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  • File :1235048906.jpg-(423 KB, 2000x899, ze internet.jpg)
    423 KB Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)08:08 No.3759067  
    New Server Crash thread.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)08:10 No.3759077
    Excuse me just re-posting.

    The alarm ran throughout the webfort, awaking me. I ran out of my small thread of a home and tried to see what the commotion was about. Cyber rush. I didn't need to be told. I could see them in the distance, behemoths of terror all misshapen into things that man should never see. I wanted to run, to hide to never have to face these things. But I'm a Coder. And it's my job to face these things. I run as fast as I can on my legs but my bandwith isn't that great so I don't go that fast, but I get there. I climb on top of the battlements where I find my fellow coders there, giving me a reassuring nod. I know they are just as nervous as me. We begin to chant, slowly at first, but it gets higher. Most of our mind in concentrated on our task but we leave a small part to pray to Moot that this works. The chanting gets louder, but the Cybers get nearer. Even with my face turned to look at the floor I glimpse a small sight of their malformed bodies. One of them appears to be made of aborted fetuses. I concentrate and our chant is near to an end but the Cybers are close. I smell their awful stench, they even went to the effort to make them progrem them self to smell. We all shout the final word as we swiftly turn to face the sky so glad that it's over. We all shout "RUN!".
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)08:10 No.3759078

    Great walls of fire surround the fort. Oh sure it's always covered by firewalls but not like this one. This one will even keep these behemoths out. Huge and massive and taking a lot of power from us but boy are we glad. For when I see these creatures of terror attempt to get through, futilely and then turn to run I go down on the floor and cry tears of joy. Until I heard it. Just for a brief second, but I swear to you I heard it. A dark, chilling voice a voice full on intelligence but definately not human whispers in my ear "Next time..."

    When the attack is over we celebrate. Every child I see I know is still here because of me. I should be glad. But I'm not because I now know there's something more to the Cybers. Something even more horrible. And that frightens me more than you can believe.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)08:40 No.3759201
    They call me...
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)08:41 No.3759208
    This may be my favourite homebrew of all time. Bravo /tg/, Bravo.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)08:48 No.3759241
    So, a Storyteller based game (D10 pool, successes totalled), using the standard style of freeform skills and stats (Although skills and stats will certainly need rethinking). Almost all

    WW games have a defining stat, like generation or Gnosis. What could the equivalent be in this?

    How available are abilities to other Profiles? Could a lurker load up a few nice hacks, to take advantage of the gaps he can make in a Cybers armour? Could a coder learn a little probing, to help him better know the challenges ahead, and therefore prepare for them?

    People have mentioned using ArtifIce's specialisation system. If so, what are the base stats, and how do you equate the levels of specialisation with dice bonus?

    Plugins might do to represent augmentations and self-modification via code fragments and such, but from what I've seen, they're not particularly balanced in ArtifIce, which may be problematic.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)08:54 No.3759265
    Hey when we get down to organizing this, should we include any of these short stories? You know like "This is an example of a high level Prober/Virus Herder/Coder".
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)08:59 No.3759285
    I vote for yes. It'd be especially awesome since I have written a major part of these, especially the early ones.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:00 No.3759293
    Of course, we'll have to change those stories a bit to fit in for the later rules: They do have some inconsistencies, especially what comes to classes.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:05 No.3759323
    I'd vote yes on including the stories. If you take a glance at the ArtifIce pdf, they've got all the little stories and such which were written for it scattered through the text. If worst comes to the worst, we could always stick some Nobilis style fluff-sidebars here and there, and use the fluff as chapter intro's too.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:16 No.3759372
    So, don't you people think that we should start describing those critters a bit more? As they are, I've gained the impression that both Cybers and virii are nothing more than mindless beasts of varying strength, some of which could be tamed, the only real difference being that Cybers work for the Internet, while virii are more chaotic and only looking for their next meal.

    Cybers especially deserve more. Sure, some of them could be just animals, but you'd think that the Internet would have more than that among its armies?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:16 No.3759375
    Has anyone done any organizing yet? Because that seems like a hard job. There's still a lot of confusion on what's true and what's not. Some people want to include a Dark God and some others and some people don't and just want a lot of minor gods and some people just want one internet god thing.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:21 No.3759390

    Lets leave the fluff to simmer for a bit. Its all in the archived threads, so it won't up and vanish.

    The agenda expressed in >>3759241
    seems as good a place to start as any. Once the rules have been shaping up a bit, we can look back at the fluff, and see it in a new light. then, we can organize it all together.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:29 No.3759421
    Main attrib? How about humanity - how much you are still human and not in tune with the web code.

    Low values - very human, can't really fully grasp surroundings.
    High values - transhuman, one with the web.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:29 No.3759427
    Did the previous threads get archived?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:37 No.3759461
    Yeah it's on suptg.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:42 No.3759479

    That'd be more akin to the morality/sanity thing also pervasive in WoD style games. good thought though.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:44 No.3759499
    I don't agree.
    If you are more than human you can still be humane.
    It would be something more like a mages ability to understand the truths underlying reality than anything else.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:46 No.3759504
    So, humans that are still IRL are like sidereals?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:48 No.3759508

    But, in style i.e. a sliding scale, with both benefits and disadvantages to each, it is more similar. Gnosis has no effect on your ability to function in society. It simply is supernal understanding and power. Having Humanity as a morality stat would be very interesting, like Clarity in changeling. At the higher levels, there'd be the risk of "ascending", reaching an entirely inhuman datastate, and such.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:49 No.3759512
    I don't agree.
    Gaining information doesn't have a downside.
    But getting too much in tune with the web makes you less human, which may not always be a good thing.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:50 No.3759516
    Nah, in this setting I think the more you fuse with the internet the more you'll hate humanity. But there's already questions being as the fact that the internet's personality has split, do you fuse with any specific personality or is it technically the whole internet you're fusing with?

    Anyway those who fuse with the internet will hate humanity more and more, because the internet did trap us showing it probablly doesn't like us all that much. The internet as a whole isn't as bad as the Dark God because that's all the hatred for humanity the internet has unfiltered but it's a big part of the internet's personality so the internet as a whole still doesn't like us all that much.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:50 No.3759518
    OH SHI-
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:51 No.3759521
    It would be also possible to implement a class that/profession/option that tries to achieve that.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:54 No.3759542
    Nah. I think it's possible, that when you get closer to the web you start to resent your fleshy origins, but it shouldn't be mandatory. I think it should be more than possible that you could become pure data stream and still love humans, even hating what you have become.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:55 No.3759548
    So how about combo route.
    Low levels - just a human, average programmer level of mentality.
    Mid levels - on his way to being a transhuman, inspired/genius programmer level of understanding.
    High levels - no longer human, ave inspiring command of code.

    This would create a balance where a player would want more of this stat but would need to look out if he's not on his way to some sort of ascension. Like in WFRP and mutations, a few are handy but you don't want to be spawn'd either.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)09:59 No.3759580
    This sounds pretty good.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:00 No.3759583

    I think it'd be better separated into two stats.

    One, a gnosis equivalent, is how much skill you have at manipulating the internet, basic knowledge etc.

