With the DnD 3.5 ruleset.

Watch 'A Clock Work Orange'.

excuse my retarded newfagness, but what the FUCK does BBEG mean

Birthright

>>1784862
Big Bad Evil Genestealer

>>1784862

Beer, Bum, Underpants, and Gay.

Big Breasted Eldar Guardian.

Big Brown Erotic Goblin

>>1784862
Big Bad Evil Goy

Bargain Bin Erotic Garb

Big Bottomed Elvish Girls

Bread Baked Excluding Grain

>>1784886
like this?

Simple.
Have it rule over its underlings using fear.
Have it fight in locations that are filled to the fucking brim with a thousand different obstacles, traps and pitfalls - all of which it knows about.
So it can go prancing about, leading PCs to their doom and shooting their heads open.

OP: Sneak attacks don't always mean you have to be hidden or flanking. Sometimes it's just a matter of ensuring that your enemies don't know what you can do. A series of shadowy acts of violence terrorize the royal court- a royal feast is interrupted by blood dripping from a body on the chandelier, nobles perish in their beds while soldiers stand guard at the only entrance, etc. Then reveal that rather than this being the work of an assassin's guild, a lone weak-but-politically powerful NPC is doing it all simply by being scarily good at things like infiltration, deception and placing unexpected sharp objects in your vital organs.

>>1784886
This thread is now about girls with large asses.

>>1784960

>A series of shadowy acts of violence terrorize the royal court- a royal feast is interrupted by blood dripping from a body on the chandelier, nobles perish in their beds while soldiers stand guard at the only entrance, etc.

That sounds like V for Vendetta. A character that's V crossed with the Joker would be a great BBEG, sneaky, devious, charismatic and brutal.

>>1784973
And batshit insane in several different ways.

>>1784973
V is already a pretty big anarch. So what would the reasoning behind the act have to be to make it more joker-like without becoming exactly like Joker?

When you think about it, not much different. One guy is a destructive maniac for the sake of anarchy, one guy is a destructive maniac for the sake of being a destructive maniac.

>>1784964
　_, ,_ ∩
(　ﾟ∀ﾟ)彡　えーりん！えーりん！
　　⊂彡

>>1784926

Needs moar ass.

>>1784964

Now we're talking. Is that really an elf though?

>>1784992
What about Eirin?

>>1784998
　_, ,_ ∩
(　ﾟ∀ﾟ)彡　えーりん！えーりん！
　　⊂彡

>>1784983

Joker still wins over V in my heart, simply for crippling and raping Commissioner Gordan's daughter and then showing him the pictures of what he did whilst beating the ever living shit out of him.

Also, he blew up Robin.

>>1784851
You give him a fuckton of scrolls.

>>1784991

V and the Joker take out their revenge on the society that birthed them through a systematic campaign of terror. V is slightly more humane than the Joker, but that's just because his opponent is a brutal fascist regime rather than a modern liberal democracy. If you want your rogue BBEG to be more sympathetic, have him fight against a tyrant. If you want him to seem a psychopath, have him fight against some goody-two-shoes state.

>>1785018
What if it's a fascist goody-two-shoes dictatorship?

>>1785018
So for a combination, have it dubious as to whether the state is good or bad?

>>1785030

schroedinger's dictatorship

>>1785010
ewwwwwww

Joker is a shitty villain that only works in old comic books.

Someone would have shot him dead by now.

>>1785028
While many people might say "WHAT, NO IMPOSSIBLE" I can actually see in. A city that is more than happy to be controlled by a single, powerful charismatic figure that leads them on to eternal prosperity. Anyone who speaks against him is immediately shunned, mainly because if it wasn't for him, their land would be in a far worse state.

>>1785032

Dom't lie, you would have done it to Batgirl too.

>>1785041
Not quite. A bit more grimdarkness. Like say, the hidden parts of the government. There's a shiny goody-good front that the people root for, but behind it there's quite a lot of nasty stuff going on in the name of upholding order.

>>1785030

Exactly. Have a moral grey area where the rogue BBEG operates in a state the PC's aren't all that familiar with, it might seem a good and just society but in the process of their hunt for the rogue they'll uncover facts that will make them reconsider and maybe even emphatize with the BBEG.

>>1785054
To build on this, I'd just like to express my desire to see a remorseless anti-hero. You always see evil or good, or the typical "I'll kill if I have to but I won't like it" anti-hero. I'd love to see a BBEG who's fighting the power as hard and direct as he can, regardless of what it costs. When the heroes get to the "but how could you kill all those innocent people?" moment, it should go something like:

"This is war. People die in war."

>>1785053
That's just a normal fascist state then.

>>1785010
Wut?
I know he crippled Barbara, but not the rest.

>>1785080

Yep. After he shot Batgirl through the gut and made her a parapalegic, he 'violated' her (that's about all the detail they'd give out) whilst taking photos. Later on he kidnapped the Commissioner in an attempt to prove that anyone can be sent insane if they have a bad enough day.

Didn't work though. But yeah, he blew up Robin ages ago - because the fans wanted him too. They had a phone-in poll to save/kill Robin. Killers won out.

>>1785065

So, a cross between the Joker, V and Rorscharch, then? This guy gets better by the minute.

>>1785092
Well...not quite as sadistically brutal. Only as brutal as he has to be, but shows none of the usual anti-hero-ish remorse or aversion to said brutality.

A guy who sees no problem with ripping a receptionist's fingernails out one by one to get her to tell him where they're taking the fucking crates.

>>1785092
Yep. Kind of like:
Bystander: "Why the fuck did you just burn that keep down?!"
BBEG: "Oh, one of the king's agents was inside it."
Bystander: "What about everyone else?!"
BBEG: "What about 'em?"

