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    File :1205147445.jpg-(66 KB, 400x400, 1fc9276b273e9276bd1c24df82067612.jpg)
    66 KB Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)07:10 No.1310759  
    Why do people often say that in a straight-up duel between a 1st-level human commoner and a housecat (without the commoner abusing Craft checks to create infinite quarterstaves), the housecat has a better chance of winning? A housecat has a reach of 0 feet, so even if it wins initiative, it has to move into the commoner's square to attack. This provokes an AoO from the commoner, who can potentially one-shot the housecat if he hits with his quarterstaff.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:14 No.1310844
    Considering the commoner is flatfooted, the commoner would not get an AoO. With it's good hide and move silently modifiers and the cat is almost always going to ambush/charge the commoner on the surprise round, and with a it's +2 initiative it will get a full attack before the commoner can react more often than not.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:15 No.1310845
    >Considering the commoner is flatfooted, the commoner would not get an AoO.

    Where does it say that you can't make AoOs if you're flat-footed?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:19 No.1310849

    >A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:20 No.1310850
    I see. I couldn't find that in the AoO portion of the SRD.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:24 No.1310853
    This just shows that low powered combats are way more hilarious than high powered ones.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:27 No.1310855
    I dont understand it either
    The cats claw attacks may have a high attack bonus but they do only 1 damage
    So the cat would have to make a full attack to kill a commoner. It doesnt have pounce, so it i likely that the cat will get hit at least once. Even with a dagger the chance that the cat dies instantly is 50%
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:27 No.1310856
    Level 1 commoner vs. Epic level Ancient Chaos Dragon Favoured of Xom with 20 levels of Chaos Knight go. No Pun-puns or infinite quarterstaves allowed.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:36 No.1310866
    You only need to do three damage to a commoner to knock it out.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:42 No.1310870

    >>Favoured of Xom

    It would be hilarious if the commoner won. Therefor, the commoner will win.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:47 No.1310873
    The cat can still only make a single attack after moving into the commoner's square. The commoner just needs to get one hit in and it's over.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:48 No.1310875
    Yeah, you don't understand how surprise rounds work I see.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:49 No.1310876

    But then it's expected he will win, and thus no longer hilarious.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:56 No.1310885
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    Guys, it's still easy for the commoner to kick the cat's ass. All he needs is a Chaotic alignment and one feat: Cloak of the Obyrith from the Fiendish Codex I. That gives him damage reduction 1/lawful, making him immune to the attacks of housecats. Now he can proudly beat up a cat without fear of being killed. Granted though, a Chaotic-aligned commoner with an Abyssal Heritor feat isn't exactly your average commoner, but still, he's technically just a 1st-level commoner.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)08:56 No.1310887

    lol paradox.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)09:23 No.1310919
         File :1205155413.jpg-(210 KB, 650x1046, Chen Cat 4koma.jpg)
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    If you want a less effective but more mundane solution, I'd think that a 1st-level human commoner with Improved Initiative and Toughness (or Toughness x2) has a very good chance at beating a housecat in a HEAVEN OR HELL match.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)09:26 No.1310922
    This thread needs more optimized housecats.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:20 No.1311024
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    A 1st-level human commoner has two feat slots, which he can spend on Bind Vestige and Improved Bind Vestige from the Tome of Magic. This lets him bind Savnok with an effective binder level of 5th, granting him the Call Armor ability which gives him a free suit of +1 full plate armor which he can summon or dismiss on his body as a full-round action. This increases the commoner's AC by 9, but unfortunately, he takes a -5 armor check penalty which also gives him a -5 penalty on attack rolls due to nonproficiency. Still, it's nice to know that a commoner can get himself a shiny suit of +1 full plate armor with just a 2-feat investment.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:25 No.1311037
    Optimized level 1 human commoners makes me lawl.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:27 No.1311042
         File :1205159276.jpg-(123 KB, 700x500, Keine Mokou Akyu Humans.jpg)
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    Well, there's always the path to Pun-Pun and infinite quarterstaves/chickens as a 1st-level human commoner:

