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    File :1233033890.png-(9 KB, 577x383, Screenshot-DorfCrawlPicnic-1-26-09.png)
    9 KB Brainstorm Thread DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)00:24 No.3530836  
    Sup nigh/tg/uys.

    For those of you who weren't here the other night, I've decided to start work on a /tg/-idea'd roguelike.

    It'll be like Crawl and Dwarf Fortress had a baby: a single dungeon, but one in which hackan'slashan is not your only option. One where you can settle down for a while, attract groupies, lure them into traps of your own devising, and take their stuff. Or have them build stuff for you, y'know, if you're into that.

    I'm working on dungeon generation at the moment, in case the hilariously badly laid-out screenshot isn't evidence enough. While I work, I'd like to have a brainstorm thread. Buildings, architecture, enemies, allies, fluff, pretty much everything would be good to hear.

    A fluff post to follow.
    >> DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)00:32 No.3530898
    The dungeon's basic theme is it's a fiftyish years old excavation of various ancient ruins. Once exposed, it began to pull people in, in a "this dungeon, it was made for me!" sense. Thousands enter and swarm the place, fucking no one leaves.

    Over time, people with harder wills decide to poke around to see what's up. They encounter ravaged survivors who cluster around the exit, too afraid to go deeper but too enthralled to leave. They find monsters, freakish recreations of children's stories, logic-defying artifacts, and portals to other, even stranger chasms. They find that *they* can't leave either, at least for very long. Whatever's got them there has got them good.

    They're part of the dungeon now.
    >> Designfag 01/27/09(Tue)01:08 No.3531154
    'Oi, lad! I return from the previous thread, if you're still in need of the brain of a guy who thinks too much.
    >> DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)01:13 No.3531207
    So you, as the player, have a couple of options.

    You could approach the game like a regular roguelike: kill stuff, take their stuff, go lower to find more stuff. The difficulty as a function of depth will be rather steep, but with luck you could take this route.

    You could be a looter, out to make a name for yourself by enriching yourself on the dungeon, like a Stalker in the Zone. Like the Zone there'll be artifacts which to you are mere curiosity but sell for fuckhueg jewmonies in the outside world, but like the Zone the dungeon is also addictive; you can leave, sure, but sooner or later you'll be back. Your trips to the outside world will become shorter and shorter, until you cannot leave at all and will have to depend on others who enter to trade with you.

    You could make a stand, and establish a significant and semi-permanent presence in the dungeon. This would be not unlike DF, although not as obsessive-compulsive about soapmaking. Craftsmen enter the dungeon but tend not to last long, what with the hungry freaks and monsters everywhere. You'll be able to set up traps, establish fortifications, maybe do some crude fungus farming. Crude weapons are possible, but for really shiny shit you'll need to trade with the outside world. The shallower you build the better your immigrants will be and the safer your fortress; but set up deeper and you'll make more loot, which is one of the factors determining who joins you and who attacks you.
    >> Designfag 01/27/09(Tue)01:17 No.3531232
    Oh, right. I should be contributing.

    I, uh, had some ideas.



    During your adventure you can run into and rescue Maidens. They operate as an "advanced" henchperson/thrall and help you heal after battles. There's a slight chance, however, that they will end up being monsters, such as medusae, ghosts, sirens or shapeshifters.


    If you wrong someone while inside the dungeon - nebulous defenition, that - they might flee and swear revenge on you. You now have an intelligent enemy to worry about.
    >> witchy !nnnldDD3Us 01/27/09(Tue)01:18 No.3531249
    Glad to see there's a worthy codebitch around.

    I still can't get the fucking @ sign to move.
    >> DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)01:48 No.3531533
         File :1233038937.png-(12 KB, 577x383, Behold! Caves!.png)
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    Although this does have some potential for interesting writefag fap material, it isn't very dorfy, nor does Xom approve.

    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)02:17 No.3531775
    I'd love to see something like this with multiplayer capacity.
    >> DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)02:34 No.3531889
         File :1233041670.png-(12 KB, 577x383, Good enough.png)
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    I've been thinking about that. It'd either be the hottest shit since fucking ever, or a terrible, terrible waste of code. Probably both at the same time, depending on the cooperative activity/IMMA KILL UR DOODZ ratio of the players involved.

    But I'm satisfied enough with cave systems for now. I'd like to turn to character generation. Have any of you ever wanted to change things about the way roguelikes do characters?

    Here's my current plan:
    Three visible attributes - Strength, speed, smarts
    Three hidden attributes - Badass, wealth, charisma
    Several skills, trainable separately like Crawl and DF - hittan, castan, trappan and so forth.

    The skills determine how good you are at something, and the mostly-unalterable visible stats affect them. Train in something and you'll get better at it, without needing to kill stuff to build up exp like crawl.

    The hidden stats affect who turns to your side and how quickly. Some monsters (goblins) respect people who can kick their ass, so they'll tend to bargain with badasses rather than attack them. Others want a chance at becoming rich, or follow people with a cult of personality. These stats change faster than visible stats but slower than skills, according to your kills/profit/? in the dungeon.

    How's that sound? Want anything different?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)02:55 No.3531989
    Sounding pretty Overlord there.

    I can't see how that's a bad thing.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:00 No.3532002
    I'd rather see strength/speed, smarts, finesse. To me, it's logical that strength and speed would be the same thing.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:02 No.3532008
    Multiplayer would be cool, but how would one work the timing? Most RLs are turn-based, but you don't want to be waiting around for every human player on the level, or worse, every human player in the dungeon, to move.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:02 No.3532011
    Sounds good. What are the important technical details?

    Multiplayer could work very well with the following premise: Turns take a static amount of time, inevitably rolling forward. Turns can be skipped if all MOBs in the level have done their move.

    There is at least one safe camp in the top level. More camps can be founded on levels below and further outside, but those need to be defended by NPCs and PCs alike.

    The world is persistent, but when no PC (alive or dead) is exploring a dungeon branch the branch is forgotten. Gone forever, regenerated from scratch when explored again. Branches start from formal forks so no nontrivial regeneration of dead ends.

    Monsters and loot only generated along new tiles. This allows creating camps in established safe areas, perpetually pushing the boundaries of the civilized world. However, world events could cause the existing explored world to regenerate and threaten these safe areas.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:04 No.3532018
    >To me, it's logical that strength and speed would be the same thing.

    Not really. Look at sprinters, they've got strong leg muscles but they also tend to be lithe bastards.

