No touch attacks in 4e.

>>3215573
what? Why would they take that out?

Well, would it count as "Attack one foe and charm another" then in 4e terms?

EVERY FIELD

>>3215573 4e sucks, you can't make babies

>>3215573
That's not true. A few of the wizard powers have "Range Touch." This is equivalent in every way to "Range Melee 1" but whatever.

Alright, would it count as a touch charm in 3.5e then?

Pic is animooted, by the way.

>>3215573
Any attack that targets reflex instead of AC is essentially a touch attack.

This is how succubi work in 4e.

>>3215606
That's much less cute than OP image.

>>3215606
>Wis 19
>Kurumu
no... at least not yet.

>>3215606
See, this is why I don't like 4e design. All monsters are just combat machines and made for combat only. Take a look at the 3.5 succubus, which had a whole slew of out-of-combat abilities.

>>3215710
Well, they have shape change and a few skills, but you're right, that statblock is 95% combat.

rolled 3, 3, 4, 7, 4, 4, 4 + 10 = 39

>>3215585
Are you sure? I'm pretty sure it would be Close burst 1, then Target: One creature in burst.

>>3215710
Yeah, or you could just use your magical DM powers and make her do whatever you please, douchefag.

>>3215710
>>3215737
>Yeah, or you could just use your magical DM powers and make her do whatever you please, douchefag.
This is in fact what the design team encouraged on ENWorld when this was brought up. Monster's non-combat powers were usually clutter in the stat block, useless in 90% of encounters, and forgotten by most DMs. If you need a monster to have non-combat powers, just give them some.

Also: Holy shit, a new edition of a game about killing horrible monsters in dark caves and taking away their treasure focuses on the abilities a horrible monster will use when you try to kill it! Alert the fucking media!
Repeat after me: D&D WAS NOT, IS NOT, AND WILL NEVER BE A GENERIC RPG. IT HAS A DESIGN GOAL. IT HAS A CENTRAL PREMISE. IT HAS A FOCUS.
Nobody would listen if someone came on here complaining that Dark Heresy gave no support for his game Iron Chef: Squig Challenge.

>>3215752
B-b-b-b-but Kurumu isn't a horrible monster in a dark cave.

>>3215752

An enemy can be challenging in ways other than "It hits you with a (+1/ fiery/ of the Eagle) stick". A succubus is traditionally a cunning manipulator; surely some abilities relevant in that sort of out-of-combat indirect conflict situation would not go amiss?

Oh, right, I have to make up my own or else I have no imagination.

>>3215862
Ante up, faggot. What did they have in 3.5e that would fit that description?

Oh, wait, you would've led with that were you not a troll.

>>3215862

Well, here's a fairly simple sample 4e encounter with a succubus that doesn't involve anything vaguely sexual at all, an excerpt from the levels 7-10 Pyramid of Shadows module:

www.wizards.com/dnd/files/excerpts/Excerpt_H3_G3.pdf

The PCs enter a room filled with four angel statues chanting a hymn of the gods of Mount Celestia. If a PC approaches the statue, it speaks out and requests that the "valiant hero" rescue a "holy priestess" (actually a succubus in disguise) "trapped in her own chapel by devils" in an adjacent area. If a PC approaches the statue, it gets hit by a Will attack, and if it gets hit, the PC is hit by the succubus' Charming Kiss attack until the end of the encounter without his knowledge, making him unable to attack the succubus and more pliable to her commands. The PCs then find a young and pretty little priest girl inside the chapel, which they then help out by going through a skill challenge to break the divine bonds preventing her from leaving the room. On each failure, a pair of legion devils pops up and attacks the party. If the skill challenge ends up completely failing or if they attack the girl, a final pair of legion devils pop up, and she joins them in attacking the PCs in frustration. If the skill challenge succeeds, she simply walks out of the chapel and teleports out, without even letting the PCs know she was a succubus.

So there, that's one way you can throw a succubus into a short encounter in 4e.

>>3215606
I laughed at the way this is so similar (control 1 opponent) to the WoW succubus.

