I would, but I think I'm the only person in my group who knows anything about the universe in detail. Without background books and stuff it would be pretty hard to convey the complexity of the universe to people who aren't familiar with it.

Also like anything else their is potential for epic faggotry "ZoMGZ!1!! I want to be a soul reaver!!1!"

But I dunno if they released an RPG I would play it but I wouldn't try to do it from scratch.

It would also depend on which era you were intending to run a campaign in - the Hylden/Elder conflict, Sarafan times, William-the-Just and Moebius, whenever BO2 was set, Kain's Empire when Raziel got the boot or Kain's Empire when it was a blasted wasteland filled with monsters.

Actually, a game where the players were vampires of different clans at the time Raziel got chucked into the lake would be pretty cool. They could be tasked with wiping out Raziel's clan.

>>3631810
>Actually, a game where the players were vampires of different clans at the time Raziel got chucked into the lake would be pretty cool. They could be tasked with wiping out Raziel's clan.

Several months ago I mentioned this very idea in a post on a Kain thread, in which there were just the 5 clans to choose from, all with different strengths and weaknesses (even Turelim, as sound paralyzes them with their big ears). Razielim is out of the question because 1) they are ordered for execution, 2) Overall, they are the most powerful clan in every form and would be unbalanced

>>3631826

Was it the flying thing? Because I'm not sure that the Razielim would nescessarily have working wings at that time- just because the Clan leader got wings doesn't mean that the lesser vampires also had them. It looks from the way they evolve in SR1 that Kain goes first, then the lieutenants, then the older ones in the clan, then the fledglings. When Raziel got the boot, the rest of his clan may only have got appendages that could have evolved into wings given time.

Although yes, I agree that the Razielim should be the antagonists - that's what I was driving at in >>3631810

>>3631888

Raziel got the biggest portion of Kain's Dark Gift, and in turn his clan would be the most powerful.

One on one, his clan would (I guess) take on another clan and beat it.

But with the rest of the clans united, the clan would fall.


Hence, enter the Legacy of Kain Roleplaying Game (insert catchy subtitle) as you in a team of the 5 other clans work together to travel through out Nosgoth carrying out various tasks, one of which is mainly to purge the Razielim that are in hiding after the initial massive genocidal attack by the entirety of the 5 clans

>>3631931

Hmmm, yes. Of course, even so, Raz's lot would have to have some kind of big weakness. I was thinking perhaps water, as it's not an environment that a flying creature naturally adapts to and even in wraith form it burned Raziel (it burns Kain too, doesn't it?). Added to that, the difference between Razielim and the Turelim / Dumahim shouldn't be that big - judging by the way they evolve, perhaps the Turelim get much bigger and stronger, the Dumahim much more heavily armoured and harder to kill and the Razielim get faster?

Naturally they'll be strong and tough as the first-born, and probably with a number of supernatural 'magic' gifts as well, but if they intend to fly then their bodies can't get too massive. Maybe their bones were going to get lighter, like birds, making them vulnerable against physical attack. It would fit their gift (flight) and gives them a weakness to balance their good abilities.

We could make the Turelim and Dumahim Tank type classes that could engage in close combat while the others are more support. Either of those two could be matched against a Razilim and take a beating, but still come out on top eventually.

You could also have demonic incursions and human based quests - maybe helping the vampire cultists to establish themselves, or sneaking into the city to destroy an artefact.

>>3632067

I gotta go in a little bit, but these are some good points you make

Here's bit more of mine

Dumahim have the most hit points, but not as strong as a Turelium (Defense, then Offense)

Rahabim are your long range specialists, as I'm sure the stuff they spewed out of their mouths was something like a hot water (plasma maybe?) rather than the telekinetic projectile most people associate with the Turelim

Zephon's clan are your steath and flanking type, very agile and the sort.

Melchiah's are a similar type, but are better at steath due to their state-changing ability (I always believed that Melchiah got Kain's gift to change the state of matter, aka the gas thing but at a lower level, and that in turn helped in Melchiah's inability to maintain his body mass) as they can hide in the ground and also can gain access through areas that would normally be blocked off save for a small small opening

This RPG concept has massive potential, I hope this thread is still here when I get back

>>3632135

Melchiah's lot could also have a side order of necromancy as well, given that their leader was the one to crack shifting between spectral and material. Perhaps they could be able to communicate with the lost souls, or in a pinch feed from them? Doing so could lead to massive penalties like an inability to feed from blood, forcing the vampire to kill something to feed.

Also, spectral realm allows players to come back from the dead. Provided that the body of their charecter isn't too horribly mangled/burned/soaked/spiked and their teamates recover it and move it somewhere dark and quiet, then the PC's soul could reenter their body. You could even have a mini adventure where the soul of the PC vampire has to survive in the spectral realm until their body heals. If they stay too long, or they intentionally eat one of the lost souls, then they might gain the soul hunger. Heck, worst case scenario, they might draw the attention of the Elder God!

>>3631810
>>3631826
>>3631888
>>3631931
>>3632067
>>3632135
>>3632304

PROCEED

>>3632304
you should also add a temp penalty to coming back to life like that

>>3632605

Good idea! Aside from coming back at low health ravenous for blood or souls, perhaps you could come back disorientatied. Perhaps while your soul tries to reattach to your body you have a view of the Spectral realm overlayed over the top of your normal vision - you see gaps that aren't there in the material world, see enemies that nobody else does. Perhaps in the "between" realms state you can be attacked by both spectral and material creatures? Your party is wandering through an abandoned temple and for them everything is fine, but for the recently resurected vampire it's more "DEAR GOD SO MANY SLAUGH! THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!!". Even better, since nobody else can see them, the resurectee is on their own and appears to be slashing at thin air.

