and shedding textures until a robed figure made entirely of hard code had emerged. The Cyber floated up from the artificial earth and smiled benignly.

    +++ As I recall that is not my fault, Marisa. It was you who left me out in the wastes, not the other way around. Not that it matters especially. You are in good health. +++

    “That’s none of your damned business, freak!”

    +++ That was not a question, Marisa. +++

    Garret realised with a sudden start of horror that the cyber’s mouth was not moving, and in any case the sound of its voice was not even emanating from its body. Instead, it appeared to be using the same sound channel through which the orchestral music was playing. How integrated was this thing?
    >> Babbage !0KSb1naBQQ 02/22/09(Sun)12:28 No.3787162

    The Cyber moved slowly away from them, arms crossed over its chest, towards the nearest plaza.

    +++ I see from your implants that you have overcome your irrational loathing of integration. I admire/applaud/appreciate your new found logic and that of your companions. I can recommend Marisa as a leader, GarretCorewise/JonesNetscape/HomicidalMan42. Aside from her faulty logic regarding the Integrated, I found her to be an excellent field commander. She has clearly been patched since then. You are all very fortunate. +++

    Garret risked a look at Marisa as they followed the thing into the plaza. How did she know its name? More to the point, how did it know his?

    The cyber drifted ahead of them and sank closer to the marble floor of the wide open space. As it did so, the floor rose up to meet it, sculpting and moulding itself into a high backed throne. The hunters spread out into an attack formation around it, readying their weapons and charging firewalls. It seemed curiously unconcerned by this threat.

    +++ Might I ask/inquire/question why you are here? From your configuration builds none of you seem to be samplers of high culture. +++

    “Where are the curators, Byron? What have you done with the curators?”

    The cyber cocked its head on one side, a curiously human gesture that spooked Garret more than anything else it had done.

    +++ They are still here. This is a museum after all. A museum requires curators. Do you not see them? You only had to ask for assistance. We are glad to help visitors with special needs. +++
    >> Babbage !0KSb1naBQQ 02/22/09(Sun)12:30 No.3787177

    The cyber raised one claw and made a complex gesture upwards. The invisible lights flickered for a moment and then returned at full brightness. However, in the fraction of time which this took, the museum had changed. Before, the paintings and sculptures had been static. Now every artefact buzzed with life. The subjects of portraits looked as though they were trapped behind a sheet of glass, mouthing screams for help and hammering desperately at their prisons. The faces of statues had changed, and now seemed to weep tears of raw data. A digital representation of a suit of armour rustled and clanked, as though it contained a person to weak to move in the heavy metal. Jones gaped in horror.

    “You… what did… what… how… WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO THEM, YOU MONSTER?!”

    +++ I am integrating them. They will be more efficient now. What is left of their human psyche resists, but we are making good progress nonetheless. Do you have another question, JonesNetscape? +++


    +++ Because they are curators. They are stores of knowledge. They built this place from fragments gathered from all over the net, attempting to bring the sum of human culture together in one place for future generations of netborn. However, their ‘humanity’ stopped them from fully understanding the richness of the data. Once they are integrated, this will no longer be a problem. They will understand the data to a degree that a ‘pure’ human could never comprehend. +++

    “And then?”
    Asked Marisa quietly,
    “What are you going to do then, Byron.”
    >> Babbage !0KSb1naBQQ 02/22/09(Sun)12:31 No.3787189

    +++ Isn’t it obvious, FriendMarisa? I will integrate them with each other, and then when my task is complete, I too shall shed the last fragments of individuality. The petty divisions between us will break down into pure data, and all shall be as one. There will be no Byron, there will be no curators. There will only be Apollo, the light of inspiration. Too much beauty was lost with the crash. Those who call themselves human now are no better then barbarians, thinking only of conflict and not of higher matters. They are small creatures. This shall not stand. The Net will know beauty again. We shall see to it. +++

    “We can’t let you do that Byron. Release the curators, leave the Museum, and get back to the Core. We don’t want to have to delete you”

    The cyber looked disappointed.