>>1785100
Actually, for a good parallel go watch Clooney's performance in The Peacemaker. Like that, but slightly less Good-aligned.

>>1785100
Why not so sadistically brutal?
He could get thrills out of getting closer and closer to bringing down his opponent - despite what he has to do to get closer.

>>1785041
Yeah, err... it's called Exalted.

>>1785107
More likely to fight through several dozen relatively innocent bystanders to kill the fucker personally, but yeah.

>>1785122
Perhaps burning down the keep to smoke him out, then killing him and anyone who is in his way in the mean time?

>>1785128
Damn...wish I'd thought of that now.

>>1785100

Elements from V:

* Dedicated solely to revenge on the government that destroyed him

* Makes sure to let said government know and fear what he does while he does it by leaving clues

* Ruthless and inhuman with no fear of death.

From Rorscharch:

* Does not consider anyone to be innocent bystanders

* Extremely methodical, paranoid and reclusive

From the Joker:

* Enjoys instilling terror in his targets and the general populace

* Challenges investigators to keep up with him and leaves them specific messages

* Has a twisted sense of humor

>>1785145
W-W-WIN

>>1785145
On second thoughts, the three Joker traits are really counterproductive to getting shit done. Drop them.

>>1785145
*steals character*

>>1785145

Now we just need stats for this mofo and maybe a bit of writefaggotry (dare I hope for drawfaggotry as well?) and we're done.

>>1785166
No - don't drop all three.
Instead, get rid of the"Extremely methodical, paranoid and reclusive" bit.

>>1785176
Well enjoy your broken superhero villain.

>>1785180

Well, there's no need for him to be extremely effective since the PC's should have a chance of catching him, too.

>>1785185
I was referring to psychologically. I don't have a problem with him being trackable, logically he might not do the best job covering his tracks. It's just that I was going for less of the usual "slightly mentally unstable" thing and more for a guy who just wants to get the damn job done, whatever it takes.

>>1785180
In that case, make him only enjoy causing terror in his targets.

Perhaps you could keep all of the Rorscharch and remove the "leaves behind clues for investigators" aspect. It's kind of stupid if you're paranoid and reclusive AND leave behind clues for people to follow your trails.

I'm thinking of a destructive vigilante of sorts, doing absolutely anything and everything to get to his targets. Maybe having a little bit of fun in the meantime, cracking a few jokes and bearing a morbid, disturbing sense of humour.

>>1785194
Well, that usually requires a rather unhinged state.
However, I understand what you mean - we could remove the deranged Joker aspect. All it does is as flavour to the concept, we already have the essentials with the other two.

>>1785199
Like a cross between the guy from Shoot 'Em Up and aforementioned Clooney character? Also, little bit of Painkiller for good measure.

RIP AND TEAR

>>1785208

Well he shouldn't be retarded about it, but I still think the kind of mentality needed for this character would be conductive to a twisted, sick sense of humor.

>>1785216
I was thinking more dry and tactless.

>>1785220

Both would work. Remember, he wants his enemies to fear and know that something is after them. He likes to see people shitting bricks over his work.

>>1785224
So he does the deed and then makes a few obligatory lame BBEG-style jokes about it to the heroes?

>>1785229

Try to make them original. The PC's will likely be prepared for lame BBEG-style jokes.

The kind of guy I am imagining would suddenly cause an entire keep full of celebrations to burn into flame and watch the carnage he caused, briefly sparing a moment to make a quick remark about barbeque. Or maybe commenting on how nice a day it is for a swim while turning a galley into match-sticks as it carries his target from one destination to another.

Just quick, small jokes rather than elaborate shit that his life revolves about.

>>1785235
They have to be the usual "oh that's funny but I feel bad for laughing" kind, but with less emphasis on "I'm an evil bastard"?

>>1785235
But yeah.
Originality's always good.

>>1785245
Yeah. Stuff that makes the audience go "dude, that's low."

>>1785245

Kefka?

>>1785262
A little too batshit, but getting there.

Shit, man. How did this concept die?

>>1785366

The same way every other concept dies, Pinky.

Balls. Lots and lots of balls.

But seriously, I like this concept. It appears to be well-thought and somewhat ridiculous. I'd offer up a stat block for this J For Joketta-schach character, but I'm afraid of sullying this with something lame. Like investing in high INT for a character that probably needs rogue levels for the ridiculously high level of skill ranks he'd need to be able to pull off the level of dickery he'll undoubtedly put people through.

>>1785402

Please, do stat this guy. We need to go further with the concept and stats is what's next. Remember, rogue levels as a foundation.

>>1785402
Think of him as like MacGuyver. He's a jack-of-all-trades who improvises an awful lot. Probably pretty high Wisdom scores and lots of insight, so he can make crude explosive devices or other weaponry out of household items.

Also, don't confuse the fact that he doesn't really care for idle banter with an inability to fast-talk his way out of/into/through a situation if the need arises.

>>1785410

A Factotum/Rogue BBEG?

>>1785415
¯\(°_o)/¯ dunno lol

Not familiar enough with D&D system.

>>1785417

>>1785417
Get the fuck back to /b/

>>1785410

Wisdom? For explosives in a presumably 3rd edition D&D setting? I would think that would be alchemy, which is an Int thing.

>>1785417

If you're familiar with some other system, stat him in there. Exalted, maybe?

>>1785418
>>1785419
¯\(°_o)/¯
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¯\(°_o)/¯
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¯\(°_o)/¯
¯\(°_o)/¯
¯\(°_o)/¯
¯\(°_o)/¯
¯\(°_o)/¯
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¯\(°_o)/¯
¯\(°_o)/¯

>>1785426
Oops, back to /b/ with you.

