Go on.

>Monk/Paladin

Why not a diplomancer? At least you would've had a solid mechanical reason to be able to bullshit your way out of every fight.

As soon as the combat is over (6 goblins, 4 dead from the other members, two at my feet who have calmed emotions) I say prayers for the fallen as my character would.I think that the situation is over, but the gnome rogue in my party decides that his character's family was killed by goblins and that he wants to kill the two goblins I have sitting at my feet. I tell him that I am taking the goblins back to town and that I'm going to try and convince the townsfolk to let the goblins work in the fields to repay them for the attacks on the town and that maybe peace could be achieved. He says his character doesn't care and tells me to move. I tell him that I took a sacred vow and that I wouldn't break it by letting him kill my prisoners. So he decides to attack me.

>>1644913
you did it wrong
you need to be a caster of some sort to take those feats and survive
sleep, hold monster, charm person, etc.

>>1644959
Wait, did the rogue say that his family was killed by goblins BEFORE the encounter, or only when this situation came up?

>>1644993

Probably after, it sounds like that kinda party.

I look at the DM and he just shakes his head and tells us to roll for initiative. I swear I see a slight smile. The gnome wins initiative and tries to shank me with his dagger. He misses due to my godly AC. I respond by dropping him with one blow, all subdual damage. The other two decide that they are going to jump in the fray against me. A few rounds go by and soon I have three unconscious party members and two ingratiated goblins.

>>1644946

ive never heard of a diplomancer. what book? also, know of any other diplomatic/persuasive classes?

>>1645009
Possible thought: And then the rogue will then say, on encountering a band of orcs which the OP is convincing to stop the violence: "I MUST KILL THEM, THEY KILLED MY FAMILY."

Monk/Paladin: Wait...your family was killed by goblins.

Rogue: LOL NO, ORCS KILLED THEM. NOW LET ME AT THEM!

-Rogue is slain by orcs-

Orcs: Oh, I'm sorry, good Monk, we seem to have slain your traveling companion in self defense. Please forgive our actions.

Monk/Paladin: Sure.

>>1645042
*facepalm*
just play a goddamn bard/cleric just like
>>1644990
said

>>1645030
IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE

>>1644993
>>1645009

After, and yes they are that kind of party.

>>1645056
So, did you sell them off to the local labor organization with the goblins, and ride off into the sunset?

>>1645030
I really like you so far.

Wait a sec, if you defend yourself, don't you break the vow of non-violence?

>>1645079
As long as you do non-lethal its ok.

So anyway, with their characters all unconscious they start to BAAAAWWWWWW!!! to the DM about ME being Lawful Stupid and calling me a moralfag much to the amusement of me and the DM. So me and the goblins haul off my party back to town where I convince the townsfolk to let the goblins redeem themselves. I also tell them about the treachery of the party. When the other PC's wake up and find out that they are pariahs in this town for wanting to kill a "Holy man of mercy" like myself, I declined the reward, so no loot for hem either. The gnome was pissed and I could tell he was going to try and get revenge, but the other two were so impressed that they agreed to let me go about my peaceful ways.

>>1645061
that's a good idea. they can repay for their attacks on you with 1 month working the fields, under your supervision of course.

>>1645048

i know how i COULD do it; im just wondering if there are any classes built specifically for it.

>>1645091
Actually yes, not only my supervision but also my assistance. My character is not above working in the mud to help out innocent folk.

>>1645092
There's an Apostle of Peace class in Exalted Deeds. Only one I know of though.

>>1645092
Well, there is this one class. They get all the social skills, have lots of party-boosting abilities, and are specialized in talking their way out of a fight - and thus aren't very good in a battle.

It's called a "Bard". I can't remember what book it's in, but I'll let you know when I find it.

>>1645092

I've never seen a diplomancer used, so I dunno if this is the standard use, but an Evangelist (CDiv) is a preacher who can talk people out of their alignment, among other things.

So anyway I got most of the XP from the adventure, not only for combat, but for roleplaying what my friend said "The only Lawful Good character I've ever seen played Lawful Good"

>>1645121
That's awesome, but I would comment that "smite the wicked" is still Lawful Good. It's just a fairly intolerant Lawful Good. It is, however, Exalted Lawful Good.

>>1645087
Your DM is a cool guy.

>>1645092
Half-elf bard using the substitution levels from Races of Destiny. It basically lets you use a bardic music to calm emotions a target with a DC equal to a diplomacy check. From there you use diplomacy to improve their mood.