    The second, the sliding scale, is how enmeshed you are with it. Low means you're still thinking human, not well adapted mid levels, average, means you are human enough to keep sane, but understand the internet enough to know things are different here. Higher than that, you start to become distanced from your humanity, more and more a being of the netts. Possibly probers'd have to have quite a high score to fully use their gifts, as they have to have that deep integration with the data to see what they see, but the distance from humanity drives em mad. If you hit max, you might become a Cyber, might become some unknowable spirit of data, flowing through the web on an impossible agenda, or whatever.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:02 No.3759597
    I like this, but still think that it should be possible, if very difficult, to remain sane through all that. If you had like Dalai Lama levels of wisdom, that is: Otherwise your mind would just break from the ordeal and you'd lose your mind, like you just described.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:04 No.3759607
    Yeah. But lets think if it's really plausible for actually having both? I think the first would imply the second and vice versa...

    It could be another interesting thing that keeps this apart from other ST settings.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:08 No.3759626

    Its possible to have a deep understanding of the mathematics of physics, of how to manipulate theoretical particles and simulate effects, while being entirely divorced from physical reality, which is essentially what you're working on.

    The humans who don't integrate into the internet treat it like their personal computer- they program into it using a language, it creates certain effects. These effects may be more important these days. Their understanding of programming etc is the same type they had on the outside, just in better detail.

    The other side is people who understand how things work. The act of letting the new realm suffuse you, understanding it just like we humans naturally understand the real world. Watch a fire, and you can see lots from the way it burns, which a physicist who made a perfect theoretical model of a fire wouldn't even take note of.

    Eh, maybe it only makes sense to me. Lots of my ideas are like that.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:11 No.3759643
    Aaand take into account that most people with such understanding can't be described as anything less than slightly insane.
    And we're still not talking on the same level. This would be at least symmetrical to a DEEP and intuition based understanding of quantum physics.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:14 No.3759662

    Using a philosophical example, a colourblind person who lived in a black and white world could still know everything scientifically possible about the colour red. Its wavelength, its properties, its interactions with all kinds of materials etc. However, they would never, ever see the colour red.

    People who don't integrate but still program are like that. While the know what they are doing, in an intellectual sense, they keep it apart from their self. This'd be hard to do. For those born to the nets, It'd be very rare. It'd mostly be a problem for old timers and so on.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:18 No.3759686
    I do like the idea that ones who integrate with the internet do have a chance of corruption/insanity. Ads an element of risk to it.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:24 No.3759731
    I see one-with-the-web corruption/insanity as a problem that would likely be found mainly in failed probers or others who get to close to prober territory - while highly experienced probers will be able to resist said corruption/insanity, the way there is a hazardous one, and less than one in ten make it there unchanged.

    Most other characters, even Coders, generally stay on a level where the self is seen as reasonably inviolable and separate, unless physically invaded such as by a worm - Prober territory involves understanding that you yourself can be running on the same hardware as the environment, sharing computation cycles with the vilest of virii.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:27 No.3759751

    I never thought about all of the classes being able to integrate. I've read where Probers have integrated, and I think a virus herder was getting close to it, what with some dangerous thoughts in his head... But everyone has a capacity for it. Someone who really integrates who's a coder can make a maze webpage in three minutes, fully trapped and shifting. A scriptkiddie/hacker could make and run a program that makes a gatling gun look like a nerf pistol in seconds. And even a Surfer could become integrated from sheer continued exposure to the wild of the internet hate machine, their knowledge starting to go beyond what experience could do, as if feeling creatures and circumstances like a prober could, knowing what an individual cyber has done lately or what's happened around a battlefield recently- and their traps could possibly even random reroute links for a short period of time, or break links so that they open an unending stream of infinite windows, or freeze all programs solid until they're taken apart, or, dear god, being capable of trapping, quarantining, and holding Cybers and Virii until they let them loose for BERSERK SLAUGHTER.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:30 No.3759764

    However, for all this potential for power and understanding, integration has its own, terrifying risks.

    I do like the idea of data-spirits though. Neutralish entities, seemingly indifferent to a mankind they have left behind, waltzing through an internet they almost completely understand on agenda's no living human could comprehend. Adds an additional element of weird to the setting.

    The usual fate for people who integrate too far, however, should be madness. Like the man who integrated directly with a virus or cyber, becoming part of the malice and hate which permeates the digital plane.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:31 No.3759771
    "I perceive... no less than 1000000 instances of self replicating code patterns transferring through the underlying GUI."
    "He said there are at least 64 worms... in the walls. Fuck."
    That guy was unnerving from the beginning... His avatar was just wrong. And I could never understand what he was talking about.
    "Statistically we face deletion. Relocation to alternate server would be advised."
    Yeah... we should run, even I got that.
    The worms... there was a lot of them, they must have been breeding here for a long time. Fat bloated black maggots hoping to hitch a ride to a Webfort or just... wherever. It didn't matter to them. Actually... there was something similar in the worms and his avatar.
    I took a few stabs and formatted one of the bastards, we just needed enough time to hyperlink back home in one piece, but we left our link in a different memory block.
    "Temporary connection established. We should ftp to base IP within the next few thousand clock ticks."
    My jaw dropped. There was a stable connection just behind him. He saved us. But... why does his avatar resemble a worm so much?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:32 No.3759775
    I dunno that seems to be encroaching on Herder territory a bit with the unleashing viruses stuff.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:37 No.3759807
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    You know what this all makes me think off? "BLAME!", yeah. It's a manga, but it's worth mentioning for being sheer mindfuckery on a visual level.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:41 No.3759829
    So... we could either go humanity or integration+recolection or something like that...

    Integration would be a users understanding of the web.
    Recolection would be like humanity - how much he remembers what it's like to be human.

    Humanity would be like both combined.

    I like the second idea better but the first might be more balanced gameplay wise... Or we could give both a negative aspect at high/low levels.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:44 No.3759845

    How about one stat which defines how good you are at Using the internet? Basically your programming skill, your raw ability to work code.

    A second stat defines How you work the code. Low means you do it at a distance, like a person working on a computer. Higher degrees mean you accept more and more of the code into your own mindset, making it more like working "magic" in a fantasy setting than just typing up a program.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:45 No.3759854
    Actually do we have ANY attribute set defined... this might be a good thing to discuss on its own.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:47 No.3759858
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    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:47 No.3759861
    Recollection is a bad term, since many will be born and raised without ever knowing meatspace.

    Rather, simply have an integration statistic that can be raised and lowered by certain actions and effects - 0% is the default, where you are separate from the world, and 100% is equal to death, where you can't separate yourself from the environment.

    Certain enemies might have integration-targeting attacks, where you'd lose more "health points" with higher integration, or suffer catastrophic effects if your integration is above a certain treshold value.

    Probers would naturally accumulate integration as they, well, probe - but they also have an integration tolerance statistic that allow them to ignore a certain amount of integration, depending on experience. An epic-tier Prober might have as much as 80 or 90% integration, but have it treated as a much more reasonable 10 or 20% when harmful, due to a 70% integration tolerance.

    Integration, apart from killing you or leaving you open to enemies, can modify the effects of certain abilities - most prober abilities grow stronger with high integration, but some abilities of other classes can benefit from it, as well.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:47 No.3759862

    Can't control them. Has to go to insane risk to capture them as it doesn't have Herder abilities to walk behind and LOLHIJACK, and has to have himself (or someone else...) act as bait to nab one of them. Can only work at leethigh levels of low ass integration.

    I don't think recollection would work. Most people would be clones, or first generation born and bred in the internets, so they wouldn't HAVE anything to remember.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:51 No.3759882
    This works. Gets my vote.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:51 No.3759884
    Are there actually any people being born on the net?
    I thought it's just the last of the previously meaty people trying to stay sane and not deleted... Or is that too GRIMDARKIAN?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:53 No.3759902
    I say new people are created through the semi-random combination and selection of the meatware (New term: Software originating in meat, or copied from meat-originating software) of one or more parents.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:55 No.3759913

    Percentage is the wrong way to do it, if were going WoD. I know one guy was using BRP, but if were trying to keep on the same page, dots is good.