    Pun-Pun, Lawful Good 1st-level Human Commoner

    Flaws: Chicken-Infested, Delicious
    Traits: Absent-Minded, Specialized (Craft [weaponsmithing])
    Feats: Education, Mercantile Background, Skill Focus (Craft [weaponsmithing]), Skill Focus (Knowledge [the planes])
    Ability Scores: Strength 11, Dexterity 11, Constitution 11, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 10, Charisma 10
    Skills: Craft (weaponsmithing) 4 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 4 ranks

    Masterwork Artisan's Tools (Craft [weaponsmithing]) = 55 gp
    Masterwork Tool (Knowledge [the planes) = 50 gp
    Ring of Craft (weaponsmithing) +1 = 100 gp
    Ring of Knowledge (the planes) +1 = 100 gp
    Psionic Shard of Knowledge (the planes) + 3 = 90 gp
    395 gp - 25% = 296.25 gp (+300 gp starting wealth from Mercantile Background)

    Total Knowledge (the planes) Bonus:
    4 ranks
    + 1 (Absent-Minded)
    + 1 (Education)
    + 3 (Skill Focus)
    + 2 (Masterwork Tool)
    + 1 (Ring of Knowledge [the planes])
    + 3 (Psionic Shard)
    +15 with Take 10 (DC 25 Knowledge [the planes] check to find out how to call Pazuzu)

    Total Craft (weaponsmithing) Bonus:
    4 ranks
    + 1 (Specialized)
    + 3 (Skill Focus)
    + 2 (Masterwork Tool)
    + 1 (Ring of Craft [weaponsmithing])
    +11 (DC 12 Craft check to make a simple melee weapon, such as a club or quarterstaff)
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:36 No.1311058
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:36 No.1311059
    Moar Touhou catgirl pictures please.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:40 No.1311071
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:40 No.1311074
    ITT: commoners that are more broken then clerics
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:42 No.1311078
         File :1205160156.jpg-(105 KB, 842x612, Chen Cat Chopsticks Can.jpg)
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    If you're talking about the Savnok-binding commoner, then you should know that Bind Vestige has no prerequisites and Improved Bind Vestige only requires Bind Vestige, so it's perfectly legal for a human commoner to take those two feats at 1st-level.


    I suggest you head over to /jp/.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:44 No.1311082

    But what dose it do?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:53 No.1311107

    Trying way too hard. Exceedingly obvious.

    On a different subject, I played Deus Ex for the first time today.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)10:54 No.1311109
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    You can make a DC 25 Knowledge (the planes) check to call Pazuzu. He grants you a single Wish in exchange for turning your alignment to Neutral Good, and you use that Wish to get a Candle of Invocation. You use the candle to summon an efreeti, and you make the efreeti give you more Wishes, then you use those Wishes for more Candles of Invocation. So now you have a limitless supply of wishes. You use one of them to Polymorph Any Object yourself into a human yuan-ti tainted one, then you use a Candle of Invocation to Gate in a Sarrukh. Then you get it to use Manipulate Form...
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:01 No.1311132
    Why does that touhou character have traffic signs?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:02 No.1311137
    The most hilarious part me thinks, is just how fast a housecat could kill a commoner.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:06 No.1311148
    Fuck I'm going to re-install that now.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:07 No.1311152
    She fights using traffic signs in one of the games. (Immaterial and Missing Power)
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:10 No.1311157
    so the cat lady is the most dangerous person in the village?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:13 No.1311162
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    More precisely, her overpowered ability is the manipulation of boundaries (border of life and death, border of ground and sky, border of existence and non-existence, border of fantasy and reality, etc). Traffic signs represent borders and boundaries on the road, so they're more or less a parody on her ability. But let's not derail this thread too much, shall we?