>>1645130
Yes, although Lawful Good is actually grayer than what I'm playing, I wanted to play a Paladin character who wasn't LG in name only but really a LN Knight Templar smiting creatures left and right cause they look different.

Also forgot to mention, my inspiration for the character draws heavily from the man in my original post.

>>1644913
Made of fail.

>>1645152
Finish reading the story, dumbass.

Also everyone who is trying to build a better non violent character ITT is missing the point. The rest of my fellow players are all backstaby munchkins and even with a better build would not be able to play this character at all. Also, everything you've said so far has nothing on my constant 20 ft radius of calm emotions.

I think OP is a pretty cool guy; eh doesn't kill goblins and doesn't afraid of anyhting.

>>1645163
Warblade : Constant 20' radius of IRON HEART SURGE.

I thought this was the kind of thing you do to piss off your friends. did they skip out on paying for pizza too many times or something?

>>1645087
What are you going to do when the gnome backstabs you again?

There is no diplomancer class. However there IS the Fred The Diplomat build.
Because according to the rules it only takes a check of 150 to turn an enemy from completely raging hostile to a worshipping fanatic of you.
It only takes a 50 to turn them from hostile to helpful
35 from hostile to friendly
and 25 from hostile to indifferent.

That is ONE check mind you. You can build your character for a FIRST LEVEL +18 to diplomacy
Then as you level and get items to enhance it.

Its considered a min max build because the ultimate result of it is, you can create a foaming at the mouth fanatic willing to die for your every word out of anything with a language. Regardless of their current prejudice or bias against you. Combined with the Awaken spell to give non-language creatures a language, you can make a follower of damn near everything but oozes.

Ultimate peace build might I add.

ROLLPLAY BETTER U FAGET INNA DIAPER

>>1645204

Yeah, but then you'd be the piece of shit who uses spreadsheets to "build" his character.

>>1645204
In the magical and fantasy world of Dungeons and Dragons, there is only LOVE AND PEACE!

>>1645195
No, in fact I tried my hardest o not piss off everyone i.e. It would have been find if the sudden back story of the gnome wasn't going to make me lose class abilities for letting my party kill an enemy that has surrendered.

>>1645203
If he is going to try and backstab me again, the DM will make him change his alignment to CE and then I will Holy Subdual him, and turn him in to the nearest garrison for attempted murder. Hopefully he will roll a new character that isn't a douche.

>>1645235
I've asked around, I don't think you can roll up a new personality in Real Life.

>>1645246

a couple blows to the head might do the trick. your stats could be randomized though.

>>1645204
>>1645230

Hey, remember the alphornmancer?

>>1645224

I don't think it's ever necessary to use spreadsheets when building a character, even a heavily min-maxed one.

>>1645204
I'm pretty sure there's an Awaken Ooze spell somewhere. Where else do Gelatinous Cube Monks come from?

>>1645258
Bill Cosby

>>1644913
Counts as Dhalsim?

OP, what kind of build are you doing with a Paladin and Monk? Seems like a strange combo to me. Is there a prestige class you are trying to get into?

>>1645258
The planes of Good, Evil, Law, and/or Chaos. Because a Fiendish ooze automatically has a minimum of 3 int.

>>1645268
I'm playing him more like a Goku/Ghandi

>>1645271
I'm basically just a straight paladin, with a 1 level dip in monk for the unarmed strike damage, and wisdom to ac. I got the feat Ascetic Knight from Complete Adventurer so that my paladin levels keep raising my unarmed strike damage.

>>1645224
Ummm you've obviously never played with a powergamer.
My friend spends a lot of time on the Min Max boards looking for builds.
They really don't require anything beyond a normal character sheet.

>>1645285
>>1645224
OP here, let's be peaceful now in this thread of Love and Peace.

>>1644913
Not enough GRIM AND DARK.

0/10

Good job OP, the gnome deserved it. Does he know that if you did what he wanted that your character would lose out on his bonuses from Vow of Peace and that he was going to screw your character over? If not lay it down for him, if so, then he is a douche and you should stop playing with him.

>>1645299
LOVE AND PEACE

>>1645324
HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
IT BURNS, IT BURNS!

Really cool story OP. Your party got what they deserved. I really hope that the next time the gnome pulls that shit that it fucks his character in the ass.

