if you can't answer this question yourself, you're probably not a practiced enough roleplayer to pull it off.

make them try talking first, and then eventually let them roll, eventually they'll get better at talking. Don't be all like "SORRY, YOU STUTTERED, THE NOBLE WILL NOT TALK TO YOU AGAIN DESPITE YOUR MAX CHARISMA AND 20 ON YOUR DIPLOMACY ROLL!", that's just going to ruin it for everyone. Rolls aren't supposed to determine what's being said or not said, they're supposed to determine the positive/negative reaction of what's being said, in that way guiding the direction of the conversation, not BEING the conversation.

>>3371519

You can't, any more than a retard can successfully play a smart character who solves all the puzzles the GM throws at the party. Many systems have social mechanics, but I've never met a player who likes them- its just one of the things RPGs do poorly.

I give bonuses and penalties to rolls depending on what the player says and how he/she says it. But still this >>3371551. Most neckbeards would be outspoken by a lvl1 commoner.

>>3371538

Well, please forgive my lack of experience, I'm still relatively new to this whole roleplaying business. Care to give some help out to someone who can't grasp it yet?

>>3371551

Well, intelligence isn't usually something that RPG players lack, since the hobby of RPGs is something that tends towards people with above average mental capacities, what with how it takes decent brainpower to take in and remember the rules of multiple systems. As much as RPGs are a people activity, however, a lack of social graces isn't too uncommon amongst players.

i still ask them what they say, but then just leave the result up to the roll. as he said. he still has to make a fool of himself (if the guy is making a fool of himself, he probably needs practice speaking in general anyway) but it doesn't ruin the result for the party.

i hate when quiet players always play silent, brooding badasses.
>>3371544

guy roughly explains his argument, "im going to explain to the king just how incredibly awesome i am, hopefully he'll pay me more" dice rolls, player fails or wins, either way the DM explains how the conversation went and the key points of it, simple

This is one thing that is always hard to do. I personally ignore rolls for the most part when it comes to talking to others in the game because it's a roleplaying game not a game where you just roll dice and that's the end of it. RPGs are in many ways amateur acting and if he can't at least come up with corny lines from the movies then he should play something he has the RPing skill to play.

>>3371636
You okay, son?

>>3371610
Oh this is rich.
Touhoufag, legendary maxer of mins and gamer of power, does not know how to roleplay? Should've known.

>>3371610
You have to pretend to be the person you are playing in the RPG for the duration of the game. I'll let Gandalf explain it for me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43sbtkQM6zc.

>>3371654
I am so totally using Uncle Albert as an Imp guard Vet NPC now.

>>3371636
this is bullshit and you should get that stick out of your ass.

One of the benefits of roleplaying is that you can try behaving in a way that you otherwise would not think you were capable of doing in real life, without any consequences. If a shy silent guy wants to play a suave smooth-talking character, he's not going to be acting it out very well, but it certainly won't help him that you as a DM punish him for his OOC problems. If anything you should push him into taking charge of conversations, his character is the smooth-talking suave charismatic guy in the party, the people they are talking to will of course sense this and primarily talk to him when talking to the party. If you're then not a retard, and doesn't just let him go "i tell him i want a cookie *rolls d20*", but instead say "eh? what do you tell him? talk to me like i was him", and then the player will stumble a bit, make a sort of a fool out of himself, he'll then do his check and succeed, but he's going to be acting it out again and again and again, and in the end you'll have a much better roleplayer, and a much better person, and you will be a much better DM for not being a "people have to play themselves" prick.

The same with people having and int 18 character and being bad at puzzles, have the players work on

>>3371660

I think he was being sarcastic.

The answer is simple: LET THEM ROLL FOR IT. Most games have rules for applying the system to social situations; so let them use those. Not allowing them to because you think that it "enhances roleplaying" is unnecessarily restrictive.

>>3371676

This man speaks much truth. Heed him.

>>3371676
>HURRR I CAN'T ROLEPLAY SO I JSUT WNAT TO ROLL DURRRR

>>3371636

I have to say I agree with this guy. It`s a roleplaying game. You should be able to play the role you chose for yourself. I would never play a female character for example because I would never be able to portray her right.

>>3371692
It's easy to play a female character, play it exactly the same. Gender is hardly important in most RPGs.

>>3371660

Well, I'm learning, I'm learning. I'm in this one game where I'm... well, I can't really say I'm the party face, but I somehow ended up as the character with the worst social skills in some aspects and the best social skills by a very wide margin in other aspects. It's not D&D. I've only really been in one situation where my high social skills were put to good use, and although it was successful, I felt that my lines were either corny or half-assed, and everybody was just letting me off easy.

>>3371636
>>3371676
Both of these people are on the right track, but on very opposite rails, Touhoufag. Try to find a happy medium between the two and you'll do fine, imo.

ITT LARP faggots or trolls

I think that a good way to solve the problem of people playing characters much smarter than they are(chances are you're not int 26) is just to give intelligence checks to get hints or allow people to just ask the dm "Is this a good idea and am I forgetting anything" etc etc.

As for roleplaying, you can do something similar. Charisma checks to perceive extra details about the other person and exploit them, etc etc. One of the most powerful methods of expression is body language, and that's difficult to get across when roleplaying, especially online. A character with a good charisma score may be stuttering, but their body language, tone etc etc make sure that nobody ever forgets or ignores them. Simply factoring this in when dealing with these sorts of social encounters can be a huge help at "bridging the gap" between an inept player and an amazing character.

>>3371660
That could be one of the Touhou Proxies

>>3371688
that's not what i said, try reading it again.

one of the best GMs i ever played with forced me to be the leader of the party when i had chosen a leader-type of character, made me actually make the decisions and take charge, which doesn't come naturally to me, helped me be a better roleplayer a ton after that, and helped me mature a lot in real life too, and at the same time, everybody had fun, especially at my expense watching me frantically go "WHY DO I HAVE TO DECIDE FFFFFFFFF". But that's one of the strengths of roleplaying, that you can explore roles in a safe and friendly environment.

>>3371732
>HURRRRR I'M A SHITTY ANTI-SOCIAL FAGGOT WHO HAS TO PRETEND TO BE A MAGIC ELF TO BE CONFIDENT DURRR

Should have known touhoufag was a social fuck up.

Learn something new every day.

The problem, in my opinion, is the existence of stats like intelligence (and, to a lesser degree, charisma) and skills like fast-talking in the rpg rules. If these stats exist, then outcomes should be determined by dice rolls. If outcomes are determined by the actual intelligence and fast-talking skills of the player, then the stats shouldn't exist. If the stats exist, but the outcomes are dependent instead on the player's skills and intelligence, then it's tempting to use those stats as dump stats - in which case the GM might decide to apply heavy penalties, giving a situation where you need not only good character stats but also real-life abilities to match.

>>3371670
>You have to pretend to be the person you are playing in the RPG for the duration of the game.

And that doesn't help if you can't do so, like a socially awkward bastard playing the king of smoothness.

>>3371759
missedthejoke.jpg
I assume you didn't watch the video.

>>3371749
And what's wrong with wanting to learn how to rectify that?

>>3371670
Holy shit. That is the best actor ever.