>>3632304
>>3632605
>>3632710

Since a freshly killed vampire's soul is weak and not formed, it's in danger of being attacked by the slaugh as you know, and I like the idea of the little mini-adventure


Also, if you choose to advance the main storyline instead, you chance to have your character roll every few turns, as the rest of his team moves on with the body, to see if he will survive the spectral realm long enough to either come back to life (unless it's a special circumstance) and even become a wraith, which would boost his power if he ever comes back

This will have to be worked on to somehow make it work, but I love this idea so far

>>3632759

Becoming a wraith might make you stronger, but it might also drive you mad - wasn't there a mention of this in the first soul reaver? Perhaps Wraith Vampires have a "frenzy" talent and/or halve whatever stat we will eventually use for intelligence or wisdom?

Another thought - does a wraith have to return to its original body, or can it possess another? Raziel uses long dead bodies to planeshift in Defiance after all, and wraiths don't look anything like the vampires from which they come.

Actually, it was just the flight thing.

Raziel was a generic vampire. Super strength, high speed, etcetra.

The problem is in a situation with ancient weaponry and only having one type of decent ranged weaponry (bows) it becomes incredibly difficult to kill the fuckers.

Of course, it takes awhile to develop flight.

LoK is the one exception to my "Vampires are fucking retarded faggots" rule. I will be watching this thread with great interest.

>>3632807

The first Soul Reaver originally was going to have souls look like the enemies they killed (abet in a distorted humanoid shape), but graphic limitations or some coding error had them change to the ball shape

As for the wraith, we can expand on the old game with new stuff, as EVERY Legacy of Kain game retcons old canon with new stuff, like with there only being one Heart of Darkness

>>3632869

seconded

The series was always about ambition and plot advancement

And NO fucking romance (Blood Omen 2 doesn't count because Kain KILLED the bitch for betraying him, a man who sticks to his principles)

PROCEED /tg/

Well here's my contribution

The various dark gifts that the clans got:


Raziel: Overall best vampire clan, earned Kain's charm ability. Think about it, that voice is quite compelling to listen to. Received biggest portion of Kain's gift and as such as stronger vampire abilities to draw upon. Rest to expand upon. (unplayable clan)

Turel: Second most powerful LT, special ability is telekinesis (naturally). Clan focused on becoming stronger and faster than Raziel's, but the big ears render them paralyzed from extreme sound. Rest to expand upon.

Dumah: Third most powerful. Warrior-type, very proud. Durability is the clan's main feature, weaker in strength than the Turelim but can take more punishment. Berserk gift, or something similar.

Rahab: Manipulation of energy, like lightening. Knowledgable type, more suited to long distance attacks (like with the hot water/plasma projectiles in the game). Eventually gains immunity to water, but must be wrapped in heavy light-blocking clothing to venture out in Nosgoth's dismal sunlight.

Zephon: Wall climber, stealthy. Very weak against fire due to insect-like powers. Sorta spidermanish, but not as swingy. Needs to be expanded upon better.

Melchiah: Weakest, and as such the durability is the weakest as well as the ability to hold in the flesh. But has one of the most unique gifts, as the clan obviously earned the ability to change the state of matter with the going through gates, small cervices, going into the dirt, etc etc. Very weak against even raindrops and snow due to body degradation.


This is just a starter, we can expand upon this /tg/

>>3632841

>The problem is in a situation with ancient weaponry and only having one type of decent ranged weaponry (bows) it becomes incredibly difficult to kill the fuckers.

Well, it must be possible to take them out given that the Hylden and Sarafan managed to take out the Elder ones. And the Elders were far more advanced, and had always had those massive angelic wings, rather than having just developed them. The Razieliem, if they even had wings, would still be learning to adapt to them. We also don't know if Raziel could even have properly flown anyway - I'd guess that he could glide, as he could as a wraith, but may not have been capable of sustained flight. Pure conjecture of course, and I'm sure vampiric powers could smooth out the difficulties.

>>3633047

Raziel's clan would not have had the gift so soon

He would be the first of course, but then after he got tossed into the lake, Kain would order the other clans to exterminate the rest of the clan.

And I'm sure there's quite a few that fled into the lands as outcasts, and Kain charges special teams to hunt them down.


By then, I'm sure there would be quite a few Razielim who would have "evolved" and become horrific degenerate winged beasts like the other clans since they were the first to evolve (they probably forced their evolution too, in hopes of a futile strike against Kain's forces and get revenge for the death of their lord)

>>3633047

Yes. Both of whom had lots of magic, time travel, and an insane number of people to "pour into the breach," as it were. Also there was the blood curse and demons.

Yeah, you saw them, then the wings got broken'd. Never saw if he could fly or not.

Presumably they could. I wasn't saying it was -impossible- to kill them, just a pain in the butt, since the best way the ground-bound vampires could do it would be to throw spears.

And since they're of similar strengths... Kind of annoying, really.

>>3631810
why not have a book for each era

Somehow I don't feel the Razielim would be the kind of dudes to fly around tossing magic at people that couldn't get to them.

Raziel himself was more noble than all his brothers, I suspect some of his progeny might even ruin their own wings (assuming any of them managed to gain the gift) as tribute to their fallen sire.