>>1645271
I've often thought that the Monk/Paladin combination reminded me of some kind of superhero... get yourself a mask and learn the criminal element some good ol' fashion benevolence! Maybe the monk is hanging around these guys to get inside the criminal psyche (a la Batman).
Yeah, my post is pretty fail... but I'm posting it anyways. Somebody's gotta keep it mediocre.

>>1645324
Does it stop us from getting shit done?

>>1645327
Mental image of all the races in 40k reeling in pain at seeing the words 'LOVE AND PEACE'.

Not including the guys in that '40k love and peace' drawing.

>>1645324
LOVE AND PEACE!
LOVE AND PEACE!!!
LOVE AND PEACE!!!!!

>>1645350
Hell no.

Lol, I'm imagining the little gnome rushing at Ghandi and then Ghandi roundhouse kicking the gnome right in the head, punting him at least 20 feet. Then going back to his peaceful pose.

>>1645354
AND BLOWJOBS!!!

>>1645372
"Boot to the head." THWAP!

>>1645361
Come /tg/, let us go into this mysterious land of love and peace!

you have taken up a difficult path my friend

>>1645372
All of a sudden, URGE TO DRAW THAT SCENE!

OP here, the DM and I are old friends and are older and somewhat(barely) more mature than the other players. I've decided that like my character I'm going to lead by example and show that you can have an interesting character while still being a true hero. Like I said everyone usually wants to be the ineffectual loner guy.

>>1645385
Who is that?

sounds like the gnome is going to turn himself into Jagi, with all his burning hate and dickery

see if your DM can arrange his head being mutilated and masked

Good job OP on reading BoED and playing Lawful Good instead of Lawful Stupid. Also what level were you guys?

>>1645399

Toki from Fist of the North Star, Kenshiro's older brother in Hokuto Shinken martial arts.

He is regarded as potentially the strongest, but his vow of nonviolence keeps him from harboring ambitions of succession.

Toki spends his time caring for people and doing his best to maintain peace in a world ruled by violence.

>>1645390
By the way, your character is a Monk 1/Paladin all-the-way character? What armor is he wearing?

Because unless if I'm mistaken, you don't get the wisdom bonus to AC when wearing heavy armor.

>>1645401
Or better yet, a little Joker gnome...
I'm sorry for bringing up the superhero thing again, but I get creeped out when I imagine a little Joker mini-me...

You should make the goblins your disciples, and they can help you spread LOVE AND PEACE throughout the world.

I figure your DM may eventually pull the "this monster you spared later went and killed more people/became BBEG"

>>1645418
VOW OF POVERTY

>>1645418
No armor, I also have Vow of Poverty remember? I cant have anything except a quarterstaff, some clothes, and a days worth of food.

>>1645399

>>1645433
>>1645435
D'oh! Mein bad.

>>1645418

Truth be told, monk/paladin is kinda ass due to there being no synergy whatsoever, unless you take the Serenity feat from the Dragon Magazine Compendium. Then you get your Wisdom bonus to both your AC and all of your saves, significantly reducing the MAD and making the build much more decent.

>>1645432
Actually because I have active dialog with my DM he is actually probably going to pull a bad guy who will threaten to kill all of the people that I love unless I kill him.

>>1645443

What does MAD mean?

>>1645443

doesnt smite work with flurry to do a shitload of damage?

>>1645443
Well I'm not really looking for synergy, it was more along the lines of I want a paladin who uses fists. Never heard of serenity, but I do have insightful strike which is the weapon finese for wisdom. Also, it is a lot better than you think when you have full monk damage progression and almost full BAB.

>>1645449
Multiple Attribute Dependency. AKA, a monk/paladin build tends to require strong scores all around.

>>1645444
how about a villain that's primary motivation is to get you to break your vow of non-violence and leave you wallowing in self pity for a few years.

>>1645443
Also, Tohoufag, didn't you complain about DnD not letting you make a nonviolent character?

>>1645437
OP needs to learn some ORGASM DEATH WAVE PUNCH.

>>1645458
I suppose a second level of Monk for evasion and the feats hasn't seemed worth it yet?

>>1645463
Only Wisdom and Charisma for me are uber high. Dex is somewhat high. Also VoP is going to give me a whole bunch of stat boosts.

>>1645463
Ah thanks.

>>1645475
Yeah I wanted to get to spell casting already.

>>1645444Actually because I have active dialog with my DM he is actually probably going to pull a bad guy who will threaten to kill all of the people that I love unless I kill him.


reforming such a person would be interesting.