    +++ I cannot, FriendMarisa, even if I desired it. I am in the code now. I am the museum. When you left me to die/delete/decompress in the wastes, I had a choice. I could dissolve into the greater net, be as one with it and watch as you humans broke apart my life’s work in your relentless search for resources. Or I could return here, to the place where my first form was created, and reconfigure it so that it could operate in the most effective manner possible. I had no choice. +++

    HomicidalMan42, a scriptkid for whom a day without fighting was a day wasted, raised his scripts and charged the cyber. Instantly, the creature reacted, melting into the floor with liquid speed. From across the sound system, in a voice that sounded like music, it spoke again.

    +++ No. You cannot stop us. We are Apollo. We are the light of inspiration. You shall not hinder the great work. +++
    >> Babbage !0KSb1naBQQ 02/22/09(Sun)12:32 No.3787193

    Up above, the lights flickered again. When they came back on, the people trapped in the art had ceased struggling, but looked at the group with hate filled eyes. Slowly, deliberately, the subject of each painting moved forwards, pressed at the edge of the canvass and then stepped out onto the plaza, colours and textures shifting as they moved. Marisa took charge.

    “Don’t be scared, they’re just cybers and virii wearing textured skins. They aren’t the curators – Byron won’t risk losing their knowledge in a straight fight.”

    “Marisa, we have to know - what is Byron? He’s not really a cyber, is he? And how do you know him?”

    Marisa sighed.

    “He was a human once. Actually came from this place. He made it his life’s work to track down every last pic, vid, or sound file of high culture that had survived the crash. He hired me and mine to help him.”

    “What happened to him?”

    “He integrated too much. He went mad. I dealt with him. Or so I thought.”

    With a grinding sound of tortured stone, one of the statues behind the group clambered down from its plinth and flexed its carved muscles. Its naked form seemed vaguely familiar to Garret – was it The Thinker that looked like that, he thought fuzzily, or was it The David?

    Marisa snapped him out of his reverie with a barked command.

    “Garret, HomicidalMan, take down that statue. Jones, give them cover. I’ll take on these painted freaks. Hurry! We have to get to the central file store before Byron integrates everything completely!”
    >> Babbage !0KSb1naBQQ 02/22/09(Sun)12:36 No.3787224

    And that's that. I realise now that the discussion has moved on slightly since most of that was written, but there may be salvageable stuff in there. Hope it is of some use.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)12:41 No.3787257
    It works pretty well. An example of someone who's around about 90 % integrated and goes down the deep end. He wants to become data to keep the place up, the data becoming seems to be just the means to an end while someone who's 100 % integrated the end itself would be become pure data. Still it might be an idea to put it in as a sort of warning story about the dangers of becoming integrated too much.
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)12:50 No.3787316
    Can other lifeforms integrate, too? If we have three different kind of "organic" inhabitants in the world - humans, viruses, and cybers - with drastically different "biology" each, plus two kind of "mechanic" lifeforms - AIs and Olds - who're also so different from each other, that would give us five different kinds of coding. Integration is when you merge yourself with any of the four different of you.

    I'm rather fond of this idea, that it's not something that's just restricted to humans. Virus riders could integrate their viruses with foreign data to make them more powerful, as well as less suspectible to antivirus weaponry. Smart cybers could pick up human code to eliminate some of their weaknesses. An AI wants to be human, like so many robots in fiction, and thus gives himself some human code.

    Olds would be different in this sense: They'd pick up some data sometimes too, yes, but they're so massive that they need much, much more of it than others, making their integration extremely slow. At the same time, picking up code from them would be nigh impossible, but also very powerful by its own right. Some epic level characters could be tasked to somehow acquire some Old coding and make some extremely good equipment and updates from it.

    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)12:50 No.3787318
    If you're 100% integrated, you become raw data that becomes one with the Internet.
    If you reach maximum safe integration or "Integration 10", then anything could happen to you - you could become a madman like Byron or you could reach 100% integration and become raw data or you could become so completely obsessed with removing 'excess coding' that you end up removing something vital and just become a useless body of code lying there. So many choices.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)12:54 No.3787354
    There was some stuff about Viruses taking control of Virus Riders and using them to kill people. There was also the Butterfly story too which woman and virus became one and kicked some ass.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)12:55 No.3787364
    That was just normal virus infection. It doesn't really count - unless we say that "infection" is just another form of integration, which really would make sense.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)12:56 No.3787375
    I remember Dr Matthews. He was a teacher on my Comp Sci degree, a module called "Biomechanical integration". He was a cyberfreak, heck half the course was, more metal than flesh on most of the students. I never went into that stuff- creeped me out, you know?