>>3633239

Good idea. That would also open up time travel to players. Which is something I think shouldn't be ignored seeing as it's one of the (if not the) biggest theme to the series.

>>3632710
also for every time the character goes into the spectral realm increases the chance that the Elder God will find them

>>3633290

Take an arcane defense test to resist the wheel. Failure means the DM takes control of your character until you or your companions free you.

I think the setting of the original Blood Omen would make the best campaign setting if you aren't playing vampires only. Plenty of towns still around, though most of them in shitty condition, the corrupted pillars, and a lot more monster variety in the countryside.

>>3633271
with that you will also need to stat out the Guardians for when you go back in time to the eras that they are still alive in

I agree about the blood omen setting being the best to start with.

Ariel dead, Nupraptor makes the rest of the guardians go kooky and Kain's still just growing up to be a poncy noble.

Perfect time for players to be either vampires or humans and not dick around with established story much.

I could only do this if the DM had the voice of Tony Jay.

may he rest in peace

this guy must be put into the books during the time before Kain's empire

>>3633351
holy shit, that's the voice of the elder god

>>3633351


Rest in peace, Mr. Jay

>>3633422
>>Rest in peace Mistah Jay

>>3633406

If an Anonymous were to say...set up a forum for this idea, would other Anon's be interested?

>>3633434

I lol'ed because as I hit the submit button, I knew it would sound like that


But BACK ON TOPIC, for this thread is becoming increasingly awesome and incredible potential for a kickass RPG in one of the most beloved and fantastic vampire fictions ever made.

Actually, I like this series better than any vampire lore out there, it's just so damn good.

Equipment:

What sorts? Although vampires do use claws for natural defense and stuff, swords and axes and that similar shit is used extensively, especially by Kain

Armor is also used, why? Kain did it.

>>3633480
Armor is used because a massive beating would take any vampire down. Cut off a vampires legs, and it's pretty much useless.

Not to mention they can still get taken down by a sufficiently pointy stick

>>3633480
for weapons i would say anything goes

>>3633558

Nosgoth weapons ONLY

Lots of polearms
Random martial weapons
absolutely no asian weapons of any kind for the love of god if I see one more wakizashi I'm going to tear my own head off

>>3633591
also lots for improvised weapons

>>3633599
>of

>>3633591
Yeah, the only japanese style weapon I cans see being in Nosgoth are those three clawed things.

Really, a majority of weapons would be ones that could keep opponents at a distance. You don't want a vampire getting in claw-length of you.

>>3633635
Oh, and naginata.

Also, I'm willing to make a forum for this if any one is interested. Otherwise this thread will be forgotten pretty soon after it's gone.

>>3633474

I would. I have to go to bed now, so I have to hope that this is still here tomorrow.

>>3633656

Perhaps I should mention that I'm one half of this conversation >>3632568 and a number of other posts. So yeah, very interested.

>>3633670
>>3633656
FUCK YEAR!! A forum for 3 people.

Any ideas for a domain name?

This anon will read and post on such a forum.

Okay I'm setting it up now.

It's not ready, but I'm thinking www.razielim.com
Could change though, because I may use the fact that I'm in control to witter about an Outlaw Star campaign.

This thread has my approval

Well done /tg/

Well looking at the clans there powers are obvious.

Melchahim - Enhanced Strength, and Ability to dig.

Zephonim- Enhanced Speed, Agility, Wall Walking, as well as poison.

Rahabim- Ability to swim, Limited Water Manipulation, Weakness to Sun light.

Dumahim- Armored (Enhanced Toughness), Long Tongue

Turelim- TK, Super-Hearing

okay, forum is open for registration and crap. Linky:

http://razielim.phpbbhosts.co.uk/index.php

Also, I've made a sub-section for other ideas, if anyone is interested.
Currently, I'm not fussed about wether or not phbbb is crap or anything, but if things actually take off, I'll look into getting a proper domain and such like.

Bump for awesome

Thread is awesome, despite shortness but has much potential for future /tg/ talk


Archive?

>>3634702
http://4chanarchive.org/

Or join the forum if you haven't already.

bumping thread again


the forum is in the early stages it seems, so more support would be liked considering the awesomeness this thread and the ideas within present

>>3634082
I think Melchahim should have limited control over living flesh, just as a bit of an added bonus and more of an incentive past "digging". nothing major, maybe a form of shape-shifting.

>>3632841
>>
The problem is in a situation with ancient weaponry and only having one type of decent ranged weaponry (bows) it becomes incredibly difficult to kill the fuckers.

Vampire hunters had crossbows with flaming bolts if I remember quickly. As far as I know, human society was never really explained past them having a hidden city and being cattle.

It's entirely possible they developed crap like bolts tipped with glass vials of holy water to shoot at vampires. Which would be awesome.

Personally, I'd be a faggot and do a story very similar to the games themselves. I.e. starting them off as human against the corrupted guardians, and then having them die against vampire hordes before waking up again near the end of time.

>>3635026
See, I was thinking humans would have a very hard time of it. For the most part, you'd have to make Vampires, generic or from a clan, very rare.

They'd be better off killing cultists and such. While not as exciting, they won't die as quickly.

Going to go ahead and repost my suggestion on the forums here:

I'd suggest coming up with at least three different "Epochs" the game could be set in to cover the most kinds of play and campaign styles available. You'd have one at roughly the time of Blood Omen with a large human population and substantial amount of vampires around to create a good sense of interplay between the two races. This era offers the most possibilities because you're not locked into the series storyline yet and anything is possible.