    Then go look at like, weight lifters or similar. They have a different sort of muscle distribution.
    >> DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)03:05 No.3532023
    Never played it, so I'm sure it'll turn out differently. That's the one with all the goblins, right? I always got the feeling that those devs sat down to make a Dungeon Keeper game, and a horde of multicolored goblins was all the marketing people let them keep.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:09 No.3532035
    This sounds more like dungeon keeper than anything.

    fuck I loved that game.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:10 No.3532039
    Oh, looking at the details you're using goddamn GNOME. Better be using Python.
    >> DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)03:15 No.3532052
    Well, one thing that fa/tg/ets tend to bitch about is how nearly all combat attributes boil down to the same thing. You need a strong arm, a steady hand and quick reflexes to fight with a longsword, or a rapier, or a polearm, or a longbow. The difference is all in the weapon skill. So, it makes sense to compress them all into a single stat: Strength, for its intuitive meaning. Speed is mostly so's I have an easy thing to temporarily alter with rings of haste, 'slow' regions, etc and have the player tell.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:18 No.3532069
         File :1233044311.jpg-(28 KB, 300x269, lewis.jpg)
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    Sprinters and power lifters actually have pretty similar builds when you get rid of the extra fat lifters don't mind having.
    >> DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)03:18 No.3532072
    Yeah, it's python with curses. I'm encapsulating all of the I/O into a display object so someone else can easily fag up the game with tiles if they're too /v/ to play like real men.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:43 No.3532149
    ooh, How about....
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:47 No.3532162
    How do you make an exciting game out of methodically excavating dirt until you find a little broken piece of a pot?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:50 No.3532170

    Having speed be a function of strength versus weight seems more sensible.

    Stamina could also play a role. Say you top out at ten miles an hour loaded or not, but if you're carrying heavy stuff you can't run as -far- without resting.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:50 No.3532173
    Easily, if the dirt occasionally forms into an elemental to kill you, and if by 'broken piece of a pot' you mean an ancient, forbidden, incredibly malevolent evil.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:52 No.3532176

    When the pot is noneuclidean and takes you into a dimension of awesome.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:53 No.3532181
    Now you're thinking with history!
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:56 No.3532192
    To OP:

    As someone that's working on a roguelike of their own, godspeed.

    Also, shameless plug for incredibly unfinished shit:

    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:57 No.3532194
    >>3532173 and if by 'broken piece of a pot' you mean an ancient, forbidden, incredibly malevolent evil.
    Why would I ever dig that up‽
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)03:59 No.3532205
    You were looking for an interesting broken pot from the boring eras. Instead you accidently freed the malevolent force of evil dickery.

    Good job.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:01 No.3532211
    And I chose archaeology as a field because it was the safe one. :|
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)04:01 No.3532213
    Add whips, fedoras, nazis and a deep-seated hatred of snakes.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:02 No.3532220
    I'd like to see some necromancy. Delicious, delicious necromancy.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:04 No.3532230
    google spelunky, play it a little bit and incorporate (steal) fitting ideas from it.
    as it is already a combo of spelunker and a roguelike
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:09 No.3532259

    I don't see why this game couldn't have a real-time option for multiplayer.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)04:10 No.3532262
    Ok, here's a thought. As you go deeper, don't simply say "These differently-colored goblinz have a higher Raep stat and are worth more horse points. Their Warpenises are bigger and more enchanted too. Moving on."

    Make shit get weirder. Much weirder, like zones of increased/decreased gravity, seriously fucked-up monsters, a zone of darkness that reduces your field of vision so that you don't notice the environment changing around you right away.

    Same goes for the items and artifact. You might have your +1 swords, but on top of that maybe a ring that encases you in a cube of glass when you put it on, or a shrivelled head that has a chance to teleport you to the abyss whenever you use a teleport spell and can be used on the remains of an animated skeleton by replacing it's skull to create a cohort.

    Oh, and Z-levels like Dorf fortress. Every dungeon level can have a randomly generated number of them? Maybe for pit traps and such.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:12 No.3532273

    He could have each level consist of several layers, and then have a 'real' stairwell that moves between them, maybe. It'd be kind of hard to keep track of, but that would make this the only 6-D roguelike besides DF that I've ever seen. Could be VERY interesting.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:14 No.3532282
    Oh for the speed thing, and strength thing.
    how fast i can move my sword arm ain't too useful if i didn't notice the the sword buried in my torso
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:20 No.3532305
    Yeees... but it's hairy. Right away you've got some weirdness like capping the player's on-screen movement speed and giving the player no time to stop and think. This is the norm for action games, but weird for roguelikes. And it would be a big job to balance both modes so that they played roughly the same. Certainly it's doable.
    >> DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)04:25 No.3532326
    VERY good post. I've already got some of the level weirdness planned, but item weirdness is a lot harder to code, as is funky nethack-style item interaction.

    I was thinking about making the dungeon out of a large series of interconnected regions. Each region would be small to medium in size (80x40x10 or so), with several portals to other regions, and would have its own "theme" created from random RNG values in generation. Since only the region you're in needs to be rigorously simulated, we can have an expansive dungeon that doesn't lag to fuck like DF does.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)04:29 No.3532346
    Also, the shallower levels could be more stable than the lower ones in terms of how often they change.

    I'd LOVE to see some dimensional bullshit too, like entering a door or warp zone that teleports you to the top of a tower or mountain, with nothing but brooding cloudy sky around you, kind of like Oneiros from Undying. It'd be a nice change from all the caves.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:31 No.3532351

    Hell, if you took the size of each level down to even an eighth of what DF typically simulates in dwarf mode, it would run so much better.

    DF is just a handful of cellular automata working on layers of info, in a nutshell. Even if you have a light-map and all that other stuff for each layer of each level, and even a spherical FOV for each entity, it shouldn't run nearly as slow as DF does.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:31 No.3532352
    >maybe a ring that encases you in a cube of glass when you put it on

    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)04:35 No.3532369
    Geeze, fine, HOLLOW cube of glass.

    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:37 No.3532375
    +3 mime points
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)04:39 No.3532387
    Can take 10 on miming even in a stressful situation.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:41 No.3532395
    Wait, the whole roguelike is about dorfs? You fucking retard.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:42 No.3532399
    What? No?

    The Dorf part is in reference to fortress building capabilities ala DF.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:43 No.3532402
    Miming as a school of magic would be incredibly awesome.