>>3215898

WoW senses...tingling!

>>3215898
That's a good idea.

>>3215898
So what does the succubus gain from doing this?

>>3215960

For one, she's trapped in the immediate vicinity and prevented from winking out of the Pyramid (which is an anomaly of space-time where creatures randomly get sucked in and have few ways to get out), and there are actual bonds sealing her and preventing her from leaving the room. It's just that she plays it up as it being due to devils rather than chains of holiness. And... yeah, that's more or less it, she mainly just wants out.

Now, this only gets perverted if the PCs (or, more appropriately), suddenly decide that it would be a good idea to rape what appears to be a vulnerable and lonely little priestess.

I rather liked the examples of Succubus dickery in this thread.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/3122692/

>>3216003
I like that thread a lot.

It gives me an idea. Would it technically be an evil act to summon via Planar Binding creatures like succubi or whatever to just give them a pretty flower and tell them "I command you to have a great day." and then send them back?

>You know that girl who you had a massive thing for, all those years ago? Remember how she knew about it, and either crushed your self-esteem, or teased/used you without ever putting out?

>The succubus finds her, kills her horribly, then takes her form and offers herself to you in as slutty a way as she can to help you work out your anger over it.

If a succubus did that for me, I would probably break down crying with affection, that a demon waifu would go to that effort for me. :3

>>3216236

Just as "good" as summoning an Archon, to spit on it and tell it to fuck off is "evil".

>>3216236
>>3216290
Then what about a devil summoning Anonymous and telling him to have a nice day?

>>3216393
You..you.. DOUBLE EVIL

>>3216236
Great day would probably include cutting every inch of skin of some paladin she had tempted to fall, all the while laughing at the poor bastard
for being stupid enough to ever think she could ever care about him, or that he even deserved to be loved in any way.

Remember, the thing is evil.

>>3216420

Then after her great day of paladin torture, a balor in a string vest kicks in the door and demands that she cook him dinner while he anally rapes her.

Succubi don't have many great days.

>>3216570
>>3216570

With that sort of environment to come home to, I'm surprised more Succubi don't try and find a nice, kind Paladin to try and redeem them.

>>3216612

Because they figure the paladin is just going to use them in the exact same manner as the balor does. And when they seduce the paladin and tempt him into evil, he proves them exactly right, so they proceed to brutally torture and murder him for living down to their expectations.

>>3216570
>>3216629

I don't know about you guys but I don't think I'm going to be able to look at a Succubus in the same way ever again.

>>3216645

Good, that'll make it easier for them to get past your guard and screw you over.

>>3216612
>Humans suffer from the air they breathe, since some sceintists claim it actually ages them. With that way of living, I'm surprised they don't simply go ahead and just stop using air to survive.

You can say this thing, as well.
These things are MADE from Evil, as well as either Chaos or Law.
Getting one to be redeemed is about as likely as walking unharmed within the sun itself when you are talking about odds and such.

>>3216629
Must be why most of them, when they FIND said Paladin, go with them, or a Wizard, strangely enough.

>Getting one to be redeemed is about as likely as walking unharmed within the sun itself when you are talking about odds and such.

That's a bad example, since surviving within the sun is flatly impossible, whereas redeeming a demon is merely highly improbable.

A better example would that it's as likely as teaching a cat to play monopoly.

>>3216690
So should redeeming something forged from Evil itself be.

If you want your Outsider sex, go with a Good Outsider instead.

>>3216690
So going to do this.

>>3216696

Fallen angels, risen fiends, rogue modrons, and sensible slaad all exist. They are rare, but they do exist. Please deal with it.