The second one would be roughly around the time of Raziel's fall, mainly for vampire-only play since humans have been reduced to cattle and offering the playability of the castes discussed in the original thread (They wouldn't exist yet in the first epoch). This would be good for creating and explore vampire society and socialization with all that haughty sense of nobility while everyone tries to gain Kain's favor through various means, chief of which lately is exterminating the most Razielim. Kinda like a Dragon-Blooded game in Exalted, I suppose.

>>3635074

Theoretically the third epoch should be one where humans are basically the only race to play. I see two possibilities for this: One set after Soul Reaver in the post-apocalyptic future where Kain has abandoned the world and all the major vampire lords are dead, leaving only their mindless children prowling the barren landscape for food. You'd play humans in that one hidden city still left venturing outwards to substantiate the truth of those rumors and attempting to discover what, if any way there is to continue to survive. Some interesting gameplay ideas would be needed here to spice things up and not make playing as humans incredibly boring, I should think. The option obviously would be during time of the Serafim for plenty of crusading and hapless vampire (and suspected vampire) massacres.

The best part is that use of time travel would allow visiting to any of these settings (Or even your own original ones depending on PC actions) no matter where the campaign starts. Althought it made for questionable storyline development in the game, I do not think we should ignore this factor of the LoK series as it contains a lot of possibilities for a campaign.

>>3635051

Humans brought vampires to the brink of extinction several times -and- managed to kill one of the Vampire Lords all on their own well after Kain's ascendancy. I would not sell them short personally and there should definitely be the option to create a human-based campaign that isn't tremendously boring and disconnected from vampires.

>>3633376
heh, Nosgoth's resident pimp

Just posting to say this an excellent idea. Making and RPG might be the best way to give closure to the LoK series that we will surely never get from the non-existent final game.

http://razielim.phpbbhosts.co.uk/index.php

Pimping the forums again.

JOIN YOU FUCKS

In Nosgoth, there can be ancient dungeons and whatnot with forgotten technology of the Hylden and what not


I mean, look at the Builder and the Mass in Blood Omen 2. Freaky shit, like that.

Rune Swords, tied directly to the soul which vampires derive their magic from.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but in the first Soul Reaver, the human city had flicking electric lights, as well as did Melchiah's Necropolis with the industrial machinery.


Nosgoth is a mix of magic and science, who knows what you may find in this dying world

>>3635156
Right, I'm going to have to replay these games. Glad I held onto my copy them.

>>3635124
Yeah, tell me about it!

This thread is awesome, and so is that forum that was created

Haven't posted anything in there yet, just lurking and seeing how things go

And so far, it's good. I seriously think we can get somewhere with this Nosgothic RPG, /tg/

>>3635085
See, I don't doubt how effective they are, but only really in groups. I imagine impaling him on his own fortress would have been a massive operation.

>>3635225
Not to mention they didn't actually kill him, more just disable him.

>>3635225

They're definitely going to be all about strength in numbers and all, but I still think you could create human heroes who stand above normal men, able to stand toe to toe with weak to mid-tier levels vampires. If you got such individuals all together in a normal adventuring party, they'd perhaps even be capable of taking on the higher-tier ones.

>>3635298
I think they'd need to have something to help them though. If you're familiar with Sister Of Battle, they have an Acts Of Faith system that could be quite useful.

Basically, their devotion to their chosen deity is so strong, they're inspired to super-human feats of strength and endurance, I think that would work quite well, but they only have a limited number of Acts they can use, and the only way to get the back is for someone to become a martyr.

So, perhaps you encounter a vampire, you get into a rough situation and a PC decide to use an Act that sets their weapon aflame, but he can't use another one until, say, they witness a companion nearly die or they spend X amount of time fasting/praying to restore their faith.

>>3635156
>>Nosgoth is a mix of magic and science, who knows what you may find in this dying world

I think that's what makes it quite a compelling world. Especially in the period before/during/after Raziel.

Not much of the history or the culture is touched upon, but you're given enough that you're imagination can fill in the blanks, but you're shown enough that it becomes a very dark, gothic and unique setting.

Also, bump.

Right, final bump and Legacy Of Kain RPG forum link whore for the night, as I have to go to bed because it's 4am.

http://razielim.phpbbhosts.co.uk/index.php

If the one of the epochs is set in the future with the dying lands, could a random Hylden encounter be done?

And it's only after several levels before the party has a chance of defeating it, considering the Hylden were the equals of the Ancients, with science vs faith/magic.

final bump from me, it's bedtime


For the rest of anon here:


KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE


The only vampire fiction that hasn't been fagged up yet and is still a cult symbol away from the public masses is close to having a great massive discussion about the mechanics of this RPG to the fullest

Keep it alive /tg/, for Kain and the entire Legacy of Kain saga

Bump.
Because this has the most potential I have ever seen in a /tg/ thread.

Keep it going guys.

Can someone pack all the setting shit into a less "tl;dr" format?

>>3635836

A Hylden encounter would be like a miniboss, because of how powerful they are

I mean hell, they were able to control Turel, and Turel is a master of telekinesis

Not to mention, their ability to summon demons (I think that was them) and make them attack the party

Since Defiance, it is implied that demons would be present alot during Kain's rule, as the game series was still developing (the original Soul Reaver was supposed to actually have been the final game, but time constraints forced them to leave it with a cliffhanger, and thus continuing the awesome)

The thing I like about this series is the fact that vampires actually grow beyond their original humanity

I mean, take Raziel here for instance.