>>3371739
oh you trolls, not putting much effort into it today are we?
>HURR I HAVE TO PRETEND TO BE A TOUGH GUY ON THE INTERNET TO BE CONFIDENT BECAUSE MY LIFE SUCKS

>>3371797
>HURRR YOU DISAGREE WITH ME YOU MUST BEA TROLL DURRRR

I used to have next to zero social skills until I started LARPing a high-cha character without telling anyone.

They got a bit confused when I started inquiring about the mythical jade monkeys of Amman H'uu.

>>3371749
>PEOPLE POSTING ON THE INTERNET AREN'T THAT GREAT IN SOCIAL SITUATIONS HOLY SHIT NEWS AT ELEVEN

>>3371703

Don't feel that way; Everyone starts at one point or another. Also, don't be afraid to ask the players "Am I talking
like a moron?"

>>3371810
Just because youre a social retard doesnt mean everyone else is.

How has such a good topic devolved into shit throwing?

>>3371840
Sagefags usually wake up around 8 am.

>>3371824
I never said that I was a social retard, now did I?

I try to train them. Had such a fellow in my Eberron game. My college gaming club as one of its informal functions helps socialize people who would otherwise never leave their basement, so I wanted this guy to not be so socially crippled. Literally, when he wanted to haggle with a merchant to drop the price, he had no idea what to say, I even gave him a minute or two while we handled something else and he just had no concept of negotiating protocol.

So in such situations first you start off easy with giving them lots of prompting. No getting off easy with just a dice roll, but no penalty for being socially retarded yourself. Give them a few things they can say. As time goes on, give them less and less prompting, and then start having the NPC give them some back and forth instead of single statement interactions. Eventually they'll be able to manage it on their own and maybe when they have to talk to people in real life, they'll actually be able to do so.

Saying that you should only roleplay a character that has the same capabilities as you is stupid. If Loveably-Slow Steve wants to play the dashing and charismatic nobleman for a change instead of being forced into being BIG DUMB BARBARIAN #4, then good for him; he shouldn't be punished just because HE wouldn't know exactly what to do when meeting a king.
Forcing your players to only play characters that are like them is essentially just saying "It's only roleplaying if you act like you normally would but imagine you're wearing a wizard's hat".

>>3371886
If you are playing yourself then you might not know what to say but RPing is about being somebody different. Your character knows what to do and you just do what your character should do, people should have watched enough movies or read enough books to know what a character will do in a given situation. It's not that fucking hard.

>>3371703
>the character with the worst social skills in some aspects and the best social skills by a very wide margin in other aspects

How the hell does this work?

All solutions are guided by rape.

>>3371953

Bluff, diplomacy, gather information, etc.

>>3372033
>It's not D&D.

>>3372062

Sorry. Didn't see that.
Now I'm intrigued.
>>3371703
How the hell DOES that work?

>>3371953

Well, it's nWoD, and most people in this thread probably wouldn't understand the specifics of the stats, so the important part is that I play an antisocial little bitch who has a hard time relating to people, grasping social norms, and talking casually WITH people; but can sure as hell bully, persuade, and lie to people for manipulative purposes, just like your typical antisocial person. Now, what I'm worried about is the fact that a bunch of the other characters have dumped social skills and attributes (except the one that gives you more Willpower and Initiative, of course), and yet they come off as better speakers because their players are less socially terrible than me, and few dice ever get thrown around for social skills.

I might just be wallowing way too much in self-doubt right now though.

>>3372093
>Now, what I'm worried about is the fact that a bunch of the other characters have dumped social skills and attributes (except the one that gives you more Willpower and Initiative, of course), and yet they come off as better speakers because their players are less socially terrible than me, and few dice ever get thrown around for social skills.

Lol Composure. This happens all the time in my games.

>>3372093
Don't worry so much about it, it's just amateur improvisational acting the main thing is confidence. Just say what you feel that your character would say in the situation and you'll be fine.

>>3372114
Yes, and presence is ignored ALL the time.

I sort of have the opposite problem. I'm... well, I don't know if I'm charismatic really, but I'm the most articulate person in our group. This means I wind up being the party face, even if that wasn't the intention, on the other players' insistence; they know from experience that if one of them does the talking, even if they're playing a high-social character, they'll stumble and miss-speak, blow their cover, and insult the dangerous nobleman or whatever, and wind up having to make social skill roles to back out of the trouble they get into.

On the occasions I don't want to play the face, I make a low-social character and roleplay it; a mechanic who thinks humans are junk and only cares about machines, a priest who considers everyone a despicable sinner, and so on.

The problem is, when I do that, the group gets fucking hosed. We wind up in fights we could have avoided, we alienate allies, we get killed, and I wind up rolling up a high-social character again so we can get through the game.

Any advice?

>>3372116
>Just say what you feel that your character would say in the situation and you'll be fine.

I think NOT knowing what to say is the problem here. Mainly a self-confidence thing, as you said.

>>3372172
tell your DM to give the other players a break when they're the face, or i guess they'll figure it out sooner or later.

>>3372093
That's how WoD is, especially vampire, that's why it's primarily played by amateur theatre fags who do mind's eye LRP on the side.

>>3372177
>>I think NOT knowing what to say is the problem here. Mainly a self-confidence thing, as you said.

No, it means actually putting thought into the character as a person. It's not a matter of self confidence, it's a matter of caring about and actually putting thought into background, motivation, etc.

The self confidence part comes in being able to pretend you're an idealistic price charming in front of a bunch of people. Acting, basically.

Even if you're the best RPer ever if you cant talk worth shit in front of people you cant do well as a social character.

So just go by rolls.

>>3372511

>being able to pretend you're an idealistic price charming in front of a bunch of people.

This is where the problem is. So, let's say I've got the motivations, the philosophies, the outlook on life, the attitude, and the personality of the character down. Great, now I just act it out, and here is where the roadblock hits: the character is good at coercing and deceiving people. I cannot coerce someone if my life depended on it, and I can't fabricate good lies either. Social skills like that aren't gained very easily.

>>3372587
>I cannot coerce someone if my life depended on it, and I can't fabricate good lies either.

If you can't coerce or bluff someone, then don't play a character who's good at doing those. Simple as that. Your fault for choosing to play that kind of character.

>>3372617

WOULD YOU TELL SOMEONE WHO CAN'T BENCH 500 TO NOT PLAY A BARBARIAN?

WOULD YOU TELL SOMEONE WHO CAN'T PICK A LOCK EVEN IF HE'S GOT THE KEY TO NOT PLAY A ROGUE?

THE WHOLE IDEA OF ROLEPLAYING IS THAT IT FREES YOU UP TO PLAY ANY CONCEPT YOU WANT, ALLOWS YOU TO IGNORE THE LIMITATIONS YOU HAVE IN THE REAL WORLD.

>>3372617
But that's why we play the game. If we could do it in real life we wouldn't need to pretend.

>>3371660
Leave him alone. He's trying, and that's more than some can say. Did you just sprout fully formed from the aether, a perfect roleplaying God? Since I'm expecting a 'no', stop being a moron.

>>3372093
>I might just be wallowing way too much in self-doubt right now though.
Don't, and I'll help you from now on.