>>1645444
This...might be interesting to watch. Tell us how it will end when your DM pulls it off.

>>1645496
Yeah the way I hope it plays out is either
A) He abandons his evilways after seeing my infinite mercy and how I can still triumph without resorting to killing and hatred.

B) The bad guy ends up bringing about his own downfall trying to thwart me and my pure heart. I won't feel emo about it I'll just pray that he is reincarnated as a better person.

>>1645513

forced to kill

turns evil

Looks like you are on your way to sainthood OP, would your DM allow it?

Is there a monk/paladin prestige class anyone?

>>1645520
I still say the best route is the Legato Bluesummers path, where the enemy is out to get you for the sole fact of breaking you, and in the end the choice is either to sit back and watch others die, or to end his life.

Some good reasons for this are him being Lawful Evil, you foiling his plans, him being someone you converted who's life turned out worse after you came through

You have the goblins repent, only they get their asses beat by the townsfolk, and eventually kill in self defense and warrants are put out on them. The last one left vows to get you to finish what you should have started. Though not a Goblin. Maybe a reformed Ilithid or something cooler than a goblin.

I had a very similar character once. The difference being that he was only a Monk, not a Paladin, and he was based around Judo and Jujitsu. He would preach non-violence and charity, and when forced into a fight, would grapple and incapacitate the attacker by putting them in funny holds until they passed out (that is to say, grappling to deal unarmed nonlethal damage and saying "COUNTS AS"). I didn't take Vow of Peace because of the peace aura that would just piss off the other players and DM, but I acted according to it anyways.

I got to play him for all of one session, though. The group just never met up again. It was an internet game.

>>1645550
I don't know, maybe after a party wipe when the other players can roll new characters with a +2 ECL.

>>1645531
Bad End

>>1645559
I haven't seen one, but if anyone has any advice on whether I should get my special mount next level or trade it out with an alternative class feature it would be appreciated.

>>1645564
>...peace aura that would just piss off the other players and DM...

That's not how Peace Auras work lol

>>1645571
Does Vow of Poverty let you have a mount? If so, can your mount take Vow of Poverty as well?

>>1645204
actually, I found a class called diplomancer in a third party splatbook.

>>1645584
>third party
GTFO

ITT: Everyone gives praise to OP's Mary Sue

>>1645606

>Mary Sue

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

>>1645606
Your opinion is shit because you don't know what a Mary Sue is.

>>1645606
-10/10
I'm starting to hate people who call things Mary Sue more than Mary Sues themselves.

>>1645614
>>1645616
OP here, don't feed the trolls, remember LOVE AND PEACE!!!

>>1645606
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
He said the MAGIC WORD!!!

>>1645606
forgot my sage

MARY SUES! MARY SUES! MARY SUES!

>>1645635
Oh god, but I lol'd and had drag my roommate over to see.

>>1645642
>>1645650
AGE MUTHAFUCKAS!!!

Can we archive this thread?

>>1645582
I don't think VoP has anything to do with the Paladin's Mount, as it's considered a magic creature and levels with the Paladin (and in some ways is similar to a familiar or animal companion). Also, they don't really get a chance to purchase feats, so that's out of the question.

>>1645658
If it must be done, add some more epic.
EP-IC.

>>1645658
Will-fucking-do.

>>1645664
The Mount doesn't count against VoP because it's a Paladin class feature. That said, yes it can get feats as it has an Int score, just like an animal companion. I'm pretty sure it doesn't meet the prereqs for Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty, though. I'd have to check that. Also, no sane DM would allow it.

>>1645664
Kinda goes against the whole image of the poor wandering holy man riding on a magical white stallion though right?

>>1645467

>Also, Tohoufag, didn't you complain about DnD not letting you make a nonviolent character?

Since when the fuck did I ever complain about D&D not letting me play a nonviolent character? Hell, I made the alphornmancer build, didn't I?

>>1645679
not if it's a magical stallion that he's using to carry bags of grain and passengers between poor villages.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1644913/

>>1645683
Huh, someone was saying something about DnD not letting them make a pacifist character. I just assumed it was you because of what I can only assume was a Tohou picture.

>>1645685
Can someone with VoP carry goods to give away without breaking his vow?

It can be a dirtied up beast that walks along side him. He doesn't have to ride the thing.

OP here, If I do decide to get a mount it's not going to be a warhorse but an old broken run down mule that I walk with.