    It's like reverse illusionist magic. Instead of magic images that appear to be objects that aren't actually there, you generate objects that can't be seen. As usual, disbelieving either would cause them to fail, but that would require a saving throw proportionately high to the complexity of the 'illusion'. (For instance, you have a virtual sword shoved in your leg. Good luck breaking that spell.)
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:45 No.3532417
    Could i possibly open the most bitching inner dungeon RESTAURANT!!! Made from the meatiest of meaty monsters. Bitching kobold soup.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:46 No.3532419
    Oh okay.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:46 No.3532423
    Reminds me of Xiaolin Showdown.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:47 No.3532427
    Mimeamancy is an especially dangerous school of magic. While its effects are similar to that of the Illusion school the Mime is far more insidious. The effects of the Mime are never seen until they take effect and, of course, nobody ever hears the Mime coming.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:47 No.3532430
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    A genuinely /tg/ roguelike requires monstergirls.

    And possibly musclegirls.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)04:48 No.3532435
    >You are retarded because I fail to understand a simple concept relayed clearly in the OP.

    ...fund it. Fund it for double damage.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:52 No.3532449
         File :1233049934.png-(1.57 MB, 1192x1569, Sergal 3.5e 3 (Final) Revision(...).png)
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    Hey there, I heard you needed some allies/enemies for your roguelike, as well as some fluff.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:58 No.3532475
         File :1233050306.jpg-(2.72 MB, 4561x3609, monstergirls.jpg)
    2.72 MB

    Eh, what the hell.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:58 No.3532477
    The slow descent into weirdness kind of reminds me of Eversion. Have you played it OP? It's a super-cute Mario clone. Kind of.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)04:59 No.3532480
    I can't tell if this is a troll post or not.

    This saddens me because the sergal project was indeed an awesome late night /tg/ thing.

    Maybe it will be again, in time. I think the shoopfag and the rest have been scared away by max and the trolls for now.

    But, despite our best efforts, /tg/ changed, and idiots trolled. I just hope it can change back sometime.

    OP, if you do need a fantasy race, read that D&D page and seriously consider them. Preferably as both allies and enemies, but either works. If you want to know more about their fluff, I'm sure someone here has links to the archived threads or can give a summary.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:00 No.3532491
    Sergal project is still being worked on. Fluff-fag here, still writing up history of the Empire and other things. Expect some REPOSTAN in a few days.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:01 No.3532495
    Furfags, sir.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:03 No.3532515
    > this dungeon, it was made for me!
    Oh god, finally a motivation for why so many wierd fucks are found in roguelike dungeons! OP, if I ever write a roguelike myself, I'm totally stealing this.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:05 No.3532526
    Mime - Miming - Creates material illusions that can't be seen. Easier to disbelieve as they can't be seen or heard, but actually capable of interacting with targets. (Of course, the pain of a bruised nose from walking into an invisible wall is pretty convincing...)

    Magician - Illusionist - Creates visual illusions that, while very convincing and confusing, can only interact with others in cursory ways. (But who's complaining when you can conveniently appear to be a shrub or a wastebasket and fool your foes?)

    Mathematimancer - Numerology - Every spell at your disposal is a math equation. Finding like objects, or monsters with a certain figure in their stat blocks allows you to use the numeric relationships between all things in the universe to unlock the forces of organized chaos. (Those three trees seem insignificant until dividing by zero really does open a black hole.)
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:06 No.3532530
    Do you guys know if the minis fag is still working on the minis?

    Saging because I'm not adding content and don't want to derail the thread. After this, back to suggestions for the game.
    >> I use this way too much Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:11 No.3532570
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:12 No.3532576
    Returning to stats for a moment. I think more is better. Or at least more interesting. Having a single "strength" stat governing all the physical things you do is boring, as it means everyone's equally good at all aspects of physical strength. I'd split it up into several stats.

    Here's what I think core stats could be like, and what they affect:
    Strength - Melee damage and carrying capacity
    Dexterity - Accuracy. Both with ranged and melee weapons. Parrying. Any combat maneuvers that do not require you to use your entire body (those go under agility)
    Agility - Dodging, movement speed.
    Constitution - Huge guts etc. Hit points, poison and stun resistance. This and willpower should determine endurance - ie. how long someone can keep crafting/building/mining/etc before needing to rest
    Intelligence - Learning stat. In addition to the usual spellcasting usage, important with craft skills and planning - things built by low Int characters are more likely to break down. Don't let the trolls build bridges, they suck at it.
    Mana - How attuned you are to the flow of the world. Helps with spellcasting, determines how fast you recover from casting stuff. High mana characters could be "beacons", attracting weird things.
    Willpower - Resistance to mental effects (charms and stuff). Helps with HP. Also a minor spellcasting stat
    Charisma - duh. Helps with negotiating, persuading, intimidating etc. Determines maximum number of followers / hirelings.

    If you don't plan on adding spellcasting in any form, you can cut the mana stat off that list. Maybe replace it with a trouble magnet feat or something, if you want to keep the attracts weird stuff thing.
    For casting, have spells that rely on multiple stats. Something like, say, Power Word Weakness that affects all enemies in [Mana] radius, reducing their strength by [Intelligence] for [Willpower] rounds.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:18 No.3532619

    Expanding the numerology idea:

    You get an assload of spell slots, but they shuffle each turn with different numbers and digits prefixed with math symbols. You get the ability to read a monster's size and weight, and to also select objects from your surroundings. If by using either of these methods you produce a sum that qualifies either as an actual number or a multiple of something, you can use that spell. Obtuse? Very. Random? Extremely. Nerdy?

    That's the fucking point.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:20 No.3532630
    I thought part of the point was to remove the autism needed to play regular DF though.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)05:21 No.3532645
    By saging you not only didn't add content, but you counted against the thread's post count and didn't bump it. You did not help in any way at all.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:23 No.3532656
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    >really weird stuff
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:24 No.3532662
    Sorry, sheesh, thought it was common courtesy to sage when you weren't adding content.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:24 No.3532663
    Fuck it, lets go all Dwarf Fortress on this motherfucker:

    Every body part has a Durability, a Power, and a Finesse.

    For all body parts, Durability is essentially HP; it breaks when it goes to 0.

    Power and Finesse do different things depending on the body part associated with them.

    Arm Power lets you lift heavy things, throw powerful punches, and so on. Arm Finesse lets you actually hit with those punches, pick locks, pick up delicate items without accidentally card-crushing them, and such.

    Leg Power lets you run fast, kick people in the groin, and keep running for a long time. Leg Finesse lets you walk on tightropes, not slip on ice, and such.

    Face Power lets you scream really loudly, bite the heads off of bats and make babies cry; Face Finesse lets you smile, haggle, lie through your teeth and generally be a smarmy asshole.

    Brain Power lets you stay focused and solve differential equations; Brain Finesse lets you pick up new tricks, figure out riddles and See What They Did There(tm).
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:24 No.3532666

    I consider this an affectionate parody of it.