    The stable boy could give the cat lady a run for her money, seeing how horses have much better stats than housecats.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:14 No.1311163
    I think the housecat needs to be min/maxed
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:14 No.1311164

    Wow Touhou is more retarded than I thought
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:15 No.1311167
    >I think the housecat needs to be min/maxed

    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:17 No.1311173
    Now I want to DM a game where PCs are Commoners and the monsters are all sorts of pets and farm animals.

    Perhaps a min/maxed housecat could be the BBEG.
    >> Masterwork Bastard !wl59mComes 03/10/08(Mon)11:18 No.1311175
    Awakened housecat. PCs will shit bricks.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:19 No.1311176
    Granted, she only summons traffic signs for ONE of her attacks.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:20 No.1311180

    Animal Farm: D&D edition?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:24 No.1311189
    to be fair it is technically a fan game
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:28 No.1311197
    Well, you can trade out Stealthy, which with the hefty racial bonus to those skills and dex bonus isn't going to be missed too much.
    Gimmie a bit.. have some amusing thoughts..
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:28 No.1311200

    Did someone say Animal Farm?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:28 No.1311201
    Fuck yeah. They won't stand a chance.

    Now to think of a plot that looks fairly innocent on the outside but turns out to be the evil plan of an Awakened Housecat...
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:38 No.1311234
    Reminds me of the Sudden Maximized/Empowered Mass Awakened Rabbit Mindbender BBEG I have laying around..
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:45 No.1311250
    I wanted to ask why you have a BBEG like that, but ,on second thought, I'd rather not know.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:51 No.1311273
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    By using 15-point buy (roughly the same as having three 10s and three 11s), we can give a creature the following base ability scores: 9 Strength, 12 Dexterity, 8 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 8 Wisdom, 15 Charisma. A housecat has the following racial ability score modifiers: -8 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +0 Constitution, -8 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma. Thus, a housecat with the 15-point buy array given above would have the following ability scores: 1 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 8 Constitution, 2 Intelligence, 10 Wisdom, 11 Charisma.

    If we give him two flaws (Inattentive and Murky-Eyed) and take away Stealthy, he has three feat slots to spend. What do we spend them on?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:52 No.1311275
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    From page 67 of the Expanded Psionics Handbook:
    >Your mind wakes to a previously unrealized talent for psionics.
    >Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken at 1st level.
    >Benefit: Your latent power of psionics flares to life, conferring upon you the designation of a psionic character. As a psionic character, you gain a reserve of 2 power points, and you can take psionic feats, metapsionic feats, and psionic item creation feats. If you have or take a class that grants power points, the power points gained from Hidden Talent are added to your total power point reserve.
    >When you take this feat, choose one 1st-level power from any psionic class list. You know this power (it becomes one of your powers known). You can manifest this power with the power points provided by this feat if you have a Charisma score of 11 or higher. If you have no psionic class levels, you are considered a 1st-level manifester when manifesting this power. If you have psionic class levels, you can manifest the power at the highest manifester level you have attained. (This is not a manifester level, and it does not add to any manifester levels gained by taking psionic classes.) If you have no psionic class levels, use Charisma to determine how powerful a power you can manifest and how hard those powers are to resist.
    >Note: This is an expanded version of the Wild Talent feat, intended for use in high-psionics campaigns.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:53 No.1311281
         File :1205164421.jpg-(49 KB, 310x474, Chen Ran Drawing.jpg)
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    >You gain additional power points to supplement those you already had.
    >Prerequisite: Having a power point reserve.
    >Benefit: When you take this feat for the first time, you gain 2 power points.
    >Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you take the feat after the first time, the number of power points you gain increases by 1.