    But I got on with Dr Matthews. He was a good guy. Taught us fair and straight, respected my opinions and had a few good debates about the ethics of it all.

    I was in that class when the fall hit. We were all jacked into to the Uni network, and then suddenly I couldn't get out, and I was virtually alone. I had no idea what happened at first, or where they'd all gone. I did what everyone else did, run and hide and scream and fight and I was lucky enough to survive.

    it was only later, talking with others, I realised the Cybers hadn't made it in. I felt kinda sad. Quite a few people on that course were my friends, and though I lost a lot of friends that day, losing so many without a fight was somehow worse.

    That was years ago. Ancient history, right? But, just last season, I saw him again. Dr Matthews.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)12:57 No.3787380
    I was lost in the wastelands- I'd taken a bad link, got thrown into some random site, far from my crew. I was dead- surrounded by a pack of ravening cybers, with Virii close behind, just waiting to feast. And then I heard a voice. "Come now Christopher, pay attention. This will be on the test".

    I turn and there he is. Or, at least it looked like him. There was nothing there and yet, it was like a silhouette in the code, a shape naturally emerging from the flowing symbols. He smiled, and snapped his fingers.

    The Cybers and Virii... well, decohered. They just fell apart. There was no damage to their firewalls, no script set off. They just lost any connection to themselves, and collapsed. When I looked back, Dr Matthews was gone. Couple of days later, I was back in civilisation, and the whole thing seemed like a dream.

    But I know it wasn't. I know, somewhere, they're looking out for us. The fallen, the lost, they're still there. Gives me hope man. It helps me sleep at night.

    Proof? Well, you know that trick with the code decoherence? I can do it. Here, watch...
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)12:57 No.3787383
    Integration does not involve adding any new code.
    There are certain things that make you human. The more integrated you become, the less human you become.

    To begin with, you might remove the less vital systems. It's the Internet. You don't need a functioning liver or bladder. Then, who needs a pulse? Who needs to breath? Who needs organs? You're just a body of code, you don't need organs! There's no need to look so high res. What's with all these polygons, you don't need them! You know what, fuck it. This 'humanoid' shape is so inefficient, I think I will get rid of it. Now, what's this... Ah, "emotions". Do I need these?
    ... Naaaah.
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)13:04 No.3787438
    >Integration does not involve adding any new code.

    Perhaps, but the point I was trying to make was that it's not restricted to just humans.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:04 No.3787448
    Well in that case i guess infection and integration are different. Becuase with infection what is you is still locked up it just can't do much.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:06 No.3787458
    Virii and cybers aren't humans - there are no human traits to remove.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:08 No.3787477

    based on the ideas expressed in


    I like the idea of a little hope in a mostly dark setting
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)13:09 No.3787483
    Of course not. But there are virus and cyber traits to remove, respectively. And AI traits for AIs.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:10 No.3787492
    Integration should be how removed from the code of a human being you are. Try removing a limb or three in Dwarf Fortress and see what happens. Humans in Internet mostly should behave like real world humans (as far as physical properties go) barring some very exceptional places where rules of physics bend. Otherwise a human removing the code for his lungs without altering the code that states he needs lungs to survive should die. (A lot of Webforts may enforce basic physics as a primary form of defense against chimeric Cybers, even. ) You can't just say "Nah this is the internet, we're just data, I don't need to breathe" and stop doing it, or the internet will just change your data of a living conscious human into a dead human (unless you're strong enough to alter the local programs that enforce physics. )