What you need to do is think about what the 'target' wants. There's no use selling ice to an Eskimo. Or, in the case of a manipulative bitch, what they DON'T want coming out, and then you can blackmail them.
For the most part, it's not that you're bad, it's that you're afraid of doing things.

Think about how people will react (IRC gives you more time for this, and you don't have to stumble over your own sentences) and play to that. Just figure out what a character's goals are, and 'feed' them. That's Manipulation.

One the other hand, you can just TELL them to do what you want, and they'll just drop all over themselves to do it. That's Presence. Presence is nice and all, but since your character can't really do much of that unless she shows a little leg or something, you might want to focus on the trickery and deception. Lead a conversation, but make them think you're following. Use weaknesses (like being a child) to your advantage. I can't give an example at the moment though.

>>3372625
Benchpressing and lockpicking are examples of physical activities, and thus, a player's actual physical abilities do not need to map out to his character's, silly Mr. Rage. However, a player's mental and social abilities do have to map out to his character's, because they are inherently tied to one another and must match up.

>>3372617
>>I cannot coerce someone if my life depended on it, and I can't fabricate good lies either. Social skills like that aren't gained very easily.

It's common sense. Don't be an ass, appeal to what are obvious priorities, etc. You don't actually have to make a stone cold solid case. Just make a general appeal, roll the skill, and go from there.

It's actually the simple act of saying it that trips people up.

The Paladin is dealing with a money gubbing merchant. He knows the guy loves money. It's a simple matter of fact that offering money or pormises of money will be a good way to convince the guy to do something. "Would you do it for a few gold coins, perhaps?" "Maybe some gold will loosen your tongue?" "I know every man has a price, what's yours?"

If only the player would say something like THAT other than, "I offer him some money to do it."

>>3372680
Hi, Edward.

Didn't see you around earlier today when Jim Profit came back and was acting like a fucktard. I, for one, am still convinced you're the same person.

>>3372688
>It's common sense.

You'd be surprised at how alien the concept of appeal to another person's desires is these days.

>>3372681

HORSESHIT.

TELLING THE SCRAWNY NERD HE CAN PLAY A 42STR BARBARIAN BUT THE SOCIALLY-AWKWARD HERMIT CAN'T PLAY A 42CHA SORCERER IS HYPOCRISY TO A FUCKING TEE.

THIS IS *WHY* GAMES COME WITH SOCIAL SKILLS, WHY THEY COME WITH INTELLIGENCE STATISTICS, SO THAT THE ABILITIES OF THE PLAYER DON'T LIMIT THE MEASURE OF THE CHARACTER.

I'LL BET YOU'D LET THE "PARTY FACE" GET AWAY WITH 4CHA, 0RANKS IN ANY SOCIAL STATISTIC, STILL TALK THEIR WAY OUT OF EVERYTHING.

>>3372717
>>You'd be surprised at how alien the concept of appeal to another person's desires is these days.

It isn't any less common now than it used to be. It's a matter of getting the players to open up and act. Acting in front of others has always been something many people find trouble doing.

Play an online game, and people tend to open up more, usually because they aren't as nervous, since there's no big crowd.

>>3372587
>>3371519

oh lordly lord, look at that slut of a moeblob

>>3372721
Tell me, when you're playing a game at a table, barring external circumstances outside of the game, do any of your physical abilities actually matter? No, they don't. But do your mental and social abilities matter? Yes they do, and that's why they should be inherent to each player and each player's character. A character's mental and social abilities should conform to the player's, because otherwise, things will be out of sync and horribly wrong, giving rise to predicaments such as the one the poor OP is suffering.

Roleplaying is simply the most basic concept of acting. It doesnt matter if you are charismatic or not, if your character is, then that's how you play it, what YOU are like is unimportant. For example; I'm usually a pretty quiet/shy and socially awkward person, but when I'm the charismatic swashbuckler and party face, I'm outspoken. I play the character the way I created him, a loud, sarcastic, douchbag, who cant got over how great he is. It's very different from who I am, but then, I dont go dungeon crawling very often ether.

>>3372788
superior moe

>>3372721

You always have to use the player's abilities (contra character's abilities) to some degree. Otherwise the entire game turns into "I roll to win the adventure."

Intelligence is one thing where we should agree this is true. There is no GM stupid enough on this planet to allow "I roll against my INT to solve the puzzle/come up with the best tactic/figure out what we need to do here". If a game has a brains stat, it represents something completely different than what the real world intellect is.

It's also true that the character's abilities have to be figured in at some point. Nobody wants to, say, have their combat medic character clean and dress wounds describing their actions step-by-step, when they themselves (nor the GM) probably have no idea how it's done.

There is a line that's got to be drawn somewhere. The only question is which side of that line conversations are.

>>3372792
>YOU CAN BE ANY CONCEPT YOU WANT, BUT ONLY IF YOU'RE SMART AND SUAVE ENOUGH TO PLAY IT

FUCK THAT NOISE. IF I WANTED THAT SHIT I'D GO BACK TO THE REAL WORLD WHERE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO SUCCEED WITH ANY REGULARITY ARE THE PRICKS AND THE PEOPLE SUCKING THE PRICKS.

I don't see an inherent problem with demanding that the player is good enough to realize the concept of his character. Want to play a history professor? Then learn some fucking history. You can't? Then you can't play a history professor.

Warriors and wizards we can exempt from this, because it's very natural to draw the line between physical and mental. Any physical thing you can do if the numbers on your sheet say you can. Any mental thing you have to do yourself.

>>3372795
>>3372792

Do you make people stand up and swing a stick around at the table to show they are swinging a sword? At the very root of it you are playing a game. Roleplaying should be something you do to add to the fun of the experience. If you change it to a "You must roleplay or you can't do it" or "You didn't roleplay good enough so you fail", then you cut the game out of it. Without the game part of it, you are larping, storytelling, or otherwise just pretending.

>>3372795
This is the best advice.

You have to play PRETEND that you're someone else. you may be too shy to do something, but your character isn't. You have to just toss away that you that wouldn't say things. You're the you that will say things, the you that's a social monster, that could trick a hundred soldiers into killing themselves. You're the you that can turn enemies into friends, and friends into enemies.

The you that can't do those things is not you, because this new you is you. The real you ceases to matter. There is only the character.

>>3372870

That's stupid. All "roleplaying" is IS formalized make-believe: "let's pretend".

>>3372869
Well fuck your games then. I'm glad I don't know any asstard like you in real life who would seriously make anyone who is functionally retarded play a character with 8 Int every fucking time. Fuck you and fuck your games.

>>3372688

Well, appealing to someone's wants is much easier said than done; simply figuring out exactly what someone wants can be a hurdle, since a lot of social situations aren't clear cut negotiations. That, and figuring out the way to say it, is what I find so hard; the game I play in pretty much never does "I tell him _______", since every conversation is done through character lines, unless it's something like "I tell him the long-winded story of how we got here."

>>3372884

Dude, I would not play with a retard, period.