>>1645694
I'm unfamiliar with DnD, but it's not really Poverty just because something is in your possession. If you're transporting people and goods you're still poor.

>>1645693

Not every anime-ish pic posted here is Touhou.

>>1645635
/r/ing pic of pee wee doing the LOVE AND PEACE pose.

>>1645702
I would rather have the charging smite alternate class feature. +2 damage/Level if you charge and smite.

>>1645710
Yeah, but it was Ciro or something. One of the things I'm fairly sure is Tohou.

Oh well, tell me more about this Alphornmancer.

>>1645679
Wasn't there somewhere that gave the Paladin options for their mount? How about a fuckin' unicorn?
>>1645676
Looking at the Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty feats, it CAN BE DONE! But then you have to find a DM crazy enough...

>>1645726

I vaguely recall someone posting a thread complaining about D&D with a CLANNAD pic as the OP pic, but I skimmed over it. Perhaps that was the thread you were referring to? Anyway, the alphornmancer was archived on Lord Licorice's site. Basically, it revolved around the alphorn instrument from Song and Silence, which makes your music extend to a 1d10 miles radius. Combined with the rules in the SRD for substituting Diplomacy checks with Perform checks, you've got yourself a way of fanaticizing everyone in a 1d10 mile radius, including deaf people, plants, and undead with the right feats.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/926361

OP here, in order to poke fun at the rest of the party as well my characters appearance was:
"An average looking man of indeterminate age (could be 20-40), with light brown skin, brown eyes, and shaggy brown hair. He wears a simple brown tunic and caries a wooden walking stick. His face shows some wrinkles around his eyes from smiling"

Everyone else has unusual hair, eyes, etc.

>>1645676
Just checked it. Sacred Vow has no prereqs, but it is an Exalted feat. That means exalted good, which is entirely left in the DM's hands. Since the Paladin's special mount isn't even Good, it can't be exalted good.

>>1645729
Well, yes. So you need a crazy DM and an exalted good alternative mount that can speak, write, or in other ways communicate articulately (and thus make a Sacred Vow).

>>1645755
EVEN IF IT"S A UNICORM???

>>1645758
So a unicorn retarded enough to slip under the radar as a special mount, but with enough faculties to take the Vows.

>>1645719
This is good if you want to increase your combat effectiveness OP

>>1645702
This is good if you want to make your character richer(in character not in money) and I love the image of you walking down the dirt road, feet blistered, and when someone asks why you don't just ride your mule go:
"Oh, well Clancy here is my friend not a slave" and keep walking. Ask for RP XP from DM.

>>1645774
Veganfag

>>1645774
Exercise is good for the health too. Ask for bonus stats as well. Lulz will be had.

>>1645030
>>1645087

Fucking awesome. I congratulate you on you victory.

>>1645793
>YOU MUST EAT EVERY SINGLE ANIMAL EVER RAAAAAAAAAAAAAWR

>>1645769
Well, yeah. Though I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere some option for using Leadership to get a Magical Beast cohort as your special mount. I'll see if I can find it.

OP here, my Character IS a vegetarian. I told the DM that it probably wouldn't come up since meat was a rarity anyway in a medievalesque setting.

>>1645851
Leadership requires a Stronghold, VoP definitely means you can't own a stronghold, so that is out.

>>1645859
It requires no such thing. You just get a bonus to it if you have a stronghold.

>>1645856
Except when you're rich adventurers, so the rest of the party is eating meat. either way it doesn't matter, as by level 4 or something with Vow of Poverty you no longer have to eat at all.

>>1645813
If I was his DM and he was going to make his special mount a pack mule I would totally throw him a stat increase.

>>1645874
>by level 4 or something with Vow of Poverty you no longer have to eat at all.

Oh yeah, I should still cary 1 days worth of food anyway to give to the needy when I see them.

>>1645875
I would give him a movement speed increase since he wont be riding it.

OP is doing it wrong, and needs to reread the Vow of Peace. ProTip: your party should have gotten debuffed.

>>1645914
No, he didn't get an oath from them so no debuff.

>>1645937
iirc that's assumed if they're traveling together. The Book of Exceedingly Stupid Feats was never a strong point for me, mind you.

>>1645945
The way I read it, that oath is made only if the person has the characters take an oath. If they refuse, then they won't suffer a debuff. It seems that the gnome was going to attack before he had to swear an oath.