    So integration does boil down to adding or removing code from the human unit.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:10 No.3787494
    I think people who could still be integrated on the edge and retain sympathy of humanity should be quite few and far between. Still it made for a nice story.
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)13:14 No.3787519
    But cybers and others have their own rules, and I see no reason why they shouldn't learn to bypass them, just like humans could. It would be more or less logical, but more importantly, it'd be pretty cool and make for a more interesting game than if they couldn't do it.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:14 No.3787521
    Viruses are sort of... anamalistic. I'm not sure what you could remove from them. And Cybers, they have programming to keep to their basic functions: 1. Kill and make humanity suffer, die and fear 2. Find a form to make 1 possible. I think the Internet would try and keep them to that. Although I guess if Cybers go close to the outer edge where it's not as strong they could do it...
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)13:15 No.3787528
    Animals have rules, too. And cybers, while their general purpose would pretty much boil down to that, are a lot more complicated than you give them credit for.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:18 No.3787549
    So Virii, Cybers and AI have pieces of coding that they can afford to remove?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:19 No.3787565
    Well I guess a Viruses traits are... infecting stuff, following it's programing and spread out. So I guess they could slowly lose that. And Cybers... well they might be more complicated than that but not much has been done on anything but those two features.

    Still integrating seems to feel like something you'd expect from sentient things.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:21 No.3787572
    I do not disagree that Cybers should have their own modified Integration scores. Some should even be able to integrate further by "devouring" the codes of human adventurers, finding and copying their antivirii/firewall defense mechanisms. Makes Cybers much more terrifying, since they learn and use your own weapons against you now.
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)13:22 No.3787581
    Yes, just like humans do.

    But when did integration become removal of code? As in, chop off arm and don't give anything in return? Why is everyone talking about that kind of stuff? It doesn't make sense. Integration is when you replace parts of your code for one reason or another, or repair missing pieces with foreign code. And it's not an ability unique to humans. That's not logical.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:27 No.3787625
    >In the near future, the Internet becomes sentient and uploads everyone's brains, forcing them to fight for survival in an insane wasteland full of sentient programs, malicious viruses, and things far worse.

    Has anyone mentioned Blame! or Matrix yet?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:29 No.3787639

    I keep imagining Cybers like Safeguards or Silicon Life.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:29 No.3787643
    Oh, my bad, I now see what I did wrong. Yes, I do agree that Integration should be the amount of foreign code you have, and not only for humans. What about defining 100% Integration as the entirety of internet itself (which contains the code of everything) ?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:30 No.3787652
    It's more losing stuff that isn't suitable anymore. Your human body, for example. It was developed with quite a lot of constraint but now you can do far much more. In fact why do you even NEED a body beyond something to use code with? And then it becomes a sort of slippery slope.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:31 No.3787659

    Killy is an Old.

    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)13:31 No.3787670
    Yes. Also Tron.
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)14:00 No.3787909
    So, let's do this thing. If anyone has anything against anything here, discuss.

    First of all, there are different kinds of creature code:
    -Humans: Ever thought why Pinocchio wanted to be a real boy? Their biggest selling point of humans, the emotions, is deemed "illogical" by other inhabitants of the web, but they can't argue how happy humans seem to be like with them, and how reluctant they often are to let them go. Sometimes an occasional cyber gives it a shot, and likes what he feels. Humans win by the Power of Love!
    - AI: The most common integration type, at least by humans, AIs are often made for hacking, cracking, and lurking, and these abilities are made easier to do when integrating their code. In addition, they have superior physical skills, with far more raw strength than humans. Plus you can't argue that metal arms look awesome.
    - Cybers: Hm. This part still requires more than a little bit of work. I just can't seem to make up anything cool, logical, and useful for them.
    - Viruses: Integration of these is called infections, and they're always purely negative. No one in their right mind would ever voluntarily integrate with a virus.
    - Olds: This last type is extremely rare to obtain, but is sometimes left behind by a rampaging lovecrafian horror. These little pieces of data generally contain incredible knowledge from the days long gone, information, skills, and abilities, enough to turn anyone integrating them into a force to be reckoned with. Except that they're also an incredible burden, being taken from an unstoppable power, and tend to cause quite plenty of bad stuff.
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)14:01 No.3787915
    There are ten levels of integration. Each time you put something new inside you, there's a chance that you'll move one level upwards, depending upon the size of the add-on, and how much crucial code is replaced. Having a new limb or eye generally won't hurt you much, but uploading your mind with neurological enchancers is far more risky. All creatures begin from level 0, and each level causes more and more nasty side effects, until a total destruction at level 10. And while it would be possible to de-integrate, as >>3784058 said, at higher levels it will become entirely impossible to ever remove all of the foreign code.