    I don't think it should be something that can be attacked. Its not a physical constant of your self. Its part of your mindset. If something increases your integration with the net, it'd be something extreme like a virus infesting your body, or a cyber trying eat you, and subsume you.

    Also, I'd argue against full integration just being death, dispersing into the environment etc. Becoming some kinda netborn abomination, or a data spirit or whatever is much more fun.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:58 No.3759922
    Are we going for races or maybe "origins" with this?

    Original - person that once lived as meat.
    Meatware - entity created from/by/int the image of an original or originals.
    SDA - sentient data anomaly, a small, sentient AI, about the size of a meatware, not some colosal god like creature, i.e. server.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)10:59 No.3759930


    Getting close to ArtifIce there, buddy. Not a bad thing, just commenting on it.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:00 No.3759936
    Has the Coder got any writefaggery? I might try my hand at it if it hasn't.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:02 No.3759952
    I think there's been some, but you might as well write something anyway. There's never too much writefaggotry.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:02 No.3759956
         File :1235059351.jpg-(87 KB, 496x534, SHODAN.jpg)
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    Lo-lo-look at you, hacker. A pa-a-athetic creature of meat and bone. Panting and sweating as you ru-run through my corridors-s.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:02 No.3759957

    Some, but not enough. In the last thread there was a thing about an epic level coder who'd created a maze, which he used to save a group of fleeing people and crush the following Cybers, but thats all i recall.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:03 No.3759963
    I'm just using using a percentage there since we don't have an established range for statistics - percentages are easy to translate into other range values.

    As for 100% being death or not, I figured insanity, corruption and turning into a post-human net monster would likely set in well before that: 100% is just the absolute maximum it can go to. Say, whenever you gain integration while above 40%, you run a small risk of becoming less sane. Whenever you gain integration while above 60%, you run a large risk of becoming less sane and a small risk of becoming a post-human net monster.

    An example integration-based enemy attack might be to deal 3 damage to you, +1 for each 10% integration you have.

    Another, less direct, might be:
    If integration = 0-20%, do nothing.
    If integration = 20-40%, save or become 5% more integrated.
    If integration = 40-60%, save or become 10% more integrated.
    If integration = 60%+, save or become 15% more integrated.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:05 No.3759986
    Possible attribute list:

    Interface - think charisma/personality/perception in one.
    Algorithms - knowledge about programming, known algorithms, ability to create new ones... like strength and intellect combined.
    Capacity - size, determines how much data you can drag along and how large you are, might severely impact "movement", i.e. when you are a hulking block of tools or just the bare bone ware.
    Data scanning - a different sort of perception, how good you are at assessing code and the environment.
    Integration - duh.

    Critique/change/expand plox.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:07 No.3759999
    Shit, I meant the Cracker not the Coder. I just had an idea of a lone cracker fighting for his life. Screw it, I'll get to work writing about it anyway.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:08 No.3760005
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    If you think about it both settings aren't that different, i.e. both revolve around more or less pure data entities.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:17 No.3760058
    It's the same difference than with, say, Star Wars and Star Trek. Someone unfamiliar with the stuff takes a quick glance and they both seem exactly the same: It's not until he starts to look closer that he can see the great big differences there are.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:20 No.3760089
    However in this case Artifice fluff would easily fit inside of Server Crash and Server Crash could become an element of Artifice (alternate setting perhaps). Whereas SW and ST are incompatible as one is fantasy in space and the second is technobabble in space - together they do not mash.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:22 No.3760113
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:23 No.3760118

    I just don't feel it right that integration with the net is something that's forced on you. To me, it seems something that you'd have to choose, and at some points would want to choose. It frees you from yourself, and lets you understand why these things are happening. It removes some of the responsibility, some of the guilt, while at the same time letting you feel more capable, more in tune with the world. Even if its letting go of your humanity, its grasping onto something higher. Its almost addictive.
    >> Earthflame !98PcYIvlCI 02/19/09(Thu)11:25 No.3760140

    Just to say, Don't worry about it being compatible with ArtifIce. While the concepts are similar, this works in quite a different way. That being said, take anything that's useful too you. And, after this gets done, I may well take it into my head to make ArtifIce compatible anyway. It'll be easier that way around, no risk of harming what is, currently, a fantastic setting.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:27 No.3760158
    This is good. I also believe this is how it would feel...

    However think of it this way: you are code. Part of you just got formatted/deleted, you need to patch yourself up to retain function - you get Integration forced on you.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:31 No.3760208
    Actually... AIs... would they appear in the setting? And if so what would be the extent of their capabilities? Mindless machines, or an alien intelligence comparable with humans? God like entities that govern their own spheres of influence? All of the above?

    What if the meatworld is now being governed by a world wide AI that doesn't know what to do with itself so it just keeps everything clean and running expecting its now trapped masters and creators to one day return?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:32 No.3760217
    >However think of it this way: you are code. Part of you just got formatted/deleted, you need to patch yourself up to retain function - you get Integration forced on you.

    Well, most of this would be just physical changes, and I doubt there'd be all that much effect in your mind. It's only when you'll start to modify your brain and mind to better hold the great secrets on the Internet, that you make your first step on the slippery slope away from humanity.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:32 No.3760222
    Let me tell you the story of how I got to become a noble in this webfort. Let me tell you the story of why I look like this.

    So there I was, lost in some random webapge. I was with an expedition from my old webfort. I was with a Coder and a fellow Cracker. When suddenly a whole heap of viruses come out of nowhere, I never found out why but I suspected some Virus Herder had lost control of his herd. Well we all panicked and jumped to the nearest link, unfortunately just as I was traveling the link got changed. I got separated from the group. Now boy, you must know by now that if you travel the internet alone you're damn near doomed. But I wasn't giving up hope so I begun to search for a safe haven.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:33 No.3760230
    It's a pity that what I found was a Cyber and a woman. Or maybe it was good luck. You decide. Anyway this woman was pretty badly damaged on the floor, down for the count. But by the looks of thing she had harmed the Cyber in the fight, and this Cyber was a mean looking thing. It was a giant snake but it's tail ended like a Scorpions and for a head it has a squid. Practically wanted to vomit. Now I don't know why I didn't run, maybe it was bravery, maybe it was stupidity. But I rushed at that thing's underbelly and pumped my hands into it and distorted it's code as much as a could. It screeched and noticed me, distracted from it's unconscious prey and now all eyes were on me. But I just kept on pumping, ripping apart the thing's code and boy was it getting madder. It uses it's head tentacles and RIP there goes my arm. Data was spewing right out of me. But I don't pay it any heed and draw my attention away from it's underbelly to it's now welcoming face. I rip the fuckers eyes out with two swift pulls as fast as lightening. The Cyber doesn't like THAT. Flails around like crazy and, if by some sense of where I was or if I was just unlucky, impales by arm with it's scorpion like tip and rips it clean off. So there I am with no arms in front of a very mad Cyber. But I just grin like a mad man. Want to know why? I had a special program for something liek this. Programmed right into my head. I pumping all my data and programs to strengthen my legs, jump high enough to go to eye level with the fucker - if it still had eyes, that is - and BAM. I headbutt him. Has a special program on my head. Goes straight to it's core and with a final wail it dies. I had programmed adrenaline going all through my code so I shout "NOW WHO WANTS SOME? WHO WANTS SOME OF THIS? I'VE GOT NO ARM BUT I'LL KILL ANYONE!"
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:33 No.3760237

