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    File :1208834198.jpg-(59 KB, 941x455, 929p_4c_ZoomB.jpg)
    59 KB LG character ideas that don't suck Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:16 No.1578543  
    Hey /tg/,

    I've been trying to get into D&D lately. I played a bit in school, still like computer RPGs, and lurk here, so I figured I might as well go all the way and see just how low I can sink.

    Problem is, my local D&D group insists on playing Lawful Good and ONLY lawful good characters. They cover all the bases - your jackass paladin, your rebellious normally-evil-race (not a drow, thank God), etc etc. Stereotypical shit, the lot of them, which leaves me really really hopeful as even my worst idea is likely to be as good as any of theirs.

    Yet Lawful Good is the only alignment that I cannot possibly imagine being fun. Almost every character type I can think of is so played-out and overdone that any creative marrow has been sucked dry long ago.

    ITT: Your ideas, for me to mooch on.

    Actually, there is one idea I had which I wouldn't mind playing, but I have no idea if it's even feasible enough to bring up to the DM.

    Start with a tribe of clerics. Nearly every single member of the tribe tries their damndest to be able to cast level 7 spells, because it's their sworn and solemn duty to resurrect as many dead ancestors as possible. To do so is a mark of respect for the person raised and a great honor for themselves, and so their own future position in the queue gets bumped up. To this end, each of them takes with them a bag enchanted with gentle repose (I think) carrying bits and pieces of the bodies of their tribe. Every gold piece is hoarded toward the cost of the resurrection spells, which naturally have to be cast asap to beat all the other clerics in the tribe to the most esteemed corpses.

    I don't know if this is even possible, or more importantly if it'll fly with the DM, but gentlemen and other gentlemen wearing ladies' underwear: we have a lawful good necromancer.
    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:35 No.1578661
    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:36 No.1578668

    oops not lawful

    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:39 No.1578684
    Fuck that.

    Go Neutral Evil. You believe in the "greater good" with a passion that makes paladins shy away, but unlike them, you have no qualms in making the ends justify the means. Just make sure you don't coerce information from your enemies while your "buddies" are around and you should be good.

    I recommend some kind of caster, specifically one that doesn't leave physical wounds.
    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:41 No.1578698
    Alignment is suppose to make your chracter more interesting, not to be a handicap.

    If you need to be lawful, be lawful neutral, which is the alignment 90% of the world has by default. "His shit is fucking up my idea of society, so I must kill him" that ideology will make you fit into anything and any group.
    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:41 No.1578699
    this is the type of player I hate.
    go play as a tiefling you fag.
    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:42 No.1578705
    Wrong. Most people are neutral. Congratulations, you fail at alignments.
    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:45 No.1578734
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    Try True Neutral.

    People always have their own interests ahead of others. They aren't going to go save some rape victim on the off chance they get shanked or shot by the rapist, or any other of bad outcomes. However, they also won't go and break laws/cross people willy nilly, as there's typically bad outcomes. They do what they can to better themselves and what they think they can get away with.
    >> d20modernfag 04/21/08(Mon)23:47 No.1578743
    This concept makes me wonder what would happen if two people cast a resurrection spell on two different piles of remains, each belonging to the same person. Do you get an evil twin?
    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:48 No.1578750
    The soul is already in a body. The spell fails.
    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:51 No.1578770

    Isn't that Chaotic Good?
    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:55 No.1578803
    Evil action shift you towards an Evil alignment. There's some leeway, but if you make a habit of them, for whatever reason, the forces of Evil are gonna take a liking to you.
    >> OP 04/21/08(Mon)23:56 No.1578817
    Well, in my case I'd expect Great Aunt Whatshername to appear and start bitching about how I never leave flowers at her grave and I don't Speak With Dead enough and don't deserve to raise her so she's taking Cousin Douchebag's spell instead and how I'd better shape up if I ever expect to yadda yadda.
    >> Anonymous 04/21/08(Mon)23:59 No.1578842
    Model your character after Solomon Kane.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)00:08 No.1578924
    Model your character after Michael Bluth. Your party is mostly likely going to be very dysfunctional. Be the responsible one.
    >> OP 04/22/08(Tue)01:24 No.1579452
    Any thoughts as to the feasibility of my suggestion?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)01:27 No.1579474
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)01:31 No.1579501
    Didn't really want to make another thread for this; I just started playing a LG Ruby Knight Vindicator (Cleric & Crusader levels as well) of Kelemvor (DM okayed RKV for kelemvor). Problem is, I didn't really think about the role-playing repercussions beyond "I like to slay dragons and undead and rescue princesses and wear full plate and shit", so I have a ridiculously dull character. Any ideas for a non "PREPARE TO BE JUDGED, EVIL ONE" character that's still LG?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)01:31 No.1579502

    Solomon Kane is Chaotic Good.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)01:39 No.1579546
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    Too complicated, too NPC-ish, too fucking boring in a campaign. A PC with this background would end up being the party's moralfag, whose motivation was the utterly banal "Imma ressurrect grandad just as soon as I earn enough XP to level!"

    Here's one that's simple and to the point: Bounty hunter. Travels from town to town, earning food and shelter by bringing criminals to justice. For reference, see "Hang 'Em High".
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)03:37 No.1580110
    The old Second Edition Forgotten Realms book had a listing of the Paladin's Code, which is a fairly sane, rational approach to the matter. Laws are awesome, 'cause they help people live better lives. If the laws aren't doing that, they need to be changed, but not by hucking bricks through windows like the Chaotic Good dude over there is doing.

    Rifts, I know, is a giant pile of something unmentionable, but the metaplotty Cyber-Knights book devotes a full section to Lawful Good awesomery. If you can find that, you're set.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:01 No.1580176
    Hang 'Em High is a fucking revenge film. 'Bounty hunting' was a secondary consideration for the character.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:16 No.1580208
    The best way to play a lawful good character is to start out young, naive and idealistic. Your character should sincerely believe that he or she can change the world and fix all of the evils in it. As the campaign goes on, and the problems pile up, however, rather than suffer a nervous breakdown and fall like the DM will probably want you to, have your character go on a period of soul searching. Whether quiet contemplation or fierce power-angsting is up to your character's temperament, but the end result should be the same. Your character sees the evils of the world, realizes that fighting them isn't as easy as he first thought, but rather than breakdown and puss out into a Chaotic Neutral alignment he says "No, FUCK THAT." and resolves to press on. This is where you need to decide if your character is more about the Lawful part of his alignment, or the Good part. If you do it right, you should be able to bend the rules of one without suffering an alignment shift. This is the stuff that gar characters are made of.

    Tl;dr: Lawful good isn't about cuddling puppies and never accepting a reward. It's about Righteous Fury and being a man.
    >> Random Death Star-Sized Sapient Disco Ball of Tzeentch !4T1uHiOuyE 04/22/08(Tue)04:25 No.1580221
    This. If anything ever enscapulated the LG personality of higher levels, it should be this; one lone man, standing against the evils of the world. Sure, the world sucks, but if that's the case, why add to it?
    >> d20modernfag 04/22/08(Tue)04:26 No.1580223
    I always pictured the epitome of Lawful Good being the Justice that retires during the Judge Dredd movie. Bringing law to the lawless.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:27 No.1580224
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    Think Batman: Be lawful and good, but don't let the laws of the societies get in the way of your love for good law and your hate of chaos and evil. The police sitting on their hands? Evil law makers in power? Courts letting the guilty run free? Work along side the government to right the wrongs and to help guide the world into a better tomorrow.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:32 No.1580228
    Lawful Good = Vigilantism
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:33 No.1580232
    Vigilantism = Any Good
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:40 No.1580239
    >Vigilantism = Any All