Looks like your typical goth (but manages to pull of a badass look), but we all know he would be changing in structure (his hands already reflect that of the ancients)

Speaking of claws, I noticed a trend in the series.

Blood Omen 1 had Kain with normal human hands.

The second Blood Omen had him with human hands, but claws on the finger tips

The Soul Reaver series and Defiance, well he had the three clawed hand, and the two-toed claw feet.

The entire hand is one giant, flexible, claw bone, as we see when Raziel is flayed of his skin everywhere.

Obviously, this level for vampires in the RPG would tear shit up like no tomorrow, considering the mechanics of such a perfect natural weapon evolution.

>>3636038

still working on that, we're in discussion mode and haven't set an functional game mechanic yet

>>3636079

Yeah I know what you mean about the claw thing

I always liked how that worked, having an entire bone claw flex, yet still be hard when striking.

Regarding the various eras of Nosgoth, there's so many different ones to choose from.

pre-Blood Omen Sarafan, Blood Omen II when Kain is recovering in sleep, Kain's empire as it is first starting out, etc etc

Let's leave time travel out of this, as only people such as Kain, Moebius, and Raziel would have the destinies to change fate and stuff.

thread is archived also at suptg

Night /tg/, looking forward to more discussion at a later time, considering Legacy of Kain is the only thing that has kept vampires pure and awesome

>>3636112
That's a weird looking dark templar.

>>3636194
0/10 but made me larf

BUMP FOR KAIN AND RPG

>Legacy of Kain Roleplaying Game (insert catchy subtitle)

Legacy Of Kain: The Magnificent Bastarding.

Holy fuck, this is still around? I though for sure it'd be gone by now.

>>3636330
That battle cry from BO... jeesh, just imagining it still gives me the willies.

>>Let's leave time travel out of this, as only people such as Kain, Moebius, and Raziel would have the destinies to change fate and stuff.

On the forum it was suggested that only humans would be able to travel back in time. I think the idea has promise, butthe humans would be at a major disadvantage. For example, the vampires of Kain's time would be far far stronger than those they were used to, and so, they'd be totally unprepared.

Idea for game name:

VAE VICTUS

>>3638852
DONE

>>3638852

THIS


Also, remember that although humans may not seem much against vampires... think SARAFAN, my friends. You could easily dispatch whole armies of Moebius' cutthroats, yet when it came to a single Sarafan, gosh, I never saw Raziel get his ass kicked so hard, that is, in Soul Reaver 2. Those bastards were seriously hardcore. Remember the Sarafan Raziel&Gang, taking on an Ancient Vampire, Janos Audron, and only resorting to Moebius' staff in the last moment.

>>3638981
http://razielim.phpbbhosts.co.uk/index.php

IT'S DONE!!
Also, yeah, though, I think just for a bit of variety when playing as humans there would have to be different classes of Sarafan, or make it a class of its own.

>>3638834
>the vampires of Kain's time would be far far stronger than those they were used to, and so, they'd be totally unprepared.

So you start out with humans, who have a variety of innovative technologies such as clockwork crossbows and so forth for hunting vampires. Then they go to the future in the third or fourth session. Which changes the game from 'FUCK YEAH, HUMANS!" to "FUCKFUCKFUCK the spears don't work DON'T LET THEM EAT ME!!"

>>3639014
FUCK YEAR STEAMPUNK VAMPIRE HUNTERS

>>3639014
>>Which changes the game from 'FUCK YEAH, HUMANS!" to "FUCKFUCKFUCK the spears don't work DON'T LET THEM EAT ME!!"

I really like this idea, this would actually attract me to playing as a human more than a vampire.

Vampires of Kain's level of power are a rarity, so humans probably have a lot better chance against your average vampire which would be significantly weaker than Kain no matter the time period.

>>3639117
That's the thing though, I would assume vampire's of Kain's lineage, even 3rd or 4th generation, would still be more powerful than average vampires.

>>3639117
>>3639134


yeah, because of Kain's Heart of Darkness, he carries the blood of the Ancients directly, in essence he becomes more powerful than even Vorador as the generation bloodline literally is reset back to first

As >>3635156 mentions,

Humans do display a bit of technology in the games, not to mention the Hylden artifacts that could be lying around. Granted, depending on the time period humans might not. When Kain initially became a vampire, for instance, humans didn't appear to have anything more advanced than a crossbow. Granted, the scale of the game means that humanity has likely risen and fallen several times throughout the history of Nosgoth. At the time of SR1, they're limited to isolated towns stuck in niches that are protected by the various vampire weaknesses in the enviroment. The one in the game has a single entrance, a huge gap, and then of course the vast expanse of water which kills 80% of the vampires.

A town that's got access to a lava vent would be cool, using a dorflike magma-moat to limit vampire incursion to a single long path (with an always-loaded ballista at the other end).
A subterranean human settlement that uses echo caves and a variety of gongs to induce the sound frequencies that kill/stun vampires would also be neat. Vampires that are not killed by the sound would be dispatched by human hunters wearing earplugs.

Steam-powered vehicles (like early horseless carriages) wouldn't be far-fetched, as food scarcity from limited farmland would make feeding livestock an issue.

>>3639176
If that's the case, then a party made of "old generation" vampires fighting against Kainite vampires and against their own extinction.