>>1785426

>>1785426
Stop that.

>>1785419
>>1785418
Shut up.

>>1785423
>>1785424
Like I said, unfamiliar. I don't really play any PnP RPGs, I just lurk on /tg/.

If it's going to be a Macguyver type, I suggest maybe the Combat Trapsmith.
Perhaps even the "Avenging Executioner" PrC if we're going with a guy who relies on fear.

>>1785440
>>1785426
>>1785417
Same newfag from /b/

>>1785440

You shouldn't have stopped lurking then. Look at what you've brought to the thread.

Anyway, anyone who actually knows D&D interested? Touhoufag? Anyone?

>>1785445
Stop being a troll.

>>1785452
Proves >>1785445 correct

>>1785451
You could count me.
I consider myself okay at character crafting for someone who doesn't haunt the Theoretical Optimization forums all day long.

>>1785458

I'm looking forward to see your take on the character! And looking forward to seeing >>1785445
and >>1785452
deleting their derailing posts and getting the fuck out of this thread.

I can't help with ruleses and things, but I can give narrative suggestions.

Have him lurking in the shadows all the time, an army of underlings doesn't seem right for someone like that. In fact, Chaotic Evil sounds a bit too much, go Chaotic Neutral. They're uncaring, but they don't want to miamkillburn everything, they just want money. I'd say a -- you did ask in a hypothetical fashion, right? Not having an idea already?

I'd say have him be a master thief, the Lupin to your character's Holmes. Actually, Moriarty might be a better analogy, but he wasn't so much a thief as a mastermind. Have the bad guy be like Lupin, only less gentleman, more thief. Maybe he wont harm innocents, maybe he will. Have him plan to steal something, and somehow get the best of the heroes. Of course, that implies that your heroes can follow clues. If not, then terrorist would also be a good idea, though that puts him back into Chaotic Evil.

That's just my two cents.

>>1785467
GTFO newfag.

>>1785467 Oh god how i get her ei no good with computer
fixed

>>1785467
I apologise for derailing the thread. Not that it matters, but I'm not the one who posted that huge row of emotes.

Also hoping for more character build. Glad to know this whole thing won't just dissolve into nowhere.

Okay, because I'm not entirely familiar with the idea of statting characters or the formatting thereof, I'm just gonna throw shit out there. If you have the whatfor to fix it up and put it in the right shape, you have my eternal gratitude. And/or a more organized head. You fucker.

I'm thinking four levels in rogue, and one in fighter. I like the idea of epic level characters as much as the next guy, but dicking with totalitarian states is probably fuck-all easy for a motivated person. Plus, the one level in fighter allows him to have Unarmed Strike with the Bonus Feat from first fighter level. The Joker was apparently no slouch in unarmed combat, while V was tough as nails.

Also, I may be a faggot because of this, but let's go with 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15 as our stat numbers, just to keep it simple.

Vital skills would have to be Intimidate, Gather Information, Move Silently, Open Lock, Alchemy, aaaand... I like Knowledge, just because I like the idea of a villain that knows his shit.

In before flood of OBJECTIONs.

>>1785481
GTFO

>>1785485
Dunno about Move Silently. Might be useful depending on setting, but this guy strikes me as rather the kind of use words to get him as far as possible and then fight the rest of the way.

>>1785497

Chill. He'll stop apologizing if you stop going apeshit. Check the little boxes and hit delete.

>>1785485

Dude needs Use Magic Device. I can see him using all kinds of magic wands, traps and tools.

>>1785501
Shut the fuck up and get the fuck out attention whore.

>>1785500

Right, I added that based on the hypothetical body-on-the-chandelier idea in >>1784960

Also, >>1785505, I like your idea and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

>>1785514
No, anonymous, you ARE the attention whore.

My advice is:
- Rogue. This is plain obvious.
- Factotum (Dungeonscape). Although I don't have the book, I have heard that it is incredibly for a jack of all trades - you could almost definitely go into anything from there on.
- Combat Trapsmith (Complete Scoundrel): This allows you to pop up traps whenever the fuck you want without having to spend weeks creating beartraps. Could be handy for the character.
- Avenging Executioner (Complete Scoundrel). It's an odd twist on the rogue. Your sneak attacks cause fear effects in the onlookers and you can sneak attack anyone who is subject to a fear effect such as shaken, frightened, panicked, etc.

Pick your poison to make a decent character.

>>1785523
>>1785516
Get the fuck out newfags

>>1785525

Fuck yeah, Avenging Executioner! That's exactly the kind of character that we're going for.

>>1785525
If you take Factotum, you really don't need to give him any levels in Rogue. Bonus: Since you're the DM, you can't horribly destroy your campaign with the class.

>>1785525

The Avenging Executioner is actually reliant on sudden strike, not sneak attack, but sneak attack damage stacks with sudden strike damage anyway.

>>1785535

The factotum only gets broken if you take Able Learner and then Font of Inspiration as every feat, aiming for Factotum 8/Chameleon 10/Human Paragon 2. It's nowhere as bad and actually balanced if you aim for something simple like Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Factotum +5 without taking any Fonts of Inspiration.

>>1785534
Here's the Avenging Executioner for all those who want to see it.
I got it wrong - it's Sudden Strike, not sneak attack - sudden strike is identical to sneak attack and they stack, except that sudden strike only works when enemy is flat footed.

>>1785561

This guy's class abilities would make him have to go up to the target and kill it in front of as many witnesses as possible to cause terror and dread. That would make for an interesting modus operandi.