    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:40 No.1580240
    Chaotic Good
    >> d20modernfag 04/22/08(Tue)04:42 No.1580244
    Since I'm on an alignment kick, the discordian view of chaos is particularly useful in informing players about their lawful or chaotic activities. There's a difference between constructive and destructive order (LG, LE) and constructive and destructive chaos (CG, CE). This leaves the neutral kids either unenlightened or boring on the scale, though.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:44 No.1580251
    I guess that's true. It could happen anywhere there is someone believing that the society isn't into it's alignment as it should be.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:45 No.1580252
    2/10 These trolls are losing their charm.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:53 No.1580269
    Be a paragon of law itself. Love thy neighbor, but law is thy master. If a land owner has a deed for a farm for less than dubious purposes, and evicts the penitents, you let him have it, it is his. That's the law aspect, though the good may come that you'll bring the now homeless farmers to a shelter and refer them for new work. Good doesn't mean you're a carebear, you just feel socially responsible in a sense for people or things... Then again, in a case where someone is suffering and he will die, you give him a clean death, just as much as you would a man torn apart in the maws of a beast, though still living. If he's pious, he'll join his God, that's just the way things are. If you want to look it in another light of lawful good, read up on WH40k's inquisitors and draw inspiration from that, just less sociopathic. In the end, you'd be doing more good more efficiently than they ever could. Start small, but gradually expand.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:53 No.1580270
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    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:54 No.1580271
    You can be a badass with your lawful goodness if you have a "you make me sick" attitude and look to the world with disdain. Appreciate people who are truely good and just and look upon others like they're the cancer killing the world.


    Be fun and light hearted but cool and have a strong level of control. Play a character that just loves to come up with a plan. Follow these plans closely as well as a strict personal code.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:56 No.1580280
    I have a lawful good wizard character.

    He is motivated by good and will risk his life (to some extent) to help people regardless of whether he feels they deserve it or not, and he is bound to some extent by a scholarly sense of discipline. He analyzes risk to the point of being overly cautious and makes it a point to always have a plan and always look back on a situation to see what went wrong and what went well.

    It's that simple.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:58 No.1580286
    Being lawful doesn't mean you let people get pushed around by the law. You can do things because they're right and just. If you let the guy take the farmer's land its like telling them "Life isn't fair." A good part of law is bring the fairness back into life. If you believe that though lawfully aquired, the farmers deserve the land more, take a stand for justice and find a way to resist the guy.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:59 No.1580288
    Play Lawful Good as character who will always try to do the right thing and abide by society standards.

    But he has a flaw. Your character has a very skewed perception of what "the right thing" and "standards" are.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)04:59 No.1580289
    This guy has the right idea.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:00 No.1580291
    As a moralfag, I habitually play LG characters.
    All you need to do to be lawful is to believe that life is better if rules are followed. Maybe a personal code of honor, maybe laws placed for the common good. But you believe that it is important to have structure in your life.
    All you need to do to be good is to believe that helping others is more important than helping yourself.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:06 No.1580314

    Shitstorm on the horizons, captain.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:08 No.1580322
    Alignment doesn't work newb.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:08 No.1580324
    Yeah, more people need to understand this: Even Paladins can break the law if it's unjust. Personally, I've always thought that Lawful Good's is best played as some form of Truth, Justice and the [Insert hero's nationality] Way!
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:13 No.1580338
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    George Washington is a chaotic motherfucker. He rebelled against the most lawfulest of lawful and after winning he left the freed nation in total anarchy. He knew that living life wasn't about being ruled or writting laws. He understood that life just is what it is and it's best left like that, pure and free from any government.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:13 No.1580339
    Exactly, this man speaks the truth!
    In some planes/worlds/dimensions/whatever it is considered nice, especially kind and respectful, to eat babies and rape females spontaneously.

    Alignment doesn't work.
    >> Random Death Star-Sized Sapient Disco Ball of Tzeentch !4T1uHiOuyE 04/22/08(Tue)05:16 No.1580349
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    I always say LG characters as willing to bend, but not break the law. So if, say, a man was assaulted by a high-ranking noble, a CG/NG character might be willing to break into the guy's house/assault the guy back, but an LG guy would only contemplate screwing the baddie over in court.

    Pic might be related, but only if said LG guy also contemplates screwing the other lawyer. Or is that just me?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:17 No.1580352
    I guess you just want me to point out that as a mechanic where good and evil are forces of nature and not just points of view, relativity doesn't have any room. All that can be debated is if doing a typically chaotic act to meet a lawful end turn the character chaotic. This is up to the DM.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:17 No.1580354

    See if you can find out what I did there.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:18 No.1580355
    I heard that motherfucker had, like 30 goddamn dicks.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:20 No.1580364
    Lawful good can break and enter as long as it's in the name of justice. Some LG character understand that law isn't perfect and they work to make it as good as possible. What if a LG guy walks into a LE city with its own set of evil laws? The LG will break them all for the sake of what he believes should be law.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:22 No.1580372
    He never screws the other lawyer unless they're guilty.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:24 No.1580377
    I don't see LG going out with intention of breaking LE laws just because they're evil.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:35 No.1580404
    In LE societies, human sacrafice might be lawful as well as slavery. Not conforming to their laws and thinking that these laws are wrong and should be changed may be against the law. Thought crimes. The LG guy needs to do something, but won't because it's against the law?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:36 No.1580407

    It doesn't even sound like an A. Seriously.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:37 No.1580409

    An LG paladin would look around a LE society, politely excuse himself and leave, then return with an army in order to liberate the fuck out of that society.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:38 No.1580412

    YES. This. This is a paladin worhty of the name!
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:39 No.1580415
    But a bunch of children are going to be stabbed to death on a dark alter tomorrow!!
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:39 No.1580421
    Fuck you! He has got to respect the law!
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:41 No.1580427

    Then we'll have to round up that army real quick.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:48 No.1580456
    Be the hero that saves the day. Be the man that looks at those who think that others can be exploited to their gain and decide that they're wrong. Be the man who would strike down those who /dare/ to believe they're above any other person just because they're powerful. Be the man who will bring down the fist of an angry god upon those who think that suffering is a joke, those who think that poverty is laughable.

    Be the man who outright refuses to see horrible acts enacted upon innocent people and let them continue. Be the man who hates to see people treated unfairly. Be the man who stands for what is right.

    Be the man who is strong. Be the man who will lift mountains, who will stop a rampaging tarrasque with nothing more than a scream, a sword, and faith that his god will bring down this beast. Be the man who frightens those who dare to stand against him with a glance and a turn to face them. Be the man who, despite these strengths, will find the time to treat a woman with kindness, a child with friendliness. Be not a force of destruction incarnate, but instead a sentinel for those who cannot fight.

    Be that man.

    Be a paladin.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:51 No.1580462

    I want to see that on a propaganda poster. With an armored dude pointing at the viewer.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:53 No.1580472
    So a LG character can be stopped by a "No trespassing" sign?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:55 No.1580481
    Believe in a hero.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:55 No.1580483
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    I once had a paladin who worked with a Chaotic Good rogue.

    The rogue had sapped a guard, and my paladin calmly stepped over him to continue into the room.

    My DM tried to claim that my paladin powers were removed, despite the fact that the guard worked for the very corrupt king, and that I had acted "Unlawfully".

    So I quoted Meatwad.

    "Whose law? Your law or mine?"

    I went into a full explanation of my paladin's code of honor and beliefs. Which he followed to the letter and in spirit...not anyone else's, because his was better.

    The DM retracted his ruling. I kept my Lay On Hands. That was funny.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:55 No.1580486

    " Good. Lawful Good. "

    Bond-musics in teh background
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:56 No.1580491
    I use my daily facepalm on this thread.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:58 No.1580497
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    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)05:59 No.1580509
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    >> Dave 04/22/08(Tue)06:06 No.1580534
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    As supporting evidence that Lawful Good can make for fuckawesome gameplay, it just doesn't most of the time because most people who play it are idiots, the Sameo story.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:08 No.1580541
    Fake story is fake.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:08 No.1580544
    Still the best story I've ever read.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:14 No.1580557

    That's where paladins get screwed. It's not the good - evil that does them in, it's the fact that every DM out there seems to think Lawful Good MUST ALWAYS BE Lawful Dumbass, and that breaking any law, ever, *irregardless* of what that law is, is somehow breaking the paladin code.