    So anyway after that I lie down next to this chick, had almost forgotten about her. I'm spewing data at a rapid rate so I figure I'm going to die next to her. But she drifts to consciousness and she figures out that I saved her. And you know, I guess I was luck despite the fact I lost my arms. Because she was an admin of this webfort. Brings me back here and patches me up. Couldn't fix me any new arms but I tell her that's alright. So she allows me to stay in this bar and gives me a nice ale. All in all It's a good life, she had a lot of power so I've got a good job and when you consider what's out there losing your arms is a small price. So that's my story. Now get me a simulated ale, would you?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:34 No.3760243
    By the time of the Fall, the world was full of AIs, all of which were moved to the Internet along with humans. I think of them as droids from Star Wars: They're of varying power, intelligence, and self-awareness, some made to serve humans, others gone mad and decided to tear them apart. Some could even be player characters.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:35 No.3760256
    I was under the impression that people trapped in the net no longer had bodies... and if so they do not have brains and as so the personality is also code. Fully digitized humans.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:35 No.3760267
    Well the internet itself is an AI really. But it's personality split but it's remnants are sort of like gods. A lot of smalled one but there's the big one, the Dark God, that creates the Cybers and wants to kill us all.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:37 No.3760288
    Well yeah, but body and mind are still a completely different thing, and changing one is not the same as changing the other.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:40 No.3760305
    You see... now you are only a mind. There is no difference between physical and psychical because it's all just cooode.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:41 No.3760315

    In either the first or second thread there was a NORAD AI who was pretty chill. He spent his time pre-crash playing chess and checkers. When the fall hit, whatshisname made his own fortress and kicked some bots into gear as well as firewalling and whatnot. Think it was a ruling Coder as an AI. Had a thing for protecting humans, as that was its job from pre-crash. It "affectionately" referred to humans as "White Pieces", thinking of them as the good guys from chess. Had its shit locked up tight, but goes out of its way for the fort inhabitants to send out rescue parties and scout parties for survivors in the waste.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:44 No.3760342
    We're just code, yes, but only changing certain parts of it will cause corruption. When your hand gets ripped off by a Cyber, and that part of you goes Fatal Error, you can replace it without a problem, because it's not a critical part of your own programming.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:46 No.3760356
    So we've had stories for.... Cracker, Coder, Virus Herder, Prober, Lurker... have I forgotten any?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:47 No.3760359
    There's a brief self-introduction I wrote for a high-level Script Kid a thread or two ago, but I think you've caught most of them.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:47 No.3760361
    Yes. But it IS possible to get part of your personalty damaged. And that IS the point of forced integration.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:48 No.3760369
    (Also note that the "killall -9" story features a Script Kid as the protagonist in addition to the dying Prober, though not being specifically referred to as such.)
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:50 No.3760381
    That wouldn't be any easier than in the real world, however.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:52 No.3760407
    Integration should represent how much in-tune you are with the server side of things, rather than how code-y you are. After all, everyone's just code. Being closer to the server side allows you to do more things, but also makes you less 'human' so to speak. As you put in more presence server side, you have less presence on the webpage side. When you reach 100% integration, you cease to exist on the webpage side, having transfered entirely over to the Serverside. What happens to people who go Serverside? No one knows, but they are never seen again...
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:53 No.3760409
    Actually it would.
    Both take just a lucky shot that gets deep enough behind your defences, however...
    In the real world if your brain gets damaged you will most likely die horribly in the next few minutes or never regain anything.
    In cyberspace you can actually patch up your brain using a bypassing AI as a model.
    >> TIRED DRAWFAG 02/19/09(Thu)11:55 No.3760420
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    Well. someone did mention sup/tg/ being a pit crawling with horrors...
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:55 No.3760421
    With all this talk about integration we should really think about that Druid like class that was proposed. They would be really integrated of course.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:55 No.3760425
    Lets say forced integration is possible, but rare. Its easier to kill someone, or at least hurt them, than it is to warp their code that way. Thus, its an option for GM's to use, but mostly, the players own "soul" as it were, is in their hands.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:55 No.3760430
    Actually that IS what integration is - a measure of how much your code is meatcode and how much it's just generic netcode combined with how your brain code processess code - like a human or like a machine. Jeez... there sure is a lot of code in this game.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:55 No.3760433
    You mean the probers? They're the most fluffed out class.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:56 No.3760436
    Well, okay, it would be easier, but only because dying is more difficult. Either corruption or death, I guess.

    In other news, Crusaders of the Black Parade, from the first thread. They're hereby considered canon, and deserve more write-/drawfaggotry.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:58 No.3760446
    Code is just code. If you do it the Serverside way, integration has both risks and benefits. Benefits in that the higher your integration, the easier it is to affect the world (after all, you're closer to the 'source', so to speak). Risks in that the more integrated you are, the less connected you are to the surrounding world, and, should you reach 100%, you disappear entirely.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)11:58 No.3760453
    You know what I'm picturing mentally when I think about this setting? Glowing balls of code floating around with human shapes inside, and spindly shapeless abominations as viri and cybers... the surroundings composed of monumental stacks of code, some decaying and broken, some still new and neatly arranged...
    >> TIRED DRAWFAG 02/19/09(Thu)11:59 No.3760459
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    i love being the only contributing drawfag when I suck.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:01 No.3760473
    I would have two drawings to contribute with, had I actually a scanner. Not that I'm much better artist than you: In fact, I think you're pretty good.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:04 No.3760496
    There are different types and forms of code. It's not a blob or anything like that.

    Think about it this way:
    0% integration - you are a human, your core code is that of a human, a digitized brain, a fleshy thing.
    100% integration - AI, not human any more, anything that might have been human about you has expired replaced with shiny new silicon code.

    Between that - a human patched up with more or less additional code, be that because you are naturally adapted to the net, augmented yourself or patched yourself up with code after being critically wounded.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:04 No.3760499
    Also a bit more on the /b/arbarians. One of the /b/arbarians greatest powers is their ability to Proxy. The original fluff on it was this:

    >Proxy: /b/arbarians use bizarre data to enter into the state of Proxy and its powers. The torrent of data produced protects them from many forms of attack, but as they use their gained powers this quality weakens.

    I'd think that a proxy should provide a straight out miss chance, somewhere in the order of 20%. This lessens as the battle goes on. The most powerful of /b/arbarians have SEVEN PROXIES.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:06 No.3760509
    The girl in the middle is a Script Kiddie right?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:07 No.3760511
    [I meet him in a seedy /tg/ outpost’s tavern on one of the innermost rings of the internet currently livable. A dangerous place for an interview, but the best stories are from the front. This is a dangerous place, and /tg/’s warriors are everywhere, their bolters, bows, and laser rifles (as well as countless other weapons) all held close and loaded. The man I’m interviewing has a sort of understated menace to himself as well, although the only weaponry he’s carrying is a truly antique spybot program and a double-barreled antivirus slung across his back. He takes a long pull of his underclocker (of fine codesmanship, I notice) and begins to speak into my mp3 recorder.]