>>3216714
Out of an infinite amount, they exist, sure.
I mean, lets talk about the Blood War for a while, shall we? The Demons fight with the Devils, but they still only send out a smaller part of their numbers agianst them, while the majority of them aren't there.
But the Demons are infinite.
So that means that an infinite amount of demons are fighting in the blood war since a percentage of infinity is still infinite. To match that, the devils have to be infinite as well, otherwise the demons could just swarm them and kill them with superior numbers. However, there is still attacks made by evil outsiders against the infinite material plane, which the good outsiders sometimes respond to.
That should also, logically be infinite, since no matter how few demons/devils attack the prime, there would still be an infinite of them.
So the Good outsiders have to have the same numbers to compete. Finally, the TN ones have to be infinite to keep track of all the kind of things that could go wrong in the balance among the infinite sized planes, and fix it, so they have to be infinite as well.
That means that at least 2 versions of Good Outsiders have to be infinite, and most likely more since all ethical parts of Good are generally equal in numbers.
To keep check among the Good guys, the NG ones have to be infinite as well, to make sure things don't end badly. So NG, and the other G are infinite. as are LE and CE, and most likely TN.

>>3216738
>>3216772
This is supposed to answer to the other one...

>>3216738
Hell, one of the reasons it's suggested that redeemed fields are so rare, even beyond fallen angels, is that they simply can't trust anyone. They can't band together, because they have no way or proving that the demon/devil they're working with isn't evil, and with the power of illusions and other such devices, they can't even really trust other creatures either. That and angels and other good outsiders likely aren't as accepting as demons would be to a fallen angel.

>>3216772

Actually, the thing is that most demons are also killing the shit out of other demons. Devils don't raise armies against each other.

>>3216772
Just to answer a small question before it is asked
The Abyss has an infinite amount of layers.
So even if only, say, 0.00000000000001% or even less are populated by demons, that still means there is an infinite of them.

>>3216794
Still an infinite out there, fighting against Good outsiderfs, devils and invading the Prime.
There really isn't any way to get out of this.

This is why infinity is stupid.

>>3216815
As I said before, it is the Abyss which fucks things over, with its infinite number of planes.
Every other one has a set number to them, or it is kept vague.
The Abyss has an infinite numer, leading to this kind of strange things happening...

>>3216855
>planes
Of course I meant to say layers.

>>3216772
>So that means that an infinite amount of demons are fighting in the blood war since a percentage of infinity is still infinite.

A percentage of an infinite number is impossible, really. The demons who fight in the Blood War are a -portion- of the undending horde. And a portion of an infinite number is not, in fact, infinite.

>>3216925
Still, there was a huge amount involved.
With an infinite layers, there should still be an infinite amount of demons.
To matc that kind of manpower, there'd have to be an infinite amount of devils or there wouldn't be anything BUT CE individuals going to the planes, with the amount of succubus and such that could be sent to the Material Plane.
To stop that, the devils still have to have an infinite amount to counter such things, as well as fight across the infinite planes of NE.
Nomatter how you cut it, there WILL be an infininte amount of demons here, as well as devils.
Because they are fighting across an infinite plane, while involving themselves with the infinite material plane.
And the Good Outsiders have to counter this, in some form, or Good simply wouldn't exist since the good guys wouldn't get any Outsider support, either to creategod bloodlines to counter the tiefline bloodlines, or as allies to fight in a war, and the TN ones have to keep things in check between everyone to make sure things just don't go boom.

This is why the Abyss very much fucks things or, snice an infinite amount of it means that, in one way or another, there is infinite demons since they are spawned directly from the layers of the Abyss itself.

>>3216959
Yeah, there are an infinite number of them. I'm not arguing that point. Nonetheless, the given explanation for why they haven't swarmed over everyone and their dog already is because they aren't just evil, they're chaotic evil. Most of them are busy cheerfully murdering one another all day.

Every now and then one of them will pull their thumbs out of their asses long enough to go fuck with an enemy aside from other demons. And with infinite numbers, there are guaranteed to be a huge heap doing so at any given time, some of which can even find their way -out- of the Abyss to do some ass-kicking. Their numbers are, of course, huge, but not so huge that they steamroll over the planes.

Basically, the fact that demons embody chaos as well as evil fucks them over. Now, if the devils, with their lawful cohesion, had infinite numbers... well, I imagine they'd probably be too bogged down with the problem of infinite paperwork to get a lot done, but they'd still get farther than the demons.