    Fuck that.

    "The STRENGTH of JUSTICE depends on the harm the INJUSTICE has caused. When the INJUSTICE is great enough, JUSTICE will lend me the STRENGTH needed to CORRECT it. NONE may stand against it. It will SHATTER every barrier, SUNDER any shield, TEAR through any ENCHANMENT, and lend its servant the POWER to PASS SENTENCE. KNOW THIS: There is nothing on ALL the PLANES that can STAY the hand of JUSTICE when it is brought against them. It may unmake ARMIES. It may sunder the thrones of GODS. Know that for all who BETRAY justice, I am their FATE. And fate carries an EXECUTIONER'S AXE."
    "I see."
    "You do NOT see. PRAY that you NEVER will."
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:14 No.1580558
    >book of critical failures
    >Player and adjacent target die

    What the fuck system is this?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:15 No.1580564
    And then Xiombarg turned the poor bastard into a little girl.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:16 No.1580566
    Really I feel sorry for the groups that always play good alignment. With my old group we usually had 2 good aligned players, 1-2 neutral, and 1-2 evil. The chemistry was awesome and every session usually consisted of much chortling from how our characters played off one another.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:19 No.1580570
    Alignment isn't as limiting as most people seem to think. You only have to be lawful good in action. There's nothing stopping you from being say a foul mouthed old man or a bardic style ladies man.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:29 No.1580593
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    Chaotic Neutral: Do what you want, when you want it, and fuck everything else! It's the honest people you need to worry about, you know.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:33 No.1580610

    The endless laughs that ensue when the LE magistrate sentences the villain the players have captured to an incredibly horrific death because "that's the law, if he didn't want his soul sold to the rape demons of the ninth plane of hell he shouldn't have raped that girl and got caught" would be worth it.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:34 No.1580614
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:34 No.1580615
    You never know when they'll do something stupid.

    Does he plan it all out? Or just make it up as he goes?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:37 No.1580632
    Lawful Good characters which are awesome are dwarves who run a forge, help out the entire town, aid the barman in getting good drinks, donates to charity, and fucks up ANYONE who messes with him or the town.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:39 No.1580647
    Lawful Good with mildly chaotic tendencies?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:40 No.1580652

    Planning is for pussies. It takes a real man to walk off the edge every session. Besides, that way it's much more fun!
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:41 No.1580655
    What? He is the epitome of LG.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:43 No.1580658
    DM its easy.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:43 No.1580661
    He beats people up quite a bit though.

    Actually, in D&D that's perfectly Lawful.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)06:59 No.1580722
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    I have a character idea now. He's a lawful good member of the town guard. He could be a fighter or a cleric, but he'll probably end up multiclassing something that gives him telepathy.

    He learned from a young age that small crimes are the foundations of larger crimes, so he endeavors to punish ALL evildoers. Attempted pickpocketing? Picked up a beerstein that doesn't belong to you? Took a gold piece off of the ground? He uses that telepathy to sense these crimes nearby and, with claymore in tow, charges at full speed to the offender shouting "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" He gives them the option of paying a fine for their transgression or being taken to jail, where he takes any of their possessions they don't have proof of ownership for. If they resist they can PAY WITH THEIR BLOOD.

    pic related.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)07:06 No.1580741
    Is this a reference to a character I am not aware of?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)07:08 No.1580749
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)08:29 No.1581070
    HAHAHA. fucking class. i started to dupe and cheat my way through the game just so i could go back into town and fuck his ass up.

    ahahha, loved it.

    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)08:32 No.1581078
    Does anyone else on /tg/ use Oscuro's Overhaul mod?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)08:38 No.1581096

    Yes with the Martin's Monsters add-on and a bunch of others that are compatible with it.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)08:39 No.1581099

    I did. Unfortunately I also installed a bunch of other shit mods like some fanmade quests that were so unbelieveably bad that I quit playing in disgust. Can Anon point me in the direction of GOOD oblivion mods, maybe?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)08:42 No.1581106
    Use OOO. It's good. There are also some purposely compatible mods that go along with OOO such as the environmental mods and such.

    I had OOO installed along with Lilarcor and a couple minor detail-changing mods. Worked fine until a week ago, now my computer just won't even open Oblivion.exe at all.

    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)08:44 No.1581116
    Fuck Oscuro for forcing me to use it despite it's slow-as-treacle animated container bullshit.

    On topic, I tried making a nonlethal LG Cleric once. Had Sunder and a merciful adamantine warhammer, and went around beating people's swords into ploughshares, then smashing them unconscious. Unfortunately he could do fuck all against constructs, undead and things with natural weapons. He was fun to roleplay though, particularly thanks to the intraparty conflict with the Paladin. No, you cannot murder these unconscious goblins.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)09:48 No.1581279
    Lawful Good=Superman.

    I will do what is right and good by the common man, for as long as the common man is righteous and just. Should he fall from those heights, I will gently remind him of his duty to his fellow man, and help him rise above his folly.

    Those who spread fear, cause hate, and destroy the livelihood of the week, the helpless, the innocent, they will see me a stalawart defender of those they do evil unto.

    This is the kind of man who will NOT go and assault the nest of goblins that has movied into the nearby forest. He's go to them and negotiate peace. If they ramapge through the town he'll defend the town - but not retaliate in kind, because that would be no better than his enemy.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)09:49 No.1581284
    But what exactly is the common man?

    What if superman was sent to bizzaro version of earth instead of the normal one?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)09:55 No.1581302
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)10:07 No.1581331
    Do what you want, because a Pirate is free, YOU ARE A PIRATE!
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)10:25 No.1581376
    Agreed. Truly a worthy hero.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)10:26 No.1581382

    Now you again.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)11:37 No.1581735
    Damnit. I only meant to make a short post, but three hours later I've created a monster. How do I split up eight MSword pages into postable format?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)11:47 No.1581825

    Lawful Good Rogue.

    You play by the rules. You have the best intentions towards everyone. But your method of combat is a shank to the back and the skill you contribute to the group is your better ability to search, disarm traps, et cetera.

    You are Solid Snake. And you can beat the whole game without killing a single person I bet.

    Go on. Go Dark Age Solid Snake. You know you want to.
    >> Nasdaq !3LrT5NRVks 04/22/08(Tue)11:50 No.1581839
    Play a guy who does the right and good thing, and also follows he rules.

    How fucking hard is that? Let your actions define your alignment, not the other way around. I tend to play good characters who follow the rules, so I play Lawful Good.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)12:47 No.1582168
    No shitstorm?
    >> OP 04/22/08(Tue)13:30 No.1582466
    Pretty hard, for me. I crave variety in my entertainment. Novel thoughts and situations and ideas are what brings me pleasure. Playing a generic lawful good character, in a party of generic lawful good characters, in a campaign with generic evil shit, is fucking boring. Lawful good has a lot in common with chaotic evil in this respect, in that there's really only one way to play while respecting the alignment. Oh, I get to choose between lawful stupid and lawful jackass, but both have been done to fucking hell and back. There's no way to bore the fuck out of more quickly than force me to play a stereotype.

    Look at the responses in this thread - the most memorable time anyone has playing a lawful good character is when they aren't good or break the law, and get away with it. Their anecdotes are dictated by their alignment. When was the last time you heard a true neutral player giggle about that one time he wasn't so neutral, instead of some awesome thing he did?