Also - the Urban Ranger could come in useful.

>>1785525

Er. I have a Player's Handbook on hand and a sketchy understanding of what's in Complete Scoundrel and Dungeonscape. My bookcollectan skills leave much to be desired at this point. However! If someone else feels up to snagging this potentially kick ass character concept and add the appropriate fun stuff to it, it's all yours.

>>1785565
But not really what we're going for with the "Joketta" guy.

>>1785571
GTFO

>>1785575

Yes, mother.

Toodle-pip, guys.

What do you guys think of the Avenging Executioner?
Does it have the right flavour, or is something a bit sour?

>>1785574

Really? I thought that it would be cool for this masked dude to come crashing into a high society ball or whatever, kill some guy with a blade to the heart, spout some deadpan one-liner and then leave as a bunch of wands of Maximized Fireball go off in all directions while the guests are frozen in shock and terror.

>>1785590
I see him bursting through a window and running him through with cold steel - before instantly cutting a bloody path towards his target as everyone runs away in terror, leaving behind trails of urine in their own fear.

>>1785597
Running a man through with cold steel, I mean.

>>1785561

I should point out that with the capstone ability, Bloody Murder, you can technically butcher a rat pulled out from your pocket to make everyone within 30 feet of you frightened (or shaken if they make the save) for 1 round.

>>1785602
Technically, you can.
But that's just silly.

>>1785602

You could even rationalize that by saying that the dude's become so well known and feared that the sight of him slaughtering an animal is enough to send everyone into panic.

>>1785590
I meant he wouldn't be the kind of guy who's so focused on making people scared. He'd want the "bad guys" to be afraid of him, yeah, but everything is second to getting the job done.

Then again, it's not like I'm in charge here or anything. I don't have a copyright on the character.

>>1785583

>>1785613

If he sees the entire realm as his enemies, he'd want everyone to shit their pants in terror at the very mention of his name. Also, it's quite efficient to not have to fight people on the way to your target since everyone runs the hell away as soon as they see you.

>>1785602
"Oh... OH MY GOD, DID YOU SEE WHAT HE DID TO THAT POOR MOUSE? RUN FOR THE HILLS, EVERYONE, RUN FOR THE HILLS!"

>>1785613
He's just a scary motherfucker, that's the thing. The shit's got a reputation for tearing apart anyone and everyone on his way to his target, and that's the reason why everyone pisses their pants.

>>1785620
Maybe. I was of the opinion that he was against the establishment, not just everyone indiscriminately.

>>1785622
There's a character who uses threatening adorable kittens as a superpower.

>>1785629

>There's a character who uses threatening adorable kittens as a superpower.

And then there's the Codpiece.

>>1785629
I thought the same thing.
He sees anyone who gets in his way as an enemy. That's what I thought.

>>1785638
He sees anyone who gets in his way as expendable. If you DELIBERATELY get in his way, you're either an enemy or a fuckass.

So, are we agreed on Avenging Executioner?
If so, we need a base class and maybe an extra PrC. What level are we aiming for?

You're all are now imaging the villain to look like this.

>>1785675
No.

>>1785675
Sorry, what is that?

>>1785675
Nope

>>1785681
Jeremy IRONS.

AKA that guy who dropped off a building.

>>1785669

Rogue for base class. And I say lvl 10-15. Don't want the guy to be too high-end.

>>1785669

Fighter (with Sneak Attack, Thug, and Zhentarim Soldier ACFs and sub levels) 9 would've been a great entry into Avenging Executioner, because that would let him Intimidate as a SWIFT action to make him even more brick-shitting each and every round... but unfortunately, that would require him to be from a very Lawful organization in Faerun. But try to look into the Dreadful Wrath regional feat from the Player's Guide to Faerun, since that makes a character very fear-inducing with just one feat.

>>1785690
Rogue 7-10 / Avenging Executioner 5?

Or some other combo?

>>1785713
>Fighter (with Sneak Attack, Thug, and Zhentarim Soldier ACFs and sub levels)
Wut?

>>1785719

www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter
>Fighter
>Some fighters prefer stealth and cunning over martial skill. This variant can also be combined with the thug variant.
>Gain: Sneak attack (as rogue).
>Lose: Bonus feats.

www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug
>Class Skills: Add the following skills to the fighter's class skill list: Bluff, Gather Information, Knowledge (local), and Sleight of Hand. The thug gains skill points per level equal to 4 + Int modifier (and has this number x4 at 1st level).
>Class Features: The thug has all the standard fighter class features, except as noted below.
>Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Thugs are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor.
>Bonus Feats: A thug doesn't gain the normal fighter bonus feat at 1st level. Also, add Urban Tracking to the list of fighter bonus feats available to the thug.

The Zhentarim Soldier substitution levels are from here (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a). They give you some really nice Intimidate abilities, such as Intimidating as a swift action, and what makes them even better is that they're absolutely free to take.

>>1785755

A Human Rogue 1/Fighter 9 (with the above ACFs and sub levels)/Avenging Executioner 5 with the Dreadful Wrath feat from the Player's Guide to Faerun for more brick-shitting-ness, the Imperious Command feat from Drow of the Underdark (doesn't require you to be a drow) for even more brick-shitting-ness when Intimidating, and the Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny to make purchasing skill ranks easier could be the best non-magical Intimidater and fear-inducer ever. The Zhentarim Soldier sub levels just need to be refluffed with the rationale that he's just one scary motherfucker. He's going to suck against creatures immune to fear and mind-affecting effects though, but that's not going to matter unless the players are somehow specifically immune to those things. Paladins are immune to fear and have an aura of courage though...