Dispelling Evil like the motherfucking FIST OF THE NORTH STAR.

>>3217003
With the numbers we are talking about here (infinity) that'd still mean that somewhere, there would always be demons attacking things other than demons.
Constantly, in a neverending stream, over a d over and over again, since there would always be some demon who has that idea, somewhere, in the infinte Abyss.
There really would be no way to stop this, unless the other Outsiders had something close to those numbers as well.

>>3217024

OR DEVILS ARE JUST THAT HARDCORE.

>>3217024
But I don't believe there are infinite exits from the Abyss. So, like I said, some of the hordes find their way out. The rest try waiting in line, get bored with that, and kill their grandmothers for giving them cheap poison for Christmas.

>>3217024
Now you're just trying to make logic your bitch.

To put your arguement into a different context: Say the universe is infinite as a fact. Just because the universe is infinite doesn't mean that the distance between each object within it is also infinite.

>>3217053
There is one, the first layer.
Though it is also an infinite size, as it is a layer of the Abyss.
And the Abyss tends to open up to demons who want out to kill stuff in the infinite planes and have a great time.

>>3217048
Rage, you are one of the few namefags I can stand, but that just isn't possible.
For every pit fiend the Devils can gather up, there would be so many Balors who decide that they want to kill the fuck out of the devils, that we couldn't really measure it.
And they would appear everywhere on the infinite NE planes, to kill Devils or get to the First Layer of Hell.
There is NO pssible wzay the devils can hold them off giving those circumstances, unless they have someting close to equal numbers.
The scale is just too fucking huge.

>>3217077
Lets go through this again
Each Plane is effectively infinite
Each Layer is the same

Gven those things, the demons could appear pretty much anywhere in a NE plane to attack the devils.
Only way to really counter the insane numbers we are talking about ere, who keep on coming from several different directions, at once, several times over, is to have something close to that number to compete with.

Also, the Planes don't seem to be governed by the same rules as our own universe, unfortunately.
Not saying what you bring up isn't valid, but the layers should be counted in here as well, and the Abyss has an infinite amount of them, from which demons are created.

>>3217085

ALTERNATIVELY, DEVILS TAUGHT THEMSELVES THE SOLAR CHARM THAT NEGATES BONUSES THEIR OPPONENT GAINS FROM SUPERIOR NUMBERS.

BUT THAT'S JUST ME BEING AN EXALTED!LOVER AGAIN.

>>3217077
The demons could also teleport around, and be pretty much anywhere at any moment in time, just to add that to this.
Th Blood War pretty much forces us to assume that, since the demons haven't ground the devils down with so many attacks everywhere at once with so many numbers over so huge distances and across so many planes, they have to have the numbers to keep up if only barely.

>>3217111
I prefer nobilis myself.
Anyway, that'd still allow the demons to attack other targets, while the devils attack them one on one.
Not a good thing unless the numbers are still relatively equal.
So yeah...

Also, I hate my computer, it fucks things over whenever I try to write things.

>>3216629
Awww... if a succubus seduced me, I would tell her she's the most perfect, beautiful thing I've ever seen, and I would just want to cuddle and be near her and be her husbando forever.

And if she moves to kiss or screw me, I tell her that if she's going to kill me, I'd be fine with that because it'd be worth it to be near such perfect beauty, but that might just be the charm talking.

Since she's heard all this before, she'll likely be indifferent though.

That aside, succubi in high society create awesome forms of evil. I keep imagining a succubus vying with other petty, rich women for the affections of powerful dudes hiring thugs to brutalize and rape one of the human women she is competing with, then she kisses the thug to death and announces to the world that the victim chick was a succubus.

This is a great thread.
Should it be saved or something?

>>3217134

I'M NOT SURE YOU UNDERSTAND.

THIS SOLAR CHARM ALLOWS A SOLAR TO TAKE ON AN ARMY OF INFINITE SIZE AND INFINITELY GOOD GEAR, AND THEY'D BE ON EVEN FOOTING.