>>3372878
listen to this fuckweed, he seems to know what he's talking about

>>3372880
Well if you make roleplay>stats and skills then take the social skills out of your game completely, then tell your players that all social related stuff is handled by roleplay. Hell then take all Mental related stats and skills and cut them out too. Since you have to be smart to play a smart character. What are you left with? Well you said the only things that don't depend on the player are the physical stuff right? Well there you go, all you have left is physical on your character sheet.

>>3371551

You're a fucking idiot. Have you never heard of World of Darkness?

>>3372870
unless you play exalted

>>3372917
of course.
unless you play exalted

>>3372902

You say that like it's a bad thing.

It goes like this: if you allow people to disarm a trap with a single die roll, that's all they're ever going to do again. They will never think about the traps, they'll just roll and ask if they passed. There is no incentive for them to do anything else because they know the "flavor" is an illusion, all that matters is the die roll.

Social rules do this exact same thing for conversations, persuasion, threats, bargaining, questioning, lying, joking. I rolled a six. Does he laugh? I guess my joke was not a very good one then. Better put more HORSE POINTS into my shit next level. That's all they will think about.

This is bad. We do this for combat because it'd be unfeasible to require players to have mock-fights with boffer swords. But with mental actions, we don't have to.

>>3372878

Okay, let me try to give an analogy here. Let's say you want to be an actor who does mock sword fights for plays in Renaissance fairs or something; those fights are probably nothing like the real thing, and don't require you to be a tournament-level fencer, but if you can't swing a sword without clumsily fumbling with your blade, then you can't do it without making a fool of yourself.

Similarly, let's say you want to be a socially awesome chracter in an RPG who can coerce and deceive the shit out of someone; those social situations are probably nothing like the real thing, and don't require you to be an actual cunning manipulator, but if you can't speak up without clumsily fumbling with your words, then you can't do it without making a fool of yourself.

Does that make some more sense?

A player's ability to persuade should not affect her character's ability to persuade.

If it does, you're a bad storyteller.

End.

>>3372900
... would you like to play a game of PRETEND?

>>3372892
Sometimes people wear their wants and needs on their sleeves, some don't. That's where you take advantage of things. Moments can pass in seconds, and seconds can pass in minutes. Take that time to carefully piece things apart. Take apart people and you figure out what makes them tick, and then you can figure out how to make them tick the way you want.

Take Juste. His goals are clear. He wants to keep people safe. This generally extends to Adelle, the rest of the cabal, everyone in his field of view, and the rest of civilization. Give him a reasonable suggestion of something to save someone, and he'll jump without looking.
That's a good way to get him to jump where you want. Even if it's off a cliff.

>>3372902
Fucking this. Why even have social skills if you just allow your players to roleplay around it. Roleplaying is fun, don't get me wrong, but if you let people with 0 socialize(or <10 Cha, or <insert relevant social skill from any system here>) get away with roleplaying his character talking to the king or CEO of a company then you are a bad DM/GM. People who want to roleplay being a social character should be forced to spend the skill points to do it, not just get them for free because they good at acting.

>>3372962

So? Removing any mental and social skills is standard houserule for me in all games.

>>3372936

The roleplaying only comes if the players want it: social rules or no social rules.

Why are there social rules? For the same reason there are combat rules or rules for sneaking and trap finding. It helps in determining outcomes during challenges.

I don't roll for social encounters just like I don't roll for all combat encounters (sometimes the Fighter just hits the Goblin commoner and it just fucking dies) or all obstacle avoidance (yes you jimmy the lock open with a piece of wire).

If a character wants to roleplay, they'll do it, whether they role play someone who likes to talk a lot, or someone who's really quiet and does other things. I've had a players roleplay a mostly mute character (and not because he was stupid or a bad roleplayer).

>>3372973
Well that's great if the people you play with like that. A lot of people don't.

>>3372949
Pick up the waster and keep going.

So long as you continue to pick up your sword, you can be trained. As long as you're willing to learn from the fumbles and just keep swinging, then you'll get better. Don't worry about it, and just KEEP SWINGING, you may drop your sword, but it everyone has to start somewhere. The only time you'll be doing it wrong if you keep trying is if you ignore the fumbles. Learn from them, each mistake can be corrected.

>>3372973

...now, I'm all for roleplaying, but I'd have trouble playing under you, TBH.

But oh well, to each his own.

>>3372987

Yeah, but there's an important difference: if you fumble during traing, you get embarrasment and maybe a bruise. If you fumble horribly in the middle of a negotiation and the DM goes "Sorry, that's stupid, and no, your smarter character has said exactly what you just said"... well, you just lost the encounter, instantly, and diplomatic encounters have the tendency to carry some nasty consequences if truly botched. It's more like fumbling during an actual swordmanship play - do it too much, and the director or the other actors are just going to kick you out for being useless.

>>3372973
That does let your smarter friends dominate. Essentially, they get more stat points than everyone else.

>>3373040
Well, that is true. But most GMs, and our ST, will not be so unyielding. It isn't good to do during the play, but if every time it happens, you pick it up again, and honestly try, then the mistakes should get less and less.

Then again, I suppose training would be in order either way?

>>3373096

Protip. He doesn't play like that. He'd bork stuff like Will saves, all casting classes, knowledge skills, etc.

>>3371739
>>3371807
>>3372869
>>3372792
>>3372617
>>3372973
>>3372936
>>3371824
Who let the trolls out?
Can't believe this huge shitstorm all started from one retard(troll).
>>3371636

>>3372987
>>3373040

Well, see, I'm good at playing the Socialize 0 part... because playing a socially dysfunctional character is kind of like playing myself to an extent. But it's the fuckhuge dice pools for Intimidation, Persuasion, and Subterfuge parts that make me stumble, because I'm no good at applying the social pressure. Still, I guess I have to try, even though my attempts at using some of those skills will end up in me looking like a fool. But there's the problem: it's either I train in the game and, yes, make a fool of myself, or I go outside and seriously try to level up my talking skills somehow, which isn't something I see myself doing.

>>3373104
Did you miss the fact that he is playing WoD and not Mind's Eye?

>>3373130
Isn't Mind's Eye basically WoD LARP anyway?

>>3373129
Well, as always I'm going to encourage you to go outside, but reading things might help. Read a real book, not a splat book. With protagonists and antagonists and all that.

Training outside the game could be helpful though. The ST may not be there, but the rest of us are. We'll help you.

Intimidate: Tell them what to do. Or else.
Persuasion: Convince them to do it.
Subterfuge: make them think they want to do it, or that they have no choice.

>>3373154
yes, but a LARP and a RPG have a little bit of a different feel. It seems like the people who have been preaching roleplaying>die rolling must be larpers, despite the fact that this is not a larp game.

>>3373203
>Intimidate: Tell them what to do. Or else.
>Persuasion: Convince them to do it.
>Subterfuge: make them think they want to do it, or that they have no choice.

You have no idea how hard to do this can actually be for a nerd.

>>3373270
Hey, I can shout at the top of my lungs and not be heard, but in an RP I can make a whole room stand at attention.

Everyone has seen someone like this before. Someone with these skills. The idea is that you PRETEND to be the character instead of yourself. That's the secret. You don't ask what would Touhouguy do in this situation, you ask yourself "What would Adelle do in this situation?"
And then even if you the player would be afraid to do that, you the character shouldn't be. Do it, and don't look back. You may fumble, but everyone fumbles in the beginning.