In after more shitty monk builds

This whole thread is stupid. Except the people calling the op's character stupid. They're correct. Because it is stupid.

>This whole thread is genius. Except the people calling the op's character stupid. They're wrong. Because it is genius.

>>1647431
What's the matter, the thought of -not- killing things too DEEP for you?

>>1647459
Clearly, the man whom you speak of is a hack and slash OLOLOL I GET XP FROM KILLZ ONLY OLOLOLOL retard.

Random thought: Gandhi apparently despised niggers from his years as a lawyer in South Africa.

Also, shame that on D&D you can't kill someone with subdual damage if you don't try. Would be interesting if you tried to knock someone out but accidentally killed him, since realistically it's very unlikely you won't cause damage when beating someone unconscious.(In before D&D is not realistic)

>>1647359

>>BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW ROLE PLAYING! MARY SUE MARY SUE!!!!!!!

>>1645136
he allows original characters and dosen't afraid of anything.

>>1648112
I don't think mary sue means what you think it does.

>>1647613
>Random thought: Gandhi apparently despised niggers from his years as a lawyer in South Africa.

He also enjoyed sleeping naked with underage girls. He always said he was just a man not a saint.

>>1648112
You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

How is a pious, spiritually devout man who doesn't participate in violence a Mary Sue?

>>1648148
He is loved by all and succeeds in turning his worst enemies into his friends with the power of LOOOOOOVE.

>>1648144

Sounds like a *Channer alright. Racist and pedo.

>>1648160
You know... shut up

where's that Mary Sue check list someone posted the other day?
Then we can see what the OP's Mary Sue rating is once and for all

>>1648144
Psh! Who doesn't? Just admit it.

>>1648148

I don't think he was calling anyone a Mary Sue.

I think he was taunting that Anon about his statement on "shitty monk builds," implying that said Anon would be the type himself to play Mary Sue monks instead of a Monk with a believable/not-overpowering backstory like OP.

On the other hand, if he WAS calling the OP a Mary Sue, he might have been referring to the fact that he was able to easily defeat all his comrades, and in this case Anon is forgetting that

a) overpowered and Mary Sue are two different things
b) maybe the other players just suck

But i think he meant the former. At least that's what i got from it, but hey...this is 4chan, where trolls troll trolls. Trolling trolls.

>Vow of Poverty,Vow of Non Violence, and Vow of Peace

You are a faggot for using the book of exalted deeds.
It is retarded and breaks the game. Not to mention 3.0 rather than 3.5.

>>1648184
I think he was implying that roleplaying itself is making a Mary Sue, and that anything other than hackanslashan is Mary Sue faggotry.

Either way it's a total disregard for the fact that the OPs character is a paragon among men.

>>1647613
random thought
I despise niggers because I've met more than one over the years!

OP Here, everyone seems to keep calling my character a shitty monk build. I find that hardly inappropriate considering I only took a 1 level dip in monk for unarmed strike damage and wis to ac only. My character is a paladin. Also he is not overpowered, just the only one with a decent attack bonus and super high AC.

>>1648173
http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

Jesus, the sage-fags are losing it.

>>1645121
In other words, "DM was a HUGE fag."

I hope he at least played the goblins so they killed some villagers and ran off at the first opportunity.

If he didn't, then he just broke the whole fucking game world and alignment system.

>>1648309
Your Always Chaotic Evil system is flawed. Please leave.

If you've got a guy who's calming emotions and diplomacy has convinced a band of Goblins to repent, they are no longer Chaotic Evil.

If a bandit can be reformed, so can a goblin. Always Chaotic Evil is Always Flawed.

>>1648218
That won't keep fags from being fags. Anyway, I like your character, OP.

>>1648333
Goblins are Usually Neutral Evil.

>>1648187
Book of Vile Darkness is 3.0 you stupid faggot. And 3.0 books can still be crossed easily into 3.5.

so you got a horse too

>>1648333
You are a huge fag. Please leave.

>If a bandit can be reformed, so can a goblin. Always Chaotic Evil is Always Flawed.

The idea that born-evil monsters are permanently and irredeemably evil is a foundation of the D&D world design.

It's made that way so it's convenient to have wild, violent adventures.

If it's a world where you can chase down a bunch of murderous goblins, ruthlessly kill most of them, and then just TALK the survivors into BEING NICE FOREVER...

I mean, that doesn't even work with humans in the real world, let alone with monsters that are violently evil BY DESIGN in a simplistic fantasy setting.