Maybe we should determine here and now what the playable races and their corresponding 'classes' (Though I feel this should be a classless system for the most part, I just can't think of another word to use right now) ought to be before going in. Here are my suggestions:

Humans:

Vampire Hunter (Normal humans with tons of specialized equipment and skills for taking out vamps. Think Batman except with vampires instead of criminals)

Serafan (Like someone else mentioned, Sisters of Battle/Cleric types powered by faith and corresponding acts of such. Would be difficult to use in later epochs but could still be around just diminished)

Theoretically there should be two or three unique progression paths in these areas to give humans some more variety.

Kainite Vampires:

Well, we've already specified the castes so no explanation here is required really.

I think that should be it for now, really. Pre-Kain vampires should be statted like monsters and used generally for that purpose (The exception being Vorador who is a special character and would a unique stat set of some sort).

I'm also going to go GRIMDARK here and suggest that there should not be any mixed race parties (Or at least, we should not bother constructing the game to consider the idea) on account of the difference between humans and vampires being too stark to even really consider an alliance as there was no incidence of anything like it in the game.

Speaking of the Grimdark, the more I think about it the more I feel a system resembling Dark Heresy/WHFP RPG is going to be the way to go with this. Suitably brutal combat and 'paths' rather than levels for character progression using a d100 base.

>>3639213
While I like the idea of scattered human settlements, I think the area in SR1 was kind of one off. I don't imagine many human settlements during Kain's reign to be bigger than a few hundred people and very very few settlements.

The only people who would travel outside would be vampire hunters, and the rest of the population would turtle behind whatever defenses they could.

It's worth noting that vampire-worshipping humans -do- exist to varying degrees in all of Nosgoth's time periods. So you could always do a human campaign centered around heretic hunting and cult smashing as much as taking out actual vampires.

So here's my thought on some weapons used by humans for anti-vampire purposes:

The Clockbow: A crossbow of railgun possibilities. Crossbows in our world never needed to pierce vampire chests, and as vampires became tougher the stakes we fired needed to be stronger. This weapon uses a much more tensile material in the bow and string, which would require superhuman strength to draw back. The clockwork mechanism does this for you after every shot, provided you keep it wound, leaving you to simply slot the next bolt.

The Incandescent Spear: A polearm built along the same lines as the Fallout 3 Shishkebab: The wielder wears a fuelpack which is connected to the spear via tubing. The rear grip of the spear has a priming pump mechanism and a trigger that strikes a piece of flint across the steel at the base of the spearhead, which ignites the blade/spike with fire. By squeezing the priming mechanism and pulling the trigger, you get a flaming spear. Not long ago, it was discovered that if you pumped the primer a few times before you pulled the trigger, a six-foot gout of flaming fuel would be ejected from the spearhead.

>>3639289
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JjprYD2Yhw

Related.

>>3639314
That's pretty awesome. Though, I think it would have to be made of chain-links or something.

>>3639289

Got one i'd like to add to this, inspired by a weapon I saw in an animu once:

Deathspinner Spear: This spear is fitted with a short but razor-sharp two-pronged head attached to a simple, powerful motor built into a portion of the shaft. By pulling a ripcord to motor will activate and cause the spearhead to spin rapidly at astonishing speed, enabling it to cause heavy damage to armor and horrifying wounds to living opponents. It is particularly useful against vampires, as the constant damage caused by the spinning head is an effective counter against the regenerative properties of vampire flesh.

>entire thread

This thread is awesome, and you should feel awesome for being a part of it

My contribution, armor:

Black Iron - Similar to Kain's own old Iron Armor before his durability became strong enough to shrug off wounds what would normally take him down, Black Iron armor is similar to the common iron armor found but scorched with a magical fire that provides a greater protection against flames. It can function like a modern day firefighter suit, as the iron will not overheat and cook the occupant inside. A better quality version of this exists, known as Black Steel

The advantage of the Clockbow is that one could fire a variety of ammunition with it. Flaming stakes, holy water vial-tipped rounds, sound-rounds, whatever. Or you could fire standard crossbow bolts at a greater distance.

And then of course are the Hylden artifacts, which could use alien technology for magic-like effects.

>>3639276

Speaking of; the Elder God probably has a few cultists here and there. I also don't think it's far-fetched for there to be some amount of magic in the hands of Humans. No player character would ever amount to Moebius or whoever, but still.

Also: Are vampires going to have that freaky 'drink blood from a distance' power? That's probably what threw me the most during the opening scene of Legacy Of Kain.

Holy Water: A simple yet effective testament to human ingenuity, this 'Holy' solution is merely water given a more viscous property via an alchemical additive. Usually carried in a small vial of some sort, it only takes a few seconds to coat any blade in the material, giving one's weapon an acidic bite no vampire will soon forget, should they live.

>>3639345
>Are vampires going to have that freaky 'drink blood from a distance' power? That's probably what threw me the most during the opening scene of Legacy Of Kain.

Fuck yeah they will, of course that's an ability to learn for new fledgings (Kain's exception is probably the Heart of Darkness plot device that allowed him to develop so quickly)

So they'd normally have to bite on a main artery to get blood. Next level they can open a wound on the body and then start drawing blood from afar.

Third level in the skill: Counts as an attack, as the vampire can force the blood from an unwounded enemy to burst out of the skin brutally and drink from then. (saw this happen in the Legacy of Kain: Defiance comic, as Kain lifted a Sarafan up in the air with his telekinesis and burst open the throat and drank the poor sap's blood)

Let it be known, that drinking in combat leaves the vampire vulnerable to attack during turns.

>>3639362

I think an opponent should have to be somewhat weakened before any vampire can attempt anything like that, or it's basically giving them all an insta-kill move.