    A housecat with two flaws, Hidden Talent, and Psionic Talent x2 knows a single 1st-level psionic power and has a power point reserve of 7 points. Since the housecat has 11 Charisma, he can actually manifest that 1st-level psionic power. Enjoy your housecat that can manifest a 1st-level psionic power 7 times per day without even having any levels in psion.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:56 No.1311286
    You amaze me with your knowledge of D&D and frighten me with your apparent touhou addiction.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)11:58 No.1311293
    why can't I have people like you to game with?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:03 No.1311310
    You can if Touhoufag goes on IRC.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:07 No.1311321
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    Just to give you an idea of what you can do with this, consider that the housecat can select Crystal Shard as its 1st-level psionic power. So you could theoreticaly have a horde of CR 1/4 housecats that bombard the enemy with Crystal Shards that each do 1d6 piercing damage on a successful ranged touch attack with no save and no power/spell resistance. Just in case you're worried about enemies with damage reduction (since instantaneous Metacreativity powers are subject to DR ever since Complete Psionic), you could also have a secondary horde of psionic housecats that can manifest Energy Ray, each ray potentially dealing 1d6-1 sonic damage upon a successful ranged touch attack with no save (but power/spell resistance still applies).


    Welcome to /tg/.


    You wouldn't like me as a player. I tend to min-max things to hell and back.


    You can seek me out in #DungeonOOC, but I'm never really up for a game.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:16 No.1311351
    Where are the racial ability adjustments from? Savage Species?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:18 No.1311355
    Funny. With me it's the other way around.

    >I tend to min-max things to hell and back.
    I'm curious, do you like any other aspect? High adventure, personal drama, mystery, intrigue? Or only min-max?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:19 No.1311359
    upload the full yukari pic plz?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:28 No.1311393
         File :1205166528.jpg-(95 KB, 534x800, Yukari Signs.jpg)
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    >While a monsters statistics give the ability scores for a typical creature of a certain kind, any “monster” creature that becomes an adventurer is definitely not typical. Therefore, when creating a PC from a creature, check to see if the creature’s entry has any ability scores of 10 or higher. If so, for each score, subtract 10 (if the score is even) or 11 (if the score is odd) to get the creature’s modifier for that ability based on its race or kind. Generate the character’s ability scores as normal, then add the racial ability modifiers to get their ability scores.

    Of course, when dealing with animals that have rolled or point-buyed ability score arrays, keep in mind that an animal can never have 3 or higher Intelligence (because then it would be a magical beast), so it's useless to try to raise an animal's Intelligence score when using point-buy.


    I used to play online D&D games from late 2003 to early 2007 over IRC and Fantasy Grounds, maybe playing a single game once every four months. I never really got into RP-heavy games though, and I highly preferred light-hearted games. That's not to say that it was all hack-and-slash though, it's just that it was much more laid-back than dramatic. I never played any broken builds, since I just stuck to builds that were powerful and well-optimized yet not game-breaking (Swift Hunter, Malconvoker, etc). I haven't played a single game ever since I got into /tg/ at around June 2007 though.


    As you wish.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:34 No.1311408
    Usually I hear it as level 1 commoner vs. Dire housecat...
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:42 No.1311432

    what if it's a dire commoner?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:43 No.1311435
    With chicken infested and delicious?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:44 No.1311437
    wouldn't the housecat then just eat him?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:45 No.1311440

    infested by... Dire Chickens?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:46 No.1311441
    then someone yells out OGRE OGRE and a party of adventurers kills loots, and pets the cat.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:47 No.1311453
    *zoom to cat*

    just as planned
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:48 No.1311456
    also I feel the int restrictions on animals are too restricting. Yes, generally the animal will not have sentience. but, there are proven cases where animals show cognitive abilities far beyond what a simple "beast" as we humans would put it, would have.

    tldr: fuck this, I want to play a fucking dog. I don't care if I get -8 int and can't talk. that's what stat point allocation is for.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:49 No.1311462
    What about an ordinary commoner, but wearing DIRE PANTS.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:51 No.1311465
    No, no, no.