>>1785755
>>1785759
... Holy shit.
I think I will use this guy in one of my campaigns now.

>>1785759

OK now I'm afraid. This dude just got optimized.

>>1785759
>>1785755
We seem to have drifted from a no-nonsense morally ambiguous BBEG to a guy who's basically just a fear machine?

>>1785771
This is just statwise, you know.
We still have the background that the guy is a no-nonsense morally ambiguous BBEG willing to kill anyone and everyone in its way.

>>1785773
But I have to admit, now that it's optimized...
Well, it's almost as if it's had its soul sucked out. I've lost the will to work on this now.

>>1785781
How is making him a plain boring Rogue 15 supposed to make him any better again?

>>1785785
It isn't.
But it's no longer a character, it's a block of statistics made for ultimate efficiency in regards to what it is.

>>1785788
We were discussing how to make him a fear machine when the Avenging Executioner got brought up, because we thought it was an awesome concept. Then we actually did get to make him a fear machine even rules-wise. Your problem?

>>1785791
I suppose you're right.
It just feels odd.
You know what? Disregard what I've said, I suck cocks.
Continue discussion.

Right... We've got background.
We've got stats.
So, what does this fucker look like? What are his favoured weapons?

He was not a particularly tall man, nor was he particularly muscular. At first glance, one’s mind might cast an impression of an ordinary man having a rather bad day. His rough, unshaven face formed an expression of grating impatience as dark, sullen eyes cast about the room for something or someone. Thick black hair grown into an uneven mess almost obscured his ears, stopping short halfway down the back of his neck as if it had been simply sliced off. The jacket made telling the build of him difficult at best. It sat loose across his shoulders and hung down nearly to the knee, worn black leather that was losing its smooth finish from years of hardship. If there was a single thing on him to identify, it was hidden. He was clearly a man who did not wish to be named.

“Excuse me, sir,” I heard the doorman saying to the stranger. I’d actually stopped drinking when he entered. The thought took me a bit by surprise; I’m not one to interest myself in the affairs of others, but something about this strange man in the dark clothing just made me worry.

The stranger gave the doorman a look, as if he were thinking of something to say to the seven foot tall brute of a man in his expensive suit. Something offensive, by the look on the stranger’s face.

“Sir, I’m sorry, I can’t let you just walk in like this,” continued the doorman. He was just about to say something else, when the stranger in the leather jacket buried his left fist into the man’s face.

>>1785822
Continue...

To say I was surprised would be wrong. I wasn’t, if for no other reason than the sheer speed with which the stranger had landed such a crushing blow was utterly staggering. One second he had stood there, staring up at a man a good head higher than himself with the look of a haggard bar crawler to him, and the next the doorman was rocking back against the doorframe with a solid thump.

The stranger walked into the club proper seemingly unaffected by this brief altercation, aside from the way he was shaking his hand out and wincing. His eyes scanned the room again from side to side. The crowd didn’t seem to have noticed, they were too involved in their dancing and drinking.

There was a click from somewhere over my left shoulder barely audible past the pounding music. I turned to see two more guards dashing out of a previously locked door in the corner of the room behind the bar. The stranger must have seen them too, for I distinctly heard loud curses coming from his direction. Their suits were not quite as well pressed as the doorman’s had been, nor were they as physically copious in form. No doubt they were armed.

If the thought of armed guards gave the stranger any second thoughts about whatever it was he was planning to do, and I still have yet to discover just what he accomplished that night in the club, he gave no sign of it. He took one look at the two men, both of whom looked at least a good ten years younger than himself, winced again, and started walking quickly towards the bar. Towards the near end of the bar, to be precise, mere feet from myself.

For the record, I suck at writing anything that isn't hot lesbian sex.

>>1785867
Interesting.
Carry on.

“Stop right there!”

“Don’t move!”

First class cliché from the two young toughs in the suits. It was almost enough to make me laugh, if I hadn’t been paralysed already. The stranger was standing right at the end of the bar, leaning against a stool with his arm up on the counter. His back was to them, and I could see the cogs working as a look of determined resentment came over his face.

The guards, if they could be called guards, stood there like the two gormless idiots they really were, unsure of what to do. At this point, the troublemaker was supposed to leave or fight back and be clubbed unconscious. Unfortunately, troublemakers in the past had never floored Reginald, the doorman, in a single hit. They also tended not to look quite like this gentleman who may or may not have just recently been pulled halfway round the city on the end of a rope and then dunked in a vat of beer for the afternoon. They tended to be loud, angry and stupid.

Looking at his face, it was clear this stranger was none of those.

“Look, boys,” he said at last. His voice was gruff and dark just like the rest of him. They couldn’t see the shining thing his fingers handily plucked from a pocket inside of his jacket as he turned towards the two young thugs, but I could. “I’ve had a bad day. I just want to see Mulligan.”

“Mr Mulligan don’t talk to nobody,” answered one of the toughs. The other one glared at him. The two of them together looked like a pair of schoolboys standing before an angry headmaster.

The stranger only nodded. The shiny thing, I could see now, was a lighter. He flicked it open as he brought it up to his face with a wry smile.

“No problem. I’m not here to listen.”

>>1785927
Keep it up.

>>1785942
Much easier said than done.

>>1785950
I know the feeling. Trust me.
But, I'd like to see this writefaggotry finish proper.

>>1785954
I dunno how "finish" it'll get. It was just supposed to be a quick third-person look at our BBEG beating some people up.

>>1785964
Be sure to include the ZOMG BRICK-SHITTING that we've built him up to be.

I suck at fight scenes. I'd suggest someone else take over.

Okay, everything beyond there is utter shit. The end. Have fun with that.