It breaks D&D. You're not playing D&D anymore if you can just /talk/ monsters out of an evil alignment. A good-aligned character can't hunt evil-aligned things down with a clean conscience anymore, and you can't have any fucking fun.

This is a case of a DM being amused by a player's fun-ruining dickheadedness and deciding to rewrite the universe on the spot to make the dickhead right in retrospect.

>>1648427
>I don't RP in my gaems! HAKNSLASH HAKNSLASH!

>>1648427
I think that bitchy diplomacy players seem to think that you can change the mind of an inhuman monster by having a conversation with it. trolls, for instance, enjoy chasing humans down, hitting them to death, listening to them die, laughing, then eating them. For fun.

You're not going to be able to get it to see the "the light"

>>1648448
Bitchy munchkin wants his mary sue to be the speaker of the ages

>The idea that born-evil monsters are permanently and irredeemably evil is a foundation of the D&D world design.

>It's made that way so it's convenient to have wild, violent adventures.
And that's why your argument is invalid.

Hey OP, you got the right idea for rping. It's a hard concept and you are going to run into some problems though. Good luck

>>1648472
Play a different game than D&D. D&D is made for FIGHTAN and WINNAN.

>>1644913
>...a rogue, a fighter rogue, and a ninja. They all wanted to roleplay the dark loner...
>...but the gnome rogue in my party decides that his character's family was killed by goblins...
>...his character doesn't care and tells me to move...
>...he decides to attack me.
So, you're saying a gnome rogue attacked a (human?) paladin/monk up front and with witnesses? *sigh*

As for the "monk" label your character keeps getting, perhaps your choice of visual is suspect.

>>1648459
Not OP you dumbass. If you've read the fucking thread you'd know the OP's character isn't a fucking Mary Sue. You don't even know what a Mary Sue is if you keep throwing that word around.

>>1648427
>>WAAAAAAH YOU'RE PLAYING WRONG WAAAAAAH
Its a role playing game, he can do what he wants. Go play halo.

>>1648448
Yes, D&D was designed as a hack-and-slash dungeon crawl. There's a lot of stuff to kill, and usually people don't have all day to role-play each encounter with every goblin and chunk of green slime.

If you want to RP complex interpersonal and emotional interaction with characters of dubious morality from races normally hostile to humankind, then don't play standard D&D complete with the rigid, simplistic "you know whether to kill it" alignment system.

>>1648493
If you view an RPG campaign as a work of fiction, the PCs are commonly - even standardly - mary sues.

self-insertion - check
2 cool 4 school angsty background - check
overly perfect - check
dominates plot to an unreasonable extent - check

How did this start out as a simple story and end up a Mary Sue/D&D BAAAAAWWWWWfest?

>>1648455
Your point ceased relevance since the moment players began to play monster races.

>>1648472
Okay... my argument is, "The universe is designed such that X, therefore X in that universe."

Your argument is, "While not disputing that the universe is designed such that X, I find X distasteful due to my hippy-dippy philosophy of free love and never fighting anyone who hasn't killed you yet, therefore not X in any universe."

>>1648509
>2 cool 4 school angsty background - check
overly perfect - check
dominates plot to an unreasonable extent - check

Holy shit is every main character in every story ever!

>>1648509
>dominates plot to an unreasonable extent - check

Being the main character of the story, I think dominating the plot would be reasonable. Or do you think that stories doesn't need characters?

This is a troll. Either that, or you're doing it wrong. Vow of Peace ensures that you cannot harm anyone whatsoever, ever. If anything you do means any lasting harm, then you lose the Vow of Peace and all its benefits forever.

Lasting harm includes subdued damage, by the way.

>>1648459
Srsly, diplomacy munchkins are the worst and lowest breed.

The sad thing is that it's an attitude people bring from and apply to real life: "Diplomacy sometimes works, and it is skill dependent, therefore with sufficient skill in diplomacy, it can work in any case, and since when successful it brings about the best possible outcome, therefore diplomacy should be used in all cases, without exception."

Meanwhile, not only does diplomacy usually fail, but those who insist on attempting it sincerely in all cases often find that the opposite side participates in bad faith for the sake of stalling for time to prepare an advantage in violent struggle.