    You say to let my actions determine my alignment. I say I'm trying to find actions that aren't "I SMITE THE EVIL WITH MY GREATSWORD!" yet would still resolve to lawful good. Part of the problem is, there's a very large contingent of people who think a lawful good character MUST act like a durr hey paladin, this group included. I'm trying to find novel character ideas that are clearly lawful good, yet are still interesting enough to play.
    >> OP 04/22/08(Tue)13:44 No.1582556
    One more thing I should probably mention: searching for a lawful good character is especially difficult for me because I'm one of those moral relativists ya'll like to bitch about so much.

    Simply put, the alignment system in D&D is fucking schizophrenic. "Good" and "lawful" are real physical entities, except when they're not (Eberron). So casting good spells should make you good, except when you cast them to do evil, which the personification of Good notices (except when it doesn't) and somehow denies the inherent Goodness of the good. Likewise, lawful characters have to obey the law to remain lawful, unless the law is unlawful in which case obeying the law will make you unlawful and you should break the unlawful law to stay lawful.

    It turns into a huge fucking argument every time it comes up, so part of my brain preemptively shuts off when I think about it. Problem is, it's the creative part.
    >> Nasdaq !3LrT5NRVks 04/22/08(Tue)14:09 No.1582723
    Well there you have it. Despite your ideas about how morality works (and eberron still has personifications of good in celestials) you will never understand Lawful Good, nor any awesome moments from being lawful good because your worldview is too much of an intellectual sucide to truely get Lawful Good and how it can be awesome.

    I don't rage about you, I pity you.
    >> !Ep8pui8Vw2 !moot/UIi/o 04/22/08(Tue)14:12 No.1582745
    Stick to either your own personal set of ethics, or that of your god, and never deviate. Fuck the local laws. And no one ever said Lawful Good had to be nice. Talk like a contemptous dickhead, act like Galahad.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)14:19 No.1582776
    Perhaps not. I also don't like Drizz't, despite how totally awesome he is.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)14:21 No.1582781
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    This is what Lawful Good looks like.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)14:24 No.1582794
    Play Lawful Good.
    Force an alignment change.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)14:31 No.1582831
    A LG is the Good Cop. He believes in the law because he believes the law can help people. Maybe he won't lay down his life for a longshot chance to save other people, but it'll chew him that he could've done something. He'd probably rather talk someone down than fight, but he'll man up when the time comes.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)14:37 No.1582862

    Fuck yes! That's a paladin, by my reckoning.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)14:39 No.1582872

    try harder, trollo
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)14:41 No.1582882

    Galahad was the most pious stuck up knight among them... well, depending on the story, he was also the crudest, pagan bastard you could find...

    Lancelot would be better.

    Also, read up on alignments in the book, keep them in mind when people get stupid about it, and if you don't want to worry about the gods taking notice of your evil actions and punishing you, don't play a divine empowered character, play a fighter who acts like a paladin.

    Remember, whatever people may argue about batman, he is defined as LG in the book, when you are doing something morally shaky, thing "What would Batman Do?"
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)16:18 No.1583580
    Alright, we get it. You don't like LG. Quit bitching and join a group that doesn't have alignment restrictions.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)16:33 No.1583661
    >>1582466 this group included

    Leave the group. It sucks.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)17:03 No.1583810
    The guy is rich for a reason, and it's because he bought the deed from whatever authority in power at the time. Don't forget, your guy is LAWFUL good, and he has to make a choice between obeying the law or his own moral convictions. He knows it's unfair, but if he starts taking the law into his own hands in a feudal system, he'll find himself out on his ass pretty damn fast and be considered a vigilante, or rather, chaotic. Sure, your guy might do the legal battle thing if he has the resources and time to defend the farmer's family and get them back their deed, but in the court of law, it wouldn't fly.

    "He broke the law, he has no right to the land!"
    "He has a permit for that."
    "... What?"
    "He purchased a permit to do that, he's empowered by the crown, any attempt to interfere will be an act of treason and be lead to immediate incarceration of all those involved. You are fined with legal fees of 2000 gold, including wasting Mr. Blackheart's time, if you cannot afford this amount, your equipment, mount and worldly possessions will be confiscated to repair damages done to his reputation and professional business, dismissed."
    "... But... Lawful Good..."

    TL;DR Letters of Marque, anyone? It's cool for you to be a pirate, so long as you fuck their shit and leave mine alone. If he's within the law, you can't touch him unless you wish to break the law and become neutral/chaotic.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)17:11 No.1583870
         File :1208898684.gif-(11 KB, 400x285, WARNING009.gif)
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    So in your games a "No Trespassing" sign at the entrance of a dungeon will stop 33% (LG/LN/LE) of all characters from proceeding?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)17:19 No.1583926
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    An insert coin to continue sign would stop all the chaotics from entering.

    Hrmmm. A small puppy with a sign "kick puppy to enter" would probably stop all good. "Pet puppy to enter" would stop all evil. That only leaves true neutrals. Nothing can stop a true neutral.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)17:23 No.1583961

    >Nothing can stop a true neutral

    Guy: "Hey, you, quick, make a decision!"
    TN: "Shit."
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)17:24 No.1583967
    No, chaotics would be all like "lul insert coin? that is random." and do et.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)17:24 No.1583968
    wouldn't all chaotic ignore the signs?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)17:27 No.1583989
    "Please do not feed the elephant"
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)17:28 No.1583998

    Play a part troll character with a very low intelligence and wisdom who has grown up in the wilderness. While he staunchly supports the idea of lawful good, he isn't too clear what it is, since he has no societal basis or brainpower to understand it. So he tries his best to do what he thinks is lawful good, while not always doing it very well.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)17:28 No.1583999
    Dungeons are typically on uncontested land or belong to the crown and are infested. Usually these places are marked for annihilation by the owner of the land are have to be purged. If however, the dungeon is warranted to exist and they pose no threat, lawful (especially good) characters should feel some mighty misgivings about entering and slaughtering everything. To Evil Characters, a dwarven mine could be considered a "dungeon", and typically lawful evil characters will abide by the laws of the land they're on. Times of war however, are different things. Martial law dictates that things must be destroyed, if your monarch says "cleanse this filth", you do so... And if they're good people you have to kill, then you have a moral dilemma. Effective DMs will put PCs in situations where they test their morals and convictions, bad DMs will impose alignments to better control players and streamline them. The main reason I suggest play the "Lawful" aspect to the edge is because you're playing with a bit of a loophole because you prefer to hold law over good and cause some dischord with the group... You're doing what they told you to, but you refuse to be a doo gooder and if they act unlawfully, you turn them in to the authorities.

    TL;DR Being good doesn't give you a license to murder everything that isn't, self contained lawful evil characters that stick to their own societies without instigating anyone don't mark them for extermination by default, that's genocide. Evil doesn't mean you eat babies and slaughter pregnant women, it means you look after yourself and your own before others and "help" people if in the end it benefits you in some way.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)18:22 No.1584460
    I've always found the problems with alignments, any of them really, is relativity. If X is lawful and Z is unlawful here, but X is unlawful there and Z is lawful there, whose law do you follow? If helping an old lady up when she falls is considered good here, but a great insult there, do you follow their morals or yours?

    Has anyone here ever read Runelords? I like the ethics/morals he (the author) explains in the book.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)18:24 No.1584472
    At least with 4E the alignments will be cleared up some, what with removing lawful/chaotic, more clearly defining good/evil and having unaligned, and scrapping the various planes.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)18:36 No.1584571
    Typically lawful/chaotic isn't a problem, as the line just gets blurred for keeping things simple, but in OP's case, he's being rail roaded to be controlled. That's why I suggested playing up the lawful aspect balls to the walls. Generally it's assumed that what you kill is okay because it was evil and slaughtering everything indiscriminately and you're saving society in the name of "law" and "good" which is kinda blurry anyway.