    Also, an odd way of doing a spell lottery.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:25 No.3532673
    He did get to ask about the furry rape monster though. Isn't that what really counts? REALLY?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:27 No.3532682
    So kind of like IVAN then?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:27 No.3532684

    This is getting into HOL territory.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:27 No.3532686
    Dude, don't even start that argument here.

    OP, all I care about is that you include identifying your possessions in true roguelike style.

    If you want to use something from DF, have your party members go through fey moods once in a while. For the lulz.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:28 No.3532697
    Never played it; I know it does separate body parts, didn't know if there were stats for them beyond HP. Interesting.
    I'm not sure what HOL is...
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:29 No.3532702
    Would you like your possessions identified?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:30 No.3532707
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    It's not related to the thread, a sage is common when you knowingly post something unrelated.

    Picture related.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:31 No.3532718
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    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:33 No.3532731
    Oh, fuck off. That's specious reasoning and we all know it.

    And no, a sage is not common for that here. Where it was common were foreign imageboards.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)05:37 No.3532757
    There aren't, not until the next edition though.

    Also, HoL is a game. The rulebook is written by hand, your money may gestate and try to eat you, you can die in character creation, and the narrator from who's point of view the rules are told sometimes throws a fit. Premade character include Elvis and a pedo priest.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:40 No.3532769
    I have an idea. Since you're using Python, why not use the built-in URL parsing stuff and use thread numbers from /tg/ as the random seeds? Just something to make it a bit more homegrown. If you really want, you could also parse said thread for a number of keywords or something, to add in additional content.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)05:42 No.3532782
    Maybe even use posted text to generate seeds for random stages, or make it into alien messages found scribbled in places.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:44 No.3532793

    Gnolls and dragonborn are far furrier than sergals. sergals are a monster created mostly on the 2ch image board and isn't based on any animal. some people say "derp derp sharks+wolves furries" but that doesn't begin to explain their hands and feet looking like they do, or their tails. if they were really just sharks and wolves, they'd have paw feet like any other furry character and shit.

    their heads really don't even resemble sharks, they're prety much just a completely alien race compared to anything irl. they're supposedly close to raptors, that's DINOSAURS, and they've got fur and mammaries after pregnancy. They're just plain strange and that's all there is to it.

    and no they aren't rape monsters, the most famous one just happens to be widely known for her aggressive bedside manner. most of 'em do like cannibalism and violence though. They're jsut disciplined about it.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:45 No.3532800
    Stop posting, drunk anon. Go back to bed.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)05:46 No.3532805
    Some sort of internet hate weasel/wolf
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:48 No.3532811
    You've clearly never heard of scalies then, have you?

    And any monster designed to have a large, prehensile clitoris that doubles as a pseudo-penis is very fucking furry indeed.

    What irritates me the most is that you can't even keep your furry shit in one place that I can happily ignore. Oh no, it's all, OH HEY LOOK AT THIS FURRY RAPE MONSTER YOU SHOULD WHY AREN'T YOU LOOKING AT HOW FANTASTIC IT IS LOOK AT THE FURRY RAPE MONSTER.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)05:50 No.3532821
    Furries fucking love dragons. Dragons are a fantasy monster. There is too, TOO much detailed dragon-penis on the internet.
    So no anon, you are the derp.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:52 No.3532831
    >>And any monster designed to have a large, prehensile clitoris that doubles as a pseudo-penis is very fucking furry indeed.

    >>What irritates me the most is that you can't even keep your furry shit in one place that I can happily ignore. Oh no, it's all, OH HEY LOOK AT THIS FURRY RAPE MONSTER YOU SHOULD WHY AREN'T YOU LOOKING AT HOW FANTASTIC IT IS LOOK AT THE FURRY RAPE MONSTER.

    Pretty much this. The reason why sergals are furry but shit like minotaurs and kobolds are not is the sexualisation and notation of sexual behaviour as a key part of the sergal design philosophy.
    >> God dammit people. Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:52 No.3532832
    I really didn't want to butt in here but...

    You know that's the trolls doing that, right? /tg/ actually does have a loyal following of people working on Sergal stuff for D&D. They never mention their sexual aspects, prohibit porn in their threads, and have no references whatsoever to furry or rape in their stuff.

    Now please, get over this, read the archives and let's get back to helping out the OP. In fact, just read through the D&D page up there.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:52 No.3532837
    And now, can we can get this sergal furfaggotry out of the thread and back to the original topic?
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)05:56 No.3532861
    A ring that creates a cube of sergal around you when you put it on...
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)05:57 No.3532865
    Don't tell me you people actually listened to the trolls from last week.

    Sergals aren't furry. The faggot spamming them just wanted to ruin them for /tg/ because people were getting shit done and OMFG people should never get shit done on /tg/.

    This thread is now derailed and deserves a sage until it gets back on track.

    Is the OP still here? I do think hireable mercs are a good idea, either as a one time payment or continuously paying them.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:01 No.3532880
    If you build something, or settle in, it might disappear with the level if you leave it alone unless you take precautions. The shallower the level is, the less chance of that happening/the less shit will move around.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:03 No.3532887
    >internet hate weasel/wolf
    You didn't listen to a thing that guy said, huh?
    Still, gnolls are always going to be furry. Lizardfolk, dragonborn, kobolds as well, and don't you fucking dare say that "They're not sexualized so it's not furry."

    /tg/ has made cutebold porn.

    Let me repeat.

    /tg/ has made CUTEBOLD PORN.

    That is UNDERAGE FURRY PORN. And /tg/ not only made that, but wrote creepy fanfics about it.

    For sergals, /tg/ has made the fluff, the D&D threads, and Joanquest, none of which have actually had porn in them. Joan is a bit of an exception, but the sergal guys on /tg/ are nowhere near furfag levels.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:05 No.3532893
    I'm OCD to the degree that this effect would shit me enough to cause me to quit or never build anything.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:06 No.3532896
    Nobody respond to this, we're past this now, put it behind you /tg/ and let's move back to the OP.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:07 No.3532900
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:09 No.3532903
    Guess how many sergal pics come up when you Google Image Search 'furry wolf'. Just guess.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:11 No.3532907
         File :1233054675.gif-(4 KB, 100x100, 100x100falloutav-ch.gif)
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    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:11 No.3532911
    Anyway, let's get this thread on topic.