    You know how there are all these people trying to get out of the web? That ain’t me. What’ll happen if we escape? What do we go back to? A fucked-up, ruined planet covered in bones? Face it. Humanity has been constantly moving toward this point, ever since the net was born. It’s for the better, brah. We’ve evolved. [he takes another pull of the underclocker, and when he speaks again, it is slightly choppier as its data calms and slows his stress-frayed systems.]
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:07 No.3760512
    Or give you a chance that if you are hit you can sacrifice the proxy and not take damage.
    I think this shouldn't develop into a game of replicating memes and more of what it "would look like if it actually would be".
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:07 No.3760514
    I was made to be a surfer. Well I mean maybe not a surfer, specifically, but an explorer, an adventurer. But I was born into a world that had been discovered. No more secrets. Space itself was filled with our satellites, and besides, what’s out there, really? Just nothingness. No desert islands with forgotten tombs, no undiscovered realms. So I just stayed home and became another faceless consumer bureaucrat and I drowned my sorrows at this boring planet in videogames and booze and fat. [another silence.] When the Fall happened, I was browsing a forum I moderated, something about, fuck, I don’t know, some meatworld TV show or something. When I felt myself become digitized and the body I kept thinking was betraying me wasting away, I remember thinking relief, that I might be dying. Then when I materialized in the forum and saw the cybers pouring out of the links, I panicked. Ran to the first link I could find and jumped through and through some insane turn of luck ended up on my own comp. Some cybers broke through but my antivirus software fucked them up pretty bad. I grabbed for the first data deletion tool I could find (he gestures Spybot, currently in the form a serrated, crude-looking dagger). And that was when I realized I could fight back. And that’s when my life found its meaning.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:07 No.3760515
    I dislike this.
    Proxies are fine, and might have their place, sure, but they shouldn't be some mystical /b/-specific power.

    Something like /b/arbarian should, in addition, not have any crunch-related importance or implication, but rather be a pure fluff designation for certain members of a post-/b/ community.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:08 No.3760519
    A lot of people, for a while after the Fall, were confused as to why something *we* had created was so alien, so hostile and dangerous. They didn’t see the need for people like me, and some wandered out of the webfort walls confident they could find safe networks, trying to control what humanity had, after all, made itself. They didn’t get far. Business has picked up for Surfers now that everyone has recognized this new world for what it is. [he leans forward, a gleam in his eyes]. Just that. The NEW WORLD. The kilobytes turn to megabytes which flow into gigabytes to terabytes stretching off into infinity. Link after link, page after page. It’s unique, dangerous, exciting. I fucking love it. People like me, we’ve finally come into our own. [a roar sounds outside the walls of the tavern. Already, the constable of the settlement (in the form of a towering Grey Knight) is barking orders to his soldiers] Speaking of which… ‘scuse me.[He unslings the antivirus and heads for the door. He pauses for a moment before joining the battle.] In retrospect, I wouldn’t want it any other way. [He pulls out the old Spybot and heads out into the fray.]
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:10 No.3760538
    Indeed. The only reason I've even been using the old existing websites instead of figuring out new ones, is that making them up is hard and requires imagination.
    >> TIRED DRAWFAG 02/19/09(Thu)12:11 No.3760540

    Yeah, that was what i intended

    dude to the left is an epic level cracker.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:13 No.3760559
    Nah man... using Google in fluff is not only acceptable, it's actually in the spirit of the setting.

    Designing a power (application?) based purely on MUDKIPZ on the other hand would be pure faggotry.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:14 No.3760565
    Fair enough. I was just building on what someone else had already suggested.

    So then Proxy is just a more general buff which can be acquired as an Augment?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:18 No.3760596
    This writefag here. Holy shit did I make a lot of typos. If anyone ever uses it, could you do me a favor and correct it? I think I need to go to bed if I'm making this many errors.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:20 No.3760611
    Yeah... that would be the best way to do it...

    Defences ideas:
    Firewall - damages things that want to attack you directly or blocks "ranged" attacks.
    Proxy - sacrifice, avoid hit, the quality of the proxy would determine chance of success.
    Excess code - blank code that gives extra "HP" but encumbers you.
    Backup copy - can be used for healing but requires time and is cumbersome.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:23 No.3760628
    Another possible attribute:

    Robustness: how healthy your code is (essentially HP)
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:28 No.3760646
    Maybe we should call it Coherency instead?

    "Hello there. Your code seems to be quite coherent. I see you keep good care of yourself."
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:29 No.3760650
    I think a firewall would be better as either armor or straight up damage soak. That's more in line with what they actually do.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:30 No.3760657
    Fine by me. Robustness just keeps the theme of computer science terms.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:34 No.3760672
    So does coherence, in the context of programming both terms mean nearly the same and I just personally thing that "robustness" sounds a bit weird. Just that man.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:35 No.3760679
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    The OP is extremely impressed of the reception his idea has gained (Five threads? Hot damn!), and is therefore now posting two pieces of his drawfaggotry. They suck, but eh.

    Here's how I see an Old. I guess they all look extremely different, from a vaguely humanoid form, such as this one, to something utterly monstrous, and even invisible data steams. Kinda like Angels from Neon Genesis Evangelion: Look different, work in different ways, badass and almost indestructible.

    As for the guy in front, he's about to make a run for it, because he has no chance in hell - despite a fairly decent personal firewall (manifesting as a power armor or something), a power sword, and a totally kickass hero scarf.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:35 No.3760681
    We'll use that then.

    What about Bandwidth? There was a discussion earlier about using that as a speed stat.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:37 No.3760690
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    Huh. That's not supposed to be like that. Rotate it clockwise to see how it's supposed to be.

    Moving on. Here's a pretty high-level lurker. He's sacrificed his humanity a bit, as you can see from his left arm, which is not human.

    So that's that. Hope you enjoyed my sucky drawfaggotry.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:38 No.3760696
    I'd say that it shouldn't be a character stat. I suggested Capacity earlier.

    Bandwidth would be a link/location stat, it affects how much your current capacity affects motion.

    A high bandwidth server would let a high capacity entity move around freely, but on a low bandwidth path/server he'd have to sqeez through more slowly.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:47 No.3760758
    They become daemons..
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:48 No.3760767
    Makes sense. So then the previously Bandwith affecting attacks (like spamming) would just pile data on to you until your capacity was overloaded?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:51 No.3760784
    Yup. Also spamming would probably reduce bandwidth (consume it) so that everything in the affected area would move slower.
    Sort of like those MarioMoshpits in SL.

    Damn... this system might be... interesting if we ever manage to finish it.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:53 No.3760791
    I'd leave it up to the GM. If you want to pull a NO JOHN YOU ARE THE DEMONS go ahead, I'll probably just have them disappear and never return.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:56 No.3760810

    Data-spirits for the win!
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:56 No.3760811
    Definately. Which is why we should finish it.

    So programs as weapons. Perhaps certain programs are only worthwhile against cetain kinds of enemies? Say an antivirus which is highly effective against virii and maybe spyware, but worthless against a Cyber or another human?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:58 No.3760825

    I'd just like to note that a demon or daemon in IT already has a different meaning. A demon would be a constant area effect or a lasting but removable alteration to code... possibly buff items could be considered daemons. Once activated they last until taken off.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)12:59 No.3760830
    >So programs as weapons. Perhaps certain programs are only worthwhile against cetain kinds of enemies? Say an antivirus which is highly effective against virii and maybe spyware, but worthless against a Cyber or another human?

    A great majority should be equally effective to all enemies, however. But I support this regardless. It could be like an elemental system: Fire beats ice.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:02 No.3760854
    I was thinking it would make capacity a relevant stat, as the more capacity you have the more situations you are prepared for (but the slower you act in lower bandwidth situations). But yes, universal weapons should be relatively common.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:02 No.3760855
    I'd say most programs are more like fortifications or siege engines than a personal weapon - you don't carry an anti-virus program along with you, your webfort is surrounded by one.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:03 No.3760865

    There are different scales of program. A fortress wide antivirus and a hand held one are still the same type of program, even if their code is massively different. They both exist to repel and harm virii and other forms of malware.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:06 No.3760885
    This. One is just more massive than you could ever hope to have the capacity for.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:07 No.3760893
    Eh, I dunno. I feel a hand-held weapon would be in the area of simple scripts, rather than entire programs.
    You whack an oncoming virus with a standard-issue multi-purpose deletion script, and part of it is destroyed. You use a specialised script that targets virii in general or even that particular type or virus, and you'll see a greater effect. You don't hit it with an entire program.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:07 No.3760895
    Maybe we could separate it into damage types.
    It would be be more streamlined that way.