>>3373270

"You have no weapons. I have a sledgehammer. You're by yourself, I've got buddies. You've got something valuable, I want it. Let's cut a deal; you give us the McGuffin, and we don't drink wine out of your skull later tonight. Your choice."

"I'm sure we can come to a reasonable agreement regarding this magical artifact. It just so happens that we, too, have an artifact of great prestige. If you'd like, I can tell you about it and show it to you, and we can come to a decent agreement regarding a trade of these two items."

"Your lord knows you've got the McGuffin, and we know he's a cold, heartless bastard that will kill anyone who works for him regardless of how faithful and dutiful they were to him, if he thinks they're no longer useful. Think about it; you're charged with guarding that object, but what happens when your lord returns and he takes it back from you? You've been hiding out here in the middle of nowhere, and you've been given nothing but some steel armor and a sword with which to defend the artifact. No soldiers, no grand fortifications, nothing. He considers you expendable. Give us the McGuffin, and we'll be able to give you the kind of power and glory you hope for. It's the only way for you to survive; your Lord's already set you up as a throw-away."

>>3373326
But that's D&D-flavored shit and he's playing modern-day Mage.

>>3373414

Still the same basic principles.

>>3373326
How long did it take you to type those? And how long would it take for someone who sucks at social stuff to think of them himself?

I think D&D is inherently flawed when it comes to balance and monsters because of the drastic elevation in power from level to level (well, more like in 3-level increments).

I always thought a game that didn't focus as much on HP gain and constantly getting innovative ways to deal more damage would be more balanced and more fun to play.

Like, a game focused on getting abilities that really allow you to change the basic rules of the game, thus allowing you to string together awesome combos and change the syyle of gameplay rather than choosing a generic character class and getting abilities that just do more damage and maybe throw in a secondary effect (that usually does damage or alters an ability score).

>>3373129
Touhouguy, you should give your character a drastic personality change next time she bumps her head on something. Try playing her as meek and kind for a while, and take not of all the times when you COULD have done something mean and intimidating, but you didn't. After a while of that, you can switch back with another concussion.

Trust me, it'll help. And you GM will almost certainly be okay with it if he knows you want to do it to get more in character. I had a socially inept guy in one of my groups do it, and now he's actually socially passable.

>>3373414
"Fate... can do a lot of things. Do you know how often people forget to look both ways? It's... pretty scary when you think of all the ways that people can get hurt. I saw this movie once, and just... out of nowhere people would die."

"Now, Mister, could you please help us out...? I'd really appreciate it if you did. Wow, is it getting hot in here? Do you mind if I take my shirt off? Well, we really need your help, and if you help us, we'll, um, well, we'll help you. You want to help me, don't you, mister?"

"You know, I hear that there's some bad people who want that thing you've got. They're probably going to do nasty nasty things to whoever has it when they catch them. Oh, you should see what they've done to the other people. I heard one person's heart exploded! What? What's that? You want us to take it? Well, I //guess// we could take it. Are you sure you don't want to keep it?"

>>3373456
Doesn't need to be that long, it's just an example. When you're going back and forth with things, you'd be surprised how fast they can go.

>>3373456

Not incredibly long, though admittedly the "subterfuge" form was harder to think up and the "intimidate" was the easiest.

When you're going to intimidate someone, keep in mind what glaring advantages you have over them. If you can seriously fuck their shit up, then tell them, explain to them the many different ways you've got the upper hand (I've got a weapon, you don't, I got a friend, you're alone).

If you can't do that, the most basic form of persuasion is offering a trade, either a service for a service, a good for a service, a service for a good, a good for a good, etc. Just try to come off as sincere or trustworthy, and, since this isn't subterfuge, fucking follow up on it. If you tell a guy "You blow that gasket over there and we'll help you leave alive," fucking protect him. This will make it easier for NPCs connected to that guy that hear about you to believe you when you try to persuade them. Otherwise, just offer a convincing argument. (We need to band together to survive. You've got the skills, we've got the firepower, let's work together.)

Subterfuge is really difficult, basically you need to talk them into a corner. Explain to them either how much in their interest it is for you to take that item off their hand, how they're going to be betrayed soon enough anyway by their partner/higher-up, how they're going to be dead weight or useless without doing what you want, etc. This is like persuasion, only you don't need to actually do anything as followup and you're relying more on lies and deceit than equal cooperation. Think back to when you were a little kid and your mom almost caught you doing something bad; how did you pin the blame on your little brother or sister instead?

>>3373533
Another good way to Persuade is to have Striking Looks and show some skin.

Remember that.

>>3373482

Okay, uh, how the HELL is this supposed to help? I don't even know if there would be much situations to stay passive in instead of going out and social-fu-ing someone.

>>3373497

>"Now, Mister, could you please help us out...? I'd really appreciate it if you did. Wow, is it getting hot in here? Do you mind if I take my shirt off? Well, we really need your help, and if you help us, we'll, um, well, we'll help you. You want to help me, don't you, mister?"

See, this is an example of one of the things I'm afraid of saying, because it will sure as hell make me look like a jackass. Particularly because it's excessively whorish and out of character.

>>3373634
>"Now, Mister, could you please help us out...? I'd really appreciate it if you did. Wow, is it getting hot in here? Do you mind if I take my shirt off? Well, we really need your help, and if you help us, we'll, um, well, we'll help you. You want to help me, don't you, mister?"

Okay, I'll admit that's a bad example of something to say for Persuasion.

>>3373634
Then don't say that. (Though really, that's the kind of thing Striking Looks is for)

Say something else. Be persuasive with more "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours"

I can really only speak for my character in the game, but if you want to persuade him of anything, convince him that someone close to him (specifically Adelle herself) will be in danger. As long as it isn't blatantly obvious, then it will work.

Also:
Always be specific when you lie.

>Cloaca munching
... I has no pretty words.

>>3373634
I idea is that you'll get to stare at situations without having to fumble around and worry that you're going to need to intimidate someone. I think. Or the guy who said that was trying to get you to stop playing your character. Probably the second one.

Also, if intimidating people isn't coming up often enough, you should say something about it to your DM.

>>3373662
I couldn't think of anything else that used Striking Looks ;_;

>>3373666
>>3373634
Basically, the idea is a simple one.

From viewing things outside of what you're supposed to do, you're free to see them from the other side. Or at least from the outside.

Most of my characters are, in a word, talkative. They will lead a conversation where ever I want them to, even the dumb ones who don't even know what they're doing in character. If there is more than a minute of silence, chances are my character will say SOMETHING.

And then I go and play a shy character, who is completely dependent upon other people. She won't open her mouth unless someone says something to her, she can only talk to one person without shrinking in on herself, and while she can be bright and vibrant when she's alone with that person, if there's a single third party she will be quieter than a churchmouse.
I still make her actions speak loudly, but she will say NOTHING.

>>3373729

And to someone who enjoys leading the conversation, someone who likes to keep it at a flow, someone who quite frankly enjoys taking charge of it, sitting out and watching as other people take over in that respect is interesting. When they fumble, I notice, when they succeed, I notice. When I could think of something interesting, but my character wouldn't speak up, it sticks with me. Maybe not the actual circumstances, but the feeling, and that's something I can use in the future.
It's annoying, when your concept keeps you from jumping at every call, but you can learn. You can learn quite a bit.