    You might be able to use magic to keep it stable. Or just never leave the level. Maybe levels 2-5 would not degrade more than a few tiles at a time.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:12 No.3532913
    Safe search on I see. There's the reason.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:16 No.3532928
         File :1233054966.jpg-(222 KB, 1255x801, horo furry wolf.jpg)
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    No sergals, but guess what I DID find as one of the top search results for "Furry Wolf!"
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:18 No.3532940
         File :1233055104.png-(3 KB, 425x64, SpiceNotFurry.png)
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    Picture related.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:18 No.3532943
         File :1233055126.jpg-(217 KB, 1254x802, horo furry wolf safesearch off(...).jpg)
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    Actually, the reason appears to be that you are a retard.

    Sergal Count: 0

    Horo Count: 3
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:20 No.3532951
    Forgot the next line: Calling Horo (and by extension, other Kemonobronohnoesmomimi or whatever the hell the Jappo is for Human with Monster-features) a furry can be a bannable offence.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:21 No.3532954
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    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:21 No.3532958
    You wanna go through all the pages there, champ? Wolves are the most popular furry species, and chances are if someone draws a sergal, they'll know they're not wolves.

    Hell, there's only about three or four artists that draw them at all.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:22 No.3532963
    Sonic: 1
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:23 No.3532972
         File :1233055401.jpg-(198 KB, 1237x790, that's not there.jpg)
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    You appear to be posting a shoop, good sir.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:24 No.3532976
    I'm thinking once you've cleared a zone from monsters, you can "claim" it and start building shit. But if you leave it alone and go elsewhere, there's a good chance new baddies just happen to wander in and wreck your shit. To prevent this, hire guards. Who need to be paid and fed or they desert. Effectively prevents you from taking over the whole dungeon, while letting you set up a few safe spots.

    Don't leave shit lying around. Things you leave lying on the floor should be stolen by (abstracted) wandering monsters and/or your own hirelings. If you want to store stuff, put it in a specific container in a safe zone.

    Abstract things going on in other zones when the player isn't there. So you could, say, hire a few miners and guards, bring them to a zone with an iron vein, and leave them there while you go set up a forge elsewhere. When you come back to check up on the mining operation, you get a message saying the operation is n% complete, some of the walls have disappeared, and there's a neat pile of ore waiting for you.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:24 No.3532977
    I just wanted to point out that Sergals have prehensile clitoral hoods, not prehensile clitorises.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:27 No.3532989
    That's still pretty fucking furry, brah.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:28 No.3532994
         File :1233055709.jpg-(219 KB, 1247x827, furry wolf page three.jpg)
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    Here's page three.

    Xom must be posting an old image or a shoop, because I can't find sergals anywhere and I've already looked through page fifteen. The real question is, if it's the former, what the fuck was Xom doing looking for furry wolves?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:28 No.3532996
    Nowhere in my post did I claim otherwise.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:31 No.3533004
         File :1233055867.gif-(80 KB, 1043x565, Furry Wolf.gif)
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    Nope, it shows up on mine also.

    Also, Wolf Sperm heart? What the fuck is wrong with people.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:33 No.3533015
    Not a shoop, but I'm as trustworthy as anyone on the internet. Plus we all have different as to what we found, so I might as well accuse you of shooping it out of your results.

    Claiming levels would have to be limited. Also, if you claim a level that's Too Deep, a beast of chaos might be pissed off and attempt to kill everyone there?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:33 No.3533022
    Hey faggots; the creator of Sergals says it's furry, is a furry, and is a member of the furry community.


    owned imo
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:34 No.3533024
         File :1233056057.jpg-(106 KB, 554x439, I dunno.jpg)
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    That's really strange then.

    I wonder what the difference is.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:34 No.3533028
    I believe this is undeniable own. I commend /tg/ on attempting to salvage it, though.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:35 No.3533035
    Hi samefag.

    A) All the drawfags here have FA accounts, it's not an uncommon thing for monster artists.

    B) He never says they're furry.

    Try that on for size.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:36 No.3533037
    Possibly regional or word choice.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:36 No.3533042
    Probably Location-based parsing. People in Canada might get a loadaout different than folks in the UK, for instance.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:36 No.3533043

    >> Personguy 01/27/09(Tue)06:38 No.3533055
    Let's get back to talking about the roguelike.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:38 No.3533059
    I'm thinking claiming areas near monster lairs or other double plus ungood areas would result in constant attacks. So once you come back to check up on that mining operation, all you find is corpses. Hiring more guards to cover the more dangerous areas would help to a point. But that's a) more expensive, and b) no amount of normal hirelings is going to stop a balrog.

    One thing I hate is being told something is impossible. So no "lol you can't claim this area". Instead, let the player waste resources trying to colonize a deadly area, and suffer the results.
    >> GETTING BACK ON TOPIC 01/27/09(Tue)06:39 No.3533062
    These are all excellent suggestions. I would play the shit out of a game like this. Keep shitty /tg/ fap material out of it and it will be awesome.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:39 No.3533071

    I just looked through his journals, he never says they're furry.

    Yes, let's do so.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:43 No.3533088
    Or alternatively, when you have a lot of phat loot and can afford the best of the best, a frontier settlement in the depths would be possible but difficult.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:43 No.3533090
    Since I am not one to quit picking at it,
    -the creator is a furry, as he admits to be one.
    -furries create their own messed up species and hybrids.

    By that logic, they are furry or the faptastic vore fetish creation of a furry UNLESS HE SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT THEY ARE NOT SUCH. Does he?

    The roguelike should have zombies. Viral ones.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:45 No.3533106
    What if you manage to hire a balrog? HUZZAH!
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:46 No.3533113
    Link to where he says he's a furry, for one.

    For two, when he first made them, he put them on 2chan and had never heard of furries. 4chan and 7chan got to them after than, and only after 7chan did a few artists start drawing them, the biggest one, RAGE, is not a furry, or at least wasn't at the time.

    Now can we please stop this little game and get back to the roguelike?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:49 No.3533134
    GUYS, stop talking about sergals, goddamn.

    Lemme give a definition everyone can love:

    The /tg/ stuff, the fluff and the D&D pages, should not be considered furry, as /tg/ doesn't sexualize them. However, the creator and the sexual images of them should be considered very furry.

    If you have to, consider them two seperate entities, the original, and what /tg/ has done with them. Like how there's Adam West batman and Christian Bale batman, the /tg/ ones are a different and much better version, depending on who you ask.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:49 No.3533136

    Eh, I don't know if having many stats would help that much.
    But that increasing weirdness just begs for some sort of sanity system. It could also be incorporated for the whole "the more you stay in it's harder to get out" mentioned in >>3531207
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)06:50 No.3533144
    His FA account profile box thing.