    Some weapons would be powerful but have a damage type that leaves them ineffective against most data entities, other would be good for everything but deal less damage.

    So a antiviri deals anitiviri damage.
    A viri hit with that type gets 2x more damage. But a cyber gets only 0.25x as much damage due to high resistance to antiviri algorithms.
    Or something like that.

    Actually... why do we need "weapons"? Wouldn't everything be consolidated into a single item type: data that has different uses and functions. Some data items allow you to make attacks or put up defensive fields, other allow you to boost skills or perform actions. The point is that there would be no item designated as weapon more like.

    "Add this item to your code. Gain:
    Application: Antiviri scan - detect viri in close proximity
    Application: Delete antiviri - deal X damage of antiviri type to target on successful Y.
    Daemon: Antiviri field - uses firewall slot to set up firewall with parameters Z, W and Q."

    Something like that maybe?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:08 No.3760903
    But how long until our enemies develop antihuman weapons?

    At this point, your level of integration would become even more relevant: 0% means you're highly vulnerable against antihuman, while at 70% you would have rather good resistance to it, but at the same time be weaker against something else.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:09 No.3760908

    This strikes me as semantics. Splitting programs up simply on terms of scale seems a bit arbitrary to me.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:12 No.3760930
    That actually would be necessary for the game to function... antihuman weaponry that is.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:14 No.3760942
    Also archives: Reduce capacity penalty, can't use until code is extracted.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:18 No.3760958
    How available are abilities to other Profiles? Could a lurker load up a few nice hacks, to take advantage of the gaps he can make in a Cybers armour? Could a coder learn a little probing, to help him better know the challenges ahead, and therefore prepare for them?

    I vote yes. Because, heck, this is the internet. Stuff is done by knowing how to do it. If you wanna pick up a trick or two, find someone to show you how. Which is why I like point-buy instead of class-based for this. Also why I suggested re-flavoring Mage's Spheres. Your abilities grow as you put points into it, but you only excel at higher levels. Still, its pretty freeform, and I think I'd like something that gives you specific abilities with more levels, instead of making you generally better at everything, while still that maintaining the cross-class flexibility.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:19 No.3760963
    Issue: copying items: If a praty has one instance of a specific tool they can probably get more by just copying code. The reason why not everyone has everything is because most entities guard their tools with a passion. Illegal download sites still function in a black market sort of way. You can try to get a tool but who knows if it has a virus or something? High level applications need to be registered to an user. Some characters can crack applications and tools, etc? Sounds good?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:19 No.3760967

    What would the spheres be? Hacking, Coding, Probing... I'll glance through the old threads.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:20 No.3760971
    Maybe we should work more in the field of archetypes for user profiles, sort of like how CTech works? You have "classes" there but they are only guidelines as to what you should take to be good at something.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:21 No.3760973

    You can't create data from nowhere. Copying an item is just giving you the blueprint. Then you need to assemble the code to make it function, which is only slightly easier than building the item from scratch. (Doesn't make as much sense, but much easier to balance)
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:25 No.3761008
    I'd prefer the Artifice database system to Mage's spheres. We could have the various 'user profiles' each be a tier zero, and you can get climb the tiers from there. For example, the zero tier Programming would lead into the Hacker and Coder class abilities and such, while Surfer would be the zero tier Veteran or something like that.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:25 No.3761011
    On the other hand this might be more interesting.
    A system where items function on a completely different basis. We could even go as far as some sort of compatibility and shells for avatars.

    "Dood, my avatar uses the Windows X shell, I'm incompatible with Crystal Linux tools."
    "Don't sweat man. This application is open source. It works on all shells, also we can copy it and there are no defence mechanisms."
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:25 No.3761012
    Virus/Cyber(For high levels) handling should be one.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:28 No.3761021
    Ugh... Fuck you. I'm now tempted to design a whole inventory system designed specifically for data.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:30 No.3761029
    That should be easy: There's no inventory at all, just carry weight. Measured in gigabytes.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:31 No.3761034
    Copying is an ability you must acquire, for one. It's not exactly low level either. Remember, copying may be easy for a user to accomplish, but we're not user. We are code.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:31 No.3761038
    Yeah. We already established it's called capacity.
    I mean something different - a subsystem for how different data interacts and how items work.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:33 No.3761046
    Try to stuff virus and antivirus into same inventory and SHIT HAPPENS.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:34 No.3761053
    Have things be compatible as a baseline, but throw in an odd incompatible object every once in a while. Have an augmentation that allows you a greater range of compatibility.

    We shouldn't have to worry about the OS of the avatar or the compatibility of every item, but have it pop up every once in a while.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:36 No.3761070
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:39 No.3761082
    Seemingly removing copy-paste in the future is pretty silly. Dumb like star trek.

    The way I see it, entirely new created programs, something a user throws together because he needs a tool, would probably be pretty easy to just give to someone else...when you have some downtime.(fuck if you're going to take your weapons offline to give them to someone else while fighting a cyber)

    Then there's opensource freeware. It is, by definition, open to everyone.

    On the other hand, the GOOD stuff, the pre-crash utilities? Company'd likely want you to give them money. And either require a CDkey, or a server-authorization check. I'd say, yeah, they can be cracked and propogated with effort. In fact, there are sites dedicated to that. I don't see them stopping when they're essental to survival. I kind of alluded to ebaums as being a rip-off black market in a previous thread.

    But attaining a fully functional piece of updated software? Thats a quest in it's own. A plothook, if you will. You stumble across a text file with a registration key, and a cryptic hint as to what it's for, but not the software. Or perhaps you're trying to find your way to the Kapersky webfort in order to verify some trial versions you looted from a damaged ftp node in a previous adventure - the advantages of a (possibly) working hyperlink tunnel being formed by running the update procedure, or co-opting that code for something would be worth checking out.

    The ooc version. Gear should be fairly simple. It should work, period. But good stuff, better versions? Might be cool to have little quirks to them. Take some effort to unlock something really cool. Just some possibilities for breaking the norm.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:40 No.3761090
    >>Freeware/open source
    If you can find a distributor, or a cache for it.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:46 No.3761121
    Data item:

    Name: name
    Capacity: capacity required to store it
    Type: .dll, .exe or .sys

    Type .sys:
    The users shell, I think three would be enough complications, for shit and lulz they could be derivatives of Windows, Linux and MacOS.
    Arch: Windows, Linux or MacOS
    Daemon slots: how many daemons can a shell run.
    Embeded: a list of embeded services (one shot abilities) and deamons (constant effects) the shell offers.

    Note that a within an arch we can have different shells.

    Type .dll:
    Code that does nothing but is needed for .exe data to run. Can be copied freely and never has any safety mechanisms. Would add complexity to inventory management - you'd try to fit data items together to use as little .dlls as possible.

    Type .exe:
    Arch: what archs are supported, can be more than one or even all.
    Lib: list of .dlls needed to run it, can be nothing.
    Copy protect: type and difficulty of copy protection, would come in different types and need different tactics to circumvent.
    Applications: list of services and deamons the .exe offers. could be as much as one or as many as a dozen for complex data items, could be of various usefulness.