I'm pretty sure it was just Kain using his telekinetic powers in an unusual, and fucking awesome way.

>>3639368

An attack that doesn't have that good a chance of succeeding

Takes a lot of willpower to attempt forcing blood out of the enemy, and can fail at times

Not really that recommended, but the success and seeing it happen is so worth it

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but does anyone remember the comic book they put out to promote this game? It mentioned one of the things that wound up being cut out of the final release (at least the playstation one to be sure), which was a human woman who was to be a vampire worshiping cultist during the SR1 period. In all possibility, the point of the human city in the game may have been to find, kill and absorb powers of said priestess. Just something to keep in mind as an additional human faction

>>3639458

I remember that, as well as the recent Defiance comic

Both good, very dark and bloody

rolled 66 = 66

>>3638852
>>3636330
>>3638772

What always bothered me about that is how they mispronounce it. Its actually supposed to be said as "wae wiktis."

Though I admit it sounds less badass that way.

>>3638852

This entire thread is awesome, but I have to say something.

"Vae VictUS" doesn't make sense at all. The correct form is "Vae VictIS".
I'm just saying that, if we have to do this, let's do it right, not screwing up right from the first thing to come up (the name)...

Learn2Latin, fa/tg/uys
Or, if the mistake derives from the english version of the game itself, Learn2Latin, Crystal Dynamics.


PS: /r/-ing the comic(s) with the mighty force of a thousand turelim psyblasts.

>>3639615

FUCK, 120 posts of "URHURHVAEVICTUSROCKS", and the smart guy who spells it right comes in just before my "AhAhAh, you are a bunch of ignorant fools"-kinda-post?

This isn't fair, I just wanted to be the first smart one!


Oh well....Vae Victis, I suppose.

rolled 30 = 30

>>3639647

Here, have some cleavage as a consolation prize.

>>3639647
WOE TO THE CONQUERED

My favorite Kain quote of all time, from Defiance:

Sarafan: Surrender vampire, and we will grant you a quick death

Kain: I would promise you the same... but it would be a lie

"Raziel: You're a righteous fiend, aren't you?
Raziel: Apparently, I am."

I think it's important we get some of that sense of righteous arrogance across. If you listen to the dialogue from the games, Kain and Raziel especially, they're pretty fucking proud of themselves and not shy about showing it, even when a more subtle approach would have allowed them to avoid combat.
Of course, this is all dependant on players, so I suppose the only thing you could really do is remind your players they're supposed to think of themselves as god's chosen/superhuman ubermensch and that humans are little more than a nuisance, etc etc etc.

>>3640599
This is actually very well shown in the above quote; Raziel is speaking to his old (human) self. I'm pretty sure pride is the most prevalent motivation for all of the pieces; Kain, Raziel, the knights, The Destroyer, Moebius, the members of the circle, the ancient vampires, even the Hylan and the Old God.. all act on pride.

"You don't know where the heart is, do you?"
"No."
"You never even LOOKED for it!"

http://razielim.phpbbhosts.co.uk/index.php

Changed the forums around a bit. Hopefully they'll be a bit easier to work with now.

bump for justice

I got this from the wikipedia about Kain and Raziel:

Kain first:
Cunning and relentless, Kain has a large (apparent) lust for power, and originally seeks to conquer all of Nosgoth for his own, a quest that he eventually prevails in, as evident in Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver. Though he possesses an obvious relish for bloodshed and brutality, Kain is anything but stupid. While his apparent lack of diplomacy seems to stem from his short and violent temper, in reality it is a carefully cultivated tool. The true cunning and subtlety of his actions are only revealed to those smart enough to see past his endless deceptions. With his vampirism, coupled with his intellect, cultured palate and his extremely aristocratic tastes, he could best be described as a combination of Hannibal Lecter and Vlad the Impaler, with a compassionate side that becomes evident on many occasions (mostly throughout Soul Reaver 2 and Legacy of Kain: Defiance, and also briefly in Blood Omen 2). (to be cont'd on next post)

>>3641382

In spite of this, Kain's justification is often thrust upon him in that he finds himself, sometimes by his own designs, in such a position that he becomes the lesser of two evils, and one often feels a sense of justice to see "the true enemy" get what they so richly deserve by falling to the mercy of his better graces. In fact, he invites comparison with sound-alike character Caine from another and unrelated series Vampire: The Masquerade, though the comparisons are only passing as Caine (WoD) is the progenitor of all vampires while Kain (LoK) is the latter architect of the vampire scourge dominating and destroying the world. However, his lust for power and destruction during his youth was not a result of his own personality: in fact, it was the result of a mind-afflicting disturbance emanating from another (as part of a greater visionary scheme) at his birth. Furthermore, in a world where so many factions and species are constantly at war (mostly against Vampires), Kain has no other chance of mere survival apart from attempting to become Emperor of Nosgoth. Throughout the ages, Kain grows from wisely arrogant to arrogantly wise. Also through all the games Kain never lies, he tells many half and partial truth but never lies directly.

>>3641398


Now for Raziel:

Raziel is a very upstanding and moral character (and, thus, he rarely questions his own actions and their consequences, since he believes they are always good and moral), with a strong inherent sense of noblesse oblige; however, the conditions and situations he finds himself in (almost never of his own making, unlike Kain) rarely lend themselves to unambiguous ethical judgments and he often ends up doing the wrong thing for the right reason (unlike Kain who generally does the right thing – mostly for his own, often evil, reasons). As a mortal man, he engaged in the systematic extermination of countless Vampires in his fanatical quest to rid the world of his perception of evil.