    And yes, let's get back to actually productive and interesting discussion. Furry.
    It would be interesting to have digging enemies. They are more feasible in this sort of game than DF since a single one would not fuck up your shit.

    Also, expanding enemy layers, such as ants and similar things. They might be able to dig into your camps and forts unless you reinforce walls.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:55 No.3533172
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    >I am Mick the furry Japanese.
    >I love my mistress sergal General Rain.

    Oh my god that's all kinds of fucked up.

    No wonder the sergalfags don't go by what he says...

    As far as many stats vs fewer stats go, depends on what you want. Streamlined a la GURPS is nice, but specific a la SPECIAL is nice too. Just pick a system you think will work and make sense.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:56 No.3533180
    You'd have to be one hell of a diplomancer to convince mortals to work anywhere near said balrog, and to keep him from eating your other hirelings.

    Deep, deep down beneath Spine of the World mountains, the legendary demon smith Iwilleatyourface labors, crafting the finest spiked dildoes ever known to man. This game is the story of a lone man, the only one brave enough, the only one foolhardy enough, to travel beneath the mountains and bring the master crafted spiked pleasure toys to daylight.

    Come to think of it, that probably should apply to most mixed-race camps. Getting dwarves and goblins to work together is going to be a challenge. Nigh impossible without either keeping watch on them all the time, or hiring a skilled diplomat to watch them for you.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:57 No.3533185
    Base it on HARP.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)06:57 No.3533187
    Sergal discussion belongs in Sergal threads.

    OP I like what you're doing, I just want you to know that I support you. However, I fail at non-tileset games, and am probably one of the few fa/tg/uys who hasn't played DF yet. Everybody at my local group has finally gotten into it, so I was thinking of giving it a go.

    I will definitely be trying your dungeon-sim though.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:00 No.3533199
         File :1233057631.jpg-(138 KB, 648x835, Predator.jpg)
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    I'm not a furry. Though I sure am a Xenophile.

    That said, I've never found sergals hot. I just really do like what /tg/'s done with them however, so sorry if I come off a little strong. I'll try to be less of a fanboy next time. Calling them furry like that just made me rage horribly, as I LIKE them as a race, I think they're interesting, and I hate to see them subjected to the whole "lol furry=automatic fail" treatment.

    On the topic of stats: I personally love the SPECIAL system, and there's a fantasy RPG out there that uses it. You should look into that.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)07:01 No.3533202
    They should atomically react to sunlight. I would do that as a DM, and would not care, since I am apparently stoned or drunk enough to run something like that.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:01 No.3533203
    You'll need some 'safe' agricultural areas OP. Where do people get their food? Maybe this isn't a problem for the weird-as-fuck monsters in the lower levels, but you ought to give thought to a food chain.

    For example, have massive fungal caverns
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)07:04 No.3533219
    They are not inherently bag, even if there's something about them that unnerves and subconsciously disgusts me about them. It's just that claiming that they are not furry is denial.

    Fuck yeah, pred booty.

    I hear that that fantasy game is very flawed. I do, however, have fan-made tabletop RPG books of SPECIAL that are very well done.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:06 No.3533231
    This. Fungal forest caves. Cave rivers and lakes. Moss fields with weird animals grazing on them. Nests and hives of native animals, aggressive or not. Bushes and tree-like fungi as random details in normal caves.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)07:07 No.3533235
    Fungus idea was suggested, but now...

    Have chambers full of natural spring water. They are isolated otherwise, or might have spiders/other things waiting in there. They have fungus, and maybe luminescent crystals. You'll need agriculture/fungal knowledge skill to identify them, since they might be mycanids, poisonous, or turn you into mushrooms too...

    If they're safe, you not have a safe place to grow them and get water.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:08 No.3533239
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:08 No.3533240
         File :1233058104.jpg-(129 KB, 479x666, myconid sage.jpg)
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    I wanna be a fungus farming fungus.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:11 No.3533248

    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:11 No.3533250
    I personally think it might be better if you didn't have a ton of stats you need to fight with... instead, the stats would make for more distinct characters.

    That is to say, Str would need heavy weapons and armor to gain its full benefit, Dex would need light weapons and armor. Finesse fighters have the advantage in one-on-one, not so much when surrounded (dodging/parrying), while a Strength fighter's defenses are omnidirectional usually (heavy armor/tower shields).

    Just in general... I recommend figuring out a way to make high level chars be as differentiated as low level chars, since in most games like this, you tend to start with a distinct char, and end with yet another fighter/mage.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:13 No.3533255
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    >They are not inherently bag, even if there's something about them that unnerves and subconsciously disgusts me about them. It's just that claiming that they are not furry is denial.

    That's alright with me, then. For most anons, anything furry = fail, anything furry is not fail, black and white, no exceptions. I assumed you were in that camp.

    On their creepyness/that fight or flight gut instinct, you're not the only one that they give that aura to. I'm not sure what it is, but some people just have an inherent fear of them, or at least get the feeling of imminent danger whenever they see them. I would, however, call this a feature, as since they're a lawful neutral race, you have to either control that emotion or goad them into fighting before you can do anything about it, and this leads to an RP you don't see every day. Plus, you know, character development, etc.

    OP, I have one thing to say: Make the final boss Flare, and the mid level boss a cylinder with Midna's hat on.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:14 No.3533257
         File :1233058484.jpg-(191 KB, 400x317, myconids.jpg)
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    Mycons up in this dungeon.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:16 No.3533260
    >OP, I have one thing to say: Make the final boss Flare, and the mid level boss a cylinder with Midna's hat on.

    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:19 No.3533268
    >anything furry = fail, anything not is not fail,
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)07:24 No.3533285
    For some reason I can't help but imagine this game with guns.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:25 No.3533286
    Make it so that you can have a family, and then take control of the son after he grows up. Or daughter, you know.

    Then make him have a brother that settles somewhere else in this dungeon.

    One day, son of player 1 was in blacksmith hammaring on sword. he received post from his brother that demons and monsters were attacking his place, and axed him for help.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:26 No.3533291
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    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)07:29 No.3533293
    +2 horse points, both of you.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:32 No.3533298

    The family sounds like an interesting long term goal. Maybe some mutations in dangerous areas / many generations? How about mutant like in Elona, growing new limbs every now and then?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:35 No.3533304
    Ya know what im sayin?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)07:59 No.3533370

    >I would, however, call this a feature, as since they're a lawful neutral race, you have to either control that emotion or goad them into fighting before you can do anything about it, and this leads to an RP you don't see every day. Plus, you know, character development, etc.

    Huh. I think I'll have to find some way to make a similar encounter for my group next tavern they run across.