That's what's being suggested. Sit, wait, watch. And then, when your character is ready, that's when you strike.
Maybe not even amnesia or anything (though the Multiple Personality derangement could work), just don't do anything until you're sure. Sit there coiled like a serpent, don't strike though. Hell, PM me, or the ST, or anyone, and ask questions. I guarantee you will get help. We'll train you with the swords.

In a play, it's one thing to fumble. The director gets angry, you get canned. This is improv, though. So long as you can land on your feet, it's never too late.

>>3373665

>Always be specific when you lie.

The other points I understand and will try to account for, but this I don't follow.

>>3373666

>I idea is that you'll get to stare at situations without having to fumble around and worry that you're going to need to intimidate someone.

Well, isn't that just going to deprive me of my chance to try and practice the social aspect, making it counterproductive? I've only had one real chance to apply social skills across the past 5 or 6 sessions, really; and like I said, although I succeeded, I felt that my lines were corny and horrible and that everybody was just cutting me some slack.

>Also, if intimidating people isn't coming up often enough, you should say something about it to your DM.

Well, there are certainly less situations that call for the kind of subtle intimidation that a manipulative, bullying 15-year-old girl can bring to the table than, say, the kind of overt intimidation that a commanding, imposing, badass adult man can put forth.

>>3373675

I'd somehow think that Striking Looks is more of a passive thing when it comes to persuasiveness, and that there's no need to actively use it unless you're specifically trying to... seduce someone.

>>3373733

I... still don't see how this plan is supposed to work out. And it'd delay the plot some more, which is already moving slow enough.

>>3373675

Striking looks generally works best for subterfuge-type tactics, like "You do this for me, I'll like you." Generally, if it's the opposite sex, people are inclined to do more things for pretty people. You don't NEED to promise sex, just that you'll like them; that allows them to imagine how that'll develop from there and the idea of what can happen will be more than enough encouragement to help.

>>3373855
>The other points I understand and will try to account for, but this I don't follow.
When you lie, make it sound like you aren't.
Not "I was doing something"
"I was over a friend's house, helping fix the computer"
It's Gibbs' Rule #7.

>Well, isn't that just going to deprive me of my chance to try and practice the social aspect, making it counterproductive?
Half of training is theory. Some fencing schools would make you wait years before giving you a sword, if we want to continue the metaphor.

>I felt that my lines were corny and horrible and that everybody was just cutting me some slack.
Which time was this? Probably, but then again, you don't put all your power into a swing when facing a trainee.

>I'd somehow think that Striking Looks is more of a passive thing when it comes to persuasiveness, and that there's no need to actively use it unless you're specifically trying to... seduce someone.
Well, it doesn't come into play into everything. It's all about using the looks. It doesn't have to be so overt and slutty as that, that's just the stereotyped use (a busty woman getting out of a speeding ticket, for instance)

>I... still don't see how this plan is supposed to work out. And it'd delay the plot some more, which is already moving slow enough.
Not really, as you said, your character isn't really leading the party at the moment anyway. Better to sit back and watch for a few weeks, because then once you've taken notes or whatever your method is, you can come in full charge and command even the big badass scary guy.

>>3373891

So... even a forced and somewhat contrived offer of "... and I'll like you," tends to work?

>>3373930

>Not really, as you said, your character isn't really leading the party at the moment anyway. Better to sit back and watch for a few weeks, because then once you've taken notes or whatever your method is, you can come in full charge and command even the big badass scary guy.

Well, uh, I think I'm supposed to be learning a legacy now, so sitting out for a few weeks for the purpose of rethinking the way I play the character might be out of the question. Besides, with everything I've picked up so far from this thread, I think I'll do fine even without enacting that plan.

>>3374008

It works in real life, it'll work in fake life.

>>3374008
Well, you don't NEED to go look for a legacy right away. You realize don't you that the faster the game moves (mechanically if not narratively), the faster it will end?

But yes, you may not need to fall back on that.
And yes, something as simple as "I'll kill you" is sufficient, though you should push yourself, and explain HOW you'll kill them. It's not so threatening when little girl says she'll kill you.

Until her threat is punctuated by her touch withering a plant, or otherwise giving a glimpse at what pain she can bring to bear.

>>3374011

Well, who am I, someone who really does suck at social stuff, to say that it shouldn't work?

>>3374027

>Well, you don't NEED to go look for a legacy right away.

Actually, I'm already in the process of attaining one, and I think that the "lol get amnesia and be a meek and shy girl for a month's worth of sessions" plan will just severely delay things, since this thread has already taught me much.

>And yes, something as simple as "I'll kill you" is sufficient, though you should push yourself, and explain HOW you'll kill them. It's not so threatening when little girl says she'll kill you.

Well, I don't think most subtle intimidation attempts will involve death threats, that's why they're subtle intimidation.

>Until her threat is punctuated by her touch withering a plant

That's you, Mr. Death, the monster that can only destroy and not create (other than ectoplasmic bukkake). I, on the other hand, am rolling with the Life.

You know, Touhoufag, you haven't been that bad at speaking up for yourself in this thread. You're actually quite eloquent. So why can't you apply this to conversations in RPGs?

>>3374094
>That's you, Mr. Death, the monster that can only destroy and not create
;_;

>>3374157
Actually, I noticed that a long time ago. It's because we're talking TO him, not WITH him.

We're both sitting in the same IRC rooms at the moment, but he still would prefer my advice go here.

>>3374157

Why, thank you for the compliment. Explaining your problems in a thread, which lets you take as much time as you want in typing up a reply and reviewing the past posts, is quite different from acting out applying social pressure (whether it be through intimidation, persuasion, or subterfuge) in a real-time conversation. Granted, the real-time conversation is over IRC where you can similarly type something out and review past messages, but it's still quite a different beast.

Look into systems like nWoD. While there are many parts of it that I don't like, I really, really like the idea of splitting all skills and attributes equally between Mental, Physical and Social. If you think about it, it really makes sense, and removes the whole mindset of "battles all the time or its boring" from the players. It also encourages them to actually do some social interaction, since they have just as many tools for it as they do for combat. I really can't play a system any other way enjoyably any more.

>>3372800
Who is this?

>>3374180
>Actually, I noticed that a long time ago. It's because we're talking TO him, not WITH him.

You lost me.

>>3373855
>manipulative, bullying 15-year-old girl

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha what. This changes everything for the advice given in this thread so far.

>>3374375
Basically, there's a distinction between being talked with and being talked to. In being talked to, you don't respond until it's all over. It's also why he has a tendency to answer each separate issue separately.
In talking with someone, it's a much quicker pace. 4chan may not be a forum, but in a way it is. He can take more time can be taken in a conversation in an IRC room.

It's that distinction, that difference, that's the fundamental problem at play here.

>>3374254
...

We ARE talking about nWoD.

>>3374429
oh u

Bump.

>>tl;dr = How do you handle a socially-inept player who wants to play a socially-adept character, and not make a fool of himself when it comes to being the party face/manipulator?