    An ordinary commoner with ordinary pants... but he's DIRE-WEARING them!
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)12:54 No.1311472

    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)13:07 No.1311503
    /r/ pdf of commoner flaws.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)13:07 No.1311504
    is there any way we can min/max the cat to get some sort fo shapshifting ability, and shapshift it into a human commoner?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)13:24 No.1311537
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    Damn it, I forgot to mention my nick in #DungeonOOC @ irc.rizon.net. My nick there is "Adslahnit", if ever you need to contact me through IRC.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)13:32 No.1311558
    Man D&D is awful. How do you guys play this shit without wanting to tear your own eyes out?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)13:33 No.1311561

    >Hey guys, I'm an unsubtle troll, pay attention to me.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)13:34 No.1311565
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    D&D was not made for realism, and D&D was not made to simulate super-low-level fights either. So what if a housecat has a good chance at beating a 1st-level human commoner?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)13:47 No.1311586
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    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)13:47 No.1311587
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    The same reason McDonalds has billions served. People love bandwagons and aren't always picky.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)13:59 No.1311621
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    you want to get real combat rules?
    heres a page for tiny animals from the rolemaster arms law
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)14:02 No.1311626
    Mimmics must be here to harrass the Dire House Cat...
    >> Weeaboo Fightan Kitties: Book of Nine Lives Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)14:05 No.1311627
    After careful consideration, the funniest useful thing we could swap Stealthy out for is Martial Study. If applying Flaw cheese, expand with Martial Stance and/or more Study.
    That's right, Weeaboo Fightan Housecats.
    Most tactics still revolve around getting the drop on the Commoner with their naturally good Hide/Sneak for the highest chance of success.
    Given that there are nine 'schools' and the nine lives cats are said to have, there shall be one of each.
    Desert Wind Cat immolates the commoner with Death Mark. Even a successful save should still prove fatal against Desert Wind Cat's firey wrath!

    Devoted Spirit Cat smashes the foolish commoner with a mighty Foehammer strike. Catkind is the superior.

    Diamond Mind Cat knows your weakness. Its Insightful Strike is capable of dropping the commoner beyond -10 in a single blow (with a good roll).

    Iron Heart Cat's Wall of Blades holds off the commoner's feeble attack if it survives the first brush with its mighty claws and teeth.

    Setting Sun Cat breaks the foe with Strike of the Broken Shield, none shall stand against him!

    Shadow Hand Cat was never there and there were no witnesses left. Ask too many questions and you may encounter a Shadow Garrote of your own.

    Stone Dragon Cat's Irresistible Mountain Strike batters a commoner into a fatal stupor.

    Tiger Claw Cat leaps high into the air and into the commoner's pudgy face with a furious Claw at the Moon strike. Sure Rabid Wolf Strike Might be more effective, but what cat with its spit want to use a move named for a 'dog'..

    White Raven Cat needs not this shameful surprise attack! It yowls mightily and bears down on its worthy foe in a Battle Leader's Charge to end the commoner threat.

    This is.. amusingly silly when you remember that these are still normal, unawakened, base stat, rules-legal housecats.
    I have an urge to describe them as individuals now, God help me.
    Reminds me of Master Splinter in his youth.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)14:10 No.1311637
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    You have one major flaw in your plan: you need an initiator level of 1st to take even a 1st-level maneuver with Martial Study or a 1st-level stance with Martial Stance. This is why a 1st-level fighter can't take Martial Study, because each non-martial adept HD gives you only 1/2 an initiator level.

    tl;dr = Housecats can't take Martial Study or Martial Stance because they have an initiator level of 0. Sorry, try again.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)14:15 No.1311651
    Muah-ha. The psi-cats are also a fun angle.

    If applying point buy to the kitties, we could get the Con up to 13 and bring in Incarnum Cats as well.

    And like I said, that's just base line, apply flaws and they can be particularly formidable.
    >> Masterwork Bastard !wl59mComes 03/10/08(Mon)14:20 No.1311663

    Awaken the bastard and then do it.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)14:24 No.1311673
    Fortunately, Initiator Level has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)14:26 No.1311678
    Sure it does, the marital study feat says you have to meet all requirements, one of them being the ilevel.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)14:28 No.1311682
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    Read the description of Martial Study and Martial Stance again. You still need to meet the prerequisites for the maneuver or stance, and initiator level is always a prerequisite for learning a maneuver or stance.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)14:33 No.1311691
    That reminds me mang. So I know that if you were like fighter 10/warblade 1 you can still only get a level 1 stance because the warblade's stance section specifically says level 1. if you took the martial stance feat though you could then totally take any 'ol stance that you meet the requirements to right?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)14:51 No.1311744
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    >If applying point buy to the kitties, we could get the Con up to 13 and bring in Incarnum Cats as well.