>>1785927

The stranger snaps a quick left jab at one of the thugs, stabbing his fingers into the clueless man's side. With a quick twist of his fingers, the stranger sends his victim falling to the floor holding his stomach.

the other guard brings his club up in response and steps in for a swing.

without a split second of hesitation, the stranger immediately flicks the lighter into the other enforcer's face.

the lighter caught the thug's attention for only a second. But that second was all the stranger needed. He steps into thug's reach, and savagely grabs onto his testicles whilst the guard was distracted by the lighter.

then with a wrench accompanied by a lift, the stranger lifts his foe into the air by his groin and slams his head into the pavement. urine now streams down the side of his pant leg as he convulses helplessly from the shock.

the stranger then catches the lighter before it falls past his waist, and lifts it to his face to light up a smoke.

So what's with the lighter? What setting is this going to work in?

>>1787322
I don't know. the guy before me put a lighter in his hands so I thought I'd run with it.

>>1787340
Fair enough. It definitely worked otherwise, very nice.

Cool, so what the hell are we calling this one?

>>1787571
Oh yeah.
We need a name.

>>1787593
His name is Mike?

>>1785927
Sounds more like a cowboyish anti-hero to me. Maybe that's because I can't get the image of a clown-faced V in an expensive suit out of my head.
But do carry one. I like where this is going.

>>1787571
Stu McGary.

>>1787605
I might have been reading The Dark Tower too much lately.

>>1787613

Lord, forgive me for this, but my mortal frame acts on its own accord...

GARY MOTHERFUCKING OAK.

>>1787637
Huh. Well why the hell not.

>>1787620

let's give him a blatantly made up name, like Max Cougar or Dirk Starr or something.

>>1787677
this reminds me of newfags

dark tower won't get it

Just refer to him as Johnny.

That should do the trick.

>>1785675
Go get desu tentacle raped namefag.

>>1787804

Sweep the Leg

>>1787804

Ooo, I like this idea. Referring to a man with a single, ordinary name always seems to give him a sense of... iconic importance, somehow. Like Jack, from the Fight Club.

>>1785172

Drawfaggot here. This thread is tl;dr to me at this point, but if one of you fatguys are willing to whip up a physical character description and a scene to go with it, I'll put down some work.

>>1787917
lemme try. we'll do it in several different settings for flexibility of use

Fantasy Setting
give him your typical Rogue-like outfits. you know, wrapped head to toe with dark color fabrics, soft shoes for noise dampening.

top it off by giving him a gold mask that covers all of his features. (or you can make it a tengu mask if we're going Weeaboo)

have him stand over several bodies in a small office. Have two of the bodies hanging from the beams of the ceiling with their own sashes or some other makeshit garrot. one of them is going to be someone who looks like he used to be important.

Modern setting
same general concept, but give him a nice suit. very trim cut. give him white gloves to better have the blood on his hands show up. Instead of the normal mask, you can either give him a phantom of the opera mask, or give him clown make up. (nod to the joker)

This time, he's dropped a lighter on the floor, inflaming his insignia he's drawn on the floor with gasoline. (a la the Crow) Whatever insignia that maybe, it circles the body of the man he just killed.

1787917 here

>>1788037
>>1788052

You two are exactly opposite directions, tavarishey. Since '52 is Stylish Motherfucker and '37 is making shit up, I think I'll go with '52. Sorry '37, you are the demons.

>>1788052
Yes. This is the best one.

>>1788090

Whoops. I need to proofread. Talk about mixing shit up.

>>1788090
Fuck yes. Thank you very much for ignoring what I said. In fact, deleting that post I did.

>>1787917
I tried to do a bit of writing earlier, see above. Personally, I'm for the "rough and average" crowd. That was my concept of him in the first place.

People keep trying to pull this guy back towards super-villain cliches. That's not really what I was aiming for. I'd much rather see a non-standard morally ambiguous and ruthless BBEG. The whole motivation behind him was originally just "a guy who's got something to do and does whatever it takes to achieve it, no matter the cost." An anti-hero without the usual remorseful whining and so on. A more truly morally ambiguous anti-hero, so to speak.

>>1788136

So you're saying he SHOULD be a normal Jack whose circumstances (or whatever) force him to abandon all common sense and begin hunting the people of his nightmares ruthlessly ?

>>1788090
37 here. to be fair, 52 CAN work with 37 if you mix it a little bit.

maybe 52 normally is a total professional, but during certain times, he just doesn't get to re-coup. Maybe something in his personal life has caught up iwth his lifestyle and he hasn't been able to get a good shave, a good night's sleep, and get into some clean clothes.

but that would be an exception to how I see the original 37 concept.

>>1788145
Yeah, in a way. Make it so that his goals are obfuscated, so that you honestly can't really tell if he's fighting the good fight or not.

Originally, it was "rogue vs the establishment" wherein some originally nice guy had been slighted harshly by a corrupt government or something and was out to fix something he saw as being wrong, and not afraid to get very dirty along the way.

>>1788148
To be fair, there are already quite a few villains who fit into the concept you described.

'17 here

>>1788148

I'm asking all these questions 'cos this isn't my character. I don't know what the fucker looks like, what he does, where he's been, why he hasn't shaved in two weeks or whose blood it is on his hands.

So keep it coming.

>>1788169

So a V-type person, then ? Only instead of someone stylized (not 'stylish', but 'stylized'), we have someone who is still for all intents and purposes human, except the parts he for whatever reason has had to do without ?

>>1788179
Rough unshaven face, leather jacket that looks like it's been through a small war, generic dark clothes, average height and build, unkempt dark hair and very dark eyes.