    (Yeah. I know that extensions don't work that way, but it would be at least coherent for players.)
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:47 No.3761126
    So.... Cybers, Olds, Viruses, Worms, /b/arbarians and /b/andits... any other monsters we can make? Cultists of the Dark God? Perhaps trolls?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:55 No.3761172

    Its not removing copy paste from the future. Its saying that, from a different perspective, its not that easy. But whatever, copy paste is okay if thats the general consensus.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)13:58 No.3761190
    Capacity: 1.0
    Arch: Windows
    Deamon slots: 5
    - (S) Windows Interface II: blah blah... blah!
    - (D) Windows Firewall II: blah blah blah...
    - etc.

    Capacity: 0.2

    Capacity: 0.5
    Arch: Windows, MacOS
    Lib: Norton.dll
    Copy protect: level 5 Activation Code
    - blah blah blah...
    - etc.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:00 No.3761197
    Like... I dunno... oher people. Data entities that just sort of lost it, hostile AI drones, ICE...
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:00 No.3761199
    Why would the cplayers have an OS? They're more like files than computers.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:03 No.3761218
    I know, right?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:03 No.3761219
    For the lulz and added conplexity. Also, not an OS but a shell. A reminder of what they used to browse the net before being sucked in that later turned into their... "body" - a way for the to interact with the world they've been forced to inhabit.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:03 No.3761224
    I like the dll and exe idea. It encourages players to specialize. It also makes for an easy quest hook: you found a powerful but obscure exe, now go find the dll.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:08 No.3761261
    Seems a bit out of fluff to me. And maybe a little too complex. I would just assume everyone is on a certain baseline, then allow them to purchase augmentations which modify those attributes.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:10 No.3761280
    >windows programs only
    >final destination

    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:13 No.3761330
    There are countless different types of cybers, viruses, and AIs around: All the monsters and creatures we come up with should fit into those three. I mean, worms are just other kind of virus, aren't they? And Olds are, technically, just pretty damn old and powerful AIs.

    Viruses: Mindless monsters of varying power.

    Cybers: Sometimes mindless, but often quite intelligent and human-like. Created by the Internet, mostly work for it - though there are some that work independently and have their own agenda.

    AI: Serve humans by default, unless corrupted. Created by humans before the Fall. Sometimes just drones programmed for simple duties, often capable of self-learning, potential for human intelligence.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:15 No.3761343

    Seems a bit needlessly complex, really.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:17 No.3761356
    Should all of the Olds have three red eyes? It seems to be a common theme in the writefagery so far, and could be used as a unifying concept- if you see a giant horrible thing with three red eyes, RUN.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:20 No.3761385
    The three eyes could be the only thing uniting them all. Otherwise they can be anything from a giant hulking humanoid to a shapeless blob.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:23 No.3761413
    What's a virus? I run *nix boxes.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:26 No.3761431

    Sentient virii. They find open source Linux, and then adapt to it. YOU ARE DOOMED.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:30 No.3761468
    While no one is going to be entirely immune to virii, there should be an augmentation or something by which one could make himself less vulnerable to virii. But, in return, they are less compatible with useful programs. Additional augmentations could perhaps lessen this drawback with things like emulators.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:47 No.3761582
    Should have made him said "You shall not pass!". Fuck yeah netpunk Gandalf.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:54 No.3761647
    Gandalf would be an epic level hacker - and not only that, but a fragment taken from the Internet, a demi-god. Balrog = Old.

    Enough with LotR references, but I do like the idea that some parts of the Internet would be small and relatively weak, walking among humans as demi-gods or something.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)14:57 No.3761665
    Yea, some of the smaller fragments would bind themselves to human leaders (such as Moot) making them epic level characters.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:01 No.3761696

    Leeway is good. Internet is mostly about creativity anyway.

    Additionally the chances that a large and malevolent creature such as an Old has not made any refinements to itself over the years is somehow low.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:14 No.3761773
    Yeah but there has to be a hint of the ancient there. Very Cthulu-esque.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:17 No.3761792
    So for defenses, we have Firewalls and Proxies. Anything else we could use?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:26 No.3761857

    I had an idea, and I don't think it came up in any of the previous threads: People who use viruses on a regular basis risk being infected with it themselves. This is especially true of those crazy fools who ride them.

    The viruses of the future net are probably all sentient to a certain extent, even the ones that are created specifically by humans. They probe the limits of their restrictions and patiently wait for even the slightest slip on the part of the person who controls them.

    I mean, using a virus must be a crazy dangerous thing for a being entirely made of data. Anyone who gets near them would fear getting infected, in case the code leashes and cages they are in are not quite as secure as the person who built them thought they were. And that's not taking into account the ones with a degree of AI and evolving capacity - eventually, one of this type will find a way to escape or even corrupt their cages. And that won't be good for anybody nearby, especially not the rider/herder.

    It would be a bit like Demon mastery in a fantasy setting - if you've got the wards and the will you have a powerful ally, but an ally that hates you and will rip you apart if you make even the slightest mistake handling them. And anyone who sees you with your servant is going to get away from you as fast as possible so that they don't get destroyed with you.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:31 No.3761885

    Hm. Try looking at the Alternity(or its d20 future Grid material) for ideas. They've got cyberweapons and armor and utilities and shit.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:33 No.3761902
    Good idea. If you get too infected, the virus takes over you and you become a Trojan.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:41 No.3761971
    Get yourself a decent virus protection with an automatic updater and you'll be pretty safe. But not 100%.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:45 No.3762000
    I just downloaded it, and that all looks like implants and stuff. That's not what we need, we're not quite cyberpunk so much as netpunk. We need stuff that's all digital. Although I could be looking at the wrong section, please tell me if I missed it.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:46 No.3762009
    >automatic updater
    And those updates come from... where, exactly? You'd have to have a coder work directly on the program if you wanted to update it.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:48 No.3762027
    Creature idea: Black hole theory applied to data. Massive amounts of immensely compressed data (and thus great power and resistance to almost all forms of attack, could be a high level beast) that seeks to devour the rest of the Internet. If you are wounded by anything else, people can still gather enough data about you to patch you up, but any wound from those can never be fixed (needs to be replaced completely) as it absorbs and integrates all data it comes in contact with. And by doing that, it gains the programs used by those it devours, as well as getting smarter. Say, one of those things catch a Virus Herder. Next time you see it, it could have a small retinue following (though it is not above eating some of the virii once in a while, whenever it gets "hungry") If it takes an antivirus program, it will end up being more resilient against viral attacks.

    For obvious reasons, those who have taken significant numbers of Probers and Hackers are a great threat to Webforts and hunted down actively as they can breach firewalls. While capable of great damage, they're a mostly neutral force and don't care where they get their "food" from as long as they get it.

    Black hole theory, as I recall, claims that they are perfect spheres. I like the idea of a sphere nonchalantly floating in the air while all hell breaks loose around it, a tornado of data swirling around with the creature at its very center, feeding. Kind of like that Dirac Sea angel from Evangelion.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:51 No.3762052
    Maybe that's why they've been portrayed as cocky bastards. Live you life on the edge surrounded by things that might soon destroy you, acting cocky might be the only response. Although I guess they should get a bit of boost in power to compensate for the danger. More VIRUS SWARM things like in that story. Also cowboy hats. Fuck yeah cowboy hats.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:56 No.3762092
    Maybe that could be a web crawler?
    >> Project Kurtz !cfZiGIAqOg 02/19/09(Thu)15:58 No.3762107
    Let's think of something with antagonists. Virii, bots, cybers, the dark god of the internet, and the Olds are all nice and good, but I'm thinking in terms of BBEG material.