    Good idea, but keep in mind that you need a character level of 1st to be able to invest essentia in a soulmeld or essentia receptacle, and housecats have a character level of 1/4th, so a regular housecat will never be able to invest essentia. A housecat with two flaws can have three Shape Soulmeld feats, which can be spent on Ankheg Breastplate, Airstep Sandals, and Dissolving Spittle. So the housecat will be a flying armored housecat that can spit acid from its mouth at will. Granted, the armor gives only a +2 armor bonus, the cat can fly only 10 feet (with good maneuverability) as a move action, and the spit only does 1d6 acid damage upon a successful ranged touch attack... but still, it's the concept that counts.

    However, I'm not sure if you can have more than one soulmeld shaped at a time if you have three Shape Soulmeld feats. Page 50 of Magic of Incarnum simply says that a meldshaper's level limits the number of soulmelds he can have shaped at any given time, but does not mention the Shape Soulmeld feat.


    As long as you meet the prerequisites for the stance and you have a maneuver from the discipline that you're trying to get a stance from, then yes.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)14:59 No.1311765
    Hrm. You might be correct. Though some confusion when it says 'any you meet prereqs for' and they have individual prereq entries is somewhat understandable.

    Though in my search for errata on that matter did turn up Customer Support and the Sage supporting a Minimum of 1. And all the book's NPCs rounding up.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:11 No.1311793
    other soulmelds to look into:
    soulspark familiar
    mantle of flame
    wormtail belt
    blink shirt
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:12 No.1311796
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    WotC's CustServ is notorious for giving conflicting responses (seriously, if you email them several times asking the exact same question, you'll most likely get mutually-exclusive answers), and I can't find anything in the official FAQ that mentions a minimum initiator level of 1st. The only sample NPC in the Tome of Battle that has odd-numbered non-martial adept levels is the sample Ruby Knight Vindicator, a Crusader 4/Cleric 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 3, and he has an initiator level of 7th. Thus, initiator level is always rounded down.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:13 No.1311798
    Oh god, I wanna see a build incorporating the Corpse flaw.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:17 No.1311809
    well from what I can tell they always round down nearly every number in the game. That being said, I think it'd make sense for a minimum of one. Mind you, I have nothing to back this up with but I think most dms would allow it. Then again theoretical builds like this don't care about such things and deal with RAW only.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:21 No.1311826
    how about adding the undead subtype?

    either that or have a character who wields the commoner as a weapon
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:23 No.1311835
    Better yet, work it into Maid RPG. (Bonus points to any Nijiura fags who get that reference.)
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:25 No.1311846
    Character Level is a minimum of 1 for such things, which is not the same as Effective Character Level or Challenge Rating. If it worked the way you suggest they couldn't have the 1st level feat and skill point we're working with.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:26 No.1311851
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    >Then again theoretical builds like this don't care about such things and deal with RAW only.

    True enough. We're already making flying armored housecats that can spit acid under completely RAW methods, and it's just funnier when you know that it's perfectly legal. Once you step outside the rules, it just kinda loses its thunder.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:26 No.1311854
    Chracter level might be 1st but ilevel is 1/2.
    >> Masterwork Bastard !wl59mComes 03/10/08(Mon)15:35 No.1311895