    Dunno if I'll actually use sergals, but yeah. Probably will.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)08:10 No.3533399
    Guns. Who seconds that?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)08:12 No.3533410
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)08:14 No.3533416

    I'm all for it. But they need to be musket or some ancient firearm, and have an incredibly high chance of blowing up in your face.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)08:15 No.3533420

    Flintlocks, muskets, that stuff, yes. SMGs and miniguns, NO.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)08:20 No.3533442
    Could this thread be archived? Not necessarily suptg but...
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)08:36 No.3533508
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)08:36 No.3533514
    >> On topic Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)08:55 No.3533569
    Other creatures don't just attack you and only you. I'm imagining a situation where you stumble upon two guys going at it, each of them rolls for badassery/charisma/wealth depending on the situation and each creature decides whether to continue, flee, fight, etc.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)09:00 No.3533585
    The flip side of this is that creatures don't fight within themselves TOO much and end up walking into an area with tons of corpses and a couple of uber-creatures.
    >> Personguy 01/27/09(Tue)09:06 No.3533601
    How about randomly generated monsters using a token system? Difficulty level is represented by the number of tokens an enemy is allocated, and some tokens could take up multiple spots, for example, you could take a generic rat and give it [FIRESPITTING][BURROWING], giving it extra movement and attack choices, or you could go for something like [[ENOURMOUS]], boosting strength and size while lowering speed, and practically removing any sneakiness it may have possessed.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)09:11 No.3533620

    Hey, walking into such a battlefield would be most certainly interesting.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)09:26 No.3533667
    Obviously not modern-day guns. The highest tech-level should be something akin to the revolver.
    I'm for that, personally.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)09:33 No.3533698
    Are you shooting for different races or will stats simply make the character?
    >> The Janitor !vblZ4/wWS6 01/27/09(Tue)10:45 No.3534109
    My desire for some writefaggotry for this is growing. Here's what I'm thinking about writing about, tell me if topics like these would fit within this new bastard child of /tg/'s:

    *Cults forming, worshiping certain aspects/creatures of the dungeon
    *Archeology teams moving in
    *People forming shops and small villages in certain parts of the dungeon
    *Possible lore behind the dungeon, revolving around it possibly being its own planet (dimensional hijinks, ahoy!)
    *Epic retelling of great battles
    *The civilization behind the dungeon (gunna need the programmer's thoughts on this)
    *An angry space marine and his commissar somehow wind up in the dungeon and must "pacify" the inhabitants
    *Information regarding the "Last Boss"

    Any more ideas? Comments? Questions? I probably won't be doing as many stories as I will be writing things out like a history textbook; I find that my talents are best left to my own creations where they make sense, and that I should leave most fucking stories the hell *alone*. Seriously. I'm much better at creating lore...not so much describing the intimacy between a marine and his rifle.
    >> DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)13:34 No.3535111
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    Surprising that this thread lasted all night. Thank you, furfags!

    I was planning on doing a cave fungus as food which grows and spreads near sources of magic, so I like the thought of random types of cave fungus, some of which are deadly. Roguelikes are based on food as a limiting factor, so I'd like to keep the intra-dungeon food opportunities scarce. If you want a large base, you'll need to trade for food, which means you'll need to explore for shit to sell.

    Re: map levels you aren't on, I'm hoping to fully simulate whichever region you're in, even if you're not on the same level. When you go to a different region, your old one is still there, but I can cut corners in simulation. Things will just teleport to their destination, vision isn't really factored into calculations, etc. I could also do the whole thing by numbers: your X followers are attacked by Y goblins, goblins die but kill Y/(X+Y) of ur doodz, etc.

    Shit shouldn't just up and disappear unless you're *deep* in the dungeon, in which case your biggest worry should be eldritch horrors materializing from nowhere to feed on the organs of your citizens. A higher-reaches base with continual forays into the deeper parts sounds is what I'm shooting for atm, but it's still pretty early in the game. I don't even have a creature who hits back yet.

    Incidentally, when should I push out a (pre-pre alpha) version of the code? When I've got an enemy up and running? The first full level?
    >> DorfHack, the /tg/ roguelike 01/27/09(Tue)13:35 No.3535113

    I was kinda hoping to slip in a doomrl region, every dozen games or so. It'd be an optional easter egg region so you'd have to explore more than usual to find it, but you'd end up with a combat shotgun and a very limited supply of ammo. Guarded by a cacodemon or two. It wouldn't be enough to significantly affect your gameplay, but it'd be a neat thing to have on hand when a hideous undead abomination comes a callin'.

    If you haven't played doomrl give it a shot, it's surprisingly fun.

    Proceed. Specifically, I'd like ideas on what a new visitor to the dungeon would encounter his first time in, given that it's been there for fifty some years, constantly drawing people in. I was thinking a horde of really weak scavengers who jump ya as soon as you enter, and a near-starving fortress on the next level, with whom you can trade, or lead, or raze.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)14:44 No.3535549
    Oh man! My GM did his carbon copy of Doom in GURPS on sunday. I was the only one who won out of a party of 3. The basic enemy was over 200 points stronger than us, could teleport and turn invisible, etc...but our weapons. Oh man, our weapons.

    He had us play Doom 64 on an emulator to see what our starting stats were.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)14:48 No.3535585
    Finding more epic stuff down in dungeons.

    And more frequently. Not too frequently, but not so rare it happens to one player in a hundred years.

    Like instead of just being blatant enemies . Like maybe find a black market sort of place. Or encounters that are not necessarily combat like some monster that would be really hard for you to beat guarding a bridge over an endless gap and there's toll to get over.

    I don't know. Just make it feel a little more alive than just LOL SMASHAN EVERYTHING
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)14:49 No.3535596
    You'll need way more easter egg and premade regions. Also, have a nethack-like tendency to save and reuse levels, repopulated of course, but with all the environmental changes from before intact, the fluff saying something about the chaotic changes not being constant throughout the whole dungeon.

    Have a chainsaw be guarded by a few deadites.
    A multi-legged walking chest made of sentient pear wood that is strangely incredibly powerful, able to dish out a lot of damage. If you slay or pacify it, it's insides contain a LOT of gold and food, as well as other things meant for selling like clothes and baubles from the gift shops of many different nations.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)14:51 No.3535606
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    Include Sergals, Derpheads, Raegfaces, and the flare+cylinder with midna's hat stuff, OP.

    Derpheads and Raegfaces are mushrooms with faces. The derpheads say "Derp!" over and over and once in a while a Raegface grows opposite them and glares at them.