THEY'D *HAVE* TO FIGHT THE SOLAR.

>>3217506
All Kurumu threads should be saved. Always.

Why are succubi Chaotic Evil? Their modus operandi is MUCH more Lawful Evil than Chaotic Evil, since they're sneaky and conniving little bitches rather than destroyers.

>>3217537

That's why they're lawful evil in 4e.

But really, they're plenty chaotic. They bring about disorder not by LOLBLOODANDGUTSRIPANDTEAR, but by tearing apart the very fabric of society. Their very nature is to undermine bonds of trust and loyalty all in the name of perverse lusts - a succubus won't seduce the king and get him to solidify his grip on power to create a lasting tyranny, she'll seduce him to make him fuck things up in the most gloriously destructive fashion so that the entire kingdom collapses in anarchy and ruin.

>>3217537

Well, that's why they're devils instead of demons in 4e, what with how devils are tricksters and schemers, whereas demons are destroyers and ravagers. On a tangent, Graz'zt is now the progenitor of the devil species that is the succubus, though he ditched them all and moved over to the Abyss, effectively going from devil archduke to demon prince. So those succubi are all left without their badass level 32 solo daddy now, because he's apparently into mariliths and lamias (the beetle swarm shapeshifters) now.

>>3217578

You could make a case for devils being lawful such that they undermine other societies to advance the strict hierarchy of their own though.

There is no infinite. Everything has borders. The idea of infinite is just something we make up to amalgamate huge, meaningless numbers.

>>3217612
You are a goddamn moron, or just a troll.

>>3215898
>>3215993
>>3217606
The Koakuma pics got me thinking what would happen if they took the sheer charisma and manipulativeness of the succubus and converted it all into pure intelligence, wits, and mental might, resulting in a succubus subspecies just as attractive as their original versions, only less interested in the dickings and more interested in being... I dunno, the glasses girls in anime?

>>3217673
This can only end in succubus Zhuge Liang.

>>3217944
A strategist with a very, VERY special way of rallying the troops.

>>3215752
>Iron Chef: Squig Challenge
OK, folks! Internet's over!

>>3217944
>>3218094
Wasn't this in Warriors Orochi? Only it sounded a lot more awesome than it actually was?

>>3217944
kind of want?

>>3218136
Nah, Da Ji was just an evil fox demon bitch.

>>3218136
Fuck you and your wildly uncontrollable moveset.

>>3218281
She's a right badass once you learn to skate with her pretty well.

>>3218208
SYMMETRICAL DOCKING!

>>3218208
I don't get this picture. Da Ji is CE. Nu Wa is LG. Why is Nu Wa the one smiling?

>>3218366

BECAUSE DA JI'S ABOUT TO HAVE THE EVIL FUCKED OUT OF HER.

AND NU WA HAS BIGGER TITS.

>>3218366
>Da Ji is CE.

Da Ji is LE to the max, what with the whole organized army and fealty thing.

>>3218208

sauce?

>>3218366
Good people smile, evil people sneer;
it's how bystanders know which is which.

>>3218379
Da Ji is a capricious fox spirit. Definitely CE. She just leads the army because it is better to be Orochi's servant than Orochi's bitch.

>>3218396
>Da Ji is a capricious fox spirit.

I thought she was some figure from Chinese history who got put into the body of some hot demon lady.

There is no single image in all of the Koei kingdom that is sexier than this one.

Tapping this cock-hungry slut queen has a 50/50 shot of Oda killing your ass for touching his bitch or him just laughing it off and going back to storing his king-sized wang in the ass of his two man-bitches.

>>3218500
>him just laughing it off and going back to storing his king-sized wang in the ass of his two man-bitches.
>man-bitches

I knew Ranmaru was enough of a trap, but Mitsuhide?

>>3218553
All I know is, don't get Mitsuhide's mom killed. He has a very unpleasant way of getting even. Namely, murdering you and your entire family.