    ^^'s example says what does x do when y does his thing... Well, usually they look away so they don't see it happening, sure, they're hypocrites for it, but it saves them some trouble. Paladins don't ask the rogue where he got his knife, he just assumes he always had it, where as the rogue just assumes his guild master was turned in by a snitch in the organization. When they're forced to see said actions, they just deal with the "bigger problem" at the time if there's one and work it out later, and typically promise not to do it again but never stick to their word and the process goes on. The only time it gets to be a problem is when it brings down too much heat on the rest of the group, or THAT FUCKER KEEPS STEALING MY GEAR. Then, he gets killed for stealing your spell components for the "Detect Whores, Greater" from the mage or the paladin gives all the party's gold away to the poor.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)21:58 No.1585828
    My favourite LG character I played for about twenty sessions and actually became an element of the campaign world. He was a Fighter-equivalent who started his career at a young age determined to change things for the better. A decade later, though, he's given up and left for a small monastery because nothing he does seems to make a difference in the long run. He spends much of his time reading stories of the ancient heroes, and can't understand how they achieved so much change for the better when he can't get a thing done. Then, though, he visits the town he based his adventuring from, and hears the villagers lament the disappearance of the kid who had done so much to help them, and the awful state of the town since he left.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)21:58 No.1585829

    There and then, he realises the secret of how the old heroes did so much more than he could have dreamed of. Each and every one of them was just one man, however powerful, and could only stop what had already been set in motion. Their actiosn, in and of themselves, were of little permanent value. But the true strength lay in what their actions meant to all those who heard of them. They heard of men who stood for right, no matter the personal cost. Men who would never sacrifice their morals to achieve their goals. Men who cared nothing for the consequences to themselves, so long as they made the world a better place for everyone around them. And most inspiring of all, men who would not ever, even for a second, betray themselves. From this, men, women and children learned that it was possible to do better than merely survive. They drew great joy from learning the very best man could do, and sought to repay that by doing good themselves. They drew the strength to do what was right instead of what was easy from the knowledge that yes, it can be done. The men achieved little by themselves, but by changing the hearts and minds of the people, by giving them the strength of will to reject evil, and by spreading throughout the world a message of heroism, love, mercy and kindness, they achieved more for good than a hundred such heroes could on their own.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)21:58 No.1585830

    But his time, though, had no such beacon of hope. People knew nothing of a better way, only of the ways of survival. They accepted evil because they knew no better. But regardless of their dire circumstances and the evil acts they all committed day by day, they hungered for hope of a better way, to the point that even a mediocre fighter who achieved little of note could be a famous name among them.

    And so, he set out to become that beacon. He trained long and hard to be stronger, not so he could survive, but so better options would always be open to him. He destroyed his old self, so no taint could be found in his name. Most important of all, he destroyed his individuality, wore an all-concealing suit of brilliantly-shining armour, and took for himself the name Avatar, for as a man he was fallible and vulnerable, but as a symbol, he was truly immortal.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)21:59 No.1585836

    From that day forth he went out to do great deeds across the known world, defeating evil and saving the pure and innocent, everything from ending vast threats to humanity itself, to solving disputes amongst shopkeepers. Everywhere he went he would uncompromisingly do not just what was good, but what was the most good possible in the situation. He would become known across the land as the hero who never once did anything but the best he could possibly do, not ever compromising a single life or gold coin to make his work easy, and most of all, despite suffering the most devastating of blows, and seeming to die, always later appearing again, completely unharmed. And the strength for this he gained from the knowledge that for each good deed without evil he did, there would be a hundred more who heard of it doing one good deed for their fellows.

    Another campaign, set eight hundred years later, and the legend of the Avatar is still strong, for he still patrols the land to this day. Not once has he done anything less than the most good he possibly could, and not one tale tells of him being hurt. His legend has grown until nearly every child in the known world has heard his tales, and his name has surpassed each and every one of the ancient heroes that inspired him. Though they vary greatly in their content and their telling, they all carry the same message: we have the choice to not accept evil into our actions and our thoughts. He has become not so much a man turned hero as an ideal turned man, a perfect man of perfect thoughts, for whom acts of enormous good comes as naturally and easily as breath for a mortal.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)21:59 No.1585842

    Yet one young man, living alone as a huntsman in the woods, is soon to find out something different. He, too, has heard the tales of the Avatar. He tries to do good, but it is so difficult, and so very easy to accept second-best. Oh, sure, he thinks, the Avatar could do it because he's not even human. I'm not like that, so why should I follow an example that cannot ever be duplicated by a mortal?

    At that moment, there is a thunderous crash, and the door to his hut collapses to reveal the impossible: the Avatar himself is here, and he is gravely wounded. Genuinely surprised to find that he is vulnerable, the boy rushes to his aid, and under isntruction removes the brilliant, untarnished armour. To his great surprise, underneath lies an old man of white hair and scarred flesh, pierced through the chest and dying. He is not divine, not invulnerable, and not even immortal. He is merely a human. The old man thanks him for his help, and asks that the youth takes his body, his sword, and his armour to a certain island, far off a distant coast that he has never heard of it, for a proper burial. The youth tries to question the old man, but he slips into unconsciousness, and soon dies. The youth is furious that the tales of his youth are lies. Either this Avatar is a fake, and the validity of the stories are compromised, or this is truly the Avatar, and the stories are completely worthless. Enraged and betrayed though he is, he still feels reluctant to completely discard the ideals that have formed such an integral part of his life. He decides he'll grant the old man his dying request in the hopes that it presents a better explanation that the two that threaten to compromise his entire self.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)22:00 No.1585843

    Weeks later, after travelling far across land and sea with the embalmed corpse that destroyed his very sense of self, the youth runs into a heavy fog, and after trying in vain to escape it, runs aground on an island marked on no map. Though he can see barely a foot from his face, there is clearly something of great power here, for the air itself feels electric. Though he has no reason to do so, the youth knows immediately that this is the island the old man described. Pushing his way through the beach, and the forest beyond it, he comes to a snow-covered expanse of blankness, the snow here and there broken by small, withered saplings it hungrily engulfed. Pushing through the fog, he notices the immense silence, heavy, almost reverent, as he approaches what seems to be nearly the centre, finding there a deep angular hole that appears to be a grave. Deep in the hole is a stone, carved with words reading "This hole dug by Kay the Megiddan, on the fourth day of Harvest, for the death I will not flee from. Please bury me in the fashion befitting an Arkhardist" Touched by the words, for all the questions they raise, the youth knows somehow that the hole was meant for, and dug by, this very man on a day far past. He may have the skin of a Megiddan, and the handmark of an Arkhardist, but there is still no way he should know that this man is Kay. He is greatly concerned by the mystical sensations and strange knowledges the island is feeding him, but feels the need to bury the man as he requested and stays his fear long enough to do so. After placing the body and filling the grave, he completes the warrior's burial by thusting the dead man's sword, blade-first, into the ground atop his body, and says a prayer.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)22:00 No.1585847

    He turns to leave, but realises he hasn't buried the armour. He remembers putting it onto the man just an hour ago, and removing the embalming wrap to do so, but that can't have been. However, there at his feet lies the embalming wrap, so he must have. Fearing for his lfie and sanity, he thinks to flee, but a booming voice cuts across the chill silence, seeminly speaking directly into his mind.

    "Come here, and bring the armour. You have a final task to do."

    His fear turns to alarm, but the voice does not seem threatening. In fact, it almost seems familiar. His curiosity takes over, and he heads to the voice, coming fromthe very centre of the island. There, at wha the knows must be the centre of the snow-covered expanse, he sees the silhouette of a massive and armoured man, standing atop a grave similar to that he has just dug.

    "I have been waiting for you, boy."

    The deep voice of the massive man speaks again, and the youth wanders closer. He makes to set down the bag as he approaches.

    "Keep it, boy. You'll need it for what lies ahead of you."

    This statement sends a barrage of questions racing through the youth's mind, but these are soon quelled by his irriation.

    "I am no boy," he says, "I am near on nineteen years old."

    The man laughs.

    "You're still a boy to me, then, for I am near on eight hundred."