>>1648525
>Your argument (as perceived through my point of view) is
fix'd for LOVE AND PEACE

>>1648525
Actually, my argument is that "X is a horrible aspect of the universe only created for hackanslashan players who don't give two fucks about depth"

Please, dear sir, explain to me how a group that MUST BE Chaotic Evil, Always, is able to form a society? By virtue of being Chaotic they would be unable to form a cohesive society, and by virtue of being Evil, they could never get along because they'd spend time killing each other.

The Always Chaotic Evil thing is one of the dumbest aspects ever. No group could exist if it was Always Evil. And besides, Evil is an abstract concept. To the Goblins do you really think it's being Evil? I'd say they wouldn't think themselves evil. When they wake up do they say "Hmm, lets be evil today"? No, I think they say "Hmm, how can I not die in this horrible, bloodthirsty world were everyone wants to kill me?"

Having a natural predisposition to violence doesn't make you evil.

>>1648538
>>1648551
failfags need to learn that some checklists need to be completed in full.

A Mary Sue is a self-insertion fanfic character (sometimes generalized outside of fanfic) which is *overly* perfect, with an *overly* angsty background, who *unreasonably* dominates the story (i.e. not justified from the circumstances of the story, but in a forced, artificial sort of way).

The adverbs matter. If these traits aren't excessive, then it's not a Mary Sue.

Yes, the definition includes subjective criteria. People can and will disagree on who is and isn't a Mary Sue, without either being wrong.

As usual a thread about workable pacifism in D&D once again devolves into a discussion about relative alignment.

>>1648568
Well no, that's not what you were saying. I made a statement about D&D, and you said, "That's wrong!"

If you want to say, "I don't like that aspect of D&D." then say that, failfag.

You have a right to your tastes. You have every right to pick and choose whatever aspects you like from D&D to use in your game, even if you change enough fundamental aspects that you're not playing D&D anymore.

Me, I likes me some hack-and-slash. I like a bit of RP to support the hack-and-slash, but an encounter with evil-by-definition monsters is a combat encounter, not an RP encounter.

If I want moral ambiguity and complex social situations involving people I don't like, I'll go out and interact in the real world.

>>1648568
Thats a dumb argument. Nazis didn't think that they were evil, neither do serial killers. That doesn't make them not evil

Every characterer ever posted on this board is a Mary Sue.
Well, that what some people think.

>>1648568
Would it make you feel better if they made them clearly names, with irritating commercial-style misspellings and capital letters?

Evul: faction dedicated to annihilation of Gud beings - may be friendly or hostile to Evul or Nootral beings according to circumstances and whims

Gud: faction dedicated to aid of Gud and Nootral beings and annihilation of Evul beings

Nootral: faction not aligned with Gud or Evul - may be friendly or hostile to other Gud, Evul, or Nootral beings according to circumstances and whims

>>1648555
You need to learn2read because in Vow of Peace it Explicitly states that subdual damage is okay.
>This is a troll
Oh that explains it.

OP here, my character will still be able to do fightan an lootin like normal, just that I subdue my opponents and give my share of the treasure away. Also, I will pretty much wreck Undead, Constructs, and other Non-Inteligent lifeforms.

>>1648617
>Well no, that's not what you were saying. I made a statement about D&D, and you said, "That's wrong!"
No, I didn't say it was wrong, I said it was flawed.

>>1648700
I never said I didn't like the Alignment thing either. I love the Alignment system. I said I hate the quantifier "Always Chaotic Evil"

An entire race can't have a fixed alignment. It's narrow minded. And besides, when Drizz't was introduced that got thrown out the window anyway.

And before anyone asks, I don't mind the idea of alignment locked classes. Alignment is just a tag. You can have a Lawful Good Big Bad.

One idiot in our group made an Exalted character with an aura (or something) that made us take penalties if we killed surrendering creatures. After realizing how useless he was, I engineered a situation where that character had to face down the miniboss (orcish barbarian, fwiw) without any support. He died. We cheered.

>>1648551
The very idea of a main character in a story is absurd and one that should be completely removed from fictional writing. It is a poor method of storytelling, as you can always tell who will win as well as emphasising too much on that character.

>>1649100
>STORY'S DON'T NEED PROTAGONISTS HURRR!!!

>>1649125
The only way to mitigate that has been getting a fuckload of characters and then only describe the coll and gritty things they do separately.

In that case, everyone's a protagonist as they appear. It handles a little awkwardly.

>>1649100
You sir, are an idiot.

>>1649061
Oh, you didn't say it was wrong?

>>1648472
>your argument is invalid.
Oh, wait, you did.

Stuff it up your ass.