To make it a little more clear, since I think people may be misinterpreting my intentions here, let's look at a hypothetical situation. Imagine you've set up a situation for the PCs, on a crusade against the corrupt establishment, wherein there's someone in the way they have to work around. It's the traditional "do our best to convince so-an-so to turn against their evil masters and then watch as said masters kill him/her" scene.

Jack would just shoot the NPC and keep going.

Guys.
One thing is an absolute must with this character.
He must not, not, not dwell on the past.
Sure. Something bad was done to him and he's getting revenge. Thing is though, he doesn't care about what the crime commited was, he only cares about getting back at the system.

>>1788208
I will once again point you to the movie "The Peacemaker." This will give you a very good idea of the kind of character I imagined "Jack" as being, except a little further off the path of Good than even Clooney gets since Jack isn't fighting FOR the establishment with their blessing. Try combining this, Dalton's Bond in License To Kill and Roland Deschain, and you might get something close. More of a machine than a man, or a true monster. He does what he does because it needs doing and feels no remorse, but he doesn't enjoy it.

>>1788208
Underage b&

>>1788217
I'll agree with this, yes. He's not the kind of guy to dwell.

>>1788210
>>1788240
Might be easier if I just say "he's the most pure Chaotic Neutral you'll ever see in your life."

>>1788252
wtf troll

>>1788255

Are we going with the lighter-thing ? Because I can easily work with that. Gimmicks = win.

>>1788177
got no argument from me there. well, it's an idea.

>>1788179
okay, let's fill out some more details for one version of this guy.

why hasn't he shaved in two weeks? he's been obsessively looking for someone. So much so, that he's neglected his normal personal routines. Let's say it's somebody who has sleighted him. Maybe they did so by simply out doing him in the theatrics. (again, a nod to the joker, who apparently can't stand other people being even more of a crazy murderer than him)

He's managed to track his rival to a dirty motel/inn/tavern across the street from him and he's been staking the place out for weeks. He rented a space across the street but has not bothered to bring any of his personal items with him except maybe his tools of executions.

whose blood is on his hands? let's make it a mobster. And, to play on the cliches a bit more, make this one a pampered mobster whose strength lies in his minions and followers. (All of which, our anti-hero here has murdered in cold blood)

>>1788280
Make it a subtle gag if you like. Something akin to the Constantine Giant Lighter thing from the movie. I dunno. I just threw that in as part of his "improvised weapons" thing, going on the previously established idea that the guy can botch shit together like MacGuyver on steroids.

>>1788294

Nicely done, good sir. Work commences.

>>1788280
why the hell not? gimmicks make the win

>>1788294
Again with the cliches and the tropes. I think we're pretty much working on completely different wavelengths here. You seem to be more and more leaning into /co/ territory. Especially with the Joker fixation.

Then again, not like this is my personal character or anything. Just isn't the way I would have liked to see him done.

>>1788318
true, my take on it is very /co/. that might have something to do with the fact that I've been reading some stuff on it earlier.

you're more than welcome to do another take yourself too. I mean, this guy is not mine either, I just run with what I have in my head.

>>1788333
I've already exhausted my writefaggotry reserves for the evening, see >>1785822, >>1785867 and >>1785927 for that.

Let's put it this way then:
Anyone and everyone is this guy's enemy. You actively try to stop him, he puts you on his list.
You actively try to get back at him, he puts you on his list.
Of course, he won't stab someone for giving him a warm beer. However, if someone attacks him - someone sober, at least - he'll kill them, trace who they are connected with and "talk" with these connections.
From here, he'll go on to hunt down whoever set up a bounty or whatever with increased vigour.

>>1788347
well, if it's any consolation, I didn't mean to trample all over your original concept. kinda just ran with it.

>>1788377
Actually...yeah, this works nicely.

>>1788378
I should get used to it. I'm sure one of my character flaws is -10 to Resist Trample checks.

Grim and dark, striking fear into everyone who sees him, looks like he's been through a small war... I can't stop thinking that this character looks like the Saint Of Killers.

The point of this is that we're looking to make an original version of the anti-hero. We've already taken the very basic traits from several anti-heroes and villians, however, we do not need to take the less important traits, such as how the Joker will kill anyone who is a better maniac that he is. Stick with what we've got for stuff that's taken from original characters. Let's not go with the cliches and instead, forge our own character rather than a mish-mash of V and Joker.

Oh wont you take me home tonight?
Oh down beside your red firelight
Oh and you give it all you got

>>1788461
What

We need some drawfags in here.

>>1788497
Uh, there is one, he just needs more details.

>>1788531
See >>1788210

What else do you need?

>>1788531

At the moment, trying to find out how his FACE looks. I want to avoid the whole 'Strongman McConanFace Forgets to Shave', but it's kinda hard.

I'm tempted to make him a little bit chubby, actually.

I think a good rogue BBEG would be as follows: He would use stealth and chaos like in the above posts, but that wouldn't make for a satisfying final battle. So across the kingdom/kingdoms/planes, objects of art and magic items start to go missing. The PCs try and track down the culprit, and it turns out to be the BBEG. It turns out the things he has been stealing are the pieces of a major artifact, staff of 7 parts style (Wand? Rod? I can't remember.) Once he has all of the items, they form a powerful Macguffin that gives him the power to carry out His goals, and to be a challenge in combat. Some of the objects would seem to be mere baubles, some would be items wielded by recently murdered heroes (Or villains. It would be a good opportunity for manipulation.) and some would be held in the most secure of fortress' by those who truly knew their purpose. I'm thinking of the ultimate heist mission in Oblivion here.