I use a system that, unlike some other retarded systems whose names I shall not utter here, actually gives Oratory the same importance, in terms of mechanics, of knowing how to wield a sword.

>>3377080
So you boffer LARP just to see if someone can swing a sword or shoot a gun? Or, perhaps that's what you actually play: LARP games?

>>3377468

Uhm, no. Vast majority of tabletop do this...

Well done, op, using a socially inept character in your image, by the way.

>>3377493
Speaking of which, who the fuck is she, again? The puppet one? I left 4chons for winter break, and now I can't remember the names of most of /tg/'s non 40k characters. Also, someone remind me why the fuck no one talks to her.

>but I've never met a player who likes them- its just one of the things RPGs do poorly.

Social mechanics are awesome. In Reign you can learn special social moves the same way you learn special combat moves. The 'Path of the Moistened Eye', for example, involves being a grovelling little bitch to get what you want.

Sample ability: 'Exquisite Whine'.

>>3377493

Actually, I just used it because it wasn't too blatantly Touhou on first glance. That, and it was the same pic I used in another RP advice thread I made a month or two ago.

>>3377514
Her name's Alice, I think. She's needy and talks to puppets.

To tell the truth, I don't really care.

>>3371613
WELL I HATE IT WHEN FAGGOTS DON'T CAPITALIZE I.

Holy shit this thread is FILLED with assholes.

>>3377551
You're on /tg/, you devilishly handsome motherfucker. Of course this thread is full of assholes.

>>3377551

To be fair, however, it's also contained lots of great advice, which I've taken to heart. I offer my thanks to everyone who's been helpful in this thread.

>>3377514
Alice, only friends with puppets, leaks poop(?)

>>3377577
Awww, I'd give you a brofist if I had one saved in my copypasta folder.

>>3377577

I hope to get in a game with you one day, Touhoufag. You seem like a pretty cool guy.

>>3371519

Make him roll DC influenced by the GENERAL IDEA of what he says.

SCOUTING AGENT WEARING OUR ARMY'S COLORS, WHERE ARE U TAKING THAT PRISONAR?

DC 15: Cell transfer, medical inspection because of bad food, interrogation (might even be lower)

DC 20: Above, only handled more ineptly.

DC 25: If you don't know who I am, I'm doing my job right. (Personal experience with this 'un, first session I ever played)

>>3377577
We shall see how well you've taken it to heart.
Either way, keep picking up the waster and I and the others will make sure that you drop it less often.

Touhoufag, you shame those of us who both optimize and roleplay.

>>3377582
I can confirm that Alice does not in fact leak poop.

>>3377632

Well, you'll have to bear with me and take it easy on me at first; I tend to have trouble adjusting to new games with new people. Yesterday, I joined a couple of pickup pseudo-freeform games over on a /tg/-related IRC channel with a group I had never played with before, and I did terrible because everything was all so impromptu and I wasn't prepared for it; I had to bail out on both games shortly after they started. But put me in a game using a system I'm familiar with, a group that I'm also familiar with, and an ample amount of preparation time with specific details beforehand, and I suppose I'll do fine.

>>3377681
So what IRC channel can I find you in?

............./´¯/’...’/´¯¯`·¸
........../’/.../..../......./¨¯\
........(‘(...´…´…. ¯~/’...`)
.........\.................’...../
..........’’...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(

BROFIST FOR THE TOUHOUFAG, HE WHO IS LEARNING

>>3377728

Uh, #miko on the irc.aniverse.com server.

>>3377735

Cool fist, bro. Nah, really, thanks for the help so far.

>>3377790

FAGOOT FAGOOT FAGGITY FAG FAG FAG

I love you Adslahnit. In the anal violation way.

>>3377819
It's 'Ads'.

>>3377841
Either work.

>>3377735
He may be sorta bad at roleplaying, but trying to learn how to get better at it is a good sign.

>>3377908

I'm only interested in holding him softly while telling him everything will be alright, and then deftly inserting my member into his sweetened anus and feeding the flames of my passion with his sweet cries for help.

>>3377928

>>3377961

What, it's a valid kink.

>>3377681

Hop by on irc.thisisnotatrueending.com #suptg. I'm thinking of running an nMage game with most of the established fluff gutted, due to my distaste for the Towers. It will be far more UA-like in it's "Holy shit we're together and we can do crazy shit but we have to try figure more shit out" feel that I'd like it to have.

If you'd pop by the channel #clarencemage , I'd be glad to have another player.

As I stood over the trembling figure of Adslahnit, I knew it was time. All of the planning, effort, and hard work I had put into my plans would finally pay off. Slowly unzipping the front of my pants and allowing my engorged member to sway freely in the breeze, Adslahnit could only whimper softly to himself, knowing what would shortly come. Bringing my right arm up, I dealt a humiliating blow across his face, sending him to the ground and my long awaited prize straight into the air, ripe for taking. I advanced upon him, sticking my length into him like a hot iron searing into butter, his cries for help and feeble resistance only sending me deeper into the throes of passion. I moved within him, back and forth, like a piston of an engine, mind blanked to all other stimulus besides the motions of love and sounds of flesh upon flesh. His cries intensifying, Adslahnit tried once more to wrest himself from my grasp, however his attempts were futile and soon orgasm was upon me. Like a typhoon upon the Philippines, my seed washed upon his shores with unparalleled force, causing Adslahnit to scream out once more, this time in the throes of ecstasy rather than pain, his form growing limp in my arms. I wipe the drool off of my face and look across the room at my next target grinning wildy as my eyes fall upon the man known as Speciniff.

>>3378088
You are a terrible writer.

>>3378088
... Oh God, what?

Ten points to Gryffindor, now pardon me while I run my brain through a cheese grater.

>>3378088

My issue isn't that I can't speak in character, I just don't want to. I'm more for telling them what my character says and telling the DM what I'm putting emphasis on in-character.

>>3378127

HAHA I WIN I MADE HIM TAKE A TRIPCODE

:powerthirst: I WIN AT EVERYTHING FOREVER

>>3378088

This is so horrible that it's actually funny.

>>3378156
I always tripcode when someone that isn't me says they are me.

You made me cackle madly and wish I could find the Event Horizon AWESOMEface. That is what you win for.

>>3378088
...Touhoufag's from the Philippines, IIRC.
Heh.

Anyway, this recalls a friend's attempts to write RL slash of our group of friends. There was one between two of the girls I knew (to this day they will smack him if he mentions sundaes) and one between myself and my best friend (our resident mega-homophope). You have a similar writing quality and far better English.

>>3378169
For you ed
>>3378088

>>3378169

Now Edward-chan, pweese come back to #miko, wes missus yew :3

>>3378231
Dear lord no.

>>3378252

But we unbanned you. Please? ; ;

EDWARD. WHY WON'T YOU FUCKING LEAVE? THIS IS NOT YOUR LIVEJOURNAL, TWATBAG.

ITT: /tg/ proves that no one could conceivably play a successful Sorcerer, Bard, or Diplomat, because HURRRR YOU CAN'T ROLEPLAY SOMEONE WHO IS MENTALLY DIFFERENT THAN YOU DURRRR

>>3378391
gb2/wine/

RPGs don't have to acting games, dumbfucks.