    Also, Ameratsu as a goddess. Or however you spell her from Okami.

    Include all these things and you will have a /tg/ related setting.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)14:53 No.3535619
    Amaterasu. Dammit.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)14:55 No.3535631

    dont be a faggot
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)14:56 No.3535638
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    Yeah, her.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)15:11 No.3535740
    why is that image 1900x1200 pixels
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)15:26 No.3535824
    Ever played Ultima Underworld? There's some pretty awesome stuff from there that you could use.

    Speaking of which: containers. Doesn't do anything about your carry weight problems, but makes it easier to hold and organize that odd assortment of scrolls, potions, and miscellaneous foodstuffs that crawlers always need.

    Also, you could include a few specific artifacts that nerds (fa/tg/uys in particular) would recognize. A +4 flaming greatsword, bags of holding (multi-dimensional devourer optional), a rod that does massive damage to anything west of it when activated...
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)15:28 No.3535834
    I'm seeing a lack of risk-reward consideration here. For instance, "a +1 sword or a ring that encases you in ice". Fuck trying to get anything if you either get something marginally better than what you have or LOLSORANDUM death.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)16:02 No.3536098

    Depending on where you live you will get diffrent resultes due to diffrents server processing your requests differntly.
    >> The Janitor !vblZ4/wWS6 01/27/09(Tue)16:32 No.3536371
    Fifty years prior to the day, the vaults of Borra Kaaj were opened for the first time to the modern world. Scores of treasure-hunters, thrill-seekers, and sell-swords raced into the decrepit halls of this hallowed tomb, seeking fame and fortune to sate their thirst for glory. They came with frail hearts and fragile minds that were not ready for the nightmarish creatures that lurked within the shadows, hungry after all these millennia without a staple food source as rich and abundant in nutrients as living flesh and emotions. Those who entered were driven mad by the beasts, and even more-so from the wondrous creations that were nothing short of miracles that lurked within the vaulted dungeon.

    In the present day, the interior of the dungeon has formed into its own society of rogues and well-wishers. When you first enter the enormous golden arches of the vaults, you will be met with the sight of a great city, a village of people who have become well-adjusted to buying and selling what relics have been found by those few who are able to keep their sanity as they try to delve deeper within the dungeon. Within the city are four factions that have learned to co-exist with each other in order to survive in this gruesome place.
    >> The Janitor !vblZ4/wWS6 01/27/09(Tue)16:33 No.3536379
    The first of which is the Society of Magical Artificers. These mystics, as powerful as they are aged, spend their days learning to control this new power that exists within the dungeon that grants them the ability to cast magic, identify rare items of power, and try to figure out how to shut off the portal that doesn't let anyone out. The Ranger's Reach has little to do with actual woodland rangers and more with hunters, barbarous fighters, and trackers, that help to defend this city and scavenge for edible meat and flora. The Keepers of Light are a group of individuals who hope to promote the wisdom of the Gods of each religion, promoting both new and old faiths to those who have been trapped. The final faction is the Cadaver's Cross, people who sell their swords and skills to the highest bidder, spend their days in gambling houses getting drunk and enjoying the company of women, and otherwise losing themselves to the dungeon in a much more civilized manner.

    However, after you become properly outfitted in one of the many shops, you will soon learn the true horror of your situation: You are trapped in a dungeon filled with monsters that are well over five times your size, and the only way out is a portal that was unlocked by the first, and only, adventurer to make it to the end of the dungeon. The mages may have found a way to allow inorganic objects to go through the portal, but they are a long, long way away from figuring out how to send living things back from where they came. This notion will be made apparent to you as those who have lost hope, and turned into foul, green-skinned Goblins in their madness, begin to pour in from all sides and encircle you. Weak, barely intelligent, and in a perpetual daze, their only strength lies in the fact that they exist within the hundreds.

    Good thing you brought your weapon.
    >> The Janitor !vblZ4/wWS6 01/27/09(Tue)16:35 No.3536395
    Sorry for the delay and crappy writing, I cooked this up in five minutes after my hard drive died for a bit. Turns out, overclocking is a bad thing. Who knew?
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)16:41 No.3536441
    Have it so diplomacy is an unlikely option in most circumstances.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)17:32 No.3536877
    No, That should be half the point.

    If a race is neutral or good, you should be able to talk to them or signal peace so they don't attack you.

    Evil or otherwise, have at them, especially chaotic.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)17:33 No.3536895
    A rod that does massive damage to the west only? That's just fucking reta-*CLANG*

    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)17:39 No.3536955
    Name a crawl game where it is ever a feasible option with any chance of success.
    >> Albert Hillbreaker 01/27/09(Tue)17:43 No.3536991
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    (sry for my bad grammar ima german)



    I love the mutation part in dungeon crawl

    It would be awesome if lower levels, potions or creatures could fuck you randomly up in some strange way. New abilities, handycaps, useless shit... like stone skin, wings, a sixth finger, a second penis... fluff-ish RP shit

    How about this: If one cannot withstand this degeneration, you fucking lose your mind become part of the dungeon. "no john, you are the demons"-style

    another idea: the strange monsters you encounter on the way down, are degenerated adventurers.

    the dungeon would be a perferct system. adventurers come to raid the dungeon, and the only few who manage to not getting killed by its monstrosites, also become monsters when they go deeper there should be a small chance to get to last level, where the adventurer encounters the mind raping secret of the dungeon, lovecraft style.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)17:44 No.3536999
    Why should that matter? Why can't that be a feature of the OP's game that's unique to it? You don't HAVE to rip off nethack in all aspects for it to be good, it can be good but different.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)17:44 No.3537002
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)17:45 No.3537004
    I find a world where not everyone is an enemy to be more believable.
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)17:50 No.3537059
    I was just responding to anon saying 'oh hai, i gotsa great idea! dis crawl game should be like a crawl game! INGENIOUS!'

    Personally, I'm for the diplomacy with friendly monsters and raiders.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)18:18 No.3537292

    Another sergalfag here, this is one of the reasons I love 'em as a monster race. They're like gnolls, but if you want to, you can interact with them on peaceful terms and trade with them instead of always fighting all the time. In my campaigns, I make Kobolds and especially Drow the same way.
    >> Anonymous 01/27/09(Tue)19:53 No.3538144
    Bump for interest
    >> Xom 01/27/09(Tue)20:25 No.3538356
    Oh, another idea. The first 5 or so levels could be just an evil-looking temple that doesn't change, so every time you start out it's the same and populated. You gotta find your way to a portal lower. Maybe the 5th level shows some very minor details changing over time?

    THEN you plunge into chaos!

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