Anyway, the rogue gathers all these, boom, instant threat. Perhaps together they hold the power of a Demon lord or somesuch, but the BBEG is so fanatical, he's willing to damn himself for his cause.

>>1788590
Not chubby. Not cut or excessively masculine either. Make him...average. A bit on the malnourished side, perhaps. Sullen faced. Got a look about him like he's been awake for too damn long and doesn't care.

>>1788590
Slim, gaunt. Not chubby. Chubby implies a lifestyle where excess is allowed.
Not his.

Just to make sure... This isn't the dark, brooding anti-hero who sits in the darkest corner of the tavern and barely says a word, yes? I see this one with a jester's mask and expensive (heavy) clothing rather than WAR's witch hunter.

>>1788603
Fuck me in the asshole I can't wait till lunchtime

>>1788637

No, this is the dark, motivated anti-hero who goes out and kills people 'cos he's convinced that that's the best way to deal with those fuckers. he doesn't contemplate his fate, he doesn't mourn the passing of anyone, loved or hated and he most certainly does not find redemption in the end.

most likely, a lethal injection.

>>1788710
Very signed.

I think we're finally seeing things the same way now.

>>1788640
Valgaav, you dipshit, it's from Slayers.

>>1788637
No, this is the guy who goes in, goes up to the bar, pays for enough alcohol to knock out an elephant, downs it, then walks back out again to do a day's work.

Rogues as a class have always struck me as making great lieutenants for the BBEG, but somewhat lacking in motivation for being the BBEG himself. Unlike spell casters, they don't tamper with things beyond the ken of mortal men. They don't scheme on behalf of dark and forgotten gods the way clerics might, and generally lack the brute power necessary to become blood-hungry warlords plotting the downfall of civilization, as a fighter or barbarian might.

That's not to say that a rogue can't be a BBEG, just that they're harder to plausibly cast in the role. A good way of doing a rogue BBEG could be to go for the Moriarty style character, though this requires at least one of your players to take on the Holmes role, or saddle them with a know-it-all DMPC.
A slightly different approach might be to take some levels of Aristocrat as well, and create a character somewhat akin to the Patrician.
Yet another option could be to create a rogue, not so much like the Joker as suggested earlier in the thread, but more like Batman himself, only without the sense of honour and justice. Essentially do what GW did when they created Nighthaunter.

>>1788720

All I do is writes the words and draws the picturessss ... I stopped thinking for myself many, many years ago.

The last time I thought for myself, i won a race and got turned into a baby. Then I was born, and look where I ended up ... so thinking for myself ? Fuck that shit, man. Fuck that shit with a rake.

>>1788727
Read up on Alex Abel in Unknown Armies.

>>1788742
A rake covered in poisonous spanners?

>>1788722
Hahaha, oh wow

So far so good. Only the face, seeing as it's the most important aspect, on top of scene composition. The largest head is the current working 'model'. I tried for Normal Guy who is way over the edge and not coming back any time soon ... ish.

>>1788995
Your eyes and upper lips are hueg. Draw from a picture.

I can just imagine this guy literally slowly walking towards someone who's running for his life, and anyone in his path gets a knife between the eyes, their guts ripped out, or worse, and he never breaks his stride, or looks away. He just eviscerates anyone dumb enough to get between him and his goal, accidentally or not. They were slowing him down, they aren't now. Then the target starts tiring, and he's still sauntering towards him. The charge redoubles his efforts, and as soon as he's going down for the last time, our man literally CHARGES the motherfucker, puts two knives in his kidneys, and rips him in two. He proceeds to straighten his jacket, clean off the knives on the corpse, and walk away whistling.

>>1789047

Fuck, now I'm getting antsy about what it is I'm drawing. Fuuuuck ...

>>1789276
yeah. proportion them better. work from one o' them ovals like this one which I drew in paint, took maybe 4 minutes.

>>1789225
>I can just imagine this guy literally slowly walking towards someone who's running for his life, and anyone in his path gets a knife between the eyes, their guts ripped out, or worse, and he never breaks his stride, or looks away. He just eviscerates anyone dumb enough to get between him and his goal, accidentally or not. They were slowing him down, they aren't now
That's fucking retarded. It would take more time killing them than just to go around them. Get your fucked up "OH WOW SO EDGY IT'S EXTREEEEEME" crap out of a decent idea for a villain.

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMEEEEE

Berserker...

>>1789501

Just some musings.

-I like how the guy remains vulnerable/human, at least in theory; hurts his hand if he punches someone out, feeling tired, etc.
-It seems to me that his occasional use of humor would be to salt the wounds; adding insult to horrible, debilitating injury.
-I like the idea of him having a pragmatic efficiency; he has incredible skills in numerous areas, but takes the easiest approach except when satisfying an inclination towards sadism. He could have come up with a master disguise and fooled the bouncer, could have drawn a hidden blade and bled him dry. . .but he punched him. Simplest way to get in, and he feels no need to show off.
-Frankly, because of the aforementioned pragmatism I think it's best to leave his motivations up to interpretation. It'd probably best to clarify that last one with an analogy, gimme a minute.

Also, have some potential reference pics.

Quick age. . .

I have a few ideas. Small ones which I will likely be trolled for.

Joker is a bit too nuts but he's a nice working villain you can base some shit off oh. I also like the V angle, though I only saw the movie and like a few pages of the comic.


I also thought a bit like Garrett from Thief maybe, and Artemis Enteri (this is where I'm going to get trolled)

For one both of them I'd say seem to fit the Lean, gaunt, and average looking deal. But still quite dangerous.

Hell Garrett was a good enough thief to steal from a god.

Bumping with the fury of... a... furious bumping thing.