    Suddenly, it clicks. The massive man armoured in what seems to be identical plate to the suit in the youth's sack, the unique shape of the greatsword thrust in the ground at his feet, and his claims of age.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)22:00 No.1585848

    "You... you are the Avatar!"

    The man waves his hand in dismissal at the youth, now breathless with excitement.

    "Was the Avatar, boy. I haven't done that for a long time now."

    The youth's excitement is quickly cut off, and replaced even faster by anger.

    "What, you mean that old corpse was the Avatar? Yeah, right. The guy's not immortal for one, and for another, he's dead! What kind of incarnation is dead, for God's sake? He's another useless, weak human, just like me, and just like everyone I know.!

    The man responds calmly to this outburst with a knowing smile.

    "You feel betrayed, don't you? That the ideal of a perfect man isn't true?"

    "Of course I do! The stories are lies, useless! What the hell is the point of them if the Avatar is just another man?"

    The man chuckles.

    "I used to think that way, boy, before I first donned that armour. But why is the legend compromised if a man did all those acts, instead of a godling?"

    The youth is speechless with indignation, so the man continues.

    "Think about it. If it takes a godling to do the right thing, then what chance does humanity have? Why should we try to do good, when only the living essence of good can do it right? But if a mere man can do good, always do good, and always do the most good, then we all can. We can deny the evil inside us, and make the world a better place for others, even if we don't expect them to do the same for us."

    The wisdom of this argument is unassailable, and the youth stands lost in thought at the consequences of it. Then, though, a prick of confusion brings him back.

    "Wait, you said 'we'. But you're the original Avatar if you're eight hundred. How can you be eight hundred years old as a human?"

    The man smiles, and the fog clears that little bit further. The youth gasps as he realises the man is slightly transparent.

    "Easy, boy. I'm dead. Have been for almost eight hundred years."
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)22:01 No.1585854

    "You've been dead since... wait, then how is that man, a mortal, the Avatar? How can the Avatar have lived for eight hundred years, unless dozens of men have taken over the job?"

    A look of grief passes over the ghost's face.

    "Thousands, actually. Standing for what is the greatest good you can achieve tends to lend itself to a rather short lifespan."

    The youth's shock is quickly replaced by a cynical glare.

    "That's ridiculous. If there were thousands of them, there would be some sign. Not just one dead guy and a ghost."

    The ghost smiles, and a great warm wind begins to blow, seemingly from all direction at once. The fog around the youth fades slowly, and the snows melt, as he sees the true nature of the flat expanse.

    It is a graveyard.

    Hundreds, thousands of weapons, some rusted and rotted to sticks, others shining as though they were new, all lie embedded in the earth. what before he had thought was a newly-planted forest, is a memorial to countless men who gave up their name, their individuality, and eventually their lives, to perpetuate the greatest symbol of good in the world, in the hopes that they would be leaving behind a better world than they had gone into.

    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)22:02 No.1585859

    The ghost stares out mournfully over the vast field, the rusted monuments to the departed heroes standing like the wheat before harvest.

    "I didn't know all this would happen, that my own life would lead to the deaths of some of the best men humanity ever had to offer. I started out trying to make myelf as one of the heroes of old, a brief spark in history, my works and death creating a symbol to inspire everyone who heard of it. I had no idea I had done my work so well, though. When I died, mortally wounded killing a vicious tyrant, one of the many men who followed in my example took up my armoru and my name, after burying me here on the island. He couldn't bear to see the work I had done forgotten by time, and sought to keep my name alive. It bought the Avatar a few years, and cost him that mound."

    The ghost gestured left, to an axe of ancient design, blade embedded into the earth.

    "He was, in a way, responsible too for what came about. His sacrifice to a symbol that brought hope to millions inspired a legendary wizard, who enchanted my armour. It would never age, repair any damage dealt to it, and should the user be slain, keep him alive long enough to find a man to take over. He felt honourbound to take the job himself, instead of sending another to his inevitable death, and now he lies there."

    The ghost gestured again, this time to an immaculate white staff sticking up from the ground on his right. The youth thought on this for a second, and a question demanded an answer.
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)22:02 No.1585860

    "Finds a replacement how? You can hardly knock on a random door and expect to find a suitable hero."

    The ghost smiled.

    "At first, it didn't. The third avatar spent a month searching for one, not a comfortable thing when your soul knows it's dead and screams to be released to the next life. Eventually, though, the armour developed a sense of who would do, until eventually it knew instinctively who and where the replacement was the moment the current Avatar was struck down."

    The youth looked puzzled.

    "It knew? You mean the armour is intelligent?"

    The giant laughed, and looked fondly at the grave of the wizard.

    "Oh, yes. The third avatar knew a trick when he saw one. He figured that if the armour was going to pass through the hands of hundreds of the most skilled heroes, it might as well take advantage of that. It captures the essence of the Avatar at the moment he dies, and holds it within itself. Anyone wearing the armour has access to the skills and wisdom of thousands of his predecessors, making the avatar a true force."

    The youth looked shocked, then skeptical.

    "Yeah, so there's been thousands of Avatars over the centuries. You really expect me to believe that every single one of them has never once broken the code of always doing the most good, regardless of personal cost? That's absurd. At least one of them had to be weak enough."
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)22:03 No.1585868

    The ghost smiled again, and gestured at the armour.

    "That's the true genius of the armour. Every single man who went into it was weak, and would have failed if they were doing it for themselves. However, they could never have even imagined letting down centuries of tradition, and the countless ones who went before, especially when they talk to them at all times. Just like a soldier fears failing his comrades far more than mere death, the wearer cannot imagine letting down the symbol of the Avatar, and the thousands of men who gave their lives, their deaths, and their very souls to do the same. Not to mention the armour always picks those who are possessed of such a nobility of spirit that to do so would be unimaginable."

    The youth seemed awed, then a wave of fear washed over his face.

    "Wait, but the suit came for me. It couldn't have picked me, could it? I'm probably the worst person it could have. I just can't do the right thing when I want to."

    The ghost's expression turned serious.

    "And that's what every one before you has said. That humility is vital to the sacrifice of self-identity, and your desire to do good is strong. You are only held back by your lack of strength and will, and the armour will grant you the strength and will of all those who wore it before you. Make no mistake, you are exactly the right one for the job."

    The ghost sighed, and looked the youth directly in the eyes.

    "So, will you do it? Will you sacrifice your self, your life, your death, and your soul, all for a symbol? Or will you stay whole, and allow the Avatar to finally pass into the pages of what-once-was?"
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)22:03 No.1585873

    The youth sat to think, and many minutes later, rose again, with a determined look.

    "Why are you here? Why aren't you in the armour or the other world?"

    The ghost stared through the youth, as though seeing something a thousand miles beyond.

    "I'm not in the armour, because I can't be. The original wizard didn't bind me in because he didn't know about me, but none of the others who did have done so. Why? Because I'm wrong for the job. I was the Avatar, so I don't have the same reverence for the role and those before me, because nobody came before me. I only managed to avoid compromising my ideals as the Avatar because I expected to die, and die I did. The avatar, though, cannot die. Finally, it was not humility but ambition that led me to don the armour. In short, while I was appropriate for what the Avatar started as, I am completely inappropriate for what it has become, and the avatar cannot be tainted in such a way. As for why I'm here? I couldn't let go of the role, and stayed in a vain attempt to maintain it, thinking of each new Avatar as myself. Yet another reason I can't be in that armour. And since I accepted this unlife, I might as well help those who would become the Avatar to their fate."

    The youth listened to all this with interest, and sat again. An hour later, he rose, his decision made.

    "I'll do it. I'll become the Avatar. What must I do?"
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)22:03 No.1585877

    The ghost thought for a second.

    "You need to pass a series of tests to prove you can do what needs to be done in the role. By travelling this far for a dead man, you hav eproven you can make great sacrifices for others, especially those who won't appreciate it. By accepting the truth, though it destroys much of who you are, you have shown you can deal with the loss of a sense of self. Only one test remains."