    In addition, viruses have harder time to infect someone integrated, due to drastically different kinds of code involved. But then again, finding a cure is also harder, for exact same reason. Also, certain weaponry is meant for a certain kind of code, such as antivirus, and being integrated reduces their effectiveness - or increases, in some cases, but mostly reduces.

    Finally, having different kinds of code is extremely inadvisable. While a body can handle two different kinds, adding a third one is extremely risky, and a fourth almost suicidal. For instance, a human first adding AI and then cyber code, will suffer painful and harmful effects far more than if he only had two kinds of code. And should he ever be infested by a virus, he would have four kinds, and most likely would die instantly. Might be a good argument to de-integrate, especially if you happen to discover some precious and valuable Old code.

    Discuss. Argue. Add to 1d4chan.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:03 No.3787931
    You should be able to integrate with other kinds of non-human real world objects as well. Cybers under the Internet's influence do this to inspire terror. Virii (like the T. rex virus back in...thread 5? ) do this because their intelligence is similar to animals so they don't really know what exactly they're integrating with.
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)14:05 No.3787945
    I suppose they would count under the "other". They wouldn't exactly have much positive effects, apart from looking real creepy.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:07 No.3787967
    Apparently there are over 50 A4 pages of fluff for Servercrash.

    Good job, /tg/.
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)14:10 No.3787993
    As I said in IRC, there will be no more fluff until we've crunched some significant amount of rules.

    Hopefully, a rapidshare link will follow. Vote for your ten most favourite stories!
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:13 No.3788004
    A Cyber could integrate you if you've been seduced by the Dark God I suppose... it would have to serve quite a large purpose for you to not just be tortured and hten killed.

    Also, what. Why is an Old integrating things. It just wants revenge. It's utterly insane and wants revenge.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:15 No.3788027
    Wait wait wait.

    So suddenly integration is about absorbing parts of other creatures?

    I thought we said it exactly wasn't that a few threads ago.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:15 No.3788033
    The Old is not integrating you, you're integrating a small leftover part of an Old, gaining untold powers. The catch is that a part of the Old's consciousness still exists inside that small fraction, the sheer complexity of its mind slowly driving you insane.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:16 No.3788040
    >Also, what. Why is an Old integrating things. It just wants revenge. It's utterly insane and wants revenge.

    By accident. It tramples around and crushes things: It's bound to pick up something inside it without trying at some point or another.

    Well, why not?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:25 No.3788107
    >By accident. It tramples around and crushes things: It's bound to pick up something inside it without trying at some point or another.

    Of course, as Weblord mentioned,
    >they're so massive that they need much, much more of it than others, making their integration extremely slow.

    Adding to this that they're not consciously trying to integrate anything into themselves, that them picking up anything is more or less random, I don't think this should have much significance.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:27 No.3788123
    Well, what's wrong with the concept of altering yourself so that you remove the "pointless" bits of data that make you what you are? The coding that makes you human?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:30 No.3788150
    Nothing, but you'll have to find something to replace them with. The data from other creatures do fine, and you might as well take useful stuff from them while you're at it.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:31 No.3788158
    No, they really aren't. Cybers are basic programs that the Dark Internet uses as tools for his Sinister Plans. They're like His eyes and his arms and his claws, and have no further purpose. If you sever that link between a Cyber and the D.I., then the Cyber will continue on the same course that was last programmed into it... which is, generally
    1) Find a scary form.
    2) Kill all humans.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:38 No.3788219
    >But when did integration become removal of code?
    When we defined integration as the opposite of humanity. You remove redundant/useless human bits and approach cleaner, more efficient, and purer amounts of code.
    >As in, chop off arm and don't give anything in return?
    You become more efficient. This has a substantial effect on all of your abilities and limits.
    >Why is everyone talking about that kind of stuff?
    Because it's how it was decided to be. You're in a significant minority on this.
    >> betamax 02/22/09(Sun)14:38 No.3788225
    Good god guys...
    I've just been through every single Server Crash thread, and collected every single fluff story, and numbered them for convenience. There are 50 in total - more than enough for several rulebooks. I suggest we stop writing now, and choose the best ones which will make it into the rulebook. y/n?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:41 No.3788239
    It's probably going to be a huge book anyway.
    >> Weblord 02/22/09(Sun)14:41 No.3788244
    They're smart. When they see useful code, something that could make them more powerful, improve their abilities in seeing through their primary purpose.