    Unless it has a level in Warblade! DUN-DUN-DUUUN!!
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:36 No.1311901
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    You raise a good point, and I can see it working that way. So if character level is always at least 1st, then the incarnum housecat should have two flaws, Azure Toughness, Shape Soulmeld (Dissolving Spittle), and Shape Soulmeld (Soulspark Familiar). It should invest its 1 essentia in Dissolving Spittle to boost the acid damage to 2d6, and the Soulspark Familiar should prove to be a useful ally.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:39 No.1311920
    one of the requirements of share soulmeld is the following: "share spells class feature"
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:40 No.1311926
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    SHAPE Soulmeld, not Share Soulmeld.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:42 No.1311932
    shit, I can't read. MAH BAD.
    I was thinking of getting share soulmeld myself and realized I coudln't and thought maybe you thought the same thing.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:43 No.1311933
    You could make it a necropolitan, but giving it a +1 CR misses the point of optimizing a regular housecat.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)15:50 No.1311957
    Saw a few posts referencing it, have trouble locating an actual quote for them though.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)16:09 No.1312023
    At this point I'm wondering about the poor town with too many psi-cats and incarnum cats.. heh.
    Then I remembered 'LASER CATS'. XD
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)16:14 No.1312039
    Wait, a cat with a familiar?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)16:14 No.1312040
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    Hey, don't forget that a 1st-level human commoner with two flaws can take Azure Toughness, Improved Initiative, Shape Soulmeld (Dissolving Spittle), and Shape Soulmeld (Soulspark Familiar). That should put him on par with the incarnum housecats. The psionic housecats are nowhere as good as the incarnum housecats, by the way, because why use Crystal Shard or Energy Ray 7 times per day when you can use Dissolving Spittle at will instead?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)16:19 No.1312053
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)16:21 No.1312061
    Indeed, they're even pictured together.
    Natural allies.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)17:04 No.1312259
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    Because the CharOp board also needs to get hold of the idea: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15306842

    >A housecat has the following ability score modifiers: -8 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +0 Constitution, -8 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma. We can give a housecat the nonelite array without increasing its CR, and we'll assign 11 Strength, 12 Dexterity, 13 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 9 Wisdom, and 8 Charisma. Thus, a housecat with the nonelite array distribution as given above would have the following ability scores: 3 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 13 Constitution, 2 intelligence, 11 Wisdom, 4 Charisma.

    >Using Unearthed Arcana's flaw system, we can give the housecat the Meager Fortitude and Weak-Willed flaws so that it gets two free bonus feats. With three feat slots to spend, we can make the housecat take Shape Soulmeld (Airstep Sandals), Shape Soulmeld (Dissolving Spittle), and Shape Soulmeld (Soulspark Familiar). This gives it a fly speed of 10 feet with good maneuverability, a spit attack which deals 1d6 acid damage upon a successful ranged touch attack with a range of 60 feet as a standard action at will, and a useful familiar which is also a formidable combatant when compared to the housecat.

    >So yeah, it's a min-maxed flying housecat that can spit acid and has its own pseudo-familiar. And it's still technically a CR 1/4 housecat. Make of it what you will.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)17:46 No.1312494
    In that case, the commoner wins because he's more likely to win initiative and land a Dissolving Spittle.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)19:06 No.1312829
    I didn't mean apply it to the CAT. Or anything in specific, for that matter.
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)19:24 No.1312899
    So how bad can we make a commoner/housecat?

    And then in a fight ebtween the two, who wins?
    >> Anonymous 03/10/08(Mon)19:49 No.1313075
    I love you all. So much. My next character is going to be a Crazy Old Cat Guy...and a wizard. FLY, MY PRETTIES!
    >> Anonymous 03/11/08(Tue)00:19 No.1314373
    Like we said, we could set up a fight between a housecat with two flaws, Shape Soulmeld (Airstep Sandals), Shape Soulmeld (Dissolving Spittle), and Shape Soulmeld (Soulspark Familiar) and a 1st-level human commoner with two flaws, Improved Initiative, Shape Soulmeld (Airstep Sandals), Shape Soulmeld (Dissolving Spittle), and Shape Soulmeld (Soulspark Familiar). It would be evenly matched, I think.

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