    The youth soon realised to what he referred.

    "To dig my own grave?"

    The ghost nodded, but the youth looked confused.


    The ghost regained that distant look, before meeting the youth's eyes.

    "Because as the Avatar, you will die. Not one of those before you has lived more than ten years in that armour, many only weeks. You will constantly have to put your life on the line, and eventually, you will be put in a situation where you must choose between dying for what is right, or betraying yourself and living. By digging your own grave, you prove that you can do what is right when that time comes."

    The youth took the shovel from beside the old man's grave, and dug for hours. Eventually, though, he dug the pit, six feet deep, and climbed out. He remembered the stone, and carved one such himself. He stoop at the edge of the pit, reading the stone again and again, asking himself if he could really accept that to do right he must eventually let himself be killed. Eventually, though, the only answer he could find was yes. He dropped the stone, and returned to the ghost.

    "What must I do now?"
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/22/08(Tue)22:04 No.1585882

    The ghost simply said

    "Take the armour, and put it on. You will then know what to do"

    The youth took the armour from the sack, and looked at each piece, before reverentially donning it. Despite never befor having worn armour, he knew where each piece should go. Eventually, the suit was complete. He began to walk back to the boat on the beach, but briefly turned.

    "Thank you, and goodbye."

    The youth soon disappeared into the forest, never again looking back. Had he done so, he would have seen a single ethereal tear running down the ghost's cheek, who had sent thousands of the best men the world could offer to their deaths in the name of good.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)22:08 No.1585915
    TL;DR. So he gets raped by a cleric of Pelor and cuts himself?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)22:15 No.1585956
    That is very good stuff, Dr. Evilsatan..
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)22:15 No.1585967
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    Contrary to the picture I actually read it all. I would think that doing the most good all the time would be neutral good though. Following the law strictly might compromise that, which would be unacceptable.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)22:20 No.1585989
    What's the cliffnotes version? I'm not reading 20 pages of fanfiction. "Paladin gets put into moral dilema. Then raped by cleric?"
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)22:24 No.1586008
    tl;dr guy decides that there aren't enough heroes, gets shiny armor, dies, armor gets passed down between good people, and is basically dread pirate roberts in paladin form.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)22:27 No.1586031

    I've given up on playing paladin characters because of that stupid moral dilemma junk. I've since played lawful good fighter/clerics who call themselves paladins. HAH.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)22:32 No.1586065
    Michael Carpenter. Dresden Files books, by Tim Butcher. That's all you need to know.
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)22:33 No.1586077
    I'd just stick to Neutral Good or Lawful Neutral. First gives you some leeway in regards to being a goody goody, and the second lets you be a judge without having the moral dilemmas, good people die sometimes for the greater good, tough titties. Better I kill those kids myself and they get to go to Heaven than get sacrificed by that cultist and their souls destroyed to liberate a pit fiend on the mortal plane. Actually, can a good character be a bit ruthless, lets say he sees someone being torn apart by a crocodile or something and it's beyond his means to heal him... Can he give the guy a "clean death" before killing the monster?
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)22:37 No.1586104
    >> Anonymous 04/22/08(Tue)23:12 No.1586293

    Why be president when you can be the largest landowner in America with fields upon fields of cannabis?
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)03:31 No.1587834
    Here's how I figure it, with the ebil noble sort stealing the poor farmer's land.

    Say the local lord turned out to be a vampire, and came by to chow down on some tasty tasty farmer blood. Would a paladin think twice about staking him for the sunrise and throwing the ashes in the river? Of course not.

    So what's the difference between that and this?

    Your god didn't make you a paladin so you could take shit and ask for more. You're the enforcer for a fair and just society. Laws exist to make people happy, and when laws are being corrupted into weapons for some bastard to use for his own aggrandizement, the laws need to change and the bastard needs to be removed from society. Flaunting the law to do evil should be considered a direct insult to you, your god, and your nation.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)03:50 No.1587920
    this man speaks the truth
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)14:21 No.1590083
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    It's beautiful

    *steals for campaign*
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)14:32 No.1590128
    I see what you did there. Fucking Auditors
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)14:38 No.1590146
    This. They are the best Paladins ever
    >> Edward !F8wHraWURw 04/23/08(Wed)14:43 No.1590174
    It's inspiring... I think I'm tearing up a little...
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)15:37 No.1590466
    Lawful good isn't (and shouldn't) be Lawful Robotic. Paladins protect the natural and man (elf, dwarf, etc.) made order in the world that preserves goodness, and will cheerfully demolish anything that uses the excuse of "laws" to spread evil as the anathema to their being such creations are.

    Good paladins don't look at "chaotic" or "neutral" good societies as things to be tampered with or broken- merely as a divine mystery to be studied until the order within that produces such goodness reveals itself to the paladin and can be nutured further.

    Likewise, evil is to be fought with the purpose of restoring an order that promotes goodness- preferrably by the most organized method possible, but unorthodox tactics for the good of others are not unacceptable for paladins.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)15:42 No.1590504


    You're a paladin. If you really believe you can close that portal to the Abyss three weeks early by sneaking through the castle sewers to get in, then not walking up with a herald to the front gate is fine by the gods of good, and indeed encouraged. Just properly challenge the demonologist before making him a shish-ka-bob.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)15:52 No.1590565
    >Be the man who would strike down those who /dare/ to believe they're above any other person just because they're powerful.

    What a load of crap. Chaotic Evil.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)17:19 No.1591117
    Does Soviet Dictator Superman also count as LG?
    if so, my next character.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)17:35 No.1591235
    lawful Evil.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)17:42 No.1591288
    my suggestion:
    Come from a place that is more lawful and more "good" than anyplace else and it's your sworn duty to your homeland to destroy anything that doesn't comply with your ideas of good and lawful.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)20:55 No.1592183
    LG really is difficult to comprehend for anyone who isn't LG.

    LG is trying to do what's best for someone even if they've hurt you. The only reason you'd get angry is if it was done in a manner that seemed unfair. The only reason you'd be hurt is that you can no longer help them.

    LG is being furious that someone has been hurt. LG both tries to fix the wrong and prevent it from happening again. LG seeks justice and reconciliation before retribution.

    LG is selflessness even when selflessness bites you in the ass. By normal people's definition, it's insanity.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)21:12 No.1592268
    omfg i have that shirt!!!!!
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)21:18 No.1592289
    By hell and highwater, someone's finally got it.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)21:19 No.1592295
    I don't see anything particularly Lawful in there.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)22:02 No.1592519
    The difference between LG and CG or NG is just methodology. CG is just going off and fixing a problem on your own w/o consulting anyone else: vigilante justice. NG fixes it by whatever means is easier or doesn't have a preference.

    LG, on the other hand, negotiates. If LG is successful in fixing a problem, it's solved all around. The offender has been wronged as little as possible, if not at all, the wronged party is taken care of, and what reconciliation between the two can be made has been made. LG solutions build utopias, assuming the parties are reconcilable, CG and NG just make a good version of a normal society.

    LG's last resort is violence, because violence is inherently chaotic, but will do so to prevent more harm. In the end, the lawful or chaotic aspects of a good or evil character are secondary.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)22:07 No.1592557
    I think you're confusing Chaotic with short-sighted there. I won't say it's not more common in Chaotic people, but one be Chaotic and still plan things. After all, deposing a tyrant just for him to get his ass back on the throne after a month is hardly useful.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)22:20 No.1592655
    What I was saying is a chaotic character is more likely to handle it himself or with a group of his pals than he is to walk in and attempt to talk the dictator around like the LG character will do if he thinks there's a chance of ending it without a coup de etat.