    Also, the Internet created them to destroy humans, but it's not strong enough to control each one individually, or it'd've destroyed us by now. So many of them have developed secondary goals: Take one that has a special interest in a certain kind of human videos, and wants to collect them and hoard them to itself. Or another who wishes to travel around and see the Internet.

    I could even go as far as to say that some of them could rebel against their programming and become good guys - but that might be too cheesy and Drizztish, so we may want to ignore it. But regardless, there would be many reasons to integrate something. And if a human wants to become stronger, taking their code is generally a way to go: After all, they were literally bred for destruction.

    >When we defined integration as the opposite of humanity. You remove redundant/useless human bits and approach cleaner, more efficient, and purer amounts of code.

    This is a sad, non-human way of thinking, and I don't agree with it.

    >You become more efficient. This has a substantial effect on all of your abilities and limits.

    How would removing an arm make you more efficient?

    >Because it's how it was decided to be. You're in a significant minority on this.

    Really? How many exactly are against me in this? If there's enough, I'll stand down, though I still can't see how my way is any lesser.

    I also think I'd have some more authority in this than your average anonymous, but I'm not going there.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:45 No.3788266
    You don't have to replace it with anything.

    When you uninstall unwanted programs that clog up space on your computer, do you immediately find something to replace them with?
    >> betamax 02/22/09(Sun)14:45 No.3788271
    This thread's going down! Somebody open a link, quick!
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:48 No.3788285
    Stop thinking of it as removing an arm. This is where you're going astray. It's more like if you, as a person, had a lump of flesh hanging off your cheek. It has no nerve endings and it gets in the way. So you cut it off. Now it's not sucking up blood and blocking your vision! What else could I cut off?!
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:49 No.3788298
    It's not removing an arm, for the last time!
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:49 No.3788299
    >How would removing an arm make you more efficient?
    "Removing an arm" isn't the best example.

    Let's put it this way:
    High definition images take up so much space. Is high definition really worth it?
    Now, replace "high definition images" with "lungs" and "high definition" with "breathing" and you kind of get the image.
    Especially when you aren't required to breath. It's the internet, after all.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:50 No.3788313
    >They're smart.
    No. They are evil wrenches that the Dark God of the Internet is using to club us with.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:50 No.3788318
    Judging from the number of replies in 2 minutes, in this falling thread, it's 3 against 1.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:51 No.3788325
    Ah, I understand now.

    How would this affect things? Would people immediately decide to discard their lungs? How easy would it be?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:52 No.3788336
    But they're smart, too. If they weren't, they wouldn't be much use for the Internet, now would they?
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:53 No.3788341
    New thread: >>3788340
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:53 No.3788345
    Besides, if we make cybers stupid, there's practically nothing intelligent left to oppose humans. That'd be boring.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:53 No.3788346
    Are you trolling? A wrench doesn't need to be smart to be functional.
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)14:54 No.3788357
    Probably not.
    You see, now you need to think like a human. We're used to breathing.
    Now imagine you don't have lungs. You don't even need to breath. In fact, you can't breath! That old familiar rhythm, that old motion, it's no longer there. You're not breathing.
    It's an inhuman sensation that we can't possibly imagine. While it makes you more effective on the internet, like all forms of integration, you're sacrificing your humanity and your sanity by integrating.
    >> betamax 02/22/09(Sun)14:56 No.3788371
    NEW new thread: >>3788359
    >> Anonymous 02/22/09(Sun)16:49 No.3789267
    why is integrity a pc stat? if you gain integrity, you become week vs virii, if you lose integrity you are more human an cant function well. Just say that player can go from 30% to 70% but dont make it a stat.

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