Play something like Dogs in the Vineyard where the rules extend beyond killing stuff.

I come back to this thread and see IRC nicks posted (fuck you, no nicks spoken on /tg/) and a terribad slash fic, and not much more helpful advice posted. I'm somewhat disappointed.

great thread actually

>>3378088
May Lord Soth find you in your bed.

Eventhough I have no idea who the persons mentioned in the story are.

Rule one, and most important: Make shit up as you go along.

You don't have to think about things too much. This is more difficult to do in an environment where text is the main form of communication, but even so, try. Just type up the first thing that comes to mind and send it out there, and to hell with the consequences! Things like this might sound cheesy, or make you look like a fool, but you have the perfect shield - it's your character speaking! So what if your charismatic talkmaster says something outrageously silly, everyone does that.

You can get rather far with simple logic, in diplomacy - all you need to do is say things with a straight face. The problem is that not all characters are suited to this type of easy-mode diplomacy, but that's a risk you'll have to take.

Plain persuasion is mostly easy, once you cut it down to components:
1. Find - or guess - something target wants to happen.
2. Explain how doing what you want target to do makes that happen.

Deceit and manipulation has an added step, and as such, might be more difficult. The actual spoken lines should be easier, though.

1. Find - or guess - something target wants to happen.
2. Find something the target might be willing to do that causes your desired effect to happen.
3. Explain to target how doing the something they might be willing to do will make what they want to happen happen.

Hostile diplomacy like intimidation is more difficult, but still very much possible.

1. Find -or guess- something the target does not want to happen.
2. Explain how not doing what you want target to do will cause what they do not want to happen to happen.

Finally, out of character, always keep a cool head in interactions with other players and DMs. Respond to criticism rationally and admit to mistakes if you agree you made them, or even if you don't, if it's a minor point not important to you.

>>3378078

Oh, well, I'm there now. The nMage game I play in had the Paths with the Watchtowers and the Supernal Realms all gutted too, but the Orders and shit like the Abyss stayed for some reason, which is kind of a good thing. Though, I dunno if things will work out if I join your own game; as I've said, I've very recently learned that I have much trouble adjusting to new groups (knowing the idiosyncrasies of the members, the references each one will catch, and the level of certain things like weeabooness that the group in general will tolerate is something I take comfort in), so I'll be stumbling a lot in trying to get a feel for the game.

>>3380306

>You can get rather far with simple logic, in diplomacy - all you need to do is say things with a straight face. The problem is that not all characters are suited to this type of easy-mode diplomacy, but that's a risk you'll have to take.

This is what I've been trying so far: calmly explaining, through logic, why it would be a good idea for the person I'm speaking to to follow my request, and telling them that it'll be fine and there will be less problems if the request is fulfilled. That's how I would perform diplomacy if I was better at it, anyway, the kind with me wearing gloves and clasping my hands together to smoothly and calmly explain my request. Only, certain people (by that, I mean Edward) have said in the recent past that it's much more effective for a 15-year-old girl to cry and whine to someone to convince him, which I certainly have much trouble understand. I've even gotten suggestions along the lines of "You have boobs. A bit of them, at least. Use them," when asking for OOC advice on how I'm supposed to persuade someone, and like hell I know how I'm to act that out.

>>3380437

Edward is a moron. You know that.

>>3380437
That's where the cool head comes in. Do the things certain people (and certain Edwards) say seem reasonable and make sense to you? Would you consider those suggestions appropriate for your character? If yes, feel free to adopt them as much as you like.

Sure, a fifteen-year-old girl might receive greater benefit by crying, whining and rubbing her DFC against things, but not all (or rather, barely any) fifteen-year-old girls would want to do that. Another possible approach might be to turn on puppy dog eyes and/or activate the harmless-little-girl engine - but I see nothing wrong in adopting the reason-based school of diplomacy for your character, especially if that works best for you.

>>3380489

>I see nothing wrong in adopting the reason-based school of diplomacy for your character, especially if that works best for you.

This is my favorite kind, the kind that you'd see someone like Zhuge Liang using to kick ass at debate with a feather fan in one hand and a funny hat on his head, though I've somehow getting prodded into the more lewd method of diplomacy. It doesn't help that a decent chunk of my bonuses for social skills come from being an attractive-looking girl, and that my dice pool for seduction is 3 higher than my one for logical and reasonable diplomacy.

>>3380437
>>3380489

Spicing things up in situations in where spice is good can be quite an enjoyable experience in RPG's specially if the G.M knows how to handle the situations at least in where said NPC that has been given spice will blush off instead or try to change the topic(which in real life happens a lot).

Of course there are times in where the DM may instead do the opposite("so, want me to buy you a drink *wink,wink*) so be ready on that part. Either you be the one who blush off or try to give more a serious undertone and be more diplomatic which will give hint to the DM that you dont want "lol, random sex or NPC raep me scenes".

Now of course do not do these in serious situations or under certain people, like the king of the land or that person who wants to kill you.

>>3378088
I puked a little

>>3378088

You... ARE a dickGIRL, right?

>>3380590

Okay, granted, I was somewhat fine with actively using my Striking Looks 4 for persuasion at first. But after seeing how it went down (that is, very awkwardly), my interest in that method sort of declined.

>>3380704

Um, please explain what you mean by "blush off".

>>3378268
>But we unbanned you.
Oh, but he's in the autokick list.

>>3381158
Loli: *looks lost* Uhhhguuuuu.... Sir, sir....

NPC guy: *snobbish* The heck, what do you want? ... and what are you doing in this kind of tavern?

Loli: Uhhmm... (looks lost again) sir, do you know where can I contact sir William of Helmsdoor. I am suppose to make contact with...

NPC guy: William? Damn missy, I am not the guy to be asked shit like that, if it is the sword or the gold someone may open his mouth around here.

loli: Aawwww jeezz mister(rubs elbow on npc's tummy), you seem to be the kind that knows this place. Well it appears I am some what mistaken... I am very sorry.

NPC guy: Ooohh..... you silly, of course I know something like William... or someone from Helmsdoor, by the way what type of things do you want to know missy?


Make an impression, and sometimes put a little spice to make your roleplaying fun. Be witty or copy witty remarks from what you saw or heard and you will get his or her attention.

Of course do not overdo it though because of certain perils specially if you use a female character for that, one time my character is abused by the D.M(dry humping and malicious massages) because I go way overboard. ;_;

If all fails, favors will always work, I scratch your back, you scratch mine. Works all the time at a reasonable price.

>>3380913

uuhhmmm.... no

>>3381463
But does a fifteen-year-old girl still count as loli?

>>3381900
depends too much on race, location and physical traits, but I'd say no if tipical animoomoo female

>>3381900

Well, the 13-17 range for anime characters is rather odd, since the size of a girl's endowments is a very transient thing which can swing either way. Indeed, certain Touhou characters appearing in that age range are depicted to be flat-chested (with figures almost like true, prepubescent lolis) in some pics, modestly-stacked in other pics, and sometimes even full-blown boobinites. Aya and Patchouli, for example, are a real mixed bag when it comes to this.