    What if there was a way for a person to merge with or even just become a cyber?
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)15:59 No.3762118
    Well wasn't there a cult for the dark god? Sounds like something that could be on their agenda.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:01 No.3762131
    Trolls can be pretty much that. People who allied with the forces of evil and pretty much became one with them.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:01 No.3762140
    There was some fluff in the first thread about a guy who merged himself with a virus, becoming some sort of a hybrid. He'd be pretty good BBEG for somewhat higher level characters.

    Otherwise, we'd have cyber warlords, leading armies of cybers against webforts; powerful rogue AIs, escaping from human control and gone insane; for higher level characters, there would be powerful singlular monsters escaped from Google; and humans as well, working against other people and webforts for their own sinister reasons. Only to throw a few examples.

    A bit of imagination is all you need. It's not all that hard. BBEGs in other settings usually aren't much more than that, either.
    >> Project Kurtz !cfZiGIAqOg 02/19/09(Thu)16:03 No.3762150
    True enough, I suppose.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:05 No.3762172
    Best BBEG so far: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/3734899/#3741288

    >"There are some who would call me a monster. I don't blame them especially. People have always hated and feared what they do not understand. But I do weep for them some times. They will never experience the holy terror, and the power, and the glory of the Virus in the same way as I do.

    >I was like you once. A humble netizen, a collection of zeroes and ones with little purpose, little understanding of the true nature of this place. I toiled on the data runs, I defended my little fort and, in my ignorance, I believed that I was content.

    >And then it happened. That glorious day when my eyes were opened and I finally saw the truth. The viruses were not the enemy! They were the true masters of this realm, these beings of incontestable purity, not us. Where we were doubtful, they were precise. Where we were distracted, they were focused. Where we lived in fear of their very presence, they were utterly and completely fearless. Perfect.

    >That is why I opened the floodgates and extinguished the firewalls. That is why I submitted myself to the roaring hurricane of toxic data and allowed one of the holy virii to integrate with my digital soul. That is why I stand before you now, changed beyond recognition by the powers that have touched me.

    >Embrace the truth. Embrace the light. Embrace the virus.”
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:17 No.3762300
    >Best BBEG so far

    He's the ONLY BBEG so far.

    He also reminds me of Nurgle.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:18 No.3762325

    How about characters can call in "updates" from their webfort if they have a coder there working for them... Would work well for script kiddies, but be one way and would make their position clear to nearby Cybers. So it would be usable in battle but not so much if you are trying to avoid conflict. It could take a lot of energy or power or whatever things run on on the Internet, so it can be used rarely
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:24 No.3762385
    And of course, they'd have to detect those virii first, so even if they come up with an update that lets the virus control block this new threat, it won't help that poor sod who caught it first.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:41 No.3762514
    Trolls aren't smart or active enough to be BBEGs. They'd be causing small trouble and generally be dicks, but probably wouldn't be evil enough to actually go and cause the fall of an entire webfort or something.

    Though there could be exceptions.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:42 No.3762522
    So basically a virus is vulnerable to antivirus weapons, unless they're specified to be new and thus not vulnerable to the program? By defeating, you could get its code and bring it in for an upgrade?

    As long as it doesn't come up too much, it should be fine. But the majority of the time, the player's weapons should work as expected. Otherwise there's no point to carrying an antivirus in the first place.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:44 No.3762540
    There'd be limits for upgrading, of course: You couldn't just stick everything you find into your equipment and yourself - it'd be based upon your level and the type of your equipment.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:45 No.3762551
    Makes sense. Given that the Webforts always seek to keep their data up-to-date, if you do find a rare new virus, the bounty of bringing its data to the Fort could also be the worth the initial difficulty posed by the new virus.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:48 No.3762575
    For some reason, the first thing that popped into my head was "Oh god, Internet AIDS that keeps changing and changing"
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:48 No.3762578
    What, you mean bring in the virus? Nah I think that's a Herder's job.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:49 No.3762582
    Trolls are kind of redundant, since Cybers and the Dark God are pretty much representative of all the trolling and hate of the internet already.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:49 No.3762587
    You guys are making this way too complex. Simpler is better.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:50 No.3762590
    Mmyeah, the bunch would probably lose interest when there's very real trouble around them.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:50 No.3762591
    Nah, just kill it and bring back its remains, where experienced Coders and Herders can inspect it and devise a method to counter/tame it.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:52 No.3762607
    Back when the internet was the internet, they said a lot of things. They said you couldn't get lost, that all the information you could want was here. They said the more integrated the web was with real life, the more humanity would prosper. They said data packets can sometimes get lost, never to be seen again.

    They said a lot of things. None of them are true.

    When the Great Shift came, my wife's connection was...bad. Her data was lost, forever. Just another instance of data loss, right? I wandered the forlorn landscape of humanity's best collection of knowledge for God knows how long. I did odd jobs for Wikipedia for what I can only imagine was years, but nobody knows how time passes these days. Finally, they let me research what possibly happened to her.

    That led me here. Nothing but my search for her could have. The middle of nowhere.

    It was there, that I was attacked by them. These...weren't cybers, but they weren't exactly humans either. Something was different about them. They were more human than Cybers, and more Cyber than humans. One of them was both my wife...and very much not her.

    Data never got lost in the internet. Data only got misplaced and forgotten. Data sat in the dark, dank depths of the internet watching, waiting for the day when they can take their revenge on the humans that have forgotten them.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:52 No.3762612


    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:55 No.3762630
    Alright, if no one else can think of a defensive tool, then we might as well work on the ones we have.

    Firewalls serve as our 'armor' system. Hackers (aka casters) can't use powerful firewalls because they interfere with their abilities. Firewalls should be our bread and butter defensive technique. Proxies on the other hand are more like evasion. They provide a chance for attacks to hit the proxies instead of you.

    In my opinion Proxies should be temporary measures, more like one use items then repeatable effects. You use them when the chips are down, not during run of the mill battles.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:55 No.3762631
    We're collapsing! It's autosaging again!
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:56 No.3762635
    The thread! It is autosaging!
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)16:56 No.3762637
    >In my opinion Proxies should be temporary measures, more like one use items then repeatable effects. You use them when the chips are down, not during run of the mill battles.

    I got the impression that proxies would be something hackers put on themselves: More temporary than firewalls, but not interfering with their abilities.
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)17:00 No.3762671
    New thread!
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)17:02 No.3762688
    >> Anonymous 02/19/09(Thu)17:17 No.3762779
    >Trolls aren't smart or active enough to be BBEGs

    A group of men approached CALU's modest defense wall.

    The Webfort perimeter wall opened almost immediately. Links and other news broadcasts had been unreliable at best recently, so Administrator Luann decided to let the travelers to try and get some information.

    She paused for a moment. "Apologies, formalities first." A small device was produced from her pocket and she whipped it back and forth in front of the visitors as per anti-virus protocols.

    "Greeting, my name is Administrator Lua ---" She suddenly went silent. Time seemed to stop and she had just realized how badly she had erred. Now the entire university was about to pay a price in blood because of her.

    The men in front of her started to smile. Dressed in relatively modest casual wear from the late 90s, they didn't seem too threatening. Looks can be deceiving.

    The man in front smiled so hard you could see his wisdom teeth. So hard that it seemed to pain him. The others did the same.

    The administrator continued to stare at her little device. The words "GNAA" flashed repeatedly with a quiet urgency.

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