    Both are still good actions, but one tries to preserve order while fixing the problem and to the other maintaining order is a non-issue. Sure the CG character will make sure an evil guy doesn't assume the throne immediately afterwards, but he won't involve himself much past that. An LG character tries to manage all repercussions and conduct things in an orderly manner, possibly stepping up as dictator pro-tem to make sure things settle before finding a replacement (see: George Washington)
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)22:45 No.1592820
    I'm sorry, Evilsatan, but I've already played that character. Twice.

    The first time was in Halo 2, as the Arbiter.

    The second time was as a Kobold Crusader. There is no race that needs an immortal, invincible hero more than they do.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)22:54 No.1592885
    >freed anarchy

    right after he and some friends finished the constitution, the bill of rights, and had various continental congresses... congrees?... congrii?...
    >> Dr. Baron von Evilsatan 04/23/08(Wed)23:00 No.1592939

    Except the Arbiters never made a single decision for themselves, preferring to follow blindly their leaders without question. That's not Lawful Good, that's Lawful Indoctrinated.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)23:04 No.1592962
    That's right! They're PALADINS! Besides, only the last one was a PC.
    >> computeraddict 04/23/08(Wed)23:06 No.1592978

    And HE actually started making his own decisions.
    >> Guardsman Gary !p24mrXpa8I 04/23/08(Wed)23:07 No.1592990
    He was just trying to get off the Prophet's railroad.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)23:13 No.1593030
    The Arbiter waited. The lights above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There was the demon in the base. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to the Prophets were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
    Arbiter was an elite for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the spaceships and he said to dad "I want to be on the ships daddy."
    Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY THE DEMON"
    There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the space station base of the Covenant he knew there was the demon.
    "This is Regret" the radio crackered. "You must fight the demon!"
    So the Arbiter gotted his palsma rifle and blew up the wall.
    "HE GOING TO KILL US" said the marines
    "I will shoot at him" said the demon and he fired the rocket missiles. Arbiter plasmaed at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
    "No! I must kill the demon" he shouted
    The radio said "No, Arbiter. You are the demon"
    And then Arbiter was a flood.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)23:21 No.1593084
    When I played my one Lawful Good charry, I made it so his one goal was to save the world... and only the world. It was his one goal, there was not a single life worth saving over the lives of billions.

    This caused some interesting happenings, because if I had to choose between saving a dying teammate clinging to my ankles and getting closer to stopping the doom of the world he would blow off his teammate with the rationale that s/he wasn't worth the time with the world falling apart. Lawful Good without being stick up the ass about it.
    >> d20modernfag 04/23/08(Wed)23:23 No.1593100
    LG villains are awesome.
    >> Anonymous 04/23/08(Wed)23:26 No.1593114
    I would class that as having a fucking log up his ass.
    >> Eidolon !!x4UZsNRzxWG 04/23/08(Wed)23:28 No.1593138

    Master Chief waited. The players bumper jumped and assassinated him out of the air. There were n00bs in foundry. He didn't see them on radar, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Bungie about BR spawns were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
    Master Chief was a apprentice grade 2 for fourteen games. When he was young he watched the mlg circuit and he said to walshy "I want to be on team final boss daddy."
    Walshy said "No! You will BE KILL BY N00Bs"
    There was a time when he believed him. Then as he played his first game he stopped. But now in storage warehouse of the UNSC he knew there were n00bs.
    "This is bungie" his headset crackered. "You must fight the n00bs!"
    So Chief gotted his assualt rifle and blew up the fusion coils.
    "HE GOING TO KILL US" said the n00bs
    "I will shoot at him" said the active camo n00b and he fired the rocket missiles. Chief meleed at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
    "No! I must kill the n00bs" he shouted
    The headset said "No, chief. You are the n00bss"
    And then chief went out and bought call of duty.
    >> computeraddict 04/23/08(Wed)23:29 No.1593139

    That would definitely be one of the tough things an LG would have to do. He would probably have the resolve to assuming his Wis/Will was strong enough, but b/c he's LG it would chew him up inside when he finished. Regret is a bitch.
    >> Anonymous 04/24/08(Thu)06:51 No.1595212
    Wait, so LG characters can't storm castles to save people and stop evil tyrants? But its so iconic...
    >> Anonymous 04/24/08(Thu)10:14 No.1595713
    The Church of the Silver Flame in Eberron make good villains. They overthrew their country when the monarch died, and inserted more peasants into the war. They are overzealous, and try to push their religion on neighboring countries. They are considered LG.
    >> Anonymous 04/24/08(Thu)11:33 No.1595958
    i dont even want to read this thread cause i dont feel like risking noticing that we still have trolls/asshats who say that d&d lawfull means following local laws aka being lawfag and not following personal code.
    >> Anonymous 04/24/08(Thu)11:43 No.1595984
    Nope. So long as lord evil necromancer egly mcnasty has a baby rapping permit, he can rape as many babies as he wants. And the paladin can only shake his LG fists in futile rage at the injustice.
    >> Anonymous 04/24/08(Thu)11:51 No.1596018
    First, whatever alignment you'll choose. You'r character WILL be a "Déjà vue à millions time".
    You're not going to invent something, nor beeing original with ANY of the available choices. Even worse, since all players like to be "differents", they all ends with the fucking same thing.
    In the end, the most traditional, stereotypical behavior is something very rare to find.

    I'd advise you not to play something overly complicated.
    If you like challenge, here's my proposition : play a Loyal Good dick. Like silver/golden age Superman.
    You know the teach a lesson plot that made 90% of the story. Don't heal 100% of people HP, ask for a trial when the group rogue go a little too roguish. Play pranks, like "yeah, it was just a goblin after all, but come on, if it truely has been a lich, you would have been toats!".
    Things like that. Of course, you'll have to save the day from time to time, and always take care that your action doesn't actually hurt more people than necessary. but, hey, you want challenge after all.
    >> Nyarly 04/24/08(Thu)11:58 No.1596042
    Why not just have a different standard of good and law from everyone else? As long as you conform to your societies law, or you own personal code, then you're lawful. As long as you conform to that social norm of good, you're good. Yes, I know relativism doesn't work in D&D due to douchey system, but if you don't do it too outrageously, like trying to say rapes okay by your culture, you should be able to pull it off and wind up your group at the same time.
    >> Anonymous 04/24/08(Thu)11:59 No.1596050

    The allies forced Hitler to kill himself, therefore they are more evil than the Nazis, who never did anything to Hitler.

    lol idiot
    >> Anonymous 04/24/08(Thu)12:00 No.1596055

    relativism is for retards and college kids who think themselves smart
    >> Anonymous 04/24/08(Thu)12:01 No.1596060
    everybody already play like that. It's fucking annoying. "lol i killed him in a terribly painfull fashion but I'm LG because It's my way of beeing LG lollolol I'm so cool now."
    I'v been in such a situation sooo many time it's not even funny.
    >> Nyarly 04/24/08(Thu)12:02 No.1596063

    Absolutism is for Republicans and fanatical extremists. Whats your point?
    >> Nyarly 04/24/08(Thu)12:05 No.1596074

    Read my post again (or at all) and you'll notice I already said not to do the whole "lolololitsLGbutnormallyevil" thing. Like I say, little things, nothing major, but litter them throughout like stumbling blocks and the less sensical the better. Things like people with blonde hair are second class citizens and can be bought and sold like cattle. They aren't mistreated, they just don't have the same rights as everyone else. It's because of an ancient law that no-one really remembers why it was made, but they still follow it.
    >> Anonymous 04/24/08(Thu)12:06 No.1596076
    the game setting is the game settings. wheter you like it or not, D&D settings is the typical cliché manichean world. Unless your DM allows some flexibility, you can't do much about that. It's about following the game rule.
    >> Anonymous 04/24/08(Thu)13:13 No.1596376

    Dangerously close to invoking the Law here. In any case, Hitler was dead before the Allies got there- capturing Hitler alive would have been the crown jewel of the war. Think Nurenberg Trials to epic level.

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