As a Vampire he helped Kain establish his empire, under the controversial belief that Vampires deserved (as a higher form of life, and thus "knowing better") to rule the world. He became The Soul Reaver, the state he found himself in after being "betrayed" by Kain and his brethren, then "saved" by the Elder God, by being thrown into the Abyss, a swirling vortex of water (Its depth is such that it could almost be described as endless although its exact depth is not known for sure) he stalked Kain and massacred his former brethren, prevaricating that he was not only exacting vengeance, but just settling the balance of existence.

>>3641405

Ultimately, most of his actions turn out to be in some way flawed and generally immoral in the logic or lack thereof in their formulation, as he often finds himself the willing or unwilling pawn of those around him, for good or (mostly) evil. His systemic redemption is found only in his final act, one of self-sacrifice, his only action dually motivated by good intentions and with arguably good consequences. This puts him in harmonic opposition to the character of Kain (though he sacrifices himself not only to escape his curse of infinite death/rebirth cycle or to help defeat "the true enemy", but also for Kain - to whom he pledges allegiance), whose behavior is characterised by viciousness, manipulation and the belief that every person and thing is utterly expendable, but whose actions generally turn out to be right, because he defies those around him, most of whom turn out to be directly or indirectly in league with evil.

Kain proudly admits his actions are motivated by lust for power and revenge (but he truly was predestined to become a tyrant, only in a quest for survival and because of Nupraptor's curse, at his birth), while Raziel unrelently claims his sole motivation is a desire to save the world and that he is solely guided by morals. Kain devises witty schemes out of cruel calculations, while Raziel is more impulsive and only thinks about his own actions after he has committed the irreparable. Raziel unrelently switches from one master (often a manipulator) to another (Moebius and the Sarafan, Kain, the Elder God, Ariel, Janos Audron, Kain - again, Raziel is either being lied to or being told half-truths or being told what they think the truth is), while Kain only follows orders when they suit him and never trusts anyone (not even his only love Umah, the female Vampire who cared for him during his comatose sleep in Blood Omen 2).

I approve.

Bump for awesome and to get forum contributers.

Vampires are for sissy faggots.

Naw, I'm kidding. Nice work, everyone.

>>3641706

Legacy of Kain is the last surviving awesome, non-faggotry, vampire series

It must be preserved with the utmost awesome

>>3641802
Whats fun is that it's written by a woman.

Why couldn't Twilight be this awesome, instead of the festering pile of fan-dickery it is?

>>3641816

Not funny. Would be funny if it was a little teenage girl with nary a thought in her cerebral basket

>>3641816

Amy Hennig, the person that made Legacy of Kain it is today.

She is awesome, and you should feel awesome for seeing the face of her.

She looks okay, she's probably quite old. But it's that mind of hers, for giving us this series

ALL HAIL AMY!

>>3641826
I meant funny peculiar.

Castlevania Dracula, Count Orlok, and Legacy of Kain vampires are the only ones which are not full of faggotry.

Therefore, I wholeheartedly support this thread.

Nosgoth is way too awesome to run a campaign in. Imo it'd just butcher the setting wich I have grown overly fond of thanks to the LoK series.
tl;dr: never.

>>3642056

I respect your decision good sir

Rest assured, we fa/tg/uys are doing our best to NOT butcher the series we so cherish

>>3642056
We are trying, really we are. Please don't hit me.

I WANT TO USE THE VORADOR SPAT, HIS CLAN IS AWESOME

>>3642151

I never fully understood how...


Vorador defeated Malek.

What did he do, destroy the armor like a Thousand Son Marine?

>>3642200
The guy masterly used telekinesis, held Soul Reaver before Kaine and could shape shift into a crazy bat monster. Malak was fucked.

>>3642200
He just bested him in combat, he didn't actually kill him, just beat the shit out of him.

>>3642257
>>3642264

Yeah... I guess he was already considered "dead" considering his soul was just bound to the armor and couldn't return to the Pillars and stuff

For anyone regarding Dumah's powers, here:

>"Unlike every other ability gained in Soul Reaver, Raziel lacks Dumah's Constrict ability in later games in the series. This is due to the fact that this skill was put into the game primarily as it was hard to make a suitable animation for Raziel moving certain switches. In Soul Reaver 2, on the Playstation 2, this limitation did not exist so the ability was no longer required. It could be said that Raziel still has the ability and simply never found a need to use it after he began time traveling"

Constrict was put in because of the lack of animation for Raziel to move those switches. For an updated Legacy of Kain lore, remove constrict and just give Raziel massive endurance and strength to move those certain "impossible" switches by turning them.

>>3642335
You know, I don't remember that at all.

Also, I love how people are bumping this without saying "bump" and trying to pretend to be on topic.

Yeah about Malek... Some of the Sarafan were really fuckawesome and win... Even when he was alive - Malek stroke fear in to the heart of Raziel - as seen in defiance when Standing against Malek and Mobius. Mobius's staff doesnt work on Raziel and he still does not atack... he was afraid.

>>3642399
I don't remember Malek being in Defiance, just Mobius

>>3642465

he wasn't, he meant Soul Reaver 2

Sarafan, the best the humans ever had, even more than the Blood Omen 2 Sarafan


Yeah that's right, monk order over a resurrected name

Take that Hylden

>>3639616

Vae Victis is the plural form, Vae Victus is the singular.

lern2latin, troll